From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1001 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74153 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 09:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2003 09:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.124) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 09:49:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:49:04 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:49:04 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ido] tro multa sufixi Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:49:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2003 09:49:04.0815 (UTC) FILETIME=[C56B03F0:01C37780] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Segun me Ido ne havas tro multa sufixi, nam fakte singla sufixo havas aparta, preciza senco ed omna es bezonata. La problemo es ke idisti tendencas uzar tro multa sufixi, ube li ne es necesa. Exemple, -ad havas preciza senco (repete, durate), ma multa idisti uzas ol kande simpla -o suficus. Anke la sufixi -ig ed -if es ofte nenecese o nejuste uzata. La questiono es, quale ni povas plu efikive docar la korekt uzo di ca sufixi? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1002 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36725 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2003 09:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2003 09:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.61) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2003 09:53:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:53:16 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:53:16 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [linguo] A la kandidati Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:53:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2003 09:53:16.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B6B6FC0:01C37781] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc John, The language is not French but Ido. This list is for the discussion of linguistic aspects of the Ido language. Is it possible you have wandered onto the wrong list? If so, would you like me to unsubscribe you? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin >From: JOHN BASSEY >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [linguo] A la kandidati >Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:59:14 -0700 (PDT) > > >Hi, > >Thanks for your message sent to me on the 8th of sept. 2003. I was happy to >read from you though I never understood any of what you wrote as I am not a >french student nor teacher. I would appreciate you asend the same mail >(intepreted) in English so I'll understand and know what's to be done about >it.Thanks. > >John. _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1003 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69473 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2003 04:40:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2003 04:40:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2003 04:40:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2003 04:40:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:40:38 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: kemiala elementi Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3610 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 LA KEMIALA ELEMENTI EN IDO Prof. Dro. Oswald agnoskis ke l'avantajo di internaciona linguo kom Ido esis la facila dis-semado di ciencala deskovro, informo ed instrukto tra la mondo. Il facis tabelo di kemiala elementi en Ido., ma nun plura nova elementi trovesas inkluzante la grupo di artificala elementi (pos nombro 92). Tre recente, la maxim nova, nombro 110, recevas la nomo di Darmstatio Ds. 1. La plu frua elementi havas Greka o Latina nomi quin transvivas en la simboli: aurum Au (oro), cuprum Cu (kupro), hydrargyrum Hg (merkurio), stibium Sb (antimonio). Fortunoze, Ido ofte uzas la historiala vorto e simbolo, p.e. arjento Ag, fero Fe. kalio K, natrio Na, stano Sn, wolframo W. 2. Pro Ido espelado, certena nomi chanjis de C a K quankam la simbolo retenas la C, p.e. karbo C; kalcio Ca; kadmio Cd; kupro Cu, kloro Cl; kobalto Co. 3. Quankam angla, franca e germana uzas la finalo "-ium" por metali, evidente Ido uzas la finalo "-io" quale en hispana e itala. Poka elementi ne povas uzar ta finalo, do Ra = radiumo ne radio, e boriumo ne borio (boreo = norda vento). 5. Plura metali ne havas la finalo quale A: -ium, exemple: Mn, Fe, Co, Ni, Cu, Zn, Mo, Ag, Sn, Sb, Ta, W, Pt, Au, Hg, Pb, Bi, do en Ido la finalo esas "o". Tamen por la sequanta metali, me sugestas Magnezio, Vanadio, Yitrio, Rutenio, Telurio, Uranio, Kromio, Titanio, Selenio ( finalo per "io"). 6. Anke me sugestas borono (B),. quale argono, kriptono. xenono, radono, (nemetali) 7. La nomi di elementi esas de la dicionarii di Dyer, Pesch, Esperanto e la Lexiki di Nova Vorti (1988, 2001), e mea sugesti por regulozeso. TABELO DI KEMIALA ELEMENTI. 1. Hidrogeno H 56. Bario Ba 2. Helio He 57. Lantano La 3. Litio Li 58. Cerio Ce 4. Berilio Be 59. Prazeodimio Pr 5. Borono B 60. Neodimio Nd 6. Karbo C 61. Prometio Pm 7. Nitro N 62. Samario Sm 8. Oxigeno 63. Europio Eu 9. Fluoro F 64. Gadolino Gd 10. Neono Ne 65. Terbio Tb 11. Natrio Na 66. Disprozio Dy 12. Magnezio Mg 67. Holmio Ho 13. Aluminio Al 68. Erbio Er 14. Siliko Si 69. Tulio Tm 15. Fosfo P 70. Yiterbio Yb !6. Sulfo S 71. Lutecio Lu 17. Kloro Cl 72 Hafnio Hf 18. Argono Ar 73 Tantalo Ta 19. Kalio K 74 Wolframo W 20. Kalcio Ca 75 Renio Re 21. Skandio Sc 76 Osmio Os 22.Titanio Ti 77 Iridio Ir 23. Vanadio V 78 Platino Pt 24. Kromio Cr 79. Oro Au 25. Mangano Mn 80. Merkurio Hg 26. Fero Fe 81. Talio Tl 27. Kobalto Co 82. Plombo Pb 28. Nikelo Ni 83. Bismuto Bi 29. Kupro Cu 84. Polonio Po 30. Zinko Zn 85. Astatino At 31. Galio Ga 86. Radono Rn 32. Germanio Ge 87. Francio Fr 33. Arseno As 88. Radiumo Ra 34. Selenio Se 89. Aktinio Ac 35. Bromo Br 90.Torio Th 36. Kriptono Kr 91. Protaktinio Pa 37. Rubidio Rb 92. Uranio U 38. Stroncio Sr 93. Neptunio Np 39. Yitrio Y 94. Plutonio Pu 40. Zirkonio Zr 95. Americio Am 41. Niobio Nb 96. Kuriumo Cm 42. Molibdeno Mo 97. Berkelio Bk 43. Teknecio Tc 98. Kalifornio Cf 44. Rutenio Ru 99. Einsteinio Es 45. Rodio Rh 100. Fermio Fm 46. Paladio Pd 101. Mendelevio Md 47. Arjento Ag 102. Nobelio No 48. Kadmio Cd 103. Laurencio Lr 49. Indio In 104. Ruterfordio Rf 50. Stano Sn 105. Dubnio Db 51. Antimonio Sb 106. Seborgio Sg 52. Telurio Te 107. Boriumo Bh 53. Iodo I 108. Hasio Hs 54. Xenono Xe 109. Meitnerio Mt 55. Cesio Cs 110. Darmstatio Bs From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1004 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14939 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 15:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2003 15:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.33) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 15:51:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:51:20 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:51:20 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [ido] La vorto "kande" Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:51:20 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2003 15:51:20.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[86FDC320:01C386A1] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara David Notez ke la parolata formo di franca 'quand' es [ka~]. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin >From: "David Mann" >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido] La vorto "kande" >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:31:18 -0000 > >Kar Amiki, > Ka ula savas pro quo la vorto "kande" ne esas "*quande"? > >Italiana: quando >Portugalana: quando >Franca: quand >Hispana: cuando > >Ni havas la vorti "qua", "quo", "quale", e "quanto". Pro quo >ne "*quande"? _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1005 Return-Path: X-Sender: CounterRev@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54464 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2003 16:33:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2003 16:33:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2003 16:32:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.134] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2003 16:32:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:32:58 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: La Forumi Idala Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1789 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "David Mann" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=148040447 X-Yahoo-Profile: idisto Kar Amiki, Me amus anuncar l'existo di La Forumi Idala, nova tereno retala por Idisti, quo uzas phpBB. Me esas l'administrero e la proprietero dil forumi e me skribas por invitar omna samideani venar por vidar la tereno. Ni havas kelka forumi en Ido, forumo en l'angla, e ni apertos la forumi en altra lingui nacionala kande ni havos modereri por ita forumi. On ja povas uzar dek e du lingui por lektar la texti administriva, do omnu povas komprendar la tereno! Ni situesas che http://www.davidmann.us/idoforums Sro. James Chandler questionis me, quale mea forumi diferus a la listi existanta. Me amus diskutar la diferanti hike: 1. La forumi esas plu bone desegnita kam la postolisti pro ke la forumi uzas phpBB. Singla grupo Idistala povas havar sua propra forumo. Singla temo povas havar sua propra artiklo. Singla membro povas havar sua propra informi, imajo, posto-buxo, e permisi. L'administero e la modereri povas facar o efacar secioni, grupi, e funcioni kande li bezonas. E pro ke la forumi esas un sistemo, on povas aplikar nur unfoye por partoprenar ye multa forumi. 2. La forumi havas funcioni quin la postolisti ne havas: mesaji privata, imaji personala, elekti pri temi. 3. On povas lektar la texti administriva en tre multa lingui nacionala. E ni povas adicionar multa lingui kande ulu bezonas li. 4. La forumi ne havas averti komercala. Ni uzas nia propra tereno retala. Voluntez memorar, me ne volas remplasar la postolisti; Idisti povas uzar amba. Ma, me ne volas ke, ulu ne vizitez la forumi nur pro ke la postolisti ja existas. Me vere pensas ke, Idisti amos la tereno. Voluntez dicar la samideani pri La Forumi Idala! Danko pro via tempo e via atenco. Amikale, David Mann Administrero di La Forumi Idala http://www.davidmann.us/idoforums From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1006 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98117 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 08:25:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2003 08:25:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.101) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 08:25:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Sep 2003 08:25:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:25:32 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: La voyo dil vorti Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 827 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Me dezirus savar qua voyo sequas nova vorti de sua propozo til sua acepto o refuzo. Tempope diskutesas en Linguolisto plura nova vorti, ma kande la diskuto finas, me nulatempe savas ka la vorti esis aprobata. Exemple, ka aprobesis la sufixo -or, e konseque la vorto *komputoro? Kad existas nova vorto por la angla "news"? Kad existas ula listo de vorti oficaligita recente? E takaze, ube? Me tote ne deziras kritikar la ago di nulu, precipue olta di nia sekretario pri aferi linguala. Me bone koncias ke lua laboro esas grandega e importantega, e me mem propozis modifikuri (nerespondizita) por igar ca laboro min fatiganta, kande demandesis taspeca propozi. Me nur deziras savar ube me povas lernar la maxim nova vorti quin inkluzas nia linguo, por uzor li segunnecese. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1007 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2790 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2003 09:18:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2003 09:18:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2003 09:18:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:18:18 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:18:18 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [linguo] La voyo dil vorti Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:18:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2003 09:18:18.0964 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9778140:01C38733] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara sro Rodi, La vorto *komputoro ne dependas ye sufixo -or. Ni povas adoptar nova radiko komputor-, se verbo ne es necesa. Segun mea savo, la Linguala Sekretario (RC) submisas propozita nova vorti a la DK di ULI, e la DK fine decidas, qua vorti es adoptenda. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1008 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32790 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2003 03:17:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2003 03:17:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2003 03:17:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2003 03:17:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:17:18 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: re la voyo dil vorti Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1019 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara samideano Rodi, James Chandler es justa, "-oro" ne es oficala sufixo. = Tamen, diversa vorti en Ido havas ta finalo: generatoro, alternatoro, karb= uratoro, procesoro edc. Tala vorti kustume havas teknologiala senco e me op= inionas ke hodie, la finalo "-oro" es utila por moderna *komputorala apara= ti, sive quale adjuntaji o la direkto di altra mashino. En angla tala vort= i ofte havas finalo di "-er" quan ja on uzas en Ido (-er =3D amatoro qua= =85.o, persono qua=85.). Do ni povas havar *imprimoro, vort-procesoro, *voy= oro (A: router), *skanoro, e mem *komputoro ipsa. Ni bezonos verbo *komput= ar o *komputorar. La ancienatra "-ilo" es probable plu apta por manu-implem= enti, quale segilo, borilo, tranchilo o glatilo. Hodie, implementi ofte ha= vas elektronikala o *komputorala direkto e forsan finalo di "-oro"es plu a= pta: *bororo, *tornoro e *weldoro. Me prizas la sugesto di Hans Stuifberge= n ke la kontenajo di jurnalo edc. es *novumi, (novaji =3D nova kozi, senco= tro streta). Kordiale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1009 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79244 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2003 05:29:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Oct 2003 05:29:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Oct 2003 05:29:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.121] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Oct 2003 05:29:09 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 05:29:08 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: La voyo dil vorti Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 816 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sri. Chandler e Stevenson, Me dankas vi pro via klara respondi, e me audacas riquestionar pri ulo quan me ankore multe deziras savar. Ka la vorti nova qui esas fine adoptita da la DK, segun vi explikis a me, esas ulaloke publikigita por omna Idisto? Mea insisteso konsequas de diskuti qui aparas en diferanta forumi, ube questionesas pri vorti recente diskutita. Do, me deziras savar ube me devas konsultar por saveskar pri l'oficala stando di tala vorti. Quale me povos exemple savar ka la vorto novumo* fine aceptesos? Itere me tre deziras atencigar ke me ne intencas pozar irgaspeca presado sur la homi qui multe laboras por nia linguo. Me nur deziras posedar tanta elementi pri Ido kam me povas, kaze ke on itere questionos me. Ed anke, kompreneble, por mea uzo. Vin dankas, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1010 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 63050 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 20:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2003 20:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr2.sis.it) (217.72.32.22) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 20:09:03 -0000 Received: from nardinic [217.72.33.87] with smtp by fr2.sis.it with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #3 #3) id m1A6Hzi-002fxlC; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:08:54 -0100 (GMT+1) Message-ID: <000501c38b80$5cf5e740$572148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Subject: Candidatus Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 22:36:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Carlo Nardini" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus "Kandidato" kun derivo "kandidateso" es vorto tre internaciona, kun preske identa espelo en omna lingui. A: candidate, candidature, candidacy F: candidat, candidature G: Kandidat, Kandidatur H: candidato, candidatura I: candidato, candidatura R: kandidat, kandidatura L: candidatus Gr: ypopsefios Hungariana: jel�lt, kandid�tus Nederlandana: kandidaat Polona: kandydat Portugalana: candidato, candidatura Rumaniana: candidat, candidatura Sueda: kandidat, kandidatur "Yiddish": kandidat ... Quale forsan omnu savas, +originis omna olin Latina "candidatus", viro blanka-vesta, de "candidus", bril-blanka. La nomizo debesis a la fakto ke, en Roma antiqua, kandidati por publika ofici kustumis gerar* (1) brilanta blanka togo. Me konjektas ke "kandidato" povus esar kandidata por qualifikeso kom un ek la maxim internaciona ordinara vorti (t.e. exkluzante la vorti plu o min ciencala e teknikala: matematiko, filozofio, atomo, telefono, algebro...). Kad ulu konocas altra vorti mem plu chancoza, kom kandidata por to? La fakto ke "kandidato" povus esar kandidata es nova kazo di su-referanteso di vorti (2). Me ja parolis mi-jokante pri su-referanteso dil vorti, che Linguolisto, en mea mesajo "Apendico a barilo". Hike me ri-skribos ta mesajo, kom okaziono por adjuntar interesiva anekdoto. ========== ========== ### Riskribo dil mesajo "apendico a barilo" (3 Februaro 2001). Por ti, qui prizas l' abstraktaji, me mesajigas apendico a "barilo". Me konsideras Idala "barilo" kom vorto su-referanta. Quon intencas me per to? Ni videz. "Kavalo" ne es su-referanta, pro ke la vorto "kavalo" ne es ul kavalo. "Substantivo" es su-referanta, pro ke la vorto "substantivo" es ipse substantivo. Nu, segun me "barilo" es su-referanta, pro ke, pro sua des-internacioneso, esas ipse barilo a la kompreno. La sempra frazo "Ido eliminas la barili linguala" sonas a me kom kelkete paradoxatra, pro ke en la frazo ipse trovesas, irge quante mikra, ul barilo a la kompreno, precize ta des-internaciona e mis-duktanta vorto "barilo". Incidente, me parolas pro personala experienco, lor mea unesma +aprocho a Ido. (Ka de to venas Freudale mea antipatio a la sufixo -ilo?). Por ti, quin amuzas filozofio, su-referanteso memorigas da me la logikala paradoxo da Bertrand Russell, nome la paradoxo dil "klaso di omna klasi, qui ne es elementi di su ipsa". Por komprenar pri quo traktesas, yen ula exempli explikiva: la klaso dil ensembli es ipse ensemblo... e pro to ol es elemento di su ipsa; la klaso dil abstraktaji es ipse abstraktajo... e pro to ol es elemento di su ipsa; la klaso dil homi ne es homo... e pro to ol ne es elemento di su ipsa; la klaso dil arbori ne es arboro... e pro to ol ne es elemento di su ipsa... Nu, la questiono esas, ka la "klaso di omna klasi, qui ne es elementi di su ipsa" es elemento di su ipsa, o ne. La respondo es paradoxa; nam - se ta klaso es elemento di su ipsa, lore... ol ne es elemento di su ipsa. - se ol ne es elemento di su ipsa, lore... ol es elemento di su ipsa. Gracioza kap-ruptado, ka ne? Prototipo dil paradoxi da su-referanteso es la famoza paradoxo dil "mentianto", da Epimenide (plura yarcenti a.K.). Supoze ulu asertas: "to, quon me es dicanta, es ne-verajo". Ka lu es dicanta verajo o ne-verajo? Desfacila decidar; nam - se lu es dicanta verajo, lore...lu es dicanta ne-verajo; - se lu es dicanta ne-verajo, lore...lu es dicanta verajo. Existas multa konati* (L conatus, A attempt) solvar tala trublanta paradoxi logikala. La maxim bona solvo semblas esar, ne su desquietigar prie. Tale agas omni, ecepte la filozofi. ========== ========== ### Anekdoto relatanta la paradoxo da Russell (Oktobro 2003). Germana Gottlob Frege (1848-1925), un ek la granda matematikisti e logikisti dil moderna epoko, esis laboranta por furnisar la bazo di derivo dil aritmetiko de la logiko. Il publikigabis l'unesma libro di sua "Grundgesetze der Arithmetik" (La Fundamentala Legi dil Aritmetiko) en 1893, e pos quaze dek yari de laboro esis balde publikigonta, e ofronta a la mondo ciencala, la duesma. Angla filozofo Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) lektabis l'unesma libro, e deskovrabis en 1901 la paradoxo (fakte antinomio) supere enuncita, konektita kun l'axiomi di Frege. En polita letro a Frege ipsa, en 1902, yuna Russell expozis quiete la paradoxo. La paradoxo esis destruktanta per un stroko la tota konstrukturo da Frege, +quu konsternita respondis a Russell "...ne nur la fundamento di mea aritmetiko, ma anke l'unika posibla fundamento dil aritmetiko semblas esvanar..." Frege publikigis nihilomine* (malgre to -Roze) sua duesma libro, kun apendico, en +quu lu vane konatis* (attempted) (3) salvar parte sua teorio. Semblas ke pose Frege tote abandonis sua verko pri la logiko dil klasi. Ca kazo, famoza inter l'adepti, konsideresas kom un ek la maxim devastanta stroki ad onua intelektala verko, kai* ad onua ego, en la tota historio dil pensado. ---------- (1) Me diskutis pri selekto inter werar/gerar/tragar (portar sur su kelko: vesto, shui, chapelo...) che Linguolisto, 16 Junio 2001, Mesajo 568, "Korni gerar". (2) Vorti su-referanta indikas o deskriptas su ipsa: - nomo es ipse nomo - utila es ipse utila - uzebla es ipse uzebla - quarsilaba es ipse quarsilaba - misexpelo es ipse misespelo - unsenca es ipse unsenca... Angle-parolanti povas juar la delicoza "selcouth" (ne-ordinara, stranja; marveloza). (3) La racionalon di "konatar*" me expozis che Linguolisto, 12 Mayo 2002, mesajo 701, "Konatar". ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1011 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77093 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 20:11:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2003 20:11:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.4) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2003 20:11:01 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.8) id h95KAxGu022593 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:09:22 -0400 Subject: [linguo] La voyo dil vorti Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200310051610_MC3-1-5199-52A5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Sro Rodi, Se me darfas intervenar ... La situeso nun ne esas sama kam la situeso antee. Nun ni povas diskutar propozata nova vorti multe plu rapide e facile, pro "Internet". Esas nun posibla anke raportar per la sama medio pri nova vorti adoptita. Listi de vorti adoptita depos edito di la vortolibri Ido-germana, Ido-angla ed Ido-franca esas trovebla en (1) la Raporto da Roze (1937), qua regretinde ne esas tote segun ordino alfabetala, (2) multa numeri di "Progreso", (3) la Dicionario da Marcel Pesch (1964, ma mixita kun la vorti plu anciena), (4) la Lexiko di Nova Vorti da Camiel de Cock (1988) e (5) la Lexiko di Nova Vorti [duesma!] plu recente editita da Hans Stuifbergen kun mea helpo. Pos pauzo ye adopto di nova vorti pro mea cirkonstanci, plu recente me rikomencis la laboro e sendis nova listo de posibla nova vorti al sekretario dil Direktanta Komitato (DK) di ULI, por votado da la membri dil DK. Pos kompletigo dil votado, la sekretario mustas kontar, por singla vorto, la voti por ol e kontre ol, ante ke lu povas raportar pri la rezulti. Me ne savas kad omna membro dil DK ja votis. Nun me preparas plusa listo de posibla nova vorti. Me jus recevis, de helpanto, bezonata rusa tradukuri e me transskribas li aden latina alfabeto por uzo en mea programo. Me ankore bezonas helpo pri germana tradukuri. Se irgu povas helpar, voluntez dicar ... Me esperas ke ico explikas la situeso. (Parenteze, me kompilas kompleta listo alfabetala de omna vorti di Ido, ma to bezonas multa tempo.) Robert C. ____________________________ >Kara Sri. Chandler e Stevenson, Me dankas vi pro via klara respondi, e me audacas riquestionar pri ulo quan me ankore multe deziras savar. Ka la vorti nova qui esas fine adoptita da la DK, segun vi explikis a me, esas ulaloke publikigita por omna Idisto? Mea insisteso konsequas de diskuti qui aparas en diferanta forumi, ube questionesas pri vorti recente diskutita. Do, me deziras savar ube me devas konsultar por saveskar pri l'oficala stando di tala vorti. Quale me povos exemple savar ka la vorto novumo* fine aceptesos? Itere me tre deziras atencigar ke me ne intencas pozar irgaspeca presado sur la homi qui multe laboras por nia linguo. Me nur deziras posedar tanta elementi pri Ido kam me povas, kaze ke on itere questionos me. Ed anke, kompreneble, por mea uzo. Vin dankas, Eduardo A. RODI< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1014 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4857 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2003 21:05:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2003 21:05:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2003 21:05:54 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.8) id h97L5rOA023075 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:58:05 -0400 Subject: Nova vorti propozata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200310071659_MC3-1-51E6-96B9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo de 30 nova vorti propozata por konsidero. Plusa listo balde esos= pronta, ma 30 vorti suficas por diskuto prezente. Komenti esas invitata. = NE esas propozata adopto di ambe *movemento e *muvmento! Ta du vorti esas = alternativi por konsidero. Plu kompleta germana tradukuro esas anke bezonat= a por ta senco. Robert C. __________________ Noti: A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca;= G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dl= atina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]=3Dnetransitiva ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta *adi= kt.o / ulu qua esas quaze sklavo di ulo - ne necese drogo o narkotigivo ma= irga vicio od aktiveso. Tale *adikteso (A: addiction, G. S=FCchtigkeit, H.= adicci=F3n) / A: addict F: addict, ~asservi; [-eso] assu=E9tude [d=E9pend= ance], addiction G: S=FCchtiger H: adicto; ~toxic=F3mano I: ~tossico-man= e, ~tossico-dipendente, ~drogato, ~maniaco, ~schiavo; [-eso] dipendenza [bi= sogno fisico e psichico] R: narkoman, man'yak, pomyeshannjy, oderzhimjy, r= ab *ankl.o / artiko inter gambo e pedo, quale karpo esas inter brakio e m= anuo; ne maleolo (qua esas osto-parto) / A: ankle F: cheville [anat.] G: = Kn=F6chel H: tobillo I: caviglia [anat.] R: shchikolotka Esp: maleolo [= piedartiko] *ara.o / sorto di papagayo koloroza / A: macaw F: ara G: Ar= a H: guacamayo I: ara R: ara Esp: arao Lat: Ara *artros.o / morbo ne= -inflamala di artiki / A: arthosis [disease of the joints] F: arthrose G= : Arthrose H: artrosis I: artrosi R: artroz Esp: artrozo *banj.o / muz= ik-instrumento / A: banjo F: banjo G: Banjo H: banjo I: banjo, bangio = R: bandzho Esp: bang^o *benzodiazepin.o / medikamento quietigiva e dormi= giva / A: benzodiazepine F: benzodiaz=E9pine G: Benzodiazepin H: benzodia= zepina I: benzodiazepina R: byenzodiazyepin Esp: benzodiazepino *bikini.= o / mikra du-parta vesto por mulieri / A: bikini F: bikini G: Bikini H:= bikini, biquini I: bikini, bichini R: bikini Esp: bikino *ciberspac.o = / quaza mondo artificala, kreita *komputore / A: cyberspace F: cyberespace= G: Cyberspace H: ciberespacio I: cyberspazio R: kibyerprostranstvo *di= zel.o / sorto di motoro; tale anke *dizel-oleo, *dizel-lokomotivo e.c., e = *dizelala / A: diesel engine F: diesel, moteur Diesel G: Dieselmotor, Die= sel H: diesel, motor Diesel I: diesel, motore diesel R: dizel Esp: dizel= o *gargol.o / eskap-tubo por aquo de domo, normale del tekto-kanaleto. Fo= ye ol havas formo groteska / A: gargoyle F: gargouille G: Wasserspeier H= : g=E1rgola I: gargouille, gargolla, doccione R: gorgul'ya Esp: gargojlo= *gastroenterit.o / inflamo, ofte infektala, di mukozi stomakala ed intes= tinala, tipe kun vomo o diareo / A: gastroenteritis F: gastro-ent=E9rite = G: Gastroenteritis H: gastroenteritis I: gastroenterite R: gastroentyerit= Esp: gastroenterito, gastrenterito *gastroenterologi.o / medicino stomak= ala ed intestinala / A: gastroenterology F: gastro-ent=E9rologie G: Gastro= enterologie H: gastroenterolog=EDa I: gastroenterologia R: gastroentyerol= ogiya *gastroskop.o / instrumento por vidar en stomako / A: gastroscope = F: gastroscope G: Gastroskop H: fibroscopio I: gastroscopio R: gastrosko= p Esp: gastroskopo *gastroskopi.o / studio di stomako per *gastroskopo [q= ua vartas rusa trad.] / A: gastroscopy F: gastroscopie G: Gastroskopie H= : gastroscop=EDa I: gastroscopia R: gastroskopi Esp: gastroskopio *gaur.= o / bovo sovaja di sud-Azia / A: gaur F: gaur G: Gaur H: gaur I: gaur = R: gaur Esp: gau`ro Lat: Bos gaurus =3D Bos frontalis *genocid.o / oci= do di grupo nacionala, populo od *etnio / A: genocide F: g=E9nocide G: V= =F6lkermord, Genozid H: genocidio I: genocidio R: genocid Esp: genocido = *grapefrut.o / frukto, forsan kombinajo de oranjo e pompelmuso. Ne pompel= muso (Citrus maxima, Citrus grandis, Citrus decumana), frukto ovala, plu gr= anda e ne (o ne multe) konsumata en Europa, ma kun qua Pesch, e Franci gene= rale, semble konfundas ol / A: grapefruit [fruit] F: grape-fruit, grapefru= it, pom=E9lo, "pamplemousse" G: Grapefruit H: grape-fruit I: pompelmo [fr= utto] R: gryeypfrut Esp: grapfrukto Lat: Citrus paradisi *guru.o / reli= giala duktero o docero, specale Hindua o simila; anke metafore / A: guru = F: gourou G: Guru H: guru I: guru R: guru Esp: guruo *hafni.o / elem.= kem. 72 (Hf) / A: hafnium F: hafnium G: Hafnium H: hafnio I: afnio R:= gafniy Esp: hafnio *hipokaust.o / anciena Romana aparato por varmigo di= domo / A: hypocaust F: hypocauste G: Hypokaustum H: hipocausto I: ipoca= usto R: gipokaust Esp: hipokausto *histerektomi.o / operaco por forigar= utero / A: hysterectomy F: hyst=E9rectomie G: Hysterektomie H: histerect= om=EDa I: isterectomia R: gistyerektomiya, udalyeniye matki Esp: uterekt= omio *ionosfer.o / alta strato di atmosfero / A: ionosphere F: ionosph= =E8re G: Ionosph=E4re H: ionosfera I: ionosfera R: ionosfyera Esp: jono= sfero *kardiopati.o / morbo kordiala / A: cardiopathy F: cardiopathie G= : Herzkrankheit H: cardiopat=EDa I: cardiopatia R: zabolyevaniye syerca, = artyeriosklyeroticheskiy kardiosklyeroz Esp: kardiopatio *kognat.o / dec= endanto per femini de komuna femina ancestro; kontraste ad *agnato / A: co= gnate [ancestry] F: cognat G: Kognat H: cognaci=F3n I: parente in linea = femminile R: rodstvyennik po linii matyeri Esp: kognato *konstelacion.o = / ensemblo de steli. Progreso 326,p16 / A: constellation F: constellation= G: Sternbild H: constelaci=F3n I: costellazione [astr.] R: sozvyezdiye = Esp: konstelacio *krex.o / ucelo / A: corncrake F: r=E2le des gen=EAts = G: Wiesenralle H: rey de codornices, rasc=F3n, gui=F3n de las codornices, = [LA] totoposte I: re di quaglie R: korostel Esp: krekso Lat: Crex crex = *lontan.a / desproxima, multe distanta. Olim propozita da Andreas Juste / = A: distant [far away], far F: lointain [adj.] G: fern [r=E4umlich] H: l= ejano, distante I: lontano [nello spazio] R: galyokiy, gal'niy, otdalyonn= jy Esp: malproksima, fora *movement.o o muvment.o? / agado kolektiva por = chanjo sociala, o kurento kulturala, artala, politikala e.c. Til nun "movad= o". Progreso 326,p17: *movemento; Pesch,p388: *muvmento. Ja existas "movime= nto" (kun altra senco) / A: movement [collective action with a common aim: = social, cultural, political, etc.] F: mouvement [action collective qui ten= d =E0 produire un changement dans l'ordre social] G: Bewegung [... ?] H: m= ovimiento [corriente de ciertos grupos de personas hacia determinadas reali= zaciones] *populacion.o / grupo de personi, animali, planti, objekti o ko= zi konsiderata cience (precipue matematike, genetike o fizike). Progreso 32= 8,p11 / A: population [science] F: population [science] G: Bev=F6lkerung,= Population [Wissenschaft] H: poblaci=F3n [ciencia] I: popolazione [scien= za] R: nasyelyeniye [nauka] Esp: populacio *quoniam / esante ke, konsid= erante ke, donite ke, egarde ke. Konjunciono qua introduktas kauzo, motivo = o cirkonstanco konocata. Roze,p96; Pesch,p478; Progreso,328,p11 / A: given= that, seeing that, inasmuch as, as, since F: puisque, =E9tant donn=E9 que= , du moment que, comme G: da, in Anbetracht dessen dass H: pues que, ya q= ue, puesto que, visto que, como I: poich=E9, giacch=E9, dal momento que, vi= sto che, dato che, como R: poskolku, tak kak Lat: quoniam Noto: princip= e la rusa alfabeto esas hike transskribita (traktante la literi segun la no= rmala ordino) yene: 1 a; 2 b; 3 v; 4 g; 5 d; 6 ye; 7 yo; 8 zh; 9 z; 10 i; 1= 1 y; 12 k; 13 l; 14 m; 15 n; 16 o; 17 p; 18 r; 19 s; 20 t; 21 u; 22 f; 23 k= h; 24 c; 25 ch; 26 sh; 27 shch; 28 ' (signo di moleso); 29 j; 30 " (signo d= i hardeso); 31 e; 32 yu; 33 ya. Ta metodo posibligas retro-transskribo. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1015 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97251 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 17:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2003 17:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.71) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 17:53:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:53:27 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.70 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:53:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Komenti pri nova vorti Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:53:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2003 17:53:27.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[13B86070:01C38DC5] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert, Me volas kunlaborar kun vu pri la selekto di nova vorti. Tale me pregas vu sendar vortolisti a me ante Linguolisto. Me havas vidpunto utila, distinta de vua, pro mea konoco di Novial ed altra sistemi. Me povos remarkigar a vu problemi e mala selekti ante ke vu publikigas oli a la cetera idistaro. Vu savas ke me sempre respondos rapide, do ne tardigos vua laboro. Ka vu konsentas pri ca propozo? Yen mea komenti pri la maxim recenta listo: adikto*, adikteso*: semblas klara ke ni bezonas verbo adikt/ar, e derivaji adikt/ita, adikt/ito, adikt/eso ("addiction") anklo*: F cheville e I caviglia implikas formo: kavili/o en Ido. Kp. F famille, I famiglia => Ido familio F cheval, I cavallo => Ido kavalo genocido*: ka ni ne ja havas gent/o, e derivajo gentocido? konstelaciono*: ka stel/aro o stel/grupo ne suficas? Me nur volas certigar ke ni bezonas ica radiko lontana*: sinonimo di for/a, ka ni bezonas duesma radiko? movemento*: segun me la maxim apta formo, ja multe uzata Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1016 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67377 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2003 20:42:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Oct 2003 20:42:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.60) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Oct 2003 20:42:43 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:42:43 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.71 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:42:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: euro Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:42:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2003 20:42:43.0134 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8EC95E0:01C38DDC] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara sro Gaubert Responde vua questiono, l'italiani ya uzas pluralo "euri", segun la shablono di sua linguo. La naturala pluralo en germana esus ne "euren" ma "euros" (kp. "autos"), tamen me ne savas ka la germani fakte uzas ica pluralo. En Ido ni askoltez pioniro Couturat, e permisez amba metodi: 1 euro - 2 euro 1 euro - 2 euri Me ipsa preferas la lasta, segun la natural tendenco di nia idiomo. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1017 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30628 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2003 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.154] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Oct 2003 03:49:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:49:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [linguo] La voyo dil vorti Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310051610_MC3-1-5199-52A5@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2645 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sro. R. B. Carnaghan, Vu ya darfas intervenar, kompreneble. E me dankas vua klarigo. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. R.B. Carnaghan skribis: > Kara Sro Rodi, > > Se me darfas intervenar ... > > La situeso nun ne esas sama kam la situeso antee. > Nun ni povas diskutar propozata nova vorti multe plu rapide e facile, pro > "Internet". > Esas nun posibla anke raportar per la sama medio pri nova vorti adoptita. > > Listi de vorti adoptita depos edito di la vortolibri Ido-germana, Ido-angla > ed Ido-franca esas trovebla en (1) la Raporto da Roze (1937), qua > regretinde ne esas tote segun ordino alfabetala, (2) multa numeri di > "Progreso", (3) la Dicionario da Marcel Pesch (1964, ma mixita kun la vorti > plu anciena), (4) la Lexiko di Nova Vorti da Camiel de Cock (1988) e (5) la > Lexiko di Nova Vorti [duesma!] plu recente editita da Hans Stuifbergen kun > mea helpo. > > Pos pauzo ye adopto di nova vorti pro mea cirkonstanci, plu recente me > rikomencis la laboro e sendis nova listo de posibla nova vorti al > sekretario dil Direktanta Komitato (DK) di ULI, por votado da la membri dil > DK. Pos kompletigo dil votado, la sekretario mustas kontar, por singla > vorto, la voti por ol e kontre ol, ante ke lu povas raportar pri la > rezulti. Me ne savas kad omna membro dil DK ja votis. > > Nun me preparas plusa listo de posibla nova vorti. Me jus recevis, de > helpanto, bezonata rusa tradukuri e me transskribas li aden latina alfabeto > por uzo en mea programo. Me ankore bezonas helpo pri germana tradukuri. Se > irgu povas helpar, voluntez dicar ... > > Me esperas ke ico explikas la situeso. > > (Parenteze, me kompilas kompleta listo alfabetala de omna vorti di Ido, ma > to bezonas multa tempo.) > > Robert C. > ____________________________ > > > >Kara Sri. Chandler e Stevenson, > > Me dankas vi pro via klara respondi, e me audacas riquestionar pri > ulo quan me ankore multe deziras savar. Ka la vorti nova qui esas > fine adoptita da la DK, segun vi explikis a me, esas ulaloke > publikigita por omna Idisto? Mea insisteso konsequas de diskuti qui > aparas en diferanta forumi, ube questionesas pri vorti recente > diskutita. Do, me deziras savar ube me devas konsultar por saveskar > pri l'oficala stando di tala vorti. Quale me povos exemple savar ka > la vorto novumo* fine aceptesos? > > Itere me tre deziras atencigar ke me ne intencas pozar irgaspeca > presado sur la homi qui multe laboras por nia linguo. Me nur deziras > posedar tanta elementi pri Ido kam me povas, kaze ke on itere > questionos me. Ed anke, kompreneble, por mea uzo. > > Vin dankas, > > Eduardo A. RODI< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1018 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9696 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 03:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2003 03:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 03:54:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.113] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Oct 2003 03:54:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:54:37 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nova vorti propozata Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310071659_MC3-1-51E6-96B9@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 792 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi R.B. Carnaghan skribis: > Yen listo de 30 nova vorti propozata por konside= ro. > Komenti esas invitata. > *quoniam / esante ke, konsiderante ke, don= ite ke, egarde > ke. Konjunciono qua introduktas kauzo, motivo o cirkonstan= co > konocata. Roze,p96; Pesch,p478; Progreso,328,p11 / A: given > that, s= eeing that, inasmuch as, as, since F: puisque, =E9tant > donn=E9 que, du m= oment que, comme G: da, in Anbetracht dessen > dass H: pues que, ya que, = puesto que, visto que, como > I: poich=E9, giacch=E9, dal momento que, vist= o che, dato che, > como R: poskolku, tak kak Lat: quoniam Kara samideani= , Til nun me kredis ke por ta ideo ni uzas "nam", o "pro ke". Nam/Pro ke/= *Quoniam me ne komprenas lo, kad irgu povus explikar a me quale diferas na= m de *quoniam? Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1019 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89181 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 10:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2003 10:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.105) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 10:24:21 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 03:24:21 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:24:20 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: nam e quoniam* Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:24:20 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2003 10:24:21.0332 (UTC) FILETIME=[80F0A140:01C38E4F] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara sro Rodi La senco di quoniam* es esence "konsiderante ke, supozante ke". Ol enduktas supozo o "axiomo", segun qua on mustas judikar la sequanta argumento. En angla l'equivalant expreso "given that" es absolute nekareebla en la studio di probableso (statistiko), exemple: Esas quar buli en buxo, du blanka e du reda. On ektiras un bulo, ol es blanka. Quoniam* l'unesma bulo es blanka, kalkulez la probableso ke la nexta bulo ektirata esos reda. Preske la tota studio di probableso konsistas ek tala questioni! Ico diferas de la senco di 'nam', qua implikas kauzo. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1020 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52067 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2003 21:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2003 21:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ad.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2003 21:31:24 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ad.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.8) id h99LVOfE004772 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:29:34 -0400 Subject: [linguo] Komenti pri nova vorti Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200310091731_MC3-1-523D-680E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara James, Danko pro vua komenti. >Me volas kunlaborar kun vu pri la selekto di nova vorti. Tale me pregas vu sendar vortolisti a me ante Linguolisto. Me havas vidpunto utila, distinta de vua, pro mea konoco di Novial ed altra sistemi. Me povos remarkigar a vu problemi e mala selekti ante ke vu publikigas oli a la cetera idistaro. Vu savas ke me sempre respondos rapide, do ne tardigos vua laboro. Ka vu konsentas pri ca propozo? Yen mea komenti pri la maxim recenta listo:< Me timas ke takaze altri anke volos recevar la listo ante sendo a Linguolisto ... La propozi por qui komenti esas invitata esas provizora, ne fixa. >adikto*, adikteso*: semblas klara ke ni bezonas verbo adikt/ar, e derivaji adikt/ita, adikt/ito, adikt/eso ("addiction")< Qua esus la senco di "adikt/ar"? Kad ol esus transitiva o netransitiva? Ka persono qua esas ankore "*adikto" esus "adiktata" od "adiktita"? To dependas ye la senco dil verbo. Por omna propozo on bezonas tradukuri, (1) por plu bone konsiderar la formo dil vorto propozata per komparo kun la bazala lingui; (2) se adoptita, por donar oli en vortolibri. Ka vu povas skribar la tradukuri por "adikt/ar"? >anklo*: F cheville e I caviglia implikas formo: kavili/o en Ido. Kp. F famille, I famiglia => Ido familio F cheval, I cavallo => Ido kavalo< Segun Dyer, "familio" venas de DEFIRS, e "kavalo" venas de DeFIRS. Ka prefere "La *kavilii di kavali ofte ..." o "la *ankli di kavali ofte ..."? >genocido*: ka ni ne ja havas gent/o, e derivajo gentocido?< >konstelaciono*: ka stel/aro o stel/grupo ne suficas? Me nur volas certigar ke ni bezonas ica radiko< Esas mea kulpo ke me omisis dicar ke *konstelaciono ne esas irga grupo de steli ma un de ta grupi de steli qui semblas esar relative proxima (segun nia vidpunto), e qui formacas grupi generale agnoskata. (Recente me vidis listo dil nomi dil *konstelacioni en libro astronomiala.) Quale aludas Richard Stevenson, on povas grupigar steli altramaniere, exemple segun brileso o disto de ni. Ne omna stelogrupo esas *konstelaciono. >lontana*: sinonimo di for/a, ka ni bezonas duesma radiko?< Segun Pesch, "for" signifikas "eskarteso, plu o min granda". Ma *lontana signifikus multe distanta. Se me bone komprenas, to qua esas *lontana certe esas fora, ma to qua esas fora ne necese esas *lontana. Regardante Dyer, forsan "for" prezente havas amba senci. Me supozas ke to esas pro ke ol mustas servar por amba senci pro manko di "*lontana". Kad "forirez" havas la senco "irez tale ke vu esos ne proxima" od "irez tale ke vu esos longe distanta"? La unesma, me kredas. Tamen, quon pensas altri? >movemento*: segun me la maxim apta formo, ja multe uzata< Kad on forsan bezonus uzar "*movemento" e "movimento" en sama diskurso? Ka "*muvemento" esus apta kompromiso inter la du formi til nun propozita? >Kordiale, James Chandler< Quon pensas altri pri la supere mencionita idei? Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1021 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83674 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 04:17:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2003 04:17:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 04:17:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.155] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Oct 2003 04:17:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 04:17:07 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: nam e quoniam* Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1304 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sro Chandler, Danko. Nun me klare komprenas la difero, e me opinionas quale vu, ke *quoniam es ya nekareebla ne nur por statistiko ma anke por mult altra texti precipue cienciala. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI James Chandler skribis: > Kara sro Rodi > > La senco di quoniam* es esence "konsiderante ke, supozante ke". Ol enduktas > supozo o "axiomo", segun qua on mustas judikar la sequanta argumento. En > angla l'equivalant expreso "given that" es absolute nekareebla en la studio > di probableso (statistiko), exemple: > > Esas quar buli en buxo, du blanka e du reda. On ektiras un bulo, ol es > blanka. Quoniam* l'unesma bulo es blanka, kalkulez la probableso ke la > nexta bulo ektirata esos reda. > > Preske la tota studio di probableso konsistas ek tala questioni! Ico > diferas de la senco di 'nam', qua implikas kauzo. > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@h... > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > > "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side > Gallery, Berlin > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1022 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61620 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2003 10:59:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2003 10:59:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.79) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2003 10:59:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:59:53 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:59:53 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Plusa komenti pri nova vorti Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:59:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2003 10:59:53.0982 (UTC) FILETIME=[A282F1E0:01C38F1D] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Dum la konfero en agosto, un ek la temi diskutita esis quale plufaciligar e plurapidigar la laboro di la Linguala Sekretario pri la selekto di nova vorti, quin nia linguo absolute bezonas. On konstatis, ke vua laboro es vere tasko di instituto, ne sola persono. On konkordis, ke esus dezirinda expansar la grupo qua laboras pri nova vorti. Mea propozo esis nur l'unesma pazo vers grupo qua reserchas* nova vorti, vice sola persono. adikt/ar* esus transitiva. Altra derivuro esus: adikt/iva (E addictive). Quale on expresus ico per adj-o: adikt/ig/iva? kavili/o* es nur FI, tamen me multe preferas ol kam ankl/o*, nur E. Ni ja havas tro multa anglaji en Ido, ex. la tre mala 'quik'. E yes, me preferas 'La kavilii* di kavalo' (forsan vu prizas 'L'ankli* di onkli'?). konstelaciono*: yes, me aceptas vua argumento pri la neceseso di ca vorto. lontana*: forsan esus nuancala difero inter lontana* e fora; ni povus permisar amba formi. movemento*: me ne kredas ke on bezonus uzar to e movimento en la sama frazo. Omnakaze movemento* semblas esar la populara selekto Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "NO MORE WALLS. NO MORE WARS. A UNITED WORLD." - Mural at the East Side Gallery, Berlin _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1023 Return-Path: X-Sender: cheal@hotpop.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34805 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2003 06:17:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2003 06:17:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 06:17:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.143] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2003 06:17:37 -0000 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:17:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Itere plusa komenti pri nova vorti Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 778 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "filipklutie" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=156619618 X-Yahoo-Profile: filipklutie Karega Robert, me unesme devas dankar tu pri ca granda laboro, ante irga kritiko. Me (e me konjektas ke omni anke) konkordas pri la nesuficeso di unika linguala sekreterio. Pluprecize me konsideras komputala grupo. Me probos uzar Tikiwiki por plufaciligar laboro di ca grupo/i. Yen la vorto quon me ne prizas : krexo. Ka ca formo justifikesas nur pro Latina formo? Se yes, me opinionas ke ca vorto esas tro kurta por tale rara kozo (me nulatempe uzis la franca vorto). Ni devas esforcar por konservar kurta e bela vorti disponebla por kozi ofte dicota. Me prizas sugesto pri "quoniam". Me ipsa ofte mustas questionar me "Quala vorto remplasas "puisque" en Ido?" sen trovar respondo e mustante uzar "egardante ke". Parentezale me konjektas ke vu misuzis vorto "kompromiso". From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1024 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83602 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2003 12:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2003 12:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.104) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2003 12:22:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.141] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Oct 2003 12:22:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:22:05 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Pri la vorto *konstelaciono Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 850 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Fernando TEJON" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Pri *konstelaciono: >ka stel/aro o stel/grupo ne suficas? > >Esas mea kulpo ke me omisis dicar ke *konstelaciono ne esas irga >grupo de steli ma un de ta grupi de steli qui semblas esar relative >proxima (segun nia vidpunto), e qui formacas grupi generale >agnoskata. (Recente me vidis listo dil nomi dil *konstelacioni en >libro astronomiala.) Quale aludas Richard Stevenson, on povas >grupigar steli altramaniere, exemple segun brileso o disto de ni. Ne >omna stelogrupo esas *konstelaciono. Kara samforumani Me multe prizas la vorto *konstelaciono. Yes, nur okadek e ok (dek e du zodiakala) stelari esas vere *konstelaciono. Altra grupi de steli nomesas plu bone simple stelari. La oficala nomi dil *konstelacioni esas Latina nomi, e me dezirus savar lua Idala nomi. Kad ulu savas ta nomi? Amikale Fernando TEJON -------------- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1025 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40595 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2003 22:42:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Oct 2003 22:42:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2003 22:42:36 -0000 Received: from azalia ([24.132.24.215]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20031015224156.TLZD11138.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:41:56 +0200 Message-ID: <02bf01c3936d$d1d0db70$d7188418@azalia> To: Subject: Nova vorti propozata Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:43:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "H. Stuifbergen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Robert, ed altra amiki, Yen mea komenti pri la selekto de nova vorti: *adikt.o / ulu qua esas quaze sklavo di ulo - ne necese drogo o narkotigivo ma irga vicio od aktiveso. Tale *adikteso (A: addiction, G. S�chtigkeit, H. adicci�n) / A: addict F: addict, ~asservi; [-eso] assu�tude [d�pendance], addiction G: S�chtiger H: adicto; ~toxic�mano I: ~tossico-mane, ~tossico-dipendente, ~drogato, ~maniaco, ~schiavo; [-eso] dipendenza [bisogno fisico e psichico] R: narkoman, man'yak, pomyeshannjy, oderzhimjy, rab - Same kam James Chandler me opinionas ke la radiko esez verbo, do: adiktar ("sklavigar"). - adiktar: Ula drogo, narkotigivo, vicio od aktiveso povas adiktar ("la narkotajo adiktis il"). - adiktito: Persono *adiktita = adiktito. - adiktiva: Certena produkto povas esar *adiktiva ("vino es adiktiva", edc.). - adikteso = stando esar adiktita *ankl.o / artiko inter gambo e pedo, quale karpo esas inter brakio e manuo; ne maleolo (qua esas osto-parto) / A: ankle F: cheville [anat.] G: Kn�chel H: tobillo I: caviglia [anat.] R: shchikolotka Esp: maleolo [piedartiko] - Kad omna ta yardeki l' Idisti marchis sen maleol-artiki? Kad anke existas diferanta vorti por "pulse" ed "wrist"? Forsan esos plu bona artikigar la maleolo ed ostigar la maleolo per: maleolosto. (La dicerno ne existas en la Nederlandana, ube on dicernas l' artiko del osto per: "enkel" e "enkelbot", rispekt. "maleolo" e "maleol-osto", same kam "pols" e "polsbot; polsbeen", rispekt. "karpo" e "karp-osto"). *genocid.o / ocido di grupo nacionala, populo od *etnio / A: genocide F: g�nocide G: V�lkermord, Genozid H: genocidio I: genocidio R: genocid Esp: genocido Anke hike me konkordas kun James Chandler, gentocido es bona vorto. Pri la resto di la vorti me es kontenta e konkordas pri oli. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1026 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8765 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2003 20:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2003 20:01:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ag.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.13) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2003 20:01:07 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ag.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.8) id h9GK16VB005387 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:58:13 -0400 Subject: [linguo] Pri la vorto *konstelaciono Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200310161559_MC3-1-53AB-ECDC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Fernando, Plu kurte, *konstelaciono esas stelo-grupo konvencionala. La vortolibri Ido-Germana da Feder & Schneeberger ed Ido-Angla da Dyer inkluzas nomi en Ido di ula *konstelacioni, ma me ne savas ube esas trovebla listo en Ido nur di *konstelacioni - forsan en ula numero di "Progreso" o di "Mondo". En Dyer on povas trovar exemple: centauro (latine: Centaurus), hidro (Hydra), jemeli (Gemini), granda urso (Ursa Major), mikra urso (Ursa Minor). Preske certe mankas en Ido nomi di ula *konstelacioni ek la 88. Ube ni povas trovar kompleta listi dil *konstelacioni en la angla, franca, germana, hispana, italiana e rusa lingui? Robert C. >Kara samforumani Me multe prizas la vorto *konstelaciono. Yes, nur okadek e ok (dek e du zodiakala) stelari esas vere *konstelaciono. Altra grupi de steli nomesas plu bone simple stelari. La oficala nomi dil *konstelacioni esas Latina nomi, e me dezirus savar lua Idala nomi. Kad ulu savas ta nomi? Amikale Fernando TEJON< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1027 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54707 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2003 21:36:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2003 21:36:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2003 21:36:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2003 21:36:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:36:20 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: La nomo di singla *konstelaciono Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200310161559_MC3-1-53AB-ECDC@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1988 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Fernando TEJON" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Afero: La nomo di singla *konstelaciono --------------------------------------- Kar samforumani Me pregas ke vi videz en "files" di ca forumo (LinguoListo) "doc"- forme dokumento: "*konstelaciono.doc". Me skribis ta dokumento ye tabelo-formo. Onu lektas unesme la abreviita nomi latina (tri literi), duesme Latinlingue nomi, triesme Hispanlingue nomi e lastesme Idolingue nomi dil okadek e ok *konstelacioni. Me ne konocabas omna nomi en Ido, do me tradukis ula nomi del Hispana e del Latina. Forsan ula nomin me tradukis erore. Desfortunoze me ne savas ta nombri en altra lingui. Kad ulu ek vi? Kande mea Ido-savo esos sat bona, komprenende ne hodie, me dezirus skribar mikra libro de astronomio Idolingue. Ne-kareeble onu bezonos konocar la nomi dil *konstelacioni, planeti, precipua steli, stelari, e. c. Amikale, Fernando TEJON -------------- --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@c...> wrote: > Kara Fernando, > > Plu kurte, *konstelaciono esas stelo-grupo konvencionala. > > La vortolibri Ido-Germana da Feder & Schneeberger ed Ido-Angla da Dyer > inkluzas nomi en Ido di ula *konstelacioni, ma me ne savas ube esas > trovebla listo en Ido nur di *konstelacioni - forsan en ula numero di > "Progreso" o di "Mondo". En Dyer on povas trovar exemple: centauro (latine: > Centaurus), hidro (Hydra), jemeli (Gemini), granda urso (Ursa Major), mikra > urso (Ursa Minor). > > Preske certe mankas en Ido nomi di ula *konstelacioni ek la 88. Ube ni > povas trovar kompleta listi dil *konstelacioni en la angla, franca, > germana, hispana, italiana e rusa lingui? > > Robert C. > > >Kara samforumani > > Me multe prizas la vorto *konstelaciono. Yes, nur okadek e ok (dek e > du zodiakala) stelari esas vere *konstelaciono. Altra grupi de steli > nomesas plu bone simple stelari. La oficala nomi dil *konstelacioni > esas Latina nomi, e me dezirus savar lua Idala nomi. Kad ulu savas ta > nomi? > > Amikale > > Fernando TEJON< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1028 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 66477 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2003 09:01:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2003 09:01:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr1.sis.it) (217.72.32.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2003 09:01:11 -0000 Received: from nardinic [217.72.33.70] with smtp by fr1.sis.it with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #3 #3) id m1ABCEt-001rQaC; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:00:51 -0100 (GMT+1) Message-ID: <000501c39623$6e59b360$462148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Subject: Sintaxo Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 11:28:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Carlo Nardini" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus > ...me ne komprenas lo; kad irgu povus explikar a me > quale diferas nam de *quoniam? E.A.R. [Incidente, E.A.R. skribas bona Ido, mea-judike] Recente on diskutis che Linguolisto kad ib' esas difero inter 'nam' e propozata 'quoniam' (Persiko, Roze, Carnaghan). En mea artiklo "Paradoxi dil probableso", uzinte 'quoniam' me expozis la difero, +quu existas segun me inter 'quoniam e pro ke'. Me ne parolis pri la difero inter 'nam e quoniam'. Me konfesas ke to ne mem okuris* a me, la posibleso di superpozo inter 'nam e quoniam'. To esis ul mea kulpo, pov esar. Tamen, esas extenuanti por me. Unesme, esis desfacila divinar posibla konfundo inter du konjuncioni gramatike diferanta, implikanta diferanta frazo-konstrukti per diferanta mentala procedi. Nam, - existanta 'nam' es konjunciono "koordinala", konsiderebla quaze kom adverbo (1) (mi-konjunciono nomesas ol en Dyer); - propozata 'quoniam' es konjunciono "subordinala" (sam-klasa kam 'pro ke'), quale aparas klare de l'exempli e de l'AFGHIR-ajo donita en mea artiklo. Duesme, probable me esis pensanta ne-koncie segun la Latina, de olqua 'nam e quoniam' venas tal quala. Sume 'nam e quoniam' es gramatike ne-permutebla, e pro to ne-superpozebla, irge quante proxima semantike oli povas esar en certena kazi. Me trovas ca gramatikal temo stimuliva, e me konatos* klarigar ol, unesme a me ipsa. Pro to, me rivizitos segun-save la tradicionala elementala sintaxo, agnoskante ke ank en linguistiko, quale en omna feldo, povas existar diversa +aprochi a la diversa temi. ========== S I N T A X O D I L F R A Z O Inter la propozicioni apartenanta a frazo komplexa existas tri-speca precipua relati: subordineso, koordineso, apudpozeso. ^^^ SUBORDINESO (hipotaxo*) (2) Du o plua propozicioni, konektita da konjuncioni "subordinala", o da pronomi o adverbi relativa, trovesas en relato hierarkiala: una propoziciono (chefa o primara) es sintaxe e parte semantike autonoma; la/e altra (subordinita o sekundara) ne es autonoma, ma dependas sintaxe e semantike de la primara, o de altra sekundara en-katene. Ula propoziciono havas "sintaxala autonomeso" se, extraktita de lua kuntexto sintaxala, retenas lua "gramatikaleso", t.e. havas gramatikala kapableso stacar sola korekte (3). Ula propoziciono havas "semantikala autonomeso" se, extraktita de lua kuntexto sintaxala, retenas lua senco generala. On konsiderez l'exemplo sequanta: # Me lektas la jurnalo omna-die [primara], pro ke me deziras savar la niuvi* (4) [sekundara]. La propoziciono "me lektas la jurnalo omna-die" povas gramatikale stacar sola, retenante sua senco esencal. La propoziciono "pro ke me deziras savar la niuvi*" ne povas gramatikale stacar sola, e havas kompleta senco nur relate la propoziciono primara, +quun ol specigas. En lo skribita la propozicioni primara e sekundara es kustume separita per simpla komo, o mem ne separita. La propoziciono primara foye sequas la sekundara: # Quoniam* me lektas la jurnalo omna-die [sekundara], me sempre savas la niuvi* [primara]. La relati di subordineso interdistingesas, inter altro, per lo koncernata da la propoziciono subordinita: - deklaro/enunco (ke...) - skopo (por ke...) - konsequo (tale ke...) - opozo (quankam, malgre ke, kontre ke...) - kondiciono (se, kondicione ke...) - konfronto (quale se...) - tempo (kande, pos ke...) - kauzo (PRO KE, QUONIAM*...); e.c.... ^^^ KOORDINESO (parataxo*) (5) Du o plua propozicioni, konektita da konjunciono "koordinala", retenas singla la propra autonomeso, sintaxe e semantike: altra-vorte la propozicioni koordinita es sintaxe sen-dependa e sam-valora, e semantike komplete sencoza. Ton demonstras l'exemplo sequanta: # Me lektas la jurnalo omna-die [autonoma]. Nam me deziras savar la niuvi* [autonoma]. En lo skribita, inter la propozicioni koordinita, generale es puntizuro, +quu povas esar komo, punto-komo, bi-punto o mem punto, parte segun la konjunciono, parte segun la stilo dil Autoro (6). En lo parolata, inter la propozicioni koordinita, generale es sentebla pauzo. Esas plura tipi di koordineso, a qui korespondas plura konjuncioni koordinala: - koordineso kopuliva (e, nek...) - koordineso desjuntiva (o, od...) - koordineso opoziva (ma, tamen...) - koordineso konkluziva (do, pro to...) - koordineso explikiva (NAM, to esas...). e.c.... ^^^ APUDPOZESO (asindeto*) (7) Du o plua propozicioni apudesas, sen ula formala ligo inter su, t.e. sen konjunciono. Le propozicioni apudpozita es autonoma sintaxe e semantike, quale le propozicioni koordinita. On povas anke konsiderar l'apudpozeso kom kazo partikulara di koordineso. Yen du exempli: # Me deziras savar la niuvi* [autonoma], me lektas la jurnalo omna-die [autonoma]. # Lu komprenas, me kredas. En lo skribita le propozicioni apudpozita es generale limitizita per puntizuro, en lo parolata per pauzo. ---------- K O N K L U Z O Ib' esas tri konjuncioni, du existanta 'nam e pro ke', unu propozata 'quoniam': - 'nam' es konjunciono koordinala explikiva (mem konsiderebla kom kunjuntanta adverbo); - 'pro ke e quoniam' es konjuncioni subordinala kauzala. 'Pro ke e quoniam' diferas l'unu de l'altru semantike, t.e. logikale. 'Nam' diferas de l'altra du esence gramatike, t.e. anke e precipue formale (8). Omna tri explikas kelko, ma oli agas lo, difere l'unu de l'altru. Kelka-foye la singulareso es salianta, quale en la frazo sugestita en Linguolisto "quoniam okuris* certena evento, probableso di altra dependanta evento esas...". Altra-foye la distingo es plu nuancoza. La sequanta frazi vehigas engrose la sama koncepto: a) lu sucesos, pro ke lu es habila; b) quoniam lu es habila, lu sucesos; c) lu sucesos; nam lu es habila; d) lu es habila, lu sucesos. Tamen, se me sentas juste, certena nuanci distingas ca sama frazi. On povas imaginar posibla preiranto di singla frazo, e la relativa mentala parkuro. a) Pro quo lu sucesos? Lu sucesos pro ke lu es habila [enunco di kauzo]. b) Ka lu sucesos? Quoniam lu es habila, lu sucesos [racionoza prevido]. c) Ka lu ne sucesos? Lu sucesos; nam lu es habila [tranquiligo motivizita]. d) Ka timar ke lu ne sucesos? Lu es habila, lu sucesos [sendubita sekurigo]. ---------- K E L K A L A T I N A 'Nam e quoniam' es vorti Latina tal quala, ortografie, semantike, gramatike. ...omni ratione colenda iustitia est, tum ipsa per sese (nam aliter iustitia non esset) tum... ...per omna maniero yusteso es kultivenda, sive por su ipsa (nam altre ne esus yusteso) sive... [Cicero] ...multi uno tempore oratores floruerunt. Nam A. Albinus...et litteratus et disertus fuit. Nam Q. Metellus...in primis est habitus eloquens... ...multa oratori +floris en un epoko. Nam A. Albinus...esis ed erudita ed fluanta. Nam Q. Metellus... konsideresis kom un ek la maxim eloquenta... [Cicero] ...quamobrem, Quirites, quoniam ad omna pulvinaria supplicatio decreta est, celebratote illos dies cum coniugibus ac liberis vestris: nam multi saepe honores d�s immortalibus iusti habiti sunt, sed profecto iustiores nunquam... ...nu, ho Quiriti, quoniam danko-ceremonii dekretesis en omna templo, esez celebronta ta dii kun via spozi e filii: nam ofte atribuesis a la dei ne-mortiva yusta honori, ma nevre* (nultempe) plu yusta kam nun... [Cicero] [En la triesma citajo, on povas konfrontar 'quoniam e nam' en la sama frazo.] ---------- Noti. (1) Foye ula konjuncioni koordinala qualifikesas anke kom "kunjuntanta adverbi". "...konjuncioni koordinala...ad iti adjuntesas serio di vorti od expresuri, klasifikebla prefere kom adverbi... quale 'tamen, nam, konseque'..." [Dictionnaire de linguistique, Ed. Larousse.] Anke por la KGD-79, 'tamen' pleas la rolo di adverbo. (2) Hipotaxo*. Defino en la texto. A hypotaxis. F hypotaxe. G Hypotaxe. H hipotaxis. I ipotassi. R gipotaksis. (3) "Gramatikaleso" es koncepto teknikala dil linguistiko. Ul expresuro, konsistanta ek vorti dil propra linguo, es "gramatikala" se la parolanto/askoltanto rikonocas ol kom bone formacita segun la reguli dil propra linguo, surbaze dil propra "kompetenteso", aquirita e internigita dum la periodo di linguo-lernado. "Aceptebleso", da linguisto Noam Chomsky, es koncepto kelke plu ampla kam gramatikaleso. Ul expresuro es "aceptebla" se ol esas, ne nur gramatikala segun onua kompetenteso ("competence" teorio), ma anke konforma a la reguli dil reala uzado en la partikulara situesi e kuntexti ("performance" teorio). Omna ne-gramatikala expresuro es ne-aceptebla. Ma ne omna gramatikala expresuro es aceptebla: ol povas esar ne-aceptebla exemple pro ke tro longa o volutatra, o ne adequata a la psikologio dil parol/skribanto o dil askolt/lektanto. (4) Niuvo*: kompromiso inter A 'news' e 'nov-a'. [Forsan me parolos pri to altr-okazione.] (5) Parataxo*. Defino en la texto. (Foye 'parataxo' uzesas vice la hika 'asindeto'). A parataxis. F parataxe. G Parataxe. H parataxis. I paratassi. R parataksis. (6) +Kuriozajo: en la KGD-91, 'nam' es tranquile forigita a la gloso, ye pagin-fundo. (7) Asindeto*. Defino en la texto. A asyndeton. F asynd�te. G Asyndeton. H as�ndeton. I asindeto. R asindyeton, byessoiuziye. La maxim bela e famoza asyndeto* es Latina "veni, vidi, vici" (me venis, me vidis, me vinkis), da Caesar, +quu anuncis tale sua vinko sur Pharnaces rejo dil Pontus. (8) "La difero inter ta du partiklo-klasi [nam, pro ke] esas analoga ye ta qua existas inter nedependanta pronomo 'il' e la korespondanta dependanta pronomo 'qua'..."; Progreso IV-524. N.B. En la texto, me sequigas da * nova radiki; me preirigas da + existanta radiki, uzata da me kelke ne-formale. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1029 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84510 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2003 06:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Oct 2003 06:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 06:06:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Oct 2003 06:06:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:06:25 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sintaxo Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c39623$6e59b360$462148d9@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 477 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sro Carlo Nardini, Me tre dankas vua klarega expliko por mea dubito. Me nur povas studiar Ido per kursi explikita en lingui nacionala, e per vortari aden lingui nacionala. E ti kelkafoye falias neeviteble montrar la nuanci quin vu bone explikis en vua mesajo. Me questionas vu ka la gramatiki quin vu citas (Dyer, Persiko, edc.) esas lektebla en Interreto. Me nur trovabas la KGD. Parenteze, me anke dankas vua judiko pri mea Ido-skribo. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1030 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46273 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2003 07:33:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2003 07:33:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2003 07:33:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Oct 2003 07:33:23 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:33:21 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Glosario da Carlo Nardini Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2394 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar amiki, Me jus recevas "Progreso" no. 328 e remarkas kun intereso la gl= osario quan Carlo Nardini adjuntas a sua artiklo "Paradoxi di Probableso".= Me forte kredas ke se Ido vorto o radiko kun simila senco ja existas, ni = ne bezonas nova vorto. Komprenende certena teknikala vorti mustas havar Id= o tradukuro, posible internaciona. Tamen, me deziras diskutar la vorti qu= in Sro Nardini mencionas: 1. *evidenco. La angla-ido dicionario da Dyer d= onas evidenteso, evidentajo, ed anke atesto, pruvo. Me sentas ke nia lingu= o havas sata vorti. Evidenteso es la generala termino e furnisas `evident= ajo' o `pruvo' (teknikale e ciencale) "Atesto' furnisas `evidenteso' (leg= ale). La radiko es `evident-` ja en Ido. 2. *falacar, *falaca, *falaco. Ja= *okuras en Romana lingui e la verb- formo es utila. Ido (ed Esperanto) ha= vas `sofismo' e `sofisto'. Ka la senco es la sama? 3. *kai me sentas esa= r superflua. Ni povas emfazar `e' per la adjunteso di `ya', `pluse', e `pl= ue'. Kande on parolas, on emfazas la voco. 4. *kombinaciono e *permutacion= o es utila por la teknikala termini en matematiko ma por uzado ordinara ni= havas `kombin(ur)o' e `permut- (ad)o'. 5. *locus (latina), ma en Ido `*lok= uso' es sendubite utila teknikala vorto en biologio e matematiko. (Diferan= ta de `loko'). 6. *obvia. Me, quale anglaparolanto, sentas ke `evidenta' = suficas. Forsan existas mikra difero di senco, p.e. "Evidente, la frua viv= o di povreso nun facas avarulo"; (evidente =3D pro, e donas kauzo )." "Obv= ie, vu konocas la respondo por la problemo." (rapide venas a la mento). Tam= en altra existanta vorti en Ido es uzebla, p.e. "Klare la respondo=85.."; = "Pro la frua vivo=85."; "La respondo es tote kom-prenebla=85." Forsan e= n angla "obvious" es plu emfazala kam "evidenta". 7. *okurar es utila kande= la senco =3D on trovas. `Eventar' sugestas movado. 8. *populaciono semb= las utila teknikala vorto. 9. *quoniam es plu exakta kam `do', `pro ke', `n= am'. 10. *skopuo montras problemo por anglaparolanti. En "Lexiko di nova v= orti" da C. De Cock (1988) ni havas la vorto "emo" =3D finala punto vizata= (intencata). En angla, "scope" =3D extenso di intereso, di posibleso, di= kapableso; exakte la defino ke ni vidas por *skopuo. Posible, se ni uzas = Ido: `skopo' kun senco =3D A: scope, (*skopuo) ed `emo' =3D A: aim (punto= vizata), ni ne bezonas nova vorto. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1031 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93564 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 03:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2003 03:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 03:43:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.249] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Oct 2003 03:43:50 -0000 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:43:50 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Du dubiti linguala Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 665 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Del babilado en l'altra listi, me havas du dubiti linguala, pri qui me deziras questionar en ca forumo. L'unesma dubito relatas quale explikar en Ido la chanjo horala eventinta sundie en Europa. To esas, quale dicar H: "se atrasaron los relojes una hora". Kad "on retroduktis la horloji per un kloko" esus korekta? E mea duesma dubito esas kad existas vorto apta por la vorto H: personaje, F: personnage, A: character (en fiktivajo, ne kom vorto psikologiala). Exemple: Se Robin Williams laboris en la filmo "Popeye", ed il pleis ya Popeye, do Robin Williams esis l'aktoro, e Popeye esis la...? Me predankas vi amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1032 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 556 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2003 13:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Oct 2003 13:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.64) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 13:33:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:33:55 -0800 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:33:55 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Linguala questioni Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:33:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Oct 2003 13:33:55.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[4CE91940:01C39E21] From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Baggie Me ipsa tradukus "once upon a time" per: untempe. Nam ol vere signifikas: "at one time" = ye un tempo = untempe. Anke on darfas uzar: ultempe (ex. en mea artiklo 'La Mandelieri': "Napoleon ultempe dicis a Fontanes" - Napoleon once said to Fontanes). Pri vua altra questioni: "on the other hand" - altralatere "obviously" - evidente "default" - normo, normala (se vu intencas la komputorala termino, ex. "default settings"). Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "He salutes all parts of the sky and the earth where it is bright. He thinks the color of the amethysts of Aguelmous will be dark if it has rained in the valley of Zerekten. The eye wants to sleep, he says, but the head is no mattress." - Paul Bowles, A Hundred Camels in the Courtyard _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1033 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56450 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2003 12:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Oct 2003 12:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Oct 2003 12:40:50 -0000 Received: from azalia ([24.132.24.215]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.5.01.05.17 201-253-122-126-117-20021021) with SMTP id <20031031124048.UDRK3707.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:40:48 +0100 Message-ID: <00c301c39fac$7867dd90$d7188418@azalia> To: Cc: , "Idisto" Subject: Miriapodo Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:42:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "H. Stuifbergen" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info En la mesajo "Intertempe en..." me skribis pri la 'milionopedo'. Me ne povis trovar la Ido-nomo di ta insekto, e ye l' interreto me trovis adminime un Latina nomo. Tamen, pos pluse serchar l' interreto, me trovis plura nomi por ta insekto. Me questionas me ka forsan nia amiko Richard Stevenson (od altra experto) povas helpar ni pri la korekta nomo di ta insekto. Se me bone komprenas, "Blaniulus guttulatus", es familio di la blaniulidi ("blaniulidea"), apartenant al ordeno di la "Diplopoda". L' Angla nomo di ta insekto es "Milleped" e la Franca nomo es "Mille-patte". English-Ido donas a ni: (milleped) miriapodo. Do, me supozas ke l' insekto reptanta amasale en Skopje, nomesas Ide: miriapodo, ka ne? Quale diferas la "milopedo", "centopedo", "milionopedo", edc.? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1034 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 78721 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2003 22:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2003 22:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr1.sis.it) (217.72.32.21) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2003 22:02:31 -0000 Received: from nardinic [217.72.33.72] with smtp by fr1.sis.it with smtp (Smail-3.2.0.103 1998-Oct-9 #3 #3) id m1AGSCb-0043xAC; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:04:13 -0100 (GMT+1) Message-ID: <000501c3a190$f4216e20$482148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Subject: Kloko Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 23:30:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Carlo Nardini" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus > quale explikar en Ido la chanjo horala > eventinta sundie en Europa. To esas, quale dicar > H: "se atrasaron los relojes una hora". Kad "on retroduktis > la horloji per un kloko" esus korekta? E.A.R. Ne facila... Me donos _mea_ respondo (tote ne _la_ respondo). Ante omno me konatos* (1) klarigar ula koncepti, unesme a me ipsa, segun-kustume. Sequante Dante ("se preter-irar es impedata a ni, ni ritrovez nia traci ") (2), me retroiros e ridepartos de lo skribita da l'ancestri, e de ula koncepti fundamentala. HISTORIO DI KLOKO (3) Kloko/i adoptesis da l'Akademio (1911) pro preciza motivo e demando: evitar ul ambigueso, genitebla da la nura 'horo': nam, "lu departos pos du hori" povas signifikar sive "il departos pos restir 120 minuti", sive "il departos pos ke l'horlojo indikabos 2 hori". Per 'kloko' la du frazi divenas sen-ambigua: "lu departos pos du hori..." e "lu departos pos du kloki..." rispektive (KGD-99). Segun Couturat, "on adoptis explicite kloko, kloki nur por la konto ed enunco di la hori: kloko signifikas do propre: horo pasinta de l'antea noktomezo (o dimezo)... on ne darfas uzar ol kun la senco di tempo-punto (instanto) ; e konseque on devas ne dicar: "Qua kloko esas ?" ma "Qua tempo esas ?"..." [Couturat, Pro VII]. Me persone kredas, anke surbaze dil KGD-99, ke 'kloko' povas havar anke senco di tempo-instanto, e ke on darfas dicar "Qua kloko esas?" (cetere ca expresuro trovesas en omna Gramatiki). Me konjektas ke Couturat uzis la defino plu restriktiva por evitar mikra ambigueso, indikita da ula Idisti: se kloko signifikas un tempo-instanto, on ne povas uzar la pluralo kloki, pro ke la frazo "li arivis ye du kloki" povus signifikar, sive "li arivis kande l'horlojo indikis du", sive "li arivis ye du _diversa_ kloki" (exemple, il arivis kande l'horlojo indikis du, ed el arivis kande l'horlojo indikis tri). TEMPO SUNALA To es la tempo determinata astronomie da la +poziciono dil suno relate la loko dil observanto. Kande la centro dil suno intersekas la meridiano dil observanto (la suno es maxime alta en la cielo), la "lokala" sunala tempo (instanto) es jorno-mezo, od 12 kloki (4). "Sunala dio" es la tempo-intervalo bezonata da la suno por rivenar sur la sama meridiano en la cielo. Sunala 'horo' es la duadek-e-quarima (24-ima) parto dil averaja sunala dio (5). TEMPO STANDARA* (6) To es la tempo uzata praktike, pro konvenciono universala, en singla tempo-zono dil tero. Ib'esas 24 tempo-zoni dil tero, singlu larja de 15� longitude. Tra la centro di singla tempo-zono pasas la meridiano standara*, e singla tempo-zono havas konvencione la tempo korespondanta a ta meridiano. Du loki situita rispektive ye la estala e westala limiti di ul tempo-zono havas la sama tempo standara*, dum ke lia tempo sunala diferas per preske un horo. La mezo dil tempo-zono 'zero' trapasas Greenwich (Anglia) e koincidas kun la meridiano primara o meridiano di Greenwich, de 0� longitude. La tempo sunala ye la meridiano primara ("Greenwich mean time") konsideresas konvencione kom "tempo universala", e uzesas exemple en astronomio ed en navigado; ol funcionas kom bazo por determinar la tempo en la tota mondo. Departante de Greenwich, pasante de ul tempo-zono a la sucedanta, la tempo standara* augmentas de un horo vers-este, diminutas de un horo vers-weste. TEMPO LEGALA To es la tempo (diferanta de la tempo standara*) establisita per lego lokala, en certena lando/i, en certena sezoni dil yaro (generale en somero) (7). Generale la tempo legala equivalas la tempo standara* augmentita de un horo. HORO To es la tempo-intervalo, reprezentanta la duadek-e-quarima (24-ima) parto dil averaja dio sunala. On povas konsiderar 'horo' kom la mezur-unajo dil "TEMPO ASTRONOMIALA" (8). KLOKO To es singlu ek la 24 (od 12 x 2) tempo-punti, markizita varia-maniere (cifri, linei, soni...) en la horloji. La 24 kloki es separita l'unu de l'altru per un horo, departante de nokto-mezo. On povas konsiderar 'kloko' kom la mezur-unajo dil "TEMPO HORLOJALA", por tale dicar. ---------- Lo supera povas duktar a la respondo a la questiono da E.A.R. Quo eventas en la landi, qui adoptas la tempo legala, ye l'instanto dil chanjo? Evidente l'autoritato lokala ne havas povo sur la rotaco dil tero, e ne mem sur la konvencioni internaciona; ol nur havas povo sur l'horloji di sua civitani, t.e. ol nur povas modifikar la "tempo horlojala" mezurata per kloki. Do, se on su referas a l'horloji: - ye la komenco dil tempo somerala on igas l'horloji indikar la kloko sucedanta (exemple 3.00 vice 2.00), t.e. "on avancas l'horloji de un kloko"; - ye la fino dil tempo somerala on igas l'horloji indikar la kloko preiranta (exemple 2.00 vice 3.00), t.e. "on desavancas (tardigas) la horloji de un kloko". Se on su referas a la kloki: - ye la komenco dil tempo somerala "on augmentas la kloko de un" (3.00 vice 2.00); - ye la fino dil tempo somerala "on diminutas la kloko de un" (2.00 vice 3.00). Me kredas ke l'expresuro "on (des)avancas l'horloji de un kloko" es la maxim logikala. Tamen anke "on (des)avancas l'horloji de un horo" es probable admisebla, pro ke 'kloko' e 'horo' mezuras pos omno la sama quanteso di tempo (60 minuti). ---------- Koncerne la prepoziciono, me preferus "de un kloko", uzante 'de' kom prepoziciono di quanteso (KGD-72): longa de 3 metri, plulongigar ulo de 2 metri e.c. Tamen me kredas ke anke "per un kloko" es defensebla (ol trovesas en la vortaro da Dyer). Certe me ne uzus 'ye'. La frazo "on avancas l'horlojo ye du kloki" esus ambigua, povante anke signifikar ke "on avancas l'horlojo, kande du hori es pasinta pos nokto-mezo, t.e. kande l'horlojo indikas du kloki". Koncerne la verbo, (des)avancar, tardigar, retroduktar, retropozar...plura povas esar uzata, mea-opinione. ---------- (1) V. mea mesajo a Linguolisto 701, 12 Mayo 2002, "konatar*". (2) "...se 'l passar pi� oltre ci � negato, ritroviam le orme nostre...", Dante Alighieri - Divina Commedia - Inferno. (3) Ante l'adopto di 'kloko' esabis plura altra propozi: - uzo dil artiklo: lu departos pos la du - uzo dil ordinalo: lu departos pos la duesma horo - uzo di adverbo: lu departos pos du hore, lu departos pos du horloje, lu departos pos du kloke. (4) Olim, jorno-mezo esis la komenco dil dio (zero kloki). (5) La duro dil sunala dio varias dum la yaro, pro ke la veloceso* (9) dil tero, en sua elipsa (ne cirkla) orbito cirkum la suno, varias en la yaro, e pro ke la rotac-axo dil tero es inklinita de cirkum 23,5� relative la plano orbitala (ekliptiko). Pro to on parolas prefere pri "lokala AVERAJA sunala tempo", mezurata relative imaginala suno (AVERAJA suno), +quu jacas en la plano equatorala dil tero, e cirkum +quu la tero jiras kun konstanta veloceso*. Ta-maniere singla "AVERAJA sunala dio" havas sama duro. La difero inter aparanta e averaja sunala dio varias de 0 a 16 minuti; ol nomesas "equaciono dil tempo". [Parenteze, de l'inklino dil rotac-axo dil tero sur l'ekliptiko dependas anke la sezoni dil yaro]. (6) Standar.o* Ulo pre-determinata, da lego o kustumo, kom modelo, exemplo, regulo sequenda. A standard. F standard. G Standard. H �standar. I standard. R standart. (7) En Anglia on nomas la tempo legala "summer time", en USA "day-light saving time", en Germania "Sommerzeit" (tempo somerala). (8) Ciencisti uzas anke altra tempi: siderala* (10), atomala... (9) Veloc.a* Sinonimo di rapida, ma plu apta en la cienco, segun me. A speedy; speed, velocity. F rapide, v�loce (liter.); vitesse. G geschwind; Geschwindgkeit. H veloz; velocidad. P veloz; velocidade. I veloce; velocit�. R skorostnoy; skorost. L velox; velocitas. (10) Sideral.a* Stelala, astrala. Uzebla precipue en astronomio: absolute internaciona. A sidereal. F sid�ral. G siderisch. H sideral, sid�reo. I siderale, sidereo. R sidyerichyeskiy, zvyozdniy. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1035 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99383 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2003 22:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2003 22:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2003 22:42:53 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA2Mgl7i001694 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:12:47 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hA2MglDE001691 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:12:47 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:12:47 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: Linguolisto Subject: Re: [linguo] Kloko In-Reply-To: <000501c3a190$f4216e20$482148d9@nardinic> Message-ID: References: <000501c3a190$f4216e20$482148d9@nardinic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara Carlo, danko. Me nur, kom pendanto, volas dicar ke "h" sempre pronuncesas en Ido. Do, > arivis ye du _diversa_ kloki" (exemple, il arivis kande l'horlojo indikis > du, ed el arivis kande l'horlojo indikis tri). ne povas esar korekta Ido. Vicee, on skribez "la horlojo". Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson -- Qualio fardita (Turnix varia). La femino, poke plu granda kam la maskulo, facas la kurtezo, a pose serchas altra amorantuli, lasante singlakaze la maskula ucelo kovar la ovi e kreskigar la yuni. (Cayley, "What Bird is That?") From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1036 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74537 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2003 05:15:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2003 05:15:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 05:15:43 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA35FZ7i002025 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:45:35 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hA35FYkZ002022 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:45:35 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:45:34 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: Linguolisto Subject: Re: [linguo] Kloko In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <000501c3a190$f4216e20$482148d9@nardinic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2003-11-03 09:12 +1030, Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: > Kara Carlo, danko. Me nur, kom PEDANTO, volas dicar ke "h" sempre > pronuncesas en Ido. Do, > > > arivis ye du _diversa_ kloki" (exemple, il arivis kande l'horlojo indikis > > du, ed el arivis kande l'horlojo indikis tri). > > ne povas esar korekta Ido. Vicee, on skribez "la horlojo". > > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson -- Qualio fardita (Turnix varia). La femino, poke plu granda kam la maskulo, facas la kurtezo, a pose serchas altra amorantuli, lasante singlakaze la maskula ucelo kovar la ovi e kreskigar la yuni. (Cayley, "What Bird is That?") From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1037 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49760 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2003 06:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2003 06:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2003 06:52:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2003 06:52:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 06:52:08 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: re kloko Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1253 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar amiki, Ni mustas admirar la eruditeso di Carlo Nardini pro la komenti pri tempo e kloko. La historio di "kloko" es interesanta e sen-dubite Ido esforcas evitar ambigueso inter vorti kun la sama senco, p.e. inter avan ed ante, pos e dop. Tamen me sentas ke la selekto di "kloko" es desfortunoza e konfundanta, specale ad anglaparolanti. Me konjektas ke l'origino di "kloko" es A: o'clock (di la horlojo) e referas a la tempo qua horlojo montras. Ma en angla, "kloko" ne es "clock" (horlojo). Multa lingui uzas "horo" por amba tempo da horlojo e tempo qua duras. A: six o'clock (sis kloko) nur uzesas por kompleta hori. Anke, A: quarter past six (6.15) e A: quarter to seven (6.45) ne mencionas horo o horlojo. La BBC kelkatempe dicas "The time is now six hours, GMT" (La tempo esas nun sis hori, GMT) En F: six heures; e G: um sechs Uhr, e H: las seis (horos). Me sugestas ke la uzado di "horo" ne esas vere konfundita e forsan l'artiklo definita esas uzebla por horlojo-tempo, p.e. la sis (quale en hispana). Do "La treno foriras (ye) la sis (hori) e bezonas sis hori atingar Paris." (A: The train leaves at six and takes six hours to reach Paris.). Me kredas ke la kuntexto evitos miskompreno. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1038 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95386 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2003 08:16:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2003 08:16:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.108) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2003 08:16:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Nov 2003 08:16:07 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 08:16:03 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: re kloko Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2626 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Richard Stevenson skribis: > Ni mustas admirar la eruditeso di Carlo Nardini pro la komenti pri > tempo e kloko. Certe yes. L'opinioni di Dro. NARDINI esas sempre tre interesanta. E me volas profitar l'okaziono por agnoskar lo. > La historio di "kloko" es interesanta e sen-dubite Ido esforcas > evitar ambigueso inter vorti kun la sama senco, p.e. inter avan ed > ante, pos e dop. > Tamen me sentas ke la selekto di "kloko" es desfortunoza e > konfundanta, specale ad anglaparolanti. Me konjektas ke l'origino > di "kloko" es A: o'clock (di la horlojo) e referas a la tempo qua > horlojo montras. Ma en angla, "kloko" ne es "clock" (horlojo). > Multa lingui uzas "horo" por amba tempo da horlojo e tempo qua > duras. > A: six o'clock (sis kloko) nur uzesas por kompleta hori. Anke, A: > quarter past six (6.15) e A: quarter to seven (6.45) ne mencionas > horo o horlojo. > La BBC kelkatempe dicas "The time is now six hours, GMT" (La tempo > esas nun sis hori, GMT) > En F: six heures; e G: um sechs Uhr, e H: las seis (horos). > Me sugestas ke la uzado di "horo" ne esas vere konfundita e forsan > l'artiklo definita esas uzebla por horlojo-tempo, p.e. la sis (quale > en hispana). Do "La treno foriras (ye) la sis (hori) e bezonas sis > hori atingar Paris." (A: The train leaves at six and takes six > hours to reach Paris.). Me kredas ke la kuntexto evitos miskompreno. > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. Me prenas vua exemplo pri la treno e me dicas pri ta voyajo: A: "Those were the six longest hours in my life. During the first two hours, a baby just wouldn't stop crying, and during the following four hours, the passengers next to me kept chattering in a very loud voice. I simply couldn't sleep for the six hours." Quale vu evitus en tala frazo ke la "two, four, six hours" divenez "two, four, six o'clock", se ne per vorti diferanta por amba koncepti? Me ne opinionas pri la selekto dil vorti "kloko" e "horo", ma me ya pensas ke la du idei meritas vorti diferanta. Se la nuna selekto esas ya nekonvenanta, forsan ni povas uzar la vorto "horo" por la nuna ideo di "kloko" e nomizar la ideo quan ni nur nomas "horo" segun la vorto Germana: *stund.o: "Esas du hori, nun". "La voyajo duris dum du *stundi". Ton me ne savas. Me nule defendas ta vorti, ma me ya pensas ke la du idei esas ya diferanta e facile konfundigebla, e devas do havar nomi diferanta. Parenteze, regretinde me ne havas la mento matematikema di Dro. Carlo NARDINI, do me ne komprenas pro quo ne eventas pri la vorto "minuto" la sama konfuzo kam pri la vorti "horo" e "kloko". Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1039 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27240 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2003 21:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2003 21:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2003 21:32:53 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hA9LWrsc013899 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:32:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:22:05 -0500 Subject: [linguo] re kloko Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200311091632_MC3-1-5915-8BD3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Richard, Semblas a me ke hike la angla "to reach" ne esas simple infinitivo. Esus plu apta tradukar ol per "por atingar" o "por atingo di". Exemple: "la treno bezonas atingar Paris" (hike "atingar Paris" esas la objekto) ma "la treno bezonas sis hori por la voyajo a Paris" e "la treno bezonas sis hori por atingar Paris" (hike "sis hori" esas la objekto, ed "atingar Paris" ne povas anke esar la objekto). Robert C. >Do "La treno foriras (ye) la sis (hori) e bezonas sis hori atingar Paris." (A: The train leaves at six and takes six hours to reach Paris.). Me kredas ke la kuntexto evitos miskompreno. Amikale, Richard Stevenson.< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1040 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88183 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2003 02:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2003 02:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.104) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 02:13:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2003 02:12:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:12:19 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Pri u*/ud*. Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1150 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Fernando TEJON" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara samforumani Me jus lektis mesajo da Adri=E1n Pastrana. Ilu skribis ke= lu deziros ke ula personi sendez "la postala adreso ed/od la retala adres= o" a lu por certena afero. Ta mesajo facis a me pensar kelke... Lektez ca= frazo: "La puero deziras kuko e/o lakto" En ta frazo onu uzas "ed/od" (e= /o). To esas "kompozita" koordinal konjunciono. La frazo signifikas ke l= a puero deziras adminime un kozo dil duo, ma lu ne deziras "nula kozo". S= tranje ta utila konjunciono unvorte ne existas en Ido (ka me eroras pri to= ?). Pro quo? Kad onu povas skribar la frazo altramaniere e/o plu facile? = Anke en la Hispana ta konjunciono mankas, quale en Ido, ed on uzas "y/o" (= conjunci=F3n copulativo-disyuntiva). Me nulon deziros chanjar sen la aprob= o dil ULI, ma en ta forumo onu darfas parolar pri linguo. Do me facas lo. = Kad onu povus uzar takaze exemple u*/ud*? Videz: "La puero deziras kuko u= * lakto" La sono dil izolita u ne plezas multe a me. Kad existas ta konju= nciono unvorte en ula linguo? Forsan me naive questionas pri konjunciono q= ua vere existas. Me gratitudos via komenti e/o kritiki. Amikale Fernando= TEJON -------------- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1041 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59337 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2003 06:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2003 06:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 06:00:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.251] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2003 06:00:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 06:00:53 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Pri u*/ud*. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2379 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Fernando TEJON, vu skribis: > Kara samforumani > Me jus lektis mesajo = da Adri=E1n Pastrana. Ilu skribis ke lu deziros ke > ula personi sendez "= la postala adreso ed/od la retala adreso" a lu > por certena afero. Ta mes= ajo facis a me pensar kelke... > > Lektez ca frazo: > "La puero deziras ku= ko e/o lakto" > > En ta frazo onu uzas "ed/od" (e/o). To esas "kompozita" = koordinal > konjunciono. > La frazo signifikas ke la puero deziras admini= me un kozo dil duo, ma > lu ne deziras "nula kozo". > > Stranje ta utila= konjunciono unvorte ne existas en Ido (ka me eroras > pri to?). Pro quo?= Kad onu povas skribar la frazo altramaniere e/o > plu facile? > > Anke e= n la Hispana ta konjunciono mankas, quale en Ido, ed on > uzas "y/o" (conj= unci=F3n copulativo-disyuntiva). Parenteze, la certen afero propozata da A= dri=E1n PASTRANA es tre konsiderinda. Il volas krear reto di interchanjo p= ostala en Ido. On devas registragar su por havar amiko postala, kun qua in= tersendar letri en ido. Tre interesanta. Pri *u/*ud, e segun me savas, la= konjunciono "o" ne esas exkluziva, tale ke "Facez A o B" indikas: - "Fa= cez A" (sendez postal adreso), o - "Facez B" (sendez elk-adreso) o - "Fac= ez A e B" (sendez ambe postal ed elk-adreso). Fakte la konjunciono qua ma= nkas, takaze esas olta qua indikus "Facez A o facez B, ma NE facez A ED B.= " (Sendez postal adreso od elk- adreso, ma ne sendez amba kozi). Adri=E1n = PASTRANA povus simple skribir: "Sendez la postal adreso o l'elk-adreso". E= nulu devus konsiderir su koaktata selektar un del du. > Me nulon deziros = chanjar sen la aprobo dil ULI, ma en ta forumo onu > darfas parolar pri li= nguo. Do me facas lo. > Kad onu povus uzar takaze exemple u*/ud*? Videz: > = "La puero deziras kuko u* lakto" > La sono dil izolita u ne plezas multe a = me. Kad existas ta > konjunciono unvorte en ula linguo? > Forsan me naive = questionas pri konjunciono qua vere existas. Me > gratitudos via komenti e= /o kritiki. Me lektis ulaloke ke on propozis *u kom artiklo nedeterminita = (H: un (os), una(s) (kontraste a "ning-=FAn/unos, ninguna(s)", ne kontraste= a "dos, tres..."); A: a(n), some). Ta vorto esas presente omisata en Ido= . Pluse se la konjunciono mankanta esas la "o exkluziva" (A o B, ma ne A = e B) kad on ne povas forsan uzar la vorto matematikala *xor, qua havas, se= gun me kredas, tala uzado? Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1042 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88852 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2003 07:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2003 07:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 07:40:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2003 07:40:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:40:20 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: re kloko ed altra sugesti Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 987 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert ed amiki, Danko por la komenti pri l'objekto en mea mesajo. Yen esas du sugesti: (1) Quankam Ido preske abolisesas la ofte nenecesa akuzativo, me sentas ke la akordo di la relativa pronomo (qua, quan e.c) esos plu simpla se ni uzus pozeso vice dezinenco. Ta sistemo *okuras en West-europala lingui. Komprenende on bezonas sucio. Ex: "Me vidas la viro qua me konocas." ( `qua' referas a `viro' pro ke li vicinesas),. Ma "Me vidas la viro kun nova chapelo quan me konocas" (`quan' referas a `viro' ma esas separata per frazeto). En angla, la akuzativo `whom' (quan) nun lente desaparas. (2) La regulo pri la tempo di verbi esas anke nekustumala por West- europala lingui. Me remarkas en Ido de Anglia, Germania e Francia ke ofte se la ago esas pasinta, la verbi anke havas pasinta formo. La nuntempa regulo esas quale Esperanto: pos on agnoskas ke la ago esas pasinta, la sequanta verbi havas prezenta formo. Semblas nenecesa kompliko. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1043 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80392 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2003 11:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2003 11:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2003 11:36:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.143] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Nov 2003 11:36:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:12 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Pri u*/ud*. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3037 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Fernando TEJON" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara Eduardo En la Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza (Konjuncioni, 107) onu lekt= as: od, o =3D D. oder; E. or; F.ou, ou bien; I. o, od; S (hispana) o, u. = En Hispana vortaro onu lektas pri "o": "sirve para indicar exclusi=F3n o a= lternativa entre las oraciones o t=E9rminos que relaciona" (on uzas por in= dikar excluzo od alterno inter la frazi o vorti relatita). Do o/od poseda= s senco exkluzival, ka ne? Amikale Fernando TEJON --------------- --- In= linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Eduardo A. Rodi" wrote: > K= ara Fernando TEJON, vu skribis: > > Kara samforumani > > Me jus lektis mesa= jo da Adri=E1n Pastrana. Ilu skribis ke lu deziros > ke > > ula personi = sendez "la postala adreso ed/od la retala adreso" a lu > > por certena af= ero. Ta mesajo facis a me pensar kelke... > > > > Lektez ca frazo: > > "La= puero deziras kuko e/o lakto" > > > > En ta frazo onu uzas "ed/od" (e/o).= To esas "kompozita" koordinal > > konjunciono. > > La frazo signifikas k= e la puero deziras adminime un kozo dil duo, > ma > > lu ne deziras "nula= kozo". > > > > Stranje ta utila konjunciono unvorte ne existas en Ido (ka= me > eroras > > pri to?). Pro quo? Kad onu povas skribar la frazo altram= aniere e/o > > plu facile? > > > > Anke en la Hispana ta konjunciono man= kas, quale en Ido, ed on > > uzas "y/o" (conjunci=F3n copulativo-disyuntiv= a). > > Parenteze, la certen afero propozata da Adri=E1n PASTRANA es tre = > konsiderinda. Il volas krear reto di interchanjo postala en Ido. On > de= vas registragar su por havar amiko postala, kun qua intersendar > letri en= ido. Tre interesanta. > > Pri *u/*ud, e segun me savas, la konjunciono "o= " ne esas exkluziva, > tale ke "Facez A o B" indikas: > > - "Facez A" (s= endez postal adreso), o > - "Facez B" (sendez elk-adreso) o > - "Facez A = e B" (sendez ambe postal ed elk-adreso). > > Fakte la konjunciono qua man= kas, takaze esas olta qua indikus "Facez > A o facez B, ma NE facez A ED = B." (Sendez postal adreso od elk- > adreso, ma ne sendez amba kozi). > > A= dri=E1n PASTRANA povus simple skribir: "Sendez la postal adreso o > l'elk-= adreso". E nulu devus konsiderir su koaktata selektar un del du. > > > Me= nulon deziros chanjar sen la aprobo dil ULI, ma en ta forumo onu > > dar= fas parolar pri linguo. Do me facas lo. > > Kad onu povus uzar takaze exemp= le u*/ud*? Videz: > > "La puero deziras kuko u* lakto" > > La sono dil izol= ita u ne plezas multe a me. Kad existas ta > > konjunciono unvorte en ula = linguo? > > Forsan me naive questionas pri konjunciono qua vere existas. Me= > > gratitudos via komenti e/o kritiki. > > Me lektis ulaloke ke on prop= ozis *u kom artiklo nedeterminita (H: un > (os), una(s) (kontraste a "ning-= =FAn/unos, ninguna(s)", ne kontraste > a "dos, tres..."); A: a(n), some). = Ta vorto esas presente omisata en > Ido. > > Pluse se la konjunciono man= kanta esas la "o exkluziva" (A o B, ma ne > A e B) kad on ne povas forsan= uzar la vorto matematikala *xor, qua > havas, segun me kredas, tala uzado= ? > > Amikale, > > Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1044 Return-Path: X-Sender: cheal@hotpop.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30488 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2003 00:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2003 00:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 00:27:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Nov 2003 00:27:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:27:18 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sugesto : Kloko=>Klokar Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 826 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "filipklutie" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=156619618 X-Yahoo-Profile: filipklutie Kara linguolistani, Me sugestas co pos lektir La R'odi e kloko? + da Bebson Y. TAKATA http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idoskolo/message/1560 Me ya pensas ke to quon dicesis pri sekundi e minuti esas vera. Pluse, semblas ke esas anke problemo pri dati. Prezente on uzas exemple "Ye la duesma (di) marto" "ye" signifikas nulo determinata. Kad existas altra facono dicar dato? Me sugestas ke ni uzez "klokas", quale exemple "Klokas 3 monati, 2 dii, dek hori e tri minuti [e 5 sekundi, etc] de 2003" Co semblas a me la maxim logikoza facono dicar kloko/dato. Forsan ni devus adjuntar vorto ante 2003 (sive yaro o nova vorto?). Ni obtenus "Klokas dek hori e tri minuti." o "Klokas dek e tri." (abreviata formo) en omnadiala parolado. Me konjektas ke ja ulo sugestesis pri co... ube lektar ol? Se no, quon vi pensas pri ca sugesto? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1045 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23914 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2003 11:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2003 11:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 11:48:32 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hADBmOu5000875 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:18:24 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hADBmNj0000872 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:18:23 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:18:23 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2003-11-12 07:40 -0000, richsteven2000 skribis: > Kara Robert ed amiki, > Danko por la komenti pri l'objekto en mea mesajo. Yen esas du > sugesti: > (1) Quankam Ido preske abolisesas la ofte nenecesa akuzativo, me > sentas ke la akordo di la relativa pronomo (qua, quan e.c) > esos plu simpla se ni uzus pozeso vice dezinenco. Ta sistemo *okuras > en West-europala lingui. Komprenende on bezonas sucio. > Ex: "Me vidas la viro qua me konocas." ( `qua' referas a `viro' pro > ke li vicinesas),. Ma "Me vidas la viro kun nova chapelo quan me Kara Richard, Mem quankam oli esas kuna, semblas a me ke vua frazo esas ambigua. Ta du Angla frazi diferas: (a) I see the man who me knows. (Me vidas la viro qua me[n] konocas.) (b) I see the man whom I know. (Me vidas la viro quan me konocas.) Se me ne eroras, vua frazo esas (a), ma vua intenco esas (b). Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson -- Qualio fardita (Turnix varia). La femino, poke plu granda kam la maskulo, facas la kurtezo, a pose serchas altra amorantuli, lasante singlakaze la maskula ucelo kovar la ovi e kreskigar la yuni. (Cayley, "What Bird is That?") From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1046 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20519 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2003 06:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2003 06:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2003 06:06:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.180] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2003 06:06:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:06:49 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Pri u*/ud*. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1124 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Fernando TEJON skribis: > Kara Eduardo > En la Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza = (Konjuncioni, 107) onu lektas: > od, o =3D D. oder; E. or; F.ou, ou bien; I= . o, od; S (hispana) o, u. > En Hispana vortaro onu lektas pri "o": > "sirv= e para indicar exclusi=F3n o alternativa entre las oraciones o > t=E9rmino= s que relaciona" (on uzas por indikar excluzo od alterno inter la frazi o = vorti relatita). > Do o/od posedas senco exkluzival, ka ne? > Amikale > Fer= nando TEJON Kara Fernando, Me tote ne deziras divenigar ta forumo ye foru= mo pri la Hispana. Tamen mea komento antea pri la naturo neexkluziva di "o= " konsequis de decido dil Rejal Akademio Hispana(1) pri la sama konjuncion= o en la Hispana. Segun olu, "o" ya ne esas exkluziva, e do, en la Hispana,= dicar "y/o" esas nekorektajo. Kompreneble, me eroris, pro ke ne importas= hike quale funcionas la konjunciono en la Hispana ma quale olu funcionas = en Ido. E pri to me ne povas parolar, e devas vicee audar ti qui savas. A= mikale, Eduardo A. RODI (1) Kaze ke ulu ne konocas olu, la "Real Academia= Espa=F1ola" esas institucuro qua regulizas la uzo di la linguo Hispana. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1047 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37013 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2003 06:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2003 06:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2003 06:12:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.123] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2003 06:12:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:12:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Intono Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 513 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Hodie me esas kelkete skribema e demandema. Me dezirus sav= ar kad existas en Interreto ula texto pri la intono en Ido. Kaze ke me mi= sselektis la vorto "intono", me intencas dicar H: entonaci=F3n, A: intonat= ion. Do, la melodio dil frazi dum ke on parolas en Ido. Kad existas reguli= , o ka singlu darfas uzar la melodii di sua linguo? Me bezonas ta informo = pro ke on questionis a me pri posibla ambiguajo en Ido qua esus facile sol= vebla per la intono. Vin predankas amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1048 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6427 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2003 22:18:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2003 22:18:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.131) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2003 22:18:15 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2aa.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hAEMIFF7008985 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:18:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:16:29 -0500 Subject: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200311141718_MC3-1-5A57-C632@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Richard, Yen ula komenti: (1a) Vu skribas "Quankam Ido preske abolisesas la ofte nenecesa akuzativo, ..." ma supozeble vu intencas: "Quankam Ido preske abolisas la ofte nenecesa akuzativo, ...". Me esperas ke Ido ne abolisesas! (1b) En "Me konocas la viro qua me vidas", ka la viro vidas me o ka me vidas la viro? Sen uzo di "qua" o "quan" on ne povas savar od adminime esar certa. En la angla esas multe min importanta chanjar "who" (qua) a "whom" (quan) PRO KE en la angla on chanjas "I" a "me", DUM KE en Ido "me" ne chanjas. On mustas chanjar ulo por indikar kambio di subjekto ed objekto. Se on ne volas chanjar inter du formi di "me", on mustas chanjar inter du formi di "qua". (2) To qua semblas a vu esar komplikajo forsan esas simpla por parolanti di ula lingui en qua la regulo di Ido esas naturala, e to qua semblas por vu esar simpla forsan esas komplikajo por parolanti di ula altra lingui. Forsan ula membro di nia forumo povas informar ni plu plene pri la lingui qui uzas un metodo e la lingui qui uzas altra metodo. Robert C. P.S. Vu uzas, quale facas ula altra personi, la grava diakritiko ( ` ) quale unesma di paro de cito-hoki. Me rekomendas ad omni ne tale uzar ol. Ne tante importas en kurta mesajo, ma ol esas mala kustumo, ed en artiklo por imprimo ol esus kauzo di problemi tipografala. Mem ye la *skrino ol povas aspektar tre stranja. ________________ >Kara Robert ed amiki, Danko por la komenti pri l'objekto en mea mesajo. Yen esas du sugesti: (1) Quankam Ido preske abolisesas la ofte nenecesa akuzativo, me sentas ke la akordo di la relativa pronomo (qua, quan e.c) esos plu simpla se ni uzus pozeso vice dezinenco. Ta sistemo *okuras en West-europala lingui. Komprenende on bezonas sucio. Ex: "Me vidas la viro qua me konocas." ( `qua' referas a `viro' pro ke li vicinesas),. Ma "Me vidas la viro kun nova chapelo quan me konocas" (`quan' referas a `viro' ma esas separata per frazeto). En angla, la akuzativo `whom' (quan) nun lente desaparas. (2) La regulo pri la tempo di verbi esas anke nekustumala por West- europala lingui. Me remarkas en Ido de Anglia, Germania e Francia ke ofte se la ago esas pasinta, la verbi anke havas pasinta formo. La nuntempa regulo esas quale Esperanto: pos on agnoskas ke la ago esas pasinta, la sequanta verbi havas prezenta formo. Semblas nenecesa kompliko. Amikale, Richard Stevenson.< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1049 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74155 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2003 01:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2003 01:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2003 01:09:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.138] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Nov 2003 01:09:20 -0000 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:09:20 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: re kloko es altra sugesti Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 398 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Michael, Desfortunoze me ne klarigas mea intenco kande me skribas: "Me vidas la viro qua me konocas". Ta esas nekorekta Ido ma montras l'efekto ke pro ke "viro" esas apud "qua" on ne bezonas l'akuzativo formo. Komprenende on mustas skribar "Me vidas la viro quan me konocas". Me sentas ke se vorto esus apud la relativa pronomo, on ne bezonas kazala akordo. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1050 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79052 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2003 01:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2003 01:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2003 01:30:11 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF1Tq5m000717 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:52 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hAF1TqCq000714 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:52 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:59:52 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Subject: Re: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti In-Reply-To: <200311141718_MC3-1-5A57-C632@compuserve.com> Message-ID: References: <200311141718_MC3-1-5A57-C632@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara Robert, > P.S. Vu uzas, quale facas ula altra personi, la grava diakritiko ( ` ) > quale unesma di paro de cito-hoki. Me rekomendas ad omni ne tale uzar ol. > Ne tante importas en kurta mesajo, ma ol esas mala kustumo, ed en artiklo > por imprimo ol esus kauzo di problemi tipografala. Mem ye la *skrino ol > povas aspektar tre stranja. > (De Richard) > konocas" (`quan' referas a `viro' ma esas separata per frazeto). En Lo relatas nur ula komputorala sistemi, ed ula signari (A. "character sets"). Nula metode on povas aparigar la unesma cito-hoko sen la "`" klavo, ecepte kaze ke la partikulara komputorala programo volas komprenar la unesma ek du "'" kom to. Do, vu esas justa pri la programo "Microsoft Word", ma, se on konsideras Anglalingua klavari, vu ne esas justa generale. Segun me, tote juste Richard tushis "`". Pri artikili por imprimo, la redakero darfas impozar reguli. Ma me rekomendas ne facez lo sen grava pensado pri omna metodi. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson -- Qualio fardita (Turnix varia). La femino, poke plu granda kam la maskulo, facas la kurtezo, a pose serchas altra amorantuli, lasante singlakaze la maskula ucelo kovar la ovi e kreskigar la yuni. (Cayley, "What Bird is That?") From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1051 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80400 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2003 02:28:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2003 02:28:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2003 02:28:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Nov 2003 02:28:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 02:28:58 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: re kloko ed altra sugesti Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 971 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert, Danko por vua helpema komenti nam me agnoskas ke Ido deziras exakteso. Se ni uzus vortordino e pozeso, `me konocas la viro qua me vidas ` havas diferanta senco de `me konocas la viro qua vidas me.' o mem `me konocas la viro qua men vidas'. Komprenende se Ido fidas a vortordino e pozeso, existas tempope certena ambigueso, problemo on kelkatempe trovas en angla. Do, me asentas, Ido uzas 'qua' e `quan'. Tamen me konjektas ke se Ido atingus plu granda acepteso, specale per parolado, forsan pozeso divenos nova uzado. Exkuzez me por la stranja simboli qui, quale Michael explikas, es pro la diversa klavari en la mondo. Australia e N.Z. uzas la Usala klavaro ma en Britania la klavaro mustas havar placo por la `pound' signo ed altra klavi anke movas. Kande me esis docisto en Anglia ni mustis subisar desfacila tasko chanjar MSDOS por ke ol rikonocez la angla klavaro. Hodie, me opinionas ke la tasko es plu facila. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1052 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@nefkom.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5583 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2003 09:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2003 09:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO epz01.nefonline.de) (212.204.66.1) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Nov 2003 09:57:54 -0000 Received: from privatdesktop (DSL01.212.114.239.82.NEFkom.net [212.114.239.82]) by epz01.nefonline.de (NEFkom Mailservice) with SMTP id hAH9vdg18864; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:57:39 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c3acf1$3cbe5bf0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Jennny" , "G�nter Schlemminger" , "Manfred Welper" , "Manfred Magin" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Idoskolo" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" Subject: Mea operaco Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:57:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Frank Kasper" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=37097669 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! Finfine me povos informar vi, ke me quik pos sendo di ca= mesajo enhospitaligos la triersma (ed espereble lasta) foyo a la neurokiru= rgiala hospitalo en Erlangen. Morge eventos la necesa operaco. Me itere ak= tivigos la telefonnumero (0049)(0) 9131 8550092, pos ke me itere povos liv= ar la lito. Me nun kordialege salutas vi omna e deziras a vi omna omno bon= a! Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1053 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2945 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2003 21:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2003 21:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.131) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2003 21:36:48 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2aa.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hAILal3Y012543 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:36:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:31:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200311181632_MC3-1-5AF2-6378@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Michael, Me ne pensis pri Microsoft Word ma Windows (ed anke DOS) generale. En la simbolaro ASCII (til 127), uzata normale da Windows e DOS, duopla cito-hoko havas numero 34, ed unopa cito-hoko / apostrofo havas numero 44; la simbolo ` (ye mea klavaro ol siruesas sinistre de la klavo por 1) korespondas a numero 96. En la simbolaro ANSI (numeri til 255), uzata normale da Windows, esas specala simboli tipografala qui ne trovesas ye normala klavaro ma qui esas obtenebla altramaniere: komencanta e finanta unopla cito-hoki (numeri 145 e 146), e komencanta e finanta duopla cito-hoki (numeri 147 e 148). Ula programi povas automate chanjar la ordinara cito-hoki (mashin-skribala, ASCII), qui esas trovebla ye normala klavaro (' e ") al formi tipografala od imprimala. (Microsoft Word povas facar to, ma ol ne sempre agas apte e kelkfoye mischanjas unopla cito-hoko kande ol esas fakte apostrofo!) Uzo di simbolo 96, qua esas nek apostrofo, nek cito-hoko, vice simbolo 44 (o vice simbolo 145) esas eroro qua tendencas donar problemi. Robert C. ____________ >Kara Robert, > P.S. Vu uzas, quale facas ula altra personi, la grava diakritiko ( ` ) > quale unesma di paro de cito-hoki. Me rekomendas ad omni ne tale uzar ol. > Ne tante importas en kurta mesajo, ma ol esas mala kustumo, ed en artiklo > por imprimo ol esus kauzo di problemi tipografala. Mem ye la *skrino ol > povas aspektar tre stranja. > (De Richard) > konocas" (`quan' referas a `viro' ma esas separata per frazeto). En Lo relatas nur ula komputorala sistemi, ed ula signari (A. "character sets"). Nula metode on povas aparigar la unesma cito-hoko sen la "`" klavo, ecepte kaze ke la partikulara komputorala programo volas komprenar la unesma ek du "'" kom to. Do, vu esas justa pri la programo "Microsoft Word", ma, se on konsideras Anglalingua klavari, vu ne esas justa generale. Segun me, tote juste Richard tushis "`". Pri artikili por imprimo, la redakero darfas impozar reguli. Ma me rekomendas ne facez lo sen grava pensado pri omna metodi. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1054 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27621 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2003 01:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Nov 2003 01:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Nov 2003 01:18:11 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAM1HEpZ000880 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:47:14 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hAM1HDQj000877 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:47:13 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:47:13 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Subject: Re: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti In-Reply-To: <200311181632_MC3-1-5AF2-6378@compuserve.com> Message-ID: References: <200311181632_MC3-1-5AF2-6378@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2003-11-18 16:31 -0500, R.B. Carnaghan skribis: multe. E pose, lu adjuntis bloke mea mesajo. Pro quo ta neutila metodo? Nula tala normo existas. Do, pro quo? > Kara Michael, > > Me ne pensis pri Microsoft Word ma Windows (ed anke DOS) generale. Do, supere, citez la kuntexto a qua vu respondas. Pro quo, nun, me, e pro quo altra lekteri en la listo, mustas serchar tra la mesajo, trovar ula menciono da me pri "Microsoft" ye la fundo, serchinte mea longa mesajo, memorar la kuntexto, tenar omna to en la mento, retrovenar hike ed itere lektar vua skribajo? E, kande vu respondas ad ula altra frazo da me, pro quo on facez lo itere? Pozez la frazi single super la respondi. Se vua e-posto programo ne permisas lo, obtenez programo korekta por la Inter-ret, exemple, Pegasus o PC-Pine, omna ek qui on povas obtenar gratuite de la Inter-ret. > En la simbolaro ASCII (til 127), uzata normale da Windows e DOS, duopla Pro quo me irgamaniere suciez pri "Windows e DOS" od irgo uzata normale da li? > cito-hoko havas numero 34, ed unopa cito-hoko / apostrofo havas numero 44; > la simbolo ` (ye mea klavaro ol siruesas sinistre de la klavo por 1) > korespondas a numero 96. > > En la simbolaro ANSI (numeri til 255), uzata normale da Windows, esas Pro quo me irgamaniere suciez pri "Windows"? > specala simboli tipografala qui ne trovesas ye normala klavaro ma qui esas > obtenebla altramaniere: komencanta e finanta unopla cito-hoki (numeri 145 e > 146), e komencanta e finanta duopla cito-hoki (numeri 147 e 148). > > Ula programi povas automate chanjar la ordinara cito-hoki (mashin-skribala, Li ne esas "la ordininara cito-hoki". Quale li esas plu legitima kam "`"? Tala konvencioni esas nur konvenanta aranji, ne aferi por opiniono pri lo etika. > ASCII), qui esas trovebla ye normala klavaro (' e ") al formi tipografala > od imprimala. (Microsoft Word povas facar to, ma ol ne sempre agas apte e > kelkfoye mischanjas unopla cito-hoko kande ol esas fakte apostrofo!) Me nur uzas Emacs e TeX. Ti sempre agas apte. Do, se me mashin-skribas Erd\H os klamis a M\"uller, ``Th\'er\`se esas nud' e volas gambolar kun ni!'' me obtenas korekte la Hungariana *inflexo ("Umlaut"), la Germana *inflexo, komencanta duopla cito-hoki tipografala, e-akuta, e-grava, apostrofo tipografala, e finanta duopla cito-hoki tipografala. > Uzo di simbolo 96, qua esas nek apostrofo, nek cito-hoko, vice simbolo 44 > (o vice simbolo 145) esas eroro qua tendencas donar problemi. En la Angla on rare bezonas lo nek apostrofo nek cito-hoko. Do, kompreneble, on uzas la existanta klavo qua produktas "`" por signifikar la komencanta cito-hoko. Pro to, TeX komprenas "`" kom to, e nur desfacile on altree obtenas ol. On mustas uzar "`". Lo ne esas afero pri lo etika o korekta. Vu skribas pri simbolo 96 qua signifikas "`", e to esas justa en ASCII; ma la klavo portanta la signo "`" ne necese produktas kodexo 96. Lo relatas la *molvaro. Redakteri povas automate e facile remplasar "`" da altro tra dokumento komputorala. Do, ne necese on kontrolez o koaktez skriberi pri lo. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson -- Qualio fardita (Turnix varia). La femino, poke plu granda kam la maskulo, facas la kurtezo, a pose serchas altra amorantuli, lasante singlakaze la maskula ucelo kovar la ovi e kreskigar la yuni. (Cayley, "What Bird is That?") From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1055 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13489 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2003 20:58:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2003 20:58:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2003 20:58:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 7194 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2003 20:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Nov 2003 20:55:13 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c3b2cd$8ee94d40$886bdc51@landloic> To: , , , , Subject: Nova franca interreto-*sito Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:56:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara amiki, Me informas vu ke la interreto-*sito www.ido-france.org dil as= ociataro "Ido-France" esas nun vizitebla e dankas Jean Martignon por acepta= bis la publiko di sua Diala Jurnaleto. Me esperas ke ol esos utila por prog= resigar l'Ido en francia ma anke en francparolanta landi. Me aceptas omna = kritiko o sugesto por plubonigar ca nova *sito e dankas vu de ante. Bona s= emano ad omni e plu partikulare a Frank plena e rapida risanesko. Lo=EFk [= Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1056 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32925 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2003 23:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2003 23:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.131) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2003 23:18:56 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2aa.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hAONItMe027330 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:18:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:03:47 -0500 Subject: Re: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200311241804_MC3-1-5C37-AF90@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Michael, Me skribis: >> En la simbolaro ASCII (til 127), uzata normale da Windows e DOS, duopla<< Vu respondis: >Pro quo me irgamaniere suciez pri "Windows e DOS" od irgo uzata normale da li?< Nur pro ke probable maxim multa de nia lektanti uzas Windows (ed uli forsan uzis DOS antee). Ka mea supozo (yes, esas nur supozo) esas eroro? Me skribis: >> specala simboli tipografala qui ne trovesas ye normala klavaro ma qui esas >> obtenebla altramaniere: komencanta e finanta unopla cito-hoki (numeri 145 e >> 146), e komencanta e finanta duopla cito-hoki (numeri 147 e 148). >> >> Ula programi povas automate chanjar la ordinara cito-hoki (mashin-skribala,<< Vu respondis: >Li ne esas "la ordininara cito-hoki". Quale li esas plu legitima kam "`"? Tala konvencioni esas nur konvenanta aranji, ne aferi por opiniono pri lo etika.< Me ne mencionis irga etikala aspekto, ma nur la situeso praktikala qua koncernas uzanti di DOS e Windows. Me skribis: >> ASCII), qui esas trovebla ye normala klavaro (' e ") al formi tipografala >> od imprimala. (Microsoft Word povas facar to, ma ol ne sempre agas apte e >> kelkfoye mischanjas unopla cito-hoko kande ol esas fakte apostrofo!)<< Vu respondis: >Me nur uzas Emacs e TeX. Ti sempre agas apte. Do, se me mashin-skribas Erd\H os klamis a M\"uller, ``Th\'er\`se esas nud' e volas gambolar kun ni!'' me obtenas korekte la Hungariana *inflexo ("Umlaut"), la Germana *inflexo, komencanta duopla cito-hoki tipografala, e-akuta, e-grava, apostrofo tipografala, e finanta duopla cito-hoki tipografala.< Danko, to esas sat interesiva. Me skribis: >> Uzo di simbolo 96, qua esas nek apostrofo, nek cito-hoko, vice simbolo 44 >> (o vice simbolo 145) esas eroro qua tendencas donar problemi.<< Vu respondis: >En la Angla on rare bezonas lo nek apostrofo nek cito-hoko. Do, kompreneble, on uzas la existanta klavo qua produktas "`" por signifikar la komencanta cito-hoko. Pro to, TeX komprenas "`" kom to, e nur desfacile on altree obtenas ol. On mustas uzar "`". Lo ne esas afero pri lo etika o korekta. Vu skribas pri simbolo 96 qua signifikas "`", e to esas justa en ASCII; ma la klavo portanta la signo "`" ne necese produktas kodexo 96. Lo relatas la *molvaro.< Quo esas praktikala por vu esas bona por vu, ma ol ne esas necese praktikala e do bona por altri. Me ne komentis o plendis pri uzo di ta klavo, ma komentis pri la rezulto, qua tre ofte esas la simbolo qua korespondas a numero 96 di ASCII. Ne importas qua klavon on uzis por obtenar ta rezulto. Ne importas se on uzas ta klavo por obtenar altra rezulto (quale, se me bone komprenas, vu obtenas.) Importas nur uzo di simbolo 96. Por uzanti di Windows (me certe ne povas ofrar konsilo ad uzanti di, exemple, Linux, ecepte forsan e nur poke se li anke uzas ASCII), la normala *molvaro donas simbolo 96 per la klavo qua montras ta simbolo, nam normala *molvaro ne konvertas ol ad altra simbolo. Mea helpo esis partikulare por Richard S., e me esperas ke adminime por il ol esos utila. Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1057 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88428 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2003 07:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Nov 2003 07:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2003 07:09:58 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAP79nmf003793 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:39:49 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hAP79mtV003790 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:39:49 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:39:48 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Subject: Re: [linguo] re kloko ed altra sugesti In-Reply-To: <200311241804_MC3-1-5C37-AF90@compuserve.com> Message-ID: References: <200311241804_MC3-1-5C37-AF90@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2003-11-24 18:03 -0500, R.B. Carnaghan skribis: > Me skribis: Danko por vua esforco respondar single a mea punti mem do vua postilo ne faciligas lo. > Nur pro ke probable maxim multa de nia lektanti uzas Windows (ed uli forsan > uzis DOS antee). Ka mea supozo (yes, esas nur supozo) esas eroro? No, vu esas justa. Ma kad on bezonas legi o reguli nur por la plumulto? E ka nur por hodie? On ne ja savas pri la futuro, ka forsan multi abandonos Microsoft. E se on postulas quale skribar, forsan on vizas publikigeso. Ma la komputori maximparte uzata pro to esas le Macintosh, qui produktas PostScript e PDF. Anke Linux produktas PostScript e PDF, ed on mustas uzar "`" por to. Segun me on ne koaktez skriberi pro ula streta teorio o supozo, ma anke on ne skribez ne-egardante pri la lekteri e redakteri. Pri "`" specale, redakteri povas facile remplasar ol. Amikale, Mikelo -- Qualio fardita (Turnix varia). La femino, poke plu granda kam la maskulo, facas la kurtezo, a pose serchas altra amorantuli, lasante singlakaze la maskula ucelo kovar la ovi e kreskigar la yuni. (Cayley, "What Bird is That?") From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1058 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24726 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2003 00:58:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Nov 2003 00:58:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2003 00:58:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2003 00:58:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:58:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: re kemiala element Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 839 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.86 From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar Adrian ed amiki, La Tabelo di Elementi da Prof. Ostwald es laudinda ma nuntempe ol meritas certena chanji. On remarkas ke Ostwald kustume uzas la finalo `-o' por elementi, ma ta uzado povas donar problemi, p.e. zirkono (amba elemento e juvelo), oro (Ostwald donas auro), oxo (nun es prefixo), edc. Por elementi, la dicionario Angla-Ido da Dyer kelkafoye uzas la finalo `-io' e kelkafoye `-o'. Por uniformeso me sugestis la finalo `-io' por elementi, ofte metali, vice la `-ium' di angla. Me ne konocas la `oficala versiono' di la tabelo quankam la Raporto di 1937 promisis tala listo. Advere, la Tabelo di Elementi bezonas kompleta riexploro e forsan la nova D.K. di la ULI povas aranjar ke grupeto efektigos ta tasko. Quale docisto di kemio dum triadek yari, me es felica donar helpo. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1059 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99071 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2003 22:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Dec 2003 22:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2003 22:14:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 13003 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2003 22:14:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Dec 2003 22:14:01 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c3b858$bb468660$886bdc51@landloic> To: Cc: , References: <20031201180600.72B1F9E@smtp4-out.minitel.net> Subject: Re: [idoskolo] Voila.fr Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:16:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Jean, Me dankas vu pro vizitar mea *sito e vua remarki. James Chandler ja facis a me la sami pri la vorti Bonveno e asociuro. Me agnoskis mea eroro e korektigis la vorto Bonvenita per Bonveno. Ma pri la asociitaro Ido-Francia me remarkigis a lu ke la franca dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront donas la sequanta definajo/definuro: association = asoci.o, asoci.ur.o; (personnes) asoci.it.ar.o. Do ca dicionario dicernas asociitaro (ensemblo de personi asociita ) e asociuro (ensemblo de ulo) malgre ke nula difero existas en franca. James respondis a me: >Me agnoskas ke asociataro o asociitaro es posibla, tamen me tre preferas asociuro. Me lasos vu selektar. Ca-kaze la sufixi dil Ido posibligas plura posiblesi. Ma me opinionas ke to ne esas bona e ke ni mustus riprecizigar la uzo-reguli di sufixi por evitar tala amba posiblaji. Forsan on ne devus kumular ula sufixi exemple. Quo pensas nia sekretario por la linguala questioni pri to ? Me ne deziras polemikar ma jus montrar mea desfacilaji kun Ido. Me havas ankore multa desfacilaji pri la sufixi aj ed ur kande me devas uzar oli kun verbi. Ma me ja skribis pri to laste en mea respondo a James. Amikala saluti Loik Me questionas me ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "JEAN MARTIGNON" � : Envoy� : lundi 1 d�cembre 2003 19:06 Objet : Re: [idoskolo] Voila.fr Kara Lo�c, Me dankas vu pro vua laboro por Ido, me intencis dicar a vu korektigar la titulo por Ido-France. Vu ja korektigis por la Franca linguo e parte por Ido, ma la bona titulo en Ido esus : Bonveno che la sito por la asociuro Ido-Francia. Me esperas helpir vu. Kordiala Idistala saluti. JM :::-::: From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1060 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46096 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2003 13:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2003 13:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0301.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2003 13:47:55 -0000 Received: from wwinf0303 (wwinf0303 [172.22.134.30]) by mwinf0301.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 26C2E400796 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:47:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <18319927.1070459275143.JavaMail.www@wwinf0303> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Nombrifado Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:47:55 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.28 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara amiki, Semblas a me ke la nombrifado dil Ido povus plubonigesar de vido-punto dil sono e dil prononco ma anke dil skribo camaniere: "dek un" vice "dek e un" "dek du " vice "dek e du" .... "duadek un" vice "duadek e un" "duadek du" vice "duadek e du" .... "cent un" vice "cent e un" "cent du" vice "cent e du" .... "cent duadek quar" vice "cent e duadek e quar" ... "triamil sepacent" vice "triamil e sepacent" ... Quon vu pensas pri to ? Kordiale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1061 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53499 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2003 23:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2003 23:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2003 23:36:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25876 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2003 23:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Dec 2003 23:36:33 -0000 Message-ID: <002901c3b9f6$98335460$886bdc51@landloic> To: Cc: , References: <000201c3b9c7$6273e9e0$189bfe91@pentium100> Subject: Re: [ido] nombrifado Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 00:38:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sro Alfred Neussner, Me komprenas ke mea propozajo pri la nombrifado en Id= o ne prizas a vu e certe ad altri anke, ma vu ne povas parolar pri la major= itato to esas certe ! Quale existas amba posiblaji kom e/ed, o/od, es/esas,= kar/kara, di la/dil, ...., pro quo ne povus existar anke la posibleso de k= arear o ne karear la juntvorto "ed" uzata en la nombrifado ? Me ne propoza= s la revoluciono. Ne esez quale esperantisto kun lia fundamento ! Se tal= a posiblajo proximigus Ido ad Esperanto, segun me to ne esus tro male. La = respondo di Christophe "Tamen, en multa lingui europana, ne existas junt-vo= rto quale en Ido. Probable onu kareos la junt-vorto "ed" en l'uzo ordinara = di Ido..." montras bone ke la opinioni pri ca temo esas dividata. Kande ni= a komuneso kreskas multe, lore la uzado selektos naturale la plu bona solvo= ma por to ni devas ante aceptar chanjar la regulo. Do me demandas hike a = Sro Carnaghan, sekretario di linguala questioni dil ULI, chanjar la regulo = di la nombrifado adjuntante la posibleso de karear la juntvorto "ed" . Kord= iale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : Alfred Neussner =C0= : idolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : mercredi 3 d=E9cembre 2003 18:46 = Objet : [ido] nombrifado La reguli di nombrifado bone funcionas depos= 80 yari en Ido e certe la majoritato refuzus chanjo pri to. La propozi= ta formi esas plu male pronuncebla ed itere superflue proximigus Ido ad E= speranto. Qua havas linguala propozi, to skribez oli a s-do Carnaghan . = Qua urjante bezonas kurtformo quale "ciao", ta dicez "adio". Se ni adoptos= omna modi ek nacionala lingui, lore Ido uldie esos inundata da superflua= samsenca vorti qui nur desfaciligas Ido . Saluti A.Neussner [Non-t= ext portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1062 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54780 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 13:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 13:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 13:52:41 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB5DpdPb001105 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 00:21:39 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hB5Dpc3I001102 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 00:21:39 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 00:21:38 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado In-Reply-To: <002901c3b9f6$98335460$886bdc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <000201c3b9c7$6273e9e0$189bfe91@pentium100> <002901c3b9f6$98335460$886bdc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2003-12-04 00:38 +0100, Loic Landais skribis: > Me komprenas ke mea propozajo pri la nombrifado en Ido ne prizas a > vu e certe ad altri anke, ma vu ne povas parolar pri la majoritato > to esas certe ! > Quale existas amba posiblaji kom e/ed, o/od, es/esas, kar/kara, di > la/dil, ...., pro quo ne povus existar anke la posibleso de karear o > ne karear la juntvorto "ed" uzata en la nombrifado ? Me ne propozas Kara Sro Landais, Pro ke irga helpolinguo artificala havas poka paroleri e skriberi, me opinionas ke dezirinde li uzez ol segun la dokumenti pri ol. Se ne, la linguo tendencos peceteskar. Esas diferanta pri naturala lingui qui havas milioni parolanta. Se kelki ek li volas inventar ed uzar plubonigita versiono di la linguo, li ne povos chanjar la linguo ipsa. Ni egardez anke ke L. de Beaufront kun altra pioniri exploris sorgeme la afero, e facis decido. Quale ni nun savas plu bone kam li, tale ke la decido esas chanjenda? Se me ne eroras, on darfas dicar "un ok quar" vice "cent e okadek e quar". Do, me ne povas vidar problemo. > la revoluciono. Ne esez quale esperantisto kun lia fundamento ! To ne esas bela. Tro ofte on sentas ke, pro ke linguo nur esas inventita da altri, on darfas posedar e chanjar ol segunvole, pro raciono qua ne esas forta. Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1063 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37382 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 21:27:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 21:27:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ag.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.13) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 21:27:18 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ag.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hB5LRHr9015661 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:27:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:21:42 -0500 Subject: Italiana tradukuri bezonata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312051623_MC3-1-5E5B-E003@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.13 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Italiana tradukuri esas bezonata por la sequanta vorti geografiala. La "in= dikilo" esas nur lando o landi qui indikas ulagrade ube esas (od esis) la l= ando od altra kozo. Danko. Robert C. _____________ Akadi.a [indikilo:= Kanada] A: Acadia F: l'Acadie G: Akadien H: Acadia I: ? Acadia Aleut.= i [indikilo: Alaska] A: Aleutian islands F: =EEles Al=E9outiennes G: Al= =EButen H: [insuli] islas Aleutianas I: ? Esp: Aleutoj Algarv.o A: Alga= rve F: Algarve G: Algarbien H: Algarbe I: ? Anam [indikilo: Azia, *Vie= tnam] A: Annam, Anam F: l'Annam G: Annam H: Anam I: ? Esp: Anamo Anha= lt [indikilo: Germania] A: Anhalt [German duchy] F: l'Anhalt [duch=E9] G= : Anhalt H: Anhalt (ducado de) I: ? Esp: Anhalto Aquitan.o A: native of= Aquitaine F: Aquitain G: Aquitanier H: natural de Aquitania I: ? Esp: = Akvitano Aquitani.a [indikilo: Francia] A: Aquitaine F: l'Aquitanie G: = Aquitanien H: Aquitania I: ? Esp: Akvitanio, -ujo Argovi.a [indikilo: S= uisia] A: Aargau F: Argovie [canton] G: Aargau H: Argovia [cant=F3n de] = I: ? Arverni.a [indikilo: Francia] A: Auvergne F: l'Auvergne G: Auverg= ne H: Auvernia I: ? Esp: Au`vernjo Asturi.a [indikilo: Hispania] A: A= sturias F: les Asturies G: Asturien H: Asturias I: ? Esp: Asturio Auli= d.o [indikilo: Grekia] A: Aulis F: l'Aulide G: Aulis H: Aulida I: ? E= sp: Au`lido Badeni.a [indikilo: Germania] A: Baden [duchy] F: [le Gr.-D= . de] Bade G: Baden [Grossherzogtum] H: el Gran Ducado de Baden I: ? Es= p: Badenio, -lando Baktri.a [indikilo: Afganistan] A: Bactria F: la Bac= triane G: Baktrien H: la Bactriana I: ? Esp: Baktrio Beludj.o A: Balu= ch [person] F: B=E9loutche G: Belutsche H: Beluchiano I: ? Beludjistan = [indikilo: Azia] A: Baluchistan F: le B=E9loutchistan G: Belutschistan = H: Beluchist=E1n I: ? Besarabi.a [indikilo: Moldavia, *Ukraina, Rumania= ] A: Bessarabia F: la Bessarabie G: Bessarabien H: la Besarabia I: ? E= sp: Besarabio Bitini.a [indikilo: Nigra Maro] A: Bithynia F: la Bithyni= e G: Bithynien H: la Bitinia I: ? Britan.o A: Briton [ancient] F: ? B= ritannique [...?] G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ? brit=E1nico [...?] I: ? Esp: = Britono Brunsvig [indikilo: Germania] A: Brunswick [duchy] F: le Brunsw= ick [duch=E9] G: Braunschweig H: Brunswik [ducado] I: ? Bukhari.a [indi= kilo: Azia] A: Bukhara, Bokhara F: la Boukharie G: Bucharei H: Boukhari= a I: ? Burgundi.a [indikilo: Francia] A: Burgundy F: la Bourgogne G: = Burgund H: Borgo=F1a I: ? Esp: Burgundio, -ujo Champani.a [indikilo: F= rancia] A: Champagne [region] F: la Champagne G: Champagne H: ? Champa= =F1a, Champagne [regi=F3n] I: ? Champagne Esp: C^ampanjo Daci.a [indiki= lo: Rumania] A: Dacia F: la Dacie G: Dacien H: Dacia I: ? Esp: Dacio = Eoli.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia, Greki] A: Aeolis, Aoelia F: =C9olie [nom pro= pre: g=E9ogr.] G: =C4olien H: Eolia I: ? Eolide, ? Eolia Esp: Eolio Eo= li.an.a A: Aeolian, Eolian [of Aeolis, Aeolia] F: d'=C9olie G: =E4olisch = [Rasse, Dialekt, Tonart] H: e=F3lico, eolio [de Eolia] I: ? eolico, ? eol= io [...?] Fair.o-Ter.o [indikilo: Arjentinia, Chili] A: Tierra del Fuego= F: (la) Terre-de-Feu G: Feuerland H: Tierra de Fuego I: ? Esp: Fuegio= , Fajrolando Falkland [indikilo: Atlantiko] A: Falkland Islands F: les = (=EEles) Falkland G: Falklandinseln H: Islas Falkland, Islas Malvinas I:= ? Galati.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] A: Galatia [Asia Minor] F: (la) Galati= e G: Galatien [=F6sterr. Kronland] H: Galacia I: ? Esp: Galatio, -ujo G= alici.a [indikilo: Polonia, *Ukraina] A: Galicia [on the north side of th= e Carpathians] F: (la) Galicie G: ? Galizien [....?] {Galizien esas ambig= ua} H: Galitzia I: ? Esp: Galicio Goti.a [indikilo: Suedia] A: Gotland= , Gothland, Gottland F: (la) Gothie, G=F6taland G: Gotland H: Goth=EDa I= : ? Hesi.a [indikilo: Germania] A: Hesse F: la Hesse G: Hessen H: la H= esse I: ? Esp: Hesio, -ujo, -lando Kab.land.o [indikilo: Afrika] A: Ca= pe Colony F: le Cap G: Kapland, Kapkolonie H: El Cabo I: ? Esp: Kabland= o Kapadoci.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] A: Cappadocia F: la Cappadoce G: Ka= ppadozien H: Capadocia I: ? Esp: Kapadocio Khiv.a [indikilo: Azia] A: = Khiva F: [le khanat de] Khiva G: Chiwa H: ? I: ? Kordilier.i [indikilo= : Amerika] A: (the) Cordilleras F: les Cordilli=E8res G: Kordilleren H: = las Cordilleras I: ? cordigliera [catena montuosa] {sen mayuskulo?} Esp: Ko= rdilero Kurland.o [indikilo: Latvia] A: Courland, Kurland F: Courlande = G: Kurland H: Curlandia I: ? Esp: Kurlando Lagos [indikilo: Nigeria] = A: Lagos F: (le) Lagos G: Lagos H: Lagos I: ? Likaoni.a [indikilo: Ava= n-Azia, Turkia] A: Lycaonia F: (la) Lycaonie G: Lykaonien H: Licaonia I= : ? Livoni.a [indikilo: Rusia, Estonia, Latvia] A: Livonia F: (la) Livon= ie G: Livland H: Livonia I: ? Esp: Livonio, -ujo Marian.i [indikilo: = Pacifiko] A: Mariana (islands) F: [les =EEles] Mariannes G: Marianen H: = Marianas [islas] I: ? Esp: Marianaj Insuloj Marquesas [indikilo: Pacifik= o] A: Marquesas Islands F: [les =EEles] Marquises G: Marquesasinseln H: = Marquesas [islas] I: ? Esp: Markizoj Mizi.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] A: M= ysia F: [la] Mysie G: Mysien H: Misia I: ? Moabi.a A: Moab [land] F: = le pays de Moab G: ? H: ? I: ? regione di Moab Nabate.i A: Nabataeans, = Nabatean [people] F: Nabat=E9ens [peuple] G: ? H: Nabateens [pueblo] I:= ? Lat: Nabataei Natal [indikilo: Sudafrika] A: Natal F: (le) Natal G:= Natal H: Natal [geog.] I: ? Esp: Natalo [Afriko] Pacifik.a A: Pacific= [adj.] F: pacifique [de l'oc=E9an] G: ? pazifisch H: ? I: ? Esp: Pacif= ika Paflagoni.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] A: Paphlagonia F: (la) Paphlagoni= e G: Paphlagonien H: Paflagonia I: ? Palateni.o [indikilo: Germania] = A: the Palatinate F: (le) Palatinat G: Pfalz H: el Palatinado I: ? Esp= : Palatinato Pamfili.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] A: Pamphylia F: (la) Pamph= ilie G: Pamphylien H: ? I: ? Podoli.a [indikilo: *Ukraina] A: Podolia= F: (la) Podolie G: Posolien H: [la] Podolia I: ? Posni.a [indikilo: P= olonia, Prusia] A: Posen [province] F: (la) Posnanie, Poznanie G: Posen = H: Posnania [geog.] I: ? Principe [indikilo: Afrika] A: Principe [island= ] F: l'=EEle du Prince G: Principe [Insel] H: Pr=EDncipe [isla del] I: = ? Esp: Principeo Quinsland.o [indikilo: Australia] A: Queensland F: (le= ) Queensland G: Queensland H: el Queezland I: ? Esp: Kvinslando Reunion= [indikilo: *Indiana Oceano, Francia] A: R=E9union [island] F: [l'=EEle = de] R=E9union G: R=E9union [Insel] H: Reuni=F3n, La Reuni=F3n I: ? Esp: = Reunio Rumeli.a [indikilo: Europa] A: Rumelia, Roumelia F: (la) Roum=E9= lie G: Rumelien H: Rumelia [geog.] I: ? Sant-Helen.a [indikilo: Atlant= iko] A: Saint Helena, St Helena [island] F: Sainte-H=E9l=E8ne G: Sankt H= elena H: Santa Elena [isla] I: ? Esp: Sankta-Heleno Sarmat.o A: Sarmat= ian F: Sarmate G: Sarmate H: s=E1rmata I: ? sarmata Esp: Sarmato Somal= .i-land.o [indikilo: Afrika] A: Somaliland F: (le) Somaliland G: Somali= k=FCste H: ? Somaliland I: ? Sporad.i [indikilo: Grekia] A: Sporades [= islands] F: [les =EEles] Sporades G: Sporaden [Inseln] H: Esp=F3radas I= : ? Stiri.a [indikilo: Austria] A: Styria F: (la) Styrie G: Steiermark = H: Estiria I: ? Esp: Stirio Tesali.a [indikilo: Grekia] A: Thessaly = F: (la) Thessalie G: Thessalien H: Tesalia I: ? Esp: Tesalio Tigre.an.a= A: Tigre [adj.], Tigrean F: Tigr=E9enne [langue] G: ? H: ? I: ? Tonki= n [indikilo: Azia] A: Tonkin, Tongking F: (le) Tonkin G: Tonkin H: Ton= k=EDn I: ? Esp: Tonkino Transval [indikilo: Afrika] A: Transvaal F: (= le) Transvaal G: Transvaal H: Transvaal I: ? Esp: Transvalo Turkestan = [indikilo: Azia] A: Turkestan, Turkistan F: (le) Turkestan G: Turkestan = H: Turkest=E1n I: ? Esp: Turkestano Vestfali.a [indikilo: Germania] A:= Westphalia F: (la) Westphalie G: Westfalen H: Westfalia I: ? Esp: Ves= tfalio Viktori.a [indikilo: Australia] A: Victoria [Australia] F: [l'=C9= tat de] Victoria G: Viktoria [Australien] H: Victoria [Australia] I: ? E= sp: Viktorio [Au`stralio] Voges.i [indikilo: Francia] A: Vosges (mountai= ns) F: (les) Vosges G: Vogesen H: ? I: ? Esp: Vogezoj Volini.a [indik= ilo: *Ukraina] A: Volhynia F: (la) Volynie, Volhynie G: Wolhynien H: Vo= linia I: ? Wurtemberg [indikilo: Germania] A: W=FCrttemberg F: (le) Wu= rtemberg [donner ici au W le son du V] G: W=FCrttemberg H: W=FCrttemberg = I: ? Esp: Vurtembergo Zulu-land.o [indikilo: Afrika] A: Zululand F: Zo= ulouland G: Zululand H: Zululandia I: ? Esp: Zululando [FINO] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1064 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77705 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 21:30:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 21:30:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 21:30:25 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hB5LUO90001067 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:30:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:21:45 -0500 Subject: Hispana tradukuri bezonata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312051623_MC3-1-5E5B-E004@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.133 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Hispana tradukuri esas bezonata por la sequanta vorti geografiala. Danko. = Robert C. ________________ Britan.o [Noto: Britani ne esis Britaniani] = A: Briton [ancient] F: ? Britannique [...?] G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ? br= it=E1nico [...?] I: ? Esp: Britono Champani.a [indikilo: Francia] A: Ch= ampagne [region] F: la Champagne G: Champagne H: ? Champa=F1a, Champagne = [regi=F3n] I: ? Champagne Esp: C^ampanjo Indi.an.o A: Indian [native of= India] F: Indien [de l'Inde] G: Indianer H: ? indio [de la India] I: i= ndiano [dell'India] Esp: Hindo Kaukaz.o [indikilo: Kaukazia, Kaspia Maro= , Nigra Maro] A: Caucasus Mountains, (the) Caucasus F: le Caucase G: Kauka= sus H: ? C=E1ucaso [...?] I: Caucaso Esp: Kau`kazo Kaukazi.a [indikilo= : Kaukazo] A: Caucasia, (the) Caucasus F: la Caucasie G: Kaukasien H: ? = C=E1ucaso [...?] I: Caucasia Esp: Kau`kazio Khiv.a [indikilo: Azia] A: = Khiva F: [le khanat de] Khiva G: Chiwa H: ? I: ? Kolchid.o [indikilo: = Nigra Maro] A: Colchis F: la Colchide G: Kolchis H: ? I: Colchide Esp= : Kolc^ido Moabi.a A: Moab [land] F: le pays de Moab G: ? H: ? I: ? re= gione di Moab Pacifik.a A: Pacific [adj.] F: pacifique [de l'oc=E9an] G:= ? pazifisch H: ? I: ? Esp: Pacifika Pamfili.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] = A: Pamphylia F: (la) Pamphilie G: Pamphylien H: ? I: ? Parti.a [indik= ilo: Azia] A: Parthia F: (la) Parthie, Parthy=E8ne G: Parthien H: ? I:= Partia Esp: Partio Piemont [indikilo: Italia] A: Piedmont F: (le) Pi= =E9mont G: Piemont H: ? I: Piemonte Esp: Piemonto Savoy.a [indikilo: F= rancia] A: Savoy F: (la) Savoie G: Savoyen H: ? Savoie I: Savoia Esp: = Savojo Savoy.an.o A: Savoyard [native of Savoy] F: Savoyard G: Savoyarde= H: ? I: savoiardo [persona] Skit.o A: Scythian [n.] F: Scythe G: Sky= the H: ? I: scita Esp: Skito Skiti.a [indikilo: Europa, Azia] A: Scyth= ia F: (la) Scythie G: Skythien H: ? Escitia I: Scizia Esp: Skitio, -uj= o Somal.i-land.o [indikilo: Afrika] A: Somaliland F: (le) Somaliland G= : Somalik=FCste H: ? Somaliland I: ? Tatari.a [indikilo: Azia, Europa] = A: Tatary, "Tartary" F: (la) Tartarie G: Tatarei H: ? I: Tartaria Esp: = Tatario, -ujo Tigre [indikilo: Etiopia, Sudan] A: Tigre, Tigr=E9 [region= ] F: (le) Tigre G: ? H: ? I: Tigr=E8 Tigre.an.a A: Tigre [adj.], Tigre= an F: Tigr=E9enne [langue] G: ? H: ? I: ? Trak.o A: Thracian F: (un) = Thrace G: Thrazier H: ? I: trace Esp: Trako Transilvan.o A: Transylvan= ian [n.] F: Transylvain, Transylvanien G: Siebenb=FCrge H: ? I: abitant= e della Transilvania Us.an.o A: American [of the USA] F: citoyen des =C9= tats-Unis G: Amerikaner [der Ver. Staaten] H: ? americano [de E.U.A.] I: a= mericano [degli S.U.A.] Esp: Usonano Voges.i [indikilo: Francia] A: Vos= ges (mountains) F: (les) Vosges G: Vogesen H: ? I: ? Esp: Vogezoj [FIN= O] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1065 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48209 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 21:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 21:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.8) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 21:30:53 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hB5LUp2I013409 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:30:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:21:46 -0500 Subject: Nomi geografiala - tradukuri bezonata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312051623_MC3-1-5E5B-E005@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.8 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Per multa hori de laboro, me nun havas bona listo de nomi geografiala en Id= o, e me trovis, ecepte en relative poka kazi, per sercho tra diversa vortol= ibri la tradukuri Angla, Franca, Germana, Hispana ed Italiana qui mankis. = Per altra mesaji me nun donas la vorti por qui ankore mankas tradukuri Germ= ana, Hispana ed Italiana. Anke un Franca tradukuro esas bezonata: Britan.= o [Noto: Britani ne esis Britaniani] A: Briton [ancient] F: ? Britanniqu= e [...?] G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ? brit=E1nico [...?] I: ? Esp: Britono = Danko por via helpo. Kande me recevas omna mankanta tradukuri, me prizento= s la granda listo de nomi geografiala. Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1066 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5688 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 21:23:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 21:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.3) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 21:23:36 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hB5LNauV011257 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:23:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:21:38 -0500 Subject: Germana tradukuri bezonata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312051622_MC3-1-5E6B-D07A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.3 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Germana tradukuri esas bezonata por la sequanta nomi geografiala. Danko. = Robert C. ______________ Amhar.a [indikilo: Abisinia, Etiopia] A: Amhara= [region of Abyssinia] F: Amhara [pays] G: ? H: Amhara I: Amhara Galic= i.a [indikilo: Polonia, *Ukraina] A: Galicia [on the north side of the Ca= rpathians] F: (la) Galicie G: ? Galizien [....?] {Galizien esas ambigua} = H: Galitzia I: ? Esp: Galicio Moabi.a A: Moab [land] F: le pays de Moa= b G: ? H: ? I: ? regione di Moab Moabi.an.o A: Moabite [native of the l= and of Moab] F: Moabite G: ? Moabit H: moabita I: moabita Nabate.i A: = Nabataeans, Nabatean [people] F: Nabat=E9ens [peuple] G: ? H: Nabateens = [pueblo] I: ? Lat: Nabataei Pacifik.a A: Pacific [adj.] F: pacifique [= de l'oc=E9an] G: ? pazifisch H: ? I: ? Esp: Pacifika Tigre [indikilo: = Etiopia, Sudan] A: Tigre, Tigr=E9 [region] F: (le) Tigre G: ? H: ? I: T= igr=E8 Tigre.an.a A: Tigre [adj.], Tigrean F: Tigr=E9enne [langue] G: ? = H: ? I: ? Turkoman.o A: Turkoman, Turkman F: Turcoman, Turkm=E8ne G: ?= Turkoman, Turkmene H: turcomano, turkmeno I: turkmeno, turcomanno Esp: t= urkmeno Ural.o [indikilo: Rusia] A: Ural [river] F: Oural [fleuve] G: = ? Ural [Zufluss] H: Ural [r=EDo] I: Ural Esp: Uralo [rivero] Ural.i [in= dikilo: Rusia] A: Ural mountains, Urals F: Oural [massif] G: ? Ural [Gebi= rge] H: Urales [montes] I: Urali Esp: Uralo [montaro] [FINO] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1067 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81583 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 22:08:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 22:08:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 22:08:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 7081 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 22:08:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 5 Dec 2003 22:08:13 -0000 Message-ID: <002a01c3bb7c$96951f80$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: <000201c3b9c7$6273e9e0$189bfe91@pentium100> <002901c3b9f6$98335460$886bdc51@landloic> Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 23:10:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Sro Michael TALBOT-WILSON, Exkuzez mea problemi de Idala nombrifado, ma quale vu dicas e skribas 7 863 209, 65 ? Me predankas vu. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1068 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57912 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2003 23:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Dec 2003 23:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2003 23:16:25 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB5NFMkt000611 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:45:22 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hB5NFMqe000608 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:45:22 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:45:21 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado In-Reply-To: <002a01c3bb7c$96951f80$886bdc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <000201c3b9c7$6273e9e0$189bfe91@pentium100> <002901c3b9f6$98335460$886bdc51@landloic> <002a01c3bb7c$96951f80$886bdc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2003-12-05 23:10 +0100, Loic Landais skribis: > Exkuzez mea problemi de Idala nombrifado, ma quale vu dicas e > skribas 7 863 209, 65 ? Certe me ne pretendas esar autoritatozo. Plu bone on lektez la KGD. Segun Ida puntizado ol esas 7.863.209,65 kun nula intervalo dop la komo. sep milion e ok sis tri mil e du zero non komo sis kin sep milion, e okacent e sisadek e triamil, e duacent e non komo sis kin seven million, eight sixty-three thousand, two hundred and nine point six five La maxim kompleta formo en Ido esas plu kurta kam la Angla. Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1069 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58472 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 13:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2003 13:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2003 13:32:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 8664 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 13:32:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Dec 2003 13:32:05 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c3bcc6$d13eb4c0$886bdc51@landloic> To: Cc: References: Subject: Re: [ido] Dio-Proverbo Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:34:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara James, Dankas a vu pro korektigabir me pri la Dio Proverbo di Jean. = Me rilektis la Komuna Gramatiko Detaloza (KGD) pri la relativa pronomi di q= ua la sequanta explikaji donas la klefo por komprenar la uzado di "qua" e "= quo": - On uzas quo nur kande parolesas pri kozo nedeterminita; on uzas qu= a pri kozo determinita. Ex. : Me renkontris povra oldulo, qua demandis de = me almono. - Kom pronomo relativa, qua recevas la nombro di lua antecedent= o e la n inversigala, se ol preiras la subjekto : la homi qui venis; la ho= mo quan me vidas; la homi quin me vidas. - Same quo recevas la n inversigal= a se, esante komplemento direta, ol preiras la subjekto : Quo falis? Quon = vu vidas? To, quo eventas, dezolas me. To, quon il naracis, interesis ni al= tagrade (3). (3) Quo reprezentas kozo ne determinita o fakto. Do lu ne pov= as havar pluralo, same kam ico, ito qui tre ofte preiras lu kom antecedenti= . - Ita, ta, iti, ti ed ilta, ilti; elta, elti; olta, olti uzesas kom ant= ecedenti di qua, qui. Ex. : ta qua volas, ti qui volas, ilta qua volas, il= ti qui volas, elta qua volas, e. c. Pro ke "Omno" esas nederminata on mus= tas uzar quo. Do "Omno quo brilas ne esas oro" ed "Omna to, quo brilas ne = esas oro " esas korekta, ma "Omno qua brilas ne esas oro " ne esas bona. F= ine me pensas avancabir en la komprenado de "qua" e "quo" . Do me dankas Je= an pro sua Dio Proverbo. Amikala saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ---= -- De : James Chandler =C0 : idolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : s= amedi 6 d=E9cembre 2003 13:59 Objet : RE: [ido] Dio-Proverbo Kara Loi= c Korekta es: Omno quo brilas ne esas oro Omna to, quo brilas ne es= as oro (Angle: All that glitters is not gold - memorinda dicajo!) Kor= diale, James Chandler [Non-text portions of this message have been remov= ed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1070 Return-Path: X-Sender: cheal@hotpop.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40278 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 18:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2003 18:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2003 18:02:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Dec 2003 18:02:08 -0000 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:02:06 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Nomi geografiala - tradukuri bezonata Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312051623_MC3-1-5E5B-E005@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1081 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.71 From: "filipklutie" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=156619618 X-Yahoo-Profile: filipklutie Ay! Me dankas vu pro vua laboro. Tamen me ne savas quale dicesas "Britano" = en Franca. En Dictionnaire Fran=E7ais-Ido on lektas : Grande-Bretagne: Brit= ania.(Peuple ancien de la G.-B. : Britan-o, -i). Do semblas ke nia pioniri = anke ne konocis ta vorto. Irgakaze, se tala vorto existas, poka personi kon= ocos ol. --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005= @c...> wrote: > Per multa hori de laboro, me nun havas bona listo de nomi g= eografiala en > Ido, e me trovis, ecepte en relative poka kazi, per sercho = tra diversa > vortolibri la tradukuri Angla, Franca, Germana, Hispana ed It= aliana qui > mankis. > > Per altra mesaji me nun donas la vorti por qui an= kore mankas tradukuri > Germana, Hispana ed Italiana. > > Anke un Franca t= radukuro esas bezonata: > > Britan.o [Noto: Britani ne esis Britaniani] = > A: Briton [ancient] F: ? Britannique [...?] > G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ?= brit=E1nico [...?] I: ? > Esp: Britono > > Danko por via helpo. > > Kan= de me recevas omna mankanta tradukuri, me prizentos la granda listo de > no= mi geografiala. > > Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1071 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55811 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 20:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2003 20:43:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2003 20:43:55 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hB7Kct8K026024 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:38:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:38:16 -0500 Subject: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312071538_MC3-1-5EAA-1BD3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.8 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Loik, Me ne darfas chanjar Ido. Nur la Direktanta Komitato di ULI darfas facar to. Balde ULI havos nova Direktanta Komitato. Pose la DK elektos la Sekretario ed altri. Me ipsa dubitas ke la DK volos tale chanjar Ido, ma se vu ankore volas propozar chanjo, voluntez skribar ol en formo korekta e klara e sendar ol al Sekretario Linguala kande esas nova komitato. Ne esas tempo por la nuna DK recevar e votar pri ol. Danko. Robert C. ___________ Loik skribis [mea komenti inter kramponi]: >Do me demandas hike a Sro Carnaghan, sekretario di linguala questioni dil ULI, chanjar la regulo di la nombrifado adjuntante la posibleso de [di] karear la juntvorto "ed" [en Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza, libro studiinda, la vorto adminime rekomendita esas "e"] . Kordiale Loik < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1072 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74808 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 23:45:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Dec 2003 23:45:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2003 23:45:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 23857 invoked from network); 7 Dec 2003 23:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Dec 2003 23:44:38 -0000 Message-ID: <00a601c3bd1c$6423af20$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: <200312071538_MC3-1-5EAA-1BD3@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 00:46:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Danko pro vua respondo ma depos ca demando qua me sendis a = Alfred Neussner, multa idisti expresis su pri la nombrifado e me ipsa me de= skovris ca-okazione la kompleta reguli di la nombrifado en la KGD. , Nun = me bezonas studiar ca reguli por savar se la juntvorto "e" povus esar neob= ligata. Lore forsan me sendos propozajo a la nova komitato. Ma esus intere= santa savar se tala propozajo ja facabis e quo esis la respondo. Kordiale = ----- Message d'origine ----- De : R.B. Carnaghan =C0 : INTERNET:l= inguolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : dimanche 7 d=E9cembre 2003 21:38 = Objet : [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Kara Loik, Me ne darfas chanj= ar Ido. Nur la Direktanta Komitato di ULI darfas facar to. Balde ULI h= avos nova Direktanta Komitato. Pose la DK elektos la Sekretario ed altri= . Me ipsa dubitas ke la DK volos tale chanjar Ido, ma se vu ankore volas= propozar chanjo, voluntez skribar ol en formo korekta e klara e sendar o= l al Sekretario Linguala kande esas nova komitato. Ne esas tempo por la n= una DK recevar e votar pri ol. Danko. Robert C. ___________ Lo= ik skribis [mea komenti inter kramponi]: >Do me demandas hike a Sro Carna= ghan, sekretario di linguala questioni dil ULI, chanjar la regulo di la n= ombrifado adjuntante la posibleso de [di] karear la juntvorto "ed" [en Ko= mpleta Gramatiko Detaloza, libro studiinda, la vorto adminime rekomendita= esas "e"] . Kordiale Loik < [Non-text portions of this message ha= ve been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1073 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30933 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2003 16:58:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2003 16:58:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO thomas.numericable.net) (80.236.0.149) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2003 16:58:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 28365 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2003 16:58:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by thomas.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 8 Dec 2003 16:58:01 -0000 Message-ID: <005c01c3bdac$c0e40760$886bdc51@landloic> To: "idolisto" , Subject: Vortifado Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:00:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.149 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara amiki, En multa vorti kom homogena, homologa, homonimo, ...on uzas la elemento "homo" ma ne por la vorti "homeosexuala" qua uzas la elemeto "homeo". Tamen la vorti heterogena , "heterosexuala" uzas la sama elemento "hetero". Do me opinionas ke esus plu justa havar "homosexuala" vice "homeosexuala". Ka vu inter-konkordas kun me ? Kordiale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1074 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50488 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2003 19:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2003 19:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.17.109) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2003 19:11:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:11:40 -0800 Received: from 195.92.67.66 by lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:11:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: RE: [linguo] Vortifado Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:11:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2003 19:11:40.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C3F75B0:01C3BDBF] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.17.109 From: "James Chandler" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Esas precize pro ke existas hom/o ke ni uzas homeosexual/a. Nam homosexual/a esus prefero ad omna homi, to quo supozeble inkluzus ne nur viri e mulieri, ma anke pueri? homeosexualeso es prefero a nur samsexuani. Kordiale salutas. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "The French language is like the stiff French garden of Louis XIV, while the English language is like an English park, in which you are allowed to walk everywhere without having to fear rigorous regulations." - Otto Jespersen, Growth and Structure of English _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1075 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55235 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2003 21:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2003 21:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.8) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2003 21:34:12 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hB8LYBDq027352 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:34:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:30:59 -0500 Subject: [linguo] Re: Nomi geografiala - tradukuri bezonata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312081633_MC3-1-5ED9-5478@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.8 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Danko. Tamen, on mustas trovar moyeno por explikar la senco di vorto mem se= ne existas un-vorta equivalanto. Anke por altra koncepti simila problemo e= xistas, nam ne sempre existas en linguo omnakaze un vorto por singla vorto = en altra linguo. Per plusa serchado, me trovas ke forsan plu bona solvuro = esas: Britan.o =3D Breton [membre du peuple ancien celtique vivant dans = la Grande-Bretagne du sud au temps du conquete romain] Semblas ke to esas = plu o min exakte altra senco di "Breton" kam la senco ordinara. Tamen, se o= l ne helpus ni povus dicar: Britan.o =3D membre du peuple ancien celtiqu= e vivant dans la Grande-Bretagne du sud au temps du conquete romain Quon v= u opinionas? Voluntez korektigar mea Franca texto! Robert C. ___________ = >Ay! Me dankas vu pro vua laboro. Tamen me ne savas quale dicesas "Britano"= en Franca. En Dictionnaire Fran=E7ais-Ido on lektas : Grande-Bretagne: Bri= tania.(Peuple ancien de la G.-B. : Britan-o, -i). Do semblas ke nia pioniri= anke ne konocis ta vorto. Irgakaze, se tala vorto existas, poka personi ko= nocos ol. ... ... ... > Anke un Franca tradukuro esas bezonata: > > Bri= tan.o [Noto: Britani ne esis Britaniani] > A: Briton [ancient] F: ? Brit= annique [...?] > G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ? brit=E1nico [...?] I: ? > Esp:= Britono< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1076 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66321 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2003 23:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2003 23:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2003 23:10:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2003 23:10:00 -0000 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 23:09:59 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: re kemiala element Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1324 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "Fernando TEJON" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara sioro Richard Stevenson Anke me esas docisto di kemio. Me multe prizas la Tabelo di Elementi propozita da vu. Semblas a me bona ideo kreor grupeto por riexplorar la nomi di la elementi. Takaze vu ja facis la plu granda laboro. Danko. Altralatere ka vu skribis ula verko pri kemio Idolingue? Me multe prizus lektar ol. Kemiala saluti Fernando TEJON -------------- --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "richsteven2000" wrote: > Kar Adrian ed amiki, > La Tabelo di Elementi da Prof. Ostwald es laudinda ma nuntempe ol > meritas certena chanji. On remarkas ke Ostwald kustume uzas la > finalo `-o' por elementi, ma ta uzado povas donar problemi, p.e. > zirkono (amba elemento e juvelo), oro (Ostwald donas auro), oxo > (nun es prefixo), edc. Por elementi, la dicionario Angla-Ido da Dyer > kelkafoye uzas la finalo `-io' e kelkafoye `-o'. Por uniformeso me > sugestis la finalo `-io' por elementi, ofte metali, vice la `-ium' > di angla. Me ne konocas la `oficala versiono' di la tabelo quankam > la Raporto di 1937 promisis tala listo. > Advere, la Tabelo di Elementi bezonas kompleta riexploro e forsan la > nova D.K. di la ULI povas aranjar ke grupeto efektigos ta tasko. > Quale docisto di kemio dum triadek yari, me es felica donar helpo. > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1077 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95601 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2003 23:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2003 23:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2003 23:26:17 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hB8NOswL000581 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:54:54 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.8/8.12.9/Submit) with ESMTP id hB8NOsEe000578 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:54:54 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:54:53 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: re kemiala element In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara kemiisti, Ka vi havas la tabelo da Ostwald? Se ne me riskribos ol kom PDF. Anke Ostwald diskutis la uzo di "argento" vice "arjento" e.c. On retenis lo omna. Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1078 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90625 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 00:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2003 00:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 00:00:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2003 00:00:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 00:00:04 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: La tabeli (2) di kemiala elementi Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1387 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.81 From: "Fernando TEJON" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kar kemio-amiki En la mesajo 1003 sioro R. Stivenson montras a ni nova tabelo di kemiala elementi. Me konkordas pri la nomi propozita takaze. Altralatere yen la tabelo di kemiala elementi da la kemiisto Wilhelm Ostwald: (videz en la retpagino di la Ido-Societo Germana) Simbolo internaciona - Nomo - (simbolo propozita da W.O.) Ac Aktino (Ak). H Hido. Ra Radiumo. Ag Argento. He Helo. Rb Rubido. Al Alumino. Hg Merkuro (Mr). Rh Rhodio. Ar Argono. In Indo. Ru Ruteno. As Arseno. I Ido. S Sulfo. Au Auro. Io Iono. Sa Samaro. B Boro. Ir Irido. Sb Stibo. Ba Bario. K Kalio (Ka). Sc Skando (Sk). Be Berilo. Kr Kripto. Se Seleno. Bi Bismuto. La Lantano. Si Siliko. Br Bromo. Li Litio. Sn Stano. C Karbo (K). Lu Leteto. Sr Stronco. Ca Kalco (Kc). Mg Magnezio. Ta Tantalo. Cd Kadmo (Kd). Mn Mangano. Tb Terbo. Ce Cero. Mo Molibdo. Te Teluro. Cl Kloro (Kl). N Nitro. Th Torio (To). Cr Kromo (Kr). Na Natro. Ti Titano. Co Kobalto (Ko). Nd Neodimo. Tl Talio. Cs Cesio. Ne Neono. Tu Tulio. Cu Kupro (Ku). Ni Nikelo. U Urano. Dy Disprozo (Ds). O Oxo. V Vanado. Er Erbo. Os Osmo. W Wolframo. Eu Europo. P Fosfo (Fo). X Xenono. F Fluoro. Pb Plumbo. Y Yitro. Fe Fero. Pl Palado. Yb Yiterbo. Ga Galio. Po Polono. Zn Zinko. Ga Gadolinio. Pr Praseodimo. Zr Zirkono. Ge Germanio. Pt Platino. Itere kemiala saluti Fernando TEJON -------------- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1079 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15920 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 00:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2003 00:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 00:56:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 19636 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 00:56:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Dec 2003 00:56:11 -0000 Message-ID: <002301c3bdef$8db9bfe0$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: <200312081633_MC3-1-5ED9-5478@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nomi geografiala - tradukuri bezonata Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 01:58:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Me korektigus vua texto camaniere: Britan.o =3D membre du p= euple ancien celtique vivant dans le sud de la Grande-Bretagne au temps de = la conqu=EAte romaine. Esas bone ne konfundar Britano kun : Bretono =3D m= =E9lange de gaulois et de celtes venus du sud de la Grande-Bretagne au temp= s de la conqu=EBte romaine. Kordiale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- = De : R.B. Carnaghan =C0 : INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Env= oy=E9 : lundi 8 d=E9cembre 2003 22:30 Objet : [linguo] Re: Nomi geografia= la - tradukuri bezonata Danko. Tamen, on mustas trovar moyeno por expli= kar la senco di vorto mem se ne existas un-vorta equivalanto. Anke por al= tra koncepti simila problemo existas, nam ne sempre existas en linguo omn= akaze un vorto por singla vorto en altra linguo. Per plusa serchado, m= e trovas ke forsan plu bona solvuro esas: Britan.o =3D Breton [membre = du peuple ancien celtique vivant dans la Grande-Bretagne du sud au temps = du conquete romain] Semblas ke to esas plu o min exakte altra senco di "= Breton" kam la senco ordinara. Tamen, se ol ne helpus ni povus dicar: = Britan.o =3D membre du peuple ancien celtique vivant dans la Grande-Bre= tagne du sud au temps du conquete romain Quon vu opinionas? Voluntez kor= ektigar mea Franca texto! Robert C. ___________ [Non-text portions o= f this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1080 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41249 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 01:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2003 01:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 01:22:36 -0000 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20031209012209.KJML9030.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:22:09 +1300 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20031209012235.GSBT22869.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:22:35 +1300 To: Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: re kemiala element Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:22:35 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20031209012235.GSBT22869.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.144 From: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: "Fernando TEJON" > Date: 2003/12/09 Tue PM 12:09:59 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] Re: re kemiala element > > Kara samideano Fernando, Danko por vua afabla mesajo. Me regretas ke mea e-posto a Linguolisto ne preservis mea aranjo di ordinema kolumni. La rezulto esis konfuzanta! Ni dankas Prof. Ostwald por l'originala tabelo, ma nuntempe ni devas examinar la totala temo, specale pro la nova trans-uraniala elementi. La diversa Ido dicionarii donas konfuziganta nomi por l'elementi, e por exemplo, me sugestas ke l'angla finalo "-ium" divenas "-io" en Ido. Ni esperas ke la nova Komitato di ULI balde povas examinar e donar oficala Ido vorti por la teknikala termini quin ni triste mankas. Me ne skribabas libro pri kemio en Ido ma tempope me sendis artikli pri kemio e biologio a "Progreso", "Ido Saluto!" e "Letro Internaciona". Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1081 Return-Path: X-Sender: conocimientopleno@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59946 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 12:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2003 12:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 12:02:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2003 12:02:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:02:51 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [linguo] Re: re kemiala element Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 692 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Adri=E1n_Pastrana?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136053279 X-Yahoo-Profile: kanaria1973 Kara Michael: Voluntez sendar me la tabelo da Ostwald kom PDF. Danko Adri= =E1n Pastrana --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote: > Kara kemiisti, > > Ka vi havas la tabelo da Ostwald? S= e ne me riskribos ol kom PDF. > > Anke Ostwald diskutis la uzo di "argento= " vice "arjento" e.c. On > retenis lo omna. > > Amikale... > -- > Michae= l TALBOT-WILSON > -- > Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka exp= erimenti, e me > montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experiment= i. Me ne > timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti= , > se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum > vu.= ---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1082 Return-Path: X-Sender: conocimientopleno@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35266 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 12:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2003 12:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 12:18:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.138] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2003 12:18:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:18:32 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Hispana tradukuri bezonata Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312051623_MC3-1-5E5B-E004@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3448 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Adri=E1n_Pastrana?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136053279 X-Yahoo-Profile: kanaria1973 Saluti! Britano =3D Brit=E1nico Champania =3D Champagne (on uzas la franca = nomo) Indiano =3D Hind=FA Kaukazo =3D Caucaso Kaukazia =3D Caucasia Pacifik= a =3D Pac=EDfico Somal.i-land.o=3D Somalia Usano =3D Americano, estadounide= nse La cetera vortin me serchos che mea nam me ne savas ilua hispana tradu= kuro. Amikale Adri=E1n Pastrana --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "R.B.= Carnaghan" <100024.1005@c...> wrote: > Hispana tradukuri esas bezonata po= r la sequanta vorti geografiala. > > Danko. > > Robert C. > _____________= ___ > > > Britan.o [Noto: Britani ne esis Britaniani] > A: Briton [anci= ent] F: ? Britannique [...?] > G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ? brit=E1nico [...= ?] I: ? > Esp: Britono > > Champani.a [indikilo: Francia] A: Champagne = [region] > F: la Champagne G: Champagne H: ? Champa=F1a, Champagne > [reg= i=F3n] I: ? Champagne Esp: C^ampanjo > > Indi.an.o A: Indian [native of= India] F: Indien [de > l'Inde] G: Indianer H: ? indio [de la India] I:= indiano > [dell'India] Esp: Hindo > > Kaukaz.o [indikilo: Kaukazia, Kas= pia Maro, Nigra Maro] > A: Caucasus Mountains, (the) Caucasus F: le Caucas= e > G: Kaukasus H: ? C=E1ucaso [...?] I: Caucaso Esp: Kau`kazo > > Kauk= azi.a [indikilo: Kaukazo] A: Caucasia, (the) Caucasus > F: la Caucasie G= : Kaukasien H: ? C=E1ucaso [...?] > I: Caucasia Esp: Kau`kazio > > Khiv.= a [indikilo: Azia] A: Khiva F: [le khanat de] Khiva > G: Chiwa H: ? I:= ? > > Kolchid.o [indikilo: Nigra Maro] A: Colchis F: la > Colchide G:= Kolchis H: ? I: Colchide Esp: Kolc^ido > > Moabi.a A: Moab [land] F:= le pays de Moab G: ? H: ? > I: ? regione di Moab > > Pacifik.a A: Paci= fic [adj.] F: pacifique [de l'oc=E9an] > G: ? pazifisch H: ? I: ? Esp: = Pacifika > > Pamfili.a [indikilo: Avan-Azia] A: Pamphylia F: (la) > Pam= philie G: Pamphylien H: ? I: ? > > Parti.a [indikilo: Azia] A: Parthi= a F: (la) Parthie, > Parthy=E8ne G: Parthien H: ? I: Partia Esp: Parti= o > > Piemont [indikilo: Italia] A: Piedmont F: (le) Pi=E9mont > G: Pie= mont H: ? I: Piemonte Esp: Piemonto > > Savoy.a [indikilo: Francia] A= : Savoy F: (la) Savoie > G: Savoyen H: ? Savoie I: Savoia Esp: Savojo >= > Savoy.an.o A: Savoyard [native of Savoy] F: Savoyard > G: Savoyarde = H: ? I: savoiardo [persona] > > Skit.o A: Scythian [n.] F: Scythe G: S= kythe H: ? > I: scita Esp: Skito > > Skiti.a [indikilo: Europa, Azia] = A: Scythia F: (la) > Scythie G: Skythien H: ? Escitia I: Scizia Esp: S= kitio, > -ujo > > Somal.i-land.o [indikilo: Afrika] A: Somaliland F: (l= e) > Somaliland G: Somalik=FCste H: ? Somaliland I: ? > > Tatari.a [in= dikilo: Azia, Europa] A: Tatary, "Tartary" > F: (la) Tartarie G: Tatarei = H: ? I: Tartaria > Esp: Tatario, -ujo > > Tigre [indikilo: Etiopia, Sud= an] A: Tigre, Tigr=E9 [region] > F: (le) Tigre G: ? H: ? I: Tigr=E8 > = > Tigre.an.a A: Tigre [adj.], Tigrean F: Tigr=E9enne [langue] > G: ? H: = ? I: ? > > Trak.o A: Thracian F: (un) Thrace G: Thrazier H: ? > I: tr= ace Esp: Trako > > Transilvan.o A: Transylvanian [n.] F: Transylvain, >= Transylvanien G: Siebenb=FCrge H: ? I: abitante della > Transilvania > = > Us.an.o A: American [of the USA] F: citoyen des =C9tats-Unis > G: Amer= ikaner [der Ver. Staaten] H: ? americano [de E.U.A.] > I: americano [degli= S.U.A.] Esp: Usonano > > Voges.i [indikilo: Francia] A: Vosges (mounta= ins) > F: (les) Vosges G: Vogesen H: ? I: ? Esp: Vogezoj > > [FINO] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1083 Return-Path: X-Sender: cheal@hotpop.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78347 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2003 17:17:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Dec 2003 17:17:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.99) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Dec 2003 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.144] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Dec 2003 17:15:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:15:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [linguo] Re: Nomi geografiala - tradukuri bezonata Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312081633_MC3-1-5ED9-5478@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1673 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.99 From: "filipklutie" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=156619618 X-Yahoo-Profile: filipklutie Kara Sioro Carnaghan France, "breton" vere signifikas du kozi diferanta. Un= ek oli esas to quan ni parolas pri, e l'altro koncernas nur la Franca prov= inco. Do, ma konjektas ke sat kurta tradukuro povus esar "Breton (de Grande= -Bretagne)". --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.= 1005@c...> wrote: > Danko. Tamen, on mustas trovar moyeno por explikar la s= enco di vorto mem se > ne existas un-vorta equivalanto. Anke por altra konc= epti simila problemo > existas, nam ne sempre existas en linguo omnakaze un= vorto por singla vorto > en altra linguo. > > Per plusa serchado, me trov= as ke forsan plu bona solvuro esas: > > Britan.o =3D Breton [membre du p= euple ancien celtique vivant dans la > Grande-Bretagne du sud au temps du c= onquete romain] > > Semblas ke to esas plu o min exakte altra senco di "Br= eton" kam la senco > ordinara. Tamen, se ol ne helpus ni povus dicar: > > = Britan.o =3D membre du peuple ancien celtique vivant dans la > Grande-Bre= tagne du sud au temps du conquete romain > > Quon vu opinionas? Voluntez k= orektigar mea Franca texto! > > Robert C. > ___________ > > >Ay! Me danka= s vu pro vua laboro. Tamen me ne savas quale dicesas > "Britano" en Franca.= En Dictionnaire Fran=E7ais-Ido on lektas : > Grande-Bretagne: Britania.(Pe= uple ancien de la G.-B. : Britan-o, -i). > Do semblas ke nia pioniri anke n= e konocis ta vorto. > Irgakaze, se tala vorto existas, poka personi konocos= ol. > > ... ... ... > > > Anke un Franca tradukuro esas bezonata: > > = > > Britan.o [Noto: Britani ne esis Britaniani] > > A: Briton [ancient] = F: ? Britannique [...?] > > G: Brite [Alt. Volk] H: ? brit=E1nico [...?] = I: ? > > Esp: Britono< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1084 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31666 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2003 00:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2003 00:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2003 00:28:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Dec 2003 00:28:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:28:22 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Antiquatra vorti en dicionario Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1729 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.72 From: "richsteven2000" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar amiki, Yen mea sugesti pri antiquatra vorti en la dicionario Ido-Angla da Dyer. Pos 80 yari la mondo chanjas, do forsan ni ne plus bezonas: AMIDOLO (anciena foto-reveligo); BANDAJO (A: tyre); CHANFRENO; CICISBEO, CITODIEREZO (*mitoso nun uzesas); KONDENSATORO [elektroniko] ( nuntempe *kapacitoro); DEKALKO-MANIO; MAGNETIZAR (A: memerise, ma hipnotigar es plu apta); DINOSAURO (dinosauro es plu bona quale plesiosauro ed iktiosauro, [ya en Ido] ); FARMAR (bezonas nova traktado); FTIZIO (tuberkloso es plu apta); HIDO- (moderna kemio uzas hidro- quale prefixo, hidrogeno es plu apta porl'elemento); IKONOGENO (anciena foto-reveligo); INFUZORIO (ne plus biologiala termino); IZABELA; KOREO (A: chorea, nun Morbo di Huntington ); SWICHAR (= chanjar la sinso di kurento, od en Usa, di treno sur relo. Ni bezonas vorto quan signifikas moyeno komencar o haltar elektrala kurento, la vorto `komutar' es ambigua ); MATRIKULO; NITRO- uzesas prefixo en kemio, nitrogeno es plu apta por l'elemento; NOSTOKO nuntempe apartenas a la grupo Cianobakterio; OPODELDOC?; PALTOTO; PITUITO: (bezonas moderna difero inter pituito [muko] ed endokrina glando [pituitala]. Sugestas *pituitaria [glando], e muko, ne pituito.); POLIGRAFO, es "mentio-trovilo", uzez `fotokopilo'; PSIKROMETRO, hygrometro es plu apta; SAURIO; SPENCERO; TAKIGRAFAR, TAKIMETRO (existas konfundeso inter aparato qua mezuras rapideso [takimetro] e rotaci po minuto [*takometro]; TER-POMO; TONNEAU; ZESTO, (nun la extera shelo di oranjo o limono por saporigar nutrajo). Notez: La germana fotoreveligo "Rodinal" (rodinalo) ankore existas. Me trovas ol esar utila e spariva. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1085 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37846 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2003 20:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Dec 2003 20:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ag.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.13) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Dec 2003 20:42:42 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ag.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hBAKgfct011282 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:42:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:24:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312101525_MC3-1-5F5B-5C08@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.13 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Loik, Me ne savas pri tala propozo antea. Ka me darfas propozar plu longa experiencado e plu profunda savo di Ido ante facar formala propozi pri chanjar ol? Amikale, Robert C. _______________ Loik skribis [me korektigas]: >Danko pro vua respondo ma depos ca demando qua [quan] me sendis a Alfred Neussner, multa idisti expresis su pri la nombrifado e me ipsa me deskovris ca-okazione la kompleta reguli di la nombrifado en la KGD. , Nun me bezonas studiar ca reguli por savar se [(o forsan plu bone:) ka] la juntvorto "e" povus esar neobligata [neobligala (on ne obligas vorto!)]. Lore forsan me sendos propozajo a la nova komitato. Ma esus interesanta savar se tala propozajo ja facabis [facabesis] e quo esis la respondo. Kordiale< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1086 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2843 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 02:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2003 02:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 02:08:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 15593 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 02:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Dec 2003 02:08:02 -0000 Message-ID: <004e01c3bf8b$ebe94ac0$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: <200312101525_MC3-1-5F5B-5C08@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:10:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Quale me skribis, me bezonas nun studiar la kompleta reguli = di la nombrifado en la KGD por savar ka la uzado di la juntvorto "e" povus= esar neobligata? Plu longa experiencado e plu profunda savo di Ido esas ne= cesa por me ante facar eventuale nova formala propozajo. Me dankas omna ti = qui expresis su pri ca temo e demandas a vu ne plu egardez mea demando nun.= Amikale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : R.B. Carnaghan = =C0 : INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : mercredi 10 d=E9c= embre 2003 21:24 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] nombrifado Kara Loik,= Me ne savas pri tala propozo antea. Ka me darfas propozar plu longa = experiencado e plu profunda savo di Ido ante facar formala propozi pri ch= anjar ol? Amikale, Robert C. _______________ Loik skribis [me ko= rektigas]: >Danko pro vua respondo ma depos ca demando qua [quan] me send= is a Alfred Neussner, multa idisti expresis su pri la nombrifado e me ip= sa me deskovris ca-okazione la kompleta reguli di la nombrifado en la KG= D. , Nun me bezonas studiar ca reguli por savar se [(o forsan plu bone:)= ka] la juntvorto "e" povus esar neobligata [neobligala (on ne obligas vo= rto!)]. Lore forsan me sendos propozajo a la nova komitato. Ma esus in= teresanta savar se tala propozajo ja facabis [facabesis] e quo esis la re= spondo. Kordiale< Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTIS= EMENT Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject= to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have= been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1087 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20484 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 18:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2003 18:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 18:42:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 13851 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 18:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Dec 2003 18:42:15 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c3c016$cff59ea0$886bdc51@landloic> To: "idolisto" , Subject: tradukuri Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:44:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara amiki, Me ne trovis en la franca-ido dicionario la sequanta franca vorti : - la verbo : se sucider : - la substantivo : sucide : - l'adjektivo : sucidaire Me predankas vu sendar a me ca tradukuri. Amikale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1088 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38449 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2003 20:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Dec 2003 20:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ad.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Dec 2003 20:54:51 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ad.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hBBKsAtl029914 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:54:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:33:30 -0500 Subject: [linguo] Re: Hispana tradukuri bezonata Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312111535_MC3-1-5F89-F82@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.134 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Adrian, Danko pro vua helpo per qua me trovas ankore plusa informi. = Me mustas tamen questionar pri ula respondi. Vu skribis, e me adjuntas: B= ritano =3D Brit=E1nico. >> Ka ne Britano e Brit=F3nico, vorti quin me jus t= rovis, serchante Brit=E1nico (=3D Britaniano). Champania =3D Champagne (on= uzas la franca nomo) Indiano =3D Hind=FA. >> Tamen to semblas esar ambigu= a, signifikanta anke adepto di hinduismo. Do Hind=FA [de la India]? Kaukaz= o =3D Caucaso. >> Ka C=E1ucaso (tale en Hispana dicionario), o forsan li es= as alternativi? Kaukazia =3D Caucasia Pacifika =3D Pac=EDfico. >> Ka to e= sas la adjektivo, malgre mayuskulo? Somal.i-land.o=3D Somalia. >> Tamen se= mblas ke Somalia diferas de Somalilando qua esis teritorio di Afrika qua in= kluzis Somalia, Djibuti ed Etiopia sud-estala. Usano =3D Americano, estado= unidense Amikale, Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1089 Return-Path: X-Sender: conocimientopleno@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29180 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2003 14:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2003 14:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2003 14:53:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.116] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2003 14:53:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:53:35 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200312111535_MC3-1-5F89-F82@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1135 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.65 From: conocimientopleno@hotmail.com Subject: [linguo] Re: Hispana tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136053279 X-Yahoo-Profile: kanaria1973 Me, hodie lektis tua mesajo. Tre desfacila questioni, me devas pensar pri = oli. Forsan morge me povos respondar tu. Saluti Adri=E1n --- In linguolisto= @yahoogroups.com, "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@c...> wrote: > Kara Adrian= , > > Danko pro vua helpo per qua me trovas ankore plusa informi. > > Me = mustas tamen questionar pri ula respondi. > > Vu skribis, e me adjuntas: >= > Britano =3D Brit=E1nico. >> Ka ne Britano e Brit=F3nico, vorti quin me = jus > trovis, serchante Brit=E1nico (=3D Britaniano). > > Champania =3D Ch= ampagne (on uzas la franca nomo) > > Indiano =3D Hind=FA. >> Tamen to semb= las esar ambigua, signifikanta anke adepto > di hinduismo. Do Hind=FA [de = la India]? > > Kaukazo =3D Caucaso. >> Ka C=E1ucaso (tale en Hispana dicio= nario), o forsan li > esas alternativi? > > Kaukazia =3D Caucasia > > Pa= cifika =3D Pac=EDfico. >> Ka to esas la adjektivo, malgre mayuskulo? > > S= omal.i-land.o=3D Somalia. >> Tamen semblas ke Somalia diferas de Somalilan= do > qua esis teritorio di Afrika qua inkluzis Somalia, Djibuti ed Etiopia= > sud-estala. > > Usano =3D Americano, estadounidense > > Amikale, > > = Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1090 Return-Path: X-Sender: conocimientopleno@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86045 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2003 08:54:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2003 08:54:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2003 08:54:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.161] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2003 08:54:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:53:59 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 410 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Adri=E1n_Pastrana?= Subject: La vorto Indiano X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136053279 X-Yahoo-Profile: kanaria1973 Kara Robert: La vorto Indiano en hispana on darfas trakukar a "hind=FA" od = anke a "indio". Tamen, la du vorti havas ambigua signifiko. Hind=FA esas u= lu de la India ed anke esas adepto di hinduismo. Indio esas ulu de la India= ma anke esas ulu de la aborijena regioni di Amerika. En mea opiniono hind= =FA esas plu bona kam indio ma forsan oportas ke altra hispaniano opinione= z pri co. Saluti Adri=E1n Pastrana From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1091 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68688 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2003 13:16:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2003 13:16:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2003 13:16:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19294 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2003 13:16:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Dec 2003 13:16:12 -0000 Message-ID: <002701c3c569$6ed38620$886bdc51@landloic> To: Cc: References: Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:18:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [ido] Elekto dil direktanta komitato di ULI X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara anonimo, Vu es justa, me eroris pri "tradukto" e danko pro korektigi= r mea eroro. Koncerne "aparta" , en franca " =E0 part" havas la tri sequant= a signifikaji: 1) adverbiala frazeto: "il faut ranger ces livres =E0 part" = - " on mustas ordinar ca libri aparte" (sinonimo di aparte =3D separite) 2= ) adjektivala frazeto: " c'est un enfant =E0 part " - " esas enfanto aparta= " (sinonimo di aparta =3D partikulara) 3) prepozicionala frazeto: " A part = cela tout va bien" - " Aparte ito omno standas bone" (sinonimo di aparte = =3D ecepte) Do en la frazo di James "Me gratulas omna komitatani, aparte = ti qui ne antee esis membri.", la sinonimo di aparte esas ecepte. Esas pro= quo me skribis ke la frazo "Me gratulas omna komitatani, partikulare ( o "= precipue " segun Hans Stufbergen) ti qui ne antee esis membri.", semblas a= me plu justa. Kontre en la simpla frazo ""Me gratulas omna komitatani apa= rte.", la sinonimo di aparte esas separate. Por respondar a vua questiono= , me uzas la dicionario franca-ido di L. de Beaufront e L. Couturat (1915) = ube on trovas: =E0 part : (adj.) aparta; (adv) aparte particulier : (adj.) = partikulara; (priv=E9) privata, personala, aparta;(singulier, =E9trange) st= ranja; en - (=E0 part) aparte "En particulier" esas franca adverbiala fraz= eto quo signifikas "separite" o "personale" . Exemple: - "Ca questiono do= it =EAtre examin=E9e en particulier " - "Ca questiono mustas examinesar se= parite " - J'aimerai conna=EEtre l'avis d'un specialiste : le v=F4tre en pa= rticulier." - " Me prizus konocar la opiniono di specalisto : la vua person= ale" Fine me opinionas ke la definajo di vorto "particulier" en la diciona= rio franca-ido mustus kompletesar ca maniere: particulier : (adj.) partikul= ara; (priv=E9) privata, personala, aparta;(singulier, =E9trange) stranja; e= n - (=E0 part) aparte, (personellement) personale. Tale segun mea opiniono= la existanta dicionarii povus plubonigesar ca maniere se omni informar pri= sua miskomprenaji. Amikala saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- = De : cheal@hotpop.com =C0 : idolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : je= udi 18 d=E9cembre 2003 04:21 Objet : Re: [ido] Elekto dil direktanta komi= tato di ULI Kara Loik, en Ido ne existas la radiko "tradukt.". La f= ranca tradukuro de "aparta" es "particulier, =E0 part, s=E9par=E9". Co me= trovis en dicionario Ido-Fran=E7ais. Ka vu uzis altra dicionario? Me an= ke multe gratulas la membri de Idoespanyol pri lia dicionarii! --- In id= olisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loic Landais" wrote: > Kara = James, > Pri la la nova Direktanta Komitato di ULI, vu skribis a David We= ston : > > Me gratulas omna komitatani, aparte ti qui ne antee esis membr= i. > > La franca tradukto esas: "Je f=E9licite tous les membres du co= mit=E9, =E0 part ceux qui n'=E9taient pas membres avant." > Tale me kom= prenas ke vu gratulas omna komitatani ecepte ti qui ne antee esis membri.= > Esus interesanta savar se altra lingui havis ca sama komprenado ? > = > Ma me savas ke fakte esas la kontrajo quan me devas komprenar . > T= o esas: Me gratulas omna komitatani, partikulare ti qui ne antee esis mem= bri. > Kad esas me qua eroras o la dicionarii de Ido ? > Agnoskez ke I= do ne devus donar ca speco di miskomprenado. > > Kordiale e danko pro = vua gratuli. > Loik [Non-text portions of this message have been remove= d] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1092 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28538 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2003 08:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2003 08:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2003 08:38:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Dec 2003 08:38:13 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:38:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 944 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.65 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: La vorto Indiano X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Adri=E1n Pastrana skribis: > Kara Robert: > La vorto Indiano en hispana on= darfas trakukar a "hind=FA" od anke > a "indio". > Tamen, la du vorti hav= as ambigua signifiko. > Hind=FA esas ulu de la India ed anke esas adepto di= hinduismo. > Indio esas ulu de la India ma anke esas ulu de la aborijena r= egioni > di Amerika. > En mea opiniono hind=FA esas plu bona kam indio ma = forsan oportas ke > altra hispaniano opinionez pri co. > Saluti > Adri=E1n= Pastrana Me konkordas kun Adri=E1n. Amba vorti es aceptebla ed oficala, m= a amba vorti es anke ambigua, pro ke lor l'arivo dil Hispaniani ad Amerika= , en 1942, li kredis arivir ad India, e li nomizis la indijeni ye "indian= i". Me anke konkordas ke "hind=FA" es preferinda. Nu, por klarigar la konc= epto me skribus amba vorti (o nur "hind=FA" se nur un tradukuro esas selek= tenda) ma me explikus breve la signifiko: Indi.an.o: hind=FA, indio (natur= al de la India). Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1093 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@nefkom.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39832 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2003 16:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2003 16:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO epz01.nefonline.de) (212.204.66.1) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2003 16:20:35 -0000 Received: from privatdesktop (DSL01.212.114.237.117.NEFkom.net [212.114.237.117]) by epz01.nefonline.de (NEFkom Mailservice) with SMTP id hBKGKHg09471; Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:20:18 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c3c715$21d2a740$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Janna Reunova" , "Jennny" , "G�nter Schlemminger" , "Manfred Welper" , "Manfred Magin" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Idoskolo" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Robert Pontnau" Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 17:16:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.204.66.1 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Retroveno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=37097669 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara geamiki! Kun grandega joyo me povas informar vi, ke me hiere, quar se= mani pos mea unesma de du operaci, fine povis livar la hospitalo. Me itere = devos irar a kuracerio dum kelka semani, versimile pos la yarchanjo. Til lo= re la mediko rekomendis a me multe repozar, pro ke la kuracado ankore ne es= as kompleta. Me nun expektas la letro dil kuraceriestro kun l'informo, kand= e mea sejorno ibe komencos. Do, me nur kelke povos komputoragar dum la sequ= anta dii e probable devos finar ante ke la projetita agado esos finita, se = me esos tro fatigita. Pro to me duminstante certe nur apene partoprenos a l= a diskuti. Dum januaro me pro mea sejorno en la kuracerio itere nek povos l= ektar la mesaji, qui arivos en nia diskutforumi nek komputoragar e konseque= itere nur esos atingebla telefone. Me tre esperas, ke me pos la retroveno = ek la kuracerio itere plene povos laborar e komputoragar e konseque agar po= r Ido e preparar l'Ido-konfero en Kijiv. Ja dum la 04esma di decembro en me= a e-postfako arivis mesajo da Esperantisto de Kijiv, qua aranjis mea sejorn= o ibe dum la recenta somero. Il ofris a me helpo aranjar la konfereyo. Pro = ke me erste hiere povis lektar la mesajo me ankore ne povis respondar ol, m= a me certe facos lo dum ca semanofino. Me nun deziras a vi omna Joyoza Kri= stnasko ed omno bona por la yaro 2004. Kun la maxim kordiala ed amikala sa= luti e bondeziri por vi omna! Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1094 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@nefkom.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62055 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2003 14:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2003 14:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO epz01.nefonline.de) (212.204.66.1) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2003 14:53:14 -0000 Received: from privatdesktop (DSL01.212.114.234.71.NEFkom.net [212.114.234.71]) by epz01.nefonline.de (NEFkom Mailservice) with SMTP id hBOEr1u19893; Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:53:01 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c3ca2d$99c528c0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Frank Kasper" , "Robert Pontnau" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idoskolo" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Manfred Magin" , "Manfred Welper" , "G?nter Schlemminger" , "Jennny" , "Janna Reunova" Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:52:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.204.66.1 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Re: Joyoza Kristnaskofesto& Felica Nova Yaro por vi omna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=37097669 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara gesamideani! Me kordialege dankas ad omni, qui sendis a me gratuli e bondeziri pro ke me povis livar la hospitalo. Me nun deziras a vi omna ed a via familiani Joyoza Kristnaskofesto ed agreabla lasta dii dum la yaro 2003, saneso e multa plezuro. Cetere me deziras a vi omna Felica Nova Yaro, dum qua ni expektas kelka Ido-eventi, quale la konstitucado di nova Direktanta komitato, la kreado di nova idaji ed Ido-renkontri dum mayo en Francia e dum julio en Ukrainia. Saluti amikala From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1095 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 11662 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2003 21:36:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Dec 2003 21:36:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr4.sis.it) (217.72.32.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2003 21:36:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 10798 invoked by uid 108); 24 Dec 2003 22:53:35 +0100 Received: from narcar@sis.it by fr4 by uid 102 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc4 (clamuko: 0.60. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.628922 secs); 24 Dec 2003 23:53:35 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: narcar@sis.it via fr4 X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20rc4 (Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.628922 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO nardinic) (217.72.33.140) by 0 with SMTP; 24 Dec 2003 22:53:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3ca6a$1ab32cc0$8c2148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 23:05:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.27 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Verbi ergativa X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Me gratitudas Bebson Takata, linguala genio Japoniana, pro atencigar la partikulareso dil verbo ergativa (1). Tala verbo es sive transitiva, sive netransitiva, en specala maniero: l'objekto dil verbo transitiva es la subjekto dil verbo netransitiva (videz suba exempli). La KGD traktas la verbi ergativa sub la qualifiko plu ampla di "verbi mixita" (me konocis ta verbi per tala qualifiko). Me expozos hike mea listo di verbi ergativa. Me anke skribabas pri ergativeso mikra esayo, +quun me projetas sendar a la redakteri di Progreso, por eventuala publikigo. ---------- PROVIZORA LISTO DI VERBI ERGATIVA ALITERACAR ...Caesar aliteracis la frazo "veni, vidi, vici". La frazo "veni, vidi, vici" aliteracas (2). AUGMENTAR ...La komercisti augmentis la preci. La preci augmentas sen-cese. AVANCAR ...La shak-ludanto avancas la rejo-piono. La nigra pioni avancas minacoze. BIFURKAR ...Hike la projetanti bifurkis la strado. Hike la strado bifurkas. BRULAR ...La konquestanti brulis l'urbo. L'urbo brulis komplete. CESAR ...Li cesis la disputo. Lia disputo mustis cesar. CHANJAR ...Il chanjis sua opiniono pri el. Lua opiniono chanjis pro nova informi. DIMINUTAR ...Oportas diminutar la spensi. La spensi diminutas se la revenuo diminutas. DURAR ...La pueri duris la ludo. La ludo duras de du hori. FINAR ...Necesesas finar la laboro. La laboro finos kande omno funcionos bone. FLEXAR ...Ulixes flexis sen-esforce l'arko. L'arko ne flexis malgre la esforci. FRITAR ...La koquisto fritas la potati. La potati fritas en la padelo. FRIZAR ...La kuafisto frizas la hari. Elua hari frizas nature. INKLINAR ...La sismo inklinis la turmo. La turmo inklinas danjeroze. KOAGULAR ...Koagulivi koagulas la sango. La sango koagulas ye l'aero. KOMENCAR ...L'advokato komencis la deklamo. Lua deklamo komencis per expozo dil precedenti. KONJELAR ...Koldo konjelas aquo. Aquo kongelas ye 0�. KOQUAR ...La ruranino koquas la pano. La pano mustas ne tro koquar. KREVAR ...El krevis ilua kordio. Ilua kordio krevis pro l'abandono da el. KREVISAR ...La servistino krevisis la vazo. La vazo krevisis pro frapeto da ventizilo. MACERAR ...Ca bandajo maceras la pelo. La pelo maceras sub la bandajo. MOVAR ...La pastoro movis la trupo. La trupo movis a nova pastureyo. PASAR ...Ni pasis la tempo lektante. La tempo pasis tre rapide. PASTURAR ...La bov-gardisto pasturas la bovi en la prato. La bovi pasturas tranquile. PENDAR ...Li pendis la lustro an la plafono. La lustro pendas de la plafono. PLAUDAR ...La oari* (3) plaudas l'aquo. L'aquo plaudas kontre la rifi. RALIAR ...La komandanto raliis la soldati. La soldati raliis en la kazerno. RENVERSAR ...Ta evento renversis la esperi. L'esperi renversis mizeroze. ROSTAR ...La koquisto rostas la karno ye la spiso. La karno rostas ye la fairo. RULAR ...Il rulis l'okuli ante mortar. Lua okuli rulis ante la morto. SINKAR ...L'avion-eskadro sinkis multa navi enemika. Multa navi sinkis en la batalio. STARTAR ...L'arbitranto startas la kur-konkurso. La kur-konkurso jus startabas. TURNAR ...La muliero turnis lente la klefo. La klefo turnis en la klef-truo. ---------- Manke di oficala kompleta vortaro, me opinionas ke on povus sen-remorse konsiderar kom ergativa, uzebla anke netransitive, la sequanta verbi, qualifikita kom transitiva en la vortari: DRONAR DEVELOPAR PRECIPITAR KONDENSAR FUZAR L'uzo netransitiva di ula ek ta verbi es preske nekareebla en la cienco. --- Me anke opinionas ke on povus konsiderar kom ergativa, uzebla anke transitive, la sequanta verbi, qualifikita kom netransitiva en la vortari: BOLIAR HALTAR ALTERNAR KRAKAR KRESKAR ---------- (1) Ergativ.a*. Defino en la texto. A ergative. F ergatif. G ergativ. H ergativo. I ergativo. R ? (2) Me venis, me vidis, me vinkis. (3) Oar.o*. Provizora, vice ridikula "remilo", espritajo esperantala. A oar. F rame. G Ruder. H remo. I remo. R vyeslo. L remus. Gr kope. ---------- Bona Yulo (Kristo-nasko) e felica nova yaro a omni, partikulare a retroveninta Frank Kasper. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1096 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69542 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2003 21:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2003 21:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2003 21:51:33 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hBSLpXCQ021836 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:51:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:40:10 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312281642_MC3-1-6306-2421@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.133 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Verbi *ergativa X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Danko, Carlo Nardini, pro vua komenti interesiva pri verbi *ergativa. Pri la Angla vorto "ergative", me konsultis quar dicionarii ed anke libro pri linguo e lingui. Omni mencionis senco, altra kam vua, qua koncernas specala kazo di substantivo en poka lingui (exemple la Eskimoa). Nur du (du dicionarii) ek la quar mencionas anke la senco verbala pri qua vu skribas. Kad en altra lingui la vorto anke havas du senci? Vu skribis: >Manke di oficala kompleta vortaro, me opinionas ke on povus sen-remorse konsiderar kom ergativa, uzebla anke netransitive, la sequanta verbi, qualifikita kom transitiva en la vortari: DRONAR DEVELOPAR PRECIPITAR KONDENSAR FUZAR L'uzo netransitiva di ula ek ta verbi es preske nekareebla en la cienco. --- Me anke opinionas ke on povus konsiderar kom ergativa, uzebla anke transitive, la sequanta verbi, qualifikita kom netransitiva en la vortari: BOLIAR HALTAR ALTERNAR KRAKAR KRESKAR< Me ne opinionas ke on darfas konsiderar ed uzar tale verbi qui en la vortolibri di Ido ne esas tala. Vu darfas propozar chanjo. Takaze esus utila se vu povas explikar, se posibla, principo o sistemo per qua ni povas decidar qua verbi meritas esar *ergativa. Forsan parte, ma nur parte, me povas divinar, ma me volas savar ka vua uzas kriterio o kriterii (altra kam personala prefero!). Bona e Sucesoza Nova Yaro a vu ed ad omna lektanti! Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1097 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 70547 invoked from network); 29 Dec 2003 10:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Dec 2003 10:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Dec 2003 10:49:00 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hBTAmoeX003724 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:18:50 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id hBTAmn10003721 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:18:50 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:18:49 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: Linguo Listo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: stan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara amiki, Me jus pensis pri la "stan" di "Afghani-", "Paki-", "Tadjiki-" e.c. Kad ol signifikas la lando di la Paki, Tadjiki e.c.? Se yes, forsan on devas nomizar la landi en Ido kom "Afgania", "Pakia", "Tadjikia", e habitanto kom "Afgano"/"Afganiano", "Pako"/"Pakiano", "Tadjiko"/"Tadjikiano" e.c. Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1098 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16649 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2003 22:06:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2003 22:06:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.136) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2003 22:06:48 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id hBUM6ioo023722 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:06:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:03:39 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200312301604_MC3-1-6378-D584@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.136 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] stan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Michael, En Esperanto on trovas "Afganio, Afganujo, Afganlando", e "Tag^ikio, Tag^ikujo", tamen "Pakistano", pro ke la lasta nomo ne havas kom bazo la nomo di membro di populo. La vorto "Pakistan" inventesis (adminime segun un libro) en la frua yari pos 1930 da studenti Islamista ye la universitato di Cambridge en Anglia, uzante la bazo "Punjab, Afghanistan e Kashmir" (tale PAK) e la sufixo "stan" (= lando). Me supozas ke la vokalo "i" insertesis por facila pronunco ed analoge kun ula altra landnomi (la libro ne explikas). Samtempe (ol dicas) esas vortoludo per la Persa vorto "pak" (pura), tale ke Pakistan konsideresis anke esar "lando di puri". Ne existis "Pako". En la stato esas diversa populi e lingui. La originala "Pakistan" nun esas du stati, plu mikra "Pakistan", e "Bangladesh". En Ido ni ja havas "Afganistan". Landnomi semblas esar neposible regulizebla. Me kredas ke probable maxim bona esas adoptar formi maxim internaciona. Do me propozos la formo "Pakistan". Robert C. __________ >Kara amiki, Me jus pensis pri la "stan" di "Afghani-", "Paki-", "Tadjiki-" e.c. Kad ol signifikas la lando di la Paki, Tadjiki e.c.? Se yes, forsan on devas nomizar la landi en Ido kom "Afgania", "Pakia", "Tadjikia", e habitanto kom "Afgano"/"Afganiano", "Pako"/"Pakiano", "Tadjiko"/"Tadjikiano" e.c. Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1099 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24311 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2003 08:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2003 08:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2003 08:55:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.124] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2003 08:55:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 08:55:22 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c3ca6a$1ab32cc0$8c2148d9@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3434 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Verbi ergativa X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Carlo Nardini, vu skribis: "Me gratitudas Bebson Takata, linguala genio Japoniana, pro atencigar la partikulareso dil verbo ergativa (1). Tala verbo es sive transitiva, sive netransitiva, en specala maniero: l'objekto dil verbo transitiva es la subjekto dil verbo netransitiva (videz suba exempli). La KGD traktas la verbi ergativa sub la qualifiko plu ampla di "verbi mixita" (me konocis ta verbi per tala qualifiko)." Ma ka ta uzado ne esas kontrea al postulo di unasenco en nia linguo? Exemple, quo es la signifiko di "avancar"? Kad "irar adavane" (uzo netransitiva), o "igar altru/o irar adavane" (uzo transitiva)? Forsan ta mikra ambigueso povus esar danjeroze konfundigiva por multi. Se me ne eroras, existas altra verbi qui anke darfas uzesar transitive o netransitive. Exemple: manjar, drinkar, lektar, edc. Me darfas exemple dicar: "Me lektis pri la afero en la jurnalo". O me darfas dicar: "Me lektis dum la tota nokto". Segun mea kompreno, verbi quala ci esas precipue transitiva: Ne es posibla manjar, drinkar o lektar "netransitive", to esas, sen manjar, drinkar o lektar ULO. Se me lektis dum la tota nokto, me lektis ya ula kozo. Ma kande ne importas quon on manjas drinkas o lektas, on darfas omisar la objekto, ed uzar la verbo netransitive. Es evidenta ke en ta kazi, la subjekto di ca verbi ne esas l'objekto di simila frazo en qua ta verbi funcionas transitive. To povus pensigar ke la verbi "ergativa" povus esar uzata simile: se la objekto omisesas, to ne signifikus ke la subjekto devas prenesar kom objekto, ma ke l'objekto ne interesas. Vua exempli esas neambigua tarespekte, ma ni imaginez frazo quala: "Me vekas". Segun vua exempli, to signifikas: "Me cesas dormar". Ma segun l'exemplo "Me lektas", to povus signifikar: "Me igis altra homi cesar dormar (ma ne importas qui esas ta homi)". La solvuro es, meaopinione, ke la verbi "ergativa" uzesez nur kom verbi transitiva. E por donar l'ideo di netransitiveso, on uzez la voco pasiva, o la pronomi reflexiva, se on povas imaginar ke la subjekto es la sama ento kam la objekto. Do, vua exempli pri "AVANCAR" esus: AVANCAR La shak-ludanto avancas la rejo-piono. La nigra pioni avancesas (od "esas avancata") minacoze. (pro ke la ludanto avancas li). E vua exempli pri "MOVAR" esus: MOVAR La pastoro movis la trupo. La trupo movis SU a nova pastureyo. (Pro ke la trupo ipsa facis la movo). Parenteze, "VEKAR" esus anke nur verbo transitiva, e por indikar netransitiveso, on uzus anke la pronomi reflexiva, quo es tre simila al uzado en la lingui nov-latina: Me vekas me ye 6 kloki. (ME despierto a las 6 / Je ME reveille... / MI sveglio...). Ma on povus anke dicar: Me vekESis (od ESIS VEKATA) dal bruiso, dal telefono, edc. Altra posiblajo (min konvinkanta segun me) esus konsiderar ta verbi kom netransitiva. E takaze, por montrar la nuanco dil exempli transitiva, on devus uzar la sufixo "-ig-": AVANCAR La shak-ludanto avancIGas la rejo-piono. (Lu igis ol avancar). La nigra pioni avancas minacoze. MOVAR La pastoro movIGis la trupo. La trupo movis a nova pastureyo. VEKAR El vekIGas sua filii por irar al skolo. El vekis tre frue hodie. > Me anke skribabas pri ergativeso mikra esayo, +quun me projetas sendar a la > redakteri di Progreso, por eventuala publikigo. Me multe esperas lektor ta esayo. Altralatere, me deziras a vu ed ad omna forumano tre felica yaro 2004. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1100 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 81476 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2003 19:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2003 19:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr4.sis.it) (217.72.32.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2003 19:14:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 7998 invoked by uid 108); 31 Dec 2003 20:30:06 +0100 Received: from narcar@sis.it by fr4 by uid 102 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc4 (clamuko: 0.60. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.937106 secs); 31 Dec 2003 21:30:06 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: narcar@sis.it via fr4 X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20rc4 (Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.937106 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO nardinic) (217.72.33.109) by 0 with SMTP; 31 Dec 2003 20:30:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3cfd6$7b330cc0$6d2148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 20:44:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.27 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Respondo pri verbi ergativa* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus ### Robert Carnaghan skribis: <<< Pri la Angla vorto "ergative" ... [me trovis] senco, qua koncernas specala kazo di substantivo en poka lingui ... altra kam la senco verbala pri qua vu skribas. Kad en altra lingui la vorto anke havas du senci? >>> Yes. Me explikas origino e senco dil vorto "ergativa" en mea esayo pri "ergativeso", probable sendota a la redakteri di Progreso. Yen extraktajo: "Historie la vorto "ergativa" venus de la terminaro uzata de la 19.sma yar-cento, por indikar partikulara gramatikala kazo, la "kazo ergativa"... ### Me skribabis: <<< Manke di oficala kompleta vortaro, me opinionas ke on povus sen-remorse konsiderar kom ergativa, uzebla anke netransitive, la sequanta verbi, qualifikita kom transitiva en la vortari: DRONAR, DEVELOPAR, PRECIPITAR, KONDENSAR, FUZAR. Me anke opinionas ke on povus konsiderar kom ergativa, uzebla anke transitive, la sequanta verbi, qualifikita kom netransitiva en la vortari: BOLIAR, HALTAR, ALTERNAR, KRAKAR, KRESKAR. >>> ### Robert Carnaghan objecionis (1): <<< Me ne opinionas ke on darfas konsiderar ed uzar tale verbi qui en la vortolibri di Ido ne esas tala. Vu darfas propozar chanjo. Esus utila se vu povas explikar, se posibla, principo o sistemo per qua ni povas decidar qua verbi meritas esar *ergativa. >>> ### Me replikas a Robert Carnaghan. La vortolibri Idala es freque deskonkordanta pri transitiveso/netransitiveso dil verbi, exemple: - augmentar: tr. por Persiko, tr. e netr. por Dyer - konjelar: tr. por Persiko, tr. e netr. por Dyer - pasar: netr. por Persiko, tr. e netr. por Dyer - koquar: tr. por Persiko e por Dyer, tr. e netr. por Feder e por Guignon ....e.c. Pro to la kriterio "vortarala" ne povas esar absoluta. Adminime en la kazi di deskonkordo, onu MUSTAS facar selekto inter diferanta qualifiki, to.e. irar kontre ul vortaro. Nura posibla selekt-kriterio es por me olta "linguistikala", t.e. olta relatanta uzado en la lingui naturala. Exemple, me inkluzis "koquar" en la listo di verbi ergativa*, malgre Dyer e Persiko, ma segun Feder e Guignon , konsiderante la sequanta AFGHI-ajo: KOQUAR A cook..... tr./netr. F cuire.... tr./netr. G kochen... tr./netr. H cocer.... tr./netr. I cuocere.. tr./netr. Exploro dil AFGHIR-lingui indikis sen-ambigue ke radiko "koqu.ar", da l'AFGHIR-lingui genitita, havas ergativeso* intrinseka, heredala por tale dicar, +quu povas sen-arbitrie igesar extrinseka. Dil exter-lista verbi, nun qualifikita kom nur transitiva o netransitiva, e da me propozata kom ergativa*, me donos sube l'AFGHI-ajo pertinenta* (Roze), sur +quu onu povos +bazar l'eventuala decido pri chanjo. Por ergativeso* di ula ek ta verbi existas unanimeso AFGHI-ala. Ma me opinionas ke unanimeso ne es necesa. Se on judikas utila l'uzo ergativa* di ul verbo, mem nur partala suporto AFGHI-ala povas suficar (2). ---------- DRONAR A drown............. tr./netr. F noyer............. tr. G ertr�nken......... tr. (ertrinken netr.) H ahogar (anegar)... tr. I affogare(annegare) tr./netr. DEVELOPAR A develop........ tr./netr. F d�velopper..... tr. G entwickeln..... tr. H desenvolver.... tr. I sviluppare..... tr./netr. PRECIPITAR A precipitate.... tr./netr. F pr�cipiter..... tr./netr. en kemio. G st�rzen........ tr./netr.(pr�zipitieren netr. en kemio) H precipitar..... tr./netr. en kemio I precipitare.... tr./netr. KONDENSAR A condense....... tr./netr. F condenser...... tr. G kondensieren... tr./netr. H condensar...... tr. I condensare..... tr. FUZAR A melt (fuse). tr./netr. F fondre...... tr./netr. G schmelzen... tr./netr. H fundir...... tr./netr. I fondere..... tr./netr. --- BOLIAR A boil..... tr./netr. F boillir.. tr./netr. G sieden... tr./netr. H bullir... netr. I bollire.. tr./netr. HALTAR A halt..... tr./netr. F arr�ter.. tr./netr. G halten... tr./netr. H parar.... tr./netr. I fermare.. tr./netr. ALTERNAR A alternate.... tr./netr. F alterner..... tr./netr. G alternieren.. tr./netr. H alternar..... tr./netr. I alternare.... tr./netr. KRAKAR A crack......... tr./netr. F craquer....... tr./netr. G krachen....... tr./netr. H crujir........ netr. I scricchiolare. netr. (schiantare tr./netr.) KRESKAR A grow...... tr./netr. F cro�tre... netr. G wachsen... netr. H crecer.... netr. I crescere.. tr./netr. ---------- (1) R. Carnaghan ja altra-foye expresis sua penso pri relatanta temo. <<< Komentante plu generale pri transitiveso e netransitiveso, esus kaoso se Idisti desegardus la reguli di la linguo, e same por irga linguo. Esas por me regretinda ke on NE darfas dicar "la hundo dronis [mortis per drono] en la rivero" (nam "dronar" esas nur transitiva)... On darfas argumentar por chanji en la linguo, ma dume on mustas aceptar la gramatiko quale ol esas...>>>. Mesajo 9844 a Idolisto, 20 Septembro 2003. Dume, por ne desquietigar la frendi*, me preirigas da "+" vorti existanta, da me uzata neformale ma rezone e mem, me kredas, darfe. (2) En biologio, karaktero dominacanta povas esar transmisata a la decendanti da nur un ek du genitori. ---------- P.S. - Last-instante me lektas la mesajo da Eduardo A. Rodi. Respondo trovesas en mea esayo pri ergativeso*. Dume, E.A.R. konsiderez la sequanta frazi: - lu dronis sua spozino [formo transitiva aktiva] - lun repugnas la sango; lu ne uzis kultelo nek pistolo, lu dronis [formo transitiva kun objekto tacita, quala "lu manjas, lu lektas"] - lua spozino dronesis (forsan da lu) [formo transitiva pasiva] - lua spozino dronis su (pro sua volo) [formo reflektiva] - lua spozino +dronis (pro mala chanco) [formo netransitiva]. En ica exempli, unu diferanta de l'altru, es sintezala respondo ad ula questioni. Singla formo verbala es necesa por preciza expreso dil penso: - lu ne dronis sua spozino, el +dronis pro mala chanco - lua spozino ne +dronis, el dronis su - lua spozino ne dronis su, el dronesis e.c. Me konsilas anke lektar la esayo pri "Transitiveso en Ido", partikulare la punto (g), da Gon�alo Neves, che lua retala situo. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1101 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74748 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2004 22:00:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2004 22:00:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ae.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.7) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2004 22:00:46 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id i04M0jAS029536; Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:00:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 16:58:55 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: uli-ido , Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401041700_MC3-1-6471-6998@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.7 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Transitiveso di verbi (*ergativa ed altra) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Carlo Nardini ed altri, Carlo Nardini skribis, interaltre, al forumo "Linguo": >La vortolibri Idala es freque deskonkordanta pri transitiveso/netransitiveso dil verbi, exemple: - augmentar: tr. por Persiko, tr. e netr. por Dyer - konjelar: tr. por Persiko, tr. e netr. por Dyer - pasar: netr. por Persiko, tr. e netr. por Dyer - koquar: tr. por Persiko e por Dyer, tr. e netr. por Feder e por Guignon ....e.c. Pro to la kriterio "vortarala" ne povas esar absoluta. Adminime en la kazi di deskonkordo, onu MUSTAS facar selekto inter diferanta qualifiki, to.e. irar kontre ul vortaro.< Yes, vu esas justa. Me savas pri ta problemo, me mencionis ol a kelka personi, e me kompilas detali ek vortolibri Idala pri tala verbi problemoza. Esas falio ke dum yardeki nulo facesis pri la problemo. Semblas a me ke la Direktanta Komitato di ULI mustas decidar sive (1) ke un vortolibro esas plu valida kam la altri, sive (2) quale traktar singla verbo problemoza. Tale por futura vortolibri esos klara qua informo pri (ne)transitiveso esas donenda pri singla verbo (e ne nur pri verbi *ergativa, ma evidente omna verbi pri qui nia vortolibri ne konkordas). Nova vortolibri mustas konkordar se ni esas serioza pri la linguo. Vua helpo povas esar valoroza. Sen decidi oficala pri tala verbi, nia linguo esas tante necerta ke por sat multa verbi nulu savas qua uzo esas justa e qua esas nejusta, od alternative on pensas ke on savas, uzante nur un vortaro e ne egardante la altri. Tamen ni bezonos ferma bazo por facar finala decidi, e pro to me questionis pri vua metodo. Danko pro vua respondo. Pro ke nur la DK povas solvar la problemo, me sendas kopiuro di co ad olua membri. Me ne intencis mencionar ol til faco da me di plu multa exploro, ma pro ke vu mencionas ol nun, me volas agnoskar vua punto, e me informas la nova DK ke la problemo existas e bezonas trakto. Ne suficas, quale on facis til nun, "pozar nia kapi en sablo"! Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1102 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77273 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2004 21:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2004 21:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaab1ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.2) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2004 21:22:36 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaab1ab.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.8) id i05LMZue025522 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:22:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:21:19 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401051622_MC3-1-6493-E892@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.2 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Nomi geografiala Ido-Franca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo Ido-Franca di nomi geografiala e di populani (e poka lingui) Rob= ert C. _______________ Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri)= oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro Ido : Franca Ab= isini.a : Abyssinie Acor.i : les A=E7ores Afgan.o : Afghan Afganistan : l'A= fghanistan Afrik.a : l'Afrique Akadi.a : l'Acadie Akay.a : l'Acha=EFe Alask= .a : Alaska Albani.a : l'Albanie Aleut.i : =EEles Al=E9outiennes Algarv.o := Algarve Aljer : Alger Aljeri.a : l'Alg=E9rie Alp.i [mont.] : les Alpes Alz= aci.a : l'Alsace Amerik.a : l'Am=E9rique Amhar.a : Amhara [pays] Amhar.an.a= : amharique Anam : l'Annam Anatoli.a : l'Anatolie And.i [mont.] : les Ande= s Andaluzi.a : l'Andalousie Andor.a : le Val d'Andorre Angl.a : anglais Ang= l.o : Anglais Angli.a : l'Angleterre Angol.a : Angola Anhalt : l'Anhalt [du= ch=E9] Antil.i : les Antilles Apenin.i [mont.] : les Apennins Apuli.a : l'A= pulie Aquitan.o : Aquitain Aquitani.a : l'Aquitanie Arab.a : arabe Arab.o := Arabe Arabi.a : l'Arabie Aragon : l'Aragon Arame.a : Aram [pays d'] Arame.= an.a : aram=E9en Argolid.o : l'Argolide Argovi.a : Argovie [canton] Arjenti= ni.a : l'Argentine Arkadi.a : l'Arcadie Armeni.a : l'Arm=E9nie Arverni.a : = l'Auvergne Aryan.a : aryen [race, langue] Aryan.o : Aryen Asiri.a : l'Assyr= ie Asturi.a : les Asturies Atlantik.a [mar.] : atlantique Atlantik.o [mar.]= : l'Atlantique Aulid.o : l'Aulide Australazi.a : Australasie Australi.a : = l'Australia Austri.a : l'Autriche Avan-Azi.a : l'Asie-Mineure Azerbaijan : = Azerba=EFdjan Azi.a : l'Asie Badeni.a : [le Gr.-D. de] Bade Baham.a : (les)= Bahamas Baktri.a : la Bactriane Balear.i : les [=EEles] Bal=E9ares Banglad= esh : Bangladesh Barbados : la Barbade Bavari.a : la Bavi=E8re Beduin.o : B= =E9douin [en g=E9n=E9ral] Belg.o : Belge Belgi.a : la Belgique Belize : B= =E9lize Beludj.o : B=E9loutche Beludjistan : le B=E9loutchistan Bengal : le= Bengale Benin : B=E9nin Beoti.a : la B=E9otie Berber.o : Berb=E8re Berberi= .a : Berb=E9rie Bermud.i : les Bermudes Besarabi.a : la Bessarabie Betlehem= : Bethl=E9hem Bitini.a : la Bithynie Blank.a-Mont.o [mont.] : le Mont-Blan= c Bohemi.a : la Boh=EAme Bolivi.a : la Bolivie Borne.o : Born=E9o [=EEle] B= osni.a : la Bosnie Botswan.a : Botswana Brabant : le Brabant Brazili.a : le= Br=E9sil Breton.o : Breton Bretoni.a : la Bretagne Britan.o : Breton (de G= rande-Bretagne, membre du peuple ancien celtique) Britani.a : la Grande-Bre= tagne Britani.an.a : britannique Brunei : Brunei Brunsvig : le Brunswick [d= uch=E9] Bukhari.a : la Boukharie Bulgari.a : la Bulgarie Bur.o : Boer Burgu= nd.o : Burgonde Burgundi.a : la Bourgogne Burm.a : la Birmanie Burundi : Bu= rundi Bushman.o : Boshiman, Bosjeman Ceylon : Ceylan [=EEle] Champani.a : l= a Champagne Chek.o : Tch=E8que Chekoslovaki.a : la Tch=E9coslovaquie Chili = : le Chili Chini.a : (la) Chine Chini.an.a : chinois [adj.] Chini.an.o : Ch= inois [personne] Chipr.o : Chypre [=EEle] Cilici.a : la Cilicie Cirkasi.a := la Circasie Daci.a : la Dacie Dalmati.a : la Dalmatie Dan.o : Danois Dani.= a : le Danemark Danubi.o [fl.] : le Danube Dardanel.i [mar.] : les Dardanel= les Doming.a Republik.o : la R=E9publique Dominicaine Dominik.a : Dominique= [=EEle] Dori.an.a : dorien Egad.i : les [=EEles] Egades Egipti.a : l'Egypt= e Eoli.a : =C9olie [nom propre: g=E9ogr.] Eoli.an.a : d'=C9olie Epir.o : l'= Epire Equador : (la r=E9publique de) l'=C9quateur Eritre.a : l'=C9rythr=E9e= Eskimo.o : Esquimau [race] Estoni.a : l'Esthonie Etiopi.a : l'Ethiopie Eto= li.a : l'Etolie Etruri.a : l'Etrurie Europ.a : l'Europe Europ.an.a : europ= =E9en Europ.an.o : Europ=E9en Fair.o-Ter.o : (la) Terre-de-Feu Falkland : l= es (=EEles) Falkland Fenici.a : (la) Ph=E9nicie Fernandop.o : (l'=EEle de) = Fernando Po Fidji : [les =EEles] Fidji Filipin.i : les [=EEles] Philippines= Finland.o : (la) Finlande Flandr.a : flamand Flandr.o : Flamand Flandri.a = : (la) Flandre Focid.o : (la) Phocide Formoz.a : [l'=EEle] Formose Franc.a = : fran=E7ais Franc.o : Fran=E7ais Franci.a : (la) France Frankoni.a : (la) = Franconie Frigi.a : (la) Phrygie Frizi.a : (la) Frise Gabon : Gabon Galati.= a : (la) Galatie Galici.a : (la) Galicie Galile.a : (la) Galil=E9e Galisi.a= : (la) Galice Gall.o : Gaulois Galli.a : (la) Gaule Gaskon.o : Gascon Gask= oni.a : (la) Gascogne Genov.a : G=EAnes [la ville de] German.o : Allemand, = Germain Germani.a : Allemagne, (la) Germanie Got.a : des Goths Got.o : Goth= [race] Goti.a : (la) Gothie, G=F6taland Grek.a : grec Grek.o : Grec Greki.= a : (la) Gr=E8ce Grenland.o : (le) Groenland Gruzi.a : (la) Grusie, G=E9org= ie Guadelup.a : (la) Guadeloupe Guatemal.a : (le) Guat=E9mala Guayan.a : (l= a) Guyane, (les) Guyanes Guine.a : (la) Guin=E9e Haiti : [l'=EEle de] Ha=EF= ti Havayi : [les =EEles] Hawa=EF Hebre.a : h=E9bra=EFque, h=E9breu Hebre.o = : H=E9breu Hebrid.i : [les =EEles] H=E9brides Helvet.o : Helv=E8te, Helv=E9= tien Helveti.a : l'Helv=E9tie Herzegovin.a : l'Herz=E9govine Hesi.a : la He= sse Himalay.a [mont.] : l'Himalaya Hispan.o : Espagnol Hispani.a : l'Espagn= e Holand.o : la Hollande Honduras : (le) Honduras Hungari.a : la Hongrie Hu= ngari.an.o : Hongrois Iberi.a : la p=E9ninsule Ib=E9rique Ierusalem : J=E9r= usalem Indi.a : l'Inde Indi.an.o : Indien [de l'Inde] Indonezi.a : Indon=E9= sie Ioni.a : l'Ionie Ioni.an.a : ionien Irak : Iraq, Irak Iran : Iran Irlan= d.o : l'Irlande Island.o : l'Islande Israel : Isra=EBl Istri.a : l'Istrie I= tali.a : l'Italie Itali.an.o : Italien Ivor.a Riv.o : la C=F4te-d'Ivoire Iz= rael.id.o : Isra=E9lite Jamaik.a : la Jama=EFque Japoni.a : le Japon Japoni= .an.a : japonais [adj.] Japoni.an.o : Japonais Jav.a : [l'=EEle de] Java Jo= rdan [fl.] : Jourdain Jordani.a : Jordanie Jud.o : Juif Jude.a : la Jud=E9e= Kab.o di Bon Esper.o : le Cap de Bonne-Esp=E9rance Kab.land.o : le Cap Kab= verd.o : le Cap Vert Kafr.o : Cafre [race] Kalabri.a : la Calabre Kalde.a := la Chald=E9e Kaliforni.a : la Californie Kambodj.a : le Cambodge Kamchatk.= a : le Kamtchatka Kamerun : le Cameroun Kampani.a : la Campanie Kanaan : [l= e pays de] Canaan Kanaan.an.a : canan=E9en Kanad.a : le Canada Kanal.o [mar= .] : (la) Manche Kanari.i : [les =EEles] Canaries Kapadoci.a : la Cappadoce= Karinti.a : la Carinthie Karpat.i [mont.] : les [monts] Carpathes Kashmir = : le Cachemire Kastili.a : la Castille Kataluni.a : la Catalogne Katar : Qa= tar, Katar Kaukaz.o [mont.] : le Caucase Kaukazi.a : la Caucasie Khiv.a : [= le khanat de] Khiva Kolchid.o : la Colchide Kolumbi.a : la Colombie Konstan= tinopl.o : Constantinople Kordilier.i [mont.] : les Cordilli=E8res Kore.a := la Cor=E9e Kore.an.o : Cor=E9en Kornwal : Cornwall, les Cornouailles Korsi= k.a : la Corse Koshinchini.a : la Cochinchine Kostarik.a : Costa-Rica Kroat= i.a : la Croatie Kub.a : Cuba Kurland.o : Courlande Kuwait : Kowe=EFt Lag.o= di Quar Kanton.i [mar.] : Lac des Quatre Cantons Lagos : (le) Lagos Laos := Laos Lapon.o : Lapon Laponi.a : la Laponie Latv.a : latvien Latv.o : Lette= , Letton, Lettique Latvi.a : Lettonie Liban.o : (le) Liban Liberi.a : (la) = Lib=E9rie Libi.a : (la) Libye Lici.a : (la) Lycie Lidi.a : (la) Lydie Ligur= i.a : (la) Ligurie Likaoni.a : (la) Lycaonie Lituani.a : (la) Lithuanie Liv= oni.a : (la) Livonie Lombardi.a : (la) Lombardie London : Londres Luxemburg= : Luxembourg [ville] Luxemburgi.a : (le) Luxembourg Macedoni.a : (la) Mac= =E9doine Madagaskar : Madagascar Madeir.a : (l'=EEle de) Mad=E8re Madyar.o = : Madgyar Malawi : Malawi Malay.o : Malais Mali : Mali Malt.a : [l'=EEle de= ] Malte Mandjur.o : Mandchou [race] Mandjuri.a : Mandchourie Marian.i : [le= s =EEles] Mariannes Marok.o : [le] Maroc Marquesas : [les =EEles] Marquises= Martinik.a : (la) Martinique Mauric.o : [l'=EEle] Maurice Mauritani.a : [l= a] Mauritanie Mayork.a : [l'=EEle de] Majorque Med.o : M=E8de [race] Medi.a= : [la] M=E9die Mediterane.a [mar.] : m=E9diterran=E9en Mediterane.o [mar.]= : (la mer) M=E9diterran=E9e Mexik.o : Mexico [ville] Mexiki.a : [le] Mexiq= ue Mexiki.an.o : Mexicain Mezopotami.a : [la] M=E9sopotamie Minork.a : [l'= =EEle de] Minorque Mizi.a : [la] Mysie Moab.id.o : Moabite Moabi.a : le pay= s de Moab Moabi.an.o : Moabite Moldavi.a : [la] Moldavie Monak.o : Monaco M= ongol.o : Mongol Mongoli.a : [la] Mongolie Montenegr.o : [le] Mont=E9n=E9gr= o Moravi.a : [la] Moravie Mort.int.a Mar.o [mar.] : [la] Mer Morte Mozambik= : Mozambique Nabate.i : Nabat=E9ens [peuple] Namibi.a : Namibie Natal : (l= e) Natal Navar.a : (la) Navarre Nazareth : Nazareth Nederland.o : les Pays-= Bas Nederland.an.o : N=E9erlandais Nepal : N=E9pal Nigeri.a : (la) Nigeria = Nigr.a Mar.o [mar.] : (la) Mer Noire Nikaragu.a : (le) Nicaragua Normand.o = : Normand Normandi.a : (la) Normandie Norvegi.a : (la) Norv=E8ge Norvegi.an= .o : Norv=E9gien Nov.a Guine.a : (la) Nouvelle-Guin=E9e Nov.a Kaledoni.a : = (la) Nouvelle-Cal=E9donie Nov.a Skoti.a : Nouvelle-=C9cosse Nov-Land.o : Te= rre-Neuve Nov-Sud-Wals : (la) Nouvelle-Galles du Sud Nov-Zeland.o : Nouvell= e-Z=E9lande Nubi.a : Nubie Oceani.a : (l')Oc=E9anie Oman : Oman Or.a Riv.o = : (la) C=F4te de l'Or Orkad.i : les [=EEles] Orcades Pacifik.a [mar.] : pac= ifique [de l'oc=E9an] Pacifik.o [mar.] : Le Pacifique [Oc=E9an] Paflagoni.a= : (la) Paphlagonie Palateni.o : (le) Palatinat Palestin.a : (la) Palestine= Pamfili.a : (la) Pamphilie Panam.a : (le) Panama Panoni.a : (la) Pannonie = Paraguay : (le) Paraguay Paris : Paris Part.o : Parthe [peuple ancien] Part= i.a : (la) Parthie, Parthy=E8ne Patagoni.a : (la) Patagonie Pers.o : Perse = [race] Persi.a : (la) Perse Peru : (le) P=E9rou Piemont : (le) Pi=E9mont Pi= kardi.a : (la) Picardie Pirene.i [mont.] : (les) Pyr=E9n=E9es Podoli.a : (l= a) Podolie Polinezi.a : (la) Polyn=E9sie Polon.o : Polonais Poloni.a : (la)= Pologne Pomerani.a : (la) Pom=E9ranie Porto-Rik.o : (=EEle de) Porto-Rico = Portugal : (le) Portugal Portugal.an.o : Portugais Posni.a : (la) Posnanie,= Poznanie Principe : l'=EEle du Prince Provenc.o : (la) Provence Prusi.a : = (la) Prusse Quinsland.o : (le) Queensland Red.a Mar.o [mar.] : (la) Mer Rou= ge Reunion : [l'=EEle de] R=E9union Rhen.o [fl.] : (le) Rhin Rodezi.a : (la= ) Rhod=E9sia Rok.oz.a Mont.i [mont.] : (les) Montagnes Rocheuses Rom.a : Ro= me Rom.an.o : romain Romanch.a : Romanche Ruand.a : Ruanda, Rwanda Rumani.a= : (la) Roumanie Rumeli.a : (la) Roum=E9lie Rus.o : Russe Rusi.a : (la) Rus= sie Sahar.a : (le) Sahara Samo.a : [les =EEles] Samoa San-Marino : Saint-Ma= rin Sanskrit.o : sanscrit Sant-Helen.a : Sainte-H=E9l=E8ne Sardini.a : (la)= Sardaigne Sarmat.o : Sarmate Sarmati.a : (la) Sarmatie Savoy.a : (la) Savo= ie Savoy.an.o : Savoyard Saxon.o : Saxon Saxoni.a : (la) Saxe Sem.id.o : S= =E9mite Serbi.a : (la) Serbie Siam : (le) Siam Siberi.a : (la) Sib=E9rie Si= cili.a : (la) Sicile Sierra Leone : Sierra-Leone Silezi.a : (la) Sil=E9sie = Siri.a : (la) Syrie Skandinavi.a : (la) Scandinavie Skit.o : Scythe Skiti.a= : (la) Scythie Skot.o : =C9cossais Skoti.a : (l')=C9cosse Slav.o : Slave S= lavoni.a : (la) Slavonie Slovaki.a : Slovaquie Sloveni.a : Slov=E9nie Somal= .o : Somali Somal.i-land.o : (le) Somaliland Somali.a : Somalie Soviet-Unio= n.o : l'Union sovi=E9tique Sporad.i : [les =EEles] Sporades Stiri.a : (la) = Styrie Suabi.a : (la) Souabe Sudafrik.a : Afrique du Sud Sudan : (le) Souda= n Sued.a : su=E9dois Sued.o : Su=E9dois Suedi.a : (la) Su=E8de Suis.a : sui= sse Suis.o : Suisse Suisi.a : (la) Suisse Sumatr.a : [l'=EEle de] Sumatra S= urinam : Surinam Tanzani.a : Tanzanie Tasmani.a : (la) Tasmanie Tatar.o : T= atar, Tartare Tatari.a : (la) Tartarie Tesali.a : (la) Thessalie Tibet : (l= e) Tibet, Thibet Tigre : (le) Tigre Tigre.an.a : Tigr=E9enne [langue] Tirol= : (le) Tyrol Togo : (le) Togo Tonkin : (le) Tonkin Toskan.o : Toscan Toska= ni.a : (la) Toscane Trak.o : (un) Thrace Traki.a : (la) Thrace Transilvan.o= : Transylvain, Transylvanien Transilvani.a : (la) Transylvanie Transval : = (le) Transvaal Trinidad : (l'=EEle) Trinit=E9 Tripolit.o : (la) Tripolitain= e Tunis : Tunis Tunizi.a : (la) Tunisie Turingi.a : (la) Thuringe Turk.o : = Turc, Turque Turkestan : (le) Turkestan Turki.a : (la) Turquie Turkoman.o := Turcoman, Turkm=E8ne Ugand.a : Ouganda Ural.o [fl.] : Oural [fleuve] Ural.= i [mont.] : Oural [massif] Uruguay : (l') Uruguay Us.a : (les) =C9tats-Unis= d'Am=E9rique Us.an.o : citoyen des =C9tats-Unis Valaki.a : Valachie Venezu= el.a : (le) V=E9n=E9zuela Vestfali.a : (la) Westphalie Viktori.a : [l'=C9ta= t de] Victoria Virgini.a : (la) Virginie Voges.i [mont.] : (les) Vosges Vol= ini.a : (la) Volynie, Volhynie Wals : [le pays de] Galles Wurtemberg : (le)= Wurtemberg [donner ici au W le son du V] Yemen : Y=E9men Yugoslavi.a : You= goslavie Zaire : Za=EFre Zambezi [fl.] : Zamb=E8ze Zambi.a : Zambie Zanziba= r : (le) Zanzibar Zimbabwe : Zimbabwe Zulu.o : Zoulou Zulu-land.o : Zouloul= and From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1103 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74594 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2004 21:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2004 21:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2004 21:29:22 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id i05LTLuD007048 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:29:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 16:21:26 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401051623_MC3-1-648F-4EC4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.133 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: nomi geografiala Ido-Angla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo Ido-Angla di nomi geografiala e di populani (e poka lingui) Robe= rt C. _______________ Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) = oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro Ido : Angla Abis= ini.a : Abyssinia Abisini.an.o : Abyssinian Acor.i : Azores Afgan.o : Afgha= n Afganistan : Afghanistan Afrik.a : Africa Afrik.an.o : African Akadi.a : = Acadia Akadi.an.o : Acadian Akay.a : Achaea, Achaia Akay.an.o : Achaean, Ac= haian Albani.a : Albania Albani.an.o : Albanian Aleut.i : Aleutian islands = Algarv.o : Algarve Aljer : Algiers [town] Aljer.an.o : native of Algiers Al= jeri.a : Algeria Aljeri.an.o : Algerian Alp.i [mont.] : Alps Alzaci.a : Als= ace Alzaci.an.o : Alsatian Amerik.a : America Amerik.an.o : American [nativ= e of America] Amhar.a : Amhara [region of Abyssinia] Amhar.an.a : Amharic A= mhar.an.o : Amhara [native] Anam : Annam, Anam Anam.an.o : Annamese [native= of Annam] Anatoli.a : Anatolia And.i [mont.] : Andes Andaluzi.a : Andalusi= a Andaluzi.an.o : Andalusian Andor.a : Andorra Angl.a : English Angl.o : En= glish person, Englishman Angli.a : England Angol.a : Angola Anhalt : Anhalt= [German duchy] Antil.i : West Indies, Antilles Apenin.i [mont.] : Apennine= s Apuli.a : Apulia Aquitan.o : native of Aquitaine Aquitani.a : Aquitaine A= rab.a : Arab [adj.], Arabic, Arabian Arab.o : Arab [n.] Arabi.a : Arabia Ar= agon : Aragon Arame.a : Aram Arame.an.a : Aramaic; Aramaean, Aramean Arame.= an.o : Aramaean, Aramean Argolid.o : Argolis Argovi.a : Aargau Arjentini.a = : Argentina Arkadi.a : Arcadia Arkadi.an.o : Arcadian [native of Arcadia] A= rmeni.a : Armenia Arverni.a : Auvergne Aryan.a : Aryan [adj.: race, languag= e], ~Indo-European Aryan.o : Aryan [person] Asiri.a : Assyria Asiri.an.o : = Assyrian Asturi.a : Asturias Asturi.an.o : Asturian Atlantik.a [mar.] : Atl= antic [adj.] Atlantik.o [mar.] : Atlantic (ocean) Aulid.o : Aulis Australi.= a : Australia Australi.an.o : Australian Austri.a : Austria Austri.an.o : A= ustrian Avan-Azi.a : Asia Minor Azi.a : Asia Azi.an.o : Asian, Asiatic Bade= ni.a : Baden [duchy] Badeni.an.o : native of Baden Baham.a : (the) Bahamas = Baktri.a : Bactria Baktri.an.o : Bactrian Balear.i : Balearics, Balearic is= lands Barbados : Barbados Bavari.a : Bavaria Bavari.an.o : Bavarian Beduin.= o : Bedouin Belg.o : (a) Belgian Belgi.a : Belgium Beludj.o : Baluch [perso= n] Beludjistan : Baluchistan Bengal : Bengal Bengal.an.o : Bengali, Bengale= se Beoti.a : Boeotia Beoti.an.o : Boeotian Berber.o : Berber Berberi.a : Ba= rbary Bermud.i : (the) Bermudas [islands] Besarabi.a : Bessarabia Betlehem = : Bethlemen Bitini.a : Bithynia Blank.a-Mont.o [mont.] : Mont Blanc Bohemi.= a : Bohemia Bohemi.an.o : Bohemian [native of Bohemia] Bolivi.a : Bolivia B= olivi.an.o : Bolivian Borne.o : Borneo Bosni.a : Bosnia Bosni.an.o : Bosnia= n Brabant : Brabant Brabant.an.o : native of Brabant Brazili.a : Brazil Bra= zili.an.o : Brazilian Breton.o : Breton [person] Bretoni.a : Brittany Brita= n.o : Briton [ancient] Britani.a : Britain, Great Britain Britani.an.a : Br= itish Britani.an.o : Briton [native of Britain] Brunsvig : Brunswick [duchy= ] Bukhari.a : Bukhara, Bokhara Bulgari.a : Bulgaria Bulgari.an.o : Bulgaria= n Bur.o : Boer Burgund.o : Burgundian [ancient] Burgundi.a : Burgundy Burgu= ndi.an.o : Burgundian Burm.a : Burma Burm.an.o : Burmese [n.], Burman Bushm= an.o : Bushman Ceylon : Ceylon Ceylon.an.o : Ceylonese [n.], Cingalese Cham= pani.a : Champagne [region] Chek.o : Czech [n.] Chili : Chile Chili.an.o : = Chilean Chini.a : China Chini.an.a : Chinese [adj.] Chini.an.o : Chinese [p= erson] Chipr.o : Cyprus Chipr.an.o : Cypriot [person], Cyprian Cilici.a : C= ilicia Cirkasi.a : Circassia Cirkasi.an.o : Circassian [person] Daci.a : Da= cia Dalmati.a : Dalmatia Dalmati.an.o : Dalmatian [person] Dan.o : Dane Dan= i.a : Denmark Danubi.o [fl.] : (the) Danube Dardanel.i [mar.] : (the) Darda= nelles, Hellespont Doming.a Republik.o : Dominican Republic Doming.an.o : D= ominican [of the Dominican Republic] Dominik.a : Dominica Dori.an.a : Doric= , Dorian [inhabitant, dialect] Egipti.a : Egypt Egipti.an.o : Egyptian [per= son] Eoli.a : Aeolis, Aoelia Eoli.an.a : Aeolian, Eolian [of Aeolis, Aeolia= ] Epir.o : Epirus Epir.an.o : Epirot [n.] Equador : Ecuador Eritre.a : Erit= rea Eskimo.o : Eskimo Estoni.a : Estonia Estoni.an.o : Estonian [n.] Etiopi= .a : Ethiopia Etiopi.an.o : Ethiopian [n.] Etoli.a : Aetolia Etoli.an.o : A= etolian [n.] Etruri.a : Etruria Etruri.an.o : Etruscan, Etrurian [n.] Europ= .a : Europe Europ.an.a : European [adj.] Europ.an.o : European [n.] Fair.o-= Ter.o : Tierra del Fuego Falkland : Falkland Islands Fenici.a : Phoenicia F= enici.an.o : Phoenician [n.] Fernandop.o : Fernando Po Fidji : Fiji Filipin= .i : Philippines Filipin.an.o : Filipino [person] Finland.o : Finland Finla= nd.an.o : Finn Flandr.a : Flemish Flandr.o : Fleming Flandri.a : Flanders F= landri.an.o : Fleming Focid.o : Phocis Formoz.a : Formosa Franc.a : French = Franc.o : Frenchman Franci.a : France Frankoni.a : Franconia Frankoni.an.o = : native of Franconia Frigi.a : Phrygia Frigi.an.o : Phrygian [person] Friz= i.a : Friesland Frizi.an.o : Frisian, Friesian [person] Galati.a : Galatia = [Asia Minor] Galici.a : Galicia [on the north side of the Carpathians] Gali= ci.an.o : Galician [native of Carpathian Galicia] Galile.a : Galilee Galile= .an.o : Galilean [person] Galisi.a : Galicia [in Spain] Galisi.an.o : Galic= ian [Spanish person] Gall.o : Gaul [person] Galli.a : Gaul [region] Gaskon.= o : Gascon Gaskoni.a : Gascony Gaskoni.an.o : inhabitant of Gascony Genov.a= : Genoa German.o : German [person] Germani.a : Germany Got.a : Gothic [of = the Goths] Got.o : Goth Goti.a : Gotland, Gothland, Gottland Grek.a : Greek= [adj.] Grek.o : Greek [person] Greki.a : Greece Grenland.o : Greenland Gre= nland.an.o : Greenlander Gruzi.a : Georgia [by the Black Sea] Guadelup.a : = Guadeloupe Guatemal.a : Guatemala Guayan.a : Guiana, The Guianas Guine.a : = Guinea Haiti : Haiti Havayi : Hawaii Hebre.a : Hebrew [adj.] Hebre.o : Hebr= ew [person] Hebrid.i : Hebrides Helvet.o : Helvetian [person] Helveti.a : H= elvetia Herzegovin.a : Herzegovina, Hercegovina Hesi.a : Hesse Hesi.an.o : = Hessian [native of Hesse] Hispan.o : Spaniard Hispani.a : Spain Holand.o : = Holland Holand.an.o : Hollander Honduras : Honduras Hungari.a : Hungary Hun= gari.an.o : Hungarian [person] Ierusalem : Jerusalem Indi.a : India Indi.an= .o : Indian [native of India] Ioni.a : Ionia Ioni.an.a : Ionian [adj.: nati= ve, dialect] Ioni.an.o : Ionian [native] Irland.o : Ireland Irland.an.o : I= rish person, Irishman Island.o : Iceland Island.an.o : Icelander Istri.a : = Istria Istri.an.o : Istrian Itali.a : Italy Itali.an.o : Italian [n.] Ivor.= a Riv.o : Ivory Coast Izrael.id.o : Israelite Jamaik.a : Jamaica Jamaik.an.= o : Jamaican [n.] Japoni.a : Japan Japoni.an.a : Japanese [adj.] Japoni.an.= o : Japanese [person] Jav.a : Java Jav.an.o : Javanese [person] Jud.o : Jew= Jude.a : Judaea, Judea Jude.an.o : Judaean, Judean [person] Kab.o di Bon E= sper.o : Cape of Good Hope Kab.land.o : Cape Colony Kabverd.o : Cape Verde = Kafr.o : Kaffir Kalabri.a : Calabria Kalabri.an.o : Calabrian [person] Kald= e.a : Chaldaea, Chaldea Kalde.an.o : Chaldaean, Chaldean [person] Kaliforni= .a : California Kaliforni.an.o : Californian [n.] Kambodj.a : Cambodia Kamb= odj.an.o : Cambodian [person] Kamchatk.a : Kamchatka Kamerun : Cameroon Kam= pani.a : Campania Kanaan : Canaan Kanaan.an.a : Canaanite [adj.] Kanaan.an.= o : Canaanite [person] Kanad.a : Canada Kanad.an.o : Canadian [n.] Kanal.o = [mar.] : (English) Channel Kanari.i : Canary Islands, Canaries Kapadoci.a := Cappadocia Karinti.a : Carinthia Karpat.i [mont.] : Carpathians, Carpathia= n mountains Kashmir : Kashmir Kastili.a : Castile Kastili.an.o : Castilian = [person] Kataluni.a : Catalonia Kataluni.an.o : Catalan [person] Kaukaz.o [= mont.] : Caucasus Mountains, (the) Caucasus Kaukazi.a : Caucasia, (the) Cau= casus Kaukazi.an.o : Caucasian [native of Caucasia] Khiv.a : Khiva Kolchid.= o : Colchis Kolumbi.a : Colombia Kolumbi.an.o : Colombian [n.] Kongo.land.a= n.o : Congolese [n.] Konstantinopl.o : Constantinople Kordilier.i [mont.] := (the) Cordilleras Kore.a : Korea Kore.an.o : Korean [n.] Kornwal : Cornwal= l Korsik.a : Corsica Korsik.an.o : Corsican [n.] Koshinchini.a : Cochin-Chi= na Koshinchini.an.o : Cochin-Chinese [person] Kostarik.a : Costa Rica Kroat= i.a : Croatia Kroati.an.o : Croatian [n.] Kub.a : Cuba Kub.an.o : Cuban [n.= ] Kurland.o : Courland, Kurland Lag.o di Quar Kanton.i [mar.] : Lake Lucern= e Lagos : Lagos Lapon.o : Lapp, Laplander Laponi.a : Lapland Latv.a : Latvi= an [adj.] Latv.o : Latvian [person] Latvi.a : Latvia Liban.o : Lebanon Libe= ri.a : Liberia Libi.a : Libya Libi.an.o : Libyan [n.] Lici.a : Lycia Lici.a= n.o : Lycian [person] Lidi.a : Lydia Lidi.an.o : Lydian [person] Liguri.a := Liguria Liguri.an.o : Ligurian [n.] Likaoni.a : Lycaonia Lituani.a : Lithu= ania Lituani.an.o : Lithuanian [person] Livoni.a : Livonia Livoni.an.o : Li= vonian [n.] Lombardi.a : Lombardy Lombardi.an.o : Lombard [native of Lombar= dy] London : London London.an.o : Londoner Luxemburg : Luxembourg [town] Lu= xemburgi.a : Luxembourg [country] Luxemburgi.an.o : native of Luxembourg Ma= cedoni.a : Macedonia Macedoni.an.o : Macedonian [person] Madagaskar : Madag= ascar Madeir.a : Madeira Madyar.o : Magyar Malay.o : Malay Malt.a : Malta M= alt.an.o : Maltese [person] Mandjur.o : Manchu Mandjuri.a : Manchuria Mandj= uri.an.o : Manchurian [n.] Marian.i : Mariana (islands) Marok.o : Morocco M= arok.an.o : Moroccan [n.] Marquesas : Marquesas Islands Martinik.a : Martin= ique Mauric.o : Mauritius Mauritani.a : Mauritania Mayork.a : Majorca Med.o= : Mede Medi.a : Media Mediterane.a [mar.] : Mediterranean [adj.] Mediteran= e.o [mar.] : Mediterranean (sea) Mexik.o : Mexico City Mexiki.a : Mexico [c= ountry] Mexiki.an.o : Mexican [n.] Mezopotami.a : Mesopotamia Mezopotami.an= .o : Mesopotamian [n.] Minork.a : Minorca Mizi.a : Mysia Moab.id.o : Moabit= e [descendant of Moab] Moabi.a : Moab [land] Moabi.an.o : Moabite [native o= f the land of Moab] Moldavi.a : Moldavia Moldavi.an.o : Moldavian [n.] Mona= k.o : Monaco Monak.an.o : Monegasque, Monacan [n.] Mongol.o : Mongol, Mongo= lian Mongoli.a : Mongolia Montenegr.o : Montenegro Montenegr.an.o : Montene= grin [n.] Moravi.a : Moravia Moravi.an.o : Moravian [native of Moravia] Mor= t.int.a Mar.o [mar.] : Dead Sea Mozambik : Mozambique Nabate.i : Nabataeans= , Nabatean [people] Natal : Natal Navar.a : Navarre Nazareth : Nazareth Ned= erland.o : Netherlands Nederland.an.o : Dutchman, native of the Netherlands= Nigeri.a : Nigeria Nigr.a Mar.o [mar.] : Black Sea, Euxine Sea Nikaragu.a = : Nicaragua Normand.o : Norman Normandi.a : Normandy Norvegi.a : Norway Nor= vegi.an.o : Norwegian [person] Nov.a Guine.a : New Guinea Nov.a Kaledoni.a = : New Caledonia Nov.a Skoti.a : Nova Scotia Nov-Land.o : Newfoundland Nov-L= and.an.o : Newfoundlander Nov-Sud-Wals : New South Wales Nov-Zeland.o : New= Zealand Nubi.a : Nubia Nubi.an.o : Nubian [n.] Oceani.a : Oceania Or.a Riv= .o : Gold Coast Orkad.i : Orkney (Islands) Pacifik.a [mar.] : Pacific [adj.= ] Pacifik.o [mar.] : Pacific (ocean) Paflagoni.a : Paphlagonia Palateni.o := the Palatinate Palestin.a : Palestine Pamfili.a : Pamphylia Panam.a : Pana= ma Panoni.a : Pannonia Paraguay : Paraguay Paris : Paris Paris.an.o : Paris= ian [n.] Part.o : Parthian Parti.a : Parthia Patagoni.a : Patagonia Patagon= i.an.o : Patagonian [n.] Pers.o : Persian [ancient] Persi.a : Persia Persi.= an.o : Persian [person] Peru : Peru Peru.an.o : Peruvian [n.] Piemont : Pie= dmont Pikardi.a : Picardy Pirene.i [mont.] : Pyrenees Podoli.a : Podolia Po= doli.an.o : Podolian [n.] Polinezi.a : Polynesia Polinezi.an.o : Polynesian= [n.] Polon.o : Pole Poloni.a : Poland Pomerani.a : Pomerania Pomerani.an.o= : Pomeranian [native of Pomerania] Porto-Rik.o : Puerto Rico Portugal : Po= rtugal Portugal.an.o : Portuguese [person] Posni.a : Posen [province] Posni= .an.o : native of Posen [province] Principe : Principe [island] Provenc.o := Provence Provenc.an.o : Proven=E7al [person] Prusi.a : Prussia Prusi.an.o = : Prussian [native of Prussia] Quinsland.o : Queensland Quinsland.an.o : Qu= eenslander Red.a Mar.o [mar.] : Red Sea Reunion : R=E9union [island] Rhen.o= [fl.] : Rhine Rodezi.a : Rhodesia Rodezi.an.o : Rhodesian [n.] Rok.oz.a Mo= nt.i [mont.] : Rocky Mountains Rom.a : Rome Rom.an.o : Roman Romanch.a : Ro= mansch, Romansh Rumani.a : Rumania, Roumania, Romania Rumani.an.o : Rumania= n, Roumanian, Romanian [person] Rumeli.a : Rumelia, Roumelia Rumeli.an.o : = Rumelian, Roumelian [n.] Rus.o : Russian [n.] Rusi.a : Russia Sahar.a : Sah= ara Samo.a : Samoa San-Marino : San Marino Sanskrit.o : Sanskrit Sant-Helen= .a : Saint Helena, St Helena [island] Sardini.a : Sardinia Sardini.an.o : S= ardinian [person] Sarmat.o : Sarmatian Sarmati.a : Sarmatia Savoy.a : Savoy= Savoy.an.o : Savoyard [native of Savoy] Saxon.o : Saxon Saxoni.a : Saxony = Sem.id.o : Semite Senegal.an.o : Senegalese [n.] Serbi.a : Serbia Serbi.an.= o : Serbian [person] Siam : Siam Siam.an.o : Siamese [native of Siam] Siber= i.a : Siberia Siberi.an.o : Siberian [n.] Sicili.a : Sicily Sicili.an.o : S= icilian [person] Sierra Leone : Sierra Leone Silezi.a : Silesia Silezi.an.o= : Silesian [n.] Siri.a : Syria Siri.an.o : Syrian [native of Syria] Skandi= navi.a : Scandinavia Skandinavi.an.o : Scandinavian [n.] Skit.o : Scythian = [n.] Skiti.a : Scythia Skot.o : Scot, Scotsman Skoti.a : Scotland Slav.o : = Slav [n.] Slavoni.a : Slavonia Somal.o : Somali [person] Somal.i-land.o : S= omaliland Sporad.i : Sporades [islands] Stiri.a : Styria Stiri.an.o : Styri= an [n.] Suabi.a : Swabia Suabi.an.o : Swabian [n.] Sudan : Sudan Sudan.an.o= : Sudanese [n.] Sued.a : Swedish Sued.o : Swede Suedi.a : Sweden Suis.a : = Swiss [adj.] Suis.o : Swiss [n.] Suisi.a : Switzerland Sumatr.a : Sumatra S= urinam : Surinam Tasmani.a : Tasmania Tasmani.an.o : Tasmanian [n.] Tatar.o= : Tatar [person], "Tartar" Tatari.a : Tatary, "Tartary" Tesali.a : Thessal= y Tesali.an.o : Thessalian [n.] Tibet : Tibet Tibet.an.o : Tibetan [person]= Tigre : Tigre, Tigr=E9 [region] Tigre.an.a : Tigre [adj.], Tigrean Tirol := Tyrol, Tirol Tirol.an.o : Tyrolese, Tyrolean [n.] Togo : Togo Tonkin : Ton= kin, Tongking Tonkin.an.o : native of Tonkin Toskan.o : Tuscan Toskani.a : = Tuscany Trak.o : Thracian Traki.a : Thrace Transilvan.o : Transylvanian [n.= ] Transilvani.a : Transylvania Transval : Transvaal Transval.an.o : Transva= aler Trinidad : Trinidad Tripolit.o : Tripolitania Tripolit.an.o : Tripolit= anian [n.] Tunis : Tunis [town] Tunizi.a : Tunisia Tunizi.an.o : Tunisian [= n.] Turingi.a : Thuringia Turingi.an.o : Thuringian [n.] Turk.o : Turk Turk= estan : Turkestan, Turkistan Turkestan.an.o : Turkestani, Turkistani [n.] T= urki.a : Turkey Turkoman.o : Turkoman, Turkman Ural.o [fl.] : Ural [river] = Ural.i [mont.] : Ural mountains, Urals Uruguay : Uruguay Us.a : United Stat= es, USA Us.an.o : American [of the USA] Valaki.a : Walachia, Wallachia Vala= ki.an.o : Walachian, Wallachian [n.] Venezuel.a : Venezuela Venezuel.an.o := Venezuelan [n.] Vestfali.a : Westphalia Vestfali.an.o : Westphalian [n.] V= iktori.a : Victoria [Australia] Virgini.a : Virginia [state] Voges.i [mont.= ] : Vosges (mountains) Volini.a : Volhynia Wals : Wales Wurtemberg : W=FCrt= temberg Wurtemberg.an.o : W=FCrttemberger Zanzibar : Zanzibar Zulu.o : Zulu= [n.] Zulu-land.o : Zululand From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1104 Return-Path: X-Sender: hlnodovic@vtr.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93795 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2004 01:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2004 01:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.vtr.net) (200.83.1.24) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2004 01:08:09 -0000 Received: from hudson.vtr.net (200.83.1.22) by mx02.vtr.net (7.0.012) id 3FCBA8A9009F5966 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:08:07 -0300 Received: from yhwh (200.83.93.6) by hudson.vtr.net (7.0.008) id 3FE948900026FE7E for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:08:07 -0300 Message-ID: <003501c3d3f1$87378e50$6600a8c0@yhwh> To: References: <200401051622_MC3-1-6493-E892@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:08:00 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.83.1.24 From: "Saruman El Blanco" Subject: Re: [linguo] Nomi geografiala Ido-Franca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161102152 X-Yahoo-Profile: ilustrado Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Salutesez omni! Me havas dubito, me komprenas ke la idolingua preferez la = internacional nomi del landi, ma pro quo konservas la old nomi, ka ne acep= tas la politik chanjin? Burma es nun Myanmar Ceylon es nun Sri Lanka Molda= via es nun Moldova Konstantinopla es nun Istanbul (co ne aparis en la list= o) Siam es nun Tailando Me ne komprenas pro quo: Falkland e ne Falklando H= avayi e ne Hawaii Ierusalem e ne Yerusalem Ionia e ne Yonia Kolumbia e n= e Kolombia (la internacional nomo es Colombia o Kolombia, Britan-Kolumbia = es Kanadan, la urbo di Kolumbia es Usan) Mandjuria e ne Mantjuria Marquesa= s e ne Markezi (quale es Acori e non Acores od Asores (ido preferas sono, = ne skriptura, me pensas)) Brunsvig e ne Bronzwik Wals e non Weilz (sua nom= o es dessam en omna lingui, lore me preferus la Angla pronunco) Rheno e ne = Rain (Rh ne es ido, me preferus la Germana pronunco) Virginia e neVirdjinia= Wurtemberg e ne Vurtenberg (ido preferas pronunco, ne skriptur) Kordie, = Hlnodovic ----- Original Message ----- From: R.B. Carnaghan To: Li= nguolisto Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: [linguo] Nom= i geografiala Ido-Franca Yen listo Ido-Franca di nomi geografiala e di = populani (e poka lingui) Robert C. _______________ Abreviuri: fl.= =3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo mont.= =3D(pri) monto o montaro Ido : Franca Abisini.a : Abyssinie Acor.i = : les A=E7ores Afgan.o : Afghan Afganistan : l'Afghanistan Afrik.a : = l'Afrique Akadi.a : l'Acadie Akay.a : l'Acha=EFe Alask.a : Alaska A= lbani.a : l'Albanie Aleut.i : =EEles Al=E9outiennes Algarv.o : Algarve = Aljer : Alger Aljeri.a : l'Alg=E9rie Alp.i [mont.] : les Alpes Alza= ci.a : l'Alsace Amerik.a : l'Am=E9rique Amhar.a : Amhara [pays] Amhar= .an.a : amharique Anam : l'Annam Anatoli.a : l'Anatolie And.i [mont.]= : les Andes Andaluzi.a : l'Andalousie Andor.a : le Val d'Andorre Ang= l.a : anglais Angl.o : Anglais Angli.a : l'Angleterre Angol.a : Angol= a Anhalt : l'Anhalt [duch=E9] Antil.i : les Antilles Apenin.i [mont.]= : les Apennins Apuli.a : l'Apulie Aquitan.o : Aquitain Aquitani.a : = l'Aquitanie Arab.a : arabe Arab.o : Arabe Arabi.a : l'Arabie Aragon= : l'Aragon Arame.a : Aram [pays d'] Arame.an.a : aram=E9en Argolid.o= : l'Argolide Argovi.a : Argovie [canton] Arjentini.a : l'Argentine A= rkadi.a : l'Arcadie Armeni.a : l'Arm=E9nie Arverni.a : l'Auvergne Ary= an.a : aryen [race, langue] Aryan.o : Aryen Asiri.a : l'Assyrie Astur= i.a : les Asturies Atlantik.a [mar.] : atlantique Atlantik.o [mar.] : l= 'Atlantique Aulid.o : l'Aulide Australazi.a : Australasie Australi.a = : l'Australia Austri.a : l'Autriche Avan-Azi.a : l'Asie-Mineure Azerb= aijan : Azerba=EFdjan Azi.a : l'Asie Badeni.a : [le Gr.-D. de] Bade B= aham.a : (les) Bahamas Baktri.a : la Bactriane Balear.i : les [=EEles] = Bal=E9ares Bangladesh : Bangladesh Barbados : la Barbade Bavari.a : l= a Bavi=E8re Beduin.o : B=E9douin [en g=E9n=E9ral] Belg.o : Belge Belg= i.a : la Belgique Belize : B=E9lize Beludj.o : B=E9loutche Beludjista= n : le B=E9loutchistan Bengal : le Bengale Benin : B=E9nin Beoti.a : = la B=E9otie Berber.o : Berb=E8re Berberi.a : Berb=E9rie Bermud.i : le= s Bermudes Besarabi.a : la Bessarabie Betlehem : Bethl=E9hem Bitini.a= : la Bithynie Blank.a-Mont.o [mont.] : le Mont-Blanc Bohemi.a : la Boh= =EAme Bolivi.a : la Bolivie Borne.o : Born=E9o [=EEle] Bosni.a : la B= osnie Botswan.a : Botswana Brabant : le Brabant Brazili.a : le Br=E9s= il Breton.o : Breton Bretoni.a : la Bretagne Britan.o : Breton (de Gr= ande-Bretagne, membre du peuple ancien celtique) Britani.a : la Grande-Br= etagne Britani.an.a : britannique Brunei : Brunei Brunsvig : le Bruns= wick [duch=E9] Bukhari.a : la Boukharie Bulgari.a : la Bulgarie Bur.o= : Boer Burgund.o : Burgonde Burgundi.a : la Bourgogne Burm.a : la Bi= rmanie Burundi : Burundi Bushman.o : Boshiman, Bosjeman Ceylon : Ceyl= an [=EEle] Champani.a : la Champagne Chek.o : Tch=E8que Chekoslovaki.= a : la Tch=E9coslovaquie Chili : le Chili Chini.a : (la) Chine Chini.= an.a : chinois [adj.] Chini.an.o : Chinois [personne] Chipr.o : Chypre = [=EEle] Cilici.a : la Cilicie Cirkasi.a : la Circasie Daci.a : la Dac= ie Dalmati.a : la Dalmatie Dan.o : Danois Dani.a : le Danemark Danu= bi.o [fl.] : le Danube Dardanel.i [mar.] : les Dardanelles Doming.a Rep= ublik.o : la R=E9publique Dominicaine Dominik.a : Dominique [=EEle] Dor= i.an.a : dorien Egad.i : les [=EEles] Egades Egipti.a : l'Egypte Eoli= .a : =C9olie [nom propre: g=E9ogr.] Eoli.an.a : d'=C9olie Epir.o : l'Ep= ire Equador : (la r=E9publique de) l'=C9quateur Eritre.a : l'=C9rythr= =E9e Eskimo.o : Esquimau [race] Estoni.a : l'Esthonie Etiopi.a : l'Et= hiopie Etoli.a : l'Etolie Etruri.a : l'Etrurie Europ.a : l'Europe E= urop.an.a : europ=E9en Europ.an.o : Europ=E9en Fair.o-Ter.o : (la) Terr= e-de-Feu Falkland : les (=EEles) Falkland Fenici.a : (la) Ph=E9nicie = Fernandop.o : (l'=EEle de) Fernando Po Fidji : [les =EEles] Fidji Filip= in.i : les [=EEles] Philippines Finland.o : (la) Finlande Flandr.a : fl= amand Flandr.o : Flamand Flandri.a : (la) Flandre Focid.o : (la) Phoc= ide Formoz.a : [l'=EEle] Formose Franc.a : fran=E7ais Franc.o : Fran= =E7ais Franci.a : (la) France Frankoni.a : (la) Franconie Frigi.a : (= la) Phrygie Frizi.a : (la) Frise Gabon : Gabon Galati.a : (la) Galati= e Galici.a : (la) Galicie Galile.a : (la) Galil=E9e Galisi.a : (la) G= alice Gall.o : Gaulois Galli.a : (la) Gaule Gaskon.o : Gascon Gasko= ni.a : (la) Gascogne Genov.a : G=EAnes [la ville de] German.o : Alleman= d, Germain Germani.a : Allemagne, (la) Germanie Got.a : des Goths Got= .o : Goth [race] Goti.a : (la) Gothie, G=F6taland Grek.a : grec Grek.= o : Grec Greki.a : (la) Gr=E8ce Grenland.o : (le) Groenland Gruzi.a := (la) Grusie, G=E9orgie Guadelup.a : (la) Guadeloupe Guatemal.a : (le) = Guat=E9mala Guayan.a : (la) Guyane, (les) Guyanes Guine.a : (la) Guin= =E9e Haiti : [l'=EEle de] Ha=EFti Havayi : [les =EEles] Hawa=EF Hebre= .a : h=E9bra=EFque, h=E9breu Hebre.o : H=E9breu Hebrid.i : [les =EEles]= H=E9brides Helvet.o : Helv=E8te, Helv=E9tien Helveti.a : l'Helv=E9tie = Herzegovin.a : l'Herz=E9govine Hesi.a : la Hesse Himalay.a [mont.] : = l'Himalaya Hispan.o : Espagnol Hispani.a : l'Espagne Holand.o : la Ho= llande Honduras : (le) Honduras Hungari.a : la Hongrie Hungari.an.o := Hongrois Iberi.a : la p=E9ninsule Ib=E9rique Ierusalem : J=E9rusalem = Indi.a : l'Inde Indi.an.o : Indien [de l'Inde] Indonezi.a : Indon=E9si= e Ioni.a : l'Ionie Ioni.an.a : ionien Irak : Iraq, Irak Iran : Iran= Irland.o : l'Irlande Island.o : l'Islande Israel : Isra=EBl Istri.= a : l'Istrie Itali.a : l'Italie Itali.an.o : Italien Ivor.a Riv.o : l= a C=F4te-d'Ivoire Izrael.id.o : Isra=E9lite Jamaik.a : la Jama=EFque = Japoni.a : le Japon Japoni.an.a : japonais [adj.] Japoni.an.o : Japonai= s Jav.a : [l'=EEle de] Java Jordan [fl.] : Jourdain Jordani.a : Jorda= nie Jud.o : Juif Jude.a : la Jud=E9e Kab.o di Bon Esper.o : le Cap de= Bonne-Esp=E9rance Kab.land.o : le Cap Kabverd.o : le Cap Vert Kafr.o= : Cafre [race] Kalabri.a : la Calabre Kalde.a : la Chald=E9e Kalifor= ni.a : la Californie Kambodj.a : le Cambodge Kamchatk.a : le Kamtchatka= Kamerun : le Cameroun Kampani.a : la Campanie Kanaan : [le pays de] = Canaan Kanaan.an.a : canan=E9en Kanad.a : le Canada Kanal.o [mar.] : = (la) Manche Kanari.i : [les =EEles] Canaries Kapadoci.a : la Cappadoce = Karinti.a : la Carinthie Karpat.i [mont.] : les [monts] Carpathes Kas= hmir : le Cachemire Kastili.a : la Castille Kataluni.a : la Catalogne = Katar : Qatar, Katar Kaukaz.o [mont.] : le Caucase Kaukazi.a : la Cauc= asie Khiv.a : [le khanat de] Khiva Kolchid.o : la Colchide Kolumbi.a = : la Colombie Konstantinopl.o : Constantinople Kordilier.i [mont.] : le= s Cordilli=E8res Kore.a : la Cor=E9e Kore.an.o : Cor=E9en Kornwal : C= ornwall, les Cornouailles Korsik.a : la Corse Koshinchini.a : la Cochin= chine Kostarik.a : Costa-Rica Kroati.a : la Croatie Kub.a : Cuba Ku= rland.o : Courlande Kuwait : Kowe=EFt Lag.o di Quar Kanton.i [mar.] : L= ac des Quatre Cantons Lagos : (le) Lagos Laos : Laos Lapon.o : Lapon = Laponi.a : la Laponie Latv.a : latvien Latv.o : Lette, Letton, Lettiq= ue Latvi.a : Lettonie Liban.o : (le) Liban Liberi.a : (la) Lib=E9rie = Libi.a : (la) Libye Lici.a : (la) Lycie Lidi.a : (la) Lydie Liguri.= a : (la) Ligurie Likaoni.a : (la) Lycaonie Lituani.a : (la) Lithuanie = Livoni.a : (la) Livonie Lombardi.a : (la) Lombardie London : Londres = Luxemburg : Luxembourg [ville] Luxemburgi.a : (le) Luxembourg Macedoni= .a : (la) Mac=E9doine Madagaskar : Madagascar Madeir.a : (l'=EEle de) M= ad=E8re Madyar.o : Madgyar Malawi : Malawi Malay.o : Malais Mali : = Mali Malt.a : [l'=EEle de] Malte Mandjur.o : Mandchou [race] Mandjuri= .a : Mandchourie Marian.i : [les =EEles] Mariannes Marok.o : [le] Maroc= Marquesas : [les =EEles] Marquises Martinik.a : (la) Martinique Maur= ic.o : [l'=EEle] Maurice Mauritani.a : [la] Mauritanie Mayork.a : [l'= =EEle de] Majorque Med.o : M=E8de [race] Medi.a : [la] M=E9die Medite= rane.a [mar.] : m=E9diterran=E9en Mediterane.o [mar.] : (la mer) M=E9dite= rran=E9e Mexik.o : Mexico [ville] Mexiki.a : [le] Mexique Mexiki.an.o= : Mexicain Mezopotami.a : [la] M=E9sopotamie Minork.a : [l'=EEle de] M= inorque Mizi.a : [la] Mysie Moab.id.o : Moabite Moabi.a : le pays de = Moab Moabi.an.o : Moabite Moldavi.a : [la] Moldavie Monak.o : Monaco = Mongol.o : Mongol Mongoli.a : [la] Mongolie Montenegr.o : [le] Mont= =E9n=E9gro Moravi.a : [la] Moravie Mort.int.a Mar.o [mar.] : [la] Mer M= orte Mozambik : Mozambique Nabate.i : Nabat=E9ens [peuple] Namibi.a := Namibie Natal : (le) Natal Navar.a : (la) Navarre Nazareth : Nazaret= h Nederland.o : les Pays-Bas Nederland.an.o : N=E9erlandais Nepal : N= =E9pal Nigeri.a : (la) Nigeria Nigr.a Mar.o [mar.] : (la) Mer Noire N= ikaragu.a : (le) Nicaragua Normand.o : Normand Normandi.a : (la) Norman= die Norvegi.a : (la) Norv=E8ge Norvegi.an.o : Norv=E9gien Nov.a Guine= .a : (la) Nouvelle-Guin=E9e Nov.a Kaledoni.a : (la) Nouvelle-Cal=E9donie = Nov.a Skoti.a : Nouvelle-=C9cosse Nov-Land.o : Terre-Neuve Nov-Sud-Wa= ls : (la) Nouvelle-Galles du Sud Nov-Zeland.o : Nouvelle-Z=E9lande Nubi= .a : Nubie Oceani.a : (l')Oc=E9anie Oman : Oman Or.a Riv.o : (la) C= =F4te de l'Or Orkad.i : les [=EEles] Orcades Pacifik.a [mar.] : pacifiq= ue [de l'oc=E9an] Pacifik.o [mar.] : Le Pacifique [Oc=E9an] Paflagoni.a= : (la) Paphlagonie Palateni.o : (le) Palatinat Palestin.a : (la) Pales= tine Pamfili.a : (la) Pamphilie Panam.a : (le) Panama Panoni.a : (la)= Pannonie Paraguay : (le) Paraguay Paris : Paris Part.o : Parthe [peu= ple ancien] Parti.a : (la) Parthie, Parthy=E8ne Patagoni.a : (la) Patag= onie Pers.o : Perse [race] Persi.a : (la) Perse Peru : (le) P=E9rou = Piemont : (le) Pi=E9mont Pikardi.a : (la) Picardie Pirene.i [mont.] : = (les) Pyr=E9n=E9es Podoli.a : (la) Podolie Polinezi.a : (la) Polyn=E9si= e Polon.o : Polonais Poloni.a : (la) Pologne Pomerani.a : (la) Pom=E9= ranie Porto-Rik.o : (=EEle de) Porto-Rico Portugal : (le) Portugal Po= rtugal.an.o : Portugais Posni.a : (la) Posnanie, Poznanie Principe : l'= =EEle du Prince Provenc.o : (la) Provence Prusi.a : (la) Prusse Quins= land.o : (le) Queensland Red.a Mar.o [mar.] : (la) Mer Rouge Reunion : = [l'=EEle de] R=E9union Rhen.o [fl.] : (le) Rhin Rodezi.a : (la) Rhod=E9= sia Rok.oz.a Mont.i [mont.] : (les) Montagnes Rocheuses Rom.a : Rome = Rom.an.o : romain Romanch.a : Romanche Ruand.a : Ruanda, Rwanda Ruman= i.a : (la) Roumanie Rumeli.a : (la) Roum=E9lie Rus.o : Russe Rusi.a := (la) Russie Sahar.a : (le) Sahara Samo.a : [les =EEles] Samoa San-Ma= rino : Saint-Marin Sanskrit.o : sanscrit Sant-Helen.a : Sainte-H=E9l=E8= ne Sardini.a : (la) Sardaigne Sarmat.o : Sarmate Sarmati.a : (la) Sar= matie Savoy.a : (la) Savoie Savoy.an.o : Savoyard Saxon.o : Saxon S= axoni.a : (la) Saxe Sem.id.o : S=E9mite Serbi.a : (la) Serbie Siam : = (le) Siam Siberi.a : (la) Sib=E9rie Sicili.a : (la) Sicile Sierra Leo= ne : Sierra-Leone Silezi.a : (la) Sil=E9sie Siri.a : (la) Syrie Skand= inavi.a : (la) Scandinavie Skit.o : Scythe Skiti.a : (la) Scythie Sko= t.o : =C9cossais Skoti.a : (l')=C9cosse Slav.o : Slave Slavoni.a : (l= a) Slavonie Slovaki.a : Slovaquie Sloveni.a : Slov=E9nie Somal.o : So= mali Somal.i-land.o : (le) Somaliland Somali.a : Somalie Soviet-Union= .o : l'Union sovi=E9tique Sporad.i : [les =EEles] Sporades Stiri.a : (l= a) Styrie Suabi.a : (la) Souabe Sudafrik.a : Afrique du Sud Sudan : (= le) Soudan Sued.a : su=E9dois Sued.o : Su=E9dois Suedi.a : (la) Su=E8= de Suis.a : suisse Suis.o : Suisse Suisi.a : (la) Suisse Sumatr.a := [l'=EEle de] Sumatra Surinam : Surinam Tanzani.a : Tanzanie Tasmani.= a : (la) Tasmanie Tatar.o : Tatar, Tartare Tatari.a : (la) Tartarie T= esali.a : (la) Thessalie Tibet : (le) Tibet, Thibet Tigre : (le) Tigre = Tigre.an.a : Tigr=E9enne [langue] Tirol : (le) Tyrol Togo : (le) Togo= Tonkin : (le) Tonkin Toskan.o : Toscan Toskani.a : (la) Toscane Tr= ak.o : (un) Thrace Traki.a : (la) Thrace Transilvan.o : Transylvain, Tr= ansylvanien Transilvani.a : (la) Transylvanie Transval : (le) Transvaal= Trinidad : (l'=EEle) Trinit=E9 Tripolit.o : (la) Tripolitaine Tunis = : Tunis Tunizi.a : (la) Tunisie Turingi.a : (la) Thuringe Turk.o : Tu= rc, Turque Turkestan : (le) Turkestan Turki.a : (la) Turquie Turkoman= .o : Turcoman, Turkm=E8ne Ugand.a : Ouganda Ural.o [fl.] : Oural [fleuv= e] Ural.i [mont.] : Oural [massif] Uruguay : (l') Uruguay Us.a : (les= ) =C9tats-Unis d'Am=E9rique Us.an.o : citoyen des =C9tats-Unis Valaki.a= : Valachie Venezuel.a : (le) V=E9n=E9zuela Vestfali.a : (la) Westphali= e Viktori.a : [l'=C9tat de] Victoria Virgini.a : (la) Virginie Voges.= i [mont.] : (les) Vosges Volini.a : (la) Volynie, Volhynie Wals : [le p= ays de] Galles Wurtemberg : (le) Wurtemberg [donner ici au W le son du V]= Yemen : Y=E9men Yugoslavi.a : Yougoslavie Zaire : Za=EFre Zambezi = [fl.] : Zamb=E8ze Zambi.a : Zambie Zanzibar : (le) Zanzibar Zimbabwe = : Zimbabwe Zulu.o : Zoulou Zulu-land.o : Zoulouland ----------------= --------------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! Gro= ups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups= .yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group= , send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com = c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1105 Return-Path: X-Sender: hlnodovic@vtr.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67445 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2004 01:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2004 01:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.vtr.net) (200.83.1.24) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2004 01:31:59 -0000 Received: from hudson.vtr.net (200.83.1.22) by mx02.vtr.net (7.0.012) id 3FCBA8A9009F857B for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:31:51 -0300 Received: from yhwh (200.83.93.6) by hudson.vtr.net (7.0.008) id 3FE9489000271EAE for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:31:51 -0300 Message-ID: <005801c3d3f4$da42aeb0$6600a8c0@yhwh> To: References: <200401051622_MC3-1-6493-E892@compuserve.com> <003501c3d3f1$87378e50$6600a8c0@yhwh> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 22:31:48 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.83.1.24 From: "Saruman El Blanco" Subject: Re: [linguo] Nomi geografiala Ido-Franca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161102152 X-Yahoo-Profile: ilustrado Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me skriptis Mantjuria, ma me mustus skriptabar Manchuria. Same "Wals e non= Weilz" mustas esar "Wals e ne Weilz" ----- Original Message ----- Fro= m: Saruman El Blanco To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, Ja= nuary 05, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [linguo] Nomi geografiala Ido-Franca= Salutesez omni! Me havas dubito, me komprenas ke la idolingua prefe= rez la internacional nomi del landi, ma pro quo konservas la old nomi, ka = ne aceptas la politik chanjin? Burma es nun Myanmar Ceylon es nun Sri = Lanka Moldavia es nun Moldova Konstantinopla es nun Istanbul (co ne ap= aris en la listo) Siam es nun Tailando Me ne komprenas pro quo: Falk= land e ne Falklando Havayi e ne Hawaii Ierusalem e ne Yerusalem Ion= ia e ne Yonia Kolumbia e ne Kolombia (la internacional nomo es Colombia= o Kolombia, Britan-Kolumbia es Kanadan, la urbo di Kolumbia es Usan) Man= djuria e ne Mantjuria Marquesas e ne Markezi (quale es Acori e non Acor= es od Asores (ido preferas sono, ne skriptura, me pensas)) Brunsvig e ne = Bronzwik Wals e non Weilz (sua nomo es dessam en omna lingui, lore me pr= eferus la Angla pronunco) Rheno e ne Rain (Rh ne es ido, me preferus la G= ermana pronunco) Virginia e neVirdjinia Wurtemberg e ne Vurtenberg (ido= preferas pronunco, ne skriptur) Kordie, Hlnodovic ----- Original= Message ----- From: R.B. Carnaghan To: Linguolisto Sent: Mo= nday, January 05, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: [linguo] Nomi geografiala Ido-F= ranca Yen listo Ido-Franca di nomi geografiala e di populani (e poka = lingui) Robert C. _______________ Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) = fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo mont.=3D(pr= i) monto o montaro Ido : Franca Abisini.a : Abyssinie Acor.i = : les A=E7ores Afgan.o : Afghan Afganistan : l'Afghanistan Afri= k.a : l'Afrique Akadi.a : l'Acadie Akay.a : l'Acha=EFe Alask.a = : Alaska Albani.a : l'Albanie Aleut.i : =EEles Al=E9outiennes A= lgarv.o : Algarve Aljer : Alger Aljeri.a : l'Alg=E9rie Alp.i [m= ont.] : les Alpes Alzaci.a : l'Alsace Amerik.a : l'Am=E9rique A= mhar.a : Amhara [pays] Amhar.an.a : amharique Anam : l'Annam An= atoli.a : l'Anatolie And.i [mont.] : les Andes Andaluzi.a : l'Andal= ousie Andor.a : le Val d'Andorre Angl.a : anglais Angl.o : Angl= ais Angli.a : l'Angleterre Angol.a : Angola Anhalt : l'Anhalt [= duch=E9] Antil.i : les Antilles Apenin.i [mont.] : les Apennins = Apuli.a : l'Apulie Aquitan.o : Aquitain Aquitani.a : l'Aquitanie = Arab.a : arabe Arab.o : Arabe Arabi.a : l'Arabie Aragon : l'= Aragon Arame.a : Aram [pays d'] Arame.an.a : aram=E9en Argolid.= o : l'Argolide Argovi.a : Argovie [canton] Arjentini.a : l'Argentin= e Arkadi.a : l'Arcadie Armeni.a : l'Arm=E9nie Arverni.a : l'Auv= ergne Aryan.a : aryen [race, langue] Aryan.o : Aryen Asiri.a : = l'Assyrie Asturi.a : les Asturies Atlantik.a [mar.] : atlantique = Atlantik.o [mar.] : l'Atlantique Aulid.o : l'Aulide Australazi.a = : Australasie Australi.a : l'Australia Austri.a : l'Autriche Av= an-Azi.a : l'Asie-Mineure Azerbaijan : Azerba=EFdjan Azi.a : l'Asie= Badeni.a : [le Gr.-D. de] Bade Baham.a : (les) Bahamas Baktri.= a : la Bactriane Balear.i : les [=EEles] Bal=E9ares Bangladesh : Ba= ngladesh Barbados : la Barbade Bavari.a : la Bavi=E8re Beduin.o= : B=E9douin [en g=E9n=E9ral] Belg.o : Belge Belgi.a : la Belgique = Belize : B=E9lize Beludj.o : B=E9loutche Beludjistan : le B=E9l= outchistan Bengal : le Bengale Benin : B=E9nin Beoti.a : la B= =E9otie Berber.o : Berb=E8re Berberi.a : Berb=E9rie Bermud.i : = les Bermudes Besarabi.a : la Bessarabie Betlehem : Bethl=E9hem = Bitini.a : la Bithynie Blank.a-Mont.o [mont.] : le Mont-Blanc Bohem= i.a : la Boh=EAme Bolivi.a : la Bolivie Borne.o : Born=E9o [=EEle] = Bosni.a : la Bosnie Botswan.a : Botswana Brabant : le Brabant = Brazili.a : le Br=E9sil Breton.o : Breton Bretoni.a : la Bretagn= e Britan.o : Breton (de Grande-Bretagne, membre du peuple ancien celtiq= ue) Britani.a : la Grande-Bretagne Britani.an.a : britannique B= runei : Brunei Brunsvig : le Brunswick [duch=E9] Bukhari.a : la Bou= kharie Bulgari.a : la Bulgarie Bur.o : Boer Burgund.o : Burgond= e Burgundi.a : la Bourgogne Burm.a : la Birmanie Burundi : Buru= ndi Bushman.o : Boshiman, Bosjeman Ceylon : Ceylan [=EEle] Cham= pani.a : la Champagne Chek.o : Tch=E8que Chekoslovaki.a : la Tch=E9= coslovaquie Chili : le Chili Chini.a : (la) Chine Chini.an.a : = chinois [adj.] Chini.an.o : Chinois [personne] Chipr.o : Chypre [= =EEle] Cilici.a : la Cilicie Cirkasi.a : la Circasie Daci.a : l= a Dacie Dalmati.a : la Dalmatie Dan.o : Danois Dani.a : le Dane= mark Danubi.o [fl.] : le Danube Dardanel.i [mar.] : les Dardanelles= Doming.a Republik.o : la R=E9publique Dominicaine Dominik.a : Domi= nique [=EEle] Dori.an.a : dorien Egad.i : les [=EEles] Egades E= gipti.a : l'Egypte Eoli.a : =C9olie [nom propre: g=E9ogr.] Eoli.an.= a : d'=C9olie Epir.o : l'Epire Equador : (la r=E9publique de) l'=C9= quateur Eritre.a : l'=C9rythr=E9e Eskimo.o : Esquimau [race] Es= toni.a : l'Esthonie Etiopi.a : l'Ethiopie Etoli.a : l'Etolie Et= ruri.a : l'Etrurie Europ.a : l'Europe Europ.an.a : europ=E9en E= urop.an.o : Europ=E9en Fair.o-Ter.o : (la) Terre-de-Feu Falkland : = les (=EEles) Falkland Fenici.a : (la) Ph=E9nicie Fernandop.o : (l'= =EEle de) Fernando Po Fidji : [les =EEles] Fidji Filipin.i : les [= =EEles] Philippines Finland.o : (la) Finlande Flandr.a : flamand = Flandr.o : Flamand Flandri.a : (la) Flandre Focid.o : (la) Phocid= e Formoz.a : [l'=EEle] Formose Franc.a : fran=E7ais Franc.o : F= ran=E7ais Franci.a : (la) France Frankoni.a : (la) Franconie Fr= igi.a : (la) Phrygie Frizi.a : (la) Frise Gabon : Gabon Galati.= a : (la) Galatie Galici.a : (la) Galicie Galile.a : (la) Galil=E9e = Galisi.a : (la) Galice Gall.o : Gaulois Galli.a : (la) Gaule = Gaskon.o : Gascon Gaskoni.a : (la) Gascogne Genov.a : G=EAnes [la= ville de] German.o : Allemand, Germain Germani.a : Allemagne, (la)= Germanie Got.a : des Goths Got.o : Goth [race] Goti.a : (la) G= othie, G=F6taland Grek.a : grec Grek.o : Grec Greki.a : (la) Gr= =E8ce Grenland.o : (le) Groenland Gruzi.a : (la) Grusie, G=E9orgie = Guadelup.a : (la) Guadeloupe Guatemal.a : (le) Guat=E9mala Guay= an.a : (la) Guyane, (les) Guyanes Guine.a : (la) Guin=E9e Haiti : [= l'=EEle de] Ha=EFti Havayi : [les =EEles] Hawa=EF Hebre.a : h=E9bra= =EFque, h=E9breu Hebre.o : H=E9breu Hebrid.i : [les =EEles] H=E9bri= des Helvet.o : Helv=E8te, Helv=E9tien Helveti.a : l'Helv=E9tie = Herzegovin.a : l'Herz=E9govine Hesi.a : la Hesse Himalay.a [mont.] = : l'Himalaya Hispan.o : Espagnol Hispani.a : l'Espagne Holand.o= : la Hollande Honduras : (le) Honduras Hungari.a : la Hongrie = Hungari.an.o : Hongrois Iberi.a : la p=E9ninsule Ib=E9rique Ierusal= em : J=E9rusalem Indi.a : l'Inde Indi.an.o : Indien [de l'Inde] = Indonezi.a : Indon=E9sie Ioni.a : l'Ionie Ioni.an.a : ionien I= rak : Iraq, Irak Iran : Iran Irland.o : l'Irlande Island.o : l'= Islande Israel : Isra=EBl Istri.a : l'Istrie Itali.a : l'Italie= Itali.an.o : Italien Ivor.a Riv.o : la C=F4te-d'Ivoire Izrael.= id.o : Isra=E9lite Jamaik.a : la Jama=EFque Japoni.a : le Japon = Japoni.an.a : japonais [adj.] Japoni.an.o : Japonais Jav.a : [l'= =EEle de] Java Jordan [fl.] : Jourdain Jordani.a : Jordanie Jud= .o : Juif Jude.a : la Jud=E9e Kab.o di Bon Esper.o : le Cap de Bonn= e-Esp=E9rance Kab.land.o : le Cap Kabverd.o : le Cap Vert Kafr.= o : Cafre [race] Kalabri.a : la Calabre Kalde.a : la Chald=E9e = Kaliforni.a : la Californie Kambodj.a : le Cambodge Kamchatk.a : le= Kamtchatka Kamerun : le Cameroun Kampani.a : la Campanie Kanaa= n : [le pays de] Canaan Kanaan.an.a : canan=E9en Kanad.a : le Canad= a Kanal.o [mar.] : (la) Manche Kanari.i : [les =EEles] Canaries = Kapadoci.a : la Cappadoce Karinti.a : la Carinthie Karpat.i [mont.= ] : les [monts] Carpathes Kashmir : le Cachemire Kastili.a : la Cas= tille Kataluni.a : la Catalogne Katar : Qatar, Katar Kaukaz.o [= mont.] : le Caucase Kaukazi.a : la Caucasie Khiv.a : [le khanat de]= Khiva Kolchid.o : la Colchide Kolumbi.a : la Colombie Konstant= inopl.o : Constantinople Kordilier.i [mont.] : les Cordilli=E8res K= ore.a : la Cor=E9e Kore.an.o : Cor=E9en Kornwal : Cornwall, les Cor= nouailles Korsik.a : la Corse Koshinchini.a : la Cochinchine Ko= starik.a : Costa-Rica Kroati.a : la Croatie Kub.a : Cuba Kurlan= d.o : Courlande Kuwait : Kowe=EFt Lag.o di Quar Kanton.i [mar.] : L= ac des Quatre Cantons Lagos : (le) Lagos Laos : Laos Lapon.o : = Lapon Laponi.a : la Laponie Latv.a : latvien Latv.o : Lette, Le= tton, Lettique Latvi.a : Lettonie Liban.o : (le) Liban Liberi.a= : (la) Lib=E9rie Libi.a : (la) Libye Lici.a : (la) Lycie Lidi.= a : (la) Lydie Liguri.a : (la) Ligurie Likaoni.a : (la) Lycaonie = Lituani.a : (la) Lithuanie Livoni.a : (la) Livonie Lombardi.a : (= la) Lombardie London : Londres Luxemburg : Luxembourg [ville] L= uxemburgi.a : (le) Luxembourg Macedoni.a : (la) Mac=E9doine Madagas= kar : Madagascar Madeir.a : (l'=EEle de) Mad=E8re Madyar.o : Madgya= r Malawi : Malawi Malay.o : Malais Mali : Mali Malt.a : [l'= =EEle de] Malte Mandjur.o : Mandchou [race] Mandjuri.a : Mandchouri= e Marian.i : [les =EEles] Mariannes Marok.o : [le] Maroc Marque= sas : [les =EEles] Marquises Martinik.a : (la) Martinique Mauric.o = : [l'=EEle] Maurice Mauritani.a : [la] Mauritanie Mayork.a : [l'=EE= le de] Majorque Med.o : M=E8de [race] Medi.a : [la] M=E9die Med= iterane.a [mar.] : m=E9diterran=E9en Mediterane.o [mar.] : (la mer) M= =E9diterran=E9e Mexik.o : Mexico [ville] Mexiki.a : [le] Mexique = Mexiki.an.o : Mexicain Mezopotami.a : [la] M=E9sopotamie Minork.a= : [l'=EEle de] Minorque Mizi.a : [la] Mysie Moab.id.o : Moabite = Moabi.a : le pays de Moab Moabi.an.o : Moabite Moldavi.a : [la] M= oldavie Monak.o : Monaco Mongol.o : Mongol Mongoli.a : [la] Mon= golie Montenegr.o : [le] Mont=E9n=E9gro Moravi.a : [la] Moravie = Mort.int.a Mar.o [mar.] : [la] Mer Morte Mozambik : Mozambique Nab= ate.i : Nabat=E9ens [peuple] Namibi.a : Namibie Natal : (le) Natal = Navar.a : (la) Navarre Nazareth : Nazareth Nederland.o : les Pa= ys-Bas Nederland.an.o : N=E9erlandais Nepal : N=E9pal Nigeri.a = : (la) Nigeria Nigr.a Mar.o [mar.] : (la) Mer Noire Nikaragu.a : (l= e) Nicaragua Normand.o : Normand Normandi.a : (la) Normandie No= rvegi.a : (la) Norv=E8ge Norvegi.an.o : Norv=E9gien Nov.a Guine.a := (la) Nouvelle-Guin=E9e Nov.a Kaledoni.a : (la) Nouvelle-Cal=E9donie = Nov.a Skoti.a : Nouvelle-=C9cosse Nov-Land.o : Terre-Neuve Nov-Su= d-Wals : (la) Nouvelle-Galles du Sud Nov-Zeland.o : Nouvelle-Z=E9lande = Nubi.a : Nubie Oceani.a : (l')Oc=E9anie Oman : Oman Or.a Ri= v.o : (la) C=F4te de l'Or Orkad.i : les [=EEles] Orcades Pacifik.a = [mar.] : pacifique [de l'oc=E9an] Pacifik.o [mar.] : Le Pacifique [Oc= =E9an] Paflagoni.a : (la) Paphlagonie Palateni.o : (le) Palatinat = Palestin.a : (la) Palestine Pamfili.a : (la) Pamphilie Panam.a := (le) Panama Panoni.a : (la) Pannonie Paraguay : (le) Paraguay = Paris : Paris Part.o : Parthe [peuple ancien] Parti.a : (la) Parthi= e, Parthy=E8ne Patagoni.a : (la) Patagonie Pers.o : Perse [race] = Persi.a : (la) Perse Peru : (le) P=E9rou Piemont : (le) Pi=E9mont= Pikardi.a : (la) Picardie Pirene.i [mont.] : (les) Pyr=E9n=E9es = Podoli.a : (la) Podolie Polinezi.a : (la) Polyn=E9sie Polon.o : P= olonais Poloni.a : (la) Pologne Pomerani.a : (la) Pom=E9ranie P= orto-Rik.o : (=EEle de) Porto-Rico Portugal : (le) Portugal Portuga= l.an.o : Portugais Posni.a : (la) Posnanie, Poznanie Principe : l'= =EEle du Prince Provenc.o : (la) Provence Prusi.a : (la) Prusse = Quinsland.o : (le) Queensland Red.a Mar.o [mar.] : (la) Mer Rouge = Reunion : [l'=EEle de] R=E9union Rhen.o [fl.] : (le) Rhin Rodezi.a = : (la) Rhod=E9sia Rok.oz.a Mont.i [mont.] : (les) Montagnes Rocheuses = Rom.a : Rome Rom.an.o : romain Romanch.a : Romanche Ruand.a = : Ruanda, Rwanda Rumani.a : (la) Roumanie Rumeli.a : (la) Roum=E9li= e Rus.o : Russe Rusi.a : (la) Russie Sahar.a : (le) Sahara = Samo.a : [les =EEles] Samoa San-Marino : Saint-Marin Sanskrit.o : s= anscrit Sant-Helen.a : Sainte-H=E9l=E8ne Sardini.a : (la) Sardaigne= Sarmat.o : Sarmate Sarmati.a : (la) Sarmatie Savoy.a : (la) Sa= voie Savoy.an.o : Savoyard Saxon.o : Saxon Saxoni.a : (la) Saxe= Sem.id.o : S=E9mite Serbi.a : (la) Serbie Siam : (le) Siam = Siberi.a : (la) Sib=E9rie Sicili.a : (la) Sicile Sierra Leone : Si= erra-Leone Silezi.a : (la) Sil=E9sie Siri.a : (la) Syrie Skandi= navi.a : (la) Scandinavie Skit.o : Scythe Skiti.a : (la) Scythie = Skot.o : =C9cossais Skoti.a : (l')=C9cosse Slav.o : Slave Sla= voni.a : (la) Slavonie Slovaki.a : Slovaquie Sloveni.a : Slov=E9nie= Somal.o : Somali Somal.i-land.o : (le) Somaliland Somali.a : S= omalie Soviet-Union.o : l'Union sovi=E9tique Sporad.i : [les =EEles= ] Sporades Stiri.a : (la) Styrie Suabi.a : (la) Souabe Sudafrik= .a : Afrique du Sud Sudan : (le) Soudan Sued.a : su=E9dois Sued= .o : Su=E9dois Suedi.a : (la) Su=E8de Suis.a : suisse Suis.o : = Suisse Suisi.a : (la) Suisse Sumatr.a : [l'=EEle de] Sumatra Su= rinam : Surinam Tanzani.a : Tanzanie Tasmani.a : (la) Tasmanie = Tatar.o : Tatar, Tartare Tatari.a : (la) Tartarie Tesali.a : (la) T= hessalie Tibet : (le) Tibet, Thibet Tigre : (le) Tigre Tigre.an= .a : Tigr=E9enne [langue] Tirol : (le) Tyrol Togo : (le) Togo T= onkin : (le) Tonkin Toskan.o : Toscan Toskani.a : (la) Toscane = Trak.o : (un) Thrace Traki.a : (la) Thrace Transilvan.o : Transylva= in, Transylvanien Transilvani.a : (la) Transylvanie Transval : (le)= Transvaal Trinidad : (l'=EEle) Trinit=E9 Tripolit.o : (la) Tripoli= taine Tunis : Tunis Tunizi.a : (la) Tunisie Turingi.a : (la) Th= uringe Turk.o : Turc, Turque Turkestan : (le) Turkestan Turki.a= : (la) Turquie Turkoman.o : Turcoman, Turkm=E8ne Ugand.a : Ouganda= Ural.o [fl.] : Oural [fleuve] Ural.i [mont.] : Oural [massif] = Uruguay : (l') Uruguay Us.a : (les) =C9tats-Unis d'Am=E9rique Us.an= .o : citoyen des =C9tats-Unis Valaki.a : Valachie Venezuel.a : (le)= V=E9n=E9zuela Vestfali.a : (la) Westphalie Viktori.a : [l'=C9tat d= e] Victoria Virgini.a : (la) Virginie Voges.i [mont.] : (les) Vosge= s Volini.a : (la) Volynie, Volhynie Wals : [le pays de] Galles = Wurtemberg : (le) Wurtemberg [donner ici au W le son du V] Yemen : Y=E9= men Yugoslavi.a : Yougoslavie Zaire : Za=EFre Zambezi [fl.] : Z= amb=E8ze Zambi.a : Zambie Zanzibar : (le) Zanzibar Zimbabwe : Z= imbabwe Zulu.o : Zoulou Zulu-land.o : Zoulouland -------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo= ! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http= ://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe fr= om this group, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.= com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! T= erms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed= ] ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go = to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubs= cribe from this group, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoog= roups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!= Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed= ] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1106 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85300 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2004 21:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2004 21:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ag.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.13) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2004 21:34:09 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ag.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id i06LY739005198 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:34:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 16:24:57 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401061626_MC3-1-64D7-2BF8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.13 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Nomi geografiala, Ido-Germana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo di nomi geografiala e nomi di populani (e poka lingui), Ido-Germa= na. Robert C. ______________ Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.= =3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro Abisini.= a : Abessinien Abisini.an.o : Abessinier Acor.i : Azoren Afgan.o : Afghane = Afganistan : Afghanistan Afrik.a : Afrika Afrik.an.o : Afrikaner Akadi.a : = Akadien Akadi.an.o : Akadier Akay.a : Achaja Akay.an.o : Achajer Alask.a : = Alaska Albani.a : Albanien Albani.an.o : Albanier Aleut.i : Al=EButen Algar= v.o : Algarbien Aljer : Algier [Stadt] Aljer.an.o : Bewohner der Stadt Algi= er Aljeri.a : Algerien Aljeri.an.o : Algerier Alp.i [mont.] : Alpen Alzaci.= a : Elsass Alzaci.an.o : Els=E4sser Amerik.a : Amerika Amerik.an.o : Amerik= aner Amhar.a : Amhara Anam : Annam Anam.an.o : Annamite Anatoli.a : Anatoli= en And.i [mont.] : Anden Andaluzi.a : Andalusien Andaluzi.an.o : Andalusier= Andor.a : Andorra Angl.a : englisch Angl.o : Engl=E4nder Angli.a : England= Angol.a : Angola Anhalt : Anhalt Antil.i : Antillen Apenin.i [mont.] : Ape= nnin(en) Apuli.a : Apulien Aquitan.o : Aquitanier Aquitani.a : Aquitanien A= rab.a : arabisch Arab.o : Araber Arabi.a : Arabien Aragon : Aragonien Arago= n.an.o : Aragonier Arame.a : =C4ram=E4a Arame.an.a : aram=E4isch Arame.an.o= : Aram=E4er Argolid.o : Argolis Argovi.a : Aargau Arjentini.a : Argentinie= n Arjentini.an.o : Argentinier Arkadi.a : Arkadien Arkadi.an.o : Arkadier A= rmeni.a : Armenien Armeni.an.o : Armenier Arverni.a : Auvergne Aryan.a : ar= isch Aryan.o : Arier Asiri.a : Assyrien Asiri.an.o : Assyrier Asturi.a : As= turien Asturi.an.o : Asturier Atlantik.a [mar.] : atlantische Atlantik.o [m= ar.] : der atlantische Ozean Aulid.o : Aulis Australazi.a : Australien und = Ozeanien Australi.a : Australien Australi.an.o : Australier Austri.a : =D6s= terreich Austri.an.o : =D6sterreicher Avan-Azi.a : Kleinasien Azerbaijan : = Aserbaidschan Azi.a : Asien Azi.an.o : Asiate Badeni.a : Baden [Grossherzog= tum] Badeni.an.o : Badener Baham.a : Bahama [Inseln] Baktri.a : Baktrien Ba= lear.i : Balearen Bangladesh : Bangladesch, Bangladesh, Bangla Desh Barbado= s : Barbados Bavari.a : Bayern Bavari.an.o : Bayer Beduin.o : Beduine (W=FC= stenaraber) Belg.o : Belgier Belgi.a : Belgien Belize : Belize Beludj.o : B= elutsche Beludjistan : Belutschistan Bengal : Bengalen Benin : Benin Beoti.= a : B=F6otien Beoti.an.o : B=F6otier Berber.o : Berber Berberi.a : Berberei= Bermud.i : Bermudas [Inseln] Besarabi.a : Bessarabien Betlehem : Bethlemen= Bitini.a : Bithynien Blank.a-Mont.o [mont.] : Mont-Blanc Bohemi.a : B=F6hm= en Bohemi.an.o : B=F6hme Bolivi.a : Bolivia Bolivi.an.o : Bolivier Borne.o = : Borneo Bosni.a : Bosnien Bosni.an.o : Bosnier Botswan.a : Botswana Braban= t : Brabant Brabant.an.o : Brabanter Brazili.a : Brasilien Brazili.an.o : B= rasilianer Breton.o : Bretone Bretoni.a : (die) Bretagne Britan.o : Brite [= Alt. Volk] Britani.a : Britannien, Grossbrittanien Britani.an.a : britisch = Brunei : Brunei Brunsvig : Braunschweig Bukhari.a : Bucharei Bulgari.a : Bu= lgarien Bulgari.an.o : Bulgare Bur.o : Bure Burgund.o : Burgunder [alt] Bur= gundi.a : Burgund Burgundi.an.o : Burgunder [modern] Burm.a : Birma Burm.an= .o : Birmane Burundi : Burundi Bushman.o : Buschmann Ceylon : Ceylon Champa= ni.a : Champagne Champani.an.o : Einwohner der Champagne Chek.o : Tscheche = Chekoslovaki.a : die Tschechoslowakei Chili : Chile Chili.an.o : Chilene Ch= ini.a : China Chini.an.a : chinesisch Chini.an.o : Chinese Chipr.o : Cypern= Chipr.an.o : Cyprier Cilici.a : Cilicien Cirkasi.a : Zirkassien Cirkasi.an= .o : Zirkassier, Tscherkesse Daci.a : Dacien Dalmati.a : Dalmatien Dalmati.= an.o : Dalmatier Dan.o : D=E4ne Dani.a : D=E4nemark Danubi.o [fl.] : Donau = Dardanel.i [mar.] : Dardanellen [Meerenge] Doming.a Republik.o : Dominikani= sche Republik Doming.an.o : Dominikaner Dominik.a : Dominica [Insel] Dori.a= n.a : dorisch [Rasse, Dialekt, Tonart] Egad.i : =C4gaden Egipti.a : =C4gypt= en Egipti.an.o : =C4gypter Eoli.a : =C4olien Eoli.an.a : =E4olisch [Rasse, = Dialekt, Tonart] Epir.o : Epirus Epir.an.o : Epirote Equador : Ecuador Erit= re.a : Erythr=E4a Eskimo.o : Eskimo Estoni.a : Estland Estoni.an.o : Estl= =E4nder Etiopi.a : =C4thiopien Etiopi.an.o : =C4thiopier Etoli.a : =C4tolie= n Etoli.an.o : =C4tolier Etruri.a : Etrurien Etruri.an.o : Etrurier Europ.a= : Europa Europ.an.a : europ=E4isch Europ.an.o : Europ=E4er Fair.o-Ter.o : = Feuerland Falkland : Falklandinseln Fenici.a : Ph=F6nizien Fenici.an.o : Ph= =F6nizier Fernandop.o : Fernando Po [Insel] Fidji : Fidschi-Inseln Filipin.= i : Philippinen Filipin.an.o : Philippiner Finland.o : Finnland Finland.an.= o : Finnl=E4nder Flandr.a : fl=E4misch Flandr.o : Flame Flandri.a : Flander= n Flandri.an.o : Flaml=E4nder, Flam=E4nder, Fl=E4me Focid.o : Phokis Formoz= .a : Formosa Franc.a : franz=F6sisch Franc.o : Franzose Franci.a : Frankrei= ch Frankoni.a : Franken Frankoni.an.o : Franke Frigi.a : Phrygien Frigi.an.= o : Phrygier Frizi.a : Friesland Frizi.an.o : Friese Gabon : Gabun Galati.a= : Galatien [=F6sterr. Kronland] Galici.a : Galizien [Polen & Ukraine] Gali= ci.an.o : Galizier Galile.a : Galil=E4a Galile.an.o : Galil=E4er Galisi.a := Galizien [in Spanien] Galisi.an.o : Galizier Gall.o : Gallier Galli.a : Ga= llien Gaskon.o : Gascogner Gaskoni.a : Gascogne Gaskoni.an.o : Bewohner der= Gascogne Genov.a : Genua German.o : Deutscher Germani.a : Deutschland Got.= a : gotisch Got.o : Gote Goti.a : Gotland Grek.a : griechisch Grek.o : Grie= che Greki.a : Griechenland Grenland.o : Gr=F6nland Grenland.an.o : Gr=F6nl= =E4nder Gruzi.a : Georgien, Gruzinien Guadelup.a : Guadelupe Guatemal.a : G= uatemala Guayan.a : Guayana Guine.a : Guinea Haiti : Ha=EFti Havayi : Hawa= =EF Hebre.a : hebr=E4isch [Sprache] Hebre.o : Hebr=E4er Hebrid.i : Hebriden= Helvet.o : Helvetier Helveti.a : Helvetien Herzegovin.a : Herzegowina Hesi= .a : Hessen Hesi.an.o : Hesse Himalay.a [mont.] : Himalaya Hispan.o : Spani= er Hispani.a : Spanien Holand.o : Holland Holand.an.o : Holl=E4nder Hondura= s : Honduras Hungari.a : Ungarn Hungari.an.o : Ungar Iberi.a : Iberische Ha= lbinsel Ierusalem : Jerusalem Indi.a : Indien Indi.an.o : Indianer Indonezi= .a : Indonesien Ioni.a : Ionien Ioni.an.a : ionisch [Rasse, Dial., Tonart, = Philos.] Ioni.an.o : Ionier Irak : der Irak Iran : (der) Iran Irland.o : Ir= land Irland.an.o : Irl=E4nder, Ire Island.o : Island Island.an.o : Isl=E4nd= er Israel : Israel Istri.a : Istrien Istri.an.o : Istrier Itali.a : Italien= Itali.an.o : Italiener Ivor.a Riv.o : Elfenbeink=FCste Izrael.id.o : Israe= lit Jamaik.a : Jamaika Japoni.a : Japan Japoni.an.a : japanisch Japoni.an.o= : Japaner Jav.a : Java Jav.an.o : Javane Jordan [fl.] : Jordan Jordani.a := Jordanien Jud.o : Jude Jude.a : Jud=E4a Kab.o di Bon Esper.o : Kap der gut= en Hoffnung Kab.land.o : Kapland, Kapkolonie Kabverd.o : Kap Verde Kafr.o := Kaffer Kalabri.a : Kalabrien Kalabri.an.o : Kalabrese Kalde.a : Chald=E4a = Kalde.an.o : Chald=E4er Kaliforni.a : Kalifornien Kaliforni.an.o : Kaliforn= ier Kambodj.a : Kambodscha Kambodj.an.o : Kambodschaner Kamchatk.a : Kamtsc= hatka Kamerun : Kamerun Kampani.a : Kampanien Kanaan : Kanaan Kanad.a : Kan= ada Kanad.an.o : Kanadier Kanal.o [mar.] : der Kanal, =C4rmelmeer Kanari.i = : Kanarische Inseln Kapadoci.a : Kappadozien Karinti.a : K=E4rnten Karpat.i= [mont.] : Karpathen Kashmir : Kaschmir Kastili.a : Kastilien Kastili.an.o = : Kastilier Kataluni.a : Katalonien Kataluni.an.o : Katalonier Katar : Kata= r Kaukaz.o [mont.] : Kaukasus Kaukazi.a : Kaukasien Kaukazi.an.o : Kaukasie= r Khiv.a : Chiwa Kolchid.o : Kolchis Kolumbi.a : Kolumbien, Kolumbia Kolumb= i.an.o : Kolumbier Konstantinopl.o : Konstantinopel Kordilier.i [mont.] : K= ordilleren Kore.a : Korea Kore.an.o : Koreaner Kornwal : Cornwall Korsik.a = : Korsika Korsik.an.o : Korse Koshinchini.a : Kochinchina Koshinchini.an.o = : Kochinchinese Kostarik.a : Costa Rica, Kostarika Kroati.a : Kroatien Kroa= ti.an.o : Kroate Kub.a : Kuba Kub.an.o : Kubaner Kurland.o : Kurland Kuwait= : Kuwait Lag.o di Quar Kanton.i [mar.] : Vierwaldst=E4ttersee Lagos : Lago= s Laos : Laos Lapon.o : Lappe, Lappl=E4nder Laponi.a : Lappland Latv.a : le= ttisch Latv.o : Lette Latvi.a : Lettland Liban.o : Libanon Liberi.a : Liber= ia Libi.a : Libyen Libi.an.o : Libyer Lici.a : Lycien Lici.an.o : Lycier Li= di.a : Lydien Lidi.an.o : Lydier Liguri.a : Ligurien Liguri.an.o : Ligurier= Likaoni.a : Lykaonien Lituani.a : Litauen Lituani.an.o : Litauer Livoni.a = : Livland Livoni.an.o : Livl=E4nder Lombardi.a : Lombardei Lombardi.an.o : = Lombard London : London Luxemburg : Luxemburg [Stadt] Luxemburgi.a : Luxemb= urg [Land] Luxemburgi.an.o : Luxemburger Macedoni.a : Mazedonien Macedoni.a= n.o : Mazedonier Madagaskar : Madagaskar Madeir.a : Madera Madyar.o : Madja= r, Magjar Malawi : Malawi Malay.o : Malaie Mali : Mali Malt.a : Malta Malt.= an.o : Malteser Mandjur.o : Mandschu [Mensch] Mandjuri.a : Mandschurei Mari= an.i : Marianen Marok.o : Marokko Marok.an.o : Marokkaner Marquesas : Marqu= esasinseln Martinik.a : Martinique Mauric.o : Maritius Mauritani.a : Maurit= anien Mayork.a : Majorka Med.o : Meder Medi.a : Medien Mediterane.a [mar.] = : Mittelmeer- Mediterane.o [mar.] : Mittell=E4ndisches (Meer), Mittelmeer M= exik.o : Mexiko [Stadt] Mexiki.a : Mexiko [Land] Mexiki.an.o : Mexikaner Me= zopotami.a : Mesopotamien Minork.a : Minorka Mizi.a : Mysien Moab.id.o : Mo= abit Moabi.an.o : Moabiter Moldavi.a : Moldau Moldavi.an.o : Moldauer Monak= .o : Monako Mongol.o : Mongole Mongoli.a : Mongolei Montenegr.o : Montenegr= o Montenegr.an.o : Montenegriner Moravi.a : M=E4hren Moravi.an.o : M=E4hre = Mort.int.a Mar.o [mar.] : Totes Meer Mozambik : Mosambik Nabate.i : Nabat= =E4er Namibi.a : Namibia Natal : Natal Navar.a : Navarra Nazareth : Nazaret= h Nederland.o : Niederlande Nederland.an.o : Niederl=E4nder Nepal : Nepal N= igeri.a : Nigeria Nigr.a Mar.o [mar.] : Schwarzes Meer Nikaragu.a : Nicarag= ua Normand.o : Normanne Normandi.a : Normandie Norvegi.a : Norwegen Norvegi= .an.o : Norweger Nov.a Guine.a : Neuguinea Nov.a Kaledoni.a : Neukaledonien= Nov.a Skoti.a : Neuschottland Nov-Land.o : Neufundland Nov-Sud-Wals : Neus= =FCdwales Nov-Zeland.o : Neuseeland Nubi.a : Nubien Nubi.an.o : Nubier Ocea= ni.a : Ozeanien Oman : Oman Or.a Riv.o : Goldk=FCste Orkad.i : Orkaden [Ins= eln] Pacifik.a [mar.] : pazifisch Pacifik.o [mar.] : Stiller Ozean, (der) P= azifishe Ozean, (de Paflagoni.a : Paphlagonien Palateni.o : Pfalz Palateni.= an.o : Pf=E4lzer Palestin.a : Pal=E4stina Pamfili.a : Pamphylien Panam.a : = Panama Panoni.a : Pannonien Paraguay : Paraguay Paris : Paris Part.o : Part= er Parti.a : Parthien Patagoni.a : Patagonien Patagoni.an.o : Patagonier Pe= rs.o : Perser [alt. Volk] Persi.a : Persien Persi.an.o : Persier Peru : Per= u Peru.an.o : Peruaner Piemont : Piemont Piemont.an.o : Piemontese Pikardi.= a : Pikardie Pirene.i [mont.] : Pyren=E4en Podoli.a : Posolien Podoli.an.o = : Podolier Polinezi.a : Polynesien Polinezi.an.o : Polynesier Polon.o : Pol= e Poloni.a : Polen Pomerani.a : Pommern Pomerani.an.o : Pommer Porto-Rik.o = : Porto-Rico Portugal : Portugal Portugal.an.o : Portugiese Posni.a : Posen= Posni.an.o : Posener Principe : Principe [Insel] Provenc.o : Provence Prov= enc.an.o : Provenzale Prusi.a : Preussen Prusi.an.o : Preusse Quinsland.o := Queensland Quinsland.an.o : Queensl=E4nder Red.a Mar.o [mar.] : Rotes Meer= Reunion : R=E9union [Insel] Rhen.o [fl.] : Rhein Rodezi.a : Rhodesia Rok.o= z.a Mont.i [mont.] : Felsengebirge Rom.a : Rom Romanch.a : romantsch, r=E4t= oromanisch, churwelsch [Sprache] Ruand.a : Ruanda Rumani.a : Rum=E4nien Rum= ani.an.o : Rum=E4ne Rumeli.a : Rumelien Rumeli.an.o : Rumelier Rus.o : Russ= e Rusi.a : Russland Sahar.a : Sahara Samo.a : Samoa(inseln) San-Marino : Sa= n Marino Sanskrit.o : Sanskrit Sant-Helen.a : Sankt Helena Sardini.a : Sard= inien Sardini.an.o : Sardinier, Sarde Sarmat.o : Sarmate Sarmati.a : Sarmat= ien Savoy.a : Savoyen Savoy.an.o : Savoyarde Saxon.o : Sachse Saxoni.a : Sa= chsen Sem.id.o : Semite Senegal.an.o : Senegalese Serbi.a : Serbien Serbi.a= n.o : Serbe Siam : Siam Siam.an.o : Siamese Siberi.a : Sibirien Siberi.an.o= : Siberier Sicili.a : Sizilien Sicili.an.o : Sizilier Sierra Leone : Sierr= a Leone Silezi.a : Schlesien Silezi.an.o : Schlesier Siri.a : Syrien Skandi= navi.a : Skandinavien Skandinavi.an.o : Skandinavier Skit.o : Skythe Skiti.= a : Skythien Skot.o : Schotte Skoti.a : Schottland Slav.o : Slawe Slavoni.a= : Slavonien Slovaki.a : Slowakei Sloveni.a : Slowenien Somal.o : Somali, S= omalier Somal.i-land.o : Somalik=FCste Somali.a : Somalia Soviet-Union.o : = Sowjetunion Sporad.i : Sporaden [Inseln] Stiri.a : Steiermark Stiri.an.o : = Steferm=E4rker Suabi.a : Schwaben Suabi.an.o : Schwabe Sudafrik.a : S=FCdaf= rika Sudan : Sudan Sudan.an.o : Sudaner, -ese Sued.a : schwedisch Sued.o : = Schwede Suedi.a : Schweden Suis.a : schweizerisch Suis.o : Schweizer Suisi.= a : Schweiz Sumatr.a : Sumatra Surinam : Surinam Tanzani.a : Tansania Tasma= ni.a : Tasmanien, Vandiemensland Tasmani.an.o : Tasmanier Tatar.o : Tatar T= atari.a : Tatarei Tesali.a : Thessalien Tesali.an.o : Thessalier Tibet : Ti= bet Tibet.an.o : Tibetaner Tigre : Tigre Tirol : Tirol Tirol.an.o : Tiroler= Togo : Togoland Tonkin : Tonkin Tonkin.an.o : Tonkinese Toskan.o : Toskane= r Toskani.a : Toskana Trak.o : Thrazier Traki.a : Thrazien Transilvan.o : S= iebenb=FCrge Transilvani.a : Siebenb=FCrgen Transval : Transvaal Transval.a= n.o : Transvaaler Trinidad : Trinidad Tripolit.o : Tripolis [Land] Tripolit= .an.o : Tripolitaner Tunis : Tunis [Stadt] Tunizi.a : Tunis [Land] Tunizi.a= n.o : Tuniser Turingi.a : Th=FCringen Turingi.an.o : Th=FCringer Turk.o : T= =FCrke Turkestan : Turkestan Turkestan.an.o : Turkestanier Turki.a : T=FCrk= ei Turkoman.o : Turkmene Ugand.a : Uganda Ural.o [fl.] : Ural [Zufluss] Ura= l.i [mont.] : Ural [Gebirge] Uruguay : Uruguay Us.a : Vereinigte Staaten vo= n (Nord)Amerika Us.an.o : Amerikaner [der Ver. Staaten] Valaki.a : Walachei= Valaki.an.o : Walache Venezuel.a : Venezuela Venezuel.an.o : Venezolaner V= estfali.a : Westfalen Vestfali.an.o : Westfale Viktori.a : Viktoria [Austra= lien] Virgini.a : Virginia [Staat] Voges.i [mont.] : Vogesen Volini.a : Wol= hynien Volini.an.o : Wolhynier Wals : Wales Wurtemberg : W=FCrttemberg Wurt= emberg.an.o : W=FCrttemberger Yemen : (der) Jemen Yugoslavi.a : Jugoslawien= Zaire : Zaire Zambezi [fl.] : Sambesi Zambi.a : Sambia Zanzibar : Sansibar= Zimbabwe : Simbabwe Zulu.o : Zulu Zulu-land.o : Zululand From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1107 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93246 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2004 06:31:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2004 06:31:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2004 06:31:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.250] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2004 06:31:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 06:31:44 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 6558 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Transitiveso verbala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sro. Carlo NARDINI, vu skribis: >Dume, E.A.R. konsiderez la sequanta = frazi: >1- lu dronis sua spozino [formo transitiva aktiva] >2- lun repugn= as la sango; lu ne uzis kultelo nek pistolo, lu dronis [formo transitiva k= un objekto tacita, quala "lu manjas, lu lektas"] >3- lua spozino dronesis = (forsan da lu) [formo transitiva pasiva] >4- lua spozino dronis su (pro su= a volo) [formo reflektiva] >5- lua spozino +dronis (pro mala chanco) [form= o netransitiva]. >(...) Singla formo verbala es necesa por preciza expreso= dil penso (Por mea yena expliko me numerizis vua exempli). Ya singla fr= azo montras diferanta nuanco, e li omna meritas sua formo aparta. Tamen du= ras permanar la problemo quan me intencis indikar antee: la exempli (2) e = (5) fakte havas la sama formo surfacala (li amba havas la sama formo e nul= objekto). Pro to me konsideras ke li povus esar konfundigiva en kuntexto = qua ne helpus decidar quo esabas la uzo intencata. Ne obliviez ke to ne es= as apene afero gramatikala, ma importanta difero sencala. Se me dicas "Lu = dronis" segun l'exemplo 2, lu es ocidero ma lu vivas. Se me dicas exakte l= a sama vorti "Lu dronis" segun l'exemplo 5, lu ne es ocidero, ma lu es mor= tinta. Pluse, konsiderez ke amba idei povus aparar en la sama kuntexto. I= maginez ke la spozulo quan repugnas la sango, e konseque DRONAS (signifiko= 2) pos DRONIR (signifiko 2), acidente falas en la sama aquo e DRONAS (sig= nifiko 5) en la sama aquo apud sua spozino. Lu dronas (2) e pos lu dronas = (5). Vua propozajo (5) semblas sequar la modelo Angla. "He/She drowned" t= radukas vua idei (2) e (5). La lingui novlatina kontree semblas preferar u= zar la sama formo por (4) kam por (5). Exemple en la Hispana: "Su esposa s= e ahog=F3" ne explikas kad el mortis acidente od el suocidis. Parenteze, p= ermisez a me mikra korektiguro: DRONAR esas kustumale H: ahogar, ne "anega= r", qua es fakte "plenigar loko de aquo tale ke ol restas neutila o netran= sitebla": La ciudad se aneg=F3 por las lluvias incesantes (La urbo inundes= is/inundis su pro la pluvi sencesa). Ta frazo es anke exemplo di verbo ref= lektiva Hispana sen signifiko di intenco. (To es adminime la uzado Arjenti= na, ma ni vartez til ke Hispane parolanti de altra loki opinionez pri la t= emo). Retrovenante a nia gramatiko, pro quo la formo reflektiva devas ind= ikar exkluzive ago intencata? Pro quo on ne povas "dronar su" acidente? Me= trovabas nula indiko di to en la KGD. Semblas ke ca formo es uzebla ambak= aze, ed oportus explikar plu bone la motivo di la drono, per la kuntexto. = Tale vua frazi (4) e (5) restus, segun la nuna sistemo: (4) Lua spozino d= ronis su pro sua volo/ Lua spozino suocidis per drono/ edc. (5) Lua spozi= no dronis su acidente / Lua spozino falis e dronis su/ edc. Ya esus inter= esanta introduktar modifiko en nia sistemo verbala por ke la idei (4) e (5= ) esez plu facile diferigebla plu simple, exemple per aparta formi verbala= . Ma on ne establisez la diferigo per igar la verbo en (5) netransitiva, p= ro ke to igus ol identa a (2), e l'ambigueso restus. Quale diferigar (4) d= e (5), sen uzar longa explikuri? Ho, yen la questiono! Me fakte ne savas l= o malgre ke me pensis pri co. CN: "Me konsilas anke lektar la esayo pri "= Transitiveso en Ido", partikulare la punto (g), da Gon=E7alo Neves, che lu= a retala situo." Me dankas la konsilo, quan me ya sequis. Ca esayo es tre = interesanta, e klarigiva. En sua esayo, Gon=E7alo Neves propozas la sequa= nta klasifiko por la verbi: GN: "Stando-verbi (t.e. verbi qui exprimas ha= lto od akumuleso di energio): esar, semblar, aspektar, existar." GN: "Ago= -verbi (t.e. verbi qui exprimas transferro o transformo di energio): vidar,= skribar, amar, krear, audar, naskar, mortar, manjar, abundar, pavorar, di= venar, kredar, konstruktar, edc." GN: "La stando-verbi principe ne genitas= problemi, same kam estuario. La ago-verbi kontree kelke petulas e jenas, = same kam torento. Por plu bone analizar li, konvenas dividar li en du kate= gorii:" GN: "Ago-verbi subjektala: ca verbi exprimas energiala transfero o= transformo quan entamas ento (subjekto) e qua atingas od afektas nur ta = sama ento: mortar, vivar, abundar, kreskar, arivar, venar, audacar, edc." = GN: "Ago-verbi objektala: ca verbi exprimas energiala transfero o transfo= rmo quan entamas ento (subjekto) e qua atingas od afektas ne nur ta sama e= nto, ma anke altra ento (objekto): skribar, vidar, dicar, divenar, divinar= , amuzar, parturar, ocidar, aceptar, adherar, apartenar, astonar, rekursar= , edc." GN: "Koncerne la transfero di energio, existas nul difero inter la= verbo skribar e la verbo apartenar." Es interesanta ke la klasifiko verb= al quan propozas Gon=E7alo Neves korespondas al klasifiko facita da autori= samlinguani kam Sro. NEVES, quala Cegalla, Aur=E9lio o Luft, por sua ling= uo, la Portugalana. Ta klasifiko (uzata adminime en *Brazil[1]) semblas pl= u apta deskripturo dil vera stando dil verbi, kam la klasifiko uzata por a= ltra lingui Europana. Yen la klasifiko dil verbi Portugalana: -verbi liga= la (verbos de liga=E7=E3o) (Segun GN: "Stando-verbi": esar, semblar...) -= verbi netransitiva (verbos intransitivos) (Segun GN: "Ago-verbi subjektala= ": mortar, vivar...) -verbi transitiva direta (verbos transitivos diretos)= (Segun GN: "Ago- verbi objektal" qui ne postulas prepoziciono: skribar, vi= dar, divinar...) -verbi transitiva nedireta (verbos transitivos indiretos= ) (Segun GN: "Ago-verbi objektal" qui postulas prepoziciono: adherar, apa= rtenar, rekursar...). -verbi transitiva direta e nedireta (verbos transiti= vos diretos e indiretos): Ago-verbi objektal qui postulas du objekti. Un k= un prepoziciono ed un sen olu: donar, questionar, dicar...) La klasifiko = por la verbi Portugalana povus esar utila por Ido (same kam la kriterio da= Gon=E7alo Neves, pri la transformo o transfero energiala) nam ol konsider= as verbi quala "adherar" kom transitiva. [1] Pri la listo de landi recente= publikigita da Robert CARNAGHAN, me ne konkordas pri la selekto di "Brazi= li.a" por la lando Sudamerikana Portugalane-parolanta. La chefurbo di ta l= ando de cirkume 40 yari es Port: "Bras=EDlia", qua pronuncesas [bra-ZI-lya= ]. To esas chanjo plu recenta kam Ido, qua ne povis olim savar ke ca lando= esis kreonta plu tarde urbo kun nomo tante simila ad olta donita al lando= en nia linguo. Pro to, me propozas *Brazil o *Brasil por la lando, *Braz= ilano o *Brasilano por la habitanti, e *Brazilia o *Brasilia por lua chefu= rbo (habitanto: Braziliano o Brasiliano, qua anke similus la Port: brasili= ano). Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1108 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24803 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2004 21:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2004 21:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.4) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2004 21:09:06 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id i08L95mQ000650 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:09:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 16:05:23 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401081606_MC3-1-653A-923A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.4 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: [linguo] Nomi geografiala Ido-Franca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Hlnodovic / Saruman El Blanco skribis: >Me havas dubito, [;] me komprenas ke la idolingua [Idolinguo] preferez [preferas] la internacional [internaciona] nomi del [dil] landi, ma pro quo konservas [ol konservas] la old [anciena] nomi,[.] ka [Kad ol] ne aceptas la politik [politikala] chanjin [chanji]? Burma es nun Myanmar Ceylon es nun Sri Lanka Moldavia es nun Moldova Konstantinopla [Konstantinoplo] es nun Istanbul (co ne aparis en la listo) Siam es nun Tailando< Respondo: Mea unesma tasko esis kompilar listo dil vorti geografiala ja existanta en Ido, e la duesma tasko esas pensar pri nova vorti bezonata, nam dum longa tempo preske nula nova landonomi adoptesis en Ido. La listo rezultis de la unesma tasko qua ja okupis sat multa tempo. Nomi historiala quale "Konstantinoplo" duras esar korekta kande on parolas pri periodo ante adopto di nova nomo. Exemple, tradukante texto de tala periodo on mustas uzar la nomi quin lore on uzis. Dicar ke "Siam" esas nun "Tailando" semblas esar kelke stranja aserto. Forsan "Tailando" future esos vorto en Ido, ma me ne savas a qua linguo nun apartenas la vorto "Tailando". Me kredas ke "Moldavia" samtempe esas e ne esas nun "Moldova", nam semblas ke ol esis ed esas "Moldova" en un o forsan plura lingui, ed ol esis ed esas "Moldavia" en ula altra lingui ed en Ido. Moderna Franca vortolibro donas la nomo "Moldavie", e moderna Hispana vortolibro donas la nomo "Moldavia". Simile, Hispania esas "Espana" (kun diakritiko sur la litero "n") en un linguo (la Hispana), "Espagne" en altra (la Franca), "Spain" en triesma (la Angla), e tale pluse. Hlnodovic / Saruman El Blanco anke skribis: >Me ne komprenas pro quo: Falkland e ne Falklando Havayi e ne Hawaii Ierusalem e ne Yerusalem Ionia e ne Yonia Kolumbia e ne Kolombia (la internacional nomo es Colombia o Kolombia, Britan-Kolumbia es Kanadan, la urbo di Kolumbia es Usan) Mandjuria e ne Mantjuria Marquesas e ne Markezi (quale es Acori e non Acores od Asores (ido preferas sono, ne skriptura, me pensas)) Brunsvig e ne Bronzwik Wals e non Weilz (sua nomo es dessam en omna lingui, lore me preferus la Angla pronunco) Rheno e ne Rain (Rh ne es ido, me preferus la Germana pronunco) Virginia e neVirdjinia Wurtemberg e ne Vurtenberg (ido preferas pronunco, ne skriptur)< Respondo: On bezonas trovar (forsan en anciena numeri di "Progreso") e lektar la diskuti kande on konsideris ed adoptis la diversa vorti. Esis multa diskuti pri vorti en la pagini di "Progreso" dum olua frua yari, e lore esis plu multa linguisti Idista. Robert C. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1109 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24983 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2004 23:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2004 23:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2004 23:00:07 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.9) id i09N05jq011396 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 18:00:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:40:58 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401091742_MC3-1-656D-2DF3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.133 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Transitiveso verbala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Eduardo A. RODI skribis: >Pri la listo de landi recente publikigita da Robe= rt CARNAGHAN, me ne konkordas pri la selekto di "Brazili.a" por la lando S= udamerikana Portugalane-parolanta. La chefurbo di ta lando de cirkume 40 y= ari es Port: "Bras=EDlia", qua pronuncesas [bra-ZI-lya]. To esas chanjo pl= u recenta kam Ido, qua ne povis olim savar ke ca lando esis kreonta plu t= arde urbo kun nomo tante simila ad olta donita al lando en nia linguo. Pro= to, me propozas *Brazil o *Brasil por la lando, *Brazilano o *Brasilano p= or la habitanti, e *Brazilia o *Brasilia por lua chefurbo (habitanto: Braz= iliano o Brasiliano, qua anke similus la Port: brasiliano).< Respondo: ye= s, me konsentas ke esas problemo. Persone, me aceptas ke ni bezonas kelke m= odernigar Ido, nam cirkonstanci chanjis depos olua kreo. Semblas a me ke es= us plu bona se ni konsentus pri omna chanji bezonata pri nomi geografiala d= ezirata, e lore facus omna ta chanji samtempe. Se itga altra tala chanji es= as bezonata, voluntez mencionar li. Me ne pensas tale pri nova nomi geograf= iala ma nur pri chanji. Eduardo A. RODI anke skribis, citante Carlo Nardi= ni: >1- lu dronis sua spozino [formo transitiva aktiva] >2- lun repugnas = la sango; lu ne uzis kultelo nek pistolo, lu dronis [formo transitiva kun = objekto tacita, quala "lu manjas, lu lektas"] >3- lua spozino dronesis (fo= rsan da lu) [formo transitiva pasiva] >4- lua spozino dronis su (pro sua v= olo) [formo reflektiva] >5- lua spozino +dronis (pro mala chanco) [formo n= etransitiva]. >(...) Singla formo verbala es necesa por preciza expreso di= l penso (Por mea yena expliko me numerizis vua exempli).< Respondo: Vu ex= plikis bone pro quo ankore restas problemo (se "dronar" esus ambe transitiv= a e netransitiva). Semblas a me ke kande "dronar" esas nur transitiva, qua= le nun, exempli 4 e 5 esas distingebla (4: dronis su; 5: dronesis), ma ke 3= e 5 ne esas klare distingebla (por amba: dronesis), adminime se on kompren= as "dronar su" kom ago ulgrade intencala. (Segun mea vidpunto, esus tam abs= urda dicar "dronar su" kam dicar "ocidar su" en kazo di persono qua simple = mortis, sive pro drono sive pro falo o falio kordiala.) Alternative, se "d= ronar" esus nur netransitiva (quale "mortar"), por la senci 1 on uzus "dron= igis" kun objekto, por 2 "dronigis" sen objekto, por 3 "dronigesis", por 4 = "dronigis su", e por 5 "dronis". Ka ne omno takaze esus klara? (Kazo 5 esas= utila ne nur kande on savas ke esis acidento ma anke plu generale, kande o= n ne savas pro quo ulu "dronis" [netransitive] o kande on volas nur dicar k= e ulu mortis tale, sen dicar pluse.) Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1110 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 64445 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2004 17:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2004 17:13:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr4.sis.it) (217.72.32.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2004 17:13:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 1606 invoked by uid 108); 10 Jan 2004 18:09:32 +0100 Received: from narcar@sis.it by fr4 by uid 102 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc4 (clamuko: 0.60. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.933194 secs); 10 Jan 2004 19:09:32 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: narcar@sis.it via fr4 X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20rc4 (Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.933194 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO nardinic) (217.72.33.160) by 0 with SMTP; 10 Jan 2004 18:09:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3d7a1$339f72e0$a02148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:42:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.27 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Verbi reflektiva X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus ### Parolante pri verbi ergativa* e propozinte konsiderar "dronar" kom tala, me respondis per ula exempli a Eduardo A. Rodi, +quu kritikabis la tota koncepto di ergativeso. <<< E.A.R. konsiderez la difero inter la sequanta frazi: 1 - lu dronis sua spozino [formo transitiva aktiva] 2 - lun repugnas la sango; lu ne uzis kultelo nek pistolo, lu dronis [formo transitiva kun objekto tacita, quala "lu manjas, lu lektas"] 3 - lua spozino dronesis (forsan da lu) [formo transitiva pasiva] 4 - lua spozino dronis su (pro sua volo) [formo reflektiva] 5 - lua spozino +dronis (pro mala chanco) [formo netransitiva] Singla formo verbala es necesa por preciza expreso dil penso. >>> ### Seque to, E.A.R. skribis. <<< Ya singla frazo montras diferanta nuanco, e li omna meritas sua formo aparta. Tamen duras permanar la problemo quan me intencis indikar antee: la exempli 2 e 5 fakte havas la sama formo surfacala (li amba havas la sama formo e nul objekto). Pro to me konsideras ke li povus esar konfundigiva en kuntexto qua ne helpus decidar quo esabas la uzo intencata. >>> Segun me, vua problemo es nur teoriala. Es desfacila, se ne tote neposibla, imaginar frazo kun verbo transitiva sen objekto, quala "lu dronis", exter kuntexto explikanta. Mea plulongigo dil frazo 2 debesis precize a to: obtenar frazo sencoza. En la KGD la problemo dil senc-dualeso dil "mixita verbi" konjedesas kurte tale: "nul ambigueso povas rezultar de to, nam se li uzesas transitive li havas objekto...se li uzesas netransitive, li ne havas objekto"...ta procedo supresas fonto di desfacilaji quaze nevinkebla..." Me adjuntas por preventar facila objeciono: mem se l'objekto dil verbo transitiva es surfacale tacita, olua prezenteso en la strukturo profunda es sempre rikonocebla. Nu, por eliminar ca dualeso preske nur teoriala, vu sugestas panikifanta chanji gramatikala, lexikala, mentala, quala "konsiderar la ergativa verbi kom nur transitiva, o kom nur netransitiva, o introduktar aparta formo verbala o altro". To equivalas, pardonez me, marteleg-aplastar la moskiti an la parieto; pov esar to eliminos la moskiti; certe to destruktas la parieti. ### E.A.R. anke skribis. <<< ...La lingui novlatina kontree semblas preferar uzar la sama formo por 4 kam por 5. ...Retrovenante a nia gramatiko, pro quo la formo reflektiva devas indikar exkluzive ago intencata? Pro quo on ne povas "dronar su" acidente? Me trovabas nula indiko di to en la KGD... La ciudad se aneg� por las lluvias incesantes (la urbo inundesis/inundis su pro la pluvi sencesa). Ta frazo es anke exemplo di verbo reflektiva Hispana sen signifiko di intenco >>> Okorse* (of course) vu ne trovis to en la KGD. Me opinionas ke vu devabus ne mem serchar, unesme. De ube ca bizara konekto inter formo reflektiva e intenco? De me certe ne: mea parentezi ne esis defini, ma nur explikivi di p.a.r.t.i.k.u.l.a.r.a frazo kun p.a.r.t.i.k.u.l.a.r.a verbo. Omna-kaze vua exemplo pri urbo inundata es poke satisfacanta, pro ke urbo es ento ne vivanta. Exemplo plu pertinenta* di sen-intenca reflektivo povus esar: "tranchante la karoti, el vundis su". La punto pri la reflektivi ne es intenco/acidento, ma transiteveso/netransitiveso. Altra-dice oportas ne konfundar la reflektivi transitiva kun la reflektivi netransitiva. �� Reflektivi TRANSITIVA, anke dicita "transitivi pronomala", formacesas en Ido (kai* en lingui naturala), mem da singla parolanto, per adjuntar pronoma objekto a verbi transitiva: el lavas su, il laudas su, il studias su, il su ocidis, el su dronis... En ta frazi pronomo "su" es extera objekto dil verbo, remplasebla da irga nomo sen perdo di gramatikaleso: el lavas la vesto, il laudas la verko, il studias matematiko, il ocidis la spozino, el dronis la kato.... Reflektivi analoga ne povas esar formacata per verbi netransitiva: "lu naskis su, lu kuras su, lu mortos su..." es frazi ne-gramatikala. �� Reflektivi NETRANSITIVA, anke dicita "netransitivi pronomala", trovesas tal quala en la vortari dil lingui naturala (ma ne en la vortari Idala), vice od apud sam-radika verbi netransitiva normala, foye anke apud sam-radika verbi transitiva: H arrepentirse...F se repentir... I pentirsi...[repentar] En tala verbi netransitiva pronomala dil lingui naturala, pronomo es parto esencala e formala dil verbo, ne extera objekto okazionala. Ol ne povas eliminesar nek remplasesar: ecepte eroro, la frazi "yo arrepiento...je repente...io pento" es ne-gramatikala en la rispektiva lingui, same kam "yo arrepiento mis pecados...je repente mes p�ch�s...io pento i miei peccati". La netransitivi pronomala tre diferas de la transitivi pronomala: - en "ocidar SU", pronomo "su" es objekto dil verbo transitiva, signifikante ke on facas a su ipsa l'ago expresata dal verbo; - en "arrepentirSE...SE repentir...pentirSI", pronomo "se/si" ne es objekto dil verbo, ma nura apendico gramatikala dil verbo, existanta en certena lingui pro kelka motivo linguistikala. En Ido, verbi netransitiva pronomala simple ne existas. ---------- De lo supera decensas, me kredas, la respondo a E.A.R. Koncerne vua punti, se on riklasifikas "dronar" kom verbo transitiva e netransitiva, on abutas SEGUN ME a lo sequanta: a) pri timata ambigueso inter 2 e 5: yes, povas existar ambigueso, quale pri omna verbi ergativa, ma ol es nur teoriala, ja KGD-diskutita, e ja KGD-judikita kom praktike sen-importa; b) pri timata ambigueso inter 4 e 5: no, ne povas existar ambigueso, pro ke -- "dronar su" povas esar nur "reflektivo transitiva", expresanta ago facata da su a su; ol povas nur signifikar "mortigar su per asfixio en l'aquo", same kam "dronar la spozino" signifikas "mortigar la spozino per asfixio en l'aquo"; -- "dronar su" ne povas esar "reflektivo netransitiva" pro ke reflektivi netransitiva ne existas en Ido; pro to ol g.r.a.m.a.t.i.k.e ne povas signifikar "mortar per asfixio en l'aquo". La problemo koncernas nur la lingui naturala, en qui fakte onu povas ne savar ka la pronomo akompananta exemple la verbo italiana "affogare" ("la sua sposa si � affogata"), es okazionala pronoma-objekto dil verbo transitiva "affogare" (Ide su dronar) od esencala pronoma-kompozanto dil verbo netransitiva/reflektiva "affogarsi" (Ide +dronar). ---------- P.S. Me trovas la kritiki da Eduardo A. Rodi kelke stranja. Se me memoras juste, kande B. Takata unesma parolis pri verbi ergativa, vu demandis listo di verbi ergativa, kom tre utila. Nun kande ul listo es sendita, vu +amasas kritiki, ne a la listo, ma a la verbo ergativa ipsa. Pro quo tala kritikemeso, quaze po omna kusto? ---------- P.P.S. Me lektas last-instante la mesajo da R. Carnaghan. Vua alternativo "dronar nur netransitiva" semblas, pardonez me, kelke grosiera; ol obligas uzar verbo kompozita dron-igar en 4 kazi sur 5. Pluse ol preventas praktike uzo di frazi quala 6- Il dronigis sua spozino da ocidisto. Kun vua konsideri pri alternativo "dronar nur transitiva" me granda-parte konkordas. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1111 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64597 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2004 06:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2004 06:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2004 06:35:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.168] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2004 06:35:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 06:35:39 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c3d7a1$339f72e0$a02148d9@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4305 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Verbi reflektiva X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sro Carlo NARDINI, En vua letro ye cirkume la 24ma di decembro, vu explikis la koncepto di verbi *ergativa kom verbi qui povas esar transitiva o netransitiva, ma qui esante netransitiva havas kom subjekto to quo esus la objekto dil erbo transitiva. Me konfesas ke kande me lektis pri to de Sro. TAKATA, me komprenis altra kozo diferanta (maxim probable, meakulpe). Me komprenis ke il aludis verbi quala "lektar" qui darfas havar o tacar la objekto. E ya di to me pregis listo. Kande me korekte komprenis ek quo vere konsistas la verbi *ergativa, me pensis e skribis ke "Forsan ta mikra ambigueso povus esar danjeroze konfundigiva por multi", precipue kande existas altra verbi (quala lektar) qui anke darfas esar surfacale transitiva o netransitiva, ma sen ke la objekto dil unesma divenez la subjekto dil duesma. Ya l'ergativeso existas en la Angla (He drowned - He drowned his wife), e posiblege anke en altra lingui. Ma me deskovras ke mea studenti Hispane-parolanta di la Angla ofte ne sucesas facile komprenar ta traito, pro la influo di lia linguo matrala, la Hispana. Pro to, me timis ke la verbi ergativa povus esar desfacilajo por ula homi. Do vu skribis: "Segun me, vua problemo es nur teoriala. Es desfacila, se ne tote neposibla, imaginar frazo kun verbo transitiva sen objekto, quala "lu dronis", exter kuntexto explikanta. Mea plulongigo dil frazo 2 debesis precize a to: obtenar frazo sencoza." Yes. Anke a me semblis tre desfacila imaginar verbo transitiva (ergativa) sen objekto dicita. Fakte me skribabis pri du grupi di verbi mixita. Ti quala "dronar" e ti quala "lektar". La verbi quala "dronar" neprobable esas transitiva kun objekto tacita. La verbi quala "lektar" uzesas tale plu ofte. Ma pro ke li ne esas ergativa, ne existas kazo en qua ca verbi es ne nur surfacale ma autentike netransitiva. Ton omno me ya komprenas. Me nur questionis altavoce ka ne esas posibla ke ta uzado esez konfundigiva. Me ne asertis ke ol ya es tala. Me apene questionis pri to, pro ke me ne savas lo. Me ofte ne sucesas forirar de mea realeso e limitizuri di la poka lingui quin me konocas. Nun vu explikas a me ke mea timo es nur teoriala, ma faktale neposibla, e vu anke explikas a me quale funcionas la verbi reflektiva en Ido, e me aceptas senobjecione e dankas vua expliko, di to quon me tote ne konocis antee. Vu anke skribis: "Nu, por eliminar ca dualeso preske nur teoriala, vu sugestas panikifanta chanji gramatikala, lexikala, mentala, quala "konsiderar la ergativa verbi kom nur transitiva, o kom nur netransitiva, o introduktar aparta formo verbala o altro". To equivalas, pardonez me, marteleg-aplastar la moskiti an la parieto; pov esar to eliminos la moskiti; certe to destruktas la parieti." Me invitas vu lektar mea mesaji en Idoitaliano che Yahoo, por ke vu videz (se vu ne pavoras unesme pro mea Italiana) quante me opozesas a nenecesa chanji linguala. Quale me skribis ibe, me esas linguale konservema. E me konsideras ke omna chanjo devus esar nekontesteble justifikata e neevitebla por esar aceptata. Tamen voluntez komprenar ke me ne savis to quon vu skribas en vua lasta mesajo. E me timis (nun me savas ke neutile) ke la koncepto povus esar konfundigiva. Pro to me explikis mea vidpunto e me propozis quale solvar la problemo quan me (e nur me) vidis. Ma me nultempe esperas ke mea propozaji esez prenata kom la solvuro nediskutebla. Kaze ke ula problemo quan me vidas fakte existus, me nur esperas ke mea propozaji esez komenco di solvuro. Ne solvuro ipsa. Sro. NARDINI, semblas a me (forsan itere me eroras) ke vu ne bonvenis mea recenta letri, e ke li kelke insultis vu. To nule esabas mea intenco. Me nur insultas ti qui insultas. Do pro quo me insultus vu? Me apene pozas questioni a la savozi, pro ke me deziras plubonigar mea kompreno di Ido. Forsan Linguolisto ne esas la maxim apta loko por tala questioni, pro ke oportas ja savar la respondo por skribar hike. Forsan, me devus vartar til lektir vua esayo en Progreso por durar (od evitar) la diskuto. Ma me pensis ke oportas ke me ne ignorez vua respondo a mea unesma letro. O forsan, me ne klare explikis ke omno quon me skribis esabas questioni e propozaji, ne aserturi. Me vere esperas ke to omna ne jenabas vu. Sincere, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1112 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 49620 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2004 14:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2004 14:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr4.sis.it) (217.72.32.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2004 14:55:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 19659 invoked by uid 108); 11 Jan 2004 15:52:17 +0100 Received: from narcar@sis.it by fr4 by uid 102 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc4 (clamuko: 0.60. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.827658 secs); 11 Jan 2004 16:52:17 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: narcar@sis.it via fr4 X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20rc4 (Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 0.827658 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO nardinic) (217.72.33.163) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2004 15:52:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3d857$2a33d460$a32148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:25:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.27 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Gespozi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Por freshigar la mento fatigita da verbi transitiva, netransitiva, ergativa, reflektiva transitiva, reflektiva netransitiva, mixita...me raportos kroniko di fakto fantaziala, eventinta quaze un yarcento ante nun, ye l'auroro di Ido. Yen la kroniko. En yaro ne-precizigita cirkum 1910, grupo di viri ganis, ye enigmato-konkurso, vakanc-sejorno kun lia spozini en l'insulo Nexistas. Dum-sejorne ul-posdimeze la rejo dil insulo kunvokis la vakancanta gespozi sur altajo dil insulo, ube apertesis pavoriganta abismo. La rejo parolis tale. - Ica loko es magioza. Hike sur la fronto dil spozuli, di qui la spozini es nefidela, kreskas reala mikra korni. La korni es tala ke la viri vidas la korni dil altri, ma ne perceptas la sui. L'homi regardis la fronto l'unu dil altru, e sur plura labii aparis rideti. La rejo pozigis singla spozino an la bordo dil abismo, turnigita vers ol, e singla spozulo dop lua spozino. La rejo duris parolar tale. - Adminime un ek hika spozini es nefidela. Irga trahizita spozulo de vi es venj-avida. Segun nia lego, spozuli trahizita havas hike la yuro su venjar, jetante aden l'abismo la spozino nefidela. Irga spozulo de vi konoceskante esar trahizita darfos infre-jetar sua spozino, ye la posa tambur-rotolo. Ma atencez: se ulu infre-jetos sua spozino fidela, ilu ipsa esos infre-jetata. La rejo +kap-signis, e la tamburi rotolis. Nulo eventis. Itere la rejo +kap-signis, e la tamburi rotolis. Nulo eventis. Triesma-foye la tamburi rotolis, ye impero dil rejo. Ca-foye hororigiva mulierala kriegi resonis en l'aero. Pose esis silenco; e diversa mulieri ne plus esis ibe. Hike finas la kroniko. Quanta spozini esis jetata ad-infre? La kroniko ne revelas lo. Tamen me kredas ke ta quanton onu povas per logiko inferar. [On ne pensez ke Linguolisto es ne apta por expozar problemi logikala e matematikala. Moderna formaligita linguistiko divenabas sempre plu proxima a logiko e matematiko. Yen exemplo maxim simpla di linguistika "formuli". F -> SN + SV [= nukleo-frazo F riskribesas per sintagmo nomala SN plus sintagmo verbala SV] SN -> D + N [= sintagmo nomala SN riskribesas per determinanto D plus nomo N] SV -> V + SN [= sintagmo verbala SV riskribesas per verbo V plus sintagmo nomala SN] Remplasante la simboli D N V per reala vorti on obtenas frazi gramatikala: "la matro kisas sua infanto"..."la patro lektas la jurnalo"...] Ni rivenez a nia kroniko. Per logiko on inferas ke tri spozini esis jetata ad-infre. Rezonado iras tale. On suposez ke ib' esas sep spozuli (reala nombro ne importas) A B C D E F G, di qui adminime un es kornizita. ## Unesma hipotezo ## Nur un spozulo es kornizita, dicez A. On indikez la kornizita spozulo per A' e omna spozuli per A' B C D E F G. A' vidas l'altra sis spozuli sen-korna, e pro ke adminime un spozulo es kornizita, A' komprenas esar kornizita. Ye unesma tambur-rotolo A' infre-jetas sua spozino. Do, se nur "un" spozulo es kornizita, lu infre-jetas sua spozino ye "unesma" tambur-rotolo. ## Duesma hipotezo ## Du spozuli es kornizita, dicez A e D. On indikez la kornizita spozuli per A' D' e omna spozuli per A' B C D' E F G. A' vidas D' kornizita, e l'altra kin spozuli sen-korna. Se A' kredas esar sen-korna, il expektas ke D' infre-jetas sua spozino ye unesma tambur-rotolo, segun la supera rezonado. Pro ke D' ne agas lo, A' komprenas esar kornizita, ed ye la posa, duesma tambur-rotolo lu infre-jetas sua spozino. Same rezonas e agas D'. Do, se "du" spozuli es kornizita, li infre-jetas sua spozini ye "duesma" tambur-rotolo. ## Triesma hipotezo ## Tri spozuli es kornizita, dicez A D G. On indikez la kornizita spozuli per A' D' G' e omna spozuli per A' B C D' E F G'. A' vidas D' e G' kornizita, e l'altra quar spozuli sen-korna. Se A' kredas esar sen-korna, il expektas ke D' e G' infre-jetas sua spozini ye duesma tambur-rotolo, segun la supera rezonado. Pro ke D' e G' ne agas lo, A' komprenas esar kornizita, ed ye la posa, triesma tambur-rotolo lu infre-jetas sua spozino. Same rezonas e agas D' e G'. Do, se "tri" spozuli es kornizita, omna li infre-jetas sua spozini ye "triesma" tambur-rotolo. Regulo generala: quanta es la spozini nefidela, tanta es la spozini infre-jetata ye tantesma tambur-rotolo. Obvie* omna to presupozas ke la spozuli es absolute logikoza. ---------- Noti. Pri metafora "korni" v. mea mesajo a Linguolisto N. 564, 2 Junio 2001. Sintagm.o*. Unajo sintaxala, konsistanta ek un, du o plua elementi. A syntagm(a). F syntagme. G Syntagma. H sintagma. I sintagma. R sintagma. Determinanto. Elemento gramatikala +quu determinas la nomo: artiklo, posesivo (posedalo), demonstrativo, relativo e.c.... ---------- P.S. - Eduardo A. Rodi skribis, pri recenta diskuti che Linguolisto: <<< ... forsan vu ne bonvenis mea recenta letri...e li kelke insultis vu... me vere esperas ke to omna ne jenabas vu... >>> Nula ne-bonveno. Nula insulto. Nula jeno. Nula problemo, ecepte...me esis kelke deceptata kande, pos preparir mea listo di verbi ergativa (obvie* me ne havis ol ja pronta), e sendir ol, anke seque vua nedireta demando, vice expektita danki e aprecii me recevis de vu nur kritiki...Ma vu explikabas omno. Koncerne ula expresuri en mea mesajo "Verbi reflektiva", oli esis humuroza karikataji, quala exajerata e mi-inventata "panikifanta" e fantazioza "marteleg-aplastar la moskiti". Amikale. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1113 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75920 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2004 06:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2004 06:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2004 06:19:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2004 06:19:39 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:19:38 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c3d857$2a33d460$a32148d9@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1178 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.93 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Gespozi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Sro. Carlo Nardini, vu skribis: > Eduardo A. Rodi skribis, pri recenta diskuti che Linguolisto: > > <<< ... forsan vu ne bonvenis mea recenta letri...e li kelke insultis vu... > me vere esperas ke to omna ne jenabas vu... >>> > > Nula ne-bonveno. Nula insulto. Nula jeno. > Nula problemo, ecepte...me esis kelke deceptata kande, pos preparir mea > listo di verbi ergativa (obvie* me ne havis ol ja pronta), e sendir ol, anke > seque vua nedireta demando, vice expektita danki e aprecii me recevis de vu > nur kritiki...Ma vu explikabas omno. Nun ke omno es klarigita, me sincere dankas vua kontributo. > Koncerne ula expresuri en mea mesajo "Verbi reflektiva", oli esis humuroza > karikataji, quala exajerata e mi-inventata "panikifanta" e fantazioza > "marteleg-aplastar la moskiti". > Amikale. Yes, tin me ya komprenis kom exajeri humurala, e ridetis pro li. Me nultempe povus imaginar vu ye vere tremanta pro paniko pro mea propozaji. :-) Parenteze, me konkordas kun vu ke la rezonaji matematikala tote relatas la rezonaji linguala, quankam me konfesas ke me nur kelkafoye sucesas solvar problemi quala ta quan vu propozabas. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1114 Return-Path: X-Sender: zaq@sympatico.ca X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86073 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2004 00:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2004 00:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2004 00:50:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.135] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2004 00:50:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 00:50:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c3d857$2a33d460$a32148d9@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 762 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "IdoWiki exportacaji" Subject: Re: Gespozi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=158192109 X-Yahoo-Profile: idowikiexportacaji X-eGroups-Rocket-Track: -80 ; IPCR=g-w0,n0,g100 Kara sioro Nardini, plusafoye vu spensigis plura hori a me per vua trans-skribo. Til nun me tradukis l'enigmato al Franca por mea amiki qui ne ja solvis la problemo. Anke a mea familio (kontenanta tri membri) me kontis la kroniko hiere matine. Li parolis pri ol dum la tota repasto, e pose dum la tota supeo ed anke la hodiala supeo ante ke mea matro e fratino respondis a me kun certeso (mea patro ne esis certa) : 3! :) Evidente li joyis la enigmato e questionis pri lua origino e me anke joyis askoltar li tante diskutar e miskomprenar. Desfortunozege, me ipsa kredis ke esis joko e ne-mediate lektis la impresanta respondo sen questionar me. Me prizabus anke solvar ol kun mea familio e promisas ne plus ignorar vua inteligenta defii. Dankanta saluti a vu! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1115 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35819 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2004 00:05:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2004 00:05:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO thomas.numericable.net) (80.236.0.149) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2004 00:05:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 9740 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2004 00:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by thomas.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Jan 2004 00:05:38 -0000 Message-ID: <002b01c3dc8d$fd4d31e0$886bdc51@landloic> To: Cc: "linguolisto" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 01:08:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.149 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: nova Idista landnomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Sequante vua lasta respondo pri mea mesajo "landnomi" qua kon= tenis listo di franca landnomi sen idista nomi, vu skribis: > Vu ne trovis = tala vorti pro ke, ofte ma ne sempre - me ne kontrolis singla nomo en vua l= isto - li ne existas en Ido. Quale me ja explikis, me unesme facis listo di= nomi oficala. > Nun me laboras pri nomi mankanta ed ofros listi en la foru= mo "Linguo", kun demando por tradukuri quin me ne sucesis trovar. Pose omnu= darfos komentar, e pose la DK povos votar pri posibla nova vorti. Depos m= e trovis la ecelanta sequanta *sito http://www.foreignword.com qua donas la= landnomi en 16 diferanta lingui. Kun la helpo di ca *sito me propozas trad= uko en Ido por ca listo di landnomi: 1) Afrika: Burkina Faso [G,A,F,I,H]: = Burkina Faso R=E9publique centraficaine, Centrafrique[F], Zentralafrikanisc= he Republik[G], Central African Republic[A], Repubblica Centrafricana[I], R= ep=FAblica Centroafricana[H] : Centrafrikana Republiko Canaries[F] : Kanar= i Djibouti[A,F,I],Dschibuti[G], Yibuti[H]: Djibouti Ghana[G,A,F,I,H] : Ghan= a Guin=E9e Bissau,Guin=E9e-Bissao [F], Guinea-Bissau[G,A,I,H] : Guinea-Bisa= u Guin=E9e =C9quatoriale[F],=C4quatorialguinea[G],Equatorial Guinea[A], Gui= nea Equatoriale[I],Guinea Ecuatorial[H] : Equadoralguine.a Kenya [A,F,I],Ke= nia[G,H] : Keni.a Lesotho[G,A,F], Lesoto[I,H] : Lesoto Mayotte [G,A,F,I,H] = : Mayote Niger [G,A,F,I,H] : Niger Seychelles[A,F,H],Seychellen[G], Seice= lle[I] :Seycheli Swaziland[A,F,I],Swasiland[G],Suazilandia[H] :Swazilando T= chad[F],Tschad[G],Chad[A,H],Ciad[I] : Chad 2) Azia: Arabie Saoudite[F],Sau= di-Arabien[G], Saudi Arabia[A], Arabia Saudita[I], Arabia Saud=ED[H] : Arab= ia Saud=ED Bahre=EFn[F], Bahrain[G,A], Bahrein[I], Bahr=E1in[H] : Bahrain o= Bahrein Bouthan[F], Bhutan[G,A,I], But=E1n[H] : Butan Georgie[F], Georgie= n[G], Georgia[A,I,H] : Georgi.a Hong Kong[F,A,I,H], Hongkong[G] : Hongkong = Isra=EBl[F], Israel[G,A,H], Israele[I] :Izrael Kazakhstan[F,A], Kasachstan[= G], Kazakistan[I], Kazajist=E1n[H] : Kazakstan Kirghizistan[F,I], Kirghizst= an[F], Kirgisistan[G], Kyrgyzstan[A], Kirguizist=E1n[H] : Kirgistan Macao[F= ,I,H], Macau[G,A] : Makao Ta=EFwan[F], Taiwan[G,A,I], Taiw=E1n [H] : Taiwan= 3) Europa: Bi=E9lorussie [F], Belarus[G,A,F], Bielorussia[I], Bielorrusi= a[H] : Belarusi.a F=E9ro=E9[F], F=E4r=F6er[G], Faeroe[A], Faer=F8erne[I], F= eroe[H] : Feroe Gibraltar[G,A,F,H], Gibilterra[I] : Gibraltar Jersey [F,A] = : Jersey Liechtenstein [G,A,F,I,H] : Liechtenstein Man[A,F] : Man Royaume U= ni [F], Vereinigtes K=F6nigreich[G], United Kingdom[A], Regno Unito[I], Rei= no Unido[H] : Rejio Unionata Vatican[F] : Vatikan 4) Oceania: Cook[G,A,F,I= ,H] : Kuk Guam[G,A,F,I,H] : Guam Norfolk[G,A,F,I,H] : Norfolk Palau[F] : Pa= lau Papouasie Nouvelle Guin=E9e[F], Papua-Neuguinea[G], Papua New Guinea[A]= , Papua Nuova Guinea[I], Pap=FAa-Nueva Guinea[H] : Papua-Novguinea Salomon = [F], Salomonen[G], Solomon[A], Salomone[I], Salom=F3n[H] : Salomon o Solomo= n Tonga[G,A,F,I,H] : Tonga Vanuatu[G,A,F,I,H] : Vanuatu 5) Amerika: Aruba[= G,A,F,I,H] : Aruba Montserrat[G,A,F,I,H] : Montsera Salvador[G,A,F,I,H] : S= alvador Iles Vierges am=E9ricaines[F], Amerikanische Jungferninseln[G], US = Virgin Islands[A], Isole Vergini americane[I], Islas V=EDrgenes Americanas[= H] : Amerikana Virginsuli Iles Vierges britanniques[F], Britische Jungfern= inseln[A], British Virgin Islands[A], Isole Vergini britanniche[I], Islas V= =EDrgenes Brit=E1nicas[H] : Britaniana Virginsuli Me jus kreis nova pagi= ni pri landnomi en mea *sito www.ido-france.org quan me esperas kompletar b= alde kun ca listo kande ol esos oficialigata da ULI. Esperante povabir help= ar vu, me salutas vu kordiale. Loik [Non-text portions of this message = have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1116 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81331 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2004 21:43:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2004 21:43:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ag.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.13) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2004 21:43:29 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ag.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0NLhTC9028340 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:43:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:41:55 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401231642_MC3-1-6901-EBB4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.13 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] nova Idista landnomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Loik, Danko pro vua helpo e propozi. Me ja havis multa landi en mea l= isto, ma mankis diversa mikra landi en vua listo. Me inkluzas anke ula land= i historiala, o nuna ma qui ne esas stati. Me trovis bona pagino por Germa= na nomi (www.ifag.de/kartographie/Stagn/Staatennamen.htm), ed utile ol dona= s ne nur la landnomo ma anke la adjektivo e la vorto por habitanto. Tamen o= l ne inkluzas landi historiala, landi dependanta, dezerti, mari e.c., ed ol= esas nur por la Germana. Me adjuntas hike mea komenti personala pri vua d= iversa propozi. Parenteze, vu sendis la sama mesajo a ca forumo ed al foru= mo uli-ido, ma ta al altra forumo esis plu longa ye disko nam ol kontenas d= uesma parto quan me ne povas facile lektar e quan (quale ne rare por altra = mesaji de vu e de nur kelka altra partoprenanti) me mustas omnafoye efacar = per aparta ago. Ka vu povas explikar to? (Me suspektas ke ta duesma parto e= sas la sama mesajo ye altra formo.) Plu bone, ka vu povas evitar to? Danko!= Robert C. _________ >Depos [Depose] me trovis la ecelanta sequanta *sito= http://www.foreignword.com qua donas la landnomi en 16 diferanta lingui. K= un la helpo di ca *sito me propozas traduko en Ido por ca listo di landnomi= : 1) Afrika: Burkina Faso [G,A,F,I,H]: Burkina Faso > o Burkina-Fas.o R= =E9publique centraficaine, Centrafrique[F], Zentralafrikanische Republik[G= ], Central African Republic[A], Repubblica Centrafricana[I], Rep=FAblica = Centroafricana[H] : Centrafrikana Republiko > yes Canaries[F] : Kanari > Ka= nari.i esas ja oficala Djibouti[A,F,I],Dschibuti[G], Yibuti[H]: Djibouti > = prefere Djibuti (A e F "ou" =3D "u") Ghana[G,A,F,I,H] : Ghana > yes Guin=E9= e Bissau,Guin=E9e-Bissao [F], Guinea-Bissau[G,A,I,H] : Guinea-Bisau > yes= Guin=E9e =C9quatoriale[F],=C4quatorialguinea[G],Equatorial Guinea[A], Guin= ea Equatoriale[I],Guinea Ecuatorial[H] : Equadoralguine.a > no: Guine.a = Equator.al.a (ne relatas Equador ma equatoro!) Kenya [A,F,I],Kenia[G,H] : = Keni.a > Keni.a o Keny.a? Lesotho[G,A,F], Lesoto[I,H] : Lesoto > yes Mayott= e [G,A,F,I,H] : Mayote > yes, danko (me adjuntas ol a mea listo) Niger [G,A= ,F,I,H] : Niger > senco? Seychelles[A,F,H],Seychellen[G], Seicelle[I] :Seyc= heli > o Seicheli? Swaziland[A,F,I],Swasiland[G],Suazilandia[H] :Swazilando= > yes (ma mea vortolibro Hispana donas nur "Swaziliandia" Tchad[F],Tscha= d[G],Chad[A,H],Ciad[I] : Chad > *Chad [lago, qua nomesis unesme, e di qua= la nomo signifikas "lago"] 2) Azia: Arabie Saoudite[F],Saudi-Arabien[G],= Saudi Arabia[A], Arabia Saudita[I], Arabia Saud=ED[H] : Arabia Saud=ED >= *Saud-Arabia Bahre=EFn[F], Bahrain[G,A], Bahrein[I], Bahr=E1in[H] : Bahrai= n o Bahrein > yes, o Barain o Barein? Bouthan[F], Bhutan[G,A,I], But=E1n[= H] : Butan > yes Georgie[F], Georgien[G], Georgia[A,I,H] : Georgi.a > "Gruz= ia" esas ja oficala por ne lando ne-Amerikana; F: (la) Grusie, G=E9orgie,= G: Georgien, Gruzinien Hong Kong[F,A,I,H], Hongkong[G] : Hongkong > probab= le yes Isra=EBl[F], Israel[G,A,H], Israele[I] :Izrael > no; *Israel (Izrael= ja esas nomo di persono) Kazakhstan[F,A], Kasachstan[G], Kazakistan[I], = Kazajist=E1n[H] : Kazakstan Kirghizistan[F,I], Kirghizstan[F], Kirgisistan[= G], Kyrgyzstan[A], Kirguizist=E1n[H] : Kirgistan > o *Kirgizistan (de ling= ui GHI e parte AF) Macao[F,I,H], Macau[G,A] : Makao > o *Makau (tale *Makau= ano vice *Makaano o *Makaoano) Ta=EFwan[F], Taiwan[G,A,I], Taiw=E1n [H] := Taiwan > takaze pro quo ne *Xiang-gang vice *Hongkong? Pro quo la nomo E= uropana por un (Hongkong) ma ne por la altra (Formoza)? 3) Europa: Bi= =E9lorussie [F], Belarus[G,A,F], Bielorussia[I], Bielorrusia[H] : Belarus= i.a > A: Byelorussia, F: Bi=E9lorussie; do prefere *Bielorusia (Blanka Ru= sia, ma ne *Belarusia, mem se ol esas ya bela!) F=E9ro=E9[F], F=E4r=F6er[G]= , Faeroe[A], Faer=F8erne[I], Feroe[H] : Feroe > o *Faero (ne Faer.o); tal= e *Faeroano). Danko - me adjuntas ol. Gibraltar[G,A,F,H], Gibilterra[I] : G= ibraltar - yes, danko Jersey [F,A] : Jersey > danko. Anke Guernsey? Liechte= nstein [G,A,F,I,H] : Liechtenstein > pronunco? Forsan *Likstentein? Man[A,F= ] : Man > danko. Tamen, ka prefere *Man, Manana, Manano; o *Manxa, Manxo,= Manx-insulo? (Olim me audis parolado dil Manxa linguo.) Royaume Uni [F], V= ereinigtes K=F6nigreich[G], United Kingdom[A], Regno Unito[I], Reino Unid= o[H] : Rejio Unionata > yes, od: Unionita Rejio Vatican[F] : Vatikan > o *V= atikano (kun acento ye la duesma "a" vice "i")? 4) Oceania: Cook[G,A,F,I,= H] : Kuk > danko; forsan *Kuk-insuli e *Kuk-stretajo Guam[G,A,F,I,H] : Guam= > danko, yes Norfolk[G,A,F,I,H] : Norfolk > danko; prefere *Norfolk-insulo= (Angle: Norfolk Island) nam esas adminime du altra Norfolk plu grand-pop= ula Palau[F] : Palau > yes, ma la nomo chanjis dufoye e to esas la duesma n= omo ek tri! Papouasie Nouvelle Guin=E9e[F], Papua-Neuguinea[G], Papua New G= uinea[A], Papua Nuova Guinea[I], Pap=FAa-Nueva Guinea[H] : Papua-Novguine= a > o *Papua-Nov-Guinea Salomon [F], Salomonen[G], Solomon[A], Salomone[I= ], Salom=F3n[H] : Salomon o Solomon > yes, o *Salomon-insuli? Tonga[G,A,F,= I,H] : Tonga > ja oficala Vanuatu[G,A,F,I,H] : Vanuatu > yes 5) Amerika: = Aruba[G,A,F,I,H] : Aruba > danko Montserrat[G,A,F,I,H] : Montsera > danko; = la insulo, ne la monto? Ka ne *Montserat? Salvador[G,A,F,I,H] : Salvador > = yes Iles Vierges am=E9ricaines[F], Amerikanische Jungferninseln[G], US Virg= in Islands[A], Isole Vergini americane[I], Islas V=EDrgenes Americanas[H] := Amerikana Virginsuli Iles Vierges britanniques[F], Britische Jungferninse= ln[A], British Virgin Islands[A], Isole Vergini britanniche[I], Islas V=EDr= genes Brit=E1nicas[H] : Britaniana Virginsuli > o Virgin-insuli Me jus k= reis nova pagini pri landnomi en mea *sito www.ido-france.org quan me esper= as kompletar balde kun ca listo kande ol esos oficialigata da ULI. Esperant= e povabir helpar vu, me salutas vu kordiale. Loik< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1117 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20368 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 00:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 00:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.8) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 00:25:24 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.11) id i0S0Oxli007858 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:24:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:44:41 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401271917_MC3-1-6A5E-4CD7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.8 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Franca tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Me bezonas Franca tradukuri por la sequanta posibla nomi geografiala. Danko= ! Robert C. __________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I= =3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri)= fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont.=3D(pri= ) monto o montaro *Arabi.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Arabian Sea F: ? mer d'Ar= abie, ? mer d'Oman G: ? H: mar de Arabia, mar Ar=E1bigo, mar de Om=E1n I= : ? Esp: (la) Araba Maro *Babiloni.a A: Babylonia F: ? G: Babylonien = H: Babilonia [baja Mesopotamia] I: ? Esp: Babilonio *Chuvash.a A: Chuva= sh [adj.] F: ? tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuv= ash.o A: Chuvash [person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp= : C^uvas^o *Chuvashi.a A: Chuvash Republic F: ? r=E9publique des Tchouva= ches G: ? H: Chuvashia I: ? Esp: C^uvas^io *Kalmuki.a A: Kalmykia F:= ? r=E9publique autonome des Kalmouks G: ? H: Kalmukia I: ? Esp: Kalmuk= io *Langobard.a A: Langobard, Langobardian, Lombard, Lombardic F: ? G: l= angobardisch H: lombardo [relativo a un pueblo germ=E1nico] I: longobardi= co *Langobard.o A: Lombard [ancient], Langobard F: ? Lombard [membre du = peuple germanique] G: Langobarde H: lombardo [de un pueblo germ=E1nico] = I: longobardo [persona] Esp: Longobardo *Persi.an.a Gulf.o [mar.] A: Pers= ian Gulf F: ? golfe Persique, ? golfe arabo-persique G: (der) Persische G= olf H: golfo P=E9rsico, golfo Ar=E1bigo I: ? Esp: Persa Golfo *Prus.a A= : Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: ? prusien [baltique], ? balte [prussi= en] G: ? preu=DFisch [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Prusa *Prus.o A: Prussian [= member of a Baltic people] F: ? Prusien [baltique], ? Balte [prussien] G:= ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Pruso *Rus.a Feder.ur.o A: Russian Fe= deration F: ? G: Russische F=F6deration, (F=F6deration) Russland H: Fede= raci=F3n Rusa I: ? *Samnit.a A: Samnite [adj.] F: ? samnite G: ? H: s= amnita I: sannitico [dei sanniti] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1118 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50179 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 00:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 00:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.136) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 00:17:10 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0S0GmiD007772 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:16:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:44:39 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401271916_MC3-1-6A5E-4CD3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.136 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Hispana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Me bezonas Hispana tradukuri por la sequanta posibla nova nomi geografiala.= Danko! Robert C. ___________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhis= pana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri: fl.= =3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont= .=3D(pri) monto o montaro *Chechen.a A: Chechen F: tch=E9tch=E8ne G: ? = H: ? I: ceceno Esp: C^ec^ena, Noh^c^o *Chechen.o A: Chechen [person] F= : Tch=E9tch=E8ne G: ? H: ? I: ceceno *Chuvash.a A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ?= tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o A: Chuva= sh [person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^o *Ha= sid.a A: Hasidic, Chasidic F: hassidique G: ?; [Pl.] Chassidim H: ? I:= hassidico Esp: H^asida *Kaspi.a [mar.] A: Caspian F: caspienne G: kas= pisches H: ? caspio I: caspico Esp: Kaspia *Namib A: Namib Desert F: (= d=E9sert du) Namib G: ? H: ? desierto de Namib, ? Namib I: ? Esp: Namib= o *Nilot.a A: Nilotic [of the language group or its native speakers] F: = nilotique [des Nilotiques] G: nilotisch H: ? nil=F3tico [de las lenguas e= tc.] I: ? *Nilot.o A: Nilotic [member of a Nilotic-speaking people] F: N= ilotique G: Nilote H: ? nil=F3tico [persona] I: nilota *Nors.a A: Nors= e [of the old Scandinavian language or people] F: nordique, norrois, scand= inave G: altnordisch H: ? n=F3rdico [de los i lenguas pa=EDses escandinavo= s] I: norreno Esp: {A. Old Norse} (la) Norena (lingvo) *Patan.a A: Patha= n; Pashto, Pushto, Pushtu F: pathan G: ?; [Patana linguo] das Paschtu H: = ? pathaan, pashto I: pathan Esp: Patana *Prus.a A: Prussian [Baltic], Ol= d Prussian F: ? prusien [baltique], ? balte [prussien] G: ? preu=DFisch [= ...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Prusa *Prus.o A: Prussian [member of a Baltic peop= le] F: ? Prusien [baltique], ? Balte [prussien] G: ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: ?= I: ? Esp: Pruso *Sorab.a A: Sorb, Wendish, Lusation [adj.] F: sorabe = G: sorbisch H: ? I: ? sorabo [di serbo di Lusazia] *Sorab.o A: Sorb, We= nd, Lusatian [person] F: Sorabe G: Sorbe H: ? I: sorabo [serbo di Lusazi= a] *Yakut.a A: Yakut [adj.] F: iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto I: ? Esp: Jak= uta *Yakut.o A: Yakut [person] F: Iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto I: ? Esp: = Jakuto From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1119 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90003 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 00:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 00:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ad.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 00:44:09 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ad.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0S0hYRv009440 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:43:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:44:37 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401271937_MC3-1-6A5E-4CCE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.134 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Germana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Me bezonas Germana tradukuri por la sequanta posibla nomi geografiala. Dank= o! Robert C. __________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; = I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri= ) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont.=3D(pr= i) monto o montaro *Abkazi.a A: Abkhazia F: Abkhazie G: ? H: Abjasia I= : Abkhasia *Adjari.a A: Adzharia F: Adjarie G: ? H: Adzharia I: ? *A= kab.a A: Aqaba, Akaba F: Akaba, Aqaba G: ? H: Aqaba, Akaba I: ? *Akon= kagu.a [mont.] A: Aconcagua F: Aconcagua G: ? H: Aconcaqua I: ? Esp: A= konkagvo *Arabi.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Arabian Sea F: ? mer d'Arabie, ? me= r d'Oman G: ? H: mar de Arabia, mar Ar=E1bigo, mar de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: = (la) Araba Maro *Birobijan A: Birobijan, Birobidzhan F: Birobidjan G: ?= H: Birobidzhan I: ? *Chechen.a A: Chechen F: tch=E9tch=E8ne G: ? H: = ? I: ceceno Esp: C^ec^ena, Noh^c^o *Chechen.o A: Chechen [person] F: Tc= h=E9tch=E8ne G: ? H: ? I: ceceno *Chuvash.a A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ? tch= ouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o A: Chuvash [= person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^o *Chuvas= hi.a A: Chuvash Republic F: ? r=E9publique des Tchouvaches G: ? H: Chuv= ashia I: ? Esp: C^uvas^io *Dagestan.o A: Dagestan, Daghestan F: Daghes= tan, Daguestan G: ? H: Daguest=E1n I: ? Esp: Dagestano *Gibraltar-stret= .aj.o [mar.] A: Strait of Gibraltar F: d=E9troit de Gibraltar G: ? H: es= trecho de Gibraltar I: ? Esp: G^ibraltara Markolo *Gulf.o di Oman [mar.] = A: Gulf of Oman F: golfe d'Oman G: ? H: golfo de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: Oman= a Golfo *Hasid.a A: Hasidic, Chasidic F: hassidique G: ?; [Pl.] Chassid= im H: ? I: hassidico Esp: H^asida *Hispaniol.a A: Hispaniola F: l'=EE= le d'Ha=EFti, Hispaniola G: ? H: La Espa=F1ola I: Ispaniola Esp: Hispani= olo, Dominikinsulo *Hitit.a A: Hittite F: hittite G: ? H: hitita I: i= ttita Esp: Hitita *Irland.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Irish Sea F: (la) mer d'I= rlande G: ? H: mar de Irlanda I: ? *Jersey A: Jersey [island] F: Jers= ey [=EEle] G: ? H: Jersey [isla brit=E1nica] I: ? Esp: J^erzejo *Kalmuk= .a A: Kalmuck, Kalmyk [adj.] F: kalmouk G: ? H: calmuco I: calmucco [ag= g.] Esp: Kalmuka *Kalmuki.a A: Kalmykia F: ? r=E9publique autonome des = Kalmouks G: ? H: Kalmukia I: ? Esp: Kalmukio *Karibe.an.a Mar.o [mar.]= A: Caribbean Sea F: (la) mer des Antilles, (la) mer des Cara=EFbes G: ?= H: mar Caribe, mar de las Antillas I: ? Esp: (la) Kariba Maro *Katar.o= A: Cathar F: Cathar G: ? Kathare H: C=E1taro I: Cataro Esp: kataro [a= no de katarismo] *Kosov.o A: Kosovo F: Kosovo G: ? H: Kosovo I: ? Esp= : Kosovo *Krakov o Krakovi.a? A: Cracow F: Cracovie G: ? H: Cracovia I= : Cracovia Esp: Krakovo *Kuk-insul.i A: Cook Islands F: Cook (=EEles) = G: ? Cook ...? H: Cook (islas) I: ? Cook ...? Esp: Kuk-Insularo *Kuk-st= ret.aj.o [mar.] A: Cook Strait F: d=E9troit de Cook G: ? H: estrecho de = Cook I: ? *Kuril.i A: Kuril Islands, Kurile Islands F: Kouriles G: ? H= : Kuriles I: ? Esp: Kuriloj *Lusitan.a A: Lusitanian [of Lusitania] F:= lusitanien, lusitain [de la Lusitanie] G: ? H: lusitano, luso I: lusitan= o Esp: Luzitana, Luzida *Lusitan.o A: Lusitanian [of Lusitania] F: Lusi= tanien, Lusitain [de la Lusitanie] G: ? H: lusitano, luso I: lusitano Es= p: Luzitano, Luzido *Lusitani.a A: Lusitania F: Lusitanie G: ? H: Lusi= tania I: Lusitania Esp: Luzitanio [Romia provinco] *Mar.o di Chini.a [mar= .] A: China Sea F: (la) mer de China G: ? H: mar de China I: ? Esp: (l= a) C^ina Maro *Marmar.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Sea of Marmara, Sea of Marmora F:= (la) mer de Marmara G: ? H: mar de M=E1rmara I: ? Esp: Marmora Maro *M= askaren.i A: Mascarene Islands F: [=EEles] Mascareignes G: ? H: islas Ma= scare=F1as I: ? Esp: Maskarenoj *Micene A: Mycenae F: Myc=E8nes G: ? = H: Micenas I: Micene Esp: Miceno *Mongoli.a Intern.a A: Inner Mongolia = F: Mongolie-Int=E9rieure G: ? H: Mongolia Interior I: ? Esp: Interna Mon= golio, -ujo *Namib A: Namib Desert F: (d=E9sert du) Namib G: ? H: ? de= sierto de Namib, ? Namib I: ? Esp: Namibo *Nov-Zemli.a A: Novaya Zemlya= , Nova Zembla F: Nouvelle-Zemble G: ? H: Nueva Zembla I: ? Esp: Nova-Zem= lo *Ormuz A: Hormuz, Ormuz F: Ormuz G: ? H: Ormuz, Hormuz I: ? *Ormuz= -stret.aj.o [mar.] A: Strait of Hormuz F: d=E9troit d'Ormuz G: ? H: est= recho de Ormuz I: ? *Oseti.a A: Ossetia F: Oss=E9tie G: ? H: Osetia I= : Ossezia Esp: Osetio *Patan.a A: Pathan; Pashto, Pushto, Pushtu F: pat= han G: ?; [Patana linguo] das Paschtu H: ? pathaan, pashto I: pathan Esp:= Patana *Prus.a A: Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: ? prusien [baltiqu= e], ? balte [prussien] G: ? preu=DFisch [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Prusa *Pr= us.o A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people] F: ? Prusien [baltique], ? B= alte [prussien] G: ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Pruso *Samnit.a A:= Samnite [adj.] F: ? samnite G: ? H: samnita I: sannitico [dei sanniti] = *Samnit.o A: Samnite [person] F: Samnite G: ? H: Samnita I: sannita *= Sargas.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Sargasso Sea F: (la) mer des Sargasses G: ? H:= mar de los Sargazos I: Mar dei Sargassi Esp: Sargasmaro *Tajik.a A: Taj= ik, Tadjik, Tadzhik [adj.] F: tadjik G: ? H: tadzhik I: tagicco, tagico,= tagiko Esp: Tag^ika *Tajik.o A: Tajik, Tadjik, Tadzhik [person] F: Tad= jik G: ? H: tadzhik I: tagicco, tagico, tagiko Esp: Tag^iko *Tirenian.a= Mar.o [mar.] A: Tyrrhenian Sea F: (la) mer Tyrrh=E9nienne G: ? H: mar = Tirreno I: (mar) Tirreno Esp: Tirena Maro *Tobag.o o Tobago? A: Tobago = F: Tobago G: ? H: Tobago I: Tobago Esp: Tobago *Ugr.a A: Ugric F: oug= rien G: ? H: ugro I: ? *Ugrofin.a A: Finno-Ugric, Ugro-Finnish F: fin= no-ougrien G: ? ugrofinnisch H: ugrofin=E9s, finougro I: ugro-finnico, ug= rofinnico *Ural-Altaik.a A: Uralo-Altaic F: ouralo-alta=EFque G: ? H: u= raloaltaico I: uralo-altaico *Viktori.a [mar.] A: (Lake) Victoria F: Vi= ctoria [lac] G: ? H: lago Victoria I: ? Esp: Viktorio [lago] *Volt.a [f= l.] A: Volta [river] F: Volta [fleuve] G: ? H: Volta [r=EDo] I: ? Esp:= Voltao [rivero] *Yakut.a A: Yakut [adj.] F: iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto = I: ? Esp: Jakuta *Yakut.o A: Yakut [person] F: Iakoute G: ? H: ? yaku= to I: ? Esp: Jakuto *Yakuti.a A: Yakutia F: Iakoutie G: ? H: Saja, Ya= kutia I: ? Esp: Jakutio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1120 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92893 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 02:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 02:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (62.39.122.10) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 02:58:00 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200401280257.17b9; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:57:23 GMT Send-By: 69.70.116.17 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 02:57:23 GMT Message-id: <200401280257.17b9@th00.idoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 62.39.122.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Rep:[linguo] Franca tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kara Sro Carnaghan, Yen la tradukuri aden la Franca : *Arabi.an.a Mar.o [= mar.] F: mer d'Arabie, mer d'Oman *Babiloni.a F: Babylonie (ca nomo or= iginas de l'olda vorto Babiloniana "Bab-ilum", qua signifikas la Pordo di l= a Deo) *Chuvash.a F: tchouvache *Chuvash.o F: Tchouvache *Chuvash= i.a F: Tchouvachie *Kalmuki.a F: Kalmoukie *Langobard.a F: lombard= [relatif au peuple germanique] *Langobard.o F: Lombard [membre du peupl= e germanique] *Persi.an.a Gulf.o [mar.] F: golfe Persique *Prus.a F: pr= ussien [relatif =E0 la Prusse] *Prus.o F: Prussien [habitant de la Prusse= ] *Rus.a Feder.ur.o F: F=E9d=E9ration Russe *Samnit.a F: samnite A= mikale, Christophe GAUBERT ___________________________________________= __________________________ Un mot doux =E0 envoyer? Une sortie cin=E9 =E0 o= rganiser? Faites le en temps r=E9el avec MSN Messenger! C'est gratuit! ht= tp://ifrance.com/_reloc/m _________________________________________________= ____________________ Envie de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T=E9l=E9ch= arger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1=E8re messagerie in= stantan=E9e de France From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1121 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78077 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 05:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 05:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 05:14:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.119] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2004 05:13:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:13:19 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200401271916_MC3-1-6A5E-4CD3@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 873 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Hispana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Robert CARNAGHAN, vu skribis: > Me bezonas Hispana tradukuri por la s= equanta posibla nova nomi geografiala. > > *Chechen.a: checheno > *Cheche= n.o: checheno (sama vorto kam por l'adjektivo) > *Kaspi.a [mar.]: Caspio (= Maro Kaspia =3D Mar Caspio) > *Nors.a: n=F3rdico > *Namib: Desierto de Nami= bia (co es la tradukuro di A: Namib Desert) Pri Prus.a e Prus.o, me kredas= ke la tradukuro esus "prusiano", se to relatas la lando qua cesis existar= ye cirkume 100 yari ante nun A: Prussia (tamen la vorto "Baltic" igas me = pensar ke vu aludas altra kozo). La cetera vortin (*Chuvash.a, *Chuvash.o= , *Hasid.a, *Nilot.a, *Nilot.o, *Patan.a, *Sorab.a, *Sorab.o, *Yakut.a e *= Yakut.o), me lektas unesmafoye en mea vivo. Ka vu povus precizigar lia sig= nifiko, exemple per indikar a qua regiono li apartenas? Forsan tale me pov= us helpar vu pluse. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1122 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29452 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 11:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 11:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ag.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.140) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 11:14:21 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ag.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0SAmXvH016142 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 05:48:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 16:44:44 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200401280545_MC3-1-6A5E-4CDD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.140 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Italiana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Me bezonas Italiana tradukuri por la sequanta posibla nomi geografiala. Dan= ko! Robert C. __________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana;= I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pr= i) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont.=3D(p= ri) monto o montaro *Abudabi A: Abu Dhabi [country] F: Abu Dhabi [pays] = G: Abu Dhabi H: Abu Zabi, Abu Dabi I: ? Esp: Abudabo* *Adjari.a A: Adz= haria F: Adjarie G: ? H: Adzharia I: ? *Akab.a A: Aqaba, Akaba F: Ak= aba, Aqaba G: ? H: Aqaba, Akaba I: ? *Akonkagu.a [mont.] A: Aconcagua = F: Aconcagua G: ? H: Aconcaqua I: ? Esp: Akonkagvo *Alt.a-Volt.a A: U= pper Volta F: Haute-Volta G: Obervolta H: Alto Volta I: ? *Grand.a Anti= l.i A: Greater Antilles F: Grandes Antilles G: Gro=DFen Antillen H: Gran= des Antillas, Antillas Mayores I: ? Esp: Grandaj Antiloj *Mikr.a Antil.i = A: Lesser Antilles F: Petites Antilles G: Kleinen Antillen H: Peque=F1as= Antillas, Antillas Menores I: ? Esp: Malgrandaj Antiloj *Arabi.an.a Mar.= o [mar.] A: Arabian Sea F: ? mer d'Arabie, ? mer d'Oman G: ? H: mar de = Arabia, mar Ar=E1bigo, mar de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: (la) Araba Maro *Aral.o [= mar.] A: Aral Sea F: Aral [mer ou lac d'] G: Aralsee H: (mar de) Aral I= : ? Esp: Aralo *Babilon A: Babylon F: Babylone G: Babylon H: Babiloni= a [ciudad] I: ? Esp: Babilono *Babiloni.a A: Babylonia F: ? G: Babylo= nien H: Babilonia [baja Mesopotamia] I: ? Esp: Babilonio *Baikal.o [mar= .] A: Baikal [Lake] F: Ba=EFkal G: Baikalsee H: Baikal I: ? Esp: Bajka= lo *Bask.o.land.o A: Basque Country F: Pays basque G: Baskenland H: Pa= =EDs Vasco I: ? Esp: Vaskio, Eu`skio *Bering.a [mar.] A: Bering F: de = B=E9ring, de Behring G: Bering- H: de Bering, Behring I: ? Esp: Beringa = *Bering.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Bering Sea F: B=E9ring, Behring [mer de] G: B= eringmeer H: Bering, Behring [mar de] I: ? Esp: Beringa maro *Bering.a S= tret.aj.o [mar.] A: Bering Strait F: B=E9ring, Behring [d=E9troit de] G:= Beringstra=DFe H: Bering, Behring [estrecho de] I: ? Esp: Beringa marko= lo *Birobijan A: Birobijan, Birobidzhan F: Birobidjan G: ? H: Birobidzh= an I: ? *Bospor.o [mar.] A: Bosporus, Bosphorus F: Bosphore G: Bosporus= H: B=F3sforo I: ? Esp: Bosporo *Bukovin.a A: Bukovina, Bucovina F: B= ucovine G: Bukowina H: Bucovina, Bukovina I: ? *Chuvash.a A: Chuvash [a= dj.] F: ? tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o= A: Chuvash [person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^u= vas^o *Chuvashi.a A: Chuvash Republic F: ? r=E9publique des Tchouvaches = G: ? H: Chuvashia I: ? Esp: C^uvas^io *Dagestan.o A: Dagestan, Daghes= tan F: Daghestan, Daguestan G: ? H: Daguest=E1n I: ? Esp: Dagestano *D= ahome A: Dahomey F: Dahomey G: Dahome H: Dahomey I: ? *Eurazi.a A: Eu= rasia F: Eurasie G: Eurasien H: Eurasia I: ? Esp: Eu`razio *Faero A: = Faeroes, Faroes, Faeroe Islands F: F=E9ro=E9, Faeroe G: F=E4r=F6er H: Fer= oe, Faeroe, Faroe I: ? Faer=F2erne Esp: Insuloj Feroaj, Feroio *Frank.a = A: Frankish [of the ancient Franks] F: franc [d'un peuple germanique] G: = fr=E4nkisch H: franco [relativo a un pueblo germ=E1nico] I: ? franco [tri= b=F9 germaniche] Esp: Franka *Gael.o A: Gael, Goidel F: Ga=EBl G: G=E4l= in H: Ga=EBl I: ? Esp: Gaelo *Galapag.i A: Gal=E1pagos Islands F: (=EE= les) Gal=E1pagos G: Galapagosinseln H: Gal=E1pagos, (Archipi=E9lago de) Co= l=F3n I: ? Esp: Galapagoj *Gibraltar-stret.aj.o [mar.] A: Strait of Gibr= altar F: d=E9troit de Gibraltar G: ? H: estrecho de Gibraltar I: ? Esp: = G^ibraltara Markolo *Gobi A: Gobi F: Gobi G: Gobi H: Gobi I: ? Esp: = Gobio Gulf.o di Oman [mar.] A: Gulf of Oman F: golfe d'Oman G: ? H: golf= o de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: Omana Golfo *Ibiz.a A: Ibiza [island] F: Ibiza [= =EEle] G: Ibiza H: Ibiza, Eivissa [isla] I: ? *Ioni.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A= : Ionian Sea F: Ionienne (mar) G: Ionisches Meer H: mar J=F3nico I: ? *= Irland.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Irish Sea F: (la) mer d'Irlande G: ? H: mar= de Irlanda I: ? *Jersey A: Jersey [island] F: Jersey [=EEle] G: ? H: = Jersey [isla brit=E1nica] I: ? Esp: J^erzejo *Kaledoni.a A: Caledonia = F: Cal=E9donie G: Kaledonien H: Caledonia I: ? Caledonia Esp: Kaledonio = *Kalmuki.a A: Kalmykia F: ? r=E9publique autonome des Kalmouks G: ? H:= Kalmukia I: ? Esp: Kalmukio *Karibe.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Caribbean Sea= F: (la) mer des Antilles, (la) mer des Cara=EFbes G: ? H: mar Caribe, m= ar de las Antillas I: ? Esp: (la) Kariba Maro *Kirgiz.o A: Kirghiz, Kir= giz [person] F: Kirguiz G: Kirgise H: kirguiz I: ? *Kosov.o A: Kosovo = F: Kosovo G: ? H: Kosovo I: ? Esp: Kosovo *Kuk-insul.i A: Cook Island= s F: Cook (=EEles) G: ? Cook ...? H: Cook (islas) I: ? Cook ...? Esp: = Kuk-Insularo *Kuk-stret.aj.o [mar.] A: Cook Strait F: d=E9troit de Cook = G: ? H: estrecho de Cook I: ? *Kuril.i A: Kuril Islands, Kurile Islands= F: Kouriles G: ? H: Kuriles I: ? Esp: Kuriloj From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1123 Return-Path: X-Sender: hlnodovic@vtr.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3202 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 12:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 12:12:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.vtr.net) (200.83.1.24) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 12:12:46 -0000 Received: from hudson.vtr.net (200.83.1.22) by mx01.vtr.net (7.0.012) id 3F89F80A01BCCDF4 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:08:55 -0300 Received: from yhwh (200.83.93.6) by hudson.vtr.net (7.0.008) id 400CF9AD001DE2A6 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:08:55 -0300 Message-ID: <008901c3e597$80cc9760$6600a8c0@yhwh> To: References: <200401271916_MC3-1-6A5E-4CD3@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:08:55 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.83.1.24 From: "Saruman El Blanco" Subject: Re: [linguo] Hispana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161102152 X-Yahoo-Profile: ilustrado Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me sendas la sequant hispan tradukturi: *Chechen.a A: Chechen F: tch= =E9tch=E8ne G: ? H: CHECHENO I: ceceno Esp: C^ec^ena, Noh^c^o *Chec= hen.o A: Chechen [person] F: Tch=E9tch=E8ne G: ? H: CHECHENO (homulo) C= HECHENA (homino) I: ceceno *Chuvash.a A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ? tchouva= che G: ? H: CHUVASH=CD (ma LENGUA CHUVASHA O CHUVASHO) I: ? Esp: C^uva= s^a *Chuvash.o A: Chuvash [person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: CHUVASH= =CD I: ? Esp: C^uvas^o *Hasid.a A: Hasidic, Chasidic F: hassidique= G: ?; [Pl.] Chassidim H: HASID=CD (homo), HAS=CDDICO (adj) I: hassidic= o Esp: H^asida *Kaspi.a [mar.] A: Caspian F: caspienne G: kaspisches= H: ? MAR CASPIO I: caspico Esp: Kaspia *Namib A: Namib Desert F: = (d=E9sert du) Namib G: ? H: ? desierto de NamibIA, ? Namib I: ? Esp: = Namibo *Nilot.a A: Nilotic [of the language group or its native speak= ers] F: nilotique [des Nilotiques] G: nilotisch H: nil=F3tico, NIl=F3ti= ca [de las lenguas etc.] I: ? *Nilot.o A: Nilotic [member of a Nilotic= -speaking people] F: Nilotique G: Nilote H: NILOTA I: nilota *Nors.a= A: Norse [of the old Scandinavian language or people] F: nordique, nor= rois, scandinave G: altnordisch H: N=D3RDICO [de lAs lenguas DE LOS pa= =EDses escandinavos] I: norreno Esp: {A. Old Norse} (la) Norena (lingvo)= *Patan.a A: Pathan; Pashto, Pushto, Pushtu F: pathan G: ?; [Patana = linguo] das Paschtu H: PASHT=DA, PASHTO I: pathan Esp: Patana *Prus.= a A: Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: ? prusien [baltique], ? balte [= prussien] G: ? preu=DFisch [...?] H: PRUSIANO-A, PR=DASICO (acido) I: ?= Esp: Prusa *Prus.o A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people] F: ? Pr= usien [baltique], ? Balte [prussien] G: ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: PRUSIANO (u= lo), PRUSIANA (ino) I: ? Esp: Pruso *Sorab.a A: Sorb, Wendish, Lusati= on [adj.] F: sorabe G: sorbisch H: SORABO I: ? sorabo [di serbo di Lus= azia] *Sorab.o A: Sorb, Wend, Lusatian [person] F: Sorabe G: Sorbe = H: SORABO I: sorabo [serbo di Lusazia] *Yakut.a A: Yakut [adj.] F: ia= koute G: ? H: YAKUTA (lengua yakuta O yakuto) I: ? Esp: Jakuta *Yak= ut.o A: Yakut [person] F: Iakoute G: ? H: YAKUTA (ulo e ino) I: ? Es= p: Jakuto Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT = -----------------------------------------------= ------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit you= r group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ = b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: linguol= isto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups i= s subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this me= ssage have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1124 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30891 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 23:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ae.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.7) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:20 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0SN1Ims023372 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:01:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:46:13 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401281801_MC3-1-6B00-5B25@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.7 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Re: Hispana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Danko, Eduardo. Vu esas justa. Me hastis e ne donis suficanta informi. Me= omisas *Hasida nun (ol koncernas sekto di Judaismo). Yen listo plu klara,= me esperas: Robert C. __________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H= =3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri= : fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago= mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro *Chuvash.a / pri populo precipue en Rusa r= epubliko *Chuvashia (H: Chuvashia) / A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ? tchouvache = G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o A: Chuvash [person] = F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^o *Nilot.a / pri = linguo-grupo, hom-grupo e kulturo Afrikana, nomita pro proximeso a fluvio *= Nil / A: Nilotic [of the language group or its native speakers] F: niloti= que [des Nilotiques] G: nilotisch H: ? nil=F3tico [de las lenguas etc.] = I: ? *Nilot.o / membro di granda grupo etnala di Afrika / A: Nilotic [mem= ber of a Nilotic-speaking people] F: Nilotique G: Nilote H: ? nil=F3tico = [persona] I: nilota *Nors.a A: Norse [of the old Scandinavian language o= r people] F: nordique, norrois, scandinave G: altnordisch H: ? n=F3rdico = [de los i lenguas pa=EDses escandinavos] {La vorto "n=F3rdico" semble havas= anke 2 altra senci; ni mustas indikar a qua senco korespondus *Norsa} I:= norreno *Patan.a / pri grupo etnala di parti di Afganistan e *Pakistan. = La vorto "pashto" (A e H) ed olua varianti koncernas nur la linguo Persian(= atr)a / A: Pathan; Pashto, Pushto, Pushtu F: pathan G: ?; [Patana linguo= ] das Paschtu H: ? pathaan; pashto I: pathan Esp: Patana *Patan.o / mem= bro di grupo etnala sud-Aziana / A: Pathan [person] F: Pathan G: ? H: ?= I: pathan Esp: Patano *Prus.a / pri populo Baltika (ne Germana) e lia = linguo, simila a Latviana e Lituaniana, qua parolesis til 17ma yarcento / = A: Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: ? prusien [baltique], ? balte [pruss= ien] G: ? preu=DFisch [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Prusa *Prus.o / membro di = ta populo Baltika (ne Germana) / A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people] F= : ? Prusien [baltique], ? Balte [prussien] G: ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: ? I: ?= Esp: Pruso *Sorab.a / pri populo Slava en (ed apud?) est-Germania e lia= linguo / A: Sorb, Wendish, Lusation [adj.] F: sorabe G: sorbisch, wendis= ch H: ? I: ? sorabo [di serbo di Lusazia] *Sorab.o / persono *Soraba. = En F. Sorabes =3D peuple slave de Lusace / A: Sorb, Wend, Lusatian [person]= F: Sorabe G: Sorbe, Wende H: ? I: sorabo [serbo di Lusazia] *Yakut.a = / pri populo e linguo precipua di *Yakutia, lando di Siberia / A: Yakut [a= dj.] F: iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto I: ? Esp: Jakuta *Yakut.o / persono = *Yakuta / A: Yakut [person] F: Iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto I: ? Esp: Jaku= to __________ >Pri Prus.a e Prus.o, me kredas ke la tradukuro esus "prusia= no", se to relatas la lando qua cesis existar ye cirkume 100 yari ante nun= A: Prussia (tamen la vorto "Baltic" igas me pensar ke vu aludas altra ko= zo). La cetera vortin (*Chuvash.a, *Chuvash.o, *Hasid.a, *Nilot.a, *Nilot= .o, *Patan.a, *Sorab.a, *Sorab.o, *Yakut.a e *Yakut.o), me lektas unesmafo= ye en mea vivo. Ka vu povus precizigar lia signifiko, exemple per indikar = a qua regiono li apartenas? Forsan tale me povus helpar vu pluse. Amikale= , Eduardo A. RODI< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1125 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61772 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 23:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ae.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.7) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:29 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0SN1Sgh023850 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:01:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:46:15 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401281801_MC3-1-6B00-5B26@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.7 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Franca tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen plu listo plu informoza pri la nomi geografiala por qui mankas Franca t= radukuri. Robert C. _____________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H= =3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri= : fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago= mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro *Arabi.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Arabian Sea F= : ? mer d'Arabie, ? mer d'Oman G: ? H: mar de Arabia, mar Ar=E1bigo, mar = de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: (la) Araba Maro *Babiloni.a / regiono ed imperio di= qua la urbo precipua esis *Babilon / A: Babylonia F: ? G: Babylonien H:= Babilonia [baja Mesopotamia] I: ? Esp: Babilonio *Chuvash.a / pri popu= lo precipue en Rusa republiko *Chuvashia / A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ? tchouva= che G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o / persono *Chuva= sha / A: Chuvash [person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp= : C^uvas^o *Chuvashi.a / republiko en Rusia / A: Chuvash Republic F: ? r= =E9publique des Tchouvaches G: ? H: Chuvashia I: ? Esp: C^uvas^io *Kalm= uki.a / republiko di Rusa Federuro / A: Kalmykia F: ? r=E9publique autono= me des Kalmouks G: ? H: Kalmukia I: ? Esp: Kalmukio *Langobard.a A: La= ngobard, Langobardian, Lombard, Lombardic F: ? G: langobardisch H: lombar= do [relativo a un pueblo germ=E1nico] I: longobardico *Langobard.o / mem= bro di anciena grupo Germana; ne Lombardiano / A: Lombard [ancient], Lango= bard F: ? Lombard [membre du peuple germanique] G: Langobarde H: lombard= o [de un pueblo germ=E1nico] I: longobardo [persona] Esp: Longobardo *Per= si.an.a Gulf.o [mar.] A: Persian Gulf F: ? golfe Persique, ? golfe arabo-= persique G: (der) Persische Golf H: golfo P=E9rsico, golfo Ar=E1bigo I: ?= Esp: Persa Golfo *Prus.a / pri populo Baltika (ne Germana) e lia linguo= , simila a Latviana e Lituaniana, qua parolesis til 17ma yarcento / A: Pru= ssian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: ? prusien [baltique], ? balte [prussien] = G: ? preu=DFisch [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Prusa *Prus.o / membro di ta pop= ulo Baltika (ne Germana) / A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people] F: ? Pr= usien [baltique], ? Balte [prussien] G: ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp:= Pruso *Rus.a Feder.ur.o A: Russian Federation F: ? G: Russische F=F6de= ration, (F=F6deration) Russland H: Federaci=F3n Rusa I: ? *Samnit.a / p= ri la populo di Apenini bataliinta Romani / A: Samnite [adj.] F: ? samnite= G: ? H: samnita I: sannitico [dei sanniti] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1126 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24593 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 23:01:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ae.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.7) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:42 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0SN1dwX024414 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:01:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:46:19 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401281801_MC3-1-6B00-5B27@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.7 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Germana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo plu informoza pri nomi geografiala por qui mankas Germana traduku= ri. Robert C. _____________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispa= na; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviuri: fl.=3D= (pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont.= =3D(pri) monto o montaro *Abkazi.a / lando en Gruzia / A: Abkhazia F: A= bkhazie G: ? H: Abjasia I: Abkhasia *Adjari.a / parto di Turkia til 187= 8, nun parto di Gruzia / A: Adzharia F: Adjarie G: ? H: Adzharia I: ? = *Akab.a / portuo di Jordania. Tale forsan "gulfo di Akaba" (=3D "Akabo" en= Esp.) / A: Aqaba, Akaba F: Akaba, Aqaba G: ? H: Aqaba, Akaba I: ? *Ak= onkagu.a [mont.] / maxim alta monto di Andi. Anke nomo di fluvio di Chili?= / A: Aconcagua F: Aconcagua G: ? H: Aconcaqua I: ? Esp: Akonkagvo *A= rabi.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Arabian Sea F: ? mer d'Arabie, ? mer d'Oman G:= ? H: mar de Arabia, mar Ar=E1bigo, mar de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: (la) Araba M= aro *Birobijan / regiono autonoma di Judi en Rusa Fed.; olua urbo precipu= a / A: Birobijan, Birobidzhan F: Birobidjan G: ? H: Birobidzhan I: ? *= Chechen.a A: Chechen F: tch=E9tch=E8ne G: ? H: checheno I: ceceno Esp:= C^ec^ena, Noh^c^o *Chechen.o A: Chechen [person] F: Tch=E9tch=E8ne G: = ? H: checheno I: ceceno *Chuvash.a / pri populo precipue en Rusa republi= ko *Chuvashia / A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ? tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I= : ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o / persono *Chuvasha / A: Chuvash [person] = F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^o *Chuvashi.a / = republiko en Rusia / A: Chuvash Republic F: ? r=E9publique des Tchouvaches= G: ? H: Chuvashia I: ? Esp: C^uvas^io *Dagestan.o / republiko di Rusa= Federuro / A: Dagestan, Daghestan F: Daghestan, Daguestan G: ? H: Dagu= est=E1n I: ? Esp: Dagestano *Gibraltar-stret.aj.o [mar.] / stretajo inte= r *Gibraltar e Maroko / A: Strait of Gibraltar F: d=E9troit de Gibraltar = G: ? H: estrecho de Gibraltar I: ? Esp: G^ibraltara Markolo *Gulf.o di = Oman [mar.] A: Gulf of Oman F: golfe d'Oman G: ? H: golfo de Om=E1n I: = ? Esp: Omana Golfo *Hispaniol.a / insulo (ube esas du stati) en Antili /= A: Hispaniola F: l'=EEle d'Ha=EFti, Hispaniola G: ? H: La Espa=F1ola I= : Ispaniola Esp: Hispaniolo, Dominikinsulo *Hitit.a / pro populo di Avan= -Azia, olim kun grand imperio / A: Hittite F: hittite G: ? H: hitita I= : ittita Esp: Hitita *Irland.an.a Mar.o [mar.] / maro inter Irlando e Bri= tania / A: Irish Sea F: (la) mer d'Irlande G: ? H: mar de Irlanda I: ? = *Jersey / insulo proxim Francia / A: Jersey [island] F: Jersey [=EEle] G= : ? H: Jersey [isla brit=E1nica] I: ? Esp: J^erzejo *Kalmuk.a / pri pop= ulo (Mongolatra, Budhista) e lia linguo / A: Kalmuck, Kalmyk [adj.] F: ka= lmouk G: ? H: calmuco I: calmucco [agg.] Esp: Kalmuka *Kalmuki.a / rep= ubliko di Rusa Federuro / A: Kalmykia F: ? r=E9publique autonome des Kalmo= uks G: ? H: Kalmukia I: ? Esp: Kalmukio *Karibe.an.a Mar.o [mar.] / ma= ro inter Antili, central Amerika e sud-Amerika / A: Caribbean Sea F: (la)= mer des Antilles, (la) mer des Cara=EFbes G: ? H: mar Caribe, mar de las= Antillas I: ? Esp: (la) Kariba Maro *Kosov.o A: Kosovo F: Kosovo G: = ? H: Kosovo I: ? Esp: Kosovo *Krakov o Krakovi.a? / urbo di suda Poloni= a / A: Cracow F: Cracovie G: ? H: Cracovia I: Cracovia Esp: Krakovo *= Kuk-insul.i / insularo trovita da James Cook / A: Cook Islands F: Cook (= =EEles) G: ? Cook ...? H: Cook (islas) I: ? Cook ...? Esp: Kuk-Insularo = *Kuk-stret.aj.o [mar.] / inter la du insuli precipua di Nov-Zelando / A:= Cook Strait F: d=E9troit de Cook G: ? H: estrecho de Cook I: ? *Kuril.= i / longa grupo de 56 insuli inter Kamchatka e Japonia / A: Kuril Islands= , Kurile Islands F: Kouriles G: ? H: Kuriles I: ? Esp: Kuriloj *Lusita= n.a / pri populo di *Lusitania / A: Lusitanian [of Lusitania] F: lusitan= ien, lusitain [de la Lusitanie] G: ? H: lusitano, luso I: lusitano Esp: = Luzitana, Luzida *Lusitan.o / persono *Lusitana / A: Lusitanian [of Lusi= tania] F: Lusitanien, Lusitain [de la Lusitanie] G: ? H: lusitano, luso = I: lusitano Esp: Luzitano, Luzido *Lusitani.a / provinco Romana korespon= danta neprecize a Portugal / A: Lusitania F: Lusitanie G: ? H: Lusitani= a I: Lusitania Esp: Luzitanio [Romia provinco] *Mar.o di Chini.a [mar.] = A: China Sea F: (la) mer de China G: ? H: mar de China I: ? Esp: (la) C= ^ina Maro *Marmar.a Mar.o [mar.] / apud Turkia / A: Sea of Marmara, Sea = of Marmora F: (la) mer de Marmara G: ? H: mar de M=E1rmara I: ? Esp: M= armora Maro *Maskaren.i / grupo de tri insuli inkluzanta Maurico e Reunio= n / A: Mascarene Islands F: [=EEles] Mascareignes G: ? H: islas Mascare= =F1as I: ? Esp: Maskarenoj *Micene / anciena urbo Greka, importanta his= torie; tale *Miceneana / A: Mycenae F: Myc=E8nes G: ? H: Micenas I: Mic= ene Esp: Miceno *Mongoli.a Intern.a / regiono di Chinia / A: Inner Mong= olia F: Mongolie-Int=E9rieure G: ? H: Mongolia Interior I: ? Esp: Inter= na Mongolio, -ujo *Namib / dezerto / A: Namib Desert F: (d=E9sert du) N= amib G: ? H: (desierto de) Namib I: ? Esp: Namibo *Nov-Zemli.a / grand= a Rusa arkipelago. Ruse: "nova lando" / A: Novaya Zemlya, Nova Zembla F: N= ouvelle-Zemble G: ? H: Nueva Zembla I: ? Esp: Nova-Zemlo *Ormuz / insu= lo proxim Iran / A: Hormuz, Ormuz F: Ormuz G: ? H: Ormuz, Hormuz I: ? = *Ormuz-stret.aj.o [mar.] / stretajo apud *Ormuz (insulo proxim Iran) / A:= Strait of Hormuz F: d=E9troit d'Ormuz G: ? H: estrecho de Ormuz I: ? *= Oseti.a / regiono dividita inter Rusa Federuro (Norda *Osetia) e Gruzia (S= uda *Osetia) / A: Ossetia F: Oss=E9tie G: ? H: Osetia I: Ossezia Esp: = Osetio *Patan.a / pri grupo etnala di parti di Afganistan e *Pakistan. La= vorto "pashto" (A e H) ed olua varianti koncernas nur la linguo Persian(at= r)a / A: Pathan; Pashto, Pushto, Pushtu F: pathan G: ?; [Patana linguo] = das Paschtu H: ? pathaan; pashto I: pathan Esp: Patana *Patan.o / membr= o di grupo etnala sud-Aziana / A: Pathan [person] F: Pathan G: ? H: ? = I: pathan Esp: Patano *Prus.a / pri populo Baltika (ne Germana) e lia li= nguo, simila a Latviana e Lituaniana, qua parolesis til 17ma yarcento / A:= Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: ? prusien [baltique], ? balte [prussie= n] G: ? preu=DFisch [...?] H: ? I: ? Esp: Prusa *Prus.o / membro di ta= populo Baltika (ne Germana) / A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people] F: = ? Prusien [baltique], ? Balte [prussien] G: ? Preu=DFe [...?] H: ? I: ? = Esp: Pruso *Samnit.a / pri la populo di Apenini bataliinta Romani / A: Sa= mnite [adj.] F: ? samnite G: ? H: samnita I: sannitico [dei sanniti] *S= amnit.o / membro di populo di Apenini qua bataliis Romani / A: Samnite [p= erson] F: Samnite G: ? H: Samnita I: sannita *Sargas.a Mar.o [mar.] / = regiono specala di Atlantiko / A: Sargasso Sea F: (la) mer des Sargasses = G: ? H: mar de los Sargazos I: Mar dei Sargassi Esp: Sargasmaro *Tajik.= a / pri linguo e populo di central Azia / A: Tajik, Tadjik, Tadzhik [adj.= ] F: tadjik G: ? H: tadzhik I: tagicco, tagico, tagiko Esp: Tag^ika *T= ajik.o / persono *Tajika / A: Tajik, Tadjik, Tadzhik [person] F: Tadjik = G: ? H: tadzhik I: tagicco, tagico, tagiko Esp: Tag^iko *Tirenian.a Ma= r.o [mar.] / maro inter Italia e Sardinia / A: Tyrrhenian Sea F: (la) mer= Tyrrh=E9nienne G: ? H: mar Tirreno I: (mar) Tirreno Esp: Tirena Maro = *Tobag.o o Tobago? / insulo en Antili, en stato kun Trinidado / A: Tobago= F: Tobago G: ? H: Tobago I: Tobago Esp: Tobago *Ugr.a / sub-grupo li= nguala / A: Ugric F: ougrien G: ? H: ugro I: ? *ugrofin.a / pri popul= o-grupo, e linguo-grupo inkluzanta Finlandana, Madyara, Estoniana ed altri;= dividita a du subgrupi: *Finika ed *Ugra / A: Finno-Ugric, Ugro-Finnish F= : finno-ougrien G: ? ugrofinnisch H: ugrofin=E9s, finougro I: ugro-finnic= o, ugrofinnico *Ural-Altaik.a / pri linguo-grupo / A: Uralo-Altaic F: ou= ralo-alta=EFque G: ? H: uraloaltaico I: uralo-altaico *Viktori.a [mar.]= / granda lago di Afrika. Ja esas nomo (anke) di stato di Australia / A: = (Lake) Victoria F: Victoria [lac] G: ? H: lago Victoria I: ? Esp: Viktor= io [lago] *Volt.a [fl.] / fluvio en Afrika / A: Volta [river] F: Volta [= fleuve] G: ? H: Volta [r=EDo] I: ? Esp: Voltao [rivero] *Yakut.a / pr= i populo e linguo precipua di *Yakutia, lando di Siberia / A: Yakut [adj.]= F: iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto I: ? Esp: Jakuta *Yakut.o / persono *Yak= uta / A: Yakut [person] F: Iakoute G: ? H: ? yakuto I: ? Esp: Jakuto = *Yakuti.a / lando en Siberia / A: Yakutia F: Iakoutie G: ? H: Saja, Yak= utia I: ? Esp: Jakutio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1127 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12986 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2004 23:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ae.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.7) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2004 23:01:48 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i0SN1hx5024668 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:01:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 17:46:22 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200401281801_MC3-1-6B00-5B28@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.7 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Italiana tradukuri geografiala bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen (unesma) listo plu informoza di nomi geografiala por qui mankas Italian= a tradukuki. Robert C. _____________ A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; = H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Lat=3Dlatina Abreviur= i: fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lag= o mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro *Abudabi / tale: *Abudabiano e.c. / A: A= bu Dhabi [country] F: Abu Dhabi [pays] G: Abu Dhabi H: Abu Zabi, Abu Dabi= I: ? Esp: Abudabo* *Adjari.a / parto di Turkia til 1878, nun parto di G= ruzia / A: Adzharia F: Adjarie G: ? H: Adzharia I: ? *Akab.a / portuo= di Jordania. Tale forsan "gulfo di Akaba" (=3D "Akabo" en Esp.) / A: Aqab= a, Akaba F: Akaba, Aqaba G: ? H: Aqaba, Akaba I: ? *Akonkagu.a [mont.] = / maxim alta monto di Andi. Anke nomo di fluvio di Chili? / A: Aconcagua = F: Aconcagua G: ? H: Aconcaqua I: ? Esp: Akonkagvo *Alt.a-Volt.a / an= tea nomo di *Burkina-Faso / A: Upper Volta F: Haute-Volta G: Obervolta = H: Alto Volta I: ? *Grand.a Antil.i A: Greater Antilles F: Grandes Anti= lles G: Gro=DFen Antillen H: Grandes Antillas, Antillas Mayores I: ? Esp:= Grandaj Antiloj *Mikr.a Antil.i A: Lesser Antilles F: Petites Antilles = G: Kleinen Antillen H: Peque=F1as Antillas, Antillas Menores I: ? Esp: Ma= lgrandaj Antiloj *Arabi.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Arabian Sea F: ? mer d'Arab= ie, ? mer d'Oman G: ? H: mar de Arabia, mar Ar=E1bigo, mar de Om=E1n I: = ? Esp: (la) Araba Maro *Aral.o [mar.] / lago o maro di Azia centrala. Ad= jektivo: *Arala / A: Aral Sea F: Aral [mer ou lac d'] G: Aralsee H: (mar= de) Aral I: ? Esp: Aralo *Babilon / precipua urbo di olima Mezopotamia= / A: Babylon F: Babylone G: Babylon H: Babilonia [ciudad] I: ? Esp: Ba= bilono *Babiloni.a / regiono ed imperio di qua la urbo precipua esis *Bab= ilon / A: Babylonia F: ? G: Babylonien H: Babilonia [baja Mesopotamia] = I: ? Esp: Babilonio *Baikal.o [mar.] / lago Siberiana, maxim profunda di= l mondo. Adjektivo: *Baikala / A: Baikal [Lake] F: Ba=EFkal G: Baikalsee = H: Baikal I: ? Esp: Bajkalo *Bask.o.land.o / regiono kovranta parto di= Francia e parto di Hispania / A: Basque Country F: Pays basque G: Basken= land H: Pa=EDs Vasco I: ? Esp: Vaskio, Eu`skio *Bering.a [mar.] / pri = maro ye nordo di Pacifiko e pri stretajo / A: Bering F: de B=E9ring, de B= ehring G: Bering- H: de Bering, Behring I: ? Esp: Beringa *Bering.a Mar= .o [mar.] A: Bering Sea F: B=E9ring, Behring [mer de] G: Beringmeer H: = Bering, Behring [mar de] I: ? Esp: Beringa maro *Bering.a Stret.aj.o [mar= .] A: Bering Strait F: B=E9ring, Behring [d=E9troit de] G: Beringstra=DF= e H: Bering, Behring [estrecho de] I: ? Esp: Beringa markolo *Birobijan= / regiono autonoma di Judi en Rusa Fed.; olua urbo precipua / A: Birobij= an, Birobidzhan F: Birobidjan G: ? H: Birobidzhan I: ? *Bospor.o [mar.]= / mar-stretajo di Turkia inter Nigra Maro ed altra maro / A: Bosporus, B= osphorus F: Bosphore G: Bosporus H: B=F3sforo I: ? Esp: Bosporo *Bukov= in.a / regiono dividita inter *Ukraina e Rumania / A: Bukovina, Bucovina = F: Bucovine G: Bukowina H: Bucovina, Bukovina I: ? *Chuvash.a / pri pop= ulo precipue en Rusa republiko *Chuvashia / A: Chuvash [adj.] F: ? tchouv= ache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Esp: C^uvas^a *Chuvash.o / persono *Chuv= asha / A: Chuvash [person] F: ? Tchouvache G: ? H: ? chuvashi I: ? Es= p: C^uvas^o *Chuvashi.a / republiko en Rusia / A: Chuvash Republic F: ? = r=E9publique des Tchouvaches G: ? H: Chuvashia I: ? Esp: C^uvas^io *Dag= estan.o / republiko di Rusa Federuro / A: Dagestan, Daghestan F: Daghest= an, Daguestan G: ? H: Daguest=E1n I: ? Esp: Dagestano *Dahome / antea = nomo di Benin / A: Dahomey F: Dahomey G: Dahome H: Dahomey I: ? *Euraz= i.a / I. havas "eurasiatico, euroasiatico, eurasiano" por *Euraziana, -o /= A: Eurasia F: Eurasie G: Eurasien H: Eurasia I: ? Esp: Eu`razio *Fae= ro / tale *Faeroano (ne *Faerano!). Loik propozas *Feroe / A: Faeroes, Fa= roes, Faeroe Islands F: F=E9ro=E9, Faeroe G: F=E4r=F6er H: Feroe, Faeroe= , Faroe I: ? Faer=F2erne Esp: Insuloj Feroaj, Feroio *Frank.a A: Frankis= h [of the ancient Franks] F: franc [d'un peuple germanique] G: fr=E4nkisc= h H: franco [relativo a un pueblo germ=E1nico] I: ? franco [trib=F9 germa= niche] Esp: Franka *Gael.o A: Gael, Goidel F: Ga=EBl G: G=E4lin H: Ga= =EBl I: ? Esp: Gaelo *Galapag.i A: Gal=E1pagos Islands F: (=EEles) Gal= =E1pagos G: Galapagosinseln H: Gal=E1pagos, (Archipi=E9lago de) Col=F3n I:= ? Esp: Galapagoj *Gibraltar-stret.aj.o [mar.] / stretajo inter *Gibralt= ar e Maroko / A: Strait of Gibraltar F: d=E9troit de Gibraltar G: ? H: e= strecho de Gibraltar I: ? Esp: G^ibraltara Markolo *Gobi / vasta dezert= o di Azia. Tale *Gobiana (ne *Gobana) / A: Gobi F: Gobi G: Gobi H: Gobi = I: ? Esp: Gobio *Gulf.o di Oman [mar.] A: Gulf of Oman F: golfe d'Oman= G: ? H: golfo de Om=E1n I: ? Esp: Omana Golfo *Ibiz.a / un dil Balear= i / A: Ibiza [island] F: Ibiza [=EEle] G: Ibiza H: Ibiza, Eivissa [isla= ] I: ? *Ioni.an.a Mar.o [mar.] A: Ionian Sea F: Ionienne (mar) G: Ionis= ches Meer H: mar J=F3nico I: ? *Irland.an.a Mar.o [mar.] / maro inter I= rlando e Britania / A: Irish Sea F: (la) mer d'Irlande G: ? H: mar de Ir= landa I: ? *Jersey / insulo proxim Francia / A: Jersey [island] F: Jerse= y [=EEle] G: ? H: Jersey [isla brit=E1nica] I: ? Esp: J^erzejo *Kaledon= i.a / nomo Romana por regiono nun korespondanta (plu o min exakte) a Skoti= a. Ja existas en Ido "Nov-Kaledonia"! / A: Caledonia F: Cal=E9donie G: Ka= ledonien H: Caledonia I: ? Caledonia Esp: Kaledonio *Kalmuki.a / repub= liko di Rusa Federuro / A: Kalmykia F: ? r=E9publique autonome des Kalmouk= s G: ? H: Kalmukia I: ? Esp: Kalmukio *Karibe.an.a Mar.o [mar.] / maro= inter Antili, central Amerika e sud-Amerika / A: Caribbean Sea F: (la) m= er des Antilles, (la) mer des Cara=EFbes G: ? H: mar Caribe, mar de las A= ntillas I: ? Esp: (la) Kariba Maro *Kirgiz.o A: Kirghiz, Kirgiz [person= ] F: Kirguiz G: Kirgise H: kirguiz I: ? *Kosov.o A: Kosovo F: Kosovo = G: ? H: Kosovo I: ? Esp: Kosovo *Kuk-insul.i / insularo trovita da Jam= es Cook / A: Cook Islands F: Cook (=EEles) G: ? Cook ...? H: Cook (isla= s) I: ? Cook ...? Esp: Kuk-Insularo *Kuk-stret.aj.o [mar.] / inter la du= insuli precipua di Nov-Zelando / A: Cook Strait F: d=E9troit de Cook G:= ? H: estrecho de Cook I: ? *Kuril.i / longa grupo de 56 insuli inter Ka= mchatka e Japonia / A: Kuril Islands, Kurile Islands F: Kouriles G: ? H:= Kuriles I: ? Esp: Kuriloj From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1128 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22472 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2004 04:09:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2004 04:09:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2004 04:09:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.132] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2004 04:09:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 04:09:53 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1590 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 SUGESTI POR IDO *KOMPUTORALA VORTI (1). (a) Multi de Ido vorti es uzebla sen chanjo. (b) Usa-angla vorti provizas preske omna la specala vortaro ma kelkatempe es jokatra (quale "molvaro"). Konseque en Ido ni devas uzar vorto quan montras la funciono. (c) Tamen ni remarkas ke en franca, existas alter-nativo vorti:, p.e. "ordinateur, logiciel ed octet" vice "computer, software and byte". Ni vidas ta vorti en hispana ed itala ma anke e tempope, l'Usa-angla vorti. Do semblas saja ke Ido uzus l'Usa-angla vorti pro ke li es plu grande ubiqua. (d) La Usa-angla vorti por instrumento o moyeno ofte uzas l'angla finalo "-er" (F: "-eur", H: "-or"}, ma en Ido "-ero" = diletanto, do es neuzebla. (e) Me sugestas la finalo (ne sufixo) "-oro". Do vice "printer", "scanner" edc. ni skribas "imprimoro" e "skanoro". Ido ja havas ta finalo en "transistoro" e "procesoro" edc. (e) Forsan ni povas uzar "-oro" por elektronikale guvernita aparati, ed "-ilo" por manuala instrumenti. Sugesti: ADC = *analoga (nombro) a *dijitala chanjoro. Ni ne povas uzar "digitalo" = digitalis (planto). *analoga = nombro qua kontinue chanjas *audio = signalo per sono. *audio-vidala = informo per sono e vid(ad)o. *autokargoro. Programo qua kargas su automate. *baudo = 1 bito po sekundo. *bayo = plaso en *komputorala buxo ube on povas plasar od adjuntar aparato quale disk-mashino. *baito = A:"byte". Bazala unajo di *datumi qui subisas manipulado. Olim 8 biti ma nun 16 o mem 32 biti. Per ta moyeno,*komputado e do la mashino es plu rapida. [Duronta} Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1129 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30806 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2004 01:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2004 01:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2004 01:04:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 11592 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2004 01:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 31 Jan 2004 01:04:51 -0000 Message-ID: <001201c3e796$96b71f40$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 02:07:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Richard, Yen mea opiniono : 1) Pri la usa-angla vorti "analogue" e "= digital": La dicionario Franca-Ido di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront donas : = logique: (sf.) logiko ; (adj.) logikala analogique: analoga analogue: analo= ga Do me kredas ke la Franca-Ido dicionario eroras pri "analogique" e ke ni= devus havar: analogique: analogala analogique[F]; analogic, analog[A] : = analogala digital, num=E9rique[F]; digital, numerical[A]: *dijitala, numera= la En teknikala domeno on uzas anke: chiffre, digit[F]; digit[A] Do on pov= us havar: digit[A, F] : *dijito 2) Ka la sufixi i (domeno) ne povus esar u= tila por la sequanta vorti ? audio[A, F]: aud-i-o video[A, F]: vid-i-o aud= io-video[A, F]: audio-vidio 3) Pri la vorto *baito quan vu sugestis, me pr= eferus *bayto Amikale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : richste= ven2000 =C0 : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : vendredi 30 janv= ier 2004 05:09 Objet : [linguo] Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (1) SU= GESTI POR IDO *KOMPUTORALA VORTI (1). (a) Multi de Ido vorti es uze= bla sen chanjo. (b) Usa-angla vorti provizas preske omna la specala vorta= ro ma kelkatempe es jokatra (quale "molvaro"). Konseque en Ido ni devas = uzar vorto quan montras la funciono. (c) Tamen ni remarkas ke en fran= ca, existas alter-nativo vorti:, p.e. "ordinateur, logiciel ed octet" vi= ce "computer, software and byte". Ni vidas ta vorti en hispana ed itala = ma anke e tempope, l'Usa-angla vorti. Do semblas saja ke Ido uzus l'Usa-= angla vorti pro ke li es plu grande ubiqua. (d) La Usa-angla vorti por= instrumento o moyeno ofte uzas l'angla finalo "-er" (F: "-eur", H: "-or= "}, ma en Ido "-ero" =3D diletanto, do es neuzebla. (e) Me sugestas = la finalo (ne sufixo) "-oro". Do vice "printer", "scanner" edc. ni skrib= as "imprimoro" e "skanoro". Ido ja havas ta finalo en "transistoro" e "p= rocesoro" edc. (e) Forsan ni povas uzar "-oro" por elektronikale guvernit= a aparati, ed "-ilo" por manuala instrumenti. Sugesti: ADC = =3D *analoga (nombro) a *dijitala chanjoro. Ni ne povas uzar "digitalo" = =3D digitalis (planto). *analoga =3D nombro qua kontinue chanjas = *audio =3D signalo per sono. *audio-vidala =3D informo per s= ono e vid(ad)o. *autokargoro. Programo qua kargas su automate. = *baudo =3D 1 bito po sekundo. *bayo =3D plaso en *komputorala b= uxo ube on povas plasar od adjuntar aparato quale disk-mashino. = *baito =3D A:"byte". Bazala unajo di *datumi qui subisas manipulado. Oli= m 8 biti ma nun 16 o mem 32 biti. Per ta moyeno,*komputado e do la mashi= no es plu rapida. [Duronta} Amikale, Richard Stevenson. [Non-text p= ortions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1130 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71094 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2004 09:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2004 09:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.24) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2004 09:43:12 -0000 Received: from azalia ([24.132.24.215]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040131094310.EQRX7823.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:43:10 +0100 Message-ID: <007501c3e7de$c1a248e0$d7188418@azalia> To: References: <001201c3e796$96b71f40$886bdc51@landloic> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:44:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.24 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara amiki, Ka ni riinventas la roto? Me pensas ke ja existis la vorto "bito", qua recente oficaligesis, o ka me eroras? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Kara Richard, Yen mea opiniono : 1) Pri la usa-angla vorti "analogue" e "digital": La dicionario Franca-Ido di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront donas : logique: (sf.) logiko ; (adj.) logikala analogique: analoga analogue: analoga Do me kredas ke la Franca-Ido dicionario eroras pri "analogique" e ke ni devus havar: analogique: analogala analogique[F]; analogic, analog[A] : analogala digital, num�rique[F]; digital, numerical[A]: *dijitala, numerala En teknikala domeno on uzas anke: chiffre, digit[F]; digit[A] Do on povus havar: digit[A, F] : *dijito 2) Ka la sufixi i (domeno) ne povus esar utila por la sequanta vorti ? audio[A, F]: aud-i-o video[A, F]: vid-i-o audio-video[A, F]: audio-vidio 3) Pri la vorto *baito quan vu sugestis, me preferus *bayto Amikale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1131 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23648 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2004 23:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2004 23:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2004 23:09:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.146] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2004 23:08:11 -0000 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:08:10 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001201c3e796$96b71f40$886bdc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3987 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Re: [linguo] Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 --- Kara Loic, Danko por vua opinioni pri *komputorala vorti. (1) La angl= a-Ido dicionario da Dyer nur havas la senco di analoga =3D "similesas". L= a aritmetikala senco evidente existas en franca dicionarii ma ni mustas ad= juntar la vorto "numerique" o "numerala". Por uzar un vorto, me sugestas = *analoga e *dijitala (nombro), e ni esperas ke la aritmetikala kuntexto mo= ntros la korekta senco. (2) Vu es justa, la vorto "audio" ne obedias Ido gr= amatiko. Forsan ni uzus la du Ido radiki "aud-" e "vid-" facar kompozito *= audavidala =3D A: audio-visual. (Por plufaciligar la pronunco, ni bezonas = vokalo inter la du konsonanti "d" e "v"). (3) Segun la libri di mea preavo= , ante 1914 la litero "y" esis mivokalo, e ni havis vorti kom "gloryo" Ma = plu tarde, "y" esis nur konsonanto ed on ne povis facar diftongo kom "ay",= (anke en la KGD, pag. 15).En la vorto "bayo", la "y" es vera konsonanto. = Do me sugestas *baito. Me prizas vua komenti pro ke Ido urjante bezonas *k= omputorala vortaro. Amikale, Richard. In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, = "Loic Landais" wrote: > Kara Richard, > > Yen mea opi= niono : > 1) Pri la usa-angla vorti "analogue" e "digital": > La dicionar= io Franca-Ido di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront donas : > logique: (sf.) logik= o ; (adj.) logikala > analogique: analoga > analogue: analoga > Do me kreda= s ke la Franca-Ido dicionario eroras pri "analogique" e ke ni devus havar:= > analogique: analogala > > analogique[F]; analogic, analog[A] : analoga= la > digital, num=E9rique[F]; digital, numerical[A]: *dijitala, numerala > = > En teknikala domeno on uzas anke: chiffre, digit[F]; digit[A] > Do on po= vus havar: > digit[A, F] : *dijito > > 2) Ka la sufixi i (domeno) ne povus= esar utila por la sequanta vorti ? > audio[A, F]: aud-i-o > video[A, F]:= vid-i-o > audio-video[A, F]: audio-vidio > > 3) Pri la vorto *baito quan = vu sugestis, me preferus *bayto > > Amikale > Loik > ----- Message d'ori= gine ----- > De : richsteven2000 > =C0 : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com = > Envoy=E9 : vendredi 30 janvier 2004 05:09 > Objet : [linguo] Sugesti= por *komputorala vorti (1) > > > SUGESTI POR IDO *KOMPUTORALA VORTI = > (1). > (a) Multi de Ido vorti es uzebla sen chanjo. > (b) Usa-ang= la vorti provizas preske omna la specala vortaro ma > kelkatempe es joka= tra (quale "molvaro"). Konseque en Ido ni devas > uzar vorto quan montr= as la funciono. > (c) Tamen ni remarkas ke en franca, existas alter-nati= vo vorti:, > p.e. "ordinateur, logiciel ed octet" vice "computer, softwa= re and > byte". Ni vidas ta vorti en hispana ed itala ma anke e tempope= , > l'Usa-angla vorti. Do semblas saja ke Ido uzus l'Usa-angla vorti pr= o > ke li es plu grande ubiqua. > (d) La Usa-angla vorti por instrumen= to o moyeno ofte uzas l'angla > finalo "-er" (F: "-eur", H: "-or"}, ma = en Ido "-ero" =3D diletanto, > do es neuzebla. > (e) Me sugestas la= finalo (ne sufixo) "-oro". Do > vice "printer", "scanner" edc. ni skrib= as "imprimoro" e "skanoro". > Ido ja havas ta finalo en "transistoro" e= "procesoro" edc. > (e) Forsan ni povas uzar "-oro" por elektronikale guv= ernita aparati, > ed "-ilo" por manuala instrumenti. > > Sugesti: > = ADC =3D *analoga (nombro) a *dijitala chanjoro. Ni ne povas > uz= ar "digitalo" =3D digitalis (planto). > *analoga =3D nombro qua ko= ntinue chanjas > *audio =3D signalo per sono. > *audio-vida= la =3D informo per sono e vid(ad)o. > *autokargoro. Programo qua ka= rgas su automate. > *baudo =3D 1 bito po sekundo. > *bayo = =3D plaso en *komputorala buxo ube on povas plasar od > adjuntar aparato= quale disk-mashino. > *baito =3D A:"byte". Bazala unajo di *datumi= qui subisas > manipulado. Olim 8 biti ma nun 16 o mem 32 biti. Per ta = > moyeno,*komputado e do la mashino es plu rapida. > [Duronta} > Amik= ale, Richard Stevenson. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have b= een removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1132 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 56591 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2004 03:06:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2004 03:06:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2004 03:06:23 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i123602L014035 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:36:04 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i12360RY014032 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:36:00 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:36:00 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: Linguo Listo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Probo - ignorez X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1133 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1655 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2004 04:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2004 04:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2004 04:17:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2004 04:16:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 04:16:33 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2053 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.71 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 SUGESTI POR IDO *KOMPUTORALA VORTI (2) *datumi. = A: data (pl). Anke Ido: donaji, fakti. La vorto "data" es pluralo, ma kelkatempe en angla ol recevas singulara verbo. *datumaro, datumbazo = A: database = grupo di relata datumi o dokumenti. *dijito = cifro = integro (A: digit). *dijitala = nombro kun specifika valoro. p.e. dum binara *komputado, on uzas dijiti 0 ed 1. *dokumento = A: file = texto, datumi. o programo konservita en la memoro. *dokumentaro = A: files. Multa dokumenti. *enkargar = A: download = pozar programi o datumi de interreto o disko a la memoro. *grafiko = pikturo o desegno qua on facas o konservas elektrokale. Me sugestas ke *grafo = matematikala imajo sur papero o *monitoro vice la Ido vorto "grafiko" *imprimoro = A: printer. Imprimilo es de la Esperanto vorto, ma forsan Ido uzas *imprimoro por elektronikala mashino qua imprimas la texto de vortprocesoro o *grafiki; ed imprimilo = plu anciena mashino qua imprimas mekanikale o manuale. *interfaco od *interkomuniko = A: interface. *interfacio es anke posibla, (facio = avana parto). *InterRupto-Questiono = IRQ = A: Interrupt request. (Posibla Ido akronimo!) *kasho = A:cache. Mikra memoro. *kodo = literi o simboli qui apartenas a certena linguo. Posible havas celita senco. p.e. *mors-kodo, mashino-kodo. L'Ido vorto "kodexo" konfuzigas anglaparolanti pro ke "codex" = antiqua libro o dokumento. *kompakta disko A: CD. Deskripto di la funciono p.e. *muzikodisko, es plu apta en Ido. *klono = A:clone = preciza kopio. *komputar = exekutar diversa agivi per elektronikala moyeno:- kalkular, funcionigar programi, facar grafiki, uzar kalkulo-tabelo edc. *komputoro = aparato qua *komputas. Vice la finalo "-er" di A: "computer" on skribas "-oro", ja en transistoro, alternatoro, generatoro edc. On anke vidas *komputilo quale en Esperanto, ma me sentas ke Ido havus moderna vorto kun finalo "-oro", indikar aparato qua "agas", ofte per elektro o elektroniko. (En angla, "printer" = elektronikala). Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1134 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50147 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 12:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 12:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 12:24:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.183] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2004 12:24:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:24:18 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 263 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.73 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kar amiki, Ka vi judikas kom aceptebla la sequanta expresuro: "duris multa monati til vu komprenis mea decido" Mea questiono relatas precipue la hika sensubjekta uzo di la verbo "durar". Ka to povus esar aceptebla en Ido? Kun saluti kordial, Goncalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1135 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75605 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 12:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 12:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.28) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 12:38:01 -0000 Received: from azalia ([24.132.24.215]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040206123749.OYCH9653.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:37:49 +0100 Message-ID: <003201c3ecae$2523be70$d7188418@azalia> To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:38:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.28 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Gon�alo, Yes, segun me to es tre aceptebla. Anke klara. Me uzas la sama formo, do por me es komprenebla ed aceptebla. Quon dicos l' altri? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere > Kar amiki, > > Ka vi judikas kom aceptebla la sequanta expresuro: > > "duris multa monati til vu komprenis mea decido" > > Mea questiono relatas precipue la hika sensubjekta uzo di la > verbo "durar". Ka to povus esar aceptebla en Ido? > > Kun saluti kordial, > > Goncalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1136 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64481 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 13:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 13:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO viriato2.servicios.retecal.es) (212.89.0.45) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 13:31:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 488 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 13:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fernando) ([212.183.202.72]) (envelope-sender ) by 0 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Feb 2004 13:35:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000601c3ecb5$ecc56120$48cab7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:34:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.89.0.45 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Tej=F3n?= Subject: Re: [linguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara sampeninsulano Gon=E7alo Neves Me nultempe skribus: "duris multa mon= ati til vu komprenis mea decido" (1) ma simple "multa monati finesis til k= e vu komprenis mea decido" (2). Forsan esus korekta frazo: "onu duris mult= a monati til ke vu komprenis mea decido" (3), nam onu povas montrar neperso= nal subjekto per onu / on. Ma vere me ne prizas la triesma frazo. Desfortu= noze to quon me propozas forsan esas maxim granda eroro, nam mea savo Idal = ankore esas tam mikra kam saluno. Amikala saluti sendas a vu Fernando TE= JON ----- Original Message ----- From: Goncalo Neves To: linguolis= to@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 1:24 PM Subject: [l= inguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? Kar amiki, Ka vi judikas kom acepteb= la la sequanta expresuro: "duris multa monati til vu komprenis mea decid= o" Mea questiono relatas precipue la hika sensubjekta uzo di la verbo= "durar". Ka to povus esar aceptebla en Ido? Kun saluti kordial, Gonc= alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1137 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30131 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 13:44:47 -0000 Received: from azalia ([24.132.24.215]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040206134443.GRGR15878.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:44:43 +0100 Message-ID: <004301c3ecb7$7d7f7060$d7188418@azalia> To: References: <000601c3ecb5$ecc56120$48cab7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:45:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Fernando, Saluno spicizas la manjajo, ka ne? ;-). Do vua saluno anke spicizas nia Ido. Ma, koncernante la frazo, me kredas ke la subjekto di 'durar', ca-kaze es 'lo'. Do: Lo duris multa monati (subjekto figurala) Me lernis ke en Ido, simile kam en la Hispana, on povas omisar 'lo'. (en l' Angla, la Nederlandana, la Germana, on uzas rispektive:) - It took a lot of months - Het duurde vele maanden - Es dauerte viele Monaten - Duraba muchos meses Pluvas - it rains - het regent - es regnet - llueve Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Kara sampeninsulano Gon�alo Neves Me nultempe skribus: "duris multa monati til vu komprenis mea decido" (1) ma simple "multa monati finesis til ke vu komprenis mea decido" (2). Forsan esus korekta frazo: "onu duris multa monati til ke vu komprenis mea decido" (3), nam onu povas montrar nepersonal subjekto per onu / on. Ma vere me ne prizas la triesma frazo. Desfortunoze to quon me propozas forsan esas maxim granda eroro, nam mea savo Idal ankore esas tam mikra kam saluno. Amikala saluti sendas a vu Fernando TEJON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1138 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30793 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 17:27:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 17:27:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 17:27:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2004 17:27:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:27:55 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 357 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Me skribis: > "duris multa monati til vu komprenis mea decido" Regretinde me eroris. La justa expresuro en Ido es: "duris multa monati til KE vu komprenis mea decido" Goncalo Neves > > Mea questiono relatas precipue la hika sensubjekta uzo di la > verbo "durar". Ka to povus esar aceptebla en Ido? > > Kun saluti kordial, > > Goncalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1139 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72332 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 17:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 17:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 17:32:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2004 17:32:02 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:32:01 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004301c3ecb7$7d7f7060$d7188418@azalia> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 156 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Hans skribis: > - Duraba muchos meses Segun mea savo la verbon "durar" on ne uzas sensubjekte en la Hispana (nek en la Portugalana). Goncalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1140 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11778 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 17:38:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2004 17:38:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 17:38:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.128] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2004 17:37:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:37:53 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000601c3ecb5$ecc56120$48cab7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 389 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Fernando skribis: > Me nultempe skribus: "duris multa monati til vu komprenis mea decido" (1) > > ma simple "multa monati finesis til ke vu komprenis mea decido" (2). Suficas dicar "multa monati FINIS til ke" ["finesis" es balasta hike]. Altra posibla maniero expresar lo sama esus forsan: "multa monati pasis til ke" o mem plu bone: "multa monati pasis ante ke". Goncalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1141 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53444 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 00:47:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2004 00:47:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2004 00:47:16 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i170l82L024367 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:17:09 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i170l84L024364 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:17:08 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:17:08 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <004301c3ecb7$7d7f7060$d7188418@azalia> Message-ID: References: <000601c3ecb5$ecc56120$48cab7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> <004301c3ecb7$7d7f7060$d7188418@azalia> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2004-02-06 14:45 +0100, H. Stuifbergen skribis: (pri: "duris multa monati til KE vu komprenis mea decido") > Ma, koncernante la frazo, me kredas ke la subjekto di 'durar', ca-kaze es > 'lo'. Do: > > Lo duris multa monati (subjekto figurala) Ma la frazeto de So. Neves semblas a me obskura pro ke ol ne semblas gramatikale kompleta, e lu ne puntizis ol kom frazo. Do on tote ne povas divinar kad il intencis ol kom la kompleta frazo: "Duris multa monati til ke vu komprenis mea decido." o kad il advere questionis pri la intence nekompleta frazo "... duris multa monati til ke vu komprenis mea decido ..." > > Me lernis ke en Ido, simile kam en la Hispana, on povas omisar 'lo'. > > (en l' Angla, la Nederlandana, la Germana, on uzas rispektive:) > - It took a lot of months "It took" esas specala kazo. La "it", quale "it rains" esas nur gramatikala. Ta "it" ne signifkas reala subjekto. Nur tale on darfas e mustas omisar la subjekto en Ido. On ne povas skribar "ol pluvas", pro ke on ne dicas ke ula subjekto pluvas. Nek la vetero nek la cielo pluvas. On nur volas dicar ke pluvo eventas. Me ne facile povas tradukar la fraz(et)o di S. Neves aden la Angla, do semblas a me esas problemo pri ol. "It lasted many months, till you understood my decision." To povas signifikar, exemple, "Nia deskonkordo duris dum multa monati, ma fine vu komprenis mea decido." Hike, "nia deskonkordo" esas reala subjekto. On mustus skribar "Lo duris dum multa monati." Takaze esus erora skribar "Duris dum multa monati." Ibe on omisis necesa subjekto. Ma pri "Pluvis." nula tala subjekto existas. Ma, "Sequis multa monati til ke vu komprenis mea decido." "Pasis multa monati ante ke vu komprenis mea decido." semblas a me korekta. Hike "multa monati" esas la subjekto, ka ne? Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1142 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56757 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 03:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2004 03:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60810.mail.yahoo.com) (216.155.196.73) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2004 03:26:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20040207032638.86514.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.17.201.212] by web60810.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:26:38 PST Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:26:38 -0800 (PST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.155.196.73 From: Don Gasper Subject: Kad aceptebla expresuro? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara linguisti, La expresuro "duris multa monati" esas tote korekta en Ido, mem se ol semblas stranja a parolanti dil hispana o portugalana. Ol esas simple renverso di "multa monati duris", do la subjekto restas "monati". On ne bezonas (e ne darfas) adjuntar pseudo-subjekto en Ido, kontree al praktiko en kelka lingui - quale Michael juste remarkas. Nek "ol pluvis" nek "lo pluvis". Cetere, Fernando juste korektigis "til" a "til ke" nam "til" esas prepoziciono e ne konjuntivo, kontre al kazo en la angla (od en Interlingua ube "usque" pleas amba roli). Simila kazo esas la prepoziciono "dum", qua en Esperanto povas esar e prepoziciono e konjuntivo. Ne en Ido! Ma me kredas ke tu miskomprenas la senco di "onu", Fernando. "Onu" esas nedefinita personala subjekto (od objekto), exemple "On dicas": Personi dicas, ma on (!) ne indikas qua personi. Ol ne esas nepersonala pseudo-subjekto quale la franca "il", la germana "es" o la angla "it" : On ne darfas dicar "onu pluvas" o "onu pasis multa monati"! Kordiale, Don --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1143 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31681 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 11:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2004 11:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.189) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2004 11:23:28 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ApQYW-0003KW-00; Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:23:24 +0100 Received: from [212.114.238.118] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ApQYW-0002vT-00; Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:23:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3ed6c$bbcc86e0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Janna Reunova" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Manfred Magin" , "G�nter Schlemminger" Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:21:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.189 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Mea retroveno a la "kustumala" mondo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! Kun grandega plezuro me povas informar vi, ke me dum ven= erdio, la 06esma di februaro 2004 pos quarsemana sejorno en kuracerio itere= retrovenis heme. Dum la semanofino e dum lundio me devas okupar pri privat= a kozi, qui vartis me dum mea absenteso. Pro ke me vizitis mea patro e mea = frati la recenta foyo ante la Ido-konfero en Grossbothen me dum mardio, la= 10.02. voyajos ad Anklam e restos ibe til la 18.02.04. Pos la 19.02.04 me= fine intencas itere lente komencar okupar aktive pri Ido. Adminime me depo= s hodie ed anke en Anklam itere recevos e lektos l'Ido-mesaji sendita a la = interreta forumi e volunte anke reaktos, se me trovos la tempo. Me itere ri= aktivigis l'e-postala adreso frank.kasper@ido.li , quan me efacis pro imped= ar la recevo di 1000 plusa reklamachi dum mea samtempa absenteso di mea hem= o e dil interreta mondo. Do, me nun deziras al vi agreabla semanofino ed o= mno bona! Kordiala saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1144 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28570 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 12:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2004 12:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2004 12:55:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 12939 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 12:55:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Feb 2004 12:55:27 -0000 Message-ID: <004101c3ed7a$06c0d680$886bdc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Cc: "francido" , "idolisto" Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:58:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: *graviteso e *pezanto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Sekretario dil L.Q. ed altri interesita, Por la traduko de franca a= rtiklo "Le probl=E8me linguistique de l'Union Europ=E9enne" di G.Kersaudy, = me bezonis tradukar la franca expreso "lois de la pesanteur". Semblas a me= ke la Franca-dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront (1915) eroras por = tradukar "pesanteur" e "gravit=E9", pro ke ol donas: pesant : pezanta; gra= va pesanteur : (qualit=E9) grav-eso; (poids) pezo poids: pezo gravit=E9: = (pesanteur) graveso; (importance) importo, graveso. graviter: gravitar grav= itation:gravito Segun me ca dicionario eroras pri "pesanteur" e "poids", n= am ol donas la sama vorto "pezo" por ca amba nocioni. Ma ol eroras anke pr= i "gravit=E9" nam ol donas la sama vorto "graveso" por la amba nocioni (pes= anteur) e (importance). Do me propozas ca du nova vorti: *pezanto =3D pesan= teur [F] (vice pezo) *gra= viteso =3D gravit=E9 [F] (vice graveso) Pezo esas la mezuro di la forco *= pezanto kreata da la *graviteso sur la maso. Do segun me on mustas dicar "= la legi di *graviteso" ma ne " la legi di la graveso". Kun ca du nova v= orti on povus havar anke: *gravitala=3D gravifique [F] = sub-*graviteso=3Dsubgravit=E9 [F= ] ne-*pez-ant= o=3D apesanteur [F] Danko ad ti qui respondos pri ca temo. Amikala salut= i. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1145 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66279 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 20:28:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2004 20:28:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2004 20:28:02 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200402072025.1e2b; Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:25:30 GMT Send-By: 69.70.116.17 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:25:30 GMT Message-id: <200402072025.1e2b@th00.idoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Rep:[linguo] *graviteso e *pezanto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kara Loik, Me pensas ke la dicionario da De Beaufront fakte ne donas tradu= kuro por la ciencala senco di "gravit=E9", ma nur por la stando di to quo e= sas grava (F: grave, pesant, s=E9rieux), exemple : situeso grava, la graves= o di situeso. Do la ciencala vorto por "F : gravit=E9, pesanteur" (ti qui = definas la sama kozo, se me ne eroras) esus 'pezado' (quo esas la koncepto = quo relatas la pezi). "La loi de la pesanteur" tradukesas segun me per 'la = pezado-lego' o 'la lego di pezado'. Ni ne bezonas nova vorto por "gravit=E9= , pesanteur". Pluse 'graviteso*' ne esas korekta, pro ke ol esus la stando= di to quo esas 'gravita*', qua ne havas senco en Ido. 'Pezanto*' ja havas = altra senco en Ido : to esas homo qua esas pezanta. 'Gravito' devus esar l'= inter-agala forco inter du masi, e lore un maso 'gravitas' relate l'altra m= aso, quale satelito gravitas cirkum Tero. Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT = _____________________________________________________________________ Un m= ot doux =E0 envoyer? Une sortie cin=E9 =E0 organiser? Faites le en temps r= =E9el avec MSN Messenger! C'est gratuit! http://ifrance.com/_reloc/m ___= __________________________________________________________________ Envie de= discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T=E9l=E9charger MSN Messenger http://ww= w.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1=E8re messagerie instantan=E9e de France From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1146 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96932 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2004 21:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2004 21:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2004 21:03:28 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200402072102.3678; Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:02:54 GMT Send-By: 69.70.116.17 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:02:54 GMT Message-id: <200402072102.3678@th00.idoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Multe + adverbo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kar amiki, -1- Kad ulu povas skribar a me qua difero semantikala existas e= n Ido inter la du vorti "multe" e "tre" ? En la Franca, quale en l'Angla ed= en la Germana, on uzas generale "tre" avan adjektivi ed adverbi, dum ke "m= ulte" uzesas avan verbi. Ma la gramatiko Idala permisas l'uzo di "tre" ava= n verbi (exemple : me tre joyas, me tre regretas). Me do ne dicernas difero= ye senco inter "multe" e "tre". Ka la vorto "tre" esas vere utila ? Ka ni = ne povas uzar nur "multe", quale onu facas en l'Italiana ? Exemple : Me m= ulte joyas lernar Ido. Ido esas linguo multe bela, e divenos multe probable= populara linguo internaciona. -2- Me kredar komprenir ke la gramatiko Ida= la permisas la formaco di adverbi de adkektivi, ma anke de substantivi. Ka = lo signifikas ke onu povas uzar du formi por la sama vorto ? Exemple : Ido= -> Ide Idala -> Idale ? Predanko. Amikale (od amike ?), Christophe GAUBE= RT _____________________________________________________________________ = Un mot doux =E0 envoyer? Une sortie cin=E9 =E0 organiser? Faites le en temp= s r=E9el avec MSN Messenger! C'est gratuit! http://ifrance.com/_reloc/m _= ____________________________________________________________________ Envie = de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T=E9l=E9charger MSN Messenger http://= www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1=E8re messagerie instantan=E9e de France From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1147 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28173 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2004 07:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2004 07:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2004 07:13:18 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1879w2L031511 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:39:59 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i1879vpa031508 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:39:58 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:39:57 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200402072025.1e2b@th00.idoo.com> Message-ID: References: <200402072025.1e2b@th00.idoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: Rep:[linguo] *graviteso e *pezanto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara amiki, Ye 2004-02-07 20:25 -0000, Christophe Gaubert skribis: > Me pensas ke la dicionario da De Beaufront fakte ne donas tradukuro por > la ciencala senco di "gravit�", ma nur por la stando di to quo esas > grava (F: grave, pesant, s�rieux), exemple : situeso grava, la graveso > di situeso.[...] En la Angla on darfas uzar "gravity" pri graveso, ma facar lo esas pasable rare. Plu ofte, on uzas altra vorto tale, ed uzas A. "gravity" pri la tirado da la tero vers su. Dyer havas: "the law of g.: la lego di gravitado". Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1148 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1470 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2004 21:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2004 21:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.5) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2004 21:47:54 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i1CLlfsZ024417 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:45:52 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200402121646_MC3-1-6F59-FBD2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.5 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Nova vorti geografiala, por komento X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo di nomi geografiala, populala ed astronomiala, propozata por kons= idero e komento. Multa altra nomi (exemple *Bielorusia) vartas omna traduk= uri. Robert C. ____________ A=3DAngla; F=3DFranca; G=3DGermana; H=3DHispa= na; I=3DItaliana; R=3DRusa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) fluvi= o o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont.=3D(pri) mont= o o montaro *Bielorus.a A: Byelorussian [adj.] F: bi=E9lorusse G: wei=DF= russisch H: bielorruso I: bielorusso R: byelorusskiy *Bielorus.o A: Bye= lorussian [person] F: Bi=E9lorusse G: Wei=DFrusse H: bielorruso I: bielo= russo R: byelorus *Butan / lando ye nordo di India / A: Bhutan F: Bhou= tan G: Bhutan H: Bhut=E1n, Butan I: Bhutan, Butan R: Butan Esp: Butano = *Cheki.a / land-nomo, kontraste a stat-nomo (Cheka Republiko) - difero oft= e ignorata. Simile: Sud-Afrika e Republiko di Sud-Afrika; Chinia e Republik= o Populala di Chinia / A: Czech Republic F: R=E9publique tch=E9que G: Tsc= hechien, Tschechische Republik H: la Rep=FAblica Checa I: Repubblica c=E8c= a R: Cheshkaya Respublika Esp: C^eh^io, C^eh^ujo, C^eh^a Respubliko *Ege= .a / pri la maro e la insuli: *Egea maro, *Egea insuli / A: Aegean [sea, = islands] F: =C9g=E9e [mer], de la mer =C9g=E9e [=EEles] G: =E4g=E4isch H= : egeo I: egeo R: egeyskiy Esp: Egea *Jupiter.o / (1) deo; (2) planeto = / A: Jupiter [myth.; planet] F: Jupiter [dieu; plan=E8te] G: Jupiter [Go= tt, Planet] H: J=FApiter [dios; planeta] I: Giove [mitol.; astr.] R: Yup= iter Esp: Jupitero [dio; planedo] *Kazakstan / lando di central Azia / = A: Kazakhstan, Kazakstan F: Kazakhstan G: Kasachstan H: Kazajst=E1n I: K= azakistan R: Kazakhstan Esp: Kazah^ujo, Kazah^io *Kopt.a / pri populo a= nciena di Egiptia e lia linguo / A: Coptic F: copte G: koptisch H: copto= I: copto R: koptskiy Esp: Kopta *Kopt.o / homo *Kopta / A: Copt [pers= on] F: Copte G: Kopte H: copto I: copto R: kopt Esp: Kopto *Krime.a = / peninsulo di suda *Ukraina / A: Crimea F: Crim=E9e G: Krim H: Crimea = I: Crimea R: Krjm Esp: Krimeo *Kroat.a A: Croat [adj.] F: croate G: kr= oatisch H: croata I: croato R: khorvatskiy Esp: Kroata *Kroat.o A: Cro= at [person] F: Croate G: Kroate H: croata I: croato R: khorvat Esp: Kr= oato *Maur.a / pri populo di norda Afrika, qua longe okupis Hispania / A= : Moorish F: maure, more G: maurisch H: moro I: moresco R: mavritanskiy= Esp: Mau`ra *Maur.o / homo *Maura. Propozo en Progreso 326,p16 / A: Moo= r F: Maure, More G: Maure H: moro I: moro [della storia] R: mavr Esp:= Mau`ro *Nil [fl.] / fluvio afrikana. James Chandler: "Me preferas *Nil/o= ". Frank Kasper: "Nil" / A: Nile F: Nil [fleuve] G: Nil H: Nilo I: Nilo= R: Nil Esp: Nilo *Pakistan A: Pakistan F: Pakistan G: Pakistan H: Pa= kist=E1n, Paquist=E1n I: Pakistan R: Pakistan Esp: Pakistano *Papu.a / = lando qua esas duimo di Nova Guinea ed apuda insuli. Tale *Papuana, *Papuan= o / A: Papua F: Papouasie G: Papua H: Papuasia I: Papuasia R: Papua Es= p: Papu-lando *Papua-Nov.a-Guine.a / stato kombinanta olima Britaniana (S= -E) Nova Guinea (pose nomata *Papua) e GGermana (N-E) Nova Guinea (pose noma= ta Nova Guinea) / A: Papua New Guinea F: Papouasie-Nouvelle-Guin=E9e G: P= apua-Neuguinea H: Pap=FAa y Nueva Guinea, Nueva Guinea Pap=FAa I: Papua N= uova Guinea R: Papua Novaya Gvineniya Esp: Novgvinea-lando *Salvador / l= ando di Amerika centrala. James Chandler: "Me preferus *Salvador e *Singapu= r". Frank Kasper: "me propozus "Salvadoria" segun la reguli nomizar landi e= n Ido". Tamen videz KGD, p24-27 / A: El Salvador F: Salvador G: El Salva= dor H: El Salvador I: El Salvador, Il Salvador R: Salvador Esp: Salvador= o *Saracen.o / sorto di Arabo historiala. Ja existas "saraceno" (planto);= esas plura tala nomi: Kuba, Parto, Trogo, Trako e.c. / A: Saracen F: Sar= rasin G: Sarazene, Sarazenin H: sarraceno I: saraceno R: saracin Esp: S= araceno *Serb.a / pri populo qua migris a *Balkania en la 7ma yarcento / = A: Serb [adj.] F: serbe G: serbisch H: serbio, servio I: ? serbo [della= Serbia, dei serbi] R: syerbskiy Esp: Serba *Serb.o / homo *Serba / A: = Serb [n.] F: Serbe G: Serbe H: serbio, servio I: serbo [persona] R: sye= rb Esp: Serbo *Sinai / peninsulo, parto di o protektata da Egiptia / A: = Sinai F: Sina=EF G: Sinai H: Sina=ED I: Sinai R: Sinai Esp: Sinajo *S= ingapur A: Singapore F: Singapour G: Singapur H: Singapur I: Singapore = R: Sinkhapur Esp: Singapuro *Slovak.a A: Slovak [adj.] F: slovaque G:= slowakisch H: eslovaco I: slovacco R: slovakskiy Esp: Slovaka *Sloven.= a A: Slovene [adj.] F: slov=E8ne G: slowenisch H: esloveno I: sloveno = R: slovenskiy Esp: Slovena *Tahiti / tale "Tahiti-ana" (ne "Tahit-i" e "= Tahit-ana"). Frank Kasper: "Tahitia" / A: Tahiti F: Tahiti G: Tahiti H: = Tahit=ED I: Tahiti R: Taiti Esp: Tahitio *Tamil.a / pri populo e lingu= o di suda India, e di qua parto migris a Ceylon / A: Tamil F: tamoul, tam= il G: tamilisch H: tamil I: tamilico; [sos.] tamil R: tamiylskiy Esp: Ta= mila *Teuton.a / pri populo anciena / A: Teutonic [of the ancient Teuton= s] F: teutonique [hist.] G: teutonisch H: teut=F3nico I: teutonico R: t= yevtonskiy Esp: Teu`tona *Turkmenistan / tamen ja existas "Turkomano" (n= e "Turkmeno") / A: Turkmenistan F: Turkm=E9nistan G: Turkmenistan, Turkme= nien H: Turkmenist=E1n I: Turkmenistan R: Turkmyenistan Esp: Turkmenujo,= Turkmenio *Ukrain.a od Ukraini.a? / tale *Ukrainana. James Chandler: "De= vas finar per -ia quale altra landonomi: *Ukraini/a, -an/a". Frank Kasper: = "Ukrainia" Vlado: "Ukraina, Ukrainana" / A: Ukraine F: Ukraine G: Ukrain= e H: Ucrania I: Ucraina R: Ukraina Esp: Ukrajno, Ukrainio, -ujo *Uzbek.= a / pri populo, c. du triimi dil personi di *Uzbekistan / A: Uzbek [adj.]= F: ouzbek G: usbekisch H: uzbeko I: usbeco R: uzbyekskiy Esp: Uzbeka = *Uzbek.o / homo *Uzbeka / A: Uzbek [person] F: Ouzbek G: Usbeke H: uzb= eko I: usbeco R: uzbyek Esp: Uzbeko *Uzbekistan / lando di central Azi= a / A: Uzbekistan F: Ouzb=E9kistan G: Usbekistan H: Uzbekist=E1n I: Uzb= echistan R: Uzbyekistan Esp: Uzbekujo, Uzbekio *Vatikan.o / urbo e stato= en Italia / A: Vatican [city, state] F: Vatican [cit=E9, =E9tat] G: Vat= ikan, Vatikanstadt H: Vaticano [ciudad] I: Vaticano [citt=E0] R: Vatikan = Esp: Vatikano *Vietnam A: Vietnam, Viet-Nam F: Vi=EAt-nam, Vietnam G: Vi= etnam H: Vietnam I: Vietnam R: V"etnam Esp: Vjet-Namo, Vjetnamio *Volg.= a [fl.] / fluvio, la maxim longa di Europa / A: Volga F: (la) Volga G: W= olga H: Volga I: Volga R: Volga Esp: Volgo *Yidish.a / pri linguo olim= a di Judi *Ashkenaza / A: Yiddish F: yiddish G: jiddisch H: [sus.] yiddi= sh I: [sos.] yiddish R: evreyskiy Esp: Jida From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1149 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22121 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2004 02:09:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2004 02:09:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2004 02:09:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.160] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2004 02:09:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:09:46 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 793 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.84 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: re landonomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert ed amiki, Por angloparolanti, la korekta finalo por landnomi segun la dicionario Ido-angla (da Dyer) es konfundiganta.. Ye p.114 la lando es Franc-ia, e simile German-ia (p.123), ed Angl-ia (p.18). Ma en la suplemento di geografiala nomi ni havas Franci-a (p.404), Germani-a, (p.404) ed Angli-a (p.403).. Do, quale James Chandler mencionas, la land-nomo semblas havar finalo di "-ia ", pos la radiko (segun la korpo di la Dyer dicionario). En la KGD da de Beaufront, ni ne lektas exakta regulo, ma ye p.26 ni vidas ke la habitanto facesas per la supreso di la finalo "a" (di landnomo) e l'adjunto di "-an-" Konseque ni inferas ke la radiko esas, exemple, Franci-, Germani- ed Angli-. Ka la landnomo es Ukrainia e la habitanti Ukrainiani? Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1150 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41751 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2004 21:03:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2004 21:03:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2004 21:03:59 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.11) id i1FL3w1b001273 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:03:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:01:06 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200402151602_MC3-1-6FEF-5B99@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.8 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] re landonomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Richard, Me opinionas ke la impreso, quan Dyer donas ulaloke en lua vortolibri, ke existas dezinenco "ia" en "Anglia", "Francia" e "Germania" produktesis pro la fakto ke il montris diversa vorti e tradukuri en un paragrafo e, quale on facas en multa vortolibri por facar la texto plu konciza, omisis la komuna elemento dil vorti, nam ol esas lektebla ye la komenco dil paragrafo. Esas do probable eroreto regretinda, ke la paragrafo tale skribita indikas ke, exemple, "Anglia" derivesas de "Angl-" per adjunto di "-ia". Tom Lang dicis ke Dyer facis la laboro por la du vortolibri dum pasable poka yari. Autoro di vortolibro di Esperanto, multe min detaloza, dicis ke ol bezonis 7 yari di lua libertempo. Me tote ne astonesas se Dyer facis poka erori. Kontree, me astonesas da la granda laboro quan lu facis. Pri *Ukraina od *Ukrainia, voluntez vidar la listo di nomi geografiala quan me sendis recente al forumo. On darfas ofrar opiniono. Quale Esperantisti deskovris tre longe ante nun, nula sistemo por landnomi esas generale aplikebla, ecepte se on volas havar linguo multe min "naturala" mem kam Esperanto. Do, ula landnomi en Ido finas per "lando" (exemple Nederlando), uli per "i" (Filipini), uli per "ia" (Francia), e cetere. La landnomi finanta per "ia" esas (generale o sempre) Latina, Tamen multa landi ne havas Latina nomi. Robert C. _______________ >Kara Robert ed amiki, Por angloparolanti, la korekta finalo por landnomi segun la dicionario Ido-angla (da Dyer) es konfundiganta.. Ye p.114 la lando es Franc-ia, e simile German-ia (p.123), ed Angl-ia (p.18). Ma en la suplemento di geografiala nomi ni havas Franci-a (p.404), Germani-a, (p.404) ed Angli-a (p.403).. Do, quale James Chandler mencionas, la land-nomo semblas havar finalo di "-ia ", pos la radiko (segun la korpo di la Dyer dicionario). En la KGD da de Beaufront, ni ne lektas exakta regulo, ma ye p.26 ni vidas ke la habitanto facesas per la supreso di la finalo "a" (di landnomo) e l'adjunto di "-an-" Konseque ni inferas ke la radiko esas, exemple, Franci-, Germani- ed Angli-. Ka la landnomo es Ukrainia e la habitanti Ukrainiani? Amikale, Richard Stevenson. < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1151 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59940 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2004 02:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2004 02:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2004 02:06:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2004 02:06:16 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:06:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200402151602_MC3-1-6FEF-5B99@compuserve.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2896 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Re: [linguo] re landonomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert, Me grande prizas vua esforci pri la listo di land-nomi ed alt= ra geografala nomi, e dankas vu por la komenti pos mea questiono. Evident= e la "sufixo" =96ia, por land-nomo esis konfundiganta a certena samid= eani (ed a me!) ma segun la KGD, on inferas ke por moderna nomi, la radiko= inkluzas "i-", do Bolivi-a e Bolivi-ano. Me kredas ke olim autoro skribis= pri L.H.Dyer e forsan ta artiklo meritas riaparo en "Progreso". Klare ni = bezonas oficala decido pri Ukraina/ia, e por me, Ukrania semblas apta. Amik= ale, Richard. --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "R.B. Carnaghan" <10002= 4.1005@c...> wrote: > Kara Richard, > > Me opinionas ke la impreso, quan = Dyer donas ulaloke en lua vortolibri, ke > existas dezinenco "ia" en "Angl= ia", "Francia" e "Germania" produktesis pro > la fakto ke il montris diver= sa vorti e tradukuri en un paragrafo e, quale > on facas en multa vortolib= ri por facar la texto plu konciza, omisis la > komuna elemento dil vorti, = nam ol esas lektebla ye la komenco dil > paragrafo. Esas do probable eroret= o regretinda, ke la paragrafo tale > skribita indikas ke, exemple, "Anglia= " derivesas de "Angl-" per adjunto di > "-ia". > > Tom Lang dicis ke Dyer= facis la laboro por la du vortolibri dum pasable > poka yari. Autoro di v= ortolibro di Esperanto, multe min detaloza, dicis ke > ol bezonis 7 yari d= i lua libertempo. Me tote ne astonesas se Dyer facis > poka erori. Kontree= , me astonesas da la granda laboro quan lu facis. > > Pri *Ukraina od *Uk= rainia, voluntez vidar la listo di nomi geografiala quan > me sendis recen= te al forumo. On darfas ofrar opiniono. > > Quale Esperantisti deskovris t= re longe ante nun, nula sistemo por landnomi > esas generale aplikebla, ec= epte se on volas havar linguo multe min > "naturala" mem kam Esperanto. Do,= ula landnomi en Ido finas per "lando" > (exemple Nederlando), uli per "i"= (Filipini), uli per "ia" (Francia), e > cetere. La landnomi finanta per "= ia" esas (generale o sempre) Latina, Tamen > multa landi ne havas Latina n= omi. > > Robert C. > _______________ > > >Kara Robert ed amiki, > Por ang= loparolanti, la korekta finalo por landnomi segun la > dicionario Ido-angl= a (da Dyer) es konfundiganta.. Ye p.114 la lando > es Franc-ia, e simile= German-ia (p.123), ed Angl-ia (p.18). Ma en la > suplemento di geografia= la nomi ni havas Franci-a (p.404), Germani- a, > (p.404) ed Angli-a (p.403= ).. Do, quale James Chandler mencionas, la > land-nomo semblas havar fin= alo di "-ia ", pos la radiko (segun la > korpo di la Dyer dicionario). > E= n la KGD da de Beaufront, ni ne lektas exakta regulo, ma ye p.26 ni > vid= as ke la habitanto facesas per la supreso di la finalo "a" (di > landnomo)= e l'adjunto di "-an-" Konseque ni inferas ke la radiko > esas, exemple, F= ranci-, Germani- ed Angli-. Ka la landnomo es > Ukrainia e la habitanti Uk= rainiani? > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1152 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9292 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2004 04:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2004 04:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2004 04:24:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2004 04:24:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:24:39 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1658 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: re komputorala vorti C-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Loic, Me prizas ula diskuto por ke Ido balde atingez moderna vortaro. (1) La du vorti "kliko" e "klikto" subisas konfundigeso. Segun la dicionario Ido/Angla da Dyer: kliko = A: "pawl" t.e. aparato qua per resorto, impedas la retro- movado di axo. Exemple en axo di la dopa roto di biciklo. (me ne savas la franca vorto). kliktar = A: "to click", facar subita kurta sono. Evidente ni uzas "klikto" por la sono o la presado di butono sur *muso. Interesante, certena bicikli facas "klikto" sono pro "kliko" en la dopa roto! La verbo "klikar" ne existas, quankam ni havas "klikizar". Forsan franca ed angla montras difero hike. (2) Vua sugesti pri "kodo e derivuri es tre utila. Ni devas konservar kodexo e *kodo aparte. (3) Segun Dyer, komandar = guvernar navo o armeo ed "aplikesas a l'imperado militala o navala, do extreme severa ed absoluta, qua supresas omna responsiveso che l'imperati."(!) Tamen "komando" similesas la *komputorala vorto (en angla) se ni povas moligar la supera defino! (4) Vua sugesti pri "configuration"es valoroza. Me ne donis apta vorto do vua expliko di la diversa senci es bona bazo di diskuto. (5) (a) A; "folder" = dokumentaro. Semblas saja. Tamen ni bezonas profunda diskuto pri la vorti: A: file; document; data; software; shareware; root; report; field; record; database; spreadsheet. (b) A: `directory" en certena *komputori montras indexo di dokumenti. ed la Ido vorto "repertorio" ja havas ta senco. (6) La vorto "perifalo" (A: "peripheral") ne tote donas la funciono (emo en Ido). En altra e-posto me sugestas "konektajo". Tala aparato es selektebla, exemple *imprimoro o *skanoro. Amikale, Richard. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1153 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1172 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2004 04:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2004 04:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2004 04:36:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.161] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2004 04:36:03 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:36:01 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1952 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.70 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Sugesti por *komputorala vorti (3) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 SUGESTI POR IDO *KOMPUTORALA VORTI (3) La sequanta termini ja existas en Ido, ma per plulargigar di la senco, havas uzado en *komputori: *analizar. A: analyse, parse. Separar *datumi a parti p.e. kande datumi en *datumbazo divenas aranjita a kolumni en *kalkulo- tabelo. *deskargar. Transferar omna kontenaji di dokumento ad *imprimoro, *monitoro o disko. A: dump. (Me sugestas *ekkargar = A: upload). *exter serio. A: out of range. Referar a numero di registro en *datumbazo quan es tro granda o mikra. *exterfluo. A:overflow. (1) Kande datumi es tro granda por disponebla spaco qua on permisas. (2) Nombri en kalkulo qua ecesas la memoro. *feldo (di *datumbazo) = ube on pozas singla tipo di informo quale adreso o telefon-nombro. (Strikte, "feldo" es termino ek fiziko, ma hike es plu apta kam "agro"!) *formatigar (disko). Pozar refero-punti sur disko por ke on facile konservez o riganez *datumi. *ikono. Mikra imajo qua permisas la selekto per muso di programo, dokumento, ago, edc. *insertar. Pozar dokumento en altra. A: paste *kargar. Adportar programo o *datumi a la chefa memoro di *komputor de disko od interreto. (A: load.). On darfas adjuntar prefixo "en-", "ek-" o "des-*. donar chanjo di senco. *konektaji. Aparati qua es neesenca a la funciono di *komputoro quale Imprimoro o *skanoro ma on povas uzar tempope. A: peripheral. *originala aranjo = formato di mashino se ne existas altra informi. A: default. *paneo. La *komputoro tote ne funcionas, (vorto de automoblismo). A: crash. *riordinar (disko). Chanjar disk-programo por ke mikra parti nun vicinesez. A: to defragment. *rondiro. Instrukti qui, se on deziras, exekutesas, ofte plufoye. A: loop. *selekto. A:option. *tondar. La forporto di nedezirita parti di pikturo, desegnuro od altra *grafiko. A: to crop. *traco (sur disko), Un ek la samcentra cirkli ube on konservas *datumi. A: track. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1154 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1478 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2004 15:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2004 15:58:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2004 15:58:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 144 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2004 15:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Feb 2004 15:58:44 -0000 Message-ID: <001401c3f56f$4b281980$886bdc51@landloic> To: Cc: "idolisto" Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:01:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: *komputorala vorti C-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Richard, Aktuale, segun la Franca-Ido e Angla-Ido dicionarii: pawl [= A],cliquet [F]: kliko Pluse segun la Franca-Ido dicionario: klikto =3D cli= quetis [F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) kliktar =3D cliq= ueter [F] (facar klikto) Semblas a me ke en Angla existas unike la singla = verbo "to click" por tradukar "cliqueter [F] " e "cliquer [F]". To esas = pro quo vu propozas clik[A] =3D klikto (ne kliko) . Ma en Franca existas l= a du onomatopei "clic" e "clac" qua exprimas klako e la anciena verbo "cli= quer" qua signifikas facar ca bruiso. To esas pro quo en Franca on uzas l'= expreso "cliquez sur l'ic=F4ne" (to signifikas: selektar l'ikono kun la mus= o e facar "clic" presante la butono di *muso), ma on ne dicas "cliquetez su= r l'ic=F4ne". On dicas anke "s=E9lectionner cette option par un clic de la = souris" Lore me propozas : - adoptar la nova vorto *klikar =3D cliquer [F]= (qua esas diferanta de "cliqueter [F]"). - adoptar la nova defino kliko=3D= clique, clic [F] - adoptar la nova defino klikaro=3D cliquetis[F] (ensembl= o de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) - konservar la defino kliktar =3D cl= iqueter [F] (facar klikaro) - adoptar la nova defino klikto=3D pawl[A],cliq= uet [F] Do fine on povus havar: click[A], clic[F], klako [Esperanto] =3D = kliko [Ido] to click [A], cliquer[F], klaki[Esperanto] =3D *klikar [Ido] = cliquer sur [F], alklaki[Esperanto] =3D *klikar ad od *adklikar [Ido] Plus= e forsan en Ido on povus havar anke la du onomatopei: klik! e klak! Amikal= e Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1155 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71125 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2004 21:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2004 21:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.28) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2004 21:03:43 -0000 Received: from azalia ([24.132.24.215]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040217210341.EBUO28898.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:03:41 +0100 Message-ID: <01c801c3f599$a03c1780$d7188418@azalia> To: Cc: "idolisto" References: <001401c3f56f$4b281980$886bdc51@landloic> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:04:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.28 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] *komputorala vorti C-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Loic, "Kliko" ja existas e havas diferanta signifiko: - peco movebla quan sublevas omna dento di ingrano-roto kande ica turnas ica-sinsa,...edc. (Pesch) Tamen, me pensas ke esos plu simpla skribar: presar (presez l' imajo, presez la butono) Od, igar la verbo "kliktar" tam transitiva kam netransitiva (kad ergativa?). Koncernante l' onomatopei, me kredas ke ti ja povas esar uzata por skribe 'audigar' sono: "me audas klikti: klik, klik, klik." Edc. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Kara Richard, Aktuale, segun la Franca-Ido e Angla-Ido dicionarii: pawl [A],cliquet [F]: kliko Pluse segun la Franca-Ido dicionario: klikto = cliquetis [F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) kliktar = cliqueter [F] (facar klikto) Semblas a me ke en Angla existas unike la singla verbo "to click" por tradukar "cliqueter [F] " e "cliquer [F]". To esas pro quo vu propozas clik[A] = klikto (ne kliko) . Ma en Franca existas la du onomatopei "clic" e "clac" qua exprimas klako e la anciena verbo "cliquer" qua signifikas facar ca bruiso. To esas pro quo en Franca on uzas l'expreso "cliquez sur l'ic�ne" (to signifikas: selektar l'ikono kun la muso e facar "clic" presante la butono di *muso), ma on ne dicas "cliquetez sur l'ic�ne". On dicas anke "s�lectionner cette option par un clic de la souris" Lore me propozas : - adoptar la nova vorto *klikar = cliquer [F] (qua esas diferanta de "cliqueter [F]"). - adoptar la nova defino kliko= clique, clic [F] - adoptar la nova defino klikaro= cliquetis[F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) - konservar la defino kliktar = cliqueter [F] (facar klikaro) - adoptar la nova defino klikto= pawl[A],cliquet [F] Do fine on povus havar: click[A], clic[F], klako [Esperanto] = kliko [Ido] to click [A], cliquer[F], klaki[Esperanto] = *klikar [Ido] cliquer sur [F], alklaki[Esperanto] = *klikar ad od *adklikar [Ido] Pluse forsan en Ido on povus havar anke la du onomatopei: klik! e klak! Amikale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1156 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73614 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2004 02:06:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2004 02:06:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.101) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2004 02:06:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2004 02:06:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:06:15 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 848 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.101 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: re kliko e klikto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Loic, Danko por la franca tradukuri di "kliko" e "klikto". Evidente kande on facis l'originala vortaro d'Ido, la franca ed altra Romana lingui esis la fonto. Me opinionas ke "kliko" esis de F: cliquet, kun muta "t" ma "kliktar" esis de F: cliqueter, kun audebla "t". Nuntempe ni havas "clic" en franca por la presado di butono di *muso. Posible anciena *komputori reale froduktis "clic" sono. ma hodie li esas silencatra. La "clic" o "click" es la ago ne la sono. Tamen, quankam vu sugestas nova vorti, me sentas ke se vorto ja existas en Ido, ni bezonas tre forta motivo por chanjo. Semblas mikra problemo en Ido uzar "klikto" por "clic" o "click" ed inkluzar la sono "t". Konjekteble l'interjectiono qua ja existas en Ido, "krik-krak!" es plu vasta kam *klik-klak! pro ke l'unesma signifikas laceruro o ruptado. Amikale, Richard. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1157 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12952 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2004 20:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2004 20:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ae.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.7) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2004 20:59:18 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i1JKxH6P026006 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:59:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:58:15 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200402191559_MC3-1-70DD-6D38@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.7 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Nomi geografiala Idala-Germana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen ankorfoye listo di nomi geografiala Ido-Germana, sen diversa erori qui = trovesis en la antea, unesma listo. Esis diversa erori (mea), nun korektig= ita, ed ancienaji Germana (en anciena vortolibro), nun modernigita. Multa = danki a Heidi Neussner pro elua bona helpo pri korektigi. Robert C. ______= _______ Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, = gulfo, bayo o lago mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro Abisini.a : Abessinien Ab= isini.an.o : Abessinier Acor.i : Azoren Afgan.o : Afghane Afganistan : Afgh= anistan Afrik.a : Afrika Afrik.an.o : Afrikaner Akadi.a : Akadien Akadi.an.= o : Akadier Akay.a : Achaja Akay.an.o : Achajer Alask.a : Alaska Albani.a := Albanien Albani.an.a : albanisch Albani.an.o : Albanier Aleut.i : Al=EBute= n Algarv.o : Algarbien Aljer : Algier [Stadt] Aljer.an.o : Bewohner der Sta= dt Algier Aljeri.a : Algerien Aljeri.an.a : algerisch Aljeri.an.o : Algerie= r Alp.i [mont.] : Alpen Alzaci.a : Elsass Alzaci.an.o : Els=E4sser Amerik.a= : Amerika Amhar.a : Amhara Anam : Annam Anam.an.o : Annamite Anatoli.a : A= natolien And.i [mont.] : Anden Andaluzi.a : Andalusien Andaluzi.an.o : Anda= lusier Andor.a : Andorra Angl.a : englisch Angl.o : Engl=E4nder Angli.a : E= ngland Angol.a : Angola Anhalt : Anhalt Antil.i : Antillen Apenin.i [mont.]= : Apennin(en) Apuli.a : Apulien Aquitan.o : Aquitanier Aquitani.a : Aquita= nien Arab.a : arabisch Arab.o : Araber Arabi.a : Arabien Aragon : Aragonien= Aragon.an.o : Aragonier Arame.a : =C4ram=E4a Arame.an.a : aram=E4isch Aram= e.an.o : Aram=E4er Argolid.o : Argolis Argovi.a : Aargau Arjentini.a : Arge= ntinien Arjentini.an.a : argentinisch Arjentini.an.o : Argentinier Arkadi.a= : Arkadien Arkadi.an.o : Arkadier Armeni.a : Armenien Armeni.an.a : armeni= sch Armeni.an.o : Armenier Arverni.a : Auvergne Aryan.a : arisch Aryan.o : = Arier Asiri.a : Assyrien Asiri.an.o : Assyrer, Assyrier Asturi.a : Asturien= Asturi.an.o : Asturier Atlantik.a [mar.] : atlantisch Atlantik.o [mar.] : = der atlantische Ozean, Atlantik Aulid.o : Aulis Australazi.a : Australien u= nd Ozeanien Australi.a : Australien Australi.an.o : Australier Austri.a : = =D6sterreich Austri.an.o : =D6sterreicher Avan-Azi.a : Kleinasien Azerbaija= n : Aserbaidschan Azi.a : Asien Azi.an.o : Asiate Badeni.a : Baden [Grosshe= rzogtum] Badeni.an.o : Badener Baham.a : Bahamainseln, Bahamas Baktri.a : B= aktrien Balear.i : Balearen Bangladesh : Bangladesch, Bangladesh, Bangla De= sh Barbados : Barbados Bavari.a : Bayern Bavari.an.o : Bayer Beduin.o : Bed= uine (W=FCstenaraber) Belg.o : Belgier Belgi.a : Belgien Belize : Belize Be= ludj.o : Belutsche Beludjistan : Belutschistan Bengal : Bengalen Benin : Be= nin Beoti.a : B=F6otien Beoti.an.o : B=F6otier Berber.o : Berber Berberi.a = : Berberei Bermud.i : Bermudas [Inseln] Besarabi.a : Bessarabien Betlehem := Bethlemen Biskay.a : Biskaya, Biscaya Bitini.a : Bithynien Blank.a-Mont.o = [mont.] : Mont-Blanc Bohemi.a : B=F6hmen Bohemi.an.o : B=F6hme Bolivi.a : B= olivia Bolivi.an.o : Bolivier, Bolivianer Borne.o : Borneo Bosni.a : Bosnie= n Bosni.an.o : Bosnier Botswan.a : Botsuana, [CH] Botswana Brabant : Braban= t Brabant.an.o : Brabanter Brazili.a : Brasilien Brazili.an.o : Brasilianer= Breton.o : Bretone Bretoni.a : (die) Bretagne Britan.o : Brite [Alt. Volk]= Britani.a : Britannien, Grossbritannien Britani.an.a : britisch Britani.an= .o : Brite Brunei : Brunei, Brunei Darussalam Brunsvig : Braunschweig Bukha= ri.a : Bucharei Bulgari.a : Bulgarien Bulgari.an.o : Bulgare Bur.o : Bure B= urgund.o : Burgunder [alt] Burgundi.a : Burgund Burgundi.an.o : Burgunder [= modern] Burm.a : Birma, Burma Burm.an.o : Birmane, Burmese Burundi : Burund= i Bushman.o : Buschmann Ceylon : Ceylon Champani.a : Champagne Champani.an.= o : Einwohner der Champagne Chek.o : Tscheche Chekoslovaki.a : die Tschecho= slowakei Chili : Chile Chili.an.o : Chilene Chini.a : China Chini.an.a : ch= inesisch Chini.an.o : Chinese Chipr.o : Zypern Chipr.an.o : Zyprer, Zypriot= cigan.o : Zigeuner Cilici.a : Cilicien Cirkasi.a : Zirkassien Cirkasi.an.o= : Zirkassier, Tscherkesse Daci.a : Dacien Dalmati.a : Dalmatien Dalmati.an= .o : Dalmatier Dan.o : D=E4ne Dani.a : D=E4nemark Danubi.o [fl.] : Donau Da= rdanel.i [mar.] : Dardanellen [Meerenge] Doming.a Republik.o : Dominikanisc= he Republik Doming.an.o : Dominikaner Dominik.a : Dominica [Insel] Dori.an.= a : dorisch [Rasse, Dialekt, Tonart] Egad.i : =C4gaden Egipti.a : =C4gypten= Egipti.an.o : =C4gypter Eoli.a : =C4olien Eoli.an.a : =E4olisch [Rasse, Di= alekt, Tonart] Epir.o : Epirus Epir.an.o : Epirote Equador : Ecuador Eritre= .a : Eritrea, Erythr=E4a Eskimo.o : Eskimo Estoni.a : Estland Estoni.an.a := estnisch Estoni.an.o : Estl=E4nder, Este Etiopi.a : =C4thiopien Etiopi.an.= a : =E4thiopisch Etiopi.an.o : =C4thiopier Etoli.a : =C4tolien Etoli.an.o := =C4tolier Etruri.a : Etrurien Etruri.an.o : Etrurier Europ.a : Europa Euro= p.an.a : europ=E4isch Europ.an.o : Europ=E4er Fair.o-Ter.o : Feuerland Falk= land : Falklandinseln Fenici.a : Ph=F6nizien Fenici.an.o : Ph=F6nizier Fern= andop.o : Fernando Po [Insel] Fidji : Fidschi, Fidschi-Inseln Filipin.i : P= hilippinen Filipin.an.o : Philippiner Finland.o : Finnland Finland.an.a : f= innisch Finland.an.o : Finne Flandr.a : fl=E4misch Flandr.o : Flame Flandri= .a : Flandern Flandri.an.o : Flaml=E4nder, Flam=E4nder, Fl=E4me Focid.o : P= hokis Formoz.a : Formosa Franc.a : franz=F6sisch Franc.o : Franzose Franci.= a : Frankreich Frankoni.a : Franken Frankoni.an.o : Franke Frigi.a : Phrygi= en Frigi.an.o : Phrygier Frizi.a : Friesland Frizi.an.o : Friese Gabon : Ga= bun Galati.a : Galatien [=F6sterr. Kronland] Galici.a : Galizien [Polen & U= kraine] Galici.an.o : Galizier Galile.a : Galil=E4a Galile.an.o : Galil=E4e= r Galisi.a : Galizien [in Spanien] Galisi.an.o : Galizier Gall.o : Gallier = Galli.a : Gallien Gaskon.o : Gascogner Gaskoni.a : Gascogne Gaskoni.an.o : = Bewohner der Gascogne, Gascogner Genov.a : Genua German.o : Deutscher Germa= ni.a : Deutschland Got.a : gotisch Got.o : Gote Goti.a : Gotland Grek.a : g= riechisch Grek.o : Grieche Greki.a : Griechenland Grenland.o : Gr=F6nland G= renland.an.o : Gr=F6nl=E4nder Gruzi.a : Georgien, Gruzinien Guadelup.a : Gu= adelupe Guatemal.a : Guatemala Guayan.a : Guayana Guine.a : Guinea Haiti : = Haiti Havayi : Hawa=EF Hebre.a : hebr=E4isch [Sprache] Hebre.o : Hebr=E4er = Hebrid.i : Hebriden Helen.o : Hellene Helvet.o : Helvetier Helveti.a : Helv= etien Herzegovin.a : Herzegowina Hesi.a : Hessen Hesi.an.o : Hesse Himalay.= a [mont.] : Himalaya Hispan.o : Spanier Hispani.a : Spanien Holand.o : Holl= and Holand.an.o : Holl=E4nder Honduras : Honduras Hungari.a : Ungarn Hungar= i.an.o : Ungar Iberi.a : Iberische Halbinsel, Iberien Ierusalem : Jerusalem= Indi.a : Indien Indi.an.o : Inder Indonezi.a : Indonesien Ioni.a : Ionien = Ioni.an.a : ionisch [Rasse, Dial., Tonart, Philos.] Ioni.an.o : Ionier Irak= : (der) Irak Iran : (der) Iran Irland.o : Irland Irland.an.o : Irl=E4nder,= Ire Island.o : Island Island.an.o : Isl=E4nder Israel : Israel Istri.a : I= strien Istri.an.o : Istrier Itali.a : Italien Itali.an.o : Italiener Ivor.a= Riv.o : Elfenbeink=FCste, C=F4te d'Ivoire Izrael.id.o : Israelit Jamaik.a = : Jamaika Japoni.a : Japan Japoni.an.a : japanisch Japoni.an.o : Japaner Ja= v.a : Java Jav.an.o : Javane Jordan [fl.] : Jordan Jordani.a : Jordanien Ju= d.o : Jude Jude.a : Jud=E4a Kab.o di Bon Esper.o : Kap der guten Hoffnung K= ab.land.o : Kapland, Kapkolonie Kabverd.o : Kap Verde, [CH] Kapverden Kafr.= o : Kaffer Kalabri.a : Kalabrien Kalabri.an.o : Kalabrese Kalde.a : Chald= =E4a Kalde.an.o : Chald=E4er Kaliforni.a : Kalifornien Kaliforni.an.o : Kal= ifornier Kambodj.a : Kambodscha Kambodj.an.a : kambodschanisch Kambodj.an.o= : Kambodschaner Kamchatk.a : Kamtschatka Kamerun : Kamerun Kampani.a : Kam= panien Kanaan : Kanaan Kanad.a : Kanada Kanad.an.o : Kanadier Kanal.o [mar.= ] : (der) Kanal, =C4rmelkanal Kanari.i : Kanarische Inseln Kapadoci.a : Kap= padozien Karinti.a : K=E4rnten Karpat.i [mont.] : Karpathen Kashmir : Kasch= mir Kastili.a : Kastilien Kastili.an.o : Kastilier Kataluni.a : Katalonien = Kataluni.an.o : Katalonier Katar : Katar Kaukaz.o [mont.] : Kaukasus Kaukaz= i.a : Kaukasien Kaukazi.an.o : Kaukasier Khiv.a : Chiwa Kolchid.o : Kolchis= Kolumbi.a : Kolumbien Kolumbi.an.o : Kolumbier Konstantinopl.o : Konstanti= nopel Kordilier.i [mont.] : Kordilleren Kore.a : Korea Kore.an.o : Koreaner= Kornwal : Cornwall Korsik.a : Korsika Korsik.an.o : Korse Koshinchini.a : = Kochinchina Koshinchini.an.o : Kochinchinese Kostarik.a : Costa Rica, Kosta= rika Kroati.a : Kroatien Kroati.an.o : Kroate Kub.a : Kuba Kub.an.o : Kuban= er Kurland.o : Kurland Kuwait : Kuwait Lag.o di Quar Kanton.i [mar.] : Vier= waldst=E4tter See Lagos : Lagos Laos : Laos Lapon.o : Lappe, Lappl=E4nder L= aponi.a : Lappland Latv.a : lettisch Latv.o : Lette Latvi.a : Lettland Liba= n.o : Libanon Liberi.a : Liberia Libi.a : Libyen Libi.an.o : Libyer Lici.a = : Lycien Lici.an.o : Lycier Lidi.a : Lydien Lidi.an.o : Lydier Liguri.a : L= igurien Liguri.an.o : Ligurier Likaoni.a : Lykaonien Lituani.a : Litauen Li= tuani.an.o : Litauer Livoni.a : Livland Livoni.an.o : Livl=E4nder Lombardi.= a : Lombardei Lombardi.an.o : Lombard London : London Luxemburg : Luxemburg= [Stadt] Luxemburgi.a : Luxemburg [Land] Luxemburgi.an.o : Luxemburger Mace= doni.a : Mazedonien Macedoni.an.o : Mazedonier Madagaskar : Madagaskar Made= ir.a : Madeira Madyar.o : Madjar, Magjar Malawi : Malawi Malay.o : Malaie M= ali : Mali Malt.a : Malta Malt.an.o : Malteser Mandjur.o : Mandschu [Mensch= ] Mandjuri.a : Mandschurei Marian.i : Marianen Marok.o : Marokko Marok.an.o= : Marokkaner Marquesas : Marquesasinseln Mars.o : Mars [Gott; Planet] Mart= inik.a : Martinique Mauric.o : Maritius Mauritani.a : Mauretanien Mayork.a = : Mallorca, Majorka Med.o : Meder Medi.a : Medien Mediterane.a [mar.] : Mit= telmeer- Mediterane.o [mar.] : Mittelmeer, Mittell=E4ndisches Meer Mexik.o = : Mexiko-Stadt, Mexiko [Stadt] Mexiki.a : Mexiko [Land] Mexiki.an.o : Mexik= aner Mezopotami.a : Mesopotamien Minork.a : Minorka Mizi.a : Mysien Moab.id= .o : Moabit Moabi.an.o : Moabiter Moldavi.a : Moldau, Moldawien Moldavi.an.= o : Moldauer, Moldawier Monak.o : Monako Mongol.o : Mongole Mongoli.a : Mon= golei Montenegr.o : Montenegro Montenegr.an.o : Montenegriner Moravi.a : M= =E4hren Moravi.an.o : M=E4hre Mort.int.a Mar.o [mar.] : Totes Meer Mozambik= : Mosambik Nabate.i : Nabat=E4er Namibi.a : Namibia Natal : Natal Navar.a = : Navarra Nazareth : Nazareth Nederland.o : Niederlande Nederland.an.o : Ni= ederl=E4nder Nepal : Nepal Nigeri.a : Nigeria Nigr.a Mar.o [mar.] : Schwarz= es Meer Nikaragu.a : Nicaragua Normand.o : Normanne Normandi.a : Normandie = Norvegi.a : Norwegen Norvegi.an.o : Norweger Nov.a Guine.a : Neuguinea Nov.= a Kaledoni.a : Neukaledonien Nov.a Skoti.a : Neuschottland Nov-Land.o : Neu= fundland Nov-Sud-Wals : Neus=FCdwales Nov-Zeland.o : Neuseeland Nubi.a : Nu= bien Nubi.an.o : Nubier Oceani.a : Ozeanien Oman : Oman Or.a Riv.o : Goldk= =FCste Orkad.i : Orkaden [Inseln] Pacifik.a [mar.] : pazifisch Pacifik.o [m= ar.] : Stiller Ozean, (der) Pazifishe Ozean, (der) Pazifik Paflagoni.a : Pa= phlagonien Palateni.o : Pfalz Palateni.an.o : Pf=E4lzer Palestin.a : Pal=E4= stina Pamfili.a : Pamphylien Panam.a : Panama Panoni.a : Pannonien Paraguay= : Paraguay Paris : Paris Part.o : Parter Parti.a : Parthien Patagoni.a : P= atagonien Patagoni.an.o : Patagonier Pers.o : Perser [alt. Volk] Persi.a : = Persien Persi.an.o : Persier Peru : Peru Peru.an.o : Peruaner Piemont : Pie= mont Piemont.an.o : Piemontese pigme.o : Pygm=E4e; Zwerg, F=E4ustling, Knir= ps [bildl.] Pikardi.a : Pikardie Pirene.i [mont.] : Pyren=E4en Podoli.a : P= odolien Podoli.an.o : Podolier Polinezi.a : Polynesien Polinezi.an.o : Poly= nesier Polon.o : Pole Poloni.a : Polen Pomerani.a : Pommern Pomerani.an.o := Pommer Porto-Rik.o : Porto-Rico Portugal : Portugal Portugal.an.o : Portug= iese Posni.a : Posen Posni.an.o : Posener Principe : Principe [Insel] Prove= nc.o : Provence Provenc.an.o : Provenzale Prusi.a : Preussen Prusi.an.o : P= reusse Quinsland.o : Queensland Quinsland.an.o : Queensl=E4nder Red.a Mar.o= [mar.] : Rotes Meer Reunion : R=E9union [Insel] Rhen.o [fl.] : Rhein Rodez= i.a : Rhodesia Rok.oz.a Mont.i [mont.] : (die) Rocky Mountains Rom.a : Rom = Romanch.a : romantsch, r=E4toromanisch, churwelsch [Sprache] Ruand.a : Ruan= da, [CH] Rwanda Rumani.a : Rum=E4nien Rumani.an.o : Rum=E4ne Rumeli.a : Rum= elien Rumeli.an.o : Rumelier Rus.o : Russe Rusi.a : Russland Sahar.a : Saha= ra Samo.a : Samoa, Samoainseln San-Marino : San Marino Sanskrit.o : Sanskri= t Sant-Helen.a : Sankt Helena Sardini.a : Sardinien Sardini.an.o : Sardinie= r, Sarde Sarmat.o : Sarmate Sarmati.a : Sarmatien Savoy.a : Savoyen Savoy.a= n.o : Savoyarde Saxon.o : Sachse Saxoni.a : Sachsen Sem.id.o : Semite Seneg= al.an.o : Senegalese Serbi.a : Serbien Serbi.an.o : Serbe Siam : Siam Siam.= an.o : Siamese Siberi.a : Sibirien Siberi.an.o : Siberier Sicili.a : Sizili= en Sicili.an.o : Sizilier Sierra Leone : Sierra Leone Silezi.a : Schlesien = Silezi.an.o : Schlesier Siri.a : Syrien Siri.an.o : Syrer Skandinavi.a : Sk= andinavien Skandinavi.an.o : Skandinavier Skit.o : Skythe Skiti.a : Skythie= n Skot.o : Schotte Skoti.a : Schottland Slav.o : Slawe Slavoni.a : Slavonie= n Slovaki.a : Slowakei Sloveni.a : Slowenien Somal.o : Somali, Somalier Som= al.i-land.o : Somalik=FCste Somali.a : Somalia, Somalien Soviet-Union.o : S= owjetunion Sporad.i : Sporaden [Inseln] Stiri.a : Steiermark Stiri.an.o : S= teierm=E4rker Suabi.a : Schwaben Suabi.an.o : Schwabe Sudafrik.a : S=FCdafr= ika Sudan : Sudan Sudan.an.o : Sudaner, -ese Sued.a : schwedisch Sued.o : S= chwede Suedi.a : Schweden Suis.a : schweizerisch Suis.o : Schweizer Suisi.a= : Schweiz Sumatr.a : Sumatra Surinam : Suriname, Surinam Tanzani.a : Tansa= nia Tasmani.a : Tasmanien Tasmani.an.o : Tasmanier Tatar.o : Tatar Tatari.a= : Tatarei Tesali.a : Thessalien Tesali.an.o : Thessalier Tibet : Tibet Tib= et.an.o : Tibetaner Tigre : Tigre Tirol : Tirol Tirol.an.o : Tiroler Togo := Togoland Tonga : Tongainseln Tonkin : Tonkin Tonkin.an.o : Tonkinese Toska= n.o : Toskaner Toskani.a : Toskana Trak.o : Thrazier Traki.a : Thrazien Tra= nsilvan.o : Siebenb=FCrger Transilvani.a : Siebenb=FCrgen Transval : Transv= aal Transval.an.o : Transvaaler Trinidad : Trinidad Tripolit.o : Tripolis [= Land] Tripolit.an.o : Tripolitaner Tunis : Tunis [Stadt] Tunizi.a : Tunesie= n Tunizi.an.o : Tunesier Turingi.a : Th=FCringen Turingi.an.o : Th=FCringer= Turk.o : T=FCrke Turkestan : Turkestan Turkestan.an.o : Turkestanier Turki= .a : T=FCrkei Turkoman.o : Turkmene Ugand.a : Uganda Ural.o [fl.] : Ural [Z= ufluss] Ural.i [mont.] : Ural [Gebirge] Uruguay : Uruguay Us.a : Vereinigte= Staaten von (Nord)Amerika Us.an.o : Amerikaner [der Ver. Staaten] Valaki.a= : Walachei Valaki.an.o : Walache Venezuel.a : Venezuela Venezuel.an.o : Ve= nezolaner Vestfali.a : Westfalen Vestfali.an.o : Westfale Viktori.a : Vikto= ria [Australien] Virgini.a : Virginia [Staat] Voges.i [mont.] : Vogesen Vol= ini.a : Wolhynien Volini.an.o : Wolhynier Wals : Wales Wurtemberg : W=FCrtt= emberg Wurtemberg.an.o : W=FCrttemberger Yemen : (der) Jemen Yugoslavi.a : = Jugoslawien Zaire : Zaire Zambezi [fl.] : Sambesi Zambi.a : Sambia Zanzibar= : Sansibar Zimbabwe : Simbabwe, [CH] Zimbabwe Zulu.o : Zulu Zulu-land.o : = Zululand From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1158 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83444 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2004 19:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2004 19:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2004 19:09:44 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.207] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AuG1t-0005Ka-00; Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:41 +0100 Received: from [212.114.236.176] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1AuG1t-0003wq-00; Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:41 +0100 Message-ID: <002b01c3f7e5$15ae6cf0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Manfred Welper" , "G�nter Schlemminger" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Manfred Magin" , "Janna Reunova" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:09:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.187 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Invito a l'internaciona Ido-renkontro 2004 en Kiev (Ukrainia) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! Nome de la Kievana Ido-grupo me kordialege invitas omna = Idisti e simpatiseri dil linguo internaciona partoprenar a la cayarala inte= rnaciona Ido-renkontro. La renkontro eventos dum la tempo inter la 16esma e= 23esma di julio 2004 en la vakanceyo "Kosmos" proxime a la Ukraina chefurb= o Kiev (Kijiv). En ca urbo dum multa yari agis la famoza Ido-klubo "Amikeso= " kun la prezidero Boris Aaronov. Ante kelka semani en Kiev fondesis mikra = Ido-grupo, qua nun preparas la cayarala Ido-konfero, pos ke la majoritato d= il partoprenanti en la preelekti di propozita loki por la Ido-renkontro 200= 4 votis por Kiev. Do, nia nova gesamideani en Kiev tre joyus salutar multa = Idisti e simpatiseri de diversa landi okazione dil Ido-renkontro 2004 en li= a urbo. Pro ke esis propozita anke aranjar repozala sejorno en Kiev ante o= pos l'Ido-renkontro esas posibla partoprenar en tala sejorno dum la tempo = inter la 09esma e 16esma di julio 2004 en la sama loko, ube pose eventos la= renkontro. Ye la interreta loko http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Ukrainia= /Idorenkontro2004 vi trovas l'invito di nia Kievana gesamideani a la prer= enkontro ed Ido-renkontro ed anunc-folieto. Pro ke partoprenanti de multa = landi exemple de West-Europa bezonas visto por enirar ad Ukrainia, qua nur = esas recevebla che l'Ukraina ambasadeyi, se on prezentas ibe oficala invito= di Ukraina organizuro o privata persono, esas necesa, ke interesata gesami= deani retrosendos la plenigita anunc-formularo a me til maxim tarde la 30es= ma di aprilo 2004. Me lore facos listo kun la necesa informi por l'inviti e= sendos ol a Kiev. Pos retrosendo dil inviti de ibe oli sendesos a la recev= anti, por ke li povus aranjar la visti ankore en justa tempo. La anuncform= ularo esas trovebla che http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Ukrainia/Idorenkon= tro2004/anunco.htm . Do, anke me esperas, ke multa gesamideani montros la = forteso dil Ido-movemento partoprenante en nia internaciona Ido-renkontro e= n Kiev! Kun kordiala e prerenkontrala saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper membr= o dil Direktanta Komitato dil ULI e kunaranjero dil Ido-renkontro 2004 en K= iev (Ukrainia) frank.kasper@ido.li From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1159 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15279 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 09:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2004 09:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 09:47:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 3550 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 09:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 21 Feb 2004 09:47:32 -0000 Message-ID: <006901c3f860$1a717d60$886bdc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" References: Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:50:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] re kliko e klikto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Richard, Danko pro vua respondo pri mea propozo de nova vorto *klikar= =3D cliquer [F]. Me trovas ica defino cliquetis [F], rattling[A] =3D klik= to. Do semblas a me ke l'Angla havas anke du diferanta vorti por tradukar = "clic, clique[F]" e "cliquetis[F]" : clic, clique[F] =3D click [A] ( ago = e sono) cliquetis[F]=3Drattling [A] (sono) Ka la vorto "to rattle" traduka= s bone la franca verbo "cliqueter" ? En franca on dicas : - " le cliquetis = du cliquet" ma ne "le clique (ou clic) du cliquet" - "cliquez sur l'ic=F4n= e" ma ne "cliquetez sur l'ic=F4ne". Itere me opinionas ke Ido bezonas du = diferanta vorti por tradukar "cliqueter[ F]" e "cliquer [F]". Kordiala sa= luti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : richsteven2000 =C0 = : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : mercredi 18 f=E9vrier 2004 03:0= 6 Objet : [linguo] re kliko e klikto Kara Loic, Danko por la franca= tradukuri di "kliko" e "klikto". Evidente kande on facis l'originala vor= taro d'Ido, la franca ed altra Romana lingui esis la fonto. Me opinionas= ke "kliko" esis de F: cliquet, kun muta "t" ma "kliktar" esis de F: cli= queter, kun audebla "t". Nuntempe ni havas "clic" en franca por la pre= sado di butono di *muso. Posible anciena *komputori reale froduktis "cli= c" sono. ma hodie li esas silencatra. La "clic" o "click" es la ago ne l= a sono. Tamen, quankam vu sugestas nova vorti, me sentas ke se vorto ja = existas en Ido, ni bezonas tre forta motivo por chanjo. Semblas mikra = problemo en Ido uzar "klikto" por "clic" o "click" ed inkluzar la sono "= t". Konjekteble l'interjectiono qua ja existas en Ido, "krik-krak!" es = plu vasta kam *klik-klak! pro ke l'unesma signifikas laceruro o ruptado= . Amikale, Richard. ----- Message d'origine ----- De : loic.landai= s@wanadoo.fr =C0 : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : mardi 17 f= =E9vrier 2004 17:01 Objet : [linguo] *komputorala vorti C-D Kara Richa= rd, Aktuale, segun la Franca-Ido e Angla-Ido dicionarii: pawl [A],cliqu= et [F]: kliko Pluse segun la Franca-Ido dicionario: klikto =3D cliquet= is [F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) kliktar =3D clique= ter [F] (facar klikto) Semblas a me ke en Angla existas unike la singla = verbo "to click" por tradukar "cliqueter [F] " e "cliquer [F]". To esa= s pro quo vu propozas clik[A] =3D klikto (ne kliko) . Ma en Franca exist= as la du onomatopei "clic" e "clac" qua exprimas klako e la anciena verbo = "cliquer" qua signifikas facar ca bruiso. To esas pro quo en Franca on u= zas l'expreso "cliquez sur l'ic=F4ne" (to signifikas: selektar l'ikono kun = la muso e facar "clic" presante la butono di *muso), ma on ne dicas "clique= tez sur l'ic=F4ne". On dicas anke "s=E9lectionner cette option par un clic = de la souris" Lore me propozas : - adoptar la nova vorto *klikar =3D c= liquer [F] (qua esas diferanta de "cliqueter [F]"). - adoptar la nova def= ino kliko=3D clique, clic [F] - adoptar la nova defino klikaro=3D cliquet= is[F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) - konservar la defin= o kliktar =3D cliqueter [F] (facar klikaro) - adoptar la nova defino klik= to=3D pawl[A],cliquet [F] Do fine on povus havar: click[A], clic[F], = klako [Esperanto] =3D kliko [Ido] to click [A], cliquer[F], klaki[Esper= anto] =3D *klikar [Ido] cliquer sur [F], alklaki[Esperanto] =3D *klikar a= d od *adklikar [Ido] Pluse forsan en Ido on povus havar anke la du onoma= topei: klik! e klak! Amikale Loik [Non-text portions of this message= have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1160 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64172 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2004 14:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2004 14:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2004 14:39:46 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1LEdfPC008159 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:09:42 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i1LEdeiL008156 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:09:41 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:09:40 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001401c3f56f$4b281980$886bdc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <001401c3f56f$4b281980$886bdc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] *komputorala vorti C-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara Loic, Richard ed altri, Ye 2004-02-17 17:01 +0100, Loic Landais skribis: > Kara Richard, > > Aktuale, segun la Franca-Ido e Angla-Ido dicionarii: pawl [A],cliquet [F]: kliko > Pluse segun la Franca-Ido dicionario: > klikto = cliquetis [F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) > kliktar = cliqueter [F] (facar klikto) > > Semblas a me ke en Angla existas unike la singla verbo "to click" por tradukar "cliqueter [F] " e "cliquer [F]". > To esas pro quo vu propozas clik[A] = klikto (ne kliko) . La verbo "kliktar" signifikas la senci di la Angla verbi quale "to clank", "to clatter", "to jangle", ma anke "to click" (facar sono). La substantivo "kliketo" signifikas la Angla substantivi "a clink", "a click", "a jingle" (ipse la soni). Do on povas inventar la verbo "kliketar". "Jangle" e "jingle", "clank" e "clink", signifikas diferanta qualesi de sono, (1) resonanta, pasable profunda; (2) nule od apene resonanta, pasable alta. La komputorala vorto esas A. "click", qua signifikas la sono di *mus-preso, e tale la ago di *mus-preso. Ta sono esas ne-resonanta e pasable alta. En la Collins Gem / Dictionnaires Le Robert de 1998 me ne trovas F. "cliquer", ma nur F. "cliqueter", qua signifikas ed A. "jangle" di F. "ferraille" (anciena fer-peci), ed A. "jingle" di klefi. Ma hike vu skribas pri > ... la anciena verbo "cliquer" qua signifikas facar ca bruiso. qua (se me komprenas juste) on ri-vivigis por nur komputorala uzo. > To esas pro quo en Franca on uzas l'expreso "cliquez sur l'ic�ne" Plu probable, ol esas la modern A. vorto, prenita itere aden la Franca. To esas pro quo on uzas ol en la Franca, se me ne eroras. > (to signifikas: selektar l'ikono kun la muso e facar "clic" presante > la butono di *muso), ma on ne dicas "cliquetez sur l'ic�ne". On > dicas anke "s�lectionner cette option par un clic de la souris" > Lore [konseque] me propozas : > - adoptar la nova vorto *klikar = cliquer [F] (qua esas diferanta de "cliqueter [F]"). > - adoptar la nova defino kliko= clique, clic [F] > - adoptar la nova defino klikaro= cliquetis[F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) > - konservar la defino kliktar = cliqueter [F] (facar klikaro) > - adoptar la nova defino klikto= pawl[A],cliquet [F] > > Do fine on povus havar: > click[A], clic[F], klako [Esperanto] = kliko [Ido] > to click [A], cliquer[F], klaki[Esperanto] = *klikar [Ido] > cliquer sur [F], alklaki[Esperanto] = *klikar ad od *adklikar [Ido] Lo semblas a me larja chanji por ne-granda avantajo. Ja on havas "kliktar", igar la muso bruisar. "presar", facar la ago pri la mus-butono (e tale, pri la ikono). Semblas a me ke la komputorala vorto esas "presar". On presas la butono od ikono. -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1161 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71823 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2004 22:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2004 22:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2004 22:57:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.186] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2004 22:57:34 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:57:33 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1453 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Plusa pri kliko e klikto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Loic e Michael, Evidente la dicionarii di Franca-Ido ed Angla-Ido montras poka diferi, e la situeso es tempope konfundiganta. Exemple, en l'Angla- Ido dicionario A: rattle = bruisar, kliktigar, ma anke, A: clank, clatter = kliktar. Me kredas ke ni ne bezonas multa nova vorti por *komputado pro ke Ido havas granda vortaro. Quankam A: click e F: clique = klikteto, forsan por *komputorala uzado ni povas uzar la plu kurta "klikto/ez Se "klikto" = un sono, forsan plu longa sono (A; clatter, F: cliqueter) = "kliktado", o mem "kliktaro". Me opinionas ke ni retenus la vorto "kliko", quan, segun la dicionario = A: pawl. F: cliquet. Se on lente movas biciklo, la kliko en la dopa roto, emisas kurta sono, klikteto, nultempe kliktaro (Kliktaro o cliquetis ya signifikas ke la kliko es ruptita!). Me agnoskas ke la vorto quale A: click, F: clique eventas ofte en "komputorala instrukti, ma me sentas ke nova vorto ne es necesa, precipue por ke on kolizionas kun la vorto "kliko". Me sugestas (sen nova vorti): klikto = kurta sono A: "click", F: "clique". (klikteto es kelke tro longa) kliktigar =facar klikto. kliktado = kliktar dum plu longa tempo. kliktaro = desordinata sono A: clatter. F: bruit Forsan la sugesto da Michael ke la uzado di "presez" es plu apta! Klare ni bezonas mikra grupo konsiderar diversa *komputorala termini e sendar ula rekomendi a nia Linguala Sekretario por ke lu balde decidez. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1162 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66031 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 00:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2004 00:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2004 00:47:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 25413 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 00:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Feb 2004 00:46:57 -0000 Message-ID: <001501c3fa70$1593e140$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: <001401c3f56f$4b281980$886bdc51@landloic> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:49:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] *komputorala vorti C-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Michael, > En la Collins Gem / Dictionnaires Le Robert de 1998 me ne = trovas F. "cliquer", ma nur F. "cliqueter", qua signifikas ed A. "jangle" d= i F. "ferraille" (anciena fer-peci), ed A. "jingle" di klefi. La dicionari= o "Lexis Larousse 1975" donas F. "cliqueter" venanta de l'anciena franca v= orto "cliquer" (1230) > Semblas a me ke la komputorala vorto esas "presar"= . On presas la butono od ikono. Me presas la mus-butono por *klikar adsur= la ikono. Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : Michael Talbot-= Wilson =C0 : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Envoy=E9 : samedi 21 f=E9vri= er 2004 15:39 Objet : Re: [linguo] *komputorala vorti C-D Kara Loic, = Richard ed altri, Ye 2004-02-17 17:01 +0100, Loic Landais skribis: > = Kara Richard, > > Aktuale, segun la Franca-Ido e Angla-Ido dicionarii: = pawl [A],cliquet [F]: kliko > Pluse segun la Franca-Ido dicionario: > k= likto =3D cliquetis [F] (ensemblo de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) > = kliktar =3D cliqueter [F] (facar klikto) > > Semblas a me ke en Angla e= xistas unike la singla verbo "to click" por tradukar "cliqueter [F] " e "= cliquer [F]". > To esas pro quo vu propozas clik[A] =3D klikto (ne kliko)= . La verbo "kliktar" signifikas la senci di la Angla verbi quale "to = clank", "to clatter", "to jangle", ma anke "to click" (facar sono). La s= ubstantivo "kliketo" signifikas la Angla substantivi "a clink", "a click"= , "a jingle" (ipse la soni). Do on povas inventar la verbo "kliketar". = "Jangle" e "jingle", "clank" e "clink", signifikas diferanta qualesi de= sono, (1) resonanta, pasable profunda; (2) nule od apene resonanta, pasa= ble alta. La komputorala vorto esas A. "click", qua signifikas la sono d= i *mus-preso, e tale la ago di *mus-preso. Ta sono esas ne-resonanta e = pasable alta. En la Collins Gem / Dictionnaires Le Robert de 1998 me ne= trovas F. "cliquer", ma nur F. "cliqueter", qua signifikas ed A. "jangle= " di F. "ferraille" (anciena fer-peci), ed A. "jingle" di klefi. Ma hi= ke vu skribas pri > ... la anciena verbo "cliquer" qua signifikas facar = ca bruiso. qua (se me komprenas juste) on ri-vivigis por nur komputorala= uzo. > To esas pro quo en Franca on uzas l'expreso "cliquez sur l'ic=F4= ne" Plu probable, ol esas la modern A. vorto, prenita itere aden la Fr= anca. To esas pro quo on uzas ol en la Franca, se me ne eroras. > (to s= ignifikas: selektar l'ikono kun la muso e facar "clic" presante > la buto= no di *muso), ma on ne dicas "cliquetez sur l'ic=F4ne". On > dicas anke "= s=E9lectionner cette option par un clic de la souris" > Lore [konseque] = me propozas : > - adoptar la nova vorto *klikar =3D cliquer [F] (qua esas= diferanta de "cliqueter [F]"). > - adoptar la nova defino kliko=3D cliqu= e, clic [F] > - adoptar la nova defino klikaro=3D cliquetis[F] (ensemblo = de bruisi produktata da mikra shoki) > - konservar la defino kliktar =3D = cliqueter [F] (facar klikaro) > - adoptar la nova defino klikto=3D pawl[A= ],cliquet [F] > > Do fine on povus havar: > click[A], clic[F], klako = [Esperanto] =3D kliko [Ido] > to click [A], cliquer[F], klaki[Esperanto] = =3D *klikar [Ido] > cliquer sur [F], alklaki[Esperanto] =3D *klikar ad od= *adklikar [Ido] Lo semblas a me larja chanji por ne-granda avantajo. = Ja on havas "kliktar", igar la muso bruisar. "presar", facar la = ago pri la mus-butono (e tale, pri la ikono). Semblas a me ke la komputo= rala vorto esas "presar". On presas la butono od ikono. -- Michael= TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1163 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51173 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2004 03:05:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2004 03:05:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2004 03:05:44 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i1O35WPC014236 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:35:36 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i1O35V5W014233 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:35:32 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:35:31 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <001501c3fa70$1593e140$886bdc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <001401c3f56f$4b281980$886bdc51@landloic> <001501c3fa70$1593e140$886bdc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] *komputorala vorti C-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara Loic, Ye 2004-02-24 01:49 +0100, Loic Landais skribis: > Kara Michael, > La dicionario "Lexis Larousse 1975" donas F. "cliqueter" venanta de > l'anciena franca vorto "cliquer" (1230) Me tote ne disputis pri lo. Forsan, advere, la vorto existis en la Franca en yaro 1230. Ma se, en nova epoko, la komputorala epoko, on volas emular la Angla "click on" komputorala, ka mortinta vorto vere rivivigis su, o kad on inventis itere, nedependante, la vorto "cliquer" por A. "click"? Forsan nulu povas solvar ta problemo. Ni obliviez vana disputo. > Me presas la mus-butono por *klikar adsur la ikono. Forsan me eroras, ma semblas a me ke la Angla ne havas specala vorto od uzado pri ta nuanco. Kad Ido bezonas ulo? Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1164 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 48728 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2004 21:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2004 21:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr3.sis.it) (217.72.32.23) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2004 21:21:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 23129 invoked by uid 108); 7 Mar 2004 22:15:38 +0100 Received: from narcar@sis.it by fr3 by uid 102 with qmail-scanner-1.20rc4 (clamuko: 0.60. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 1.449683 secs); 07 Mar 2004 23:15:38 -0000 X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: narcar@sis.it via fr3 X-Qmail-Scanner: 1.20rc4 (Clear:RC:1:. Processed in 1.449683 secs) Received: from unknown (HELO nardinic) (217.72.33.134) by 0 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2004 22:15:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c4048c$70463b80$862148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:37:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.23 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Kateno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Un semano ante nun, me finis mea esayo pri VERBO ERGATIVA*. Ol rezultis multe plu ampla e komplexa kam expektite. Ol inkluzas, inter mult altro: "La kompozanti dil frazo Franca linguisto Lucien Tesni�re (1893 - 1954, prekursoro dil moderna formalismo en linguistiko) komparas la frazo gramatikala a teatrajo. Quale en teatrajo esas aktori/procedo/cirkonstanci... " "Netransitiveso dividita ("split intransitivity") Depos D. Perlmutter (1978) on dividas la verbi netransitiva en du klasi: agentala e patientala... " "Verbi ergativa Linguisti konsideras la formo netransitiva dil verbo ergativa kom sorto di pasivigo profunda; ol expresas, per formo aktiva, relato verbala esence pasiva... " "Voci dil verbo ergativa Pro analogeso kun altra lingui, precipue la Greka antiqua, linguisti dicas ke la verbo ergativa havas, ultre la voco aktiva e pasiva (kom verbo transitiva), anke la voco meza (kom verbo netransitiva)... " "Ka verbi ergativa en ido? Ye l'auroro di Ido esis diskuti pri la verbi mixita, kun propozi por augmentar lia nombro, od kontree por eliminar li. Yen ula citaji de Progreso... " "Origino dil vorto ergativa Historie vorto "ergativa" uzesas, semble de la 19.sma yar-cento, por indikar partikulara kazo gramatikala, la "kazo ergativa"... La "kazo ergativa" trovesas en diversa lingui, exemple la Baska, plura Kaukaziana, Eskima, multa Oceaniana... " "De ube/kande verbi ergativa ...on povas forsan kelk-maniere proximigar la verbi ergativa a la olima linguo Indo-Europana (triesma yar-milo a.K.), olqua ne havis la pasivo, ma nur l'aktivo e la mezo... " Me sendis l'esayo ad Hans Stuifbergen, por publikigo en Progreso, se il judikos ol kom apta. Pos ta laboro, me trovis freshiganta la sequanta questiono, sendita per "e-mail" da Idisto. ---------- <<<... vua artiklo pri posibleso...me pregus helpar ad me kalkulor: lor 20 lansi ek 3 kolori, qua esas la posibleso ke la nexta lanso esos sama koloro? Ex.: Reda, Blanka, Verda: R, B, V, B, R, V, V (!)...til 20 lansi.>>> Pro diversa motivi me preferas respondar publike (anke por povar korektigesar, se necesa; on ne obliviez ke me nule es matematikisto). La supera questiono es enigmata, ne tante pro la matematiko implikita, quante pro l'ambigueso dil questiono ipsa. Fakte, la questiono povas interpretesar en adminime un deko de manieri. Me traktos la problemo segun du interpreti diferanta. ### UNESMA INTERPRETO (...nexta lanso...) ### " De urno kun 3 buli, Reda R, Blanka B, Verda V, on extraktas blinde un bulo e on notas la koloro; on rienduktas la bulo aden l'urno; on riextraktas...(1) On volas savar la probableso ke, pos extrakto di un o plura buli Verda intersequanta, la nexta bulo extraktata esos anke Verda, tale ke on pasos exemple de RBV a RBVV ... o de RBVVVV a RBVVVVV ... o de RBVVVVVVVVV a RBVVVVVVVVVV ..." . Respondo es facila matematike, desfacile aceptebla intuicive (da multi). Esante ke l'urno kontenas 3 buli di 3 kolori B R V, la probableso extraktar, ye singla extrakto, bulo V es sempre 1/3 (un sur tri), mem pos extrakto exemple di 9 V intersequanta. Buli ne havas memoro. To es vera ke la probableso di 10 V sucedanta es minima, ma ank es vera ke la precedanta 9 V ja eventinta adsorbas la maxim granda parto dil neprobableso. ### DUESMA INTERPRETO (...til 20 lansi...) ### "De urno kun 3 buli, Reda R, Blanka B, Verda V, on extraktas blinde un bulo e on notas la koloro; on rienduktas la bulo aden l'urno; on riextraktas...procedante tale dum 20 extrakti. On volas savar la probableso, en serio de 20 extrakti, obtenar ciklo de adminime 2 V intersequanta, aceptante pos ul ciklo VV ridepartar de +skracho (t.e. kalkular VV.VV kom du cikli)" (2, 3). Existas diversa +aprochi a la problemo. Me ne savas +quu propozis unesma l'+aprocho segun me maxim eleganta, +bazata sur la kateni di Markov. Me expozos ol, quale me ol komprenas, en la maniero plu simpla kam posibla (ma kelka matematiko es ve necesa). �� YE SINGLA EXTRAKTO Pos singla extrakto, esas tri posiblesi relate ciklo de 2 V: - sive on disponas 2 V intersequanta (la ciklo es realigita): ...RBVV - sive on disponas 1 V (mankas 1 V por realigar la ciklo): ...RBRV - sive on disponas 0 V (mankas 2 V por realigar la ciklo): ...RBRB Teknike, pos singla extrakto on dicas ke la procedo esas "en certena situeso", identifikata per du nombri: la nombro di V disponebla por la ciklo, e la nombro di extrakti restanta. Exemple pos 5.sma extrakto, restas 15 extrakti efektigenda, e la procedo esas en un ek la sequanta situesi: - situeso (2, 15): on disponas du V, restas 15 extrakti efektigenda: RBRVV - situeso (1, 15): on disponas un V, restas 15 extrakti efektigenda: RBBRV - situeso (0, 15): on disponas zero V, restas 15 extrakti efektigenda: RRBRB A singla situeso korelatas certena probableso p(0, 15) obtenar ciklo VV en la restanta 15 extrakti. A la situeso (2, 15) korelatas probableso 1 (ciklo realigita) (4). �� YE KOMENCA EXTREMAJO DIL KATENO On imaginez kateno de 21 ringi. La ringi reprezentas la sucedanta bul-extrakti; ringo 0 (zero) korelatas a nul extrakto efektigita, ringo 20 korelatas a omna extrakti ja efektigita. Ante komencar extraktar, on es a l'estremajo zero dil kateno. La procedo esas en situeso (0, 20): zero V okuris*, e restas 20 extrakti efektigenda. A ca situeso korelatas certena probableso p(0, 20) obtenar ciklo VV en la tota serio di 20 extrakti; ca probableso reprezentas la respondo a la questiono da l'Idisto. Nun, on facez l'unesma extrakto: - sive on extraktas V (kun probableso 1/3), pasante a situeso (1, 19), ube on disponas 1 V por formacar la ciklo VV e restas 19 extrakti efektigenda; - sive on extraktas B o R (kun probableso 2/3), pasante a situeso (0, 19), ube on disponas zero V por formacar la ciklo VV e restas 19 extrakti efektigenda. Altra-dice, per unesma extrakto la probableso p(0, 20) havas - 1/3 probablesi pasar a probableso p(1, 19) - 2/3 probablesi pasar a probableso p(0, 19). Formule to expresesas tale: p(0, 20) = p(1, 19) * 1/3 + p(0, 19) * 2/3. To signifikas, ke se on konocus p(1, 19) e p(0, 19) on kalkulus nemediate p(0, 20), t.e. on havus la respondo a la questiono. On rivenos a to. La supera formulo es apliko partikulara dil formulo generala: p(c, n) = p(c + 1, n - 1) * x + p(0, n - 1) * (1 - x) valida por omna situesi di omna procedo analoga: "c" iras de 0 a la nombro dil kompozanti dil ciklo (2 en la prezenta kazo), "n" es la extrakti restanta, "x" es la probableso di singla extraktajo (1/3 en la prezenta kazo). La "formulo" dicas, ke en singla situeso la probableso obtenar ciklo VV en la restanta extrakti kalkulesas de la probableso obtenar ciklo VV pos nexta extrakto...irante de ringo a ringo, til la fina extremajo dil kateno. �� YE FINA EXTREMAJO DIL KATENO Pos kompletigo di omna extrakti on es a l'extremajo 20 dil kateno. Tri situesi es posibla, kande zero extrakti es efektigenda: - situeso (2, 0) : on disponas 2 V, kun probableso realigar la ciklo = 1: ...RBRVV - situeso (1, 0): on disponas 1 V, kun probableso realigar la ciklo = 0: ...RBRBV - situeso (0, 0): on disponas zero V, kun probableso realigar la ciklo = 0: ...RBRBR Marvelo! On konocas la probableso dil situesi pos la lasta extrakto! To signifikas, ke departante de ca probableso, e aplikante la supera formulo RETROE de ringo a ringo, on abutas fine a la probableso p(0, 20), t.e. a la respondo a la inicia questiono. Aplikante la formulo a la prezenta problemo on trovas p(0, 20) = 0.8342: la probableso obtenar adminime un ciklo VV en serio de 20 bul-extrakti, de urno kun tri buli B R V, es 83 %. Ek 100 serii, singla kun 20 bul-extrakti, 83 serii kontenos ciklo VV. ---------- Me facabas mikra programo komputorala, valida por omna problemo analoga (lanso di moneto, lanso di lud-kubo...), por irga ciklo (nombro di sama eventi intersequanta), en irga serio (nombro di extrakti o di lansi...); unika limito es la memoro dil komputoro. Me facabas anke programo komputorala, por simular singla experimento. Rezulto dil simulado es exakte surpozebla ad olta dil kalkulo teoriala (5). Me facis anke verifiko manuala. En la prezenta problemo, diminutante pro praktikaleso la bul-extrakti de 20 a 5, probableso di ciklo VV es 0.3251 (cirkum 1/3), segun la kalkulo teoriala. Me pozis tri plumi, Nigra, Reda e Verda, en siteleto, ed extraktis blinde (kun riendukto) 5 plumi; me repetis la 5 extrakti dum sis foye (pose me enoyis), obtenante la sequanta serii: RNNNN...VRNNR...RRVRV...RVVVN...NNVVR...RVRNN Quale on vidas, 2 serii sur 6 havas ciklo de adminime 2 VV, konforme la teorio. Tamen 6 repeti es evidente tro poka. Irgu povos verifikar paciente la teorio per plu nombroza repeti. Yen ul altra probablesi da me kalkulita: -- lanso di moneto: 4 averso intersequanta, en serio de 10 lansi: probableso 0.2451 (25 % proxime) 5 averso intersequanta, en serio de 20 lansi: probableso 0.2499 (25 % proxime) -- extrakto di bulo (de urno kun buli Blanka Reda Verda, kun riendukto): 2 Verda intersequanta, en serio de 20 extrakti: probableso 0.8342 (85 % proxime) 3 Verda intersequanta, en serio de 20 extrakti: probableso 0.3922 (40 % proxime) -- lanso di lud-kubo: 2 sis intersequanta, en serio de 20 lansi: probableso 0.3755 (40 % proxime) 2 sis intersequanta, en serio de 30 lansi: probableso 0.5118 (50 % proxime) ---------- (1) Se on extraktas bulo "sen riendukto", exemple de urno kun 20 buli Blanka, 20 Reda e 20 Verda, la kalkulo es tote diferanta. (2) Altra punto precizigenda en l'enuncato es, ka ol satisfacesas nur da VV, od anke da BB or RR. (3) Altra punto fundamentala es, kad on vizas ciklo di - adminime VV (lore VVV satisfacas) - precize VV (lore VVV od VVVV ne satisfacas); - VV ridepartante de +skracho pos VV (lore VV.V satisfacas 1 foye, VV.VV satisfacas 2 foye) - VV kun posibla embriko (lore VVV satisfacas 2 foye, kom VV.V e V.VV) (4) "Probableso 1" signifikas evento certa, "probableso 0" signifikas evento neposibla. (5) Defino dil moderna statistikisto: viro, +quu ye unesma nokto dicas a la spozino "karino, simulado funcionos tam bone". Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1165 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87322 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2004 23:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2004 23:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2004 23:21:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 10877 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2004 23:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Mar 2004 23:21:00 -0000 Message-ID: <001f01c406f6$bc86f860$886bdc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:23:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: "Anti-" vice "kontre" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara samideani, Pri la prefixo anti- , la KGD (publigita en 1925, ma strik= te konforma al decidi di la Komitato e dil Komisitaro permananta en 1908) i= ndikas: Ta prefixo esis l'objekto di la sequanta decido 883 (Progreso, VI,1= 13) " On repulsas anti- kom prefixo generale aplikebla (1), ed adoptas ol k= om rezervenda a la ciencala e teknikala terminaro". (1) En noto : Nam on ha= vas e devas havar kontre kom tala prefixo. Ma en la dicionario Franca-Id= o di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront (1915), on povas trovar ca sequanta vort= i neciencala o neteknikala : (me adjuntis la angla traduko) antipatriote[= F], antipatriot[A]: anti-patriot-o, -a, -ala ma: antinational[F], antinati= onal[A]: kontre-naciona antis=E9mite[F], anti-semite[A]: anti-semida, anti= -semido ma: antijuif[F], anti-Jew[A]: kontre-jud-a, -o antimilitariste[F]= , antimilitarist[A]: anti-militar-isto ma: antin=E9vralgique[F], antinevra= lgic[A]: kontre-nevralgia ... Kun ca exempli, me konstatas ke Ido ne esa= s reguloza. Me opinionas ke to ne esas bone por helplinguo havar tala nere= gulozeso. Ita komplikas la linguo neutile. Lore me opinionas ke on devus ko= rektigar ca neregulozeso ed uzar sempre la prefixo "anti- " vice "kontre", = nam "kontre" esas prepoziciono e ne devas esar anke prefixo. Quon vu pensa= s pri to ? Me predankas vu pro vua respondo. Kordiale Loik [Non-text por= tions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1166 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90662 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2004 00:48:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2004 00:48:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2004 00:48:43 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2B0mXiI003009 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:18:34 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i2B0mXOS003006 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:18:33 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:18:33 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto In-Reply-To: <001f01c406f6$bc86f860$886bdc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <001f01c406f6$bc86f860$886bdc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Kara Loic, Ye 2004-03-11 00:23 +0100, Loic Landais skribis: > " On repulsas anti- kom prefixo generale aplikebla (1), ed adoptas ol kom rezervenda a la ciencala e teknikala terminaro". > (1) En noto : Nam on havas e devas havar kontre kom tala prefixo. > > Ma en la dicionario Franca-Ido di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront (1915), on povas trovar ca sequanta vorti neciencala o neteknikala : > (me adjuntis la angla traduko) > antipatriote[F], antipatriot[A]: anti-patriot-o, -a, -ala > ma: > antinational[F], antinational[A]: kontre-naciona > > antis�mite[F], anti-semite[A]: anti-semida, anti-semido > ma: > antijuif[F], anti-Jew[A]: kontre-jud-a, -o > Quon vu pensas pri to ? Tale vu montras semprala problemo pri artificala linguo. On konstatas regulo, ma pose trovas su tranata da la aspekto di la naturala linguo e la bezono krear ulo qua aspektas komprenable ed agreable ad olua parolanti. Mem plu tarde, Dyer skribis (Angla-Ido, 1924), �anti-Semit-ic -e: kontre-jud-a, -i; -semid-a, -(ul)o; -ism: -ismo.� Ma lu skribis diferante en lua Ido-Angla vortaro (1924), ube on trovas advere, �anti-semid-a�. En la radikaro da Persiko on trovas anticipar, ..., antipatiar, antipirino, antipodo, antiqua, antisepsiar ek 17 radiki qui komencas "anti". Segun Persiko, � anti- : Prefixo (rezervita a la terminaro ciencala e teknikala) qua signifikas "kontre".� Lu ne montras �kontre-� kom prefixo, mem quankam Dyer (supere) uzas ol tale. La regulo, segun me, esas, sequar la regulo. Do, uzez "kontre semida" o "kontre-semida", e permisez la konversatro di Ido klarigar ol. -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1167 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99363 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2004 00:43:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2004 00:43:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.144) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2004 00:43:08 -0000 Received: from web2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040312004302.VVWH3976.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@web2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:43:02 +1300 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040312004301.CYTX9867.web2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:43:01 +1300 To: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:43:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040312004301.CYTX9867.web2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.144 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Loic, Me konkordas kun la "oficala versiono" t.e. uzez "anti-" por ciencala e teknikala vorti. Tamen e desfortunoze, certena altra vorti uzas "anti-" kom prefixo. Kustume nia Linguo-Sekretario *reserchas nombro di Europala lingui e selektas por Ido, vorto quan *okuras plu ofte. Forsan, se vorti kun "anti-" es nun oficala, ni aceptus ol, ma future ni devas uzar "kontre", sive aparta o kom prefixo. Quankam Ido havas poka sinonimi, la nombro di tala vorti kreskos e sendubite ni kolektos grupo di anciena vorti, kun restriktita uzado. Ne mala situeso por vivanta linguo! Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Loic Landais" > Date: 2004/03/11 Thu PM 12:23:46 GMT+13:00 > To: "linguolisto" > Subject: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1168 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63150 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2004 12:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2004 12:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2004 12:41:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 23304 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2004 12:41:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Mar 2004 12:41:07 -0000 Message-ID: <004901c408f8$d8649ac0$886bdc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Cc: "idolisto" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:43:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Michael TALBOT-WILSON e Richard Stevenson, Danko pro vua respondi a m= ea mesajo sube rimemorita. Me respektas vua opinioni pri la uzado di "anti-= " e "kontre" e deskonkordas kun vu por sequar regulo ke Dyer e Persiko ne s= empre sequis . Kande la regulo es mala on mustas chanjar ol. Do persone me = ne uzoz "kontre" kom "prefixo" e uzos "anti-" por ciencala e teknikala e ge= nerala vorti, nam me deziras ke Ido havas nula neregulozeso kontree a natur= ala lingui por esar maxim facila posible. Pluse me dezirus ke omna evoluci= ono-propozo o modifiko-propozo aceptebla esez oficale numerizata e enskriba= ta per ULI por ke ol ne esas obliviata e trovas forsan future bona solvo e = decido. Por ca skopo me propozas ke omna ti qui deziras enskribigar per ULI= sua propozo mustas facar lo kun la sequanta strukturo: - Dato: - N= omo di demandanto: - Klasifiko di la demando: vortaro o gramatiko = - Objekto di la demando ( kurta rezumo): - Argumentado di la demand= o: Pose se ca demando esas aceptebla l'ULI donus oficala numero e enskri= bus ol en *datumo-bazo (o *donato-bazo). Ca numero permizus ad ULI ritrovar= rapide la demando kande ulu questionos ol pri lo e ad omni savar se tala d= emando ja existas. Pri la *datumo-bazo (o *donato-bazo) to ne esas problem= o havar nun mem interreta bazo MySQL videbla per omni. Ante dikutar lo kun= ULI, quon vu pensas pri mea propozo ? Me predankas vu e altra samideani p= ro donar vua opiniono. Amikale Loik L.L > Pri la prefixo anti- , la = KGD (publigita en 1925, ma strikte konforma al decidi di la Komitato > = e dil Komisitaro permananta en 1908) indikas: > Ta prefixo esis l'objek= to di la sequanta decido 883 (Progreso, VI,113) > " On repulsas anti- k= om prefixo generale aplikebla (1), ed adoptas ol kom rezervenda > a la = ciencala e teknikala terminaro". > (1) En noto : Nam on havas e devas h= avar kontre kom tala prefixo. > > Ma en la dicionario Franca-Ido d= i L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront (1915), on povas trovar > ca sequanta vo= rti neciencala o neteknikala : > (me adjuntis la angla traduko) >= antipatriote[F], antipatriot[A]: anti-patriot-o, -a, -ala > ma: = > antinational[F], antinational[A]: kontre-naciona > >= antis=E9mite[F], anti-semite[A]: anti-semida, anti-semido > ma: = > antijuif[F], anti-Jew[A]: kontre-jud-a, -o > > = antimilitariste[F], antimilitarist[A]: anti-militar-isto > ma: > = antin=E9vralgique[F], antinevralgic[A]: kontre-nevralgia > ... = > > Kun ca exempli, me konstatas ke Ido ne esas reguloza. > = Me opinionas ke to ne esas bone por helplinguo havar tala neregulozeso. = > Ita komplikas la linguo neutile. > Lore me opinionas ke on devus ko= rektigar ca neregulozeso ed uzar sempre la prefixo > "anti- " vice "ko= ntre", nam "kontre" esas prepoziciono e ne devas esar anke prefixo. M.T.W= > Mem plu tarde, Dyer skribis (Angla-Ido, 1924), =ABanti-Semit-ic -e: = > kontre-jud-a, -i; -semid-a, -(ul)o; -ism: -ismo.=BB Ma lu skribis dife= rante > en lua Ido-Angla vortaro (1924), ube on trovas advere, =ABant= i-semid-a=BB. > > En la radikaro da Persiko on trovas anticipar= , ..., antipatiar, antipirino, > antipodo, antiqua, antisepsiar ek 17= radiki qui komencas "anti". > > Segun Persiko, =AB anti- : Pre= fixo (rezervita a la terminaro ciencala e teknikala) > qua signifikas= "kontre".=BB Lu ne montras =ABkontre-=BB kom prefixo, mem quankam = > Dyer (supere) uzas ol tale. > > La regulo, segun me, esas, se= quar la regulo. Do, uzez "kontre semida" > o "kontre-semida", e perm= isez la konversatro di Ido klarigar ol. R.S > Me konkordas kun la "oficala= versiono" t.e. uzez "anti-" por ciencala e teknikala vorti. > Tamen e = desfortunoze, certena altra vorti uzas "anti-" kom prefixo. > Kustume = nia Linguo-Sekretario *reserchas nombro di Europala lingui e selektas por I= do, vorto > quan *okuras plu ofte. Forsan, se vorti kun "anti-" es nun = oficala, ni aceptus ol, > ma future ni devas uzar "kontre", sive aparta= o kom prefixo. Quankam Ido havas > poka sinonimi, la nombro di tala vo= rti kreskos e sendubite ni kolektos grupo di anciena vorti, kun > restr= iktita uzado. Ne mala situeso por vivanta linguo! [Non-text portions of th= is message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1169 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52809 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2004 22:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2004 22:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2004 22:22:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.159] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2004 22:22:17 -0000 Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:22:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004901c408f8$d8649ac0$886bdc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 5844 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.77 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Re: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Loic, Me prizas vua sistemala moyeno sugestar nova vorto o gramatikala= punto por konsidero da l'ULI. Segun la KGD on olim registris per nombro = la decidi pri nova vorti o chanji di gramatiko. Supozeble kande dicionarii= aparis e nia linguo esas fixita pos 1914, tala sistemo ne plus esis neces= a. Ma hodie, grand-nombro di vorti bezonas konsidero, e quale vu asertas, = omna sugesti e sucedanta decidi meritas numerala registro. *Datumbazo esas= tre apta moyeno hodie. En la dicionario Ido-Angla da Dyer me remarkas cirk= um 20 vorti kun la prefixo " anti-" qui arivis de Greka e ne es vere tekni= kala. Semblas ke existas tri grupi: (1) Ordinara vorti qui, pro derivo de = Greka havas prefixo "anti-". (Exemple: antifono; antipatio). Tala vorti n= e chanjas. (2) Ciencala e teknikala vorti kun "anti-" quale prefixo, ed es= antonimi. (Exemple: antibiotiko). Tala vorti ne chanjas. (3) Vorti kun= prefixo "kontre-" (Dyer donas cirkum 30) qui es antonimi, ma anke povas = uzar "anti-". Me sugestas ke ta mikra grupo evitas "anti-" ed uzas "kontre= ", sive prefixo o prepoziciono. Tamen nia linguo ne bezonas tre strikta re= guli, altre ol divenas tipo di *mors-kodo! Amikale, Richard S. --- In lin= guolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loic Landais" wrote: > Kara= Michael TALBOT-WILSON e Richard Stevenson, > > Danko pro vua respondi a m= ea mesajo sube rimemorita. > Me respektas vua opinioni pri la uzado di "ant= i-" e "kontre" e deskonkordas kun vu por sequar regulo ke Dyer e Persiko n= e sempre sequis . > Kande la regulo es mala on mustas chanjar ol. > Do per= sone me ne uzoz "kontre" kom "prefixo" e uzos "anti-" por ciencala e tekni= kala e generala vorti, nam me deziras ke Ido havas nula neregulozeso kontr= ee a naturala lingui por esar maxim facila posible. > > Pluse me dezirus = ke omna evoluciono-propozo o modifiko-propozo aceptebla esez oficale numer= izata e enskribata per ULI por ke ol ne esas obliviata e trovas forsan fut= ure bona solvo e decido. > Por ca skopo me propozas ke omna ti qui deziras = enskribigar per ULI sua propozo mustas facar lo kun la sequanta strukturo:= > - Dato: > - Nomo di demandanto: > - Klasifiko di la demando:= vortaro o gramatiko > - Objekto di la demando ( kurta rezumo): > = - Argumentado di la demando: > > Pose se ca demando esas aceptebla l= 'ULI donus oficala numero e enskribus ol en *datumo-bazo (o *donato-bazo).= Ca numero permizus ad ULI ritrovar rapide la demando kande ulu questionos= ol pri lo e ad omni savar se tala demando ja existas. > > Pri la *datumo= -bazo (o *donato-bazo) to ne esas probleemo havar nun mem interreta bazo My= SQL videbla per omni. > > Ante dikutar lo kun ULI, quon vu pensas pri mea = propozo ? > Me predankas vu e altra samideani pro donar vua opiniono. > Am= ikale > Loik > > > > L.L > Pri la prefixo anti- , la KGD (publigita = en 1925, ma strikte konforma al decidi di la Komitato > > e dil Komisi= taro permananta en 1908) indikas: > > Ta prefixo esis l'objekto di la s= equanta decido 883 (Progreso, VI,113) > > " On repulsas anti- kom pref= ixo generale aplikebla (1), ed adoptas ol kom rezervenda > > a la cien= cala e teknikala terminaro". > > (1) En noto : Nam on havas e devas hav= ar kontre kom tala prefixo. > > > > Ma en la dicionario Franca-Id= o di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront (1915), on povas trovar > > ca sequa= nta vorti neciencala o neteknikala : > > (me adjuntis la angla traduko= ) > > antipatriote[F], antipatriot[A]: anti-patriot-o, -a, - ala = > > ma: > > antinational[F], antinational[A]: kontre-naciona = > > > > antis=E9mite[F], anti-semite[A]: anti-semida, anti= -semido > > ma: > > antijuif[F], anti-Jew[A]: kontre-jud-a, -= o > > > > antimilitariste[F], antimilitarist[A]: anti-mil= itar- isto > > ma: > > antin=E9vralgique[F], antinevralgic[A]= : kontre-nevralgia > > ... > > > > Kun ca exempli, me kons= tatas ke Ido ne esas reguloza. > > Me opinionas ke to ne esas bone por= helplinguo havar tala neregulozeso. > > Ita komplikas la linguo neut= ile. > > Lore me opinionas ke on devus korektigar ca neregulozeso ed u= zar sempre la prefixo > > "anti- " vice "kontre", nam "kontre" esas pr= epoziciono e ne devas esar anke prefixo. > > > M.T.W > Mem plu tarde, Dy= er skribis (Angla-Ido, 1924), =ABanti-Semit- ic -e: > > kontre-jud-a,= -i; -semid-a, -(ul)o; -ism: -ismo.=BB Ma lu skribis diferante > > = en lua Ido-Angla vortaro (1924), ube on trovas advere, =ABanti-semid-a=BB.= > > > > En la radikaro da Persiko on trovas anticipar, ..., a= ntipatiar, antipirino, > > antipodo, antiqua, antisepsiar ek 17 radik= i qui komencas "anti". > > > > Segun Persiko, =AB anti- : Pref= ixo (rezervita a la terminaro ciencala e teknikala) > > qua signifik= as "kontre".=BB Lu ne montras =ABkontre-=BB kom prefixo, mem quankam > = > Dyer (supere) uzas ol tale. > > > > La regulo, segun me,= esas, sequar la regulo. Do, uzez "kontre semida" > > o "kontre-sem= ida", e permisez la konversatro di Ido klarigar ol. > > R.S > Me konkorda= s kun la "oficala versiono" t.e. uzez "anti-" por ciencala e teknikala vor= ti. > > Tamen e desfortunoze, certena altra vorti uzas "anti-" kom pre= fixo. > > Kustume nia Linguo-Sekretario *reserchas nombro di Europala = lingui e selektas por Ido, vorto > > quan *okuras plu ofte. Forsan, se= vorti kun "anti-" es nun oficala, ni aceptus ol, > > ma future ni dev= as uzar "kontre", sive aparta o kom prefixo. Quankam Ido havas > > pok= a sinonimi, la nombro di tala vorti kreskos e sendubite ni kolektos grupo = di anciena vorti, kun > > restriktita uzado. Ne mala situeso por vivant= a linguo! > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1170 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54454 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2004 00:42:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2004 00:42:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pierce.numericable.net) (80.236.0.150) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2004 00:42:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 21791 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2004 00:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by pierce.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 15 Mar 2004 00:42:01 -0000 Message-ID: <004501c40a26$b74f9ea0$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:44:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.150 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Richard, Danko pro vua respondo pri la neceso jerar la propozaji di nova vorti o gramatikala chanji per numerala registro quale me sugestis. Do me probos propozar *Datumbazo a l'ULI por to. Danko ankor pro vua interesanta respondo pri la temo "Anti-" vice "kontre". Vu skribis > Tamen nia linguo ne bezonas tre strikta reguli, altre ol divenas tipo di *mors-kodo! Me ne kunkordas kun vu pri to, nam segun me, helplinguo ne devas havar neregulozeso por esar plu facila kam naturala linguo. Ma forsan esas ne posibla ? Amikala saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "richsteven2000" � : Envoy� : dimanche 14 mars 2004 23:22 Objet : Re: [linguo] "Anti-" vice "kontre" Kara Loic, Me prizas vua sistemala moyeno sugestar nova vorto o gramatikala punto por konsidero da l'ULI. Segun la KGD on olim registris per nombro la decidi pri nova vorti o chanji di gramatiko. Supozeble kande dicionarii aparis e nia linguo esas fixita pos 1914, tala sistemo ne plus esis necesa. Ma hodie, grand-nombro di vorti bezonas konsidero, e quale vu asertas, omna sugesti e sucedanta decidi meritas numerala registro. *Datumbazo esas tre apta moyeno hodie. En la dicionario Ido-Angla da Dyer me remarkas cirkum 20 vorti kun la prefixo " anti-" qui arivis de Greka e ne es vere teknikala. Semblas ke existas tri grupi: (1) Ordinara vorti qui, pro derivo de Greka havas prefixo "anti-". (Exemple: antifono; antipatio). Tala vorti ne chanjas. (2) Ciencala e teknikala vorti kun "anti-" quale prefixo, ed es antonimi. (Exemple: antibiotiko). Tala vorti ne chanjas. (3) Vorti kun prefixo "kontre-" (Dyer donas cirkum 30) qui es antonimi, ma anke povas uzar "anti-". Me sugestas ke ta mikra grupo evitas "anti-" ed uzas "kontre", sive prefixo o prepoziciono. Tamen nia linguo ne bezonas tre strikta reguli, altre ol divenas tipo di *mors-kodo! Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1171 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39981 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2004 22:01:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2004 22:01:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.136) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2004 22:01:06 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2af.compuserve.com (8.12.9/8.12.7/SUN-2.12) id i2OM0Zvx016385; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:00:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:58:49 -0500 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto , uli-ido Message-ID: <200403241659_MC3-1-78D6-51A4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.136 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Nova vorti geografiala - por komento X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen listo di nomi geografiala, populala ed astronomiala, ja propozita ye 12= februaro en la forumo "Linguo" por konsidero e komento. Me iteras la invi= to komentar, favore o desfavore, pri la vorti propozita. Robert C. _______= _____ A=3DAngla; F=3DFranca; G=3DGermana; H=3DHispana; I=3DItaliana; R=3DR= usa; Esp=3DEsperanto; Abreviuri: fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero mar.=3D(pri)= oceano, maro, gulfo, bayo o lago mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro *Bielorus.= a A: Byelorussian [adj.] F: bi=E9lorusse G: wei=DFrussisch H: bielorruso= I: bielorusso R: byelorusskiy *Bielorus.o A: Byelorussian [person] F: = Bi=E9lorusse G: Wei=DFrusse H: bielorruso I: bielorusso R: byelorus *Bu= tan / lando ye nordo di India / A: Bhutan F: Bhoutan G: Bhutan H: Bhut= =E1n, Butan I: Bhutan, Butan R: Butan Esp: Butano *Cheki.a / land-nomo,= kontraste a stat-nomo (Cheka Republiko) - difero ofte ignorata. Simile: Su= d-Afrika e Republiko di Sud-Afrika; Chinia e Republiko Populala di Chinia /= A: Czech Republic F: R=E9publique tch=E9que G: Tschechien, Tschechische = Republik H: la Rep=FAblica Checa I: Repubblica c=E8ca R: Cheshkaya Respub= lika Esp: C^eh^io, C^eh^ujo, C^eh^a Respubliko *Ege.a / pri la maro e la= insuli: *Egea maro, *Egea insuli / A: Aegean [sea, islands] F: =C9g=E9e = [mer], de la mer =C9g=E9e [=EEles] G: =E4g=E4isch H: egeo I: egeo R: eg= eyskiy Esp: Egea *Jupiter.o / (1) deo; (2) planeto / A: Jupiter [myth.; = planet] F: Jupiter [dieu; plan=E8te] G: Jupiter [Gott, Planet] H: J=FApi= ter [dios; planeta] I: Giove [mitol.; astr.] R: Yupiter Esp: Jupitero [d= io; planedo] *Kazakstan / lando di central Azia / A: Kazakhstan, Kazakst= an F: Kazakhstan G: Kasachstan H: Kazajst=E1n I: Kazakistan R: Kazakhst= an Esp: Kazah^ujo, Kazah^io *Kopt.a / pri populo anciena di Egiptia e li= a linguo / A: Coptic F: copte G: koptisch H: copto I: copto R: koptskiy= Esp: Kopta *Kopt.o / homo *Kopta / A: Copt [person] F: Copte G: Kopte= H: copto I: copto R: kopt Esp: Kopto *Krime.a / peninsulo di suda *U= kraina / A: Crimea F: Crim=E9e G: Krim H: Crimea I: Crimea R: Krjm Esp= : Krimeo *Kroat.a A: Croat [adj.] F: croate G: kroatisch H: croata I: = croato R: khorvatskiy Esp: Kroata *Kroat.o A: Croat [person] F: Croate= G: Kroate H: croata I: croato R: khorvat Esp: Kroato *Maur.a / pri p= opulo di norda Afrika, qua longe okupis Hispania / A: Moorish F: maure, m= ore G: maurisch H: moro I: moresco R: mavritanskiy Esp: Mau`ra *Maur.o= / homo *Maura. Propozo en Progreso 326,p16 / A: Moor F: Maure, More G: = Maure H: moro I: moro [della storia] R: mavr Esp: Mau`ro *Nil [fl.] /= fluvio afrikana. James Chandler: "Me preferas *Nil/o". Frank Kasper: "Nil"= / A: Nile F: Nil [fleuve] G: Nil H: Nilo I: Nilo R: Nil Esp: Nilo *= Pakistan A: Pakistan F: Pakistan G: Pakistan H: Pakist=E1n, Paquist=E1n = I: Pakistan R: Pakistan Esp: Pakistano *Papu.a / lando qua esas duimo d= i Nova Guinea ed apuda insuli. Tale *Papuana, *Papuano / A: Papua F: Papo= uasie G: Papua H: Papuasia I: Papuasia R: Papua Esp: Papu-lando *Papua-= Nov.a-Guine.a / stato kombinanta olima Britaniana (S-E) Nova Guinea (pose = nomata *Papua) e Germana (N-E) Nova Guinea (pose nomata Nova Guinea) / A: = Papua New Guinea F: Papouasie-Nouvelle-Guin=E9e G: Papua-Neuguinea H: Pap= =FAa y Nueva Guinea, Nueva Guinea Pap=FAa I: Papua Nuova Guinea R: Papua N= ovaya Gvineniya Esp: Novgvinea-lando *Salvador / lando di Amerika centra= la. James Chandler: "Me preferus *Salvador e *Singapur". Frank Kasper: "me = propozus "Salvadoria" segun la reguli nomizar landi en Ido". Tamen videz KG= D, p24-27 / A: El Salvador F: Salvador G: El Salvador H: El Salvador I= : El Salvador, Il Salvador R: Salvador Esp: Salvadoro *Saracen.o / sorto= di Arabo historiala. Ja existas "saraceno" (planto); esas plura tala nomi:= Kuba, Parto, Trogo, Trako e.c. / A: Saracen F: Sarrasin G: Sarazene, Sa= razenin H: sarraceno I: saraceno R: saracin Esp: Saraceno *Serb.a / pr= i populo qua migris a *Balkania en la 7ma yarcento / A: Serb [adj.] F: se= rbe G: serbisch H: serbio, servio I: ? serbo [della Serbia, dei serbi] R:= syerbskiy Esp: Serba *Serb.o / homo *Serba / A: Serb [n.] F: Serbe G= : Serbe H: serbio, servio I: serbo [persona] R: syerb Esp: Serbo *Sinai= / peninsulo, parto di o protektata da Egiptia / A: Sinai F: Sina=EF G: = Sinai H: Sina=ED I: Sinai R: Sinai Esp: Sinajo *Singapur A: Singapore = F: Singapour G: Singapur H: Singapur I: Singapore R: Sinkhapur Esp: Si= ngapuro *Slovak.a A: Slovak [adj.] F: slovaque G: slowakisch H: eslovac= o I: slovacco R: slovakskiy Esp: Slovaka *Sloven.a A: Slovene [adj.] = F: slov=E8ne G: slowenisch H: esloveno I: sloveno R: slovenskiy Esp: Sl= ovena *Tahiti / tale "Tahiti-ana" (ne "Tahit-i" e "Tahit-ana"). Frank Kas= per: "Tahitia" / A: Tahiti F: Tahiti G: Tahiti H: Tahit=ED I: Tahiti R= : Taiti Esp: Tahitio *Tamil.a / pri populo e linguo di suda India, e di = qua parto migris a Ceylon / A: Tamil F: tamoul, tamil G: tamilisch H: ta= mil I: tamilico; [sos.] tamil R: tamiylskiy Esp: Tamila *Teuton.a / pri= populo anciena / A: Teutonic [of the ancient Teutons] F: teutonique [his= t.] G: teutonisch H: teut=F3nico I: teutonico R: tyevtonskiy Esp: Teu`t= ona *Turkmenistan / tamen ja existas "Turkomano" (ne "Turkmeno") / A: Tu= rkmenistan F: Turkm=E9nistan G: Turkmenistan, Turkmenien H: Turkmenist=E1= n I: Turkmenistan R: Turkmyenistan Esp: Turkmenujo, Turkmenio *Ukrain.a = od Ukraini.a? / tale *Ukrainana. James Chandler: "Devas finar per -ia qual= e altra landonomi: *Ukraini/a, -an/a". Frank Kasper: "Ukrainia" Vlado: "Ukr= aina, Ukrainana" / A: Ukraine F: Ukraine G: Ukraine H: Ucrania I: Ucrai= na R: Ukraina Esp: Ukrajno, Ukrainio, -ujo *Uzbek.a / pri populo, c. du= triimi dil personi di *Uzbekistan / A: Uzbek [adj.] F: ouzbek G: usbeki= sch H: uzbeko I: usbeco R: uzbyekskiy Esp: Uzbeka *Uzbek.o / homo *Uzb= eka / A: Uzbek [person] F: Ouzbek G: Usbeke H: uzbeko I: usbeco R: uzb= yek Esp: Uzbeko *Uzbekistan / lando di central Azia / A: Uzbekistan F: = Ouzb=E9kistan G: Usbekistan H: Uzbekist=E1n I: Uzbechistan R: Uzbyekista= n Esp: Uzbekujo, Uzbekio *Vatikan.o / urbo e stato en Italia / A: Vatic= an [city, state] F: Vatican [cit=E9, =E9tat] G: Vatikan, Vatikanstadt H: = Vaticano [ciudad] I: Vaticano [citt=E0] R: Vatikan Esp: Vatikano *Vietna= m A: Vietnam, Viet-Nam F: Vi=EAt-nam, Vietnam G: Vietnam H: Vietnam I: = Vietnam R: V"etnam Esp: Vjet-Namo, Vjetnamio *Volg.a [fl.] / fluvio, la = maxim longa di Europa / A: Volga F: (la) Volga G: Wolga H: Volga I: Vol= ga R: Volga Esp: Volgo *Yidish.a / pri linguo olima di Judi *Ashkenaza /= A: Yiddish F: yiddish G: jiddisch H: [sus.] yiddish I: [sos.] yiddish = R: evreyskiy Esp: Jida [FINO] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1172 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17593 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2004 05:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2004 05:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2004 05:31:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.134] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2004 05:31:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:31:02 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 642 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Ukraina ed Ukrainia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert e samideani, Me remarkas la plu recenta listo di sugestita geografiala vorti quin nia Linguala Sekretario jus prizentabas. La problemi pri Ukraina/ia existas pro ke eroro en la Ido-angla dicionario da Dyer. (Me donas exkuzo por la iterado). En pag. 114 es Franc-ia, ma en pag. 404 es Franci-a edc. Do James Chandler asertas ke landi semblas havar finalo "-ia" quan ne es oficala Ido sufixo por landi. Fakte nur certena landi havas finalo "-ia" e regretinde ne existas irga komuna regulo. La moyeno qua Robert C. uzas, la sercho por la maxim populara vorto ek la Europala lingui es sendubite justa. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1173 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42439 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2004 11:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2004 11:06:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2004 11:06:50 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2PB3VT0000799 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:33:31 +1030 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i2PB3UAU000796 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:33:31 +1030 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:33:30 +1030 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Ukraina ed Ukrainia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2004-03-25 05:31 -0000, richsteven2000 skribis: > Me remarkas la plu recenta listo di sugestita geografiala vorti quin > nia Linguala Sekretario jus prizentabas. La problemi pri Ukraina/ia > existas pro ke eroro en la Ido-angla dicionario da Dyer. (Me donas > exkuzo por la iterado). En pag. 114 es Franc-ia, ma en pag. 404 es > Franci-a edc. Do James Chandler asertas ke landi semblas havar > finalo "-ia" quan ne es oficala Ido sufixo por landi. Fakte nur > certena landi havas finalo "-ia" e regretinde ne existas irga > komuna regulo. La moyeno qua Robert C. uzas, la sercho por la maxim > populara vorto ek la Europala lingui es sendubite justa. Anke, "Mexiki-a", "Arjentini-a". La "i" apartenas a la radiko, ma plurafoye on adjuntis nova "i" a la radiko. Semblante on atencis a la adjektivo, pri quale facile on povas evitar konfundo. Do, ankore, on mustas selektar inter la radiki "Ukrain-", "Ukraini-". "Ukraina" aspektas kom adjektivo, do on preferas "Ukrainia". Do, pro ke la radiko portas "i", la adjektivo devas ne esar "Ukraina", mem quankam pri certena nomi (Angli-a, Franci-a) on havas aparta radiko "Angl-", "Franc-" pri la habitanto ed adjektivo. Generale, on tote ne devas havar du radiki. -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1174 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34860 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2004 11:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2004 11:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2004 11:27:57 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.179] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B6T1h-0000h1-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:27:57 +0100 Received: from [212.114.233.252] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B6T1h-00088p-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:27:57 +0100 Message-ID: <010c01c4125c$2f323fd0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: References: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:04:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.183 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ukraina ed Ukrainia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara Robert, kara samideani! Me tote konkordas kun Richard, ke on bezonas = komuna regulo por landi, qui en Ido finas kun la finalo "a". Unesme "a" esa= s l'oficala finalo por adjektivi. Cetere kelka (anke di Robert propozita) l= andala nomi finas per "a", quale exemple "Bielorusa". Altralatere exemple "= Kroata" segun la propozo devus esar adjektivo por kazo koncernante a la lan= do. Ka ne esus plu saja decidar, ke landala nomi, qui til nun o segun propo= zo finas per "a" finez per "ia"? Ca plu faciligus e regulozigus nia linguo.= Cetere por me esas plu klara, pro quo on en Ido dicas "Chinia" vice la plu= internaciona vorto "China". En Esperanto on exemple klare savas, pro quo o= n nomesas la lando "C^inio, nome pro ke la sufixo por landala nomi esas "i"= . Altralatere anke en Esperanto existas neregulozeso exemple koncerne la la= ndo "Brazilia". Ca lando nomesas "Brazilo", pro ke anke existas l'urbo "Bra= zilia", quon on nomizis tale en Esperanto. Pri la vorto "Kasakstan" me dez= iras mencionar, ke la Rusa vorto ne esas "Kasakhstan", ma "Kasachstan" ( m= ola "ch" segun la Germana) o "Kasah^stan" ( "h^" segun Esperanto). Do, mank= as importanta litero en Ido, nome la "mola ch", qua segun mea opiniono chef= e esas uzata en Est-Europa od Azia. Do, segun la supre explicita me prefer= us "Ukrainia" vice "Ukraina". Kordiala saluti Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1175 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96661 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2004 23:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2004 23:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.105) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2004 23:40:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.154] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2004 23:40:21 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:40:20 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 713 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.105 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: La quaze-planeto "Sedna" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar amiki, Me remarkas ke nia samideano Jean Martignon sugestas ke la nova = quaze-planeto "Sedna" en Ido divenas "Sednao". Desfortunoze existas certe= na problemi pri pronunco, kande vorto finas per du vokali. Facila esas "-i= o, -ii, -ia, -ie" (yo, yi, ya, ye) ed "-uo. =96ui. =96 ua, -ue" (wo, wi, wa= , we). Ma desfacila esas "-ao, -ai, -aa, -ae" ed "-oo, oi, -oa, -oe". Tre = sucioza pronunco bezonesas. Komprenende tala vorti esas rara (heroo, boao, = sofao, aloo edc.) e ni povas uzar heroino e heroulo, boala, sofala edc. Do= me kredas ke "Sedno" esas plu apta kam "Sednao". L'altra quaze- planeto = "Quaoar" sendubite esas en Ido "Quaoaro" quankam la grupo di vokali restas= desfacila. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1176 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41147 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2004 11:12:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2004 11:12:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2004 11:12:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2004 11:11:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:11:20 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1627 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.86 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Parenti dil Finni X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Me bezonas la nomi (edc.) por la regioni di Rusa Federuro, en qui vivas la= linguala parenti dil Finni. Yen mea propozi: (1) Mari (ne plurala formo!)= (1.1) Antea nomo esas Cheremiso* ma ol esas nuntempe pejorativa por Mari.= Quale nominesus la homi e la linguo dil Mari? =96 en Ido Mariano*, Marian= a*. (1.2) Lando: en Rusa: Mariyskaya Respublika, en Mari: Mari El (el =3D = lando) =96 en Ido Marilando*, Respublika dil Mariani*. (1.3) Chef-urbo: Jos= hkar-Ola ("Reda Urbo") =96 en Ido Joshkar-Olao*. (2) Komi (ne plurala for= mo!) (2.1) Antea nomo esas Ziryano* ma ol esas nuntempe pejorativa por Kom= i. Quale nominesus la homi e la linguo dil Komi? =96 en Ido Komiano*, Komi= ana*. (2.2) Lando: en Rusa: Komi Respublika, en Komi: Komi mu (mu =3D land= o) =96 en Ido Komilando*, Respublika dil Komiani*. (2.3.) Chef-urbo: Syktyv= kar (y =3D "dopa-i") =96 en Ido Siktivkaro*. (3) Udmurt (3.1) Antea nomo e= sas Votyako* ma ol esas nuntempe pejorativa por Udmurt. Quale nominesus la= homi e la linguo dil Udmurt? =96 en Ido Udmurto*, Udmurta*. (3.2) Lando: = en Rusa: Udmurtskaya Respublika, Udmurtiya, en Udmurt: Udmurtia =96 en Ido= : Udmurtia*. (3.3) Chef-urbo: en Rusa: Ijevsk, en Udmurt: Ijkar =96 en Ido = Ijevsko*. (4) Mordva (4.1) La populo dividas su en du gruppi: Erza (o Erz= ya) e Moksha. Li mankas komuna nomo ma uzesas la nomo Mordva =96 en Ido E= rzano*, Mokshano*, Mord(o)vano*; Erzana*, Mokshana*, Mord(o)vana*. (4.2) L= ando: en Rusa: Mordoviya, en Erza e Moksha: Mordovia =96 en Ido Mordovia*.= (4.3) Chef-urbo: en Rusa: Saransk, en Erza e Moksha: Saran osh =96 en Ido= Saransko*. Questionas Arto Moisio Turku, Finlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1177 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14104 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2004 08:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2004 08:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2004 08:02:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.145] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2004 08:01:25 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:01:24 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1261 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.68 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Du komputorala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar amiki, Ni freque remarkas la uzado di du *komputorala vorti e me sugestas ed explikas equivalaji en Ido. (1) A: software. Ta Usa-angla termino es jokatra ed es antonimo di "hardware". Tala joki ne es apta por interlinguo e ni mustas uzar vorto quan explikas la funciono di la termino. Me sugestas "programaro" pro ke ta es fakte kolektajo di programi, sive texto, *grafiki o sono. Do ni forsan havas "ludo-programaro" quan kontenas movado e sono, *kalkulo-tabelo programaro" (A: spreadsheet) quan kontenas nomi o nombri e permisas alfabetala aranjo e kalkuli e *datum-bazo quan kontenas listo di programi ed altra informi, edc. Tote neapta es la pseudo-angla "molvaro" o plu mala, softvaro. (2) A: chip. Yen populara nomo por A: silicon chip ma plu exakte es "mikrocirkuito". Interne es cirkuiti ek siliko ed extere es mikra bloko di *plastiko. Ido ja havas du vorti, splito e spano quin = A: chip. (a) splito es fragmento di tote nereguloza formo, (segun la dicionaro Ido-Angla da Dyer). (b) spano anke es fragmento, evidente di plu reguloza formo ed es plu apta quale "siliko-spano". Esperanto havas "chipo" ma Ido ja havas adjektivo "chipa" = nekustoza. Slavatra imituro di angla vorti ne sempre es apta por Ido. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1178 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55258 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2004 10:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2004 10:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2004 10:07:42 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i35A4MT0025249 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:34:23 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i35A4LCv025246 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:34:21 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:34:21 +0930 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Du komputorala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2004-04-05 08:01 -0000, richsteven2000 skribis: > Kar amiki, > Ni freque remarkas la uzado di du *komputorala vorti e me sugestas > ed explikas equivalaji en Ido. > (1) A: software. Ta Usa-angla termino es jokatra ed es antonimo > di "hardware". Tala joki ne es apta por interlinguo e ni mustas uzar > vorto quan explikas la funciono di la termino. Me > sugestas "programaro" pro ke ta es fakte kolektajo di programi, sive Me tote konkordas. Pri ca afero on devas ne imitar vortope o quaze exakte la vorti inventita en la nacionala lingui. "Programaro" semblas a me kom bona. > ... > (2) A: chip. Yen populara nomo por A: silicon chip > ma plu exakte es "mikrocirkuito". Interne es cirkuiti ek siliko ed > extere es mikra bloko di *plastiko. Ido ja havas du vorti, splito e Pri la neapteso di "chip" tradukata me anke konkordas. Me nur volas dicar ke la vera injeniorala termino en la A. esas "integrated circuit". Anke on parolas pri "MSI", "LSI" e "VLSI", gradi di "integration" (integrigeso). Jurnal-skriberi inventis "chip", e tre multa neapta termini en multa faki. Li imajinas ke, suficante exakte por lia lekteri, siliko esas silico. Ma anke esas altra speco de cirkuiti ek *mi-duktiv elementi qua extere esas mikra romboedri ek *plastiko. En la A. on nomas ulo ek li "hybrid circuit". Externe ol aspektas same kam "integrated circuit", ma ne vere facesis ek un peco de ula obleo ek siliko. Forsan on trovas, en la romboedro, cirkuito ek kupra fili. Do, semblas a me, "mikrocirkuito" esas tro generala. Me opinionas ke Ido bezonas "cirkuito integrigita". To esas longa termino, ma la vera Angla termino anke esas longa. Pro to, jurnalisti inventis "chip". On ne tre ofte bezonas uzar ta termino. Se on diskutos pri la temo on balde komencos uzar "cirkuito" sola. Injeniori tale parolas. Ma li anke parolas kurte pri le "I.C." To esas bona Ida abreviuro di "Integrigita Cirkuito". Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1179 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62162 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 03:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2004 03:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 03:24:51 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i363OhT0026724 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:54:44 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i363Ohcq026721 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:54:43 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:54:43 +0930 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Du komputorala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2004-04-05 19:34 +0930, Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: > Ido bezonas "cirkuito integrigita". To esas longa termino, ma la vera > Angla termino anke esas longa. Pro to, jurnalisti inventis "chip". > On ne tre ofte bezonas uzar ta termino. Se on diskutos pri la temo on > balde komencos uzar "cirkuito" sola. Injeniori tale parolas. Ma li > anke parolas kurte pri le "I.C." To esas bona Ida abreviuro di > "Integrigita Cirkuito". Anke, en la Angla, on uzas la termino "package" (paketo) por kelka I.C. Exemple, la ofte uzata abreviuro "DIP" signifikas "Dual In-line Package". To esas I.C. di qua la extera konduktiva terminaji esas quaza splinti, e ta splinti dispozas su en du linei ("dual in line"), apud la du longa lateri di la paketo. Semblas a me ke ta omna termini esas facile disponebla en Ido, e do on ne bezonas specala vorto por A. "chip". Amikale... -- Michael TALBOT-WILSON -- Hike esas du o tri bokali per qui ni facos kelka experimenti, e me montros a vi la maxim bona moyeno por facar ita experimenti. Me ne timas montrar to a vi, pro ke me deziras ke vi facez experimenti, se vu nur facez oli kun sorgo ed atenco, e la asento di li cirkum vu.---MICHAEL FARADAY From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1180 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9952 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2004 08:47:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2004 08:47:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2004 08:47:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.113] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2004 08:47:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:47:24 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 328 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.81 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Mil vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara samideani, Me lektis (kom novulo en Ido) en la ret-situo dil ULI, ke en Grossbothen decidesis krear e publikigar "Listo kun mil Ido-vorti" per la lingui dil Europala Uniono. Ka me darfus tradukar la vorti di la listo aden Finna, se nula altru ne tradukos oli? De quo me povus recevar la listo dil vorti? Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1181 Return-Path: X-Sender: zaq@sympatico.ca X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82162 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2004 04:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2004 04:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.92) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2004 04:53:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2004 04:53:32 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:53:29 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 672 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.92 From: "IdoWiki exportacaji" Subject: Re: Mil vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=158192109 X-Yahoo-Profile: idowikiexportacaji Kara sioro Moisio, segun semblo, la responsiva persono pri ca projeto, James Chandler, cesis laboro pri Mil Vorti. Me rekomendas vu kontakar ilu pri co ante kontributar ulo. Me anke questionas me pro quo la projeto semblante haltesis. Saluti kordiala --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Arto Moisio" wrote: > Kara samideani, > > Me lektis (kom novulo en Ido) en la ret-situo dil ULI, ke en > Grossbothen decidesis krear e publikigar "Listo kun mil > Ido-vorti" per la lingui dil Europala Uniono. > > Ka me darfus tradukar la vorti di la listo aden Finna, se nula altru > ne tradukos oli? De quo me povus recevar la listo dil vorti? > > Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1182 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 235 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2004 09:53:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2004 09:53:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.126) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2004 09:53:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Apr 2004 02:53:00 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.66 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:53:00 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:53:00 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2004 09:53:00.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[71659E70:01C41E18] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.126 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: Mil vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Filip, kar Arto, Me ya cesis laborar pri la Mil Vorti - ma nur provizore. Ma konservis omna tradukuri sendit a me por futura inserto. Pro quo me cesis? Honeste parolante, la Mil Vorti es tre tempivora, e plura nova projeti furtis de ol mea foko. Un ek ta projeti es la situo Europa. Me es per naturo diletanto - me saltas de un projeto ad altra, me pensas konstante pri nov idei, e me indijas la tempo por kompletigar omna. Ica traito mea povas esar frustranta, me savas lo, ma se me ne esus diletanto me ne esus idisto, me ne preparabus texti pri tanta diversa temi por nia revui, forumi e retsitui. Me esus kontisto che granda firmo, ganante multa pekunio, drinkanta, vakancanta, sequanta la programo quale bona konsumero. Ma me es diletanto. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Go back to bed, America. Go back to bed. It is all explained to you now. There should be no question about your government's legitimacy. Go back to bed. Here - here's American Gladiators. Watch that and shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here's fifty-six channels of horseshit. Watch that. You're in the Land of Freedom now. Go back to bed, America. Here's a flag... Go back to bed." - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 11 November 1992 >From: "IdoWiki exportacaji" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] Re: Mil vorti >Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 04:53:29 -0000 > >Kara sioro Moisio, >segun semblo, la responsiva persono pri ca projeto, James Chandler, >cesis laboro pri Mil Vorti. Me rekomendas vu kontakar ilu pri co ante >kontributar ulo. Me anke questionas me pro quo la projeto semblante >haltesis. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1183 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78781 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2004 13:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2004 13:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2004 13:42:54 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BD1dV-0002gT-00; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:38:05 +0200 Received: from [212.114.232.175] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BD1dU-0007Go-00; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:38:04 +0200 Message-ID: <001501c42093$611edb30$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Janna Reunova" , "J M. Rodriguez" , "Igor Wasilewski" , "Hispana Ido- Societo" , "G�nter Schlemminger" , "Gon�alo Neves" , "Ferdinand M�ller" , "Edward Jaskiewicz" , "Dmitri Laptcionak" , "Carmelo Mico" , "yenovk lazian" , "Rapha�l PINSON" , "Peter Toth" , "Morten Svendsen" , "Manfred Welper" , "Manfred Magin" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:37:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.183 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Duesma invito a la internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 16esma e 23esma di julio 2004 en la Ukrainana chefurbo Kiev X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! Per ico ni ankorfoye kordiale invitas omna Idisti e simp= atiseri di la linguo internaciona a la cayarala internaciona Ido-renkontro.= La renkontro eventos dum la tempo inter la 16esma e 23esma di julio 2004 e= n la repozeyo "Kosmos" proxima a la Ukrainana chefurbo Kiev, ube ante kurta= tempo fondesis nova Ido-grupo. La postala adreso dil repozeyo "Kosmos" esa= s: Turbaza "Kosmos" s. Puhivka, Brovarskiy rayon, Kiyivska oblast Ukraina = UA-07413 Por interesemi, qui volunte uzus l'okaziono di longa voyajo a Ki= ev por repozar ibe dum kelka dii aranjesis prerenkontro en la sama repozeyo= dum la tempo inter la 09esma e 16esma di julio 2004. Partoprenanti di mul= ta landi (exemple di West-Europa) bezonas pasporto por voyajanti, qua esos = valida ankore adminime dum duima yaro e visti por enirar ad Ukrainia, qui e= sas recevebla de l'ambasadeyi di Ukrainia. Por obtenar la visti habitanti e= xtere dil Europana Uniono bezonas oficala invitili di Ukraina organizuro o = persono. Ni recevos ca invitili per organizuro. Por realigar ca invitili en= justa tempo esas necesa, ke interesemi sendez la plenigita anunco-formular= o e-poste o letre a Frank Kasper til maxim tarde fine di aprilo 2004, por = ke lu povos preparar listo por l'invitili e sendar ol a Kiev. Por aranjar= la invitili ni adminime bezonas la sequanta informi da omna eventuala part= oprenanti til la 30esma di aprilo 2004: a) Nomo e prenom(o)(i) b) naskodio= c) plena hemal adreso ( segun la pasporto, ne postbuxo!!) d) numero di la = pasporto, valida til L'adreso di Frank Kasper esas: Sioro Frank Kasper PF= 730128 D- 90243 N=FCrnberg Germania e-posto: frank.kasper@ido.li Intere= semi, qui erste pos la 30esma di aprilo 2004 decidos pri partopreno ipsa de= vos sorgar pri l'invitilo e visto!!! La repozeyo "Kosmos" trovesas 15 km = de la metrostaciono Lisova (la finala staciono che estala extremajo dil urb= o Kiev). De ibe on povas vehar per preurbal omnibusi od omnibuseti til la r= epozeyo "Kosmos" (ante la vilajo Puhivka). Ma me opinionas, ke ni povos ren= kontrar omna partoprenanti pos lia arivo en Kiev ed akompanos li til la re= pozeyo. On nur devas anticipe informar me o Janna o Mikaelo pri sua arivo. = Yen esas nia telefon-numeri: Volodimir Hurtovenko - (+38044)536 1858 (de 9 = til 19 kloko) Janna Reunova - (+38044)461 9050 (de 10 til 18 kloko) Mikael= o Lineckiy - (+38044)432 0743 (omnatempe). La kondicioni dil sejorno en la= repozeyo esas suficante bona. On povas lojar en 2-3 lita chambri. La 3-foy= a manjaji omnadie esas nutriva. La sejorno en la repozeyo "Kosmos" kustas = cirkume 15 EURO. (La preco povus esar poke chanjata). La kulturala program= o dum l'Ido-renkontro inkluzas omnadiala exkursi kun vizito di Kieva muzei = ed expozuri, teatri ed eventuale restorerii kun Europana od Ukraniana nacio= nala dishi. On anke povas vizitar la nombroza muzei en la Kieva provinco. = Pri la vetero en Kiev on povas trovar informo che la sequanta retala pagino= : http://www.accuweather.com/adcbin/intlocal_index?reg=3DEU%3BEUROPE&cntr= y=3DEU%3BUR&wxcountry=3DEU%3BUR&wxcity2=3DKIEV La preco di la bileti en= opera teatro esas diversa - de 5 til 100 Euri, depende di la klaso di arti= sti e di la loko en teatro. Normala prezo esas inter 2 til 10 Euri. La sama= preci esas en la drama, muzika teatri. La bileti en cirko valoras de 2 til= 5 Euri. La vizito di kaverni kustas 2 Euri plus kelka Euri por singla muze= o (ibe esas multa diversa muzei). La bileto en kaverni kustas 2 Euri, pluse= on mustas komprar un kandelo (0.1 - 2 Euri). La 2 hora rondvoyajo kun auto= buso tra la tota urbo Kiev kun la guidero kustas 2 Euri. On povas komprar = praktike omno, quan on bezonas en Kiev. Tamen esas rekomendita kunportar ma= nutuki e sapono. Plusa informi pri Kiev generale, teatri, muzei ed altra = vidindaji vizitebla vu trovas che la Anglalinguala ret-situo http://www.uaz= one.net/Kiev.html . Vespere ni projetas organizar la laborkunsidi kun disk= uti inter la partoprenanti di la renkontro. Kara amiki, voluntez kontaktar= me per la E-posto vladh@km.ru o per mea oficeyala telefonilo +38044)536 18= 58, se vi havas questioni e.c. Me esperas, ke ni havos bona renkontro kun= multa partoprenanti. Nome di Kieva Ido- grupo Kordiale Volodimir Hurtov= enko UA-01103, Kijiv 103 ul. Pidvisockogo, 10/110-80 Ukraina From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1184 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47272 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2004 13:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2004 13:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2004 13:50:13 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BD1pB-0005Ge-00; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:50:09 +0200 Received: from [212.114.236.89] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BD1pA-000094-00; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:50:08 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c42095$10b65fe0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Manfred Magin" , "Manfred Welper" , "Morten Svendsen" , "Peter Toth" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_PINSON?= , "yenovk lazian" , "Carmelo Mico" , "Dmitri Laptcionak" , "Edward Jaskiewicz" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ferdinand_M=F6ller?= , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gon=E7alo_Neves?= , =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnter_Schlemminger?= , "Hispana Ido- Societo" , "Igor Wasilewski" , "J M. Rodriguez" , "Janna Reunova" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.186 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Anunc-formularo a la Ido-renkontro 2004 en Kiev X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ANUNCO Per ico me preanuncas mea partopreno ye la internaciona Ido-r= enkontro inter la 16esma e la 23esma di julio 2004 en Kiev (Ukraina). (= Voluntez strekizar la punti por vu ne valida!!) Me venos kun ..... = personi e preferus lojar en .... litizita chambro . Me veno= s per .....................................................................= (Voluntez enskribar vehilo!). Me arivos ye la ....ma di julio 2004= e departos ye la .....ma di julio 2004. Me partoprenos en la repozala pre= renkontro inter la 09esma e 16esma di julio 2004. Mea (Nia) informi por= l'invitilo: Familiala nomo: ..........................................= ...................... Prenom(o)(i): naskodio: ....................= ...................................... hemala adreso: ....................= ...........................................................................= ...........................................................................= ...........................................................................= ..... numero dil pasporto: ............................................= ...........................................................................= ...........................................................................= .............................................. pasporto esas valida til= : .........................................................................= ............... Loko/Dato: = Signaturo(o nomo) Voluntez imprimar la anunc-formularo e pose sendar= ol plenigita tam rapide kam posible per postala letro o per faxo a : F= rank Kasper Postfach 73 01 28 DE-90243 N=FCrnberg Germania Telefono: +4= 99118017429 portebla telefono: +491792922169 Faxo: +49911451051 o per e-= postala mesajo a: frank.kasper@ido.li = Mea (Nia) propozi por la diskuti e.c. esas: v= oluntez turnar!! = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1185 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17423 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2004 17:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2004 17:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp8.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.208) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2004 17:52:58 -0000 Received: from pbncomputer (c53756a67.cable.wanadoo.nl [83.117.106.103]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id DAB73587E7; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:53:04 +0200 (CEST) To: , "IDOlisto" , , , , , , , , , , Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:52:49 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.208 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso 330 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Progreso 330 (januaro-aprilo 2004) es pronta por sendo e balde plenigez la letro-buxi dil ULI-membri ed abonanti. Ka plenigez? YES PLENIGEZ, nam Progreso 330 kontenas 48(!) pagini kun interesiva artikli, poemi e novaji! Kontenajo di Progreso 330: - LA PREZIDANTO PAROLAS - PSIKOPATI EN POVO Jeroen van Bergeijk; tradukita da Hans Stuifbergen - INVITO AL INTERNACIONA IDO-RENKONTRO 2004 - AMOR-TEMO Miguel Fern�ndez Mart�n; tradukita da Gon�alo Neves - AMIKO DI LA MONDO Paul Bowles; tradukita da James Chandler - L' ARBORO MORTINTA Friedrich Porzenheim - KANTO D'ESPERO E DI KONFIDO Friedrich Porzenheim - MEDITI PRI VORTI Gon�alo Neves - TRANSVIV-ARTISTO Guus Luijters; tradukita da Hans Stuifbergen - INTERESIVA INTERLINGUISTIKALA REVUO POR GERMANE PAROLANTI G�nther Anton - LA FLORETO Friedrich Porzenheim - FIBONACCI E LA KUNIKLI Cyd Conner; tradukita da Richard Stevenson - LINGUALA MEDITI Gon�alo Neves - LA BIBLIOTEKO DI BABEL Jorge Luis Borges; tradukita da James Chandler - LA NUBO Friedrich Porzenheim - LANDAL REPREZENTERI ------------------------------- Progreso-329 (septembro-decembro 2003) ed altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, es nun lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Hans Stuifbergen e Ronald Bijtenhoorn, La redakteri di Progreso --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.657 / Virus Database: 422 - Release Date: 13-4-04 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1186 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33913 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2004 14:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2004 14:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2004 14:04:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.123] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2004 14:03:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:03:01 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 611 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: mea kanditato X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar amiki, Mea fratulo esas hike en Finlando kom kandidato en l'elekti dil parlamento Europana. Me konvinkis ilu pri la fakto ke Europana Uniono (e tota mondo) bezonas un komuna linguo por komunikeso. Nun il voluntas komencar sua parolo-parto pri la linguala stando en l'Uniono kun un frazo en Ido. Yen la frazo tradukita da me por ilu: "Kar askolteri! L'elekti dil parlamento Europana esas importanti por Finlando por ke la legi dekretesas en la parlamento ed oli adjuntesos aden la legi di Finlando." (od "aden la Finlandana legi".) Ka me skribis sate bone por publika uzado? Amikale Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1187 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11340 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2004 15:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2004 15:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep18-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.13) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2004 15:27:58 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep18-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040415152412.OSJZ11733.amsfep18-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:24:12 +0200 Message-ID: <008001c422fd$b91a37f0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:24:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.13 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] mea kanditato X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Arto Moisio, Es ecelanta, savante ke Ido parolesos en la parlamento Europana, da vua fratulo!!! Advere, me es fiera, savar ke posible Ido-vorti sonos en l' edifici dil EU. Gratuli! Vua frazo es bone tradukita, ultre du mikra eroreti, vice "importanti", dicez: "...esas importantA por Finlando...". Anke ne uzez "aden", ma "a" (do: "...oli adjuntesos a la legi di Finlando / ... a la Finlandana legi..." [segun vua prefero]). Saluti amikala, Hans Stuifbergen, Amsterdam -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere > Kar amiki, > > Mea fratulo esas hike en Finlando kom kandidato en l'elekti dil > parlamento Europana. Me konvinkis ilu pri la fakto ke Europana > Uniono (e tota mondo) bezonas un komuna linguo por > komunikeso. Nun il voluntas komencar sua parolo-parto pri la > linguala stando en l'Uniono kun un frazo en Ido. Yen la frazo > tradukita da me por ilu: > > "Kar askolteri! L'elekti dil parlamento Europana esas importanti > por Finlando por ke la legi dekretesas en la parlamento ed oli > adjuntesos aden la legi di Finlando." (od "aden la Finlandana > legi".) > > Ka me skribis sate bone por publika uzado? > > Amikale > Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1188 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51988 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2004 16:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2004 16:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2004 16:10:33 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.209] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BE9Rg-000877-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:10:32 +0200 Received: from [217.9.32.100] (helo=eberhardilo) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BE9Rf-00045N-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:10:31 +0200 Message-ID: <001301c42305$186fb840$642009d9@eberhardilo> To: References: <008001c422fd$b91a37f0$acef5dd5@azalia> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:16:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.171 From: "Eberhard Scholz" Subject: Re: [linguo] mea kanditato X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976 X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kara samidealisto Arto Moisio , inter la multa bonega aktivesi ed idei praktikebla vua fratulo es fortuno por nia bela linguo. Me esperas ke ilu elektesos. Ni en Berlin probas ganar la parlamentanino siorino d-ro Sybille-Yvonne Kaufmann kom simpatiozo. Amikale Eberhard Scholz Berlin From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1189 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8202 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 16:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2004 16:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60803.mail.yahoo.com) (216.155.196.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2004 16:39:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20040416163844.13804.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.92.169.76] by web60803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:38:44 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.155.196.66 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [linguo] mea kanditato X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ne "por ke", me opinionas, ma "pro ke". Arto Moisio skribis:Kar amiki, Mea fratulo esas hike en Finlando kom kandidato en l'elekti dil parlamento Europana. Me konvinkis ilu pri la fakto ke Europana Uniono (e tota mondo) bezonas un komuna linguo por komunikeso. Nun il voluntas komencar sua parolo-parto pri la linguala stando en l'Uniono kun un frazo en Ido. Yen la frazo tradukita da me por ilu: "Kar askolteri! L'elekti dil parlamento Europana esas importanti por Finlando por ke la legi dekretesas en la parlamento ed oli adjuntesos aden la legi di Finlando." (od "aden la Finlandana legi".) Ka me skribis sate bone por publika uzado? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1190 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66139 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 19:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2004 19:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.77) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2004 19:24:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:24:51 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.74 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:24:50 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:24:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2004 19:24:51.0258 (UTC) FILETIME=[7D2B21A0:01C423E8] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.77 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Hockey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Linguolistani Me bezonas Ido-vorto por la sporto 'hockey'. Ol ne es trovebla en mea vortolibri, ma me sentas ke ol devas existar. Kad ulu savas ol? Predanko! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments Will hum about mine ears; and sometime voices - Shakespeare, The Tempest _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1191 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2829 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 21:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2004 21:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2004 21:15:33 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040416211532.GLTN18840.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:15:32 +0200 Message-ID: <01b801c423f7$f6f126b0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <20040416163844.13804.qmail@web60803.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:15:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] mea kanditato X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Yes, Don es justa. Quankam anke es posibla: "...por ke la legi dekretesEZ..." (subjuntivo). E nun ke ni ankore es traktanta la mikra texto: vice duopla 'ad', on darfas dicar: "...ed oli juntesos a la legi..." (vice "adjuntar a") Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere > Ne "por ke", me opinionas, ma "pro ke". > > Arto Moisio skribis:Kar amiki, > > Mea fratulo esas hike en Finlando kom kandidato en l'elekti dil > parlamento Europana. Me konvinkis ilu pri la fakto ke Europana > Uniono (e tota mondo) bezonas un komuna linguo por > komunikeso. Nun il voluntas komencar sua parolo-parto pri la > linguala stando en l'Uniono kun un frazo en Ido. Yen la frazo > tradukita da me por ilu: > > "Kar askolteri! L'elekti dil parlamento Europana esas importanti > por Finlando por ke la legi dekretesas en la parlamento ed oli > adjuntesos aden la legi di Finlando." (od "aden la Finlandana > legi".) > > Ka me skribis sate bone por publika uzado? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1192 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80186 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 23:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2004 23:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pierce.numericable.net) (80.236.0.150) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2004 23:22:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 25846 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2004 23:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.107.136]) (envelope-sender ) by pierce.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 16 Apr 2004 23:21:52 -0000 Message-ID: <00a801c42409$ff861760$886bdc51@landloic> To: References: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:24:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.150 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Hockey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara linguolistani, Me anke ne trovis Ido-vorto por la sporto 'hockey', forsan *hokeo povus konvenar ? Kad existas traduko por basket-ball, rugby, hand-ball e base-ball ? Kordiale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "James Chandler" � : Envoy� : vendredi 16 avril 2004 21:24 Objet : [linguo] Hockey > Kara Linguolistani > > Me bezonas Ido-vorto por la sporto 'hockey'. Ol ne es trovebla en mea > vortolibri, ma me sentas ke ol devas existar. Kad ulu savas ol? Predanko! > > Kordiale, James Chandler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1193 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85487 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2004 01:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2004 01:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2004 01:50:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.248] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2004 01:50:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:50:31 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 808 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "vaganto1" Subject: Re: Hockey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Esperantlingue: hokeo Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > Kara Linguolistani > > Me bezonas Ido-vorto por la sporto 'hockey'. Ol ne es trovebla en mea > vortolibri, ma me sentas ke ol devas existar. Kad ulu savas ol? Predanko! > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@h... > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > > Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments > Will hum about mine ears; and sometime voices > - Shakespeare, The Tempest > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1194 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91796 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2004 05:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2004 05:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web5-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.245) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2004 05:09:49 -0000 Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by web5-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040417050946.VKGW3424.web5-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:09:46 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040417050946.QIHS3175.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:09:46 +1200 To: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:09:46 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040417050946.QIHS3175.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.245 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Hockey X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara James, Yes, Esperanto havas "hokeo", ma la pronunco es "hokEo". Ka en Ido es "HOKyo" o "hokEo"? Forsan plu bona vorto en Ido es "hokio" kun pronunco "HOKyo". Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2004/04/17 Sat AM 07:24:50 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] Hockey > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1195 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 6172 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2004 09:28:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2004 09:28:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr4.sis.it) (217.72.32.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2004 09:28:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 28186 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2004 11:33:15 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO nardinic) (217.72.33.117) by 0 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2004 11:33:15 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c42527$ccca9fc0$752148d9@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:30:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.27 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Justa sento X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< Me bezonas Ido-vorto por la sporto 'hockey'. Ol ne es trovebla en mea vortolibri, ma me sentas ke ol devas existar. Kad ulu savas ol? Predanko! Kordiale, James Chandler >>> Vu "sentas" juste. "Hokeo" trovesas en LISTO DI NOVA VORTI, labor-dokumento propozita da la Linguala Komitato, sendita da la Sekretario por Linguala Questioni Camiel de COCK, kom Suplemento a Progreso N. 290 (1990), por komento da la lekteri. Pos la komenti, esis expektata eventuala adopto da la Direktanta Komitato. Semble, ta Listo havis ne-formala aprobo da Roger Moureaux (1989), anciena Sekretario por Linguala Questioni. En la Listo trovesas inter altro anke la vorto "komputoro"... Plura vorti dil Listo oficaligesis da R. Carnaghan (Lexiko di Nova Vorti, 2001): galaxio, gulfo, pijamo, milda, taxio... ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1196 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51060 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2004 09:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2004 09:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.173) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2004 09:41:01 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BFVGq-0005de-00; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:40:56 +0200 Received: from [212.114.234.30] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BFVGp-0005ir-00; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:40:55 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01c425f2$68425ef0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Jennny" , "Manfred Welper" , "G�nter Schlemminger" , "Robert Pontnau" , "yenovk lazian" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:40:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.173 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Preparado dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en Francia / Questioni a l'Idisti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! Pos tri semani me departos a Francia okazione dil Ido-re= nkontreto aranjita di Jean Martignon inter la 22esma e 24esma di mayo en Ba= gnoles de l'Orne. Me uzos ca okaziono por antee vizitar nia samideano Rober= t Pontnau en Toulouse inter la 12esma e 19esma di mayo. Dum la yaro 2003 es= is propozita du loki por aranjar Ido-renkontro dum 2004, nome Francia e Kie= v (Ukraina). Me lore aranjis votado per "Idolisto" e dum la konfero en Gros= sbothen pri la du loki. Samtempe me propozis, ke on aranjus la renkontro du= m 2005 en la loko, qua ne ganis la votado. Do, la majoritato di votindi vot= is por Kiev e konseque la renkontro dum 2004 eventos ibe. Segun mea propozo= la renkontro dum 2005 devez eventar en Francia. Jean Martignon intetempe p= ropozis aranjar ol en loko en Sud-Francia. Do, me intencas uzar l'okaziono = di mea voyajo ad ibe dum mayo por regardar apta loki. Pos ke me ja question= is la membri dil Direktanta Komitato di ULI pri lia opiniono me ankore ante= mea departo anke deziras questionar l'altra Idisti. Pro to me pregas vi om= na respondar la sequanta tzri questioni: 1. Ka la propozo aranjar Ido-renk= ontro dum 2005 en Sud-Francia segun vua opiniono esas bona? 2. Kande segun= vua opiniono devus eventar la renkontro? (monato) 3. Ka vu intencus parto= prenar en ca renkontro? Me tre vartas via respondi e predankas pro via ku= nlaboro. Kordiala saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper frank.kasper@ido.li From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1197 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2004 13:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2004 13:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2004 13:58:57 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.179] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BFZGP-0003Ck-00; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:56:45 +0200 Received: from [217.199.69.137] (helo=eberhardilo) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BFZGP-0006bq-00; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:56:45 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c42617$1a707f20$8945c7d9@eberhardilo> To: , "Jennny" , "Manfred Welper" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnter_Schlemminger?= , "Robert Pontnau" , "yenovk lazian" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "MailinglisteIdopagino" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" References: <000f01c425f2$68425ef0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:02:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.186 From: "Eberhard Scholz" Subject: Re: [idostab] Preparado dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en Francia / Questioni al'Idisti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976 X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kara Frank , naturale me esas voyajema anke a suda Francia. La monato dil renkontro esas ne importanta por me. Plu importanta por me esas la kusti di sejorno ibe. La maxim importanta evento ma esas renkontror e interparolor esperinde la kapabla e diligenta Hispanani inter l�altra aktiva samideani de diversa landi Europan. Se me standos bone, lore me certe esos prezenta ibe. Kordiala saluti Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1198 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59006 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2004 00:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2004 00:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.146) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 00:13:44 -0000 Received: from web4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040421001341.PMPW1316.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@web4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:13:41 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040421001341.GNZX13120.web4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:13:41 +1200 To: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 12:13:41 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040421001341.GNZX13120.web4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.146 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Justa sento X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Carlo' Danko por l'informo pri nova vorti. Me opinionas ke "hokio" kun pronunco "HOK-yo" es plu apta e plu naturala kam "hokeo" kun pronunco di "hok-E-o" Anke la vorto "komputoro" es plu apta ma bezonas nova verbo "komputar". Semblas utila ke multa teknologiala vorti, qui havas angla finalo "-er" uzus Ido-finalo di "-oro". La uzado di "-ero" por ta senco es komprenende neposibla en Ido. Altra vorti quin vu citas semblas ja aceptita. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Carlo Nardini" > Date: 2004/04/18 Sun PM 09:30:29 GMT+12:00 > To: "Linguolisto" > Subject: [linguo] Justa sento > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1199 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81800 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2004 02:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2004 02:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2004 02:16:56 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200404210216.2bb1; Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:16:43 GMT Send-By: 24.202.199.174 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 02:16:43 GMT Message-id: <200404210216.2bb1@th00.idoo.com> if-filter0: N X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: aktualajo pri hokeo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kara amiki, Pro ke vi skribis pri ta sporto, me deziras savigar a vi ke g= randa joyo propagas inter l'urbani di Montreal : la hokeo*-esquado (o hokyo= *-esquado, segun via prefero) di Montreal, nomesata "le Canadien", ganis ye= lundio sua plaso che la mi-finalo di la Naciona Hokeo*-Federo (A: National= Hockey League). La NHF unionas omna esquadi di l'USA e di Kanada ed organi= zas granda konkurso ube la vinkero ganas la famoza Stanley-kupo. Do l'esq= uado di Montreal ganis ye lundio kontre le "Bruins" di Boston e ludos de nu= n kontre la "Lightning" di Tampa Bay. Existas granda espero che la partisan= i Montrealana. L'esquado di Montreal ne ganis de nombroza yari la Stanley-k= upo, dum ke la tradiciono di hokeo* esas tre importanta en Kebek. Onu dicas= ke ta sporto naskis en ca lando, originante de anciena sporto ludita da l'= unesma populi Amerikana (A: first nations, natives, F: am=E9rindiens). Ami= kale, Christophe GAUBERT ___[ Pub ]______________________________________= ______________________ Inscrivez-vous gratuitement sur Tandaime, Le site de= rencontres ! http://rencontre.rencontres.com/index.php?origine=3D4 ______= _______________________________________________________________ Envie de di= scuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T=E9l=E9charger MSN Messenger http://www.i= france.com/_reloc/m la 1=E8re messagerie instantan=E9e de France From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1200 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19710 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 05:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2004 05:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 05:11:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2004 05:10:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 05:10:38 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 575 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.66 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: re persono o kozo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara samideani, Quankam la erudita Carlo Nardini sugestas "quu" por personi, nia frua fondanti kredis ke on ne bezonas tala formo. Semblas ke ne existas konfundo kande on uzas "qua" por personi o por kozi. Sen dubite Ido havas utila serio di vorti kun sufixo "u": "altru", "nulu" ed "ulu". Kande me serchas mea latina dicionario me trovas la rara vorto "quum = cum", do posible olim la sono "qu" = "k" (kom la hispana "qu" avan "e" ed "i"). Altra Romana lingui ne semblas uzar "qu + u" e por me, la kombinuro "quu" es tre leda! Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1201 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90344 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2004 14:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2004 14:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.30) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2004 14:08:48 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-3-37.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.14.196.37]) by mwinf0101.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id BDA78C00053B; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:08:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <04ad01c42b98$410d23a0$25c40e50@arno> To: , , , Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:10:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.30 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Nova interretala serchilo (Amazon) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean http://www.A9.com Amikal saluti Jean Cassignol From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1202 Return-Path: X-Sender: bonavoyoalido@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77943 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2004 07:33:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2004 07:33:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web41603.mail.yahoo.com) (66.218.93.103) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 07:33:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20040427073346.24553.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.44.34.126] by web41603.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:33:46 PDT Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:33:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Linguolisto MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.93.103 From: Shigeru Yoshida Subject: Quu, qui, qua, qui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=181723238 X-Yahoo-Profile: bonavoyoalido Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara samideani Ka hike permisesas diskutar libere pri Ido o la Sankta Libro KGD? Altraloke es preske despermisate dicar ulo sugestoza di reformo kun intenco o kun desatenteso e me sentas me sufokata. Ulu mem dicas ke me intencas subversar Ido. Ha, ha, ha. Me simple volas lernar Ido. Me es poligloto senpartiala, kelke simpatioza ma nule tam fanatika nek por Esperanto, nek por Ido nek por Interlingua kam kulminar ulu. Omni es mea amiki. Me esperas ke hike on DARFAS questionar. Yen mea unesma questiono: Me ja observis uli hike diskutar l'eventual uzo di "quu". Ulu altra dicas ke to sonas desbele. Me konsentas ke "quu", quan ni ne kustumas audar, tendencas sonar lede mem a me. Ma segun mea opiniono esus plu bona por ni havar ula vorti por distingar inter "who" e "what". Mea propozo e ne impozo es uzar "qui" por amba singularo e pluralo. Por pure pruvar e ne por apogar un bona exemplo observata en Esperanto, ula esperantisto dicis a me por defendar su kontre mea aserto pri l'avantajo di Ido en la mediopasivigita sistemo verbala, ke anke en Esperanto posiblas dicar "farantis, farantas, farontos, farintis, farintus". La interesa es, ke me ja dicis a mea esperanta amiko usona, ke esus plu bona facar tale. Se ico es fakto, do Esperanto evoluas mem nun. Se ita esperantisto dicis tale nur por eskapar ek la desfacila situeso di argumento, do la fakto restas, ke ilu adminime vidas en ica idiotismo idala un certen avantajo. Esez quale esus, me, kom idisto timas, ke la absenteso di unsenca questionala pronomo singulara maskula povas bone esar un buon apuntajo da kritiko, desestimo o ridikulizo. Amikale Shigeru Yoshida --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1203 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@birdseye.view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11225 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2004 08:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2004 08:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 08:46:20 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i3R8k7to003645 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:16:08 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i3R8k7wg003642 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:16:07 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:16:07 +0930 (CST) X-X-Sender: mtw@chameleon.view.net.au To: Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <20040427073346.24553.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20040427073346.24553.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Quu, qui, qua, qui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=8823137 Ye 2004-04-27 00:33 -0700, Shigeru Yoshida skribis: > Kara samideani > > Ka hike permisesas diskutar libere pri Ido o la Sankta Libro KGD? Sendubite. E vu pri vua opiniono ed altri pri single lia opinioni. > Altraloke es preske despermisate dicar ulo sugestoza di reformo kun > intenco o kun desatenteso e me sentas me sufokata. Ulu mem dicas ke > me intencas subversar Ido. Ha, ha, ha. Ka hike permisesas opinionar ke vu intencas subversar Ido? > Me simple volas lernar Ido. Me es poligloto senpartiala, kelke Do, pro quo vu komencis tante sarkasme? Pro quo "santa"? > ... > "what". Mea propozo e ne impozo es uzar "qui" por amba singularo e > pluralo. "-i" montras la pluralo. Vu darfas havar vua opiniono, ed altri darfas ridetar pri ol. > ... > Esez quale esus, me, kom idisto timas, ke la absenteso di unsenca > questionala pronomo singulara maskula povas bone esar un buon > apuntajo da kritiko, desestimo o ridikulizo. Ol ne aspektas kom problemo a me. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson -- Lu dispersis le superba kordie. Lu destronizis la potenti ed elevis la humili. La hungrantin Lu plenigis de bonaji e la richin Lu forigis indijanta. (Lukas 1:51a-53, tr. Kauling) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1204 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71620 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2004 02:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2004 02:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2004 02:28:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.119] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2004 02:25:57 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 02:25:54 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 913 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.65 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: La vorto "swichar" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Hans, Me jus remarkas vua sugesto, "enswichar" ed "ekswichar" (la lumo). Desfortunoze existas mikra problemo nam segun "Nova Vorti" da de Cock, la vorto "swichar" (1926) = chanjar la directiono di la elekto-fluo o filo-reto. Do "swichar" havas simila senco kam "komutar". Ol ne signifikas A: (electric) switch, F: couper le courant; H: interruptor t.e. startar o haltar la elektro od altra fluo, ma nure chanjar la directiono. Existas du problemi:. (1) En Usa-angla, la vorto "switch" = la releto di fervoyo qua movas por ke la treno vehez de un relo ad altra. La vorto "swichar" semblas havar ta senco. En Britania ta releto = "point". (2) Posible, "enswichar" ed "ekswichar" nun havas nova senco, En la dicionario (Angla-Ido) da Dyer (il esis Usano) "to switch (electricity)" = "cirkuito-klozar". Tamen "swichar" es plu kurta, ma forsan bezonas linguala diskuto Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1205 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17505 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2004 20:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2004 20:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ad.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.6) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2004 20:18:24 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ad.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i3UKIKqG024918 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 16:16:06 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200404301617_MC3-1-80D9-D9A4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.6 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] La vorto "swichar" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Richard, Roze (pagino 61), ja en 1937, donis: "swich-ar, mix. D schal= ten, E to switch, F commuter, I collegare, S commutar; derivuri: en-swichar= , ek-swichar; swich-ilo, swich-ili, en-swichili, ek-swichili; D ein-, aussc= halten; Schalter, Ein-, Asuschalter." Tale "en-swichar" =3D Angl. "to swit= ch on, turn on" =3D Fr. "allumer" =3D Germ., "einschalten", ed "ek-swichar"= =3D Angl. "to switch off, turn off" =3D Fr. "=E9teindre, fermer" =3D Germ.= "ausschalten". Remarkez ke la Franca "fermer" (klozar) havas senco tote k= ontrea a ta di Angl. "close (an electrical circuit)" e Fr. "fermer (un circ= uit =E9lectr.)". Semblas a me ke uzo dil vorti "apertar" e "klozar" inter n= e-elektristi esas nekonsilinda kande koncernas aparati elektrala, pro evide= nta danjero di miskompreno. Me kredas ke Pesch e de Cock miskomprenis la v= orto "swichar", donante ad ol senco preske sama kam "komutar". Semblas ke d= e Cock sequis Pesch, tamen ne tote exakte. Me supozas ke li eroris. Kad irg= u havas informo qua konfirmus lia opiniono? Se ne, me propozas ke ni adhere= z al senco praktikala donita da Roze. Robert. _______ >Kara Hans, Me jus= remarkas vua sugesto, "enswichar" ed "ekswichar" (la lumo). Desfortunoze e= xistas mikra problemo nam segun "Nova Vorti" da de Cock, la vorto "swichar= " (1926) =3D chanjar la directiono di la elekto-fluo o filo-reto. Do "swic= har" havas simila senco kam "komutar". Ol ne signifikas A: (electric) swi= tch, F: couper le courant; H: interruptor t.e. startar o haltar la elekt= ro od altra fluo, ma nure chanjar la directiono. Existas du problemi:. (= 1) En Usa-angla, la vorto "switch" =3D la releto di fervoyo qua movas por = ke la treno vehez de un relo ad altra. La vorto "swichar" semblas havar ta= senco. En Britania ta releto =3D "point". (2) Posible, "enswichar" ed "eks= wichar" nun havas nova senco, En la dicionario (Angla-Ido) da Dyer (il es= is Usano) "to switch (electricity)" =3D "cirkuito-klozar". Tamen "swichar"= es plu kurta, ma forsan bezonas linguala diskuto Amikale, Richard = S. < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1206 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22772 invoked from network); 1 May 2004 04:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2004 04:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2004 04:49:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.178] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2004 04:49:11 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:49:08 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 739 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.81 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: re vorto "swichar" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert, Danko por vua helpema komenti pri la vorto "swichar". Semblas ke problemo existas pro la tri senci di A: to switch, (1) A: to switch = remplasar (2) A: to switch (on, off) = guvernar (elektro) fluo (3) A: to switch (Usa) = chanjar la sinso di treno per releto. Posible la vorti "remplasar" e "komutar" montras plu vera senco. La vorti "enswichar" ed "ekswichar"segun Roze es utila por la guvernado di elektro, gaso od aquo, e la aparato es "swichilo". Forsan la franca vorti "allumer" ed "eteindre" venas de la dii di kandelo e gas-lumo! La konfuzigo inter "aperta" o "klozita" cirkuiti meritas rezolvo. En elektroniko, l'angla "open circuit" (aperta cirkuito) = brecho ed elektro-kurento ne fluas. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1207 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 20417 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 16:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 16:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fr4.sis.it) (217.72.32.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 16:41:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 18495 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 18:51:06 +0100 Received: from unknown (HELO sis) (217.72.33.80) by 0 with SMTP; 2 May 2004 18:51:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c43065$a9ae0240$502148d9@it.sis.it> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:50:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.72.32.27 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Supozo suportata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus R. Stevenson startis hike diskuto pri "swichar": <<< ...existas mikra problemo, nam segun de Cock, la vorto "swichar" (1926) = chanjar la direciono di la elektro-fluo... Do "swichar" havas simila senco kam "komutar" >>> R. Carnaghan duris la diskuto: <<< ...me kredas ke Pesch e de Cock miskomprenis la vorto "swichar", donante ad ol senco preske sama kam "komutar". Me SUPOZAS ke li eroris. Kad irgu havas informo qua konfirmus lia opiniono? Se ne, me propozas ke ni adherez al senco praktikala donita da Roze, 1937, pag. 61. >>> Mea informi suportas semblante la SUPOZO da R.C. ### UNESMA INFORMO ### "MONDO, Revuo por la L.I. IDO", 1923, pag. 201-5. Linguala questioni. Elektroteknikala termini. - K. Feder. [Vortope]. """ --- SWICHAR [E] = D. schalten; E. to switch; F. commuter; I. collegare; R. vklyuchit, vyikluchit ili perekluchit; S. commutar. Def.: Nepermanante insertar objekto (o la *korento) en cirkuito, o desinsertar ol ek cirkuito per specala aparati (swichili). Pro manko di internaciona vorto oportas prenar la Angla. "Shaltar" (D) esas ne-apta pro ke ol havas anke la signifiko di konektar (vid. ica). "Komutar" uzata da F. e S. bezonesas por altra nociono (vid. komutar). On derivus: --- EN-SWICHAR = D. einschalten; E. to switch on, to cut in; F. mettre dans le circuit; I. mettere in circuito; R vklynchit; S. intercalar en circuito. --- EK-SWICHAR = D. ausschalten; E. to switch off, to cut out; F. mettre hors circuit; I. disinserire, togliere dal circuito; R vyikluchit; S. desconectar, interrumpir, abrir una communicaci�n. ---SWICH-ILO = D. Schalter; E. switch; F. commutateur, interrupteur; I. commutatore, inseritore; R vyikluchatel ili perekluchatel; S. commutador, interruptor. A la swichili apartenas la enswichili e la ekswichili. --- EN-SWICH-ILO = D. Einschalter; E. switch; F. conjoncteur, interrupteur; I. interruttore, inseritore; R. vklyuchatel; S. interruptor. --- EK-SWICH-ILO = D. Ausschalter; E. circuit breaker, cut-out, switch; F. interrupteur, disjoncteur; I. interruttore; R. vyiklyuchatel; S. interruptor. La fakto ke plura lingui uzas "interrupt-" por "ek-swich-" povus sugestar la selekto di "interrupt-" por ta ideo. Ma, ultre ke "swich-" furnisas homogena serio di derivaji e facila kompozuri, "interrupt-" ne esas uzebla pri objekti insertenda. On swichas voltmetro en (ek) la cirkuito; en-, ek-swichar voltmetro.""" ### DUESMA INFORMO ### "Internaciona RADIO-LEXIKO" da Feder e Nordin, Stockolm 1924. [Sinteze]. """ EKSWICHAR...ENSWICHAR... SWICHAR...nepermanante insertar o desinsertar objekto (o la korento) en cirkuito per specala aparati (swichili). SWICHILO... aparato por apertar o klozar elektrala cirkuito... ... ek-swichilo, en-swichilo, karbon-swichilo, preso-swichilo, rapid-swichilo ... swichilo automata, chefa, dukultela, dupola...""". ---------- Me ne studiis la problemo, ma me sentas ke "swichar" povus/devus retenar kelk-maniere anke la ideo di "chanjo", utila anke figurale. Exemple, hike en Italia (konjekte ank altr-ube, forsan omn-ube) ye la banko, se on movas pekunio de un koloko ad altru, bankisti dicas ke on facas "switch" o "switching" (swicho). ---------- Kelka monati ante nun, parolante pri verbi ergativa, dum sat interesiva diskuto che Linguolisto, me anuncis sendo di mea esayo pri ta temo a Progreso. Regrete, l'esayo sendita ne aparabas en la revuo. Evidente la redakteri ne judikis ol apta por publikigesar (forsan tro longa e abstraktala). Kaze ke kelku ek la frendi* [Persiko] esabus interesata, me exkuzas me avan lu. Nur, me expektabus kelka expliko da Hans Stuifbergen, a +quu me sendis sur-papera skribito. ----------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1208 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88517 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 17:31:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 17:31:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 17:31:36 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200405021728.265a; Sun, 2 May 2004 17:28:38 GMT Send-By: 24.202.199.174 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 17:28:38 GMT Message-id: <200405021728.265a@th00.idoo.com> if-filter0: N X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Dezinenco di adjektivi ed adverbi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kar amiki, Onu toleras la trunkigo di la dezinenco di adjektivi ed adverbi= , t.e. onu povas uzar adjektivi kun o sen -a, ed adverbi kun o sen -e. Kad = existas risko di konfundo ? Exemple : 1) Ni timas nun ataki. Ka onu devas= komprenar "ni timas nune ataki" o "ni timas nuna ataki" ? To ne esas la sa= ma senco ! 2) Li konstruktis proxim urbi. Ka onu devas komprenar "li konstr= uktis proxime urbi" o "li konstruktis proxima urbi" ? Me flaras ambigueso = ! Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT _________________________________________= ____________________________ Un mot doux =E0 envoyer? Une sortie cin=E9 =E0= organiser? Faites le en temps r=E9el avec MSN Messenger! C'est gratuit! = http://ifrance.com/_reloc/m ___[ Pub ]____________________________________= ________________________ Inscrivez-vous gratuitement sur Tandaime, Le site = de rencontres ! http://rencontre.rencontres.com/index.php?origine=3D4 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1209 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91871 invoked from network); 2 May 2004 19:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2004 19:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep18-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.13) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2004 19:16:22 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep18-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040502191618.BVNQ1119.amsfep18-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sun, 2 May 2004 21:16:18 +0200 Message-ID: <012b01c43079$f2491b70$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <000501c43065$a9ae0240$502148d9@it.sis.it> Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 21:16:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.13 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Supozo suportata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Carlo Nardini, > Kelka monati ante nun, parolante pri verbi ergativa, dum sat interesiva > diskuto che Linguolisto, me anuncis sendo di mea esayo pri ta temo a > Progreso. > Regrete, l'esayo sendita ne aparabas en la revuo. Evidente la redakteri ne > judikis ol apta por publikigesar (forsan tro longa e abstraktala). > Kaze ke kelku ek la frendi* [Persiko] esabus interesata, me exkuzas me avan > lu. > Nur, me expektabus kelka expliko da Hans Stuifbergen, a +quu me sendis > sur-papera skribito. Me regretas ke existas miskompreno. Vua artiklo atingis ni (la redakterio di Progreso) tro tarda por ankore insertar en Progreso nr. 330. Do, Ronald Bijtenhoorn, qua kompozas la pagini, ja preparas l' artiklo por insertar en nr. 331. Cetere, ni judikas vua artiklo kom tre apta por Progreso, e nule deziris ofensar vu ne-konfirminte la recevo dil artiklo. Me esperas ke vu povez exkuzar me pro l' incidento. Ultre to, me dankas vu e Robert Carnaghan por la suporto di mea propozo 'enswichar' ed 'ekswichar', di qui me sempre supozis ke esis oficala termini. Saluti amikala, Hans St.. -- - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - IDO, LINGUO INTERNACIONA http://www.ido.li/index.html - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1210 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24695 invoked from network); 3 May 2004 20:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 May 2004 20:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.132) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 May 2004 20:07:18 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ab.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i43K7Iq6010383 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 3 May 2004 16:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 16:05:36 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200405031606_MC3-1-8182-A125@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.132 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Dezinenco di adjektivi ed adverbi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 On darfas omisar, kande apta, la dezinenco "a" di adjektivo, ma on ne darfas omisar la dezinenco "e" di adverbo. La problemo desaparas ante arivo! Robert. >Kar amiki, Onu toleras la trunkigo di la dezinenco di adjektivi ed adverbi, t.e. onu povas uzar adjektivi kun o sen -a, ed adverbi kun o sen -e. Kad existas risko di konfundo ? Exemple : 1) Ni timas nun ataki. Ka onu devas komprenar "ni timas nune ataki" o "ni timas nuna ataki" ? To ne esas la sama senco ! 2) Li konstruktis proxim urbi. Ka onu devas komprenar "li konstruktis proxime urbi" o "li konstruktis proxima urbi" ? Me flaras ambigueso ! Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1211 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61184 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 02:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 02:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 02:42:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 May 2004 02:42:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 02:42:49 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 871 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.88 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: La "swichar" grupo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kar amiki, Me prizas la komenti da nia samideano, Carlo Nardini, nam il evidente havas frua Idala libri e revui e povas citar diversa diskuti e sugesti. La dicionarii donas kelke konfuza senci por "swichar". La uzado di "swichar", "enswichar", "ekswichar" e "swichilo", segun "Mondo" (1923) semblas utila por la guvernado di elektro-kurento. (Ed elektro esas ubiqua, hodie). L'altra senco di "swichar", t.e. "chanjar" od "komutar" aparas en dicionarii sen klarigeso. En Usa "switch" = en Britania "point" = moyeno chanjar la sinso di treno. Anke en Britania, " to commute" havas la senco, hodie, voyajar de hemo a distanta laboreyo, e ne reale = la senco F: commuter (komutar). Do ni bezonas oficala agnosko di "swichar" por teknologiala uzado e forsan altra vorto (komutar?) por la senco = "chanjar" (de un stando a l'altra). Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1212 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7660 invoked from network); 4 May 2004 21:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2004 21:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.132) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2004 21:14:32 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ab.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i44LE5xV007279 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 4 May 2004 17:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 17:12:02 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200405041713_MC3-1-8196-A37E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.132 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Franca tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Me esos gratitudoza se ulu povas insertar (o kontrolar e korfirmar o korekt= igar, segun bezono) Franca tradukuri por la sequanta POSIBLA nova vorti pro= pozebla. Esas tre importanta, kande vorto havas plu kam un senco, ne nur d= onar ta vorto kom tradukuro, ma anke indikar qua senco dil vorto koresponda= s a ta dil Idala vorto. Multa danko. Robert. __________ A=3Dangla; F=3D= franca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto; L= =3Dlatina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]=3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta V= orti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos kursive= abomaso / quaresma fako di stomako di rumifero (*omaso esas triesma fako)= / A: abomasum F: ? I: abomaso, caglio E: abomaso Ariano / adepto di *Aria= nismo / A: Arian [adherent of Arianism] F: ? E: Ariano *Bashkir.a / pri la= populo partikulara di *Bashkiria / A: Bashkir [adj.] F: ? bachkir, ? des B= achkirs H: bashkir E: Bas^kira *galag.o / mamifero Afrikana, simila a *lor= iso / A: bushbaby, galago F: ? galago G: Buschbaby H: g=E1lago I: galagone = E: galago L: Galago hidrofono / sorto di mikrofono subaqua / A: hydrophone= F: ? H: hidr=F3fono I: idrofono E: hidrofono *higroskopik.a / qua tendenc= as absorbar aquo del aero. F&S havas "*higroskopa" ma (nun) existas "higros= kopo" (aparato) / A: hygroscopic [tending to absorb water from the air] F: = ? G: hygroskopisch, feuchtigkeitanziehend H: higrosc=F3pico I: igroscopico = *hipoxi.o / manko di oxigeno atinganta la tisui / A: hypoxia F: ? G: Hypox= ie I: ipossia ilmenito / erco / A: ilmenite F: ? H: ilmenita, hierro titan= ado, crichtonita I: ilmenite E: ilmenito *inflacion.ism.o / politiko di *i= nflaciono / A: inflationism F: ? G: Inflationismus I: inflazionismo E: infl= aciismo *intub.ar / insertar tubo aden organo [vorto teknikala pri medicin= o] / A: to intubate F: ? H: intubar, entubar I: intubare [med.] *kapibar.o= / mamifero di sud-Amerika, maxim granda rodero / A: capybara, carpincho F:= ? H: capibara, carpincho I: capibara, maiale d'acqua E: kapibaro L: Hydroc= hoerus hydrochaeris {SO}. Hydrocoerus capybara {E} kasiterito / mineralo, = oxido (e fonto) di stano / A: cassiterite F: ? G: Zinnstein, Kassiterit H: = casiterita I: cassiterite E: kasiterito *kava.o / planto Polineziana e dri= nko facita de olua radiko / A: kava [plant; drink] F: ? G: Kava-kava-wurzel= stock E: kavao L: Piper methysticum {O} *kavi.o / mamifero. Vorti F. citit= a =3D Cavia porcellus, do ne korespondas al sorto generale / A: cavy [e.g. = guinea pig] F: ? (~cobaye, ~cochon d'Inde) G: Meerschweinchen H: cobayo, co= baya, conejillo de Indias I: cavia E: kavio L: Caviidae *klorit.o ?? / min= eralo verdatra. En ula lingui la vorto esas ambigua / A: chlorite [mineral]= F: ? G: Chlorit [Mineral] H: clorita I: clorite [min.] E: klorito [mineral= o] klostridio / sorto di bakterio / A: clostridium F: ? I: clostridio E: k= lostridio *kolimat.ar [tr] / igar (lumo-radii o partikuli) nediverganta o = paralela, exemple en spektoskopo. Tale *kolimatilo, kun senco diferanta kam= kolimatoro / A: to collimate F: ?; [-ilo] collimateur G: [-o] Kollimation;= [-ilo] Kollimator H: colimar E: kolimati *komponent.o / konstitucanta par= to, elemento di un totajo; anke matem. e kemie. Ne "kompozanto"! / A: compo= nent [consituent part; also chem., math.] F: ? composant [partie, aussi chi= m.]; composante [partie, aussi math.] H: componente [tambi=E9n mat. y qu=ED= m.] E: komponanto kriogeniko / cienco pri produkto e studio dil fenomeni d= i tre basa temperaturi / A: cryogenics F: ? cryog=E9nie H: criog=E9nica I: = criogenia E: kriogeniko *kroma.o / forteso di koloro; un di la tri mezuri = di koloro (en la Angla: "hue", "chroma", "value") / A: chroma F: ? H: croma= *kustodi.ar [tr] / responsar pri sekureso e bona stando di (ulu od ulo). = Exemple: "pos divorco plu ofte la matro kustodias la pueri"; "la legi kusto= diesas fortunoze da honesta homi"; "bezoni kustodiala". En Roze,p88 propoze= sis *kustodio / A: to have custody [safe-keeping] of F: ? avoir la responsa= bilit=E9 de garder ou protegir H: custodiar E: ~varti, ~prizorgi linario /= planto kun flava flori, simila a muzel-floro / A: toadflax F: ? G: Leinkra= ut I: linaria, linaiola E: linario L: Linaria *link.o / parto (ringo od al= tra formo) qua juntesas ad apuda parti di kateno; anke metafore: parto di k= ontinua serio, kauzala o logikala konsequo. Roze,p88 / A: link [of a chain;= also fig.] F: ? membre [.......?], anneau [d'une cha=EEne; aussi fig.] G: = Glied [Teil, Kettenglied] E: c^enero; ~ligilo *ludism.o / opozo a chanjo i= ndustriala, kredo di *luditi / A: luddism F: ? H: ludismo I: luddismo *lud= it.o / opozanto di chanjo industriala; origine ulu qua destruktis mashin-ap= arati texala / A: luddite F: ? luddite G: Maschinenst=FCrmer H: ludita I: l= uddista [sost.] *lutreol.o ? / mamifero simila a *vizono e vizelo / A: Eur= opean mink F: ? E: lutreolo L: Mustela lutreola magistro / persono kun gra= do universitatala plu alta kam ordinara ma min alta kam doktoreso. Ex.: mag= isto di arto, m. di cienco / A: master [graduate holding a master's degree]= F: ? titulaire d'une ma=EEtrise [=E8s lettres, sciences etc: titre univers= itaire] G: Magister [Inhaber des Grades eines Magisters] E: magistro *marg= ay.o / mamifero / A: margay F: ? G: Baumozelot, Langschwanzkatze L: Felis w= iedii, Leopardus wiedii *megakiropter.o / kiroptero-sorto, ofte fruktivora= / A: megachiropteran, ~fruit-eating bat, ~fruit bat F: ? I: megachirottero= E: ~pteropo L: Megachiroptera *megalosaur.o / olima grandega lacerto / A:= megalosaurus, megalosaur F: ? H: megalosaurio I: megalosauro E: megalosau`= ro L: Megalosaurus *mixom.o / tumoro de tisuo mukoza / A: myxoma F: ? H: m= ixoma I: mixoma E: miksomo *notokord.o / quaza stango elastika en, adminim= e embrione, multa animali (*kordati) / A: notochord F: ? H: notocordio I: n= otocorda, corda dorsale E: h^ordo *nutric.o / Roze,p91: muliero alaktanta = *bebeo, qua ne es elua. Del L nutrix / A: wet-nurse F: ? nourrice E: suc^ig= istino, mamnutristino *nux.o / sorto di nature sika frukto, quale avelano,= mandelo, nuco e.c. / A: nut [botanical] F: ? noix [fruit comme amande, ave= line, noix, pacane etc] G: Nuss E: nukso *oologi.o / zoologio di uceli / A= : oology F: ? G: Oologie H: oolog=EDa I: oologia *pedikur.ar [tr] / sorgar= o flegar la piedi di; analoge a "manikurar"; tale *pedikuristo e.c. / A: t= o pedicure, give (a) pedicure to F: ? donner soin a les pieds de G: pedik= =FCren E: pedikuri *pelt.ar [tr] / atakar o molestar ulu (od ulo) per kozo= o kozi jetata. Roze,p93: atakar, asaltar o molestar ulu per ulo jetita sur= lu. "La skolani peltis l'unu l'altru per nivo-buli". Dyer ofras "bombardar= " ma segun Pesch to esas "asaltar per la lanso di bombi"! Irgakaze, ni bezo= nas povar distingar inter "peltar la vilajani" e "bombardar la vilajani"! /= A: to pelt [throw things at] F: ? jeter des choses =E0, bombarder [lancer = des projectiles sur] G: bewerfen [etwas auf jemanden, auf etwas werfen] pe= ntatomo / insekto, sorto di *heteroptero / A: pentatomid (bug), ~shieldbug,= ~stink-bug F: ? pentatome, punaise des bois E: pentatomo L: Pentatoma *pi= nat.a / havanta formo simila a plumo [bot. e zool.] / A: pinnate [biol.] F:= ? G: gefiedert [biol.] H: pinnado E: pinata, plumeca *shut.ar [tr] / Roze= ,p98. Batar [ulo od ulu] per ulo (dardo, flecho, kuglo, e.c.) lansita per a= rmo (arko, kanono, pafilo, e.c.). Diferas de "pafar" e "lansar". Roze,p98: = mixita; "pafar" restriktesus al shuti bruisoza por karakterizar la bruiso. = On povas *shutar per arko, fusilo e.c. "Ne *shutez!" / A: to shoot [hit wit= h a missile discharged from a weapon] F: abattre, tirer, fusiller [... ?] G= : anschie=DFen I: colpire, abbattere E: pafi *sifonofor.o / Roze,p99: "Apa= rta speco de hidro-meduzi" / A: siphonophore [such as Portuguese man-of-war= ] F: ? siphonophore H: sifon=F3foro I: sifonoforo L: Siphonophora *slendr.= a / Roze,p99: Havanta mikra diametro o periferio kompare ad alteso o longes= o. Slendra figuro, kano, tubo edc. "Dina" =3D havanta du opozita surfaci tr= e proxima una al altra: dina planko, libro, papero / A: slender, slim F: ? = =E9lanc=E9, svelte, mince, fin G: schlank H: delgado, ~esbelto I: sottile, = snello, esile E: ~maldika *snuker.o / ludo simila a biliardo / A: snooker = [game] F: ? G: Snooker {ne en Duden!} H: snooker, billar ingl=E9s E: 21-pil= ka bilardo *ustul.ar [t/n] / Roze,p104: del L ustulo. Ustular la linjo. Ne= sama kam "bruletar". Tamen "t/n" vice nur transitiva quale en Roze / A: to= singe, scorch F: ? roussir [br=FBlant superficiellement] E: ~bruletigi, su= rfacbruligi; ~bruleti, surfacbruli *valut.o / pekunio di ula lando o banko= -sistemo / A: currency, money [of a particular country or banking system], = foreign exchange F: ? devise(s) [monnaie] G: Valuta [W=E4hrung], (ausl=E4nd= ische) W=E4hrung I: valuta [moneta circolante] E: valuto [mono] *yul.o / c= elebro tre anciena dil solstico vintrala, pose adoptita ed adaptita dal ekl= ezio kom Kristnasko(festo). Videz Pesch,p631 / A: yule [pre-Christian celeb= ration] F: ?? no=EBl [f=EAte pr=E9-chr=E9tien] G: Jul, Julfest E: Julo {F= INO} From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1213 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91354 invoked from network); 5 May 2004 00:10:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2004 00:10:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO thomas.numericable.net) (80.236.0.149) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2004 00:10:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 9705 invoked from network); 5 May 2004 00:10:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by thomas.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 5 May 2004 00:10:31 -0000 Message-ID: <003b01c43235$cfbad540$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <200405041713_MC3-1-8196-A37E@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 02:13:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.149 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Franca tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Robert, Sube esas mea propozi pri la Franca. Amikale Loik abomaso / quaresma fako di stomako di rumifero (*omaso esas triesma fako) / A: abomasum F: abomasum I: abomaso, caglio E: abomaso Ariano / adepto di *Arianismo / A: Arian [adherent of Arianism] F: Arien E: Ariano *Bashkir.a / pri la populo partikulara di *Bashkiria / A: Bashkir [adj.] F: bachkir, des Bachkirs H: bashkir E: Bas^kira *galag.o / mamifero Afrikana, simila a *loriso / A: bushbaby, galago F: galago G: Buschbaby H: g�lago I: galagone E: galago L: Galago hidrofono / sorto di mikrofono subaqua / A: hydrophone F: hydrophone H: hidr�fono I: idrofono E: hidrofono *higroskopik.a / qua tendencas absorbar aquo del aero. F&S havas "*higroskopa" ma (nun) existas "higroskopo" (aparato) / A: hygroscopic [tending to absorb water from the air] F: hygroscopique G: hygroskopisch, feuchtigkeitanziehend H: higrosc�pico I: igroscopico *hipoxi.o / manko di oxigeno atinganta la tisui / A: hypoxia F: hypox�mie G: Hypoxie I: ipossia ilmenito / erco / A: ilmenite F: ilm�nite H: ilmenita, hierro titanado, crichtonita I: ilmenite E: ilmenito *inflacion.ism.o / politiko di *inflaciono / A: inflationism F: inflationnisme G: Inflationismus I: inflazionismo E: inflaciismo *intub.ar / insertar tubo aden organo [vorto teknikala pri medicino] / A: to intubate F: intuber H: intubar, entubar I: intubare [med.] *kapibar.o / mamifero di sud-Amerika, maxim granda rodero / A: capybara, carpincho F: ? H: capibara, carpincho I: capibara, maiale d'acqua E: kapibaro L: Hydrochoerus hydrochaeris {SO}. Hydrocoerus capybara {E} kasiterito / mineralo, oxido (e fonto) di stano / A: cassiterite F: cassit�rite G: Zinnstein, Kassiterit H: casiterita I: cassiterite E: kasiterito *kava.o / planto Polineziana e drinko facita de olua radiko / A: kava [plant; drink] F: kawa ou kava G: Kava-kava-wurzelstock E: kavao L: Piper methysticum {O} *kavi.o / mamifero. Vorti F. citita = Cavia porcellus, do ne korespondas al sorto generale / A: cavy [e.g. guinea pig] F: ? (~cobaye, ~cochon d'Inde) G: Meerschweinchen H: cobayo, cobaya, conejillo de Indias I: cavia E: kavio L: Caviidae *klorit.o ?? / mineralo verdatra. En ula lingui la vorto esas ambigua / A: chlorite [mineral] F: chlorite G: Chlorit [Mineral] H: clorita I: clorite [min.] E: klorito [mineralo] klostridio / sorto di bakterio / A: clostridium F: clostridium I: clostridio E: klostridio *kolimat.ar [tr] / igar (lumo-radii o partikuli) nediverganta o paralela, exemple en spektoskopo. Tale *kolimatilo, kun senco diferanta kam kolimatoro / A: to collimate F: [-o] collimation; [-ilo] collimateur G: [-o] Kollimation; [-ilo] Kollimator H: colimar E: kolimati *komponent.o / konstitucanta parto, elemento di un totajo; anke matem. e kemie. Ne "kompozanto"! / A: component [consituent part; also chem., math.] F: composant [partie, aussi chim.]; composante [partie, aussi math.] H: componente [tambi�n mat. y qu�m.] E: komponanto kriogeniko / cienco pri produkto e studio dil fenomeni di tre basa temperaturi / A: cryogenics F: cryog�nie H: criog�nica I: criogenia E: kriogeniko *kroma.o / forteso di koloro; un di la tri mezuri di koloro (en la Angla: "hue", "chroma", "value") / A: chroma F: chrominance H: croma *kustodi.ar [tr] / responsar pri sekureso e bona stando di (ulu od ulo). Exemple: "pos divorco plu ofte la matro kustodias la pueri"; "la legi kustodiesas fortunoze da honesta homi"; "bezoni kustodiala". En Roze,p88 propozesis *kustodio / A: to have custody [safe-keeping] of F: avoir la garde H: custodiar E: ~varti, ~prizorgi linario / planto kun flava flori, simila a muzel-floro / A: toadflax F: linaire G: Leinkraut I: linaria, linaiola E: linario L: Linaria *link.o / parto (ringo od altra formo) qua juntesas ad apuda parti di kateno; anke metafore: parto di kontinua serio, kauzala o logikala konsequo. Roze,p88 / A: link [of a chain; also fig.] F: lien membre [.......?], anneau [d'une cha�ne; aussi fig.] G: Glied [Teil, Kettenglied] E: c^enero; ~ligilo *ludism.o / opozo a chanjo industriala, kredo di *luditi / A: luddism F: luddisme H: ludismo I: luddismo *ludit.o / opozanto di chanjo industriala; origine ulu qua destruktis mashin-aparati texala / A: luddite F: luddite G: Maschinenst�rmer H: ludita I: luddista [sost.] *lutreol.o ? / mamifero simila a *vizono e vizelo / A: European mink F: loutre (ja existas lutro ) ? E: lutreolo L: Mustela lutreola magistro / persono kun grado universitatala plu alta kam ordinara ma min alta kam doktoreso. Ex.: magisto di arto, m. di cienco / A: master [graduate holding a master's degree] F: titulaire d'une ma�trise [�s lettres, sciences etc: titre universitaire] G: Magister [Inhaber des Grades eines Magisters] E: magistro *margay.o / mamifero / A: margay F: ? G: Baumozelot, Langschwanzkatze L: Felis wiedii, Leopardus wiedii *megakiropter.o / kiroptero-sorto, ofte fruktivora / A: megachiropteran, ~fruit-eating bat, ~fruit bat F: mega chiropt�re I: megachirottero E: ~pteropo L: Megachiroptera *megalosaur.o / olima grandega lacerto / A: megalosaurus, megalosaur F: megalosaurus H: megalosaurio I: megalosauro E: megalosau`ro L: Megalosaurus *mixom.o / tumoro de tisuo mukoza / A: myxoma F: myxome H: mixoma I: mixoma E: miksomo *notokord.o / quaza stango elastika en, adminime embrione, multa animali (*kordati) / A: notochord F: notocorde H: notocordio I: notocorda, corda dorsale E: h^ordo *nutric.o / Roze,p91: muliero alaktanta *bebeo, qua ne es elua. Del L nutrix / A: wet-nurse F: nourrice (ja existas nutr-ist-ino) E: suc^igistino, mamnutristino *nux.o / sorto di nature sika frukto, quale avelano, mandelo, nuco e.c. / A: nut [botanical] F: ? noix [fruit comme amande, aveline, noix, pacane etc] G: Nuss E: nukso *oologi.o / zoologio di uceli / A: oology F: oologie G: Oologie H: oolog�a I: oologia *pedikur.ar [tr] / sorgar o flegar la piedi di; analoge a "manikurar"; tale *pedikuristo e.c. / A: to pedicure, give (a) pedicure to F: donner des soins de p�dicure G: pedik�ren E: pedikuri *pelt.ar [tr] / atakar o molestar ulu (od ulo) per kozo o kozi jetata. Roze,p93: atakar, asaltar o molestar ulu per ulo jetita sur lu. "La skolani peltis l'unu l'altru per nivo-buli". Dyer ofras "bombardar" ma segun Pesch to esas "asaltar per la lanso di bombi"! Irgakaze, ni bezonas povar distingar inter "peltar la vilajani" e "bombardar la vilajani"! / A: to pelt [throw things at] F: ? jeter des choses �, bombarder [lancer des projectiles sur] G: bewerfen [etwas auf jemanden, auf etwas werfen] pentatomo / insekto, sorto di *heteroptero / A: pentatomid (bug), ~shieldbug, ~stink-bug F: pentatome, punaise des bois E: pentatomo L: Pentatoma *pinat.a / havanta formo simila a plumo [bot. e zool.] / A: pinnate [biol.] F: pinnate G: gefiedert [biol.] H: pinnado E: pinata, plumeca *shut.ar [tr] / Roze,p98. Batar [ulo od ulu] per ulo (dardo, flecho, kuglo, e.c.) lansita per armo (arko, kanono, pafilo, e.c.). Diferas de "pafar" e "lansar". Roze,p98: mixita; "pafar" restriktesus al shuti bruisoza por karakterizar la bruiso. On povas *shutar per arko, fusilo e.c. "Ne *shutez!" / A: to shoot [hit with a missile discharged from a weapon] F: abattre, tirer, fusiller [... ?] G: anschie�en I: colpire, abbattere E: pafi *sifonofor.o / Roze,p99: "Aparta speco de hidro-meduzi" / A: siphonophore [such as Portuguese man-of-war] F: siphonophore H: sifon�foro I: sifonoforo L: Siphonophora *slendr.a / Roze,p99: Havanta mikra diametro o periferio kompare ad alteso o longeso. Slendra figuro, kano, tubo edc. "Dina" = havanta du opozita surfaci tre proxima una al altra: dina planko, libro, papero / A: slender, slim F: �lanc�, svelte, mince, fin G: schlank H: delgado, ~esbelto I: sottile, snello, esile E: ~maldika *snuker.o / ludo simila a biliardo / A: snooker [game] F: ? G: Snooker {ne en Duden!} H: snooker, billar ingl�s E: 21-pilka bilardo *ustul.ar [t/n] / Roze,p104: del L ustulo. Ustular la linjo. Ne sama kam "bruletar". Tamen "t/n" vice nur transitiva quale en Roze / A: to singe, scorch F: ? roussir (ruf-eskar,-igar) [br�lant superficiellement] [bruletar] E: ~bruletigi, surfacbruligi; ~bruleti, surfacbruli *valut.o / pekunio di ula lando o banko-sistemo / A: currency, money [of a particular country or banking system], foreign exchange F: devise(s) [monnaie] G: Valuta [W�hrung], (ausl�ndische) W�hrung I: valuta [moneta circolante] E: valuto [mono] *yul.o / celebro tre anciena dil solstico vintrala, pose adoptita ed adaptita dal eklezio kom Kristnasko(festo). Videz Pesch,p631 / A: yule [pre-Christian celebration] F: ?? no�l [f�te pr�-chr�tien] G: Jul, Julfest E: Julo {FINO} From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1214 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92812 invoked from network); 5 May 2004 14:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2004 14:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2004 14:08:33 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200405051408.0ac3; Wed, 5 May 2004 14:08:10 GMT Send-By: 24.202.199.174 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:08:10 GMT Message-id: <200405051408.0ac3@th00.idoo.com> if-filter0: N X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Rep:Re: [linguo] Franca tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kara Robert, Me tote konkordas kun la propozuri di Loic. Yen tamen kelka k= ompletiguri: *kapibar.o F: capibara, cabiai *kavi.o F: cobaye, cochon d'I= nde *kustodi.ar [tr] F: prendre en charge (qqn) *link.o F: cha=EEnon *l= utreol.o ? F: vison d'Europe magistro F: titulaire d'une ma=EEtrise/d'un = mast=E8re [titre universitaire] *margay.o F: margay *nutric.o F: m=E8re n= ourrici=E8re *pedikur.ar [tr] F: donner des soins de p=E9dicure =E0 *pel= t.ar [tr] F: bombarder [lancer des projectiles sur] *shut.ar [tr] F: tirer= [=E0 l'aide d'une arme] *snuker.o F: billard am=E9ricain *ustul.ar [t/n]= F: roussir [br=FBler superficiellement] *yul.o F: No=EBl [r=E9f=E9rence = =E0 la f=EAte pr=E9-chr=E9tienne] G: Jul, Julfest E: Julo Ultre, pri mea l= asta mesajo koncernante la dezinenco di l'ajektivi e l'adverbi, se me bone = komprenis, vu skribis ke l'adverbi havas sempre la dezinenco -e. Lore, pro = ke onu trovas en la dicionario "francais-Ido" da De Beaufront et Couturat, = l'adverbi "nun" vice "nune", "quik" vice "quike", "apud" vice "apude", edc.= ? Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT ________________________________________= _____________________________ Un mot doux =E0 envoyer? Une sortie cin=E9 = =E0 organiser? Faites le en temps r=E9el avec MSN Messenger! C'est gratuit!= http://ifrance.com/_reloc/m ___________________________________________= __________________________ Envie de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T=E9= l=E9charger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1=E8re message= rie instantan=E9e de France From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1215 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77649 invoked from network); 6 May 2004 22:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2004 22:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.3) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2004 22:07:22 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i46M7AQY004577 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:05:48 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200405061807_MC3-1-81D1-74F7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.3 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Hispana tradukuri por nova vorti bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Hispana tradukuri esas bezonata por la suba POSIBLA nova vorti propozebla. = Se vorto tradukala havas plu kam un senco, esas importanta indikar qua sen= co korespondas a ta dil Ido-vorto. Multa danki. Robert. __________ A=3D= angla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEs= peranto; L=3Dlatina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]=3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro = neexakta Vorti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimes= os kursive *Adjari.a / parto di Turkia til 1878, nun parto di Gruzia. Hisp= . dicionario (1997) donas nur "Adzharia" / A: Adzharia F: Adjarie G: Adscha= rien H: ? Adzharia, ? Ayaria I: Agiaristan *amfipodo / sorto di krustaceo = o molusko / A: amphipod F: amphipode H: ? I: anfipode, pulce di mare E: amf= ipodo L: Amphipoda *brasiko / planto di kategorio qua inkluzas kaulo, napo= e.c. / A: brassica F: brassicac=E9e G: [Pl.] Kohlpflanzen H: ? col, ? berz= a I: cappuccio, cavolo E: brasiko L: Brassica *citozino / adenino, guanino= , *citozino e *timino esas la 4 fundamentala biokemiaji genala / A: cytosin= e F: cytosine H: ? I: citosina E: citozino *dafni.o / krustaceo aquala / A= : daphnid, ~water flea F: daphnie [crustac=E9 branchiopode d'eau douce], pu= ce d'eau H: ? I: dafnia E: dafnio, akvopulo L: Daphnia (pulex) *deflacion.= o / senci ekonomikala e geologiala (ventala erodo). Pesch havas *deflacar (= senco ekon.) / A: deflation [econ.; geol.] F: d=E9flation [=E9con., g=E9ol.= ] G: Deflation [Wirtschaft; Geol.] H: ? deflaci=F3n; ? [geol.] I: deflazion= e [econ., geol.] E: deflacio [ekon., geol.] *ektomorf.o / persono di sorto= kun dina (*slendra) korpo / A: ectomorph F: ectomorphe G: ektomorpher Kons= titutionstyp H: ? I: ectomorfo *franchis.ar [tr] / permisar (firmo o perso= no) vendar, en ula distrikto, vari o servi uzante por oli sua (ne lua) nomo= komercala (ta dil *franchisanto) / A: to grant a franchise to [commercial = sense] F: franchiser H: ? E: ~koncesii *Ganimed.o / (1) persono mitala; (2= ) satelito di *Neptuno, deskovrita da Galileo / A: Ganymede [myth.; moon] F= : Ganym=E8de [myth.; satellite] H: Ganimedes [mitol.]; ? I: Ganimede [mitol= .; astr.] *gingam.o / sorto di texuro, kotona kun strii di du kolori / A: = gingham F: vichy [toile de coton] G: Gingan, Gingham H: ? E: gingamo* *glu= ono / partikulo atomala / A: gluon F: gluon H: ? I: gluone E: gluono *Hasi= d.al.a / pri *Hasido (sekto di Judaismo) / A: Hassidic, Hasidic, Chassidic,= Chasidic F: hassidique G: chasarisch H: ? I: hassidico E: H^asida *hetero= log.a / termino patologiala / A: heterologous F: h=E9t=E9rologue G: heterol= og H: ? I: eterologo *hidrosolo / sorto di *solo (sorto di koloido) / A: h= ydrosol F: hydrosol H: ? I: idrosol E: hidrosolo *Hindustan / norda parto = di India, sen Bengal / A: Hindustan F: Hindoustan G: Hindustan H: ? I: Indo= stan E: Hindustano *hipnoterapi.o / uzo di hipnoto por kuraco / A: hypnoth= erapy F: hypnoth=E9rapie H: ? I: ipnoterapia *hipoxi.o / manko di oxigeno = atinganta la tisui / A: hypoxia F: hypox=E9mie G: Hypoxie H: ? I: ipossia = *horologi.o ? / arto di konstrukto di horloji / A: horology [art of constru= cting clocks and watches], horography F: horlogerie [art] G: Uhrmacherkunst= H: ? I: orologeria *iguanodon.o / sorto di dinosaurio / A: iguanodon F: i= guanodon G: Iguanodon H: ? I: iguanodonte E: igvanodonto *indri.o / mamife= ro di genero "Indri" / A: indri, indris, babacoote F: indri H: ? I: indri E= : indrio L: Indri indri *inflacion.ism.o / politiko di *inflaciono / A: in= flationism F: inflationnisme G: Inflationismus H: ? I: inflazionismo E: inf= laciismo *inflacion.ist.o / kredanto ye *inflacionismo / A: inflationist F= : inflationniste [n.] H: ? I: inflazionista *iridec.ar [ntr] / reflektar l= umo ye kolori chanjanta (fenomeno di exemple aerobuleti, perlomatro ed ula = plumi); tale *iridecanta / A: to be iridescent, iridesce F: =EAtre iridesce= nt, chatoyer G: schillern in Regenbogenfarben H: ? ser iridiscente, ser iri= sado E: irizi, irizig^i *izopodo / krustaceo / A: isopod F: isopode G: Ass= el, Isopode H: ? I: isopode E: izopodo L: Isopoda *kend.o / metodo Japonia= na di kombato uzante stango, anke praktikata kom sporto / A: kendo F: kendo= H: ? I: kendo *kladistik.o / metodo klasifikala biologiala. Adjektivo F. = es "cladistique" / A: cladistics F: cladisme H: ? I: cladistica E: kladiko = *klamidio / mikrobo bakteriatra e virusatra, aktiva ye ula morbi / A: chla= mydia F: chlamydia H: ? I: clamidia E: klamidio *kloropren.o / kemiajo / A= : chloroprene F: chloropr=E8ne H: ? I: cloroprene E: kloropreno *kopepodo = / tre mikra krustaceo / A: copepod F: cop=E9pode [zool.] H: ? I: copepode E= : kopepodo L: Copepoda *laminari.o / bruna algo marala, ye formo di longa = rubandi; kelka sorti esas manjebla / A: kelp [=B0Laminaria=B0] F: laminaire= [algue] G: Braunalge, Laminaria H: ? I: laminaria E: laminario L: Laminari= a *lime.o / acida frukto, mikra e verd(et)a, ronda od ovala, richa ye vita= mino C (Ne: limeto =3D Citrus limetta. Ne: limono =3D Citrus limon) / A: li= me [fruit] F: lime [fruit; pas limette] H: ? {noto: H: lima =3D Ido: limeto= } I: limetta acida [frutto: =B0Citrus aurantifolia=B0] E: limeo, verda citr= ono [frukto] L: Citrus aurantiifolia; Citrus aurantifolia *lime.ier.o A: l= ime tree [citrus] F: lime [arbre; pas limettier] H: ? I: limetta acida, lum= ia [alberetto: =B0Citrus aurantifolia=B0] E: limeo, limeujo, verda citrono = [arbo] L: Citrus aurantiifolia; Citrus aurantifolia *link.o / parto (ringo= od altra formo) qua juntesas ad apuda parti di kateno; anke metafore: part= o di kontinua serio, kauzala o logikala konsequo. Roze,p88 / A: link [of a = chain; also fig.] F: cha=EEnon [anneau d'une cha=EEne; aussi fig.] G: Glied= [Teil, Kettenglied] H: ? eslab=F3n [de una cadena; tambi=E9n fig.] E: c^en= ero; ~ligilo *lipoprotein.o / sorto di proteino / A: lipoprotein F: lipopr= ot=E9ine H: ? I: lipoproteina E: lipoproteino, lipidproteino *luminec.ar [= ntr] / emisar lumo ye basa temperaturo, exemple fosforece o kemie, kontrast= e ad inkandecar / A: to be luminescent, luminesce F: =EAtre luminescent G: = lumineszieren H: ? ser luminescente E: lumineski *mahoni.o / planto / A: m= ahonia F: mahonia H: ? I: maonia [genere Mahonia] E: mahonio L: Mahonia *m= argay.o / mamifero / A: margay F: margay G: Baumozelot, Langschwanzkatze H:= ? tigrillo, gato tigre L: Felis wiedii, Leopardus wiedii *marian.o / plan= to / A: milk thistle F: chardon Marie G: Mariendistel H: ? L: Silybum maria= num, Carduus marianum *nux.o / sorto di nature sika frukto, quale avelano,= mandelo, nuco e.c. / A: nut [botanical] G: Nuss H: ? nuez [fruto como alme= ndra, avellana, pacana, etc] E: nukso *pedikur.ar [tr] / sorgar o flegar l= a piedi di; analoge a "manikurar"; tale *pedikuristo e.c. / A: to pedicure,= give (a) pedicure to F: donner des soins de p=E9dicure =E0 G: pedik=FCren = H: ? E: pedikuri *permeanco / qualeso di cirkuito magnetala, simila a kond= uktiveso elektrala; kontreajo di *reluktanco / A: permeance [elec.] F: perm= =E9ance H: ? I: permeanza [fis.] E: permeanco *Prus.a / pri populo Baltika= (ne Germana!) e lia linguo, simila a Latviana e Lituaniana, qua parolesis = til 17ma yarcento / A: Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian F: prussien [relatif= =E0 la Prusse] H: ? E: Prusa *Prus.o / membro di olima populo Baltika (ne= Germana) / A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people] F: Prussien [habitant d= e la Prusse] H: ? E: Pruso *resembl.ar [tr] / Roze,p97. Aspektar simila a,= havar aspekti komuna kun. Ex.: El multe resemblas sua matro; il esas resem= blata da nulu / A: to resemble F: ressembler H: ? parecerse a, se parecer a= I: somigliare a, rassomigliare a *shut.ar [tr] / Roze,p98. Batar [ulo od = ulu] per ulo (dardo, flecho, kuglo, e.c.) lansita per armo (arko, kanono, p= afilo, e.c.). Diferas de "pafar" e "lansar". Roze,p98: mixita; "pafar" rest= riktesus al shuti bruisoza por karakterizar la bruiso. On povas *shutar per= arko, fusilo e.c. "Ne *shutez!" / A: to shoot [hit with a missile discharg= ed from a weapon] F: tirer [=E0 l'aide d'une arme] G: anschie=DFen H: ? dis= parar [... ?] I: colpire, abbattere E: pafi *stegosaur.o / sorto di dinosa= urio / A: stegosaur F: st=E9gosaure G: Stegosaurier H: ? I: stegosauro E: s= tegosau`ro *tiranosaur.o / dinosaurio / A: tyrannosaur, tyrannosaurus F: t= yrannosaure G: Tyrannosaurus H: ? I: tirannosauro E: tiranosau`ro *uracilo= / biokemiajo en omna celulo vivanta (C4H4N2O2) / A: uracil F: uracile H: ?= I: uracile E: uracilo *valut.o / pekunio di ula lando o banko-sistemo / A= : currency, money [of a particular country or banking system], foreign exch= ange F: devise(s) [monnaie] G: Valuta [W=E4hrung], (ausl=E4ndische) W=E4hru= ng H: ? divisas, moneda [de un pa=EDs] I: valuta [moneta circolante] E: val= uto [mono] *Yakut.a / pri populo e linguo precipua di *Yakutia, lando di S= iberia / A: Yakut [adj.] F: iakoute G: jakutisch H: ? yakuto E: Jakuta *Ya= kut.o / persono *Yakuta / A: Yakut [person] F: Iakoute G: Jakute H: ? yakut= o E: Jakuto *yul.o / celebro tre anciena dil solstico vintrala, pose adopt= ita ed adaptita dal eklezio kom Kristnasko(festo). Videz Pesch,p631 / A: yu= le [pre-Christian celebration] F: No=EBl [r=E9f=E9rence a la f=EAte pr=E9-c= hr=E9tienne] G: Jul, Julfest H: ? navidad ... ? E: Julo {FINO} From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1216 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36413 invoked from network); 6 May 2004 22:10:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2004 22:10:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2004 22:10:36 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i46MAKTk014875 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 6 May 2004 18:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:05:44 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200405061807_MC3-1-81D1-74F6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.133 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: linguo] Franca tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Christophe e Loik, Multa danko a vi pro via bona helpo pri Franca tradukuri. Pri "*lutreolo", Loik, yes, ja existas "lutro" ma to esas Latine "Lutra", dum ke "*lutreolo" esas Latine "Mustela lutreola", do animalo simila ma altra. Yes, Christophe, me ne explikis komplete pri adverbi. Maxim ofte adverbi finas ye "e". On ne darfas omisar irga litero di adverbo. Adverbo qua finas ye litero "e" esas maxim ofte adverbo derivita de adjektivo (kelkfoye de altra vorto). Exemple, "bone" de "bona", "rapide" de "rapida", "sucesoze" de "sucesoza", "universale" de "universala", e cetere. Tamen, existas anke poka adverbi qui ne esas derivita de adjektivi (o de altra vorti). Exemple: "nun, olim, nur, tre, jus, quik, tro, sat". Vua altra exemplo, "apud", esas ne adverbo ma prepoziciono (quale "en, proxim, sur, kun, lor, super, dum, sub, an, avan, dop, ante, pos"). Exemple: "la arboro esas apud la domo". De "apud" on povas derivar adjektivo ("apuda": "la apuda arboro") ed adverbo ("apude": "ka vu vidas la domo ed anke la arboro qua falis apude?"). Simile, on povas derivar adverbi "kune" (ni iros kune"), "proxime", "lore", "sube" ("regardez sube"). La vorti "nune" e "quike" esas probable tre rare utila o bezonata, e maxim ofte nur erori. Me nultempe uzas li. Expliko plu detaloza pri adverbi esas trovebla ye pagini 56-67 di "Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza" (es.geocities.com/krayono/kgd.pdf). Robert. ___________ >Ultre, pri mea lasta mesajo koncernante la dezinenco di l'ajektivi e l'adverbi, se me bone komprenis, vu skribis ke l'adverbi havas sempre la dezinenco -e. Lore, pro ke onu trovas en la dicionario "francais-Ido" da De Beaufront et Couturat, l'adverbi "nun" vice "nune", "quik" vice "quike", "apud" vice "apude", edc. ? Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1217 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56207 invoked from network); 7 May 2004 04:55:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2004 04:55:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2004 04:55:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 May 2004 04:54:45 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 04:54:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1583 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.75 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Nova vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Loic, Christophe e Robert, (1) Me prizas vua esforci pri sugestita nova vorti. Komprenende Ido mustas atencigar ciencala e teknikala vorti, ma semblas ke dum la tempo di Roze on sugestis plura vorti quin me kredas esar superflua. (2) Ido posedas diversa prefixi e sufixi por chanjar la senco di vorto e me pensas ke tala aranjo ofte suficas kun la existanta vortaro. Forsan nun es neapta okaziono, ma me facas poka komenti. (a) *ustular. Bruletar semblas suficanta. Forsan rostetar (di karno). (b) *slendra. En dicionario ni lektas " gracila", "tenua", "dina", ed anke l'altra senco di "febla" e "povra". Certe sat multa. (3) *stegosauro e *tiranosauro e ja en Ido, plesiosauro. Ankore ni havas "dinosaurio". En la zoologiala grupo Reptilia (Repteri) existas *Dinosauria" (Dinosaurii), tale ka es Dinosaurio grupo di simila repteri? Vere, la klasifikado balde chanjos por ke la "Aves" (uceli) es fakte la rezidui di la Dinosaurii. (4) *nuxo. Kom botanikisto me komprenas ke la existanta vorto "nuco" es ciencala termino por "harda, sika, neapertanta frukto" e qua on anke uzas ordinare. Me ne komprenas la bezono por *nuxo. (5) *shutar es sugesto por pafar sen bruiso. Ma me sentas ke la difero es la moyeno lansar la projektilo. Per mashino quale pafilo, fusilo, arko od arbalesto, on uzas "pafar"; per manuo quale lanco, javelino o kultelo, on uzas "jetar o lansar". Ido ja havas vorti por la reala projektili e la verbo "vizar". La rezulto certe esos vundo o morto! (6) *oologio es la studio di ovi ne uceli (ornitologio). Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1218 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46894 invoked from network); 7 May 2004 22:09:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2004 22:09:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO thomas.numericable.net) (80.236.0.149) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2004 22:09:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 16322 invoked from network); 7 May 2004 22:09:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by thomas.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 May 2004 22:09:28 -0000 Message-ID: <004701c43480$662b79c0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 00:12:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.149 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Nova vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Richard, Danko pro vua remarki. Me konkordas kun vu pri *ustular. Ol ne esas necesa pro ke existas ja la verbo bruletar. La franca dicionario definas gracila = gracioza e frajila samtempe. Do l'adjektivo "gracila" ne esas justa por *slendra. Persone me preferus *slenda kam *slendra . Me konkordas kun Christophe pri *shutar: F: tirer [� l'aide d'une arme] E me opinionas ke ca vorto es necesa nam pafar es plu restriktiva [F : tirer un coup de feu, faire feu] Amikale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "richsteven2000" � : Envoy� : vendredi 7 mai 2004 06:54 Objet : [linguo] Nova vorti > Kara Loic, Christophe e Robert, > (1) Me prizas vua esforci pri sugestita nova vorti. Komprenende > Ido mustas atencigar ciencala e teknikala vorti, ma semblas ke dum > la tempo di Roze on sugestis plura vorti quin me kredas esar > superflua. > (2) Ido posedas diversa prefixi e sufixi por chanjar la senco di > vorto e me pensas ke tala aranjo ofte suficas kun la existanta > vortaro. Forsan nun es neapta okaziono, ma me facas poka komenti. > (a) *ustular. Bruletar semblas suficanta. Forsan rostetar (di karno). > (b) *slendra. En dicionario ni lektas " gracila", "tenua", "dina", > ed anke l'altra senco di "febla" e "povra". Certe sat multa. > (3) *stegosauro e *tiranosauro e ja en Ido, plesiosauro. > Ankore ni havas "dinosaurio". En la zoologiala grupo Reptilia > (Repteri) existas *Dinosauria" (Dinosaurii), tale ka es Dinosaurio > grupo di simila repteri? Vere, la klasifikado balde chanjos por ke > la "Aves" (uceli) es fakte la rezidui di la Dinosaurii. > (4) *nuxo. Kom botanikisto me komprenas ke la existanta vorto "nuco" > es ciencala termino por "harda, sika, neapertanta frukto" e qua on > anke uzas ordinare. > Me ne komprenas la bezono por *nuxo. > (5) *shutar es sugesto por pafar sen bruiso. Ma me sentas ke la > difero es la moyeno lansar la projektilo. > Per mashino quale pafilo, fusilo, arko od arbalesto, on > uzas "pafar"; per manuo quale lanco, javelino o kultelo, on > uzas "jetar o lansar". Ido ja havas vorti por la reala projektili e > la verbo "vizar". La rezulto certe esos vundo o morto! > (6) *oologio es la studio di ovi ne uceli (ornitologio). > > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1219 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75459 invoked from network); 8 May 2004 21:28:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 May 2004 21:28:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.3) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2004 21:28:08 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i48LS5xx001313 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 8 May 2004 17:28:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 17:25:45 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200405081727_MC3-1-81F3-7307@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.3 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Nova vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Richard, Danko pro vua komenti, malgre lia frueso. Forsan vu esas justa, ke ni ne bezonas omna vorto quan vu mencionas desfavoroze. Tamen, li propozesis, Roze facis laboro kolektante ed imprimigante, e ni darfas adminime konsiderar ta vorti sen devo aceptar li, e certe ne omnakaze. Certe on darfas diskutar pri la neceseso di exemple *ustular (sama kam "bruletar"?) o *slendra (sama kam "tenua"?). Me traktas centi de posibla nova vorti. Singla bezonas konsidero e tempo. Por singla on mustas anke pensar, ka me ja sat longe pensis pri ol, o kad oportas nun progresar ad altra. Ofte me rivizitas vorto, e rikonsideras ol. Pose, por omna vorti propozota me invitos komenti, e certe ula propozi falios lore o plu tarde kande la DK decidos. Du miskompreni: La existanta vorto "nuco" ne esas A. nut, G. Nuss, ma segun Guignon e Pesch A. walnut, G. Walnuss, o forsan ol havas amba senci quale Dyer indikas. Irgakaze, esas dezirinda havar vorti neambigua, altrakaze, "Ka vu prizas nuci?" e "Ka vu toleras nuci?" esas ambigua, mem danjeroze ambigua. Netolero fiziologiala a certena *nuxi nun ne esas rara. Esas personi qui divenas tre malada per nur mikra parto di un *nuxo di un sorto, dum ke altra persono ne povas manjar altra sorto. Se ulu dicas ke kuko kontenas, o ne kontenas, nuco, quon signifikas ta aserto? Uli mustas ne riskar miskompreno. (Mem la simileso inter "nuxo" e "nuco" esus evitinda, forsan per remplaso di "nuco" per "walnuso" o "juglando".) Pri *shutar, to ne esas "pafar" sen bruiso, e ne esas jetar, ma lansar projektilo per armo (fusilo, arm-arko, katapulto, revolvero e.c.). Ne importas ka esas bruiso. Duesma difero utila povas esar ke on lansas projektilo, ma on *shutas ta qua recevas la projektilo. Me ne klarigis to, nam Roze ne klarigis ol. Sat ofte persono vundita o lua kamarado savas ke lu esas *shutita, ma ne savas qua esis la armo. En altra cirkonstanco ulu mustas questionar, "kad ibe la prezidanto o papo esos sekura - ka ulu povus shutar lu?" Takaze poke importus la armo, ka pafilo od altro. Certe persono ne esas lansita (ecepte de kanono en cirko!). Segun Pesch, "pafar" esas netransitiva; segun Dyer ol esas transitiva e netransitiva, ma ne esas klara a me qua esus la objekto (kuglo?, armo?, animalo?). Irgakaze, semblas ke ni bezonas vorto qua koncernas uzo di irga armo per qua on lansas projektilo, pafilo od altro. Evidente on ja pensis tale kande Roze kompilis sua raporto. Pri *oologio, me eroris e vu esas justa. Danko. Robert. _______ >Kara Loic, Christophe e Robert, (1) Me prizas vua esforci pri sugestita nova vorti. Komprenende Ido mustas atencigar ciencala e teknikala vorti, ma semblas ke dum la tempo di Roze on sugestis plura vorti quin me kredas esar superflua. (2) Ido posedas diversa prefixi e sufixi por chanjar la senco di vorto e me pensas ke tala aranjo ofte suficas kun la existanta vortaro. Forsan nun es neapta okaziono, ma me facas poka komenti. (a) *ustular. Bruletar semblas suficanta. Forsan rostetar (di karno). (b) *slendra. En dicionario ni lektas " gracila", "tenua", "dina", ed anke l'altra senco di "febla" e "povra". Certe sat multa. (3) *stegosauro e *tiranosauro e ja en Ido, plesiosauro. Ankore ni havas "dinosaurio". En la zoologiala grupo Reptilia (Repteri) existas *Dinosauria" (Dinosaurii), tale ka es Dinosaurio grupo di simila repteri? Vere, la klasifikado balde chanjos por ke la "Aves" (uceli) es fakte la rezidui di la Dinosaurii. (4) *nuxo. Kom botanikisto me komprenas ke la existanta vorto "nuco" es ciencala termino por "harda, sika, neapertanta frukto" e qua on anke uzas ordinare. Me ne komprenas la bezono por *nuxo. (5) *shutar es sugesto por pafar sen bruiso. Ma me sentas ke la difero es la moyeno lansar la projektilo. Per mashino quale pafilo, fusilo, arko od arbalesto, on uzas "pafar"; per manuo quale lanco, javelino o kultelo, on uzas "jetar o lansar". Ido ja havas vorti por la reala projektili e la verbo "vizar". La rezulto certe esos vundo o morto! (6) *oologio es la studio di ovi ne uceli (ornitologio). Amikale, Richard Stevenson. < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1220 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42751 invoked from network); 10 May 2004 04:52:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2004 04:52:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2004 04:52:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.131] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 May 2004 04:52:39 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 04:52:38 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 961 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: re nova vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert e Loic, Me dankas vi por la komenti pri nova vorti. Me agnoskas ke mea mesajo es kelke frua e ke la selekto di apta vorto es desfacila tasko, do me respondas koncize. Me konkordas ke: (1) *shutar es probable bona nepartikulara vorto por la lansado di ula projektilo, kuglo, flecho, lanco edc. pro ke existas plura konfundiganta vorti quale A:shoot, fire, discharge, throw; F. tirer un coup de feu, faire feu, lancer, jeter edc. Adminime en angla bruiso ne es sempre necesa, quale per arko o pistolo kun silencigilo! Interesante, Ido havas du inter-jecioni: paf! (subita bruiso), e shut! (silencez!) (2) *nuxo es simila vorto. Evidente "nuco" en franca es specala tipo, F: noix, A: walnut; G: walnuss. Tamen *nuxo e nuco havas tre simila sono. Ido ja havas vorti: mandelo, avelano edc., od uzas ciencala nomo. Quale vu mencionas, certena nuci facas alergii, p.e.*arakido, A; peanut, G: Erdnuss, do oportas atencez. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1221 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2067 invoked from network); 10 May 2004 17:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2004 17:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.130) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2004 17:12:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 10 May 2004 10:12:03 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.76 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 10 May 2004 17:12:03 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:12:03 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2004 17:12:03.0660 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA0628C0:01C436B1] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.130 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Hundi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Ka ni havas en Ido vorti por la varianti di hundi? Me bezonas tradukar l'angla nomo Labrador. Predanko pro via helpo! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home You know there's a handful of people who actually run everything. That's true. It's provable - I'm not a conspiracy nut. A handful, a very small elite, run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media. I have this feeling whoever's elected President, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail, when you win, you go into this smoky room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-f***s who got you in there, and this little film screen comes down. "Roll the film". And it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before, that looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up, the lights come on, and they go to the new President, "Any questions?" "Ah, just what my agenda is?" "First we bomb Baghdad." "You got it." - Bill Hicks _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1222 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88393 invoked from network); 11 May 2004 21:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2004 21:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ac.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.133) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2004 21:20:10 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.13) id i4BLK9So011574 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 May 2004 17:20:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 17:15:30 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200405111717_MC3-1-8247-52C2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.133 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Hundi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara James, Esas nomi en Ido por poka sorti di hundi (exemple: "pudelo", "levriero"). Serchante vortolibri, me trovas ke "labrador" havas la senco hundala en AFGHI, ma ke ol havas anke altra senci en plura lingui (ultre la senco geografiala!), partikulare en la Hispana. Me propozas: labradoro* A. Labrador retriever, labrador F. labrador [chien] G. Labrador(hund) H. Labrador [perro] I. labrador [cane]. Ne esas certa ka en la Hispana la vorto komencas mayuskule o minuskule (od ambe), nam mea vortolibro tradukala donas un en un loko ed altra en altra loko. Tote Hispana dicionario ne inkluzas la vorto en ta senco. Me esperas ke to helpas. Robert. _________ >Kar amiki Ka ni havas en Ido vorti por la varianti di hundi? Me bezonas tradukar l'angla nomo Labrador. Predanko pro via helpo! Kordiale, James Chandler< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1223 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10524 invoked from network); 23 May 2004 08:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2004 08:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.114) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2004 08:44:26 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 23 May 2004 01:44:25 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.69 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 23 May 2004 08:44:25 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:44:25 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 May 2004 08:44:25.0974 (UTC) FILETIME=[2732D960:01C440A2] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.114 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] Linguala questioni X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Adrian, kara Robert La regulo en Ido es ke irgu darfas uzar neoficala, to es, propozata vorto markizita per asterisko apud la vorto. Tale: situaciono* o *situaciono. Me ne savas, ka ca regulo es ipsa oficala, se ol es skribita ulaloke en statuto. Tamen ol es konvenciono depos yardeki che l'idisti. Pri la vorto situaciono*, me definis ol plurafoye kom "situeso abstrakta", to es, ensemblo de cirkonstanci, abstrakta poziciono relate extera eventi. Me ne volas definar ol omnafoye me uzas ica vorto. Pri matematikala vortaro, ja existas tala elaborita dum la frua yari di Ido. Ol certe bezonas aktualigo ed expanso, to es bona projeto ma matematiko es nuntempe enorma feldo kun multega subfeldi - la tasko esus vere enorma! Linguala saluti. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "I see most of these elitist individuals, these snobs, I see them as pathetic, and this is really a gross analogy but I'll use it. When I see a whole bunch of dog turds being laid over this society, I don't run around stomping on them 'cos I don't wanna get it on my feet. I say to the general public: let's clean these up, and let's tell these people they can't do this any more, that they can't shit on us, that's really what I'm saying. You can't shit on us any more. I just want them to stop shitting on us." - Alex Jones, infowars.com _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1224 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94047 invoked from network); 24 May 2004 09:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2004 09:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0304.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2004 09:46:22 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-2-102.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.252.102]) by mwinf0304.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5586EA804077; Mon, 24 May 2004 11:45:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <019e01c44174$49977150$66fc0d50@arno> To: , , , Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:48:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.28 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Franclingu(al)a Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Bon jorno, Ta interretala adreso http://www.yakeo.com/fr/dictionnaires/ havas ligilo a http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/8009/idolinguo.html Amikal saluti Jean From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1225 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6705 invoked from network); 26 May 2004 20:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2004 20:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.3) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2004 20:20:05 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i4QKJCwN011529; Wed, 26 May 2004 16:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:16:53 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Cc: uli-ido Message-ID: <200405261618_MC3-1-8337-AE6D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.3 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Hispana tradukuri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Ye 6 mayo me demandis Hispana tradukuri por posibla nova vorti propozebla. Kad irgu povas helpar? Danko. Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1226 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65283 invoked from network); 27 May 2004 00:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2004 00:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO viriato1.servicios.retecal.es) (212.89.0.44) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2004 00:08:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 29033 invoked from network); 27 May 2004 00:07:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fernando) ([212.183.201.49]) (envelope-sender ) by 0 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 May 2004 00:07:37 -0000 Message-ID: <001c01c4437e$f6bf77e0$31c9b7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> To: "LinguoListo" Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 02:10:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.89.0.44 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Tej=F3n?= Subject: Hispana tradukuri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert C Yen mea helpeto pri la tradukuri bezonata: A=3Dangla; F= =3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto;= L=3Dlatina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]=3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta= Vorti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos kursi= ve *Adjari.a / parto di Turkia til 1878, nun parto di Gruzia. Hisp. dicion= ario (1997) donas nur "Adzharia" / A: Adzharia F: Adjarie G: Adscharien H: = Adzharia I: Agiaristan *amfipodo / sorto di krustaceo o molusko / A: amphi= pod F: amphipode H: anf=EDpodo I: anfipode, pulce di mare E: amfipodo L: Am= phipoda *brasiko / planto di kategorio qua inkluzas kaulo, napo e.c. / A: = brassica F: brassicac=E9e G: [Pl.] Kohlpflanzen H: col I: cappuccio, cavolo= E: brasiko L: Brassica *citozino / adenino, guanino, *citozino e *timino = esas la 4 fundamentala biokemiaji genala / A: cytosine F: cytosine H: citos= ina I: citosina E: citozino *dafni.o / krustaceo aquala / A: daphnid, ~wat= er flea F: daphnie [crustac=E9 branchiopode d'eau douce], puce d'eau H: daf= nia I: dafnia E: dafnio, akvopulo L: Daphnia (pulex) *deflacion.o / senci = ekonomikala e geologiala (ventala erodo). Pesch havas *deflacar (senco ekon= .) / A: deflation [econ.; geol.] F: d=E9flation [=E9con., g=E9ol.] G: Defla= tion [Wirtschaft; Geol.] H: deflaci=F3n [econ.] I: deflazione [econ., geol.= ] E: deflacio [ekon., geol.] *ektomorf.o / persono di sorto kun dina (*sle= ndra) korpo / A: ectomorph F: ectomorphe G: ektomorpher Konstitutionstyp H:= ectomorfo I: ectomorfo *franchis.ar [tr] / permisar (firmo o persono) ven= dar, en ula distrikto, vari o servi uzante por oli sua (ne lua) nomo komerc= ala (ta dil *franchisanto) / A: to grant a franchise to [commercial sense] = F: franchiser H: franquiciar E: ~koncesii *Ganimed.o / (1) persono mitala;= (2) satelito di *Neptuno, deskovrita da Galileo / A: Ganymede [myth.; moon= ] F: Ganym=E8de [myth.; satellite] H: Gan=EDmedes [mitol.; sat=E9lite] I: G= animede [mitol.; astr.] *gingam.o / sorto di texuro, kotona kun strii di d= u kolori / A: gingham F: vichy [toile de coton] G: Gingan, Gingham H: guing= a E: gingamo* *gluono / partikulo atomala / A: gluon F: gluon H: glu=F3n I= : gluone E: gluono *Hasid.al.a / pri *Hasido (sekto di Judaismo) / A: Hass= idic, Hasidic, Chassidic, Chasidic F: hassidique G: chasarisch H: has=EDdic= o ? I: hassidico E: H^asida *heterolog.a / termino patologiala / A: hetero= logous F: h=E9t=E9rologue G: heterolog H: heter=F3logo ? I: eterologo *hid= rosolo / sorto di *solo (sorto di koloido) / A: hydrosol F: hydrosol H: hid= rosol I: idrosol E: hidrosolo *Hindustan / norda parto di India, sen Benga= l / A: Hindustan F: Hindoustan G: Hindustan H: Hindost=E1n ? I: Indostan E:= Hindustano *hipnoterapi.o / uzo di hipnoto por kuraco / A: hypnotherapy F= : hypnoth=E9rapie H: hipnoterapia I: ipnoterapia *hipoxi.o / manko di oxig= eno atinganta la tisui / A: hypoxia F: hypox=E9mie G: Hypoxie H: hipoxia I:= ipossia *horologi.o ? / arto di konstrukto di horloji / A: horology [art = of constructing clocks and watches], horography F: horlogerie [art] G: Uhrm= acherkunst H: relojer=EDa I: orologeria *iguanodon.o / sorto di dinosaurio= / A: iguanodon F: iguanodon G: Iguanodon H: Iguanodonte I: iguanodonte E: = igvanodonto *indri.o / mamifero di genero "Indri" / A: indri, indris, baba= coote F: indri H: indri I: indri E: indrio L: Indri indri *inflacion.ism.o= / politiko di *inflaciono / A: inflationism F: inflationnisme G: Inflation= ismus H: inflacionismo I: inflazionismo E: inflaciismo *inflacion.ist.o / = kredanto ye *inflacionismo / A: inflationist F: inflationniste [n.] H: infl= acionista I: inflazionista *iridec.ar [ntr] / reflektar lumo ye kolori cha= njanta (fenomeno di exemple aerobuleti, perlomatro ed ula plumi); tale *iri= decanta / A: to be iridescent, iridesce F: =EAtre iridescent, chatoyer G: s= chillern in Regenbogenfarben H: ser iridiscente, ser irisado E: irizi, iriz= ig^i *izopodo / krustaceo / A: isopod F: isopode G: Assel, Isopode H: is= =F3podo I: isopode E: izopodo L: Isopoda *kend.o / metodo Japoniana di kom= bato uzante stango, anke praktikata kom sporto / A: kendo F: kendo H: kendo= I: kendo *kladistik.o / metodo klasifikala biologiala. Adjektivo F. es "c= ladistique" / A: cladistics F: cladisme H: clad=EDstica I: cladistica E: kl= adiko *klamidio / mikrobo bakteriatra e virusatra, aktiva ye ula morbi / A= : chlamydia F: chlamydia H: clamidio I: clamidia E: klamidio *kloropren.o = / kemiajo / A: chloroprene F: chloropr=E8ne H: cloropreno I: cloroprene E: = kloropreno *kopepodo / tre mikra krustaceo / A: copepod F: cop=E9pode [zoo= l.] H: cop=E9podo I: copepode E: kopepodo L: Copepoda *laminari.o / bruna = algo marala, ye formo di longa rubandi; kelka sorti esas manjebla / A: kelp= [=B0Laminaria=B0] F: laminaire [algue] G: Braunalge, Laminaria H: laminari= a I: laminaria E: laminario L: Laminaria *lime.o / acida frukto, mikra e v= erd(et)a, ronda od ovala, richa ye vitamino C (Ne: limeto =3D Citrus limett= a. Ne: limono =3D Citrus limon) / A: lime [fruit] F: lime [fruit; pas limet= te] H: ? {noto: H: lima =3D Ido: limeto} I: limetta acida [frutto: =B0Citr= us aurantifolia=B0] E: limeo, verda citrono [frukto] L: Citrus aurantiifoli= a; Citrus aurantifolia *lime.ier.o A: lime tree [citrus] F: lime [arbre; p= as limettier] H: ? I: limetta acida, lumia [alberetto: =B0Citrus aurantifol= ia=B0] E: limeo, limeujo, verda citrono [arbo] L: Citrus aurantiifolia; Cit= rus aurantifolia *link.o / parto (ringo od altra formo) qua juntesas ad ap= uda parti di kateno; anke metafore: parto di kontinua serio, kauzala o logi= kala konsequo. Roze,p88 / A: link [of a chain; also fig.] F: cha=EEnon [ann= eau d'une cha=EEne; aussi fig.] G: Glied [Teil, Kettenglied] H: eslab=F3n [= de una cadena; tambi=E9n fig.] E: c^enero; ~ligilo *lipoprotein.o / sorto = di proteino / A: lipoprotein F: lipoprot=E9ine H: lipoprote=EDna I: lipopro= teina E: lipoproteino, lipidproteino *luminec.ar [ntr] / emisar lumo ye ba= sa temperaturo, exemple fosforece o kemie, kontraste ad inkandecar / A: to = be luminescent, luminesce F: =EAtre luminescent G: lumineszieren H: ser lum= inescente E: lumineski *mahoni.o / planto / A: mahonia F: mahonia H: mahon= ia ? I: maonia [genere Mahonia] E: mahonio L: Mahonia *margay.o / mamifero= / A: margay F: margay G: Baumozelot, Langschwanzkatze H: margay L: Felis w= iedii, Leopardus wiedii *marian.o / planto / A: milk thistle F: chardon Ma= rie G: Mariendistel H: ? L: Silybum marianum, Carduus marianum *nux.o / so= rto di nature sika frukto, quale avelano, mandelo, nuco e.c. / A: nut [bota= nical] G: Nuss H: nuez [fruto seco] E: nukso *pedikur.ar [tr] / sorgar o f= legar la piedi di; analoge a "manikurar"; tale *pedikuristo e.c. / A: to pe= dicure, give (a) pedicure to F: donner des soins de p=E9dicure =E0 G: pedik= =FCren H: hacer la pedicura E: pedikuri *permeanco / qualeso di cirkuito m= agnetala, simila a konduktiveso elektrala; kontreajo di *reluktanco / A: pe= rmeance [elec.] F: perm=E9ance H: permeabilidad I: permeanza [fis.] E: perm= eanco *Prus.a / pri populo Baltika (ne Germana!) e lia linguo, simila a La= tviana e Lituaniana, qua parolesis til 17ma yarcento / A: Prussian [Baltic]= , Old Prussian F: prussien [relatif =E0 la Prusse] H: ? E: Prusa *Prus.o /= membro di olima populo Baltika (ne Germana) / A: Prussian [member of a Bal= tic people] F: Prussien [habitant de la Prusse] H: ? E: Pruso *resembl.ar = [tr] / Roze,p97. Aspektar simila a, havar aspekti komuna kun. Ex.: El multe= resemblas sua matro; il esas resemblata da nulu / A: to resemble F: ressem= bler H: parecerse a I: somigliare a, rassomigliare a *shut.ar [tr] / Roze= ,p98. Batar [ulo od ulu] per ulo (dardo, flecho, kuglo, e.c.) lansita per a= rmo (arko, kanono, pafilo, e.c.). Diferas de "pafar" e "lansar". Roze,p98: = mixita; "pafar" restriktesus al shuti bruisoza por karakterizar la bruiso. = On povas *shutar per arko, fusilo e.c. "Ne *shutez!" / A: to shoot [hit wit= h a missile discharged from a weapon] F: tirer [=E0 l'aide d'une arme] G: a= nschie=DFen H: disparar I: colpire, abbattere E: pafi *stegosaur.o / sort= o di dinosaurio / A: stegosaur F: st=E9gosaure G: Stegosaurier H: estegosau= rio I: stegosauro E: stegosau`ro *tiranosaur.o / dinosaurio / A: tyrannosa= ur, tyrannosaurus F: tyrannosaure G: Tyrannosaurus H: tiranosaurio I: tiran= nosauro E: tiranosauro *uracilo / biokemiajo en omna celulo vivanta (C4H4N= 2O2) / A: uracil F: uracile H: uracilo I: uracile E: uracilo *valut.o / pe= kunio di ula lando o banko-sistemo / A: currency, money [of a particular co= untry or banking system], foreign exchange F: devise(s) [monnaie] G: Valuta= [W=E4hrung], (ausl=E4ndische) W=E4hrung H: divisa, moneda [de un pa=EDs] I= : valuta [moneta circolante] E: valuto [mono] *Yakut.a / pri populo e ling= uo precipua di *Yakutia, lando di Siberia / A: Yakut [adj.] F: iakoute G: j= akutisch H: ? yakuto E: Jakuta *Yakut.o / persono *Yakuta / A: Yakut [pers= on] F: Iakoute G: Jakute H: ? yakuto E: Jakuto *yul.o / celebro tre ancien= a dil solstico vintrala, pose adoptita ed adaptita dal eklezio kom Kristnas= ko(festo). Videz Pesch,p631 / A: yule [pre-Christian celebration] F: No=EBl= [r=E9f=E9rence a la f=EAte pr=E9-chr=E9tienne] G: Jul, Julfest H: ? navida= d ... ? E: Julo {FINO} [Non-text portions of this message have been rem= oved] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1227 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60627 invoked from network); 28 May 2004 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2004 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2004 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.144] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2004 08:56:54 -0000 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:56:52 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2995 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Parenti dil Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara samideani Me havas grandega problemo, qua esas importanta por me: Me ne povas dicar o rakontar en Ido pri mea laboro, pro ke ne existas (?) vorti por lo. En Ido on ne uzas duopla konsonanti en radiki ma me tre bezonas duopla-n, pro ke me ne amas esar homulo di "fino" o di "feno". Me esas linguisto e me laboras en domeno dil parenta lingui dil Finlandana linguo, do me esas fenna-ugristo* en domeno fenna-ugristiko*. Quale vi vidas, on bezonas la vorto "fenno, fenna" o "finno, finna" tre ofte. E me bezonas respondaro. Pluse, ne existas vorti por parenta lingui (e populi) dil Finlandana. Me donas sube a vi listo dil parenta lingui dil Finlandana organizata segun linguala parenteso: Urala* lingui (linguaro*, familio di lingui) (A: Uralic Languages, G: Uralische Sprachen) (A) Samoyeda* lingui (A: Samoyedic, G: Samojedische) (A.1-6) (sis lingui) (B) Fenna-Ugra* brancho (A: Finno-Ugric, G: Finnisch-ugrische) (B.1) Ugra* grupo (B.1.1) Hungariana (B.1.2) Ob-Ugra* subgrupo (B.1.2.1) Ostyaka* (B.1.2.2) Vogula* (B.2) Fenna-Perma* brancho (B.2.1) Perma* grupo (A: Permic, G: Permische) (B.2.1.1) Ziryena* (B.2.1.2) Votyaka* (B.2.2) Fenna-Volga* brancho (B.2.2.1) Volga* grupo (A: Volgaic, G: Wolgaische) (B.2.2.1.1) Cheremisa* (B.2.2.1.2) Mordvina* (konsistas ek du lingui) (B.2.2.2) Fenna-Lappa* (o F.-Samika*) brancho (A: Baltic-Finnic-Sami, G: Ostsee-Finnisch-Samische = Lappische) (B.2.2.2.1) Lappa* (Samika*) grupo (A: Samic, G: Samische = Lappische) (B.2.2.2.1.1-x) (Multa mikra lingui, ne dialekti!) (B.2.2.2.2) Baltiko-Fenna* grupo (A: Baltic-Finnic, G: Ostsee-Finnische) (Latviana e Lituaniana esas Balta lingui e ne esas parenta lingui dil Finlandana!) (B.2.2.2.2.1) Finlandana (B.2.2.2.2.2) Estoniana (B.2.2.2.2.3) Kareliana* (B.2.2.2.2.4) Vepsiana* (B.2.2.2.2.5) Votiana* (B.2.2.2.2.6) Livoniana* Ka ica hierarkio esas uzebla: linguaro* > brancho > grupo > subgrupo > ula linguo > dialekto > subdialekto? Hike on ne povas uzar la vorto "Finlandana", pro ke ol signifikas "linguo parolata en Finlando" ed omna Fenna-Ugra lingui ne parolesas en Finlando. Pluse, "Finlandana lingui" povas signifikar "lingui parolata en Finlando", do Finlandana, Suediana, Laplandana, Rusa, Ciganiana, e.c. (Ka ni havas quala problemo kun la vorto "Nederlandana"?) Supre skribita nomi esez termini en cienco, ma ica populi havas propra nomi por sua linguo e por homo en sua lingui exter cienco. Do Ostyako = Hanti, Vogulo = Mansi, Ziryeno = Komi, Votyako = Udmurt, Cheremiso = Mari, Mordvino = Erzya o Moksha, (+ Finlandana = Suomi). Nuntempa nomi di loki relatas ica vorti. Landi (en Rusa Federuro) esas Komilando*, Marilando*, Udmurtia*, Mordovia*, e chef-urbo di Yugria* esas Hanti-Mansiysk*. Ni uzas nun ica propra nomi en Finlandana, pro ke la ciencala vorti havas pejorativa senco en nomizata populi. Kad asteriskizita vorti esas uzebla? Grandega danko se vu lektis til la FINO. Amikale Arto Moisio, Finlando (ne Fin-lando) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1228 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89120 invoked from network); 29 May 2004 16:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2004 16:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf1002.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.21) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2004 16:03:43 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-4-200.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.15.153.200]) by mwinf1002.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 44BD61C00195; Sat, 29 May 2004 18:03:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <058e01c44596$eac13cc0$c8990f50@arno> To: Cc: , , Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:06:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.21 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?De_la_racine_-ev-_en_fran=E7ais_et_en_ido_/_Pri_la_radiko_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?-ev-_en_la_Franca_e_la_Ida?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, ceci va int=E9resser celles et ceux d'entre vous qui lisent le = fran=E7ais. Le verbe "evar" surprend toujours l'idiste qui vient de l'espe= ranto o=F9 il avait l'habitude de dire et d'=E9crire "aghi". Je voulais che= rcher l'origine de la racine "ev" et je l'ai trouv=E9e aujourd'hui par hasa= rd. "ev" vient du latin "aevum", =E2ge et il appara=EEt dans trois mots fr= an=E7ais seulement : - long=E9vit=E9 =3D> long/=E9v/it=E9 (=3Ddur=E9e de la= vie) - m=E9di=E9val =3D> m=E9d(i)/=E9v/al (=3Dqui est relatif au Moyen-=C2= ge) - m=E9di=E9viste =3D> m=E9d(i)/=E9v/iste (=3Dsp=E9cialiste du Moyen-=C2= ge). Ces renseignements, et bien d'autres encore, figurent dans un extraor= dinaire dictionnaire qui vient tout juste de sortir : le "Robert Brio" o=F9= sont analys=E9s 33000 mots et 1856 radicaux. Voil=E0 qui va faciliter la = t=E2che des futurs auteurs de dictionnaires bilingues fran=E7ais-ido... Am= iti=E9s Jean Rezumuro (espereble sen tro multa erori !) En la tre recenta = franclinguala vortolibro "Robert Brio" la Franca analizesis segun lua radik= i, de qua "ev" (konocita dal idistaro) trovesas en nur tri vorti (long=C9Vi= t=E9 / vivoduro; m=E9diEVal / mezepokala; m=E9diEViste / mezepokala ciencis= to). Ta libro esos granda helpo por la tradukeri de la Franca ad la Ida. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1229 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9616 invoked from network); 29 May 2004 20:13:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2004 20:13:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ad.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.6) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2004 20:13:14 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ad.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i4TKD7g5003902 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 29 May 2004 16:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:12:02 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200405291612_MC3-1-8371-ACE2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.6 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Parenti dil Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Arto Moisio, Yes, esas problemo, ke existas centi o mili di planti, animali, lingui, populi, minerali e.c. por qui preske certe existas nomi en omna grava lingui nacionala, ma ankore mankas nomi en Ido. Me laboras de tempo a tempo pri tala nomi, ma la tasko esas tre granda, mem se on pensas nur pri kelka mili de nova vorti (por esar adminime mi-realista!). Duesma problemo esas ke lexiki generala ofte ne inkluzas tala vorti, ma ni bezonas savar la tradukuri por selektar Idala formo. Parenteze, lingui nacionala semblas uzar alternativi por (Angle) "Finno-Ugrian" o "Finno-Ugric" nam en ula lingui on trovas la elementi "U..." e "F..." en altra ordino. Pri vua deziro ne esar homulo di fino (o feno), esas simila problemeto pri diversa altra vorti quale "kubano" (di kubo o Kuba?), saraceno(*), parto (di Partia?) ed altri. Pro to semblas a me ke uzo di mayuskulo por la populano o linguo esas irgakaze utila. Me komprenas anke ke esus utila adoptar vorto "Fina" (o "Finna") por distingar ta linguo Finlandana qua ne esas la sola linguo Finlandana ma qua esas ofte tale nomata. Forsan per vua helpo ni povos decidar pri apta nomi por adminime ula lingui e populi. Ka vu povas donar tradukuri en Angla, Franca, Germana, Hispana, Italiana e Rusa (AFGHIR o DEFIRS) quale vu ja facis ulakaze por Angla e Germana? Li esas la bazala lingui di Ido. Kordiale, Robert. ________ >Kara samideani Me havas grandega problemo, qua esas importanta por me: Me ne povas dicar o rakontar en Ido pri mea laboro, pro ke ne existas (?) vorti por lo. En Ido on ne uzas duopla konsonanti en radiki ma me tre bezonas duopla-n, pro ke me ne amas esar homulo di "fino" o di "feno". Me esas linguisto e me laboras en domeno dil parenta lingui dil Finlandana linguo, do me esas fenna-ugristo* en domeno fenna-ugristiko*. Quale vi vidas, on bezonas la vorto "fenno, fenna" o "finno, finna" tre ofte. E me bezonas respondaro. Pluse, ne existas vorti por parenta lingui (e populi) dil Finlandana. Me donas sube a vi listo dil parenta lingui dil Finlandana organizata segun linguala parenteso: Urala* lingui (linguaro*, familio di lingui) (A: Uralic Languages, G: Uralische Sprachen) (A) Samoyeda* lingui (A: Samoyedic, G: Samojedische) (A.1-6) (sis lingui) (B) Fenna-Ugra* brancho (A: Finno-Ugric, G: Finnisch-ugrische) (B.1) Ugra* grupo (B.1.1) Hungariana (B.1.2) Ob-Ugra* subgrupo (B.1.2.1) Ostyaka* (B.1.2.2) Vogula* (B.2) Fenna-Perma* brancho (B.2.1) Perma* grupo (A: Permic, G: Permische) (B.2.1.1) Ziryena* (B.2.1.2) Votyaka* (B.2.2) Fenna-Volga* brancho (B.2.2.1) Volga* grupo (A: Volgaic, G: Wolgaische) (B.2.2.1.1) Cheremisa* (B.2.2.1.2) Mordvina* (konsistas ek du lingui) (B.2.2.2) Fenna-Lappa* (o F.-Samika*) brancho (A: Baltic-Finnic-Sami, G: Ostsee-Finnisch-Samische = Lappische) (B.2.2.2.1) Lappa* (Samika*) grupo (A: Samic, G: Samische = Lappische) (B.2.2.2.1.1-x) (Multa mikra lingui, ne dialekti!) (B.2.2.2.2) Baltiko-Fenna* grupo (A: Baltic-Finnic, G: Ostsee-Finnische) (Latviana e Lituaniana esas Balta lingui e ne esas parenta lingui dil Finlandana!) (B.2.2.2.2.1) Finlandana (B.2.2.2.2.2) Estoniana (B.2.2.2.2.3) Kareliana* (B.2.2.2.2.4) Vepsiana* (B.2.2.2.2.5) Votiana* (B.2.2.2.2.6) Livoniana* Ka ica hierarkio esas uzebla: linguaro* > brancho > grupo > subgrupo > ula linguo > dialekto > subdialekto? Hike on ne povas uzar la vorto "Finlandana", pro ke ol signifikas "linguo parolata en Finlando" ed omna Fenna-Ugra lingui ne parolesas en Finlando. Pluse, "Finlandana lingui" povas signifikar "lingui parolata en Finlando", do Finlandana, Suediana, Laplandana, Rusa, Ciganiana, e.c. (Ka ni havas quala problemo kun la vorto "Nederlandana"?) Supre skribita nomi esez termini en cienco, ma ica populi havas propra nomi por sua linguo e por homo en sua lingui exter cienco. Do Ostyako = Hanti, Vogulo = Mansi, Ziryeno = Komi, Votyako = Udmurt, Cheremiso = Mari, Mordvino = Erzya o Moksha, (+ Finlandana = Suomi). Nuntempa nomi di loki relatas ica vorti. Landi (en Rusa Federuro) esas Komilando*, Marilando*, Udmurtia*, Mordovia*, e chef-urbo di Yugria* esas Hanti-Mansiysk*. Ni uzas nun ica propra nomi en Finlandana, pro ke la ciencala vorti havas pejorativa senco en nomizata populi. Kad asteriskizita vorti esas uzebla? Grandega danko se vu lektis til la FINO. Amikale Arto Moisio, Finlando (ne Fin-lando)< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1230 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39644 invoked from network); 30 May 2004 15:23:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2004 15:23:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0204.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2004 15:23:10 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-1-32.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.11.219.32]) by mwinf0204.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id B8811A000060; Sun, 30 May 2004 17:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <031001c4465a$7194bab0$20db0b50@arno> To: Cc: , , Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:26:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.29 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Dictionnaire Francais - Ido : l'exemple de la racine francaise -edit- [texto en la Franca] / Franca - Ido dicionario : la exemplo dil franca radiko -edit - X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bonjour =E0 tous, voici un petit travail pratique qui donnera une id=E9e d= e l'ampleur de la t=E2che ! Mi ne kurajis tradukar ta texto aden ido... e = me prizentas nun exkuzi ! Si l'on cherche dans un dictionnaire complet de = la langue fran=E7aise tous les mots qui commencent par =E9dit-, on trouve s= ans peine : 1. =E9diter (verbe) 2. =E9diteur (nom) 3. =E9diteur (adjectif) = 4. =E9dition (nom) 5. =E9ditionner (verbe, terme technique) 6. =E9ditorial = (nom) 7. =E9ditorial (adjectif) 8. =E9ditorialiste La lecture de tous les = articles correspondants aux mots pr=E9c=E9dents permet d'ajouter : 9. mais= on d'=E9dition (nom) 10. soci=E9t=E9 =E9ditrice (nom) 11. libraire =E9diteu= r (nom) 12. =E9diteur responsable (nom) les num=E9ros 8 =E0 11 pouvant d'a= illeurs =EAtre regroup=E9s avec les n=B0 2 et 3. Un bon dictionnaire alpha= b=E9tique bilingue, tel le ROBERT-SIGNORELLI, donne normalement les informa= tions relatives aux n=B0 1 =E0 11. Avec le nouveau dictionnaire LE ROBERT = BRIO, nous compl=E8terons sans peine la liste comme suit : 13. co=E9dition= (nom) 14. co=E9diter (verbe) 15. in=E9dit (nom) 16. in=E9dit (adjectif) 17= . r=E9=E9diter (verbe) 18. r=E9=E9dition (nom) Donnons maintenant des exem= ples illustrant les num=E9ros 1 =E0 5 : 1a. =E9diter un roman, un jeu vid= =E9o (=3D le publier et le mettre en vente) 1b. =E9diter un auteur (=3D =E9= diter ses ouvrages) 1c. =E9diter la "Chanson de Roland" (=3D faire para=EEt= re le texte en le pr=E9sentant et en l'annotant) 1c. [Informatique] =E9dite= r une donn=E9e (=3D l'afficher et en permettre la lecture sur =E9cran d'ord= inateur) Poursuivons, mais sans commenter les exemples : 2a. c'=E9tait un= grand =E9diteur 2b. libraire =E9diteur 2c. =E9diteur responsable 2d. notes= de l'=E9diteur 2e. =E9diteur (=3D programme permettant d'=E9diter les info= rmations d'un fichier informatique). Anglais : editor. 3. soci=E9t=E9 =E9d= itrice de films 4a. =E9dition d'un disque 4b. =E9dition de luxe, =E9dition= originale, =E9dition revue et corrig=E9e, =E9dition sp=E9ciale 4c. il trav= aille dans l'=E9dition, au syndicat de l'=E9dition 4d. (sens figur=E9) Deux= i=E8me =E9dition ! (=3D C'est la deuxi=E8me fois qu'on te le dit ! Tu n'as = pas =E9cout=E9 !) 4e. =E9dition critique (=3D action) 4f. =E9dition critiq= ue (=3D r=E9sultat) 5. "Marquer les exemplaires d'une =E9dition d'une ment= ion de tirage : n=B0 =E9dition, n=B0 mille". En italien : mettere, indicare= il numero dell'edizione. Bien =E9videmment, les traductions en ido permet= tront des regroupements dans la partie fran=E7aise du dictionnaire : - l'a= cte d'=E9diter (edit.o) concerne les n=B0 4a et 4e - le r=E9sultat (edit.ur= .o) s'applique =E0 4b et 4f - edit.eri.o traduit 9 et 10 - edit.ist.ar.al.a= sindikat.o renvoie au camarade syndiqu=E9 de 4c ! Tout d=E9pend en fait d= u volume de l'ouvrage envisag=E9 et les r=E9cents dictionnaires LAROUSSE do= nnent tous les corpus possibles, depuis les plus petits. Voici le plus gra= nd de tous, un monument =E0 la gloire de la langue fran=E7aise : http://ati= lf.atilf.fr/tlfv3.htm Amikal saluti Jean Cassignol [Non-text portions of = this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1231 Return-Path: X-Sender: conocimientopleno@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5051 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2004 08:24:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2004 08:24:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2004 08:24:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2004 08:24:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2004 08:24:03 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001c01c4437e$f6bf77e0$31c9b7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 10833 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.78 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Adri=E1n_Pastrana?= Subject: Re: Hispana tradukuri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136053279 X-Yahoo-Profile: kanaria1973 Yen kelka remarki pri la tradukuri da Fernando. *Adjari.a =3D Adzharia, Adj= aria amba vorti esas korekta *deflacion.o =3D deflaci=F3n [econ., geol.] *G= animed.o =3D (1) persono mitala; (2) satelito di *Neptuno, deskovrita da G= alileo. Ka *Ganimedo ne esas satelito di Jupitero? *gingam.o =3D vichy me = ne savas ka la vorto "guinga" esas korekta... me serchos lu *Hasid.al.a =3D= has=EDdico Yes, has=EDdico esas korekta *Hindustan =3D Indost=E1n, Hindost= =E1n L'unesma vorto esas la maxim uzata *iridec.ar [ntr]=3D ser irisdicente= , irisar Saluti amikala! Adri=E1n Pastrana --- In linguolisto@yahoo= groups.com, Fernando Tej=F3n wrote: > Kara Robert C > = > Yen mea helpeto pri la tradukuri bezonata: > > > > A=3Dangla; F=3Dfran= ca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto; > L= =3Dlatina > [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]=3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta= > Vorti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos ku= rsive > > *Adjari.a > / parto di Turkia til 1878, nun parto di Gruzia. His= p. dicionario (1997) > donas nur "Adzharia" / > A: Adzharia > F: Adjarie >= G: Adscharien > H: Adzharia > I: Agiaristan > > *amfipodo > / sorto di kr= ustaceo o molusko / > A: amphipod > F: amphipode > H: anf=EDpodo > I: anfip= ode, pulce di mare > E: amfipodo > L: Amphipoda > > *brasiko > / planto di= kategorio qua inkluzas kaulo, napo e.c. / > A: brassica > F: brassicac=E9e= > G: [Pl.] Kohlpflanzen > H: col > I: cappuccio, cavolo > E: brasiko > L: = Brassica > > *citozino > / adenino, guanino, *citozino e *timino esas la 4= fundamentala biokemiaji > genala / > A: cytosine > F: cytosine > H: citos= ina > I: citosina > E: citozino > > *dafni.o > / krustaceo aquala / > A: d= aphnid, ~water flea > F: daphnie [crustac=E9 branchiopode d'eau douce], puc= e d'eau > H: dafnia > I: dafnia > E: dafnio, akvopulo > L: Daphnia (pulex) = > > *deflacion.o > / senci ekonomikala e geologiala (ventala erodo). Pesch= havas *deflacar > (senco ekon.) / > A: deflation [econ.; geol.] > F: d=E9= flation [=E9con., g=E9ol.] > G: Deflation [Wirtschaft; Geol.] > H: deflaci= =F3n [econ.] > I: deflazione [econ., geol.] > E: deflacio [ekon., geol.] > = > *ektomorf.o > / persono di sorto kun dina (*slendra) korpo / > A: ectomo= rph > F: ectomorphe > G: ektomorpher Konstitutionstyp > H: ectomorfo > I: e= ctomorfo > > *franchis.ar [tr] > / permisar (firmo o persono) vendar, en u= la distrikto, vari o servi uzante > por oli sua (ne lua) nomo komercala (t= a dil *franchisanto) / > A: to grant a franchise to [commercial sense] > F:= franchiser > H: franquiciar > E: ~koncesii > > *Ganimed.o > / (1) persono= mitala; (2) satelito di *Neptuno, deskovrita da Galileo / > A: Ganymede [= myth.; moon] > F: Ganym=E8de [myth.; satellite] > H: Gan=EDmedes [mitol.; s= at=E9lite] > I: Ganimede [mitol.; astr.] > > *gingam.o > / sorto di texuro= , kotona kun strii di du kolori / > A: gingham > F: vichy [toile de coton] = > G: Gingan, Gingham > H: guinga > E: gingamo* > > *gluono > / partikulo a= tomala / > A: gluon > F: gluon > H: glu=F3n > I: gluone > E: gluono > > *H= asid.al.a > / pri *Hasido (sekto di Judaismo) / > A: Hassidic, Hasidic, Cha= ssidic, Chasidic > F: hassidique > G: chasarisch > H: has=EDdico ? > I: has= sidico > E: H^asida > > *heterolog.a > / termino patologiala / > A: hetero= logous > F: h=E9t=E9rologue > G: heterolog > H: heter=F3logo ? > I: eterolo= go > > *hidrosolo > / sorto di *solo (sorto di koloido) / > A: hydrosol > = F: hydrosol > H: hidrosol > I: idrosol > E: hidrosolo > > *Hindustan > / n= orda parto di India, sen Bengal / > A: Hindustan > F: Hindoustan > G: Hindu= stan > H: Hindost=E1n ? > I: Indostan > E: Hindustano > > *hipnoterapi.o >= / uzo di hipnoto por kuraco / > A: hypnotherapy > F: hypnoth=E9rapie > H: = hipnoterapia > I: ipnoterapia > > *hipoxi.o > / manko di oxigeno atinganta= la tisui / > A: hypoxia > F: hypox=E9mie > G: Hypoxie > H: hipoxia > I: ip= ossia > > *horologi.o ? > / arto di konstrukto di horloji / > A: horology = [art of constructing clocks and watches], horography > F: horlogerie [art] = > G: Uhrmacherkunst > H: relojer=EDa > I: orologeria > > *iguanodon.o > / = sorto di dinosaurio / > A: iguanodon > F: iguanodon > G: Iguanodon > H: Igu= anodonte > I: iguanodonte > E: igvanodonto > > *indri.o > / mamifero di ge= nero "Indri" / > A: indri, indris, babacoote > F: indri > H: indri > I: ind= ri > E: indrio > L: Indri indri > > *inflacion.ism.o > / politiko di *infl= aciono / > A: inflationism > F: inflationnisme > G: Inflationismus > H: inf= lacionismo > I: inflazionismo > E: inflaciismo > > *inflacion.ist.o > / kr= edanto ye *inflacionismo / > A: inflationist > F: inflationniste [n.] > H: = inflacionista > I: inflazionista > > *iridec.ar [ntr] > / reflektar lumo y= e kolori chanjanta (fenomeno di exemple aerobuleti, > perlomatro ed ula pl= umi); tale *iridecanta / > A: to be iridescent, iridesce > F: =EAtre irides= cent, chatoyer > G: schillern in Regenbogenfarben > H: ser iridiscente, ser= irisado > E: irizi, irizig^i > > *izopodo > / krustaceo / > A: isopod > F= : isopode > G: Assel, Isopode > H: is=F3podo > I: isopode > E: izopodo > L:= Isopoda > > *kend.o > / metodo Japoniana di kombato uzante stango, anke p= raktikata kom sporto / > A: kendo > F: kendo > H: kendo > I: kendo > > *k= ladistik.o > / metodo klasifikala biologiala. Adjektivo F. es "cladistique"= / > A: cladistics > F: cladisme > H: clad=EDstica > I: cladistica > E: kla= diko > > *klamidio > / mikrobo bakteriatra e virusatra, aktiva ye ula morb= i / > A: chlamydia > F: chlamydia > H: clamidio > I: clamidia > E: klamidio= > > *kloropren.o > / kemiajo / > A: chloroprene > F: chloropr=E8ne > H: c= loropreno > I: cloroprene > E: kloropreno > > *kopepodo > / tre mikra krus= taceo / > A: copepod > F: cop=E9pode [zool.] > H: cop=E9podo > I: copepode = > E: kopepodo > L: Copepoda > > *laminari.o > / bruna algo marala, ye form= o di longa rubandi; kelka sorti esas manjebla / > A: kelp [=B0Laminaria=B0= ] > F: laminaire [algue] > G: Braunalge, Laminaria > H: laminaria > I: lami= naria > E: laminario > L: Laminaria > > *lime.o > / acida frukto, mikra e = verd(et)a, ronda od ovala, richa ye vitamino C (Ne: > limeto =3D Citrus li= metta. Ne: limono =3D Citrus limon) / > A: lime [fruit] > F: lime [fruit; p= as limette] > H: ? {noto: H: lima =3D Ido: limeto} > > I: limetta acida [f= rutto: =B0Citrus aurantifolia=B0] > E: limeo, verda citrono [frukto] > L: C= itrus aurantiifolia; Citrus aurantifolia > > *lime.ier.o > A: lime tree [c= itrus] > F: lime [arbre; pas limettier] > H: ? > I: limetta acida, lumia [a= lberetto: =B0Citrus aurantifolia=B0] > E: limeo, limeujo, verda citrono [ar= bo] > L: Citrus aurantiifolia; Citrus aurantifolia > > *link.o > / parto (= ringo od altra formo) qua juntesas ad apuda parti di kateno; anke > metafo= re: parto di kontinua serio, kauzala o logikala konsequo. Roze,p88 / > A: = link [of a chain; also fig.] > F: cha=EEnon [anneau d'une cha=EEne; aussi f= ig.] > G: Glied [Teil, Kettenglied] > H: eslab=F3n [de una cadena; tambi=E9= n fig.] > E: c^enero; ~ligilo > > *lipoprotein.o > / sorto di proteino / >= A: lipoprotein > F: lipoprot=E9ine > H: lipoprote=EDna > I: lipoproteina >= E: lipoproteino, lipidproteino > > *luminec.ar [ntr] > / emisar lumo ye b= asa temperaturo, exemple fosforece o kemie, kontraste ad > inkandecar / > = A: to be luminescent, luminesce > F: =EAtre luminescent > G: lumineszieren = > H: ser luminescente > E: lumineski > > *mahoni.o > / planto / > A: mahon= ia > F: mahonia > H: mahonia ? > I: maonia [genere Mahonia] > E: mahonio > = L: Mahonia > > *margay.o > / mamifero / > A: margay > F: margay > G: Baumo= zelot, Langschwanzkatze > H: margay > L: Felis wiedii, Leopardus wiedii > = > *marian.o > / planto / > A: milk thistle > F: chardon Marie > G: Mariendi= stel > H: ? > L: Silybum marianum, Carduus marianum > > *nux.o > / sorto d= i nature sika frukto, quale avelano, mandelo, nuco e.c. / > A: nut [botanic= al] > G: Nuss > H: nuez [fruto seco] > E: nukso > > *pedikur.ar [tr] > / s= orgar o flegar la piedi di; analoge a "manikurar"; tale *pedikuristo > e.c= . / > A: to pedicure, give (a) pedicure to > F: donner des soins de p=E9dic= ure =E0 > G: pedik=FCren > H: hacer la pedicura > E: pedikuri > > *permean= co > / qualeso di cirkuito magnetala, simila a konduktiveso elektrala; kon= treajo > di *reluktanco / > A: permeance [elec.] > F: perm=E9ance > H: perm= eabilidad > I: permeanza [fis.] > E: permeanco > > *Prus.a > / pri populo = Baltika (ne Germana!) e lia linguo, simila a Latviana e > Lituaniana, qua p= arolesis til 17ma yarcento / > A: Prussian [Baltic], Old Prussian > F: prus= sien [relatif =E0 la Prusse] > H: ? > E: Prusa > > *Prus.o > / membro di o= lima populo Baltika (ne Germana) / > A: Prussian [member of a Baltic people= ] > F: Prussien [habitant de la Prusse] > H: ? > E: Pruso > > *resembl.ar = [tr] > / Roze,p97. Aspektar simila a, havar aspekti komuna kun. Ex.: El mu= lte > resemblas sua matro; il esas resemblata da nulu / > A: to resemble > = F: ressembler > H: parecerse a > I: somigliare a, rassomigliare a > > *sh= ut.ar [tr] > / Roze,p98. Batar [ulo od ulu] per ulo (dardo, flecho, kuglo, = e.c.) lansita > per armo (arko, kanono, pafilo, e.c.). Diferas de "pafar" = e "lansar". > Roze,p98: mixita; "pafar" restriktesus al shuti bruisoza por= karakterizar > la > bruiso. On povas *shutar per arko, fusilo e.c. "Ne *s= hutez!" / > A: to shoot [hit with a missile discharged from a weapon] > F: = tirer [=E0 l'aide d'une arme] > G: anschie=DFen > H: disparar > > I: colpi= re, abbattere > E: pafi > > *stegosaur.o > / sorto di dinosaurio / > A: st= egosaur > F: st=E9gosaure > G: Stegosaurier > H: estegosaurio > I: stegosau= ro > E: stegosau`ro > > *tiranosaur.o > / dinosaurio / > A: tyrannosaur, t= yrannosaurus > F: tyrannosaure > G: Tyrannosaurus > H: tiranosaurio > I: ti= rannosauro > E: tiranosauro > > *uracilo > / biokemiajo en omna celulo viv= anta (C4H4N2O2) / > A: uracil > F: uracile > H: uracilo > I: uracile > E: u= racilo > > *valut.o > / pekunio di ula lando o banko-sistemo / > A: curren= cy, money [of a particular country or banking system], foreign > exchange = > F: devise(s) [monnaie] > G: Valuta [W=E4hrung], (ausl=E4ndische) W=E4hrun= g > H: divisa, moneda [de un pa=EDs] > I: valuta [moneta circolante] > E: v= aluto [mono] > > *Yakut.a > / pri populo e linguo precipua di *Yakutia, la= ndo di Siberia / > A: Yakut [adj.] > F: iakoute > G: jakutisch > H: ? yakut= o > E: Jakuta > > *Yakut.o > / persono *Yakuta / > A: Yakut [person] > F: = Iakoute > G: Jakute > H: ? yakuto > E: Jakuto > > *yul.o > / celebro tre a= nciena dil solstico vintrala, pose adoptita ed adaptita dal > eklezio kom = Kristnasko(festo). Videz Pesch,p631 / > A: yule [pre-Christian celebration]= > F: No=EBl [r=E9f=E9rence a la f=EAte pr=E9-chr=E9tienne] > G: Jul, Julfe= st > H: ? navidad ... ? > E: Julo > > > {FINO} > > > [Non-text portions= of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1232 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94636 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2004 14:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2004 14:37:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0902.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2004 14:37:10 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-4-126.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.15.153.126]) by mwinf0902.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id A714C18000AE; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:36:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <03e501c448af$81999820$7e990f50@arno> To: , , , Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:40:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.22 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Vivanta vortlisti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Kara idistaro, 1. qual vorti on prizus trovar en omna idal dicionarii ? 2. e lua pronunco ?... Yen ecelenta exemplo..., kande la ligiloj voluntas funcionar ! http://www.languageguide.org/ Amikale Jean Cassignol From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1233 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8877 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2004 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2004 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0901.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.22) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2004 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-4-126.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.15.153.126]) by mwinf0901.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id DF267180018A; Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:49:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <043201c448b1$31ea0c90$7e990f50@arno> To: , , , References: <03e501c448af$81999820$7e990f50@arno> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 16:52:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.22 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Re: [ido] Vivanta vortlisti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Deo mea :-( Ligili, ne ligiloj... http://www.languageguide.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Cassignol To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com ; idolisto@yahoogroups.com ; germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de ; francidol@groupesyahoo.ca Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 4:40 PM Subject: [ido] Vivanta vortlisti Kara idistaro, 1. qual vorti on prizus trovar en omna idal dicionarii ? 2. e lua pronunco ?... Yen ecelenta exemplo..., kande la ligiloj voluntas funcionar ! http://www.languageguide.org/ Amikale Jean Cassignol From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1234 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83476 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2004 05:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2004 05:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0304.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2004 05:12:52 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-3-4.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.14.196.4]) by mwinf0304.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 28B07A803FDA; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 07:12:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00db01c44929$d6965640$04c40e50@arno> To: , , , Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 07:15:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.28 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Europa - Demokratio - ed ?... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.e-d-e.org/ Onu preferus lektar : "EUropo por akordo, IDO por dialogo" e forsan ye venonta dio : "EUropo por akordo, EUropa (= nia linguo) por dialogo"... Amikal saluti Jean Cassignol From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1235 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95226 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2004 13:03:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2004 13:03:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf1004.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2004 13:03:57 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-2-9.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.252.9]) by mwinf1004.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 7E21618001A2; Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:03:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <03d401c4496b$a0f67050$09fc0d50@arno> To: , , , Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2004 15:06:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.21 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: The Names of the Badger [Kolekto de standardi] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean http://www.badger.it/common/badnames.asp Amikale Jean From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1236 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37103 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2004 11:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2004 11:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.102) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2004 11:17:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.179] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2004 11:17:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 11:17:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 8988 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.102 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Urala lingui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara Sro Robert Carnaghan, ed altri Me kolektis en bibliografii e bazala l= ibri di F-U materialo por decidi pri nova vorti. Me savas ek AFGHIR nur An= gla, Germana e Rusa. Hike me devis uzar multa nova vorti kun asterisko. Ca= asteriskizita vorti esas samafoye mea propra propozi. (Voluntez, videz a= nke mesajo 1227.) Urala* lingui (Urala* linguaro*, familio di lingui) A: U= ralic (languages, language group) G: uralische (Sprachen) R: uralyskiye (ya= z=EFki) (=EF =3D "dopa-i") La vorto Uralo* havus tre rara (nula?) uzo. Altr= alatere la montaro =3D Ural. uralistiko* (=3D domeno di linguistiko), ura= listika* (libro) A: Uralistics, Uralic Studies G: Uralistik R: uralistika = Samoyeda* (lingui), Samoyedo* A: Samoyedic (languages), Samoyed G: samojedi= sche (Sprachen) R: samodiyskiye (yaz=EFki) Nganasana* (linguo), Nganasano*= A: Nganasan, Tawgy, Tavgi G: tawgysamojedische (Sprache) R: nganasanskiy (= jaz=EFk) Eneca* (linguo), Eneco* A: Enets, Yenisei Samoyed G: jenisseisamo= jedische (Sprache) R: eneckij (yaz=EFk) Neneca* (linguo), Neneco* A: Nenet= s, Yurak G: juraksamojedische (Sprache) R: neneckiy (yaz=EFk) Selkupa* (li= nguo), Selkupo* A: Selkup, Ostyak Samoyed G: selkupische, ostjak-samojedisc= he (Sprache) R: selykupskiy (yaz=EFk) Kamasa* (linguo), Kamaso* A: Kamas, = Kamassian G: kamassische (Sprache) R: kamasinskiy (yaz=EFk) Matora* (lingu= o), Matoro* A: Mator (language) G: matorische (Sprache) R: matorskij (yaz= =EFk) La propozita nomi di Samoyeda* lingui e populi repozas sua nomi nac= ionala, pro ke me imaginas ke vi unesmafoye saveskis pri li. Ma inverse, l= a propozita nomi di Fena-Ugra* lingui repozas internaciona nomi, qui povas= trovesas en granda enciklopii. Por esar logika, ne uzez la vorto "Madyara= " en cienco. Fena-Ugra* (brancho, lingui, populi), Feno-Ugro* (ex. Me esas= Feno-Ugro*.) A: Finno-Ugric (languages, peoples), Finno-Ugrian, Fenno-Ugr= ic (language studies) G: finnisch-ugrische, finnougrische (Sprachen, V=F6l= ker) R: finno-ugorskiye (yaz=EFki) F: finno-ougrienne Latina: ? Fenno-Ugric= a Espo: finnougra L' inversa usado U...-F... esas nuntempe tre rara. Por ex= emplo, la maxim granda internaciona kunsido di fena-ugristi* nomesas FU 1= , FU 2 e.c. Sequanta esas FU 12 en Marilando* ye 2005. Chefa edituri en Fi= nlando nomesas (F:) M=E9moires de la Soci=E9t=E9 Finno-Ougrienne e (G:) Fi= nnisch-ugrische Forschungen, en Germania: Finnisch-ugrische Mitteilungen. = fena-ugristiko* (=3D domeno di linguistiko), fena-ugristika* (libro) A: Fi= nno-Ugristics G: Finnougristik, Fennougristik, finnisch-ugrische Sprachwis= senschaft R: finno-ugrovedeniya Do serchisto en fena-ugristiko* esas fena-u= gristo*. Ugra* (grupo, lingui), Ugro* (=3D Hungariano od Ostyako* o Vogul= o*) A: Ugric (languages) G: ugrische (Sprachen) R: ugorskiye (yaz=EFki) Hu= ngariana (linguo), Hungariano, (NE Madyara, Madyaro!) A: Hungarian (languag= e) G: ungarische (Sprache) R: vengerskiy (yaz=EFk) F: hongrois Hungariana: = Magyar (lektez: Madyar) Ob-Ugra* (subgrupo, lingui), Ob-Ugro* (=3D Ostyako= * o Vogulo*) A: Ob-Ugrian, Ob-Ugric (languages) G: obugrische (Sprachen) R:= obsko-ugorskiye (yaz=EFki) Ob esas grandega fluvio en Sibiria. Ostyaka* (= linguo), Ostyako* A: Khant, Ostyak (language) G: ostjakische (Sprache) R: h= ant=EFyskiy (yaz=EFk) Vogula* (linguo), Vogulo* A: Mansi, Vogul (language)= G: wogulische (Sprache) R: mansiyskiy yaz=EFk Fena-Perma* (brancho, lingu= i) A: Permian-Finnic (languages), Finno-Permian (period) G: finnisch-permis= che (Sprachen) R: finsko-permskiye, finno-permskiye (yaz=EFki) La vorto Fen= a-Permo* havus tre rara uzo. Perma*, Perma-Fena* (grupo, lingui), Permo*, = Perma-Feno* A: Permic, Permian, Permian-Finnic (languages) G: permische (Sp= rachen) R: permskiye (yaz=EFki) Ziryena* (linguo), Ziryeno* A: Komi, Zyrya= n, Ziryene (language) G: syrj=E4nische, komi-syrj=E4nische (Sprache) R: kom= i, komi-z=EFryanskiy (jaz=EFk) Permyaka*, Komi-Permyaka* (linguo o dialekt= o), (Komi-)Permyako* A: Permyak, Komi-Permyak G: komi-permjakische R: komi= -permyacskiy Votyaka* (linguo), Votyako* A: Udmurt, Votyak (language) G: w= otjakische (Sprache) R: udmurtskiy (yaz=EFk) Fena-Volga* (brancho, lingui)= (Fena-Volgala*?) A: Finno-Volgaic, Volga-Finnic (languages) G: finnischwol= gaische (Sprachen) R: finsko-voljskiye, finno-voljskiye, pribaltiysko-finsk= o-voljskoye (yaz=EFki), voljsko-finskoye (yedinstvo) La vorto Fena-Volgo* = havus tre rara uzo. Volga*, Volga-Fena* (grupo, lingui) (Volgala*?) A: Vol= gaic (languages, Finno-ugrians), Volga-Finnic G: wolgaische (Sprachen) R: v= oljsko-finskiye, voljsiye (yaz=EFki) La vorto Volgo* esus neuzebla e nebezo= nita. Altralatere la fluvio =3D Volga. En la Rusa "Voljsko-finskiye" uzes= as pro to, ke alonge fluvio Volga habitas anke "Voljsko-tyurskiye" populi,= qui parolas en lingui parenta dil Turka. "Voljskiye jaz=EFki" signifikas = e "finskye" e "tyurskiye" lingui alonge Volga. En Ruso ne uzesabis nomi "= ostyakskiy, vogulskiy, votyakskiy, z=EFryanskiy, cheremisskiy" (e.c.) pos = la revoluciono en 1917. Se nun irga Rusa uzas ica vorti dum parolo kun hom= i ek ti mikra populi, ta Rusa esas tre desamikala. Cheremisa* (linguo), C= heremiso* A: Cheremis, Mari (language) G: tscheremissische, marische (Sprac= he) R: mariyskiy (yaz=EFk) F: tch=E9r=E9misse, mari Mordva* (linguo), Mord= vo*, Mordvano* A: Mordvin (language) G: mordwinische (Sprache) R: mordovski= y (yaz=EFk), mordovskiye (yaz=EFki) La linguo konsistas ek du lingui, Erzya= * e Moksha*. Erzya* (linguo), Erzyo*, Erzyano* A: Erza Mordvin (language),= Erza G: erza-mordwinische, ers=E4mordwinische (Sprache) R: erzyanskiy, erz= ya-mordovskiy (yaz=EFk) Moksha* (linguo), Moksho*, Mokshano* A: Moksha Mor= dvin (language), Moksha G: mokscha-mordwinische, mokschamordwinische (Sprac= he) R: mokshanskiy, moksha-mordovskiy (yaz=EFk) Fena-Lapa* (brancho) A: Ba= ltic-Finnic-Sami G: ostseefinnisch-samische, ostseefinnisch-lappische R: pr= ibaltiysko-finskiye i saamskiye (yaz=EFki) La vorto Feno-Lapo* esus nebezon= ita. Lapa* (grupo, lingui) A: Sami, Lapp (language), Lappish G: lappische,= samische (Sprachen) R: saamskiye (yaz=EFki) Lapa*: sabme, saami (e.c.) La = vorto Lapa* esus konocata internacione plu bone kam Samika* (e Fena-Samika= *). Nomi di Lapa* lingui relatas la loki, qui la parolanti habitas: Lapa* = di peninsulo Kola (A: the Kola Lapp, G: Kolalappische, R: kolyskiye saami)= Lapa* di Inari (G: Inarilappische) Lapa* di Norvegia (A: Norwegian Lappish= ) Lapa* di Suedia (G: Schwedischlappische) ED CETERE multa mikra lingui (ne= dialekti!) Laplandano, Lapo* A: Lapp G: Lappe R: saam, laplandec F: lapon= En Laplando lojas Norvegiani, Suediani, Rusi, Fini* e Lapi*, do Laplandan= a lingui esas Norvegiana, Suediana, Rusa, Fina* e Lapa*. Baltiko-Fena* (g= rupo, lingui), Baltiko-Feno* A: Baltic-Finnic, Balto-Finnic, Finnic (langua= ges) G: ostseefinnische (Sprachen) R: Pribaltiysko-finskiye (yaz=EFki) F: (= les contacts des) langues finnoises baltiques (avec X) Estoniana (linguo),= Estoniano A: Estonian (language) G: estnische (Sprache) R: estonskiy (yaz= =EFk) Kareliana* (linguo), Kareliano* A: Karelian (language) G: karelische= (Sprache) R: karelyskiy yaz=EFk F: car=E9lien Vepsiana* (linguo), Vepsian= o* A: Vepsian, Wepsian (language), Veps G: wepsische (Sprache) R: vepsskiy = (yaz=EFk) F: vepse Votiana* (linguo), Votiano* A: Votian, Votic (language= ), Vote G: wotische (Sprache) R: vodskiy (yaz=EFk) F: vote Livoniana* (lin= guo), Livoniano* A: Livonian (language) G: livische (Sprache) R: livskiy (y= az=EFk) Ingriana* (linguo o dialekto), Ingriano* A: Ingrian (dialekt) G: I= ngrische (Dialekte) R: ijorskiy (yaz=EFk) F: ingrien fenistiko* (=3D domen= o di linguistiko), fenistika* (libro) A: Fennistic G: Fennistik R: issledov= aniye finskogo yaz=EFka Latina: ? fennistica Serchisto en fenistiko* esas f= enisto*. Finlandana, Fina* (linguo) A: Finnish (language) G: finnische (Sp= rache) R: finskiy (yaz=EFk) F: finnois Latina: ? Fennica Finlandano, Fino*= A: Finn G: Finne R: finn Do hike diferigesas vorti Fena* e Fina*. Fena* e= sus termino en cienco, e Fina* esus vorto por exter-ciencal uzo. La Fena* = lingui esus lingui Fena-Perma*, Fena-Volga*, Fena-Lapa*, Baltiko-Fena*. I= ca lingui ed Ugra* lingui esus la Fena-Ugra* lingui. Fena-Ugra* lingui e S= amoyeda* lingui esus l' Urala* lingui (Urala* linguaro*). Por la vorto Fen= o* me ne trovas ula uzo (komparez Ugro*). Yen listo dil vorti: Baltiko-Fe= na, -o Cheremisa, -o Eneca, -o Erzya, -o Erzyano =3D Erzyo Estoniana, -o Fe= na-Lapa Fena-Perma, -o Fena-Ugra, Feno-Ugro fena-ugristika, -o fena-ugristo= Fena-Volga fenista, -o fenistika, -o Fina, -o =3D Finlandana, -o Hungaria= na, -o Ingriana, -o Kareliana, -o Komi-Permyaka, -o Lapa, -o =3D Laplandana= , -o Livoniana, -o Matora, -o Moksha, -o Mokshano =3D Moksho Mordva, -o Mor= dvano =3D Mordvo Neneca, -o Nganasana, -o Ob-Ugra, -o Ostyaka, -o Perma, -o= Perma-Fena, -o Permyaka, -o =3D Komi-Permyaka, -o Samoyeda, -o Selkupa, -o= Ugra, -o Urala, -o uralistika, -o Vepsiana, -o Vogula, -o Volga =3D Volga-= Fena Votiana, -o Votyaka, -o Ziryena, -o Kun saluti Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1237 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63911 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2004 09:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2004 09:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1aa.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.3) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2004 09:39:10 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i559d89A008042 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 5 Jun 2004 05:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 05:37:05 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200406050537_MC3-1-83DC-AD63@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.3 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Urala lingui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Danko, Arto Moisio, pro vua laboro e propozi. Kad altri povas insertar la = Franca, Hispana ed Italiana tradukuri? Ula questioni. 1. Pro quo "Feno" vi= ce "Fino" ciencale? 2. Ka la vorto "Madyara" en Ido forsan esas por disting= ar Madyari de altra Hungariani, e la Madyara linguo de altra lingui di Hung= aria, o [od anke] forsan pro ke Madyari existis ante existo di Hungaria (do= ne povis lore esar Hungariani)? Se yes, takaze, quale "ciencale" on dicas = "Madyara" e "Madyari"? 3. Ni bezonas forsan *Ural ed *Urali geografie. Ka, = vice *Urala, *Uralika esus plu klara, e plu proxima a la lingui AGR (Italia= na anke havas "uralico"; me ne trovas Franca e Hispana)? 4. Quon signifikas= "(=EF =3D "dopa-i")" en la Rusa tradukuro di *Urala? Parenteze, on dicas = "Rusa" o "la Rusa (linguo)" , e "Ruso" por persono. Robert. _________ >K= ara Sro Robert Carnaghan, ed altri Me kolektis en bibliografii e bazala li= bri di F-U materialo por decidi pri nova vorti. Me savas ek AFGHIR nur Ang= la, Germana e Rusa. Hike me devis uzar multa nova vorti kun asterisko. Ca = asteriskizita vorti esas samafoye mea propra propozi. (Voluntez, videz an= ke mesajo 1227.) Urala* lingui (Urala* linguaro*, familio di lingui) A: Ur= alic (languages, language group) G: uralische (Sprachen) R: uralyskiye (yaz= =EFki) (=EF =3D "dopa-i") La vorto Uralo* havus tre rara (nula?) uzo. Altra= latere la montaro =3D Ural. uralistiko* (=3D domeno di linguistiko), ural= istika* (libro) A: Uralistics, Uralic Studies G: Uralistik R: uralistika< = [e tale pluse, ne kopiita hike] . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1238 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2551 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2004 20:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2004 20:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2004 20:39:26 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ab.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i56KdKvb007521 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 16:35:40 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200406061636_MC3-1-83FF-CD71@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.132 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Ankore Hispana tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Multa danki a Fernando Tej=F3n ed Adri=E1n Pastrana pro via helpo pri Hispa= na tradukuri. Yen nova listo. Ne esas necesa respondar rapide - suficus re= spondo, exemple, dum venonta semani. Pose me expektas ne havar nova listo p= or vi tante balde. Robert. A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispa= na; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto; L=3Dlatina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [n= tr]=3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta Vorti inter kramponi [tale], od = inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos kursive *abomas.o / quaresma fako di = stomako di rumifero; videz *omaso / A: abomasum F: abomasum H: ? I: abomaso= , caglio E: abomaso *aquavit.o / drinkajo multe alkoholoza, aromatoza o sp= icoza / A: aquavit, akvavit F: aquavit, akvavit G: Aquavit H: ? *brasik.o = / planto di kategorio qua inkluzas kaulo, napo e.c. / A: brassica F: brassi= cac=E9e G: [Pl.] Kohlpflanzen H: ? col /kaulo =3D col, do quale indikar la = senco hike?/ I: cappuccio, cavolo E: brasiko L: Brassica *elaped.o / serpe= nto venenoza di familio "Elapidae" (inkluzas *kobro ed *elapo) / A: elapid = F: =E9lapid=E9 H: ? I: elapide E: elapedo L: Elapidae *evanec.ar [ntr] / d= esaparar pro efemereso. Roze,p80: "beleso evanecas, vertuo permanas. Evanec= anta kozi =3D D verg=E4ngliche Dinge; evaneceso =3D Verg=E4nglichkeit" =3D = H evanescencia, I evanescenza / A: to evanesce, fade away F: dispara=EEtre = G: dahinschwinden, vergehen H: ? ser evanescente, fugaz, ef=EDmero I: svani= re, sparire; [-anta] evanescente E: ~malaperi *exuber.ar [ntr] / Roze,p80:= "exuberanta =3D D =FCppig, E exuberant, F exub=E9rant" / A: to be exuberan= t, abound in high spirits, exuberate F: =EAtre exub=E9rant, exprimer un d= =E9bordement de vie G: =FCppig sein H: ? ser euf=F3rico; ? ser exuberante I= : essere pieno di vitalit=E0, pieno di brio, esuberante E: esti gajanima, e= sti vigle g^oja L: exuberare *fenikur.o / ucelo - nomo ciencala apud "red-= kaudo" / A: redstart [bird of the genus =B0Phoenicurus=B0] F: rouge-queue [= oiseau - genre Phoenicurus] G: Rotschwanz H: ? colirrojo real E: fenikuro L= : Phoenicurus *filtrum.o / kavajo inter nazo e supera labio / A: philtrum = H: ? I: filtro [anat.] E: filtrumo *frap.o-fantom.o? poltergost.o? / spiri= to qua, supozate, movas kozi e.c. / A: poltergeist F: esprit frappeur G: Po= ltergeist, Klopfgeist H: ? poltergeist, ? duende I: poltergeist *genez.ar = [ntr] / Roze,p82: "Ni havas la radiko genez-o =3D Genesis, Entstehung, Herk= unft, qua restos anke pos la acepto di verbal koncepto di ta radiko. La Ita= liana linguo es genezinta del Latina". Segun Pesch "genezo" =3D "produktado= di la enti organizita". Segun Dyer "genezo" havas senci biblala, geometria= la e generala / A: to originate, arise F: na=EEtre, prendre naissance G: en= tstehen, hervorgehen H: ? originarse, nacer E: estig^i, formig^i, origini = *heterolog.a / termino patologiala / A: heterologous F: h=E9t=E9rologue G: = heterolog H: ?? heter=F3logo I: eterologo *hipokamp.o ? / (1) mar-animalo = mitologiala; (2) parto di cerebro; (3) fisho kavalatra / A: hippocampus [my= th.; anat.; fish: sea-horse] H: ? hipocampo [mit.; anat.]; ? E: hipokampo L= : Hippocampus *hirax.o ? / ungozo di familio "Procaviidae" e sorto "Hyraco= idea". De Greka "hurax" / A: hyrax H: ? dam=E1n I: iracoide E: hirako, prok= avio L: Procaviidae?. Procavia? *Kabil.a / pri populo montala di norda Alj= eria e lia linguo / A: Kabyle [adj.] F: kabyle H: ? {la tribuo esas "cabila= "} E: Kabila *kava.o / (1) planto Polineziana e (2) drinko facita de olua = radiko / A: kava [plant; drink] F: kawa, kava H: ? E: kavao L: Piper methys= ticum {O} *klorit.o / salo di *klorit-acido; formo analoga kun "sulfito"; = distingenda de mineralo ofte kun sama nomo! / A: chlorite [any salt of chlo= rous acid] F: chlorite G: Chlorit [Salz] H: ? I: clorito [chim.] E: klorito= [salo de klorita acido] *klostridi.o / sorto di bakterio / A: clostridium= F: clostridium H: ? I: clostridio E: klostridio L: Clostridium *kolembol.= o / insekto senala / A: collembolan F: collembole H: ? I: collembolo E: kol= embolo L: Collembola *kolubride.o o kolubred.o / serpento-familiano / A: c= olubrid (snake) [family =B0Colubridae=B0] F: colubrid=E9 H: ? I: colubride = E: kolubredo L: Colubridae *kolug.o?, galeopitek.o? / flugiva arborala mam= ifero Aziana di familio "Cynocephalidae" (antee "Galeopithecidae") / A: fly= ing lemur, colugo F: gal=E9opith=E8que, =E9cureuil volant H: ? I: scolattol= o volante E: galeopiteko L: Cynocephalidae *krizolit.o / mineralo, sorto d= i *olivino / A: chrysolite F: chrysolite, chrysolithe H: ? I: crisolito E: = krizolito *Laurazi.a / olima kontinentego segun teorio / A: Laurasia F: La= urasie H: ? E: Lau`razio *lime.o / acida frukto, mikra e verd(et)a, ronda = od ovala, richa ye vitamino C (Ne: limeto =3D Citrus limetta. Ne: limono = =3D Citrus limon) / A: lime [fruit] F: lime [fruit; pas limette] H: ?? {not= o: H: lima =3D Ido: limeto} I: limetta acida [frutto: =B0Citrus aurantifoli= a=B0] E: limeo, verda citrono [frukto] L: Citrus aurantiifolia; Citrus aura= ntifolia *lime.ier.o / arboro / A: lime tree [citrus] F: lime [arbre; pas = limettier] H: ?? I: limetta acida, lumia [alberetto: =B0Citrus aurantifolia= =B0] E: limeo, limeujo, verda citrono [arbo] L: Citrus aurantiifolia; Citru= s aurantifolia *linari.o / planto kun flava flori, simila a muzel-floro / = A: toadflax F: linaire G: Leinkraut H: ? linaria I: linaria, linaiola E: li= nario L: Linaria *lutreol.o ? / mamifero, Mustela lutreola/intreola, simil= a a lutro, vizelo, e *vizono (*vizono =3D Mustela vison) / A: European mink= F: vison d'Europe H: ? E: lutreolo, Eu`ropa vizono L: ? Mustela lutreola. = Mustela intreola {S} *magistr.o / persono kun grado universitatala plu alt= a kam ordinara ma min alta kam doktoreso. Ex.: magisto di arto, m. di cienc= o / A: master [graduate holding a master's degree] F: titulaire d'une ma=EE= trise, titulaire d'un mast=E8re [titre universitaire] G: Magister [Inhaber = des Grades eines Magisters] H: ? master, ? m=E1ster, mag=EDster [Chile, Col= ombia] E: magistro *mahoni.o / planto / A: mahonia F: mahonia H: ?? mahoni= a I: maonia [genere Mahonia] E: mahonio L: Mahonia *marian.o / planto / A:= milk thistle F: chardon Marie G: Mariendistel H: ?? L: Silybum marianum, C= arduus marianum *megakiropter.o / kiroptero, ofte fruktivora / A: megachir= opteran, ~fruit-eating bat, ~fruit bat F: megachiropt=E8re H: ? murci=E9lag= o I: megachirottero E: ~pteropo L: Megachiroptera *megapter.o / sorto di b= aleno kun giboza dorso / A: humpback whale F: baleine =E0 bosse, jubarte, m= =E9gapt=E8re H: ? L: Megaptera novaeangliae {NAS} *melior.ar [tr] / Roze,p= 89: Vice la tilnuna "plu-bon-ig-ar". Uzebla anke figurale. Melioriva =3D H.= meliorativo. Desmeliorar =3D I. peggiorare, F. empirer, aggraver. Ka plu b= one tr/ntr? / A: to ameliorate, meliorate, improve, make better F: am=E9lio= rer, rendre meilleur H: mejorar [...?] I: migliorare [rendere migliore] *m= eteorit.o / aerolito [stonoza] o *siderito [metaloza] o *siderolito; irga k= ozo kosmala falinta a Tero / A: meteorite F: m=E9t=E9orite H: ?? meteorito = {tamen sinonimo esas "aerolito"!} E: meteorito *mug.o / mikra pino montala= Europana / A: mugo pine F: pin mugo G: Latsche H: ? I: mugo E: monta pino = L: Pinus mugo *myelopati.o / morbo di myelo / A: myelopathy F: my=E9lopath= ie H: ? I: mielopatia E: mjelopatio *nik.ar [ntr] / mov(et)ar la kapo por = donar signo di asento, saluto, direciono, e.c. Roze,p91: *nutar (L nuto) o = *nikar (D nicken, Su. nicka) / A: to nod [indicate by head movement] F: fai= re un signe de la t=EAte G: nicken [nicht: schlafen] H: ? con la cabeza *notonekt.o / insekt= o, qua natas sur sua dorso / A: notonecta, ~water-boatman F: notonecte H: ?= I: notonetta E: notonekto, dorsnag^a cimo L: Notonecta *nutric.o / Roze,p= 91: muliero alaktanta *bebeo, qua ne es elua. Del L nutrix / A: wet-nurse, = nutrice F: m=E8re nourrici=E8re, nourrice qui allaite un enfant d'une autre= H: ? nodriza, ama de cr=EDa E: suc^igistino, mamnutristino *obvi.a / faci= le intelektebla. "Obvia" esas mentala e racionala; "evidenta" esus sensala.= "Esas evidenta ke la kastelo esas granda; esas obvia ke la probableso di k= apto esas mikra". Propozajo en Progreso 328,p10 (ma "facile komprenebla") /= A: obvious, evident [easy to understand] H: obvio [...?] *Odise / rejulo = mitala di *Itaka, anke nomata *Ulise / A: Odysseus G: Odysseus H: ? I: Odis= seo E: Odiseo *osteoartrit.o / inflamado dil artiki, kun degenero di karti= lago / A: osteoarthritis, degenerative joint disease F: ost=E9oarthrite G: = Arthrose H: ? I: osteoartrite *palinologi.o / cienco di poleni e spori / A= : palynology F: palynologie G: Palynologie H: ? I: palinologia *paludin.o = / sorto di limako di lageti / A: paludina [type of pond snail] F: paludine = H: ? I: paludina L: Paludina *Pange.a / olima sola kontinento qua segun te= orio dividesis a *Gondwana e *Laurazia / A: Pangaea, Pangea F: Pang=E9e H: = ? E: Pangeo *pelt.ar [tr] / atakar o molestar ulu (od ulo) per kozo o kozi= jetata. Roze,p93: atakar, asaltar o molestar ulu per ulo jetita sur lu. "L= a skolani peltis l'unu l'altru per nivo-buli". Dyer ofras "bombardar" ma se= gun Pesch to esas "asaltar per la lanso di bombi"! Irgakaze, ni bezonas pov= ar distingar inter "peltar la vilajani" e "bombardar la vilajani"! / A: to = pelt [throw things at] F: bombarder [lancer des projectiles sur] G: bewerfe= n [etwas auf jemanden, auf etwas werfen] H: ? arrojar a, tirar a [... ... .= ..?] *pentatom.o / insekto, sorto di *heteroptero / A: pentatomid (bug), ~= shieldbug, ~stink-bug F: pentatome, punaise des bois H: ? E: pentatomo L: P= entatoma *renin.o / enzimo o hormono renala. Diferas de *kimozino (enzimo = en *renito) / A: renin F: r=E9nine G: Renin H: ? I: renina *sfaler.a / gli= tiganta, glitigiva. Roze,p98: Gr. Havanta surfaco tante glata, humida edc.,= ke la korpo ne havas stabileso sur ol; tale *sfalereso, *ne-sfalera / A: s= lippery [that causes slipping] F: glissant H: ? resbaladizo, escurridizo E:= glitiga *stokastik.o / studio matematikala di eventi quaze hazardala / A:= stochastics F: stochastique [n.] G: Stochastik H: ? *treponem.o / sorto (= sorti) di bakterio, kauzo di sifiliso e.c. / A: treponema, treponeme F: tr= =E9pon=E8me H: ? I: treponema E: treponemo L: Treponema *ustul.ar [t/n] / = Roze,p104: del L ustulo. Ustular la linjo. Ne sama kam "bruletar". Tamen "t= /n" vice nur transitiva quale en Roze / A: to singe, scorch F: roussir [br= =FBler superficiellement] H: ? chamuscar, quemar, abrasar [con lej=EDa] E: = ~bruletigi, surfacbruligi; ~bruleti, surfacbruli *vesel.o / Roze,p105: kav= a kontenilo, precipue por liquidaji, quale botelo, glaso, kaldrono, krucho,= marmito, vazo edc. "Irga *veselo suficus" / A: vessel [hollow container or= receptacle for a liquid etc.] F: vaisseau [r=E9cipient pour les liquides],= vase [r=E9cipient] H: ? vasija, recipiente *Yakut.a / pri populo e linguo= precipua di *Yakutia, lando di Siberia / A: Yakut [adj.] F: iakoute G: jak= utisch H: ?? yakuto E: Jakuta *Yakut.o / persono *Yakuta / A: Yakut [perso= n] F: Iakoute G: Jakute H: ?? yakuto E: Jakuto [FINO] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1239 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70230 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2004 09:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2004 09:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0303.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.28) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2004 09:20:03 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-1-223.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.11.219.223]) by mwinf0303.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 8A3E9500078E; Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:19:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <02b801c44d3a$3351b050$dfdb0b50@arno> To: , , , Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:23:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.28 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Musiko alfabete (Ido -> Franca) - Litero A X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara samideani, dum la voyajo di Venero-Venuso, me facis "venusala" labore= to. Yen propozi pri la litero A. Amikale Jean Cassignol A la absolut.a= son.sent.o oreille absolue adadj.e ? adagio (adverbe) adadj.o ? adagio = (nom) akompan.ar accompagner (un autre musicien) akord.ar =EAtre accord= =E9 (musicien, instrument) akordeon.o accord=E9on akord.esk.ar s'accorder= (musiciens qui mettent leurs instruments au m=EAme diapason) akord.ig.ar = accorder (un instrument) akord.ig.il.o cl=E9 d'accord (piano, clavecin...)= akord.ig.ist.o accordeur, euse akord.o accord (action de jouer un accord= ) akord.ur.o accord (r=E9sultat jou=E9 ou not=E9) akustik.o acoustique ak= ut.a aigu alegr.e allegro (adverbe) alegr.et.e allegretto (adverbe) aleg= r.et.o allegretto (nom) alegr.o allegro (nom) alt.a haut alt.es.o haute= ur alt.ist.o joueur,euse d'alto, altiste alt.o (ou: alt.o-violin.o) alto = (instrument) alt.o alto (chanteur) alt.o (ou: alt.o-voc.o) alto (voix) an= dant.e andante (adverbe) andant.o andante (nom) apodjatur.o ? appogiatur= e aranj.ar ? arranger, adapter aranj.ur.o ? arrangement, adaptation ari.o = air, aria ark.et.o archet (violon, etc.) ark.et.o-strok.o coup d'archet = arpej.ar arp=E9ger arpej.o arp=E8ge (action d'arp=E9ger) arpej.ur.o arp= =E8ge (r=E9sultat jou=E9 ou not=E9) art.ist.o artiste art.o art [Non-tex= t portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1240 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94691 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2004 11:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2004 11:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2004 11:56:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.250] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2004 11:56:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 11:55:59 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3055 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.83 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Urala lingui (2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara Sro Robert Carnaghan, ed altri Yen mea respondi. Me deziras ke me ne = produktas vana problemi kun mea nepreciza uzo di Ido. Se me skribas obskur= e, voluntez, probez imaginar. Mea intenci por Ido esas bona. 1. fena vc f= ina Me trovas uzebla diferigar "fena" e "fina". "Fena" relatus tota grupo = FU-lingua e "fina" relatus nur linguo di Finlandani (e lando di Finlando).= Esas vera ke en AFGHIR es vorti kun i vice proziti fena-ugr...* ed litero= e esas nur en Latina. Anke en Finlandana ni havas nur un vorto por nocion= i "fena" e "fina", e lo produktas ultempe deskompreno negranda e negrava.= Se vu trovas nur un formo kom maxim bona, ol esez "fina", pro ke ni mustu= s chanjar Finlando en "Fenlando". 2. Hungariani vc Madyari Ni mustas nome= sas lingui e populi segun nuna situaciono. La populo qua ekiris est-suda r= egiono di Ural ed eniris Pannonia multa yarcenti pose konsistis ek multa t= ribui. Nur un ek li esis Madyari (o Modyori). Do la populo migrinta en est= a Europa esis ancestri di nuna Hungariani, ne nur Madyari, e li ne parolis= nuna Madyara linguo ma ula Ugra o Proto-Hungariana linguo. Esas vera ke = nun omna Hungarianin on povas nomizar kom Madyari. Analoga historio ni hav= as en Finlando. Segun historisti, 2000 yari ante nun en prezenta Finlando = esis tri precipua tribui (o regioni qui la tribui habitis) e nur un donis = la nomo por nuna linguo e lando ("Suomi"). Historio esas sempre historio d= i vinkinti. Plusa kozi analoga: En USA granda majoritato ek populo havas = ancestri en Europa. Tamen ni ne nomizas Usani "Irlandani, Italiani, Angli= , Germani" e.c. Anke la nomo di Suedia repozas la nomo di regiono Svealand= o. E regiono di Latinium donis nomo por linguo di omna Romani. La linguin= e populin ni mustas nomizar segun prezenta situaciono. Altrakaze ni musta= s serchar "vera" nomi en obskura historio. Me pensas ke on nomizus omna F= U-populi segun nomi qui esas internacione konocata e trovebla en granda en= ciklopedii AFGHI-linguala. L' uzado en Rusa esas ecepto qua havas expliko= en historio di nacionala politiko di Sovjet-Uniono. L' usado di vorti, qu= i repozas vorti kam Suomi, Mari, Komi e.c., esas polita por FU-populani ma= lo esus kontre l' ideo uzar AFGHIR-lingui kom bazo. Por me, ol ne esas jo= yiginta ma me komprenas l' ideo. 3. Urala vc Uralika Me pensas ke sufixo = -ik oficale produktas nur nomi di maladii, por ex. "kord-ik-a", "pest-ik-a"= . Altrakaze esas vorti kam "ekonom-ik-o", "elektron-ik-o", "skept-ik-o", e= .c. Ka vorto "uraliko" aptesus a vorto-grupo di "ekonomiko"? Me ne savas, = ka tala sufixo esas aceptita kom oficala sufixo di Ido o kad -ik esas vor= to-parto importinta "celite" aden Ido en nemulta vorti. 4. Quon signifikas= "=EF =3D dopa-i"? Lu qua savas Rusa, savas quala esas la 28ma litero en Ru= sa alfabeto (o 5ma litero de fino). Me inventis nomizar ol en Ido "dopa-i= " segun Finlandana uzado e uzis litero i kun tremo por olu. Nomizata liter= o uzesas en Rusa en la vorto "linguo" e me transskribis ol "ya-z-=EF-k". C= a kozo ne esas signifikanta nun. Arto Moisio, Turku From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1241 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55027 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 14:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2004 14:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0902.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2004 14:52:24 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-1-122.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.11.219.122]) by mwinf0902.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 391E918001D8; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:52:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <03e101c44e31$cc94e2d0$7adb0b50@arno> To: , , , Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:55:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.22 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Musiko alfabete (Ido -> Franca) - kompletigita Litero A + Literi B-C X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bon jorno, danko, Hans e Richard [idolisto], pri via komplimenti ! Kordia= l saluti Jean C. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > =3D plura f= ormi propozita da me por vorto. A-bemol.o la b=E9mol A-bequadr.o la b= =E9carre A-diez.o la di=E8se > A-du.bemol.o ? la double b=E9mol > A-du.di= ez.o ? la double di=E8se > A-du.opl.a.bemol.o ? la double b=E9mol > A-du.= opl.a.diez.o ? la double di=E8se > alb.o-koncert.o ? aubade anakruz.o ? = anacrouse antifon.ar.o antiphonaire antifon.o antienne ariet.o ariette >= aubad.o ? aubade aulos.o ? aulos B si B-bemol.o si b=E9mol B-bequadr.= o si b=E9carre B-diez.o si di=E8se > B-du.bemol.o ? si double b=E9mol > = B-du.diez.o ? si double di=E8se > B-du.opl.a.bemol.o ? si double b=E9mol = > B-du.opl.a.diez.o ? si double di=E8se bagatel.o ? bagatelle (pi=E8ce po= ur clavier) bakanal.o bacchanale (danses et chants en l'honneur de Bacchus= ) balad.o ballade (pi=E8ce musicale) > balalaik.o ? balala=EFka (instrume= nt) > balalayk.o ? balala=EFka (instrument) balet.o ballet bal.o bal > ba= ndj.o ? banjo band.o bande, groupe > bandone.o ? bandon=E9on (petit acco= rd=E9on) > bandoneon.o ? bandon=E9on (petit accord=E9on) > banj.o ? banjo= bariton.o baryton (chanteur) bariton.o (ou: bariton.o-voc.o) baryton (vo= ix) barkarol.o barcarolle barok.al.a baroque (adjectif) Barok.o (le) Baro= que bas.a bas bas.a.dans.o ? basse danse, bassadanza bas.flut.o fl=FBte = basse bas.ist.o joueur,euse professionnel(le) de basse (contrebasse, guita= re, etc.), bassiste bas.o basse (chanteur) bas.o (ou: bas.o-voc.o) bass= e (voix) bason.o basson fran=E7ais bek.flut.er.o ? (un, une) fl=FBtiste = =E0 bec amateur bek.flut.ist.o ? fl=FBtiste =E0 bec professionnel(le) bek.= flut.o ? fl=FBte =E0 bec bek.o bec (clarinette, saxophone, etc.) bemol.o = b=E9mol bequadr.o b=E9carre blus.o ? blues bok.harmonik.o harmonica bol= er.o bol=E9ro bordun.o ? bourdon (jeu d'orgue, etc.) bosanov.o ? bossa-n= ova boston.o boston bravur-ari.o air de bravoure (morceau brillant pour c= hanteur) bugl.o bugle (instrument) > bukcen.o ? buccin (instrument) > buk= sen.o ? buccin (instrument) bure.o ? bourr=E9e (danse) C do, ut C-bemo= l.o do b=E9mol C-bequadr.o do b=E9carre C-diez.o do di=E8se > C-du.bemol= .o ? do double b=E9mol > C-du.diez.o ? do double di=E8se > C-du.opl.a.bem= ol.o ? do double b=E9mol > C-du.opl.a.diez.o ? do double di=E8se chakon.o= ? chaconne chas.korn.o cor de chasse chef.puls.o temps fort (mesure) ci= mbal.o cymbale citar.ist.o joueur,euse professionnel(le) de cithare, cith= ariste citar.o cithare =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [Non-text portions= of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1242 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29938 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 21:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2004 21:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1aj.mx.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.25) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2004 21:07:31 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aj.mx.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i59L7BKP016724 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:04:27 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200406091705_MC3-1-8469-8591@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.25 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Germana tradukuri bezonata (A-G) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Yen posibla nova vorti Idala (A - G) por qui mankas a me Germana tradukuri.= Qua povas helpar, adminime parte? Danko. Robert. A=3Dangla; F=3Dfran= ca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto; L=3Dla= tina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]=3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta Vorti = inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos kursive *ab= omas.o [zool.] / quaresma fako di stomako di rumifero; videz *omaso / A: ab= omasum F: abomasum G: ? I: abomaso, caglio E: abomaso [zool] *adax.o [mami= f.] / animalo bovatra, antilopo di Sahara / A: addax F: addax G: ? H: adax = I: addax L: Addax (nasomaculatus) *alce.o [pl.] / planto "Alcea" sub "Malv= aceae". Distingenda de alteo ("Althaea") / A: alcea, althaea, [US] althea; = ~hollyhock, [US] ~rose mallow F: rose tr=E9mi=E8re G: ? Eibisch, Althee H: = altea I: altea, alcea, bismalva, malvaccione E: alteo L: Alcea *altokumulu= s.o [meteor.] / sorto di nubo (quale kumuluso, nimbo e.c.) / A: altocumulus= F: altocumulus G: ? H: altoc=FAmulo, altoc=FAmulus I: altocumulo *altostr= at.o [meteor.] / sorto di nubo / A: altostratus F: altostratus G: ? H: alto= estrato, altostratus I: altostrato *amfipod.o [zool.] / sorto di krustaceo= o molusko / A: amphipod F: amphipode G: ? H: anf=EDpodo I: anfipode, pulce= di mare E: amfipodo [zool] L: Amphipoda *anabolism.o [biol.] / kontraste = a *katabolismo / A: anabolism F: anabolisme G: ? H: anabolismo I: anabolism= o E: anabolo *anakardi.o [arb.] / arboro. Nur ula sorti produktas *nuxo (k= ozo simila a mandelo o nuco) / A: anacardium F: anacardier G: ? H: anacardo= I: anacardio E: anakardio [arbo] L: Anacardium *apter.a [zool.] / sen (qu= aza) ali [pri insekto] / A: apterous F: apt=E8re G: ? H: =E1ptero I: attero= *apterigot.o [biol. e.c.] / sorto (sub-klaso) di insekto / A: apterygote = [n.] F: apt=E9rygote G: ? H: apterig=F3geno I: apterigoto L: Apterygota {S}= *aquaplan.o / planko sur qua on stacas, tirata sur aquo da rapida batelet= o. Tamen F. aquaplanage, A. aquaplaning bezonas vorto / A: aquaplane F: aqu= aplane G: ? Monoski [...?] {ne en Duden} H: tabla de esqu=ED acu=E1tico I: = acquaplano *aspirac.ar [tr] [fonetiko] / pronuncar (ula sorto di konsonant= o) kun audebla exhalo; tale aspiraco, -ajo. Roze,p100 havas "spiranto" (L. = spirans) kom propozo por la sono, ma ne verbo / A: to aspirate [pronounce a= stop with an audible release of breath] F: aspirer [prononcer en expulsant= de l'air au fond du gosier] G: ? aspirieren, behauchen; Aspiration, Behauc= hung .... H: aspirar [pronunciar con aspiraci=F3n] I: aspirare [articolare,= pronunciare con aspirazione] *barbeku.o [koquo e.c.] / ligna o metala fra= mo por rostar o grilar manjaji super fairo, normale exterdome; (2) per exte= nso repasto o partio per ol. Vorto prop. da C. Gaubert / A: barbecue [appar= atus; meal, party, picnic] F: barbecue [appareil; repas, cuisine, f=EAte] G= : ? Grill f=FCr Barbecue; Barbecue H: barbacoa [parrilla para asar al aire = libre; parrillada, comida; fiesta] I: barbecue [griglia; cottura, festa] E:= fajrrostilo *Bashkir.a / pri la populo partikulara di *Bashkiria / A: Bas= hkir [adj.] F: bachkir, des Bachkirs G: ? H: bashkir E: Bas^kira *Bashkiri= .a [lando] / lando di suda *Urali, di Rusa Federuro / A: Bashkiria F: Bachk= irie G: ? H: Bashkiria E: Bas^kirio *bovide.o [zool.] / mamifero di sorto = "Bovidae" (quale antilopo, bovo, kapro, mutono) / A: bovid, mammal of the o= rder Bovidae F: bovid=E9 G: ? H: b=F3vido I: bovide E: bovedo L: Bovidae *= briofit.o [bot.] / planto-sorto qua inkluzas hepatiki ed ula muski / A: bry= ophyte [any one of hornworts, liverworts, & some mosses] F: bryophyte G: ? = H: bri=F3fito I: briofita E: briofito [bot] L: Brophyta *brucel.o [biol.] = / bakterio qua produktas *bruceloso / A: bacterium of the genus =B0Brucella= =B0 F: bact=E9rie de genre =B0Brucella=B0 G: ? H: bacteria de g=E9nero =B0B= rucella=B0 I: brucella E: brucelo [biol] L: Brucella *brucelos.o [morbo] /= morbo bakteriala di ula bestii e, per li, di homo / A: brucellosis, undula= nt fever F: brucellose, fi=E8vre de Malte, fi=E8vre ondulante G: ? H: bruce= losis, fiebre de malta I: brucellosi, febbre maltese, febre ondulante E: br= ucelozo *ciriped.o [zool.] / marala krustaceo di subklaso "Cirripedia" / A= : cirripede, cirriped, barnacle F: cirrip=E8de G: ? H: cirr=EDpedo I: cirri= pede L: Cirripedia *citozin.o [biokem.] / adenino, guanino, *citozino e *t= imino esas la 4 fundamentala biokemiaji genala / A: cytosine F: cytosine G:= ? H: citosina I: citosina E: citozino [biokem] *dafni.o [animalo] / krust= aceo aquala / A: daphnid, ~water flea F: daphnie [crustac=E9 branchiopode d= 'eau douce], puce d'eau G: ? Daphnie, Daphnia H: dafnia I: dafnia E: dafnio= , akvopulo L: Daphnia (pulex) *Dagestan.o [lando] / republiko di Rusa Fede= ruro / A: Dagestan, Daghestan F: Daghestan, Daguestan G: ?? Dagestaner H: D= aguest=E1n I: Daghestano E: Dagestano *datum.o / un di ensemblo de peci di= informo (quanti, valori, nomi e.c.), apta por analizo od altra trakto / A:= datum; [-i] data F: donn=E9e [information] G: ? Datum [statistische Zahlen= angabe etc, Faktum] H: dato [informaci=F3n] I: dato [elemento di serie che = possono formare oggetto di indagini, ricerche etc] E: donitaj^o, donaj^o; d= atumo, dateno *diatermi.o [medic. e.c.] / varmigo medicinala o kirurgiala = di korpoparto per elektro-kurento. A. diathermic =3D R. diatermicheskiy; ty= eploprozrachn^y / A: diathermy, diathermia F: diathermie G: ? H: diaterm=ED= a I: diatermia E: diatermio [medic ec] *dipno.o [fisho] / fisho / A: dipno= an, dipnoid, lungfish F: dipneuste G: ? H: dipnoo, dipneusto I: dipnoo E: d= ipno, pulmfis^o L: Dipnoi *dopamin.o [biokem.] / substanco biokemiala / A:= dopamine F: dopamine G: ? H: dopamina I: dopamina *Elam [lando] / olima l= ando apud *Tigris, kun linguo skribita kuneiforme / A: Elam F: =C9lam G: ? = H: Elam I: Elam E: Elamo *elaped.o [rept.] / serpento venenoza di familio = "Elapidae" (inkluzas *kobro ed *elapo) / A: elapid F: =E9lapid=E9 G: ? I: e= lapide E: elapedo L: Elapidae *elektret.o [fiz.] / permane polarizita diel= ektriko qua kreas feldo elektrala / A: electret F: =E9lectret G: ? H: elect= reto I: elettrete E: elektreto *enantiomorf.a [kem.] / pri formo o kozo (q= uale kristalo o molekulo) exakte simila ad altra ecepte ke ol esas quale sp= egul-imajo di ta altra / A: enantiomeric, enantiomorphic, enantiomorphous F= : =E9nantiomorphe; [-o] =E9nantiom=E8re G: ? H: enantiomorfo I: enantiomorf= o E: enantiomorfa [kem] *enantiotrop.a [kem.] / pri substanco qua havas du= kristal-formi, un stabila super, la altra sub, chanjo-temperaturo. Tale *e= nantiotropeso (A. enantiotropy, G. Enantiotropie, I. enantotropia) / A: ena= ntiotropic F: =E9nantiotrope G: ? H: enantiotr=F3pico I: enantiotropo E: en= antiotropa [kem] *encefalin.o [biokem.] / kemiajo biologiala simila a *end= orfino. Ido ja havas "encefalo" ed "encefalito" / A: encephalin, enkephalin= F: enk=E9phaline G: ? H: encefalina I: encefalina E: encefalino [biokem] = *endoteli.o [anat.] / membrano di korpala tubi e.c. / A: endothelium F: end= oth=E9lium G: ? H: endotelio I: endotelio E: endotelio [anat] *entalpi.o [= fiz.] / koncepto termodinamikala / A: enthalpy, heat content [phys.] F: ent= halpie G: ? H: entalp=EDa I: entalpia E: entalpio [fiz] *eukariot.o [biol.= ] / organismo di qua singla celulo havas nukleo kromosomala; kontraste a *p= rokarioto / A: eukaryote, eucaryote F: eucaryote G: ? H: eucariota I: eucar= iote E: eu`karioto, nukleulo *extrors.a [biol.] / turnanta adextere (pri p= lanto o planto-parto) / A: extrorse F: extrorse G: ? H: extrorso I: estrors= o E: ekstrorsa *fermion.o [fiz.] / sorto di partikulo fizikala / A: fermio= n F: fermion G: ? H: fermi=F3n I: fermione E: fermiono *filtrum.o [anat.] = / kavajo inter nazo e supera labio / A: philtrum G: ? I: filtro [anat.] E: = filtrumo *fimos.o [medic.] / streteso di prepuco / A: phimosis F: phimosis= G: ? H: fimosis I: fimosi E: fimozo *finial.o [arkit. e.c.] / ornamento s= upra, ofte floratra / A: finial F: fleuron, =E9pi (de fa=EEtage) G: ? H: fl= or=F3n I: fiore crociforme E: finialo *flebotomi.o [kir.] / incizo kirurgi= ala ye veino / A: phlebotomy, venesection F: phl=E9botomie G: ? H: flebotom= =EDa I: flebotomia E: flebotomio [kir] *fotoliz.o o fotolis.o? [kem.] / ke= miala deskompozo pro lumo o simile. Verbo bezonata? / A: photolysis F: phot= olyse G: ? H: fot=F3lisis, fotolisis I: fotolisi *franchis.ar [tr] [komerc= o] / permisar (firmo o persono) vendar, en ula distrikto, vari o servi uzan= te por oli sua (ne lua) nomo komercala (ta dil *franchisanto) / A: to grant= a franchise to [commercial sense] F: franchiser G: ?; [-o] Alleinverkauf ?= H: franquiciar E: ~koncesii *galinace.o [ucelo] / ucelo di grupo "Gallifo= rmes". Pesch,p428 ye "pavono": "galinacei"; p432 ye "perdriko": "Ucelo gali= nacea" / A: gallinacean F: galliforme G: ? H: gallin=E1cea I: gallinaceo E:= galinoforma birdo L: Galliformes *Ganimed.o [mitol. e.c.] / (1) persono m= itala; (2) satelito di *Jupitero (ne *Neptuno), deskovrita da Galileo / A: = Ganymede [myth.; moon] F: Ganym=E8de [myth.; satellite] G: Ganymed [myth.];= ? H: Ganimedes, Gan=EDmedes [mitol.; sat=E9lite] I: Ganimede [mitol.; astr= .] *geotermi.o [geol.] / interna varmeso di Tero; tale *geoterm(i)ala (A. = geothermal, H. geot=E9rmico) / A: geothermal energy, internal heat of the E= arth F: g=E9othermie [chaleur interne de la Terre] G: ? H: geotermia I: geo= termia [calore interno della Terra] E: geotermo *gilemet.o [tipog.] / simb= olo tipografala, "=AB" o "=BB", inventita da Guillaume / A: guillemet [=AB = or =BB] F: guillemet G: ? H: comilla angular I: virgoletta *gluon.o [fiz.]= / partikulo atomala / A: gluon F: gluon G: ? H: glu=F3n I: gluone E: gluon= o [fiz] *gofr.ar [tr] / metodo dekorar. Tale *gofrilo, *gofruro / A: to go= ffer, gauffer F: gaufrer G: ? H: gofrar I: goffrare E: gofri *Gondwan.a [l= ando] / olima kontinentego segun teorio, nomizita pro regiono di India / A:= Gondwanaland, Gondwana F: Gondwana [continent] G: ? H: Gondwana [continent= e] E: Gondvano *graptolit.o [fosilo] / sorto di animalo, extingita ma trov= ebla fosile / A: graptolite F: graptolite, graptolithe G: ? H: graptolite I= : graptolito E: graptolito [fosilo] [FINO] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1243 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47790 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 22:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2004 22:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2004 22:36:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 4146 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2004 22:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 9 Jun 2004 22:35:37 -0000 Message-ID: <003401c44e72$8e013aa0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:38:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: vortifado X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, En la franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront on = trovas la sequanta vorti: piscine [F] : balno-baseno bassin [F] : (meuble= , g=E9og.) baseno; (pi=E8ce d'eau) vasko; (port) doko; (anat.) pelvo bassi= ne [F] : baseno Me opinionas ke esus plu bone havar: piscine [F] : nateyo = bassine [F] : baseneto "Me balnas en la baseno di la nateyo" vice "me baln= as en la baseno dil balno-baseno" qua esas segun me tre leda . Pluse me ne= trovas la traduko di vorto "sauna [F]" qua signifikas en franca vapor-baln= o ma anke la loko. Do me opinionas ke esus bone havar : sauna [F]: vapor-b= alno; vapor-balneyo Quon vu pensas pri to ? Me predankas vu pro vua respon= do Kordiale Loik [Non-text portions of this message have been removed= ] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1244 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62750 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 07:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 07:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 07:16:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.254] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jun 2004 07:16:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:16:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003401c44e72$8e013aa0$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1372 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: vortifado X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loiic Landais" wrote: > > Pluse me ne trovas la traduko di vorto "sauna [F]" qua signifikas en franca vapor-balno ma anke la loko. > Do me opinionas ke esus bone havar : > sauna [F]: vapor-balno; vapor-balneyo > > Quon vu pensas pri to ? > Me predankas vu pro vua respondo Kara Loic, ed altri Yen mea penso pri "sauna". Quon signifikas verbo "balnar"? Kad ol signifikas ke "ulu sidas en kuvo e lavas su kun sapono"? E quon signifikas verbo "banar"? "Sauna" esas "banya" en Rusa qua esas un ek AFGHIR-lingui. Hike en Finlando "sauna" havas du chambreti, varmega chambreto, qua esas precipua "sauna", e chambreto, en qua esas dushilo, nulafoye ula kuvo. En "sauna" esas vaporo quo rezultas de aquo jetita sur varmigita stoni (naturala o ceramika). La varmega vaporo iras alonge plafono sur la homo quo sidas sur alte situita loko. La vaporo esas nevidebla ma ol esas kam varmega aero. En "sauna" homo juas pro la varmegeso (o la varmeso) e sudorifas. Pose la homo lavas su sub dushilo o kun aquo ek kuveti, nulafoye sidante en kuvo. En Finlandana esas du verbi por "balnar en kuvo" e "balnar en sauna" pro ke ni opinionas ke li esas du diferenta igi. Por me esas desfacila pensar ke "sauna" esus vapor-baln(ey)o. Ka Finlandana povus donar vorti sauno*, sauna*, saunar*? Arto Moisio, Finlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1245 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32837 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 15:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 15:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0903.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.22) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 15:41:43 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-3-14.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.14.196.14]) by mwinf0903.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 5FBBD18003F2 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:41:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <011201c44f01$e70eb980$0ec40e50@arno> To: References: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:45:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.22 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: vortifado X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bon jorno Arto, Loik ed omni, se me korekte komprenis : sauno = sauno-chambreto ube on povas saun(ad)ar. sauneyo = sauno-domo kun un sauno o plura sauni, dush-chambro/i, repozeyo... Amikale Jean Cassignol (Francia) ----- Original Message ----- From: Arto Moisio To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: [linguo] Re: vortifado --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loic Landais" wrote: > > Pluse me ne trovas la traduko di vorto "sauna [F]" qua signifikas en franca vapor-balno ma anke la loko. > Do me opinionas ke esus bone havar : > sauna [F]: vapor-balno; vapor-balneyo > > Quon vu pensas pri to ? > Me predankas vu pro vua respondo Kara Loic, ed altri Yen mea penso pri "sauna". Quon signifikas verbo "balnar"? Kad ol signifikas ke "ulu sidas en kuvo e lavas su kun sapono"? E quon signifikas verbo "banar"? "Sauna" esas "banya" en Rusa qua esas un ek AFGHIR-lingui. Hike en Finlando "sauna" havas du chambreti, varmega chambreto, qua esas precipua "sauna", e chambreto, en qua esas dushilo, nulafoye ula kuvo. En "sauna" esas vaporo quo rezultas de aquo jetita sur varmigita stoni (naturala o ceramika). La varmega vaporo iras alonge plafono sur la homo quo sidas sur alte situita loko. La vaporo esas nevidebla ma ol esas kam varmega aero. En "sauna" homo juas pro la varmegeso (o la varmeso) e sudorifas. Pose la homo lavas su sub dushilo o kun aquo ek kuveti, nulafoye sidante en kuvo. En Finlandana esas du verbi por "balnar en kuvo" e "balnar en sauna" pro ke ni opinionas ke li esas du diferenta igi. Por me esas desfacila pensar ke "sauna" esus vapor-baln(ey)o. Ka Finlandana povus donar vorti sauno*, sauna*, saunar*? Arto Moisio, Finlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1246 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27086 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 16:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 16:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0904.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.22) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 16:02:49 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-3-14.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.14.196.14]) by mwinf0904.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 46D3818000CE for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:02:47 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <013701c44f04$da3caed0$0ec40e50@arno> To: References: <003401c44e72$8e013aa0$bf60dc51@landloic> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:06:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.22 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Re: [linguo] vortifado X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Loik, quon vu pensa pri : [F] piscine 1 =3D lu falis kun sua vesti = aden la nat(o)baseno e lu preske dronesis. [F] piscine 2 =3D me iros morge = a la nateyo (nat(o)domo) e me natos dum horo. Amikal saluti Jean ----- O= riginal Message ----- From: Loic Landais To: linguolisto Sent: Thu= rsday, June 10, 2004 12:38 AM Subject: [linguo] vortifado Kar amiki, = En la franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront on trovas la= sequanta vorti: piscine [F] : balno-baseno bassin [F] : (meuble, g=E9o= g.) baseno; (pi=E8ce d'eau) vasko; (port) doko; (anat.) pelvo bassine [F]= : baseno Me opinionas ke esus plu bone havar: piscine [F] : nateyo = bassine [F] : baseneto "Me balnas en la baseno di la nateyo" vice "me ba= lnas en la baseno dil balno-baseno" qua esas segun me tre leda . [...] = Quon vu pensas pri to ? Me predankas vu pro vua respondo Kordiale Lo= ik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1247 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14543 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 20:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 20:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.188) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 20:10:05 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.155] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BYVoK-0003Ll-00; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:06:04 +0200 Received: from [212.114.238.237] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1BYVoJ-0006Sw-00; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:06:03 +0200 Message-ID: <001d01c44f26$54843ac0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Ferdinand M�ller" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Robert Pontnau" , "G�nter Schlemminger" , "Carmelo Mico" , "Gerhard A. D�hrn" , "Igor Wasilewski" , "Manfred Magin" , "Manfred Welper" , "Marion Kasper" , "Wolfgang Quies" Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:05:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.188 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Nova posiblesi babilar en Ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! Me jus kreis nova posibleso babilar en Ido, nome la "Ido= babileyo". Ol funcionas kadre de la ret-situo www.ido.li . Me aranjis, ke= omnu, qua deziras babilar unesme devos registragar su unfoye che http://= uniono-por-la-linguo-internaciona-ido.de/tinc?key=3DO1isYybM&channel=3D5405= 2. On devas insertar la sequanta informi ibe: Spitzname (Nick) =3D uzanton= omo segun deziro Passwort =3D pasvorto Name =3D propra nomo (E-Mail =3D pro= pra e-postala adreso Homepage =3D adreso dil persona hempagino) . L'inserto= di e-postala adreso e hempagino ne urjante esas necesa. Pos insertar ca in= formi on klikas ad "Go". En la sequanta fenestro "Login" on insertez l'ante= selektita uzantonomo sub "Benutzername" e pasvorto sub "Passwort" ed itere= ad "Go". Pose apertigas la fenestro dil babileyo. Se on lektas sua uzanton= omo dextre, ube anke omna altra duminstante babilanta personi esas videbla,= la registrado esis sucesa ed on povas klikar en la vakua spaco pos "Text = eingeben", enskribar frazo e klikar la klavo "Enter" sur la klavaro. Tale = on povas babilar. Se on volas livar la babileyo on nur devas klikar sur "Ab= melden" sinistre sube. Por future enirar a la Idobabileyo on simple irez a = la komencpagino di ULI www.ido.li e klikez ibe sinistre sube ad "La Ido-bab= ileyo di ULI" od a la du monitori sube ed en la sequanta fenestro insertez = la uzantonomo e pasvorto selektita dum la registrado e pose klikez ad "Go".= Me deziras agreabla babilado che la duesma Ido-babileyo. Kordiala saluti= a vi omna sendas Frank Kasper administranto dil ret-situo di ULI frank.kas= per@ido.li From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1248 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61498 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 20:21:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 20:21:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 20:21:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 1531 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 20:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Jun 2004 20:21:57 -0000 Message-ID: <009301c44f29$0ce7fc80$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" References: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:25:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: vortifado X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kar Arto Moisio, > Quon signifikas verbo "balnar"? Kad ol signifikas ke "ulu sidas > en kuvo e lavas su kun sapono"? No "balnar" ne signifikas "sidar en kuvo e lavar su kun sapono" ma jus pozar sua korpo tote o partale en liquido o gaso. Do on povas dicar vaporo-balno, maro-balno, aero-balno, spumo-balno, ... To esas pro quo me propozis sauna [F] : vapor-balno; vapor-balneyo Me ne kredas ke nova vorti kom sauno*, sauna*, saunar* esas necesa. > E quon signifikas verbo "banar"? "Sauna" esas "banya" en Rusa qua esas un ek > AFGHIR-lingui. Segun me "banar "ne existas en Ido. En Esperanto existas "bani" Amikale Loik La liquido povante esar ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Arto Moisio" � : Envoy� : jeudi 10 juin 2004 09:16 Objet : [linguo] Re: vortifado > --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loic Landais" > wrote: > > > > Pluse me ne trovas la traduko di vorto "sauna [F]" qua > signifikas en franca vapor-balno ma anke la loko. > > Do me opinionas ke esus bone havar : > > sauna [F]: vapor-balno; vapor-balneyo > > > > Quon vu pensas pri to ? > > Me predankas vu pro vua respondo > > Kara Loic, ed altri > > Yen mea penso pri "sauna". > > Quon signifikas verbo "balnar"? Kad ol signifikas ke "ulu sidas > en kuvo e lavas su kun sapono"? E quon signifikas verbo > "banar"? "Sauna" esas "banya" en Rusa qua esas un ek > AFGHIR-lingui. > > Hike en Finlando "sauna" havas du chambreti, varmega > chambreto, qua esas precipua "sauna", e chambreto, en qua > esas dushilo, nulafoye ula kuvo. En "sauna" esas vaporo quo > rezultas de aquo jetita sur varmigita stoni (naturala o ceramika). > La varmega vaporo iras alonge plafono sur la homo quo sidas > sur alte situita loko. La vaporo esas nevidebla ma ol esas kam > varmega aero. En "sauna" homo juas pro la varmegeso (o la > varmeso) e sudorifas. Pose la homo lavas su sub dushilo o kun > aquo ek kuveti, nulafoye sidante en kuvo. > > En Finlandana esas du verbi por "balnar en kuvo" e "balnar en > sauna" pro ke ni opinionas ke li esas du diferenta igi. Por me > esas desfacila pensar ke "sauna" esus vapor-baln(ey)o. Ka > Finlandana povus donar vorti sauno*, sauna*, saunar*? > > Arto Moisio, Finlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1249 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51296 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 20:43:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 20:43:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 20:43:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11130 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 20:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 10 Jun 2004 20:42:56 -0000 Message-ID: <00b001c44f2b$fb2af120$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" References: <003401c44e72$8e013aa0$bf60dc51@landloic> <013701c44f04$da3caed0$0ec40e50@arno> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:46:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] vortifado X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Jean, Me kunkordas kun vu por tradukar plu juste piscine [F] ca-maniere: [F] piscine : nato-baseno ; nateyo ma ne "balno-baseno" quale on trovas en la franca-Ido dicionario. Quon opinionas la linguala Sekretario dil ULI pri to ? Predanko Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Jean Cassignol" � : Envoy� : jeudi 10 juin 2004 18:06 Objet : Re: [linguo] vortifado Kara Loik, quon vu pensa pri : [F] piscine 1 = lu falis kun sua vesti aden la nat(o)baseno e lu preske dronesis. [F] piscine 2 = me iros morge a la nateyo (nat(o)domo) e me natos dum horo. Amikal saluti Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: Loic Landais To: linguolisto Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:38 AM Subject: [linguo] vortifado Kar amiki, En la franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufront on trovas la sequanta vorti: piscine [F] : balno-baseno bassin [F] : (meuble, g�og.) baseno; (pi�ce d'eau) vasko; (port) doko; (anat.) pelvo bassine [F] : baseno Me opinionas ke esus plu bone havar: piscine [F] : nateyo bassine [F] : baseneto "Me balnas en la baseno di la nateyo" vice "me balnas en la baseno dil balno-baseno" qua esas segun me tre leda . [...] Quon vu pensas pri to ? Me predankas vu pro vua respondo Kordiale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1250 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87948 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2004 21:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2004 21:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaab1ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.2) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2004 21:12:19 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaab1ab.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i5ALC32O028906 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:12:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:10:35 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200406101711_MC3-1-847E-E056@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.2 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Urala lingui (2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Arto Moisio, Danko pro vua expliki, qui helpas. Pri "Madyara", me supozas ke mem se la vorto havas senco plu streta en kuntexto historiala (pri nur un ek plura tribui), forsan nun ol povas havar senco plu vasta. Tamen, me ne savas, e me nur supozas ke esis tala motivo por adopto dil vorto. Esus utila se on povus trovar en anciena revuo diskuto pri ol ante adopto dil vorto. Pri altra punto, ya existas sufixo "ik" en Ido (por malado), ma la literi "ik" en "ekonomiko" (e plura altra vorti) ne esas sufixo di Ido (mem se, quale vu dicas, importacita "celite" de la bazala lingui), nam "ekonomik" esas la radiko. Esus tre desfacila evitar tala aparo di sama literi (quale en sufixo) ye la fino di ula radiki. Exemple: "gnostika", "goeleto", "gorilo", "gorjereto", "gracila", "grafika", "grafito", "gramatiko", "gramino", "granato", "grandioza", "granita, -o", "granulo", "grapino", "gratifikar", "gratino" (regardante hazarde nur du pagini di la lexiko da Dyer). Fortunoze, ne povas existar "gnost-ika", "goel-eto", "gor-ilo" e.c. Mem "gran-ulo", malgre existo di "grano", havus nula senco. Do, me ne kredas ke ni bezonas evitar la formo "uralika". Robert. >3. Urala vc Uralika Me pensas ke sufixo -ik oficale produktas nur nomi di maladi, por ex. "kord-ik-a", "pest-ik-a". Altrakaze esas vorti kam "ekonom-ik-o", "elektron-ik-o", "skept-ik-o", e.c. Ka vorto "uraliko" aptesus a vorto-grupo di "ekonomiko"? Me ne savas, ka tala sufixo esas aceptita kom oficala sufixo di Ido o kad -ik esas vorto-parto importinta "celite" aden Ido en nemulta vorti.< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1251 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67407 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2004 14:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2004 14:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0204.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.29) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2004 14:36:50 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-1-78.w80-11.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.11.219.78]) by mwinf0204.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id A9EEFA0003FA; Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:36:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <015d01c452e6$af732090$4edb0b50@arno> To: , , , Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:40:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.29 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Musiko alfabete (Ido -> Franca) - Literi D-F + korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara samideani, Voluntez korektigar : ari.et.o (vice : ariet.o) ariette = ... ed adjuntar : arioz.o ? arioso (air) D r=E9 D-bemol.o r=E9 b=E9mol D= -bequadr.o r=E9 b=E9carre D-diez.o r=E9 di=E8se > D-du.bemol.o ? r=E9 do= uble b=E9mol > D-du.diez.o ? r=E9 double di=E8se > D-du.opl.a.bemol.o ? r= =E9 double b=E9mol > D-du.opl.a.diez.o ? r=E9 double di=E8se diapazon.o d= iapason (petit instrument qui donne le "la") diatonik.a diatonique diez.o = di=E8se dilet.ar =EAtre amateur de, pratiquer en dilettante dilet.er.o = un, une dilettante dirigent.o ? (voir =E0 orkestr.estr.o) chef d'orchestr= e disk.o disque disonanc.aj.o dissonance disonanc.ar =EAtre dissonnant d= isonanc.o dissonance divertiment.o ? divertissement, divertimento djaz.ba= nd.o ? orchestre de jazz djaz.ist.o ? musicien professionnel de jazz, jaz= zman djaz.o ? jazz dominant.o dominante > du.bemol.o ? double b=E9mol > = du.diez.o ? double di=E8se duet.o duo, duetto > du.im.pauz.o ? demi-paus= e (silence) > du.im.silenc.o ? demi-pause (silence) duolet.o duolet > du.= opl.a.bemol.o ? double b=E9mol > du.opl.a.diez.o ? double di=E8se E mi = E-bemol.o mi b=E9mol E-bequadr.o mi b=E9carre E-diez.o mi di=E8se > E-du= .bemol.o ? mi double b=E9mol > E-du.diez.o ? mi double di=E8se > E-du.opl= .a.bemol.o ? mi double b=E9mol > E-du.opl.a.diez.o ? mi double di=E8se el= ektr.o-akustik.al.a musik.o musique =E9lectro-acoustique elektronik.al.a m= uzik.o musique =E9lectronique ensembl.o ? ensemble (vocal, instrumental) = > epinet.o ? (voir =E0 > spinet.o ?) =E9pinette (instrument) etud.o ? = =E9tude (composition instrumentale pr=E9sentant des difficult=E9s technique= s) F fa F-bemol.o fa b=E9mol F-bequadr.o fa b=E9carre F-diez.o fa di= =E8se > F-du.bemol.o ? fa double b=E9mol > F-du.diez.o ? fa double di=E8s= e > F-du.opl.a.bemol.o ? fa double b=E9mol > F-du.opl.a.diez.o ? fa doubl= e di=E8se fagot.o basson allemand, fagott fals.a faux (adjectif) falset.i= st.o falsettiste falset.o fausset (registre vocal) falset.o-voc.o voix = de fausset fandang.o fandango (danse) fanfar.o fanfare (air jou=E9 par de= s cuivres) fantazi.o fantaisie (composition musicale) farandol.o farandol= e (danse) fermat.o ? point d'orgue festival.o festival fifr.o fifre (ins= trument) filharmoni.al.a philharmonique (adjectif) filharmoni.o philharmo= nie, orchestre philharmonique final.o ? final ou finale (nom masculin) fio= ritur.o fioriture (ornement) flajolet.o flageolet (instrument) flamenk.o = ? flamenco flut.er.o un, une fl=FBtiste amateur flut.ist.o un, une fl=FB= tiste professionnel(le) flut.o fl=FBte folklor.o folklore forlan.o forla= ne (danse) fortepian.o fortepiano ou pianoforte (instrument) foxtrot.o fo= x-trot (danse) frap-instrument.o instrument =E0 percussion fraz.o phrase = fug.o ? fugue > furi-ari.o air de furie, air de fureur (op=E9ra) > furor-= ari.o ? air de furie, air de fureur (op=E9ra) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1252 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66265 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2004 20:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2004 20:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2af.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.136) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jun 2004 20:51:39 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2af.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i5GKpcLK012263 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:49:44 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: Linguolisto Message-ID: <200406161651_MC3-1-84D5-324C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.136 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: Rusa tradukuri bezonata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kad esas irgu qua povas helpar pri Rusa tradukuri por posibla nova vorti di Ido? A qua povas e voluntas helpar me sendos listo de vorti kun tradukuri en plura altra lingui (ofte Angla, Franca, Hispana, Italiana e forsan Germana). Danko. Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1253 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73994 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2004 05:38:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jun 2004 05:38:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf0804.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.23) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2004 05:38:00 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-2-85.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.252.85]) by mwinf0804.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id EFE5818000EB; Sun, 20 Jun 2004 07:37:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005501c45689$45fd1a20$55fc0d50@arno> To: , , , Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 07:41:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.23 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Musiko alfabete (Ido -> Franca) - Literi G-J + korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara samideani, Voluntez korektigar : akord.ig.il.o cl=E9 d'accord (pian= o, clavecin...), accordoir vice : akord.ig.il.o cl=E9 d'accord (piano, cla= vecin...) > dirigent.o ? (voir =E0 > orkestr.estr.o) chef d'orchestre v= ice : dirigent.o ? (voir =E0 orkestr.estr.o) chef d'orchestre elektr.o-ak= ustik.al.a muzik.o musique =E9lectro-acoustique vice : elektr.o-akustik.al= .a musik.o musique =E9lectro-acoustique ed adjuntar : akompan.ad.o acco= mpagnement (action d'accompagner) akompan.ant.o accompagnateur ou accompag= natrice akompan.ar su s'accompagner (per pian.o au piano) akompan.er.o ac= compagnateur ou accompagnatrice habituel(le), attitr=E9(e) akompan.ist.o a= ccompagnateur ou accompagnatrice professionnel(le) akompan.o accompagnemen= t (action d'accompagner) akompan.ur.o accompagnement (r=E9sultat jou=E9 ou= not=E9) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D G sol G-bemol.o sol b=E9m= ol G-bequadr.o sol b=E9carre G-diez.o sol di=E8se > G-du.bemol.o ? sol d= ouble b=E9mol > G-du.diez.o ? sol double di=E8se > G-du.opl.a.bemol.o ? s= ol double b=E9mol > G-du.opl.a.diez.o ? sol double di=E8se gailard.o ? ga= illarde (danse) galant.a ? galant (style) gamb.o-viol.o ? viole de gambe = (instrument) gam.o gamme gavot.o gavotte (danse) gimbard.o guimbarde (in= strument) gitar.o guitare glokenspil.o ? glockenspiel (instrument) gong.o= ? gong guzl.o ? guzla (instrument) H si H-bemol.o si b=E9mol H-bequad= r.o si b=E9carre H-diez.o si di=E8se > H-du.bemol.o ? si double b=E9mol = > H-du.diez.o ? si double di=E8se > H-du.opl.a.bemol.o ? si double b=E9mo= l > H-du.opl.a.diez.o ? si double di=E8se habaner.o ? habanera (danse) ha= rmoni.ar =EAtre en harmonie, s'harmoniser harmoni.ig.ad.o harmonisation (= action d'harmoniser) harmoni.ig.ar harmoniser (une m=E9lodie avec d'autres= parties) harmoni.ig.ur.o harmonisation (parties harmonis=E9es) harmonik.a= l.a harmonique (adjectif) (physique) harmonik.o harmonica (voir =E0 bok.h= armonik.o) harmonik.o un ou une harmonique (physique) harmoni.o harmonie = (ensemble harmonieux de sons) harmoni.oz.a harmonieux (adjectif) harmonium= .o harmonium (instrument) harp.o harpe hoboy.o hautbois imitar.ad.o ? = imitation (action) imitar.o ? imitation (action) imitar.ur.o ? imitation= (r=E9sultat) improviz.ar improviser improviz.ad.o improvisation (action)= improviz.o improvisation (action) improviz.ur.o improvisation (r=E9sulta= t) instrument.ar.o instrumentarium instrument.ist.o instrumentiste instru= ment.iz.ad.o instrumentation (action), orchestration (action) instrument.i= z.ar orchestrer instrument.iz.o instrumentation (action), orchestration (= action) instrument.o instrument inter.akord.ar =EAtre accord=E9(e)s (musi= cien(ne)s, instruments) inter.akord.esk.ar s'accorder (musicien(ne)s qui m= ettent leurs instruments au m=EAme diapason) intermedz.o ? intermezzo, int= erm=E8de interpret.ad.o interpr=E9tation (action) interpret.ant.o interpr= =E8te interpret.ar interpr=E9ter interpret.er.o interpr=E8te habituel(le)= interpret.o interpr=E9tation (action) interpret.ur.o interpr=E9tation (r= =E9sultat) interval.o intervalle inton.ar entonner (un chant) (=3D kant.e= sk.ar) introit.o ? intro=EFt (lithurgie catholique) jig.o jigue (danse= ) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [Non-text portions of this message have been rem= oved] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1254 Return-Path: X-Sender: counterrev@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64216 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2004 02:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jun 2004 02:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.30) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2004 02:41:47 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:41:19 -0700 Received: from 68.218.233.237 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jun 2004 02:41:19 GMT X-Originating-Email: [counterrev@hotmail.com] X-Sender: counterrev@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com, idostab@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, idolerneyo@yahoogroups.com, idopagino@yahoogroups.com, publikigo@yahoogroups.com, ido-angla@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:41:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2004 02:41:19.0854 (UTC) FILETIME=[907700E0:01C458CB] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 207.68.163.30 From: "David Mann" Subject: La Forumi Idala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=148040447 X-Yahoo-Profile: idisto Kar Amiki, Plura monati ante nun, me esforcis apertigar nova diskuto-forumi en e pri Ido konocata kom "La Forumi Idala". Me konstruktis li, mantenis li, e plukonocigis li. Multa membri juntis, proxime duadek-e-kin, ma nultempe esas multa agado. Pos monati sen nova temi, me klozis la forumi, kun multa decepto. Me vere opinionis ed ankore opinionas ke la sistemo phpBB esas tante plu bona kam la posto-listi di Yahoo! e MSN. Me pensis ke la forumi povus kreskar e forsan mem remplasar la listi, od altre vere divenar hemo di Idisti del tota mondo. Ol esis mea revo. Ma me nultempe cedis mea revo. Me esas hike hodie por chasar mea revo itere. Me esas hike anuncar la riapertigo di la Forumi Idala! Lasez me explikar pro quo me opinionas ke ol esas bona ideo: - Plu bone desegnita. La forumi esas simple plu bone desegnita kam la posto-listi. Singla temo havas sua propra seciono; omna repliki esas kun la skriburo original! Nula serchado e nula konfundo! - Multa lingui. On povas lektar la texti administriva en multa lingui. E ni povas adjuntar plu multa lingui kande ulu bezonas li. - Nula averti. Ni hostas la forumi a nia propra tereno, vice uzar sistemo di tre granda firmo. - Simpleso. Singla grupo Idistala povas havar sua propra forumo, ma omna li esos relatita. On povas aplikar unfoye e lore skribar en irga forumi. Esas plu simpla! - Uniono. Ni povas unionar omna Idisti en un sistemo. Unioneso esas bona por la komunajo e do esas bona por Ido ipsa. Me esperas ke vi konsideros vizitar e juntar la forumi! Danko pro via tempo ed atenco! Yen la ligilo: http://www.davidmann.us/ido/forums/ Kordiale, David MANN Administrero di la Forumi Idala http://www.davidmann.us/ido/forums/ _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee� Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1255 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 49369 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2004 09:29:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2004 09:29:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2004 09:29:01 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.48.241.104) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40D8450100035D4F for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:28:31 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c45b60$93c0f160$68f13052@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:33:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.216.176.144 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Respondo a Latinisto. Konjuncioni X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus En Oktobro 2003, en mea mesajo 1028 "Sintaxo" a Linguolisto, me parolis pri la difero inter la konjuncioni 'quoniam' e 'nam' , e pri la relati inter la propozicioni apartenanta a frazo komplexa (subordineso, koordineso, apudpozeso). En Decembro 2003 me recevis, de nekonocata amanto dil Latina, privata Latina mesajo, di +quu yen parta traduko: <<< Konocata Idisto, mea amiko, Robert Carnaghan sendis a me tua elektronikala letro, pri vorti 'quoniam' e 'nam'. Nam Robert savas ke me prizas kozi gramatikala, precipue Latina, e raportis a me ke tu kultivas la Latina... A l'uzanti dil Latina plezas omna-sorta konjuncioni... Tu skribis parta listo ... Me dezirus informesar pri omna sorto. Qua es l'altra sorti di konjuncioni?... >>> Quoniam* mea originala mesajo esis publika, publike me respondas. Per omna sorto di konjuncioni me ne povas provizar l'afabla skribanto, pro diversa motivi: - pro mea limiti; - pro la diferi inter lingui e linguisti; - pro ke apud simpla konjuncioni existas multa "konjunciona expresuri", ne sempre enkodexigebla; - pro ke por ula konjuncioni e konjunciona expresuri es necerta la klasifiko kom adverbi vice. Me nur plulongigos segun-save mea antea trunkigita listo, relate la sintaxo Idala. Ne necesesas dicar ke traktesas nur pri personala skema skiso. ### KONJUNCIONI SUBORDINANTA e PROPOZICIONI SUBORDINITA ### De mea antea mesajo: <<< En la propozicionala subordineso, du o plua propozicioni, konektita da konjuncioni "subordinala" (subordinanta), o da pronomi o adverbi relativa, trovesas en relato hierarkiala: una propoziciono (chefa o primara) es sintaxe e parte semantike autonoma; la/e altra (subordinita o sekundara) ne es autonoma, ma dependas sintaxe e semantike de la primara, o de altra sekundara en-katene. Ula propoziciono havas "sintaxala autonomeso" se, extraktita de lua kuntexto sintaxala, retenas lua "gramatikaleso", t.e. havas gramatikala kapableso stacar sola korekte. Ula propoziciono havas "semantikala autonomeso" se, extraktita de lua kuntexto sintaxala, retenas lua senco generala... >>> Esas plura konjuncioni subordinanta, qui korelatas a plura sorti di propozicioni subordinita: - konjuncioni subordinanta KOMPLETIGIVA (ke...) ... me esperas ke to eventos balde ... lu afirmas ke la decido es ne-yusta - konjuncioni subordinanta DEKLARIVA (ke...) ... un kozo es certa: ke ica temo es tre komplexa ... ulu facis bona propozo: ke singlu parolez nur pos reflektir - konjuncioni subordinanta SKOPALA (por ke...) ... li luktas por ke lia idei aceptesez - konjuncioni subordinanta KAUZALA (pro ke, donite ke, tante plu ke, time ke, quoniam*...) ... il abandonis el, pro ke el esabis nefidela ... quoniam* tu promisis irar, tu irez - konjuncioni subordinanta DEVENALA/FONTALA (de ke...) ... lua falio dependas de ke lu esis male konsilata - konjuncioni subordinanta MOYENALA (per ke...) ... tu rikonocos me, per ke me geros* (1) blanka vesto - konjuncioni subordinanta KONSEQUIVA (tale ke, tante ke...) ... el es tre timida, tale ke el nultempe regardas en l'okuli ... il es tante malada, ke il ne plus ekiras hemo ... lua diskurso esis tante tedanta, ke nulu askoltis ol - konjuncioni subordinanta KONCESIVA (quankam, malgre ke, anke se, irge-quante...) ... quankam to semblas neposibla, to eventis ... li mariajesis, malgre ke elua genitori esis kontrea ... se el ne es richa, el es tre bela ... anke se on es jentila kun lu, lu es sempre desafabla kun omnu ... irge quante la patro kriminis, la filii ne devas expiacar lua kulpi - konjuncioni subordinanta OPOZIVA/SUBSTITUCIVA (kontre ke, vice ke...) ... tu insistas parolar, kontre ke tu devus tacar ... me esforcas helpar, kontre ke lu duras jenar ... es plubona ke tu laboras, vice ke tu ocias - konjuncioni subordinanta KONDICIONALA (kondicione ke, se nur, nur se...) ... me helpos tu, kondicione ke tu kondutas honeste ... li aceptos, se nur tu facos a li sat bona propozo - konjuncioni subordinanta HIPOTEZALA (se, kaze ke, supoze ke...) ... se tu volas sucesar, tu laborez harde ... kaze ke to eventos, ni devas esar preparita - konjuncioni subordinanta TEMPALA (kande, pos ke, apene ke, til ke, dum ke, omnafoye ke...) ... depos ke el departis, la domo senblas vakua ... apene ke il arivis, il komencis impozar sua volo - konjuncioni subordinanta KOMPARALA (quale se, quaze ke, tante...quante, tam/plu/min...kam, quante plu...tante plu,...) ... tu parolas quale se me kulpas pri to ... il manjas tante, quante necesesas por vivar [egaleso] ... li restos ibe tam longe kam esos necesa [egaleso] ... el savas plue kam el dicas [supereso] ... la situeso es min desfavoroza kam to semblas [infreso] ... quante plu on ofras a li tante plu li demandas [proporciono direta] ... quante min li facas tante plu li pretendas [proporciono inversa] - konjuncioni subordinanta ADEQUATESALA (tro...por ke, sat...por ke,...) ... tu mentiis tro freque, por ke nun tu povas kredesar ... lu es sat inteligenta, por ke lu povas komprenar sua erori - konjuncioni subordinanta QUESTIONIVA (ka, kande, ube, qua, quo, quala...) ... me questionas kad il es felica ... nulu savas kande il arivos ... on ne komprenas pro quo li divorcis - konjuncioni subordinanta ECEPTIVA (ecepte se, ecepte ke...) ... me obedias tu, ecepte ke tu imperas agar kontre lego - konjuncioni subordinanta EXKLUZIVA (sen ke...) ... il esis trahizata, sen ke il havis ul suspekto - konjuncioni subordinanta LIMITIZIVA (segun quante...) ... lu sempre kondutis honeste, segun quante me savas - konjuncioni subordinanta ADJUNTIVA (ultre ke...) ... ultre ke lu es habila, lu es fortunoza ### KONJUNCIONI KOORDINANTA e PROPOZICIONI KOORDINITA ### De mea antea mesajo: <<< En propozicionala koordineso, du o plua propozicioni, konektita da konjunciono "koordinala" (koordinanta), retenas singla la propra autonomeso, sintaxe e semantike: altra-vorte la propozicioni koordinita es sintaxe sen-dependa e sam-valora, e semantike komplete sencoza. >>> Esas plura konjuncioni koordinanta, qui korelatas a plura sorti di propozicioni koordinita (2): - konjuncioni koordinanta KOPULIVA(e, nek...) ... il ganas, ed el spensas ... me ne savas, nek volas savar - konjuncioni koordinanta KOPULIVA/ADJUNTIVA (ultre to, pluse...) ... el es bela; ultre to el es anke richa - konjuncioni koordinanta KOPULIVA/DIMINUTIVA (ne mem...) ... me ne skribis a lu; me ne mem intencas skribar future - konjuncioni koordinanta DESJUNTIVA (o, od...) ... tu obediez o tu esos punisata - konjuncioni koordinanta EXPLIKIVA (nam, to esas, altra-vorte...) ... el ne partoprenis; nam el ne amas la festi ... tu iros a l'inferno; to esas, tu brulos por l'eterneso - konjuncioni koordinanta OPOZIVA/SUBSTITUCIVA (ma, tamen, nihilomine*, malgre to, cetere, vice...) ... me deziras facar to, ma timas la konsequi ... l'exameno es tre desfacila; me esperas nihilomine* sucesar ... tu esis nesincera; malgre to me pardonas tu ... il havas multa defekti; cetere nulu es perfekta ... me kredis ke il esis heme, vice il ekirabis - konjuncioni koordinanta ARGUMENTIVA (or, nu...) ... lu es tre habila; or homi tre habila freque sucesas - konjuncioni koordinanta KONKLUZIVA (do, pro to, konseque...) ... lo es yusta; do tu agez lo ... el deziras magreskar; pro to el manjas tre poke - konjuncioni koordinanta ANUNCIVA (yen ke...) ... ni esis vartanta nepaciente; yen ke el arivis anhelanta - konjuncioni koordinanta KORELATIVA (o... o, sive... sive, nek... nek, lore... lore, ne nur...ma anke, ...) ... o me skribos o me telefonos a tu ... sive tu volas sive tu ne volas, me iros adibe ... me nek povas, nek deziras helpar ... lore el ploras, lore el ridas ... il ne nur es habila, ma anke havas influanta sustenanti ---------- Me finas hike l'enumero, ma mea listo di konjuncioni ne pretendas esar exhaustiva. En nexta mesajo me respondos ad altra questiono da la Latinisto. ---------- (1) Gerar*: "portar sur su" kelko (vesto, shui, chapelo, juveli, korni...) Propozo en "Raporto" da Roze, pag. 82. Ampla diskuto en mea mesajo a Linguolisto, N. 568, 16 Junio 2001. (2) Angle-parolanti memoras sua precipua koordinala konjuncioni per akronimo FANBOYS: For, And, Nor, But, Or, Yet, So. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1256 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 62317 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2004 13:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2004 13:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp2alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.142) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jun 2004 13:15:26 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.50.184.119) by vsmtp2alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40DB55F2000126C2 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:13:39 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c45b80$07aaebc0$77b83252@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:18:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.216.176.142 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Respondo a Latinisto. Participo absoluta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus En Oktobro 2003, en mea mesajo 1028 "Sintaxo" a Linguolisto, me parolis pri la difero inter la konjuncioni 'quoniam' e 'nam, e pri la relati inter la propozicioni apartenanta a frazo komplexa. En Decembro 2003 me recevis Latina mesajo, di +quu yen extraktajo: <<< IDISTA NOTUS, AMICUS MEUS, ROBERT CARNAGHAN, EPISTULAM ELECTRONICAM TUAM ... DE VERBIS 'QUONIAM' ET 'NAM' ... MIHI STATIM REMISIT. NAM ROBERT SCIT ME DE REBUS GRAMMATICALIBUS, PRAECIPUE LATINIS, CORDI HABERE, ET MIHI NUNTIAVIT TE LINGUAM LATINAM COLERE ... UT VIDES, LINGUAM LATINAM QUOQUE COLO ... PRAETEREA QUAERO QUID CENSEAS DE USU LATINE ABLATIVORUM ABSOLUTORUM IN TABULA TUA. INTEREA TE QUAM OPTIME VALERE JUBEO. >>> [Traduko. - Konocata Idisto, mea amiko, Robert Carnaghan sendis a me tua elektronikala letro...pri vorti 'quoniam' e 'nam'. Nam Robert savas ke me prizas kozi gramatikala, precipue Latina, e raportis a me ke tu kultivas la Latina... quale tu vidas, anke me kultivas la Latina...ultre to me questionas quon tu pensas pri Latina uzo dil ablativo absoluta, en tua tabelo. Dume me salutas tu. ] Mea respondo a l'afabla Latinisto, kaze ke il lektos ca mesajo: QUANQUAM PROFECTO IN LATINIS PROLATIONIBUS SAEPE DELECTOR, EGO VERUM LINGUAM LATINAM ASSIDUE NON COLO, VEL POTIUS PLANE NON AMPLIUS COLO, INDE A MEA IUVENTUTE. LATINE DIDICI TEMPORIBUS ILLIS, CUM PER LONGOS ANNOS AD EAS RES, QUAE TUM IN SCHOLA PRAECIPIEBANTUR, PRORSUS INCUBUI. MAGNAM AUTEM PARTEM MEI LATINI SERMONIS POSTEA OBLITUS SUM. ME TAMEN NON FRUSTRA LATINE DIDICISSE PUTO. PLURIMA ME SERMO LATINUS DOCUIT. MULTIS POST ANNIS, HODIE EPISTULAE TUAE RESPONDENS, ALIQUID LATINE, MAGNA CUM OBLECTATIONE ANIMI, RURSUS IPSE COMPOSUI. QUODAM MODO "AEVUM REMEAVI PERACTUM" (1), VIDELICET VIRIDIS IUVENTUTIS ODOREM ITERUM SENSI SUAVEM. NUNC QUIDEM SATIS EST: "CLAUDITE IAM RIVOS, PUERI, SAT PRATA BIBERUNT" (2). DE HAC RE, "VERBUM NON AMPLIUS ADDAM" (1). VALEAS. [Traduko. - Quankam certe me freque amuzesas per Latina citaji, advere me ne kultivas asidue la Latina, o plu bone me ne plus kultivas ol, de mea yuneso. Me lernis la Latina ta-tempe, kande me ya studiis ol dum longa yari ye skolo. Ma pose me obliviis granda parto di mea Latina. Tamen me kredas ke me ne vane lernis ta linguo. La Latina docis a me multega kozi. Pos multa yari, me hodie, respondante a tua letro, itere kompozis ipse kelko Latine, kun granda plezuro. Kelk-maniere, me rivivis pasinta vivo, t.e. me itere sentis l'odoro dil fresha yuneso. Nun satesez pri to: "klozez la rivereti, servanti, la prati sat imbibesis". Pri ca kozo, me ne plus adjuntos vorti. Saluti.] ---------- "Ablativo absoluta" es Latina gramatikala konstrukto, formacita tipale (3) per "substantivo + participo (prezenta o pasinta)", amba ye kazo ablativa (4). Ablativo absoluta povas konsideresar kom propoziciono sekundara, gramatike desligita (absoluta) de la propoziciono primara (chefa), t.e. sen gramatikala liguri inter li: - la subjekto dil ablativo absoluta diferas de la subjekto dil propoziciono primara; - en la propoziciono primara ne es pronomo relatanta la subjekto dil ablativo absoluta. Do ablativo absoluta equivalas propoziciono subordinita, kun valoro tempala, kauzala, koncesiva, kondicionala, hipotezala... - kun valoro tempala: REGIBUS EXTERMINATIS, libertas in re publica constituta est [forpulsite la reji (pos ke la reji esis forpulsata), libereso establisesis en la republiko] - kun valoro tempala-hipotezala: BOREA FLANTE, ne arato [Borea suflante (se/kande Borea suflas), ne plugez] - kun valoro kauzala: Rettuli me, TE HORTANTE, ad ea studia [me rivenis, tu exhortante (pro ke tu exhortis me) ad ita studii] - kun valoro kondicionala: DIIS IUVANTIBUS, erimus brevi tempore liberi [la dei favorante (se nur la dei es favoroza) ni esos balde libera] ---------- Multa lingui naturala havas konstrukti analoga a l'ablativo absoluta Latina. En la Greka antiqua existas kom analogo la "genitivo absoluta": KYROY BASILEYONTOS tayt' egeneto [Cyrus regnante (dum ke regnis Cyrus) to eventis] Proykhoresan OYDENOS KOLYONTOS [li avancis, nulu rezistante (sen ke ulu rezistis)] En Angla, Franca, Hispana, Italiana (5) existas, supozeble kom heredajo, la "participo absoluta". Angla: ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, it's not a bad idea [omno konsiderite, to ne es mala ideo] THE ROADS CLEARED OF SNOW, I left the house [la stradi liberigite de la nivo, me livis la domo] Franca: LA PLUIE CESS�E, je pus sortir [la pluvo cesinte, me povis ekirar] TOUT BIEN CONSID�R�, le r�sultat est satisfaisant [omno bone konsiderite, la rezulto es satisfacanta] Hispana: TERMINADO EL TRABAJO, se debe ordenar el material usado [finite la laboro, on devas ordinar la materiajo uzita] MUERTO EL PERRO, se acab� la rabia [la hundo mortinte, cesis la rabio - proverbo -] Italiana: ASSEGNATA CIASCUNA MANSIONE, il gruppo cominci� il lavoro [asignite singla tasko, la grupo komencis la laboro] AVUTA LA GRAZIA, gabbato � lo santo [obtenite la favoro, eskrokata es la santo - proverbo -] Ank en Ido la konstrukto dil participo absoluta posiblesas: LA ENEMIKI FUGINTE, nia soldati okupis l'urbo LA SUNO DESAPARINTE, la stranjero forkavalkis DONITE TRI PUNTI ne enlineigita, existas cirklo pasanta tra omna tri DONITE ICA STANDO DIL KOZI... AUDITE LA TESTI... (KGD 113). ---------- (1) Horatius. (2) Vergilius. (3) Me ne-egardas hike altra manieri formacar ablativo absoluta: "substantivo + substantivo" e.c.... (4) En linguistiko "kazo" es aspekto di nomo, di +quu la desinenco varias segun lua partikulara funciono sintaxala. Altra-vorte lingui havanta gramatikala kazi (quale la Latina) +flexionas la nomo per partikulara desinenco, segun la rolo dil nomo en la frazo. (5) Se me ne eroras, en la Germana la participo absoluta es preske nekonocata, ecepte poka kristaligita expresuri, quala NEBENBEI GESAGT [incidente dicite], ABGESEHEN DAVON [abstraktite to]... ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1257 Return-Path: X-Sender: jeancassignol@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61021 invoked from network); 29 Jun 2004 07:29:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jun 2004 07:29:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mwinf1004.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.21) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jun 2004 07:29:12 -0000 Received: from arno (APlessis-Bouchard-106-1-2-230.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.252.230]) by mwinf1004.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 7F0161800081; Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:28:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <022b01c45dab$50d03670$e6fc0d50@arno> To: , , , Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 09:33:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.21 From: "Jean Cassignol" Subject: Muzikal lexiko Ido-Franca - Litero K X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=122405710 X-Yahoo-Profile: cassignoljean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara samideani, Yen la litero K qua korespondas a la franca C. Me ne plu s= endos la adjunturi e korektiguri qui esos omni en la "kompleta" lexiko del = propozita vorti. Amikal saluti. Jean Cassignol K kakofoni.o cacophon= ie kakofoni.oz.a cacophonique kanel.o sillon (disque vinyle) kanon.o can= on kanson.o chanson kantabil.e cantabile (adverbe) kant.aj.o morceau des= tin=E9 =E0 =EAtre chant=E9, chant, chanson kant.ar chanter kant.ar [ulo] = chanter [qqch.] kantat.o cantate kant.er.o chanteur ou chanteuse non prof= essionnel(le) kantik.o cantique kantilen.o cantil=E8ne (m=E9lodie) kant.i= st.in.o cantatrice kant.ist.o chanteur ou chanteuse professionnel(le) kan= tor.o chanteur, chantre, cantor kapel.o chapelle kap.o-voc.o voix de t= =EAte karilion.er.o joueur ou joueuse non professionnel(le) de carillon ka= rilion.ist.o joueur ou joueuse professionnel(le) de carillon karilion.o (= =3D klosh.ar.o) carillon kastanyet.o castagnette kavatin.o cavatine (pi= =E8ce vocale ou instrumentale) kintet.o quintette klarinet.er.o clarinett= iste non professionel(le) klarinet.ist.o clarinettiste professionel(le) = klarinet.o clarinette (instrument) klarion.er.o clairon (musicien non pro= fessionnel) klarion.ist.o clairon (musicien professionnel) klarion.o clai= ron (instrument) klasik.ism.o classicisme klav.ar.o clavier (oiano, etc.)= klavicembal.er.o claveciniste non professionnel(le) (=3D klavicen.er.o) = klavicembal.ist.o claveciniste professionnel(le) (=3D klavicen.ist.o) klav= icembal.o (=3D klavicen.o) clavecin (instrument) klavicen.er.o clavecinis= te non professionnel(le) (=3D klavicembal.er.o) klavicen.ist.o clavecinist= e professionnel(le) (=3D klavicembal.ist.o) klavicen.o (=3D klavicembal.o) = clavecin (instrument) klavikord.er.o joueur ou joueuse non professionnel(l= e) de clavicorde klavikord.ist.o joueur ou joueuse professionnel(le) de cl= avicorde klavikord.o clavicorde (instrument) klav.o cl=E9 (d'instrument = =E0 vent), touche (de piano, etc.) klef.o clef (de sol, etc.) klosh-ari.o = carillon (air jou=E9 sur un carillon) klosh.ar.o (=3D karilion.o) carillo= n klosh.ar-ple.er.o joueur ou joueuse non professionnel(le) de carillon (= =3D karilion.er.o) klosh.ar-ple.ist.o joueur ou joueuse professionnel(le) = de carillon (=3D karilion.ist.o) klosh-ple.ad.o jeu de cloches (action) k= losh-ple.er.o sonneur ou sonneuse non professionnel(le) de cloches =E0 mai= n (hand-bells) klosh-ple.ist.o sonneur ou sonneuse professionnel(le) de cl= oches =E0 main (hand-bells) klosh-ple.o jeu de cloches (action) klosh-ple.= ur.o jeu de cloches (r=E9sultat) kolofon.o colophane koma.o comma kompoz= .ad.o composition (action) kompoz.ar composer kompoz.ar [ulo] composer [q= qch.] kompoz.er.o compositeur ou compositrice non professionnel(le) kompoz= .ist.o compositeur ou compositrice professionnel(le) kompoz.o composition = (action) kompoz.ur.o composition (r=E9sultat) koncert.aj.o morceau de con= cert koncert.ar faire un concert, donner un concert koncert.ey.o salle de= concert koncert-kaf.ey.o caf=E9-concert koncert.o concert konchert.o ? = concerto konsonanc.ad.o consonance (action) konsonanc.ar produire une con= sonance, =EAtre form=E9 de consonances konsonanc.o consonance (action) kon= sonanc.ur.o consonance (r=E9sultat) kontr.alt.er.o contralto non professi= onnelle kontr.alt.ist.o contralto professionnelle kontr.alt.o contralto (= chanteuse) kontr.alt.o contralto (voix) (=3D kontr.alt.o-voc.o) kontr.alt.= o-voc.o contralto (voix) (=3D kontr.alt.o) kontra.bas.er.o contrebassiste= ou bassiste non professionnel(le) kontra.bas.ist.o contrebassiste ou bass= iste professionnel(le) kontra.bas.o contrebasse (instrument) kontra.dans.o= contredanse kontra.fagot.er.o contrebassoniste non professionnel(le) kon= tra.fagot.ist.o contrebassoniste professionnel(le) kontra.fagot.o contreb= asson (instrument) kontra.punt.al.a contrapuntique ou contrapontique kontr= a.punt.er.o contrapuntiste ou contrapontiste non professionnel(le) kontra.= punt.ist.o contrapuntiste ou contrapontiste professionnel(le) kontra.punt.= o contrepoint kontre.temp.e =E0 contretemps kontre.temp.o contretemps (n= om) kor.al.a choral (adjectif) kor.an.o membre d'une chorale, choriste ko= r-ari.o choral (chant religieux) kord.o corde kord-instrument.er.o instr= umentiste =E0 cordes non professionnel(le) kord-instrument.ist.o instrumen= tiste =E0 cordes professionnel(le) kord-instrument.o instrument =E0 cordes= kor.er.o choriste non professionnel(le) kor.estr.o directeur de chorale,= chef de choeur kor.ist.o choriste professionnel(le) kornamuz.o cornemuse= (instrument) korn.er.o corniste non professionnel(le) kornet.er.o cornet= tiste non professionnel(le) kornet.ist.o cornettiste professionnel(le) kor= net.o cornet (instrument) korn.ist.o corniste professionnel(le) korn.o c= or (instrument), trompe (instrument) kor.o chorale, choeur (r=E9union de c= hanteurs) koto.o koto (instrument) krak.o-plank.o cr=E9celle kreshend.e (= =3D plu.laut.ig.ant.e) crescendo (adverbe) kreshend.o (=3D plu.laut.ig.ad.= o, plu.laut.ig.o) crescendo (nom) (action) kreskant.e (=3D plu.laut.ig.ant= .e) crescendo (adverbe) kromatik.a chromatique kun.vibr.ant.a kord.o cor= de sympathique =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [Non-text portions of this message h= ave been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1258 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53692 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 18:40:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 18:40:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.88) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 18:40:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:40:20 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.66 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 02 Jul 2004 18:40:20 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 18:40:20 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2004 18:40:20.0489 (UTC) FILETIME=[0712DF90:01C46064] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.88 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Moors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Me bezonas Ido-vorto por la populo "moors" e la adj. "Mauresque". Predanko pro via helpo! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Power corrupts, rots, destroys, curses those who impose their rules upon others. We can only explain the addictive inability of politicians to recognize this historical fact as another one of those weird and faulty wirings that incapacitate the crippled nervous systems of our species." -Timothy Leary _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1259 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61756 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2004 23:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2004 23:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2004 23:00:06 -0000 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040702230004.EFMK18369.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:00:04 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040702230003.EEUB22635.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:00:03 +1200 To: Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:00:03 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040702230003.EEUB22635.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.159 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Moors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara James, Espo. havas "mauro" (la "u" havas supersigno. do plu exakte "mawro"). La landnomi por Mauritius e Mauritania es Maurico e Mauritania, konseque "mauro, maura, maurala, mauratra" semblas apta en Ido. Tamen me ne konocas ula relato inter "mauro" e la landnomi. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2004/07/03 Sat AM 06:40:20 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] Moors > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1260 Return-Path: X-Sender: albonio@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21980 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 22:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 22:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 22:50:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2004 22:50:46 -0000 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 22:50:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 566 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "Antonio" Subject: Kemiala elementaro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150536440 X-Yahoo-Profile: albonio Saluti amiki. Che Wikipedio ni havas dubiti pri la nomi dil kemiala elementaro. Me extraktis nomi del sequanta sendajo che linguolisto: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/message/1003 Tamen, semblas existar altra plu anciena nomi segun la vortari. Ni havas debato pri la korekta nomi che Wikipedio. Quale ni devas uzor ? Kad ambi esas valida ? Voluntez regardar la sequanta artikli: Artiklo pri la kemiala elementi: http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemiala_elementi Debato pri la artiklo: http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kemiala_elementi Amikale, Antonio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1261 Return-Path: X-Sender: tejonrubial@usuarios.retecal.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10547 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 23:14:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2004 23:14:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO viriato1.servicios.retecal.es) (212.89.0.44) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2004 23:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 27451 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2004 23:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fernando) ([212.183.199.42]) (envelope-sender ) by 0 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Jul 2004 23:14:51 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c4621c$a6abcda0$2ac7b7d4@usuarios.retecal.es> To: References: Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:14:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.89.0.44 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Tej=F3n?= Subject: Re: [linguo] Kemiala elementaro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=142839117 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara Antonio La anciena nomi (e simboli) esas propozo da Nobel-premiizita kemiisto W. Ostwald. La nomi propozita en la mesajo 1003 di Idolisto da sioro Richard Stevenson esas, meaopinione (me esas kemiisto), tote korekta por la moderna uzado. Me esperas balda decido linguala oficala pri ta afero, ma voluntez uzar la moderna nomi til la oficala decido. Amikale Fernando Tej�n ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio" To: Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 12:50 AM Subject: [linguo] Kemiala elementaro > Saluti amiki. > > Che Wikipedio ni havas dubiti pri la nomi dil kemiala elementaro. Me > extraktis nomi del sequanta sendajo che linguolisto: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/message/1003 > > Tamen, semblas existar altra plu anciena nomi segun la vortari. Ni > havas debato pri la korekta nomi che Wikipedio. Quale ni devas > uzor ? Kad ambi esas valida ? Voluntez regardar la sequanta artikli: > > Artiklo pri la kemiala elementi: > http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemiala_elementi > Debato pri la artiklo: > http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kemiala_elementi > > Amikale, > > Antonio > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1262 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9018 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 03:14:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 03:14:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.58) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 03:14:21 -0000 Received: from web4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.156]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040705031421.UHKA7129.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@web4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:14:21 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040705031420.IHRM25292.web4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:14:20 +1200 To: Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:14:20 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040705031420.IHRM25292.web4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.58 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Kemiala elementaro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Fernando ed Antonio, Me es felica ke mea sugestita tabelo di Kemiala E= lementi riaparabas. L=92originala tabelo da Prof. Ostwald esis lore utila p= or kemio ma nun es kelke antiquatra o mem eroriganta. Koncize, me propozas= : (1) La tabelo da Prof. Ostwald havas kurta nomi quin on nun uzas por afix= i, exemple =93hido=94 ed =93oxo=94. Nuntempe =93hidrogeno=94 ed =93oxigeno= =94 es la aceptita nomi di l=92elementi. (2) Por metali, la finalo =93-io= =94 es plu apta (A: =93-ium=94) por Ido kam la =93-o=94 di Ostwald. (3) Ni = ne povas chanjar la element-simboli (quale Ostwald asertas) Tala simboli nu= n es internaciona e ja ni uzas simboli de antiqua lingui, exemple, Hg =3D m= erkurio (G: hydrargyrum), Au=3D oro (L: aurum). (4) Mea tabelo sugestas plu= moderna traktado, pro ke la tabelo di Ostwald ne plus suficas. Komprenend= e la DK di ULI facos la fina decido, (balde, ni esperas)! Amikale, Rich= ard Stevenson. > > From: Fernando Tej=F3n > Date: 2004/07/05 Mon AM 11:14:26 GMT+12:00 > To: > Subject: Re: [linguo] Kemiala elementaro > > [Non-text port= ions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1263 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56606 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 08:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 08:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.60) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 08:24:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:23:51 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:23:51 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:23:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2004 08:23:51.0757 (UTC) FILETIME=[674F87D0:01C46269] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.60 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: Kriketo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Linguolistani Ante kelka tempo, sro Ivan Hart sendis a me la sequanta mesajo pri kriketo-termini en Ido. Regretinde me ne havis tempo respondar, ma forsan ico esos interesanta temo por Linguolisto... >Bon matino James, quale vu standas. > >Kom australiano, me amas kriketo, tamen, me ne konocas la terminologio di >kriketo. > >Me savas ke bulo = ball, do forsan bular = "to bowl". Ka yes/no?. > >E kad la bulisto/bulero signifikas "the bowler" > >Me savas ke jetar = "to throw" e rular = "to roll along the ground." > >La gardisto dil tri-paliseti, kad es il "the wicket keeper". > >Kad esas "the pitch" la pado. > >Kad esas la kriket-turniro = "the cricket match?" > >Kad esas la areno = "the oval or ground?" > >Me savas ke batar = "to beat or strike" do, pro quo ne "kriket-batilo e >kricket-batisto?" > >Forsan la peoni = "the fielders." Ka yes/no? > >Kun predanko e kordiala saluto, me restas, Ivan Hart. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1264 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89321 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 08:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 08:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.54) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 08:26:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:26:31 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:26:31 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:26:31 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2004 08:26:31.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[C67DAE30:01C46269] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.54 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] Moors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Richard Danko pro vua helpo. Me ofte oblivias konsultar mea Esp-vortaro, ma Esp povas esar bona fonto di nova vorti en Ido. Me konkordas kun vu ke Maur/o es la maxim bona propozo. Tale anke Maur/ana, Maur/ala (A. Moorish, Moresque, Mauresque). Linguala saluti. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 >From: >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [linguo] Moors >Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:00:03 +1200 > >Kara James, >Espo. havas "mauro" (la "u" havas supersigno. do plu >exakte "mawro"). La landnomi por Mauritius e Mauritania >es Maurico e Mauritania, konseque "mauro, maura, maurala, >mauratra" semblas apta en Ido. Tamen me ne konocas ula >relato inter "mauro" e la landnomi. >Amikale, Richard S. > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > Date: 2004/07/03 Sat AM 06:40:20 GMT+12:00 > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [linguo] Moors > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1265 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65704 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2004 08:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2004 08:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.69) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2004 08:32:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:32:18 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:32:18 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:32:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jul 2004 08:32:18.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[95738D90:01C4626A] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.69 From: "James Chandler" Subject: manot/izar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Recente eventis debato inter me e Hans St. per privata eposto pri la maxim bona tradukuro en Ido dil angla verbo "to handcuff". La sb-o en Ido es manot/o, e Dyer ofras manot/izar o manot/agar kom posiblesi. Me selektis manot/izar, ma Hans preferis manot/agar. Ka la Linguolistani havas opiniono pri ca questiono? (Ni pridiskutis mea artiklo 'La Kraso dil Tero' quon me sendis a Hans por Progreso.) Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1266 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86526 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 00:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 00:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13305.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 00:52:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20040706005227.90720.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.86.78] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 02:52:27 CEST Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 02:52:27 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.41 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Partaka?= Subject: "mauri e kristani" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, James e Richard! Ultre omno skribita hike ta-relate, me deziras adjuntar ke l' vorti "mauro e maura" ja propozesis en "Progreso" #326 ed enlistizesis da R.B. Carnaghan: videz mesajo #1148 che Linguolisto. Altralatere, ni ya relatas mauri ad islamani, tamen... olim existis grava amaso de mauri qui aceptis kristanizesar por darfar restar en Hispania. Quale ni nomizos ili? Ka same mauri? Ka kristan-mauri? Ka mauriski? H: moro (unesma kazo), morisco (duesma kazo). Esez paco kun vi omna! P A R T A K A ===== Nova forumo IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN:http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1267 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49175 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2004 21:34:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2004 21:34:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ak.mx.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.26) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2004 21:34:52 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ak.mx.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.15) id i66LYpaJ010799 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:34:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 17:32:28 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200407061733_MC3-1-8607-C8FE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.26 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] "mauri e kristani" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Segun mea kompreno, la Angla vorto "Moor" (Latine Maurus, Ide *Mauro) signifikas precipue habitanto di parto di nord Afrika, di qua la religio esis un aspekto. Evidente en Hispania ta aspekto havis rolo tre importanta. Se me memoras bone, la Hispana linguo havas anke vorto por Judo konvertita a Kristanismo. Probable en la kuntexto di Hispana historio, tala vorti (Morisco e ...?) esas ya utila, ma se en altra lingui Europana ne existas equivalanti me opinionas ke ni ne bezonas li en Ido. Robert. Partaka skribis: >Altralatere, ni ya relatas mauri ad islamani, tamen... olim existis grava amaso de mauri qui aceptis kristanizesar por darfar restar en Hispania. Quale ni nomizos ili? Ka same mauri? Ka kristan-mauri? Ka mauriski? H: moro (unesma kazo), morisco (duesma kazo). Esez paco kun vi omna! P A R T A K A < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1268 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 55836 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 14:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 14:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 14:19:04 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.48.246.233) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40EC22E10000B4EF for linguolisto@egroups.com; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:18:12 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c464f7$14730b00$e9f63052@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:23:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.216.176.144 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Manoto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Skribis James Chandler: <<< Recente eventis debato inter me e Hans St. pri la maxim bona tradukuro en Ido dil angla verbo "to handcuff". La sb-o en Ido es manot/o, e Dyer ofras manot/izar o manot/agar kom posiblesi. Me selektis manot/izar, ma Hans preferis manot/agar. Ka la Linguolistani havas opiniono pri ca questiono? J.C. >>> GRAMATIKALE Me opinionas ke, por tradukar Angla verbo "to handcuff", plura derivi e kompozi es admisebla: # manot-izar # # manot-agar # # manot-ligar # # manot-uzar # SENTALE "Manot-agar" es tre Ido-konforma, ma sat stranja e pezoza, quale omna derivi per -agar (bastonagar, martelagar, frenagar...). "Manot-izar" es plu bone sonanta, plu agreabla e lejera (un-vorte plu naturala). La senco dil sufixo -iz es maxim ofte, quankam ne necese, amelioriva, profitigiva, garnisiva ... por la persono o kozo -izita (butrizar, kronizar, nomizar, parfumizar, kolorizar...). Kontraste, en "manotiz-ar" la senco es detrimentiva por la persono -izita. To povus unesma-sente kelke perplexigar. ["Manot-izar" povas esar avantajiziva en frazi quala "la policani es armizita e manotizita (provizita per armi e manoti) por arestar la kriminanti".] DOKUMENTALE Ye lo maxim bona di mea savo, du precipua formi okuras* en gramatiki e vortari: "manot-izar" e "manot-ligar". Prenante "kateno" kom vorto analoga a "manoto" on trovas: en Dyer: manot-izar, manot-ligar; katen-izar, katen-ligar en Beaufront-Couturat: katen-izar, katen-ligar en Feder: manot-izar; katen-izar, katen-ligar en Lusana: katen-izar. PERSONALE Me ne havas aprioriala prefero. Me kredas ke on povas profitar de ca richeso dil linguo. Altra-vorte, me kredas ke existas nuanci di senco inter la quar supera derivi/kompozi, e ke on povas decidar singlafoye qua formo uzar, segun la cirkonstanci. EXEMPLE La policani quik manotagis la viro prenita en flagranta delikto [emfazo sur la quika ago]. Violentozi manotligita divenas plu facile manuagebla [emfazo sur l'impedeso]. La judiciisti manotuzas la homi tro facile [acentizo dil kritikebla kustumo]. La televiziono montris tri viri manotizita [saliigo dil videbla stando]. ---------- Incidente, quo es "sb-o"? ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1269 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29825 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 15:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 15:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 15:07:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:06:18 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:06:18 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 15:06:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2004 15:06:18.0605 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F3161D0:01C464FD] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.52 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Manoto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara sro Nardini Danko pro vua ampla respondo pri ca temo. Segun Hans, manot/izar signifikas prefere "provizar per manoti", exemple policani. Pro to il preferis manot/agar. manot/ligar es anke posibla. sb-o es abreviuro di substantivo. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page � FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1270 Return-Path: X-Sender: albonio@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52713 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2004 21:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2004 21:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2004 21:24:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.139] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jul 2004 21:24:46 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 21:24:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1218 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "Antonio" Subject: Plusa kemiala dubiti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150536440 X-Yahoo-Profile: albonio Saluti. Per la kemiala elementaro, me konstruktis che Wikipedio tabelo pe= riodala. Ol esas videbla ye: http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodala_ta= belo_dil_elementaro Ma me havas dubiti pri ula vorti pri qui me volus deba= tar. Li esas: - A: Alkali H: Alcalinos Ido: Alkalin= i ? - A: Alkaline earths H: Alcalino-terreos Ido: Alkalin-teri ? = - A: Lanthanide H: Lant=E1nidos Ido: Lantanidi ? - A: Ac= tinides H: Act=EDnidos Ido: Aktiniidi ? - A: Transition= metals H: Metales de transicion Ido: Transitala metali ? - A: Poo= r metals H: Metales del bloque p Ido: Povra metali ? - A: M= etalloids H: Metaloides Ido: Metalidi ? - A: Nonmetals = H: No metales Ido: Ne-metali ? - A: Halogens H: = Halogenos Ido: Halogeni ? - A: Noble gases H: Gases noble= s Ido: Nobela gasi ? - A: Unununium H: Unununio Id= o: Unununio ? - A: Ununbium H: Ununbio Ido: Ununbio = ? - A: Ununtrium H: Ununtrio Ido: Ununtrio ? . = . . Quon vi opinionas pri ica nomi ? Amikale, = Antonio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1271 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94797 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2004 03:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jul 2004 03:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jul 2004 03:27:44 -0000 Received: from web4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040709032719.ZJAP18369.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@web4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:27:19 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040709032719.KJKE25292.web4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:27:19 +1200 To: Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:27:18 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040709032719.KJKE25292.web4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.159 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Plusa kemiala dubiti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar Antonio, Me gratulas vu pro la ecelanta Tabelo di Elementi en =93Wikipe= dia=94. Me respondas a dubiti: (1) Segun la dicionario di Angla-Ido da Dyer= : A: alkali; Ido: alkalio. A: metalloid; Ido: metaloido. (2) Tamen me kr= edas ke A: alkaline; Ido: alkaliala, Do: A: alkaline earths, Ido: alkali-t= eri, o alkaliala teri. (Ma la termino nun es kelke antiquatra e Grupo II = es plu bona). La termino A: =93poor metals=94 on ne uzas en Angla. Vice ni= uzas =93alkali metals=94 o =93Group I metals=94. Do: A: alkali metals; Id= o: alkali-metali o alkaliala metali (Ma es anke kelke antiquatra. Grupo I= es plu bona.) Forsan, en Ido, =93lanthanide=94 es plu bona quale =93lanta= naro=94, t.e. lantano-grupo. Simile, =93actinide=94 quale =93aktiniaro=94, = t.e. aktinio-grupo. (3) L=92altra termini quin vu uzas semblas justa ed ap= ta. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Antonio" > Date: 2004/07/09 Fri AM 09:24:45 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoo= groups.com > Subject: [linguo] Plusa kemiala dubiti > > [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1272 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 25771 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2004 21:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jul 2004 21:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp3alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jul 2004 21:22:27 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.48.247.17) by vsmtp3alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 40CF29DA00202CD5 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:22:16 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c466c4$a8892580$11f73052@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:27:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.216.176.143 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Amikeso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Skribis Adri�n Pastrana che Idolisto: <<< Me bezonas via helpo por tradukar ad Ido l'Angla proverbo:"a friend in need is a friend indeed" A.P. >>>. Unesme, justa lektado dil proverbo es segun me: "amiko, +quu helpas tu en kazo di tua bezono, es ya vera amiko". Alternativa lektado, quale facita da ula respondanti, es desfacile tenebla: "amiko, +quu bezonas tua helpo, es ya vera amiko (lu kondutas ya quale granda amiko, skope obtenar tua helpo -?-). Altra-vorte, segun me, ne l'amiko es "indijanta" o "bezonanta", ma tu es tala; ne tu devas helpar, ma l'amiko devus. Ca interpreto es konforma ad Angla varianto dil proverbo, kai* a la sama proverbo en le AFGHIRL. # Angla varianto dil proverbo es: "a friend in need is a friend in deed": vera amiko, kande onu es en la bezono, helpas per agado [ne per bruisoza vorti]. # En la Franca on dicas: "c'est dans le besoin qu'on connait ses amis": to es en la bezono, ke on konocas onua amiki. # En la Germana on rimifas: "Freunde in der Not gehen tausend auf ein Lot": amiki en kazo di bezono es (tam poka kam) un sur mil. # En l'Hispana on rimifas anke: "en la necesidad, se conoce la amistad": en la bezono on konocas l'amikeso. # En l'Italiana, la proverbo iras: "gli amici si conoscono nel bisogno": amiki konocesas en la bezono. # En la Rusa, sama es la dicuro: "druzya poznayutsya v byedye": amiki konocesas en la desfortunaji. # En la Latina esis: "amicus certa in re incerta cernitur" [Cicero]: amiko certa dicernesas en la desfacila situesi. ---------- Finante, yen rimifanta propoza traduko: "EN LA DITRESO ON DICERNAS L'AMIKESO". ---------- Me lektas last-instante, che Idolisto, la precizigo da Robert Carnaghan, konfirmanta mea interpreto. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1273 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83204 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 00:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 00:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 00:50:50 -0000 Received: from user (pad-55.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.55]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CF3931A51 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:50:49 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <000d01c466e1$17d92cc0$1b12070a@user> To: References: <000501c466c4$a8892580$11f73052@nardinic> Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:50:42 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.196.28.8 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] Amikeso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Kara s-ro. Nardini, Vu esas tote korekta pri la justa lektado dil proverbo Me mis-tradukis ol, sen-dube, pro ne-atencema e ne-justifikebla hasto. Amikala saluti, Herder ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Nardini" To: "Linguolisto" Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: [linguo] Amikeso > > Skribis Adri�n Pastrana che Idolisto: > > <<< Me bezonas via helpo por tradukar ad Ido l'Angla proverbo:"a friend > in need is a friend indeed" A.P. >>>. > > Unesme, justa lektado dil proverbo es segun me: > "amiko, +quu helpas tu en kazo di tua bezono, es ya vera amiko". > > Alternativa lektado, quale facita da ula respondanti, es desfacile tenebla: > "amiko, +quu bezonas tua helpo, es ya vera amiko (lu kondutas ya quale > granda amiko, skope obtenar tua helpo -?-). > > Altra-vorte, segun me, ne l'amiko es "indijanta" o "bezonanta", ma tu es > tala; ne tu devas helpar, ma l'amiko devus. > Ca interpreto es konforma ad Angla varianto dil proverbo, kai* a la sama > proverbo en le AFGHIRL. > > > # Angla varianto dil proverbo es: > "a friend in need is a friend in deed": vera amiko, kande onu es en la > bezono, helpas per agado [ne per bruisoza vorti]. > > # En la Franca on dicas: > "c'est dans le besoin qu'on connait ses amis": to es en la bezono, ke on > konocas onua amiki. > > # En la Germana on rimifas: > "Freunde in der Not gehen tausend auf ein Lot": amiki en kazo di bezono es > (tam poka kam) un sur mil. > > # En l'Hispana on rimifas anke: > "en la necesidad, se conoce la amistad": en la bezono on konocas l'amikeso. > > # En l'Italiana, la proverbo iras: > "gli amici si conoscono nel bisogno": amiki konocesas en la bezono. > > # En la Rusa, sama es la dicuro: > "druzya poznayutsya v byedye": amiki konocesas en la desfortunaji. > > # En la Latina esis: > "amicus certa in re incerta cernitur" [Cicero]: amiko certa dicernesas en la > desfacila situesi. > > ---------- > > Finante, yen rimifanta propoza traduko: > > "EN LA DITRESO ON DICERNAS L'AMIKESO". > > ---------- > > Me lektas last-instante, che Idolisto, la precizigo da Robert Carnaghan, > konfirmanta mea interpreto. > > ---------- > > Carlo Nardini > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1274 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53636 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 10:49:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 10:49:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 10:49:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 03:49:27 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:49:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:49:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2004 10:49:27.0675 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCCD54B0:01C46734] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.52 From: "James Chandler" Subject: sekoyo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Me devas explikar pri vorto neoficala, quan me uzas en la texto 'La Senarboreyo en la Foresto'. *sekoyo - speco di giganta konifera arboro quo kreskas en Oregon e Kalifornia (Usa) o la ligno de ta arboro. Altra nomi: sequoia, Sequoia sempervirens Esp: sekojo [de ube me cherpis la propozata Ido-formo] Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1275 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80942 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 11:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 11:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 11:11:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.249] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2004 11:11:49 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:11:49 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 233 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.78 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Nomo por ucelo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Amiki Me bezonas vorto por un ucelo. Ka vu savas Idala vorto? Ol nomesas Latine "Aythya" ("A. ferina" od "A. fuligula"), Germane "Tauchente", Angle un speco "Common pochard", altru "Tufted duck". Salutante "quak" Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1276 Return-Path: X-Sender: H.Stuifbergen@rijksmuseum.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14072 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 11:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 11:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrelay1.kpn.net) (194.151.226.98) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 11:11:50 -0000 Received: from [194.151.172.5] (helo=rijksmuseum.intra) by mailrelay1.kpn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1BjcFK-0007Qm-00; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:11:50 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:01:40 +0200 Message-ID: <606403C4DC07D94489297EF8F9A8867E0A9060@amsterdam1-04.rijksmuseum.intra> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ido] sekoyo* thread-index: AcRnNL8APQeqfWv1QB6lbCSdbD0UrgAATVfQ To: Cc: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.151.226.98 From: "Hans Stuifbergen" Subject: RE: [ido] sekoyo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77439844 X-Yahoo-Profile: hstuifbergen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara James, Pro quo ne simple: sequoya, quo es segun la pronunco, o pro quo ne simple segun olua ortografio Latina: sequia? (Merkez ke la Nederlandana on pronuncas quale skribit en Ido: se-quo-ya e ne se-ko-yo) Saluti amikala, Hans St. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: James Chandler [mailto:idojc@hotmail.com] Verzonden: zondag 11 juli 2004 12:49 Aan: idolisto@yahoogroups.com CC: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [ido] sekoyo* Kar amiki Me devas explikar pri vorto neoficala, quan me uzas en la texto 'La Senarboreyo en la Foresto'. *sekoyo - speco di giganta konifera arboro quo kreskas en Oregon e Kalifornia (Usa) o la ligno de ta arboro. Altra nomi: sequoia, Sequoia sempervirens Esp: sekojo [de ube me cherpis la propozata Ido-formo] Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger PARTOPRENEZ L' INTERNACIONA IDO-RENKONTRO EN KIYIV (KIEV), UKRAINIA, 16 JULIO - 23 JULIO 2004! Plusa informi ed anuncformularo esas trovebla ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Ukrainia/Idorenkontro2004 Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! http://www.ido.li Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: idolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1277 Return-Path: X-Sender: H.Stuifbergen@rijksmuseum.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68585 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 11:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 11:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrelay1.kpn.net) (194.151.226.98) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 11:24:51 -0000 Received: from [194.151.172.5] (helo=rijksmuseum.intra) by mailrelay1.kpn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1BjcRu-0000cW-02; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:24:50 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:15:47 +0200 Message-ID: <606403C4DC07D94489297EF8F9A8867E0A9062@amsterdam1-04.rijksmuseum.intra> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ido] sekoyo* thread-index: AcRnNL8APQeqfWv1QB6lbCSdbD0UrgAATVfQAACXRvA= To: Cc: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.151.226.98 From: "Hans Stuifbergen" Subject: RE: [ido] sekoyo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77439844 X-Yahoo-Profile: hstuifbergen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pardonez, me: ne 'sequia' ma 'sequoia'. Saluti Hans St. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Hans Stuifbergen [mailto:h.stuifbergen@rijksmuseum.nl] Verzonden: zondag 11 juli 2004 13:02 Aan: idolisto@yahoogroups.com CC: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: RE: [ido] sekoyo* Kara James, Pro quo ne simple: sequoya, quo es segun la pronunco, o pro quo ne simple segun olua ortografio Latina: sequia? (Merkez ke la Nederlandana on pronuncas quale skribit en Ido: se-quo-ya e ne se-ko-yo) Saluti amikala, Hans St. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: James Chandler [mailto:idojc@hotmail.com] Verzonden: zondag 11 juli 2004 12:49 Aan: idolisto@yahoogroups.com CC: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [ido] sekoyo* Kar amiki Me devas explikar pri vorto neoficala, quan me uzas en la texto 'La Senarboreyo en la Foresto'. *sekoyo - speco di giganta konifera arboro quo kreskas en Oregon e Kalifornia (Usa) o la ligno de ta arboro. Altra nomi: sequoia, Sequoia sempervirens Esp: sekojo [de ube me cherpis la propozata Ido-formo] Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger PARTOPRENEZ L' INTERNACIONA IDO-RENKONTRO EN KIYIV (KIEV), UKRAINIA, 16 JULIO - 23 JULIO 2004! Plusa informi ed anuncformularo esas trovebla ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Ukrainia/Idorenkontro2004 Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! http://www.ido.li PARTOPRENEZ L' INTERNACIONA IDO-RENKONTRO EN KIYIV (KIEV), UKRAINIA, 16 JULIO - 23 JULIO 2004! Plusa informi ed anuncformularo esas trovebla ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Ukrainia/Idorenkontro2004 Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! http://www.ido.li Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: idolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1278 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57170 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 11:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 11:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 11:35:49 -0000 Received: from pbncomputer (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F33153C3C for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:35:47 +0200 (CEST) To: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:35:05 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: RE: [linguo] Nomo por ucelo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Arto, Aythya Fuligula = Tuf-anado Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn (Wikipedio-user: Vaganto) Heemskerk - Nederlando -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Arto Moisio [mailto:artomo@jippii.fi] Verzonden: zondag 11 juli 2004 13:12 Aan: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [linguo] Nomo por ucelo Kar Amiki Me bezonas vorto por un ucelo. Ka vu savas Idala vorto? Ol nomesas Latine "Aythya" ("A. ferina" od "A. fuligula"), Germane "Tauchente", Angle un speco "Common pochard", altru "Tufted duck". Salutante "quak" Arto Moisio Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 5-7-04 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1279 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58229 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 11:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 11:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.90) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 11:36:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 04:36:14 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.34 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:36:14 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 11:36:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2004 11:36:14.0616 (UTC) FILETIME=[45DE8980:01C4673B] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.90 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] sekoyo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Hans Yes, *sequoyo e *sequoio es altra posibla formi. Me preferas *sekoyo o *sequoyo, pro foyo ec. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home Selling weapons since '86 to Iraq, and I wondered about that. During the Persian Gulf War, those intelligence reports before it all started: "Oh, Iraq, they have incredible weapons, incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Well ... we looked at the receipt ... but as soon as that cheque clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine ... for God 'n' country 'n' ... here's a flag. Whatever symbol y'all need. Let's go! Come on, we're killing sand niggers. Let's go!" - Bill Hicks, at the Oxford Playhouse, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1280 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8016 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2004 23:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2004 23:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2004 23:12:33 -0000 Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040711231232.VHIS18369.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:12:32 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040711231231.KTLC1366.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:12:31 +1200 To: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:12:31 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040711231231.KTLC1366.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.159 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] sekoyo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara James ed amiki, La vorto "sequoyo" ja existas en Ido (Dyer, Angla-Ido pag, 299). Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2004/07/11 Sun PM 10:49:27 GMT+12:00 > To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com > CC: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] sekoyo* > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1281 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75188 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 00:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 00:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13307.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 00:18:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20040712001850.3726.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.84.33] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:18:50 CEST Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:18:50 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.43 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Partaka?= Subject: Mea voto por 'sequoyo' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, linguolistani! Me konsideras ke cakaze, ni nule bezonas uzar la sama vorto kam Esperanto. Me ne savas ma me konjektas ke l' vorto maxim natural por l'Esperantisti esabus "sekvojo" ("akvo, kvar, Ekvador", edc), tamen, forsan on refuzis ol por evitar miskompreno relate du altra RADIKI tre multe komuna: "sekv/ voj/ " ("sekvi, vojo"). Pro to, mea voto es por 'sequoyo' ('sequoyal'), nam 'sequoio' ('sequoial') akumulas tro multa vokali. Ni ya mustas profitar l'avantajo darfar uzar QU vice KV Esp-al por krear vorto plu facile rikonocebla. Me vartas vi omna apud la 'sequoyo'! P A R T A K A ===== Nova forumo IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN:http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1282 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18864 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 16:55:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 16:55:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.87) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 16:55:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:55:00 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.74 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:55:00 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:55:00 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jul 2004 16:55:00.0266 (UTC) FILETIME=[F80EE0A0:01C46830] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.87 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] sekoyo* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Richard Danko! Me ne trovis ol nam me serchis sub 'redwood'. >From: >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [linguo] sekoyo* >Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:12:31 +1200 > >Kara James ed amiki, >La vorto "sequoyo" ja existas en Ido (Dyer, Angla-Ido >pag, 299). >Amikale, Richard S. > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > Date: 2004/07/11 Sun PM 10:49:27 GMT+12:00 > > To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com > > CC: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [linguo] sekoyo* > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1283 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90718 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2004 18:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2004 18:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2004 18:58:45 -0000 Received: from pbncomputer (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A690625B9 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:58:53 +0200 (CEST) To: Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:58:02 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Nomi di Oceani X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar Amiki, Ye Wikipedio ni hezitas pri la justa nomi di la oceani cirkum la poli. Ni havas du propozi: 1) Arktika Oceano Antarktika Oceano 2) Nordala Glacio-Maro Sudala Glacio-Maro Qui esas la justa nomi, o ka forsan ambe esas apta? Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando wikipedio-uzanto:vaganto http://io.wikipedia.org/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.718 / Virus Database: 474 - Release Date: 9-7-04 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1284 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33070 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 10:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2004 10:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.57) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 10:01:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 03:01:27 -0700 Received: from 195.166.69.187 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:01:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:01:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jul 2004 10:01:27.0838 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D1C93E0:01C468C0] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.57 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Kremaco di Sorgo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Pri la ceremonio mencionita en la texto 'La Senarboreyo en la Foresto', vice 'Kremaco di Sorgo' me nun preferas 'Kremaco di Sucio'. En Ido existas plura posiblesi por tradukar l'angla vorto 'care'. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "What about Clinton? Is there any hope in Clinton?" There's no f***ing hope in that guy. They're all the same. I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. "I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs." "I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking." "Hey, wait a minute. There's one guy holding up both puppets!" "Shut up! Go back to bed, America: your government is in control. Here's Love Connection. Watch this and get fat and stupid. By the way, keep drinking beer, you f***ing morons." - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1993 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1285 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44891 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 07:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 07:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 07:33:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jul 2004 07:31:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:31:46 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 192 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Anciena alfabeto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Amiki Me havas un questiono por uzo en Wikipedio. Quale nomesas alfabeto quin anciena Goti, Germani e Vikingi uzis? Ka frazi "rurik alfabeto", "rurika skriburo" esas apta? Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1286 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70408 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2004 16:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jul 2004 16:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 2004 16:32:38 -0000 Received: from pbncomputer (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id A80A553993 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:32:34 +0200 (CEST) To: Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:31:55 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: RE: [linguo] Anciena alfabeto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Arto, - runo - runo-skribajo Rurik es la vikingo qua fondis l'unesma rusa stato. Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando wikipedio-uzanto:vaganto http://io.wikipedia.org/ -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Arto Moisio [mailto:artomo@jippii.fi] Verzonden: woensdag 14 juli 2004 9:32 Aan: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [linguo] Anciena alfabeto Kar Amiki Me havas un questiono por uzo en Wikipedio. Quale nomesas alfabeto quin anciena Goti, Germani e Vikingi uzis? Ka frazi "rurik alfabeto", "rurika skriburo" esas apta? Arto Moisio Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 12-7-04 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1287 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96214 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2004 16:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2004 16:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2004 16:13:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.140] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2004 16:12:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:12:42 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 403 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.87 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Nobel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Amiki Me skribis artikli pri Alfred Nobel e relatanta temi por Wikipedio. Kad esas apta uzar sequanta vorti / frazi? premiar = gratifikar premio = donar premio Nobel-premio Nobel-fonduro Nobel-premiarii en pacala laboro Nobel-premiarii en literaturo Nobel-premiarii en fiziko Nobel-premiarii en kemio Nobel-premiarii en medicino e fiziologio Nobel-premiarii en ekonomiko Salutante Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1288 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95577 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2004 10:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jul 2004 10:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.55) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2004 10:24:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 03:24:02 -0700 Received: from 213.166.17.13 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:24:01 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:24:01 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2004 10:24:02.0186 (UTC) FILETIME=[82D82EA0:01C46D7A] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.55 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Nobel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Arto, Me sugestas: >premiizar = donar premio >Nobel-premio >Nobel-fonduro >Nobel-premiarii en pacala laboro >Nobel-premiarii en literaturo >Nobel-premiarii en fiziko >Nobel-premiarii en kemio >Nobel-premiarii en medicino e fiziologio >Nobel-premiarii en ekonomiko o: Nobel-ganiniti, Nobel-premiiziti Ne obliviez mencionar nia pioniro Ostwald, qua ganis sua kemio-premio dum la sama yaro kam Marconi ganis la fiziko-premio. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "What about Clinton? Is there any hope in Clinton?" There's no f***ing hope in that guy. They're all the same. I'll show you politics in America. Here it is, right here. "I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs." "I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking." "Hey, wait a minute. There's one guy holding up both puppets!" "Shut up! Go back to bed, America: your government is in control. Here's Love Connection. Watch this and get fat and stupid. By the way, keep drinking beer, you f***ing morons." - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1993 _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1289 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49590 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2004 21:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2004 21:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13310.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.222) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jul 2004 21:58:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20040725215759.1479.qmail@web13310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.85.60] by web13310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:57:59 CEST Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:57:59 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.173.222 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Partaka?= Subject: Ka Festo o Festivalo? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, kara samforumani! Me deziras savar la vorto maxim justa por referar al "Festo" o "Festivalo" dil Europana Kansono. Me ipsa ja uzis l'unesma de oli, tamen, se me bone memoras, ni ja enlistizis la duesma kom nova vorto propozinda e forsan preferinda. Me pensas ke, efektive, "Festivalo" plukonkretigas l'ideo relatanta, ma olu ne necese indikas konkurenco. E ta "Festo" o "Festivalo" ya es konkurencanta. Ka ni do bezonas ul altra vorto ta-relate? Ka "Festo dil Europana Kansono"? Ka "Festivalo dil Europana Kansono"? Quon vi prisavas o prikonjektas? Me predankas por via respondo ed intereso. P A R T A K A ===== Nova forumo IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN:http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Yahoo! lanza su nueva tecnolog�a de b�squedas �te atreves a comparar? http://busquedas.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1290 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81618 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2004 21:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2004 21:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2004 21:47:35 -0000 Received: from pbncomputer (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id D210B53D24; Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:47:18 +0200 (CEST) To: , Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 23:46:51 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Traduko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Me serchas traduko por la angla vorto 'biome'. (komuneso di vivanta organismi en unika regiono ekologiala) Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando wikipedio-uzanto:vaganto Ido-Wikipedio: http://io.wikipedia.org/ Ido-Wikipedio forumo por debati generala: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26-7-04 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1291 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74800 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2004 08:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2004 08:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.119) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 08:04:24 -0000 Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040729080027.TPOG8182.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:00:27 +1200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040729080026.EUXT23967.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:00:26 +1200 To: Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:00:26 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20040729080026.EUXT23967.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.119 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Traduko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Ronald, Quankam Nederlando uzas "bioma", altra Europala lingui havas "biome", quale en Angla. Me sugestas "biomo" por la Idala vorto. Kordiale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Vaganto" > Date: 2004/07/29 Thu AM 09:46:51 GMT+12:00 > To: , > Subject: [linguo] Traduko > > Kar amiki, > > Me serchas traduko por la angla vorto 'biome'. > (komuneso di vivanta organismi en unika regiono ekologiala) > > > Saluti amikala, > > Ronald Bijtenhoorn > Heemskerk - Nederlando > > wikipedio-uzanto:vaganto > > Ido-Wikipedio: > http://io.wikipedia.org/ > > Ido-Wikipedio forumo por debati generala: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26-7-04 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1292 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92157 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2004 20:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2004 20:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ai.mx.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.24) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2004 20:11:28 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ai.mx.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.17) id i6TKBREs011736 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:09:44 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200407291610_MC3-1-877A-422F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.24 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Ka Festo o Festivalo? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Semblas ke la vorto *festivalo esus utila, ultre festar, -o e festinar, -o, pro ke existas ta tri sorti diferanta di eventi. Me insertis ta propozita vorto en listo di vorti por konsidero (e pose votado) da la DK. Robert. __________ >Kordial saluto, kara samforumani! Me deziras savar la vorto maxim justa por referar al "Festo" o "Festivalo" dil Europana Kansono. Me ipsa ja uzis l'unesma de oli, tamen, se me bone memoras, ni ja enlistizis la duesma kom nova vorto propozinda e forsan preferinda. Me pensas ke, efektive, "Festivalo" plukonkretigas l'ideo relatanta, ma olu ne necese indikas konkurenco. E ta "Festo" o "Festivalo" ya es konkurencanta. Ka ni do bezonas ul altra vorto ta-relate? Ka "Festo dil Europana Kansono"? Ka "Festivalo dil Europana Kansono"? Quon vi prisavas o prikonjektas? Me predankas por via respondo ed intereso. P A R T A K A < From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1293 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31551 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2004 14:27:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2004 14:27:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2004 14:27:49 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200407301427.22ec; Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:27:34 GMT Send-By: 24.203.234.125 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; (R1 1.3); .NET CLR 1.1.4322) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:27:34 GMT Message-id: <200407301427.22ec@th00.idoo.com> if-filter0: N X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Rep: Traduko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kara Ronald, Por "biome", ni uzas en la Franca la vorto "ecosysteme". Pro = quo ne "ekosistemo" en Ido ? Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT _______________= ______________________________________________________ Un mot doux =E0 envo= yer? Une sortie cin=E9 =E0 organiser? Faites le en temps r=E9el avec MSN Me= ssenger! C'est gratuit! http://ifrance.com/_reloc/m ____________________= _________________________________________________ Envie de discuter en "liv= e" avec vos amis ? T=E9l=E9charger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com/_re= loc/m la 1=E8re messagerie instantan=E9e de France From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1294 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31906 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2004 15:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2004 15:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2004 15:17:26 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:17:24 -0700 Received: from 213.166.17.12 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:17:24 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:17:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2004 15:17:24.0874 (UTC) FILETIME=[516876A0:01C47648] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.68 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Rep: Traduko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Christophe, kar amiki Me ja uzis *ekosistemo en adminime un tradukuro, por tradukar l'angla vorto... 'ecosystem'. Segun me ol es necesa vorto, ma sro Carnaghan havos problemo nam eko-sistemo es ja 'sistemo di ekoi'. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home A Special Message From the Rev. Dubya Bush, Church of the Latter-Day Morons, Washington Brothers and Sisters over there in Grand Britain! I invite y'all to join with me in the great fight against the Evil One, whoever and wherever he may be! For remember, the Devil has many guises! One minute he's hiding in a cave, like some goddamned, pesky racoon. The next minute he has a moustache and he is in some palace in Baghdad. But my message is clear to him and every one of you! The US Cavalry is coming! And I want y'all over there in little ol' England town to join me in our mission to kick ass in the name of the Lord. The end is nigh and it'll be a lot nigher if I have my way! Amen and Alleluia! - Private Eye _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1295 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42977 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2004 18:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2004 18:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otto.isd-holland.nl) (62.221.254.21) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2004 18:05:07 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (dyn.dailup.c227147137.isd-holland.nl [213.227.147.137]) by otto.isd-holland.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 375443640E2 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:04:59 +0200 (CEST) To: Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:04:14 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200407301427.22ec@th00.idoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 62.221.254.21 From: "Vaganto" Subject: RE: [linguo] Rep: Traduko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Richard, James e Christophe, Danko pro vua respondi. Me opiniona= s ke la propozo (biomo) da Richard esas la maxim bona solvuro. 'Ekologiala= sistemo' ne esas la sama kam 'biomo'. 'Biomo' esas granda geografiala regi= ono (tundra, dezerto, pluvforesto) e povas kontenar multa 'ekologiala siste= mi'. Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando wikipedio= -uzanto:vaganto Ido-Wikipedio: http://io.wikipedia.org/ Ido-Wikipedio for= umo por debati generala: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ = -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Christophe Gaubert [mailto:christ= ophe-g@ifrance.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 30 juli 2004 15:28 Aan: linguoli= sto@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [linguo] Rep: Traduko Kara Ronald, = Por "biome", ni uzas en la Franca la vorto "ecosysteme". Pro quo ne "ekos= istemo" en Ido ? Amikale, Christophe GAUBERT _____________________= ________________________________________________ Un mot doux =E0 envoyer?= Une sortie cin=E9 =E0 organiser? Faites le en temps r=E9el avec MSN Mess= enger! C'est gratuit! http://ifrance.com/_reloc/m ____________________= _________________________________________________ Envie de discuter en "l= ive" avec vos amis ? T=E9l=E9charger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com= /_reloc/m la 1=E8re messagerie instantan=E9e de France Yahoo! Gro= ups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------- -- Yahoo! Groups Links = a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/gr= oup/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:= linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Gr= oups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of th= is message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1296 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22374 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2004 13:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2004 13:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.104) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2004 13:41:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2004 13:41:38 -0000 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:41:37 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 472 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.104 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Ordino X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio En Ido on darfas uzar en propra nomi originala literi qui ne existas en ba= zal alfabeto di Ido. Do, quala esas alfabetal ordino en Ido, se ulu mustas= ordinar, por exemple, =C7atal H=FCy=FCk, =D6tzi, K=F8benhavn, =C5lando. (= Me deziras ke la literi esas videbla korekte en vua monitoro.) Me pensas k= e maxim facila esos insertar =C7 kun C ed =C4, =C5 kun A ed =D6, =D8 kun O= edc., e ne prolongar la listo di alfabeti. Kad existas oficala respondo? = Salutante Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1298 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36863 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2004 10:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2004 10:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.86) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2004 10:11:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 Aug 2004 03:11:42 -0700 Received: from 213.166.17.12 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 Aug 2004 10:11:41 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 10:11:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2004 10:11:42.0049 (UTC) FILETIME=[19F33D10:01C47D30] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.86 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [ido] ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara SAM (Vlado) L'angla vorto "internet" signfikas "inter-network". Se on tradukas literale aden Ido, on obtenas inter-reto. Ica kompozuro ne bezonas asterisko. Segun me la sufixo -aj es ne-necesa, ma inter-retajo es komprenebla. Altenative, on darfas skribar "internet" en cito-hoketi, o interneto* quo esus tote nova vorto en Ido. Me preferas inter-reto, o simple 'reto. Amikala saluti Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "See, everyone got boners over the technology, and it was pretty incredible watching a missile fly down an air vent. Pretty unbelievable. But couldn't we feasibly use that same technology to shoot food at hungry people? Know what I mean? Fly over Ethiopia. "There's a guy that needs a banana." (missile sound) The Stealth Banana... Smart Fruit!" - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1991 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1299 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5843 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2004 18:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2004 18:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2004 18:09:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:09:51 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.209 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:09:51 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:09:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2004 18:09:51.0417 (UTC) FILETIME=[E31A6290:01C486E0] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.67 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] La vetero X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara David Pri vua vorto 'cirkumajala': existas apta (segun me) neoficala vorto, ambient/o. Me tradukus tale: Europana *Ambient-Agenterio. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "That's the problem with this country. Ah, one of them. There are many. But this whole issue of sexuality and pornography, which I don't understand what pornography is, I really don't. To me pornography is, you know, spending all your money and not educating the people in America, but spending it instead on weapons. That's pornographic to me. That's totally filthy." - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1991 _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1300 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18668 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2004 19:13:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2004 19:13:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.176) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2004 19:13:51 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ByEpj-0000kh-00; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:13:51 +0200 Received: from [217.9.44.127] (helo=eberhardilo) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1ByEpi-00074Z-00; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:13:50 +0200 Message-ID: <002001c486ea$7b7ee700$7f2c09d9@eberhardilo> To: , References: Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:15:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.176 From: "Eberhard Scholz" Subject: Quon es la difero ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976 X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kar amiko Robert C. dum la venanta semano me transsendos a vu la listo, po= r qua la hikea samideani trovas la justa vorti. Ni diskutis pri la plu bona= elekto di nociono : - parlamento Europana - parlamento Europala Quon = es la difero ? Amikale Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1301 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95824 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2004 10:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2004 10:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.86) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2004 10:07:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:07:45 -0700 Received: from 213.166.17.12 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:07:45 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:07:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2004 10:07:45.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[B48EAE00:01C48766] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.86 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Quon es la difero ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Eberhard Segun me, cakaze esas praktikale nula difero inter Europana ed Europala - to es, en la kuntexto di Parlamento. Me ipsa preferas Europana, nam ol es plu naturala (A. European, F. Europeen ec.), e me skribus Europana Parlamento. Ma ni devas sempre memorar la vorti dal pioniro Couturat: "Ni ne questionez, Quale me devas dicar to? ma prefere, Quale me darfas dicar to." Ido es richa ed expresiva linguo, e certenakaze esos plura plu-min bona traduko-posiblesi. Ni ne timez selektar liberale inter li. Liberesala saluti Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "That's the problem with this country. Ah, one of them. There are many. But this whole issue of sexuality and pornography, which I don't understand what pornography is, I really don't. To me pornography is, you know, spending all your money and not educating the people in America, but spending it instead on weapons. That's pornographic to me. That's totally filthy." - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1991 >From: "Eberhard Scholz" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: , >Subject: [linguo] Quon es la difero ? >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:15:45 +0200 > >Kar amiko Robert C. > >dum la venanta semano me transsendos a vu >la listo, por qua la hikea samideani trovas la >justa vorti. >Ni diskutis pri la plu bona elekto di nociono : > - parlamento Europana > - parlamento Europala >Quon es la difero ? > >Amikale >Eberhard > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1303 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10588 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2004 08:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2004 08:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2004 08:49:49 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i7M8n2qH019182 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:19:03 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i7M8n2t2019179 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:19:02 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:19:02 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040821113643.96938.qmail@web50510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20040821113643.96938.qmail@web50510.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Unsubscribe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara amiki, Maxim probable, tala mesajo (kom lo Ye 2004-08-21 04:36 -0700, EMPIRE CAFE skribis: > thanks for your unrelented efforts to seeing that I > read from you all the time. I will no longer been > needing your write-ups anymore so pls. cancel my name > from your subscribers list. > Thanks. > Johnny. > > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1304 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56348 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2004 21:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2004 21:57:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag1ab.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.4) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2004 21:57:51 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.17) id i7MLvokw025807 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:56:08 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200408221757_MC3-1-88B7-49F6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.4 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: [linguo] Quon es la difero ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Kara Eberhard, Me kredas ke "Europana" signifikas "qua apartenas ad Europa", e ke "Europala" signifikas "qua relatas Europa". Maxim ofte la difero di senco ne importas, nam amba koncepti esas valida. Nur desfacile me povus - forsan - supozar cirkonstanco ube importus la difero di senco. Generale on uzas la vorto "Europana", supozeble pro ke ol esas simila a la vorto korespondanta en sat multa lingui. Robert. ______ >Ni diskutis pri la plu bona elekto di nociono : - parlamento Europana - parlamento Europala< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1305 Return-Path: X-Sender: demptos@ifra.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41027 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2004 23:02:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2004 23:02:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.ifra.com) (195.143.61.126) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2004 23:02:01 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:00:45 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on IFRA_GATE/IFRA/DE(Release 6.5.2|June 01, 2004) at 2004-08-23 01:03:27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 195.143.61.126 From: demptos@ifra.com Subject: Gilles Demptos/IFRA/DE is out of the office. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=163454252 I will be out of the office starting 13.08.2004 and will not return until 01.09.2004. En caso de urgencia contactar con Sophie Ozanne, (ozanne@ifra.com, +34 651 180 364). En cas d'urgence, pour Ifra SWE, merci de contacter Gerard Esteve, esteve@ifra.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1306 Return-Path: X-Sender: christophe-g@ifrance.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93274 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2004 15:19:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Aug 2004 15:19:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO th00.idoo.com) (82.196.4.10) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2004 15:19:45 -0000 Received: from 10.1.5.6 [10.1.5.6] by th00.idoo.com id 200408261518.2f7a; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:18:47 GMT Send-By: 24.203.234.125 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) To: X-Priority: 3 (normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:18:47 GMT Message-id: <200408261518.2f7a@th00.idoo.com> if-filter0: N X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 82.196.4.10 From: "Christophe Gaubert" Subject: Rep:[linguo] Quon es la difero ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83981987 X-Yahoo-Profile: koukidemtl Kar amiki, Me konkordas kun Robert Carnaghan pri l'expliko pri la difero i= nter "europana parlamento" ed "europala parlamento". Do existas vera difero= . Subtila, ma vera... To esas la supereso di Ido : ni tale povas expresar n= uanci qui ne existas en l'altra lingui. La Parlamento en Strasbourg esas k= omprenende parlamento europANA, ma anke europALA. Tamen la parlamento en Be= rlin esas parlamento europANA (pro ke olu situesas en Europa), ma ne esas p= arlamento europALA (olu ne relatas l'Europa, ma nur la Germania). Do ni k= onsideras plura parlamenti europANA, ma nur un Parlamento europALA. La maxi= m preciza nuanco esas l'expreso "parlamento europala". Amikale, Christophe= GAUBERT ____________________________________________________________= _________ Un mot doux =E0 envoyer? Une sortie cin=E9 =E0 organiser? Faites = le en temps r=E9el avec MSN Messenger! C'est gratuit! http://ifrance.com/= _reloc/m ___[ Pub ]_______________________________________________________= _____ Inscrivez-vous gratuitement sur Tandaime, Le site de rencontres ! htt= p://rencontre.rencontres.com/index.php?origine=3D4 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1307 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32435 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2004 20:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Aug 2004 20:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 2004 20:20:31 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C0QjV-0002iq-00; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:20:29 +0200 Received: from [217.199.68.156] (helo=eberhardilo) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1C0QjU-0004jD-00; Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:20:29 +0200 Message-ID: <000201c48baa$d532e480$9c44c7d9@eberhardilo> To: , References: <200408261518.2f7a@th00.idoo.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:18:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.171 From: "Eberhard Scholz" Subject: Quon es la difero ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976 X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kar amiki Christophe, James e Robert, me tre dankas pro via expliki. Me k= onkordas kun la bela frazo : To esas la supereso di Ido : ni tale povas ex= presar nuanci qui ne existas en l'altra lingui. Volunte me partoprenus ye = somerala kampeyo por parlernar nia linguo. Ultre , tala linguala kampeyon = ni devus organizar por geyuni. Quon vi pensas pri to ? Amikale Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1308 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66834 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2004 09:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2004 09:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2004 09:07:46 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep20-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040829090745.YESG8513.amsfep20-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:07:45 +0200 Message-ID: <004901c48da7$8d5bb930$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:07:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: populi e tribui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara amiki, Kad existas listo de populi e tribui? Me questionas me ka la vorto por "noorman" tradukesas per "normando" o "nordano". "Normando" semblas a me habitanto di Normandia (Francia) e 'nordano' semblas tro ne-preciza a me. Me serchas la nomo la habitinti (tribuani) de skandinavia qui venis spoliar, multa yarcenti ante nun, la maro-rivi di nord/west-Europa. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1309 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43233 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2004 00:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2004 00:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.118) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2004 00:06:53 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.157]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040831000650.KBEY10317.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:06:50 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.136] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040831000650.XRSG21194.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> for ; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:06:50 +1200 To: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:06:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040831000650.XRSG21194.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.118 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] populi e tribui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Hans, La Skandinaviani havis importanta imperio dum l=92unesma yarmilo= p.K. Per lia helpo la tribuo =93Rus=94 divenis la lando Rusia, e per audac= anta voyaji en =93longa bateli=94 li atingis Islando, Grenlando e mem Nord-= amerika. Ofte nomizita la Vikingi li spoliis la marbordala urbi en Anglia,= ma eventuale li kolonigis la nordala ed estala regioni ed adjuntis a la de= velopeso di l=92Angla linguo. En Europa li voyagis til Konstantinopolo e ko= lonigas West-francia. Quale la Normandi li obliviis sua linguo e parolis di= alekto di Franca. En 1066 li invadis Anglia e preske introduktis Franca, ma= la Germana linguo, Ancien-angla vinkis. Nuntempe existas rikreado di Vikin= go-vilajo en l=92urbego York en Anglia e montras diversa pacema mestieri di= ta populo (nomizis la Dani en Anglia). Ultre lia militala aventuri li anke= produktas meritoza exempli d=92arto. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "H= . Stuifbergen" > Date: 2004/08/29 Sun PM 09:07:04 GMT+= 12:00 > To: > CC: = > Subject: [linguo] populi e tribui > > [Non-text portions of this mess= age have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1310 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16022 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2004 18:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2004 18:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.72) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2004 18:31:59 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:31:59 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.70 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:31:59 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:31:59 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2004 18:31:59.0344 (UTC) FILETIME=[CD273700:01C48F88] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.72 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] Helpo por tradukar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Adrian Pri vua unesma vort-ensemblo, segun mea fonti: >Anaesthesia anestezi(es)o >Tumour tumoro >Dermatology dermatologio >Urology urologio >Ginecology ginekologio >Laser *lazero (AF) Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "That's the problem with this country. Ah, one of them. There are many. But this whole issue of sexuality and pornography, which I don't understand what pornography is, I really don't. To me pornography is, you know, spending all your money and not educating the people in America, but spending it instead on weapons. That's pornographic to me. That's totally filthy." - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1991 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1311 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46231 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2004 18:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2004 18:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.89) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2004 18:42:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:42:14 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.74 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:42:13 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:42:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Aug 2004 18:42:14.0176 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B9F2200:01C48F8A] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.89 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] Helpo por tradukar (2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Adrian Pri vua duesma vort-ensemblo, segun mea fonti: >acne akneo >cosmetic (surgery) kosmetikala kirurgio >plastic surgery plastika kirurgio >rheumatology *reumatologio >angiology *angiologio >digestive digest/ala, -iva >Endoskopie endoskopio Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "That's the problem with this country. Ah, one of them. There are many. But this whole issue of sexuality and pornography, which I don't understand what pornography is, I really don't. To me pornography is, you know, spending all your money and not educating the people in America, but spending it instead on weapons. That's pornographic to me. That's totally filthy." - Bill Hicks, at the Laff Stop, Austin TX, 1991 _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1312 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70884 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2004 20:50:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Aug 2004 20:50:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 2004 20:50:57 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20040831205056.DXWU3691.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:50:56 +0200 Message-ID: <022801c48f9c$1f6a8040$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: References: <20040831000650.XRSG21194.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:50:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.17 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] populi e tribui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Danko Richard, Ma nun me ankore ne savas ka la Vikingi e Normandi esis la sama populi, e ka "normando" koncernas ti qui lojas en Normandia, od anke l' anciena populo Skandinavia. Pri "Rus", to es interesanta. Entraprezema populi, ta Skandinaviani! Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Kara Hans, La Skandinaviani havis importanta imperio dum l'unesma yarmilo p.K. Per lia helpo la tribuo "Rus" divenis la lando Rusia, e per audacanta voyaji en "longa bateli" li atingis Islando, Grenlando e mem Nord-amerika. Ofte nomizita la Vikingi li spoliis la marbordala urbi en Anglia, ma eventuale li kolonigis la nordala ed estala regioni ed adjuntis a la developeso di l'Angla linguo. En Europa li voyagis til Konstantinopolo e kolonigas West-francia. Quale la Normandi li obliviis sua linguo e parolis dialekto di Franca. En 1066 li invadis Anglia e preske introduktis Franca, ma la Germana linguo, Ancien-angla vinkis. Nuntempe existas rikreado di Vikingo-vilajo en l'urbego York en Anglia e montras diversa pacema mestieri di ta populo (nomizis la Dani en Anglia). Ultre lia militala aventuri li anke produktas meritoza exempli d'arto. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1313 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72151 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2004 02:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2004 02:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.118) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2004 02:31:48 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040901023147.KYYU10317.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:31:47 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040901023147.UNVK24839.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:31:47 +1200 To: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:31:46 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040901023147.UNVK24839.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.118 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] populi e tribui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Hans, Dum la nonesma yarcento p.K. tribui de Skandinavia ( o la Vikingi) kolonigis la Nord-west-francia en regiono qua divenis Normandia (viri de la nordo). Li ne esis la anciena habitanti di Francia ma Vikingi qui obliviis sua linguo de Skandinavia e vice uzis dialekto di Franca. Plu tarde li anke kolonigas Anglia, do ta lando recevis du invadi de Skandinavia,unesme la Vikingi (o Dani) e 500 yari pose, la Normandi, anke Vikingi ma Franca-parolanta! Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "H. Stuifbergen" > Date: 2004/09/01 Wed AM 08:50:17 GMT+12:00 > To: > CC: > Subject: Re: [linguo] populi e tribui > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1314 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49999 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2004 03:35:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2004 03:35:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2004 03:35:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.136] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2004 03:35:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:35:54 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 545 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.64 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: "lazero o *laser? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert e James, *Lasero o *lazero? Me agnoskas ke Ido es fonetika, konseque se ni preservas la Angla pronunco ni uzus *lazero. Ma preske ubiqua es l'espelado "laser". Do (1) Se *lasero divenis "la sero" la subita chanjo a biologiala senso es nekredebla en la kuntexto.(Sero = liquido de sango qua restas pos koaguleso). (2) Se *lazero divenas "la zero" amba vorti havas fizikala o matematikala senso e forsan konfundo eventos. Do *laser semblas plu aceptebla quankam la pronunco ne precize fitas l'espelado. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1315 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53669 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2004 06:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2004 06:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2004 06:03:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.142] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2004 06:03:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:03:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004901c48da7$8d5bb930$acef5dd5@azalia> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 127 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.78 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: populi e tribui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Hans ed Altri Voluntez e lektez l' artiklo pri "Vikingo" che nia Wikipedio. Forsan ol helpas vu. Wikipediale Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1316 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10012 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2004 14:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2004 14:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep16-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.25) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2004 14:49:51 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep16-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040902144949.YLBI20032.amsfep16-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:49:49 +0200 Message-ID: <01b801c490fb$ff5443c0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:49:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.25 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: populi e tribui X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Arto Moisio, Me dankas vu pro l' ecelanta informo pri 'Vikingo' che Wikipedio. Es bona ye libera dio traserchar omna Idaji kreita da nia aktiva samideani! Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1317 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27921 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2004 09:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2004 09:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2004 09:13:33 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep20-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.00.05.02 201-2115-109-103-20031105) with SMTP id <20040903091319.QRCA8513.amsfep20-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:13:19 +0200 Message-ID: <00a201c49196$26fa8250$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: , , References: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 11:12:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Res:_=5Bidoespa=F1ol=5D_Dentala_dolori?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Adri�n Pastrana, Tal-kaze, me rekomendas skribar la mankanta vorti Hispane en listo e sendar ol ad Ido-Espa�ol e Linguolisto. E se vu ipsa propozas vorto, voluntez anke sendar ta vorto/i KUN DEFINO a Linguolisto, por ke la vorto/i insertesez en la Listo di Propozita (Nova) Vorti. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Adrian Pastrana" Aan: Verzonden: vrijdag 3 september 2004 10:38 Onderwerp: RE: [idoespa�ol] Itere : Dentala dolori > Yes, tu esas tre justa, ofte me ipsa bezonas plu preciza vorti por skribar > en Ido. Exemple, por mea artiklo di la lasta numero di Adavane, me bezonis > tradukar medikala vorti de la Hispana ad Ido, tamen me ne trovis sua traduko > che nia vortari. Pos cent yari, ankore restas multa tradukenda vorti e multa > lingui sen sua Ido-vortaro (Greka, Rumana, Bulgara,...). > Saluti amikala > Adri�n Pastrana > > > >From: "JEAN MARTIGNON" > >Reply-To: idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com > >To: "IDOSTAB" > >CC: "IDOLERNEYO" ,"idoespanyol" > > > >Subject: [idoespa�ol] Itere : Dentala dolori > >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 21:12:00 +0200 (MET DST) > > > >Kar amiki, > > > >Me iris adche la dentisto cavespere. > >Regretinde la radiko dil koncernata > >dento esas fushita ed on mustos > >extirpar ol. Kompense la dentisto > >propozas a me instalar dentala stekajo, > >t.e. instalar artificala dento di qua > >la radiko stekesas en la maxilala od > >mandibulala osto. En tala cirkonstanci, > >on konstatas ke ni devas krear nia > >vortaro pri kozi di la moderna > >singladia vivo. Fortunoze, on povas > >uzar tre ofte la tradicionala vortaro > >per adjuntar a lu preciziganta vorti. > > > >Moderna saluti. JM <<<:>>> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Un amor, una aventura, compa��a para un viaje. Reg�strate gratis en MSN Amor > & Amistad. http://match.msn.es/ > > > > Aprenda Ido, la lengua m�s facil, para todo el mundo: http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado > http://ido.li > Enlaces a Yahoo! Grupos > > > idoespanyol-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > http://es.docs.yahoo.com/info/utos.html > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1318 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98424 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2004 12:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2004 12:28:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2004 12:28:55 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 4 Sep 2004 05:28:55 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.76 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:28:55 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:28:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Sep 2004 12:28:55.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE8502F0:01C4927A] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.91 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] "lazero o *laser? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Richard Ek la fonto-lingui di Ido, nur la Hispana havas [s] en "laser". Segun la generala regulo di Ido, *lazero es la formo adoptenda. "zero" ne es ordinara sb. quale "domo", do "la zero" esos rarega. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "You have a McDonalds in Moscow now, and that's something I really don't care for - the Americanisation of the world. Bad Products Served Rudely, hahaha!" - Bill Hicks, in NME, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1319 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5911 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2004 00:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2004 00:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2004 00:12:49 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.156]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20040905001248.NSMU2409.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:12:48 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.136] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20040905001248.QJQB21194.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:12:48 +1200 To: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 12:12:48 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20040905001248.QJQB21194.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.159 From: Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] "lazero o *laser? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara James, Danko por la komenti pri "lasero/lazero". L'espelado di ta vorto per interretala tradukuro-programo ad omna Europala lingui es "laser", ecepte ke en Greka e Rusa, en lia alfabeto, li uzas "z". Do on konjektas ke "z" = ubiqua pronunco, ed Ido skribas "lazero". Evidente vu asertas ke "laser" en Hispana fakte havas pronunco di "s", nam la litero "z" en Hispana donas problemi, kun pronunco = "A: th" en Hispania ed = "s" en Sud-amerika. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2004/09/05 Sun AM 12:28:55 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [linguo] "lazero o *laser? > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1320 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32618 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2004 09:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2004 09:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2004 09:26:36 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i859Nk25012969 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:53:46 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i859Nka9012966 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:53:46 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:53:46 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: RE: [linguo] "lazero o *laser? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara James, Richard ed amiki, Ye 2004-09-04 12:28 -0000, James Chandler skribis: > Kara Richard > > Ek la fonto-lingui di Ido, nur la Hispana havas [s] en "laser". Segun la > generala regulo di Ido, *lazero es la formo adoptenda. "zero" ne es > ordinara sb. quale "domo", do "la zero" esos rarega. "Laser" signifikas "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation" (Lumo-Ampligo per Stimulata Emiso di Radiajo). Do, unesme semblis a me, ke "z" esas neapta. Anke, on darfas konsiderar "LASER" kom propra nomo, donita da la deskovrinti di la fenomeno, Javan, Bennett e Herriot (che Bell Labs en 1961). De ol venis la verbo "to lase". Materii qui havas la kapableso "to lase" inkluzas He-Ne, rubino, e Nd. Konsideranta lo, me konfesas, ke ne esas altra litero uzebla vice "z". On povas havar "lazar" kom "to lase", e de ol, "lazero", materio qua *lazas ed anke mashino qua, per la materio, *lazas. On nomas la rezultanta lumo kom "koheranta lumo". Amikale... -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1321 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69802 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2004 02:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2004 02:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2004 02:11:40 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8628g25014729 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:38:42 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i8628fQl014726 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:38:42 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 11:38:41 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: RE: [linguo] "lazero o *laser? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 2004-09-05 18:53 +0930, Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: > Anke, on darfas konsiderar "LASER" kom propra nomo, donita da la > deskovrinti di la fenomeno, Javan, Bennett e Herriot (che Bell Labs en > 1961). Pri to me eroris. La *lazero esis inventata da Schawlow e Townes en yaro 1958. Videz . Javan, Bennett e Herriot konstruktis la unesma He-Ne *lazero. -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1322 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9153 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2004 19:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2004 19:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2004 19:07:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 12:07:20 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.71 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:07:19 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:07:19 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2004 19:07:20.0192 (UTC) FILETIME=[E62B3000:01C4950D] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.69 From: "James Chandler" Subject: "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Linguolistani Me serchas tradukuro dil angla verbo "to recycle". Forsan ri/uz/ar, ma la senco di "recycle" es kelke plu richa. Ka vi povas helpar? Predanko Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "You have a McDonalds in Moscow now, and that's something I really don't care for - the Americanisation of the world. Bad Products Served Rudely, hahaha!" - Bill Hicks, in NME, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1323 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59872 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2004 19:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2004 19:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2004 19:25:37 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D844159E6 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:25:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c49510$64a4bdf0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: References: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 21:25:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Re: [linguo] "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ri-cikligar? Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando wikipedio-uzanto:vaganto Ido-Wikipedio: http://io.wikipedia.org/ Ido-Wikipedio forumo por debati generala: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ ----- Original Message ----- From: James Chandler To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:07 PM Subject: [linguo] "recycle" Kara Linguolistani Me serchas tradukuro dil angla verbo "to recycle". Forsan ri/uz/ar, ma la senco di "recycle" es kelke plu richa. Ka vi povas helpar? Predanko Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "You have a McDonalds in Moscow now, and that's something I really don't care for - the Americanisation of the world. Bad Products Served Rudely, hahaha!" - Bill Hicks, in NME, 1992 _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 6-9-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1324 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64994 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2004 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2004 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2004 14:45:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.117] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2004 14:45:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:45:13 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 276 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.82 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Jammes Chandler" wrote: > Me serchas tradukuro dil angla verbo "to recycle". Forsan ri/uz/ar, ma la senco di "recycle" es kelke plu richa. Ka vi povas helpar? Kara James En Finlandana linguo ni "cirkuligar". Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1325 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89253 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2004 18:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2004 18:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2004 18:11:23 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:10:44 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.74 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:10:44 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:10:44 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2004 18:10:44.0446 (UTC) FILETIME=[288F37E0:01C495CF] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.67 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Ronald ed Arto Danko pro via respondi. Me pensas pri ri/cirkul/ig/ar, efektive kombinuro dil angla e finlandana vorti. Ka bona solvo? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "You have a McDonalds in Moscow now, and that's something I really don't care for - the Americanisation of the world. Bad Products Served Rudely, hahaha!" - Bill Hicks, in NME, 1992 >From: "Arto Moisio" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] Re: "recycle" >Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:45:13 -0000 > >--- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > > > Me serchas tradukuro dil angla verbo "to recycle". Forsan ri/uz/ar, >ma la senco di "recycle" es kelke plu richa. Ka vi povas helpar? > >Kara James > >En Finlandana linguo ni "cirkuligar". > >Arto Moisio > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1326 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87795 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2004 19:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2004 19:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2004 19:20:49 -0000 Received: from user (pad-55.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.55]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 6521C311FE for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:20:46 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <000501c495d8$ebe144a0$1b12070a@user> To: References: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:20:37 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.196.28.8 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Kara James, Ka forsan *ri/cikl/igar ( ri + cikl(o) + igar) Kordiale, Herder ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Chandler" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 3:10 PM Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: "recycle" > Kara Ronald ed Arto > > Danko pro via respondi. Me pensas pri ri/cirkul/ig/ar, efektive kombinuro > dil angla e finlandana vorti. Ka bona solvo? > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > > "You have a McDonalds in Moscow now, and that's something I really don't > care for - the Americanisation of the world. Bad Products Served Rudely, > hahaha!" - Bill Hicks, in NME, 1992 > > > > > > >From: "Arto Moisio" > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [linguo] Re: "recycle" > >Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:45:13 -0000 > > > >--- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > > > > > Me serchas tradukuro dil angla verbo "to recycle". Forsan ri/uz/ar, > >ma la senco di "recycle" es kelke plu richa. Ka vi povas helpar? > > > >Kara James > > > >En Finlandana linguo ni "cirkuligar". > > > >Arto Moisio > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1327 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31275 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2004 21:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2004 21:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2004 21:04:41 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20040915210440.ZZDS20913.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:04:40 +0200 Message-ID: <022801c49b67$809239e0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: References: Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:03:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.17 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: l' Okcitana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Partaka, Me trovis en la libro "A Couturat", odo, da Andreas Juste, (quan me fotokopios e sendos a vu, venanta semanofino), ke Andreas Juste uzas la formo: Okcitana. Do, me supozas ke vu es korekta pri la nomo di la linguo, ke ol esez la "Okcitana". Depos nun me uzos ta formo. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1328 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25435 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2004 12:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2004 12:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.99) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2004 12:28:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.117] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2004 12:28:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:28:05 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c495d8$ebe144a0$1b12070a@user> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2110 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.99 From: "herderbr" Subject: [linguo] Re: "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Pri "recycle", F=3Drecycler, r=E9utiliser( "action de r=E9cuperer des = d=E9chets, de leur faire subir un traitement e de les r=E9introduire dans = le cycle de production" - me adjuntas: G=3D regenerieren, umw=E4lzen; H= =3D reciclar; I=3D riciclare, riconvertire;P=3Dreciclar Amikale, Herder = --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Herder" wrote: > Kara Ja= mes, > > Ka forsan *ri/cikl/igar ( ri + cikl(o) + igar) > > Kordiale, = > > Herder > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Chandler" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08,= 2004 3:10 PM > Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: "recycle" > > > > Kara Ronald e= d Arto > > > > Danko pro via respondi. Me pensas pri ri/cirkul/ig/ar, efek= tive kombinuro > > dil angla e finlandana vorti. Ka bona solvo? > > > > K= ordiale, James Chandler > > idojc@h... > > http://www.geocities.com/idojc -= IALs index > > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > > = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > > > > "You have a = McDonalds in Moscow now, and that's something I really don't > > care for = - the Americanisation of the world. Badd Products Served Rudely, > > hahah= a!" - Bill Hicks, in NME, 1992 > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Arto Moisio"= > > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > >To: linguoli= sto@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [linguo] Re: "recycle" > > >Date: Wed, 08= Sep 2004 14:45:13 -0000 > > > > > >--- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Ja= mes Chandler" wrote: > > > > > > > Me serchas tradukuro dil a= ngla verbo "to recycle". Forsan ri/uz/ar, > > >ma la senco di "recycle" e= s kelke plu richa. Ka vi povas helpar? > > > > > >Kara James > > > > > >En= Finlandana linguo ni "cirkuligar". > > > > > >Arto Moisio > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > = > _________________________________________________________________ > > It'= s fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > > http://www.ms= n.co.uk/messenger > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >= > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1329 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6232 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2004 13:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2004 13:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2004 13:44:35 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 06:43:45 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.209 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:43:45 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:43:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Sep 2004 13:43:45.0711 (UTC) FILETIME=[84C7BBF0:01C49D85] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.69 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: "recycle" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Herder Danko pro vua utila informi. Pri vua antea sugesto, me opinionas ke on ne darfas uzar la radiko cikl/o por tradukar "recycle", nam ca radiko es substantivo. Ma surbaze dil formi FIHP, ni povus konsiderar nova verbo *recikl/ar. Alternative, me ja uzis ri/cirkul/ig/ar. Evidente, dum ke resursi* exhaustesas, vorto por ica koncepto divenos sempre plu necesa! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home A Special Message to all our English Co-Religionists from the Rev. Dubya Bush, First Church of Latter-Day Morons "Brothers and Sisters in the Lord, I tell you the day is at hand, that day of which we read in the mighty book of the Prophet Enron, when the Great Satan shall arise, spreading his axis of evil over the world. And note how close the word 'Satan' is to 'Saddam'. Is that a coincidence? I think not, brethren! I ask you all to join with me, along with your pastor, my good friend Rev. Blair, to take up the sword and cast out these Satanic devils as they deserve. For it is written, 'Go forth and kick ass. Thus saith the Lord.' And if he doesn't, then I do! God bless America and no-one else. Here endeth the world." - Private Eye _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1330 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63097 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2004 18:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2004 18:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2004 18:28:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2004 18:27:34 -0000 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:27:32 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 155 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: La fingri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani: Me questionas me ka singla manuo-fingro havas sua nomo aparta en Ido? Me falias trovar ta nomi en la vortari. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1331 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89519 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2004 19:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2004 19:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13308.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.44) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2004 19:30:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20040918193054.77883.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.82.2] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:30:54 CEST Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:30:54 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.44 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] La fingri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kar Eduardo: Forsan me povas helpar vu relate vua questiono. La manuo-fingri nomesas: polexo, indiko-fingro, meza fingro, ringo-fingro e mikra fingro (od orel-fingro). Pluse, la maxim dika pedo-fingro nomesas haluxo. Fonto: dicionario Dyer. Saluto kordial! P A R T A K A --- "Eduardo A. Rodi" skribis: --------------------------------- Kara samideani: Me questionas me ka singla manuo-fingro havas sua nomo aparta en Ido? Me falias trovar ta nomi en la vortari. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI ===== Nova forumo IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN:http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1332 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37160 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2004 19:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2004 19:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.23) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2004 19:41:36 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20040918194133.UNRZ15189.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:41:33 +0200 Message-ID: <010e01c49db7$63516070$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:40:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.23 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] La fingri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Eduardo, Bona questiono, me ne es certa, ma forsan: polexo indikofingro meza fingro ringo-fingro mikra fingro (*minolo) Qui savas la Latina equivalanti? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Aan: Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 20:27 Onderwerp: [linguo] La fingri > Kara samideani: > > Me questionas me ka singla manuo-fingro havas sua nomo aparta en Ido? > Me falias trovar ta nomi en la vortari. > > Amikale, > > Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1333 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44397 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2004 19:42:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2004 19:42:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2004 19:42:43 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20040918194242.SOQQ7177.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:42:42 +0200 Message-ID: <012201c49db7$8dff20a0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <010e01c49db7$63516070$acef5dd5@azalia> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 21:41:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.27 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] La fingri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info (Pardonez me Partaka, me ne vidis ke vu ja respondis :-)) Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "H. Stuifbergen" Aan: Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 21:40 Onderwerp: Re: [linguo] La fingri > Kara Eduardo, > > Bona questiono, me ne es certa, ma forsan: > > polexo > indikofingro > meza fingro > ringo-fingro > mikra fingro (*minolo) > > Qui savas la Latina equivalanti? > > Saluti amikala, > > Hans St. > -- > ODIO NE ES SOLVILO > > - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. > > - OMNA IDO-FORUMI > http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado > > MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: > http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere > ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- > Van: "Eduardo A. Rodi" > Aan: > Verzonden: zaterdag 18 september 2004 20:27 > Onderwerp: [linguo] La fingri > > > > Kara samideani: > > > > Me questionas me ka singla manuo-fingro havas sua nomo aparta en Ido? > > Me falias trovar ta nomi en la vortari. > > > > Amikale, > > > > Eduardo A. RODI > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1334 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62321 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2004 05:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2004 05:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60805.mail.yahoo.com) (216.155.196.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2004 05:16:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20040919051651.15567.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:16:51 PDT Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.155.196.68 From: Don Gasper Subject: La prefixo "para" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara linguisti/lingueri, Kad en Ido ni darfas parolar pri la "paraolimpiki"? Kordiale, Don __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1335 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97526 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2004 14:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2004 14:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60808.mail.yahoo.com) (216.155.196.71) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2004 14:39:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20040920143720.16932.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.193.27.126] by web60808.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:37:20 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:37:20 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040919051651.15567.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.155.196.71 From: Don Gasper Subject: Revuo: "Ido-Saluto" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, En la nova numero di "Ido-Saluto" me trovis la vorto "konstruaji" - eroro por "konstruktaji". Anke la formo "honorar", qua, me kredas, devus esar "honorizar". Kordiale, Don __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1336 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75564 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2004 09:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2004 09:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2004 09:00:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.123] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2004 09:00:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:00:56 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 133 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.76 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: La fingri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara PARTAKA e Hans: Me dankas via helpo relate mea questiono. Kad "orelo-fingro"? To esas ya amuziva! Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1337 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67263 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2004 21:01:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2004 21:01:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2004 21:01:51 -0000 Received: from user (pad-55.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.55]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 01D0F338CE for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:58:03 -0300 (BRT) Message-ID: <000501c4a015$4712fa80$1b12070a@user> To: References: <20040919051651.15567.qmail@web60805.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:57:50 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.196.28.8 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] La prefixo "para" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Kara Don, Ne "olimpiki" ma "olimpiala, meaopinione. Do: ludi olimpiala, ludi parolimpiala ( France: paralympiques; Angle: paralympics). Pri la Greka prefixo - "para" - segun la KGD Ido adoptis ol , strikte quale prefixo , nur en la senso "shirmilo kontre" ( para-falo, para-fulmino, para-lumo, e.c.). Ma, fakte, ta prefixo "para" havas altra sensi ultre "shirmilo kontre" , ol-qui aparas en altra vortal kompozaji quin Ido adoptis ( ex. parabolo, paradigmo, paradoxo,paragrafo, parafrazo, paralaxo, e.c.). pro olia internacioneso. Forsan, pro to esas od esus anke admisebla "parolimpiala". Ma, ita es nur laika opiniono. Ni vartez la experti. Amikale, Herder. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Gasper" To: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [linguo] La prefixo "para" > Kara linguisti/lingueri, > > Kad en Ido ni darfas parolar pri la "paraolimpiki"? > > Kordiale, > > Don > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1338 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71131 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2004 19:43:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2004 19:43:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.23) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2004 19:43:48 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20040922194347.OTUN23251.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:43:47 +0200 Message-ID: <003701c4a0dc$5bc71700$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: References: <15631913.1095868145580.JavaMail.www@wwinf0101> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:42:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.23 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: Spam Alert: [francidol] Helpo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Loik, Ido-Fran=E7aise da J. Guignon (1924), donas: lanugo - duvet (d= 'anim., de pl.) Me es certa ke Martin misskribis la vorto. Cetere, me tre= prizas l' ecelant aspekto di vua pagino: http://idofrancais.free.fr/ Salu= ti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio e= s un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigad= o MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere = Kar Martin En vua interretala Franca-Ido dicionario me trovis la sequanta= defino: duvet : laguno duvet=E9 , duveteux : lagunoza, lagunatra M= a la Franca-Ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront donas: duvet := lanugo duvet=E9, duveteux : lanugoza, lanugatra Ka "laguno" es nova= vorto qua remplasas "lanugo" o simple eroro di vu ? Danko pro vua respo= ndo Amikala saluti Loik [Non-text portions of this message have been= removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1339 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58123 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2004 23:30:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2004 23:30:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2004 23:30:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.112] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Sep 2004 23:30:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:30:13 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <010e01c49db7$63516070$acef5dd5@azalia> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 210 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.65 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] La fingri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Hans Stuifbergen skribis: > Qui savas la Latina equivalanti (di la nomi dil fingri)? Segun amiko qua docas la Latina: - pollex - index - medius - medicus o medici nalis - minimus. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1340 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50950 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2004 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2004 23:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2004 23:51:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 25053 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2004 23:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Sep 2004 23:51:38 -0000 Message-ID: <0a3601c4a0ff$b68e4be0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <15631913.1095868145580.JavaMail.www@wwinf0101> <003701c4a0dc$5bc71700$acef5dd5@azalia> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:56:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Spam Alert: [francidol] Helpo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Hans, Danko pro vua respondo pri la misskribo di Martin. Koncerne l' ecelant aspekto di la pagino: http://idofrancais.free.fr/ , me kredas ke ca *sito es administrata da Andr� Huot o Raphael Pinson Me probos kontaktar li nam li ne plu skribas che francidol depos longatempe. Saluti amikala Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "H. Stuifbergen" � : Cc : Envoy� : mercredi 22 septembre 2004 21:42 Objet : [linguo] Re: Spam Alert: [francidol] Helpo Kara Loik, Ido-Fran�aise da J. Guignon (1924), donas: lanugo - duvet (d'anim., de pl.) Me es certa ke Martin misskribis la vorto. Cetere, me tre prizas l' ecelant aspekto di vua pagino: http://idofrancais.free.fr/ Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Kar Martin En vua interretala Franca-Ido dicionario me trovis la sequanta defino: duvet : laguno duvet� , duveteux : lagunoza, lagunatra Ma la Franca-Ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront donas: duvet : lanugo duvet�, duveteux : lanugoza, lanugatra Ka "laguno" es nova vorto qua remplasas "lanugo" o simple eroro di vu ? Danko pro vua respondo Amikala saluti Loik [ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1341 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65337 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2004 14:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2004 14:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.72) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2004 14:22:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:22:04 -0700 Received: from 195.92.67.74 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:21:53 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:21:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2004 14:22:04.0972 (UTC) FILETIME=[08235EC0:01C4A30B] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.72 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] La prefixo "para" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Don Segun me, nia prefixo para- ne es apta por tradukar "paralympics". Ma ni darfas propozar nova vorto *paralimpiado (me ne kontrolis omna fonto-lingui). Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home A Special Message to all our English Co-Religionists from the Rev. Dubya Bush, First Church of Latter-Day Morons "Brothers and Sisters in the Lord, I tell you the day is at hand, that day of which we read in the mighty book of the Prophet Enron, when the Great Satan shall arise, spreading his axis of evil over the world. And note how close the word 'Satan' is to 'Saddam'. Is that a coincidence? I think not, brethren! I ask you all to join with me, along with your pastor, my good friend Rev. Blair, to take up the sword and cast out these Satanic devils as they deserve. For it is written, 'Go forth and kick ass. Thus saith the Lord.' And if he doesn't, then I do! God bless America and no-one else. Here endeth the world." - Private Eye >From: Don Gasper >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] La prefixo "para" >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:16:51 -0700 (PDT) > >Kara linguisti/lingueri, > >Kad en Ido ni darfas parolar pri la "paraolimpiki"? > >Kordiale, > >Don > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1342 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64393 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2004 05:27:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2004 05:27:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2004 05:27:41 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i8Q5Rb25000815 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:57:38 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i8Q5RalO000812 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:57:36 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:57:36 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: RE: [linguo] La prefixo "para" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 2004-09-25 14:21 -0000, James Chandler skribis: > Kara Don > > Segun me, nia prefixo para- ne es apta por tradukar "paralympics". Ma ni > darfas propozar nova vorto *paralimpiado (me ne kontrolis omna > fonto-lingui). La "para" en "Para-Olympics" venas (se me ne eroras) de "paraplegia", ube la prefixo signifikas "mi-" (duime). Do forsan on unesme trovez Ido vorto pri "paraplegia". Ma, fakte, ta ludi relatas le pluramaniere permane afliktita. Me preferus evitar la tota prefixo "para". Forsan la vorto povas esor "parlimpiado" (exemple). Ma me ne amas la junto di du konsonanti. On povas uzar quaze "altra" od "alternativa" od ula abreviuro pri talo kun "olimpiado". -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1343 Return-Path: <100024.1005@compuserve.com> X-Sender: 100024.1005@compuserve.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11708 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2004 19:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2004 19:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO siaag2ah.compuserve.com) (149.174.40.141) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 19:24:04 -0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ah.compuserve.com (8.12.11/8.12.7/SUN-2.17) id i8SJNiip022793 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:22:19 -0400 Sender: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Message-ID: <200409281523_MC3-1-8B22-64CF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 149.174.40.141 From: "R.B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com> Subject: La fingri en la Latina X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=490734 Pri la Latina nomi dil fingri dil manuo, amiko trovis la sequanta informi: Digiti manuum: pollex index/salutaris medius/infamis/impudicus medicus/medicinalis/minimo proximus minimus ['A Latin-English dictionary', John White & J.E. Riddle, Longmans, 1872] Robert. ______ >Hans Stuifbergen skribis: > Qui savas la Latina equivalanti (di la nomi dil fingri)? Segun amiko qua docas la Latina: - pollex - index - medius - medicus o medici nalis - minimus. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI< From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1344 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40473 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2004 22:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2004 22:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.103) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2004 22:14:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Sep 2004 22:14:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:14:21 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 541 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.103 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] La prefixo "para" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Segun mea kompreno, la prepoziciono Greka "para" signifikas "apud". Ca ludi eventas "apud" la ludi olimpika originala. Same, la "A: paramedics" esas homi qui laboras apud la doktori, e "A: paralell" signifikas (segun etimologio) "qua iras o trovesas apud". Forsan ni povus uzar mem la vorto "apud" ipsa, kom prefixo: *apud-olimpiki. E same, *apud-mediko, edc. Konsiderez anke ke ta ludin partoprenas ne nur homi limitizita en la movo, ma anke blindi, exemple, qui nule havas "paraplegia". Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1345 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 41633 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2004 09:19:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2004 09:19:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp2alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.142) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2004 09:19:00 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.50.185.49) by vsmtp2alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 4141A7240017C113 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:19:01 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c4a92b$01066260$31b93252@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:26:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.216.176.142 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Propra Nomi. Traduko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< me opinionas, ke ni devas uzar la vorto "Internet", se ni dicas o skribas pri la interreto Internet. Ya existas diversa altra interreti, exemple Fido... Internet es la nomo dil maxim granda e populara interreto >>> [Vlado - Mesajo 842 a Linguolisto] <<< angla vorto "internet" signifikas "inter-network". Se on tradukas literale aden Ido, on obtenas inter-reto. Ica kompozuro ne bezonas asterisko. Segun me la sufixo -aj es ne-necesa, ma inter-retajo es komprenebla. Altenative, on darfas skribar "internet" en cito-hoketi, o interneto* quo esus tote nova vorto en Ido. Me preferas inter-reto, o simple 'reto. >>> [J. Chandler - Mesajo 1298 a Linguolisto] Mea precedanta remarki, favore di "Internet" netradukata, esis asertiva ma poke explikiva. Por klarigar l'afero, ank a me ipsa, me probos ridepartar de +skracho. ### KELKA RELATI INTER VORTI ### Omni savas quon es la sequanta vorti: SINONIMI: vorti diferanta, qui +sencas esence lo sama (charmiva / ravisanta). HOMONIMI: vorti sama, qui +sencas lo diferanta (artiklo gramatikala / artiklo jurnalala). ANTONIMI: vorti qui +sencas lo kontrea (vivo / morto; bela / leda). Forsan ne omni savas quon es la KAPITONIMI* (1): vorti sama, qui havas senco diferanta, segun ke lia unesma litero es mayuskula o minuskula (Monako princ-lando / monako homo; Merkurio planeto / merkurio elemento kemiala; Kuba insulo / kuba solido). Kapitonimi* es sub-klaso dil homonimi. Me rivenos a to. ### PROPRA NOMI EN IDO ### En Ido la propra nomi omnaspeca, se oli es internaciona, devas ne tradukesar, ma riproduktesar literope (KGD, 24). Exemple, omna sequanta propra nomi, internacione konocata, devas segun me aparar ne-modifikita en Ido: "Amnesty International" [Amnestio Internaciona], mondala organizuro por homala yuri (2); "Belle �poque" [Bela Epoko], epoko di gayeso, de cirkum 1870 a 1914; "Notre Dame de Paris" [Nia Siorino di Paris], famoza katedralo en Paris; "La Scala di Milano" [L'Eskalero di Milano], famoza teatro en Milano (3); "El Escorial" [La Skori-Amaso ?], grandega palaco ne tre fora de Madrid; "Magna Carta" [Granda Charto], charto dil liberesi en Anglia; e.c. ... (4). Lo sama valoras por certena abreviuri internaciona, qui havas karaktero di propra nomo: "BASIC " programo komputorala (Beginners All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code) ne darfas divenar "KOSIK" (Komencanti Omna-Skopa Simbolika Instrukto Kodexo) o altro. "WWW" (World Wide Web) ne darfas divenar TTT (Tote Terala Telo ?) e.c. ... ---------- Kande originala propra nomo ne havas difuzo internaciona, ma existas traduko en singla AFGHIR, ank en Ido darfas/devas existar traduko. Yen ula exempli. ## RICHARD LEON-KORDIO (rejo di Anglia): A Richard Lion Heart. F Richard Coeur de Lion. G Richard L�wenherz. H Ricardo Coraz�n de Le�n. I Riccardo Cuor di Leone. R Richard Lvinoye Syerdcye. ## SIDANTA TAURO ("Tatanka-Iyotanka", chefo Redpela): A Sitting Bull. F Taureau Assis. G Sitezender Bulle. H Toro sentado. I Toro Seduto. R Sidyashchiy Bik. ## NIGRA MARO (extensajo de aquo interna, inter Asia ed Europa): A Black Sea. F Mer Noire. G Schwarze Meer. H Mar Negro. I Mar Nero. R Chyornoye Morye. ## LA KRIO (pikturo da Edvard Munch, recente furtita de muzeo en Oslo): A The Scream (The Cry). F Le Cri. G Der Schrei. H El Grito. I L'Urlo (Il Grido). R Krik. e.c. ... ---------- Propra nomi ne nur devas ne tradukesar, oli devas ne mem Idigesar (5): "pri la propra nomi... la preskripti di la Komitato esas...: skribar nomi en lia originala formo ed ortografio..." (Pro V, 1910, 44). ### RACIONALO ### Esas plura motivi por ne tradukar propra nomi en Ido (fakte anke por ne tradukar oli en linguo naturala, maxim-ofte). a) Pro moderneso. Tendenco tradukar propra nomi de una ad altra linguo es nun tre reduktita, konfronte olta mez-epokala e posa. b) Pro facileso. Importanta qualeso dil Linguo Internaciona devas esar la facileso. Lo ne kontributas a la facileso, devar lernar la tota vortaro, ante "divinar" ke "TTT" (Tote Terala Telo) esas enigmata traduko di internaciona "WWW" (World-Wide-Web). c) Pro ne-ambigueso. Se on parolas traduke pri jurnalo "La Mondo", on ne savas ka traktesas pri Franca "Le Monde", o Germana "Die Welt", o Hispana "El Mundo", o Italiana "Il Mondo"... d) Pro ne-miskompreno. Se on raportas traduke ke Andreas videsis vagar en la "viteyo di Martha", onu povas pensar ke Andreas havis rendevuo kun Martha en elua viteyo, kontre ke il esis simple vizitanta kom turisto "Martha's Vineyard", pitoreska insulo, distanta de 7 milii de la mar-bordo dil Massachusetts. e) Pro uniformeso. Se on +listas la Stati Usana, esas bizareso tradukar le poka facile tradukebla (Florida a Floroza, Nevada a Nivoza...), e ne tradukar le mult altra des-facile tradukebla. f) Pro seriozeso. Nur pro joko on povas dicar "Prezidanto Arbusto" od "Interreto Explorilo, produktata da Mikromolajo di Konto Pordi". g) Pro logiko. Maxim-ofte tradukar propra nomo es simple sen-senca, pro ke la nomo ipsa ne havas senco en su. Diferante kam "bush" (arbusto), "Bush" +sencas nulo en su; "Bush" es intersequo di quar latina literi, +quu simple signifikas (indikas) en pertinenta* [pertinent, Roze] kuntexto l'aktuala prezidanto dil USA. [Pri poka linguo-filosofio, e pri difero inter senco e signifiko me parolos en nexta mesajo.] ### INTERNET ### Koncerne INTERNET, segun-semble existas en Angla du vorti kapitonima*: "internet" kun "i" minuskula: komuna (generala) nomo; "Internet" kun "I" mayuskula: propra (singulara) nomo. �� Angle ULA "internet" ("i" minuskula) es irga ensemblo di "computer network" (komputor-reto). Extreme simpligante, plura komputori interkonektita konstitucas un "computer network" [un komputor-reto: depende de l'extenseso, existas "lokala komputor-reti", "metropolala komputor-reti", "vast-area komputor-reti"]. Plura "computer-network" interkonektita per "routers" (enstradigili) konstitucas ul "inter-network", o plukortigite ul "internet". Ca "internet" ("inter-network" plukurtigita) povas tradukesar en Ido per "interreto" [lektez: "reti-reto"], quale skribas J. Chandler, o forsan "interretajo", quale sugestas M. Talbot-Wilson (6). �� Angle e internacione LA "Internet" ("I" mayuskula) es partikulara sorto di "internet" (quale skribas Vlado), fakte la maxim ampla e konocata sorto, karakterizita per la sequanta partikularesi: - ol es internaciona (ol konektas praktike komputor-reti di la tota mondo); - ol es publike acesebla; - ol uzas certena komuniko-protokolo, nomata TCP/IP; - ol ofras a l'uzanti certena utilaji, quale elektronikala posto, retala babiladi, omna-sorta informi per la World-Wide-Web... Ca "Internet", kom propra nomo ne plus signifikas irga "inter-network"; ol signifikas preciza ento virtuala, kun la supera karakterizivi. Segun uli, ank etimologio di angla "Internet" expresas la precipua propriajo di olta, nome esar "INTERnational NETwork". Kande on referas a ta preciza ento virtuala per lua propra nomo "Internet", ta nomo devas ne tradukesar en Ido, ma riproduktesar tal quala (kun o mem sen cito-hoketi en lo skribita). ### INTERRETO PRO ANTONOMAZIO ### Do segun me on devas ne tradukar "Internet". Tamen, quoniam* [since, Roze] "Internet" es la maxim ampla e konocata e uzata "interreto", okazione on darfas referar a "Internet" kom a la "Interreto", o forsan plu bone la "Reto", pro antonomazio. Me ipsa foye agas lo (7). Esez klara ke uzar "Interreto" o "Reto" pro antonomazio es logike e praktike tre diferanta kam tradukar ne-tradukenda "Internet": - logike diferanta pro ke la legitima nomo en Ido devas restar "Internet", quale ol restas en omna AFGHIR (me konjektas ank en le maxim multa ne-AFGHIR); - praktike diferanta pro ke ca figuro retorika devas uzesar ne exkluzive quale traduko, ma spareme quale precize figuro retorika. ### KONKLUZO ### Mea konkluza personala vid-punto es la sequanta. Komuna nomo "internet" (irga reto di komputor-reti) darfas tradukesar a "interreto". Propra nomo "Internet" (partikulara globala reto di komputor-reti) devas restar ne-tradukita. Nur okazione on povas nomar la "Internet" kom "interreto" o simple "reto" pro antonomazio. Kom adjektivi, "retala" o "interretala" sonas forsan plu bone kam "Internetala". ---------- P.S. Pri LASER ("Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation"), quaze propra nomo (8), me nur Idigus ol a "lasero" segun-ortografie. Analoge on Idigis RADAR (RAdio Detecting And Ranging) a "radaro". ---------- (1) Kapitonimo* es Idigajo di "capitonym", de Angla "capital" (mayuskulo) e Greka "onoma" (nomo). (2) Me memoras lektir kelka-loke Ido-traduko "Amnestio Internaciona". (3) Titulizis juste sua libreton "La Scala di Milano" H. Stuifbergen. (4) Se necesesas exemplo maxim autoritatoza: - pri "Monna Lisa" [Siorino Lisa] od "La Gioconda" [La Joyoza], famoza portreto da Leonardo, skribis L. Couturat (Pro VII, 1914, 27); - pri "Titanic" [Titanala], granda navo transatlantika, sinkinta en 1912, skribis L. Couturat (Pro V, 1912, 465). (5) Kelku skribis kelka-loke: "Polo Gogeno" [Paul Gauguin], "Grinpiso" [Greenpeace], "Biteli" [Beatles]... Gon�alo Neves olim raportis ke Esperantisti misformacas Windows a Vindozo. (6) Pri "interretajo" skribis M. Talbot-Wilson, mesajo 849 a Linguolisto (mesajo lektinda pro la iba expliki teknikala). (7) Antonomazio es figuro retorika, pro +quu on uzas komuna nomo vice propra nomo (o permutite). Exemple, pro antonomazio on dicas "la Bardo", por signifikar William Shakespeare; en la Mez-Epoko on dicis "la Filosofo" por signifikar Aristoteles. (Permutite, pro antonomazio on dicas "Iudas" por signifikar trahizanto, "Cresus" por signifikar homo richega, "Casanova" por signifikar granda seduktero). (8) M. Talbot-Wilson, mesajo 1320 a Linguolisto. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1346 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 91578 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2004 10:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2004 10:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp2alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.142) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2004 10:07:58 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.52.188.50) by vsmtp2alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 4141A7240017C81F for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:07:57 +0200 Message-ID: <000701c4a931$d81716e0$32bc3452@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:15:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.216.176.142 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Propra Nomi. Filosofio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus La sequanta konsideri, pri komuna e propra nomi, es segun me utila komplemento di olti en la precedanta mesajo. ### INTENSESO E EXTENSESO DI KOMUNA NOMO ### Komuna (generala) nomo ("hundo", "urbo") identifikas ul kategorio di enti, di qui adminime du specimeni existas. Komuna nomo karakterizesas per sua "intenseso" e "extenseso" ("intension" e "extension"). INTENSESO (kontenajo, senco) di ula komuna nomo relatas l'ideo (koncepto), +quun ol transmisas. Intenseso korespondas a la defino dil nomo. Intenseso di "urbo" es to quo konstitucas la "urbeso": vasta areo kompakte populizita... Intenseso di "hundo" es to quo konstitucas la "hundeso": mamifero domestika, kun rafinita flarosenso... EXTENSESO (refero, signifiko) di ula komuna nomo relatas l'ensemblo dil enti, a qui la vorto es aplikebla. En l'extenseso di "urbo" eniras irga ento konstitucanta la "urbaro": omna geografiala ento, a +quu la vorto "urbo" es aplikebla (Roma, Paris, London...). En l'extenseso di "hundo" eniras irga ento konstitucanta la "hundaro": omna animalo, a +quu la vorto "hundo" es aplikebla... La difero "intenseso/extenseso" korelatas a la difero "kontenajo/refero" e plue o mine a la difero "senco/signifiko" di ul nomo (1). ### INTENSESO E EXTENSESO DI PROPRA NOMO ### Dum ke komuna nomo relatas plura enti, adminime du, propra (singulara) nomo relatas un singulara ento, un individuo (un homo, un animalo, un kozo). Propra nomo havas "extenseso" e (forsan) partikulara "intenseso". EXTENSESO (refero, signifiko) di propra nomo korespondas a l'individuo (referario), indikata da ta nomo en pertinenta* [pertinent, Roze] kuntexto. Extenseso di "Roma" es ta preciza urbo, olima "caput mundi" (chefo dil mondo), nuna chef-urbo d'Italia e.c. ... INTENSESO (kontenajo, senco) di propra nomo es temo kontroversa, un ek le maxim rebela en moderna filosofio. Pri to existas esence du teorii, nomata "teorii dil refero": deskripto-teorio e etiketo-teorio. �� Deskripto-teorio. Teorio FREGEANA [Gottlob Frege] (2) Ul individuo (un homo, un animalo, un kozo) povas indikesar per du manieri: - per propra nomo: monto "Everest"; - per definita deskripto: "la maxim alta monto dil Tero". Definita deskripto identifikas ul individuo, per explicitigar certena proprajo/i dil individuo ipsa, quala esar "la maxim alta monto dil Tero". Propra nomo, segun la deskripto-teorio, identifikas ul individuo per deskripto implicita, enkorpigita en la nomo ipsa (3). Altra-dice propra nomo expresas ul deskriptiva senco, per +quu facesas la refero; propra nomo es disimulata deskripto (4). Segun ca teorio, monto "Everest" esas quale abreviuro di "la maxim alta monto dil Tero". Implicita deskripto reprezentas la INTENSESO (kontenajo, senco) dil propra nomo. Ol es la konceptala voyo, per +quu de la nomo on arivas a l'individuo nomata: "nomo -> deskripto -> individuo". La kozi iras quale se en la lerno-procedo la homi lernas propra nomo di ul individuo, asociata a certena propriajo/i dil individuo ipsa. Depose omna-foye ke la nomo uzesas, ek-vokesas en la mento la lernita deskripto e mediace olu la homi identifikas l'ento nomata (5). Semantike, definita deskripto e propra nomo ne diferas esence, e povas uzesar permuteble. "Everest", en pertinenta* kuntexto, e "la maxim alta monto dil Tero" +sencas lo sama (havas sama intenseso), e signifikas lo sama (havas sama extenseso). �� Etiketo-teorio. TEORIO MILLANA [John Stuart Mill]. Segun etiketo-teorio, anke nomata "teorio dil refero direta", propra nomo ne kontenas ula implicita deskripto. Ol es etiketo aplikita a individua ento, ne-dependanta de irga atributo dil ento ipsa. Lua refero a individua ento es direta, sen mediaco di ula deskripto. "Everest" ne es abreviuro di "la maxim alta monto dil Tero", ma es nura partikulara aranjo di literi, indikanta quale per fingro, en pertinenta* kuntexto, certena monto dil Tero. Propra nomo ne havas intenseso (kontenajo, senco) ma nur extenseso (refero, signifiko). Identifiko dil individuo nomata facesas direte: "nomo -> individuo". La kozi iras quale se originala nomizo asignas un foye por sempre etiketa nomo a ul individuo (persono, kavalo, navo, lando, planeto...) e la kunligo nomo/referario transmisesas a la posa parolanti per "kateno kauzala", de ti qui savas a ti qui lernas [Saul Kripke] (6) . Semantike propra nomo e definita deskripto ne havas sama valoro. Segun moderna "modala logiko" e "filosofio dil linguo", propra nomo es "rigida indikanto", definita deskripto es "laxa (ne-rigida) indikanto" ("rigid designator", "flaccid designator"). Oli ne sempre povas uzesar permuteble [Saul Kripke]. RIGIDA indikanto es singulara termino, +quu referas a la sama individuo en omna mondo (cirkonstanco) posibla, en +quu ta individuo existas. LAXA indikanto es singulara termino, +quu povas referar a un individuo en un mondo posibla, e ad altru en altra mondo posibla. En reala mondo, propra nomo "Ronald Reagan" e "la 40.sma Prezidanto dil USA", indikas la sama individuo. On povas dicar ne-diferante: - "Ronald Reagan" esabis aktoro ante divenar politikisto; - "la 40.sma Prezidanto dil USA" esabis aktoro ante divenar politikisto. Tamen on povas imaginar ul mondo, ube Ronald Reagan decidis ne kurar por Prezidanto. En tala mondo (cirkonstanco) alternativa, la propra nomo "Ronald Reagan" durus signifikar la sama persono. Ma la definita deskripto "40.sma Prezidanto dil USA" ne plus signifikus homo Ronald Reagan, ol signifikus irga homo +quu fakte sucesis divenar 40.esma Usana Prezidanto. Propra nomo " Ronald Reagan " es rigida indikanto, "40.sma Presidanto dil USA" es laxa indikanto. Difero inter "rigida" e "laxa" indikanto es grava argumento kontre la deskripto-teorio. ### KONSIDERI ### Propra nomi konstitucas vera kap-ruptado de filosofiala vid-punto. Teorio satisfacanta devas solvar plura konceptala desfacilesi, exemple olta pri vakua nomi (7). Nula ek la du supera teorii es komplete satisfacanta: singla solvas ula problemi, e lasas altri ne solvita. Mea-opinione teorio satisfacanta povus esar ula teorio hibrida: exemple ul teorio konsideranta propra nomo kom "etiketo", ma kun kelka "deskripto" implicita. Recente ula Autori semblas irar ta-sinse (Gareth Evans...). Ca kaptiva temon me nur entamis, e nur kom profano. Me nur volis montrar ke propra nomo: - sive ne havas senco (etiketo-teorio); - sive havas partikulara senco, ne dependanta de lua etimologio (deskripto-teorio). To segun me havas konceptala impliko en la traduko di propra nomi. ---------- (1) Ca temo traktesis en Idia da Louis Couturat (Pro VI, 1913, 80) e recente da Gon�alo Neves (che lua ret-situo, ed en mesajo 5631 a Idolisto). (2) Anekdoton pri Gottlob Frege me raportis en mea mesajo 1010 a Linguolisto. (3) Implicita deskripto maxim-ofte ne korespondas a la etimologio dil nomo. Ofta exemplo en linguo-filosofio es la urbo "Dartmouth" ("ye la boko dil rivero Dart"). De linguo-filosofiala vid-punto ne importas ka la urbo esas fakte nun ye la boko dil rivero o ne. (4) Deskripto implicita en propra nomo povas esar asemblo ("grapo", "cluster") di deskripti. Exemple homo Louis Couturat povas indikesar inter altro per la sequanta definita deskripti (propraji): - maxim eminenta idisto mortinta pro voyo-acidento ye 3 Agosto 1914; - sekretario dil revuo Progreso de 1908 til 1914; - matematikisto autoro di "Les Principes des Math�matiques"; - autoro di "Studyo pri la derivado en la Linguo Internaciona"... Segun la deskripto-teorio, nomo "Louis Couturat" identifikas homa ento, +quu unika posedas la supera propraji. (5) Parolanti ne devas konocar la tota asemblo ("grapo") di propraji; suficas ke li konocas la maxim multa o mem nur ula de oli. Anke, la parolanti ne devas havar perfekta e direta konoco dil elementi dil asemblo por justa refero; maxim-ofte la parolanti "pruntas" la justa refero de homi, qui havas suficanta konoco. (6) La originala nomizo ("refero-fixigo", "reference fixing") povas esar formala, quala en bapto di persono, lanso di navo, nomizo oficala di lando o planeto... o ne-formala, quale en sen-tempa inventuro jurnalala. La maxim multa uzanti dil nomo ne asistis l'originala nomizo; li lernas de l'asistinti, o de ti qui fidas a l'asistinti... en nedefinita kateno kauzala ("refero-prunto", "reference borrowing"). (7) "Vakua nomi" ne havas refero, pro ke lia referario ne existas en la mondo reala. Ofta exemplo en linguo-filosofio es "Pegasus", la kavalo alizita dil mitologio. Ca-relate la etiketo-teorio es partikulare vundebla. Segun ta teorio, "Pegasus" havas nek intenseso (senco), kom propra nomo, nek extenseso (signifiko), kom ne existanto. Nihilomine* [nevertheless, Roze] frazi quala "Pegasus ne existas" esas ya absolute legitima e sencoza... ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1347 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@firenet.uk.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86273 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2004 22:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2004 22:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2004 22:10:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 82046 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2004 22:07:18 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2004 22:07:18 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.33.98]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000180299.msg for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:09:37 +0100 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:11:20 +0100 Message-ID: <20041010231120.687692@SonyFX805> Delivery-Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:11:20 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:09:37 +0100 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.33.98 X-Return-Path: trober@firenet.uk.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:09:41 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 From: RBC Subject: Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 En la maxim nova Progreso (331), R.A. Stevenson komentas pri "Problematra v= orti en Ido". Pri "brodkastar", quan RAS desprizas, lu skribas ke "(radio)= -difuzar" o "(radio)-dissemar" esas totee apta. Me ne konsentas, nam semblas= a me ke la vorto esas tre utila en la moderna mondo. On brodkastas per rad= io e televiziono. Existas programi, koncerti, diskursi, diskuti, interviuvi= , servi e teatraji brodkastala. On parolas pri brodkasti e qualeso brodkast= ala. La vorti "dissemo" e "difuzo" esas tro generala, ma "televiziono-difuz= o" esas tro longa. "Morge ni brodkastos informi pri ..." ne esas sama kam "= Morge ni difuzos (o dissemos) informi pri ..." Pri "kodexo", qua havas ank= e senco legala, me tote konsentas ke esus plu bona havar nova vorto "kodo" = apud "kodexo" por la tote diferanta senci. Pri "quik", me anke ne esas kon= tenta pri ol, ma "nemediate" esus mala remplasajo. Videz Pesch, p. 362, e D= yer, p. 218: "ne-mediat-a: immediate: without intervention of another objec= t, cause or agency" (sen interveno di altra objekto, kauzo o agenteso). Do,= "Lu aranjis ol nemediate" ja havas senco qua relatas nek spaco nek tempo (= =3D "Lu aranjis ol sen interveno di altra objekto, kauzo o agenteso"), ed e= sus tote absurda se ol samtempe havus la senco "Lu aranjis ol quik". Pri "= kloko" me kredas ke esus plu bona se ni chanjus olua senco, tale ke "kloko"= signifikus instanto di tempo, por distingar ol de periodo di tempo. Ja esi= s simila propozo (en Progreso?). "Esas tri (hori) kloke" signifikus instant= o (quale indikata horloje - tri hori pos noktomezo (o jornomezo). Simile, = "Qua esas la tempo?" esus questiono pri periodo, a qua on forsan respondus,= "Esas ja quar hori" (ja pasis periodo de quar hori depos ula punto pri qua= questionanto e respondanto pensas). "Qua esas la kloko?" koncernus la (nu= na) instanto. On povus respondar exemple, "Esas tri hori e duadek minuti." = Se on ne respondus questiono, on povus subite dicar, "Esas quar kloke, e ni= mustas nun departar". Pri "projeto" (e "projetar"), me ne konsentas, pro = ke "plana" e "plata" ne havas sama senco, e pro ke la vorto "plano" ja exis= tas en Ido por senco geometriala (qua esas internaciona?), ed en vorti qual= e "biplano" (anke internaciona?) por qui ne ofresas alternativo. On bezonas= konsiderar omna senci ed uzi dil nuna vorti ed ofrar bona alternativi por = omni, altrakaze on produktus nova problemi per propozita chanjo. Pri "skop= o" (ed "emo"), ed "archo" ed "arko", tote ne esas klara a me qua esas la pr= oblemo, ecepte ke li esas "falsa amiki" por parolanti di la Angla linguo. E= sas sat multa tala vorti. Existas nula simpla solvo. Robert. P.S. En la a= rtiklo mencionita: 1. "slavatra" mustas supozeble esar "sklavatra". 2. "vic= e sugestas" mustas esar "sugestas vicee" ["vice" esas prepoziciono, ne adve= rbo]. 3. "signifikas amba ta dokumento ..." probable mustas esar "... ambe = ..." [adjektivo semblas neapta hike]. 4. "Vice, ..." mustas esar "Vicee, ..= ." ["vice esas adjektivo]. 5. "la temo qua on lektas" mustas esar "la tempo= quan on lektas". 6. "bezonas 2 hori atingar Paris" mustas esar "... por at= ingar Paris". 7. "En angla" ed "En Franca" prefere esus "En la angla" ed "E= n la Franca" (e prefere uzante minuskulo o mayuskulo ambakaze) 8. "havar so= rgo" (Angle: "have care"?) prefere esus "sorgar". From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1348 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59387 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2004 00:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2004 00:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2004 00:16:48 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9B0GfGh003210 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:46:42 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i9B0GeeS003207 for ; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:46:40 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:46:40 +0930 (CST) To: Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <20041010231120.687692@SonyFX805> Message-ID: References: <20041010231120.687692@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 2004-10-10 23:11 +0100, RBC skribis: > ... > Pri "quik", me anke ne esas kontenta pri ol, ma "nemediate" esus > mala remplasajo. Videz Pesch, p. 362, e Dyer, p. 218: "ne-mediat-a: > immediate: without intervention of another object, cause or agency" > (sen interveno di altra objekto, kauzo o agenteso). Do, "Lu aranjis > ol nemediate" ja havas senco qua relatas nek spaco nek tempo (= "Lu > aranjis ol sen interveno di altra objekto, kauzo o agenteso"), ed > esus tote absurda se ol samtempe havus la senco "Lu aranjis ol > quik". > ... Me opinionas ke "quik" esas un ek la maxim bela ed uzinda pronomi di Ido. Ol ja esas falsa amiko ad Angla-parolanti, ma lo semblas a me nur mikra problemo. -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1349 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87537 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2004 17:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2004 17:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp05.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.145) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2004 17:25:02 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id A2C5B9F51; Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:24:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c4afb7$3d422ec0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:24:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.145 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Progreso-326 (septembro - decembro 2002) ed Progreso-311 (septembro - decembro 1997) esas nun kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Balde sequos la dijitala edituro di Progreso-330 . Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Hans Stuifbergen e Ronald Bijtenhoorn, La redakteri di Progreso --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 8-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1350 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68810 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2004 04:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2004 04:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.144) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2004 04:20:32 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041012042031.FILT1878.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:20:31 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041012042026.BBAA27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:20:26 +1300 To: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:20:25 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041012042026.BBAA27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.144 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara RBC ed amiki, (1) Danko por la komenti pri mea artikleto en :=94Progre= so=94. Me anke regretas plura erori e donas danko por la helpo. Pro l=92am= pla Ido vortaro ja existas (ordinara) radiki ed on rare bezonas nova vorto.= Quale me ja asertas, parolanti di Romana lingui ne amas l=92Angla vorto = =93broadcast=94 e do l=92Ido =93brodkastar=94 (leda por me). Lore e hodie l= i uzas deriviti di =93emisar=94, =93difuzar=94 e =93dissemar=94, evidente s= en problemo. Tempope on povas skribar =93radio-difuzar=94 o =93tele-difuza= r=94 por plusa informo. Anke la kuntexto ofte suficas. (2) En la Raporto di= l=92Akademio (1937) on sugestas la vorto =93strax=94 =3D =93sen ajorno=94.= Evidente ta vorto ne adoptesis e Guenter Anton dicas ke en la Germana, la = vorto =93stracks=94 existas ma nuntempe es apene uzata. Forsan =93strax=94 = povas =3D =93quik=94. (3) Dum plura yari me studiis Esperanto, ma me ride= skovris Ido kun alejo, pro ke nia linguo uzas la saja =93vort-ordinala=94 m= etodo di frazala konstruktado. En Esperanto on mustas egardar omnatempe la = finali por l=92akuzativo o la pluralo. Tamen, es deceptanta ke en Ido ni an= kore trovas tala finali obliganta por la relativa pronomo. Moderna Romana l= ingui, ed en l=92Angla, ne egardas kazo o nombro se l=92antecedento esus ap= ud la pronomo. Tala regulo en Ido tote modernigos nia linguo. Komprenende = on povas uzar la existanta regulo se la pronomo esus fora de l=92antecedent= o. (Anke me ne facos plusa erori!) (4) Me mencionas =93emo=94 e =93skopo=94= por ke en la Romana lingui =93skopo=94 semblas signifikar amba =93punto vi= zata=94 e la plu larja =93extenseso di temo=94. Amikale, Richard S. > >= From: RBC > Date: 2004/10/11 Mon AM 11:11:20 GMT+1= 3:00 > To: Linguolisto > Subject: [linguo] Ko= menti en Progreso pri ula vorti > > [Non-text portions of this message = have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1351 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1696 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2004 19:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Oct 2004 19:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Oct 2004 19:24:26 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20041012192359.ZLEM4178.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:23:59 +0200 Message-ID: <005501c4b090$e578e0a0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <20041012042026.BBAA27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:23:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.27 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Richard, vu skribis: " (3) Dum plura yari me studiis Esperanto, ma me rideskovris Ido kun alejo, pro ke nia linguo uzas la saja "vort-ordinala" metodo di frazala konstruktado. En Esperanto on mustas egardar omnatempe la finali por l'akuzativo o la pluralo. Tamen, es deceptanta ke en Ido ni ankore trovas tala finali obliganta por la relativa pronomo. Moderna Romana lingui, ed en l'Angla, ne egardas kazo o nombro se l'antecedento esus apud la pronomo. Tala regulo en Ido tote modernigos nia linguo. Komprenende on povas uzar la existanta regulo se la pronomo esus fora de l'antecedento. (Anke me ne facos plusa erori!)" Ka vu povas donar exempli di finali obliganta por relativa pronomo. E di antecedento apud pronomo. Predanki, Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Kara RBC ed amiki, (1) Danko por la komenti pri mea artikleto en :"Progreso". Me anke regretas plura erori e donas danko por la helpo. Pro l'ampla Ido vortaro ja existas (ordinara) radiki ed on rare bezonas nova vorto. Quale me ja asertas, parolanti di Romana lingui ne amas l'Angla vorto "broadcast" e do l'Ido "brodkastar" (leda por me). Lore e hodie li uzas deriviti di "emisar", "difuzar" e "dissemar", evidente sen problemo. Tempope on povas skribar "radio-difuzar" o "tele-difuzar" por plusa informo. Anke la kuntexto ofte suficas. (2) En la Raporto di l'Akademio (1937) on sugestas la vorto "strax" = "sen ajorno". Evidente ta vorto ne adoptesis e Guenter Anton dicas ke en la Germana, la vorto "stracks" existas ma nuntempe es apene uzata. Forsan "strax" povas = "quik". (4) Me mencionas "emo" e "skopo" por ke en la Romana lingui "skopo" semblas signifikar amba "punto vizata" e la plu larja "extenseso di temo". Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1352 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22125 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2004 04:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Oct 2004 04:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.145) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2004 04:33:05 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041013043253.JWKK15448.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:32:53 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041013043252.EIRM13668.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:32:52 +1300 To: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:32:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041013043252.EIRM13668.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.145 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Hans, En l=92Angla la kazi preske desaparas. Ecepte la personala prono= mi, ni ankore havas =93whose=94 (di qua) e =93whom=94 (quan). =93Whose=94 t= ransvivas ma =93whom=94 en ordinara uzado, gradoze diminutas. Tamen prepozi= cioni en l=92Angla guvernas l=92akuzativo, do =93for whom=94 (por qua), = =93by whom=94 (da qua) edc. Kustume anglaparolanti, por relativa pronomi, n= un uzas la neutra =93who=94 (qua) por viventi o =93that=94 o =93which=94 (q= uo) por la senvivanti. Tala vorti ne montras kazo o nombro e me kredas ke I= do divenos plu facila se on adoptus la sama aranjo. Me sugestas ke kande l= a pronomo es apud l=92antecedento, on uzas =93qua=94 senchanjita. La necesa= kazo o nombro existas en l=92antecendento. Exemple: =93La viro qua parolis= .=94 (Nominativo). =93La viro qua vu vidis=94 (quankam =93la viro=94 es en= l=92akuzativo, la pronomo =93qua=94 pro apudeso ne bezonas la =93n=94 ) T= amen, se la antecedento esus for la pronomo, ni povas skribar =93La viro k= un bruna surtuto e verda chapelo quan vu vidis=94. Me ne savas se la Nederl= anda linguo mustas ridicar la kazo o nombro di substantivo per relativa pro= nomo. En l=92Hispana ni havas =93que=94 kun senco di =93qua, quan, qui, qui= n=94. Exemple: =93=85el ojo percibara las ondulaciones que discurren=85..= =94 La pronomo ne bezonas montrar kazo e nombro pro apudeso. En la Franca= ni havas =91=92qui=94 por =93qua=94 o =93quan=94. Exemple: =93=85.il mit e= n service une locomotive qui est le premier vehicule=85=94 La =93qui=94 ne = chanjas pro ke ol esas apud la antecedento, quankam ol es en l=92akuzativo.= Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "H. Stuifbergen" > = Date: 2004/10/13 Wed AM 08:23:03 GMT+13:00 > To: > Subject: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti > > [Non-= text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1353 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81681 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2004 08:44:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2004 08:44:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 08:44:23 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B1BF56D30; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:44:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00e201c4b1ca$00f4f460$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:44:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala (322+324) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Hodie me enretigis: Progreso 324 - (januaro - aprilo 2002) - 2.893 kB Progreso 322 - (mayo - agosto 2001) - 2.460 kB Ambe esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.776 / Virus Database: 523 - Release Date: 12-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1354 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15704 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2004 14:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2004 14:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (65.54.186.82) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 14:56:45 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:54:08 -0700 Received: from 213.166.17.21 by by16fd.bay16.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:53:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:53:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2004 14:54:08.0598 (UTC) FILETIME=[A88EA760:01C4B1FD] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 65.54.186.82 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: [ido] "La kroniko di Njal" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Hans St. skribis che Idolisto: >"La kroniko di Njal" es rakonto pri Njal (pron.: 'nayaul'), Islandana >advokato. La rakonto eventas cirkum la yaro 1300 en Islando. La rakonto >esas >pri venjar violenteso en anciena mondal Islando. Dum ke Islando havas >sistemo de legi e judiciala sistemo, la lego ne es exekutata. Co igas >replikar dal Islandana socio per juri e vigilado-judiciado. Me remarkigas la vorto "violenteso". Ico devas esar "violento", ma me opinionas ke l'eroro da Hans es tote naturala, nam nia vorto "violento" (sb) es nenaturala formo. Ni devas chanjar ol ad: violent/a (adj) violent/eso (sb) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1355 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@firenet.uk.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25753 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2004 21:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Oct 2004 21:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 21:05:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 44039 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2004 21:02:05 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2004 21:02:05 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.32.250]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000208803.msg for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:05:14 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:32:46 +0100 Message-ID: <20041013223246.177308@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20041013043252.EIRM13668.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> Delivery-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 22:32:45 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:05:14 +0100 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.32.250 X-Return-Path: trober@firenet.uk.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:05:15 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 From: RBC Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Kara Richard, Ka la Franca ne distingas inter "qua" e "quan"? Segun lexik= o Angla-Franca: A: my aunt who lives in London =3D F: ma tante qui habite a= ` Londres A: my aunt, whom I love dearly =3D F: ma tante, que j'aime tendr= ement Irgakaze, en ta lingui, e divers altra lingui, ula pronomi havas for= mi diferanta por nominativo ed akuzativo. Tamen Ido uzas sama formo di pron= omo. Ido anke permisas plu libera vort-ordino kam en ta lingui. Tale, en I= do "La viro qua vu vidis" =3D "La viro qua vidis vu" (videz KGD, pagini 102= -3); "La viro quan el vidis" =3D "La viro quan vidis el". Se, segun vua pr= opozo, on skribus "qua" mem kande ol esas direta komplemento o objekto e pr= eiras la subjekto, la frazo "La viro qua vu vidis" esus ambigua! Alternati= ve, on povus distingar la senci per "La viro qua vu vidis" ed (1) "La viro = qua vidis vu" (perdante ula libereso di vort-ordino) o (2) "La viro qua vun= vidis" (donante al pronomo la tasko chanjar!). On certe povas havar lingu= o sen indiko di kazo per altra formo di vorto, ma lore la vort-ordino ne po= vas esar libera. Propozi di "simpligo" di qua/quan ignoras aspekto konsequa= nta. Robert. Vu skribis [me komentas]: >=A0Me sugestas ke kande la pron= omo es apud l=92antecedento, on uzas [UZEZ] >=A0=93qua=94 senchanjita [SEN = CHANJO o NECHANJITA]. La necesa kazo o nombro existas en >=A0l=92antecenden= to. Exemple: >=A0=93La viro qua parolis.=94 =A0(Nominativo). >=A0=93La viro= qua vu vidis=94 (quankam =93la viro=94 es en l=92akuzativo, la >=A0pronomo= =93qua=94 pro apudeso ne bezonas la =93n=94 ) ... >=A0En la Franca ni hav= as =91=92qui=94 por =93qua=94 o =93quan=94. >=A0Exemple: =93=85.il mit en s= ervice une locomotive qui est le premier >=A0vehicule=85=94 La =93qui=94 ne= chanjas pro ke ol esas apud la antecedento, >=A0quankam ol es en l=92akuza= tivo. [Ma hike "locomotive" esas objekto e "qui" esas subjekto. On skribas= en Ido: "Il pozis ye servo lokomotivo qua esas la ...", NE "quan". La vort= o "lokomotivo" esas objekto di "il" per verbo "pozis", ma la vorto "qua" es= as subjekto dil verbo "esas". Ka vu komprenas nun pro quo vu ofte misuzas "= quan" ube "qua" esas korekta?] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1356 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89766 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2004 21:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Oct 2004 21:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13308.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.44) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Oct 2004 21:59:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20041015215905.71616.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.97] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:59:05 CEST Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:59:05 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.44 From: Partaka Subject: RE: l' Okcitana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara Hans: Exkuzez me pro mea tardega reakto! Me devas aceptar nula merito relate l' vorto "Okcitana"... Unesme: quale me ja dicis, anke me uzabis la formo "Ocitana". Duesme: me lektis ulaloke, da Robert Carnaghan, *Okcitana. Triesme: me konstatis, ke Esperanto havas la formo "Okcitana". E nur quaresmaloke, me elaboreskis la teorio pri "Okcitana" vice "Ocitana", nam ni referas a la "langue d'Oc" (linguo d'Ok, ma ne d'Ots). Do, esez Okcitania ed Okcitana, ma falez nula merito adsur me! Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A > --- En IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, "H. > Stuifbergen" > skribis: > > Kara Partaka, > > > > Me trovis en la libro "A Couturat", odo, da > Andreas Juste, (quan me > > fotokopios e sendos a vu, venanta semanofino), ke > Andreas Juste uzas la > > formo: Okcitana. > > > > Do, me supozas ke vu es korekta pri la nomo di la > linguo, ke ol esez la > > "Okcitana". > > > > Depos nun me uzos ta formo. > > > > Saluti amikala, > > > > Hans St. ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1357 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65635 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2004 20:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2004 20:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp05.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.145) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2004 20:02:05 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 33B9C95C4; Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c4b3bb$0322e010$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.145 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Bunta Garbo e Progreso dijitala (325) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Hodie me enretigis: 1) la Guid-libro por l'expozo 'Bunta Garbo' - 1.073 kB - publikigata en Ido, Nederlandana ed Angla ('Bunta Garbo', projeto di Matti Braun pri la verko di la Ido-autoro Andreas Juste, esis expozita en la Urbo-Muzeo en Amsterdam - 12 mayo - 23 junio 2002) Ol esas lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/buntagarbo/buntagarbo.html 2) Progreso 325 - (mayo - agosto 2002) - 2.609 kB Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went... on vacation. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 15-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1358 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3871 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2004 23:00:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2004 23:00:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13302.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2004 23:00:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20041016230027.8063.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.119] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:00:27 CEST Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:00:27 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, idolisto@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com, ido-linguo@yahoogroups.com, francidol@groupesyahoo.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.38 From: Partaka Subject: Ka "Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara samlinguani: Ube me eroras o quon me ne komprenas relate l' "Patro Nia"? Voluntez informar, me PREGAS! Nam kaze ke me ne eroris e me bone komprenis, existus eroro ne nur en l'Idal "Patro Nia", ma anke en l'Esperantal ed en preske omna "Patro Nia" relatanta ad irga linguo ne-natural. Pensez pri l' "Patro Nia", singlu per sua matro-linguo. Vi ya konstatos, ke, de principe, ni pregas direte a Deo. Por exemplo en la Latina (me citas memorie, pardonez!): "Pater noster qui es in coelli", od en la Hispana: "Padre nuestro que esta's en el cielo", od en la Kataluna: "Pare nostre que esteu en el cel"... Nu, kande ni dic "es, esta's, esteu", evidentesas ke ni referas a "Tu" ("Vos" en la Kataluna), quo sempre relatas kun la duesma persono (singulare o plurale). Ma kande ni pregas en Ido (od en irg altra linguo ne-natural), existas la posibleso konfundar la duesma e la triesma persono, se ni ne uzas la pronomo personal avan la verbo... En Ido, la "Patro Nia" es tale: Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo; tua nomo santigesez; tua regno advenez; ... E ta "qua esas" semblas ambigua sen pronomo (kad on referas al duesma od al triesma persono?). Se me pregus direte a Deo, forsan me dicus: Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! ... Ka vi havos l'afableso helpar me klarigar ica temo? Me PREGAS! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1359 Return-Path: X-Sender: H.Stuifbergen@rijksmuseum.nl X-Apparently-To: Linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99831 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2004 06:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2004 06:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrelay1.kpn.net) (194.151.226.98) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2004 06:25:02 -0000 Received: from [194.151.172.6] (helo=amsterdam1-07.rijksmuseum.intra) by mailrelay1.kpn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1CJ4TV-0003VZ-00 for Linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:25:01 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:25:05 +0200 Message-ID: <2FE32F05ED48B14989013CB1637B9C430C723E@AMSTERDAM1-07.rijksmuseum.intra> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Ka "Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo?" Thread-Index: AcSz0+8fQcYDdbb2S/qFT6L7Phs38AAPec8Q To: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.151.226.98 From: "Hans Stuifbergen" Subject: FW: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Ka "Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77439844 X-Yahoo-Profile: hstuifbergen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yen, interesanta questiono (che la forumo IdoCatal=E1Occitan) di nia amiko = Partaka: -- Kara samlinguani: Ube me eroras o quon me ne komprenas rel= ate l' "Patro Nia"? Voluntez informar, me PREGAS! Nam kaze ke me ne eroris= e me bone komprenis, existus eroro ne nur en l'Idal "Patro Nia", ma anke e= n l'Esperantal ed en preske omna "Patro Nia" relatanta ad irga linguo ne-na= tural. Pensez pri l' "Patro Nia", singlu per sua matro-linguo. Vi ya konst= atos, ke, de principe, ni pregas direte a Deo. Por exemplo en la Latina (me= citas memorie, pardonez!): "Pater noster qui es in coelli", od en la Hispa= na: "Padre nuestro que esta's en el cielo", od en la Kataluna: "Pare nostre= que esteu en el cel"... Nu, kande ni dic "es, esta's, esteu", evidentesas= ke ni referas a "Tu" ("Vos" en la Kataluna), quo sempre relatas kun la due= sma persono (singulare o plurale). Ma kande ni pregas en Ido (od en irg al= tra linguo ne-natural), existas la posibleso konfundar la duesma e la trie= sma persono, se ni ne uzas la pronomo personal avan la verbo... En Ido, l= a "Patro Nia" es tale: Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo; tua nomo santigese= z; tua regno advenez; ... E ta "qua esas" semblas ambigua sen pronomo (kad= on referas al duesma od al triesma persono?). Se me pregus direte a Deo, = forsan me dicus: Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo: Tua nomo santigesez! = Tua regno advenez! ... Ka vi havos l'afableso helpar me klarigar ica temo?= Me PREGAS! P A R T A K A [Non-text portions of this message have been= removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1360 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43155 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2004 10:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Oct 2004 10:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2004 10:51:55 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9HAorDn019678; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:20:54 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i9HAoqY4019675; Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:20:52 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:20:52 +0930 (CST) To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com, ido-linguo@yahoogroups.com, francidol@groupesyahoo.ca In-Reply-To: <20041016230027.8063.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20041016230027.8063.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [ido] Ka "Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 2004-10-17 01:00 +0200, Partaka skribis: > ... > En Ido, la "Patro Nia" es tale: > > Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo; > tua nomo santigesez; > tua regno advenez; > ... > > E ta "qua esas" semblas ambigua sen pronomo (kad > on referas al duesma od al triesma persono?). > > Se me pregus direte a Deo, forsan me dicus: > > Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo: > Tua nomo santigesez! > Tua regno advenez! > ... > > Ka vi havos l'afableso helpar me klarigar ica temo? > Me PREGAS! En du diferanta moderna Anglalingua versioni ("New Revised Standard Version" e "Jerusalem Bible") me trovas "Our Father in heaven" ("Nia Patro en la cielo"). En anciena Anglalingua version (17esma yarcento) me trovas "Our Father which art in heaven" (Nia patro qua [2ma persono singulara] esas en la cielo). La problemo esas ke la Ido verbo ne havas inflexo por la duesma persono. Anke to esas problemo pri la Angla moderna. La anciena Greka esas forte inflexita. Do, forsan, "Nia patro en la cielo" esas maxim bona posibla. Semblas a me ke "Patro nia en la cielo" esas min klara pro ke "Patro" tro distas de "la cielo". Anke "Patro nia, ta qua esas en la cielo" semblas a me bona. La regulala pronomo esas "vu"/"vi". Uzar specala pronomo por signifar intimeso esas esence moderna, e por to Ido "tu" inventesis. Ne posible Deo volas ke existas pronomo "vu" specale por signifikar disteso inter homi. Do: Nia Patro en la cielo, Vua nomo santigesez; Vua regno advenez. Diferanta lingui diferante uzas "!". En la Angla ol signifikas klamo. "Quale le potenta esas falinta!" "Quale tacante sidas la urbo, qua esis plena de habitanti!" Amikale... -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1361 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26460 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2004 20:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2004 20:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13303.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2004 20:07:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20041018200745.36025.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.254] by web13303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:07:45 CEST Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:07:45 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, idolisto@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.39 From: Partaka Subject: Re: Ka "Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Samideano nia, vu qua esas sur la tero: Vua nomo pronuncesez! (Michael) Vua opiniono advenez! ... Kara Michael: Danko pro vua intereso relate ica afero! Segun me, vua "Patro nia, ta qua esas en la cielo" anke ne es bona, nam ibe duras l'ambigueso inter la duesma e la triesma persono. E per "Nia Patro en la cielo" e "Patro nia en la cielo", vu ya intencas solvar la problemo (kaze ke ol existas), tamen, fakte, vu ya eludas "la problemo". Se ni aceptas l'ambigueso dil frazo "Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo,", (?) quale ni povus rezolvar ol? Ni devus facar lo, ne nur pri l' "Patro nia", ma anke relate simila frazi, quin ni mustos uzar irgatempe. Koncernante la moderneso di "tu", me pensas ke ni ya es sat moderna, e do ni darfas tuizar a Deo (per sakra Tuizo), quankam ton devas decidar singlu. Se me ne eroras, l'anciena Romani nur uzis la pronomo personal "tu" por referar al duesma persono en singular. Me kredas ke l' klamo-signo devas uzesar anke yene: Saluto!, Irez!, Til balde!, Ne suciez, filio!, edc. E konseque, anke tale: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! Michael: recevez mea maxim kordial saluto! Amen! P A R T A K A --- Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: --------------------------------- Ye 2004-10-17 01:00 +0200, Partaka skribis: > ... > En Ido, la "Patro Nia" es tale: > > Patro nia, qua esas en la cielo; > tua nomo santigesez; > tua regno advenez; > ... > > E ta "qua esas" semblas ambigua sen pronomo (kad > on referas al duesma od al triesma persono?). > > Se me pregus direte a Deo, forsan me dicus: > > Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo: > Tua nomo santigesez! > Tua regno advenez! > ... > > Ka vi havos l'afableso helpar me klarigar ica temo? > Me PREGAS! En du diferanta moderna Anglalingua versioni ("New Revised Standard Version" e "Jerusalem Bible") me trovas "Our Father in heaven" ("Nia Patro en la cielo"). En anciena Anglalingua version (17esma yarcento) me trovas "Our Father which art in heaven" (Nia patro qua [2ma persono singulara] esas en la cielo). La problemo esas ke la Ido verbo ne havas inflexo por la duesma persono. Anke to esas problemo pri la Angla moderna. La anciena Greka esas forte inflexita. Do, forsan, "Nia patro en la cielo" esas maxim bona posibla. Semblas a me ke "Patro nia en la cielo" esas min klara pro ke "Patro" tro distas de "la cielo". Anke "Patro nia, ta qua esas en la cielo" semblas a me bona. La regulala pronomo esas "vu"/"vi". Uzar specala pronomo por signifar intimeso esas esence moderna, e por to Ido "tu" inventesis. Ne posible Deo volas ke existas pronomo "vu" specale por signifikar disteso inter homi. Do: Nia Patro en la cielo, Vua nomo santigesez; Vua regno advenez. Diferanta lingui diferante uzas "!". En la Angla ol signifikas klamo. "Quale le potenta esas falinta!" "Quale tacante sidas la urbo, qua esis plena de habitanti!" Amikale... -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1362 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7559 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2004 07:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2004 07:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.158) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2004 07:16:10 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041019071556.JNLZ7052.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:15:56 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.136] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041019071556.OVNS27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:15:56 +1300 To: Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:15:56 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041019071556.OVNS27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.158 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, (1) Me prizas vua gramatikala komenti e konsilo. (2) En dicion= ario dil franca me trovas tradukuri: =93qui=94 =3D A: who, whom, which, th= at. =93que=94 =3D A: that, whom, which, what. (3) La citajo en la franca e= sis ek =93L=92automobile sur route=94. Plusa riserchado montras ke semblant= e, la franca ne egardas la kazo di substantivo.La relativa pronomo, specal= e kande apud la antecedento, nur havas neutra formo, evidente =93qui=94 =3D= A: who. whom o which (qua o quan); e =93que=94 =3D A: that (qua o quan), e= sendubite =93que=94 en la hispana. (4) Anke on vidas =93dont=94 (di qua) q= uale relativa pronomo e pro eliziono, existas =93qu=92il, qu=92un, qu=92est= =94 edc. ube la tipo di pronomo es celita. (5) Moderna lingui, quale l=92an= gla e la Romana lingui (ecepte la rumana). per vort-ordino, facile exprima= s la senco, sen kazo-finali. Quankam Ido uzas vort-ordino, la selekto di la= justa relativa pronomo es butstono pro ke on mustas interruptar la fluo d= i la frazo e subite mustas parpensar la kazo di l=92antecedento. Me asertas= ke =93neutra=94 pronomo, pro apudeso, es rare eroriganta. Ma se la pronomo= es for l=92antecedento, on darfas uzar la =93n=94. Ta akuzativala finalo e= s reziduo di Esperanto (e fine de Latina) ed en moderna linguo semblas disp= onebla. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: RBC > Dat= e: 2004/10/14 Thu AM 10:32:46 GMT+13:00 > To: = > Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti > > [Non= -text portions of this message have beenn removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1363 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@firenet.uk.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61916 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2004 21:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2004 21:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2004 21:15:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 1178 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2004 21:11:26 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2004 21:11:26 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.33.171]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000237773.msg for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:15:00 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:42:09 +0100 Message-ID: <2004101921429.437833@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20041019071556.OVNS27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> Delivery-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:42:09 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:15:00 +0100 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.33.171 X-Return-Path: trober@firenet.uk.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:15:01 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 From: Robert Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Kara Richard, No. On ne "mustas parpensar la kazo di l=92antecedento". Yen= , semblas a me, esas vua eroro duranta. Se on dicas, "Ni vidas la kato qua= vidas la muso", la vorto "kato" esas komplemento od objekto direta, ma la = vorto "qua" esas subjekto di la duesma vorto "vidas". (Ni vidas la kato, e = la kato vidas la muso.) Se on dicas, "Ni vidas la kato quan vidas la muso"= , la vorto "kato" esas komplemento od objekto direta, e la vorto "quan" esa= s anke objekto direta. (Ni vidas la kato, e la muso vidas la kato. Od: Ni v= idas la kato qua esas vidata da la muso.) La kazo di "kato" NE guvernas la= kazo di "qua" o "quan", vorto di qua la kazo dependas nur ye olua rolo kun= la vorti "vidas la muso". Ka me sucesis explikar la difero inter uzo di "= qua" ed uzo di "quan"? Robert. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:15:56 +1300, rich.s= teven@xtra.co.nz wrote: > >=A0Kara Robert, >=A0(1) Me prizas vua gramatikal= a komenti e konsilo. >=A0(2) En dicionario dil franca me trovas tradukuri: = =93qui=94 =3D A: who, >=A0whom, which, that. =93que=94 =3D A: that, whom, w= hich, what. (3) La >=A0citajo en la franca esis ek =93L=92automobile sur ro= ute=94. Plusa >=A0riserchado montras ke semblante, la franca ne egardas =A0= la kazo di >=A0substantivo.La relativa pronomo, specale kande apud la antec= edento, >=A0nur havas neutra formo, evidente =93qui=94 =3D A: who. whom o w= hich (qua >=A0o quan); e =93que=94 =3D A: that (qua o quan), e sendubite = =93que=94 en la >=A0hispana. (4) Anke on vidas =93dont=94 (di qua) quale re= lativa pronomo e >=A0pro eliziono, existas =93qu=92il, qu=92un, qu=92est=94= edc. ube la tipo di >=A0pronomo es celita. (5) Moderna lingui, quale l=92a= ngla e la Romana >=A0lingui (ecepte la rumana). per vort-ordino, =A0facile = exprimas la >=A0senco, sen kazo-finali. Quankam Ido uzas vort-ordino, la se= lekto di >=A0la justa relativa pronomo =A0es butstono pro ke on mustas inte= rruptar >=A0la fluo di la frazo e subite mustas parpensar la kazo di >=A0l= =92antecedento. Me asertas ke =93neutra=94 pronomo, pro apudeso, es rare >= =A0eroriganta. Ma se la pronomo es for l=92antecedento, on darfas uzar >=A0= la =93n=94. Ta akuzativala finalo es reziduo di Esperanto (e fine de >=A0La= tina) ed en moderna linguo semblas disponebla. Amikale, =A0Richard >=A0S. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1364 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62601 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2004 01:37:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Oct 2004 01:37:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2004 01:37:47 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.156]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041021013746.FXUW22015.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:37:46 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.135] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041021013745.NLIX27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:37:45 +1300 To: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:37:45 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041021013745.NLIX27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.159 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Danko por vua expliko e pacienteso! Me kredas ke me nun kompre= nas . La refero a la subjekto od a la komplemento di verbo es evidente l=92= importanta faktoro. Mea desquieti pri kazo sendubite es pro ke me olim lern= is Latina e plu tarde Esperanto, ube kazo e l=92obligata vorto-finali es im= portanta. Do me esperas ke la sequanta exempli es justa: (1) =93Ni vidas l= a kato qua vidas=85.=94 (=93qua=94, pro ke =93kato=94 nun es la subjekto di= la duesma verbo). (2) =94La kato quan ni vidas..=94 (=93quan =93 referas a= la kato, la komplemento, e la ordino es inversigita.) Per jokatra plularji= geso di vua frazo, me supozas on darfas skribar: =93Ni vidas la kato qua vi= das la muso qua eniras truo qua celas araneo qua mordas la muso qua mortesk= as=85..=94 Me vere sugestas ke vu povas skribar artikleto en =93Progreso=94= pri la relativa pronomo pro ke me tempope vidas erori (da me ed altri). La= uzado di =93n=94 kun pronomo en la KGD (pag. 38) ne es tre klara (por me, = adminime). Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Robert > Date: 2004/10/20 Wed AM 09:42:09 GMT+13:00 > To: > Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti > >= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1365 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80533 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 20:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 20:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 20:57:04 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id AF22B5D246; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:57:03 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003a01c4b879$b10895e0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:57:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala (330) + Indexo di la enretigita revui Progreso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Hodie me enretigis: 1) Progreso 330 - (januaro - aprilo 2004) - 1.540 kB Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html 2) Indexo di la ja enretigita revui Progreso, qua informas pri autoro/tradukero e titulo di l'artikli http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went... on vacation. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1366 Return-Path: X-Sender: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76218 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2004 17:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2004 17:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2004 17:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 48024 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2004 17:12:31 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2004 17:12:31 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.32.149]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000263110.msg for ; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:17:20 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:51:09 +0100 Message-ID: <2004102122519.290887@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20041021013745.NLIX27493.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> Delivery-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:51:08 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:17:20 +0100 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.32.149 X-Return-Path: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:17:24 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 X-eGroups-From: RBC From: RBC Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Komenti en Progreso pri ula vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Kara Richard, Yes, vua frazo "citita" esas gramatike tote bona. Tamen dum= ke en la Angla linguo on darfas omisar la konjunciono "ke", on ne darfas o= misar ol en Ido (e divers altra lingui). Do: Do, ne "me supozas on darfas = skribar ..." ma: "me supozas KE on darfas skribar ..." Parenteze, remarkez= ke me skribis "dum ke", ne "dum", nam "dum" esas prepoziciono ("dum la yar= o ni lektis ...), dum ke "dum ke" esas konjunciono ("La kato dormis dum ke = la muso manjis la fromajo"). Robert. Vu skribis: >=A0Per jokatra plularji= geso di vua frazo, me supozas on darfas >=A0skribar: =93Ni vidas la kato qu= a vidas la muso qua eniras truo qua >=A0celas araneo qua mordas la muso qua= morteskas=85..=94 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1367 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26408 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2004 01:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2004 01:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13307.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.43) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2004 01:20:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20041024012033.78956.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.186] by web13307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:20:33 CEST Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:20:33 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, idolisto@yahoogroups.com, idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, ido-linguo@yahoogroups.com, francidol@groupesyahoo.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.43 From: Partaka Subject: "Patro Nia": mea konkluzo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, kara samforumani! Me deziras dankar omna ti qui interesesis dal afero pri l' posibla ambiguajo en la "Patro Nia": omna ti qui sendis sua mesajo ed 'opino' relate l' temo, ma anke ti qui nedirete partoprenis ol. Me lektis e-letri da Michael e Vlado (che Idolisto) e da Eduardo ed Adrian ( che Idoespanyol)... Danke oli, me konkluzas ke ni omna konkordas pri l'ambiguajo en l'unesma lineo dil "Patro Nia", tamen, ol konsideresas kom ne tal en la kuntexto e do justifikebla... Segun me, ambiguajo es ambiguajo irgakaze, ed "ambiguajo evitebla es ambiguajo evitenda". Ka ni darfas aceptar, ke Ido es ambigua ibe ube nia matro-lingui ne es? Me kredas ke, se posibla, on must evitar sempre l'ambiguaji e, cakaze, on evitez oli del komenco!, to es, del unesma lineo... Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia en la cielo:" e "Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas konsiderar, respektante admaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: Patro nia, qua en la cielo Tu esas: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! ... Pro quo, do, durigar tal ambiguaji en tala frazi, se on facile pov evitar oli? Irgakaze, nun, ni omna kelke koncias pri l' temo. Singlu agez segun sua KREDO o lingual bezono! *Adeo, Deo! Til balde, homi! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1368 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 70161 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2004 05:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2004 05:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2004 05:37:19 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9O5b8ZY005885 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:07:09 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i9O5b79O005882 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:07:08 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:07:07 +0930 (CST) To: Linguo Listo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: A. "file" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara amiki, Me ne ja trovis satisfacanta vorto di Ido por A. "file" komputorala. Kelki sugestis vorti, ma nula ek li semblis a me bona. Exemplo esas "dokumento". Altri, se me juste komprenas, uzas "indiko", ma anke to ne semblas a me bona. Yen du posibla vorti, (a) "failo", (b) "kodexaro". Amikale... -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1369 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67031 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2004 08:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2004 08:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2004 08:24:52 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id A8D76569F1 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:24:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002601c4b9a2$f0dbe580$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: References: Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:24:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Re: [linguo] A. "file" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Mike, Forsan: - dosiero* - arkivo (komputorala) Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went... on vacation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Talbot-Wilson To: Linguo Listo Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 7:37 AM Subject: [linguo] A. "file" Kara amiki, Me ne ja trovis satisfacanta vorto di Ido por A. "file" komputorala. Kelki sugestis vorti, ma nula ek li semblis a me bona. Exemplo esas "dokumento". Altri, se me juste komprenas, uzas "indiko", ma anke to ne semblas a me bona. Yen du posibla vorti, (a) "failo", (b) "kodexaro". Amikale... -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.781 / Virus Database: 527 - Release Date: 21-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1370 Return-Path: X-Sender: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72886 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2004 21:14:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2004 21:14:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2004 21:14:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 54736 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2004 21:09:59 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2004 21:09:59 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.33.46]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000267615.msg for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:14:46 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:25:01 +0100 Message-ID: <2004102418251.897883@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20041024012033.78956.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> Delivery-Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:25:00 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:14:46 +0100 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.33.46 X-Return-Path: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:14:50 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 X-eGroups-From: RBC From: RBC Subject: Re: [ido] "Patro Nia": mea konkluzo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 En Ido on mustas sempre pronuncar la litero "h", do "l' helpanta" ne esas a= pta. KGD, pagino 19: "Ma on atencez ne elizionar la artiklo, se ol destruk= tas la aspiro di la litero h. Do ne uzez l'homo, l'hosti, ma la homo, la ho= sti." Robert. Partaka skribis: >=A0Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia = en la cielo:" e "Patro nia, >=A0Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas ko= nsiderar, respektante >=A0admaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1371 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41855 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2004 00:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Oct 2004 00:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13308.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.44) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2004 00:21:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20041025002105.22474.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.166] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:21:05 CEST Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:21:05 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2004102418251.897883@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.44 From: Partaka Subject: Ultre l' helpanta varianti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Robert! Vu skribis: En Ido on mustas sempre pronuncar la litero "h", do "l' helpanta" ne esas apta. -Notez ke me skribis "Ultre l' helpanta", e to ya es diferanta kam "Ultre l'helpanta". KGD, pagino 19: "Ma on atencez ne elizionar la artiklo, se ol destruktas la aspiro di la litero h. Do ne uzez l'homo, l'hosti, ma la homo, la hosti." Robert. -Kande me elizionas l'artiklo, me nule destruktas l'aspiro dil litero h. -"Ultre l' helpanta" sonas quale "ULtrel Helpanta". Me simple profitas por elizionar l'artiklo, ne nur kand' ol aparas avan vokalo, ma anke dop vokalo. -Maxim kordiale... P A R T A K A Partaka skribis: >�Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia en la cielo:" e "Patro nia, >�Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas konsiderar, respektante >�admaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1372 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24809 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2004 04:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Oct 2004 04:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2004 04:15:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2004 04:15:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.144] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2004 04:15:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 04:15:21 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041024012033.78956.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4743 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: "Patro Nia": mea konkluzo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Partaka, Forsan me ne bone explikis mea opiniono. Me nule kredas ke = existas ambiguajo en "Patro Nia", pro ke me pensas ke ambiguaji es serchen= da ne en vorti ma en la tota texto. La tota texto montras klare ke la par= olanto adresas Deo, vice parolar PRI Deo ad altri. Forsan l'unesma lineo n= e klarigas lo, ma ya la duesma, e la triesma, ed itere pluse plurfoye. Tam= en, lektez la lasta paragrafo di ca letro. Restas ya nula dubito ke on par= olas AD Deo, vice PRI Deo. [Notez ke *quoniam me ne kredas ke existas ambi= guaji en ta kazi, me uzos cito-hoketi por la vorto "ambigua" e derivaji, p= or indikar ke l'"ambiguaji" esus nur gramatikala, ma nule semantikala.] >= Segun me, ambiguajo es ambiguajo irgakaze, ed "ambiguajo evitebla es ambi= guajo evitenda". Ka ni darfas aceptar, ke Ido es ambigua ibe ube nia matro= -lingui ne es? Me kredas ke, se posibla,, on must evitar sempre l'ambiguaji= e, cakaze, on evitez oli del komenco!, to es, del unesma lineo... Sembla= s existar "ambiguajo" en l'unesma lineo, pro ke ibe (e nur ibe) onu ne pov= as savar ka la verbo "esas" es duesma o triesma persono. Ma to ne importas= pro ke la vera skopo di ula linguo esas komunikar MESAJI neambigue, mem s= e ula parti dil mesajo esas ya "ambigua". E fakte, onu ne povus eliminar s= igla "ambiguajo" de Ido; o se onu ya povus, lo igus Ido ye tro desfacile l= ernebla. Videz kelka exempli: - "Me esas fatigita." Ka parolas viro o mul= iero? Ni ne savas lo per ca frazo izolita, pro ke l'adjektivo en Ido ne "d= esambiguigas" la genro. Ta frazo, tamen, ne esus "ambigua" en multa lingui= Novlatina qui diferigas la genro che maxim mult adjektivi. - "Me skribis= letro." Itere, ka parolas viro o muliero? En la Rusa e l'Ukrainana, anke = matro-lingui (di altra Idisti), en la tempo pasinta indikesas sempre la g= enro (en la singularo) e la numero (ma kurioze ne la persono gramatikala) = dil subjekto. Ka nome di tua principo on ne devus anke evitar ta "ambiguaj= o"? Imaginez quante desfacila devus divenar nia linguo, por ke singla vor= to indikez la genro, la numero e la persono di qui on parolas! To igus nia= linguo ye nelernebla! E lo ne penvalorus, nam onu povas vicee "desambigui= gar" per durar lektar til la nexta lineo. Pluse, remarkez ke gramatikale l= a duesma lineo apartenas a la sama frazo kam l'unesma: "Patro nia qua esas= en la cielo, tua nomo santigesez." Erste hike finas l'unesma frazo. Plus= e, me pensas ke tu demandas ca "desambiguigo" de tua vidpunto kom Hispane-= (o Katalane-) -parolanto e konseque, anke -pensanto. Quanta plusa "desamb= iguigin" povus postular altra linguani de *sia vidpunti diferanta? Me exem= plifis per la kazo di nia vicini Portugalane- parolanta/pensanta, di qui la= linguo postulas "desambiguigar" "vu" maskula (o senhor) de "vu" femina (a= senhora). Altra populi postulas lo sama pri la pronomi "me" o "tu". La Hi= spana, anke pri "ni" e "vi". Certena regioni di *Brazil e Chili "desambigu= igas" tri formi por la duesma persono singulara, segun formaleso, opoze a = nia du formi: "tu" e "vu". Ed en regioni di Hispania, esas du formi por la= duesma persono plurala "vi": "vosotros/as" ed "ustedes". Lingui Novlatina= havas du tempi pasinta simpla: (Hispane: "quisimos" e "quer=EDamos"). Ul= a lingui (exemple la Rusa e la Ukrainana) postulas ke sua verbi indikez l'= aspekto. E tale ni povus durar dum multa pagini. Imaginez do linguo qua de= vus "desambiguigar" to omna! > Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia en la= cielo:" e "Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas konsiderar= , respektante admaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: > Patro nia, qua en la = cielo Tu esas: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! ... Me ne konkorda= s. "Qua" kom pronomo relativa remplasas la subjekto "Patro nia", qua, sual= atere, esas remplasebla per la pronomo "tu". Ica propozajo havas do du str= ukturi aparta ("tu" e "qua") por la sama funciono gramatikal, nome: subjek= to. Malgre omno, forsan ya existas tri indikili qui sugestas ke la verbo = "ESAS" en "Patro nia" esas ya duesma persono. Me ne esas tre certa pri to,= ma forsan altru povas konfirmar to, o korektigar me vicee: * Unesme, la = signo "!" fine dil frazo, ultre klamo, quale indikas Michael TALBOT-WILSON= , sugestas anke la vokativo, qua esas sempre asociata al duesma persono. = * Duesme, l'absenteso di artiklo es anke indikilo di advoko en plura lingu= i. Komparez la Hispana: "Padre nuestro..." (sen artiklo, duesma persono) a= d "... el pan nuestro..." (kun artiklo, triesma persono). * E triesme, la = fakto ipsa ke "Patro nia" esas prego, qua pro sua naturo esas espereble en= duesma persono. Itere me pregas konfirmo o korektigo, precipue pri mea du= esma punto, nam forsan l'uzado dil artiklo en Ido esas diferanta. Amikale= , Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1373 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48210 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2004 07:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Oct 2004 07:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2004 07:54:32 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9P7sGZY012082 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:24:17 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i9P7sCOB012079 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:24:16 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 17:24:12 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: "Patro Nia": mea konkluzo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 2004-10-25 04:15 -0000, Eduardo A. Rodi skribis: > Forsan me ne bone explikis mea opiniono. Me nule kredas ke existas > ambiguajo en "Patro Nia", pro ke me pensas ke ambiguaji es serchenda > ne en vorti ma en la tota texto. La tota texto montras klare ke la > parolanto adresas Deo, vice parolar PRI Deo ad altri. Forsan l'unesma > lineo ne klarigas lo, ma ya la duesma, e la triesma, ed itere pluse > plurfoye. Tamen, lektez la lasta paragrafo di ca letro. Restas ya > nula dubito ke on parolas AD Deo, vice PRI Deo. > > [Notez ke *quoniam me ne kredas ke existas ambiguaji en ta kazi, me > uzos cito-hoketi por la vorto "ambigua" e derivaji, por indikar ke > l'"ambiguaji" esus nur gramatikala, ma nule semantikala.] La ambiguajo qua me sentis relatas nur la vocala prego, to esas, povas esar ambiguajo ad ula audanto. Yen Patro Nia: (1) Qua esas en la cielo? (2) Vua nomo santigesez. (3) ... Dezirinde singla frazo esez unasenca sen ke on audez, lektez o videz ulo od irgo altra kam la vorti ipsa. Amikale... -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1374 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89430 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 05:00:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2004 05:00:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 05:00:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Oct 2004 04:59:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.185] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Oct 2004 04:59:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 04:59:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2370 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.41 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Qua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: > La ambiguajo qua me sentis relatas nur la vocala prego, to esas, povas > esar ambiguajo ad ula audanto. Yen > Patro Nia: > (1) Qua esas en la cielo? > (2) Vua nomo santigesez. > (3) ... > Dezirinde singla frazo esez unasenca sen ke on audez, lektez o videz > ulo od irgo altra kam la vorti ipsa. > Amikale... > -- > Mike TALBOT-WILSON Kara Michael, Permisez a me propozar exerceto. Me pensis pri du frazi en l'Angla qui exemplifas la sama problemo. Pardonez la stulteso di mea frazi, ma me volis frazi same ambigua kam olti di "Patro Nia". Yen oli: 1) "Dear mother, who visited me." (Kara matro, qua vizitis me.) 2) "Dear mother, who visited me?" (Kara matro, qua vizitis me?) Nedicinde, skribe la frazi esas diferanta, nam (2) finas per la signo "?". Tamen, vu bone dicas ke vua timo esas ke amba frazi esos ambigua parole. Voluntez lektar laute amba frazi. Se me esas justa, vu facos pauzo plu longa por la komo di (2) kam por la komo di (1). Pluse, vu pronuncos plu emfazoze la "who" di (2) kam olta di (1). E vua intono tendencos falar pos "mother" en (2), ma ne en (1). Olim me questionis kad existas ula indiko pri quale intonar en Ido. Onu dicis ke no, e ke me bone povus sequar mea intono-maniero Hispana, pro ke l'intono, en la lingui netonala Europana, sequas proxime la sama principi generala. Esas tre desfacila skribar pri intono-teorio a ti qui ne povas audar me, ma me kredas ke tamen, ti qui lektos ta mesajo povos tradukar mea exempli a sua linguo matrala. E li espereble deskovros proxime la sama diferaji inter amba exempli qui permitos interdiferigar li. E kompreneble, me pensas ke la sama principi povas aplikesar ad Ido. Fakte, forsan singla Idisto, dum lektar texto en Ido por su ipsa, pronuncas sua lektaji segun ta principi generala preske universala. Omnakaze, me pensas ke la ambiguajo quan vu indikas konsequas del fakto ke la vorto QUA utilesas per adminime tri signifiki diferanta: 1) kom pronomo questional, ol signifikas "Qua homo?": "Qua venis?" 2) kom adjektivo questional, ol adjuntesas ne nur a substantivi homala, ma anke a substantivi kozala: Qua puero? Qua tablo? 3) kom pronomo relativa, ol anke remplasas sive homo, sive homo: "la puero qua...", "la tablo qua..." Ka to ne esas kontre la regulo di unasenceso? Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1375 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70653 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 20:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2004 20:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13302.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 20:35:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20041026203518.8686.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.224] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:35:18 CEST Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:35:18 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogrroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.38 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: "Patro Nia": mea konkluzo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Maxim kordial saluto, Eduardo! Me intencabas respondar puntope vua suba e-letro, tamen, kande me ja skribabis plura linei, desfortunoze me perdis mea fugema mesajo. To indikas a me, ke me devas respondar vu, ma per plu simpla vorti: mea unesma intenco. Malgre lo, me deziras gratitudar vu pro vua intereso e vua du splendid e long e-letri (la suba ed olta sendita aden Idoespanyol), ube vu ya spensis tempo, energio, cerebro, edc.). Dankego! Me ne pretenas diskutar pri l' "Patro Nia": me simple avertis pri l'ambiguajo quan me kredis trovir en olua unesma lineo. Mea instinto dic ke ibe ulo falias, e ke lo ya es evitebla ed evitenda. La kuntexto es nura helpilo quan ni mustas observar, nur kande lo es absolute necesa e neevitebla. "Nul ambiguajo justifikas altra ambiguajo". Quale me ja skribis en mea unesma epistolo "Patro Nia"-la, ne nur Ido, ma anke Esperanto e preske omna lingui ne-natural sequas la sama skemo che l'unesma lineo, ma nulakaze la lingui natural, quin ofras nula 'dubto' od ambiguajo ibe. Me vizitabis ret-pagino "christus rex", ube trovesas la "Patro Nia" en multa lingui natural e ne-natural... Inter le ne-natural, se me bone memoras, nur la linguo "Unitario" semblas konciar relate l' posibla ambiguajo, quankam me ne savas kad olua solvuro es la maxim bona. Pardonez, Eduardo, ke me ne respondis puntope vua interesantega mesajo: me KREDAS ke lo ETERNIGUS l'afero pri l' "Patro Nia", e me nulakaze pretenabis lo. Me ya intencis konvinkar nulu pri mea sentaji e konvinkaji. Me nur atencigis pri posibla ed evitebla ambiguajo. Til balde! Standez bone! P A R T A K A --- "Eduardo A. Rodi" skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Forsan me ne bone explikis mea opiniono. Me nule kredas ke existas ambiguajo en "Patro Nia", pro ke me pensas ke ambiguaji es serchenda ne en vorti ma en la tota texto. La tota texto montras klare ke la parolanto adresas Deo, vice parolar PRI Deo ad altri. Forsan l'unesma lineo ne klarigas lo, ma ya la duesma, e la triesma, ed itere pluse plurfoye. Tamen, lektez la lasta paragrafo di ca letro. Restas ya nula dubito ke on parolas AD Deo, vice PRI Deo. [Notez ke *quoniam me ne kredas ke existas ambiguaji en ta kazi, me uzos cito-hoketi por la vorto "ambigua" e derivaji, por indikar ke l'"ambiguaji" esus nur gramatikala, ma nule semantikala.] > Segun me, ambiguajo es ambiguajo irgakaze, ed "ambiguajo evitebla es ambiguajo evitenda". Ka ni darfas aceptar, ke Ido es ambigua ibe ube nia matro-lingui ne es? Me kredas ke, se posibla, on must evitar sempre l'ambiguaji e, cakaze, on evitez oli del komenco!, to es, del unesma lineo... Semblas existar "ambiguajo" en l'unesma lineo, pro ke ibe (e nur ibe) onu ne povas savar ka la verbo "esas" es duesma o triesma persono. Ma to ne importas pro ke la vera skopo di ula linguo esas komunikar MESAJI neambigue, mem se ula parti dil mesajo esas ya "ambigua". E fakte, onu ne povus eliminar sigla "ambiguajo" de Ido; o se onu ya povus, lo igus Ido ye tro desfacile lernebla. Videz kelka exempli: - "Me esas fatigita." Ka parolas viro o muliero? Ni ne savas lo per ca frazo izolita, pro ke l'adjektivo en Ido ne "desambiguigas" la genro. Ta frazo, tamen, ne esus "ambigua" en multa lingui Novlatina qui diferigas la genro che maxim mult adjektivi. - "Me skribis letro." Itere, ka parolas viro o muliero? En la Rusa e l'Ukrainana, anke matro-lingui (di altra Idisti), en la tempo pasinta indikesas sempre la genro (en la singularo) e la numero (ma kurioze ne la persono gramatikala) dil subjekto. Ka nome di tua principo on ne devus anke evitar ta "ambiguajo"? Imaginez quante desfacila devus divenar nia linguo, por ke singla vorto indikez la genro, la numero e la persono di qui on parolas! To igus nia linguo ye nelernebla! E lo ne penvalorus, nam onu povas vicee "desambiguigar" per durar lektar til la nexta lineo. Pluse, remarkez ke gramatikale la duesma lineo apartenas a la sama frazo kam l'unesma: "Patro nia qua esas en la cielo, tua nomo santigesez." Erste hike finas l'unesma frazo. Pluse, me pensas ke tu demandas ca "desambiguigo" de tua vidpunto kom Hispane- (o Katalane-) -parolanto e konseque, anke -pensanto. Quanta plusa "desambiguigin" povus postular altra linguani de *sia vidpunti diferanta? Me exemplifis per la kazo di nia vicini Portugalane- parolanta/pensanta, di qui la linguo postulas "desambiguigar" "vu" maskula (o senhor) de "vu" femina (a senhora). Altra populi postulas lo sama pri la pronomi "me" o "tu". La Hispana, anke pri "ni" e "vi". Certena regioni di *Brazil e Chili "desambiguigas" tri formi por la duesma persono singulara, segun formaleso, opoze a nia du formi: "tu" e "vu". Ed en regioni di Hispania, esas du formi por la duesma persono plurala "vi": "vosotros/as" ed "ustedes". Lingui Novlatina havas du tempi pasinta simpla: (Hispane: "quisimos" e "quer�amos"). Ula lingui (exemple la Rusa e la Ukrainana) postulas ke sua verbi indikez l'aspekto. E tale ni povus durar dum multa pagini. Imaginez do linguo qua devus "desambiguigar" to omna! > Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia en la cielo:" e "Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas konsiderar, respektante admaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: > Patro nia, qua en la cielo Tu esas: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! ... Me ne konkordas. "Qua" kom pronomo relativa remplasas la subjekto "Patro nia", qua, sualatere, esas remplasebla per la pronomo "tu". Ica propozajo havas do du strukturi aparta ("tu" e "qua") por la sama funciono gramatikal, nome: subjekto. Malgre omno, forsan ya existas tri indikili qui sugestas ke la verbo "ESAS" en "Patro nia" esas ya duesma persono. Me ne esas tre certa pri to, ma forsan altru povas konfirmar to, o korektigar me vicee: * Unesme, la signo "!" fine dil frazo, ultre klamo, quale indikas Michael TALBOT-WILSON, sugestas anke la vokativo, qua esas sempre asociata al duesma persono. * Duesme, l'absenteso di artiklo es anke indikilo di advoko en plura lingui. Komparez la Hispana: "Padre nuestro..." (sen artiklo, duesma persono) ad "... el pan nuestro..." (kun artiklo, triesma persono). * E triesme, la fakto ipsa ke "Patro nia" esas prego, qua pro sua naturo esas espereble en duesma persono. Itere me pregas konfirmo o korektigo, precipue pri mea duesma punto, nam forsan l'uzado dil artiklo en Ido esas diferanta. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1376 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50245 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 20:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2004 20:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13302.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.38) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 20:51:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20041026205105.10182.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.224] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:51:05 CEST Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:51:05 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogrroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.38 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: "Patro Nia": mea konkluzo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Maxim kordial saluto, Eduardo! Me intencabas respondar puntope vua suba e-letro, tamen, kande me ja skribabis plura linei, desfortunoze me perdis mea fugema mesajo. To indikas a me, ke me devas respondar vu, ma per plu simpla vorti: mea unesma intenco. Malgre lo, me deziras gratitudar vu pro vua intereso e vua du splendid e long e-letri (la suba ed olta sendita aden Idoespanyol), ube vu ya spensis tempo, energio, cerebro, edc.). Dankego! Me ne pretenas diskutar pri l' "Patro Nia": me simple avertis pri l'ambiguajo quan me kredis trovir en olua unesma lineo. Mea instinto dic ke ibe ulo falias, e ke lo ya es evitebla ed evitenda. La kuntexto es nura helpilo quan ni mustas observar, nur kande lo es absolute necesa e neevitebla. "Nul ambiguajo justifikas altra ambiguajo". Quale me ja skribis en mea unesma epistolo "Patro Nia"-la, ne nur Ido, ma anke Esperanto e preske omna lingui ne-natural sequas la sama skemo che l'unesma lineo, ma nulakaze la lingui natural, quin ofras nula 'dubto' od ambiguajo ibe. Me vizitabis ret-pagino "christus rex", ube trovesas la "Patro Nia" en multa lingui natural e ne-natural... Inter le ne-natural, se me bone memoras, nur la linguo "Unitario" semblas konciar relate l' posibla ambiguajo, quankam me ne savas kad olua solvuro es la maxim bona. Pardonez, Eduardo, ke me ne respondis puntope vua interesantega mesajo: me KREDAS ke lo ETERNIGUS l'afero pri l' "Patro Nia", e me nulakaze pretenabis lo. Me ya intencis konvinkar nulu pri mea sentaji e konvinkaji. Me nur atencigis pri posibla ed evitebla ambiguajo. Til balde! Standez bone! P A R T A K A --- "Eduardo A. Rodi" skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Forsan me ne bone explikis mea opiniono. Me nule kredas ke existas ambiguajo en "Patro Nia", pro ke me pensas ke ambiguaji es serchenda ne en vorti ma en la tota texto. La tota texto montras klare ke la parolanto adresas Deo, vice parolar PRI Deo ad altri. Forsan l'unesma lineo ne klarigas lo, ma ya la duesma, e la triesma, ed itere pluse plurfoye. Tamen, lektez la lasta paragrafo di ca letro. Restas ya nula dubito ke on parolas AD Deo, vice PRI Deo. [Notez ke *quoniam me ne kredas ke existas ambiguaji en ta kazi, me uzos cito-hoketi por la vorto "ambigua" e derivaji, por indikar ke l'"ambiguaji" esus nur gramatikala, ma nule semantikala.] > Segun me, ambiguajo es ambiguajo irgakaze, ed "ambiguajo evitebla es ambiguajo evitenda". Ka ni darfas aceptar, ke Ido es ambigua ibe ube nia matro-lingui ne es? Me kredas ke, se posibla, on must evitar sempre l'ambiguaji e, cakaze, on evitez oli del komenco!, to es, del unesma lineo... Semblas existar "ambiguajo" en l'unesma lineo, pro ke ibe (e nur ibe) onu ne povas savar ka la verbo "esas" es duesma o triesma persono. Ma to ne importas pro ke la vera skopo di ula linguo esas komunikar MESAJI neambigue, mem se ula parti dil mesajo esas ya "ambigua". E fakte, onu ne povus eliminar sigla "ambiguajo" de Ido; o se onu ya povus, lo igus Ido ye tro desfacile lernebla. Videz kelka exempli: - "Me esas fatigita." Ka parolas viro o muliero? Ni ne savas lo per ca frazo izolita, pro ke l'adjektivo en Ido ne "desambiguigas" la genro. Ta frazo, tamen, ne esus "ambigua" en multa lingui Novlatina qui diferigas la genro che maxim mult adjektivi. - "Me skribis letro." Itere, ka parolas viro o muliero? En la Rusa e l'Ukrainana, anke matro-lingui (di altra Idisti), en la tempo pasinta indikesas sempre la genro (en la singularo) e la numero (ma kurioze ne la persono gramatikala) dil subjekto. Ka nome di tua principo on ne devus anke evitar ta "ambiguajo"? Imaginez quante desfacila devus divenar nia linguo, por ke singla vorto indikez la genro, la numero e la persono di qui on parolas! To igus nia linguo ye nelernebla! E lo ne penvalorus, nam onu povas vicee "desambiguigar" per durar lektar til la nexta lineo. Pluse, remarkez ke gramatikale la duesma lineo apartenas a la sama frazo kam l'unesma: "Patro nia qua esas en la cielo, tua nomo santigesez." Erste hike finas l'unesma frazo. Pluse, me pensas ke tu demandas ca "desambiguigo" de tua vidpunto kom Hispane- (o Katalane-) -parolanto e konseque, anke -pensanto. Quanta plusa "desambiguigin" povus postular altra linguani de *sia vidpunti diferanta? Me exemplifis per la kazo di nia vicini Portugalane- parolanta/pensanta, di qui la linguo postulas "desambiguigar" "vu" maskula (o senhor) de "vu" femina (a senhora). Altra populi postulas lo sama pri la pronomi "me" o "tu". La Hispana, anke pri "ni" e "vi". Certena regioni di *Brazil e Chili "desambiguigas" tri formi por la duesma persono singulara, segun formaleso, opoze a nia du formi: "tu" e "vu". Ed en regioni di Hispania, esas du formi por la duesma persono plurala "vi": "vosotros/as" ed "ustedes". Lingui Novlatina havas du tempi pasinta simpla: (Hispane: "quisimos" e "quer�amos"). Ula lingui (exemple la Rusa e la Ukrainana) postulas ke sua verbi indikez l'aspekto. E tale ni povus durar dum multa pagini. Imaginez do linguo qua devus "desambiguigar" to omna! > Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia en la cielo:" e "Patro nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas konsiderar, respektante admaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: > Patro nia, qua en la cielo Tu esas: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! ... Me ne konkordas. "Qua" kom pronomo relativa remplasas la subjekto "Patro nia", qua, sualatere, esas remplasebla per la pronomo "tu". Ica propozajo havas do du strukturi aparta ("tu" e "qua") por la sama funciono gramatikal, nome: subjekto. Malgre omno, forsan ya existas tri indikili qui sugestas ke la verbo "ESAS" en "Patro nia" esas ya duesma persono. Me ne esas tre certa pri to, ma forsan altru povas konfirmar to, o korektigar me vicee: * Unesme, la signo "!" fine dil frazo, ultre klamo, quale indikas Michael TALBOT-WILSON, sugestas anke la vokativo, qua esas sempre asociata al duesma persono. * Duesme, l'absenteso di artiklo es anke indikilo di advoko en plura lingui. Komparez la Hispana: "Padre nuestro..." (sen artiklo, duesma persono) ad "... el pan nuestro..." (kun artiklo, triesma persono). * E triesme, la fakto ipsa ke "Patro nia" esas prego, qua pro sua naturo esas espereble en duesma persono. Itere me pregas konfirmo o korektigo, precipue pri mea duesma punto, nam forsan l'uzado dil artiklo en Ido esas diferanta. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1377 Return-Path: X-Sender: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79883 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 20:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2004 20:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 20:51:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 81651 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 20:46:18 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 20:46:18 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.32.219]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000282186.msg for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:23 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:35:33 +0100 Message-ID: <20041025213533.799893@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20041025002105.22474.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Delivery-Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:35:33 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:23 +0100 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.32.219 X-Return-Path: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:27 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 X-eGroups-From: RBC From: RBC Subject: Re: [linguo] Ultre l' helpanta varianti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Kara Partaka, Me komprenas. Me pensis pri ta posibleso (ultre l'). Tamen, = me kredas ke ol esas desrekomendinda, e me ne memoras audir o lektir ol ant= ee. Tamen, me ne povas dicar certe ke vu ne darfas skribar ol. Me povas nu= r donar opiniono! Kordiale, Robert. On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 02:21:05 +0200 (= CEST), Partaka wrote: > >=A0Saluto, Robert! Vu skribis: > >=A0En Ido on mus= tas sempre pronuncar la litero "h", do >=A0"l' helpanta" ne esas apta. > >= =A0-Notez ke me skribis "Ultre l' helpanta", e to >=A0ya es diferanta kam "= Ultre l'helpanta". > >=A0KGD, pagino 19: "Ma on atencez ne elizionar la >= =A0artiklo, se ol destruktas la aspiro di la litero h. Do >=A0ne uzez l'hom= o, l'hosti, ma la homo, la hosti." > >=A0Robert. > >=A0-Kande me elizionas = l'artiklo, me nule destruktas >=A0l'aspiro dil litero h. > >=A0-"Ultre l' h= elpanta" sonas quale "ULtrel Helpanta". >=A0Me simple profitas por eliziona= r l'artiklo, ne nur >=A0kand' ol aparas avan vokalo, ma anke dop vokalo. > = >=A0-Maxim kordiale... > > >=A0P A R T A K A > > >=A0Partaka skribis: >>=A0= Ultre l' helpanta varianti "Patro nia en la cielo:" >=A0e "Patro nia, >>=A0= Tu qua esas en la cielo:", on mem darfas konsiderar, >=A0respektante >>=A0a= dmaxime la frazo, la yena varianto: >> > >=A0=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=A0Maxim kord= ial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! >=A0http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/I= doCatalaOccitan/ > > >=A0______________________________________________ >= =A0Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: =A1100 MB GRATIS! >=A0Nuevos servicios, m=E1= s seguridad >=A0http://correo.yahoo.es > > >=A0------------------------ Yah= oo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- >=A0~--> >=A0$9.95 domain names fro= m Yahoo!. Register anything. >=A0http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQ= LSAA/GP4qlB/TM >=A0--------------------------------------------------------= ------------ >=A0~-> > > >=A0Yahoo! Groups Links > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1378 Return-Path: X-Sender: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96946 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 20:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2004 20:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fw.firenet.uk.net) (194.74.223.250) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 20:52:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 81652 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 20:46:18 -0000 Received: from mail.firenet.uk.net (194.74.223.6) by fw.firenet.uk.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 20:46:18 -0000 Received: from SonyFX805 ([62.53.32.219]) by mail.firenet.uk.net (FirenetMailserver1 [194.74.223.6]) (MDaemon.PRO.v7.1.1.R) with ESMTP id md50000282187.msg for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:23 +0100 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - EVALUATION VERSION X-URL: http://www.pocomail.com/ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:00 +0100 Message-ID: <2004102621510.323170@SonyFX805> Delivery-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:00 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:23 +0100 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.53.32.219 X-Return-Path: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com X-MDAV-Processed: FirenetMailserver1, Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:51:27 +0100 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.74.223.250 X-eGroups-From: RBC From: RBC Subject: Stranja mesaji X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Pro quo, plurfoye recente kande me sendis mesajo a Linguolisto, me recevas = mesajo (qua citas mea) de mail@e.pagenet.ca, dicante en Angla linguo ke, "A= bonanto catesrt ne esas valida abonanto. Kontrolez la numero e ri-probez"? = Me savas nulo pri "catesrt" o la adreso de qua venas la mesajo neexpektita= . Qua povas solvar la afero? Danko. Robert. ______ > Subscriber =A0cate= srt is not a =A0 > valid subscriber. =A0Check the number and try again. > = Your Message/Votre Message: From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1379 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15034 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2004 22:00:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2004 22:00:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep17-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.15) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 22:00:15 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20041026220013.QRS25530.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:00:13 +0200 Message-ID: <023201c4bba7$085b7300$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: References: Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:59:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.15 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [idosocietohispana] RE: *Komputorala vortaro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Antonio e Jos� Miguel, Me havas simila listo. Forsan ni sendez nia listi de komputorala vorti a Linguolisto por komparo, ka yes? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Saluti. Me heme skribis en vortareto ula komputorala vorti quin me uzas en Novajeti e mea artikli. La listo ne esas tro longa, ma kontenas ja ula vorti klasifikita per temi. Me sendos hike balde. Amikale. --- En idosocietohispana@yahoogroups.com, "lamashino" escribi�: > > Hola, > Estoy construyendo un diccionario de t�rminos inform�ticos > en Ido. Por ahora llevo unas pocas palabras de las que propuso > Richard Stevenson en idolisto, aunque no s� si han llegado a > admitirse palabras como "baito", "komputorala", "komputoro", > "procesoro", etc. No obstante, las estoy poniendo en el diccionario. > Si luego cambian, tan s�lo es cuesti�n de modificarlo. > Si alguien tiene alg�n listado con t�rminos inform�ticos, que > me lo pase y as� lo voy escribiendo. S� que en Adavane 5 (creo), hay > un peque�o listado, as� que lo usar�. > El objetivo es que, por lo menos, haya palabras para que alguien > se anime a traducir programas de software libre a Ido. > Multa saluti! > > Jos� Miguel. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1380 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17684 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2004 05:02:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2004 05:02:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 05:02:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2004 05:00:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.178] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2004 05:00:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:00:58 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041026203518.8686.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1072 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Re: "Patro Nia" e "Stranja mesaji" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Partaka, vu skribis: > Malgre lo, me deziras gratitudar vu pro vua intereso > e vua du splendid e long e-letri (la suba ed olta > sendita > aden Idoespanyol), ube vu ya spensis tempo, energio, > cerebro, edc.). Dankego! > Pardonez, Eduardo, ke me ne respondis puntope > vua interesantega mesajo: me KREDAS ke lo > ETERNIGUS l'afero pri l' "Patro Nia", e me nulakaze > pretenabis lo. Esas ya nulo dankinda. Me spensas precipue plezuro en taspeca letri. Pluse, me konkordas kun vu, ke oportas ne eternigar la diskuto, e do me komprenas ke vu ne respondis a mea letri. E Robert skribis: > Pro quo, plurfoye recente kande me sendis mesajo a Linguolisto, me recevas mesajo (qua citas mea) de mail@e..., dicante en Angla linguo ke, "Abonanto catesrt ne esas valida abonanto. Kontrolez la numero e ri-probez"? > Me savas nulo pri "catesrt" o la adreso de qua venas la mesajo neexpektita. Qua povas solvar la afero? Anke me savas nulo, ma anke a me lo eventas, e sempre kande me sendas mesajo ad Linguolisto, ne al altra forumi. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1381 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14797 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2004 06:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2004 06:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 06:56:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2004 06:56:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.142] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2004 06:56:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:56:02 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2437 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: Qua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Eduardo ed Altri Por la diskuto pri la vorto "qua" me volas konocigar= ico: Me trovis, ke en mea matrala linguo omnakaze povas uzar diferanta vo= rto por Idala "qua". Do Fina linguo esas vivanta exemplo, ke on povas dife= rar ca senci anke per uzar diferanta vorti. (1) Questionala pronomo Qua h= omo? KUKA ihminen? Qua venis? KUKA tuli? (2) Questional adjektivo (2.1) Ho= mala substantivi: Qua puero? KUKA lapsi? (2.2) Kozala substantivi: Qua tabl= o? MIK=C4 p=F6yt=E4? (3) Relativa pronomo (3.1) Homala substantivi: la pue= ro qua... lapsi, JOKA... (3.2) Kozala substantivi: la tablo qua... p=F6yt= =E4, JOKA... (anke posibla: p=F6yt=E4, MIK=C4...) Hike esas normala pauzi= inter vorti: A: Dear mother, who visited me. Ido: Kara matro, qua vizitis = me. Fina: Rakas =E4iti, JOKA vieraili minun luonani. Anke ni facas plu lon= ga pauzo hike: A: Dear mother, ... who visited me? Ido: Kara matro, ... qua= vizitis me? Fina: Rakas =E4iti, ... KUKA vieraili minun luonani? Pro ke e= n Fina linguo esas diferanta vorto por questiono e relativo, ni NE (!) hav= as questional intono. Diferanta vorto suficas por Fina linguo. Amikale Art= o Moisio . . . > > Permisez a me propozar exerceto. Me pensis pri du fraz= i en l'Angla > qui exemplifas la sama problemo. Pardonez la stulteso di me= a frazi, > ma me volis frazi same ambigua kam olti di "Patro Nia". Yen oli= : > > 1) "Dear mother, who visited me." (Kara matro, qua vizitis me.) > >= 2) "Dear mother, who visited me?" (Kara matro, qua vizitis me?) > > Nedic= inde, skribe la frazi esas diferanta, nam (2) finas per la > signo "?". Ta= men, vu bone dicas ke vua timo esas ke amba frazi esos > ambigua parole. >= > Voluntez lektar laute amba frazi. Se me esas justa, vu facos pauzo > p= lu longa por la komo di (2) kam por la komo di (1). Pluse, vu > pronuncos = plu emfazoze la "who" di (2) kam olta di (1). E vua intono > tendencos fal= ar pos "mother" en (2), ma ne en (1). . . . > Omnakaze, me pensas ke la amb= iguajo quan vu indikas konsequas del > fakto ke la vorto QUA utilesas per = adminime tri signifiki diferanta: > > 1) kom pronomo questional, ol signif= ikas "Qua homo?": "Qua venis?" > > 2) kom adjektivo questional, ol adjunte= sas ne nur a substantivi > homala, ma anke a substantivi kozala: Qua puero= ? Qua tablo? > > 3) kom pronomo relativa, ol anke remplasas sive homo, siv= e homo: "la > puero qua...", "la tablo qua..." > > Ka to ne esas kontre l= a regulo di unasenceso? > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1382 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83991 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2004 10:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2004 10:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chameleon.view.net.au) (203.87.111.154) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2004 10:44:22 -0000 Received: from chameleon.view.net.au (IDENT:1000@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9RAf2ZY017230 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:11:03 +0930 Received: from localhost (mtw@localhost) by chameleon.view.net.au (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id i9RAf2af017227 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:11:02 +0930 X-Authentication-Warning: chameleon.view.net.au: mtw owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:11:02 +0930 (CST) To: Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <2004102621510.323170@SonyFX805> Message-ID: References: <2004102621510.323170@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 203.87.111.154 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Stranja mesaji X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 2004-10-26 21:51 +0100, RBC skribis: > > Pro quo, plurfoye recente kande me sendis mesajo a Linguolisto, me recevas mesajo (qua citas mea) de mail@e.pagenet.ca, dicante en Angla linguo ke, "Abonanto catesrt ne esas valida abonanto. Kontrolez la numero e ri-probez"? > > Me savas nulo pri "catesrt" o la adreso de qua venas la mesajo neexpektita. Qua povas solvar la afero? Me anke recevas ta mesajo. -- Mike TALBOT-WILSON From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1383 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42667 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2004 05:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Oct 2004 05:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Oct 2004 05:10:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 05:09:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.118] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Oct 2004 05:09:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:09:34 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2372 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Qua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Arto, Me dankas vua informo. Do la generalaji intonala (pri la pauzo= ) aplikesas anke a linguo tre diferanta de ti quin me mencionis, ka? Nur = du remarki: 1) Videz ke en: > Qua homo? KUKA ihminen? QUA esas adjektivo,= ne pronomo, quale anke en: > (2.1) Homala substantivi: Qua puero? KUKA la= psi? > (2.2) Kozala substantivi: Qua tablo? MIK=C4 p=F6yt=E4? Me uzis l'ad= jektivo QUA nur por definar la pronomo QUA, kom "Qua homo", ma *quoniam ol= akompanas substantivo, ol esas adjektivo. 2) Anke en mult altra lingui E= uropana on ne intonas diferante la questioni partala (1) kam l'aserturi. A= nke en ta lingui, l'existo di vorto questionala suficas por sugestar quest= iono. E me konjektas ke lo sama esas aplikebla en Ido. (1) Per "questiono= partala" me intencas aludar: H: preguntas parciales; A: WH-Questions, to = esas ti qui kontenas vorto questionala, kontre "questioni totala" (H: preg= untas totales; A: Yes/No-Questions, to esas, ti qui esas respondizebla per= "Yes" o per "No".). Ma forsan li ja esas nomizita altramaniere en Ido. Se= yes, me pregas ke ulu voluntez informar me tarelate. Predankas amikale, = Eduardo A. RODI. Arto Moisio skribis: > > Kar Eduardo ed Altri > > Por = la diskuto pri la vorto "qua" me volas konocigar ico: Me trovis, ke en mea= > matrala linguo omnakaze povas uzar diferanta vorto por Idala "qua". Do= Fina > linguo esas vivanta exemplo, ke on povas diferar ca senci anke per= uzar > diferanta vorti. > > (1) Questionala pronomo > Qua homo? KUKA ih= minen? > Qua venis? KUKA tuli? > > (2) Questional adjektivo > (2.1) Homala= substantivi: Qua puero? KUKA lapsi? > (2.2) Kozala substantivi: Qua tablo?= MIK=C4 p=F6yt=E4? > > (3) Relativa pronomo > (3.1) Homala substantivi: la= puero qua... lapsi, JOKA... > (3.2) Kozala substantivi: la tablo qua... p= =F6yt=E4, JOKA... (anke posibla: p=F6yt=E4, > MIK=C4...) > > Hike esas n= ormala pauzi inter vorti: > A: Dear mother, who visited me. > Ido: Kara mat= ro, qua vizitis me. > Fina: Rakas =E4iti, JOKA vieraili minun luonani. > >= Anke ni facas plu longa pauzo hike: > A: Dear mother, ... who visited me? = > Ido: Kara matro, ... qua vizitis me? > Fina: Rakas =E4iti, ... KUKA viera= ili minun luonani? > > Pro ke en Fina linguo esas diferanta vorto por ques= tiono e relativo, ni NE (!) > havas questional intono. Diferanta vorto su= ficas por Fina linguo. > > Amikale Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1384 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21456 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2004 16:29:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Oct 2004 16:29:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 2004 16:29:57 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id E45DF5624A; Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:29:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c4be9d$b2540450$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:29:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 262 (mayo - agosto 1981) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Hodie me enretigis: Progreso 262 - (mayo - agosto 1981) - 433 kB Kontenajo: - Elekti dil fucioneri - Programo Ido-konfero 1981 en Jongny - Suisia - La Revoluciono Einstein-ala - Ka linei elektrala tre granda-tensa povas efektigar morbi? - Napoleon nultempe existis - Agadi e paroladi da Nasreddin - Nomi geografala dil USSR e dil 15 republiki Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went... on vacation. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.783 / Virus Database: 529 - Release Date: 25-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1385 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9649 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2004 18:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Oct 2004 18:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Oct 2004 18:19:28 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 7ECEA193C2; Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:19:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000a01c4bf76$29260460$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:19:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 295 (mayo - agosto 1992) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 295 - (mayo - agosto 1981) - 483 kB Kontenajo: - Germana Ido-renkontro - Frank Kasper - Problemi pri reklamado - David Weston - Nova libri - Kevin Ford (Traduko ek 'Time' revuo) - Desavantaji dil sistemo decimala - Robert Carnaghan - Seminario en Rotterdam pri Interlinguistiko - Don Gasper (Traduko - originala autoro: Willem Verloren van Themaat) - Pri valoroza verko - Andreas Juste - La nomi di nia vilaji - Marion Kasper (Traduko - originala autoro: Hans Klecker) Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went... on vacation. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 29-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1386 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74901 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2004 18:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2004 18:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2004 18:23:16 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id D5E2519A3D; Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:23:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002201c4c03f$da5ae880$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:22:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 300 (januaro - aprilo 1994) - La famoza numero jubileala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: La famoza numero jubileala: Progreso 300 - (januaro - aprilo 1994) - 1.540 kB Kontenajo: - Etapo - Andreas Juste - En simil okazioni - Andreas Juste - La Titulo - Andreas Juste - Okadek numeri - Andreas Juste - Rinasko - Andreas Juste - Nova fervori - Andreas Juste - Prekursori - Andreas Juste - Idista Poeti - Andreas Juste - Andreas Juste - Tazio Carlevaro - Idista Voyajeri - Andreas Juste - La voyo di Couturat - Andreas Juste Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us would do. He went... on vacation. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 29-10-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1387 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54530 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2004 17:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2004 17:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2004 17:26:25 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id CE2FA15A; Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:26:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002d01c4c101$13d17a40$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:26:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 274 (mayo - agosto 1985) - Tote dedikata a la korespondado inter Louis Couturat e Bertrand Russel X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: La tote dedikata numero a la korespondado= inter Louis Couturat e Bertrand Russel: Progreso 274 - (mayo - agosto 1985= ) - 990 kB Kontenajo: - La nepublikigata epistolaro inter Bertrand Russel = e Louis Couturat - Tazio Carlevaro (Traduko - originala autoro: Anne-Fran= =E7oise Schmid) Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala = revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso= /progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemske= rk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido= -Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio fo= rumo Fahrenheit 9/11: With everything going wrong, he did what any of us= would do. He went... on vacation. --- Outgoing mail is certified Viru= s Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version:= 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 1-11-2004 [Non-text portion= s of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1388 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60498 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2004 17:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2004 17:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp05.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.145) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2004 17:37:24 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id D59BAA1F2; Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:35:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c4c1cb$8ea730a0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:35:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.145 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 245 - (januaro - marto 1976) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 245 - (januaro - marto 1976) - 8= 29 kB Kontenajo: - L' Ido-renkontro internaciona en Saint-Nazaire - Roger = Moureaux (Traduko ek la jurnali Presse-Oc=E9an e L' Eclar) - Aspekto dil p= enso Japona - Roger Moureaux (Traduko - originala autoro: Masahiro Kawada) = - Fakti pri la fumado - Alfred Neussner (Traduko ek folio dil AARG) Ol= esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lekt= ebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bo= na lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando ht= tp://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://g= roups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoin= g mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://ww= w.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 1-11= -2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1389 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42912 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2004 19:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Nov 2004 19:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2004 19:07:16 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E3F519BA8; Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:07:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003401c4c2a1$7e9d0780$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 20:07:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 285 - (januaro - aprilo 1989) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 285 - (januaro - aprilo 1989) - = 688 kB Kontenajo: - La olimpiadi en nia tempo - Hellmut R=F6hnisch = - Saja paroli - Varmega drinkaji - Tom Lang (Traduko - origi= nala autoro: William Lecky) - Historio di prenomo - Jacques Bol (Traduko - = originala autoro: Valmy F=E9aux) - Klara konsilo - Andreas Juste - Quale= ganar nova e yuna adheranti al Ido-movado? - Hellmut R=F6hnisch - = Idala foliumi Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso,= la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/= Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenh= oorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia= .org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-= Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by = AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Da= tabase: 533 - Release Date: 1-11-2004 [Non-text portions of this message h= ave been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1390 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3392 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2004 18:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Nov 2004 18:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2004 18:20:45 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D13658512; Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:20:36 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <008501c4c364$2654e3e0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:20:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 294 - (januaro - aprilo 1992) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 294 - (januaro - aprilo 1992) ) = - 752 kB Kontenajo: -Bona e prosperoza yaro 1992 - I= do-Kloshi - Miroslav Hysko - Ka la pigi kantas? - Miroslav Hysk= o - Ad Andreas Juste - Kevin Ford - Pro l'artiklo 'Germani= a unionita' - Heidi Neussner - Yunlinguo: observuro kurta di priv= ata parolado - Michael Ramsay (Traduko) - Ka la homaro ankore havas futuro= ? - Heidi Neussner (Traduko - originala autoro: Michael W=FCnstel) - Pri s= hakludo - Andreas Juste - L' idealo di Couturat - Andreas Juste - Ite= re ridez ni bonkordiale pri linguala uzado - Edward Steve - Destruktend= a Babel - Jacques Bol Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la = oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/= progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn= Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org= / - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wiki= pedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG = anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Databa= se: 533 - Release Date: 1-11-2004 [Non-text portions of this message have = been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1391 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83923 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2004 17:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2004 17:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2004 17:01:36 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 4878D5E248; Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:01:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c4c422$471cabd0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:01:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 267 - (januaro - aprilo 1983) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 267 - (januaro - aprilo 1983) ) - 1.007 kB Kontenajo: - Anonco Ido-Konfero en York, Anglia - Raporto dal sekretario administranta dil ULI Tom Lang - La konfereyo 1983 - Louis Pascau - Roger Moureaux - Nia amiko Louis Pascau - Roger Moureaux (Traduko) - Trauri (Frieda Linde e patro di Robin Self) - Profesoro Louis Rougier - Omno en un vorto - Quala esas via opiniono? - Mirdza Klava - Testamento - Boris Glozman (Traduko) Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 1-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1392 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6889 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2004 16:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2004 16:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2004 16:16:25 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id AA7CF2CE; Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:16:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000e01c4c4e5$20f1f820$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:16:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 284 - (septembro - decembro 1988) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 284 - (septembro - decembro 1988= ) - 720 kB Kontenajo: - Interna Buletino di ULI - David Weston = - Seglo-navigado - Axel Rylander - Stranja pagini en historio= - Andreas Juste - Yen la questiono: Kreskar o konjelar - Tom Lang = - La mutono en la religio - Camiel de Coock (Traduko) - Reakti - Arbori= - Heidi Neussner - Trauro (Margaretha R=F6hnisch) - Jacques Bol = Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo di= l ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progres= o.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Ned= erlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikiped= io http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo = --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system= (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release= Date: 1-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1393 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49147 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2004 17:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2004 17:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2004 17:08:16 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id AFA4258AB1; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:08:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c4c5b5$86176890$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:08:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 270 - (januaro - aprilo 1984) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 270 (januaro - aprilo 1984) - 7= 22kB - Ido: Linguo por filozofi - Dubl=E9, Leon - Ri-inkarnaco - M= eylan, P - Del verkaro da Lui Pasko - Pasko, Lui - La stranja kazo d= i Otto Jespersen - Juste, Andreas - Kande Vikingi ludis - G.S.R. - La= bulo de sapono - Traduko - Duesma linguo universala - Jacob, Henry = - La prefero da Lessing - Traduko - La mesolino dil Treviri = - Marvelo Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la ofic= ala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/prog= reso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Hee= mskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ -= Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedi= o forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti= -virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: = 533 - Release Date: 1-11-2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been= removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1394 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29174 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2004 17:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2004 17:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2004 17:17:00 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id ED53D42D; Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:16:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c4c67f$e3568160$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 18:16:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 281 - (septembro - decembro 1987) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 281 - (septembro - decembro 1987) - 711kB Kontenajo: - Letri a la sekretario - Weston, David - Libera tribuno, Komuna verko - Juste, Andreas - La danjeri dil nutrivi iradiita - Moureaux, Roger - La desavantaji di la Chiniana politiko pri nasko-quanto - Neussner, Heidi (Traduko) - Kulturo populara, Proverbi II - Juste, Andreas - La voco - Elze, Erich (Traduko) - La latina linguo en skoli - Weston, David Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progresoiki,.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 1-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1395 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6353 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2004 17:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Nov 2004 17:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2004 17:41:32 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 570A25E771; Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:41:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001d01c4c74c$75d064d0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:41:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 318 - (januaro - aprilo 2000) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 318 - (januaro - aprilo 2000) -= 1.050 kB Kontenajo: - Turismo - Neussner, Heidi - Vivo por paco e yust= eso (Bertha von Suttner) - Neussner, Heidi (Traduko) - La insekti - Ste= venson, Richard - Nova poemeti - Neussner, Heidi - Skribaji= da Prof. Ostwald - Stevenson, Richard - Moderna Fablisti - Ju= ste, Andreas - Trilussa - Trilussa - Nova planeti, nova v= orti - Rodrigues Hernandez, Jose Maria - Ni savas - Neves, Gon=E7alo= - Komenti pri artiklo en Progreso 317 - Stevenson, Richard = - Kelka reflekti pos vizito en Chinia - Neussner, Heidi - Suceso = dependas de stabileso - Lang, Tom Ol esas, kun altra ancien= a numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http:= //www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti ami= kala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl= http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/i= do-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Vi= rus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Versio= n: 6.0.792 / Virus Database: 536 - Release Date: 9-11-2004 [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1396 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30352 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2004 09:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2004 09:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2004 09:47:03 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep20-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20041111094700.GIYM29770.amsfep20-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:47:00 +0100 Message-ID: <005f01c4c7d3$3be02a30$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:45:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fw:_=5Bidoespa=F1ol=5D_Helpo_por_tradukar?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info (transsendita da HS) Kara Adri�n, kara samideani La Ido-vorti propozita da Antonio (singlu povas konstatar lua savo komputeral ed Idal) semblas a me apta ed uzebla. Pluse me audacas propozar vorti por le ne tradukita ed altra posibla tradukuri por ula vorti. Yen la kompleta vortaro sendita da Adri�n: - Descargar - Deskargar - Servidor - Servisto (forsan "Ret-servisto" esus plu apta kam "Servisto") - Dato - Datumo - Por defecto - Su-asumita (adj.) Su-asumito (subs.) - Grabar - Registragar - Dominio - Domeno - Personalizar - Proprigar - P�gina web - Ret-pagino o Ret-situo - Webmaster - Ret-paginestro o Ret-situestro - Portal - Chefa o precipua retpagino / retsituo - Cookie - Trac-arkivo (plu apta kam "Spion-arkivo") - Apodo - Uzantonomo o Surnomo - Frame - Framo Amikala salutin sendas Fernando Tej�n -----Mensaje original----- De: Adri�n Pastrana [mailto:conocimientopleno@hotmail.com] Enviado el: mi�rcoles, 10 de noviembre de 2004 15:13 Para: idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [idoespa�ol] Helpo por tradukar Kara amiki: Me demandas via helpo por tradukar la sequanta vorti ad Ido: - descargar (Angla:download) - servidor - dato(datumo?) - por defecto - grabar - dominio (domeno?) - personalizar - webmaster - cookie - apodo (surnomacho?) - portal - frame Saluti amikala! Adri�n Pastrana ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Fernando Tej�n" Aan: Verzonden: donderdag 11 november 2004 0:46 Onderwerp: RE: [idoespa�ol] Helpo por tradukar From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1397 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83864 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2004 17:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Nov 2004 17:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2004 17:53:19 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id C444C56DDD; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:53:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c4c817$54649f20$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:53:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 265 - (mayo - agosto 1982) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 265 - (mayo - agosto 1982) - 754kB Kontenajo: - La interrelati di logiko e di linguistiko en la problemo di la linguo internaciona (duro) - Couturat, Louis - Exemplo pri la deplorinda ambigueso dil vorti latina - Ido-renkontro dil vicini en Wavre e Marcinelle, Belgia 10-12 aprilo 1982 - Lang, Tom - Georges Moureaux - Meylan, P - Ideali - Tesseyre, J.L. (Traduko) - Por socio nova - Moureaux, Roger (Traduko) - Delfini - Moureaux, Georges (Traduko) - Ta sexuo febla! - Pasko, Lui - Emma Louise Bosshard - Kurt anunci dal sekretario administranta dil U.L.I. - Lang, Tom - Almono da poeto - Pasko, Lui - Mil kansoni - Neussner, Adelheid Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.792 / Virus Database: 536 - Release Date: 9-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1398 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48247 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2004 17:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Nov 2004 17:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2004 17:39:09 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 9671D19103; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:38:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c4c8de$7d7ac7f0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:38:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 275 - (septembro - decembro 1985) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 275 - (septembro - decembro 1985) - 1.562 kB Kontenajo: - La Internaciona Ido-konfero en Antwerpen 1985 - Weston, David - La sercho por la linguo internaciona - Lang, Tom (Traduko) - Nacionalismo e lingui - Jacob, Henry - La Etruriani e lia linguo - Weston, David - Victor Hugo, genioza homo - Gontier, A. - Ri-inkarnaco - Meylan, P Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 10-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1399 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62954 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2004 19:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2004 19:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2004 19:08:23 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id B04FF17C1A; Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:08:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001701c4cb46$774f2000$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 20:08:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 286 - (mayo - agosto 1989) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 286 - (mayo - agosto 1989) - 1.= 705 kB Kontenajo: - La siejo di Leyden - Rylander, Axel (Traduko) - Kand= e floro valoris oro - Juste, Andreas - Publika deklaro da L.Leau - La= ng, Tom (Traduko) - Pri propagando di nia linguo - R=F6hnisch, Hellmut = - Fervoyi e dialekti - Juste, Andreas Ol esas, kun = altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijita= le ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado= ! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.b= ijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yaho= o.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is = certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.= com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13-11-2004 [N= on-text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1400 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10159 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2004 17:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2004 17:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2004 17:01:02 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 654E615A52; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:01:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c4cbfd$da346dd0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:01:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 269 - (septembro - decembro 1983) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 269 - (septembro - decembro 1983) - 1.547 kB Kontenajo: - Letro a nia lektanti de la Sekretario Administranta - Lang, Tom - La internaciona Ido-konfero en York - 20 julio til 4 agosto 1983 - Weston, David - Amoro vice milito - Pasko, Lui - Idolinguo e linguistiko - Juste, Andreas - En l'Ido-literaturo - La ronda stono - Bouts, Michel - Serchante radiki Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1401 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22695 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2004 21:17:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Nov 2004 21:17:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13308.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.44) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Nov 2004 21:17:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 27340 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Nov 2004 21:17:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20041116211753.27338.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.58.35.107] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:17:53 CET Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:17:53 +0100 (CET) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.44 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] RE: 18: quale vu nomesas ed skribesas? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Eduardo! La problemo ne es la manko di la streketo, ma la nombro-kompresigo. Me kredas ke l' KGD ne donas direte la libereso por skribar la nombri tale: dekedu, dekekin, dekeok. Tamen, nedirete, semblas permisar lo, nam ibe, por mea surprizo, aparas ya tala nombri. Ma notez, ke preske nulu ek ni skribas la nombri tale, ma separit od streketizita. Pro quo? Pro ke, segun me kredas, nul ek nia Ido-kursi docas a ni tala nombri, tale skribita, ma nur quale ni omna ja konocas oli: dek e ok o dek-e-ok, edc. Esus interesiva konstatar ka Couturat o de Beaufront skribabis tala "straja nombri" altraloke. Kaze ke ili uzabus oli, ni ya saveskus ke ili konsentas pri oli. Ne obliviez l'afero pri l'acentizo: la Kataluna uzas "divuit" (dek-e-ok), pro ke ta numero prizentas nula problemo acentizal, tamen onu skribas "vint-i-vuit" (duadek-e-ok), nam "vintivuit" divenus "vinTIvuit". Segun la supozata libereso quan vu indikas, on anke darfus uzar la nombri tale: deke ok o deke-ok. Kad ulu deziras 'opinar' pri ca grava temo? Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A --- "Eduardo A. Rodi" skribis: > > > Kara Partaka, > > > La KGD, unesme, lernigas da ni la justa uzado dil > nombri, ma pose, > > kelka linei ad-sube, olu montras "dekekin" > (dufoye), "deketri" e > > "dekedu" (dufoye). Voluntez lektar atencoze del > 118. til 122. > > Ka to justifikas nia nuna uzado di tala nombri? Me > ne savas lo. > > Yen la problemo relate l' 18 e sua maxim proxima > familiani. > > Ka la problemo esas la manko di streketo? Tamen, > remarkez ke la KGD > *jame postulas olua uzado, ma nur konsilas ol, "por > montrar plu klare > l'uniono dil nombri adicionata." (Noto (5) pri > "Nombri") La sola kozo > quan la KGD emfazoze rekomendas esas uzar sempre "e" > e *jame "ed", > pro uniformeso, ma ol donas omna libereso por > selektar ka l'elementi > dil vorti esos unionata per streketo, separata en > aparta vorti o mem > unionata sen streketo en un vorto. > > Pluse, me supozas ke la streketo esus preferinda nur > en nombri plu > granda kam le uzata en ta artikli dil KGD. Exemple, > esus desfacile > komprenebla vortego quala > "duamilesepacentesisadekeok" (vice "duamil > e sepacent e sisadek e ok" o > "duamil-e-sepacent-e-sisadek-e-ok"), > kontre ke kompozaji duchifra esas facile e rapide > komprenebla, quale > sugestas mem la lingui naturala: dieciocho, > eighteen, dezoito > skribesas omni per un vorto. Ka mem en la Kataluna > on ne > dicas "divuit"? (Danko, Adri�n pro la *situo > Softcatal�). > > Vi omna standez bone. > > Eduardo A. RODI ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �100 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1402 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55627 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2004 17:38:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Nov 2004 17:38:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Nov 2004 17:38:00 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 25A5F5B3A6; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:37:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003001c4cd95$59c4fe00$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:38:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 302 - (septembro - decembro 1994) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 302 - (septembro - decembro 1994) - 1.432 kB Kontenajo: - La extrema trista viro - Ford, Kevin (Traduko) - La problemo di final vokali - Wood, Tom - La rolo di final vokali - Juste, Andreas - Kande me timas - Lang, Tom (Traduko) - Dro Zamenhof: la unesma idisto? - Lang, Tom - Estetiko idala - plezurego anmala - Porzenheim, Friedrich - Driftanta derivi - Juste, Andreas - Danjeroza metalo Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1403 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53721 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2004 17:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Nov 2004 17:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2004 17:55:18 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 42D9C19CDC; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:55:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c4ce60$eef40bd0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:55:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 272 - (septembro - decembro 1984) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 272 - (septembro - decembro 1984) - 1.549 kB Kontenajo: - En nia venonta numeri - Regnier, Franz - Serioze pri lo komika - Vakanci sunoza - Jacob, Henry - Vortaro Japona-Ido - Moureaux, Roger - Kelka proverbi - La kansono di Rejino Blanka - Rylander, Axel - En l'ero dil tradukmashini - Juste, Andreas - Bona brokanto - Sur marjini di literaturo - Por respondar a lekteri - Optimismo e bonvolo - Neuens, L Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1404 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59007 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2004 17:11:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2004 17:11:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp05.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.145) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2004 17:11:13 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 22BAEA7FF; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:11:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c4d17f$6f588320$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:11:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.145 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Re: Adresi di reprezenteri en: "Re: [ido] Bona novajo!, altra grava ret-pagino" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Me kompozis listo di reprezenteri dil ULI ye: http://www.bijt= enhoorn.nl/Ido/uli/reprezenteri.html Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn H= eemskerk - Nederlando ----- Original Message ----- From: H. Stuifbergen = To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com ; idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com ; idolerneyo@ya= hoogroups.com ; IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com ; germanlinguaidist@yahoog= roups.de ; ido-linguo@yahoogroups.com ; Ido-Rusa@yahoogroups.com ; francido= l@yahoogroups.com ; ido-angla@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 23, = 2004 11:37 AM Subject: adresi di reprezenteri en: "Re: [ido] Bona novajo!, = altra grava ret-pagino" Kara Adri=E1n, Me, kun granda gratitudozeso, dan= kas vu pro vua ecelanta laboro tradukigir texto pri Ido aden la Greka. Fine= anke en la Greka! Nur, to quon me konstatas en multa interretala pagini d= i Ido, on sempre uzas tre ancien e ne plu korekta o mem nekompleta listo de= reprezenteri. Me propozas ke Ronald Bijtenhoorn, la sekretario di ULI, ko= mpozez listo interretala, mantenata NUR da il, de nomi ed adresi di oficala= ULI-reprezenteri. Lore omna informo-pagini e folii povas ligar a ta interr= etala listo o kopiar de ta listo (quankam me preferas ligar a la listo por = esar maxim aktuala, sempre). Yen la problemo dil anciena listo: ---------= -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------= ---- Aljeria > SOFIANE MORCHEDI Andorra: Robert Castello, All. Sante Colon= a 50, 7, 4, Andorra- la-Vella. > MORTIS Arjentinia > EDUARDO A. RODI Austra= lia: Donald Humphries, Box 121-L, GPO, Melbourne, Victoria 3001.> CHANJESIS= Belgia: Jacques Bol, 80 chaussee des Gaulois, 1300 Wavre. Benin: Jean Codj= o, 03 BP 3589, Cotonou, Benin. > DEMISIONIS Brazilia: > GERALDO BOZ JUNIOR = Britania: David Weston: 24 Nunn Street, Leek, Staffs. ST13 8EA, England. Ca= nada: Kevin Ford, 311-20 Graydon Hall Drive, Toronto, Ontario, M3A 2Z9, Can= ada.> DEMISIONIS Chili: GONZALO LONCONAO-BARAHONA Chinia: Gao Zhen-Xing / J= iashanlu 50 hao, 4 hao lou, Yidanyuan 2 hao, Quingdao Shandong, Republiko P= opulala di Chinia.> TRANSLOJIS Francia: Jean Martignon, 12 rue Maurice Utri= llo, 91600 Savigny-sur-Orge. > DEMISIONIS Gambia:> SEEDY L. JARJUE Germania= : Alfred Neussner, Th?ringer Str. 3, 37284 Waldkappel. Iran: ALI KOMAJI Kan= ada: > CHRISTOPHE GAUBERT Kirgizia: Borivoy Marechek, per Jukovskogo 20, Bi= shbek 45, Kirgizia 720045. > MORTIS Nederlando: Hans Stuifbergen, Ceramplei= n 76 hs, 1095 BZ Amsterdam. Norvegia: > KAI SALVESEN Hispania: Fernando Tej= ?n, C/ Los Claveles, n?6 B. E-24400 Ponferrada. > =3D ADRIAN PASTRANA Polon= ia: Jerzy Gralak, al. Waszyngtona 37/76, PL-04.015 Warszawa, Polonia. Portu= gal: > GON=E7ALO NEVES Rusia: > SERGEY KALEGIN Sri Lanka (Ceylon): R.C. Per= ies, 4 Sri Vijaya Road, Colombo 6. Suedia: > KERSTIN AKERLUND Suissia: Cl. = Kreis-Schneeberger, 57 avenue de Champel, 1206 Geneve.> MORTIS USA: Edward = H. Steve, 820 Glendalough Road, Erdenheim, Pennsylvania 19038. USA: Richard= Earnhart, 405 Fry, Denton, TX 76201. >? ---------------------------------= -------------------------------------------- ----------- Kordiala saluti, = Hans St. -- ODIO NE ES SOLVILO - TRADUKEZ, un pagino po dio es un libro po= yaro. - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado MONDALISTI= ALTRAMANIERE: http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere Ido, linguo = neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! http://www.ido.li Part= oprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e 27es= ma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). Invito ed anunc-formularo v= u trovas ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 = Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT = -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --------- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from t= his group, send an email to: idolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com = c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. = --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus sys= tem (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Rele= ase Date: 19-11-2004 = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1405 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12502 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2004 17:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Nov 2004 17:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp05.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.145) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2004 17:37:11 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 582B4A645; Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:37:10 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002a01c4d183$102c0da0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:37:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.145 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 321 - (januaro - aprilo 2001) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 321 - (januaro - aprilo 2001) - = 1.791 kB Kontenajo: - Prizento dil nova redakteri - Stuifbergen, Hans/Phi= lpot, Brad - Quaracent yari relato inter Nederlando e Japonia - St= uifbergen, Hans (Traduko) - Petra Bonzi en Kamakura - Wasilewski, Igor = - Projeto por chanji donas espero - Stevenson, Richard - Angla e dislexi= o - Nardini, Carlo - Otpor! - Stuifbergen, Hans (Traduko) - Nekrologi= o Tom Lang; Eminenta idisto - Anton, G=FCnther - Vizioni - Neves, Gon=E7al= o Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo di= l ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progres= o.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Ned= erlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikiped= io http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo = --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system= (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.799 / Virus Database: 543 - Release= Date: 19-11-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1406 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99451 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 06:38:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2004 06:38:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2004 06:38:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2004 06:38:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.124] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2004 06:38:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 06:38:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 699 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, De kelka tempo me recevas suplemento dil jurnalo Arjentin= a "Clar=EDn", qua prizentas dezegnuri di diversa elementi e lia nomo en si= s lingui: Hispana, Angla, Portugalana, Itala, Franca e Germana. *Quoniam t= a lingui esas preske le sama kam la lingui DEFIRS, me pensas ke forsan ta= suplemento povus utilesar por la formacado di nova vortaro mankanta, e do= me pensabas pri taipar e pokope sendar la vortari a nia Sekretario pri Li= nguo se lu interesesas pri to, o forsan lu povas questionar pri vortaro ma= nkanta en Ido. La vortari inkluzas feldi tam diferanta kam geografio, vest= i, parti dil domo, insekti, edc. Ka me sendos ta vortari? Vi omna standez= bone, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1407 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69915 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 09:59:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2004 09:59:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2004 09:59:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2004 09:58:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.188] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2004 09:58:32 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:58:28 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 921 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar Eduardo, Pliz, sendez la vortari da Clar=EDn anke por me, hike o alt= raloke. Danko, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Eduardo A= . Rodi" wrote: > > Kara samideani, > > De kelka tempo me= recevas suplemento dil jurnalo Arjentina "Clar=EDn", > qua prizentas dez= egnuri di diversa elementi e lia nomo en sis lingui: > Hispana, Angla, Po= rtugalana, Itala, Franca e Germana. *Quoniam ta > lingui esas preske le sa= ma kam la lingui DEFIRS, me pensas ke forsan > ta suplemento povus utiles= ar por la formacado di nova vortaro > mankanta, e do me pensabas pri taipa= r e pokope sendar la vortari a > nia Sekretario pri Linguo se lu intereses= as pri to, o forsan lu povas > questionar pri vortaro mankanta en Ido. La= vortari inkluzas feldi tam > diferanta kam geografio, vesti, parti dil d= omo, insekti, edc. Ka me > sendos ta vortari? > > Vi omna standez bone, = > > Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1408 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38422 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 23:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2004 23:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jacquard.numericable.net) (80.236.0.148) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2004 23:40:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 4016 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 23:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by jacquard.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 29 Nov 2004 23:39:46 -0000 Message-ID: <000e01c4d66d$624fe900$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:44:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.148 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: la sufixo -am. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit La franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront (1915) donas la sequanta defino jouisseur : ju-ero, -emo; plezur-am-anto. Me ne trovas en la KGD la sufixo -am. Kad ol existas vere ? Predanko pro vua helpo. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1410 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44570 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2004 04:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2004 04:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2004 04:57:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2004 04:56:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.253] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Nov 2004 04:56:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:56:31 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000e01c4d66d$624fe900$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 595 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: la sufixo -am. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Loic, Me opinionas ke -am ne es un sufixo, ke plezur-am-o esis un = kompozajo (nom compos=E9) di plezuro ed amo, ma ke kompreneble -ant es un= sufixo. Plu interesa esus la opiniono di James. Amike, Jacques * --- = In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loic Landais" wrote: = > La franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront (1915) donas la = sequanta defino > jouisseur : ju-ero, -emo; plezur-am-anto. > > Me ne tro= vas en la KGD la sufixo -am. Kad ol existas vere ? > > Predanko pro vua he= lpo. > Loik > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1411 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@firenet.uk.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89654 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2004 07:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2004 07:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wg01.tf-th.murphx.net) (62.53.3.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2004 07:23:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 19686 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2004 23:10:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SonyFX805) (62.55.99.170) by 62.53.3.52 with SMTP for ; 29 Nov 2004 23:10:21 -0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:01:12 GMT Message-ID: <2004112923112.314538@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Delivery-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:01:12 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 62.53.3.52 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Kara Eduardo, Yes, voluntez sendar kelka tala vortari. Me havas libro qua= esas ulgrade simila ma sen Italiana e Portugalana: "The visual dictionary:= English, French, German, Spanish" da Jean-Claude Corbeil ed Ariane Archamb= ault (QA International, Montreal, Quebec, Kanada; 1999, 959 pagini). Preske= omna pagino (ecepte la lasta 125 pagini por indexi dil vorti) havas imajo = od imaji kun vorti ligita a parto quan li koncernas. Multa danki. Robert.= _________________ Ye 29 Nov 2004 06:38:45 -0000, Eduardo A. Rodi skribis:= > > >=A0Kara samideani, > >=A0De kelka tempo me recevas suplemento dil jur= nalo Arjentina >=A0"Clar=EDn", qua prizentas dezegnuri di diversa elementi = e lia nomo en >=A0sis lingui: Hispana, Angla, Portugalana, Itala, Franca e = Germana. * >=A0Quoniam ta lingui esas preske le sama kam la lingui DEFIRS, = me >=A0pensas ke forsan ta suplemento povus utilesar por la formacado di >= =A0nova vortaro mankanta, e do me pensabas pri taipar e pokope sendar >=A0l= a vortari a nia Sekretario pri Linguo se lu interesesas pri to, o >=A0forsa= n lu povas questionar pri vortaro mankanta en Ido. La vortari >=A0inkluzas = feldi tam diferanta kam geografio, vesti, parti dil domo, >=A0insekti, edc.= Ka me sendos ta vortari? > >=A0Vi omna standez bone, > >=A0Eduardo A. RODI= . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1412 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17155 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2004 12:16:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2004 12:16:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2004 12:16:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 28408 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2004 12:15:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 30 Nov 2004 12:15:27 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c4d6d6$f3a5eee0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:20:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: la sufixo -am. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Danko Jacques pro vua respondo pri "plezur-am-anto" . Fakte la franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront (1915) donas : aimer : (tr. : qqn) amar ; (d'amour) amorar ; (qqch.) prizar (ulo) Do "plezur-amor-anto" e "plezur-priz-anto" devus esar tam valida kam "plezur-am-o" Fine "juero" esas plu simpla. Ka ne ? Amikale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "jacquesdehe" � : Envoy� : mardi 30 novembre 2004 02:53 Objet : [linguo] Re: la sufixo -am. Kara Loic, Me opinias ke -am ne es un sufixo, ke plezur-am-o esis un kompozajo (nom compos�) di plezuro ed amo. Amike, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Loic Landais" wrote: > La franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront (1915) donas la sequanta defino > jouisseur : ju-ero, -emo; plezur-am-anto. > > Me ne trovas en la KGD la sufixo -am. Kad ol existas vere ? > > Predanko pro vua helpo. > Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1413 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@data54.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63698 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 06:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 06:51:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 06:51:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 06:51:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.138] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 06:51:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:50:54 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 918 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.43 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=119980483 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Robert, Jacques ed altri, Nextasemane, me komencos vakancar, e do me havos plusa tempo por kopiar la vortari promizita. Intertempe, me publikigas la listo dil temi quin kontenas l'enciklopedio. Voluntez savigar da me per qua feldo konvenas ke me komencez, od altravorte, quo es la feldo pri qua Ido bezonas plu multa vortaro, o pri qua nun laboras l'ULI. Pluse, saveskez ke me duras komprar la enciklopedio. Me parhavos ol ante la fino di ca yaro, do la feldin quin me skribas sub la lineo me povos kopiar erste pos kelka tempo. Yen la feldi: - Astronomio - Tero - Vejetali - Animali - Homo - Manjaji e Koquo - Hemo - Brikolo e Gardenlaboro - Vesti - Korpal beleso e Personalaji (exemple: pektilo, razilo, edc.) - Arto e Arkitekturo ------------------------------------------------ - Komuniko e Kontoralaji - Vehili - Energio - Cienci (ne sociala) - Socio - Sporto e Ludi Standez bone, Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1414 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20554 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2004 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2004 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2004 08:34:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 08:33:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.161] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2004 08:33:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 08:33:18 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1192 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Eduardo, Me dankas vu. Me lasas Roberto selektar la unesma temo. Omna temi interesas me. Cordiale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Eduardo A. Rodi" wrote: > > Kara Robert, Jacques ed altri, > > Nextasemane, me komencos vakancar, e do me havos plusa tempo por > kopiar la vortari promizita. Intertempe, me publikigas la listo dil > temi quin kontenas l'enciklopedio. Voluntez savigar da me per qua > feldo konvenas ke me komencez, od altravorte, quo es la feldo pri qua > Ido bezonas plu multa vortaro, o pri qua nun laboras l'ULI. Pluse, > saveskez ke me duras komprar la enciklopedio. Me parhavos ol ante la > fino di ca yaro, do la feldin quin me skribas sub la lineo me povos > kopiar erste pos kelka tempo. Yen la feldi: > > - Astronomio > - Tero > - Vejetali > - Animali > - Homo > - Manjaji e Koquo > - Hemo > - Brikolo e Gardenlaboro > - Vesti > - Korpal beleso e Personalaji (exemple: pektilo, razilo, edc.) > - Arto e Arkitekturo > ------------------------------------------------ > - Komuniko e Kontoralaji > - Vehili > - Energio > - Cienci (ne sociala) > - Socio > - Sporto e Ludi > > Standez bone, > > Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1415 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@firenet.uk.net X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73541 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 21:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 21:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wg01.tf-th.murphx.net) (62.53.3.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 21:02:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 15359 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 21:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO SonyFX805) (62.55.100.121) by 62.53.3.52 with SMTP for ; 3 Dec 2004 21:04:47 -0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:03:53 GMT Message-ID: <200412321353.938789@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Delivery-Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:03:54 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 62.53.3.52 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Kara Eduardo, Vu voluntez selektar. Sen vidar e studiar listo me ne povas= savar quanta vorti me prenus de listo. Se vu havas nula prefero, me selek= tus "Tero". Robert. Eduardo A. Rodi skribis: >=A0Kara Robert, Jacques ed = altri, > >=A0Nextasemane, me komencos vakancar, e do me havos plusa tempo p= or >=A0kopiar la vortari promizita. Intertempe, me publikigas la listo dil = >=A0temi quin kontenas l'enciklopedio. Voluntez savigar da me per qua >=A0f= eldo konvenas ke me komencez, od altravorte, quo es la feldo pri >=A0qua Id= o bezonas plu multa vortaro, o pri qua nun laboras l'ULI. >=A0Pluse, savesk= ez ke me duras komprar la enciklopedio. Me parhavos ol >=A0ante la fino di = ca yaro, do la feldin quin me skribas sub la lineo >=A0me povos kopiar erst= e pos kelka tempo. Yen la feldi: From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1416 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41873 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2004 21:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2004 21:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2004 21:21:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 21:21:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.155] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2004 21:21:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:21:04 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200412321353.938789@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 994 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.44 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] Vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Eduardo, La temo "Tero" interesas me anke Me predankas vu e saluta= s kordiale, Jacques * .--- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Kara Eduardo, > > Vu voluntez selektar. > > Sen vidar e= studiar listo me ne povas savar quanta vorti me prenus de listo. > > Se = vu havas nula prefero, me selektus "Tero". > > Robert. > > Eduardo A. Rod= i skribis: > >=A0Kara Robert, Jacques ed altri, > > > >=A0Nextasemane, me k= omencos vakancar, e do me havos plusa tempo por > >=A0kopiar la vortari pro= mizita. Intertempe, me publikigas la listo dil > >=A0temi quin kontenas l'= enciklopedio. Voluntez savigar da me per qua > >=A0feldo konvenas ke me kom= encez, od altravorte, quo es la feldo pri > >=A0qua Ido bezonas plu multa v= ortaro, o pri qua nun laboras l'ULI. > >=A0Pluse, saveskez ke me duras komp= rar la enciklopedio. Me parhavos ol > >=A0ante la fino di ca yaro, do la f= eldin quin me skribas sub la lineo > >=A0me povos kopiar erste pos kelka t= empo. Yen la feldi: From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1417 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54567 invoked from network); 8 Dec 2004 09:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Dec 2004 09:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Dec 2004 09:30:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2004 09:30:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Dec 2004 09:30:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:30:04 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 122 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: espero di chanjo deceptata X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Un bona signo di chanjo esus la liberigo dil lexiko oficala dil ido rapide disponebla per la reto. Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1418 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41935 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2004 20:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2004 20:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Dec 2004 20:19:05 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 548801A36A; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:18:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c4e150$e9297ca0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:18:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 271 (mayo - agosto 1984) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 271 (mayo - agosto 1984) - 1.443 kB Kontenajo: - En nia venonta numeri - Regnier, Franz - Kompetenta judiko - Bol, Jacques - Arbori kom testi - En l'ero dil tradukmashini - Juste, Andreas - Antwerpen - Cock, Camiel de - La sistemo di Balnibarbi - G.S.R. - Balado pri du rozi - Brismark, Hans - Enigmati en nia literaturo - Juste, Andreas Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.813 / Virus Database: 553 - Release Date: 13-12-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1419 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87089 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2004 20:31:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Dec 2004 20:31:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2004 20:31:04 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 208D65F088; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:31:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c4e21b$d4947530$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:31:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 296 (septembro - decembro 1992) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 296 (septembro - decembro 1992) = - 1.527 kB Kontenajo: - Skisuro di la historio dil Ido-movado en Hungari= a - Flittner, J=E1nos - Nova glacial epoko? - Neussner, Heidi - La sekr= eti di Hildegard - Juste, Andreas - La periodo kande aparis Ido - Wes= ton, David - La 100% garantio - Ford, Kevin (Traduko - originala autoro:= John B. Palmer) - Itere ridez ni bonkordiale pri linguala uzado (sequo) -= Steve, Edward - Yogurto kom eduko-helpo - Steinmann, Elisabeth - = Extrakto de angelpeskisti - Kasper, Marion (Traduko - originala autoro: Han= s Klecker) - Motivo rankorar ad ulu - Kasper, Marion (Traduko - originala = autoro: E. Heller) Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la ofic= ala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/prog= reso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heem= skerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - = Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio= forumo Karl Marx : Die Religion ist der Seufzer der bedr=E4ngten Kreatu= r, das Gem=FCt einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie der Geist geistloser Zust=E4nd= e ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volkes. --- Outgoing mail is certified Vir= us Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version= : 6.0.813 / Virus Database: 553 - Release Date: 13-12-2004 [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1420 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48675 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 06:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 06:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 06:52:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 06:52:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.114] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2004 06:52:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:52:13 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 221 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Colombo o Kolombo? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Saluto amiki, Quo esas apta formo di nomo di deskovristo Kristofer Kolumbus (= Fina-linguala formo)? En Wikipedio esas uzata Cristoforo Colombo. Ka K-litero esus plu bona? Do Kristoforo Kolombo? questionas Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1421 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60381 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 09:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 09:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.185) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 09:40:19 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Ces7O-0003AO-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:40:18 +0100 Received: from [212.114.239.93] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Ces7O-00040W-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:40:18 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c4e353$3eeb8670$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: References: Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:38:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.185 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Re: [linguo] Colombo o Kolombo? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara samideano Arto Moisio! "Kristof Kolumbus" ne nur esas plu bona, ma me= m korekta segun la skrib-maniero en Ido. "Cristoforo Colombo" unesme sembl= as esar esperantigita, ma men en Esperanto on uzus la "K" vice la "C", pro = ke la "C" sive en Ido sive en Esperanto sen ecepto esas la equivalanto dil = Germana litero "Z". Kordiala saluti Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1422 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56590 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2004 18:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2004 18:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2004 18:36:25 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id D44A825127; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:36:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <00c401c4e39e$25dd3b10$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:36:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 287 (septembro-decembro 1989) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 287 (septembro-decembro 1989) - = 1.645 kB Kontenajo: - Memoraji pri l'Ido-konfero en Thalwil - L= a agento di evolucionado? - Steve, Edward - Nova problemi linguala - Ja= cob, Henry - En historio di linguistiko - Juste, Andreas - Serchante la= originala linguo - Weston, David - Domajo en nia ekosistemo - Garcia, Jos= =E9 - Supliko dil arboro - Juste, Andreas (Traduko) - Nekrologio di= Ernst Anderegg - Kreis-Schneeberger, Clara Ol esas, kun altra anci= ena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: htt= p://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti am= ikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.n= l http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/= ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Karl Marx : Die Religion ist der = Seufzer der bedr=E4ngten Kreatur, das Gem=FCt einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie= der Geist geistloser Zust=E4nde ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volkes. ---= Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (h= ttp://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release Da= te: 15-12-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1423 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33583 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2004 14:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2004 14:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.176) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2004 14:43:28 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Cfflr-0002Xw-00; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:41:23 +0100 Received: from [212.114.237.129] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Cfflr-0006FU-00; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:41:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c4e50f$a29747f0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Robert Pontnau" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:41:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.176 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Felicoza Kristnasko! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Estimata gesamideani! Per ico me informas vi, ke me inter la 20esma di dec= embro e la 07esma di januaro esos absenta de mea hemo e konseque ne recevos= la mesaji sendota a la interreta Ido-forumi e ne partoprenos la diskuti ib= e. Me deziras ad omna Idoamiki ed interesati Felicoza Kristnasko e prosper= oza Nova Yaro 2005. Kordiala saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper frank.kasper@id= o.li From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1424 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92290 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2004 19:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2004 19:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13308.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.44) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2004 19:30:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 62395 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Dec 2004 19:30:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20041219193043.62393.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.122] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:30:43 CET Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:30:43 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000001c4e353$3eeb8670$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.44 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Colombo o Kolombo? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Maxim kordial saluto ad Arto, Frank ed omni! Quankam me ne ja profundigis la hika temo, me ya intuicas ke "Kristof Kolumbus" ne es la maxim apta nomo por ta famoza deskovristo. Unesme, me tre 'dubtas' ke, dum preske cent yari, nulu skribabas pri ta personajo, ke il ankor ne havas sua nomo en Ido. Forsan, che Progreso ni trovus ol. Pretenar "Kristof Kolumbus" es ya sama kam propozar "CristObal ColOn" (en la Hispana), o "CristOfol ColOm" (en la Kataluna). Tala nomo aspektas tre stranja a me, same kam se ni referus a "Jam Kukus" por James Cook", anke deskovristo. Se ni aceptas, kom preske certa, ke l' protagonisto naskis en Savona/Genova (Italia), ilua vera nomo esabus "Cristoforo Colombo". Forsan, cakaze, ni darfas Latinizar ol (Christopherus Columbus) e pose Idigar ol (Kristofero Kolumbo). Ni havas Kolumbia. Tal es la nomo en Esperanto, e me parkomprenas lo: Ido devas diferar ad Esperanto nur kande lo es necesa. Tamen, me kredas ke ne es bona diskutar pri propra nomi izolite, ma pri l' toteso ek oli. Ka "Marco Polo, Marcus Polus o Marko Polo?". Til baldege, kara samlinguani! P A R T A K A --- Frank Kasper skribis: --------------------------------- Kara samideano Arto Moisio! "Kristof Kolumbus" ne nur esas plu bona, ma mem korekta segun la skrib-maniero en Ido. "Cristoforo Colombo" unesme semblas esar esperantigita, ma men en Esperanto on uzus la "K" vice la "C", pro ke la "C" sive en Ido sive en Esperanto sen ecepto esas la equivalanto dil Germana litero "Z". Kordiala saluti Frank Kasper ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1425 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13883 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2004 20:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2004 20:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13305.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.41) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Dec 2004 20:10:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 31202 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Dec 2004 20:10:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20041219201050.31200.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.122] by web13305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:10:50 CET Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:10:50 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.41 From: Partaka Subject: Quika korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Pri mea preirinta mesajo, yen mea quika korektiguri: - Latinizar ol -> Latinigar ol - Christopherus Columbus -> Christophorus Columbus - Kristofero Kolumbo -> Kristoforo Kolumbo Yen la nomo: Kristoforo Kolumbo. Exkuzez me! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1426 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40008 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 03:41:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 03:41:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.118) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 03:41:27 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041220034126.KRJS2405.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:41:26 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.135] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041220034126.KXUM24080.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:41:26 +1300 To: Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:41:26 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041220034126.KXUM24080.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.118 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Quika korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Partaka, Segun la KGD "La nomo personal...esas la proprietajo dil personi qui nomesas per oli, devas restar netushebla". Konseque me kredas ke kustume tala nomi ne bezonas Ido tradukuro o mem Ido espelado. Takaze, ni uzus Cristoforo Colombo se il esas Italiano. Komprenende la litero "c" havas pronunco = "s" avan "e" e "i", ed = "k" avan "a", "o" o "u". Ta pronunco on facile lernos. En Esperanto, omna nomi havas Espersanto-espelado e ni havas la negracila "Kembrigho" = "Cambridge" en Anglia! Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Partaka > Date: 2004/12/20 Mon AM 09:10:50 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] Quika korektiguri > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1427 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80254 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2004 21:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Dec 2004 21:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13304.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.40) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Dec 2004 21:57:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 65272 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Dec 2004 21:57:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20041220215719.65270.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.183] by web13304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:57:19 CET Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:57:19 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041220034126.KXUM24080.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.40 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Quika korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara Richard: Kande ni traktas pri l' deskovristo Kristoforo Kolumbo, ni ya referas a personajo tre enigmatoza, vivinta 500 yari ante nun. Quankam es preske certa ke lu esis Savonano/Genovano (Italiano), lo ne ja es absoluta certajo: il povus esir Kataluno, Balearano e mem Portugalano (la familio-nomo "Colom" ya es tre komuna Katalun-lingue, e anke l' nomo "CristOfol/ CristOfor' ya es sat komuna, specale che Baleari. Segun semblas, ilua patro rekomendabis ad il pri celar admaxime sua vera identeso, sua origini (pro motivi sekuresal). Probable, il esis konversa Judo. Me kredas ke, adminime serioze, ni devas referar, exemple, a Tony Blair (ne Antonius Blerus o Blero, edc.), nam ita ya es ilua vera nomo personal. Tamen, kande ni traktas pri homi qui nomesas per diferanta nomi da diferanta lingui e kulturi, ni devas helpar ni da la Latina. E tale ni agas, por exemplo, kande ni referas al Santaro. Anke "nia omna Santi" naskis ulafoye ulaloke, ma ni ya nomas li per tre diversa nomi, segun nia propra matro-linguo e kulturo. Pro lo, talkaze, ni unesme kustumas Latinigar lia nomi, e pose, me kredas ke ni devas Idigar oli. Quale vu nomas la nuna papo? Ka John Paul II? Tamen, me ya nomas lu, sive per Joan Pau II, sive per Juan Pablo II. Ma ni omna havas Ioannes Paulus II. E tala nomo, uladie, ja modernigita ed Idigita, divenos proxime yena: Joano-Paulo II. Ne suciez pro Cambridge! Ol sempre esos tale en Ido. Ma pri Kristoforo Kolumbo, me 'opinas' ke Esperanto agis bone, e ni devus uzar ta sama nomo. Recevez mea maxim kordial saluto! P A R T A K A --- rich.steven@xtra.co.nz skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Segun la KGD "La nomo personal...esas la proprietajo dil personi qui nomesas per oli, devas restar netushebla". Konseque me kredas ke kustume tala nomi ne bezonas Ido tradukuro o mem Ido espelado. Takaze, ni uzus Cristoforo Colombo se il esas Italiano. Komprenende la litero "c" havas pronunco = "s" avan "e" e "i", ed = "k" avan "a", "o" o "u". Ta pronunco on facile lernos. En Esperanto, omna nomi havas Espersanto-espelado e ni havas la negracila "Kembrigho" = "Cambridge" en Anglia! Amikale, Richard S. ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1428 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59313 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 06:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 06:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.32) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 06:51:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 06:51:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.170] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Dec 2004 06:51:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 06:51:34 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20041220215719.65270.qmail@web13304.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2051 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.32 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] Quika korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Partaka skribis: > Quale vu nomas la nuna papo? Ka John P= aul II? > Tamen, me ya nomas lu, sive per Joan Pau II, sive > per Juan Pabl= o II. Ma ni omna havas Ioannes Paulus II. > E tala nomo, uladie, ja moderni= gita ed Idigita, > divenos > proxime yena: Joano-Paulo II. Segun reguli q= uin me lernis dum studiar Angla-tradukismo, la nomi di imperiestri, reji e= papi devas esar "tradukata" aden la linguo en qua onu parolas. Do li hava= s tam multa nomi kam lingui existas. Anke, exemple, la Rejino di Anglia no= mesas Isabel por Hispane-parolanti, dum ke elua filio maxim olda esas "Pr= =EDncipe Carlos". E supozeble, Angle-parolanti konocas la rejulo Hispana k= om John Charles, ka? Kontree, altra homi havas la sama nomo en omna lingui= . George Bush ne esas "H: Jorge Arbusto", e "Jos=E9 Luis Rodr=EDguez Zapat= ero" ne esas "A: Joseph Lewis Rodriguez Shoemaker"! Tamem la klasiki kelk= afoye ya havas nomi diferanta: A: Plato, H: Plat=F3n; A: Columbus, H: Col= =F3n. E me adjuntas un plusa questiono al diskuto. Quale agar pri la vort= i derivata de nomi propra? Exemple, en Hispania esis la diktatoro Franco = /franko/, e lua apogeri apartenis al "franquismo" /frankismo/ e li esis "f= ranquistas" /frankistas/. La chanjo de "c" a "qu" es obligata por mantenar= la sono di /k/ en la Hispana, ma ol esus absurda en Ido. Quale skribar do= , "franquismo" e "franquista" en Ido? Ka "Frankismo", "Frankisto", malgre = ke la diktatoro duras esar nomata "Franco"? Kad on retenas la "o" di Franc= o ed on dicas: "Franco- ismo, Franco-isto"? Takaze, la regulo devas esar sa= ma por omna nomi. Ma, ka ni agas same por nomi en qui la vokalo finala ne = preiresas da konsonanto pronuncata diferente en la linguo di origino, segu= n la letro qua sequas? Exemple, ka ni dicas "Castro-ismo", "Zapata-ismo", = e mem... "Ido-ismo"? Koncerne la enciklopedio quan me promisis transskrib= ar, voluntez esar pacienta. Me ne pensis ke olu esas tante longa! Ma me ja= laboras pri to. E me balde esperas publikigor adminime parto de olu. Sta= ndez bone, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1429 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37927 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 16:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 16:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60801.mail.yahoo.com) (216.155.196.64) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 16:32:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26233 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Dec 2004 16:31:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=x61GeMt1DwWS49lOSGdKF33zOsKRoTijH4wbWGTNhVmVAxvXVWHZVuTLyq33kJoFl51olocat/ap2lBcKVvi5NYWbuXaRDv9+04TeJwWrYrosdjtTyHqZ/AQDcUyYaC1oLvi24LQ4rsmkEnUb8HIFsjt+CQTYzpL082MVWZ+0mg= ; Message-ID: <20041221163144.26231.qmail@web60801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60801.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:31:43 PST Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) To: uli-ido@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pontnau , Mailingliste Linguolisto , Mailingliste Idolisto , Mailingliste Geylesidist , Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist In-Reply-To: <000f01c4e50f$a29747f0$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.155.196.64 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [uli-ido] Felicoza Kristnasko! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Frank, FELICA Kristnasko a tu ed al altra amiki! Don Frank Kasper skribis: Estimata gesamideani! Per ico me informas vi, ke me inter la 20esma di decembro e la 07esma di januaro esos absenta de mea hemo e konseque ne recevos la mesaji sendota a la interreta Ido-forumi e ne partoprenos la diskuti ibe. Me deziras ad omna Idoamiki ed interesati Felicoza Kristnasko e prosperoza Nova Yaro 2005. Kordiala saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper frank.kasper@ido.li --------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1430 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79314 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2004 16:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2004 16:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Dec 2004 16:57:30 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id 584EF1A529; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:57:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <009c01c4e77e$284a9ad0$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:57:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: "Vaganto" Subject: La nova Progreso; n-ro 332 (Septembro - Decembro 2004) + Progreso dijitala 331 (mayo - agosto 2004) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki, Progreso nr. 332 (Septembro - Decembro 2004) esas pronta e bald= e esos dissendata. Kontenajo di Progreso 332: - Impresi de Sudafrika - Ro= bert Pontnau - Pro quo? Pro quo? - Friedrich Porzenheim - La voko di la d= ezerto - Lynne Warren; tradukita da Ronald Bijtenhoorn - Tiranosauro - Cit= aji: BBC ed ABC - de Richard Stevenson - Vesperala sentimenti - Friedrich = Porzenheim - Same kam - Jorge Camacho; tradukita da Gon=E7alo Neves - Pen= si pri la naturo - Friedrich Porzenheim - Historiala skiso pri Toulouse - = Tradukita da Robert Pontnau - L' aventurero - Armando; tradukita da Hans S= tuifbergen - Kelka mikra lektaji interesiva - Friedrich Porzenheim - La s= plino di Paris (Ye un kloko matine, La desespero dil oldino, La ludileto di= l povro) - Charles Baudelaire; tradukita da Sady Rataichesck - Vorti por nu= anci en Ido - Richard Stevenson - Tua hari - Gon=E7alo Neves - Kelka pens= i pri la realeso di nia vivo - Friedrich Porzenheim - Pri frequa ed ofta -= Gon=E7alo Neves - Espero vintrala - Friedrich Porzenheim - Rakonto absol= uta - Hans Andreus; tradukita da Hans Stuifbergen - Le Fitzgerald -= Kompilita e tradukita da Ronald Bijtenhoorn E pro la balda apero di Pro= greso 332 me enretigis cafoye: Progreso 331 (mayo - agosto 2004) - 1.039 k= B Kontenajo: - Chagreno e doloro - Friedrich Porzenheim - La Trilobiti= - tradukita da Richard Stevenson - Nu, dicez duadek-ed-un kontre vua un-e= -duadek - Mieke Zijlmans; tradukita da HHans Stuifbergen - Jornesko someral= a - an la lageto parkala - Friedrich Porzenheim - Pro quo ni havas la vort= o 'Avanbrakio'? - Gon=E7alo Neves - Aquo - Friedrich Porzenheim - Problem= atra vorti en Ido - Richard Stevenson - La Kraso dil tero - Arthur Koestle= r; tradukita da James Chandler - Un semano en Ukraina - Hans Stuifbergen = - La migranto - Friedrich Porzenheim Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri = di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bij= tenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ron= ald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://i= o.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikiped= io/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Karl Marx : Die Religion ist der Seufzer der= bedr=E4ngten Kreatur, das Gem=FCt einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie der Geist = geistloser Zust=E4nde ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volkes. --- Outgoing m= ail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.g= risoft.com). Version: 6.0.818 / Virus Database: 556 - Release Date: 17-12-2= 004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1431 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61382 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2004 03:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Dec 2004 03:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.119) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2004 03:51:50 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041222035149.NSWF1639.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:51:49 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20041222035148.QHPU16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:51:48 +1300 To: Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:51:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20041222035148.QHPU16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.119 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Quika korektiguri X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Partaka, Pro vua *resercho es evidenta ke Kristoforo Kolumbo havas misterioza origino. Do la Latina nomo kun Ido espelado es apta. Hodie, la geografiala atlasi semblas uzar la nomi en la linguo di ta lando. Interesante, hike en Nov-Zelando onu devas uzar la Polineziala nomo vice la posa nomo quan la koloniisti donis. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Partaka > Date: 2004/12/21 Tue AM 10:57:19 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [linguo] Quika korektiguri > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1432 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62403 invoked from network); 22 Dec 2004 04:26:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Dec 2004 04:26:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Dec 2004 04:26:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Dec 2004 04:26:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.113] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Dec 2004 04:26:37 -0000 Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:26:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 145 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.43 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Reakti esperantista in Idia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe La esperantisti in Idia reaktas maxime kontre me pro ke me konstitucas un minaco serioza kontre lia kontrolo dil Idia. Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1433 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88429 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 06:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 06:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 06:31:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 06:31:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 06:31:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:31:24 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 18388 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.44 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: De l'Enciklopedio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Yen l'unesma parto dil Enciklopedio quan me promisis trad= ukar. Co esas proxime un triimo de la tota chapitro pri "Tero". Por evita= r konfundo, e konseque, erori, me sequis la linguo-ordino qua aparas en la= Enciklopedio ipsa, malgre ke olu diferas del tradicionala DEFIRS. La ling= uo-ordino esas: Hispana|Angla|Portugala|Itala|Franca|Germana Per la signo= "|" me separas la nomi en singla linguo. Per parentezi, me indikas vorti = omisebla del nomo. Exemple: Onu darfas dicar en la Hispana: "L=EDnea del E= cuador" o simple: "Ecuador". Do me skribas: "(L=EDnea del) Ecuador". E per= la signo "/" me separas du varianti por la sama ideo en la sama linguo. = Forsan kelka nomi aparas dufoye. Lo esas pro ke li esas en diferanta dezeg= nuri. Me intencis evitar riskribar elementi iterata, ma es posibla ke me t= amen skribis ulo plurfoye neintence. Se on bezonas la datumi formala dil e= nciklopedio, yen oli. La verko nomesas en la Hispana "Diccionario visual 6= idiomas", da Jean-Claude Corbell e Ariane Archambault. La kopiyuro aparte= nas a QA International, 2004 (omna yuri rezervita). E la verko publikesis = (e duras ankore publikesar) per la jurnalo Arjentina "Clar=EDn", ye singla= mardio e venerdio. Se ulu trovas irga eroro, voluntez indikar lo a me en= ta forumo. Ma remarkez ke la enciklopedio avertas ke "kelkafoye eventas k= e plura vorti employesas por aludar la sama realajo. En ta kazi, on selek= tabas la vorto employata maxim freque dal autori maxim konocata." Do forsa= n vi konocas ula kozo per nomo diferanta de ta qua aparas hike. Fine, se = ulo ne komprenesas, voluntez indikar lo a me en ta forumo, por ke me deskr= iptez l'imajo di qua la nomo ne komprenesas. Do, yen la vorti, e Felica Ya= ro Nova por vi omna. Eduardo A. RODI. *Geograf=EDa|Geography|Geografia|= Geografia|Geographie|Geographie *configuraci=F3n de los continentes|configu= ration of the continents|configura=E7=E3o dos continentes|carta dei conti= nenti|configuration des continents|Lage der Kontinente *planisferio|planisp= here|planisf=E9rio|planisfero|planisph=E8re|Erdoberfl=E4 che *=C1rtico|Arct= ic|=C1rtico|Artide|Arctique|Arktis *Am=E9rica Central|Central America|Am=E9= rica Central|America Centrale|Am=E9rique centrale|Mittelamerika *Oc=E9ano = Pac=EDfico|Pacific Ocean|Oceano Pac=EDfico|Oceano Pacifico|Oc=E9an Pacifiq= ue|Pazifik *Mar Caribe|Caribbean Sea|Mar do Caribe|Mar Caribico|Mer des An= tilles|Karibik *Oc=E9ano Atl=E1ntico|Atlantic Ocean|Oceano Atl=E2ntico|Ocea= no Atlantico|Oc=E9an Atlantique|Atlantik *Mar de Groenlandia|Greenland Sea= |mar da Groenl=E2ndia|Mar di Groenlandia|Mer du Groenland|Gr=F6nlandsee *M= ar del Norte|North Sea|Mar do Norte|Mare del Nord|Mer du Nord|Nordsee *Mar= Mediterr=E1neo|Mediterranean Sea|Mar Mediterr=E2neo|Mar Mediterraneo|Mer = M=E9diterran=E9e|Mittelmeer *Mar Negro|Black Sea|Mar Negro|Mar Nero|Mer Noi= re|Schwarzes Meer *Mar Caspio|Caspian Sea|Mar C=E1spio|Mar Caspio|Mer Casp= ienne|Kaspisches Meer *Mar de la China Meridional|South China Sea|Mar da Ch= ina|Mar Cinese Meridionale|Mer de Chine m=E9ridionale|S=FCdchinesisches Me= er *Oc=E9ano Glacial =C1rtico|Arctic Ocean|Oceano =C1rtico|Mar Glaciale Ar= tico|Oc=E9an Arctique|Nordpolarmeer *Mar de Bering|Bering Sea|Mar de Bering= |Mar di Bering|Mer de B=E9ring|Beringsee *Mar Rojo|Red Sea|Mar Vermelho|Ma= r Rosso|Mer Rouge|Rotes Meer *Oc=E9ano =CDndico|Indian Ocean|Oceano =CDndic= o|Oceano Indiano|Oc=E9an Indien|Indischer Ocean *Ocean=EDa|Oceania|Oce=E2n= ia|Oceania|Oc=E9anie|Ozeanien *Australia|Australia|Austr=E1lia|Australia|Au= stralie|Australien *Golfo de Carpentaria|Gulf of Carpentaria|Golfo da Carpe= ntaria|Golfo di Carpentaria|Golfe de Carpentarie|Carpentariagolf *Gran Des= ierto de Arena|Great Sandy Desert|Grande Deserto de Areia|Gran Deserto Saa= bbioso|Grand D=E9sert de Sable|Gro=DFe Sandw=FCste *Gran Desierto Victoria|= Great Victoria Desert|Deserto de Grande Vit=F3ria|Gran Deserto Vittoria|Gr= and D=E9sert Victoria|Gro=DFe Victoriaw=FCste *Estrecho de Bass|Bass Strai= t|Estreito de Bass|Stretto di Bass|D=E9troit de Bass|Bass-Stra=DFe *Gran B= ah=EDa Australiana|Great Australian Bight|Golfo Grande Australiano|Grande = Baia Australiana|Grande Baie australienne|Gro=DFe Australische Bucht *Tasm= ania|Tasmania|Tasm=E2nia|Tasmania|Tasmanie|Tasmanien *Nueva Zelanda|New Zea= land|Nova Zel=E2ndia|Nuova Zelanda|Nouvelle- Z=E9lande|Neuseeland *Mar de T= asmania|Tasman Sea|Mar do Tasm=E2nia|Mare di Tasmania|Mer de Tasman|Tasman= see *Gran Cordillera Divisoria|Great Dividing Range|Fileira de montanhas q= ue dividem|Grande Catena Divisoria|Cordill=E8re Australienne|Australische = Kordilleren *Lago Eyre Norte|Lake Eyre North|Lago Eyre|Lago Eyre|Lac Eyre = North|Eyresee *Mar del Coral|Coral Sea|Mar de Coral|Mar dei Coralli|Mer de = Corail|Korallenmeer *Gran Barrera de Arrecifes|Great Barrier Reef|Recife B= arreira grande|Grande Barriera Corallina|R=E9cif de la Grande Barri=E8re|G= ro=DFes Barrierriff *Estrecho de Torres|Torres Strait|Desfiladeiro Torres|= Stretto di Torres|D=E9troit de Torres|Torresstra=DFe *Pap=FAa Nueva Guinea= |Papua New Guinea|Papua Nova Guin=E9|Papuasia-Nuova Guinea|Papouasie-Nouve= lle-Guin=E9e|Papua-Neuguinea *Melanesia|Melanesia|Melan=E9sia|Melanesia|M= =E9lan=E9sie|Melanesien *Nueva Caledonia|New Caledonian|Nova Caled=F4nia|Nu= ova Caledonia|Nouvelle-Cal=E9donie|Neukaledonien *Islas Fidji|Fiji Island|= Fiji|Isole Figi|=CEles Fidji|Fidschiinseln *Estrecho de Cook|Cook Strait|Es= treito de Cook|Stretto di Cook|D=E9troit de Cook|Cookstra=DFe *Ant=E1rtida= |Antarctica|Ant=E1rtida|Antartide|Antarctique|Antarktis *C=EDrculo polar an= t=E1rtico|Antarctic Circle|C=EDrculo Ant=E1rtico|Circolo Polare Antartico|= cercle polaire antarctique|s=FCdlicher Polarkreis *Pasaje de Drake|Drake Pa= ssage|Passagem Drake|Canale di Drake|D=E9troit de Drake|Drakestra=DFe *Mar= de Weddell|Weddell Sea|Mar de Weddell|Mare di Weddell|Mer de Weddell|Wedd= ellmeer *Pen=EDnsula Ant=E1rtica|Antarctic Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula Ant=E1rtic= a|Pen=EDsola Antartica|P=E9ninsule Antarctique|Antarktische Halbinsel *Bar= rera de hielo de Filchner|Filchner Ice Shelf|Resalto de Gelo Filchner|Banc= hisa di Filchner|Banquise de Filchner|Filchner-Schelfeis *Tierra de Marie B= yrd|Marie Byrd Land|Territ=F3rio Marie Byrd|Terra di Marie Byrd|Terre Mari= e-Byrd|Marie-Byrd-Land *Banquisa de hielo de Ross|Ross Ice Shelf|Resalto de= Gelo Ross|Banchisa di Ross|Banquise de Ross|Ross-Schelfeis *Montes Transa= nt=E1rticos|Transantarctic Mountains|Montanhas Transart=E1rticas|Monti Tra= nsantartici|Monts Transantarctiques|Transantarktisches Gebirge *Tierra de = Wilkes|Wilkes Land|Territ=F3rio Wilkes|Terra di Wilkes|Terre de Wilkes|Wil= kesland *Plataforma de hielo de Amery|Amery Ice Shelf|Resalto de Gelo Amer= y|Banchisa di Amery|Banquise d'Amery|Amery-Eisschelf *Tierra de la Reina Ma= ud|Queen Maud Land|Territ=F3rio Queen Maud|Terra della Regina Maud|Terre d= e la Reine-Maud|K=F6nigin-Maud-Land *Polo Sur|South Pole|P=F3lo Sul|Polo Su= d|P=F4le Sud|S=FCdpol *Am=E9rica del Norte|North America|Am=E9rica do Norte= |America Settentrionale|Am=E9rique du Nord|Nordamerika *Estrecho de Bering= |Bering Strait|Estreito de Bering|Stretto di Bering|D=E9troit de B=E9ring|= Beringstra=DFe *Islas Aleutianas|Aleutian Islands|Ilhas Aleutas|Isole Aleut= ine|=CEles Al=E9outiennes|Aleuten *Golfo de Alaska|Gulf of Alaska|Golfo de= Alasca|Golfo dell'Alaska|Golfe d'Alaska|Golf von Alaska *Monta=F1as Rocos= as|Rocky Mountains|montanhas de rochas|Montagne Rocciose|Montagnes Rocheus= ess|Rocky Mountains *Gran Ca=F1=F3n|Grand Canyon|Grande Canh=E3o|Grand Cany= on|Grand Canyon|Grand Canyon *Golfo de California|Gulf of California|Golfo= de Calif=F3rnia|Golfo di California|Golfe de Californie|Golf von Kaliforn= ien *Golfo de M=E9xico|Gulf of Mexico|Golfo de M=E9xico|Golfo del Messico|= Golfe du M=E9xique|Golf von Mexico *Pen=EDnsula de Yucat=E1n|Yucatan Penins= ula|Pen=EDnsula de Yucatan|Penisola dello Yucatan|P=E9ninsule du Yucatan|Y= ucatan-Halbinsel *Istmo de Panam=E1|Isthmus of Panama|Istmo de Panam=E1|Ist= mo di Panama|Isthme de Panama|Landenge von Panama *Antillas|West Indies|= =CDndias Ocidentais|Indie Occidentali|Antilles|Westindien *R=EDo Mississip= pi|Mississippi River|Rio Mississippi|Fiume Mississippi|Mississippi|Mississ= ippi *Montes Apalaches|Appalachian Mountains|Montanhas Apalaches|Monti App= alaachi|Appalaches|Appalachen *Rio San Lorenzo|Sain Lawrence River|Rio Sain= Lawrence|Fiume San Lorenzo|Saint-Laurent|Saint-Lorenz-Strom *Isla de Terr= anova|Newfoundland Island|Ilha Newfoundland|Isola di Terranova|=CEle de Te= rre-Neuve|Neufundland *Grandes Lagos|Great Lakes|Grandes Lagos|Grandi Laghi= |Grands Lacs|Gro=DFe Seen *Isla de Baffin|Baffin Island|Ilha Baffin|Isola = di Baffin|Terre de Baffin|Baffinland *Bah=EDa de Hudson|Hudson Bay|Ba=EDa = de Hudson|Baia di Hudson|Baie d'Hudson|Hudson Bay *Rio Mackenzie|Mackenzie= River|Rio Mackenzie|Fiume Mackenzie|Mackenzie|Mackenzie *Mar de Beaufort|= Beaufort Sea|Mar de Beaufort|Mar di Beaufort|Mer de Beaufort|Beaufortsee *= Am=E9rica del Sur|South America|Am=E9rica do Sul|America Meridionale|Am=E9= rique du Sud|S=FCdamerika *Golfo de Panam=E1|Gulf of Panama|Golfo de Panam= =E1|Golfo di Panama|Golfe de Panama|Golf von Panama *Cordillera de los And= es|Andes Cordillera|Cordilheira dos Andes|Cordigliera delle Ande|Cordill= =E8re des Andes|Anden *Lago Titicaca|Lake Titicaca|Lago Titicaca|Lago Titic= aca|Lac Titicaca|Titicacasee *Desierto de Atacama|Atacama Desert|Deserto d= e Atacama|Deserto di Atacama|D=E9sert d'Atacama|Atacama-W=FCste *Tierra de= l Fuego|Tierra del Fuego|Terra do Fogo|Terra del Fuoco|Terre de Feu|Feuerl= and *Cabo de Hornos|Cape Horn|Cabo de Hornos|Capo Horn|Cap Horn|Kap Horn *P= asaje de Drake|Drake Passage|Passagem Drake|Canale di Drake|D=E9troit de D= rake|Drakenstra=DFe *Islas Malvinas|Falkand Islands|Ilhas Malvinas|Isole Ma= lvinas|=CElhes Malvinas|Malvinas-Inseln *Patagonia|Patagonia|Patag=F4nia|P= atagonia|Patagonie|Patagonien *R=EDo Paran=E1|Paran=E1 River|Rio Paran=E1|F= iume Paran=E0|Parana|Paran=E1 *R=EDo Amazonas|Amazon River|Rio Amazonas|Rio= delle Amazone|Amazone|Amazonas *R=EDo Orinoco|Orinoco River|Rio Orinoco|F= iume Orinoco|Orinoque|Orinoko *Europa|Europe|Europa|Europa|Europe|Europa *M= ar de Noruega|Norwegian Sea|Mar da Noruega|Mar di Norvegia|Mer de Norv=E8g= e|Nordmeer *Islandia|Iceland|Isl=E2ndia|Islanda|Islande|Island *Pen=EDnsula= Escandinava|Scandinavian Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula Escandinava|Penisola Scand= inava|P=E9ninsule Scandinave|Skandinavische Halbinsel *Mar del Norte|North= Sea|Mar do Norte|Mare del Nord|Mer du Nord|Nordsee *Mar de Irlanda|Irish = Sea|Mar Irland=EAs|Mare d'Irlanda|Mer d'Irlanda|Irische See *Canal de la M= ancha|English Channel|Canal Ingl=EAs|Canale della Manica|Manche|=C4rmelkan= al *R=EDo V=EDstula|Vistula River|Rio Vistula|Fiume Vistola|Vistule|Weichse= l *Alpes|Alps|Alpes|Alpi|Alpes|Alpen *Pen=EDnsula Ib=E9rica|Iberian Peninsu= la|Pen=EDnsula Ib=E9rica|Penisola Iberica|P=E9ninsule Ib=E9rique|Iberische= Halbinsel *Estrecho de Gibraltar|Strait of Gibraltar|Estreito de Gibralta= r|Stretto di Gibilterra|D=E9troit de Gibraltar|Stra=DFe von Gibraltar *Pir= ineos|Pyrenees|Pireneus|Pirenei|Pyr=E9n=E9es|Pyren=E4en *Mar Mediterr=E1neo= |Mediterranean Sea|Mar Mediterr=E2neo|Mar Mediterraneo|Mer M=E9diterran=E9= e|Mittelmeer *R=EDo Danubio|Danube River|Rio Dan=FAbio|Fiume Danubio|Danube= |Donau *Mar Adri=E1tico|Adriatic Sea|Mar Adri=E1tico|Mar Adriatico|Mer Adr= iatique|Adria *Pen=EDnsula de los Balcanes|Balkan Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula Ba= lc=E2nica|Penisola Balcanica|P=E9ninsule des Balkans|Balkanhalbinsel *Mar E= geo|Aegean Sea|Mar Egeu|Mare Egeo|Mer =C9g=E9e|=C4g=E4is *Montes C=E1rpatos= |Carpathian Mountains|Montanhas Carpatian|Monti Carpazi|Carpates|Karpaten = *Mar Negro|Black Sea|Mar Negro|Mar Nero|Mer Noire|Schwarzes Meer *Montes Ur= ales|Ural Mountains|Montanhas Ural|Monti Urali|Monts Oural|Ural *R=EDo Vol= ga|Volga River|Rio Volga|Fiume Volga|Volga|Wolga *Mar de Barents|Barents Se= a|Mar de Barents|Mare di Barents|Mer de Barents|Barentssee *Pen=EDnsula de= Kola|Kola Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula de Kola|Penisola di Kola|Presqu'=EEle de = Kola|Kola-Halbinsel *Lago Ladoga|Lake Ladoga|Lago Ladoga|Lago Ladoga|Lac La= doga|Ladogasee *Golfo de Botnia|Gulf of Bothnia|Golfo de B=F3tnia|Golfo di = Botnia|Golfe de Botnie|Bottnishcer Meerbusen *R=EDo Dni=E9per|Dnieper Rive= r|Rio Dni=E9per|Fiume Dnepr|Diepr|Dnjepr *Mar B=E1ltico|Baltic Sea|Mar B=E1= ltico|Mar Baltico|Mer Baltique|Ostsee *Asia|Asia|=C1sia|Asia|Asie|Asien *Ma= r Rojo|Red Sea|Mar Vermelho|Mar Rosso|Mer Rouge|Rotes Meer *Mar Negro|Black= Sea|Mar Negro|Mar Nero|Mer Noire|Schwarzes Meer *Mar Caspio|Caspian Sea|Ma= r C=E1spio|Mar Caspio|Mer Caspienne|Kaspisches Meer *Mar de Aral|Aral Sea|= Mar Aral|Lago di Aral|Mer d'Aral|Aralsee *Lago Balkal|Lake Balkal|Lago Balk= al|Lago Balkal|Lac Balkal|Balkalsee *Desierto de Gobi|Gobi Desert|Deserto G= obi|Deserto del Gobi|D=E9sert de Gobi|W=FCste Gobi *Pen=EDnsula de Kamchat= ka|Kamchatka Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula de Kamchatka|Pen=EDsola di Camciatca|Pr= esqu'=EEle du Kamtchatka|Kamtschatka- Halbinsel *Mar del Jap=F3n|Sea of Jap= an|Mar do Jap=E3o|Mar del Giappone|Mer du Japon|Japanisches Meer *Jap=F3n|= Japan|Jap=E3o|Giappone|Japon|Japan *Pen=EDnsula de Corea|Korean Peninsula|P= en=EDnsula da Cor=E9ia|Penisola Coreana|Presqu'=EEle de Cor=E9e|Korea *Mar= de China Oriental|East China Sea|Mar do Leste da China|Mar Cinese Orienta= le|Mer de Chine Orientale|=D6stchinesisches Meer *Filipinas|Philippines|Fil= ipinas|Filippine|Philippines|Philippinen *Mar de China Meridional|South Chi= na Sea|Mar do Sul da China|Mar Cinese Meridionale|Mer de Chine M=E9ridiona= le|S=FCdchinesisches Meer *Indonesia|Indonesia|Indon=E9sia|Indonesia|Indone= sie|Indonesien *Bah=EDa de Bengala|Bay of Bengal|Baia de Bengal|Golfo del = Bengala|Golfe du Bengale|Golf von Bengalen *Himalaya|Himalayas|montanhas do= Himalaia|Himalaya|Himalaya|Himalaja *Golfo de Om=E1n|Gulf of Oman|Olfo de = Oman|Golfo di Oman|Golfe d'Oman|Golf von Oman *Mar Ar=E1bigo|Arabian Sea|M= ar Ar=E1bico|Mare Ar=E1bico|Mer d'Oman|Arabisches Mer *Golfo P=E9rsico|Per= sian Gulf|Golfo Persa|Golfo Persico|Golfe Persique|Persischer Golf *Pen=ED= nsula Ar=E1biga|Arabian Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula Arabe|Penisola Arabica|P=E9n= insule d'Arabie|Arabische Halbinsel *Golfo de Ad=E9n|Gulf of Aden|Golfo de = Aden|Golfo di Aden|Golfe d'Aden|Golf von Aden *=C1frica|Africa|=C1frica|Af= rica|Afrique|Afrika *R=EDo Senegal|Senegal River|Rio Senegal|Fiume Senegal|= Senegal|Senegal *Cordillera del Atlas|Atlas Mountains|Montanhas Atlas|Monti= dell'Atlante|Atlas|Atlasgebirge *Desierto del Sahara|Sahara Desert|Desert= o do Sahara|Deserto del Sahara|D=E9sert du Sahara|Sahara *Lago Chad|Lake C= had|Lago Chad|Lago Ciad|Lac Tchad|Tschadsee *Nilo|Nile|Rio Nilo|Nilo|Nil|Ni= l *Lago Victoria|Lake Victoria|Lago Vit=F3ria|Lago Vittoria|Lac Victoria|V= ictoriasee *Lago Tanganika|Lake Tanganyika|Lago Tanganyika|Lago Tanganica|L= ac Tanganyika|Tanganjikasee *Lago Malawi|Lake Malawi|Lago Malawi|Lago Mala= wi|Lac Malawi|Malawisee *Madagascar|Madagascar|Madagascar|Madagascar|Madaga= scar|Madagaskar *Canal de Mozambique|Mozambique Channel|Canal de Mo=E7ambiq= ue|Canale di Mozambico|Canal du Mozambique|Stra=DFe von Mozambique *Cabo d= e Buena Esperanza|Cape of Good Hope|Cabo da boa Esperan=E7a|Capo di Buona = Speranza|Cap de Bonne-Esp=E9rance|Kap der Guten Hoffnung *Desierto de Kalah= ari|Kalahari Desert|Deserto Kalahari|Deserto del Halahari|D=E9sert du Kala= hari|Kalahari *Desierto de Namibia|Namib Desert|Deserto de Nam=EDbia|Desert= o del Namib|D=E9sert du Namib|Namib *R=EDo Congo|Congo River|Rio Congo|Fiu= me Congo|Congo|Kongo *Golfo de Guinea|Gulf of Guinea|Golfo de Guin=E9|Golfo= di Guinea|Golfe de Guin=E9e|Golf von Guinea *R=EDo N=EDger|Niger River|Ri= o Nig=E9ria|Fiume Niger|Niger|Niger *Eurasia|Eurasia|Eur=E1sia|Eurasia|Eura= sie|Eurasien *cartograf=EDa|cartography|cartografia|cartografia|cartographi= e|Kartogra phie *Sistema de Coordenadas Terrestres|Earth Coordinate System|= Sistema de Coordenadas da Terra|Sistema di Coordinate Terrestri|Coordon=E9= es Terrestres|Koordinatensystem der Erdkugel *Polo Norte|North Pole|P=F3lo= Norte|Polo Nord|P=F4le Nord|Nordpol *C=EDrculo Polar =C1rtico|Arctic Circl= e|C=EDrculo Polar =C1rtico|Circolo Polare Artico|Cercle Polaire Arctique|N= =F6rdlicher Polarkreis *Tr=F3pico de C=E1ncer|Tropic of Cancer|Tr=F3pico de= C=E2ncer|Tropico del Cancro|Tropique du Cancer|Wendekreis des Krebses *(L= =EDnea del) Ecuador|Equator|(Linha do) Equador|Equatore|=C9quateur|=C4quat= or *Tr=F3pico de Capricornio|Tropic of Capricorn|Tr=F3pico de Capric=F3rni= o|Tropico del Capricorno|Tropique du Capricorne|Wendekreis des Steinbocks = *C=EDrculo Polar Ant=E1rtico|Antarctic Circle|C=EDrculo Polar Ant=E1rtico|= Circolo Polare Antartico|Cercle Polaire Antarctique|s=FCdlicher Polarkreis= *Polo Sur|South Pole|P=F3lo Sul|Polo Sud|P=F4le Sud|S=FCdpol *Hemisferio N= orte|Northern Hemisphere|Hemisf=E9rio Norte|Emisfero Settentrionale|H=E9mi= sph=E8re bor=E9al|n=F6rdliche Hemisph=E4re *Hemisferio Sur|Southern Hemisph= ere|Hemisf=E9rio Sul|Emisfero Meridionale|H=E9misph=E8re austral|s=FCdlich= e Hemisph=E4re *Hemisferio Occidental|Western Hemisphere|Hemisf=E9rio Ocid= ental|Emisfero Occidentale|H=E9misph=E8re Occidental|westliche Hemisph=E4r= e *Hemisferio Oriental|Eastern Hemisphere|Hemisf=E9rio Oriental|Emisfero O= rientale|H=E9misph=E8re Oriental|=F6stliche Hemisph=E4re *Sistema de ret=ED= cula|Grid System|Divis=F5es Cartogr=E1ficas|Reticolato Geografico|Division= s Cartographiques|Gradnetz *latitud|latitude|latitude|latitudine|latitude|B= reitengrade *paralelo|parallel|paralelo|parallelo|parall=E8le|Breitenkreis = *longitud|longitude|longitude|longitudine|longitude|L=E4ngengrade *meridian= o|meridian|meridiano|meridiano|m=E9ridien|Meridian *meridiano de Greenwich|= Greenwich Meridian|meridiano de Greenwich|meridiano fondamentale|m=E9ridie= n de Greenwich|Nullmeridian *Proyecciones cartogr=E1ficas|Map Projections|P= roje=E7=F5es cartogr=E1ficas|proiezioni cartografiche|projections carogra= phiques|Kartendarstellungen *Proyecci=F3n plana|Plane projection|Proje=E7= =E3o plana|Proiezione plana|Projection horizontale|Azimutalprojektion *Pro= yecci=F3n c=F3nica|Conic projection|Proje=E7=E3o c=F4nica|Proiezione conic= a|projection conique|Kegelprojektion *Proyecci=F3n cil=EDndrica|Cylindrical= projection|proje=E7=E3o cil=EDndrica|proiezione cilindrica|projection cy= lindrique|Zylinderprojektion *Proyecci=F3n interrumpida|Interrupted project= ion|Proje=E7=E3o interrompida|Proiezione interrotta|Projection interrompue= |zerlappte Projektion From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1434 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47013 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 07:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 07:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 07:03:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 07:03:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 07:03:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:02:59 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 19333 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: De l'Enciklopedio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Eduardo, Mil danki pro vua grandega laboro e brave Clar=EDn ! Kor= diale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Eduardo A. Rodi" = wrote: > > Kara samideani, > > Yen l'unesma parto dil Enc= iklopedio quan me promisis tradukar. Co > esas proxime un triimo de la tot= a chapitro pri "Tero". > > Por evitar konfundo, e konseque, erori, me sequ= is la linguo-ordino > qua aparas en la Enciklopedio ipsa, malgre ke olu di= feras del > tradicionala DEFIRS. La linguo-ordino esas: > Hispana|Angla|P= ortugala|Itala|Franca|Germana > > Per la signo "|" me separas la nomi en s= ingla linguo. Per parentezi, > me indikas vorti omisebla del nomo. Exempl= e: Onu darfas dicar en la > Hispana: "L=EDnea del Ecuador" o simple: "Ecu= ador". Do me > skribas: "(L=EDnea del) Ecuador". E per la signo "/" me sep= aras du > varianti por la sama ideo en la sama linguo. > > Forsan kelka n= omi aparas dufoye. Lo esas pro ke li esas en diferanta > dezegnuri. Me in= tencis evitar riskribar elementi iterata, ma es > posibla ke me tamen skri= bis ulo plurfoye neintence. > > Se on bezonas la datumi formala dil encikl= opedio, yen oli. La verko > nomesas en la Hispana "Diccionario visual 6 i= diomas", da Jean- Claude > Corbell e Ariane Archambault. La kopiyuro apart= enas a QA > International, 2004 (omna yuri rezervita). E la verko publikes= is (e > duras ankore publikesar) per la jurnalo Arjentina "Clar=EDn", ye = singla > mardio e venerdio. > > Se ulu trovas irga eroro, voluntez indik= ar lo a me en ta forumo. Ma > remarkez ke la enciklopedio avertas ke "kel= kafoye eventas ke plura > vorti employesas por aludar la sama realajo. En = ta kazi, on > selektabas la vorto employata maxim freque dal autori maxim = > konocata." Do forsan vi konocas ula kozo per nomo diferanta de ta qua = > aparas hike. > > Fine, se ulo ne komprenesas, voluntez indikar lo a me e= n ta forumo, > por ke me deskriptez l'imajo di qua la nomo ne komprenesas= . > > Do, yen la vorti, e Felica Yaro Nova por vi omna. > > Eduardo A. RO= DI. > > > > *Geograf=EDa|Geography|Geografia|Geografia|Geographie|Geogra= phie > *configuraci=F3n de los continentes|configuration of the > continen= ts|configura=E7=E3o dos continentes|carta dei > continenti|configuration d= es continents|Lage der Kontinente > *planisferio|planisphere|planisf=E9rio= |planisfero|planisph=E8re|Erdoberfl =E4 > che > *=C1rtico|Arctic|=C1rtico|A= rtide|Arctique|Arktis > *Am=E9rica Central|Central America|Am=E9rica Centra= l|America > Centrale|Am=E9rique centrale|Mittelamerika > *Oc=E9ano Pac=EDf= ico|Pacific Ocean|Oceano Pac=EDfico|Oceano Pacifico|Oc=E9an > Pacifique|P= azifik > *Mar Caribe|Caribbean Sea|Mar do Caribe|Mar Caribico|Mer des > An= tilles|Karibik > *Oc=E9ano Atl=E1ntico|Atlantic Ocean|Oceano Atl=E2ntico|Oc= eano > Atlantico|Oc=E9an Atlantique|Atlantik > *Mar de Groenlandia|Greenla= nd Sea|mar da Groenl=E2ndia|Mar di > Groenlandia|Mer du Groenland|Gr=F6nla= ndsee > *Mar del Norte|North Sea|Mar do Norte|Mare del Nord|Mer du > Nord|= Nordsee > *Mar Mediterr=E1neo|Mediterranean Sea|Mar Mediterr=E2neo|Mar > M= editerraneo|Mer M=E9diterran=E9e|Mittelmeer > *Mar Negro|Black Sea|Mar Negr= o|Mar Nero|Mer Noire|Schwarzes Meer > *Mar Caspio|Caspian Sea|Mar C=E1spio|= Mar Caspio|Mer > Caspienne|Kaspisches Meer > *Mar de la China Meridional|S= outh China Sea|Mar da China|Mar Cinese > Meridionale|Mer de Chine m=E9rid= ionale|S=FCdchinesisches Meer > *Oc=E9ano Glacial =C1rtico|Arctic Ocean|Oce= ano =C1rtico|Mar Glaciale > Artico|Oc=E9an Arctique|Nordpolarmeer > *Mar d= e Bering|Bering Sea|Mar de Bering|Mar di Bering|Mer de > B=E9ring|Beringse= e > *Mar Rojo|Red Sea|Mar Vermelho|Mar Rosso|Mer Rouge|Rotes Meer > *Oc=E9a= no =CDndico|Indian Ocean|Oceano =CDndico|Oceano Indiano|Oc=E9an > Indien|I= ndischer Ocean > *Ocean=EDa|Oceania|Oce=E2nia|Oceania|Oc=E9anie|Ozeanien > = *Australia|Australia|Austr=E1lia|Australia|Australie|Australien > *Golfo de= Carpentaria|Gulf of Carpentaria|Golfo da Carpentaria|Golfo > di Carpenta= ria|Golfe de Carpentarie|Carpentariagolf > *Gran Desierto de Arena|Great Sa= ndy Desert|Grande Deserto de > Areia|Gran Deserto Saabbioso|Grand D=E9sert= de Sable|Gro=DFe Sandw=FCste > *Gran Desierto Victoria|Great Victoria Dese= rt|Deserto de Grande > Vit=F3ria|Gran Deserto Vittoria|Grand D=E9sert Vict= oria|Gro=DFe > Victoriaw=FCste > *Estrecho de Bass|Bass Strait|Estreito de= Bass|Stretto di > Bass|D=E9troit de Bass|Bass-Stra=DFe > *Gran Bah=EDa Au= straliana|Great Australian Bight|Golfo Grande > Australiano|Grande Baia Au= straliana|Grande Baie australienne|Gro=DFe > Australische Bucht > *Tasmani= a|Tasmania|Tasm=E2nia|Tasmania|Tasmanie|Tasmanien > *Nueva Zelanda|New Zeal= and|Nova Zel=E2ndia|Nuova Zelanda|Nouvelle- > Z=E9lande|Neuseeland > *Mar d= e Tasmania|Tasman Sea|Mar do Tasm=E2nia|Mare di Tasmania|Mer de > Tasman|= Tasmansee > *Gran Cordillera Divisoria|Great Dividing Range|Fileira de mon= tanhas > que dividem|Grande Catena Divisoria|Cordill=E8re > Australienne|= Australische Kordilleren > *Lago Eyre Norte|Lake Eyre North|Lago Eyre|Lago = Eyre|Lac Eyre > North|Eyresee > *Mar del Coral|Coral Sea|Mar de Coral|Mar = dei Coralli|Mer de > Corail|Korallenmeer > *Gran Barrera de Arrecifes|Grea= t Barrier Reef|Recife Barreira > grande|Grande Barriera Corallina|R=E9cif = de la Grande Barri=E8re|Gro=DFes > Barrierriff > *Estrecho de Torres|Torr= es Strait|Desfiladeiro Torres|Stretto di > Torres|D=E9troit de Torres|Torr= esstra=DFe > *Pap=FAa Nueva Guinea|Papua New Guinea|Papua Nova Guin=E9|Papu= asia- Nuova > Guinea|Papouasie-Nouvelle-Guin=E9e|Papua-Neuguinea > *Melane= sia|Melanesia|Melan=E9sia|Melanesia|M=E9lan=E9sie|Melanesien > *Nueva Caled= onia|New Caledonian|Nova Caled=F4nia|Nuova > Caledonia|Nouvelle-Cal=E9doni= e|Neukaledonien > *Islas Fidji|Fiji Island|Fiji|Isole Figi|=CEles Fidji|Fid= schiinseln > *Estrecho de Cook|Cook Strait|Estreito de Cook|Stretto di > C= ook|D=E9troit de Cook|Cookstra=DFe > *Ant=E1rtida|Antarctica|Ant=E1rtida|An= tartide|Antarctique|Antarktis > *C=EDrculo polar ant=E1rtico|Antarctic Circ= le|C=EDrculo Ant=E1rtico|Circolo > Polare Antartico|cercle polaire antarc= tique|s=FCdlicher Polarkreis > *Pasaje de Drake|Drake Passage|Passagem Drak= e|Canale di Drake|D=E9troit > de Drake|Drakestra=DFe > *Mar de Weddell|We= ddell Sea|Mar de Weddell|Mare di Weddell|Mer de > Weddell|Weddellmeer > *P= en=EDnsula Ant=E1rtica|Antarctic Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula Ant=E1rtica|Pen=EDs= ola > Antartica|P=E9ninsule Antarctique|Antarktische Halbinsel > *Barrera = de hielo de Filchner|Filchner Ice Shelf|Resalto de Gelo > Filchner|Banchis= a di Filchner|Banquise de Filchner|Filchner- Schelfeis > *Tierra de Marie B= yrd|Marie Byrd Land|Territ=F3rio Marie Byrd|Terra di > Marie Byrd|Terre M= arie-Byrd|Marie-Byrd-Land > *Banquisa de hielo de Ross|Ross Ice Shelf|Resal= to de Gelo > Ross|Banchisa di Ross|Banquise de Ross|Ross-Schelfeis > *Mont= es Transant=E1rticos|Transantarctic Mountains|Montanhas > Transart=E1rtica= s|Monti Transantartici|Monts > Transantarctiques|Transantarktisches Gebirg= e > *Tierra de Wilkes|Wilkes Land|Territ=F3rio Wilkes|Terra di Wilkes|Terr= e > de Wilkes|Wilkesland > *Plataforma de hielo de Amery|Amery Ice Shelf|R= esalto de Gelo > Amery|Banchisa di Amery|Banquise d'Amery|Amery-Eisschelf = > *Tierra de la Reina Maud|Queen Maud Land|Territ=F3rio Queen Maud|Terra = > della Regina Maud|Terre de la Reine-Maud|K=F6nigin-Maud-Land > *Polo Sur|= South Pole|P=F3lo Sul|Polo Sud|P=F4le Sud|S=FCdpol > *Am=E9rica del Norte|N= orth America|Am=E9rica do Norte|America > Settentrionale|Am=E9rique du Nor= d|Nordamerika > *Estrecho de Bering|Bering Strait|Estreito de Bering|Strett= o di > Bering|D=E9troit de B=E9ring|Beringstra=DFe > *Islas Aleutianas|Ale= utian Islands|Ilhas Aleutas|Isole Aleutine|=CEles > Al=E9outiennes|Aleute= n > *Golfo de Alaska|Gulf of Alaska|Golfo de Alasca|Golfo > dell'Alaska|Go= lfe d'Alaska|Golf von Alaska > *Monta=F1as Rocosas|Rocky Mountains|montanha= s de rochas|Montagne > Rocciose|Montagnes Rocheusess|Rocky Mountains > *Gr= an Ca=F1=F3n|Grand Canyon|Grande Canh=E3o|Grand Canyon|Grand > Canyon|Gran= d Canyon > *Golfo de California|Gulf of California|Golfo de Calif=F3rnia|Go= lfo di > California|Golfe de Californie|Golf von Kalifornien > *Golfo de = M=E9xico|Gulf of Mexico|Golfo de M=E9xico|Golfo del > Messico|Golfe du M= =E9xique|Golf von Mexico > *Pen=EDnsula de Yucat=E1n|Yucatan Peninsula|Pen= =EDnsula de Yucatan|Penisola > dello Yucatan|P=E9ninsule du Yucatan|Yucat= an-Halbinsel > *Istmo de Panam=E1|Isthmus of Panama|Istmo de Panam=E1|Istmo= di > Panama|Isthme de Panama|Landenge von Panama > *Antillas|West Indies|= =CDndias Ocidentais|Indie > Occidentali|Antilles|Westindien > *R=EDo Missi= ssippi|Mississippi River|Rio Mississippi|Fiume > Mississippi|Mississippi|M= ississippi > *Montes Apalaches|Appalachian Mountains|Montanhas Apalaches|Mo= nti > Appalaachi|Appalaches|Appalachen > *Rio San Lorenzo|Sain Lawrence Ri= ver|Rio Sain Lawrence|Fiume San > Lorenzo|Saint-Laurent|Saint-Lorenz-Strom= > *Isla de Terranova|Newfoundland Island|Ilha Newfoundland|Isola di > Ter= ranova|=CEle de Terre-Neuve|Neufundland > *Grandes Lagos|Great Lakes|Grande= s Lagos|Grandi Laghi|Grands > Lacs|Gro=DFe Seen > *Isla de Baffin|Baffin I= sland|Ilha Baffin|Isola di Baffin|Terre de > Baffin|Baffinland > *Bah=EDa = de Hudson|Hudson Bay|Ba=EDa de Hudson|Baia di Hudson|Baie > d'Hudson|Hudso= n Bay > *Rio Mackenzie|Mackenzie River|Rio Mackenzie|Fiume > Mackenzie|Mac= kenzie|Mackenzie > *Mar de Beaufort|Beaufort Sea|Mar de Beaufort|Mar di Bea= ufort|Mer de > Beaufort|Beaufortsee > *Am=E9rica del Sur|South America|Am= =E9rica do Sul|America > Meridionale|Am=E9rique du Sud|S=FCdamerika > *Gol= fo de Panam=E1|Gulf of Panama|Golfo de Panam=E1|Golfo di Panama|Golfe > d= e Panama|Golf von Panama > *Cordillera de los Andes|Andes Cordillera|Cordil= heira dos > Andes|Cordigliera delle Ande|Cordill=E8re des Andes|Anden > *L= ago Titicaca|Lake Titicaca|Lago Titicaca|Lago Titicaca|Lac > Titicaca|Titi= cacasee > *Desierto de Atacama|Atacama Desert|Deserto de Atacama|Deserto di= > Atacama|D=E9sert d'Atacama|Atacama-W=FCste > *Tierra del Fuego|Tierra d= el Fuego|Terra do Fogo|Terra del > Fuoco|Terre de Feu|Feuerland > *Cabo de= Hornos|Cape Horn|Cabo de Hornos|Capo Horn|Cap Horn|Kap Horn > *Pasaje de = Drake|Drake Passage|Passagem Drake|Canale di Drake|D=E9troit > de Drake|D= rakenstra=DFe > *Islas Malvinas|Falkand Islands|Ilhas Malvinas|Isole Malvi= nas|=CElhes > Malvinas|Malvinas-Inseln > *Patagonia|Patagonia|Patag=F4nia|= Patagonia|Patagonie|Patagonien > *R=EDo Paran=E1|Paran=E1 River|Rio Paran= =E1|Fiume Paran=E0|Parana|Paran=E1 > *R=EDo Amazonas|Amazon River|Rio Amazo= nas|Rio delle > Amazone|Amazone|Amazonas > *R=EDo Orinoco|Orinoco River|Ri= o Orinoco|Fiume Orinoco|Orinoque|Orinoko > *Europa|Europe|Europa|Europa|Eu= rope|Europa > *Mar de Noruega|Norwegian Sea|Mar da Noruega|Mar di Norvegia|= Mer de > Norv=E8ge|Nordmeer > *Islandia|Iceland|Isl=E2ndia|Islanda|Island= e|Island > *Pen=EDnsula Escandinava|Scandinavian Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula > E= scandinava|Penisola Scandinava|P=E9ninsule Scandinave|Skandinavische > Ha= lbinsel > *Mar del Norte|North Sea|Mar do Norte|Mare del Nord|Mer du > Nor= d|Nordsee > *Mar de Irlanda|Irish Sea|Mar Irland=EAs|Mare d'Irlanda|Mer > = d'Irlanda|Irische See > *Canal de la Mancha|English Channel|Canal Ingl=EAs|= Canale della > Manica|Manche|=C4rmelkanal > *R=EDo V=EDstula|Vistula River= |Rio Vistula|Fiume Vistola|Vistule|Weichsel > *Alpes|Alps|Alpes|Alpi|Alpes= |Alpen > *Pen=EDnsula Ib=E9rica|Iberian Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula Ib=E9rica|Pen= isola > Iberica|P=E9ninsule Ib=E9rique|Iberische Halbinsel > *Estrecho de = Gibraltar|Strait of Gibraltar|Estreito de > Gibraltar|Stretto di Gibilterr= a|D=E9troit de Gibraltar|Stra=DFe von > Gibraltar > *Pirineos|Pyrenees|Pir= eneus|Pirenei|Pyr=E9n=E9es|Pyren=E4en > *Mar Mediterr=E1neo|Mediterranean S= ea|Mar Mediterr=E2neo|Mar > Mediterraneo|Mer M=E9diterran=E9e|Mittelmeer >= *R=EDo Danubio|Danube River|Rio Dan=FAbio|Fiume Danubio|Danube|Donau > *Ma= r Adri=E1tico|Adriatic Sea|Mar Adri=E1tico|Mar Adriatico|Mer > Adriatique|= Adria > *Pen=EDnsula de los Balcanes|Balkan Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula > Balc= =E2nica|Penisola Balcanica|P=E9ninsule des Balkans|Balkanhalbinsel > *Mar E= geo|Aegean Sea|Mar Egeu|Mare Egeo|Mer =C9g=E9e|=C4g=E4is > *Montes C=E1rpat= os|Carpathian Mountains|Montanhas Carpatian|Monti > Carpazi|Carpates|Karpa= ten > *Mar Negro|Black Sea|Mar Negro|Mar Nero|Mer Noire|Schwarzes Meer > *M= ontes Urales|Ural Mountains|Montanhas Ural|Monti Urali|Monts > Oural|Ural = > *R=EDo Volga|Volga River|Rio Volga|Fiume Volga|Volga|Wolga > *Mar de Bare= nts|Barents Sea|Mar de Barents|Mare di Barents|Mer de > Barents|Barentssee= > *Pen=EDnsula de Kola|Kola Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula de Kola|Penisola di > K= ola|Presqu'=EEle de Kola|Kola-Halbinsel > *Lago Ladoga|Lake Ladoga|Lago Lad= oga|Lago Ladoga|Lac Ladoga|Ladogasee > *Golfo de Botnia|Gulf of Bothnia|Go= lfo de B=F3tnia|Golfo di > Botnia|Golfe de Botnie|Bottnishcer Meerbusen > = *R=EDo Dni=E9per|Dnieper River|Rio Dni=E9per|Fiume Dnepr|Diepr|Dnjepr > *Ma= r B=E1ltico|Baltic Sea|Mar B=E1ltico|Mar Baltico|Mer Baltique|Ostsee > *Asi= a|Asia|=C1sia|Asia|Asie|Asien > *Mar Rojo|Red Sea|Mar Vermelho|Mar Rosso|Me= r Rouge|Rotes Meer > *Mar Negro|Black Sea|Mar Negro|Mar Nero|Mer Noire|Schw= arzes Meer > *Mar Caspio|Caspian Sea|Mar C=E1spio|Mar Caspio|Mer > Caspien= ne|Kaspisches Meer > *Mar de Aral|Aral Sea|Mar Aral|Lago di Aral|Mer d'Aral= |Aralsee > *Lago Balkal|Lake Balkal|Lago Balkal|Lago Balkal|Lac Balkal|Bal= kalsee > *Desierto de Gobi|Gobi Desert|Deserto Gobi|Deserto del Gobi|D=E9se= rt de > Gobi|W=FCste Gobi > *Pen=EDnsula de Kamchatka|Kamchatka Peninsula= |Pen=EDnsula de > Kamchatka|Pen=EDsola di Camciatca|Presqu'=EEle du Kamtc= hatka|Kamtschatka- > Halbinsel > *Mar del Jap=F3n|Sea of Japan|Mar do Jap= =E3o|Mar del Giappone|Mer du > Japon|Japanisches Meer > *Jap=F3n|Japan|Jap= =E3o|Giappone|Japon|Japan > *Pen=EDnsula de Corea|Korean Peninsula|Pen=EDns= ula da Cor=E9ia|Penisola > Coreana|Presqu'=EEle de Cor=E9e|Korea > *Mar de= China Oriental|East China Sea|Mar do Leste da China|Mar > Cinese Oriental= e|Mer de Chine Orientale|=D6stchinesisches Meer > *Filipinas|Philippines|Fi= lipinas|Filippine|Philippines|Philippinen > *Mar de China Meridional|South = China Sea|Mar do Sul da China|Mar > Cinese Meridionale|Mer de Chine M=E9ri= dionale|S=FCdchinesisches Meer > *Indonesia|Indonesia|Indon=E9sia|Indonesia= |Indonesie|Indonesien > *Bah=EDa de Bengala|Bay of Bengal|Baia de Bengal|Go= lfo del > Bengala|Golfe du Bengale|Golf von Bengalen > *Himalaya|Himalayas= |montanhas do Himalaia|Himalaya|Himalaya|Himalaja > *Golfo de Om=E1n|Gulf = of Oman|Olfo de Oman|Golfo di Oman|Golfe > d'Oman|Golf von Oman > *Mar Ar= =E1bigo|Arabian Sea|Mar Ar=E1bico|Mare Ar=E1bico|Mer > d'Oman|Arabisches M= er > *Golfo P=E9rsico|Persian Gulf|Golfo Persa|Golfo Persico|Golfe > Persi= que|Persischer Golf > *Pen=EDnsula Ar=E1biga|Arabian Peninsula|Pen=EDnsula = Arabe|Penisola > Arabica|P=E9ninsule d'Arabie|Arabische Halbinsel > *Golfo= de Ad=E9n|Gulf of Aden|Golfo de Aden|Golfo di Aden|Golfe > d'Aden|Golf vo= n Aden > *=C1frica|Africa|=C1frica|Africa|Afrique|Afrika > *R=EDo Senegal|S= enegal River|Rio Senegal|Fiume Senegal|Senegal|Senegal > *Cordillera del A= tlas|Atlas Mountains|Montanhas Atlas|Monti > dell'Atlante|Atlas|Atlasgebir= ge > *Desierto del Sahara|Sahara Desert|Deserto do Sahara|Deserto del > Sa= hara|D=E9sert du Sahara|Sahara > *Lago Chad|Lake Chad|Lago Chad|Lago Ciad|L= ac Tchad|Tschadsee > *Nilo|Nile|Rio Nilo|Nilo|Nil|Nil > *Lago Victoria|Lake= Victoria|Lago Vit=F3ria|Lago Vittoria|Lac > Victoria|Victoriasee > *Lago = Tanganika|Lake Tanganyika|Lago Tanganyika|Lago Tanganica|Lac > Tanganyika|= Tanganjikasee > *Lago Malawi|Lake Malawi|Lago Malawi|Lago Malawi|Lac Malaw= i|Malawisee > *Madagascar|Madagascar|Madagascar|Madagascar|Madagascar|Madag= askar > *Canal de Mozambique|Mozambique Channel|Canal de Mo=E7ambique|Canal= e di > Mozambico|Canal du Mozambique|Stra=DFe von Mozambique > *Cabo de B= uena Esperanza|Cape of Good Hope|Cabo da boa Esperan=E7a|Capo > di Buona = Speranza|Cap de Bonne-Esp=E9rance|Kap der Guten Hoffnung > *Desierto de Kal= ahari|Kalahari Desert|Deserto Kalahari|Deserto del > Halahari|D=E9sert du = Kalahari|Kalahari > *Desierto de Namibia|Namib Desert|Deserto de Nam=EDbia|= Deserto del > Namib|D=E9sert du Namib|Namib > *R=EDo Congo|Congo River|Rio= Congo|Fiume Congo|Congo|Kongo > *Golfo de Guinea|Gulf of Guinea|Golfo de G= uin=E9|Golfo di Guinea|Golfe > de Guin=E9e|Golf von Guinea > *R=EDo N=EDg= er|Niger River|Rio Nig=E9ria|Fiume Niger|Niger|Niger > *Eurasia|Eurasia|Eur= =E1sia|Eurasia|Eurasie|Eurasien > *cartograf=EDa|cartography|cartografia|c= artografia|cartographie|Kartogr a > phie > *Sistema de Coordenadas Terrestr= es|Earth Coordinate System|Sistema de > Coordenadas da Terra|Sistema di C= oordinate Terrestri|Coordon=E9es > Terrestres|Koordinatensystem der Erdkug= el > *Polo Norte|North Pole|P=F3lo Norte|Polo Nord|P=F4le Nord|Nordpol > *C= =EDrculo Polar =C1rtico|Arctic Circle|C=EDrculo Polar =C1rtico|Circolo > P= olare Artico|Cercle Polaire Arctique|N=F6rdlicher Polarkreis > *Tr=F3pico d= e C=E1ncer|Tropic of Cancer|Tr=F3pico de C=E2ncer|Tropico del > Cancro|Tro= pique du Cancer|Wendekreis des Krebses > *(L=EDnea del) Ecuador|Equator|(Li= nha do) > Equador|Equatore|=C9quateur|=C4quator > *Tr=F3pico de Capricorni= o|Tropic of Capricorn|Tr=F3pico de > Capric=F3rnio|Tropico del Capricorno|= Tropique du Capricorne|Wendekreis > des Steinbocks > *C=EDrculo Polar Ant= =E1rtico|Antarctic Circle|C=EDrculo Polar > Ant=E1rtico|Circolo Polare Ant= artico|Cercle Polaire > Antarctique|s=FCdlicher Polarkreis > *Polo Sur|Sou= th Pole|P=F3lo Sul|Polo Sud|P=F4le Sud|S=FCdpol > *Hemisferio Norte|Norther= n Hemisphere|Hemisf=E9rio Norte|Emisfero > Settentrionale|H=E9misph=E8re b= or=E9al|n=F6rdliche Hemisph=E4re > *Hemisferio Sur|Southern Hemisphere|Hemi= sf=E9rio Sul|Emisfero > Meridionale|H=E9misph=E8re austral|s=FCdliche Hemi= sph=E4re > *Hemisferio Occidental|Western Hemisphere|Hemisf=E9rio > Ociden= tal|Emisfero Occidentale|H=E9misph=E8re Occidental|westliche > Hemisph=E4r= e > *Hemisferio Oriental|Eastern Hemisphere|Hemisf=E9rio Oriental|Emisfero= > Orientale|H=E9misph=E8re Oriental|=F6stliche Hemisph=E4re > *Sistema de= ret=EDcula|Grid System|Divis=F5es Cartogr=E1ficas|Reticolato > Geografico= |Divisions Cartographiques|Gradnetz > *latitud|latitude|latitude|latitudine= |latitude|Breitengrade > *paralelo|parallel|paralelo|parallelo|parall=E8le|= Breitenkreis > *longitud|longitude|longitude|longitudine|longitude|L=E4ngen= grade > *meridiano|meridian|meridiano|meridiano|m=E9ridien|Meridian > *meri= diano de Greenwich|Greenwich Meridian|meridiano de > Greenwich|meridiano f= ondamentale|m=E9ridien de Greenwich|Nullmeridian > *Proyecciones cartogr=E1= ficas|Map Projections|Proje=E7=F5es > cartogr=E1ficas|proiezioni cartograf= iche|projections > carographiques|Kartendarstellungen > *Proyecci=F3n plan= a|Plane projection|Proje=E7=E3o plana|Proiezione > plana|Projection horizo= ntale|Azimutalprojektion > *Proyecci=F3n c=F3nica|Conic projection|Proje=E7= =E3o c=F4nica|Proiezione > conica|projection conique|Kegelprojektion > *Pr= oyecci=F3n cil=EDndrica|Cylindrical projection|proje=E7=E3o > cil=EDndrica= |proiezione cilindrica|projection > cylindrique|Zylinderprojektion > *Proy= ecci=F3n interrumpida|Interrupted projection|Proje=E7=E3o > interrompida|P= roiezione interrotta|Projection interrompue|zerlappte > Projektion From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1435 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33871 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 17:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 17:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 17:26:35 -0000 Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with SMTP id B21C66537D; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:26:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005701c4e914$8d929c70$6402a8c0@SHEILA> To: , , , , "Ido-listo" , , , , , , Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:26:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: "Vaganto" Subject: Progreso dijitala 283 (mayo - agosto 1988) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 283 (mayo - agosto 1988) - 1.433= kB Kontenajo: - La Ido-movado chanjas Prezidero; Homajo a Henry Jacob -= R=F6hnisch, Hellmut - Eratosthenes o quale mezurar la tero sen livar = sua urbo - Janssens, Gerard - Ludi e distraktili; Altra kazo di renvers= ebleso - G.S.R. - Ka raciono punisesas? Pledo por saneso-asekuro - N= eussner, Alfred (Traduko - originala autoro: Helmut Creuz) - Ka sercho di = sekureso... o sercho di profito - Lang, Tom & Moureaux, Roger (Traduko) - = La morto di amiko, en memoro di Paul Meylan - Europana problemi = - komuneso sen komuna linguo - Bol, Jacqques - Idal metodo kom modelo - Jus= te, Andreas - Quale olim Orpheus kantis - Neussner, Heidi (Traduko -= originala autoro: Reinhard Mey) Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di P= rogreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenh= oorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald = Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wi= kipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ = - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Karl Marx : Die Religion ist der Seufzer der bed= r=E4ngten Kreatur, das Gem=FCt einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie der Geist geis= tloser Zust=E4nde ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volkes. --- Outgoing ma= il is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.gr= isoft.com). Version: 6.0.820 / Virus Database: 558 - Release Date: 20-12-20= 04 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1436 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93572 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2004 19:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2004 19:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2004 19:07:53 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FEB420D; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:07:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41D1AF08.5050300@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:07:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 273 (januaro - aprilo 1985) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 273 (januaro - aprilo 1985) - 1.478 kB (Notez ke l' unesma pagino di la revuo dicas ne-korekte 'januaro - aprilo 1984' ) Kontenajo: - Pri la penso di Couturat - Juste, Andreas - Del vivo di van Gogh sejornadi en Belgia - Bol, Marcelle - Voyajanta radiki - Zonderland, J - Linguo e skribo en Japonia - Enigmati solvita - Sajeso di almanaki - Akwiya, R - Qua linguo vu uzas? - Devota mediko (pri la vivo di Leon Neuens) - Ritrovo pos 25 yari - Meylan, Paul Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl http://io.wikipedia.org/ - Ido-Wikipedio http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ido-wikipedio/ - Ido-Wikipedio forumo Karl Marx : Die Religion ist der Seufzer der bedr�ngten Kreatur, das Gem�t einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie der Geist geistloser Zust�nde ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volkes. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.820 / Virus Database: 558 - Release Date: 20-12-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1437 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32923 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2004 20:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Dec 2004 20:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web13302.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.175.38) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Dec 2004 20:01:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 7632 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Dec 2004 20:01:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20041230200143.7630.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.58.35.107] by web13302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:01:43 CET Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:01:43 +0100 (CET) To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com, idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com, ido-linguo@yahoogroups.com, francidol@groupesyahoo.ca, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.136.175.38 From: Partaka Subject: Felica Nova Yaro! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Me deziras a vi omna ed ad Ido ipsa, maxim felica e prosperoza Nova Yaro 2005! Kurajo ed adavane, Idistaro! De Barcelona kun amo... P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1438 Return-Path: X-Sender: rbc@avenue.me.uk X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2196 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2005 22:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2005 22:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2005 22:54:40 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.187.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.187] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1Cks8t-000Prg-14; Sat, 01 Jan 2005 22:54:39 +0000 To: Idolisto , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 22:57:46 GMT Message-ID: <200511225746.171644@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 X-eGroups-From: Robert From: Robert Subject: Vortaro Ido-Polona X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=201240500 Regardante plu tranquile la vortaro Ido-Polona, me trovas ke per hasto me n= e bone aranjis la ordino dil vorti. Exemple, "ceneyo" esis avan "ceno" vice= dop ol. Me trovis anke ke un vorto aparis dufoye. Anke la adverbo "retro"= mustas esar "retroe" nam segun KGD, "retro" (kom adverbo) esas eroro. Hod= ie me laboris tra la listo, plubonigis ol, e pozis ol ye la sama loko (user= s.aol.com/carnagrb/ido/idopol.htm). Esas 4809 vorti ed afixi en la listo. = Kompreneble to ne esas kompleta Idala vortaro, ma ni esperas ke ol inkluzas= la vorti qui esas plu ofte uzata, omisante vorti plu historiala, teknikala= o ciencala. Se irgu volas havar ol, me povas sendar a lu la sama listo di= vorti Idala, sen la Polona tradukuri, tale ke lu povas adjuntar tradukuri = por altra linguo. Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1439 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33130 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2005 14:04:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2005 14:04:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2005 14:04:01 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Jan 2005 06:04:01 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.66 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:03:02 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 14:03:02 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2005 14:04:01.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9418F10:01C4F0D3] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.39 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Chefurbi e landonomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Me volas ke la pagino che Wikipedio 'Chefurbi' http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chefurbi divenez la definitiva tabelo di nomi di Chefurbi e Landi, en la formato: Chefurbo, Lando Tale me pregas vi, kontrolar la nuna, mi-kompleta listo. Komparez ex. la pagino 'Afrika' http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika ed altra kontinento-pagini. Exemple, me uzas 'Central Afrikana Republiko' ube l'autoro di 'Afrika' uzas 'Centrafrika'. Ni devas selektar e normaligar tala nomi. Predanko! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1440 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77692 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2005 21:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2005 21:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2005 21:32:30 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.187.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.187] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1Cn1if-000IlU-JP; Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:32:29 +0000 To: Idolisto , Linguolisto , ULI-Ido X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 21:34:25 GMT Message-ID: <200517213425.135026@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Mesaji ne recevita da Robert X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Hiere me saveskis ke dum plura dii, forsan un semano, esis problemo sendar = mesaji a me, nam Yahoo informis me pri to, e me ya recevis tre poka mesaji = del forumi Idala. Do, parte pro to, me ankorfoye chanjis mea adreso. Me ne= volas donar la nova adreso en publika forumi. Tamen, se ulu ne sucesis sen= dar mesajo a me, voluntez ri-probar o skribez al forumo e me respondos priv= ate. Danko. Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1441 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29558 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 05:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 05:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 05:55:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 05:55:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2005 05:55:23 -0000 Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 05:55:19 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1533 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Me jus recevis la numero 332 dil revuo "Progreso". E me lektis l'interesanta artiklo da Richard Stevenson "Vorti por nuanci en Ido". Ibe, il expresas sua opiniono pri plura neologismi en Ido. De li, me aparte interesesis pri un: *gerar. *Gerar (e ne *werar, qua esas desfacile pronuncebla da kelka homi, segun Richard Stevenson) esas "portar vestaro", t.e.: "to wear" en l'Angla. Nu, me questionas me ka ni ya bezonas vorto aparta por ta signifiko en Ido. La Hispana ne havas aparta vorto. Ni uzas diferanta vorti vicee. Un de ti esas nia vorto "H: usar", to esas "Ido: uzar". E me questionas me ka ta vorto ne esus anke apta por Ido: -Me sempre "uzas" kravato en mea laboreyo. -Qua kolori on "uzos" tavintre? -Ne "uzez" ta shui. Li esas desneta. (Takaze, anke: "Ne metez...", se l'adresato esas ankore senshua.) Se me ne eroras, "uzar" signifikas utiligar (t.e.: "igar utila") por ula skopo. Generale, se la skopo ne sugestesas onu devas konkluzar ke ol esas la maxim evidenta: "Ka me darfas uzar vua krayono?" (Nedicinde: "por skribar") "Me uzis l'eskalieri (por acensar o decensar, segun la kuntexto) pro ke l'elevatoro ne funcionis". Do, kad onu ne povas simile "uzar" vesti por vestizar su, qua esas lia maxim evidenta skopo. Kompreneble, me ne esas Angle-parolanto denaska, e do me ne savas ka Angle-parolanti fakte sentas diferante pri "to wear" e "to use", e li perceptas granda difero, qua igas ye neapta por Ido l'uzado di olca vice olta. Vi omna standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1442 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48960 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 16:07:19 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A001E2; Sat, 8 Jan 2005 17:07:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41E00537.7090004@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 17:07:19 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: Vaganto Subject: Adres-chanjo reprezentero norvegiana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Me recevis adres-chanjo de nia landala reprezentero en Norvegia: Kai Salvesen Olav M. Troviks vei 12 H1016 0864 OSLO NORVEGIA Me aktualigis la reprezentero-listo quan vu povas trovar ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/uli/reprezenteri.html Ankore existas kelka pagini interretala kun anciena e ne plu korekta listo di reprezenteri dil ULI. Me pregas la personi qua mantenas ca pagini, remplasar l' anciena informo kun l' aktuala informo o mem plu bone, facar kuplo a mea listo por ke sempre la maxim aktuala informo esas montrata. Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Sekretario dil ULI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1443 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48887 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2005 23:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2005 23:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.187) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2005 23:43:19 -0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050108234318.KXYF18126.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:43:18 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050108234318.FQLI29485.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:43:18 +1300 To: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:43:18 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050108234318.FQLI29485.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.187 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar Eduardo Por anglaparolanti, la vorti: portar, *gerar ed uzar havas tre= diferanta senci. Forsan per Ido on deziras dicernar ta senci. Exemple: Po= rtar (A: carry) =3D transportar de un loko ad altra: Do: La viro portas = la televiziono aden la domo. L=92automobilo portas sis voyaganti. = La choseo portas 10 000 automobili po dio. *Gerar (A: to wear) =3D = havar sur la korpo. Do: El *geras somero-robo en la kolda vetero. = El *geras perlo-koliaro. Il *geras horlojeto sur la dextra brakio= . Uzar (A: to use) =3D utiligar por certena skopo. Do: El uzas padelo = por preparar la nutrajo. Il uzas segilo por tranchar la ligno. = Il uzas shuo quale martelo! Ta tribuo uzas elefanti por ektirar= arbori. Interesante la Latina =93gero=94 =3D me portas o me *geras o me a= dportas e sendubite la Romana lingui (Franca, Hispana, Portugala ed Itala) = ne sempre sentas bezono dicernar la diversa senci. Amikale, Richard Steve= nson. > > From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" > Date: 2005/01/= 08 Sat PM 06:55:19 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [= linguo] *Gerar > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed= ] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1444 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92957 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 00:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 00:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 00:05:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 00:05:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 00:05:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 00:05:12 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050108234318.FQLI29485.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1473 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.47 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Franca 'g=E9rer' =3D Angla 'manage', 'run' (newspaper, hotel) ! *gerar e= 'g=E9rer' =3D faux amis (words which look deceptively alike) Amikale, Ja= cques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > Kar = Eduardo > Por anglaparolanti, la vorti: portar, *gerar ed uzar havas tre = diferanta senci. Forsan per Ido on deziras dicernar ta senci. Exemple: > = Portar (A: carry) =3D transportar de un loko ad altra: > Do: La viro por= tas la televiziono aden la domo. > L'automobilo portas sis voyaganti= . > La choseo portas 10 000 automobili po dio. > > *Gerar (A: to = wear) =3D havar sur la korpo. > Do: El *geras somero-robo en la kolda v= etero. > El *geras perlo-koliaro. > Il *geras horlojeto sur = la dextra brakio. > > Uzar (A: to use) =3D utiligar por certena skopo. > D= o: El uzas padelo por preparar la nutrajo. > Il uzas segilo por= tranchar la ligno. > Il uzas shuo quale martelo! > Ta trib= uo uzas elefanti por ektirar arbori. > > Interesante la Latina "gero" =3D = me portas o me *geras o me adportas e sendubite la Romana lingui (Franca, = Hispana, Portugala ed Itala) ne sempre sentas bezono dicernar la diversa s= enci. > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > > > > From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" <= eduarodi@h...> > > Date: 2005/01/08 Sat PM 06:55:19 GMT+13:00 > > To: lingu= olisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [linguo] *Gerar > > > > > > > [Non-= text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1445 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19100 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 06:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 06:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.147) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 06:37:52 -0000 Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050109063751.EWOI23939.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:37:51 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.135] by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050109063751.AXU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:37:51 +1300 To: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:37:51 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050109063751.AXU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.147 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Jacques, Quankam F: gerer ed Ido: *gerar. semblas fals amiki, segun pronunco, F: gerer similesas Ido jerar kun la sama senco. Konseque,fals amiki per aparajo, ma diferanta per pronunco. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "jacquesdehe" > Date: 2005/01/09 Sun PM 01:05:12 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1446 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62539 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 06:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 06:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 06:51:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 06:51:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.117] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 06:51:12 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 06:51:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050108234318.FQLI29485.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2299 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Richard, Me komprenas la difero, ma me sentas ke "uzar" esas fakte tante generala, ke olu mem inkluzas la ideo di "*gerar". Quon vu sentus, kom Angle-parolanto denaska, se vu audus "He used a tie"? Ka vu ne quik komprenus la ideo? To esas sempre ke la frazo ne finus per "... to hang her". Semblas a me ke la *gero esas ulaspeca uzo di vesti, por la skopo naturala di vestizar su. "Uzar vesti" (sen indiko di diferanta skopo) sugestas a me "*gerar li", quale "uzar certena vorto" sugestas a me "parolar". Me insistas: se onu uzas vesto por irg altra skopo kam por metar li, onu explicite indikas ta skopo diferanta, quale en vua frazo "Il uzas shuo quale martelo!", ma to eventas sempre pri la vorto "uzar". Se on uzas telefonilo por telefonar, on povas simple dicar: "Me uzis telefonilo." Ma se on uzas ol por mortigar insekto, onu expresas ta skopo diferanta: "Me uzis telefonilo por mortigar insekto" o "Me mortigis insekto per telefonilo." To esas ne regulo quan me jus inventis, ma principo qua (segun me kredas) uzesas naturale. Irgakaze, me ne demandas ne uzar la vorto "*gerar". Me nur questionas kad olu esas necesa, e kad olu ne povus konfundar la populi qui ne havas du vorti aparta por la Angla "to wear" e "to use". Standez bone, Eduardo A. RODI. > Kar Eduardo > Por anglaparolanti, la vorti: portar, *gerar ed uzar havas tre diferanta senci. Forsan per Ido on deziras dicernar ta senci. Exemple: > Portar (A: carry) = transportar de un loko ad altra: > Do: La viro portas la televiziono aden la domo. > L'automobilo portas sis voyaganti. > La choseo portas 10 000 automobili po dio. > > *Gerar (A: to wear) = havar sur la korpo. > Do: El *geras somero-robo en la kolda vetero. > El *geras perlo-koliaro. > Il *geras horlojeto sur la dextra brakio. > > Uzar (A: to use) = utiligar por certena skopo. > Do: El uzas padelo por preparar la nutrajo. > Il uzas segilo por tranchar la ligno. > Il uzas shuo quale martelo! > Ta tribuo uzas elefanti por ektirar arbori. > > Interesante la Latina "gero" = me portas o me *geras o me adportas e sendubite la Romana lingui (Franca, Hispana, Portugala ed Itala) ne sempre sentas bezono dicernar la diversa senci. > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1447 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86111 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 07:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 07:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 07:18:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 07:18:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.147] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 07:18:19 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 07:18:21 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050109063751.AXU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 784 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.38 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Richard, kara Allblack, * Ido es multe plu skribata e lektata kam parolata ed audata. Do me kredas ke falsa amiki por l'okulo esas ankore plu importanta ed evitinda kam falsa amiki por l'orelo. * Antipode ma sincere kordiale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > Kara Jacques, > Quankam F: gerer ed Ido: *gerar. semblas fals amiki, > segun pronunco, F: gerer similesas Ido jerar kun la sama > senco. Konseque,fals amiki per aparajo, ma diferanta > per pronunco. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > > > From: "jacquesdehe" > > Date: 2005/01/09 Sun PM 01:05:12 GMT+13:00 > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1448 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76871 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 10:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 10:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 10:06:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 02:06:03 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.68 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Jan 2005 10:05:55 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 10:05:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jan 2005 10:06:03.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[D39A50C0:01C4F632] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.40 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] Nomi en fiktivaji X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Eduardo Me questionis me lo sama recente che Wikipedio, ube me volis referar la famoza explorero qua, en la angla, nomesas "Christopher Columbus". Fine me trovis, ke ulu decidis pri la idala formo "Kristoforo Kolumbo". Certena nomi havas normala formi en Ido, ex. Petro, Johano. Ma segun me, min frequa nomi skribesez segun la lokala espelo, ex. James, Vladimir (quale urbo-nomi). Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1449 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84081 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 10:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 10:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.21) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 10:16:55 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20050109101601.OOJC1537.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:16:01 +0100 Message-ID: <002201c4f633$fd430790$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 11:14:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.21 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Eduaro A. Rodi, Jacques Dehe, Me konkordas kun Richard ke ni bezonas vorto quala "gerar". Ne es tala ke en la Nederlandana ni havas specala vorto, ma fakte pro la savo dil Angla kom duesma linguo en Nederlando me savas olua specifika signifiko. Ni, Nederlandane, sempre dicas: "dragen" (literale: portar), do ni anke, quale Hispan-linguani, uzas un vorto kun plura signifiki. Me pensas ke esos bona se ni por diferanta signifiki havez altra vorti, por probar mantenar la principo di Ido: un vorto - un signifiko, tam akurate kam posible. Ke vorto por havar vesti an, sur, trans, la korpo indijesas, kelkafoye lektesas en texti Idala, ube me plurafoye renkontris la desfacileta kompozuro 'surhavar'. "Uzar" sonas en mea oreli e perceptesas en mea Nederlandana mento preske nur kom ago por facar ulo, quale vu ipsa ja skribis: "el uzis kravato por pendar (su / il, edc)". Do, kom utensilo. La Nederlandana 'portar' donas l' impreso ke on ne "geras" la vesti, ma portas oli en la manui. "Gerar" ne esus l' unika vorto por indikar nuanco di signifiko, por Nederlandani anke es konfundigiva la difero inter 'kom' e 'quale', 'spektar' e 'regardar' ed altra exempli, ma qui tamen havas specifika signifiki. Same kam me lernis uzar "to wear" en l' Angla, same me lernas uzar altra vorti en Ido por expresar signifiko-nuanco. Tamen, me joyas ke vu es kontre nova/altra vorto por "gerar", nam me pensas ke es bona ke ni ne kreez superflua vorti. Altralatere, me pensas ke se existas vorti kun specifika signifiko, ed oli ne uzesus praktike, ne domajas la vortaro ke oli existas. Existas abundanta vorti qui deskriptas specifika signifiko, ma tamen ne uzesas praktike. Oli richigas la vortaro ed adminime donas la posibleso eskapar repeto di sama vorti, per uzar sinonimi. Irgamaniere, es bona restar diskutanta pri to. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html > Kara Richard, > > Me komprenas la difero, ma me sentas ke "uzar" esas fakte tante > generala, ke olu mem inkluzas la ideo di "*gerar". Quon vu sentus, > kom Angle-parolanto denaska, se vu audus "He used a tie"? Ka vu ne > quik komprenus la ideo? To esas sempre ke la frazo ne finus per "... > to hang her". Semblas a me ke la *gero esas ulaspeca uzo di vesti, > por la skopo naturala di vestizar su. "Uzar vesti" (sen indiko di > diferanta skopo) sugestas a me "*gerar li", quale "uzar certena > vorto" sugestas a me "parolar". > > Me insistas: se onu uzas vesto por irg altra skopo kam por metar li, > onu explicite indikas ta skopo diferanta, quale en vua frazo "Il uzas > shuo quale martelo!", ma to eventas sempre pri la vorto "uzar". Se on > uzas telefonilo por telefonar, on povas simple dicar: "Me uzis > telefonilo." Ma se on uzas ol por mortigar insekto, onu expresas ta > skopo diferanta: "Me uzis telefonilo por mortigar insekto" o "Me > mortigis insekto per telefonilo." To esas ne regulo quan me jus > inventis, ma principo qua (segun me kredas) uzesas naturale. > > Irgakaze, me ne demandas ne uzar la vorto "*gerar". Me nur questionas > kad olu esas necesa, e kad olu ne povus konfundar la populi qui ne > havas du vorti aparta por la Angla "to wear" e "to use". > > Standez bone, > > Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1450 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59327 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 11:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 11:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 11:56:54 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 3608E30CBA for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2005 09:56:43 -0200 (BRDT) Message-ID: <005201c4f642$47b168e0$1b12070a@user> To: References: Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 09:56:40 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 200.196.28.8 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Kara Eduardo, Me nur volas memorigar anke ...."metar"...,segun Dyer: to put on,don (clothing, ornaments). Metar frako: to put on a dress coat; meto, donning, dressing;metebla: wearable, which can be put on. Me ne ja recevis Progreso 332 e do me ne konocas l�artiklo da Richard Stevenson. Ka "metar" ne plu uzesas? Amikala saluti, Herder. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" To: Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 3:55 AM Subject: [linguo] *Gerar > > > Kara samideani, > > Me jus recevis la numero 332 dil revuo "Progreso". E me lektis > l'interesanta artiklo da Richard Stevenson "Vorti por nuanci en Ido". > Ibe, il expresas sua opiniono pri plura neologismi en Ido. De li, me > aparte interesesis pri un: *gerar. > > *Gerar (e ne *werar, qua esas desfacile pronuncebla da kelka homi, > segun Richard Stevenson) esas "portar vestaro", t.e.: "to wear" en > l'Angla. Nu, me questionas me ka ni ya bezonas vorto aparta por ta > signifiko en Ido. > > La Hispana ne havas aparta vorto. Ni uzas diferanta vorti vicee. Un > de ti esas nia vorto "H: usar", to esas "Ido: uzar". E me questionas > me ka ta vorto ne esus anke apta por Ido: > > -Me sempre "uzas" kravato en mea laboreyo. > > -Qua kolori on "uzos" tavintre? > > -Ne "uzez" ta shui. Li esas desneta. (Takaze, anke: "Ne metez...", se > l'adresato esas ankore senshua.) > > Se me ne eroras, "uzar" signifikas utiligar (t.e.: "igar utila") por > ula skopo. Generale, se la skopo ne sugestesas onu devas konkluzar ke > ol esas la maxim evidenta: > > "Ka me darfas uzar vua krayono?" (Nedicinde: "por skribar") > > "Me uzis l'eskalieri (por acensar o decensar, segun la kuntexto) pro > ke l'elevatoro ne funcionis". > > Do, kad onu ne povas simile "uzar" vesti por vestizar su, qua esas > lia maxim evidenta skopo. > > Kompreneble, me ne esas Angle-parolanto denaska, e do me ne savas ka > Angle-parolanti fakte sentas diferante pri "to wear" e "to use", e li > perceptas granda difero, qua igas ye neapta por Ido l'uzado di olca > vice olta. > > Vi omna standez bone. > > Eduardo A. RODI. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1451 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20190 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2005 13:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2005 13:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2005 13:23:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 13:23:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.121] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2005 13:23:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:23:26 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050109063751.AXU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 689 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.20 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Richard, *ger.ar (have on) A: wear F: porter G: tragen H: llevar I: portare R: nosit' E: surporti *ger.ar semblas poke naturala ! Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > Kara Jacques, > Quankam F: gerer ed Ido: *gerar. semblas fals amiki, > segun pronunco, F: gerer similesas Ido jerar kun la sama > senco. Konseque,fals amiki per aparajo, ma diferanta > per pronunco. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > > > From: "jacquesdehe" > > Date: 2005/01/09 Sun PM 01:05:12 GMT+13:00 > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [linguo] *Gerar > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1452 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90243 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2005 04:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2005 04:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2005 04:27:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2005 04:27:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.253] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2005 04:27:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:27:17 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002201c4f633$fd430790$acef5dd5@azalia> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1229 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Vi konvinkis me ke penvaloras havar la vorto "*gerar". La= richeso di irga linguo es mezurebla (e mezurinda) per lua kapableso expre= sar nuanci per poka e simpla vorti, do "*gerar" esez bonvenanta, quale l'= opozi inter "spektar" e "regardar" o "kom" e "quale", mankanta en kelka li= ngui. E forsan (nur forsan), onu povus ANKE permisar l'uzado alternativa d= i "uzar", nur kaze ke, quale skribas Hans, ni volas evitar la repeto. O me= m "metar" (ofte, en tempi antea): "Me *geris nova shui" =3D "Me metabis no= va shui". Nun permisez a me tri noti. Me ne esas (od esis) kontre "*gerar= " o vorto similsenca. Me nur questionis me kad tala vorto necesesas. E me = komprenas nun ke yes. Segun mea savo, "llevar" (Ido: portar) esas tre rare= uzata kom *gerar, adminime nuntempe, ed en Arjentinia. Anke por ni, "llev= ar" sugestas l'ideo transportar de un loko ad altra. Ni uzas "usar" o "te= ner puesto" (vortope: havar pozita). Fine, la vorto latina "gero" ne tote = perdesis en la Hispana. Ni retenas olu ankore en la vorto "g=E9nero", qua = ultre "genro gramatikala" e "genero (?) literaturala", anke uzesas por ind= ikar peco di telo, segun mea maxim mikra saveto pri tal aferi. Vi omna st= andez bone, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1453 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92408 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 02:05:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 02:05:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nash.numericable.net) (80.236.3.115) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 02:05:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 25170 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 02:05:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by nash.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 11 Jan 2005 02:05:01 -0000 Message-ID: <007401c4f782$ac90dac0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <002201c4f633$fd430790$acef5dd5@azalia> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 03:10:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.115 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Hans, Segun la KGD : Kom = D. als (identifizierend); F. en qualitй de, en tant que : Kom Kristano me devas pardonar a mea enemiki, quale la Kristo pardonis al sui. Ma kom homo e mem kom Kristano, me ne obligesas agar a l'enemiki tale kam me agas al amiki. — On aceptis ilu quale se lu venabus kom rejo, e tamen il venis inkognite, ne kom statestro, ma kom privato (21). Quale (de quala) = en quala maniero? o : en la maniero di… (24). (21) Kom implikas, ke on esas reale to quon dicas la vorto sequanta l'adverbo : Kom Kristano, on esas Kristano : kom homo, on esas homo; kom rejo, on esas rejo; kom statestro, on esas statestro; kom privato, on esas privato. — Quale implikas nur simileso : quale Kristano = simile a Kristano; quale homo = simile a homo; quale rejo = simile a rejo; quale statestro = simile a statestro; quale privato = simile a privato. Konseque : uzez « quale », se vu povas remplasigar per « simile a… »; uzez « kom » in la cetera kazi. (24) Ye kom ni expozis la granda difero existanta inter lu e quale. (Videz kom en la adverbi di maniero, e noto 21.) Do semblas a me ke "quala " esis mal uzata en vua sequanta frazo e ke "kom" o "quale" esus preferinda. > Me konkordas kun Richard ke ni bezonas vorto quala "gerar". Me konkordas kun vu ke esos bona probar mantenar la principo di Ido: un vorto - un signifiko, tam akurate kam posible. Konseque la sinonimi qui richigas la vortaro di naturala lingui ne es segun me dezirinda por artificala helplinguo. Do yen hike mea opiniono pri l'artiklo di R. A.Stevenson en Progreso 332 : Il skribis juste ke Ido ne es matrolinguo ma jus helpolinguo e ke konseque l'existanta vortaro plus la afixi e kompozita vorti povas expresar irga senco sive por ordina uzado o por literaturo, ma tamen il propozas kurioze tri nova vorti: - *bebeo. Tre yuna e mikra infanto - *gerar. ( L : gero). Portar vestaro - *kindi. Homyuni sen genro. *gerar ne es GAPHIR-ala vorto, do segun me ol ne esas aceptebla. Pro quo *kindi kande existas pueri ? Kad *bebeo esus la sinonimi di alaktato ( F: nourrisson) ? Alaktato semblas a me tre leda e ne evidenta, do me preferus *bebeo od altra vorto. Saluti amikala, Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "H. Stuifbergen" À : Envoyé : dimanche 9 janvier 2005 11:14 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar > > Kara Eduaro A. Rodi, Jacques Dehe, > > Me konkordas kun Richard ke ni bezonas vorto quala "gerar". Ne es tala ke en > la Nederlandana ni havas specala vorto, ma fakte pro la savo dil Angla kom > duesma linguo en Nederlando me savas olua specifika signifiko. Ni, > Nederlandane, sempre dicas: "dragen" (literale: portar), do ni anke, quale > Hispan-linguani, uzas un vorto kun plura signifiki. > > Me pensas ke esos bona se ni por diferanta signifiki havez altra vorti, por > probar mantenar la principo di Ido: un vorto - un signifiko, tam akurate kam > posible. > > Ke vorto por havar vesti an, sur, trans, la korpo indijesas, kelkafoye > lektesas en texti Idala, ube me plurafoye renkontris la desfacileta > kompozuro 'surhavar'. > > "Uzar" sonas en mea oreli e perceptesas en mea Nederlandana mento preske nur > kom ago por facar ulo, quale vu ipsa ja skribis: "el uzis kravato por pendar > (su / il, edc)". Do, kom utensilo. > > La Nederlandana 'portar' donas l' impreso ke on ne "geras" la vesti, ma > portas oli en la manui. > > "Gerar" ne esus l' unika vorto por indikar nuanco di signifiko, por > Nederlandani anke es konfundigiva la difero inter 'kom' e 'quale', 'spektar' > e 'regardar' ed altra exempli, ma qui tamen havas specifika signifiki. Same > kam me lernis uzar "to wear" en l' Angla, same me lernas uzar altra vorti en > Ido por expresar signifiko-nuanco. > > Tamen, me joyas ke vu es kontre nova/altra vorto por "gerar", nam me pensas > ke es bona ke ni ne kreez superflua vorti. Altralatere, me pensas ke se > existas vorti kun specifika signifiko, ed oli ne uzesus praktike, ne domajas > la vortaro ke oli existas. Existas abundanta vorti qui deskriptas specifika > signifiko, ma tamen ne uzesas praktike. Oli richigas la vortaro ed adminime > donas la posibleso eskapar repeto di sama vorti, per uzar sinonimi. > > Irgamaniere, es bona restar diskutanta pri to. > > Saluti amikala, > > Hans St. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1454 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77669 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 03:58:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 03:58:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.119) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 03:58:41 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050111035840.PDOZ1639.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:58:40 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050111035840.XCY16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:58:40 +1300 To: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:58:40 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050111035840.XCY16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.119 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Hans, Eduardo, Herder e Jacques, Me remarkis ke en la dicionario da P= esch es la sugestita vorto *werar =3D havar sur la korpo. Ta vorto similes= as l=92angla =93to wear=94, ma la litero =93w=94 kreas problemi en diversa = lingui. En germana, w =3D v; en rusa ed Esperanto =93w=94 ne existas, ed en= romana lingui =93w=94 es rara; (en Mexico la hispana skribas e pronuncas = =93w=94 quale =93hu=94, do Huasteca es =93Wasteka=94). L=92angla pronunco d= i =93w=94 quale =93u=94 probable naskigis en anciena Germania, e plu tarde = =93w=94 divenis =93g=94. p.e. l=92anciena germana =93werra=94 (milito) pro= duktis =94guerre=94 en franca. Me sugestas *gerar de la latina, quankam evi= dente *gerar havas =93fals amiko=94, =93gerer=94 en franca. =93Metar =93 e= s apta ma signifikas movado. Ido mankas vorto signifikar stando t.e. la ko= zo sur la korpo pos on metas ol. (Altra vorti quale =93portar=94 ed =93uzar= =94 havas plura senci). Tamen me konkordas, Ido rare bezonas nova radiki, o= l ja havas ampla vortaro ed utila afixi. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > = > From: "H. Stuifbergen" > Date: 2005/01/09 Sun PM 11:= 14:22 GMT+13:00 > To: > Subject: Re: [linguo]= Re: *Gerar > > = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1455 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75552 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 05:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 05:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 05:46:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 05:45:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.114] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 05:45:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 05:45:43 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050111035840.XCY16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 811 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Richard, permisez a me mikra korektigeto ne tro importanta: > (en Me= xico la hispana skribas e pronuncas "w" quale "hu", do Huasteca es "Waste= ka"). Plu exakte, ube Hispane-parolanti omnaloke, skribas "hu" + vokalo, n= i sempre pronuncas /w/. Ne obliviez ke la H Hispana ne pronuncesas, do de= "Huasteca" nur restas pronuncenda "Uasteka". Ma la vokali U ed I ante alt= ra vokalo sempre divenas la semi-vokali W ed Y, ecepte se tonika: "d=EDa" = /dhi-a/, ma "dio" /dhyo/; "b=FAho" /bhu-o/, ma buey /bhwey/. Do fakte, po= r ni W ne esas desfacile pronuncebla, nam ni havas ta sono irgekande U ne = acentizita preiras altra vokalo. Tamen, me komprenas vua argumenti pri l'a= ltra lingui, e do mem se en la Hispana ne existas ta problemo, olca ya dur= as existar en altra lingui. Standez bone, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1456 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23877 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 10:53:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 10:53:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 10:53:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 10:52:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.161] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2005 10:52:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:52:51 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 53 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Ka retrovenar aden Latino ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Ka retrovenar ? Ka retrogerar ? Amikale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1457 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82957 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 11:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 11:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp9.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 11:26:55 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0907.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id AF3EB1C0044F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:26:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf0903 (wwinf0903 [172.22.140.30]) by mwinf0907.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A73451C0042D for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:26:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <28305695.1105442814669.JavaMail.www@wwinf0903> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:26:54 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.22 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Mediato X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar samideani, En la Franca-Ido dicionario (di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront = 1905) existas la sequanta vorti: m=E9diat : mediata m=E9diatiser : (tr.) me= diat-igar Ma nek en ca Franca-Ido dicionario, nek en la listo di nova vorti= Nova vorti adoptita dal U.L.I depos 1922 ( kompilita da Camiel De Cock ), = nek en la listo di Nova vorti kun tradukuri G.A.F.I.H propozita en 2000 da = Robert Carnaghan, on povas trovar traduko di franca substantivo "m=E9diat"= qua signifikas komunikala moyeno kom la radio, la televiziono, la jurnalar= o, la diski DVD e CD, ec. Kad la substantivo "mediato" ja existas? Se ne me= propozas adoptar ol por definar irga komunikala moyeno. Kordiala saluti= Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1458 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20649 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 12:04:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 12:04:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 12:04:07 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0403.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 36F2F1C01118 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:04:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf0403 (wwinf0403 [172.22.135.30]) by mwinf0403.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 326731C01104 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:04:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <10703845.1105445042196.JavaMail.www@wwinf0403> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:04:02 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.27 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: mediato 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar samideani, Rilektante mea lasta mesajo me deskovris ke me eroris : ne = esis "m=E9diat" ma " m=E9dia" quan me intencis diskutar. Do sube esas la no= va mesaso: En la Franca-Ido dicionario (di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront 1905= ) existas la sequanta vorti: m=E9diat : mediata m=E9diatiser : (tr.) mediat= -igar Ma nek en ca Franca-Ido dicionario, nek en la listo di nova vorti Nov= a vorti adoptita dal U.L.I depos 1922 ( kompilita da Camiel De Cock ), nek = en la listo di Nova vorti kun tradukuri G.A.F.I.H propozita en 2000 da Robe= rt Carnaghan, on povas trovar traduko di franca substantivo "m=E9dia" qua = signifikas komunikala moyeno kom la radio, la televiziono, la jurnalaro, la= diski DVD e CD, ec. Kad la substantivo "mediato" ja existas? Se ne me prop= ozas adoptar ol por definar irga komunikala moyeno. Kordiala saluti Loik = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1459 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77140 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 16:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 16:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp10.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 16:17:10 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1007.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A508E280015F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:16:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf1002 (wwinf1002 [172.22.141.29]) by mwinf1007.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 985762800139 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:16:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <8708313.1105460208609.JavaMail.www@wwinf1002> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:16:48 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.21 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar samideani, Quale existas la vorti "libraro" e "biblioteko" (por la mobl= o o l'edifico), ni povus havar kun la vorto "*mediato" ca du sequanta vorti= : "*mediataro e *mediateko" qua exprimus la franca vorto "m=E9diath=E8que".= Saluti amikala. Loik [Non-text portions of this message have been remov= ed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1460 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30058 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 19:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 19:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.26) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 19:30:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:30:17 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.78 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:29:23 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:29:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2005 19:30:17.0610 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB38FEA0:01C4F813] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.26 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Nomi en Ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Eduardo, Me kredas ke nomi en Ido inkluzas anke Paulo (e supozeble anke Paula) e Maria. Me esperas ke co helpos. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1461 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78939 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 20:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 20:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep14-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.21) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 20:24:18 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep14-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20050111202416.ROJZ1537.amsfep14-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:24:16 +0100 Message-ID: <00e601c4f81b$4af2ad40$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <10703845.1105445042196.JavaMail.www@wwinf0403> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:22:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.21 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] mediato 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Loik, Me tre konkordas ke Ido bezonez vorto por la moderna instituti di (amas-)komunikado: televiziono, jurnali, radiofono, revui, periodali, edc. La vorto 'jurnalaro' ne vere kovras omna ta moyeni di komunikado. Me prizas la vorto 'medio', pro ke ol semblas a me sat internaciona, ma ol ja havas altra signifiko en Ido. Ka forsan: moyenaro o la moyeni, novajizili, o *novumizili ('novumo' = raportajo pri aktuala eventi en la mondo)? "Mediato" anke ne es mala. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kar samideani, Rilektante mea lasta mesajo me deskovris ke me eroris : ne esis "m�diat" ma " m�dia" quan me intencis diskutar. Do sube esas la nova mesaso: En la Franca-Ido dicionario (di L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront 1905) existas la sequanta vorti: m�diat : mediata m�diatiser : (tr.) mediat-igar Ma nek en ca Franca-Ido dicionario, nek en la listo di nova vorti Nova vorti adoptita dal U.L.I depos 1922 ( kompilita da Camiel De Cock ), nek en la listo di Nova vorti kun tradukuri G.A.F.I.H propozita en 2000 da Robert Carnaghan, on povas trovar traduko di franca substantivo "m�dia" qua signifikas komunikala moyeno kom la radio, la televiziono, la jurnalaro, la diski DVD e CD, ec. Kad la substantivo "mediato" ja existas? Se ne me propozas adoptar ol por definar irga komunikala moyeno. Kordiala saluti Loik Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1462 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13283 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 22:00:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 22:00:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 22:00:18 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.125.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.125] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CoU3j-000NEE-0F for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:00:16 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 22:01:34 GMT Message-ID: <200511122134.552650@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] De l'Enciklopedio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Eduardo, Multa danki pri vua tradukuri. Me jus finis traktar la listo= e me ya trovis ol esar utila. Me adjuntis plura nomi a mea listo ed anke = plenigis, per la tradukuri, diversa "trui" pri nomi ja en mea listo. Nun m= e esas pronta por vua duesma listo. Voluntez savar ke la tradukuri Portugal= ana ne esas necesa por mea tasko, nam me bezonas nur Angla, Franca, Germana= , Hispana, Italiana (e Rusa). Robert. ___________ P.S. La korekta vorti e= sas "Italiana", "Arjentiniana" e "publikigar". Ye 23 dec 2004 Eduardo A. = Rodi skribis: >=A0Kara samideani, > >=A0Yen l'unesma parto dil Enciklopedio= quan me promisis tradukar. Co >=A0esas proxime un triimo de la tota chapit= ro pri "Tero". > >=A0Por evitar konfundo, e konseque, erori, me sequis la l= inguo-ordino >=A0qua aparas en la Enciklopedio ipsa, malgre ke olu diferas = del >=A0tradicionala DEFIRS. La linguo-ordino esas: >=A0Hispana|Angla|Portu= gala|Itala [Italiana]|Franca|Germana > >=A0Per la signo "|" me separas la n= omi en singla linguo. Per >=A0parentezi, me indikas vorti omisebla del nomo= . Exemple: Onu darfas >=A0dicar en la Hispana: "L=EDnea del Ecuador" o simp= le: "Ecuador". Do me >=A0skribas: "(L=EDnea del) Ecuador". E per la signo "= /" me separas du >=A0varianti por la sama ideo en la sama linguo. > >=A0For= san kelka nomi aparas dufoye. Lo esas pro ke li esas en >=A0diferanta dezeg= nuri. Me intencis evitar riskribar elementi iterata, >=A0ma es posibla ke m= e tamen skribis ulo plurfoye neintence. > >=A0Se on bezonas la datumi forma= la dil enciklopedio, yen oli. La verko >=A0nomesas en la Hispana "Diccionar= io visual 6 idiomas", da Jean- >=A0Claude Corbell e Ariane Archambault. La = kopiyuro apartenas a QA >=A0International, 2004 (omna yuri rezervita). E la= verko publikesis [publikigesis] (e >=A0duras ankore publikesar [publikiges= ar]) per la jurnalo Arjentina [Arjentiniana] "Clar=EDn", ye >=A0singla mard= io e venerdio. > >=A0Se ulu trovas irga eroro, voluntez indikar lo a me en = ta forumo. Ma >=A0remarkez ke la enciklopedio avertas ke "kelkafoye eventas= ke plura >=A0vorti employesas por aludar la sama realajo. En ta kazi, on >= =A0selektabas la vorto employata maxim freque dal autori maxim >=A0konocata= ." Do forsan vi konocas ula kozo per nomo diferanta de ta >=A0qua aparas hi= ke. > >=A0Fine, se ulo ne komprenesas, voluntez indikar lo a me en ta forum= o, >=A0por ke me deskriptez l'imajo di qua la nomo ne komprenesas. > >=A0Do= , yen la vorti, e Felica Yaro Nova por vi omna. > >=A0Eduardo A. RODI. > > = >=A0*Geograf=EDa|Geography|Geografia|Geografia|Geographie|Geographie * >=A0= configuraci=F3n de los continentes|configuration of the >=A0continents|conf= igura=E7=E3o dos continentes|carta dei >=A0continenti|configuration des con= tinents|Lage der Kontinente * >=A0planisferio|planisphere|planisf=E9rio|pla= nisfero|planisph=E8re|Erdoberfl=E4 >=A0che *=C1rtico|Arctic|=C1rtico|Artide= |Arctique|Arktis >=A0*Am=E9rica Central|Central America|Am=E9rica Central|A= merica >=A0Centrale|Am=E9rique centrale|Mittelamerika [e cetere] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1463 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29363 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 23:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 23:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 23:13:37 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.106.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.106] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CoVCh-000Pdi-Nv for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:13:36 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:15:05 GMT Message-ID: <200511123155.519614@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <8708313.1105460208609.JavaMail.www@wwinf1002> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.92 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Loik, Semblas a me ke nova radiko "mediat" (por substantivo) ne esus = oportuna kande olua senco diferus de ta dil existanta radiko "mediat" (por = adjektivo "mediata"). Uzata adverbe ("mediate") quale on savus la senco int= encata? Ka ne suficas "moyeni komunikala"? Se esus necesa nur un vorto, ni= bezonus komparar tradukuri AFGHIR ante pensar pri apta vorto. En Esp exis= tas sufixo "teko" qua havas diversa senci (probable tro multa), ma forsan n= i povus adoptar oportune un senco: kolekturo o kolektuyo di kozi di certena= sorto. Exemple: diskoteko, filmoteko, koleoptero-teko, mapoteko, papiliono= -teko, libroteko. Tamen en Ido la vorto "teko" ja existas por arboro tropi= kala de qua venas tre bona ligno valoroza (teko-ligno). (Esp havas "tektono= " por la ligno ed arboro, de la botanikala Latina vorto "Tectona"). La Fra= nca vorti "m=E9diath=E8que" e "m=E9dia" semblas koncernar aferi diferanta. = Segun mea kompreno, la vorto "m=E9dia" signifikas "(omna) moyeni komunikala= ", dum ke la vorto "m=E9diath=E8que" signifikas kolekturo di dokumenti dive= rs-forma (exemple ye disko, kaseto, diapozitivo e filmo). La moyeni komuni= kala ofte uzas o produktas dokumenti, ma la relato inter li esas same gener= ala kam ta inter firmi e dokumenti, od inter skripteri e papero. Robert. _= _______ >=A0Kar samideani, >=A0Quale existas la vorti "libraro" e "biblio= teko" (por la moblo o >=A0l'edifico), ni povus havar kun la vorto "*mediato= " ca du sequanta >=A0vorti: >=A0"*mediataro e *mediateko" qua exprimus la f= ranca vorto >=A0"m=E9diath=E8que". Saluti amikala. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1464 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67364 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 23:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 23:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 23:13:38 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.106.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.106] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CoVCj-000Pdi-7S for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:13:37 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:15:19 GMT Message-ID: <2005111231519.334576@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050111035840.XCY16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.92 From: Robert Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Richard, Me korektigas sube [tale]. Precipue omisita esas konjuncioni= . Kordiale, Robert. >=A0Kara =A0Hans, Eduardo, Herder e Jacques, >=A0Me = remarkis ke en la dicionario da Pesch es la sugestita vorto * >=A0werar =3D= havar sur la korpo. Ta =A0vorto similesas l=92angla =93to wear=94, >=A0ma = la litero =93w=94 kreas problemi en diversa lingui. En germana, w =3D >=A0v= ; en rusa ed Esperanto =93w=94 ne existas, ed en romana lingui =93w=94 es >= =A0rara; (en Mexico [Mexikia] la hispana skribas =A0e pronuncas =93w=94 qua= le =93hu=94, do >=A0Huasteca es =93Wasteka=94). L=92angla pronunco di =93w= =94 quale =93u=94 probable >=A0naskigis [naskis] en anciena Germania, e plu= tarde =93w=94 divenis =93g=94. p.e. >=A0l=92anciena germana =93werra=94 = =A0(milito) produktis =94guerre=94 en franca. >=A0Me sugestas *gerar de la = latina, quankam evidente *gerar havas >=A0=93fals amiko=94, =A0=93gerer=94 = en franca. >=A0=93Metar =93 es apta ma signifikas movado. Ido mankas vorto = [por]=A0signifikar >=A0stando t.e. la kozo sur la korpo pos [ke] on metas o= l. (Altra vorti >=A0quale =93portar=94 ed =93uzar=94 havas plura senci). >= =A0Tamen me konkordas, [ke] Ido rare bezonas nova radiki, [nam] ol ja havas= ampla >=A0vortaro ed utila afixi. >=A0Amikale, =A0Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1465 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52132 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2005 23:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2005 23:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2005 23:13:39 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.106.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.106] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CoVCk-000Pdi-OG for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:13:39 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 23:15:28 GMT Message-ID: <2005111231528.397608@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <007401c4f782$ac90dac0$bf60dc51@landloic> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.92 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Loic, Ne "jus" ma "nur" por "nur helpolinguo". La vorto "jus" esas u= zata tale: "Lu atingis la treno jus ante olua departo". Kordiale, Robert.= On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 03:10:08 +0100, Loic Landais wrote: >=A0Il skribis j= uste ke Ido ne es matrolinguo ma jus helpolinguo e ke >=A0konseque l'exista= nta vortaro plus la afixi e kompozita vorti povas From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1466 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81153 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 00:59:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 00:59:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO brando.numericable.net) (80.236.3.116) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 00:59:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 5049 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 00:59:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by brando.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 12 Jan 2005 00:59:00 -0000 Message-ID: <006f01c4f842$9e2b8a00$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <2005111231528.397608@SonyFX805> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 02:04:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.116 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Danko, Robert, pro vua korektigo ! Kordiale Loïc ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert" À : Envoyé : mercredi 12 janvier 2005 00:15 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar Kara Loic, Ne "jus" ma "nur" por "nur helpolinguo". La vorto "jus" esas uzata tale: "Lu atingis la treno jus ante olua departo". Kordiale, Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1467 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9514 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 01:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 01:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.144) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 01:16:52 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050112011651.QOND23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:16:51 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050112011650.JASR16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:16:50 +1300 To: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:16:50 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050112011650.JASR16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.144 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kar Eduardo. Danko por vua komenti. Me esis docisto dum quar yari che la 'Colegio Britanico' en Mexiko. Me remarkas ke evidente l'Azteka linguo uzas la sono di 'w' qua la Hispaniani skribas quale 'hu' (kun muta 'h'). Altra soni es 'x' = 'sh' e 'j' = 'h' (audebla o guturala). Fakte, on pronuncas ibe la nomo di la lando Mexikia quale 'Mehiko' kun audebla 'h'. Ultre la litero 'j' tempope havas la sono di guturala 'h', do on vidas 'Mejico" por la lando. Tala problemi pri soni anke eventis dum la tempo di la Britaniana Imperio. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" > Date: 2005/01/11 Tue PM 06:45:43 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] Re: *Gerar > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1468 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25812 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 01:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 01:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.119) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 01:43:40 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050112014153.XSCX1639.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:41:53 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050112014152.IZBN23571.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:41:52 +1300 To: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:41:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050112014152.IZBN23571.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.119 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Ka retrovenar aden Latino ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Jacques, Me ne tote komprenas vua questiono ma tempope on uzas Latina en Ido kande la diversa lingui di Europa ne konkordas. Dro. Zamenhof trovis por Esperanto ke la korelativa vorti esis nekonciliebla do il inventis la famoza artificala tabelo. En 1894 il agnoskis ke ta tabelo kreis problemi e sugestis vorto de Latina quale 'omna', 'nultempe', ,'ube' edc. Tala vorti ni nun trovas en Ido pro ke Latina esis la bazo di Romana lingui e hodie formacas multa vorti en l'ordinara vortaro ed en teknikala termini. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "jacquesdehe" > Date: 2005/01/11 Tue PM 11:52:51 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] Ka retrovenar aden Latino ? > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1469 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1256 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 04:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 04:02:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.147) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 04:02:17 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050112040215.STDE23939.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:02:15 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050112040215.KRCS23571.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:02:15 +1300 To: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:02:15 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050112040215.KRCS23571.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.147 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] mediato 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Hans, Segun 'Dyer', un senco di A: 'medium' es 'moyeno' Do vua sugesto di 'moyenaro' semblas tre apta por ula moyeno qua donas informo, sive per papero, radio o televiziono, edc. Fakte A:'media' es Latina pluralo di 'medium' (di neutra deklinado) ma pro miskompreno, ta vorto en angla nun havas singulara senco. Ultre me prizas vua sugesto di 'novumo' por omna tipi di informo, sive eventi, deskovri o modi, edc. La vorto 'novajo' nur havas la senco di 'nova kozo'. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "H. Stuifbergen" > Date: 2005/01/12 Wed AM 09:22:37 GMT+13:00 > To: > Subject: Re: [linguo] mediato 2 > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1470 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7955 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 05:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 05:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 05:53:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 05:53:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.252] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 05:53:39 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:53:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 205 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.41 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Nomi en Ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara James, vu skribis: > Me kredas ke nomi en Ido inkluzas anke Paulo (e supozeble anke Paula) e > Maria. > Me esperas ke co helpos. Danko, James. Vu duras helpar me. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1471 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51611 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 05:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 05:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 05:57:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 05:57:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 05:57:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:57:49 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <10703845.1105445042196.JavaMail.www@wwinf0403> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1076 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.49 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: mediato 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Me ofte trovas ed uzas la vorto "komunikili" por aludar t= a koncepto. Ka to esas eroro? Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. Loic LAND= AIS skribis: > Kar samideani, > Rilektante mea lasta mesajo me deskovris ke= me eroris : ne esis "m=E9diat" ma " m=E9dia" quan me intencis diskutar. = > Do sube esas la nova mesaso: > En la Franca-Ido dicionario (di L.Couturat= e L.de Beaufront 1905) existas la sequanta vorti: > m=E9diat : mediata > = m=E9diatiser : (tr.) mediat-igar > Ma nek en ca Franca-Ido dicionario, nek = en la listo di nova vorti Nova vorti adoptita dal U.L.I depos 1922 ( kompi= lita da Camiel De Cock ), nek en la listo di Nova vorti kun tradukuri G.A.= F.I.H propozita en 2000 da Robert Carnaghan, on povas trovar traduko di = franca substantivo "m=E9dia" qua signifikas komunikala moyeno kom la radio= , la televiziono, la jurnalaro, la diski DVD e CD, ec. > Kad la substantivo= "mediato" ja existas? Se ne me propozas adoptar ol por definar irga komun= ikala moyeno. > > Kordiala saluti > Loik > > [Non-text portions of this = message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1472 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75562 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 06:14:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 06:14:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.32) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 06:14:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 06:14:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.249] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 06:14:55 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:14:53 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200511122134.552650@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2050 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.32 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] De l'Enciklopedio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Robert, vu skribis: > Multa danki pri vua tradukuri. Me jus finis tr= aktar la listo e me ya trovis ol esar utila. > Me adjuntis plura nomi a me= a listo ed anke plenigis, per la tradukuri, diversa "trui" pri nomi ja en = mea listo. > Nun me esas pronta por vua duesma listo. Voluntez savar ke la = tradukuri Portugalana ne esas necesa por mea tasko, nam me bezonas nur An= gla, Franca, Germana, Hispana, Italiana (e Rusa). > P.S. La korekta vorti e= sas "Italiana", "Arjentiniana" e "publikigar". Me joyas ke to esabas util= a. Or, se lo ne tro jenas vu, me preferas durar skribar la tradukuro Portu= galana. Me transskribas la listi anke pro mea intereso personala e me rete= nas li en mea komputoro. Do ekprenar la tradukuri Portugalana de mea listi= povus esar plu multa laboro kam skribar li por vu. Uldie me esperas kompl= etar mea listi per sepesma tradukuro: Ido. Pri vua korektiguri, ya "publ= ikigar" es la formo korekta. Ma, pri "Itala" ed "Arjentina", me sequis la = KGD: 19. =97 La maxim multa nomi di landi e ti di la kin parti dil mondo = konservas sua Latina formo historiala, dom fakte konocata internacione : = Europa, Afrika, Amerika, Azia (4), Oceania, Anglia, Belgia, Bolivia, Da= nia, Francia, Germania, Grekia, Hispania, Italia, Rusia, Skotia, Suedia; A= rabia, Armenia, Australia, Laponia, e. c. (Videz la lexico) (5). 20. = =97 La nomi di la habitanti derivas de oli per l'adjunto dil sufixo -an, p= os supreso dil a finala : Europ-ano, Itali-ano, Bolivi- ano, e. c. La f= ormi Angliano, Franciano, Germaniano, Rusiano, Suediano, Daniano, Polonian= o, Grekiano, Arabiano, Hispaniano, Skotiano, Laponiano, Suisiano esas tote= reguloza, do permisata. Ma per imito dil uzado internaciona, qua por ta n= omi di rasi o populi havas formi plu kurta, Ido preferas Anglo, Franco, Ge= rmano, Ruso, Suedo, Dano, Polono, Greko, Arabo, Hispano, Skoto, Lapono, Su= iso (6). De li venas reguloze l'adjektivi Angla, Franca, Germana, Rusa,= Sueda, Dana, Polona, Greka, Araba, Hispana, Skota, Lapona, Suisa. Stand= ez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1473 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47155 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 06:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 06:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 06:25:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 06:25:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2005 06:25:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:25:42 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050112011650.JASR16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1400 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Re: *Gerar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Richard: "M=E9xico" esas fakte l'ecepto por la pronunco dil litero X= en mea linguo. Ta litero esas kustumale pronuncita kom /ks/, o da kelki, = kom /s/ (kande ol esas inicala): xilof=F3n /(k)siloFON/. E la J esas semp= re pronuncita quale H "frikativa"(?), quale la "ch" dil Germana "Achtung" = od la H^ en Esperanto. Ma ne esas stranja ke la Hispana e l'Azteka havas s= imilaji en la pronunco di sua literi, nam, se me ne eroras, olta provizis = l'alfabeto por la skribado di olca, e di mult altra lingui Amerikana antea= al arivo dil Hispaniani. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. > Kar Eduardo.= > Danko por vua komenti. Me esis docisto dum quar yari che la > 'Colegio B= ritanico' en Mexiko. Me remarkas ke evidente > l'Azteka linguo uzas la sono= di 'w' qua la Hispaniani > skribas quale 'hu' (kun muta 'h'). Altra soni = es 'x' =3D 'sh' > e 'j' =3D 'h' (audebla o guturala). Fakte, on pronuncas >= ibe la nomo di la lando Mexikia quale 'Mehiko' kun audebla > 'h'. Ultre la= litero 'j' tempope havas la sono di guturala 'h', do on vidas 'Mejico" po= r la lando. Tala > problemi pri soni anke eventis dum la tempo di la > Brit= aniana Imperio. Amikale, Richard S. > > > > From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" > > Date: 2005/01/11 Tue PM 06:45:43 GMT+13:00 > > To: linguol= isto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [linguo] Re: *Gerar > > > > > > > [No= n-text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1474 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31669 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2005 19:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2005 19:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.24) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2005 19:49:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:49:13 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.75 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:48:42 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:48:42 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2005 19:49:13.0066 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA6B94A0:01C4F8DF] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.24 From: "James Chandler" Subject: KGD pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Eduardo En la KGD trovesas kelka konsilo pri propra nomi en Ido: http://ido.narod.ru/linguo/kgd/propra-nomi.htm Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1475 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21378 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2005 05:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2005 05:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2005 05:11:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2005 05:10:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.140] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2005 05:10:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 05:10:57 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 450 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.41 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: KGD pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara James, vu skribis: > En la KGD trovesas kelka konsilo pri propra nomi en Ido: > http://ido.narod.ru/linguo/kgd/propra-nomi.htm Ho, yes. Vu es justa! Ta listo ya suficos por me. Danko. Nu, me supozas ke esas mistaipajo en ta texto. Ube lektesas: "Ne cherpez de la Latina lia nominativo e dicez ...", me konjektas ke la texto korekta devus esar: "_NI_ cherpez de la Latina lia nominativo e dicez ..." Ka no? Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1476 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27900 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2005 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2005 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2005 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2005 08:57:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.116] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2005 08:57:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:57:27 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1112 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 From: "Fernando TEJON" Subject: Re: KGD pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono EDITERIO KRAYONO Nova edituron di la "kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza di la l= inguo internaciona Ido" on povas obtenar de www.publikaji.tk (en la fako = "libri") o direte de: http://es.geocities.com/krayono/kgd.pdf Ta libro es= as kom pdf-dokumento facile imprimebla heme por krear nekareebla papera A4= -libro por singla Idisto. Pluse Editerio Krayono editis ta pdf-dokumento p= or facila uzado anke komputore, per insertar ligili-indexo (A: bookmarks) = (videz oli sinistre en la pdf-dokumento) por rapida ed efikiva sercho di i= rga chapitro. Ma supozeble vi omna ja savas, pro la informiva mesaji da E= diterio Krayono, ke ta importantega libro enretigesis kom pdf-dokumento ul= a monati ante nun. Kustumale multa desfacilaji e dubiti en la uzado di ni= a kara interlinguo desaparus facile se on lektus pluse ta libro, fakte ni= a "Biblo", ka no? Editerio Krayono / Fernando Tej=F3n. --- In linguolist= o@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > Kar Eduardo > >= En la KGD trovesas kelka konsilo pri propra nomi en Ido: > http://ido.naro= d.ru/linguo/kgd/propra-nomi.htm > > Kordiale, James Chandler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1477 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19656 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2005 17:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2005 17:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2005 17:45:29 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E911D19A70; Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:45:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41E80521.8060607@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 18:45:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 192 (januaro - aprilo 1960) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Hiere, dum la Ido-renkontro en Amsterdam - Nederlando, Hans Stuifbergen provizis me per nova stoko de revui Progreso anciena. Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 192 (januaro - aprilo 1960) - 1.632 kB Kontenajo: - La premii Sonning e Lemair por Doktoro Schweitzer - Anderegg, E - La renkontro internaciona en Gen�ve - Anderegg, E - Ghana - Jacob, Heinz - La Heiligenstadt-testamento - Brismark, Hans (Traduko - originala autoro: Ludwig van Beethoven) - Kroniko - Kreis-Schneeberger, J. - Oficala Komuniki - ULI Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1478 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89461 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2005 21:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2005 21:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2005 21:12:56 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.201.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.201] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CpYkZ-0003u5-BZ for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:12:55 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:12:18 GMT Message-ID: <2005114211218.740120@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] De l'Enciklopedio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Eduardo, Yes, certe, se por vu esus plusa laboro ne inkluzar la tradu= kuri Portugalana kam inkluzar oli, do durez inkluzar oli. Ne multe diferas = por me, kompreneble. Ka vu mustas ri-skribar la texto dil tradukuri? Ka fo= rsan esus plu facila por vu fotokopiar la originalo? Ne facez plu multa lab= oro kam bezonata! Pri la komenti en KGD, la plu kurta formi citita ne inkl= uzas "Itala" od "Arjentina". Voluntez notar la sequanta vorti quin vu cita= s: "... per imito dil uzado internaciona, qua por ta nomi di rasi o populi = havas formi plu kurta ...". Hike importanta esas la vorti "qua por ta nomi = ... havas formi plu kurta". Por Italia ed Arjentinia, la formi plu interna= ciona dil adjektivi esas Italiana ed Arjentiniana. En la vortari, Franca-I= do da L. de Beaufront e L. Couturat, ed Ido-Angla da L.H. Dyer, on trovas, = exemple, "Germano" e "Suedo" ma "Australiano" ed "Italiano" (ne "Australo" = e ne "Italo"). Kordiale, Robert. _______ >=A0Kara Robert, vu skribis: > = >>=A0Multa danki pri vua tradukuri. Me jus finis traktar la listo e me >> >= =A0ya trovis ol esar utila. >>=A0Me adjuntis plura nomi a mea listo ed anke= plenigis, per la >> >=A0tradukuri, diversa "trui" pri nomi ja en mea listo= . >>=A0Nun me esas pronta por vua duesma listo. Voluntez savar ke la >> >= =A0tradukuri Portugalana ne esas necesa por mea tasko, nam me bezonas >=A0n= ur Angla, Franca, Germana, Hispana, Italiana (e Rusa). > >>=A0P.S. La korek= ta vorti esas "Italiana", "Arjentiniana" >> >=A0e "publikigar". > >=A0Me jo= yas ke to esabas utila. Or, se lo ne tro jenas vu, me preferas >=A0durar sk= ribar la tradukuro Portugalana. Me transskribas la listi >=A0anke pro mea i= ntereso personala e me retenas li en mea komputoro. >=A0Do ekprenar la trad= ukuri Portugalana de mea listi povus esar plu >=A0multa laboro kam skribar = li por vu. Uldie me esperas kompletar mea >=A0listi per sepesma tradukuro: = Ido. > > >=A0Pri vua korektiguri, ya "publikigar" es la formo korekta. Ma, = pri >=A0"Itala" ed "Arjentina", me sequis la KGD: > >=A019. =97 La maxim mu= lta nomi di landi e ti di la kin parti dil mondo >=A0konservas sua Latina f= ormo historiala, dom fakte konocata >=A0internacione : > >=A0Europa, Afrika= , Amerika, Azia (4), Oceania, Anglia, Belgia, >=A0Bolivia, Dania, Francia, = Germania, Grekia, Hispania, Italia, Rusia, >=A0Skotia, Suedia; Arabia, Arme= nia, Australia, Laponia, e. c. (Videz >=A0la lexico) (5). > >=A020. =97 La = nomi di la habitanti derivas de oli per l'adjunto dil >=A0sufixo -an, pos s= upreso dil a finala : Europ-ano, Itali-ano, Bolivi- >=A0 ano, e. c. > >=A0L= a formi Angliano, Franciano, Germaniano, Rusiano, Suediano, >=A0Daniano, Po= loniano, Grekiano, Arabiano, Hispaniano, Skotiano, >=A0Laponiano, Suisiano = esas tote reguloza, do permisata. Ma per imito >=A0dil uzado internaciona, = qua por ta nomi di rasi o populi havas >=A0formi plu kurta, Ido preferas An= glo, Franco, Germano, Ruso, Suedo, >=A0Dano, Polono, Greko, Arabo, Hispano,= Skoto, Lapono, Suiso (6). > >=A0De li venas reguloze l'adjektivi Angla, Fr= anca, Germana, Rusa, >=A0Sueda, Dana, Polona, Greka, Araba, Hispana, Skota,= Lapona, Suisa. > >=A0Standez bone. > >=A0Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1479 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25562 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2005 06:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2005 06:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2005 06:23:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2005 06:23:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2005 06:23:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:23:52 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005114211218.740120@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2097 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] De l'Enciklopedio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Robert, vu skribis: > Ka vu mustas ri-skribar la texto dil tradukuri? Ka forsan esus plu facila por vu fotokopiar la originalo? Ne facez plu multa laboro kam bezonata! Konsiderez ke en singla pagino esas admaxime 10 vorti (e lia tradukuri aden omna lingui e la dezegnuri korespondanta a ta vorti). Exemple, la unesma transskribon me prenis de 30 pagini. Pluse, me ne havas mashino apta por aptigar fotokopiuri por mesajo elektronala. Irgakaze, to esas ya nula problemo. Ne obliviez ke ultre por Ido, me facas ta laboro anke pro ke me volas havar la vortaro kompleta en mea komputoro. > Pri la komenti en KGD, la plu kurta formi citita ne inkluzas "Itala" od "Arjentina". > > Voluntez notar la sequanta vorti quin vu citas: "... per imito dil uzado internaciona, qua por ta nomi di rasi o populi havas formi plu kurta ...". Hike importanta esas la vorti "qua por ta nomi ... havas formi plu kurta". > > Por Italia ed Arjentinia, la formi plu internaciona dil adjektivi esas Italiana ed Arjentiniana. > > En la vortari, Franca-Ido da L. de Beaufront e L. Couturat, ed Ido- Angla da L.H. Dyer, on trovas, exemple, "Germano" e "Suedo" ma "Australiano" ed "Italiano" (ne "Australo" e ne "Italo"). Ma ta kriterio postulus ke omna Idisti savez qua formo esas maxim internaciona, por l'adjektivo nacionala di singla lando finanta per - ia, por savar ka la formo en Ido devas esar olta en -iana od ol darfas anke esar la formo en -a. Pluse, ya por Italia, la formo maxim internaciona esas en -iana, ma por Arjentinia: D: Argentinische ("Argentinien" es la lando) E: Argentinian OD Argentine F: Argentin I: Argentino R: Argentinskiy S: Argentino. De nia sis lingui DEFIRS, nur un havas la formo en "ian". E mem ta linguo (la Angla) admisas l'altra formo anke, quankam me konfesas nultempe savir exakte kande on uzas un formo e kande on uzas l'altra. Kad "Argentinian" esas la substantivo e "Argentine" es l'adjektivo? Irgakaze, esas vera ke la formo en -iana esas sempre admisebla kom la dezinenco regulala por omna landi finanta per -ia. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1480 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53969 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2005 09:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2005 09:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.38) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2005 09:24:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 01:24:32 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 213.166.17.21 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:23:16 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:23:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2005 09:24:32.0397 (UTC) FILETIME=[05709BD0:01C4FAE4] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.38 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: KGD pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Eduardo Pos rilektar ta parto di KGD, me konkordas kun vu, ke 'Ne' es probable eroro, e devas esar 'Ni' Tamen me preferas ex. Johano kam Ioannes. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College >From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] Re: KGD pri nomi >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 05:10:57 -0000 > > > >Kara James, vu skribis: > > > En la KGD trovesas kelka konsilo pri propra nomi en Ido: > > http://ido.narod.ru/linguo/kgd/propra-nomi.htm > >Ho, yes. Vu es justa! Ta listo ya suficos por me. Danko. > >Nu, me supozas ke esas mistaipajo en ta texto. Ube lektesas: "Ne >cherpez de la Latina lia nominativo e dicez ...", me konjektas ke la >texto korekta devus esar: "_NI_ cherpez de la Latina lia nominativo e >dicez ..." Ka no? > >Standez bone. > >Eduardo A. RODI. > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1481 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18438 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 00:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 00:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oughtred.numericable.net) (80.236.0.153) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 00:30:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 18169 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 00:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by oughtred.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 16 Jan 2005 00:30:39 -0000 Message-ID: <00ef01c4fb63$5414cd40$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <200511123155.519614@SonyFX805> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:35:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.153 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Robert, Hans, Richard e Eduardo, Pri la moyeni por difuzar la kulturo di omni exemple kom disko, filmo, jurnalo, afisho, ... existas la franca vorto "m�dia (o media)" quale existas anke l'angla vorto "media" pri "mass media". Pluse existas mem edifico ube ca moyeni esas acesebla quale libri en biblioteko ( pro quo biblioteko vice librareyo ?) Do semblas a me importanta ke Ido povas tradukar ca moderna koncepto. Me propozis *mediato e *mediateko ( por la ofico o la moblo) ma Robert juste respondis a me ke ja existas mediata ( kun la substantivo mediatajo) qua esas relativa a kauzo o persono ne direte ma per mediate . Do un di solvi povus esar nova sufixo e Robert skribis: > En Esp existas sufixo "teko" qua havas diversa senci (probable tro multa), > ma forsan ni povus adoptar oportune un senco: kolekturo o kolektuyo di kozi di certena sorto. > Exemple: diskoteko, filmoteko, koleoptero-teko, mapoteko, papiliono-teko, libroteko. >Tamen en Ido la vorto "teko" ja existas por arboro tropikala de qua venas tre bona ligno valoroza (teko-ligno). (Esp havas "tektono" por la ligno ed arboro, de la botanikala Latina vorto "Tectona"). Semblas a me ke Robert uzis "tek" quale sufixo ma plu juste "otek" nam la sufixo "tek" donas: diskteko, filmteko, koleopterteko, mapteko, papilionteko, librteko (ne pronuncebla). Pluse mea franca dicionario "Larousse" donas la sequanta defino por la franca vorto "teck o tek" : " n.m. (portug. teca , de t�kku , mot de la c�te de Malabar, 1772) Arbre de l'Asie tropicale, fournissant du bois dur, imputrescible (pour construction navale)." Altra solvo propozita da Hans Stuifbergen ed aprobita da Richard Steven: moyenaro o la moyeni, novajizili, o *novumizili ('novumo' = raportajo pri aktuala eventi en la mondo)? Ma moyenaro o la moyeni havas senco plu larja kam ca koncepto nam ol ne esas limitizata a la kulturo ma ol povesar uzata por altra domeni. Novajizili, o *novumizili havas senco min larja kam ca koncepto nam la kulturo ne esas limitizata a raportajo pri aktuala eventi en la mondo ! Altra solvo propozita da Eduardo A.Rodi : komunikili" . "Komunikili" ne bone tradukas ca koncepto pro ke ol havas plu larja senco qua kontenas anke la telephono, la e-posto, la radiodifuzo, la radiokomuniko, e.c. Do fine pro ke ya existas la vorto "biblioteko", me kredas ke *mediateko povas anke existar. Me definas *mediateko ca-maniere: *mediateko : edifico o moblo ube *kulturumi ( vice *mediati) stokesas. Sempre por la sama motivo me kredas ke povas existar la sequanta vorti: *diskoteko, *filmoteko, *koleopteroteko, *mapoteko, *papilionoteko, *libroteko. Me dankas vu pro vua respondi pri ca temo ed esperas ke la futura Komitato Linguala dil ULI propozos aceptebla solvo pri ca moderna koncepto. Amikala saluti ad omni. Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert" � : Envoy� : mercredi 12 janvier 2005 00:15 Objet : Re: [linguo] *mediateko Kara Loik, Semblas a me ke nova radiko "mediat" (por substantivo) ne esus oportuna kande olua senco diferus de ta dil existanta radiko "mediat" (por adjektivo "mediata"). Uzata adverbe ("mediate") quale on savus la senco intencata? Ka ne suficas "moyeni komunikala"? Se esus necesa nur un vorto, ni bezonus komparar tradukuri AFGHIR ante pensar pri apta vorto. En Esp existas sufixo "teko" qua havas diversa senci (probable tro multa), ma forsan ni povus adoptar oportune un senco: kolekturo o kolektuyo di kozi di certena sorto. Exemple: diskoteko, filmoteko, koleoptero-teko, mapoteko, papiliono-teko, libroteko. Tamen en Ido la vorto "teko" ja existas por arboro tropikala de qua venas tre bona ligno valoroza (teko-ligno). (Esp havas "tektono" por la ligno ed arboro, de la botanikala Latina vorto "Tectona"). La Franca vorti "m�diath�que" e "m�dia" semblas koncernar aferi diferanta. Segun mea kompreno, la vorto "m�dia" signifikas "(omna) moyeni komunikala", dum ke la vorto "m�diath�que" signifikas kolekturo di dokumenti divers-forma (exemple ye disko, kaseto, diapozitivo e filmo). La moyeni komunikala ofte uzas o produktas dokumenti, ma la relato inter li esas same generala kam ta inter firmi e dokumenti, od inter skripteri e papero. Robert. ________ > Kar samideani, > Quale existas la vorti "libraro" e "biblioteko" (por la moblo o > l'edifico), ni povus havar kun la vorto "*mediato" ca du sequanta > vorti: > "*mediataro e *mediateko" qua exprimus la franca vorto > "m�diath�que". Saluti amikala. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1482 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89011 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 07:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 07:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 07:21:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 07:20:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 07:20:16 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:20:12 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 465 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: KGD pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara James, vu skribis: > Pos rilektar ta parto di KGD, me konkordas kun vu, ke 'Ne' es probable > eroro, e devas esar 'Ni' > Tamen me preferas ex. Johano kam Ioannes. Yes, anke a me semblas plu eufonioza ta nomo kam olca. Ma adminime, me ja havas suficanta nomi por mea rakonto (ne pluse "rakonteto", konsiderante olua longeso). Me pensabas pri pozor olu en la seciono por "Arkivi" (Files) di Idolisto. Ka lo esus korekta? Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1483 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79392 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 07:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 07:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 07:35:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 07:35:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2005 07:34:58 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:34:55 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00ef01c4fb63$5414cd40$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1567 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.46 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Loic, vu skribis: > Altra solvo propozita da Hans Stuifbergen ed apr= obita da Richard Steven: > moyenaro o la moyeni, novajizili, o *novumizili= ('novumo' =3D raportajo pri > aktuala eventi en la mondo)? (...) > Altr= a solvo propozita da Eduardo A.Rodi : komunikili" . > "Komunikili" ne bone = tradukas ca koncepto pro ke ol havas plu larja senco > qua kontenas anke l= a telephono, la e-posto, la radiodifuzo, la > radiokomuniko, e.c. Me nur v= olis atencigar ke la elemento quan ni volas nomizar hike ne nur koncernas = *novumi/*nuveli, ma altra kozi, quale exemple muziko, fiktivaji, edc., qui= devas ne neglektesar en la nomo selektota. Generale, onu povas inkluzar t= o omna en l'ideo di "komuniko", e quoniam la "media" esas instrumenti, li = bone povus esar "komunikili" (qua esas vorto ja uzita kelkafoye da altra I= disti). Tamen vu esas justa ke anke altra elementi povas esar konsiderita = kom "komunikili", do me pensas ke la komunikili quin ni diskutas hike pov= as lore ridefinesar (opoze a le altra) kom "komunikili amasala" (Angle: ma= ss media; Hispane: medios masivos de comunicaci=F3n). Kontre, la teleFono = [se vu permisas mea korektigo], la e-posto e la radiokomuniko koncernas ge= nerale nur poka personi en singla komuniko. Nur un kozon me ne komprenas, = ka per "radiodifuzo" vu aludas la "radiofono" (t.e.: la "radio", en l'Angl= a, la Franca e la Hispana)? Se yes, pro quo vu exkluzas olu del "media"? K= a la "media" ne esas tradicionale la televiziono, la radiofono, la jurnali= , la revui, e nun, anke Internet? Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1484 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85747 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 10:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 10:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep19-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.20) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 10:43:08 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep19-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.05 201-2131-111-107-20040910) with SMTP id <20050116104216.IBJX16287.amsfep19-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:42:16 +0100 Message-ID: <004701c4fbb7$cf8f04a0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <200511123155.519614@SonyFX805> <00ef01c4fb63$5414cd40$bf60dc51@landloic> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:40:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.20 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Loik ed altri, Fakte, me tre konkordas kun vu pri la nociono, la signifiko quan havez la vorto por "media" (publikiges-organi). Do, me nun pensas ke, sequante la reguli di vortifado en Ido, ni konsiderez la GAFHIR-lingui. Ibe ni vidas: G: Media A: media F: m�dia H: medios de comunicati�n I: media R: "seredina" Pro ke 'medio' ja existas en Ido, ni esos obligata serchar altra vorto, od... chanjar la prezenta signifiko dil Ido-vorto 'medio' (cirkumajo) aden la dezirata signifiko (publikiges-organi). Por la prezenta signifiko di 'medio' ni ja ofte, (fakte preske), uzas 'cirkumajo'. E por la naturo cirkum ni, la stando di la naturo, ni uzas 'ambiento'. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html > Kara Robert, Hans, Richard e Eduardo, > > Pri la moyeni por difuzar la kulturo di omni exemple kom disko, filmo, > jurnalo, afisho, ... existas la franca vorto "m�dia (o media)" quale existas > anke l'angla vorto "media" pri "mass media". > Pluse existas mem edifico ube ca moyeni esas acesebla quale libri en > biblioteko ( pro quo biblioteko vice librareyo ?) > Do semblas a me importanta ke Ido povas tradukar ca moderna koncepto. > Me propozis *mediato e *mediateko ( por la ofico o la moblo) ma Robert > juste respondis a me ke ja existas mediata ( kun la substantivo mediatajo) > qua esas relativa a kauzo o persono ne direte ma per mediate . > > Do un di solvi povus esar nova sufixo e Robert skribis: > > En Esp existas sufixo "teko" qua havas diversa senci (probable tro multa), > > ma forsan ni povus adoptar oportune un senco: kolekturo o kolektuyo di > kozi di certena sorto. > > Exemple: diskoteko, filmoteko, koleoptero-teko, mapoteko, papiliono-teko, > libroteko. > >Tamen en Ido la vorto "teko" ja existas por arboro tropikala de qua venas > tre bona ligno valoroza (teko-ligno). (Esp havas "tektono" por la ligno ed > arboro, de la botanikala Latina vorto "Tectona"). > > Semblas a me ke Robert uzis "tek" quale sufixo ma plu juste "otek" nam la > sufixo "tek" donas: diskteko, filmteko, koleopterteko, mapteko, > papilionteko, librteko (ne pronuncebla). > Pluse mea franca dicionario "Larousse" donas la sequanta defino por la > franca vorto "teck o tek" : > " n.m. (portug. teca , de t�kku , mot de la c�te de Malabar, 1772) Arbre de > l'Asie tropicale, fournissant du bois dur, imputrescible (pour construction > navale)." > > Altra solvo propozita da Hans Stuifbergen ed aprobita da Richard Steven: > moyenaro o la moyeni, novajizili, o *novumizili ('novumo' = raportajo pri > aktuala eventi en la mondo)? > Ma moyenaro o la moyeni havas senco plu larja kam ca koncepto nam ol ne esas > limitizata a la kulturo ma ol povesar uzata por altra domeni. > Novajizili, o *novumizili havas senco min larja kam ca koncepto nam la > kulturo ne esas limitizata a raportajo pri aktuala eventi en la mondo ! > > Altra solvo propozita da Eduardo A.Rodi : komunikili" . > "Komunikili" ne bone tradukas ca koncepto pro ke ol havas plu larja senco > qua kontenas anke la telephono, la e-posto, la radiodifuzo, la > radiokomuniko, e.c. > > Do fine pro ke ya existas la vorto "biblioteko", me kredas ke *mediateko > povas anke existar. > Me definas *mediateko ca-maniere: > *mediateko : edifico o moblo ube *kulturumi ( vice *mediati) stokesas. > > Sempre por la sama motivo me kredas ke povas existar la sequanta vorti: > *diskoteko, *filmoteko, *koleopteroteko, *mapoteko, *papilionoteko, > *libroteko. > > Me dankas vu pro vua respondi pri ca temo ed esperas ke la futura Komitato > Linguala dil ULI propozos aceptebla solvo pri ca moderna koncepto. > > Amikala saluti ad omni. > Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1485 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15076 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 21:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2005 21:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kernighan.numericable.net) (80.236.3.114) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2005 21:00:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 28543 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2005 21:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by kernighan.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 16 Jan 2005 21:00:35 -0000 Message-ID: <00b301c4fc0f$25e83360$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" References: Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:05:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.114 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Eduardo, Danko pro vua korektigo pri telefono quan me skribis quale en franca pro ke olua prononcado esas sama. La franca vorti "radiophonie" e "radiodiffusion" esas sinonima e ni havas anke plu kurta vorto qua esas 'radio". La verbo esas " radiodiffuser" quan me tradukus per "radiodifuzar" (o forsan "radiodissendar" ). Ma ka "radiofonar " esus plu korekta ? *Radiofono o *radiodifuzo ? Mea franca-Ido dicionario ne donas tala traduko nek la listo di nova vorti di Camiel de Cock , nek olua di R.Carnaghan. Do sen oficala dicionario dil ULI me opinionas ke le amba esas bona. Evidente la televiziono, la *radiofono (o *radiodifuzo), la jurnalaro e nun Internet esas komunikili amasala (o mediato segun mea unesma propozo ) ed olua produkturi stokesas en *mediateki per diski, filmi, e.c. Mediatala Saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Eduardo A. Rodi" � : Envoy� : dimanche 16 janvier 2005 08:34 Objet : Re: [linguo] *mediateko Kara Loic, vu skribis: > Altra solvo propozita da Hans Stuifbergen ed aprobita da Richard Steven: > moyenaro o la moyeni, novajizili, o *novumizili ('novumo' = raportajo pri > aktuala eventi en la mondo)? (...) > Altra solvo propozita da Eduardo A.Rodi : komunikili" . > "Komunikili" ne bone tradukas ca koncepto pro ke ol havas plu larja senco > qua kontenas anke la telephono, la e-posto, la radiodifuzo, la > radiokomuniko, e.c. Me nur volis atencigar ke la elemento quan ni volas nomizar hike ne nur koncernas *novumi/*nuveli, ma altra kozi, quale exemple muziko, fiktivaji, edc., qui devas ne neglektesar en la nomo selektota. Generale, onu povas inkluzar to omna en l'ideo di "komuniko", e quoniam la "media" esas instrumenti, li bone povus esar "komunikili" (qua esas vorto ja uzita kelkafoye da altra Idisti). Tamen vu esas justa ke anke altra elementi povas esar konsiderita kom "komunikili", do me pensas ke la komunikili quin ni diskutas hike povas lore ridefinesar (opoze a le altra) kom "komunikili amasala" (Angle: mass media; Hispane: medios masivos de comunicaci�n). Kontre, la teleFono [se vu permisas mea korektigo], la e-posto e la radiokomuniko koncernas generale nur poka personi en singla komuniko. Nur un kozon me ne komprenas, ka per "radiodifuzo" vu aludas la "radiofono" (t.e.: la "radio", en l'Angla, la Franca e la Hispana)? Se yes, pro quo vu exkluzas olu del "media"? Ka la "media" ne esas tradicionale la televiziono, la radiofono, la jurnali, la revui, e nun, anke Internet? Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1486 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8102 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 01:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2005 01:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.119) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 01:46:48 -0000 Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050117014647.KMRU1639.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:46:47 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050117014646.PKRI7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:46:46 +1300 To: Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:46:46 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050117014646.PKRI7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.119 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Loic, Fakte Camiel de Cock donas la tre leda vorto, 'brodkastar' de l'Angla 'broadcast'. Me desprizas ta vorto nam Ido ja havas 'difuzar', dissendar' ed 'emisar', Do on nure dicas (radio)-difuzar, (radio)-dissendar o (radio)-emisar. Ni ofte ne bezonas la vorto 'radio' ed en Franca ni vidas 'diffusion', 'emission', edc. Me asertas ke 'Usez la existanta vorti e ne inventez nova radiki!' Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "Loic Landais" > Date: 2005/01/17 Mon AM 10:05:45 GMT+13:00 > To: "linguolisto" > Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1487 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25080 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 09:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2005 09:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 09:57:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2005 09:57:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.61] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2005 09:57:09 -0000 Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:56:34 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 261 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: ciencala e medikala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Robert skribis: > Kara Jacques, > Danko pro vua helpo qua esas vere utila e qua progresigas > la laboro linguala. (. . .) Me konsilas anke konsultar mea dicionario en Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo qua kontenas multa ciencala e medikala vorti. Amikale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1488 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48284 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2005 17:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2005 17:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2005 17:26:22 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490831A8F; Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:26:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.6.13]); Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:26:21 +0100 Message-ID: <41EBF536.6060204@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:26:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.144 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 136 (januaro - junio 1943) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis Progreso qua aperis dum la Mondmilito 2esma: Progreso 136 (Januaro - Junio 1943) - 441 kB Kontenajo: - Nia situeso - Kreis-Schneeberger, J. - Por nova horizonto e plu bona futuro - Anderegg, E - Retro-veno de Suisia - Waterkotte, Ed. G. (Traduko - originala autoro: Louis Pierard) - Kroniko - Kreis-Schneeberger, J. - Ofical informi - ULI Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 16-1-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1489 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69050 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2005 06:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2005 06:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2005 06:35:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2005 06:35:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2005 06:35:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 06:35:17 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00b301c4fc0f$25e83360$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1627 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] *mediateko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Loic, vu skribis: > La franca vorti "radiophonie" e "radiodiffusion" esas sinonima e ni havas > anke plu kurta vorto qua esas 'radio". > La verbo esas " radiodiffuser" quan me tradukus per "radiodifuzar" (o forsan > "radiodissendar" ). Ma ka "radiofonar " esus plu korekta ? > *Radiofono o *radiodifuzo ? Mea franca-Ido dicionario ne donas tala traduko > nek la listo di nova vorti di Camiel de Cock , nek olua di R.Carnaghan. Do > sen oficala dicionario dil ULI me opinionas ke le amba esas bona. > Evidente la televiziono, la *radiofono (o *radiodifuzo), la jurnalaro e nun > Internet esas komunikili amasala (o mediato segun mea unesma propozo ) ed > olua produkturi stokesas en *mediateki per diski, filmi, e.c. Nun me kredas komprenar to quon vu intencas dicar. Pri vua questiono, me kredas ke "radiofonar" esus nekorekta, nam onu darfas derivar nemediate verbo de substantivo (t.e.: sen adjunto di sufixo) nur kande la substantivo signifikas ago o stando, e "radiofono" esas nek to nek co. Parenteze, ni ja havas la vorto "mediata", ed olua kontreajo, forsan plu konocata: "nemediata" (A: immediate, H: inmediato). Ta vortin uzas la KGD, en l'expresuri "derivado mediata" e "derivado nemediata" quale me ipsa exemplifis en ica paragrafo. Nu, koncerne la radiofono e la televiziono, quale onu tradukas la vorto "A: programme (o kelkafoye: "show"), H: programa"? To esas, singla filmo, fiktivajo, *nuvelo/novumo-reporto, edc., qui difuzesas per radiofono od per televiziono? La vorto "programo" semblas havar altra signifiko en Ido, nome "A e H: plan". Vi omna standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1490 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91771 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2005 18:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2005 18:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2005 18:10:50 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59AEF2524A; Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:10:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.6.13]); Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:10:37 +0100 Message-ID: <41ED5117.7030909@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:10:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 174 (julio - septembro 1954) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Cafoye me enretigis: Progreso 174 (julio - septembro 1954) - 2.136 kB Kontenajo: - La Ido-transkribo di antiqua greka nomi - Sexton, B.C. - La unesma yari - R�hnisch, Ewald - La disputo (Traduko - originala autoro: Paul Dahlke) - Ni vivas per manjar (2) - Rylander, Axel - Linguala Suplemento; numero 35 - Akademio di Ido - La kakatuo rozea - Sweetlove, Tom (Traduko - originala autoro: Po h�-i) - La siorino e la pigo - Sweetlove, Tom (Traduko) - Epigramo - Sweetlove, Tom (Traduko - originala autoro: Archias) - La leondento - Boer, S. de - Moderna uzo dil sanskrita linguo en India - La honor-prezidero dil Uniono - Lalande, Andr� - Ido-kroniko - Gou�x, Victor - In memoriam; Jean Laurent (1876-1954) Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 16-1-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1491 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39544 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 11:18:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 11:18:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 11:18:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2005 11:18:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2005 11:18:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:18:32 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2281 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Amiki, Me volas savor, quale Idistaro solvos mea problemo, qua konser= nas vorto "Finlandana". Me preferas "Fina" kande on parolas pri linguo o l= ingual afero. En Finlando esas du oficala lingui: Sueda linguo e Fin(landa= n)a linguo. Amba esas Finlandana lingui. Nasko di Fin(landan)a-linguala al= ta-kulturo e mem literala uzo di Fin(landan)a linguo esas en agi di progre= siva elito Sueda-linguala di Finlando dum 19ma yarcento. Pro lo preske omn= a objekti e kazi en Finlando esis unesme en Sueda linguo. Uzante nur vorto= "Finlandana" ni ne povas separar necesa senci. Exemplo: Unesma Finlandan= a jurnalo publikigesis ye 1771 en Sueda. Unesma Fina jurnalo publikigesis = ye 1776. =96 Ka me devus hike skribar "unesma Finlandana jurnalo en Finlan= dana linguo publikigesis..."? Me pensas, ke "Finlandana" konsernas aferi d= i lando, areo di Finlando: - Finlandana lingui esas Fina e Sueda. (Komparez= : Kanadana lingui esas Angla e Franca.) - Matrolinguo di ula Finlandano es= as sive Fina sive Sueda. - Kyllikki e Ragnhild esas Finlandanini e Jorma e = B=F6rje Finlandanuli. (Kyllikki e Jorma esas Fina nomi, Ragnhild e B=F6rje= esas Sueda nomi). Do "Fina" konsernus aferi e kazi sen ula lando, areo: = - On parolas Fina linguo anke en Suedia e Rusia. - Fini lojas en Australia.= (Tala homi esas populani di Australia, ne di Finlando. Komparez: Finlanda= ni / populani di Finlando lojas en Australia.) - Fina-linguala literaturo e= sas yuna (ne: Finlandana-linguala literaturo!). Ca plu kurta vorto-formo e= sas posibla pro ke "Finlando" esas "lando di Fini". Samamaniere "Irlando" = esas "lando di Iri". Do ni povas parolar pri "Ira linguo, Iro, Irulo, Irin= o", e dicar, ke "Irlandana lingui esas Angla ed Ira". Altra afero esas Ned= erlando, Islando, Grenlando (edc?). Nederlando ne esas "lando di Nederi", = ma "neder" (basa) lando, Islando ne esas "lando di Isi", ma glaciala lando= , Grenlando esas "lando quo esas `gren' (verda)". Talakaze ni devas uzar l= onga formi Nederlandana, Islandana, Grenlandana (o plu estimante: Inuita?)= . Questinas Arto, Fino de Finlando. P.S. Me ja skribis en Wikipedio pri F= ina linguo ( http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fina linguo ) ma tillore nulu op= ozis la rubriko. (Wikipedio bezonas revizanti e skribanti!) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1492 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77946 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 12:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 12:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 12:54:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:54:42 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 213.166.17.22 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:53:48 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:53:48 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2005 12:54:42.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B6669D0:01C4FE26] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.19 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Arto En Novial, Jespersen solvis(?) la problemo per: fini - nia 'finar', finni - nia 'finlandana' Ma en Ido, ni ne darfas uzar duopla konsonanti. Segun me, 'Finlandana' funcionas tote bone por la homi e la linguo di vua lando. La Sueda linguo es... la Sueda. Tamen, me tre respektas vua opiniono kom nacionano di Finlando. L'opinioni di nacionani importas. Exemple, me ipsa preferas 'Britana' kam 'Britaniana', e tale uzas l'unesma. Linguala saluti Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College >From: "Arto Moisio" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] Finlandana >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:18:32 -0000 > > > >Kar Amiki, > >Me volas savor, quale Idistaro solvos mea problemo, qua konsernas vorto >"Finlandana". Me preferas "Fina" kande on parolas pri linguo o lingual >afero. > >En Finlando esas du oficala lingui: Sueda linguo e Fin(landan)a linguo. >Amba >esas Finlandana lingui. Nasko di Fin(landan)a-linguala alta-kulturo e mem >literala uzo di Fin(landan)a linguo esas en agi di progresiva elito >Sueda-linguala di Finlando dum 19ma yarcento. Pro lo preske omna objekti e >kazi en Finlando esis unesme en Sueda linguo. Uzante nur vorto "Finlandana" >ni >ne povas separar necesa senci. > >Exemplo: Unesma Finlandana jurnalo publikigesis ye 1771 en Sueda. Unesma >Fina jurnalo publikigesis ye 1776. � Ka me devus hike skribar "unesma >Finlandana jurnalo en Finlandana linguo publikigesis..."? > >Me pensas, ke "Finlandana" konsernas aferi di lando, areo di Finlando: >- Finlandana lingui esas Fina e Sueda. (Komparez: Kanadana lingui esas >Angla e >Franca.) >- Matrolinguo di ula Finlandano esas sive Fina sive Sueda. >- Kyllikki e Ragnhild esas Finlandanini e Jorma e B�rje Finlandanuli. >(Kyllikki >e Jorma esas Fina nomi, Ragnhild e B�rje esas Sueda nomi). > >Do "Fina" konsernus aferi e kazi sen ula lando, areo: >- On parolas Fina linguo anke en Suedia e Rusia. >- Fini lojas en Australia. (Tala homi esas populani di Australia, ne di >Finlando. >Komparez: Finlandani / populani di Finlando lojas en Australia.) >- Fina-linguala literaturo esas yuna (ne: Finlandana-linguala literaturo!). > >Ca plu kurta vorto-formo esas posibla pro ke "Finlando" esas "lando di >Fini". >Samamaniere "Irlando" esas "lando di Iri". Do ni povas parolar pri "Ira >linguo, >Iro, Irulo, Irino", e dicar, ke "Irlandana lingui esas Angla ed Ira". > >Altra afero esas Nederlando, Islando, Grenlando (edc?). Nederlando ne esas >"lando di Nederi", ma "neder" (basa) lando, Islando ne esas "lando di Isi", >ma >glaciala lando, Grenlando esas "lando quo esas `gren' (verda)". Talakaze ni >devas uzar longa formi Nederlandana, Islandana, Grenlandana (o plu >estimante: >Inuita?). > >Questinas Arto, Fino de Finlando. > >P.S. Me ja skribis en Wikipedio pri Fina linguo ( >http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fina linguo ) ma tillore nulu opozis la >rubriko. >(Wikipedio bezonas revizanti e skribanti!) > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1493 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17796 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 17:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 17:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp7.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.24) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 17:40:57 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0703.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3E930100008B for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:40:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf0701 (wwinf0701 [172.22.138.28]) by mwinf0703.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 2B1AB100008A for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:40:56 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20050119174056176.2B1AB100008A@mwinf0703.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <12119061.1106156456163.JavaMail.www@wwinf0701> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:40:56 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.24 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar Arto e James, En Franca ni havas la vorto "finnois". Ka la vorto *Finia= povus solvar la problemo di Arto ? Ka la vorto *Britanika vice Britaniana = pri la franca vorto "Britannique" povus satisfar James quale existas kom Am= erika e Jamaika pri la franca vorti "Am=E9rique" e "Jama=EFque"? Saluti a = *finiani e *britaniki Lo=EFk > Message du 19/01/05 13:54 > De : "James= Chandler" > A : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie =E0 : > Objet : RE: = [linguo] Finlandana > > > Kar Arto > > En Novial, Jespersen solvis(?) la= problemo per: fini - nia 'finar', finni - > nia 'finlandana' > Ma en Ido,= ni ne darfas uzar duopla konsonanti. > Segun me, 'Finlandana' funcionas to= te bone por la homi e la linguo di vua > lando. La Sueda linguo es... la S= ueda. > Tamen, me tre respektas vua opiniono kom nacionano di Finlando. L'o= pinioni > di nacionani importas. Exemple, me ipsa preferas 'Britana' kam = > 'Britaniana', e tale uzas l'unesma. > > Linguala saluti > > Kordiale, J= ames Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs i= ndex > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://grou= ps.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > > "Everyone likes connectivi= ty, not everyone can handle the content flows." - > Thomas Barnett, US Nav= al War College > > > > > >From: "Arto Moisio" > >Reply-To: linguolisto= @yahoogroups.com > >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [linguo] Fi= nlandana > >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:18:32 -0000 > > > > > > > >Kar Amiki,= > > > >Me volas savor, quale Idistaro solvos mea problemo, qua konsernas v= orto > >"Finlandana". Me preferas "Fina" kande on parolas pri linguo o ling= ual > >afero. > > > >En Finlando esas du oficala lingui: Sueda linguo e Fi= n(landan)a linguo. > >Amba > >esas Finlandana lingui. Nasko di Fin(landan)= a-linguala alta-kulturo e mem > >literala uzo di Fin(landan)a linguo esas e= n agi di progresiva elito > >Sueda-linguala di Finlando dum 19ma yarcento. = Pro lo preske omna objekti e > >kazi en Finlando esis unesme en Sueda lingu= o. Uzante nur vorto "Finlandana" > >ni > >ne povas separar necesa senci. >= > > >Exemplo: Unesma Finlandana jurnalo publikigesis ye 1771 en Sueda. Une= sma > >Fina jurnalo publikigesis ye 1776. =96 Ka me devus hike skribar "une= sma > >Finlandana jurnalo en Finlandana linguo publikigesis..."? > > > >Me = pensas, ke "Finlandana" konsernas aferi di lando, areo di Finlando: > >- Fi= nlandana lingui esas Fina e Sueda. (Komparez: Kanadana lingui esas > >Angl= a e > >Franca.) > >- Matrolinguo di ula Finlandano esas sive Fina sive Sued= a. > >- Kyllikki e Ragnhild esas Finlandanini e Jorma e B=F6rje Finlandanul= i. > >(Kyllikki > >e Jorma esas Fina nomi, Ragnhild e B=F6rje esas Sueda n= omi). > > > >Do "Fina" konsernus aferi e kazi sen ula lando, areo: > >- On = parolas Fina linguo anke en Suedia e Rusia. > >- Fini lojas en Australia. (= Tala homi esas populani di Australia, ne di > >Finlando. > >Komparez: Finl= andani / populani di Finlando lojas en Australia.) > >- Fina-linguala liter= aturo esas yuna (ne: Finlandana-linguala literaturo!). > > > >Ca plu kurta = vorto-formo esas posibla pro ke "Finlando" esas "lando di > >Fini". > >Sam= amaniere "Irlando" esas "lando di Iri". Do ni povas parolar pri "Ira > >li= nguo, > >Iro, Irulo, Irino", e dicar, ke "Irlandana lingui esas Angla ed Ir= a". > > > >Altra afero esas Nederlando, Islando, Grenlando (edc?). Nederlan= do ne esas > >"lando di Nederi", ma "neder" (basa) lando, Islando ne esas "= lando di Isi", > >ma > >glaciala lando, Grenlando esas "lando quo esas `gr= en' (verda)". Talakaze ni > >devas uzar longa formi Nederlandana, Islandana= , Grenlandana (o plu > >estimante: > >Inuita?). > > > >Questinas Arto, Fin= o de Finlando. > > > >P.S. Me ja skribis en Wikipedio pri Fina linguo ( > >= http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fina linguo ) ma tillore nulu opozis la > >ru= briko. > >(Wikipedio bezonas revizanti e skribanti!) [Non-text portions of= this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1494 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53130 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 23:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2005 23:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO miner.numericable.net) (80.236.3.113) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2005 23:39:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 3665 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2005 23:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by miner.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Jan 2005 23:39:23 -0000 Message-ID: <002401c4fe80$d5580140$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:44:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.113 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Helpo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara samideani, Me deziras tradukar en Ido : F: personnaliser A : to customize ( donar originala personala karaktero ad ulo ) Predanko por vua helpo Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1495 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62940 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 06:38:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2005 06:38:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2005 06:38:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2005 06:37:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2005 06:37:57 -0000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:37:56 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002401c4fe80$d5580140$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 337 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Helpo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Loic, vu skribis: > Me deziras tradukar en Ido : > F: personnaliser A : to customize ( donar originala personala karaktero ad ulo ) Me pensas ke person.al.ig.ar esas apta tradukuro por ta vorto, nam pro sua "etimologio" olu signifikas "igar (ye) personala" od "igar (ye) relatanta la persono" Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1496 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46265 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 11:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2005 11:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp12.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.20) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2005 11:05:48 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1203.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E88861C000C3 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:05:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from wwinf1201 (wwinf1201 [172.22.143.28]) by mwinf1203.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E37C91C000C1 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:05:47 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20050120110547932.E37C91C000C1@mwinf1203.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <29413178.1106219147917.JavaMail.www@wwinf1201> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:05:47 +0100 (CET) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 193.252.22.20 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Helpo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Danko Eduardo pro vua helpo. Me konkordas kun vua propozo pri ca vorti qua = ne esas en la dicionarii Franca-Ido di L.Couturat e de Beaufront e Angla-Id= o di Dyer. Amikala saluti Loik > Message du 20/01/05 07:38 > De : "Edu= ardo A. Rodi" > A : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie =E0 : > Objet : [= linguo] Re: Helpo > > > > Kara Loic, vu skribis: > > > Me deziras tradu= kar en Ido : > > F: personnaliser A : to customize ( donar originala person= ala > karaktero ad ulo ) > > Me pensas ke person.al.ig.ar esas apta tradu= kuro por ta vorto, nam > pro sua "etimologio" olu signifikas "igar (ye) pe= rsonala" od "igar > (ye) relatanta la persono" > > Standez bone. > > Edu= ardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1497 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42414 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 18:18:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2005 18:18:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2005 18:18:19 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EE55F00F; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:18:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.6.13]); Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:18:17 +0100 Message-ID: <41EFF5E3.301@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:18:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 1 (marto 1908) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Ca-foye me enretigis: Progreso 1 (marto 1908) - 1.634 kB (en Esperanto Primitiva (Esperanto) e Esperanto Reformita (Ido)) - Nia programo - L. Couturat & L. Leau - Deklaro de S-ro Prof. Otto Jespersen - Otto Jespersen - Raporto pri la laboroj de la konstanta komisio - L. Couturat & L. Leau - Kroniko - Bibliografio (libri/jurnali) - Korespondo - Louis Couturat - Gramatiko - Lexiko di la gramatikala vorti - Deklaro de Ido Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 16-1-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1498 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21727 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 22:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2005 22:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2005 22:27:22 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.142.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.142] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1Crklt-000Emf-3B for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:27:21 +0000 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:25:37 GMT Message-ID: <2005120222537.751262@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.92 From: Robert Subject: Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Arto, Me konsentas, ke ni bezonas povar distingar la linguo Finlandan= a qua ne esas Sueda de la linguo Finlandana qua esas Sueda. Pri Irlando, s= egun libro quan me konsultas ("Dictionary of proper names" da Adrian Room),= la nomo Anglalingue "Ireland" signifikas forsan "westa lando" (de "iar"), = forsan "fero-lando" (de "iarunn"). La libro mencionas ke Irlando havas Lati= na nomo, "Hibernia" (formo koruptita de "Iverna"), e mem du poeziala nomi, = "Erin" ed "Innisfail". La linguo di Irlando, altra kam ta qua esas Angla, = esas la Irlandana sorto di la *Gaela linguo. Altra sorto esas parolata (da = poka personi) en Skotia. Do, me votas kontre "Ira" (ma por "Gaela"), e por= "Fina". Semblas ke esas la sequanta posibla equivalanti: Ido: *Fina A: Fi= nnish F: finnois G: finnisch H: finland=E9s, fin=E9s [Tamen, ka ta du vorti= esas sinonimi, quale mea vortaro indikas?] I: finnico R: finskiy Esas sim= ila problemo od aspekto pri ula altra nomi por lingui o populi. Exemple, *T= aii o *Tayi habitas landi altra kam Siam (*Tailando); la *Bulgari existis a= nte fondo di Bulgaria, e do ante ke existis Bulgariani. Kordiale, Robert.= _______________ Arto Moisio skribis: Me pensas, ke "Finlandana" konserna= s {koncernas} aferi di lando, areo di Finlando: - Finlandana lingui esas Fi= na e Sueda. (Komparez: Kanadana lingui esas Angla e Franca.) - Matrolinguo = di ula Finlandano esas sive Fina sive Sueda. ... ... Ca plu kurta vorto-f= ormo esas posibla pro ke "Finlando" esas "lando di Fini". Samamaniere "Irla= ndo" esas "lando di Iri". Do ni povas parolar pri "Ira linguo, Iro, Irulo, = Irino", e dicar, ke "Irlandana lingui esas Angla ed Ira". From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1499 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96908 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 22:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2005 22:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kernighan.numericable.net) (80.236.3.114) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2005 22:49:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 898 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2005 22:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by kernighan.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 20 Jan 2005 22:49:24 -0000 Message-ID: <004f01c4ff43$03d503c0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:54:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.114 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Problemo kun linguolisto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Depos la 30ma di novembro 2004 kande me sendas mesajo a linguolisto me konstatas l'aparo de mesajo identa a mea sendita da mail@e.pagenet.ca e kun la sequanta texto : Subscriber catesrt is not a valid subscriber. Check the number and try again. Your Message/Votre Message: > Fr:LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr ... Quon me povas facar por ke ca mesajo ne plu aparar ? Predanko pro vua helpo Kordiale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1500 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59690 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 05:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 05:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 05:48:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 05:48:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 05:48:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:48:03 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005120222537.751262@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 574 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.49 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Robert, vu skribis: > Semblas ke esas la sequanta posibla equivalant= i: > Ido: *Fina > A: Finnish > F: finnois > G: finnisch > H: finland=E9s, f= in=E9s [Tamen, ka ta du vorti esas sinonimi, quale mea vortaro indikas?] (= ...) Yes. Amba vorti es sinonimi perfekte interchanjebla, tam por la adje= ktivo (e substantivo) nacionala kam por la linguo. Lo sama valoras por "da= n=E9s" e "dinamarqu=E9s", por l'Angla "Danish". Quankam, la vorti "finland= =E9s" e "dan=E9s" semblas esar multe plu freque uzata por omna signifiki k= am sua sinonimi. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1501 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19762 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 05:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 05:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 05:54:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 05:54:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2005 05:54:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:54:25 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004f01c4ff43$03d503c0$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 772 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.20 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Problemo kun linguolisto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Loic, Anke me recevas la sama mesajo irgekande me sendas mesaji a Linguolisto. Me simple ignoras li, e me agis por ke irga mesajo venanta de ta adreso esez konsiderata kom "Mesajo ne dezirata", e do efacata pos kelka dii. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. Mesajo Originala: > Depos la 30ma di novembro 2004 kande me sendas mesajo a linguolisto me konstatas l'aparo de mesajo identa a mea sendita da mail@e... > e kun la sequanta texto : > > Subscriber catesrt is not a > valid subscriber. Check the number and try again. > > Your Message/Votre Message: > > Fr:LOIC.LANDAIS@w... > ... > > Quon me povas facar por ke ca mesajo ne plu aparar ? > > Predanko pro vua helpo > > Kordiale > Loik > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1502 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73958 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 15:40:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 15:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep19-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.20) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 15:40:24 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep19-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.05 201-2131-111-107-20040910) with SMTP id <20050121154010.IBMH16287.amsfep19-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:40:10 +0100 Message-ID: <01e301c4ffcf$40709650$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Cc: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:38:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.20 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: "mogola" o "moNgola"? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara amiki, Me revizas, de tempo a tempo, kelka skribita pagini che Wikipedio, e konstatis du-foye "mogola". To esas posibla, se ol es linguo parolata dum regno da "mogol" (ka "mogul"?). Mea questioni: Ka koncernas skrib-eroro, o ne (forsan on vizas "moNgola")? Ka la tipo di regnanto en olima India nomesas "mogul"/"mogol"? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1503 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5574 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 17:51:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 17:51:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp05.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.145) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 17:51:53 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp5.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81FDA92D2; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:51:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.6.13]); Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:51:48 +0100 Message-ID: <41F1412F.6080008@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:51:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.145 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 130 (oktobro - decembro 1940) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Ca-foye me enretigis: Progreso 130 (oktobro - decembro 1940) - 877 kB Kontenajo: - Perseverar ! - Kreis-Schneeberger, J. - Poezio en Ido; Pro quo ne? - Harding, Robert - Konsili atencinda - Pesch, Marcel - Edituri - Tra la Mondo Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 16-1-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1504 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46603 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2005 21:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2005 21:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.18) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2005 21:03:54 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep20-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with SMTP id <20050121210349.JHHV1891.amsfep20-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:03:49 +0100 Message-ID: <026601c4fffc$7760ca90$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:02:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.18 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Arto Moisio, Lektinte vua mesajo ed expliko, me devas konfesar ke me nulafoye pensis pri to talamaniere. Efektive, se vu explikas omno talamaniere, vu es justa. Anke Nederlandane on dicas "Fin" e "Finnen" (risp. singulare e plurale) qui lojas en "Finland". L' adjektivo es "Fins" (de Finse fabrikant Nokia). Fakte, ol es traktata same kam "Rus", "Bask", "Ier", "Thai", "Zwitser" (Suiso, qua lojas en "Zwitserland", Suisia), "Duitser" (Germano, qua lojas en "Duitsland", Germania), "de Engelsen" (l' Angli, qui lojas en "Engeland", Anglia), "Schot" (Skoto en "Schotland), "de Fransen" (la Franci, en "Frankrijk"), edc. edc. Do, fakte, me kredas ke es nula objeciono adoptar "Fino" e "Finia" kom Ido-vorti por vua lando e landani. Me esperas ke la Sekretario di Linguala Questioni insertez la propozo en la listo di nova vorti. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kar Amiki, Me volas savor, quale Idistaro solvos mea problemo, qua konsernas vorto "Finlandana". Me preferas "Fina" kande on parolas pri linguo o lingual afero. En Finlando esas du oficala lingui: Sueda linguo e Fin(landan)a linguo. Amba esas Finlandana lingui. Nasko di Fin(landan)a-linguala alta-kulturo e mem literala uzo di Fin(landan)a linguo esas en agi di progresiva elito Sueda-linguala di Finlando dum 19ma yarcento. Pro lo preske omna objekti e kazi en Finlando esis unesme en Sueda linguo. Uzante nur vorto "Finlandana" ni ne povas separar necesa senci. Exemplo: Unesma Finlandana jurnalo publikigesis ye 1771 en Sueda. Unesma Fina jurnalo publikigesis ye 1776. - Ka me devus hike skribar "unesma Finlandana jurnalo en Finlandana linguo publikigesis..."? Me pensas, ke "Finlandana" konsernas aferi di lando, areo di Finlando: - Finlandana lingui esas Fina e Sueda. (Komparez: Kanadana lingui esas Angla e Franca.) - Matrolinguo di ula Finlandano esas sive Fina sive Sueda. - Kyllikki e Ragnhild esas Finlandanini e Jorma e B�rje Finlandanuli. (Kyllikki e Jorma esas Fina nomi, Ragnhild e B�rje esas Sueda nomi). Do "Fina" konsernus aferi e kazi sen ula lando, areo: - On parolas Fina linguo anke en Suedia e Rusia. - Fini lojas en Australia. (Tala homi esas populani di Australia, ne di Finlando. Komparez: Finlandani / populani di Finlando lojas en Australia.) - Fina-linguala literaturo esas yuna (ne: Finlandana-linguala literaturo!). Ca plu kurta vorto-formo esas posibla pro ke "Finlando" esas "lando di Fini". Samamaniere "Irlando" esas "lando di Iri". Do ni povas parolar pri "Ira linguo, Iro, Irulo, Irino", e dicar, ke "Irlandana lingui esas Angla ed Ira". Altra afero esas Nederlando, Islando, Grenlando (edc?). Nederlando ne esas "lando di Nederi", ma "neder" (basa) lando, Islando ne esas "lando di Isi", ma glaciala lando, Grenlando esas "lando quo esas `gren' (verda)". Talakaze ni devas uzar longa formi Nederlandana, Islandana, Grenlandana (o plu estimante: Inuita?). Questinas Arto, Fino de Finlando. P.S. Me ja skribis en Wikipedio pri Fina linguo ( http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fina linguo ) ma tillore nulu opozis la rubriko. (Wikipedio bezonas revizanti e skribanti!) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1505 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98800 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2005 20:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2005 20:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2005 20:53:36 -0000 Received: from gr.189.167.169.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.167.169] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CtXgn-000J4B-VD for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:53:34 +0000 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:53:36 GMT Message-ID: <2005125205336.943492@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.52 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] "mogola" o "moNgola"? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Hans, En la Angla, la vorto "Mogul", o min ofte "Mughal", signifikas "Mong= ol" o "Mongolian" (en Ido: Mongoliano) ma precipue un di la sequanti di Bab= er, la konquestinto di India (1483-1530) e fondanto dil *Mogula Imperio ibe= , o membro di la dinastio di (Islamista) Indiana imperiestri fondita en 152= 6. La Angla vorto "Mogul" venas de la Persiana vorto, "Mughul" (Mongoliano= ). Pos generacioni en India, li evidente ne esis ankore Mongoliani, do sem= blas ke ni bezonas aparta vorto por li e lia imperio, exemple *Mogula. Nov= a dicionario (2004) mem mencionas la sequanta pagini interretala: www.wikip= edia.org/wiki/Mogul_Empire www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Mogul-Empire = Kurioze, segun un dicionario, "Mogul" esas anke nomo aplikata al maxim bona= qualeso di lud-karti. Sen mayuskulo, "mogul" signifikas persono influema (= simila a magnato). Tote nekonektita senco di "mogul" (forsan de la Norvegi= ana vorto "muge" =3D amaso) esas amaso de harda nivo qua esas obstaklo por = ski-glitanti. Plusa senco esas evento od okaziono kande personi ski-glitas = ube esas tala obstakli. Ankore lernante, Robert. ______________ H. Stui= fbergen skribis: > >=A0Kara amiki, > >=A0Me revizas, de tempo a tempo, kelk= a skribita pagini che Wikipedio, >=A0e konstatis du-foye "mogola". To esas = posibla, se ol es linguo >=A0parolata dum regno da "mogol" (ka "mogul"?). >= >=A0Mea questioni: > >=A0Ka koncernas skrib-eroro, o ne (forsan on vizas "= moNgola")? Ka la >=A0tipo di regnanto en olima India nomesas "mogul"/"mogol= "? > >=A0Saluti amikala, > >=A0Hans St. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1506 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29168 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2005 21:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2005 21:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2005 21:24:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:24:11 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.70 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:23:33 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:23:33 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jan 2005 21:24:11.0059 (UTC) FILETIME=[8AE29030:01C504B6] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.28 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: [ido-wikipedio] Komoros e Maldives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Komoros e Maldives ne trovesas en mea refer-libri. Kara Linguolistani, Che Wikipedio ni bezonas korekta nomi di ca insuli. Predanko pro via helpo! >From: "Arto Moisio" >Reply-To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido-wikipedio] Komoros e Maldives >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:00:41 -0000 > > > >Kara James, > >Vu skribas pri chefurbi e landi, ka ne? > >Me pensas, ke Komoros e Maldives esas plurala formo dil Angla (edc.). >Kad oli devas esar en Ido "Komori" e "Maldivi" (o "Maledivi")? Lektez, >quon me skribis en relatanta debato-pagini che Wikipedio. Me ja >skribis pri Maledivi ante Vu. > >Amikale Arto Moisio > > > > > > >Ido Wikipedio : >http://io.wikipedia.org/ >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1507 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43169 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2005 00:00:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2005 00:00:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp08.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.149) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2005 00:00:03 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp8.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6A2E5B427; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:00:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41FAD203.3040705@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:00:03 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.149 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 108 (oktobro 1935) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Ca-foye me enretigis: Progreso 108 (oktobro 1935) - 2.495 kB Kontenajo: - Louis Couturat parolas - Couturat, Louis - La eduko di blinda e surdamuta puerino - Forchhammer, G - Regardez tua vicino - Nova forci en la Ido-movado (Raporto pri la kongreso) - Jacob, Heinz - Pri la kancero-problemo - Csatkai, J. (Traduko) - Nova Yaro che ni e la altri - Franck, Wilhelm (Traduko) - Nova horizonti - Barral, Jean - Jurnal-raporti - Reflekti pri la dio - Me lernas Ido, triesma letro - Mikra enciklopedio dil L.I. - Cornioley, Hans - Oficala informi - ULI - Financi - ULI - Tra la mondo Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1508 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44493 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2005 15:07:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2005 15:07:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.18) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2005 15:07:49 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:07:06 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:06:54 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:06:54 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jan 2005 15:07:06.0148 (UTC) FILETIME=[32369E40:01C50614] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.18 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido-wikipedio] Komoros e Maldives X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Arto Me chanjis ica nomi a Komori e Maldivi, segun vua propozo. Me anke chanjis Kuweit a Kuwait, segun la Lexiko di Nova Vorti da R. Carnaghan. Fakte ca Lexiko kontenas multa lando-nomi ed es generale helpiva - danko a Robert pro lua laboro linguala. La listo di chefurbi es nun kompleta, ma me ankore prilaboras l'artikleti: http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chefurbi Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College >From: "Arto Moisio" >Reply-To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido-wikipedio] Komoros e Maldives >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:00:41 -0000 > > > >Kara James, > >Vu skribas pri chefurbi e landi, ka ne? > >Me pensas, ke Komoros e Maldives esas plurala formo dil Angla (edc.). >Kad oli devas esar en Ido "Komori" e "Maldivi" (o "Maledivi")? Lektez, >quon me skribis en relatanta debato-pagini che Wikipedio. Me ja >skribis pri Maledivi ante Vu. > >Amikale Arto Moisio > > > > > > >Ido Wikipedio : >http://io.wikipedia.org/ >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1509 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26412 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2005 13:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2005 13:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.25) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2005 13:06:00 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:06:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 195.92.67.75 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:05:00 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:05:00 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jan 2005 13:06:00.0433 (UTC) FILETIME=[71EC3E10:01C506CC] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.25 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Ka Minsk es la chefurbo di Belarus, Belarusia, o Bielorusia? Ka Sarajevo o Sarayevo? Predanko Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home "Everyone likes connectivity, not everyone can handle the content flows." - Thomas Barnett, US Naval War College From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1510 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30781 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2005 19:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2005 19:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2005 19:29:43 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E007B199DC; Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:29:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.8.2]); Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:29:43 +0100 Message-ID: <41FD35A1.2020100@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:29:37 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 194.134.35.146 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 167 (julio - septembro 1952) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Ca-foye me enretigis: Progreso 167 (julio - septembro 1952) - 1.629 kB Kontenajo: - La mento dil Infanti - Jacob, Heinz (Traduko - originala autoro: Maria Montessori) - Nekrologio - Petrus Marcilla (1875-1952) - Ferreres, Joaquin - Nekrologio - Petrus Marcilla (1875-1952) - Kreis-Schneeberger, J. - Linguala Suplemento (numero 29) - Akedemio di Ido - La unesma artisti - Jacob, Elizabeth M. - De mondolinguala notolibreto - Emil Ambros evas 80 yari - Decidi oficala di Akademio di Ido - Akedemio di Ido - Ido Kroniko - Gou�x, Victor Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 28-1-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1511 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17040 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 01:40:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 01:40:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 01:40:38 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E4FF34FA for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:10:12 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10601-10 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:10:01 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5D4D934FF; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:10:00 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483AE34FA for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:10:00 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:10:00 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara amiki, Longatempe (de 28 octobro) mea ligo a la Internet ne funcionis. Nun fine me povas respondar. Ye Sun, 30 Jan 2005, James Chandler skribis: > Ka Minsk es la chefurbo di Belarus, Belarusia, o Bielorusia? > Ka Sarajevo o Sarayevo? La litero "e" di la Rusa alfabeto, kande (e nur kande) ol portas la acento, pronuncesas "ye". Do, Ido "no" esas "net" (en la literi di la alfabeto), ma on audas "nyet". Anke, Rusa Idisti skribas "Sovet" ma altri skribas "Soviet". Ma la "i" esas konsonanta: on audas "sav-yet'ski" kun la acento sur la "e". La litero "o" di la Rusa alfabeto, kande (e nur kande) ol portas la acento, pronuncesas kom Ido "u" / Angla "oo" (o forsan "o" - hike me povas erorar). Kande ol NE portas la acento, ol pronuncesas quaze Ido kurta "a" / sud-Angla kurta "u". En "Pocciya" la "o" NE portas la accento, e do ni audas "Rasiya" (Ido), "Russiya" (Angla), de qua on obtenas la Anga tradukuro "Russia". (Do, supere, "sav-yetski" e ne "sov-yetski".) Ma en "Poccki" la "o" portas la acento e do on audas "Ruski" (Ido) / "Rooski" (Angla). "Belo" esas Rusa adjektivo qua signifikas Ido "blanka". La "e" portas la acento, la "o" ne portas la acento, e do on audas "byela". Byela Rusia, de anciena tempo, nomesis "White Russia" en la Angla. To esas la signifiko qua omna habitanti di ta lando (me sentas kom certa) audas e sustenas. Pri la "rus" di la abreviuro "Belorus", me nule savas, excepte: se indijene on skribas "belopocc" e se la "e" portas la acento, la Ido povas esar "Byelaras". Nur arbitriale on povas selektar inter "Byelarus" e "Byelorus". Plu simple, Ido povas, tote juste, usar la tradukuro "Blanka Rusia". Pri la duesma questiono, ka "jes" o "yes", la decido ne semblas a me desfacila. Certena lingui tote ne distingas inter "I" e "J" pri la Ido "I". En ta lingui ol esas nur un litero, ma ol povas aspektar kom od "I" o "J". Ido sempre posible uzas "I" e tote nultempe permisas "J". Ma "I" forsan ne esas maxim bona pri "Saraievo". La "i" semblas konsonanta. Do la Ido versiono esas "Sarayevo". Anke on darfas skribar "Saraievo", ma nultempe "Sarajevo" (ecepte se on volas chanjar la pronunco). Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1512 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1868 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 07:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 07:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 07:12:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2005 07:10:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2005 07:10:56 -0000 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:10:56 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 5141 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.37 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: kemiala elementi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara samideani, Me revizas poke la Tabelo di Kemiala Elementi por ke me facez certena regulozeso. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. LA KEMIALA ELEMENTI EN IDO Prof. Dro. Oswald agnoskis ke l'avantajo di internaciona linguo kom Ido esis la facila dissemado di ciencala deskovri, informi ed instrukti tra la mondo. Il facis tabelo di kemiala elementi en Ido, ma nun plura nova elementi trovesas specale en la grupo di artificala elementi (pos nombro 92). Tre recente, la maxim nova, nombro 111, recevas la nomo di Rentgenio Rg (1) (germane `Roentgenium', segun la nomo di la ciencisto Wilhelm Roentgen qua deskovris `X-Radii'). (1) La plu frua elementi havas Greka o Latina nomi qui transvivas en la simboli:- aurum Au (oro), cuprum Cu (kupro), hydrargyrum Hg (merkuro), stibium Sb (antimono). Fortunoze, Ido ofte uzas altra historiala nomi e simboli, p.e. arjento Ag, fero Fe. kalio K, natrio Na, stano Sn, e wolframo W. (2) Pro Ido espelado, certena nomi chanjis de C a K quankam la simbolo retenas la C (uzado inter-naciona), p.e. karbo C; kalcio Ca; kadmio Cd; kupro Cu, kloro Cl, e kobalto Co. (3) Quankam angla, franca e germana uzas la finalo "-ium" por metali (e helium), semblas saja ke Ido uzus la finalo `-io' quale en hispana e itala, nam Ido ja uzas la sufixo `-um'. Poka elementi ne povas uzar la finalo `-io', do Ra = radiumo ne radio, kuriumo ne kurio e forsan boriumo ne borio (boreo = norda vento). (4) Plura metali ne havas la finalo di A: `-ium', exemple: Mn, Fe, Co, Ni, Cu, Zn, Mo, Ag, Sn, Sb, Ta, W, Pt, Au, Hg, Pb, Bi, (mangano, fero, kobalto edc.), do en Ido la finalo esas `-o'. Tamen por la sequanta metali, me sugestas Magnezio, Vanadio, Yitrio, Rutenio, Telurio, Uranio, Kromio, Titanio, Selenio, nam la finalo `-io' remplasas A: `-ium', quankam Dro. Ostwald donas la finalo `-o'. (5). Anke me sugestas borono (B) ne boro,. quale argono, kriptono. xenono, radono, (nemetali). `Boro-` ja es radiko en Ido. (6) Me sugestas hidrogeno (ne hido), oxigeno (ne oxo) e nitrogeno (ne nitro) por regulozeso. En Francia, "azote" (sen vivo) = nitrogeno, ma fakte niitrogeno es esenca a vivo pro ke ol facas proteini, la kompozanti di celuli. La kurta formi ni vidas en la nomi di molekuli, p.e. `nitrobenzeno'. (7) Me agnoskas la helpo di la dicionarii di Dyer, Pesch, Esperanto, La tabelo da Dro. Ostwald. la Lexiki di Nova Vorti (1988, 2001), e mea propra sugesti por regulozeso. (1) En germana, "oe' ne es diftongo ma signifikas sono on ne trovas en Ido. En Esperanto la litero `x' ne existas, do "X-radii' es `rentgenradii'. Konseque en Ido semblas saja uzar `rentgenio'.por l'elemento. TABELO DI KEMIALA ELEMENTI. 1. *Hidrogeno H 56. Bario Ba 2. Helio He 57. Lantano La 3. Litio Li 58. Cerio Ce 4. Berilio Be 59. Prazeodimio Pr 5. *Borono B 60. Neodimio Nd 6. Karbo C 61. Prometio Pm 7. *Nitrogeno N 62. Samario Sm 8. *Oxigeno O 63. Europio Eu 9. Fluoro F 64. Gadolinio Gd 10. Neono Ne 65. Terbio Tb 11. Natrio Na 66. Disprozio Dy 12. *Magnezio Mg 67. Holmio Ho 13. Aluminio Al 68. Erbio Er 14. Siliko Si 69. Tulio Tm 15. Fosfo P 70. Yiterbio Yb !6. Sulfo S 71. Lutecio Lu 17. Kloro Cl 72 Hafnio Hf 18. Argono Ar 73 Tantalo Ta 19. Kalio K 74. Wolframo W 20. Kalcio Ca 75. Renio Re 21. Skandio Sc 76. Osmio Os 22.*Titanio Ti 77. Iridio Ir 23. *Vanadio V 78. Platino Pt 24.*KromioCr 79. Oro Au 25. Mangano Mn 80. *Merkuro Hg 26. Fero Fe 81. Talio Tl 27. Kobalto Co 82. Plombo Pb 28. Nikelo Ni 83. Bismuto Bi 29. Kupro Cu 84. Polonio Po 30. Zinko Zn 85. Astatino At 31. Galio Ga 86. Radono Rn 32. Germanio Ge 87. Francio Fr 33. Arseno As 88. *Radiumo Ra 34. *Selenio 89. Aktinio Ac 35. Bromo Br 90. Torio Th 36. Kriptono Kr 91. Protaktinio Pa 37. Rubidio Rb 92. *Uranio U 38. Stroncio Sr 93. Neptunio Np 39. *Yitrio Y 94. Plutonio Pu 40. Zirkonio Zr 95. Americio Am 41. Niobio Nb 96. *Kuriumo Cm 42. Molibdeno Mo 97. Berkelio Bk 43. Teknecio Tc 98. Kalifornio Cf 44. *Rutenio Ru 99. Einsteinio Es 45. Rodio Rh 100. Fermio Fm 46. Paladio Pd 101. Mendelevio Md 47. Arjento Ag 102. Nobelio No 48. Kadmio Cd 103. Laurencio Lr 49. Indio In 104. Ruterfordio Rf 50. Stano Sn 105. Dubnio Db 51. Antimono Sb 106. Seborgio Sg 52. *Telurio Te 107. *Boriumo Bh 53. Iodo I 108. Hasio Hs 54. Xenono Xe 109. Meitnerio Mt 55. Cesio Cs 110. Darmstatio Bs 111. Rentgenio Rg From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1513 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83965 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 15:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 15:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 15:04:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2005 15:03:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2005 15:03:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:03:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4397 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.40 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kar Amiki, Se ula linguo uzas Latin alfabeto, ni mustas uzar la vorto-for= mi latin-alfabetala di ula linguo anke en Ido, quankam esus difero en pron= unci inter Ido ed ula linguo. Do me pensas, ke ni mustas uzar formo "Saraj= evo" pro ke on uzas Latina literi en Bosnia-Hercegovina. Se ulu volas uzar= formo, quo semblas genuina soni en "Sarajevo", lu povas uzar temporale fo= rmo "Sarayevo" en Ido. La chanjo di "Sarajevo" a "Sarayevo" esus facila ma= fola. Quale on skribus por exemplo Germana nomi kam N=FCrnberg, L=FCbeck = o R=F6ntgen en Idala sistemo? Ka Nuernberg, Luebeck, Roentgen? En mea matr= ala linguo esas literi =E4, =F6 ed y (kam Germana =FC). Kad ni mustus uzar= por J=E4rvenp=E4=E4 (urbeto proxim Helsinki) la formo "Jaervenpaeae", pro= ke en Ido ne existas necesita literi? Proxim Turku, mea hemal urbo, esas = urbeto K=F6yli=F6. Kad ol esus "Koeuelioe" en Ido. Ed en Estona linguo uzes= as litero =F5, quo ne equivalas Portugala =F5, do li skribesus diferante e= n Ido (se ulu savus apta maniero). Exempli esus tre multa. Me pensas, ke s= e ulu ne povas produktar per komputoro diakritika signi, on mustus uzar nu= r bazala sen-diakritika literi, ne ula plusa literi pronuncinda. L' alfab= eto di Ido ne suficas, se ni ambicias monstrar diferanta soni dil naturala = lingui dil mondo. En mondo existas cirkume 6.000 lingui, e ni ne povas sav= ar quale ula vorto skribesas segun Idala pronunco-sistemo. Se ula linguo = uzas altra literi kam Latinala, exemple Kirilika, ni mustas transskribar v= orto-formi mekanikale. Se ni ambicias monstrar soni di Rusa linguo, la mikr= a alfabeto di Ido ne suficas. Altralatere se ni skribas, exemple Rusa vort= i, "per orelo", nur Rusa-savanta homi povus o darfus transskribar de Rusa = ad Ido. Pri "Bielorusia" me pensas ke "Belarus" esas plu korekta indijena = formo. Videz por exemple Belarusa posto-marki. Diferi inter pronunco-manie= ri dil (est-)slava lingui esas mikra, do esus bona tradukar la nomo aden I= do: "Blanka Rusia". Un nesolvita problemo esas, quale on transskribas "do= pa-i" di Rusa linguo en Ido. Ka litero "y" aptesas? (La "dopa-i" esas la k= inesma litero de fino dil Rusa alfabeto.) Amikale Arto Moisio > > Ye Sun= , 30 Jan 2005, James Chandler skribis: > > > Ka Minsk es la chefurbo di Be= larus, Belarusia, o Bielorusia? > > Ka Sarajevo o Sarayevo? > > La litero = "e" di la Rusa alfabeto, kande (e nur kande) ol portas la > acento, pronunc= esas "ye". Do, Ido "no" esas "net" (en la literi di la > alfabeto), ma on = audas "nyet". Anke, Rusa Idisti skribas "Sovet" ma > altri skribas "Soviet= ". Ma la "i" esas konsonanta: on audas > "sav-yet'ski" kun la acento sur l= a "e". > > La litero "o" di la Rusa alfabeto, kande (e nur kande) ol porta= s la > acento, pronuncesas kom Ido "u" / Angla "oo" (o forsan "o" - hike me= > povas erorar). Kande ol NE portas la acento, ol pronuncesas quaze Ido >= kurta "a" / sud-Angla kurta "u". En "Pocciya" la "o" NE portas la > accen= to, e do ni audas "Rasiya" (Ido), "Russiya" (Angla), de qua on > obtenas la= Anga tradukuro "Russia". (Do, supere, "sav-yetski" e ne > "sov-yetski".) = > > Ma en "Poccki" la "o" portas la acento e do on audas "Ruski" (Ido) / >= "Rooski" (Angla). > > "Belo" esas Rusa adjektivo qua signifikas Ido "blan= ka". La "e" portas > la acento, la "o" ne portas la acento, e do on audas = "byela". > > Byela Rusia, de anciena tempo, nomesis "White Russia" en la A= ngla. To > esas la signifiko qua omna habitanti di ta lando (me sentas kom= certa) > audas e sustenas. > > Pri la "rus" di la abreviuro "Belorus", me= nule savas, excepte: se > indijene on skribas "belopocc" e se la "e" porta= s la acento, la Ido > povas esar "Byelaras". > > Nur arbitriale on povas s= elektar inter "Byelarus" e "Byelorus". Plu > simple, Ido povas, tote juste= , usar la tradukuro "Blanka Rusia". > > Pri la duesma questiono, ka "jes" = o "yes", la decido ne semblas a me > desfacila. Certena lingui tote ne dis= tingas inter "I" e "J" pri la > Ido "I". En ta lingui ol esas nur un liter= o, ma ol povas aspektar kom > od "I" o "J". Ido sempre posible uzas "I" e t= ote nultempe permisas "J". > Ma "I" forsan ne esas maxim bona pri "Saraievo= ". La "i" semblas > konsonanta. Do la Ido versiono esas "Sarayevo". Anke= on darfas > skribar "Saraievo", ma nultempe "Sarajevo" (ecepte se on volas= chanjar > la pronunco). > > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1514 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23157 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.14) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:16:01 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 213.166.17.21 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:15:18 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:15:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jan 2005 17:16:01.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[899A12C0:01C507B8] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.14 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] kemiala elementi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Richard Danko pro la suba listo di kemiala elementi. Ica listo esos utila, me es certa, che Wikipedio. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna >From: "richsteven2000" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] kemiala elementi >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 07:10:56 -0000 > > > >Kara samideani, >Me revizas poke la Tabelo di Kemiala Elementi por ke me >facez certena regulozeso. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > >LA KEMIALA ELEMENTI EN IDO > >Prof. Dro. Oswald agnoskis ke l'avantajo di internaciona linguo kom >Ido esis la facila dissemado di ciencala deskovri, informi ed >instrukti tra la mondo. Il facis tabelo di kemiala elementi en Ido, >ma nun plura nova elementi trovesas specale en la grupo di >artificala elementi (pos nombro 92). Tre recente, la maxim nova, >nombro 111, recevas la nomo di Rentgenio Rg (1) >(germane `Roentgenium', segun la nomo di la ciencisto Wilhelm >Roentgen qua deskovris `X-Radii'). >(1) La plu frua elementi havas Greka o Latina nomi qui transvivas en >la simboli:- aurum Au (oro), cuprum Cu (kupro), hydrargyrum Hg >(merkuro), stibium Sb (antimono). Fortunoze, Ido ofte uzas altra >historiala nomi e simboli, p.e. arjento Ag, fero Fe. kalio K, natrio >Na, stano Sn, e wolframo W. >(2) Pro Ido espelado, certena nomi chanjis de C a K quankam la >simbolo retenas la C (uzado inter-naciona), p.e. karbo C; kalcio >Ca; kadmio Cd; kupro Cu, kloro Cl, e kobalto Co. >(3) Quankam angla, franca e germana uzas la finalo "-ium" por metali >(e helium), semblas saja ke Ido uzus la finalo `-io' quale en >hispana e itala, nam Ido ja uzas la sufixo `-um'. Poka elementi ne >povas uzar la finalo `-io', do Ra = radiumo ne radio, kuriumo ne >kurio e forsan boriumo ne borio (boreo = norda vento). >(4) Plura metali ne havas la finalo di A: `-ium', exemple: Mn, Fe, >Co, Ni, Cu, Zn, Mo, Ag, Sn, Sb, Ta, W, Pt, Au, Hg, Pb, Bi, (mangano, >fero, kobalto edc.), do en Ido la finalo esas `-o'. Tamen por la >sequanta metali, me sugestas Magnezio, Vanadio, Yitrio, Rutenio, >Telurio, Uranio, Kromio, Titanio, Selenio, nam la finalo `-io' >remplasas A: `-ium', quankam Dro. Ostwald donas la finalo `-o'. >(5). Anke me sugestas borono (B) ne boro,. quale argono, kriptono. >xenono, radono, (nemetali). `Boro-` ja es radiko en Ido. >(6) Me sugestas hidrogeno (ne hido), oxigeno (ne oxo) e nitrogeno >(ne nitro) por regulozeso. En Francia, "azote" (sen vivo) = >nitrogeno, ma fakte niitrogeno es esenca a vivo pro ke ol facas >proteini, la kompozanti di celuli. La kurta formi ni vidas en la >nomi di molekuli, p.e. `nitrobenzeno'. >(7) Me agnoskas la helpo di la dicionarii di Dyer, Pesch, >Esperanto, La tabelo da Dro. Ostwald. la Lexiki di Nova Vorti (1988, >2001), e mea propra sugesti por regulozeso. >(1) En germana, "oe' ne es diftongo ma signifikas sono on ne trovas >en Ido. En Esperanto la litero `x' >ne existas, do "X-radii' es `rentgenradii'. Konseque en Ido semblas >saja uzar `rentgenio'.por l'elemento. > > TABELO DI KEMIALA ELEMENTI. > > 1. *Hidrogeno H 56. Bario Ba > 2. Helio He 57. Lantano La > 3. Litio Li 58. Cerio Ce > 4. Berilio Be 59. Prazeodimio Pr > 5. *Borono B 60. Neodimio Nd > 6. Karbo C 61. Prometio Pm > 7. *Nitrogeno N 62. Samario Sm > 8. *Oxigeno O 63. Europio Eu > 9. Fluoro F 64. Gadolinio Gd >10. Neono Ne 65. Terbio Tb >11. Natrio Na 66. Disprozio Dy >12. *Magnezio Mg 67. Holmio Ho >13. Aluminio Al 68. Erbio Er >14. Siliko Si 69. Tulio Tm >15. Fosfo P 70. Yiterbio Yb >!6. Sulfo S 71. Lutecio Lu >17. Kloro Cl 72 Hafnio Hf >18. Argono Ar 73 Tantalo Ta >19. Kalio K 74. Wolframo W >20. Kalcio Ca 75. Renio Re >21. Skandio Sc 76. Osmio Os >22.*Titanio Ti 77. Iridio Ir >23. *Vanadio V 78. Platino Pt >24.*KromioCr 79. Oro Au >25. Mangano Mn 80. *Merkuro Hg >26. Fero Fe 81. Talio Tl >27. Kobalto Co 82. Plombo Pb >28. Nikelo Ni 83. Bismuto Bi >29. Kupro Cu 84. Polonio Po >30. Zinko Zn 85. Astatino At >31. Galio Ga 86. Radono Rn >32. Germanio Ge 87. Francio Fr >33. Arseno As 88. *Radiumo Ra >34. *Selenio 89. Aktinio Ac >35. Bromo Br 90. Torio Th >36. Kriptono Kr 91. Protaktinio Pa >37. Rubidio Rb 92. *Uranio U >38. Stroncio Sr 93. Neptunio Np >39. *Yitrio Y 94. Plutonio Pu >40. Zirkonio Zr 95. Americio Am >41. Niobio Nb 96. *Kuriumo Cm >42. Molibdeno Mo 97. Berkelio Bk >43. Teknecio Tc 98. Kalifornio Cf >44. *Rutenio Ru 99. Einsteinio Es >45. Rodio Rh 100. Fermio Fm >46. Paladio Pd 101. Mendelevio Md >47. Arjento Ag 102. Nobelio No >48. Kadmio Cd 103. Laurencio Lr >49. Indio In 104. Ruterfordio Rf >50. Stano Sn 105. Dubnio Db >51. Antimono Sb 106. Seborgio Sg >52. *Telurio Te 107. *Boriumo Bh >53. Iodo I 108. Hasio Hs >54. Xenono Xe 109. Meitnerio Mt >55. Cesio Cs 110. Darmstatio Bs > 111. Rentgenio Rg > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1515 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75312 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 22:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 22:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 22:25:37 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.173.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.173] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CvjzE-000AsA-GX for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:25:37 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:27:48 GMT Message-ID: <2005131222748.579730@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.92 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara James, A: Byelorussia, Belorussia F: Bi=E9lorussie G: Weissrussland, = Bjelorussland H: Bielorusia I: Bielorussia R: Byelorussia, Byelarus' Sembl= as - ma me volunte recevus plu bona informo - ke la formo "Byelorussia" esa= s Rusa, e ke la formo "Byelarus'" esas *Bielorusiana (*Bielorusa). Ofte en = la Angla linguo on konvertas o transskribas la Rusa litero qua prouncesas "= ye" sive per "e", sive per "ye". Por Ido semblas a me ke *Bielorusia (o fo= rsan *Byelorusia) esus bona. Esas vera ke, en la Angla linguo, multe plu o= fte nun esas uzata "Belarus" (adjektivo: "Belarussian" o "Belarusian" o "Be= larusan") vice "B(y)elorussia", ma to esas ofte pro simpla manko di savo e = per imito di altri, e kelkfoye pro supozo ke on devas tale nomar la lando. = Kande ulu dicas ke lu uzas exemple "Belarus" en la Angla, "pro ke tale on = nomas la lando en la lando ipsa", me questionas lu pro quo lu ne nomas Germ= ania "Deutschland", e Finlando "Suomi" (o per olua Sueda nomo), ed India "B= harat", e me nultempe recevas respondo racionala od ofte mem irga respondo.= Pri "Sarajevo", me supozas ke tale la nomo esas maxim vaste konocata skri= be exter la lando (tamen nova Angla dicionario donas alternativo: "Serajevo= "). Me ne havas altra informo. Maxim ofte on konservas la ortografio nacion= ala por urbi, ma me ne savas quale on skribas ol ibe. Me ne memoras vidir "= Sarayevo" irgaloke. Kontraste, en la Angla linguo, adminime en Britania, k= elka yardeki ante nun, on preske sempre lektis "Jugoslavia", ma dum lasta y= ardeki on lektas preske sempre "Yugoslavia". (Tamen, semblas ke la lando ne= povis tolerar ta ortografio e decidis remplasar olua nomo per plura altra = nomi.) Robert. __________ >=A0Kar amiki > >=A0Ka Minsk es la chefurbo di = Belarus, Belarusia, o Bielorusia? Ka >=A0Sarajevo o Sarayevo? > >=A0Predank= o > >=A0Kordiale, James Chandler >=A0idojc@hotmail.com >=A0http://www.geoci= ties.com/idojc - IALs index >=A0http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html = - Ido index >=A0http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1516 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33634 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 22:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2005 22:50:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep17-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.16) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 22:50:41 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with SMTP id <20050131224653.MVPZ14848.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:46:53 +0100 Message-ID: <014801c507e6$6f995740$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <2005131222748.579730@SonyFX805> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 23:44:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.16 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Robert, En Medjdunarodnii Vspomogatelnii Yazik Ido, da Aaronov, on trovas ye pagino 18: Belorusia (lando) - Beloruso (la habitanto) Me kredas ke oportas sequar la listo di landonomi en ta libro. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kara James, A: Byelorussia, Belorussia F: Bi�lorussie G: Weissrussland, Bjelorussland H: Bielorusia I: Bielorussia R: Byelorussia, Byelarus' Semblas - ma me volunte recevus plu bona informo - ke la formo "Byelorussia" esas Rusa, e ke la formo "Byelarus'" esas *Bielorusiana (*Bielorusa). Ofte en la Angla linguo on konvertas o transskribas la Rusa litero qua prouncesas "ye" sive per "e", sive per "ye". Por Ido semblas a me ke *Bielorusia (o forsan *Byelorusia) esus bona. Esas vera ke, en la Angla linguo, multe plu ofte nun esas uzata "Belarus" (adjektivo: "Belarussian" o "Belarusian" o "Belarusan") vice "B(y)elorussia", ma to esas ofte pro simpla manko di savo e per imito di altri, e kelkfoye pro supozo ke on devas tale nomar la lando. Kande ulu dicas ke lu uzas exemple "Belarus" en la Angla, "pro ke tale on nomas la lando en la lando ipsa", me questionas lu pro quo lu ne nomas Germania "Deutschland", e Finlando "Suomi" (o per olua Sueda nomo), ed India "Bharat", e me nultempe recevas respondo racionala od ofte mem irga respondo. Pri "Sarajevo", me supozas ke tale la nomo esas maxim vaste konocata skribe exter la lando (tamen nova Angla dicionario donas alternativo: "Serajevo"). Me ne havas altra informo. Maxim ofte on konservas la ortografio nacionala por urbi, ma me ne savas quale on skribas ol ibe. Me ne memoras vidir "Sarayevo" irgaloke. Kontraste, en la Angla linguo, adminime en Britania, kelka yardeki ante nun, on preske sempre lektis "Jugoslavia", ma dum lasta yardeki on lektas preske sempre "Yugoslavia". (Tamen, semblas ke la lando ne povis tolerar ta ortografio e decidis remplasar olua nomo per plura altra nomi.) Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1517 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14875 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 17:29:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 17:29:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.22) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 17:29:05 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:29:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 213.166.17.21 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:28:33 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <2005131222748.579730@SonyFX805> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:28:33 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2005 17:29:02.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[854CFB80:01C50883] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.22 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Danko pro vua expliko. Tamen on trovas la nomo 'Belarus' ofte en la angla. Exemple, e CIA e BBC uzas 'Belarus'. Me aceptas la propozo 'Bielorusia' ed anke konkordas kun vu pri 'Sarajevo'. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna >From: Robert >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:27:48 GMT > > >Kara James, > >A: Byelorussia, Belorussia >F: Bi�lorussie >G: Weissrussland, Bjelorussland >H: Bielorusia >I: Bielorussia >R: Byelorussia, Byelarus' > >Semblas - ma me volunte recevus plu bona informo - ke la formo >"Byelorussia" esas Rusa, e ke la formo "Byelarus'" esas *Bielorusiana >(*Bielorusa). Ofte en la Angla linguo on konvertas o transskribas la Rusa >litero qua prouncesas "ye" sive per "e", sive per "ye". > >Por Ido semblas a me ke *Bielorusia (o forsan *Byelorusia) esus bona. > >Esas vera ke, en la Angla linguo, multe plu ofte nun esas uzata "Belarus" >(adjektivo: "Belarussian" o "Belarusian" o "Belarusan") vice >"B(y)elorussia", ma to esas ofte pro simpla manko di savo e per imito di >altri, e kelkfoye pro supozo ke on devas tale nomar la lando. > >Kande ulu dicas ke lu uzas exemple "Belarus" en la Angla, "pro ke tale on >nomas la lando en la lando ipsa", me questionas lu pro quo lu ne nomas >Germania "Deutschland", e Finlando "Suomi" (o per olua Sueda nomo), ed >India "Bharat", e me nultempe recevas respondo racionala od ofte mem irga >respondo. > >Pri "Sarajevo", me supozas ke tale la nomo esas maxim vaste konocata skribe >exter la lando (tamen nova Angla dicionario donas alternativo: "Serajevo"). >Me ne havas altra informo. Maxim ofte on konservas la ortografio nacionala >por urbi, ma me ne savas quale on skribas ol ibe. Me ne memoras vidir >"Sarayevo" irgaloke. > >Kontraste, en la Angla linguo, adminime en Britania, kelka yardeki ante >nun, on preske sempre lektis "Jugoslavia", ma dum lasta yardeki on lektas >preske sempre "Yugoslavia". (Tamen, semblas ke la lando ne povis tolerar ta >ortografio e decidis remplasar olua nomo per plura altra nomi.) > >Robert. >__________ > > >�Kar amiki > > > >�Ka Minsk es la chefurbo di Belarus, Belarusia, o Bielorusia? Ka > >�Sarajevo o Sarayevo? > > > >�Predanko > > > >�Kordiale, James Chandler > >�idojc@hotmail.com > >�http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > >�http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > >�http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1518 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89309 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2005 23:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2005 23:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2005 23:41:08 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119873529 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:11:06 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16868-01 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:10:51 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F13382BB2; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:10:49 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3AD71787 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:10:49 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:10:49 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ye 31 Jan 2005, Arto Moisio skribis: > Se ula linguo uzas Latin alfabeto, = ni mustas uzar la vorto-formi > latin-alfabetala di ula linguo anke en Ido,= quankam esus difero en > pronunci inter Ido ed ula linguo. Do me pensas, k= e ni mustas uzar > formo "Sarajevo" pro ke on uzas Latina literi en > Bosni= a-Hercegovina. Se ulu volas uzar formo, quo semblas genuina > soni en "Sara= jevo", lu povas uzar temporale formo "Sarayevo" en Ido. > > La chanjo di "= Sarajevo" a "Sarayevo" esus facila ma fola. Quale on > skribus por exemplo = Germana nomi kam N=FCrnberg, L=FCbeck o R=F6ntgen en > Idala sistemo? Ka Nu= ernberg, Luebeck, Roentgen? En mea matrala > linguo esas literi =E4, =F6 ed= y (kam Germana =FC). Kad ni mustus uzar por > J=E4rvenp=E4=E4 (urbeto prox= im Helsinki) la formo "Jaervenpaeae", pro ke Kara Arto Moisio, On povas d= iferante traktar diferanta lingui. Se me komprenas juste, la litero =E4 Ge= rmana derivesas de originala "ae". On povas vidar en Fraktur o Schwabacher= (??) literi (anciena Germana alfabeti) ke mikra "e" (vice du punti) stacas= super la "a" en certena libri, e simile pri "o" ed "u". Klare (semblas a = me), "=E4" abrevias "ae" en ta linguo. Vu konocas la historio di la literi= Fina, e vu darfas konstatar ke la afero pri =E4 esas tote diferanta en vua= linguo, e ne tolerar irga chanjo. Ma semblas a me ke esas tote normala ke= ipsa Germani skribas "ae" kande konvenanta. Anke la "e" kun circonflexo d= i la Franca linguo esas (historiale) abreviuro vice "es", e Hispaniani ipse= povas skribar "espanyol". Pri la "j" di "Sarajevo" on povas konsiderar ka= d "i", "j" esas tote diferanta literi en la Kroata linguo, o ka li esas la = sama litero skribata diferante segun volo. Anke on darfas konsiderar la to= ta diskonkordo inter ta "j" e la "j" di Ido, ke li signifikas tote diferant= a soni, e hike ni projetas pri Ido, ne pri la Serbo-Kroata. La regulo pri = diakritigita literi en propra nomi en Ido (literi qui ne aspektas simile ka= m irgo Ido litero), ke on retenas la formo di la fonta lingui, ne kreas reg= ulo pri tota deskonkordo j/j. Me deskonkordas pri "quankam esus difero en = pronunci inter Ido ed ula linguo". Ne esas tala difero inter =E4 ed ula Id= o litero e konseque on povas havar regulo ke on retenez =E4. Esas grava di= fero inter Kroata "j" ed Ido "j". (Pri "Poccki" mea mento faliis. Se me n= un rimemoras juste, la vorto esas "Pyccki". La "y" equivalas "u" Ido, "oo"= Angla.) Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson [Non-text portions of this messag= e have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1519 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59838 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2005 20:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2005 20:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2005 20:56:36 -0000 Received: from gr.189.168.106.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.168.106] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CwRY9-0009Ln-7b for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 02 Feb 2005 20:56:34 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:58:09 GMT Message-ID: <20052220589.815253@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <014801c507e6$6f995740$acef5dd5@azalia> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Questioni pri nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Hans, Danko pro la informo. Tamen, ka vu savas ka ta formi adoptesis= oficale, o ka Aaronov - quale uli agas nun - sentis bezono ed ipse decidis= pri formi sen uzar asterisko? Me mustas suspektar la duesma, nam lu donas = anke diversa altra nomi (por landi, urbi, montari e fluvii), sen mem un ast= erisko, mem por ti qui ne esas en altra vortolibri. Regretinde, me ne pova= s komprenar lua texto en la Rusa por savar ka lu dicis ulo por explikar. Es= as nur poka linei, e forsan oli ne helpas. Kad ulu povas helpar ni pri to q= uan lu skribis en la Rusa ye pagini 18-19? Robert. _________ On Mon, 31 J= an 2005 23:44:34 +0100, H. Stuifbergen wrote: >=A0Kara Robert, > >=A0En Med= jdunarodnii Vspomogatelnii Yazik Ido, da Aaronov, on trovas >=A0ye pagino 1= 8: > >=A0Belorusia (lando) - Beloruso (la habitanto) > >=A0Me kredas ke opo= rtas sequar la listo di landonomi en ta libro. > >=A0Saluti amikala, > >=A0= Hans St. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1520 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50236 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2005 04:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2005 04:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2005 04:25:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2005 04:25:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2005 04:25:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 04:25:02 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 609 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.28 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Krimino. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Quon exakte signifikas "krimin.ar" en Ido? Segun vortari trovebla en Internet: En la Angla: krimin.ar to commit a crime Ed en la Hispana: krimin-ar, cometer un crimen. Tamen, la vorti "A: crime" e "H: crimen" esas fals amiki. Me ne esas advokato, ma segun me savas, la vorto Hispana "crimen" esas l'ocido intencata di altra homo (A: murder) dum ke la Angla "crime" esas vorto plu generala qua inkluzas "murder" ma anke altra agi nelegala. (H: delito grave). Altravorte, la Hispana "crimen" sempre inkluzas morto, dum ke la Angla, ne sempre. Vin predankas amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1521 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65835 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2005 03:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2005 03:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2005 03:00:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 89398 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2005 03:00:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20050206030034.89396.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.94] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 04:00:34 CET Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 04:00:34 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.56 From: Partaka Subject: Pri la Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Respektinda samlinguani: Pardonez me, pro ke me ne es tante konvinkita pri l' konvenanteso aceptar expresuro quala "la Fina" vice "la Finlandana"... En Ido, ni ja havas la radiko "fin." kun olua derivuri: Fina, finala, fino, fine, finar, finesar, fineskar, finante, finajo, finez, edc. Pluse, ne omnu skribas mayuskule la nomi pri lingui, habitanti, edc. Irgamaniere, nule suficus la simpla difero "mayuskula-minuskula", nam ni devas ya pensar specale pri komunikado per voco. Ni omna savas qua linguo es la Finlandana, diferanta kam la Lapona o la Sueda (ank idiomi che Finlando). Kand on 'parlas', por exemplo, pri la Hispana, la Franca, l'Italiana o l'Irlandana, ni omna ya savas, exakte, la lingui quin ni referas, malgre ke en Hispania, Francia, Italia ed Irlanda, existas plur altra idiomi. Ultre l' partikularajo, ni devas egardar l'ensemblo. Kaze ke ni aceptus "la Fina, Fino, Fini", edc., forsan ni mustus adoptar mult altra nomi, multe plu preciza, por tant altra landi, lingui, kulturi, edc. Segun me, "la Finlandana, Finlandano, Finlandani" ya es la nomi uzenda, ed on darfas e devas nuancar e pluklarigar oli, sempre ke lo esos necesa. Malgre omno, por referar al familio lingual quan me konocas Hispanlingue per "fino-'ugrica", me bezonas nomo diferanta kam "Finlandana", olqua advere ne fitas. Che Wikipedio, me trovas l'expresuro "feno-ugra", ma on mustas konciar, ke anke l' vorto "feno" existas Ide, ed ol posedas, supozeble, tre diferanta signifiko. Mem kaze ke ni bezonus nekareebla vorti por igar plu preciza olti quala "Finlandana, Finlandani", edc., me ya preferus referar a "Finiana e Finiani" kam "Fina e Fini". E do, la familio lingual esus "finian-ugra" od irgo simila. Tamen, ta nova vorti meritas nula specal atenco o komento... Me deziras atencigar nur' pri l' posibla ne konvenanteso aceptar vorti quala "Fina, Fino", edc., tante plu, ke ni povas nuancar, se necesa, existanta ed oficala vorti, nome "Finlandana, Finlandano", edc. Fine ^ ^, anke esus bona klarigar "por sempre", kad on darfas admisar la yena formi kom korekta: Portugala, Itala, Nederlanda, Irlanda, Nepala, edc... Vi omna recevez mea amikal saluto de Barcelona! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1522 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65349 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2005 15:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2005 15:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2005 15:53:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2005 15:53:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2005 15:53:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:53:28 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050206030034.89396.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2004 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.48 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: Pri la Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara samlinguani, Ca diskuto pri "Finlandana" komencis per mea mesajo numero 1491. Me ne repetas ol hike, ma mea chefa problemo esas, quale on separas la lando e la linguo. Me pensis, ke on povus uzar altralatere la (nova) frazo "Fina linguo", ed altralatere la frazo (ja uzata) "Finlandano, -a". Ma logikoze naskas anke vortareto kam "Fino, Fineskar, Finigar" edc., quo esas por orelo sama kam "fino, fineskar, finigar". Me explikas, pro quo mea problemo naskis: Me esas linguisto e laboras en "Research Institute for the Languages of Finland" (vizitez http://www.kotus.fi/inenglish/ ). Quale mea laboreyo esus en Ido? Ka "Expertizeyo di la Finlandana Lingui"? Hike "Finlandana lingui" signifikas Fin(landan)a linguo, Sueda linguo, Lapona lingui (=pluralo), Finlandana Gesto-linguo (por la surdi) e Cigana linguo (Finlandana). Do per Idala vorti tradicionala me devus skribar, ke "Finlandana linguo esas un de Finlandana lingui" o "Finlandana linguo esas linguo di Finlando". Hike esas nula informo. Tamen me laboras nek kun Fin(landan)a linguo, nek kun Finlandana lingui, ma kun parenta lingui dil Finl(andan)a, qui parolesas en Rusia. Mea linguo dil expertizo(?) esas Cheremisa (o Mari) linguo. Do me bezonas nomo anke por tota linguaro. Apta vorto esus Uralika lingui/linguaro, ma quo esus la subgrupi di la linguaro? Me inventis la frazo "Fena-Ugra linguaro". Hike "Fena" signifikus la tota brancho di Permana, Volgana e (Fena-)Baltika lingui ed "Ugra" signifikus la brancho di Ob-Ugra (la Vogula/Mansi e la Ostyaka/Hanti) e di Hungara. La homi, qui parolas parenta lingui dil Finl(andan)a en Rusia, ne esas Rusi, ma Rusiani. Ca kazo esas komplexa ed ula rezolvo vortala esas bezonata. La propozo di Partaka pri l' uzo dil sufixo -an forsan esas bona: do ka ni uzos Finia, Finiano, Finiana vice nuna Finlando, Finlandano, Finlandana? Ma quala vorti por subgrupi dil Uralika linguaro? Ka Finian-Ugra, Finian-Permana, Finian-Volgana, Finian-Baltika? Salutante Arto Moisio Finiano de Finia From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1523 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39051 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2005 22:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2005 22:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2005 22:24:35 -0000 Received: from gr.189.165.110.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.165.110] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1CxupT-000AJG-MM for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:24:33 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:38:49 GMT Message-ID: <200526213849.120079@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Krimino. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Eduardo, Segun Pesch: "kriminar (netrans.) I. Agar tale ke la lego e= tikala esas ne-egardata maxim grave. II. (yuro-cienco). Exekutar ago pri q= ua la lego stipulas ke lu esas la kauzo di puniso korpala ed infamiganta. = III. (Hiperbole). Exekutar ago quan onu judikas tro severe pri lua posibla = konsequi mala. - DEFIRS." Ne maxim klara expliko! Me konsiderus la unesma = kom pekar, ne kriminar. Peko esas ago kontre la (plu grava) legi di dio o d= i religio, e krimino esas ago kontre la (plu grava) legi di stati, ka ne? = Segun de Beaufront e Couturat: F crime =3D krimino; F commetre un crime =3D= kriminar. Segun Franca dicionario: crime 1. (Cour.) Infraction grave aux = prescriptions de la morale. (Par exag.) Acte r=E9pr=E9hensible, bla^mable.= 2. (Cour.) Meurtre. 3. (Droit.) Infraction punie d'une peine afflictive = ou infamante (par oppos. a` contravention et a` d=E9lit). Semblas ke Pesch = multe sequis la Franca linguo. Segun Dyer, krimino esas plu grava kam deli= kto, qua esas plu grava kam kontravenco. Lu donas, kom exempli di krimino, = trahizo [supozeble kontre la stato], ocido, ed incendio intencala (quale ta= di domo). Do, evidente ne nur ocido. Dyer ne mencionas ago kontre lego eti= kala. Segun mezgranda Hispana vortaro: CRIMEN. Delito grave, com=FAnmente= el que conlleva derramamiento de sangre. Me ne komprenas to, ecepte supoz= eble "delikto grava, ordinare ta qua ... sango". Segun vortaro Hispana-Ang= la: crimen (=3D asesinato) murder; (=3D delito grave) crime. Semblas do k= e la Hispana vorto havas du senci: (1) ocido; (2) krimino (delikto grava). = Semblas ke la Idala vorto esas mi-fals amiko por Hispan-parolanti e mem Fr= anc-parolanti, nam esas dubitoza ke ol havas parte la sama senco kam "ocida= r" (o kam "pekar"). Esus plu klara se, en vortaro Ido-Hispana, on explikus = plu klare la senco di 'kriminar'. Me propozas (ma me invitas korektigo): k= riminar -- cometer un crimen (delito grave). La problemo indikas ke esas t= re dezirinda indikar, en vortolibro, tre klare la senco di singla vorto se = existas posibleso di dubito. Tamen, esas anke tre posibla ke la senci di vo= rti nacionala kelke chanjis dum yardeki. Certe to eventis pri ula Angla vor= ti. Robert. ___________________ Eduardo A. Rodi skribis: > >=A0Kara sami= deani, > >=A0Quon exakte signifikas "krimin.ar" en Ido? Segun vortari trove= bla >=A0en Internet: > >=A0En la Angla: krimin.ar to commit a crime > >=A0E= d en la Hispana: krimin-ar, cometer un crimen. > >=A0Tamen, la vorti "A: cr= ime" e "H: crimen" esas fals amiki. Me ne >=A0esas advokato, ma segun me sa= vas [mea savo], la vorto Hispana "crimen" esas >=A0l'ocido intencata di alt= ra homo (A: murder) dum ke la Angla "crime" >=A0esas vorto plu generala qua= inkluzas "murder" ma anke altra agi >=A0nelegala. (H: delito grave). Altra= vorte, la Hispana "crimen" sempre >=A0inkluzas morto, dum ke la Angla, ne s= empre. > >=A0Vin predankas amikale, > >=A0Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1524 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55612 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2005 22:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2005 22:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2005 22:24:42 -0000 Received: from gr.189.165.110.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.165.110] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1Cxupb-000AJG-Ae for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:24:41 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 22:27:25 GMT Message-ID: <200526222725.991784@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050206030034.89396.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Partaka, Pri vua objeciono kontre "Fina", me komprenas ol. Vu ofras "= Finiana" se necesa. Ni povus alternative adoptar "Finna" quale en Esperanto= , e takaze on anke audus la difero de "fina", nam on devus pronuncar la lit= ero "n" dufoye. Se ni povas pronuncar "anmo" ed "amnezio", supozeble "Finna= " ne esus tro desfacila. Pri vua questiono, sube citita, mea respondo must= as esar "no, ni ne povas admisar tala formi". Altrakaze, esus adminime tri = problemi: (1) "Kanada", exemple, esus samtempe substantivo ed adjektivo; (2= ) "Portugalo" e "Nederlando", exemple, esus personi (se persono Franca esas= Franco, takaze persono "Irlanda" esas "Irlando"). (3) ni ganus la sama pro= blemo pri, exemple, "austro" (suda vento) ed "Austro" (persono) pri qua vu = objecionis pri "Fina". Do, la formi mustas esar: Portugalana, Italiana, Ne= derlandana, Irlandana, Nepalana, e cetere. Robert. Partaka skribis: >=A0= Fine ^ ^, anke esus bona klarigar "por sempre", kad on darfas >=A0admisar l= a yena formi kom korekta: Portugala, Itala, Nederlanda, >=A0Irlanda, Nepala= , edc... > >=A0Vi omna recevez mea amikal saluto de Barcelona! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1525 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4704 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2005 17:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2005 17:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2005 17:33:46 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.179] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CyClR-0006Aa-00; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:33:33 +0100 Received: from [212.114.230.226] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CyClQ-0002PD-00; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:33:33 +0100 Message-ID: <003d01c50d3b$21eb0890$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Robert Pontnau" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:33:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.187 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Voluntez helpar salvar la heredajo di Wilhelm Ostwald X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara gesamideani! La jeranto dil Wilhelm-Ostwald-Memoreyo en Grossbothen p= roxime a Leipzig (Saxonia/Germania), sioro Hansel, informis me, ke la memor= eyo esas klozita depos l'unesma di februaro 2005. La posedanto dil heredajo= di profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald, la Federala Lando Saxonia desengajis pri la = financala prokuraji por la memoreyo e konseque on ne plus povas entratenar = ol. Sioro Hansel pregis me, ke me turnez su a la Saxona ministerio di cienc= i ed arto e postular la garantio, ke la heredajo di Wilhelm Ostwald restez = publike acebla. Intertempe ja Eberhard Scholz e me skribis a la ministerio.= Pro ke profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald ne nur esis kemiisto, ma anke Idisto e me= m prezidanto dil Uniono por la Linguo Internaciona (Ido) lua heredajo anke = kontenas idaji quale libri, revui e broshuri. Pro to me rekomendus a l'Idi= sti sustenar la penadi salvar la heredajo di profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald skri= bante adminime kurta talmaniera prego- o mem protest-letro a la Saxona min= isterio di cienci ed arto en Dresden per postala letro , per faxo o per e-p= osto. La postala adreso de la ministr(in)o die cienco ed arto esas: S=E4c= hsische Staatsministerium f=FCr Wissenschaft und Kunst Staatsministerin Ba= rbara Ludwig Wigardstra=DFe 17 D-01097 Dresden Germania La fax-numero es= as: +49 351 564 6004 La e-postala adreso esas: buergerbeauftragter@smwk.sa= chsen.de . Me tre joyus, se multa Idisti sustenus la skopo salvar la hered= ajo di profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald e la garantio dil publika aceso ad ol. La= partoprenanti en nia Ido-konfero 2003, qua eventis en Grossbothen, certe b= one memoras pri la valoro dil Wilhelm-Ostwald-Memoreyo anke por l'Idistaro.= Me predankas ad omnu, qua skribos a la ministerio. Kordiala saluti a vi = omna Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1526 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65691 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2005 04:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2005 04:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2005 04:41:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2005 04:41:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2005 04:41:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:41:38 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200526213849.120079@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1633 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.47 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Krimino. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Robert, Danko pro vua granda helpo. > Segun mezgranda Hispana vorta= ro: > CRIMEN. Delito grave, com=FAnmente el que conlleva derramamiento de = sangre. > > Me ne komprenas to, ecepte supozeble "delikto grava, ordinare= ta qua ... sango". conllevar (con + llevar)=3D kunportar, inkluzar, impl= ikar derramamiento de sangre (sangifo) esas eufemismo o pompozajo por "mor= to pro vundo" Do: CRIMEN. Delikto grava, ordinare ta qua konsistas ek la o= cido di homo per vundo. > La problemo indikas ke esas tre dezirinda indik= ar, en vortolibro, tre klare la senco di singla vorto se existas posibleso= di dubito. Tamen, esas anke tre posibla ke la senci di vorti nacionala ke= lke chanjis dum yardeki. Certe to eventis pri ula Angla vorti. To esas an= ke posibla en ta kazo. Fakte, la vorto "criminal" ya sempre supozas ocido,= dum ke "crimen" adminime ordinare, nenecese sugestas lo sama. Evidente un= de amba vorti (me konjektas ke "crimen") developis aden sua nuna signifik= o. > Semblas ke la Idala vorto esas mi-fals amiko por Hispan-parolanti e = mem Franc-parolanti, nam esas dubitoza ke ol havas parte la sama senco kam= "ocidar" (o kam "pekar"). Esus plu klara se, en vortaro Ido- Hispana, on e= xplikus plu klare la senco di 'kriminar'. Me propozas (ma me invitas korek= tigo): > > kriminar -- cometer un crimen (delito grave). Me definus: kri= minar -- cometer un delito grave. nam per "delito grave" on inkluzas anke = "crimen". Tamen me pensas ke por la Hispana esus preferenda definar ne la = verbo ma la substantivo "krimino" kom "delito grave", de qua l'altra deri= vaji esus facile facebla. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1527 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16437 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2005 05:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2005 05:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2005 05:40:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 39723 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2005 05:40:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20050209054022.39721.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.251] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 06:40:22 CET Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 06:40:22 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.56 From: Partaka Subject: Ankorfoye pri la Finlandana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Robert! Me sugestis vorti quala "Finia, Finiano, Finiana", nur por la kazo ke oli esus absolute bezonata. Tamen, segun me kredas, Ido posedas nula vorto qua kontenas duopla konsonanto, e do esus ya dangeroza aceptar "Finna" vice "Finlandana" o mem "Finiana". Tal vorto ("Finna") esabus, principe, la maxim logikoza, ma se on decidis refuzar ol, e mi-aceptar "Fina", me supozas ke lo esis pro grava motivo, duranta nuninstante. La problemo ne es la pronunco di "Finna", ma olua duopla konsonanto. Me ne savas ka ni darfas aceptar tal vorto quale, exemple, olta dil urbo Rennes o dil nomo Ioannes. Adoptar radiko quala "Finn-" signifikus adoptor anke olua derivuraro, to es, Finnia, Finnlando, Finno, Finna, Finniano, Finniana, Finnigar, Finnatra, Finnala, Finne, edc... Pro lo, me konsideras ol kom ne apta por Ido. Se necese, yen la chefa vorto e radiko: Fini.a. Saluto, Arto! Probable, vu es justa pri l' konvenanteso havar altra vorto kam "Finlandana" por plukonkretigar la nomo dil linguo quan vu 'parlas', ma me ne ja komprenis lo. Pro to, me intencos respondar vua questioni tale: Vua lando: Finlando. Vua linguo: la Finlandana. Vua laboreyo: ... "pri/por la lingui di Finlando". Lingui di Finlando: la Finlandana, la Sueda, le Lapona, la Gesto-linguo (di Finlando) e la Cigana (di Finlando). La Finlandana es un del lingui di Finlando. Altralatere, me ne savas kad "Uralika" es korekta Ido-vorto: irgakaze, ni devas atencar tre specale pri ta sorto de vorti, qui semblas kontenar nia sufixo "ik". Me koncias ke ne ja existas suficanta komunikado inter ni, Idisti, tamen me kredas ke ante "inventar" nomo quala "Fena-Ugra", on devas unesme konsultir l'Ido-vortari, e pose, se tal vorto ne existas, kontrastar ol kun la cetera samideani, specale se ni decidas ne uzar l'asterisko od irg altra atencigilo... Per mea preirinta mesajo, me ja indikis ke tam "fin-" kam "fen-" esas ya existanta Ido-radiki. Ultre l' diskuteyi Wikipedial, ni profitez anke Linguolisto! Quankam me kredas komprenir vua intenco, me ne ja koncias pri l' difero (en Ido) inter Rusi e Rusiani: homo qua posedas la nacioneso Rusa, es Ruso o Rusiano (malgre ke lu esus di linguo e kulturo Mari-ana, Finiana [en la Finlandana], Hispana [en la Hispana] od irg altra. Penvalorus saveskar, kad advere esas ula difero prie. Kande me dicas "Finia", me ne referas exakte a Finlando, ma al parto di Finlando qua expresas su en la Finlandana ("Finiana"). Mem pluse: "Finia" darfus esar "la lando" dil "Finianaro" en la tota mondo, to es, "la lando" di irgu qua apartenas al kulturo "Finiana". L'exemplo maxim simila: Idia por l'Idisti. To signifikas, ke Finlando, la Finlandani e lo Finlandana durus existar, e ke vu esus' ne "Finiano de Finia", ma "Finiano de Finlando o Finiano Finlandana". Malgre omno, se me ne eroras, la linguo Finlandana reprezentas plu kam 90% del habitanti di FINlando... Me ne tote komprenas pro quo vi devas renuncar pri l' nomo "la FINlandana", se l' cetera lingui di Finlando posedas sua propra nomo. Exkuzez me, pro ke forsan, mem per mea maxim bon intenco, me *pludifikultigis ic afero. Me deziras profitar por gratular vu tre sincere pro vua Ido-nivelo, e pro vua ecelanta laboro che Wikipedio. Por-Finiana saluti de Barcelona! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * * * * * ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1528 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8398 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2005 17:25:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2005 17:25:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.176) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2005 17:25:36 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.179] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CzeVa-000562-00; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:23:10 +0100 Received: from [83.171.146.111] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1CzeVa-0007sF-00; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:23:10 +0100 Message-ID: <00f001c5105e$57b8db70$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Robert Pontnau" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:22:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.176 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Voluntez helpar salvar la heredajo di Wilhelm Ostwald X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara gesamideani! Ante kelka dii me sendis prego a l'Idistaro helpar salv= ar la heredajo di olima ULI-prezidanto Wilhelm Ostwald, pos ke la Saxona mi= nisterio di cienci ed arto desengajis pri la financala prokuraji por la mem= oreyo e konseque on ne plus povas entratenar ol. Me rekomendis ed ankorfoy= e rekomendas a l'Idisti sustenar la penadi salvar la heredajo di profesoro = Wilhelm Ostwald skribante adminime kurta talmaniera prego- o mem protest-le= tro a la Saxona ministerio di cienci ed arto en Dresden per postala letro = , per faxo o per e-posto. Segun propozo di James Chandler e Loic Landais m= e preparis Germanlingua letreto, quan omna interesata Idisto povas uzar por= protestar. Me adjuntas ol ye la fino di e kom atachuro a ca mesajo. Me tr= e joyus, se multa samideani sustenus ca importanta afero. Yen ankorfoye l'= adresi dil ministerio: La postala adreso de la ministr(in)o die cienco ed = arto esas (Esas dezirata, ke on uzas la postfak (PF)-adreso vice la adreso = kun strado): S=E4chsische Staatsministerium f=FCr Wissenschaft und Kunst S= taatsministerin Barbara Ludwig PF 10 09 20, D-01079 Dresden Germania La= fax-numero esas: +49 351 564 6004 La e-postala adreso esas: buergerbeauft= ragter@smwk.sachsen.de . Kordiala saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper An das S= =E4chsische Staatsministerium f=FCr Wissenschaft und Kunst Staatsministerin= Barbara Ludwig Wigardstra=DFe 17 D-01097 Dresden Postanschrift: PF 10 0= 9 20, D-01079 Dresden Fax 0351 564 6004 (Loko) am (dato (dio.monato.= ))2005 Sehr geehrte Frau Staatsministerin! Ich protestiere als A= nh=E4nger der internationalen Sprache Ido energisch gegen die Schlie=DFung = der Wilhelm-Ostwald-Gedenkst=E4tte in Gro=DFbothen. Ich bitte, nach M=F6g= lichkeiten zu suchen, die Schlie=DFung der Wilhelm-Ostwald-Gedenkst=E4tte i= n Gro=DFbothen r=FCckg=E4ngig zu machen. Dar=FCber hinaus erwarte ich, den = =F6ffentlichen Zugang zum Nachlass des Nobelpreistr=E4gers und ehemaligen P= r=E4sidenten der Welt-Ido-Organisation ULI, Prof. Wilhelm Ostwald, auch k= =FCnftig zu gew=E4hrleisten. Ich meine, dass die Wirkung dieser ausgezeic= hneten Bildungsst=E4tte f=FCr zuk=FCnftige Generationen nicht untersch=E4tz= t werden darf. Hochachtungsvoll! Signaturo Prenomo, Nomo (sen komo)= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1529 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23970 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2005 20:32:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2005 20:32:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2005 20:32:46 -0000 Received: from gr.189.167.148.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.167.148] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D0QQ8-0003RF-UV for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:32:45 +0000 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:32:25 GMT Message-ID: <2005213203225.444660@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.52 From: Robert Subject: Nova vorti geologiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Yen posibla nova nomi por eoni, eri e periodi geologiala depos la kreo dil = Tero. Ni ja havas nur poka tala nomi. Me invitas helpo e komenti. Regretin= de me ne havas la Rusa nomi. Me audas nulo dum kelka tempo de mea helpanto = pri la Rusa. Me komparis vorti e tabeli en recenta libri en plura lingui. = Li ne tote konkordas e ne esas same detaloza, ma ni povus adoptar vorti ube= li konkordas ed ube on povas trovar tradukuri. Por ula periodi me ne suces= is trovar tradukuri en plu kam un o du lingui. Robert. ________ La listo= kun tradukuri esas alfabetala, ma hike esas listo tempala, komencanta per = la maxim recenta (yari esas en milioni). Ne omni inkluzas quaresma ero. *f= anerozoiko - eono (543 til nun) dividita aden lasta tri eri: IV. Quaresma e= ro (2 til nun, do lasta cirkume 2.000.000 yari), dividita aden 2 periodi: = *oloceno *pleistoceno III. Triesma ero. *cenozoiko - ero (65 til 2 o= til nun) dividita aden sequanta periodi: *plioceno *mioceno *o= ligoceno *eoceno *paleoceno II. Duesma ero. *mezozoiko - ero (225 o= 251 - 65) dividita aden sequanta periodi: *kretaceo juraso tri= aso I. Unesma ero. *paleozoiko - ero (543 o 600 - 251 o 225) dividita aden = sequanta periodi: *permio *karbonifero (du periodi - *pensilvanio e= *misisipio - segun nur la Usana libro) *devonio silurio *ordov= icio *kambrio *proterozoiko od *algonkio - eono (2500 - 543 o 600) *ar= keo - eono (4000 - 2500) *hadeo -eono (c. 4450 til 4000). A=3Dangla; F=3D= franca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto Vor= ti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos kursive = *algonki.o / periodo geologiala, duesma e lasta parto di *prekambrio. Sama = kam *proterozoiko! Segun un libro "algonkio" esas la nuna nomo vice "eoceno= "; segun altra libro "algonkio" esas anciena nomo! / A: Proterozoic, Algon= kian [geol.] F: algonkien G: Algonkium H: algonquino [geol.] I: algonchiano= R> E: proterozoiko, algonkio *arkean.o / periodo geologiala, unesma parto= di *prekambrio / A: Archaean (period) F: arch=E9en G: Arch=E4ozoikum, Arch= aikum, Erdurzeit H: arqueense I: archeano R> E: arkeano *cenozoik.o / ero = geologiala, pos *mezozoiko / A: Caiozoic, Cenozoic (era) F: c=E9nozo=EFque = G: K=E4nozoikum H: cenozoico I: cenozoico R> E: kenozoiko *devoni.o / peri= odo geologiala, pos silurio ed ante *karbonifero. Tale *devoniala (G: devon= isch) / A: Devonian (period) F: d=E9vonien G: Devon [geol.] H: dev=F3nico I= : devoniano R> E: devonio *holocen.o / nuna periodo od epoko geologiala / = A: Holocene F: holoc=E8ne G: Holoz=E4n H: holoceno I: olocene R> E: holocen= o *kambri.o / periodo geologiala, unesma di *paleozoiko / A: Cambrian (per= iod) F: cambrien G: Kambrium [geol.] H: c=E1mbrico I: cambriano R> E: kambr= io *karbonifer.o / periodo geologiala, pos *devonio ed ante *permio / A: C= arboniferous (period) F: carbonif=E8re G: Karbon [geol.] H: carbon=EDfero I= : carbonifero R> E: karbonio *kretace.o / periodo geologiala, lasta di *me= zozoiko, pos juraso / A: Cretaceous (period) F: cr=E9tac=E9 G: Kreide(zeit)= [geol.]; [-ala] kretazeisch, kretazisch H: cret=E1cico I: cretaceo R> E: k= retaceo *mezozoik.o / ero geologiala, pos *paleozoiko ed ante *cenozoiko /= A: Mesozoic (era) F: m=E9sozo=EFque, =E8re secondaire G: Mesozoikum, Erdmi= ttelalter H: mesozoico, era secundario I: mesozoico, era secondaria R> E: m= ezozoiko *neogen.o / periodo geologiala kombinanta *mioceno e *plioceno / = A: Neogene [n.] F: n=E9og=E8ne G: Neogen H: neogeno I: neogene R> E: neogen= o *ordovici.o / periodo geologiala, pos *kambrio ed ante *silurio / A: Ord= ovician (period) F: ordovicien G: Ordovizium H: ordov=EDcico, ordoviciense = I: ordoviciano R> E: ordovicio *paleocen.o / unesma periodo od etapo dil *= cenozoiko / A: Palaeocene, [US] Paleocene F: pal=E9oc=E8ne G: Pal=E4oz=E4n = H: paleoceno I: paleocene R> E: paleoceno *paleogen.o / periodo geologiala= kombinanta *paleoceno, *eoceno ed *oligoceno / A: Palaeogene, [US] Paleoge= ne F: pal=E9og=E8ne, nummulitique G: Pal=E4ogen H: pale=F3geno I: Paleogene= , Nummulitico R> E: paleogeno *paleozoik.o / ero geologiala, ante *mezozoi= ko / A: Palaeozoic, [US] Paleozoic (era) F: pal=E9ozo=EFque, =E8re primaire= G: Pal=E4ozoikum, Erdaltertum H: paleozoico, era primaria I: paleozoico, e= ra primaria R> E: paleozoiko *permi.o / periodo geologiala, lasta di *pale= ozoiko. Dyer uzas "permiana" pri "diaso" (anciena nomo dil strato *permiana= ) / A: Permian (period) F: permien G: Perm [geol.] H: p=E9rmico I: permico,= permiano R> E: permio *pleistocen.o / periodo geologiala prelasta / A: Pl= eistocene (period) F: pl=E9istoc=E8ne G: Pleistoz=E4n, Eiszeit(alter) H: pl= eistoceno I: pleistocene R> E: pleistoceno, plejstoceno *pre.kambri.o / ma= xim frua ero geologiala, ante *paleozoiko / A: Pre-Cambrian (era) F: pr=E9c= ambrien G: Pr=E4kambrium H: prec=E1mbrico, antec=E1mbrico I: precambriano R= > E: antau`kambrio *proterozoik.o / duesma e lasta periodo di *prekambrio.= Sama kam *algonkio! / A: Proterozoic (period) [Upper Pre-Cambrian], Algonk= ian [geol.] F: prot=E9rozo=EFque, algonkien G: Proterozoikum, Algonkium H: = algonquino [geol.] I: archeozoico, proterozoico R> E: proterozoiko *siluri= .o / periodo geologiala pos *ordovicio ed ante *devonio. Tale "siluriala" v= ice nuna "siluriana" / A: Silurian (period) F: silurien G: Silur [geol.] H:= sil=FArico I: siluriano R> E: silurio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1530 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73488 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2005 04:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2005 04:51:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2005 04:51:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2005 04:51:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2005 04:51:39 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:51:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005213203225.444660@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 7066 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: Nova vorti geologiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Robert, La periodi geologiala en la rusa esas trovebla en Rusa-Wikip= edio: per Google serchez ''Геохроl= 5;ологическа= 103; шкала '' Геох&#= 1088;онологичес= кая шкала ... Ге= ;охронологи = 95;еская шкала.= Материал из &#= 1042;икипедии =97 с&#= 1074;ободной энm= 4;иклопедии. ... ru.= wikipedia.org/wiki/ Геохроно= ;логическая_= 096;кала - 31k - Amikale, Jacques * --- In lin= guolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Yen posibla nova no= mi por eoni, eri e periodi geologiala depos la kreo dil Tero. Ni ja havas = nur poka tala nomi. Me invitas helpo e komenti. > > Regretinde me ne hava= s la Rusa nomi. Me audas nulo dum kelka tempo de mea helpanto pri la Rusa.= > > Me komparis vorti e tabeli en recenta libri en plura lingui. Li ne t= ote konkordas e ne esas same detaloza, ma ni povus adoptar vorti ube li ko= nkordas ed ube on povas trovar tradukuri. Por ula periodi me ne sucesis tr= ovar tradukuri en plu kam un o du lingui. > > Robert. > ________ > > > L= a listo kun tradukuri esas alfabetala, ma hike esas listo tempala, komenca= nta per la maxim recenta (yari esas en milioni). Ne omni inkluzas quaresma= ero. > > *fanerozoiko - eono (543 til nun) dividita aden lasta tri eri: >= IV. Quaresma ero (2 til nun, do lasta cirkume 2.000.000 yari), dividita a= den 2 periodi: > *oloceno > *pleistoceno > III. Triesma ero. *cenoz= oiko - ero (65 til 2 o til nun) dividita aden sequanta periodi: > *pli= oceno > *mioceno > *oligoceno > *eoceno > *paleoceno > II. = Duesma ero. *mezozoiko - ero (225 o 251 - 65) dividita aden sequanta perio= di: > *kretaceo > juraso > triaso > I. Unesma ero. *paleozoiko = - ero (543 o 600 - 251 o 225) dividita aden sequanta periodi: > *permi= o > *karbonifero (du periodi - *pensilvanio e *misisipio - segun nur l= a Usana libro) > *devonio > silurio > *ordovicio > *kambrio= > > *proterozoiko od *algonkio - eono (2500 - 543 o 600) > *arkeo - eono = (4000 - 2500) > *hadeo -eono (c. 4450 til 4000). > > > A=3Dangla; F=3Dfra= nca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto > Vor= ti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos kursive = > > *algonki.o > / periodo geologiala, duesma e lasta parto di *prekambrio= . Sama kam > *proterozoiko! Segun un libro "algonkio" esas la nuna nomo vi= ce "eoceno"; > segun altra libro "algonkio" esas anciena nomo! / > A: Prot= erozoic, Algonkian [geol.] > F: algonkien > G: Algonkium > H: algonquino [g= eol.] > I: algonchiano > R> > E: proterozoiko, algonkio > > *arkean.o > / = periodo geologiala, unesma parto di *prekambrio / > A: Archaean (period) > = F: arch=E9en > G: Arch=E4ozoikum, Archaikum, Erdurzeit > H: arqueense > I: = archeano > R> > E: arkeano > > *cenozoik.o > / ero geologiala, pos *mezozo= iko / > A: Caiozoic, Cenozoic (era) > F: c=E9nozo=EFque > G: K=E4nozoikum >= H: cenozoico > I: cenozoico > R> > E: kenozoiko > > *devoni.o > / periodo= geologiala, pos silurio ed ante *karbonifero. Tale *devoniala (G: > devon= isch) / > A: Devonian (period) > F: d=E9vonien > G: Devon [geol.] > H: dev= =F3nico > I: devoniano > R> > E: devonio > > *holocen.o > / nuna periodo o= d epoko geologiala / > A: Holocene > F: holoc=E8ne > G: Holoz=E4n > H: holo= ceno > I: olocene > R> > E: holoceno > > *kambri.o > / periodo geologiala,= unesma di *paleozoiko / > A: Cambrian (period) > F: cambrien > G: Kambrium= [geol.] > H: c=E1mbrico > I: cambriano > R> > E: kambrio > > *karbonifer.= o > / periodo geologiala, pos *devonio ed ante *permio / > A: Carboniferous= (period) > F: carbonif=E8re > G: Karbon [geol.] > H: carbon=EDfero > I: ca= rbonifero > R> > E: karbonio > > *kretace.o > / periodo geologiala, lasta = di *mezozoiko, pos juraso / > A: Cretaceous (period) > F: cr=E9tac=E9 > G: = Kreide(zeit) [geol.]; [-ala] kretazeisch, kretazisch > H: cret=E1cico > I: = cretaceo > R> > E: kretaceo > > *mezozoik.o > / ero geologiala, pos *paleo= zoiko ed ante *cenozoiko / > A: Mesozoic (era) > F: m=E9sozo=EFque, =E8re s= econdaire > G: Mesozoikum, Erdmittelalter > H: mesozoico, era secundario > = I: mesozoico, era secondaria > R> > E: mezozoiko > > *neogen.o > / periodo= geologiala kombinanta *mioceno e *plioceno / > A: Neogene [n.] > F: n=E9og= =E8ne > G: Neogen > H: neogeno > I: neogene > R> > E: neogeno > > *ordovic= i.o > / periodo geologiala, pos *kambrio ed ante *silurio / > A: Ordovician= (period) > F: ordovicien > G: Ordovizium > H: ordov=EDcico, ordoviciense >= I: ordoviciano > R> > E: ordovicio > > *paleocen.o > / unesma periodo od = etapo dil *cenozoiko / > A: Palaeocene, [US] Paleocene > F: pal=E9oc=E8ne >= G: Pal=E4oz=E4n > H: paleoceno > I: paleocene > R> > E: paleoceno > > *pa= leogen.o > / periodo geologiala kombinanta *paleoceno, *eoceno ed *oligocen= o / > A: Palaeogene, [US] Paleogene > F: pal=E9og=E8ne, nummulitique > G: P= al=E4ogen > H: pale=F3geno > I: Paleogene, Nummulitico > R> > E: paleogeno = > > *paleozoik.o > / ero geologiala, ante *mezozoiko / > A: Palaeozoic, [U= S] Paleozoic (era) > F: pal=E9ozo=EFque, =E8re primaire > G: Pal=E4ozoikum,= Erdaltertum > H: paleozoico, era primaria > I: paleozoico, era primaria > = R> > E: paleozoiko > > *permi.o > / periodo geologiala, lasta di *paleozoi= ko. Dyer uzas "permiana" pri "diaso" > (anciena nomo dil strato *permiana)= / > A: Permian (period) > F: permien > G: Perm [geol.] > H: p=E9rmico > I:= permico, permiano > R> > E: permio > > *pleistocen.o > / periodo geologia= la prelasta / > A: Pleistocene (period) > F: pl=E9istoc=E8ne > G: Pleistoz= =E4n, Eiszeit(alter) > H: pleistoceno > I: pleistocene > R> > E: pleistocen= o, plejstoceno > > *pre.kambri.o > / maxim frua ero geologiala, ante *pale= ozoiko / > A: Pre-Cambrian (era) > F: pr=E9cambrien > G: Pr=E4kambrium > H:= prec=E1mbrico, antec=E1mbrico > I: precambriano > R> > E: antau`kambrio > = > *proterozoik.o > / duesma e lasta periodo di *prekambrio. Sama kam *algo= nkio! / > A: Proterozoic (period) [Upper Pre-Cambrian], Algonkian [geol.] >= F: prot=E9rozo=EFque, algonkien > G: Proterozoikum, Algonkium > H: algonqu= ino [geol.] > I: archeozoico, proterozoico > R> > E: proterozoiko > > *sil= uri.o > / periodo geologiala pos *ordovicio ed ante *devonio. Tale "siluri= ala" vice > nuna "siluriana" / > A: Silurian (period) > F: silurien > G: Si= lur [geol.] > H: sil=FArico > I: siluriano > R> > E: silurio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1531 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25652 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2005 05:33:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2005 05:33:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2005 05:33:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2005 05:32:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2005 05:32:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:32:23 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 7804 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: Nova vorti geologiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Robert, Aden la Rusa-Wikipedio: ''Geokhronologicheskaya shkala'' = en la rusa alfabeto ! Amikale, Jacques --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.= com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > Kara Robert, > > La per= iodi geologiala en la rusa esas trovebla en Rusa-Wikipedio: > > per Google= serchez ''Геохроно 083= ;огическая ш&#= 1082;ала '' > > Геохр = 86;ноло ;гическ&= #1072;я шкала ... > Ге= 086;хроноло ;гич= еская шкала. = Материал из &= #1042;икипедии =97 с= вободной > эн= циклопед ;ии. ..= . > ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Геохро = 85;оло ;гическа&= #1103;_ш 82;ала - 31k - > > Amikale, > > Jacq= ues > > > * > > --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert = wrote: > > Yen posibla nova nomi por eoni, eri e periodi geologiala depos = la > kreo dil Tero. Ni ja havas nur poka tala nomi. Me invitas helpo e >= komenti. > > > > Regretinde me ne havas la Rusa nomi. Me audas nulo dum k= elka tempo > de mea helpanto pri la Rusa. > > > > Me komparis vorti e ta= beli en recenta libri en plura lingui. Li ne > tote konkordas e ne esas s= ame detaloza, ma ni povus adoptar vorti > ube li konkordas ed ube on povas= trovar tradukuri. Por ula periodi > me ne sucesis trovar tradukuri en plu= kam un o du lingui. > > > > Robert. > > ________ > > > > > > La listo k= un tradukuri esas alfabetala, ma hike esas listo > tempala, komencanta per= la maxim recenta (yari esas en milioni). Ne > omni inkluzas quaresma ero= . > > > > *fanerozoiko - eono (543 til nun) dividita aden lasta tri eri: >= > IV. Quaresma ero (2 til nun, do lasta cirkume 2.000.000 yari), > dividi= ta aden 2 periodi: > > *oloceno > > *pleistoceno > > III. Triesma e= ro. *cenozoiko - ero (65 til 2 o til nun) dividita > aden sequanta periodi= : > > *plioceno > > *mioceno > > *oligoceno > > *eoceno > >= *paleoceno > > II. Duesma ero. *mezozoiko - ero (225 o 251 - 65) divid= ita aden > sequanta periodi: > > *kretaceo > > juraso > > tria= so > > I. Unesma ero. *paleozoiko - ero (543 o 600 - 251 o 225) dividita = > aden sequanta periodi: > > *permio > > *karbonifero (du periodi -= *pensilvanio e *misisipio - segun > nur la Usana libro) > > *devonio = > > silurio > > *ordovicio > > *kambrio > > > > *proterozoiko = od *algonkio - eono (2500 - 543 o 600) > > *arkeo - eono (4000 - 2500) > > = *hadeo -eono (c. 4450 til 4000). > > > > > > A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dg= ermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; > E=3DEsperanto > > Vorti int= er kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, imprimesos > kursive > > = > > *algonki.o > > / periodo geologiala, duesma e lasta parto di *prekambr= io. Sama kam > > *proterozoiko! Segun un libro "algonkio" esas la nuna nom= o > vice "eoceno"; > > segun altra libro "algonkio" esas anciena nomo! / = > > A: Proterozoic, Algonkian [geol.] > > F: algonkien > > G: Algonkium > >= H: algonquino [geol.] > > I: algonchiano > > R> > > E: proterozoiko, algon= kio > > > > *arkean.o > > / periodo geologiala, unesma parto di *prekambri= o / > > A: Archaean (period) > > F: arch=E9en > > G: Arch=E4ozoikum, Archai= kum, Erdurzeit > > H: arqueense > > I: archeano > > R> > > E: arkeano > > = > > *cenozoik.o > > / ero geologiala, pos *mezozoiko / > > A: Caiozoic, Cen= ozoic (era) > > F: c=E9nozo=EFque > > G: K=E4nozoikum > > H: cenozoico > > = I: cenozoico > > R> > > E: kenozoiko > > > > *devoni.o > > / periodo geolo= giala, pos silurio ed ante *karbonifero. Tale > *devoniala (G: > > devonis= ch) / > > A: Devonian (period) > > F: d=E9vonien > > G: Devon [geol.] > > H= : dev=F3nico > > I: devoniano > > R> > > E: devonio > > > > *holocen.o > >= / nuna periodo od epoko geologiala / > > A: Holocene > > F: holoc=E8ne > >= G: Holoz=E4n > > H: holoceno > > I: olocene > > R> > > E: holoceno > > > = > *kambri.o > > / periodo geologiala, unesma di *paleozoiko / > > A: Cambri= an (period) > > F: cambrien > > G: Kambrium [geol.] > > H: c=E1mbrico > > I= : cambriano > > R> > > E: kambrio > > > > *karbonifer.o > > / periodo geol= ogiala, pos *devonio ed ante *permio / > > A: Carboniferous (period) > > F:= carbonif=E8re > > G: Karbon [geol.] > > H: carbon=EDfero > > I: carbonifer= o > > R> > > E: karbonio > > > > *kretace.o > > / periodo geologiala, last= a di *mezozoiko, pos juraso / > > A: Cretaceous (period) > > F: cr=E9tac=E9= > > G: Kreide(zeit) [geol.]; [-ala] kretazeisch, kretazisch > > H: cret=E1= cico > > I: cretaceo > > R> > > E: kretaceo > > > > *mezozoik.o > > / ero = geologiala, pos *paleozoiko ed ante *cenozoiko / > > A: Mesozoic (era) > > = F: m=E9sozo=EFque, =E8re secondaire > > G: Mesozoikum, Erdmittelalter > > H= : mesozoico, era secundario > > I: mesozoico, era secondaria > > R> > > E: = mezozoiko > > > > *neogen.o > > / periodo geologiala kombinanta *mioceno e= *plioceno / > > A: Neogene [n.] > > F: n=E9og=E8ne > > G: Neogen > > H: ne= ogeno > > I: neogene > > R> > > E: neogeno > > > > *ordovici.o > > / perio= do geologiala, pos *kambrio ed ante *silurio / > > A: Ordovician (period) >= > F: ordovicien > > G: Ordovizium > > H: ordov=EDcico, ordoviciense > > I:= ordoviciano > > R> > > E: ordovicio > > > > *paleocen.o > > / unesma peri= odo od etapo dil *cenozoiko / > > A: Palaeocene, [US] Paleocene > > F: pal= =E9oc=E8ne > > G: Pal=E4oz=E4n > > H: paleoceno > > I: paleocene > > R> > >= E: paleoceno > > > > *paleogen.o > > / periodo geologiala kombinanta *pal= eoceno, *eoceno ed *oligoceno / > > A: Palaeogene, [US] Paleogene > > F: p= al=E9og=E8ne, nummulitique > > G: Pal=E4ogen > > H: pale=F3geno > > I: Pale= ogene, Nummulitico > > R> > > E: paleogeno > > > > *paleozoik.o > > / ero = geologiala, ante *mezozoiko / > > A: Palaeozoic, [US] Paleozoic (era) > > F= : pal=E9ozo=EFque, =E8re primaire > > G: Pal=E4ozoikum, Erdaltertum > > H: = paleozoico, era primaria > > I: paleozoico, era primaria > > R> > > E: pale= ozoiko > > > > *permi.o > > / periodo geologiala, lasta di *paleozoiko. Dy= er uzas "permiana" > pri "diaso" > > (anciena nomo dil strato *permiana) /= > > A: Permian (period) > > F: permien > > G: Perm [geol.] > > H: p=E9rmic= o > > I: permico, permiano > > R> > > E: permio > > > > *pleistocen.o > > = / periodo geologiala prelasta / > > A: Pleistocene (period) > > F: pl=E9ist= oc=E8ne > > G: Pleistoz=E4n, Eiszeit(alter) > > H: pleistoceno > > I: pleis= tocene > > R> > > E: pleistoceno, plejstoceno > > > > *pre.kambri.o > > / = maxim frua ero geologiala, ante *paleozoiko / > > A: Pre-Cambrian (era) > >= F: pr=E9cambrien > > G: Pr=E4kambrium > > H: prec=E1mbrico, antec=E1mbrico= > > I: precambriano > > R> > > E: antau`kambrio > > > > *proterozoik.o > = > / duesma e lasta periodo di *prekambrio. Sama kam *algonkio! / > > A: Pro= terozoic (period) [Upper Pre-Cambrian], Algonkian [geol.] > > F: prot=E9roz= o=EFque, algonkien > > G: Proterozoikum, Algonkium > > H: algonquino [geol.= ] > > I: archeozoico, proterozoico > > R> > > E: proterozoiko > > > > *sil= uri.o > > / periodo geologiala pos *ordovicio ed ante *devonio. > Tale "si= luriala" vice > > nuna "siluriana" / > > A: Silurian (period) > > F: siluri= en > > G: Silur [geol.] > > H: sil=FArico > > I: siluriano > > R> > > E: si= lurio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1532 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22279 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2005 07:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2005 07:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2005 07:12:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2005 07:12:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2005 07:12:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:12:25 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005213203225.444660@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 6226 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Re: Nova vorti geologiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert, Danko por la vorti geologiala. Forsan mikra eroro: En l'eono = *fanerozoiko, vu donas l'unesma periodo quale *oloceno. Ma l'altra lingui h= avas 'holoceno' edc. Nur Itala havas 'oloceno' pro ke li ne uzas la litero = 'h'. Do me pensas ke *holoceno es plu apta por Ido. Amikale, Richard Stev= enson. --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Y= en posibla nova nomi por eoni, eri e periodi geologiala depos la kreo dil = Tero. Ni ja havas nur poka tala nomi. Me invitas helpo e komenti. > > Reg= retinde me ne havas la Rusa nomi. Me audas nulo dum kelka tempo de mea hel= panto pri la Rusa. > > Me komparis vorti e tabeli en recenta libri en plur= a lingui. Li ne tote konkordas e ne esas same detaloza, ma ni povus adopta= r vorti ube li konkordas ed ube on povas trovar tradukuri. Por ula periodi= me ne sucesis trovar tradukuri en plu kam un o du lingui. > > Robert. > = ________ > > > La listo kun tradukuri esas alfabetala, ma hike esas listo= tempala, komencanta per la maxim recenta (yari esas en milioni). Ne omni= inkluzas quaresma ero. > > *fanerozoiko - eono (543 til nun) dividita ade= n lasta tri eri: > IV. Quaresma ero (2 til nun, do lasta cirkume 2.000.000 = yari), dividita aden 2 periodi: > *oloceno > *pleistoceno > III. T= riesma ero. *cenozoiko - ero (65 til 2 o til nun) dividita aden sequanta p= eriodi: > *plioceno > *mioceno > *oligoceno > *eoceno > = *paleoceno > II. Duesma ero. *mezozoiko - ero (225 o 251 - 65) dividita ad= en sequanta periodi: > *kretaceo > juraso > triaso > I. Unesma= ero. *paleozoiko - ero (543 o 600 - 251 o 225) dividita aden sequanta per= iodi: > *permio > *karbonifero (du periodi - *pensilvanio e *misisi= pio - segun nur la Usana libro) > *devonio > silurio > *ordovi= cio > *kambrio > > *proterozoiko od *algonkio - eono (2500 - 543 o 600= ) > *arkeo - eono (4000 - 2500) > *hadeo -eono (c. 4450 til 4000). > > > = A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E= =3DEsperanto > Vorti inter kramponi [tale], od inter simboli =B0tale=B0, im= primesos kursive > > *algonki.o > / periodo geologiala, duesma e lasta pa= rto di *prekambrio. Sama kam > *proterozoiko! Segun un libro "algonkio" esa= s la nuna nomo vice "eoceno"; > segun altra libro "algonkio" esas anciena= nomo! / > A: Proterozoic, Algonkian [geol.] > F: algonkien > G: Algonkium = > H: algonquino [geol.] > I: algonchiano > R> > E: proterozoiko, algonkio >= > *arkean.o > / periodo geologiala, unesma parto di *prekambrio / > A: Ar= chaean (period) > F: arch=E9en > G: Arch=E4ozoikum, Archaikum, Erdurzeit > = H: arqueense > I: archeano > R> > E: arkeano > > *cenozoik.o > / ero geolo= giala, pos *mezozoiko / > A: Caiozoic, Cenozoic (era) > F: c=E9nozo=EFque >= G: K=E4nozoikum > H: cenozoico > I: cenozoico > R> > E: kenozoiko > > *de= voni.o > / periodo geologiala, pos silurio ed ante *karbonifero. Tale *dev= oniala (G: > devonisch) / > A: Devonian (period) > F: d=E9vonien > G: Devon= [geol.] > H: dev=F3nico > I: devoniano > R> > E: devonio > > *holocen.o >= / nuna periodo od epoko geologiala / > A: Holocene > F: holoc=E8ne > G: Ho= loz=E4n > H: holoceno > I: olocene > R> > E: holoceno > > *kambri.o > / pe= riodo geologiala, unesma di *paleozoiko / > A: Cambrian (period) > F: cambr= ien > G: Kambrium [geol.] > H: c=E1mbrico > I: cambriano > R> > E: kambrio = > > *karbonifer.o > / periodo geologiala, pos *devonio ed ante *permio / >= A: Carboniferous (period) > F: carbonif=E8re > G: Karbon [geol.] > H: carb= on=EDfero > I: carbonifero > R> > E: karbonio > > *kretace.o > / periodo g= eologiala, lasta di *mezozoiko, pos juraso / > A: Cretaceous (period) > F: = cr=E9tac=E9 > G: Kreide(zeit) [geol.]; [-ala] kretazeisch, kretazisch > H: = cret=E1cico > I: cretaceo > R> > E: kretaceo > > *mezozoik.o > / ero geolo= giala, pos *paleozoiko ed ante *cenozoiko / > A: Mesozoic (era) > F: m=E9so= zo=EFque, =E8re secondaire > G: Mesozoikum, Erdmittelalter > H: mesozoico, = era secundario > I: mesozoico, era secondaria > R> > E: mezozoiko > > *neo= gen.o > / periodo geologiala kombinanta *mioceno e *plioceno / > A: Neogene= [n.] > F: n=E9og=E8ne > G: Neogen > H: neogeno > I: neogene > R> > E: neog= eno > > *ordovici.o > / periodo geologiala, pos *kambrio ed ante *silurio = / > A: Ordovician (period) > F: ordovicien > G: Ordovizium > H: ordov=EDcic= o, ordoviciense > I: ordoviciano > R> > E: ordovicio > > *paleocen.o > / u= nesma periodo od etapo dil *cenozoiko / > A: Palaeocene, [US] Paleocene > F= : pal=E9oc=E8ne > G: Pal=E4oz=E4n > H: paleoceno > I: paleocene > R> > E: p= aleoceno > > *paleogen.o > / periodo geologiala kombinanta *paleoceno, *eo= ceno ed *oligoceno / > A: Palaeogene, [US] Paleogene > F: pal=E9og=E8ne, nu= mmulitique > G: Pal=E4ogen > H: pale=F3geno > I: Paleogene, Nummulitico > R= > > E: paleogeno > > *paleozoik.o > / ero geologiala, ante *mezozoiko / > = A: Palaeozoic, [US] Paleozoic (era) > F: pal=E9ozo=EFque, =E8re primaire > = G: Pal=E4ozoikum, Erdaltertum > H: paleozoico, era primaria > I: paleozoico= , era primaria > R> > E: paleozoiko > > *permi.o > / periodo geologiala, l= asta di *paleozoiko. Dyer uzas "permiana" pri "diaso" > (anciena nomo dil = strato *permiana) / > A: Permian (period) > F: permien > G: Perm [geol.] > = H: p=E9rmico > I: permico, permiano > R> > E: permio > > *pleistocen.o > /= periodo geologiala prelasta / > A: Pleistocene (period) > F: pl=E9istoc=E8= ne > G: Pleistoz=E4n, Eiszeit(alter) > H: pleistoceno > I: pleistocene > R>= > E: pleistoceno, plejstoceno > > *pre.kambri.o > / maxim frua ero geolog= iala, ante *paleozoiko / > A: Pre-Cambrian (era) > F: pr=E9cambrien > G: Pr= =E4kambrium > H: prec=E1mbrico, antec=E1mbrico > I: precambriano > R> > E: = antau`kambrio > > *proterozoik.o > / duesma e lasta periodo di *prekambrio= . Sama kam *algonkio! / > A: Proterozoic (period) [Upper Pre-Cambrian], Alg= onkian [geol.] > F: prot=E9rozo=EFque, algonkien > G: Proterozoikum, Algonk= ium > H: algonquino [geol.] > I: archeozoico, proterozoico > R> > E: proter= ozoiko > > *siluri.o > / periodo geologiala pos *ordovicio ed ante *devoni= o. Tale "siluriala" vice > nuna "siluriana" / > A: Silurian (period) > F: = silurien > G: Silur [geol.] > H: sil=FArico > I: siluriano > R> > E: siluri= o From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1533 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62437 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2005 23:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2005 23:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sutherland.numericable.net) (80.236.3.117) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 2005 23:38:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 21422 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2005 23:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by sutherland.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 15 Feb 2005 23:38:37 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c513b8$38ed1960$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:43:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.117 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara samideano, Me deziras atraktar vua atenco kun la vorto "abdomino". Esas la traduko de [G : Unterlieb ] [A : abdomen ] [F: abdomen] [H: abdomen] [I: addome] Me ne komprenas pro quo ULI ne decidis adoptar "abdomeno" vice " abdomino" . Ka esas por diferenciesar kun Esperanto qua selektis "abdomeno" ? Me ne esperas lo, se ne, esus segun me tre mala selekto pro ke : 1) segun la sistemo GAFIR la vorto "abdomeno" esas le plu internaciona 2) "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto "abdominaux" qua signifikas abdominala muskuli e do esas falsa amiko por ni francani. Me predankas ti qui komentos ca mesajo. Kordiale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1534 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71797 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2005 09:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2005 09:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.51) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2005 09:32:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:32:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 213.166.17.22 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:31:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <002601c513b8$38ed1960$bf60dc51@landloic> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:31:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2005 09:32:03.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F3E6400:01C5140A] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.51 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Talakaze on koaktesas selektar pro ke Ido havas la sufixo -ala (mankanta en Esp). Do ka la radikala formo, o la derivuro devas esar plu naturalatra? A abdomen Ido abdomino A abdominal Ido abdomin/ala Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna >From: "Loic Landais" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: "linguolisto" >Subject: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:43:59 +0100 > > >Kara samideano, > > >Me deziras atraktar vua atenco kun la vorto "abdomino". >Esas la traduko de > [G : Unterlieb ] [A : abdomen ] [F: abdomen] [H: abdomen] [I: addome] > >Me ne komprenas pro quo ULI ne decidis adoptar "abdomeno" vice " abdomino" >. >Ka esas por diferenciesar kun Esperanto qua selektis "abdomeno" ? >Me ne esperas lo, se ne, esus segun me tre mala selekto pro ke : >1) segun la sistemo GAFIR la vorto "abdomeno" esas le plu internaciona >2) "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto "abdominaux" qua signifikas >abdominala muskuli e do esas falsa amiko por ni francani. > >Me predankas ti qui komentos ca mesajo. > >Kordiale >Loik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1535 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9168 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2005 12:26:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2005 12:26:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.26) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2005 12:26:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 04:26:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 213.166.17.23 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:25:21 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: francidol@groupesyahoo.ca Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:25:21 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb 2005 12:26:02.0058 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7D0C2A0:01C514EB] X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.4.61.26 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [francidol] abdomino-abdominala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Merci Jacques, c'est tres interessant! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna >From: "jacquesdehe" >Reply-To: francidol@groupesyahoo.ca >To: francidol@groupesyahoo.ca >Subject: [francidol] abdomino-abdominala >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:09:33 -0000 > > > > > Kara Loic > > > Talakaze on koaktesas selektar pro ke Ido havas la sufixo -ala > > > (mankanta en Esp). Do ka la radikala formo, o la derivuro devas > > > esar plu naturalatra? > > > A abdomen Ido abdomino > > A abdominal Ido abdomin/ala > > > Kordiale, James Chandler > >* > >D'apr�s les statistiques de la langue anglaise > >le nom 'abdomen' se rencontre 302 fois pour 100 millions de mots > >tandis que l'adjectif 'abdominal'se rencontre 514 fois > >pour 100 millions de mots. > >Selon mon opinion la racine 'abdomin' est donc justifi�e. > >Amicalement, > >Jacques > > > > > > >Pour se d�sinscrire de cette liste, envoyer un message �: >francidol-unsubscribe@groupesyahoo.ca\ > >- LA FRANC IDISTI UNIONEZ SU EN L'ASOCIURO IDO-FRANCE . Vizitez la *sito >www.ido-france.org e kontaktez ido.france@laposte.net >- LES IDISTES FRANCAIS UNISSEZ-VOUS DANS L'ASSOCIATION IDO-FRANCE. Visitez >le site www.ido-france.org et contactez ido.france@laposte.net >-- > >Information sur l'Ido: >http://idofrancais.free.fr/ >http://www.ido-france.org/ >Liens Yahoo! Groupes > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1536 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26412 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2005 23:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2005 23:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kernighan.numericable.net) (80.236.3.114) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2005 23:49:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 7667 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2005 23:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by kernighan.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 17 Feb 2005 23:49:48 -0000 Message-ID: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:55:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.114 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara James, Segun la sistemo GAFIR, la derivuro ne semblas a me vere plu naturala kam la radikala formo : (A) abdomen (F) abdomen (H) abdomen (I) addome (Ido) abdomino (A) abdominal (F) abdominal, -ale, -aux (H) abdominal (I) addominale (Ido) abdominala Ma pro ke "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto "abdominaux" (qua signifikas abdominala muskuli ), ol esas falsa amiko por ni francani e konseque segun me esus preferinda adoptar la radikala formo "abdomeno" vice "abdomino". Cakaze Ido ed Esperanto havus la sama vorto "abdomeno". Ne esus plu male segun me. Ma kad ito esus problemo por vu anglani ? Kordiale. Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "James Chandler" � : Envoy� : mercredi 16 f�vrier 2005 10:31 Objet : RE: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno > > Kara Loic > > Talakaze on koaktesas selektar pro ke Ido havas la sufixo -ala (mankanta en > Esp). Do ka la radikala formo, o la derivuro devas esar plu naturalatra? > > A abdomen Ido abdomino > A abdominal Ido abdomin/ala > > Kordiale, James Chandler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1537 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36327 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 03:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2005 03:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 03:10:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5964F36FC for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:47 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04051-09 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:34 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4186516726; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:33 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8A236FC for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:33 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:40:33 +1030 (CST) To: Mailingliste Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <003d01c50d3b$21eb0890$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> Message-ID: References: <003d01c50d3b$21eb0890$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Voluntez helpar salvar la heredajo di Wilhelm Ostwald X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye Mon, 7 Feb 2005, Frank Kasper skribis: > La jeranto dil Wilhelm-Ostwald-Memoreyo en Grossbothen proxime a > Leipzig (Saxonia/Germania), sioro Hansel, informis me, ke la > memoreyo esas klozita depos l'unesma di februaro 2005. > > La posedanto dil heredajo di profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald, la Federala > Lando Saxonia desengajis pri la financala prokuraji por la memoreyo > e konseque on ne plus povas entratenar ol. > > Sioro Hansel pregis me, ke me turnez su a la Saxona ministerio di > cienci ed arto e postular la garantio, ke la heredajo di Wilhelm > Ostwald restez publike acesebla. > > Intertempe ja Eberhard Scholz e me skribis a la ministerio. > > Pro ke profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald ne nur esis kemiisto, ma anke > Idisto e mem prezidanto dil Uniono por la Linguo Internaciona (Ido) > lua heredajo anke kontenas idaji quale libri, revui e broshuri. > > Pro to me rekomendus a l'Idisti sustenar la penadi salvar la > heredajo di profesoro Wilhelm Ostwald skribante adminime kurta > talmaniera prego- o mem protest-letro a la Saxona ministerio di > cienci ed arto en Dresden per postala letro , per faxo o per > e-posto. Kara Frank, Me volas skribar a laboreyo di kemiisti Australiana por pregar ke li single skribar kom kemiisti a la ministerio. Ma me mustus skribar a li klara deskripto di a memoreyo ed olua historio, pro ke (me kredas) li nule savar pri ol. Do, me esperas ke vu povas skribar plu plene pri ca aferi. Anke, voluntez sendar tradukuro di la mesajo en la Germana linguo di vua altra mesajo. Ici mustos skribar ta qua li komprenas. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1538 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14766 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2005 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 03:17:50 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC02369E for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:47:49 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05028-01 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:47:41 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B6CD33649; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:47:40 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D1A354B for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:47:40 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:47:40 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > (A) abdomen (F) abdomen (H) abdomen (I) addome (Ido) abdomino > (A) abdominal (F) abdominal, -ale, -aux (H) abdominal (I) addominale > (Ido) abdominala > > Ma pro ke "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto "abdominaux" (qua > signifikas abdominala muskuli ), ol esas falsa amiko por ni francani e > konseque segun me esus preferinda adoptar la radikala formo "abdomeno" vice > "abdomino". > > Cakaze Ido ed Esperanto havus la sama vorto "abdomeno". Ne esus plu male > segun me. Kara Loic, Quo povas venor de co? Ka vu deziras ke la Ido vorto chanjos? Ne multe importas ka la radiko esas o ne esas diferanta de lo Esperanta. Preferinde, generale, ta lingui ne, sen ula raciono, selektez diferanta radiki. Ma pri 'abdomino', ja existas diferanta selekturi. Me opinionas ke la afero pri "-ala" povas esar la pro quo pri la difero. Ma ka yes o no, ka forta o febla raciono, la Ido radiko ne chanjesos pro ca diskuto. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1539 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61500 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 03:56:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2005 03:56:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 03:56:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2005 03:56:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2005 03:56:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:56:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1219 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe esperanto duktas a nulo, mem se absorbus Ido Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote: > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > > > (A) abdomen (F) abdomen (H) abdomen (I) addome (Ido) abdomino > > (A) abdominal (F) abdominal, -ale, -aux (H) abdominal (I) addominale > > (Ido) abdominala > > > > Ma pro ke "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto "abdominaux" (qua > > signifikas abdominala muskuli ), ol esas falsa amiko por ni francani e > > konseque segun me esus preferinda adoptar la radikala formo "abdomeno" vice > > "abdomino". > > > > Cakaze Ido ed Esperanto havus la sama vorto "abdomeno". Ne esus plu male > > segun me. > > Kara Loic, > > Quo povas venor de co? Ka vu deziras ke la Ido vorto chanjos? > > Ne multe importas ka la radiko esas o ne esas diferanta de lo > Esperanta. Preferinde, generale, ta lingui ne, sen ula raciono, > selektez diferanta radiki. Ma pri 'abdomino', ja existas diferanta > selekturi. > > Me opinionas ke la afero pri "-ala" povas esar la pro quo pri la > difero. Ma ka yes o no, ka forta o febla raciono, la Ido radiko ne > chanjesos pro ca diskuto. > > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1540 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73660 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 04:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2005 04:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 04:12:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284E51672A for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:42:37 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05028-03 for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:42:27 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8C5FC1672B; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:42:25 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AACB1672A for ; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:42:25 +1030 (CST) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:42:25 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > Cakaze Ido ed Esperanto havus la sama vorto "abdomeno". Ne esus plu male > segun me. Kara Loic, Forsan vu esas Esperantisto. En Ido on skribez "Ne esus plu mala segun me." Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1541 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33234 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 07:56:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2005 07:56:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO miner.numericable.net) (80.236.3.113) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2005 07:56:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25261 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2005 07:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by miner.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Feb 2005 07:56:25 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c51590$193f9b40$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:01:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.113 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Michael, No me ne esas Esperantisto ma jus Idisto debutanta qua ofte eroras kun ortografio e qua deziras plubonigar Ido por ke ol divenas la helpolinguo di Europana Uniono. Esas importanta ke omnu dicez se tala o tala aspekto dil linguo facas problemo mem se to ne plezas ad uli. Ma pri ca diskuto vua respondo konsideris unike la difero existanta kun Esperanto ma ne la fakto ke "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto "abdominaux" (qua signifikas abdominala muskuli ) e do esas falsa amiko por ni francani. Esas pro quo me preferus "abdomeno" vice "abdomino" ed ultre ne esus plu mala segun me ke cakaze Ido ed Esperanto inter-koincidus. Ma desfortune me konstatas ke la konservemo regnas che l' Idistaro ! Amikale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Michael Talbot-Wilson" � : Envoy� : vendredi 18 f�vrier 2005 05:12 Objet : Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno > > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > > > Cakaze Ido ed Esperanto havus la sama vorto "abdomeno". Ne esus plu male > > segun me. > > Kara Loic, > > Forsan vu esas Esperantisto. En Ido on skribez "Ne esus plu mala segun > me." > > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1542 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56505 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2005 01:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2005 01:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2005 01:16:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB378372C for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:46:54 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10729-06 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:46:45 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E2A8738FF; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:46:43 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8626372C for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:46:43 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:46:43 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002601c51590$193f9b40$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <002a01c5154c$1e2b9e40$bf60dc51@landloic> <002601c51590$193f9b40$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Fri, 18 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > > Kara Michael, > > No me ne esas Esperantisto ma jus Idisto debutanta qua ofte eroras kun > ortografio e qua deziras plubonigar Ido por ke ol divenas la helpolinguo di > Europana Uniono. > Esas importanta ke omnu dicez se tala o tala aspekto dil linguo facas > problemo mem se to ne plezas ad uli. Me konkordas. Ma selektar radiki multakaze esas desfacila. > Ma pri ca diskuto vua respondo konsideris unike la difero existanta kun > Esperanto ma ne la fakto ke "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto > "abdominaux" (qua signifikas abdominala muskuli ) e do esas falsa amiko por > ni francani. > > Esas pro quo me preferus "abdomeno" vice "abdomino" ed ultre ne esus plu > mala segun me ke cakaze Ido ed Esperanto inter-koincidus. Ma desfortune me > konstatas ke la konservemo regnas che l' Idistaro ! Necese, existos falsa amiki. Advere la Franca lingui esas favorita pro ke importanta pioniri esis Franci. Altra falsa amiko (inter multi) esas "asistar". La Angla havas la verbo "to assist", ma ta signifikas "helpar", tote ne "esar che olu, od avan ulu". To esas tre plu freque uzata vorto kam "abdomen". La afero esas tre plu grava pri ol. Ma nun esas tro tarda chanjar longatempe uzita radiki, aprobita de longa tempo, imprimita en la vortolibri, nur pro ke li esas falsa amiki ad uli. Ta nura fakto tote ne valoras tala chanji. La kazo pri Esperanto tote ne relatas, segun me. Me konkordas ke se omno alta esus para, egala, takaze, preferinde, Ido ed Esperanto selektez la sama radiko. Ma ta konsidero esas pasable febla apud altri. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1543 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22562 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2005 15:06:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2005 15:06:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2005 15:06:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 15:06:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2005 15:06:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:06:00 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002601c51590$193f9b40$bf60dc51@landloic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 365 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] abdomino od abdomeno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Loik skribis: > la fakto ke "abdomino" sonas same kam la franca vorto > = "abdominaux" (qua signifikas abdominala muskuli ) e do esas falsa amiko po= r > ni francani. Tamen ne. L' acento di "abdominaux" falas sur la lasta si= labo (abdominO), dum ke l' acento dil Idala vorto falas sur la prelasta (= abdomIno). La du vorti do NE =ABsonas same=BB. Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1544 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96024 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2005 17:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2005 17:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.173) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2005 17:18:02 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1D3dfd-0000WA-00; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:18:01 +0100 Received: from [83.171.149.137] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1D3dfd-0004yB-00; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:18:01 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01c51902$75dd8d10$6a1efea9@privatdesktop> To: "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:16:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.173 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Propozo di Protestletro a la Saxona ministerio di cienci ed arto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara geamiki! Per ico me sequas propozo di nia samideano Michael Talbot Wi= lson sendar Ido-tradukuro di mea propozo di Protestletro a la Saxona minis= terio di cienci ed arto kontre la klozado di la Wilhelm-Ostwald-Memoreyo. = La Wilhelm-Ostwald-Societo intertempe anke pregas stranjera personi ed orga= nizuro skribar protestletri a la ministerio. Kompreneble on povus skribar = persona letri sen uzar mea projeto. Omnakaze me tre joyus, se ultre kelka = Germana ed un Franca samideani anke altra Ido-amiki sustenus la salvado di = heredajo di un de nia Ido-pioniri. Me predankas pro via penadi! Kordiala = saluti a vi omna Frank Kasper P.S.: Por ti, qui ne povas apertar l'adjunti= ta "rtf"-dokumento yen la texto dil letro-projeto: An das S=E4chsische Sta= atsministerium f=FCr Wissenschaft und Kunst Staatsministerin Barbara Ludwi= g PF 10 09 20, D-01079 Dresden Fax 0351 564 6004 (Loko)...la (Dato)....= ..2005 Estimata siorino statala ministrino! Me protestas kontre la klo= zado dil Wilhelm-Ostwald-Memoreyo en Gro=DFbothen. Me pregas vu serchar = posiblesi por revizar la klozado dil Wilhelm-Ostwald-Memoreyo en Gro=DFbot= hen. Voluntez garantiar, ke la heredajo da la nobelpremiito ed olima prezid= anto dil mondala Ido-organizuro ULI anke future esos publike acesebla. Me = pensas, ke on ne darfez desprizar l'avantaji di ca memoreyo por futura gen= eracioni. Kun granda estimo signaturo [Non-text portions of this messag= e have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1545 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11988 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2005 21:18:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2005 21:18:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2005 21:18:33 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.233.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.233] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D3hQI-000JQ6-PZ for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:18:27 +0000 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:43:49 GMT Message-ID: <2005221214349.744078@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Yen listo q1 di 41 posibla nova vorti (ja mencionita hike antee) pronta por= decido, pri acepto o ne-acepto, da la Direktanta Komitato di ULI. Nun esa= s lasta invito komentar ante ofro dil vorti al DK. Multa altra nova vorti = esas preparata. Robert. A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana;= I=3Ditaliana; R=3Drusa; E=3DEsperanto; L=3Dlatina [tr]=3Dtransitiva; [ntr]= =3Dnetransitiva; ~=3Dtradukuro neexakta Literi inter kramponi {TALE} esas p= rivata noto pri fonto di Latina nomo *altokumulus.o [meteor.] / sorto di n= ubo (quale kumuluso, nimbo e.c.) / A: altocumulus F: altocumulus G: Altocum= ulus, Haufenwolke H: altoc=FAmulo, altoc=FAmulus I: altocumulo R: vjsokokuc= hyevoye oblako *altostrat.o [meteor.] / sorto di nubo / A: altostratus F: = altostratus G: Altostratus, hohe Schichtwolke H: altoestrato, altostratus I= : altostrato R: vjsokospoistoye oblako *bel.o [fiz.] / unajo di relativa s= on-intenseso; vid. anke *decibelo. La vorto esus teorie ambigua, ma extreme= rare to povus esar problemo / A: bel [phys.] F: bel G: Bel H: bel, belio I= : bel R: bel E: belo *benzodiazepin.o [kem.] / medikamento quietigiva e do= rmigiva / A: benzodiazepine F: benzodiaz=E9pine G: Benzodiazepin H: benzodi= azepina I: benzodiazepina R: byenzodiazyepin E: benzodiazepino *bombix.o [= insekto] / papiliono qua, kande vermatra, silkifas / A: bombyx, silkworm or= silkworm moth F: bombyx G: Seidenspinner H: gusano de seda I: bombice R: s= hyelkopryad; shyelkovichny cherv' E: bombikso L: Bombyx (mori) *celest.o [= muz.] / muzik-instrumento kun klavaro. Nomizita pro plu frua senco (A celes= tial, F c=E9leste e.c.) =3D "cielala" (amba senci) / A: celesta, celeste F:= c=E9lesta G: Celesta H: celeste I: celesta, celeste R: celesta E: celesto = *Cheki.a [lando] / land-nomo, kontraste a stat-nomo (Cheka Republiko) - di= fero ofte ignorata. Simile: Sud-Afrika e Republiko di Sud-Afrika; Chinia e = Republiko Populala di Chinia / A: Czech Republic F: R=E9publique tch=E9que = G: Tschechien, Tschechische Republik H: la Rep=FAblica Checa I: Repubblica = c=E8ca R: Cheshkaya Respublika E: C^eh^io, C^eh^ujo, C^eh^a Respubliko *cy= an.a [koloro] / koloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. Dan: cyan;= Ned: blauwgroen, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco / A: cyan [colo= ur] F: cyan [bleu-vert] G: Blaugruen H: azul verdoso I: ciano R: cian *dec= i.bel.o [fiz. e.c.] / unajo di relativa son-intenseso, decimo di *belo; abr= eviuro: dB / A: decibel F: d=E9cibel G: Dezibel H: decibel, decibelio I: de= cibel R: dyecibyel E: decibelo *dextros.o [kem.] / formo di glikoso / A: d= extrose F: dextrose G: Dextrose H: dextrosa I: destrosio R: dekstroza E: de= kstroglukozo, dekstrozo* *dipol.o [fiz.] / du proxima egala ma kontrea "ka= rgaji" elektrala o poli magnetala / A: dipole [two close equal but opposite= electric charges or magnetic poles] F: dip=F4le [ensemble de deux charges = =E9lectriques ou magn=E9tiques infiniment voisines et de signes oppos=E9s] = G: Dipol [Physik] H: dipolo I: dipolo R: dipol' E: dipolo *dubni.o [elem.]= / elem. kem. 105 (Db) / A: dubnium F: dubnium G: Dubnium H: dubnio I: dubn= io R: dubniy E: dubnio *Ege.a [mar.] / pri la maro e la insuli: *Egea maro= [q.v.], *Egea insuli / A: Aegean [sea, islands] F: =C9g=E9e [mer], de la m= er =C9g=E9e [=EEles] G: =E4g=E4isch H: egeo I: egeo R: egeyskiy E: Egea *e= kistik.o [cienco] / cienco pri homala koloniizo / A: ekistics F: =E9kistiqu= e G: Ekistik H: equ=EDstica, ekistica I: echistica R: ekistika *eskalator.= o [aparato] / mashinala eskalero "rulanta" o "movanta" (ma ne qua rulas, o = movas, de loko a loko!) / A: escalator F: escalier roulant (ou) m=E9canique= , escalator G: Rolltreppe H: escalera rodante / mec=E1nica / autom=E1tica I= : scala mobile R: eskalator E: ruls^tuparo *estr.o [zool.] / stando o fazo= periodala di mamiferino kande fekunda; tale *estrala =3D A: oestrous, estr= ous, F: oestral, H: estral / A: oestrus, [US] estrus [heat, mammalian sexua= l impulse] F: oestrus G: Oestrus, Brunst H: estro I: estro (venereo), calor= e R: tyechka E: oestro *fosforit.o [min.] / mineralo / A: phosphorite F: p= hosphorite G: Phosphorit H: fosforita I: fosforite R: fosforit E: fosforito= *gaur.o [mamif.] / bovo sovaja di sud-Azia / A: gaur F: gaur G: Gaur H: g= aur I: gaur R: gaur E: gau`ro L: Bos gaurus =3D Bos frontalis *geiser.o [g= eol.] / fonto naturala qua de tempo a tempo ekjetas aquo varmega e vaporo. = Pri alternative formo "geysero", la sistemo fonetikala di Ido ne permisas o= l. / A: geyser F: geyser G: Geiser H: g=E9iser I: geyser R: geyzer E: gejse= ro *geomorfologi.o [cienco] / cienco pri surfaco di Tero ed olua formi / A= : geomorphology, physical geography, physiography F: g=E9omorphologie G: Ge= omorphologie H: geomorfolog=EDa I: geomorfologia R: gyeomorfologiya E: geom= orfologio *glamor.o / facino loganta; atraktiveso facinanta. Tale *glamoro= za / A: glamour, [US] glamor F: glamour G: Glamour; Glanz H: glamour I: gla= mour, fascino intenso R: charj, charuyushchiye silj, volshyebstvo, sharm, o= charovaniye *guanak.o [mamif.] / animalo simila a lamao / A: guanaco F: gu= anaco G: Guanako H: guanaco [mam=EDfero] I: guanaco [mammifero] R: guanako = E: guanako L: Lama guanicoe *hafni.o [elem.] / elemento kemiala 72 (Hf) / = A: hafnium F: hafnium G: Hafnium H: hafnio I: afnio R: gafniy E: hafnio *h= ematom.o [medic.] / sorto di intumecajo sangoza en tisuo / A: haematoma, [U= S] hematoma F: h=E9matome G: Bluterguss, H=E4matom H: hematoma I: ematoma R= : gyematoma E: hematomo *henri.o [mez.] / unajo elektrofizikala di indukto= , nomita pro Joseph Henry / A: henry F: henry G: Henry H: Henrio I: henry R= : Genriy E: henro *hipertermi.o [patol.] / supernorma korpala temperaturo = / A: hyperthermia F: hyperthermie G: Hyperthermie H: hipertermia I: iperter= mia R: gipyertyermiya E: hipertermio *hipokaust.o [arkit.] / anciena Roman= a aparato por varmigo di domo / A: hypocaust F: hypocauste G: Hypokaustum H= : hipocausto I: ipocausto R: gipokaust E: hipokausto *hipoklorit.o [kem.] = / kemiajo / A: hypochlorite F: hypochlorite G: Hypochlorit H: hipoclorito I= : ipoclorito R: gipokhlorit E: hipoklorito *hipotalam.o [anat.] / parto di= cerebro / A: hypothalamus F: hypothalamus G: Hypothalamus H: hipot=E1lamo = I: ipotalamo R: gipotalamus E: hipotalamo *hipotermi.o [patol.] / maladige= subnorma korpala temperaturo / A: hypothermia F: hypothermie G: Unterk=FCh= lung, K=E4ltetod, Hyothermie H: hipotermia I: ipotermia R: gipotermiya E: h= ipotermio, algideco *histerektomi.o [medic.] / ablaciono di utero / A: hys= terectomy F: hyst=E9rectomie G: Hysterektomie H: histerectom=EDa I: isterec= tomia R: gistyerektomiya, udalyeniye matki E: uterektomio *hokey.o / sport= o / A: hockey F: hockey G: Hockey H: hockey I: hockey R: khokkey E: hokeo = *ibex.o [mamif.] / mamifero simila a kapro / A: ibex F: bouquetin, ibex G: = Steinbock H: =EDbex, =EDbice I: stambecco E: ibekso L: Capra ibex *ideogra= m.o / simbolo qua reprezentas ideo o vorto, quale en skriburo chiniana / A:= ideogram, ideograph F: id=E9ogramme G: Ideogramm H: ideograma I: ideogramm= a R: idyeogramma E: ideogramo *ionosfer.o [meteor.] / alta strato di atmos= fero / A: ionosphere F: ionosph=E8re G: Ionosph=E4re H: ionosfera I: ionosf= era R: ionosfyera E: jonosfero *kashu.o [bot.] / parto manjebla (*nuco) de= arboro *anakardio / A: cashew-nut F: noix de cajou, noix de caju, noix d'a= cajou G: Cashewnuss, Elefantenlaus H: (nuez de) anacardo I: noce (o nocciol= ina) di acagi=F9 R: kesh'yu E: akaj^u-nukso, anakardio *Pakistan [lando] A= : Pakistan F: Pakistan G: Pakistan H: Pakist=E1n, Paquist=E1n I: Pakistan R= : Pakistan E: Pakistano *reologi.o [cienco e.c.] / fiziko di fluo e formo = di materio, specale viskozeso di fluidi / A: rheology F: rh=E9ologie G: Rhe= ologie H: reolog=EDa I: reologia R: ryeologiya E: reologio *Tahiti [lando]= / tale "Tahiti-ana" (ne "Tahit-i" e "Tahit-ana"). Ni ja havas la vorti "Ha= iti" e "Havayi" / A: Tahiti F: Tahiti G: Tahiti H: Tahit=ED I: Tahiti R: Ta= iti E: Tahitio *Troy.a / urbo antiqua di Avan-Azia. Tale *Troy/an/a, -o / = A: Troy, Ilium F: Troie, Ilion G: Troja H: Troya, Ili=F3n I: Troia [citt=E0= ] R: Troya E: Trojo *Volg.a [river.] / fluvio, la maxim longa di Europa / = A: Volga F: (la) Volga G: Wolga H: (r=EDo) Volga I: (fiume) Volga R: Volga = E: Volgo {FINO} From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1546 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65986 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2005 00:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2005 00:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.59) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2005 00:45:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 61846 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2005 00:45:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20050224004555.61844.qmail@web26609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.49] by web26609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:45:54 CET Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:45:54 +0100 (CET) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.59 From: Partaka Subject: Questiono lingual X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara Robert e cetera samlinguani: Me tre prizus saveskar e lernar' quale diferas frazi quala, por exemplo: 1 - "omno quan me facas" ed "omno quon me facas" 2 - "to quan me lektis" e "to quon me lektis" Me questionas me, kad amba formi esas korekta o nur un ek oli, e pro quo. Kad ulu savas o konjektas? Predanko por via helpo ed intereso. P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1547 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66688 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2005 19:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2005 19:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2005 19:15:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 16459 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2005 19:15:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20050224191517.16457.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.137] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:15:17 CET Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:15:17 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2005221214349.744078@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.60 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto! Yen mea komenti, nur pri kelki ek la vorti propozata en la suba listo. Voluntez serchar e lektar oli adsur la listo ipsa. Danko e til balde! P A R T A K A --- Robert skribis: --------------------------------- Yen listo q1 di 41 posibla nova vorti (ja mencionita hike antee) pronta por decido, pri acepto o ne-acepto, da la Direktanta Komitato di ULI. Nun esas lasta invito komentar ante ofro dil vorti al DK. Multa altra nova vorti esas preparata. Robert. A=angla; F=franca; G=germana; H=hispana; I=italiana; R=rusa; E=Esperanto; L=latina [tr]=transitiva; [ntr]=netransitiva; ~=tradukuro neexakta Literi inter kramponi {TALE} esas privata noto pri fonto di Latina nomo *altokumulus.o [meteor.] / sorto di nubo (quale kumuluso, nimbo e.c.) / A: altocumulus F: altocumulus G: Altocumulus, Haufenwolke H: altoc�mulo, altoc�mulus I: altocumulo R: vjsokokuchyevoye oblako *altostrat.o [meteor.] / sorto di nubo / A: altostratus F: altostratus G: Altostratus, hohe Schichtwolke H: altoestrato, altostratus I: altostrato R: vjsokospoistoye oblako *bel.o [fiz.] / unajo di relativa son-intenseso; vid. anke *decibelo. La vorto esus teorie ambigua, ma extreme rare to povus esar problemo / A: bel [phys.] F: bel G: Bel H: bel, belio I: bel R: bel E: belo + Forsan, ni anke devus konsiderar la min ambigua vorto *belio. Tamen, se ni uzos maxim ofte la formo plural, *beli ya semblas suficanta, e plu bona kam *belii. *benzodiazepin.o [kem.] / medikamento quietigiva e dormigiva / A: benzodiazepine F: benzodiaz�pine G: Benzodiazepin H: benzodiazepina I: benzodiazepina R: byenzodiazyepin E: benzodiazepino *bombix.o [insekto] / papiliono qua, kande vermatra, silkifas / A: bombyx, silkworm or silkworm moth F: bombyx G: Seidenspinner H: gusano de seda I: bombice R: shyelkopryad; shyelkovichny cherv' E: bombikso L: Bombyx (mori) *celest.o [muz.] / muzik-instrumento kun klavaro. Nomizita pro plu frua senco (A celestial, F c�leste e.c.) = "cielala" (amba senci) / A: celesta, celeste F: c�lesta G: Celesta H: celeste I: celesta, celeste R: celesta E: celesto *Cheki.a [lando] / land-nomo, kontraste a stat-nomo (Cheka Republiko) - difero ofte ignorata. Simile: Sud-Afrika e Republiko di Sud-Afrika; Chinia e Republiko Populala di Chinia / A: Czech Republic F: R�publique tch�que G: Tschechien, Tschechische Republik H: la Rep�blica Checa I: Repubblica c�ca R: Cheshkaya Respublika E: C^eh^io, C^eh^ujo, C^eh^a Respubliko *cyan.a [koloro] / koloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. Dan: cyan; Ned: blauwgroen, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco / A: cyan [colour] F: cyan [bleu-vert] G: Blaugruen H: azul verdoso I: ciano R: cian + Tal vorto semblas ne fitar a nia linguo. Forsan, ni devus adoptar formo quala *bluverda, *bluverdea o simila. Altra posibla solvuro: *ciyano. *deci.bel.o [fiz. e.c.] / unajo di relativa son-intenseso, decimo di *belo; abreviuro: dB / A: decibel F: d�cibel G: Dezibel H: decibel, decibelio I: decibel R: dyecibyel E: decibelo + Same kam pri *belo: *decibelio aspektas bone, ma plurale, *decibeli suficas ed es plu bona kam *decibelii. *dextros.o [kem.] / formo di glikoso / A: dextrose F: dextrose G: Dextrose H: dextrosa I: destrosio R: dekstroza E: dekstroglukozo, dekstrozo* *dipol.o [fiz.] / du proxima egala ma kontrea "kargaji" elektrala o poli magnetala / A: dipole [two close equal but opposite electric charges or magnetic poles] F: dip�le [ensemble de deux charges �lectriques ou magn�tiques infiniment voisines et de signes oppos�s] G: Dipol [Physik] H: dipolo I: dipolo R: dipol' E: dipolo *dubni.o [elem.] / elem. kem. 105 (Db) / A: dubnium F: dubnium G: Dubnium H: dubnio I: dubnio R: dubniy E: dubnio *Ege.a [mar.] / pri la maro e la insuli: *Egea maro [q.v.], *Egea insuli / A: Aegean [sea, islands] F: �g�e [mer], de la mer �g�e [�les] G: �g�isch H: egeo I: egeo R: egeyskiy E: Egea *ekistik.o [cienco] / cienco pri homala koloniizo / A: ekistics F: �kistique G: Ekistik H: equ�stica, ekistica I: echistica R: ekistika *eskalator.o [aparato] / mashinala eskalero "rulanta" o "movanta" (ma ne qua rulas, o movas, de loko a loko!) / A: escalator F: escalier roulant (ou) m�canique, escalator G: Rolltreppe H: escalera rodante / mec�nica / autom�tica I: scala mobile R: eskalator E: ruls^tuparo *estr.o [zool.] / stando o fazo periodala di mamiferino kande fekunda; tale *estrala = A: oestrous, estrous, F: oestral, H: estral / A: oestrus, [US] estrus [heat, mammalian sexual impulse] F: oestrus G: Oestrus, Brunst H: estro I: estro (venereo), calore R: tyechka E: oestro + Cakaze, forsan esus konvenanta ne adoptar vorto qua aspektas same kam nia sufixo "estr-". *fosforit.o [min.] / mineralo / A: phosphorite F: phosphorite G: Phosphorit H: fosforita I: fosforite R: fosforit E: fosforito *gaur.o [mamif.] / bovo sovaja di sud-Azia / A: gaur F: gaur G: Gaur H: gaur I: gaur R: gaur E: gau`ro L: Bos gaurus = Bos frontalis *geiser.o [geol.] / fonto naturala qua de tempo a tempo ekjetas aquo varmega e vaporo. Pri alternative formo "geysero", la sistemo fonetikala di Ido ne permisas ol. / A: geyser F: geyser G: Geiser H: g�iser I: geyser R: geyzer E: gejsero *geomorfologi.o [cienco] / cienco pri surfaco di Tero ed olua formi / A: geomorphology, physical geography, physiography F: g�omorphologie G: Geomorphologie H: geomorfolog�a I: geomorfologia R: gyeomorfologiya E: geomorfologio *glamor.o / facino loganta; atraktiveso facinanta. Tale *glamoroza / A: glamour, [US] glamor F: glamour G: Glamour; Glanz H: glamour I: glamour, fascino intenso R: charj, charuyushchiye silj, volshyebstvo, sharm, ocharovaniye *guanak.o [mamif.] / animalo simila a lamao / A: guanaco F: guanaco G: Guanako H: guanaco [mam�fero] I: guanaco [mammifero] R: guanako E: guanako L: Lama guanicoe *hafni.o [elem.] / elemento kemiala 72 (Hf) / A: hafnium F: hafnium G: Hafnium H: hafnio I: afnio R: gafniy E: hafnio *hematom.o [medic.] / sorto di intumecajo sangoza en tisuo / A: haematoma, [US] hematoma F: h�matome G: Bluterguss, H�matom H: hematoma I: ematoma R: gyematoma E: hematomo *henri.o [mez.] / unajo elektrofizikala di indukto, nomita pro Joseph Henry / A: henry F: henry G: Henry H: Henrio I: henry R: Genriy E: henro *hipertermi.o [patol.] / supernorma korpala temperaturo / A: hyperthermia F: hyperthermie G: Hyperthermie H: hipertermia I: ipertermia R: gipyertyermiya E: hipertermio *hipokaust.o [arkit.] / anciena Romana aparato por varmigo di domo / A: hypocaust F: hypocauste G: Hypokaustum H: hipocausto I: ipocausto R: gipokaust E: hipokausto *hipoklorit.o [kem.] / kemiajo / A: hypochlorite F: hypochlorite G: Hypochlorit H: hipoclorito I: ipoclorito R: gipokhlorit E: hipoklorito *hipotalam.o [anat.] / parto di cerebro / A: hypothalamus F: hypothalamus G: Hypothalamus H: hipot�lamo I: ipotalamo R: gipotalamus E: hipotalamo *hipotermi.o [patol.] / maladige subnorma korpala temperaturo / A: hypothermia F: hypothermie G: Unterk�hlung, K�ltetod, Hyothermie H: hipotermia I: ipotermia R: gipotermiya E: hipotermio, algideco *histerektomi.o [medic.] / ablaciono di utero / A: hysterectomy F: hyst�rectomie G: Hysterektomie H: histerectom�a I: isterectomia R: gistyerektomiya, udalyeniye matki E: uterektomio *hokey.o / sporto / A: hockey F: hockey G: Hockey H: hockey I: hockey R: khokkey E: hokeo + Me preferas *hokeo, same kam en Esperanto, tale evitante la finajo sufixal "ey." Olim ni diskutis pri ta vorto e, se me bone memoras, ol ja aparabis kom *hokeo che anciena listo di posibla nova vorti. Tamen, *hokeyo esus adoptinda, kaze ke ni ne ja havas la vorto "hok.o". *ibex.o [mamif.] / mamifero simila a kapro / A: ibex F: bouquetin, ibex G: Steinbock H: �bex, �bice I: stambecco E: ibekso L: Capra ibex *ideogram.o / simbolo qua reprezentas ideo o vorto, quale en skriburo chiniana / A: ideogram, ideograph F: id�ogramme G: Ideogramm H: ideograma I: ideogramma R: idyeogramma E: ideogramo *ionosfer.o [meteor.] / alta strato di atmosfero / A: ionosphere F: ionosph�re G: Ionosph�re H: ionosfera I: ionosfera R: ionosfyera E: jonosfero *kashu.o [bot.] / parto manjebla (*nuco) de arboro *anakardio / A: cashew-nut F: noix de cajou, noix de caju, noix d'acajou G: Cashewnuss, Elefantenlaus H: (nuez de) anacardo I: noce (o nocciolina) di acagi� R: kesh'yu E: akaj^u-nukso, anakardio *Pakistan [lando] A: Pakistan F: Pakistan G: Pakistan H: Pakist�n, Paquist�n I: Pakistan R: Pakistan E: Pakistano *reologi.o [cienco e.c.] / fiziko di fluo e formo di materio, specale viskozeso di fluidi / A: rheology F: rh�ologie G: Rheologie H: reolog�a I: reologia R: ryeologiya E: reologio *Tahiti [lando] / tale "Tahiti-ana" (ne "Tahit-i" e "Tahit-ana"). Ni ja havas la vorti "Haiti" e "Havayi" / A: Tahiti F: Tahiti G: Tahiti H: Tahit� I: Tahiti R: Taiti E: Tahitio *Troy.a / urbo antiqua di Avan-Azia. Tale *Troy/an/a, -o / A: Troy, Ilium F: Troie, Ilion G: Troja H: Troya, Ili�n I: Troia [citt�] R: Troya E: Trojo *Volg.a [river.] / fluvio, la maxim longa di Europa / A: Volga F: (la) Volga G: Wolga H: (r�o) Volga I: (fiume) Volga R: Volga E: Volgo {FINO} ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1548 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51280 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2005 21:32:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2005 21:32:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2005 21:32:14 -0000 Received: from gr.189.167.20.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.167.20] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D4n4G-000E70-Ox for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:32:13 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:33:56 GMT Message-ID: <2005225213356.008561@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050224191517.16457.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Partaka, Me ne komprenas pro quo vu konsideras *cyana kom ne-apta. Ka= pro la litero "y"? Ja esas en Ido: myelo, myelino, myelito, ya, yakto, yar= do, yatagano, yodlar, yugo, yuna, yuro, yusta. La litero "y" ya darfas esar= avan vokalo (esar dop vokalo, sen dopa vokalo, esas altra afero). Pri *ho= keyo, vu esas justa pri la ambigueso. Me propozos *hokeo, quale vu sugestas= . Pri *belo e *decibelo, semblas ke la unesma esas rare uzata, ma necesa p= recipue kom bazo por la duesma! Do, la posibleso di ambigueso semblas esar = mikra. Robert. _________________ Vu skribis, interaltre: =A0Kordial sal= uto! =A0Yen mea komenti, nur pri kelki ek la vorti propozata en la suba = =A0listo. =A0Voluntez serchar e lektar oli adsur la listo ipsa. Danko e til= balde! =A0P A R T A K A =A0*bel.o [fiz.] =A0/ unajo di relativa son-i= ntenseso; vid. anke *decibelo. La vorto =A0esus teorie =A0ambigua, ma extre= me rare to povus esar problemo / A: bel [phys.] F: =A0bel G: Bel H: bel, be= lio I: bel R: bel E: belo =A0+ Forsan, ni anke devus konsiderar la min amb= igua vorto *belio. =A0Tamen, se ni uzos maxim ofte la formo plural, *beli y= a semblas =A0suficanta, e plu bona kam *belii. =A0*cyan.a [koloro] =A0/ k= oloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. Dan: cyan; Ned: =A0blauwgro= en, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco / A: cyan =A0[colour] F: cyan= [bleu-vert] G: Blaugruen H: azul verdoso I: ciano =A0R: cian =A0+ Tal vor= to semblas ne fitar a nia linguo. Forsan, ni devus adoptar =A0formo quala *= bluverda, *bluverdea o simila. Altra posibla solvuro: * =A0ciyano. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1549 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95093 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 01:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 01:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 01:00:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 99354 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Feb 2005 01:00:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20050226010033.99352.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.193] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:00:33 CET Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:00:33 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2005225213356.008561@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.60 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Exkuzez me, Robert! Forsan me ipsa es qua ne ja tote komprenas la nuna funciono di nia litero "y". Segun me kredas, ol esis olima mi-konsonanto, ma ol es nuntempa plena konsonanto. Tale, vorto quala *cyana' esus, sive "cya-na" (ube "y" agus kom mi-konsonanto), sive "c-ya-na" (tre des-eufonioza). Pro lo' me propozis *ciyana, ultre *bluverda, *bluverdea o simila. Sama problemon me trovas en vorti quala "myelo, myelino e myelito", ma ne en la ceteri quin tu citas. Me anke kelke komentis pri l' vorto *estr.o, quan me konsideras esar evitinda, nam ni ja havas "estr." kom sufixo. Sugesti: *oestr.o (*oestr.al.a), *estre.o (*estre.al.a). Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A --- Robert skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Me ne komprenas pro quo vu konsideras *cyana kom ne-apta. Ka pro la litero "y"? Ja esas en Ido: myelo, myelino, myelito, ya, yakto, yardo, yatagano, yodlar, yugo, yuna, yuro, yusta. La litero "y" ya darfas esar avan vokalo (esar dop vokalo, sen dopa vokalo, esas altra afero). Pri *hokeyo, vu esas justa pri la ambigueso. Me propozos *hokeo, quale vu sugestas. Pri *belo e *decibelo, semblas ke la unesma esas rare uzata, ma necesa precipue kom bazo por la duesma! Do, la posibleso di ambigueso semblas esar mikra. Robert. _________________ Vu skribis, interaltre: �Kordial saluto! �Yen mea komenti, nur pri kelki ek la vorti propozata en la suba �listo. �Voluntez serchar e lektar oli adsur la listo ipsa. Danko e til balde! �P A R T A K A �*bel.o [fiz.] �/ unajo di relativa son-intenseso; vid. anke *decibelo. La vorto �esus teorie �ambigua, ma extreme rare to povus esar problemo / A: bel [phys.] F: �bel G: Bel H: bel, belio I: bel R: bel E: belo �+ Forsan, ni anke devus konsiderar la min ambigua vorto *belio. �Tamen, se ni uzos maxim ofte la formo plural, *beli ya semblas �suficanta, e plu bona kam *belii. �*cyan.a [koloro] �/ koloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. Dan: cyan; Ned: �blauwgroen, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco / A: cyan �[colour] F: cyan [bleu-vert] G: Blaugruen H: azul verdoso I: ciano �R: cian �+ Tal vorto semblas ne fitar a nia linguo. Forsan, ni devus adoptar �formo quala *bluverda, *bluverdea o simila. Altra posibla solvuro: * �ciyano. ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1550 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44425 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 01:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 01:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sutherland.numericable.net) (80.236.3.117) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 01:38:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 1785 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 01:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by sutherland.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Feb 2005 01:38:36 -0000 Message-ID: <002801c51ba4$a6567e80$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <2005221214349.744078@SonyFX805> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:44:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.117 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Me konkordas kun Partaka ke *cyan.a semblas ne fitar a nia = linguo. > / koloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. > Dan: cyan; = Ned: > blauwgroen, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco > / > A: cyan = [colour] > F: cyan [bleu-vert] > G: Blaugruen += Me trovis "zyanblau" kun Systran dicionario > H: azul verdoso = + Me trovis "cian" kun Systran dicionario > I: ciano > R: cia= n Me preferus ciana ma ca adjektivo ja existas en la franca-ido dicionari= o di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufont por : F: cian=E9 ( qua kontenas toxika ga= zo de karbono ed azoto nomizita ciano) A: cianic Fakte ciano existas por = : A: cyanogen F: cyanog=E8ne G: Dicyan H: cian=F3geno I : cianogene Ma se = on havus *cianogeno (o *cianojeno) vice ciano e *cianogeniza (o *cianojen= iza) vice ciana , on povus adoptar ciana por la koloro Tale la tri kolori = fondamentala di la sintezo adicionala di kolori esas reda, verda e blua = blua +verda =3D ciana reda+blua =3D *magenta ed olti di la sintez= o sustracionala di kolori esus ciana , *magenta e flava Ma desfortune = me timas ke la konservemo qua regnas che l'Idistaro ne posibligar lo! Amik= ale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1551 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89090 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 01:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 01:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sutherland.numericable.net) (80.236.3.117) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 01:53:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 2515 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 01:53:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by sutherland.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 Feb 2005 01:53:51 -0000 Message-ID: <005101c51ba6$c7a00000$bf60dc51@landloic> To: Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:59:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.117 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) + X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Me konkordas kun Partaka ke *cyan.a semblas ne fitar a nia = linguo. > / koloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. > Dan: cyan; = Ned: > blauwgroen, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco > / > A: cyan = [colour] > F: cyan [bleu-vert] > G: Blaugruen += Me trovis "zyanblau" kun Systran dicionario > H: azul verdoso = + Me trovis "cian" kun Systran dicionario > I: ciano > R: cia= n Me preferus ciana ma ca adjektivo ja existas en la franca-ido dicionari= o di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufont por : F: cian=E9 ( qua kontenas toxika ga= zo de karbono ed azoto nomizita ciano) A: cianic Fakte ciano existas por = : A: cyanogen F: cyanog=E8ne G: Dicyan H: cian=F3geno I : cianogene Ma se = on havus *cianogeno (o *cianojeno) vice ciano e *cianogeniza (o *cianojen= iza) vice ciana , on povus adoptar ciana por la koloro Tale la tri kolori = fondamentala di la sintezo adicionala di kolori esas reda, verda e blua = blua +verda =3D ciana reda+blua =3D *magenta ed = olti di la sintezo sustracionala di kolori esus ciana , *magenta e flava = Ma desfortune me timas ke la konservemo qua regnas che l'Idistaro ne posib= ligar lo! Amikale Loik [Non-text portions of this message have been remo= ved] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1552 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94546 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 11:14:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 11:14:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 11:14:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2005 11:14:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2005 11:14:58 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 11:14:28 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005221214349.744078@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1847 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.49 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Danko, Robert, pro la listo. Ol es kurta ma bona, necesa ed utila. Me kon= sentas ad omna vorti e formi propozita, kun du ecepti: hokey.o Mala elekt= o. Tradicione la grupo -ey de lingui natural divenas -eo en Ido: jokeo (< = A jockey), poneo (< F poney < A pony). Anke `hockey' devus divenar `hokeo'= en Ido, por respektar la tradiciono e pro eufonio: `hokeo' sonas blu bele= kam `hokeyo', ed es plu facila facar derivuri departante de `hoke-' kam d= e `hokey-' (ex. `hokeisto'). kashu.o Mala elekto. La etimo dil vorto es P= acaju [la j Portugalana sonas quale la j Franca e la j en Ido], e ca vort= o trovesas kun minima chanji en la Franca ed Italiana, e mem en la Germana= nomo dil arboro (Acajoubaum). La Hispana, ne kapabla pronuncar la soni j = e sh, ne povis adoptar la vorto e prenis `anacardo' kom surogato. La form= o `kashuo' es tro Anglatra e tote ne egardas la cetera fonto- lingui di Ido= . Multe plu internaciona ed equilibranta esus `kajuo'. La nomo dil arboro = evidente esus `kajuiero'. Me esperas ke ULI ne iteros la antea miselekto d= i `potato' (en la listo de 2001), altra Anglatra idiotismo sen internacion= a susteno. Altra komenti: 1) En ca listo, same kam en la listi de 2001 e = 1998 ed en omna antea dicionarii, mankas `epopeo', tre bela e tote interna= ciona vorto, multe plu klara kam `epikajo' od `epika poemo' (ne omna epika= ji es epopei!). Ca vorto es DFIRSP. Nu, me savas ke la Angla indijas ol. = Tamen me esperas ke to ne es la motivo di olua oblivieso til nun... 2) Pro= quo adjuntesas la formi Esperantal al tradicional sistemo DEFIRS? La elek= ti Esperantal es ofte arbitrial e ne sequas la ciencoza kriterii di Ido. M= e esperas ke en la imprimita listo final tal formi ne aparos. Omna-kaze op= ortus prizentar la formi korekta: en Esperanto on dicas `gvanako' vice `gu= anako'. Kun kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1553 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35844 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 12:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 12:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 12:52:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2005 12:52:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2005 12:52:33 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:52:33 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050224004555.61844.qmail@web26609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1218 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.20 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Questiono lingual X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Partaka questionis: > Me tre prizus saveskar e lernar' quale diferas fraz= i > quala, por exemplo: > 1 - "omno quan me facas" ed "omno quon me facas" = > 2 - "to quan me lektis" e "to quon me lektis" La difero es tre simpla: e= n "omno quon me facas" existas konkordo (bona Ido), dum ke en "omno quan m= e facas" ne existas konkordo (mala Ido). Sama rezono pri la duesma exemplo= . Yen exempli di simila konkordi en Ido: (i)ta/qua (i)ca/qua (i)ti/qui (= i)ci/qui (i)to/quo (i)co/quo Beaufront en KGD explikas: =ABOn uzas 'quo' n= ur kande parolesas pri kozo dedeterminita; on uzas 'qua' kande parolesas p= ri kozo determinita.=BB (p. 38) Yen exempli klariganta. "La hundo quan m= e vidis" ['hundo' es kozo determinita: do oportas uzar 'qua'] "Paulus kom= prenis omno quon Petrus dicis" ['omno' es kozo nedeterminita (on ya ne sav= as ka Petrus dicis joki, teoremi, equacioni, asnalaji, edc; on savas nur k= e Paulus komprenis omno): do oportas uzar 'quo'] Ta konkordi en Ido es kl= ara, evidenta e limpida, e la sameso dil literi final eskartas omna dubiti= : tA/quA, tI/quI, omnO/quO, edc. La problemi naskas kande on komencas trad= ukar a sua matrala linguo vice pensar direte en Ido... Kordiala saluti, = Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1554 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33431 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 13:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 13:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 13:03:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2005 13:03:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2005 13:03:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:03:44 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 471 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: cyana/ciana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Me tote ne komprenas la objecioni kontre la vorto 'cyana'. 'y' es mi- kons= onanto en Ido, e kom mi-konsonanto ol darfas preirar irga vokalo, quale Ro= bert explikis en sua respondo. La vorto 'cyana' es dusilaba (cya-na), dum = ke 'ciana' es trisilaba (ci-a-na). Do lia pronunco es diferanta, quankam t= re simila. Sama rezono pri 'mielo' (trisilaba: mi-e-lo) e 'myelo'(dusilaba= : mye-lo). Esez do bonvenanta 'cyana', tote apta Ido-vorto. Saluti kordi= al, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1555 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29593 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2005 19:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2005 19:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.58) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2005 19:12:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 67894 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Feb 2005 19:12:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20050226191229.67892.qmail@web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.126] by web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:12:29 CET Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:12:29 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.58 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Questiono lingual X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Goncalo! Me tre dankas tua maxim informiva e detaloza respondo, pri olqua me tote konkordas. Fakte, me povus signatir simila expliko kam tua, ma per min bona Ido e min granda detalozeso. To quon tu skribis es, exakte, to quon me konjektabis e deduktabis pri ca temo, quan me prizis ya klarigar. Recevez mea maxim sincera gratitudeso! P A R T A K A --- Goncalo Neves skribis: --------------------------------- Partaka questionis: > Me tre prizus saveskar e lernar' quale diferas frazi > quala, por exemplo: > 1 - "omno quan me facas" ed "omno quon me facas" > 2 - "to quan me lektis" e "to quon me lektis" La difero es tre simpla: en "omno quon me facas" existas konkordo (bona Ido), dum ke en "omno quan me facas" ne existas konkordo (mala Ido). Sama rezono pri la duesma exemplo. Yen exempli di simila konkordi en Ido: (i)ta/qua (i)ca/qua (i)ti/qui (i)ci/qui (i)to/quo (i)co/quo Beaufront en KGD explikas: �On uzas 'quo' nur kande parolesas pri kozo dedeterminita; on uzas 'qua' kande parolesas pri kozo determinita.� (p. 38) Yen exempli klariganta. "La hundo quan me vidis" ['hundo' es kozo determinita: do oportas uzar 'qua'] "Paulus komprenis omno quon Petrus dicis" ['omno' es kozo nedeterminita (on ya ne savas ka Petrus dicis joki, teoremi, equacioni, asnalaji, edc; on savas nur ke Paulus komprenis omno): do oportas uzar 'quo'] Ta konkordi en Ido es klara, evidenta e limpida, e la sameso dil literi final eskartas omna dubiti: tA/quA, tI/quI, omnO/quO, edc. La problemi naskas kande on komencas tradukar a sua matrala linguo vice pensar direte en Ido... Kordiala saluti, Gon�alo Neves ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1556 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68298 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2005 02:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2005 02:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60810.mail.yahoo.com) (216.155.196.73) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2005 02:37:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 7812 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2005 02:37:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=HgDchEHSnf7kQ6f0zJJ+TItH58PmS5cIZ4yZ9FNqL8VynVHTWNKsawI/reBGGM1/j+XN9+AqebDiVJ142St4S0mYf66VFb+yBUAMcEtru5d751Qum1JIFcdIKTCPaRfTyXn9cJeJOdY6Qd/2Ssg0JkxzW9r4/VnZvpPNcMAPphU= ; Message-ID: <20050227023714.7810.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60810.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:37:14 PST Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:37:14 -0800 (PST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050226191229.67892.qmail@web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 216.155.196.73 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Questiono lingual X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gratitudo! (Vu esas gratitudoza.) Partaka skribis: Recevez mea maxim sincera gratitudeso! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1557 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66483 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2005 03:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2005 03:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.158) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2005 03:18:18 -0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050227031805.RXHC22141.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:18:05 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050227031805.NMCJ8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:18:05 +1300 To: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:18:05 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050227031805.NMCJ8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.158 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] cyana/ciana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Goncalo e samideani, Desfortunoze la dicionarii di Ido nun es antiquat= ra por kemio e fiziko. La sugestita vorto =91cyano=92 (por koloro) semblas = apta ma me havas poka dubiti. Unesme la litero =91y=92 havis vokalo-funcion= o (exemple =91gloryo=92) ma nun ol es konsonanto o kelkatempe =91mikonsona= nto=92. En la vorto =91cyano=92 segun Ido-pronunco ni havas grupo di tri ko= nsonanto-soni: =91t + s + y=92. Tala grupo es desfacila por certena = lingui ma ne eventas en =91myelino=92, (du konsonanto-soni, =91m + y = =92). Me agnoskas ke tempope Ido havas grupo di tri konsonanti, exemple =91= streko=92, ma avantajo di Ido es la desaparo di tala grupi quale en =91scia= s=92 e =91funkcio=92 di Esperanto. Do me preferas =93ciano=94 (kom Itala) p= or la koloro. La existanta vorto =91ciano=92 es antiquatra ed efacinda nam = la moderna nomo es =91cianogeno=92 (gaso qua nur kontenas C e N). Konseque = la vorto =91ciano=92 es libera por la koloro (importanta en fiziko). ( La k= oloro di la kemiala kompozaji e la fizikala vorto havas la sama origino de = la Greka =91kyan=92 =3D blu-verda). La kemiala nomi en Ido semblas uzar la = direta Angla sistemo, exemple A: potassium cyanide (KCN) es en Ido =91kalio= cianido=92ne la F: cyanure de potasse. Ma la nomo =91cianido di kalio=92 a= nke semblas apta. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Goncalo Neves" = > Date: 2005/02/27 Sun AM 02:03:44 GMT+13:00 > = To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] cyana/ciana > > [No= n-text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1558 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16182 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2005 10:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2005 10:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO miner.numericable.net) (80.236.3.113) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2005 10:52:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 931 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2005 10:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by miner.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 27 Feb 2005 10:52:52 -0000 Message-ID: <005001c51cbb$3ee0a920$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "linguolisto" References: <20050227031805.NMCJ8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:58:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.113 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] cyana/ciana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara samideani, Me enregistragis la diskutado pri *cyana/ciana en la forumo di asociitaro Ido-France ne por remplacar la forumo linguolisto ma por montrar a vizitanti exemplo de linguala diskutado inter Idisti. http://www.ido-france.org/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=11&topic=6 Me esperas ke mea inicio ne skokos vu. Amikale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1559 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22917 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2005 15:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2005 15:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.57) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2005 15:24:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 94319 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2005 15:24:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20050227152407.94316.qmail@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.147] by web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:24:07 CET Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:24:07 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050227023714.7810.qmail@web60810.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.57 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Questiono lingual X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas --- Don Gasper skribis: --------------------------------- Gratitudo! (Vu esas gratitudoza.) Partaka skribis: Recevez mea maxim sincera gratitudeso! ---------------------------------- Dankego, Don, pro tua korektigo! Me kelke hezitis inter "gratitudo" e "gratitudeso", e me fine decidis uzar ica lasta formo. Tamen, pro tua granda vortala "spensemeso " (tu esas ya spensema pri vorti), me mustos, depos nun, deduktar e lernar da me ipsa' quale profitar admaxime tal korektigo, e quon ol signifikas ed implikas... - gratitudar, gratitudoza (kun "gratitudo"), gratitudo. - violentar, violentoza (kun "violento"), violento. - prosperar, prosperoza (kun "prospero"), prospero. Tamen: - felica e feliceso (ne "felicoza e felico") Nula "felicar". - fiera e fiereso (ne "fieroza e fiero") Nula "fierar". - leda e ledeso (ne "ledoza e ledo") Nula "ledar". Me ne ja savas, ka me marcheskabas en la maxim bona voyo, ma me es certa, ke tua korektigo esabas tre utila a me. Itere danko, kara Don! Recevez mea gratulo (ne "gratuleso") Verbo: gratular. Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1560 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70445 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2005 21:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2005 21:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2005 21:10:44 -0000 Received: from gr.189.164.42.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.164.42] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D5VgS-0008EH-Gj for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:10:37 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:14:09 GMT Message-ID: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.92 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, ed anke Loic e Partaka, Esas bona lektar via komenti, por = qui me esas gratitudoza. Me evidente bezonas helpo. Me traktas centi de vo= rti quin Ido mankas, e me povas tro facile ignorar de tempo a tempo ul aspe= kto konsiderinda, o simple erorar. Esas vera ke, quale on dicas, "plura kap= i esas plu bona kam un". Pri *estro, me komprenas la problemo. Etimologie = konektita kun ol esas vorti quale *estradiolo, estriolo, estrogeno ed estro= no. Me invitas komenti. Pri *hokeyo, me ya konsentas ke *hokeo esas prefer= inda, e ne nur pro ambigueso. Pri *kashuo e *kajuo, la Angla (cashew), Ger= mana (Cashewnuss) e Rusa (kesh'yu) havas la sono "sh", dum ke la Franca ("a= cajou") e Portugalana (acaju), quan normale ni ne egardas (pardonez!), hava= s la sono "j". Ka "sh" vere esas min internaciona? Pri la arboro, por la Ge= rmana me havas (de 2000-pagina vortaro di 1999) "Nierenbaum" e vu havas "Ac= ajoubaum", forsan amba bona, ma me povas trovar nek Acajoubaum nek Nierenba= um en Duden! Quon opinionas altri pri *kashuo e *kajuo? Pri "potato", ka p= referinda esus "kartoflo" (propozata en Pesch), o "terpomo" (precipue Franc= ajo, simila al olima propozo di "kat-urso" ante adopto di pando), od ulo al= tra? La vorto "potato" (quan Jean Martignon anke multe desprizas) aparis en= preske nula vortaro (nur un mikra listo) segun mea savo, do semblas ke ni = senjene povus rikonsiderar ta decido se esas forta opinioni kontre ol. Pri= *epopeo, nun propozata, me adjuntos ol a mea listo e serchos tradukuri. Vo= rtaro Franca-Angla (833 pagini) donas "=E9pop=E9e =3D epic" ma supozeble to= ne esas exakta. Pri la vorto en Esperanto por *guanako, forsan me misskri= bis (povus eventar). Tamen, no! Me trovas la formo "guanako" en vortari Esp= eranto-Angla (Britania, 1967); Angla-Esperanto (Usa, 1995); Esperanto-Itali= ana (Italia, 1991). Nun me trovas en altra libro "gvanako". Se la Esperanti= sti ne interkonsentas, ne blamez me! To certe ne esas la unesma foyo kande = me trovis manko di konsento inter vortari. Pri la inkluzo di tradukuri en = Esperanto, esas plura motivi: (1) Inkluzo povas helpar ni kande ni serchas = apta vorto por Ido, ma ni certe ne bezonas sequar Esperanto. (2) Inkluzo po= vas helpar ni kande on serchas tradukuri en nacionala lingui. (3) Future ol= esos utila por vortaro Ido-Esperanto. Tamen, yes, ne esas mea intenco inkl= uzar Esperanto en la vortari por nacionala lingui. Simile, me esforcas inkl= uzar la (moderna) Latina linguo, precipue por planti ed animali, pro la mot= ivi 1 e 2. Kordiale, Robert __________________ Gon=E7alo Neves skribis:= Danko, Robert, pro la listo. Ol es kurta ma bona, necesa ed utila. Me kon= sentas ad omna vorti e formi propozita, kun du ecepti: hokey.o Mala elekt= o. Tradicione la grupo -ey de lingui natural divenas -eo en Ido: jokeo (<= =A0A jockey), poneo (<=A0F poney <=A0A pony). Anke `hockey' devus divenar `= hokeo' en Ido, por respektar la tradiciono e pro eufonio: `hokeo' sonas blu= bele kam `hokeyo', ed es plu facila facar derivuri departante de `hoke-' k= am de `hokey-' (ex. `hokeisto'). kashu.o Mala elekto. La etimo dil vorto = es P acaju [la j Portugalana sonas quale la j Franca e la j en Ido], e ca v= orto trovesas kun minima chanji en la Franca ed Italiana, e mem en la Germa= na nomo dil arboro (Acajoubaum). La Hispana, ne kapabla pronuncar la soni j= e sh, ne povis adoptar la vorto e prenis `anacardo' kom surogato. La formo= `kashuo' es tro Anglatra e tote ne egardas la cetera fonto- lingui di Ido.= Multe plu internaciona ed equilibranta esus `kajuo'. La nomo dil arboro ev= idente esus `kajuiero'. Me esperas ke ULI ne iteros la antea miselekto di `= potato' (en la listo de 2001), altra Anglatra idiotismo sen internaciona su= steno. Altra komenti: 1) En ca listo, same kam en la listi de 2001 e 1998= ed en omna antea dicionarii, mankas `epopeo', tre bela e tote internaciona= vorto, multe plu klara kam `epikajo' od `epika poemo' (ne omna epikaji es = epopei!). Ca vorto es DFIRSP. Nu, me savas ke la Angla indijas ol. Tamen me= esperas ke to ne es la motivo di olua oblivieso til nun... 2) Pro quo adj= untesas la formi Esperantal al tradicional sistemo DEFIRS? La elekti Espera= ntal es ofte arbitrial e ne sequas la ciencoza kriterii di Ido. Me esperas = ke en la imprimita listo final tal formi ne aparos. Omna-kaze oportus prize= ntar la formi korekta: en Esperanto on dicas `gvanako' vice `guanako'. Kun= kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1561 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54967 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 00:01:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2005 00:01:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sutherland.numericable.net) (80.236.3.117) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2005 00:01:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 7209 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 00:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by sutherland.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 28 Feb 2005 00:01:26 -0000 Message-ID: <00df01c51d29$681b2040$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:06:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.117 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Robert, Pri *cyana, vu oblivis respondar a mea propozo. Me anke adjuntis *magenta e propozis *cianogeno vice ciano. Ma forsan vu ne ankor decidis pri to. Kordiale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert" � : Envoy� : dimanche 27 f�vrier 2005 22:14 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) Kara Gon�alo, ed anke Loic e Partaka, Esas bona lektar via komenti, por qui me esas gratitudoza. Me evidente bezonas helpo. Me traktas centi de vorti quin Ido mankas, e me povas tro facile ignorar de tempo a tempo ul aspekto konsiderinda, o simple erorar. Esas vera ke, quale on dicas, "plura kapi esas plu bona kam un". Pri *estro, me komprenas la problemo. Etimologie konektita kun ol esas vorti quale *estradiolo, estriolo, estrogeno ed estrono. Me invitas komenti. Pri *hokeyo, me ya konsentas ke *hokeo esas preferinda, e ne nur pro ambigueso. Pri *kashuo e *kajuo, la Angla (cashew), Germana (Cashewnuss) e Rusa (kesh'yu) havas la sono "sh", dum ke la Franca ("acajou") e Portugalana (acaju), quan normale ni ne egardas (pardonez!), havas la sono "j". Ka "sh" vere esas min internaciona? Pri la arboro, por la Germana me havas (de 2000-pagina vortaro di 1999) "Nierenbaum" e vu havas "Acajoubaum", forsan amba bona, ma me povas trovar nek Acajoubaum nek Nierenbaum en Duden! Quon opinionas altri pri *kashuo e *kajuo? Pri "potato", ka preferinda esus "kartoflo" (propozata en Pesch), o "terpomo" (precipue Francajo, simila al olima propozo di "kat-urso" ante adopto di pando), od ulo altra? La vorto "potato" (quan Jean Martignon anke multe desprizas) aparis en preske nula vortaro (nur un mikra listo) segun mea savo, do semblas ke ni senjene povus rikonsiderar ta decido se esas forta opinioni kontre ol. Pri *epopeo, nun propozata, me adjuntos ol a mea listo e serchos tradukuri. Vortaro Franca-Angla (833 pagini) donas "�pop�e = epic" ma supozeble to ne esas exakta. Pri la vorto en Esperanto por *guanako, forsan me misskribis (povus eventar). Tamen, no! Me trovas la formo "guanako" en vortari Esperanto-Angla (Britania, 1967); Angla-Esperanto (Usa, 1995); Esperanto-Italiana (Italia, 1991). Nun me trovas en altra libro "gvanako". Se la Esperantisti ne interkonsentas, ne blamez me! To certe ne esas la unesma foyo kande me trovis manko di konsento inter vortari. Pri la inkluzo di tradukuri en Esperanto, esas plura motivi: (1) Inkluzo povas helpar ni kande ni serchas apta vorto por Ido, ma ni certe ne bezonas sequar Esperanto. (2) Inkluzo povas helpar ni kande on serchas tradukuri en nacionala lingui. (3) Future ol esos utila por vortaro Ido-Esperanto. Tamen, yes, ne esas mea intenco inkluzar Esperanto en la vortari por nacionala lingui. Simile, me esforcas inkluzar la (moderna) Latina linguo, precipue por planti ed animali, pro la motivi 1 e 2. Kordiale, Robert From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1562 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46665 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 00:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2005 00:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO partridge.numericable.net) (80.236.0.152) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2005 00:23:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 29216 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 00:23:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by partridge.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 28 Feb 2005 00:23:32 -0000 Message-ID: <00ee01c51d2c$7eb3b440$bf60dc51@landloic> To: Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:28:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.0.152 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: *alinear/aliniar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara samideani, Segun la Listo di Nova vorti adoptita dal U.L.I depos 1922 e kompilita da Camiel De Cock on trovas : aliniar 1925: ordinar segun rekta lineo: on alinias planti, soldati, edifici e.c. [G] gerade richten, in Linie bringen, ausrichten [A] to align, to set in line [F] aligner [I] allineare [H] alinear Do konseque la sequanta vorti "rektigar ed enlineigar" devus havar nun altra signifiko kam olti di sequanta dicionarii: Dyer (1922): align: rekt-igar, en-line-igar L.Couturat e L.de Beaufront (1915): aligner: rekt-igar; s'_ : rektigar su Exemple "rektigar" povas uzesar por "[F] redresser" ed "enlineigar" povus uzesar por teknikala vortaro. Pluse pro ke Ido ja havas la substantivo lineo, me opinionas ke *alinear esus multe plu bona kam "aliniar. Do fine me propozas adoptar *alinear vice aliniar, rektigar ed enlineigar. Kordiala saluti. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1563 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10904 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 01:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2005 01:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2005 01:38:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A08A79F for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:08:48 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24143-02 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:08:39 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D7BD2166ED; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:08:38 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C214A79F for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:08:38 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:08:38 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00df01c51d29$681b2040$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> <00df01c51d29$681b2040$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Loic, On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > > Kara Robert, > > Pri *cyana, vu oblivis respondar a mea propozo. > Me anke adjuntis *magenta e propozis *cianogeno vice ciano. > Ma forsan vu ne ankor decidis pri to. > Kordiale > Loik Omna "cyanide", "ferricyanide" (qua esas blua, ma ne havas la blueso di la "cyan" di imprimisti) e "cyanogen" (ula gaso) esas Angla vorti pri diferant enti kemia. Quale ta vorti aspektas en altra lingui? Ka vu derivis vua "cianogeno" de la vera "cyanogen"? Pri ica afero la kemio esas plu fundamentala. Do, ni unesme examenez o facez la Ido vorti pri la kemio, e pose inventez vorto pri la koloro. Ante lo, ne esas dezirinda propozar od aprobar irga vorto pri la koloro. Pose, segun me, ne esos posibla deskonkordar pri la vorto pri la koloro. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1564 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92387 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 01:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2005 01:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2005 01:44:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2005 01:44:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2005 01:44:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:44:50 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050227031805.NMCJ8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 448 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: cyana/ciana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Pos la tre klara ed instruktiva expliko da Richard me havas nur du koment= i: 1) Evidente 'ciana' es plu facile pronuncebla e mem plu 'Idatra' kam '= cyana'. Mea defenso di 'cyana' konsequis nur de mea (ne-korekta) premiso k= e 'ciana' ankore es okupata. 2) Se la moderna kemiala vorto es 'cianogeno'= , e se konseque 'ciano' es libera, me tote konsentas ke ca vorto es plu ap= ta kam 'cyano' por nomizar la koloro. Saluti kordial, Gon=E7alo Neves = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1565 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89354 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2005 12:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2005 12:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2005 12:29:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2005 12:29:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2005 12:29:09 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:28:26 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 5589 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.45 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Yen kelka komenti pri vua prezinda respondo. 1) Pri 'kashuo= ' Pos vua reakto me facis plusa explori e nun konsentas ke 'kashuo' es pl= u internaciona e do preferinda kam 'kajuo'. Malgre to atencez la tri sequa= nta punti: a) 'Acajoubaum' ya uzesas en la Germana. Regardez en Wikipedia:= http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acajoubaum b) En la Rusa la arboro nomesas = 'kazhu' o 'akazhu' [zh =3D nia j] . Regardez la sequanta pagino: http://= www.oval.ru/enc/33406.html c) Pri la Portugalana vu skribis: =ABquan norm= ale ni ne egardas (pardonez!)=BB Vu devus demandar pardono ne de me ma de = la cienco. La Portugalana es egardenda, ne pro sua preske 200 milioni de p= arolanti en quar kontinenti (la kinesma linguo en la mondo), ma pro ke ol = es la duesma linguo Romana (pos la Hispana). Se la lexiko di Ido es fundam= entale Romana (nulu dubitas pri to), vere ciencoza vortifo en Ido ne darfa= s ignorar la Portugalana. La autori di Interlingua ne ignoris ol. Vice DE= FIRS kom fonto-lingui on adoptis la formulo EFI(S/P), kun eventuala apogo = da DR nur kaze ke analizata radiko ne trovesas en adminime tri lingui de E= FI(S/P). (S/P) signifikas ke la du vicina lingui ne es akumulebla ma nur a= lternanta, od altre dicite, P es egardenda nur kaze ke analizata radiko ne= trovesas en S. Pri ta punto la Interlingua-isti agas do plu ciencoze kam = la Idisti, regretinde. Tamen ni lektez la sequanta remarko da Dyer en impo= rtanta verko (`The problem of an international auxiliary language'): =ABIdo= uses the Spanish and Port. spelling for this root: 'abad-o' vice 'abat-o' = in order to avoid confusion with the root 'abat-a, -o': to fell, strike d= own.=BB (p. 131). To skribesis en 1923, kande la Portugalana havis konside= rinde min multa parolanti kam nun (tamen ja plu multa kam Dyer supozis, ka= nde sur p. 110 dil sama verko il skribis ke SP kune havas =AB85 millions= =BB!!) 2) Pri `estro' Nula problemo. Nia sufixo `-estro' tote ne kolizio= nas kun la nova vorto `estr/o', same kam nia sufixo `-al' tote ne koliziona= s kun la vorto `al/o'. Nula konfundo eventas. Ni ne obliviez ke enIdo, ece= pte la kazo di `ig', la afixi ne uzesas kom aparta radiki! O ka nia samide= ani ankore regardas Ido tra Esperanto- binoklo?... Esez do bonvenanta la no= va vorto `estro', tre necesa, utila ed internaciona (DEFISP). 3) Pri pota= to/kartoflo/terpomo Existas du tuberkuli de du planti diferanta: a) Solan= um tuberosum D Kartoffel E potato F pomme de terre (96%), patate (4%) I pa= tata R kartofel' S patata P batata [Le % indikas la procento di pagini tro= vita per Google] b) Ipomoea batatas D S=FCsskartoffel E sweet potato F p= atate douce (99,7%), batate (0,3%) I patata dolce (71%), batata (29%) R bat= at (56%), sladkij [dolca] kartofel' (44%) S batata (77%), patata dulce (3%)= P batata doce Me opinionas ke la maxim internaciona maniero nomizar ca tu= berkuli en Ido esus: Solanum tuberosum: patato =96 EIS Ipomoea batatas: d= olca (DEFIRP) patato (EFI) Vice to ni nun havas: Solanum tuberosum: ter-p= omo =96 F Ipomoea batatas: patato =96 EFI Rezume, vice EIS ni havas nur F,= e vice DEFIRP + EFI ni havas nur EFI. To signifikas ke on facis mala elek= to! Ka ni povas remediar ol en 2005? Yes, ni ankore povas. Ka ni povas ado= ptar la maxim internaciona solvuro? Forsan ne... Yen analizo: Posibla sol= vuri: I) (la supere indikita) Solanum tuberosum: patato =96 EIS Ipomoea b= atatas: dolca (DEFIRP) patato (EFI) AVANTAJO: la maxim internaciona. DESAV= ANTAJO: la sama vorto havus diferanta signifiki en diferanta periodi ni ni= a linguo: til 2005 ol aplikesus a ula planto, e depos 2005 ad altra planto= , sen ke la antea desaparus. To es tre deskonsilinda. KONKLUZO: mala solvu= ro. II) Solanum tuberosum: patato =96 EIS Ipomoea batatas: batato =96 IR= S AVANTAJO: plu internaciona kam la nuna (quankam min kam I). DESAVANTAJO = 1: la sama kam I (chanjo di signifiko). DESAVANTAJO 2: on uzus du vorti par= onima por nomar du analoga tuberkuli, t.e por nocioni proxima: To certe pr= oduktus heziti, konfuzeso ed erori. KONKLUZO: mem plu mala kam I. III) S= olanum tuberosum: batato =96 P Ipomoea batatas: patato =96 EFI AVANTAJO: l= a anciena vorto `patato' ne chanjus sua signifiko. DESAVANTAJO 1: min inter= naciona kam I e II. DESAVANTAJO 2: la sama kam II-2 (paronimi). KONKLUZO: m= ala solvuro. IV) Solanum tuberosum: potato =96 E Ipomoea batatas: patato= =96 EFI AVANTAJO: la anciena vorto `patato' ne chanjus sua signifiko. DES= AVANTAJO 1: min internaciona kam I e II. DESAVANTAJO 2: la sama kam II-2 (p= aronimi). KONKLUZO: mala solvuro. V) Solanum tuberosum: kartoflo =96 GR = Ipomoea batatas: patato =96 EFI AVANTAJO 1: la anciena vorto `patato' ne c= hanjus sua signifiko. AVANTAJO 2: plu internaciona kam la nuna (quankam min= kam I). KONKLUZO: la maxim bona solvuro (du avantaji e nula desavantajo). = (`kartoflo' havas kelka susteno internaciona anke exter la kustumala DEFI= RS-sistemo: Bulgariana, Dana, Estoniana. Latva, Ukrainiana e Rumaniana) 4= ) Pri `guanako' en Esperanto Me jus konsultis la unesma edituro (1970) di = `Plena Ilustrita Vortaro', la maxim autoritatoza dicionario di Esperanto, = sur qua forsan apogesas la dicionarii mencionita da vu: ibe la vorto havas= la formo `guanako'. Me konsultis anke la duesma edituro dil sama verko (= 2002): ibe la vorto chanjis a `gvanako'. Ante lektir vua respondo e facir = ca konsulti me supozis ke en Esperanto la vorto sempre havis la formo `gva= nako'. Do me jus lernis ulo! 5) Pri `epopeo' Yen la tradukuri: D Epop=F6= e E epic poem F =E9pop=E9e I epopea R epopjeja S epopeya P epopeia (Eo epop= eo) Kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1566 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7583 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 01:12:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 01:12:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nash.numericable.net) (80.236.3.115) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 01:12:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 6315 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 01:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by nash.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 Mar 2005 01:12:55 -0000 Message-ID: <006b01c51dfc$8f674100$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> <00df01c51d29$681b2040$bf60dc51@landloic> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 02:18:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.115 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Michael, La franca-ido dicionario di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufont (1915) ed l'angla-ido dicionario di Dyer (1924) donas ciano kom la tradukuro di : G: Dicyan A: cyanogen F: cyanog�ne H: cian�geno I : cianogene ed anke ciana ( qua kontenas toxika gazo de karbono ed azoto nomizita ciano) kom tradujuro di: F: cian� A: cyanic Segun la sistemo GAFHIR cianogeno povus tre bone remplasar la nuna ciano por liberigar ciana por la koloro e remplasar ol per cianogeniza Lore la sintezo sustracionala di kolori esus ciana , *magenta e flava Pri ica afero semblas a me ke la kemio e la *koloritiko traktesis korekte . Amikale, Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Michael Talbot-Wilson" � : Envoy� : lundi 28 f�vrier 2005 02:38 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) > > Kara Loic, > > On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > > > > > Kara Robert, > > > > Pri *cyana, vu oblivis respondar a mea propozo. > > Me anke adjuntis *magenta e propozis *cianogeno vice ciano. > > Ma forsan vu ne ankor decidis pri to. > > Kordiale > > Loik > > Omna "cyanide", "ferricyanide" (qua esas blua, ma ne havas la blueso > di la "cyan" di imprimisti) e "cyanogen" (ula gaso) esas Angla vorti > pri diferant enti kemia. Quale ta vorti aspektas en altra lingui? Ka > vu derivis vua "cianogeno" de la vera "cyanogen"? > > Pri ica afero la kemio esas plu fundamentala. Do, ni unesme examenez > o facez la Ido vorti pri la kemio, e pose inventez vorto pri la > koloro. > > Ante lo, ne esas dezirinda propozar od aprobar irga vorto pri la > koloro. > > Pose, segun me, ne esos posibla deskonkordar pri la vorto pri la koloro. > > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1567 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14793 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 01:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 01:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 01:56:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2005 01:56:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2005 01:56:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 01:56:10 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 651 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.38 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: DEFRIS en Ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara samideani, Tempope Ido uzas la abreviuri DEFRIS por montrar vorti en la lingui di Germania, Anglia, Francia, Rusia, Italia e Hispania. Ta abreviuri evidente esis unesme de Germania e me remarkas DEFRIS en la germana revuo "Internaciona Pioniro" di 1909. (Do vorti de Deutschland, England, Frankreich, Russland edc.). Ma hodie forsan la Ido- abreviuri di lingui es plu apta, exemple: Angla, Franca, Germana, Hispana, Itala, Portugala, Rusa,od AFGHIPR. Goncalo Neves asertas ke Portugala es meritinda ed anke Esperanto, nam Ido ofte havas simila vorti. Konseque ni devas citar, se posibla, AFGIHPRE vorti. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1568 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63521 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 02:08:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 02:08:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 02:08:24 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DC71743 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:38:17 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25120-10 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:38:05 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5A4B338C3; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:38:03 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2D71743 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:38:03 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:38:03 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <006b01c51dfc$8f674100$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> <00df01c51d29$681b2040$bf60dc51@landloic> <006b01c51dfc$8f674100$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Loic, Ye 1 Mar 2005, Loic Landais skribis: > La franca-ido dicionari= o di L.Couturat e L. de Beaufont (1915) ed > l'angla-ido dicionario di Dyer= (1924) donas ciano kom la tradukuro di : > G: Dicyan > A: cyanogen > F: cy= anog=E8ne > H: cian=F3geno > I : cianogene > > ed anke ciana ( qua kontenas= toxika gazo de karbono ed azoto nomizita ciano) > kom tradujuro di: > F: c= ian=E9 A: cyanic Me regretas ke nun me mustas skribar de mea laboreyo e n= un ne havas dicionarii hike. Do me ofte eroras kande me skribas a la posto= -listo. Me nur semblante rimemoras ke ipsa A. "cyanogen" esas la toxika ga= zo. Se lo esas korekta, on omisez la literi "ogen" en la Ido vorto pri la k= oloro. Ma forsan me eroras itere. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson [Non-te= xt portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1569 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94924 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 02:45:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 02:45:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 02:45:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC4C3D2 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:15:17 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25206-10 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:15:06 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 58A75166D6; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:15:04 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D99B1743 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:15:04 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:15:03 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Goncalo Neves skribis: > Vu devus demandar pardono ne de me ma de la cienco. La Portugalana es > egardenda, ne pro sua preske 200 milioni de parolanti en quar > kontinenti (la kinesma linguo en la mondo), ma pro ke ol es la duesma > linguo Romana (pos la Hispana). Se la lexiko di Ido es fundamentale > Romana (nulu dubitas pri to), vere ciencoza vortifo en Ido ne darfas Kara Goncalo, Esas vera ke, hazarde, pro ke pioniri esis Franci, e pro ke la Angla havas multa vorti de la Franca e Latina, ke ula plumulto de Ido radiki esas konocata en la lingui Romana. Pro to, se on volas havar lingua advere internaciona, esas tre grava evitar la kredo ke la linguo ipsa esas "fundamentale Romana". La dezinenci di Ido qui aspektas Romanatre venas de Esperanto, ne de irga Romana linguo. Se on uzus nombri di ne-Europana habitanti por selektar radiki, necese multa radiki venus de la Chiniana, ne de Brazilia. Se on uzas nombri di Europana parolanti di la fonta lingui, atencez ke la Germana esas la maxim importanta en west-Europa. Ne posible on selektez futura radiki nur de Romana lingui. Se me ne eroras, on evitis la Portugalana kom fonto-linguo pri Ido radiki exakte por mantenar ula internaciona pareso inter la Romana lingui e la altra Europana lingui. Esas tre grava afero evitar koaktar Ido ek la internaciona kampeyo aden la Romanatra kampeyo, nur pro ke hazarde ol havas kelka Romana radiki, e semblas (erore) aspektar Romanatre. Ido ne esas Interlingua. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1570 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 382 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 02:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 02:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.58) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 02:50:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 76083 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Mar 2005 02:50:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20050301025017.76081.qmail@web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.201] by web26608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Mar 2005 03:50:16 CET Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 03:50:16 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.58 From: Partaka Subject: Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto ad omnu! Yen to quon me pensas pri l' sequanta vorti: *cyana/ciana Se l'informo da Loic (kun la suporto da Richard) es justa, ni darfas adoptar *cianogeno vice l'anciena "ciano", e *ciana (plu bona kam *cyana) por la koloro. *estro Me ne savas, ka ta vorto relatas ad *estrogeno, ma se yes, lo es argumento suficanta por olua adopto. Altralatere, quankam ol aspektas sama kam nia sufixo "estro", fakte, ni ne darfas (e me esperas, ke ni darfos nultempe) uzar izolite nia afixi. Do, me havas nula problemo pri l'adopto d'ica vorto. *kashuo/kajuo Cakaze, me preferas *kajuo (la frukto), tamen ni devas klarigar, ka l'arboro nomesus *kajuiero, "anakardio" o per amba formi. E forsan kelke inquestar pri olua posibla ligno-nomo. Anke la Hispana, ultre "anacardo", posedas vorti quala "caju', cajuil, edc., ube aparas la litero "j". Segun semblo, ica arboro relatas principe a Brazil, ed ol esis "exportacata" dal Portugalani al cetera mondo: plusa motivo por l'adopto dil vorto *kajuo. (terpomo e patato) Segun me, on devis nulkaze adoptir ta du vorti por referar to quon singla ek oli referas. Me kredas, ke "patato" (terpomo) es la formo maxim internaciona e rekomendinda. E "dolca patato" (i/o "batato") esus bona por la duesma koncepto. Se ni darfas desaparigar grava Ido-vorto qual "terpomo", ni anke darfas chanjar la nuna "patato" a "dolca patato" o "batato": me ne kredas, ke onu skribis tre multe en Ido pri la nuna "patato". Es preferinda ne durigar l'eroro e, pluse, ne renuncar pri l'internacioneso di ta du vorti. Do, "patato" vice "terpomo" "dolca patato" i/o "batato" vice la nuna "patato". (Forsan "batato" es eskartinda pro la verbo batar). *epopeo Principe, ol havas bon aspekto e semblas adoptinda. Amikal tilbaldo! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1571 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90122 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 07:23:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 07:23:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 07:23:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57EC92B3D for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:53:44 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26314-04 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:53:33 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1A917169A0; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:53:31 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB71A2B3D for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:53:31 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:53:31 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] DEFRIS en Ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Tue, 1 Mar 2005, richsteven2000 wrote: > vorti. Konseque ni devas citar, se posibla, AFGIHPRE vorti. > Amikale, Richard Stevenson. Semblas a me tre fundamentala chanjo adjuntar plusa fonta lingui ad AFGHIR. Se, en la nuna mondo, on agus tale, pro quo on selektus nur Europana lingui? Example la Indoneziana havas tre multa parolanti, ed ulagrade esas pronuncata quale Ido (ma havas adminime un plusa sono). Ol esas pasable simpla tale ke habitanti de izolata insuli di Indonezia povas facile lernar ol. Ol uzas la Latin alfabeto. On pronuncas la litero R di la Indoneziana quale la litero R di la Italiana. La Portugalana semblas a me kurioza e bela, pura Romana linguo. Ma me questionas ka nun esas la tempo adjuntar nova fonta lingui, e se do, me questionas ka la Portugalana esas la maxim bona linguo por adjuntar. Nun existas klara regulo per qua on povas selektar radiko segun la nombri de parolanti en Europa di AFGHIR. Kad on volas nun chanjar? Se on ne chanjus ta regulo, pro quo _citez_ plusa lingui? Ne povas esar bona raciono. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1572 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92173 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 09:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 09:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.184) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 09:03:19 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.209] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1D63Fi-0000cb-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:01:14 +0100 Received: from [217.199.78.28] (helo=[217.199.78.28]) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1D63Fh-0002Ha-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Mar 2005 10:01:14 +0100 Message-ID: <42238162.60201@idolinguo.de> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:38:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com References: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200522721149.465419@SonyFX805> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.227.126.184 From: Eberhard Scholz Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976 X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kar experti lingual, en mea libro pri la frukti dil mondo editita dum la GDR-tempo(Germana Demokrata Republiko) me trovis lo sequanta: Kaschu-Nuss , Kaschu- ed Acajoubaum(Anacardium occidentale). En la nuntempa lexiki onu lektas Cashewnuss , Acajoubaum ed Acajounuss. Do vi povas vidar, ke en la GDR on enduktis la Cashew kom Kaschu en la Germana . Kara Robert, Ka vu povas risendar a me la listo q1 ? Saluti ad omni Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1573 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86129 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 11:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 11:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 11:27:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2005 11:27:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2005 11:27:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:27:22 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3892 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.44 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Michael, > Pro to, se on volas havar lingua advere internaciona, esa= s tre grava > evitar la kredo ke la linguo ipsa esas "fundamentale Romana".= Me tote ne dicis (nek opinionas!) ke Ido es fundamentale Romana. Me dici= s nur ke olua LEXIKO es fundamentale Romana. Or la lexiko es nur un del mu= lta organi qui kompozas linguo, ne la tota linguo... Pluse, hike ne parol= esas pri KREDO ke la lexiko di Ido es fundamentale Romana. Parolesas pri F= AKTI. Fakti sempre es e duros esar fakti, mem se to ne plezas, mem se on n= e volas agnoskar lo. Yen la fakti, segun statistiko ne da Neves, ma da Cou= turat ipsa, citita da Dyer ('The problem of an international auxiliary lan= guage', p. 118): De la 5.371 Ido-radiki lore oficala le sequanta existis (= o esis rikonocebla) en la lingui: Franca: 4.880 (91%) Italiana: 4.454 (83= %) Hispana: 4.237 (79 %) Angla: 4.219 (79%) Germana: 3.302 (61%) Rusa: 2.82= 1 (52%) Se la Franca, Italiana e Hispana es Romana lingui, e se es Romana = anke la maxim granda parto del internaciona radiki qui trovesas en la Ang= la, Germana e Rusa, de to konsequas ke la Ido-LEXIKO (ne la linguo!) es fu= ndamentale Romana. Tre Romanatra es anke la lexiko dil Angla, segun statis= tiko da F.H. Vizetelly, citita da Dyer en la sama verko (p. 114). La autor= o analizis 20.000 Angla vorti e trovis ke: 6.782 (34%) venas del Franca 5= .040 (25%) venas direte del Anglo-Saxona o de Germanala lingui 2.880 (14,4%= ) venas direte del Latina 2.493 (12,5%) venas del Greka direte o tra la Fra= nca o la Latina 129 venas del Hispana o Portugalana 99 venas del Italiana = Do 12.383 (61%) havas Romana origino direta o mediata. Se on analizus la 5= .000 maxim ofta Angla vorti, la procento di Anglo- Saxona e germanala vorti= esus multe plu alta, me savas lo. Tamen me ne volas facar plusa komenti p= ri la supera statistiko. Ol es interesanta ed importanta mem sen komenti. = > La dezinenci di Ido qui aspektas Romanatre venas de Esperanto, ne de > i= rga Romana linguo. Me nultempe parolis pri dezinenci. Me sempre parolis pr= i LEXIKO. Or la dezinenci es nur mikra (quankam tre importanta) parto di l= exiko... > Se on uzus nombri di ne-Europana habitanti por selektar radiki,= necese > multa radiki venus de la Chiniana, ne de Brazilia. Me nultempe = parolis pri nombri. Me parolis nur pri internacioneso. Or la Chiniana, mal= gre sua multega milioni, es nule o tre poke internaciona. Pro to vere inte= rnaciona linguo ne povas havar multa radiki del Chiniana. Me dicas lo nek = joye nek regrete. To es simpla fakto. > Se on uzas nombri di Europana par= olanti di la fonta lingui, atencez ke > la Germana esas la maxim important= a en west-Europa. Unesme, Ido es linguo ne nur Europana ma totmonda. Ecesi= va sorgi pri Europaneso ne bone fitas en la spirito di Ido, qua es omna- k= ontinenta, internaciona, vere universala. Duesme, me nultempe parolis pri = importo o manko di importo. Me sempre parolis pri internacioneso. Or la Po= rtugalana (mem se min "importanta") es linguo multe plu internaciona kam l= a Germana. Anke to es fakto. > Esas tre grava afero evitar koaktar Ido ek= la internaciona kampeyo > aden la Romanatra kampeyo, nur pro ke hazarde ol= havas kelka Romana > radiki, e semblas (erore) aspektar Romanatre. Ido ne= esas > Interlingua. Me bone savas (mem per propra experienco) ke Ido ne e= s Interlingua. Interlingua es nur Romana salado kelke emundita. Ido es lin= guo kun propra spirito, ciencoze extraktita del internaciona trezoro lingu= al, sempre plu richigata e perfektigata, e sempre atencanta la mondo qua = cirkondas ol, e la progreso, e la moderna tendenci e fenomeni, e la nova a= tingi dil cienco e dil teknologio. Linguo kun okuli apertita ed oreli sent= iva. Linguo tre embracema e gastigema. Linguo qua abominas miti e dogmi. L= inguo qua sempre serchas lo nova e lo fresha e repulsas lo moldoza e lo ve= rdigrisa. Linguo nule katenizebla. Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1574 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35884 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 12:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 12:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 12:40:21 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.180.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.180] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D66fi-000LDw-Qk for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:40:19 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:35:36 GMT Message-ID: <200531123536.977798@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, Multa danki ankorfoye pri vua utila komenti. Malgre esar = cirkondata da vortolibri por trovar equivalanti en altra lingui kande me ko= mpilas informi por posibla nova vorti, li ne suficas, e me dependas ye help= o da altri por "plenigar trui". Helpanti "ne kreskas ye arbori" (ne abundas= ). Se vu voluntos ankore helpar quale vu nun helpas, me esos tre gratitudoz= a. 1c) Pri la Portugalana, preske cent yari ante nun, ta linguo probable n= e esis tante importanta en la mondo kam nun. La mondo chanjas. En libro, Th= e Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language, da prof. David Crystal (1987), la dek= precipua lingui segun nombro di matro-linguo-parolanti esas la Chiniana (1= 000 m), Angla (350 m), Hispana (250 m), *Hindia (200 m), Araba (150 m), Ben= galana (150 m), Rusa (150 m), Portugalana (135 m), Japoniana (120 m) e Germ= ana (100 m). Franca (70 m) ed Italiana (60 m) esas ye plasi 11 e 15. Paren= teze, segun lpopul-nombri di landi ube linguo esas oficala, la Angla atinga= s unesma plaso (1400 m), e la Franca (220 m) atingas 6ma plaso, ma to esas = falsa indiko nam ne omna personi en India, exemple, parolas la Angla malgre= olua oficaleso. Do, vu esas justa, ke oportus egardar la Portugalana, adm= inime kom alternativo kande la Hispana ne suficas o ne helpas. To adportos = kelka plusa laboro, ma se vu helpos tarelate me volunte recevos ta helpo. M= e kredas ke ne esas necesa facar formala regulo, ma simple inkluzar traduku= ro Portugalana, adminime kande utila, por helpar konsideranti e decidanti p= ri adopto di nova vorto. 2) Ni konsentas pri "estro" e me esperas ke altri= konsentos. Me pensis same quale vu: ni ja havas "para-" (prefixo) e "para"= (vorto), e simile "-ar(o)" (sufixo) ed "aro" (vorto, de qua derivesas la p= lu ofte uzata "hektaro"). 3) Pri "patato", me supozas ke on adoptis ol vic= e "batato" pro la ambigueso di "batato" (persono od ulo batata). Konsiderez= la instruciono, "batez la batati til ke li havas la qualeso di kremo"! Pr= i "potato", me konsentas kun vu, e me volunte propozos *kartoflo por obtena= r plu bona solvuro (e prefere balde, ante imprimo di nova vortolibri) se al= tri anke konsentas. Espereble, on ganas poke pri sajeso per movo di la flec= ho di tempo! 4) Ne esas klara pri la autoritateso dil PNIV, nam ol semblas= ne sempre aceptar la decidi di la Linguala Komitato di Esperanto. Tamen, t= o ne esas mea tereno. Irgakaze, forsan en PNIV on misskribis kande on inser= tis "gvanako". Se ol ne esas nova formo, ma misskriburo, to explikus pro qu= o on ne inkluzas la anciena formo, quale por altra nova formi. Fortunoze, p= oke importas por ni. 5) Pri epopeo, danko pri la tradukuri, ma me ne kompr= enas la difero de epikajo. Segun Pesch (a qua me ne sempre fidas ma qua sat= ofte helpas), epika =3D qua naracas per versi ago heroala. Segun Franca d= icionario, =E9pop=E9e =3D 1. Long poeme empreint de marveilleux et racontan= t des aventures h=E9roiques. 2. Suite d'actions r=E9ellement accomplies et = pleines d'heroisme. =E9pique =3D 1. [litter] Se dit d'une grande compositio= n en vers qui d=E9crit des actions h=E9roiques. 2. Propre a l'=E9pop=E9e. 3= . Digne d'une =E9pop=E9e. Kordiale, Robert. ________ Vu skribis: Kara = Robert, Yen kelka komenti pri vua prezinda respondo. 1) Pri 'kashuo' Pos= vua reakto me facis plusa explori e nun konsentas ke 'kashuo' es plu inter= naciona e do preferinda kam 'kajuo'. Malgre to atencez la tri sequanta punt= i: a) 'Acajoubaum' ya uzesas en la Germana. Regardez en Wikipedia: http:/= /de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acajoubaum b) En la Rusa la arboro nomesas 'kazhu' = o 'akazhu' [zh =3D nia j] . Regardez la sequanta pagino: http://www.oval.r= u/enc/33406.html c) Pri la Portugalana vu skribis: =ABquan normale ni ne = egardas (pardonez!)=BB Vu devus demandar pardono ne de me ma de la cienco.= La Portugalana es egardenda, ne pro sua preske 200 milioni de parolanti en= quar kontinenti (la kinesma linguo en la mondo), ma pro ke ol es la duesma= linguo Romana (pos la Hispana). Se la lexiko di Ido es fundamentale Romana= (nulu dubitas pri to), vere ciencoza vortifo en Ido ne darfas ignorar la P= ortugalana. La autori di Interlingua ne ignoris ol. Vice DEFIRS kom fonto-l= ingui on adoptis la formulo EFI(S/P), kun eventuala apogo da DR nur kaze ke= analizata radiko ne trovesas en adminime tri lingui de EFI(S/P). (S/P) sig= nifikas ke la du vicina lingui ne es akumulebla ma nur alternanta, od altre= dicite, P es egardenda nur kaze ke analizata radiko ne trovesas en S. Pri = ta punto la Interlingua-isti agas do plu ciencoze kam la Idisti, regretinde= . Tamen ni lektez la sequanta remarko da Dyer en importanta verko (`The pro= blem of an international auxiliary language'): =ABIdo uses the Spanish and = Port. spelling for this root: 'abad-o' vice 'abat-o' in order to avoid conf= usion with the root 'abat-a, -o': to fell, strike down.=BB=A0(p. 131). To s= kribesis en 1923, kande la Portugalana havis konsiderinde min multa parolan= ti kam nun (tamen ja plu multa kam Dyer supozis, kande sur p. 110 dil sama = verko il skribis ke SP kune havas =AB85 millions=BB!!) 2) Pri `estro' Nul= a problemo. Nia sufixo `-estro' tote ne kolizionas kun la nova vorto `estr/= o', same kam nia sufixo `-al' tote ne kolizionas kun la vorto `al/o'. Nula = konfundo eventas. Ni ne obliviez ke enIdo, ecepte la kazo di `ig', la afixi= ne uzesas kom aparta radiki! O ka nia samideani ankore regardas Ido tra Es= peranto- binoklo?... Esez do bonvenanta la nova vorto `estro', tre necesa, = utila ed internaciona (DEFISP). 3) Pri potato/kartoflo/terpomo Existas du= tuberkuli de du planti diferanta: a) Solanum tuberosum D Kartoffel E pot= ato F pomme de terre (96%), patate (4%) I patata R kartofel' S patata P bat= ata [Le % indikas la procento di pagini trovita per Google] b) Ipomoea ba= tatas D S=FCsskartoffel E sweet potato F patate douce (99,7%), batate (0,3= %) I patata dolce (71%), batata (29%) R batat (56%), sladkij [dolca] kartof= el' (44%) S batata (77%), patata dulce (3%) P batata doce Me opinionas ke = la maxim internaciona maniero nomizar ca tuberkuli en Ido esus: Solanum tu= berosum: patato =96 EIS Ipomoea batatas: dolca (DEFIRP) patato (EFI) Vice = to ni nun havas: Solanum tuberosum: ter-pomo =96 F Ipomoea batatas: patato= =96 EFI Rezume, vice EIS ni havas nur F, e vice DEFIRP + EFI ni havas nur= EFI. To signifikas ke on facis mala elekto! Ka ni povas remediar ol en 200= 5? Yes, ni ankore povas. Ka ni povas adoptar la maxim internaciona solvuro?= Forsan ne... Yen analizo: Posibla solvuri: I) (la supere indikita) Sola= num tuberosum: patato =96 EIS Ipomoea batatas: dolca (DEFIRP) patato (EFI) = AVANTAJO: la maxim internaciona. DESAVANTAJO: la sama vorto havus diferant= a signifiki en diferanta periodi ni nia linguo: til 2005 ol aplikesus a ula= planto, e depos 2005 ad altra planto, sen ke la antea desaparus. To es tre= deskonsilinda. KONKLUZO: mala solvuro. II) Solanum tuberosum: patato =96= EIS Ipomoea batatas: batato =96 IRS AVANTAJO: plu internaciona kam la nun= a (quankam min kam I). DESAVANTAJO 1: la sama kam I (chanjo di signifiko). = DESAVANTAJO 2: on uzus du vorti paronima por nomar du analoga tuberkuli, t.= e por nocioni proxima: To certe produktus heziti, konfuzeso ed erori. KONKL= UZO: mem plu mala kam I. III) Solanum tuberosum: batato =96 P Ipomoea bat= atas: patato =96 EFI AVANTAJO: la anciena vorto `patato' ne chanjus sua si= gnifiko. DESAVANTAJO 1: min internaciona kam I e II. DESAVANTAJO 2: la sama= kam II-2 (paronimi). KONKLUZO: mala solvuro. IV) Solanum tuberosum: pota= to =96 E Ipomoea batatas: patato =96 EFI AVANTAJO: la anciena vorto `patat= o' ne chanjus sua signifiko. DESAVANTAJO 1: min internaciona kam I e II. DE= SAVANTAJO 2: la sama kam II-2 (paronimi). KONKLUZO: mala solvuro. V) Sola= num tuberosum: kartoflo =96 GR Ipomoea batatas: patato =96 EFI AVANTAJO 1:= la anciena vorto `patato' ne chanjus sua signifiko. AVANTAJO 2: plu intern= aciona kam la nuna (quankam min kam I). KONKLUZO: la maxim bona solvuro (du= avantaji e nula desavantajo). (`kartoflo' havas kelka susteno internacion= a anke exter la kustumala DEFIRS-sistemo: Bulgariana, Dana, Estoniana. Latv= a, Ukrainiana e Rumaniana) 4) Pri `guanako' en Esperanto Me jus konsultis= la unesma edituro (1970) di `Plena Ilustrita Vortaro', la maxim autoritato= za dicionario di Esperanto, sur qua forsan apogesas la dicionarii mencionit= a da vu: ibe la vorto havas la formo `guanako'. Me konsultis anke la duesma= edituro dil sama verko (2002): ibe la vorto chanjis a `gvanako'. Ante lekt= ir vua respondo e facir ca konsulti me supozis ke en Esperanto la vorto sem= pre havis la formo `gvanako'. Do me jus lernis ulo! 5) Pri `epopeo' Yen l= a tradukuri: D Epop=F6e E epic poem F =E9pop=E9e I epopea R epopjeja S epo= peya P epopeia (Eo epopeo) Kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1575 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50280 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 12:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 12:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 12:40:23 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.180.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.180] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D66fl-000LDw-UB for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:40:22 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:43:23 GMT Message-ID: <200531124323.418308@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050227031805.NMCJ8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] cyana/ciana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Richard, Vu skribas, "La existanta vorto =91ciano=92 es antiquatra ed= efacinda nam la moderna nomo es =91cianogeno=92 (gaso qua nur kontenas C e= N). Konseque la vorto =91ciano=92 es libera por la koloro (importanta en f= iziko)." Vua maniero evidente povas misduktar altri. La vorto "ciano" ne e= sas libera, e "cianogeno" ne existas en Ido. Vu certe darfas propozar chan= jo, ma ni mustas konsiderar irga chanjo propozata, e tandem esas la tota DK= qua decidos. Me ja havas *cianogeno en mea laborolisto, ma sen omna neces= a tradukuri. AFGH esas simila a *cianogeno, ma la Germana vorto esas Zyan. = Ka vu savas la Rusa? Semblas ke ni plu bone ajornez decido pri *cyana til = pos decido pri *cianogeno. Kordiale, Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1576 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22346 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2005 20:55:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2005 20:55:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2005 20:55:00 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with SMTP id <20050301205458.LAUT21348.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:54:58 +0100 Message-ID: <007501c51ea0$9b4fb520$acef5dd5@azalia> To: Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 21:52:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.17 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Fw: [idostab] Chuzpe = senshameso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Pardonez me, altra temo. Tamen, bona propozo da Jean Martignon, me opinionas. Saluti amikala, Hans St. (Fatigit e dormema ma lektanta omna mesaji. Balde m retro-esos plu aktiva) -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Jean-Claude MARTIGNON" Aan: CC: ; ; Verzonden: dinsdag 1 maart 2005 14:12 Onderwerp: [idostab] Chuzpe = senshameso > > Hiere, lektante lektero-letro en la Germana semanala jurnalo DER SPIEGEL (LA SPEGULO), me vidis la vorto "chuzpe". Me serchis en dicionario e me trovis la traduko di chuzpe = senshameso. Ico memorigis da me la vorto uzata da nia samideano Takata, nome hucpo*. La problemo esas ke por hucpo* ne existas la vera sono quale la Germana -ch (qua pronuncesas quale la Hispana jota). Me propozas enduktar la digramo "kh" en Ido por reprezentar ica aparta fonemo* qua ne existas en Ido, ma existas en multa lingui. Do la hucpo* di nia samideano povus divenor "kh"ucpo* o forsan (kh)ucpo*. Od forsan per la italika literi khucpo*. Ma me ne savas kad mea komputilo esas apta bone funcionar kun italika literi. > > "Kh"ucpoza* saluti. JM <<<:>>> > > > > > Stabila Ido, sekureso por longa vivo di la movemento. > > Se vu volas lektar texti pri omna temi en Ido, voluntez abonar KURIERO INTERNACIONA qua publikigesas ye singla trimestro e di qua la yarala abono kustas po 10 euri. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1577 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77445 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 02:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 02:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 02:47:48 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D326A477 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:17:44 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27160-10 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:17:28 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8EDBE169EB; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:17:26 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCDE477 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:17:26 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 13:17:26 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 150.101.74.34 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Goncalo, Ye Tue, 1 Mar 2005, Goncalo Neves skribis: > Me tote ne dicis (nek opinionas!) ke Ido es fundamentale Romana. Me > dicis nur ke olua LEXIKO es fundamentale Romana. Or la lexiko es nur > un del multa organi qui kompozas linguo, ne la tota linguo... Yes, me komprenis ke vu skribis tale. > Pluse, hike ne parolesas pri KREDO ke la lexiko di Ido es > fundamentale Romana. Parolesas pri FAKTI. Fakti sempre es e duros Me konkordas pri la historia fakto pri to. Sempre esis. Me esas min certa pri la futuro. > esar fakti, mem se to ne plezas, mem se on ne volas agnoskar lo. Yen > la fakti, segun statistiko ne da Neves, ma da Couturat ipsa, citita > da Dyer ('The problem of an international auxiliary language', p. > 118): > > De la 5.371 Ido-radiki lore oficala le sequanta existis (o esis > rikonocebla) en la lingui: > > Franca: 4.880 (91%) > Italiana: 4.454 (83%) > Hispana: 4.237 (79 %) > Angla: 4.219 (79%) > Germana: 3.302 (61%) > Rusa: 2.821 (52%) Anke, se me memoris korekte, on trovas tala listo / tabelo en "La linguo internaciona e la cienco", en chapitro da Couturat. > Se la Franca, Italiana e Hispana es Romana lingui, e se es Romana > anke la maxim granda parto del internaciona radiki qui trovesas en la > Angla, Germana e Rusa, de to konsequas ke la Ido-LEXIKO (ne la > linguo!) es fundamentale Romana. > > Tre Romanatra es anke la lexiko dil Angla, segun statistiko da F.H. > Vizetelly, citita da Dyer en la sama verko (p. 114). La autoro > analizis 20.000 Angla vorti e trovis ke: [...] Me tote konkordas kun omna vua skribo pri la Angla. Me ne volis disputar pri ta linguo o pro ula superbeso pri ol. > ... > Me nultempe parolis pri nombri. Me parolis nur pri internacioneso. Or > la Chiniana, malgre sua multega milioni, es nule o tre poke > internaciona. Pro to vere internaciona linguo ne povas havar multa > radiki del Chiniana. Me dicas lo nek joye nek regrete. To es simpla > fakto. La metodo di Ido (segun la pioniri di ol) esas kontar la nombri de AFGHIR parolanti en Europa qui havas singla selektenda radiko en sua propra lingui. Do, nombri esas fundamentala. Pri la Chiniana, la questiono ne esas ka ta linguo ipsa esas internaciona, ma relatas la facileso lernar Ido pro ke on havas Ido-radiki en onua propra linguo. Esas tre multa Chiniani, do, ek la lernantaro, forsan tre plu multa povas trovar Ido-radiki en sua lingui se la Chiniana esas fonto linguo di Ido. >> Se on uzas nombri di Europana parolanti di la fonta lingui, atencez > ke >> la Germana esas la maxim importanta en west-Europa. > > Unesme, Ido es linguo ne nur Europana ma totmonda. Ecesiva sorgi pri > Europaneso ne bone fitas en la spirito di Ido, qua es omna- > kontinenta, internaciona, vere universala. Me ne volas disputar, ma forsan vu ne komprenis me hike. > Duesme, me nultempe parolis pri importo o manko di importo. Me sempre > parolis pri internacioneso. Or la Portugalana (mem se > min "importanta") es linguo multe plu internaciona kam la > Germana. > Anke to es fakto. Yes. Ma ne tre uziva fakto. La linguo Ido ipsa esos plu internaciona se ol atencus pri Germana radiki vice Portugalana radiki, pro ke AFHI ja adportas radiki larje existanta en la Portugalana. Se radiki esas en la altra fonta lingui ed anke esas en la Germana, lo esas plu demonstriva pri internacioneso kam la fakto ke li anke esas en la Portugalana. Me tote ne pensas tale pro ula revo pri la Angla kom Germanatra linguo. Se on kontas Europana parolanti di la fonta lingui, la Germana esas importanta. La sistemo Ido kontas nur Europani, mem quankam Ido esas mondo-linguo. Ma, pro ke Ido esas mondo-linguo, se on nun adjuntus plusa linguo a la fonta lingui, anke nun on devus chanjar pri la kontado, e kontez ne nur Europana habitanti pri singla nova radiko. Do, la adjuntenda linguo devus esar, exemple, la Chiniana o la Indoneziana. > Me bone savas (mem per propra experienco) ke Ido ne es Interlingua. > Interlingua es nur Romana salado kelke emundita. Ido es linguo kun > propra spirito, ciencoze extraktita del internaciona trezoro lingual, > sempre plu richigata e perfektigata, e sempre atencanta la mondo qua > cirkondas ol, e la progreso, e la moderna tendenci e fenomeni, e la > nova atingi dil cienco e dil teknologio. Linguo kun okuli apertita ed > oreli sentiva. Linguo tre embracema e gastigema. Linguo qua abominas > miti e dogmi. Linguo qua sempre serchas lo nova e lo fresha e > repulsas lo moldoza e lo verdigrisa. Linguo nule katenizebla. Ecelanta skribo! Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1578 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44195 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 10:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 10:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 10:57:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 10:56:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 10:56:43 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:56:42 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3171 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.36 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Vu questionas me pri la difero inter *epopeo ed epikajo. Por= komplete respondizar vua questiono oportas prizentar la nociono pri jenro= literatural. 1) Quo es jenro literatural? Jenro literatural es distinta= grupo o kategorio de literaturala verki kun komuna kontenajo o komuna tra= iti stilal. On dicernas plura jenri literatural. 2) Quale klasifikar la j= enri literatural? La klasifiki varias segun autori, skoli, epoki e mem mod= i. Tamen multa autori asentas la sequanta klasifiko: liriko epiko *dramat= iko didaktiko *oratoriko 3) Traiti dil jenri, e plusa divido en sub-jenri = a) Liriko La liriko expresas sentimenti e pensi. En ol preponderas la su= bjektaleso dil autoro. Ordinare on skribas lirikaji verse, ma li existas a= nke proze. La precipua sub-jenri lirikal en verso-formo es: odo, elegio, e= klogo, satiro, soneto e *kansono. b) Epiko La epiko naracas eventi reala = od imaginita di qui la protagonisto es la autoro ipsa od altru. Ol es esen= ce objektala. Tradicione on expresis la epiko verse, ma depos la mez-epoko= la prozo pokope komencis preponderar en ol. La precipua sub-jenri epikal = en verso- formo es: epikal poemo, *epopeo, romanco e *jesto. Proze on dicer= nas precipue la sequanta sub-jenri: rakonto, novelo, romano e legendo. c)= *Dramatiko La *dramatiko es la jenro uzata en teatro. Per dialogi e kelka= roli la autoro prizentas diversa konflikti. On povas skribar la dialogi = verse o proze. La precipua skopo es plear li koram audantaro, e do oportas= egardar ta punto dum kompozar li. Precipua sub-jenri *dramatikal: tragedi= o, komedio, dramato, opero e *zarzuelo. d) Didaktiko La didaktiko vizas d= ocar ulo. Olua precipua sub-jenri es: fablo, epistolo, esayo e recenso. e= ) *Oratoriko La *oratoriko vizas konvinkar o persuadar audantaro. Olua pre= cipua sub-jenro es la diskurso. 4) Por ne tro longigar ca texto me nun tr= aktos nur la versa sub-jenri dil epiko: a) Epikala poemo La epikala poem= o naracas heroala prodaji kun la skopo gloriizar la patrio. Exempli: 'Enei= do' da Vergilio, 'La Luzidi' da Cam=F5es. b) *Epopeo La *epopeo es grandi= oza e solena epikala poemo qua naracas evento tre importanta por la homaro= o manifestas la spirito di tota populo o civilizeso. Exempli: 'Ramayano' = da Valmiki, 'Iliado' ed 'Odiseo' da Homero e 'La Nibelungi' (anonima). (U= la autori ne dicernas *epopei de epikala poemi, nomante la sama verko lore= *epopeo lore epikala poemo) c) Romanco La romanco es poemo ek versi oksi= laba kun asonancoza rimo en le para, qua deskriptas agi milital o kavalier= atra. d) *Jesto La *jesto es mez-epokala poemo qua naracas la prodaji di = historiala o legendala heroi. 4) Quo es epikajo? Nu, on devus questionar= la autori di nia dicionarii, se li ankore esus vivanta. Me supozas ke 'ep= ikajo' es generala termino inkluzanta singa epikala verko. Segun ca kriter= io ne nur *epopei, epikala poemi, romanci e *jesti, ma anke rakonti, novel= i e romani es 'epikaji'. Kelke tro laxa termino, ka ne? Irge-quale esas, t= a laxeso, la ne- dubitebla internacioneso di '*epopeo' e la postuli di rigo= roza nomenklaturo literatural forte rekomendas la traktata "neologismo". = Kordiale, Gon=E7alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1579 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94691 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 11:14:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 11:14:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 11:14:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 11:14:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 11:14:45 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:14:42 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200531123536.977798@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 633 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.39 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Yes, me volunte duros helpar vu quale til nun. Pri la Portu= galana me devas pluse dicar ke me ne intencis propozar nova sistemo: A F = G H I R P Vice to mea propozo es: A F G H/P I R Od altre dicite, la Por= tugalana ne kom simpla adjuntajo ma nur kom alternativo, kande analizata t= ermino ne trovesas en la Hispana (exemple: la antea analizo pri *kashuo/ka= juo). Kande analizata termino trovesas en la Hispana, ne ese necesa (nek k= onvenanta) egardar la Portugalana. Irge-quale esas, on nultempe devus akum= ular la "voto-nombri" di la du lingui. Pri *epopeo me sendis aparta mesa= jo. Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1580 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13448 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 18:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 18:46:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 18:46:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 18:35:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 18:35:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:35:17 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 211 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.24 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara sioro Gon=E7alo Neves, Me furtis Vua texto pri literaturala jenri ed= adjuntis ol che Idala Wikipedio ( http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literaturo = ). Me deziras ke Vu ne iracas. Enciklopediale, Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1581 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85613 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 21:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 21:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 21:15:03 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.153.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.153] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D6bBL-000G3T-Bw for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:14:59 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:16:54 GMT Message-ID: <200532211654.025799@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <006b01c51dfc$8f674100$bf60dc51@landloic> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.92.91 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Loik, Yes, *magenta esas en mea laborolisto, kun tradukuri AFGHI ma a= nkore ne R. Tamen, quo esas *koloritiko? Ka vu povas donar tradukuri? Me n= e trovas simila vorti en mea Angla o Franca vortolibri. Danko. Kordiale, = Robert. __________ Vu skribis: Lore la sintezo sustracionala di kolori es= us ciana , *magenta e flava Pri ica afero semblas a me ke la kemio e la *k= oloritiko traktesis korekte . =A0Amikale, Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1582 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15116 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 21:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 21:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 21:20:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 21:20:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2005 21:20:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:19:53 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 494 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.42 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Arto Moisio, > Me furtis Vua texto pri literaturala jenri ed adjunti= s ol che Idala > Wikipedio ( http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literaturo ). > M= e deziras ke Vu ne iracas. Me tote ne iracas. Tamen vu obliviis la asteris= ki. Pluse, me ne es certa ka 'Kalevala' es *epopeo od epikala poemo. Kelka= yari ante nun me lektis cirkume triimo del verko, ma dume me obliviis mul= ta detali. Nu, me esperas ke anke me povos uldie skribar texti por la Idal= a Wikipedio. Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1583 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11296 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2005 22:46:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2005 22:46:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2005 22:46:29 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.54.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.54] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D6cbs-000OhT-4X for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:46:28 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 22:49:42 GMT Message-ID: <200532224942.682564@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.52 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, Danko pro la utila instrukto. Semblas a me ke, se ni adop= tus *epopeo, ni bezonus kelke ridefinar "epika". Me adjuntas nun la vorti = *dramatiko, *oratoriko, *jesto e *zarzuelo a mea laborolisto. La vorto "kan= sono" ja existas en Ido. Ka retoriko esas altra sub-jenro di *oratoriko? Ka= sub epiko ni bezonas anke vorto quale *eposo (poezio rakontala ma ne heroa= la)? Ka *zarzuelo esas nur Hispanatra, od irga "lejera" muzikajo teatrala,= inkluzanta la sorto por qua la ne tre klara Angla vorto esas "musical" (ex= emple en Usa "South Pacific" e "The Sound of Music" da Rodgers e Hammerstei= n)? Se yes, ol solvus la problemo pri quale tradukar "musical" (substantivo= ). Multa danko anke pri vua ofro durar helpar. Yes, me komprenas la adjun= to dil Portugalana (ye maniero di Interlingua), quale vu propozas. To certe= helpos kande apta vorto ne esas evidenta de la altra lingui egardata. Rob= ert. _________ Vu skribis: Kara Robert, Vu questionas me pri la difero= inter *epopeo ed epikajo. Por komplete respondizar vua questiono oportas p= rizentar la nociono pri jenro literatural. 1) Quo es jenro literatural? J= enro literatural es distinta grupo o kategorio de literaturala verki kun ko= muna kontenajo o komuna traiti stilal. On dicernas plura jenri literatural.= 2) Quale klasifikar la jenri literatural? La klasifiki varias segun auto= ri, skoli, epoki e mem modi. Tamen multa autori asentas la sequanta klasifi= ko: liriko epiko *dramatiko didaktiko *oratoriko 3) Traiti dil jenri, e p= lusa divido en sub-jenri a) Liriko La liriko expresas sentimenti e pensi.= En ol preponderas la subjektaleso dil autoro. Ordinare on skribas lirikaji= verse, ma li existas anke proze. La precipua sub-jenri lirikal en verso-fo= rmo es: odo, elegio, eklogo, satiro, soneto e *kansono. b) Epiko La epiko= naracas eventi reala od imaginita di qui la protagonisto es la autoro ipsa= od altru. Ol es esence objektala. Tradicione on expresis la epiko verse, m= a depos la mez-epoko la prozo pokope komencis preponderar en ol. La precipu= a sub-jenri epikal en verso- formo es: epikal poemo, *epopeo, romanco e *je= sto. Proze on dicernas precipue la sequanta sub-jenri: rakonto, novelo, rom= ano e legendo. c) *Dramatiko La *dramatiko es la jenro uzata en teatro. P= er dialogi e kelka roli la autoro prizentas diversa konflikti. On povas skr= ibar la dialogi verse o proze. La precipua skopo es plear li koram audantar= o, e do oportas egardar ta punto dum kompozar li. Precipua sub-jenri *drama= tikal: tragedio, komedio, dramato, opero e *zarzuelo. d) Didaktiko La did= aktiko vizas docar ulo. Olua precipua sub-jenri es: fablo, epistolo, esayo = e recenso. e) *Oratoriko La *oratoriko vizas konvinkar o persuadar audant= aro. Olua precipua sub-jenro es la diskurso. 4) Por ne tro longigar ca tex= to me nun traktos nur la versa sub-jenri dil epiko: a) Epikala poemo La e= pikala poemo naracas heroala prodaji kun la skopo gloriizar la patrio. Exem= pli: 'Eneido' da Vergilio, 'La Luzidi' da Cam=F5es. b) *Epopeo La *epopeo= es grandioza e solena epikala poemo qua naracas evento tre importanta por = la homaro o manifestas la spirito di tota populo o civilizeso. Exempli: 'Ra= mayano' da Valmiki, 'Iliado' ed 'Odiseo' da Homero e 'La Nibelungi' (anonim= a). (Ula autori ne dicernas *epopei de epikala poemi, nomante la sama verk= o lore *epopeo lore epikala poemo) c) Romanco La romanco es poemo ek vers= i oksilaba kun asonancoza rimo en le para, qua deskriptas agi milital o kav= alieratra. d) *Jesto La *jesto es mez-epokala poemo qua naracas la prodaj= i di historiala o legendala heroi. 4) Quo es epikajo? Nu, on devus questi= onar la autori di nia dicionarii, se li ankore esus vivanta. Me supozas ke = 'epikajo' es generala termino inkluzanta singa epikala verko. Segun ca krit= erio ne nur *epopei, epikala poemi, romanci e *jesti, ma anke rakonti, nove= li e romani es 'epikaji'. Kelke tro laxa termino, ka ne? Irge-quale esas, t= a laxeso, la ne- dubitebla internacioneso di '*epopeo' e la postuli di rigo= roza nomenklaturo literatural forte rekomendas la traktata "neologismo". K= ordiale, Gon=E7alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1584 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47985 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2005 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2005 00:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO miner.numericable.net) (80.236.3.113) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2005 00:46:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 17173 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2005 00:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by miner.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 3 Mar 2005 00:46:17 -0000 Message-ID: <004901c51f8b$2c11b3c0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <200532211654.025799@SonyFX805> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:51:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.236.3.113 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Robert, Danko pro vua respondo pri *magenta. Pri * koloristiko me trovis en la dicionario dil franca linguo "Lexis Larousse" la sequanta defino : - coloristique : (v.1900) �tude de la couleur et des ph�nom�nes color�s. Do me propozas : * koloritiko ( de kolorito) : studiado de la koloro e de koloroza fenomeni. Quon vu opinionas pri mea altra propozajo *alinear vice aliniar sendita che linguolisto la 28/02/2005 ? Kordiala saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert" � : Envoy� : mercredi 2 mars 2005 22:16 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) Kara Loik, Yes, *magenta esas en mea laborolisto, kun tradukuri AFGHI ma ankore ne R. Tamen, quo esas *koloritiko? Ka vu povas donar tradukuri? Me ne trovas simila vorti en mea Angla o Franca vortolibri. Danko. Kordiale, Robert. __________ Vu skribis: Lore la sintezo sustracionala di kolori esus ciana , *magenta e flava Pri ica afero semblas a me ke la kemio e la *koloritiko traktesis korekte . Amikale, Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1585 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53673 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2005 07:14:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2005 07:14:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2005 07:14:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2005 07:14:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2005 07:14:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:14:50 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1110 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.50 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara Gon=E7alo ed altra (futura) Wikipediisti, Me ne obliviis l' asterisk= i en la texto (furtita da me) =96 me nur livis oli. En la Wikipedio l' ast= erisko uzata en edito-buxeto produktas aden textala pagino buleto o kubeto = (uzebla exemple en listi). Do l' asterisko ne esas uzebla nia-maniere en l= a Wikipedio. Me uzabis ulaloke vice asterisko la questiono-signo en parent= ezi. Bonveno al Wikipedio. Me esas vivanta pruvo, ke omnu povas skribar ch= e la Wikipedio. salutante, Arto Moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.co= m, "Goncalo Neves" wrote: > > Kara Arto Moisio, > > = > Me furtis Vua texto pri literaturala jenri ed adjuntis ol che Idala > > W= ikipedio ( http://io.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literaturo ). > > Me deziras ke Vu = ne iracas. > > Me tote ne iracas. Tamen vu obliviis la asteriski. Pluse, m= e ne es > certa ka 'Kalevala' es *epopeo od epikala poemo. Kelka yari ante= nun > me lektis cirkume triimo del verko, ma dume me obliviis multa detal= i. > > Nu, me esperas ke anke me povos uldie skribar texti por la Idala >= Wikipedio. > > Kordiale, > > Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1586 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14862 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2005 14:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2005 14:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep18-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.13) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2005 14:26:18 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep18-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with SMTP id <20050303142617.GBYI4045.amsfep18-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:26:17 +0100 Message-ID: <013701c51ffc$a81d2870$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <200532224942.682564@SonyFX805> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:24:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.13 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: muzikalo (esis: *epopeo) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kar Robert, Gon�alo, Ka 'vodevilo'ne es *zarzuelo? E ka "musicall" ne povas tradukesar per 'muzikalo'? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kara Gon�alo, Danko pro la utila instrukto. Semblas a me ke, se ni adoptus *epopeo, ni bezonus kelke ridefinar "epika". Me adjuntas nun la vorti *dramatiko, *oratoriko, *jesto e *zarzuelo a mea laborolisto. La vorto "kansono" ja existas en Ido. Ka retoriko esas altra sub-jenro di *oratoriko? Ka sub epiko ni bezonas anke vorto quale *eposo (poezio rakontala ma ne heroala)? Ka *zarzuelo esas nur Hispanatra, od irga "lejera" muzikajo teatrala, inkluzanta la sorto por qua la ne tre klara Angla vorto esas "musical" (exemple en Usa "South Pacific" e "The Sound of Music" da Rodgers e Hammerstein)? Se yes, ol solvus la problemo pri quale tradukar "musical" (substantivo). Multa danko anke pri vua ofro durar helpar. Yes, me komprenas la adjunto dil Portugalana (ye maniero di Interlingua), quale vu propozas. To certe helpos kande apta vorto ne esas evidenta de la altra lingui egardata. Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1587 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83106 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2005 14:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2005 14:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.23) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2005 14:36:14 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20050303143612.YQOR11192.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:36:12 +0100 Message-ID: <013801c51ffe$0d4ecef0$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:34:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.23 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Gon�alo, Certe la penso-modo vua es legitima, nam poke (ma fakte) la Nederlandana formo es uzata kom alternativo apud la Germana, quale ni mem vidis en la lasta listo di propozita nova vorti, sendita da Robert Carnaghan. Tale me ulafoye propozis uzar la Polona (o forsan altra slava linguo) kom alternativa formo apud la Rusa, por fortigar la poziciono di la slava lingui en Ido. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kara Robert, Yes, me volunte duros helpar vu quale til nun. Pri la Portugalana me devas pluse dicar ke me ne intencis propozar nova sistemo: A F G H I R P Vice to mea propozo es: A F G H/P I R Od altre dicite, la Portugalana ne kom simpla adjuntajo ma nur kom alternativo, kande analizata termino ne trovesas en la Hispana (exemple: la antea analizo pri *kashuo/kajuo). Kande analizata termino trovesas en la Hispana, ne ese necesa (nek konvenanta) egardar la Portugalana. Irge-quale esas, on nultempe devus akumular la "voto-nombri" di la du lingui. Pri *epopeo me sendis aparta mesajo. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1588 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53669 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2005 19:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2005 19:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2005 19:00:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2005 19:00:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2005 19:00:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:00:46 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <013801c51ffe$0d4ecef0$acef5dd5@azalia> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 494 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.16 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Hans, > la Nederlandana > formo es uzata kom alternativo apud la Ger= mana, quale ni mem vidis en la > lasta listo di propozita nova vorti, send= ita da Robert Carnaghan. > Tale me ulafoye propozis uzar la Polona (o fors= an altra slava linguo) kom > alternativa formo apud la Rusa, por fortigar = la poziciono di la slava lingui > en Ido. Me konsentas a vua propozo (e p= ri la Nederlandana e pri la Polona). (pos kelka dii me skribos plu detaloz= e pri ca temo) Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1589 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65923 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 04:09:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 04:09:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.158) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 04:09:54 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050304040948.GFPL22141.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:09:48 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.136] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050304040948.OVOY22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:09:48 +1300 To: Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 17:09:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050304040948.OVOY22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.136]> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 210.86.15.158 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] cyana/ciana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Danko por vua remarki e me konkordas ke ula nova vorti bezonos= konsidero da ULI. Du punti: (1) En angla, =91cyan=92 es nomo di koloro = (ma kustume nur en lumo-cienco) e semblas saja ke Ido nun uzas la simpla vo= rto *ciano. La kemiala uzado sempre havas plu longa vorti quale *cianogeno,= *cianido, *cianato, *ferociando, *hidrocianacido, edc. (2) Plura substan= tivi existas kun finalo =91-iko=92 e havas l=92adjektivala sufixo =91-ika= =92, ex. lirika, klasika, efika. Tala sufixo ni anke vidas en F: -ique, G:= -ische e H: =91-ico=92. Ma =91-ika=92 es sufixo =3D =91malada per=92 e me= sentas ke en la moderna mondo ni devas uzar la plu medicinala termino, ex.= kordio-infarkto, kordio-atako vice la nepreciza =91kordiika=92 (ne =91kor= dio-stando=92!). Forsan =91-ika=92 povas esar ordinara adjektivala finalo, = sen =91maladeso=92 senco. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Robert > Date: 2005/03/02 Wed AM 01:43:23 GMT+13:00 > To: > Subject: Re: [linguo] cyana/ciana > > [Non-text = portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1590 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65278 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 10:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 10:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp111.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.170.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 10:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.65.64 with login) by smtp111.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 10:46:52 -0000 To: , Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:46:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c520a7$7a1ee700$4041fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.170.9 From: "Krayono" Subject: astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Partaka, kara samideani Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) de= vus suficar por nia linguo internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula m= onati ante nun importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da Pesch ne es= as la maxim bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le =93Dyer=94 esas maxim apta dicionarii = por lernar Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Ido= ? Me havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas le maxim apta me mu= stus kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me vua opiniono carelate, na= m me supozas ke vu kompris la du Dyer-vortari. Me komprus oli se vu dicas a= me ke oli esas vere importanta por plubonigar la Ido-savo. Pri =93dekl= ino / deklinaciono=94 Malgre ke la vorto =93deklino=94 semblas esar apta s= egun la dicionario da Pesch, meaopinione la vorto =93deklinaciono=94 esas p= lu apta kam =93deklino=94 pro: 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp= : Declinaci=F3n, Port: Declina=E7=E3o, Germ: Deklination, Angl: Declination= , Fran: D=E9clinaison, Ital: Declinazione, Espe: Deklinacio) 2e- On evitas = ambigueso, e miskompreno. Pri =93ascensiono / acensiono / acenso=94 Se= mblas a me maxim apta =93acensiono=94 pro: 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona = vorto. (Hisp: Ascensi=F3n recta, Port: Ascen=E7=E3o reta, Germ: Rektaszensi= on, Angl: Right ascention, Fran: Ascension droite, Ital: Ascensione retta, = Espe: Rekta ascencio) 2e- Ol tote ne relatas la Ido-verbo =93acensar=94. = Mea savo astronomial esas mikra, simple amatora. Evidente mea savo Idal = ne suficas por savar la maxim apta vorto uzebla. Ma me supozas ke Ido inten= cas, kom maxim apta linguo internaciona, evitar la miskompreno e la ambigue= so ed adoptar omnakaze la maxim internaciona vorto, do Ido-vorto devas esar= tote komprenebla irgaloke, ne ambigua vorto, e maxim internaciona, se posi= ble. Pro ke opiniono de altra Idisti forsan esos utila, me anke sendos = ca mesajo aden la forumo =93linguolisto=94. Tre poka Idisti semblas prizar = la astronomio, nam tre poka personi lektas la Ido-versiono di la revueto = =93Astronomiala kayereto=94 (olqua forsan ne plus publikigesos), ma vu ed a= ltra samideani esas apta linguisti, do via opinioni esas valoroza. Ami= kala salutin sendas Fernando Tej=F3n -----Mensaje original----- = De: Partaka [mailto:qualevistandas@yahoo.es] Enviado el: viernes, 04 de ma= rzo de 2005 2:00 Para: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [IdoCatalaO= ccitan] RE: Pri "ascensiono" e "deklin(acion)o" Tamen, kar Fernando, f= orsan, anke cakaze, omno es multe plu simpla: Ultre olta da Pesch, ka tu k= onsultabas la Dyer-dicionario? Ibe on aludas maxim direte (che l' verbo ace= nsar) ta koncepto astronomial per "acenso rekta" (o rekta acenso). E che l'= verbo "deklinar", anke aludesas l'astronomial "deklino". Konseque, malgre= ke l' formi "acensiono" e "deklinaciono" esas ya bonaspektanta, forsan esu= s konvenanta ri-konsiderar ic afero, e do par-aceptar ed uzadar "acenso rek= ta" e "deklino" en astronomio. Me audacus introduktar nova vorti takoncept= e, nur kaze ke me posedus alta nivelo pri astronomio e, pluse, alta nivelo = Idal. La kuntexto ipsa di kayereto astronomial' semblas evitar ya irga pos= ibla miskompreno od ambigueso koncerne ta du expresuri. Saluti e til balde= ! P A R T A K A --- En IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, "Krayono" skribis: > Kara Partaka > > > > Pri "deklino": > > Yen = skrib-eroro da me en A.K.; en mea "informiva artikleto" me skribis > korekt= e la vorto "deklinaciono", me ya preferas ta lasta vorto, ma... > > Ek la = libro "Diccionario di la 10000 radiki..." da Marcel Pesch (pagino > 100ma):= > > Deklinar. (trans.) I- Enuncar la serio de la dezinenci (di kazi, di >= genri, di nombri) tra qua pasas nomo, pronomo, adjektivo qualifikala en > = ula lingui. II- (pri astro) Distar de la equatoro di la sfero cielala, > su= pere o sube. III- (pri la magnet-angulo) Deviacar de la meridiano > ter-glo= bala, per ula angulo. =96 DEFIS. > > Pri "ascensiono": > > Malgre ke "asc= ensiono" ne esas desfacile pronuncebla, esas formo sat > internaciona (anke= en Esperanto: rekta ascencio ), nulatempe en KGD me > lektis ulo pri inter= diktita konsonanti-asemblo, ed ol tote ne relatas la > verbo "acensar", me = uzos denun la vorto "acensiono". Me simple bezonas > maxim apta astronomial= a vorti por uzar oli en A.K., se me ne trovas oli > en Ido-vortari lore me = serchas la maxim internaciona vorto apta, de mea > vido-punto, ma me ne esa= s linguisto... > > Irgakaze "acensiono" bonaspektas. > > Obrigado pela aj= uda ! > > Fernando Tej=F3n. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Partaka [ma= ilto:qualevistandas@y...] > Enviado el: jueves, 03 de marzo de 2005 2:00 >= Para: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com > Asunto: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Pri "a= scensiono" e "deklin(acion)o" > > Saluto, Fernando! > > Me savas ya presk= e nulo pri astronomio, tamen > me kredas, ke l' vorto "deklino" es ne-apta = ibe, > nam en Ido ja existas la verbo "deklinar" ed ol ya > relatas aferi g= ramatikal. Forsan "deklinaciono" o > "deklinaco" darfus aceptesar. > > Ma,= segun me, la formo "ascensiono" es ya tote > diskutenda: nulu 'dubtas' pri= olua internacioneso, > ma l'ortografio d'ica vorto' nule fitas ad Ido (me = > savas pri nul Ido-vorto qua komencas per "asc, esc, > isc, osc o usc", pr= o ke ni takaze desaparigas la > litero > qua preiras la "c": a(s)censar, e(= x)cepte, > e(x)celanta, > o(c)cidento, edc. > Kaze ke tal vorto astronomial= ne relatas la verbo > "acensar", forsan ni darfus uzar la formo "acensiono= ". > Tale, "acensiono" e "deklinaciono" bonaspekteskas. > > Maxim kordiale= ... > > > P A R T A K A > > > > > Pri "Ascensiono" voluntez lektar "vo= rtareto > > astronomiala" en A.K. numero > > 11, e ta artikleto informiva d= a me: > > > > > > > > <<<<<<<< > > > > Ube esas astro sur la cielo? > = > > > > > > > CIEL-EQUATORIALA SISTEMO: > > > > > > > > 1-REKTA ASC= ENSIONO.- > > > > Angula disto, mezurata adeste inter la equinoxa > > pun= to e la meridiano di > > astro. > > > > Hisp: Ascensi=F3n recta > > > > P= ort: Ascen=E7=E3o reta > > > > Germ: Rektaszension > > > > Angl: Right as= cention > > > > Fran: Ascension droite > > > > Ital: Ascensione retta > >= > > Espe: Rekta ascencio > > > > > > > > 2-DEKLINACIONO.- > > > > An= gula disto de astro a la ciela equatoro. > > > > Hisp: Declinaci=F3n > > = > > Port: Declina=E7=E3o > > > > Germ: Deklination > > > > Angl: Declinat= ion > > > > Fran: D=E9clinaison > > > > Ital: Declinazione > > > > Espe:= Deklinacio > > > > > > > > HORIZONTALA SISTEMO: > > > > > > > > 1-= AZIMUTO.- > > > > Angulo formacata da la plano meridiana di loko, kun > > = la plano vertikala > > qua pasas tra punto quan onu konsideras. > > > > Hi= sp: Acimut > > > > Port: Azimute > > > > Germ: Azimut > > > > Angl: Azim= uth > > > > Fran: Azimut > > > > Ital: Azimut > > > > Espe: Azimuto > > = > > > > > > 2-ALTITUDO (od ALT-ANGULO).- > > > > Angulo de la horizont= o ad astro. > > > > Hisp: Altitudo > > > > Port: Altura > > > > Germ: H= =F6he > > > > Angl: Elevation > > > > Fran: Hauteur > > > > Ital: Altezz= a > > > > Port: Altura > > > > Espe: Altitudo > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > = > Amikala salutin sendas > > > > Fernando Tej=F3n. [Non-text portions o= f this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1591 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69469 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 12:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 12:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.28) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 12:43:56 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20050304124324.HIYD12698.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:43:24 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01c520b7$6f942150$acef5dd5@azalia> To: , References: <000001c520a7$7a1ee700$4041fed5@alcali> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:41:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.28 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Fernando, Ta sama importanta Idisto, anke dicis ke Dyer ne es la maxim bona dicionario, nam anke ta libro kontenas erori. Me sugestas ke vu tamen komprez "10.000 radiki di la linguo internaciona Ido", nam ol advere es utila libro, malgre olua erori. Ka ne omna Ido-libri kontenas eror(et)i? "10.000 Radiki" (600 pagini!) es obtenebla per la Germana Ido-Societo, en bele riimprimita versiono (29,-- euro exkl. afrankuro). Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kara Partaka, kara samideani Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus suficar por nia linguo internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula monati ante nun importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da Pesch ne esas la maxim bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le "Dyer" esas maxim apta dicionarii por lernar Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Ido? Me havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas le maxim apta me mustus kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me vua opiniono carelate, nam me supozas ke vu kompris la du Dyer-vortari. Me komprus oli se vu dicas a me ke oli esas vere importanta por plubonigar la Ido-savo. Pri "deklino / deklinaciono" Malgre ke la vorto "deklino" semblas esar apta segun la dicionario da Pesch, meaopinione la vorto "deklinaciono" esas plu apta kam "deklino" pro: 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: Declinaci�n, Port: Declina��o, Germ: Deklination, Angl: Declination, Fran: D�clinaison, Ital: Declinazione, Espe: Deklinacio) 2e- On evitas ambigueso, e miskompreno. Pri "ascensiono / acensiono / acenso" Semblas a me maxim apta "acensiono" pro: 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: Ascensi�n recta, Port: Ascen��o reta, Germ: Rektaszension, Angl: Right ascention, Fran: Ascension droite, Ital: Ascensione retta, Espe: Rekta ascencio) 2e- Ol tote ne relatas la Ido-verbo "acensar". Mea savo astronomial esas mikra, simple amatora. Evidente mea savo Idal ne suficas por savar la maxim apta vorto uzebla. Ma me supozas ke Ido intencas, kom maxim apta linguo internaciona, evitar la miskompreno e la ambigueso ed adoptar omnakaze la maxim internaciona vorto, do Ido-vorto devas esar tote komprenebla irgaloke, ne ambigua vorto, e maxim internaciona, se posible. Pro ke opiniono de altra Idisti forsan esos utila, me anke sendos ca mesajo aden la forumo "linguolisto". Tre poka Idisti semblas prizar la astronomio, nam tre poka personi lektas la Ido-versiono di la revueto "Astronomiala kayereto" (olqua forsan ne plus publikigesos), ma vu ed altra samideani esas apta linguisti, do via opinioni esas valoroza. Amikala salutin sendas Fernando Tej�n From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1592 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93649 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 13:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 13:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 13:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.65.232 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 13:59:40 -0000 To: , Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:59:38 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c520c2$68debfe0$e841fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003b01c520b7$6f942150$acef5dd5@azalia> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.163.169.223 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara sioro Hans STUIFBERGEN Pro quo vu sugestas ke me komprez libro se = vu ja savas ke me kompris ta libro plura monati ante nun de la librerio di = la Germana Ido-Societo ? Forsan ton vu obliviis. Me supozas ke esus tre= importanta, fakte nekareebla, ke existus detaloza dicionario Ido-Ido. Evid= ente irga vortaro kontenos erori, ma vice dicar simple =93esas erori en ta = libro=94 me pregus ke singla eroro trovita da experiencoza Idisto en la lib= ro =9310 000 radiki...=94 on montrez publike por korektigo skribe, e maxim = importanta, por koregtigo en futura riimprimiguri. Me intencas pokope enret= igar ta libro, camaniere on povus facile korektigar e plubonigar ol, ma se = ta vortaro esus tre defektoza forsan me devus haltigar ta laboro. Nun m= e pregas ke vu, prezidanto di organizuro Idal, voluntez dicar a me qua Ido-= vortaro esas la maxim apta. Se ta vortaro esas la (o le) Dyer, lore me komp= rus ta vortaro(i). Ma, cakaze, forsan me unesme devus plubonigar mea savo p= ri la Angla, ka ne ? Ma, kad on bezonas savar la Angla (desfortunoze f= akte internaciona linguo) por lernar altra linguo internaciona ? Malgre ke = me poke savas Ido, me koncias ke Ido esas multe plu apta kam la Angla kom l= inguo internaciona, ma quo opinus carelate ti qui nulo savas pri Ido nek pr= i la Angla e devus uzar vortari en la Angla por lernar Ido ? Ka ni bezonas = lore maxim apta vortaro Ido-Ido ? Salutin sendas Fernando Tej=F3n = -----Mensaje original----- De: H. Stuifbergen [mailto:ido.info@chello.nl= ] Enviado el: viernes, 04 de marzo de 2005 13:41 Para: IdoCatalaOccitan@ya= hoogroups.com; linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] a= stronomiala vorti Kara Fernando, Ta sama importanta Idisto, anke dicis= ke Dyer ne es la maxim bona dicionario, nam anke ta libro kontenas erori. = Me sugestas ke vu tamen komprez "10.000 radiki di la linguo internaciona I= do", nam ol advere es utila libro, malgre olua erori. Ka ne omna Ido-libri= kontenas eror(et)i? "10.000 Radiki" (600 pagini!) es obtenebla per la Ger= mana Ido-Societo, en bele riimprimita versiono (29,-- euro exkl. afrankuro)= . Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://group= s.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.c= om/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-F= ORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", = novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Ava= nce/TiaListo1.html Kara Partaka, kara samideani Supozeble dicionario Id= o-Ido (da Pesch) devus suficar por nia linguo internaciona vice uzar altra = vortari... ma ula monati ante nun importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicion= ario da Pesch ne esas la maxim bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le "Dyer" esas maxim a= pta dicionarii por lernar Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por = pose lernar Ido? Me havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas le m= axim apta me mustus kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me vua opinio= no carelate, nam me supozas ke vu kompris la du Dyer-vortari. Me komprus ol= i se vu dicas a me ke oli esas vere importanta por plubonigar la Ido-savo. = Pri "deklino / deklinaciono" Malgre ke la vorto "deklino" semblas esar = apta segun la dicionario da Pesch, meaopinione la vorto "deklinaciono" esas= plu apta kam "deklino" pro: 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: = Declinaci=F3n, Port: Declina=E7=E3o, Germ: Deklination, Angl: Declination, = Fran: D=E9clinaison, Ital: Declinazione, Espe: Deklinacio) 2e- On evitas am= bigueso, e miskompreno. Pri "ascensiono / acensiono / acenso" Semblas a= me maxim apta "acensiono" pro: 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (His= p: Ascensi=F3n recta, Port: Ascen=E7=E3o reta, Germ: Rektaszension, Angl: R= ight ascention, Fran: Ascension droite, Ital: Ascensione retta, Espe: Rekta= ascencio) 2e- Ol tote ne relatas la Ido-verbo "acensar". Mea savo astr= onomial esas mikra, simple amatora. Evidente mea savo Idal ne suficas por s= avar la maxim apta vorto uzebla. Ma me supozas ke Ido intencas, kom maxim a= pta linguo internaciona, evitar la miskompreno e la ambigueso ed adoptar om= nakaze la maxim internaciona vorto, do Ido-vorto devas esar tote komprenebl= a irgaloke, ne ambigua vorto, e maxim internaciona, se posible. Pro ke o= piniono de altra Idisti forsan esos utila, me anke sendos ca mesajo aden la= forumo "linguolisto". Tre poka Idisti semblas prizar la astronomio, nam tr= e poka personi lektas la Ido-versiono di la revueto "Astronomiala kayereto"= (olqua forsan ne plus publikigesos), ma vu ed altra samideani esas apta li= nguisti, do via opinioni esas valoroza. Amikala salutin sendas Fernan= do Tej=F3n Patrocinio de Yahoo! Grupos _____ Enlaces a Yah= oo! Grupos * Para visitar tu grupo en la web, accede a : http://es= .groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ * Para cancelar tu su= scripci=F3n a este grupo, env=EDa un mensaje a: IdoCatalaOccitan-unsubscrib= e@yahoogroups.com * El uso que hagas de Yahoo! Grupos est=E1= sujeto a las Condiciones del se= rvicio de Yahoo!. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1593 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54304 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 14:34:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 14:34:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep15-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 14:34:54 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep15-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.04 201-2131-111-106-20040729) with SMTP id <20050304143447.MJTX12698.amsfep15-int.chello.nl@azalia>; Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:34:47 +0100 Message-ID: <006501c520c6$fb7d3f30$acef5dd5@azalia> To: , References: <000001c520c2$68debfe0$e841fed5@alcali> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:32:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.28 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara amiko sioro Fernando Tej�n, Pardonez me pro mea obliviemeso. Me joyas ke l' importanta verko da Persiko (Pesch) trovesas en vua domo. Certe, vu es justa, importas ke existez detaloza dicionario Ido-Ido. E vu es mem plu justa, ke se libri kontenas erori, ke ta erori esez montrata publike, por ke miskompreni evitesez. Me ne esperas ke vu haltigez la laboro enretigar la libro, nam ni povas konsiderar "10.000 radiki" kom autonoma verko, apud posa korektigita, revizionita edituri. Quankam esos preferinda ke quik l' erori korektigesez, dum la laboro di enretigo. Forsan nia sekretario di Linguala Questioni povez indikar ube trovesas l' erori, e ni povas, dum tempo, omisar la koncernata vorto (lemo) + definuro, por pose riadjuntar oli, korekte. Esus stranja ke on unesme devas lernar l' Angla por esar kapabla lernar Ido. No, konstatante ke omna libri (t.e. dicionarii), havas erori, me kredas ke esos maxim bona lernar per onua matrala linguo, se to es posibla. Per ca forumo, "Linguo-listo" ni omni povas kunlaborar por samatempe laborar pri korekta edituri di nacional-linguala dicionarii, ka ne? Me tre konkordas kun vua lasta questiono, "Ka ni bezonas lore maxim apta vortaro Ido-Ido?", respondante: "yes, lore ni bezonas la maxim apta vortaro Ido-Ido dil instanto, e to ca-instante es 10.000 Radiki da Persiko (Pesch)". de nivoz Amsterdam, varma saluti, Hans Stuifbergen -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kara sioro Hans STUIFBERGEN Pro quo vu sugestas ke me komprez libro se vu ja savas ke me kompris ta libro plura monati ante nun de la librerio di la Germana Ido-Societo ? Forsan ton vu obliviis. Me supozas ke esus tre importanta, fakte nekareebla, ke existus detaloza dicionario Ido-Ido. Evidente irga vortaro kontenos erori, ma vice dicar simple "esas erori en ta libro" me pregus ke singla eroro trovita da experiencoza Idisto en la libro "10 000 radiki..." on montrez publike por korektigo skribe, e maxim importanta, por koregtigo en futura riimprimiguri. Me intencas pokope enretigar ta libro, camaniere on povus facile korektigar e plubonigar ol, ma se ta vortaro esus tre defektoza forsan me devus haltigar ta laboro. Nun me pregas ke vu, prezidanto di organizuro Idal, voluntez dicar a me qua Ido-vortaro esas la maxim apta. Se ta vortaro esas la (o le) Dyer, lore me komprus ta vortaro(i). Ma, cakaze, forsan me unesme devus plubonigar mea savo pri la Angla, ka ne ? Ma, kad on bezonas savar la Angla (desfortunoze fakte internaciona linguo) por lernar altra linguo internaciona ? Malgre ke me poke savas Ido, me koncias ke Ido esas multe plu apta kam la Angla kom linguo internaciona, ma quo opinus carelate ti qui nulo savas pri Ido nek pri la Angla e devus uzar vortari en la Angla por lernar Ido ? Ka ni bezonas lore maxim apta vortaro Ido-Ido ? Salutin sendas Fernando Tej�n From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1594 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25088 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 20:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 20:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 20:59:35 -0000 Received: from gr.189.165.7.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.165.7] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D7JtW-0000To-D8 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:59:34 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:01:49 GMT Message-ID: <20053421149.493460@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <004901c51f8b$2c11b3c0$bf60dc51@landloic> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Loic, Me kredas ke "alinear" esas tro proxima a "lineo", e tale "alin= eo" tro proxima ad "a lineo". Robert. ________________ Loic Landais skri= bis: Kara Robert, Danko pro vua respondo pri =A0*magenta. Pri * kolorist= iko me trovis en la dicionario dil franca linguo "Lexis Larousse" la sequan= ta defino : - coloristique : =A0(v.1900) =E9tude de la couleur et des ph=E9= nom=E8nes color=E9s. Do me propozas : * koloritiko ( de kolorito) : studia= do de la koloro e de koloroza fenomeni. Quon vu opinionas pri mea altra pr= opozajo =A0*alinear vice aliniar sendita che linguolisto la 28/02/2005 ? K= ordiala saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert" =C0=A0: Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 2 = mars 2005 22:16 Objet : Re: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) = Kara Loik, Yes, *magenta esas en mea laborolisto, kun tradukuri AFGHI ma = ankore ne R. Tamen, quo esas *koloritiko? Ka vu povas donar tradukuri? Me = ne trovas simila vorti en mea Angla o Franca vortolibri. Danko. Kordiale,= Robert. __________ Vu skribis: Lore la sintezo sustracionala di kolori e= sus ciana , *magenta e flava Pri ica afero semblas a me ke la kemio e la *= koloritiko traktesis korekte . Amikale, Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1595 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32153 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2005 21:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2005 21:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2005 21:00:50 -0000 Received: from gr.189.165.7.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.165.7] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D7JtU-0000To-RZ for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:59:33 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:01:37 GMT Message-ID: <20053421137.514868@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <013701c51ffc$a81d2870$acef5dd5@azalia> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] muzikalo (esis: *epopeo) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Hans, Vodevilo esas, segun Pesch, "teatrajo mixita kun kupleti", e ku= pleto esas "en kansono plura-strofa,omna parto quan finas refreno". Tre exa= kta o tro preciza? Franca dicionario dicas: vaudeville Com=E9die l=E9ge`= re dont l'intrigue, fertile en rebondissements, repose g=E9n=E9ralement sur= les quiproquos. rebondissement ... =E9pisode nouveau et inattendu. priqu= opro M=E9prise qui fait prendre une chose pour une autre, malentendu. An= gla dicionario dicas: vaudeville Variety entertainment; a play interspers= ed with dances and songs incidentally introduced and usually comic; [orig] = a popular song with topical allusions. Me kredas ke vodevilo ne esas narac= o o rakonto kun kansoni e muziko, ma macedonio (variajo), generale humoroza= , kun kansoni ma ofte anke altra peci, exemple joki e forsan jonglo od eska= moto, e tale generala distrajo. La Angla vorto "musical" (substantivo) esa= s mala, ed en Ido "muzikalo" anke esus mala, nam multe tro generala. Koncer= ti, dueti, operi esas muzikala. Kordiale, Robert. _________________ Kar= Robert, Gon=E7alo, Ka 'vodevilo'ne es *zarzuelo? E ka "musicall" ne pova= s tradukesar per 'muzikalo'? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1596 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80491 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2005 18:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2005 18:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2005 18:20:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 51363 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Mar 2005 18:20:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20050305182025.51361.qmail@web26602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.101] by web26602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Mar 2005 19:20:25 CET Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 19:20:25 +0100 (CET) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000001c520a7$7a1ee700$4041fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 217.146.176.52 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Maxim amikal saluto, Fernando! Tu skribis: > Kara Partaka, kara samideani > > > > Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus > suficar por nia linguo > internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula > monati ante nun > importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da > Pesch ne esas la maxim > bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le �Dyer� esas maxim apta > dicionarii por lernar > Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por > pose lernar Ido? Me > havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas > le maxim apta me > mustus kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me > vua opiniono > carelate, nam me supozas ke vu kompris la du > Dyer-vortari. Me komprus > oli se vu dicas a me ke oli esas vere importanta por > plubonigar la > Ido-savo. Me sincere ne savas, ka l' vortari da Dyer es maxim apta, tamen me es certa, ke oli es utileg a me. Me posedas nek olci, nek olta da Pesch, do me darfas rekomendar nulo tarelate, ma irgakaze me konsideras Dyer-vortari kom maxim konsultinda, mem se, quale meakaze, on havas nur limitizita kompreno pri l'Angla. > Pri �deklino / deklinaciono� > > Malgre ke la vorto �deklino� semblas esar apta segun > la dicionario da > Pesch, meaopinione la vorto �deklinaciono� esas plu > apta kam �deklino� > pro: > > 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: > Declinaci�n, Port: > Declina��o, Germ: Deklination, Angl: Declination, > Fran: D�clinaison, > Ital: Declinazione, Espe: Deklinacio) > 2e- On evitas ambigueso, e miskompreno. > > > > Pri �ascensiono / acensiono / acenso� > > Semblas a me maxim apta �acensiono� pro: > > 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: > Ascensi�n recta, Port: > Ascen��o reta, Germ: Rektaszension, Angl: Right > ascention, Fran: > Ascension droite, Ital: Ascensione retta, Espe: > Rekta ascencio) > > 2e- Ol tote ne relatas la Ido-verbo �acensar�. Forsan me ne ja tote komprenabas quon on referas, kande (en Ido) on 'parlas' pri unsenceso... Ka ni darfas pensar, ke nia savoza pioniri (Pesch, Dyer e cetera samtempani) tante grave eroris per inkluzir la koncepti astronomial "acenso" e "deklino" che l' verbi komuna, nome "acensar" e "deklinar"? Me supozas ke, mem kaze ke li savabus nulo pri astronomio, li tre multe sorgabus relate la linguo ipsa e, do, la principo di unsenceso. De lo, me deduktas, ke l'astronomial "acenso" e "deklino" devas, ULMANIERE, relatar la verbi "acensar" e "deklinar". Se ne, on ruptabus ya la regulo pri vortal unsenceso. Altralatere, kara Fernando, notez ke, quankam ni posedas ya kelka substantivi finanta per "-ion.o" (opiniono, poziciono, edc.), maxim ofte' ni simple substantivigas la verbi komuna. Quon to signifikas? To signifikas, ke ni nur eventuale bezonas adoptar Ido-verbo (o substantivo) finanta per "ion.ar" (ion.o). Altravorte: segun me, kande ni dicas, por exemplo, "acenso" o "deklino" ( e anke sama o diferanta formi finanta per "-ado, ajo", edc.), ni fakte aceptabas ed adoptabas, niamaniere, vorti maxim internaciona, qui finas (o preske finas) per "-ion" che nia lingui. > Mea savo astronomial esas mikra, simple amatora. > Evidente mea savo Idal > ne suficas por savar la maxim apta vorto uzebla. Ma > me supozas ke Ido > intencas, kom maxim apta linguo internaciona, evitar > la miskompreno e la > ambigueso ed adoptar omnakaze la maxim internaciona > vorto, do Ido-vorto > devas esar tote komprenebla irgaloke, ne ambigua > vorto, e maxim > internaciona, se posible. > > > > Pro ke opiniono de altra Idisti forsan esos utila, > me anke sendos ca > mesajo aden la forumo �linguolisto�. Tre poka Idisti > semblas prizar la > astronomio, nam tre poka personi lektas la > Ido-versiono di la revueto > �Astronomiala kayereto� (olqua forsan ne plus > publikigesos), Me es certa, ke ol publikigesos adminime til numero 18, to es, tri plusa numeri. E pose, me kurajigas tu durigar ta interesiva revueto... Tamen, se tu advere suspektas (o mem savas), ke ol vekigas quaze nul intereso da ni, me ya komprenus tua motivi decidar ne plus publikigar ol. Kurajo! > ma vu ed > altra samideani esas apta linguisti, do via opinioni > esas valoroza. Pardonez, Fernando!: me ya esas nul apta linguisto! (ne mem modesta linguiston me esas!). Admaxime, me esperas esar pasable apta 'opinanto/opinero'... > Amikala salutin sendas > > > > Fernando Tej�n Danko e til baldege! P A R T A K A ===== Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1597 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78026 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2005 21:21:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2005 21:21:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2005 21:21:28 -0000 Received: from gr.189.172.55.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.172.55] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D7giD-000EuQ-Ne; Sat, 05 Mar 2005 21:21:26 +0000 To: , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 21:23:31 GMT Message-ID: <200535212331.392358@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <000001c520a7$7a1ee700$4041fed5@alcali> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 80.189.94.53 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Fernando, Vu esas certe justa, ke ni bezonas bona vortari. Ka la vort= olibro Ido-Hispana ne suficas por vu maxim ofte, malgre olua neperfekteso? = Certe esas vorti en Pesch qui ne esas en ol, ed inverse. Regretinde, ne es= as simpla afero krear bona vortolibro. Granda esas la laboro bezonata, e pa= rtikulare por dicionario kun defini en la linguo. Semblas ke Marcel Pesch f= acis lua dicionario dum 30 yari (1934-1964 - videz la prefaco). Lu omisis u= la vorti (asertar, atitudo, du, elizionar, emo, municipo, moruso, e.c.), ed= anke facis erori. Tamen, il facis granda laboro, e sen la avantajo di *kom= putoro. Interlingua ankore ne havas bona dicionario kun defini en la lingu= o ipsa. On dicas ke uli esforcis facar mikra dicionario kun cirkume 2000 vo= rti, ma ke li ankore ne sucesis pri to! Me laboradas por kompilar kompleta= listo di omna Ido-vorti, ma la tasko ja okupis multa centi de hori. Segun= mea konti, esas cirkume 9370 vorti oficala en Pesch (9550 entote), e 9660 = vorti (omni oficala) en vortaro Ido-Hispana, ma Pesch omisis preske omna pr= opra nomi, inkluzante nomi di landi, populi e lingui. Semblas ke cirkume 45= 0 vorti esus bezonata por facar la vortaro Ido-Hispana relative kompleta pr= i radiki. Tamen, amba libri omisas preske omna derivuri. Maxim ofte la sen= co di derivuro en Ido esas evidenta de la radiki ed afixi en ol. Me komenci= s facar listo di derivuri di qui la senco ne esas evidenta tale. Exemple la= adjektivo "generala", formale derivita de "genero" - praktike ol esas apar= te lernenda. Tala vorti esas inkluzinda en omna vortaro. Se on volas ke ex= istez plu kompleta vortaro Ido-Hispana, me povas sendar listi di vorti mank= anta se ulu qua savas adminime la Hispana povas insertar la Hispana traduku= ro, e tale ni kreos plu kompleta listo. Voluntez trovar sube tala vorti qui= komencas per litero A o B, kun espero ke uli volos kontributar. Kordiale,= Robert. __________________________ Fernando Tej=F3n skribis (parte): Ka= ra Partaka, kara samideani Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus s= uficar por nia linguo internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula monati= ante nun importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da Pesch ne esas la= maxim bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le =93Dyer=94 esas maxim apta dicionarii por l= ernar Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Ido? Me = havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas le maxim apta me mustus = kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me vua opiniono carelate, nam me = supozas ke vu kompris la du Dyer-vortari. Me komprus oli se vu dicas a me k= e oli esas vere importanta por plubonigar la Ido-savo. ___________________= __________________________________________ Voluntez notar ke en ula kazi l= a sama radiko ya esas en la vortaro Ido-Hispana ma kun altra dezinenco. Do,= ne omna radiki hike mankas en ta vortaro. Exemple, hike esas "adyunta" ma = la vortaro ya havas "adyunto". Me ne serchis omna tala kazi. Plu importanta= esas inkluzar "aberacar", nam la inkluzo di "aberaco" ne montras ke exista= s anke ta verbo en Ido. A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; = I=3Ditaliana; aberac.ar [ntr] [fiz.] A: to be subject to aberration [astr.= , opt.] F: =EAtre aberrant [astron., phys.] G: abirren H: aborijen.a A: ab= original F: aborig=E8ne, autochtone H: I: abor=ECgeno adyunt.a A: adjunct = G: beigeordnet (im Amte) H: aes [muz.] A: A flat G: as (durch b erniedrigt= es a) H: ais [muz.] A: A sharp G: ais (durch # erh=F6htes a) H: akromi.o = [anat.] A: acromion, acromion process F: acromion G: Schulterh=F6he des Sch= ulterblatts, Akromion H: albin.a [zool.] A: albino [adj.], albinic H: ald= ehid.o [kem.] A: aldehyde F: aldehyde G: Aldehyd [chem.] H: I: aldeide ale= cit.a [biol.] A: alecithal F: al=E9cithe G: alezithal H: aleuron.o [kem. e= .c.] A: aleurone, aleuron F: aleurone G: Aleuron, Klebermehl H: I: aleurone= alexandrin.o [vers.] A: alexandrine (line, verse) H: I: alessandrino alk= aloid.a [kem.] A: alkaloid [adj.] H: amebocit.o [biol.] / celulo qua aspek= tas simila ad amebo / A: amoebocyte, [US] amebocyte F: amibocyte G: Am=F6bo= zyte H: ameboid.a [biol.] A: amoeboid, [US] ameboid F: amibo=EFde G: am=F6= boid H: amfimixi.o [biol.] A: amphimixis F: amphimixie G: Amphimixis H: a= mitos.o [biol.] A: amitosis F: amitose G: Amitose H: amnion.o / membrano i= nterna ek ti qui tegas feto / A: amnion F: amnione G: Amnion, Lamm-, Schafh= =E4utchen [anat.] H: I: amnio anabios.o [biol.] A: anabiosis F: anabiose G= : Anabiose H: anafaz.o [biol.] A: anaphase F: anaphase G: Anaphase H: ana= lgezi.o [medic.] A: analgesia H: anamnez.ar [tr] [medic.] A: to make an an= amnesis, make a medical case history (of) G: Anamnese, R=FCckerinnerung aus= =FCben H: ? ... anamnesis androdioik.a [bot.] A: androdioecious F: androdi= o=EFque G: androdi=F6zisch H: andromonoik.a [bot.] A: andromonoecious F: a= ndromono=EFque G: andromon=F6zisch H: aneroid.a [fiz.] A: aneroid F: an=E9= roide G: mit luftleerer, d=FCnnwandiger Metallkapsel H: ? aneroide [bar=F3m= etro] I: aneroide angiosperm.o [bot.] A: angiosperm F: angiosperme G: [-i]= Angiospermen, Bedeckt-, H=FCllsamer H: L: Angiospermae anizotrop.a [biol.= ] A: anisotropic F: anisotrope G: anisotrop H: anteridi.o [bot.] A: anther= idium F: anth=E9ridie G: Antheridium H: anterozoid.o [bot.] A: antherozoid= , antherozooid F: anth=E9rozo=EFde G: Antherozoid H: antez.o [bot.] A: ant= hesis F: anth=E8se G: Anthese H: antikatalaz.o [biol.] A: anticatalase F: = anticatalase G: Antikatalase H: antiklin.a [geol.] A: anticlinal F: anticl= ine G: antiklinisch H: antikrist.o [rel.] A: Antichrist F: Ant=E9christ G:= Antichrist, Widerchrist H: antimilitarismo A: antimilitarism F: antimilit= arisme G: Antimilitarismus H: antimilitaristo A: antimilitarist F: antimil= itariste G: Antimilitarist H: apikal.a [biol.] A: apical F: apical G: Sche= itel- H: apogam.a [biol.] A: apogamic, apogamous F: apogame G: apogam H: = apospori.o [bot.] A: apospory F: aposporie G: Aposporie H: apostat.o [rel.= ] A: apostate [n.] G: Abtr=FCnniger, Apostat H: aposteriori.e A: a posteri= ori [adv.] F: a posteriori [adv.] G: a posteriori, aus Erfahrungsgr=FCnden = H: apriori.e A: a priori [adv.] F: a priori [adv.] G: a priori, von vornhe= rein, aus Vernunftgr=FCnden H: arkegoni.o [bot.] A: archegon F: arch=E9gon= e G: Archegonium H: arkespor.o [bot.] A: archesporium F: archespore G: Arc= hespore H: arkiplasm.o [biol.] A: archiplasm F: archiplasme G: Archiplasma= H: arkoplasm.o [biol.] A: archoplasm F: archoplasme G: Archoplasma H: ar= teriit.o [morbo] A: arteritis F: art=E8rite G: Arteriitis, Arterienentz=FCn= dung H: artrodi.o [anat.] A: arthrodia F: arthrodie G: Arthrodie, Kugelgel= enk H: astroid.o [matem.] A: astroid F: astro=EFde G: Astroide [Kurve] H: = astrosfer.o [biol.] A: astrosphere F: astrosph=E8re G: Astrosph=E4re H: a= suncion.o [rel.] A: Assumption (of the Virgin Mary) F: l'Assomption G: Himm= elfahrt Mari=E4, Assumption H: atip.a [biol.] A: atypic, atypical F: atypi= que G: atypisch H: autoblast.o [bot.] A: autoblast F: autoblaste G: Autobl= ast H: autogam.a [biol.] A: autogamous F: autogame G: autogam H: autograf= .a A: autographic, written with one's own hand F: autographe H: I: autograf= o autoliz.o [biol.] A: autolysis F: autolyse G: Autolyse [biol.] H: autom= at.o [aparato] A: automaton F: automate H: I: automa automorfism.o [biol.]= A: automorphism F: automorphisme G: Automorphismus H: automorfos.o [biol.= ] A: automorphosis F: automorphose G: Automorphose H: autospor.o [bot.] A:= autospore F: autospore G: Autospore H: autotomi.o [zool.] A: autotomy F: = autotomie G: Autotomie H: azigospor.o [biol.] A: azygospore F: azygospore = G: Azygospore H: bes [muz.] A: B flat G: B (durch b erniedrigtes H [=3D B = in Ido]) H: bis A: B sharp [music]; for a second time, bis; [interj.] enco= re, again G: His (durch # erh=F6ntes H [=3DB in Ido]) H: bistr.a [koloro] = A: bistre, [US] bister F: bistre [adj.] H: blastem.o [biol.] A: blastema F= : blast=E8me G: Blastem [biol.] H: From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1598 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27183 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2005 21:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2005 21:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep19-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.20) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2005 21:26:59 -0000 Received: from azalia ([213.93.239.172]) by amsfep19-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.05 201-2131-111-107-20040910) with SMTP id <20050305212658.QGYF1799.amsfep19-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2005 22:26:58 +0100 Message-ID: <00ca01c521c9$c1a13d80$acef5dd5@azalia> To: References: <20050305182025.51361.qmail@web26602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 22:24:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 213.46.243.20 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Danko, kara Partaka, pro vua interesanta questiono/propozo pri acensar ed *acensionar e deklinar e *deklinar. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html > Maxim amikal saluto, Fernando! > > Tu skribis: > > > Kara Partaka, kara samideani > > > > > > > > Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus > > suficar por nia linguo > > internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula > > monati ante nun > > importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da > > Pesch ne esas la maxim > > bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le "Dyer" esas maxim apta > > dicionarii por lernar > > Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por > > pose lernar Ido? Me > > havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas > > le maxim apta me > > mustus kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me > > vua opiniono > > carelate, nam me supozas ke vu kompris la du > > Dyer-vortari. Me komprus > > oli se vu dicas a me ke oli esas vere importanta por > > plubonigar la > > Ido-savo. > > Me sincere ne savas, ka l' vortari da Dyer es maxim > apta, tamen me es certa, ke oli es utileg a me. Me > posedas nek olci, nek olta da Pesch, do me darfas > rekomendar nulo tarelate, ma irgakaze me konsideras > Dyer-vortari kom maxim konsultinda, mem se, quale > meakaze, on havas nur limitizita kompreno pri l'Angla. > > > > Pri "deklino / deklinaciono" > > > > Malgre ke la vorto "deklino" semblas esar apta segun > > la dicionario da > > Pesch, meaopinione la vorto "deklinaciono" esas plu > > apta kam "deklino" > > pro: > > > > 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: > > Declinaci�n, Port: > > Declina��o, Germ: Deklination, Angl: Declination, > > Fran: D�clinaison, > > Ital: Declinazione, Espe: Deklinacio) > > 2e- On evitas ambigueso, e miskompreno. > > > > > > > > Pri "ascensiono / acensiono / acenso" > > > > Semblas a me maxim apta "acensiono" pro: > > > > 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: > > Ascensi�n recta, Port: > > Ascen��o reta, Germ: Rektaszension, Angl: Right > > ascention, Fran: > > Ascension droite, Ital: Ascensione retta, Espe: > > Rekta ascencio) > > > > 2e- Ol tote ne relatas la Ido-verbo "acensar". > > Forsan me ne ja tote komprenabas quon on referas, > kande (en Ido) on 'parlas' pri unsenceso... > Ka ni darfas pensar, ke nia savoza pioniri (Pesch, > Dyer e cetera samtempani) tante grave eroris per > inkluzir la koncepti astronomial "acenso" e "deklino" > che l' verbi komuna, nome "acensar" e "deklinar"? > Me supozas ke, mem kaze ke li savabus nulo pri > astronomio, li tre multe sorgabus relate la linguo > ipsa e, do, la principo di unsenceso. De lo, me > deduktas, ke l'astronomial "acenso" e "deklino" devas, > ULMANIERE, relatar la verbi "acensar" e "deklinar". > Se ne, on ruptabus ya la regulo pri vortal unsenceso. > > Altralatere, kara Fernando, notez ke, quankam ni > posedas ya kelka substantivi finanta per "-ion.o" > (opiniono, poziciono, edc.), maxim ofte' ni simple > substantivigas la verbi komuna. Quon to signifikas? > To signifikas, ke ni nur eventuale bezonas adoptar > Ido-verbo (o substantivo) finanta per "ion.ar" > (ion.o). > Altravorte: segun me, kande ni dicas, por exemplo, > "acenso" o "deklino" ( e anke sama o diferanta formi > finanta per "-ado, ajo", edc.), ni fakte aceptabas ed > adoptabas, niamaniere, vorti maxim internaciona, > qui finas (o preske finas) per "-ion" che nia lingui. > > > > Mea savo astronomial esas mikra, simple amatora. > > Evidente mea savo Idal > > ne suficas por savar la maxim apta vorto uzebla. Ma > > me supozas ke Ido > > intencas, kom maxim apta linguo internaciona, evitar > > la miskompreno e la > > ambigueso ed adoptar omnakaze la maxim internaciona > > vorto, do Ido-vorto > > devas esar tote komprenebla irgaloke, ne ambigua > > vorto, e maxim > > internaciona, se posible. > > > > > > > > Pro ke opiniono de altra Idisti forsan esos utila, > > me anke sendos ca > > mesajo aden la forumo "linguolisto". Tre poka Idisti > > semblas prizar la > > astronomio, nam tre poka personi lektas la > > Ido-versiono di la revueto > > "Astronomiala kayereto" (olqua forsan ne plus > > publikigesos), > > Me es certa, ke ol publikigesos adminime til numero > 18, to es, tri plusa numeri. E pose, me kurajigas tu > durigar ta interesiva revueto... > Tamen, se tu advere suspektas (o mem savas), ke > ol vekigas quaze nul intereso da ni, me ya komprenus > tua motivi decidar ne plus publikigar ol. Kurajo! > > > > ma vu ed > > altra samideani esas apta linguisti, do via opinioni > > esas valoroza. > > Pardonez, Fernando!: me ya esas nul apta linguisto! > (ne mem modesta linguiston me esas!). Admaxime, > me esperas esar pasable apta 'opinanto/opinero'... > > > Amikala salutin sendas > > > > > > > > Fernando Tej�n > > Danko e til baldege! > > > P A R T A K A > > > ===== > Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1599 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85310 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2005 21:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2005 21:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2005 21:18:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2005 21:16:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2005 21:16:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 21:16:31 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c520a7$7a1ee700$4041fed5@alcali> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 7529 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Fernando, Yen kelka komenti pri vua mesajo e vua questioni pri dicio= narii. Me respondos kom tradukisto e lexikografo ed esforcos esar ne nur = honesta ma anke yusta, objektala e senpartisa. 1) Pri dicionarii generale = Omna dicionarii kontenas erori. Absolute omna. Omna senecepte. Mem la max= im prestijoza dicionarii skribita dal maxim erudita experti (Larousse, Oxf= ord e.c.) kontenas erori. De to konsequas ke por evaluar dicionario ne suf= icas dicar ke ol es eroroza. Oportas trovar altra kriterii evaluanta. Exem= ple oportas savar: a) Ka la erori es sistematra o nur hazardala. b) Ka la= erori konsequas de manko di atenco o revizo, o de manko di linguo-savo. = c) Ka la erori koncernas la defini ipsa od importanta reguli gramatikal. = d) Ka la erori povus eventuale konfundigar neerudita o neexperta lektero e= d igar lu ipsa facar la sama o simila erori dum parolar o skribar la lingu= o, o kontraste, ka tala lektero facile remarkus ke koncernesas erori ed es= us kapabla klarigar li per konsultar la dicionario. e) Ka la defini (malg= re eventuala erori) es kompleta, klara e facile komprenebla. e.c., e.c., = e.c. 2) Pri la dicionario da Pesch La dicionario da Pesch es nia unika un= -lingua Ido-dicionario. Do on ne povas komparar ol kun altra dicionarii (= exemple kun la dicionarii da Dyer, qui es du-lingua). La skopo e traiti di= un-lingua dicionarii ne es la sama kam la skopo e traiti di du-lingua dic= ionarii. On do ne povas komparar l'uni kun l'altri. Es do sensenca dicar k= e la dicionario da Pesh es =ABla maxim bona=BB, o ke ol =ABne es la maxima= bona=BB. Por dicar lo oportus disponar altra dicionarii kun qui on povus= komparar ol. Ne havante li, ni darfas nur dicar ke la dicionario da Pesch= es mala o bona, segun nia evaluo, ma ni ne darfas facar komparo absoluta = (=ABla maxim bona=BB o =ABla maxim mala=BB). Pos la supera precizigo mi nu= n regardez la problemo tra altra prismato: ka la dicionario da Pesch es ma= la o bona? Ante respondizar ta questiono oportas savar ka Pesch satisfacis= la premisi quin il ipsa formuligis. Pri qua premisi me parolas? La autor= o ipsa detaligis li en la prefaco di sua verko (p. 2): =ABMea rolo, en la = produkto di ca verko, konsistis ye: 1. tradukar en Ido la defini Akademial= a (di qui la originalo esis en la Franca); 2. indikar, pri singla ek la ve= rbi, ka lu esas transitiva o netransitiva, e, pri ca kazo, qua prepozicion= o esas uzenda logikale; 3. donar la simboli kemiala; 4. donar, pri la anima= li e la planti, lia nomo Latina; 5. mencionar la DEFIRS-grado di singla rad= iko.=BB La autoro formuligis kin premisi. Kad il satisfacis li omna? Send= ubite. Il ya tradukis la defini Akademiala, indikis (ne) transitiveso, doni= s simboli kemiala, donis nomi Latina di planti e bestii e montris la DEFIR= S-grado di singla radiko. Il plene satisfacis la premisi. Il atingis sua s= kopo. Segun ca kriterio on do devas judikar la dicionario da Pesch kom bon= a. Tamen... Tamen on ofte reprochas a Pesch la sequanta peki: a) Ke la de= fini generale es nekompleta, neprofunda e sendetala. b) Ke ula defini es er= oroza. c) Ke mankas derivuri. d) Ke mankas exemplo-frazi. e) Ke trovesas er= ori pri la DEFIRS-grado. f) Ke mankas kelka vorti. g) Ke trovesas erori gra= matikal e stilal. Nu, judikante honeste ed objektale on devas konfesar ke = on tote ne darfas blamar Pesch pro la unesma kin punti [de a) til e)]. Pro= quo? Yen la motivo: a) Pesch nur tradukis del Franca la Akademiala defin= i. Se la defini ja esis nekompleta, neprofunda e sendetala en la originala= jo, Pesch tote ne kulpas pro to. On do blamez la akademiani qui skribis li= . b) Sama respondo. On blamez la akademiani. c) Pesch nultempe dicis ke i= lua dicionario kontenos derivuri. d) Pesch nultempe dicis ke ilua dicionar= io kontenos exemplo-frazi. e) Pesch simple prenis indiki pri la DEFIRS-gra= do de altra verki (precipue del dicionario da Dyer). Il do kopiis la erori= da altri (exemple `gepardo' ne es DFRS ma DFIRS). Pesch es do blamebla n= ur pro la du lasta punti: f) En ilua dicionario mankas ya kelka vorti (vid= ez la koncernanta mesajo da Robert en ca listo). g) Trovesas ya erori gra= matikal e stilal, regretinde. Advere la stilo da Pesch es tro komplikita e= konfuza. Suficas lektar ilua prefaco por konstatar lo. Quankam la defini = ne spricis ek la kapo di Pesch (ni ja vidis ke il tradukis li de Franca or= iginalajo), ilua stilo preponderas en la texto final. Or en dicionario opo= rtas uzar tre simpla, mem limpida stilo, por ke la lektero ne nur ne havez= dubiti pri lo lektata ma anke =96 se posibla =96 sentez kelka plezuro dum= lektar. > Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus suficar por nia l= inguo No, la dicionario da Pesch ne suficas por parlernar Ido, nam mankas = derivuri e precipue exemplo-frazi. Por parlernar Ido oportas disponar ank= e (o mem nur) la dicionarii da Dyer, precipue ilua Ido-Angla- dicionario. = 3) Pri la dicionarii da Dyer: La Ido-Angla-dicionario da Dyer es marveloza= verko, absolute nekareebla por omna grava [=3D nefrivola] Idisto. Yen olu= a precipua bona traiti: a) Ol prizentas la precipua direta e mediata deri= vuri di singla radiko (exemple: fundamentala, fundamentizar; funcionigar, = funcionero, funcionerismo; e.c., e.c., e.c.) b) Ol prizentas kelka import= anta kompozita vorti de multa radiki (ex. joyo-trublero, omno-tushero, ven= to-flecho, e.c., e.c., e.c.). c) Ol prizentas multega exemplo-frazi. Ne nu= r multega, ma anke tre klara e skopo-konforme elektita. En multa kazi li e= xtraktesis de Progreso, e Dyer tre honeste indikas lia bibliografiala refe= ro. d) Quankam ca dicionario es du-lingua, Dyer ne limitizas su per donar = Angla tradukuro di omna Ido-vorti. Li prizentas anke Idala defino di mult= a vorti, precipue di vorti qui longe o detaloze diskutesis sur la pagini d= i Progreso. Me devas konfesar ke ca defini es multe plu bela, klara, kompr= enebla ed utila kam la defini aparanta en la dicionario da Pesch. En pasab= le multa kazi ca dicionario da Dyer funcionas do kom vera un-lingua Ido-di= cionario e klare supleas la verko da Pesch, kun granda avantaji por la lek= tero. e) Ol kontenas sat detaloza expliki (en tre bona Ido!) pri la signi= fiko-nuanci di vorti qui pro havar proxima senci povus konfundigar lekteri= min atencoza o facile misduktebla da idiotismi o neprecizaji di lia matra= la lingui (exemple: facar/agar, reprochar/reprimandar, amansar/dresar; kla= mar/kriar, koloro/kolorito, demandar/pregar; sorgar/suciar; quale/kom, ol/= lo, definar/determinar, e.c., e.c., e.c.). Omno supere dicita (e me ne ex= haustis la temo!) montras ke ca verko es absolute nekareebla. Se la nuna I= disti konsultus ol plu ofte e plu diligente, ne pululus tanta erori en nia= revui ed en nia forumi elektronikal. Anke la altra dicionario da Dyer (= 'English-Ido Dictionary') es tre bona, quankam ne tante utila o necesa. An= ke la dicionario da Beaufront e Couturat ('Dictionnaire Fran=E7ais-Ido') e= s tre bona. Regretinde me ne povas dicar la samo pri la Ido-Hispana-dicion= ario da Escuder e Marcilla. Ma forsan to es temo plu apta por la Ido-Hispa= na- forumo... > Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Id= o? No. Vu tote ne mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Ido. La menc= ionita dicionario ('Ido-English Dictionary') kontenas tante multa frazi, d= efini ed expliki en Ido, ke on lernas multege per ofte konsultar ol, mem s= e on savas nula vorto en la Angla. Me do forte rekomendas a vu =96 ed ad o= mni qui lektos ca mesajo =96 la Ido-Angla- dicionario da Dyer. Kun kordial= a saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1600 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42605 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 11:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 11:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 11:10:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 11:08:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 11:08:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:08:17 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1180 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: [linguo] Re: Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Michael, > La metodo di Ido (segun la pioniri di ol) esas kontar la = nombri de > AFGHIR parolanti en Europa qui havas singla selektenda radiko e= n sua > propra lingui. Do, nombri esas fundamentala. Yes, vu es justa. = Tamen on darfas questionar en 2005 (altra mondo kam en 1907...) ka ne ja e= s tempo kelke modifikar (o plu bone: adaptar) ta medoto e komencar konside= rar la nombri di AFGHIR-parolanti anke en la cetera kontinenti. > Esas t= re multa Chiniani, do, ek la lernantaro, forsan tre plu multa > povas trova= r Ido-radiki en sua lingui se la Chiniana esas fonto linguo > di Ido. Yes= , teorie vu es justa. Tamen altra-latere on povas dicar ke Ido- vorti del C= hiniana komprenesus nur da Chiniani, dum ke Ido-vorti de AFGHIR komprenes= as da plura populi. > La linguo Ido ipsa esos plu internaciona > se ol ate= ncus pri Germana radiki vice Portugalana radiki, pro ke AFHI > ja adportas= radiki larje existanta en la Portugalana. Se radiki esas > en la altra f= onta lingui ed anke esas en la Germana, lo esas plu > demonstriva pri inter= nacioneso kam la fakto ke li anke esas en la > Portugalana. Yes, pri ca pu= nto vu es justa. Kun saluti kordiala, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1601 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44004 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 11:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 11:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 11:38:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 11:37:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 11:37:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:37:53 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200532224942.682564@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1678 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, > Ka retoriko esas altra sub-jenro di *oratoriko? No, reto= riko ne es (sub)jenro literatural. Retoriko es serio di reguli e tekniki p= or apte, eloquente e konvinkive diskursar. > Ka sub epiko ni bezonas anke = vorto quale *eposo (poezio rakontala ma ne heroala)? Yes, ni bezonas anke= ta vorto. > Ka *zarzuelo esas nur Hispanatra, Yes. > Se yes, ol solvus= la problemo pri quale tradukar "musical" (substantivo). 'muzikalo' es bo= na tradukuro. Teorie ol es tro generala, ma nur teorie. Regardez la sequan= ta exempli (de la dicionario da Dyer): ped-al-o (A 'pedal; treadle; foot-b= oard') gamb-al-o (A 'boot-leg') Segun sika teorio, 'pedalo' povus signifik= ar irgo quo relatas pedo (exemple: shuo). Tamen la uzo (e la influo di nac= ionala lingui) restrikis ol a konkreta objekto. La sama rezono pri 'gamb= alo': segun sika teorio, ol povus signifikar irgo quo relatas gambo (exemp= le: pantalono). Tamen la uzo (e la influo di nacionala lingui) restriktis= ol a konkreta objekto. Ne che Dyer ma reale uzata es: period-al-o Segun= sika teorio, ol povus signifikar irgo quo eventas o uzesas periodale (exe= mple: menstruo). Tamen la uzo (e la influo di nacionala lingui) restriktis= ol a konkreta objekto (periodala publikigajo). Kelka dii ante nun me trov= is en artiklo da Stevenson: seri-al-o (La kuntexto quik montris ke konce= rnesas serio di televizion-programi pri la la sama temo) Ca tendenco do= semblas tre forta e naturala en Ido. Segun ol on povus sen irga problemo = uzar 'muzikalo' por la bezonata senco, eventuale precizigante ol per adjun= tita adjektivo. Exemple: Usona muzikalo, Angla muzikalo, e.c. Kun salu= ti kordial, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1602 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96735 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2005 11:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2005 11:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2005 11:42:49 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 11:40:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2005 11:40:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:40:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 202 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: *epopeo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Arto Moisio, > Do l' asterisko ne esas uzebla nia-maniere en la Wiki= pedio. > Me uzabis ulaloke vice asterisko la questiono-signo en parentezi.= Danko pro vua expliko. Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1603 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14351 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2005 10:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2005 10:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 10:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.64.87 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 10:20:30 -0000 To: , , Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:20:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c523c8$75f4b550$5740fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20050305182025.51361.qmail@web26602.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara sioro PARTAKA Pri Dyer-vortari nun me ja savas quale agar. <<<<<<<<<= < Ka ni darfas pensar, ke nia savoza pioniri (Pesch, Dyer e cetera samtempa= ni) tante grave eroris per inkluzir la koncepti astronomial "acenso" e "dek= lino" che l' verbi komuna, nome "acensar" e "deklinar"? >>>>>>>>>> Do "mag= ister dixit". Pri "deklinar": Ek Dyer-dicionario: deklin-ar: (tr., gram.= ) to decline, inflect; (intr., phys.) to deviate from the true north, as ma= gnetic needle; (astron.) to remove from the equator, as a heavenly body. = =97 DEFIS. Ek Pesch-dicionario: Deklinar. (trans.) I- Enuncar la serio de = la dezinenci (di kazi, di genri, di nombri) tra qua pasas nomo, pronomo, ad= jektivo qualifikala en ula lingui. II- (pri astro) Distar de la equatoro di= la sfero cielala, supere o sube. III- (pri la magnet-angulo) Deviacar de l= a meridiano ter-globala, per ula angulo. =96 DEFIS. Kad I relatas II ? Si= ngla plurasenca vorto en linguo internaciona esas fakte eroro. <<<<<<<<<<= Me es certa, ke ol (A.K.) publikigesos adminime til numero 18, to es, tri = plusa numeri. E pose, me kurajigas tu durigar ta interesiva revueto... >>>>= >>>>>> Forsan. Forsan anke en Ido. Nulon me intencis chanjar, simple me i= ntencis uzar maxim apta vorti en la artikleti da me. Irgu esas plu apta lin= guisto kam me. Salutin sendas Fernando Tej=F3n. -----Mensaje original= ----- De: Partaka [mailto:qualevistandas@yahoo.es] Enviado el: s=E1bado, 0= 5 de marzo de 2005 19:20 Para: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com; linguolist= o@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] astronomiala vort= i Maxim amikal saluto, Fernando! Tu skribis: > Kara Partaka, kara sami= deani > > > > Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus > suficar p= or nia linguo > internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula > monati ant= e nun > importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da > Pesch ne esas la= maxim > bona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le =93Dyer=94 esas maxim apta > dicionarii p= or lernar > Ido? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por > pose lernar = Ido? Me > havas heme nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas > le maxim apt= a me > mustus kompror olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me > vua opiniono >= carelate, nam me supozas ke vu kompris la du > Dyer-vortari. Me komprus > = oli se vu dicas a me ke oli esas vere importanta por > plubonigar la > Ido-= savo. Me sincere ne savas, ka l' vortari da Dyer es maxim apta, tamen me = es certa, ke oli es utileg a me. Me posedas nek olci, nek olta da Pesch, do= me darfas rekomendar nulo tarelate, ma irgakaze me konsideras Dyer-vortari= kom maxim konsultinda, mem se, quale meakaze, on havas nur limitizita komp= reno pri l'Angla. > Pri =93deklino / deklinaciono=94 > > Malgre ke la = vorto =93deklino=94 semblas esar apta segun > la dicionario da > Pesch, mea= opinione la vorto =93deklinaciono=94 esas plu > apta kam =93deklino=94 > pr= o: > > 1e- Ol esas maxim internaciona vorto. (Hisp: > Declinaci=F3n, Port:= > Declina=E7=E3o, Germ: Deklination, Angl: Declination, > Fran: D=E9clinai= son, > Ital: Declinazione, Espe: Deklinacio) > 2e- On evitas ambigueso, e m= iskompreno. > > > > Pri =93ascensiono / acensiono / acenso=94 > > Semb= las a me maxim apta =93acensiono=94 pro: > > 1e- Ol esas maxim internacion= a vorto. (Hisp: > Ascensi=F3n recta, Port: > Ascen=E7=E3o reta, Germ: Rekta= szension, Angl: Right > ascention, Fran: > Ascension droite, Ital: Ascensio= ne retta, Espe: > Rekta ascencio) > > 2e- Ol tote ne relatas la Ido-verbo = =93acensar=94. Forsan me ne ja tote komprenabas quon on referas, kande (e= n Ido) on 'parlas' pri unsenceso... Ka ni darfas pensar, ke nia savoza pion= iri (Pesch, Dyer e cetera samtempani) tante grave eroris per inkluzir la ko= ncepti astronomial "acenso" e "deklino" che l' verbi komuna, nome "acensar"= e "deklinar"? Me supozas ke, mem kaze ke li savabus nulo pri astronomio, l= i tre multe sorgabus relate la linguo ipsa e, do, la principo di unsenceso.= De lo, me deduktas, ke l'astronomial "acenso" e "deklino" devas, ULMANIERE= , relatar la verbi "acensar" e "deklinar". Se ne, on ruptabus ya la regulo= pri vortal unsenceso. Altralatere, kara Fernando, notez ke, quankam ni po= sedas ya kelka substantivi finanta per "-ion.o" (opiniono, poziciono, edc.)= , maxim ofte' ni simple substantivigas la verbi komuna. Quon to signifikas?= To signifikas, ke ni nur eventuale bezonas adoptar Ido-verbo (o substant= ivo) finanta per "ion.ar" (ion.o). Altravorte: segun me, kande ni dicas, po= r exemplo, "acenso" o "deklino" ( e anke sama o diferanta formi finanta per= "-ado, ajo", edc.), ni fakte aceptabas ed adoptabas, niamaniere, vorti max= im internaciona, qui finas (o preske finas) per "-ion" che nia lingui. = > Mea savo astronomial esas mikra, simple amatora. > Evidente mea savo Idal= > ne suficas por savar la maxim apta vorto uzebla. Ma > me supozas ke Ido = > intencas, kom maxim apta linguo internaciona, evitar > la miskompreno e l= a > ambigueso ed adoptar omnakaze la maxim internaciona > vorto, do Ido-vor= to > devas esar tote komprenebla irgaloke, ne ambigua > vorto, e maxim > in= ternaciona, se posible. > > > > Pro ke opiniono de altra Idisti forsan = esos utila, > me anke sendos ca > mesajo aden la forumo =93linguolisto=94. = Tre poka Idisti > semblas prizar la > astronomio, nam tre poka personi lekt= as la > Ido-versiono di la revueto > =93Astronomiala kayereto=94 (olqua for= san ne plus > publikigesos), Me es certa, ke ol publikigesos adminime til= numero 18, to es, tri plusa numeri. E pose, me kurajigas tu durigar ta int= eresiva revueto... Tamen, se tu advere suspektas (o mem savas), ke ol veki= gas quaze nul intereso da ni, me ya komprenus tua motivi decidar ne plus p= ublikigar ol. Kurajo! > ma vu ed > altra samideani esas apta linguisti, d= o via opinioni > esas valoroza. Pardonez, Fernando!: me ya esas nul apta= linguisto! (ne mem modesta linguiston me esas!). Admaxime, me esperas esar= pasable apta 'opinanto/opinero'... > Amikala salutin sendas > > > = > Fernando Tej=F3n Danko e til baldege! P A R T A K A From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1604 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6583 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2005 10:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2005 10:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.170.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 10:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.64.87 with login) by smtp110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 10:52:13 -0000 To: , Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:52:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c523cc$e46d3530$5740fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara sioro Gon=E7alo NEVES Vua mesajo esas lektinda pro vua ecelanta Ido-s= tilo, certe me sentis vera plezuro dum olua lektado. Regretinde pokafoye to= n me sentas. Pluse la mesajo esas tre informiva ed utila por me. Do me ko= mpros la nekareebla Ido-Angla vortaro pro ke me intencas plubonigar mea Ido= -savo diope. Forsan me enretigos ta dicionario vice ta da Pesch. Eu lhe ag= rade=E7o sua mensagem. Obrigado. Kordiala salutin sendas a vu de frata lan= do Fernando Tej=F3n. -----Mensaje original----- De: Goncalo Neves [mail= to:goncalo_neves@hotmail.com] Enviado el: domingo, 06 de marzo de 2005 22:= 17 Para: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [linguo] Re: astronomiala vort= i Kara Fernando, Yen kelka komenti pri vua mesajo e vua questioni pri d= icionarii. Me respondos kom tradukisto e lexikografo ed esforcos esar ne n= ur honesta ma anke yusta, objektala e senpartisa. 1) Pri dicionarii gener= ale Omna dicionarii kontenas erori. Absolute omna. Omna senecepte. Mem la = maxim prestijoza dicionarii skribita dal maxim erudita experti (Larousse,= Oxford e.c.) kontenas erori. De to konsequas ke por evaluar dicionario ne= suficas dicar ke ol es eroroza. Oportas trovar altra kriterii evaluanta. = Exemple oportas savar: a) Ka la erori es sistematra o nur hazardala. b) K= a la erori konsequas de manko di atenco o revizo, o de manko di linguo-sav= o. c) Ka la erori koncernas la defini ipsa od importanta reguli gramatika= l. d) Ka la erori povus eventuale konfundigar neerudita o neexperta lekte= ro ed igar lu ipsa facar la sama o simila erori dum parolar o skribar la l= inguo, o kontraste, ka tala lektero facile remarkus ke koncernesas erori e= d esus kapabla klarigar li per konsultar la dicionario. e) Ka la defini (= malgre eventuala erori) es kompleta, klara e facile komprenebla. e.c., e.= c., e.c. 2) Pri la dicionario da Pesch La dicionario da Pesch es nia unik= a un-lingua Ido-dicionario. Do on ne povas komparar ol kun altra dicionar= ii (exemple kun la dicionarii da Dyer, qui es du-lingua). La skopo e trait= i di un-lingua dicionarii ne es la sama kam la skopo e traiti di du-lingua= dicionarii. On do ne povas komparar l'uni kun l'altri. Es do sensenca dic= ar ke la dicionario da Pesh es =ABla maxim bona=BB, o ke ol =ABne es la ma= xima bona=BB. Por dicar lo oportus disponar altra dicionarii kun qui on p= ovus komparar ol. Ne havante li, ni darfas nur dicar ke la dicionario da P= esch es mala o bona, segun nia evaluo, ma ni ne darfas facar komparo absol= uta (=ABla maxim bona=BB o =ABla maxim mala=BB). Pos la supera precizigo m= i nun regardez la problemo tra altra prismato: ka la dicionario da Pesch e= s mala o bona? Ante respondizar ta questiono oportas savar ka Pesch satisf= acis la premisi quin il ipsa formuligis. Pri qua premisi me parolas? La a= utoro ipsa detaligis li en la prefaco di sua verko (p. 2): =ABMea rolo, en= la produkto di ca verko, konsistis ye: 1. tradukar en Ido la defini Akade= miala (di qui la originalo esis en la Franca); 2. indikar, pri singla ek l= a verbi, ka lu esas transitiva o netransitiva, e, pri ca kazo, qua prepozi= ciono esas uzenda logikale; 3. donar la simboli kemiala; 4. donar, pri la a= nimali e la planti, lia nomo Latina; 5. mencionar la DEFIRS-grado di singla= radiko.=BB La autoro formuligis kin premisi. Kad il satisfacis li omna? = Sendubite. Il ya tradukis la defini Akademiala, indikis (ne) transitiveso, = donis simboli kemiala, donis nomi Latina di planti e bestii e montris la D= EFIRS-grado di singla radiko. Il plene satisfacis la premisi. Il atingis s= ua skopo. Segun ca kriterio on do devas judikar la dicionario da Pesch kom= bona. Tamen... Tamen on ofte reprochas a Pesch la sequanta peki: a) Ke l= a defini generale es nekompleta, neprofunda e sendetala. b) Ke ula defini e= s eroroza. c) Ke mankas derivuri. d) Ke mankas exemplo-frazi. e) Ke trovesa= s erori pri la DEFIRS-grado. f) Ke mankas kelka vorti. g) Ke trovesas erori= gramatikal e stilal. Nu, judikante honeste ed objektale on devas konfesar= ke on tote ne darfas blamar Pesch pro la unesma kin punti [de a) til e)].= Pro quo? Yen la motivo: a) Pesch nur tradukis del Franca la Akademiala d= efini. Se la defini ja esis nekompleta, neprofunda e sendetala en la origi= nalajo, Pesch tote ne kulpas pro to. On do blamez la akademiani qui skribi= s li. b) Sama respondo. On blamez la akademiani. c) Pesch nultempe dicis = ke ilua dicionario kontenos derivuri. d) Pesch nultempe dicis ke ilua dici= onario kontenos exemplo-frazi. e) Pesch simple prenis indiki pri la DEFIRS= -grado de altra verki (precipue del dicionario da Dyer). Il do kopiis la e= rori da altri (exemple `gepardo' ne es DFRS ma DFIRS). Pesch es do blameb= la nur pro la du lasta punti: f) En ilua dicionario mankas ya kelka vorti = (videz la koncernanta mesajo da Robert en ca listo). g) Trovesas ya erori= gramatikal e stilal, regretinde. Advere la stilo da Pesch es tro kompliki= ta e konfuza. Suficas lektar ilua prefaco por konstatar lo. Quankam la def= ini ne spricis ek la kapo di Pesch (ni ja vidis ke il tradukis li de Franc= a originalajo), ilua stilo preponderas en la texto final. Or en dicionario= oportas uzar tre simpla, mem limpida stilo, por ke la lektero ne nur ne h= avez dubiti pri lo lektata ma anke =96 se posibla =96 sentez kelka plezuro= dum lektar. > Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus suficar por n= ia linguo No, la dicionario da Pesch ne suficas por parlernar Ido, nam man= kas derivuri e precipue exemplo-frazi. Por parlernar Ido oportas disponar = anke (o mem nur) la dicionarii da Dyer, precipue ilua Ido-Angla- dicionari= o. 3) Pri la dicionarii da Dyer: La Ido-Angla-dicionario da Dyer es marve= loza verko, absolute nekareebla por omna grava [=3D nefrivola] Idisto. Yen= olua precipua bona traiti: a) Ol prizentas la precipua direta e mediata = derivuri di singla radiko (exemple: fundamentala, fundamentizar; funcionig= ar, funcionero, funcionerismo; e.c., e.c., e.c.) b) Ol prizentas kelka im= portanta kompozita vorti de multa radiki (ex. joyo-trublero, omno-tushero,= vento-flecho, e.c., e.c., e.c.). c) Ol prizentas multega exemplo-frazi. N= e nur multega, ma anke tre klara e skopo-konforme elektita. En multa kazi = li extraktesis de Progreso, e Dyer tre honeste indikas lia bibliografiala = refero. d) Quankam ca dicionario es du-lingua, Dyer ne limitizas su per do= nar Angla tradukuro di omna Ido-vorti. Li prizentas anke Idala defino di = multa vorti, precipue di vorti qui longe o detaloze diskutesis sur la pagi= ni di Progreso. Me devas konfesar ke ca defini es multe plu bela, klara, k= omprenebla ed utila kam la defini aparanta en la dicionario da Pesch. En p= asable multa kazi ca dicionario da Dyer funcionas do kom vera un-lingua Id= o-dicionario e klare supleas la verko da Pesch, kun granda avantaji por la= lektero. e) Ol kontenas sat detaloza expliki (en tre bona Ido!) pri la s= ignifiko-nuanci di vorti qui pro havar proxima senci povus konfundigar lek= teri min atencoza o facile misduktebla da idiotismi o neprecizaji di lia m= atrala lingui (exemple: facar/agar, reprochar/reprimandar, amansar/dresar;= klamar/kriar, koloro/kolorito, demandar/pregar; sorgar/suciar; quale/kom,= ol/lo, definar/determinar, e.c., e.c., e.c.). Omno supere dicita (e me n= e exhaustis la temo!) montras ke ca verko es absolute nekareebla. Se la nu= na Idisti konsultus ol plu ofte e plu diligente, ne pululus tanta erori en= nia revui ed en nia forumi elektronikal. Anke la altra dicionario da Dy= er ('English-Ido Dictionary') es tre bona, quankam ne tante utila o necesa= . Anke la dicionario da Beaufront e Couturat ('Dictionnaire Fran=E7ais-Ido= ') es tre bona. Regretinde me ne povas dicar la samo pri la Ido-Hispana-di= cionario da Escuder e Marcilla. Ma forsan to es temo plu apta por la Ido-H= ispana- forumo... > Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lerna= r Ido? No. Vu tote ne mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Ido. La = mencionita dicionario ('Ido-English Dictionary') kontenas tante multa fraz= i, defini ed expliki en Ido, ke on lernas multege per ofte konsultar ol, m= em se on savas nula vorto en la Angla. Me do forte rekomendas a vu =96 ed = ad omni qui lektos ca mesajo =96 la Ido-Angla- dicionario da Dyer. Kun kor= diala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1605 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25828 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2005 11:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2005 11:12:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp011.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.31) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 11:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.64.87 with login) by smtp011.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2005 11:11:39 -0000 To: , Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 12:11:40 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c523cf$9b7b03e0$5740fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200535212331.392358@SonyFX805> Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara sioro Robert C. Pri "apta" vortari voluntez lektar mesajo carelate da= sioro Gon=E7alo Neves. Se vu sendas listo de mankanta vorti en la vortaro= Ido-Hispana a la Ido-Societo Hispana ( publika adreso: idosocietohispana@y= ahoogroups.com )lore la ISH-ani tradukos ta vorti a la Hispana e montros la= tradukuro publike en la forumi "IdoEspanyol" e "LinguoListo" por ke omni d= arfez opinionar. Pos aceptar la tradukuri me ipsa insertos la vorti ed olia= Hispana tradukuri en la interretala, do publika, vortaro Ido-Hispana. Ka v= u konsentas ? Salutin sendas Fernando Tej=F3n. Plebeya Idisto. -----Mens= aje original----- De: Robert [mailto:trober@waitrose.com] Enviado el: s=E1= bado, 05 de marzo de 2005 22:24 Para: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; IdoCatal= aOccitan@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [linguo] astronomiala vorti Kara Fer= nando, Vu esas certe justa, ke ni bezonas bona vortari. Ka la vortolibro I= do-Hispana ne suficas por vu maxim ofte, malgre olua neperfekteso? Certe es= as vorti en Pesch qui ne esas en ol, ed inverse. Regretinde, ne esas simpl= a afero krear bona vortolibro. Granda esas la laboro bezonata, e partikular= e por dicionario kun defini en la linguo. Semblas ke Marcel Pesch facis lua= dicionario dum 30 yari (1934-1964 - videz la prefaco). Lu omisis ula vorti= (asertar, atitudo, du, elizionar, emo, municipo, moruso, e.c.), ed anke fa= cis erori. Tamen, il facis granda laboro, e sen la avantajo di *komputoro. = Interlingua ankore ne havas bona dicionario kun defini en la linguo ipsa. = On dicas ke uli esforcis facar mikra dicionario kun cirkume 2000 vorti, ma = ke li ankore ne sucesis pri to! Me laboradas por kompilar kompleta listo d= i omna Ido-vorti, ma la tasko ja okupis multa centi de hori. Segun mea kon= ti, esas cirkume 9370 vorti oficala en Pesch (9550 entote), e 9660 vorti (o= mni oficala) en vortaro Ido-Hispana, ma Pesch omisis preske omna propra nom= i, inkluzante nomi di landi, populi e lingui. Semblas ke cirkume 450 vorti = esus bezonata por facar la vortaro Ido-Hispana relative kompleta pri radiki= . Tamen, amba libri omisas preske omna derivuri. Maxim ofte la senco di de= rivuro en Ido esas evidenta de la radiki ed afixi en ol. Me komencis facar = listo di derivuri di qui la senco ne esas evidenta tale. Exemple la adjekti= vo "generala", formale derivita de "genero" - praktike ol esas aparte lerne= nda. Tala vorti esas inkluzinda en omna vortaro. Se on volas ke existez pl= u kompleta vortaro Ido-Hispana, me povas sendar listi di vorti mankanta se = ulu qua savas adminime la Hispana povas insertar la Hispana tradukuro, e ta= le ni kreos plu kompleta listo. Voluntez trovar sube tala vorti qui komenca= s per litero A o B, kun espero ke uli volos kontributar. Kordiale, Robert= . __________________________ Fernando Tej=F3n skribis (parte): Kara Parta= ka, kara samideani Supozeble dicionario Ido-Ido (da Pesch) devus suficar p= or nia linguo internaciona vice uzar altra vortari... ma ula monati ante nu= n importanta Idisto dicis a me ke la dicionario da Pesch ne esas la maxim b= ona (!?!?) Ultre, ka le =93Dyer=94 esas maxim apta dicionarii por lernar Id= o? Ka unesme onu mustas parlernar la Angla por pose lernar Ido? Me havas he= me nula dicionario da Dyer, ma se oli esas le maxim apta me mustus kompror = olin evidente. Voluntez montrar a me vua opiniono carelate, nam me supozas = ke vu kompris la du Dyer-vortari. Me komprus oli se vu dicas a me ke oli es= as vere importanta por plubonigar la Ido-savo. ___________________________= __________________________________ Voluntez notar ke en ula kazi la sama r= adiko ya esas en la vortaro Ido-Hispana ma kun altra dezinenco. Do, ne omna= radiki hike mankas en ta vortaro. Exemple, hike esas "adyunta" ma la vorta= ro ya havas "adyunto". Me ne serchis omna tala kazi. Plu importanta esas in= kluzar "aberacar", nam la inkluzo di "aberaco" ne montras ke existas anke t= a verbo en Ido. A=3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Dital= iana; aberac.ar [ntr] [fiz.] A: to be subject to aberration [astr., opt.] = F: =EAtre aberrant [astron., phys.] G: abirren H: aborijen.a A: aboriginal= F: aborig=E8ne, autochtone H: I: abor=ECgeno adyunt.a A: adjunct G: beige= ordnet (im Amte) H: aes [muz.] A: A flat G: as (durch b erniedrigtes a) H:= ais [muz.] A: A sharp G: ais (durch # erh=F6htes a) H: akromi.o [anat.] = A: acromion, acromion process F: acromion G: Schulterh=F6he des Schulterbla= tts, Akromion H: albin.a [zool.] A: albino [adj.], albinic H: aldehid.o [= kem.] A: aldehyde F: aldehyde G: Aldehyd [chem.] H: I: aldeide alecit.a [b= iol.] A: alecithal F: al=E9cithe G: alezithal H: aleuron.o [kem. e.c.] A: = aleurone, aleuron F: aleurone G: Aleuron, Klebermehl H: I: aleurone alexan= drin.o [vers.] A: alexandrine (line, verse) H: I: alessandrino alkaloid.a = [kem.] A: alkaloid [adj.] H: amebocit.o [biol.] / celulo qua aspektas simi= la ad amebo / A: amoebocyte, [US] amebocyte F: amibocyte G: Am=F6bozyte H: = ameboid.a [biol.] A: amoeboid, [US] ameboid F: amibo=EFde G: am=F6boid H: = amfimixi.o [biol.] A: amphimixis F: amphimixie G: Amphimixis H: amitos.o = [biol.] A: amitosis F: amitose G: Amitose H: amnion.o / membrano interna e= k ti qui tegas feto / A: amnion F: amnione G: Amnion, Lamm-, Schafh=E4utche= n [anat.] H: I: amnio anabios.o [biol.] A: anabiosis F: anabiose G: Anabio= se H: anafaz.o [biol.] A: anaphase F: anaphase G: Anaphase H: analgezi.o = [medic.] A: analgesia H: anamnez.ar [tr] [medic.] A: to make an anamnesis,= make a medical case history (of) G: Anamnese, R=FCckerinnerung aus=FCben H= : ? ... anamnesis androdioik.a [bot.] A: androdioecious F: androdio=EFque = G: androdi=F6zisch H: andromonoik.a [bot.] A: andromonoecious F: andromono= =EFque G: andromon=F6zisch H: aneroid.a [fiz.] A: aneroid F: an=E9roide G:= mit luftleerer, d=FCnnwandiger Metallkapsel H: ? aneroide [bar=F3metro] I:= aneroide angiosperm.o [bot.] A: angiosperm F: angiosperme G: [-i] Angiosp= ermen, Bedeckt-, H=FCllsamer H: L: Angiospermae anizotrop.a [biol.] A: ani= sotropic F: anisotrope G: anisotrop H: anteridi.o [bot.] A: antheridium F:= anth=E9ridie G: Antheridium H: anterozoid.o [bot.] A: antherozoid, anther= ozooid F: anth=E9rozo=EFde G: Antherozoid H: antez.o [bot.] A: anthesis F:= anth=E8se G: Anthese H: antikatalaz.o [biol.] A: anticatalase F: anticata= lase G: Antikatalase H: antiklin.a [geol.] A: anticlinal F: anticline G: a= ntiklinisch H: antikrist.o [rel.] A: Antichrist F: Ant=E9christ G: Antichr= ist, Widerchrist H: antimilitarismo A: antimilitarism F: antimilitarisme G= : Antimilitarismus H: antimilitaristo A: antimilitarist F: antimilitariste= G: Antimilitarist H: apikal.a [biol.] A: apical F: apical G: Scheitel- H:= apogam.a [biol.] A: apogamic, apogamous F: apogame G: apogam H: apospori= .o [bot.] A: apospory F: aposporie G: Aposporie H: apostat.o [rel.] A: apo= state [n.] G: Abtr=FCnniger, Apostat H: aposteriori.e A: a posteriori [adv= .] F: a posteriori [adv.] G: a posteriori, aus Erfahrungsgr=FCnden H: apri= ori.e A: a priori [adv.] F: a priori [adv.] G: a priori, von vornherein, au= s Vernunftgr=FCnden H: arkegoni.o [bot.] A: archegon F: arch=E9gone G: Arc= hegonium H: arkespor.o [bot.] A: archesporium F: archespore G: Archespore = H: arkiplasm.o [biol.] A: archiplasm F: archiplasme G: Archiplasma H: ark= oplasm.o [biol.] A: archoplasm F: archoplasme G: Archoplasma H: arteriit.o= [morbo] A: arteritis F: art=E8rite G: Arteriitis, Arterienentz=FCndung H: = artrodi.o [anat.] A: arthrodia F: arthrodie G: Arthrodie, Kugelgelenk H: = astroid.o [matem.] A: astroid F: astro=EFde G: Astroide [Kurve] H: astrosf= er.o [biol.] A: astrosphere F: astrosph=E8re G: Astrosph=E4re H: asuncion.= o [rel.] A: Assumption (of the Virgin Mary) F: l'Assomption G: Himmelfahrt = Mari=E4, Assumption H: atip.a [biol.] A: atypic, atypical F: atypique G: a= typisch H: autoblast.o [bot.] A: autoblast F: autoblaste G: Autoblast H: = autogam.a [biol.] A: autogamous F: autogame G: autogam H: autograf.a A: au= tographic, written with one's own hand F: autographe H: I: autografo autol= iz.o [biol.] A: autolysis F: autolyse G: Autolyse [biol.] H: automat.o [ap= arato] A: automaton F: automate H: I: automa automorfism.o [biol.] A: auto= morphism F: automorphisme G: Automorphismus H: automorfos.o [biol.] A: aut= omorphosis F: automorphose G: Automorphose H: autospor.o [bot.] A: autospo= re F: autospore G: Autospore H: autotomi.o [zool.] A: autotomy F: autotomi= e G: Autotomie H: azigospor.o [biol.] A: azygospore F: azygospore G: Azygo= spore H: bes [muz.] A: B flat G: B (durch b erniedrigtes H [=3D B in Ido])= H: bis A: B sharp [music]; for a second time, bis; [interj.] encore, agai= n G: His (durch # erh=F6ntes H [=3DB in Ido]) H: bistr.a [koloro] A: bistr= e, [US] bister F: bistre [adj.] H: blastem.o [biol.] A: blastema F: blast= =E8me G: Blastem [biol.] H: Yahoo! Groups Links ___________= ___________________________________=20 Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: =A1250 MB GRATIS!=20 Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad=20 http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1606 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57447 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 02:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2005 02:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2005 02:02:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 99565 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2005 02:02:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20050309020235.99563.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.149] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 03:02:34 CET Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 03:02:34 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: *cyana/ciana... ed aciano X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto ad omnu! Recentege, me deskovris la vorto "acian-o" che Dyer-dicionario... Yen mea questiono, specale por ti qui parkomprenas l'Angla linguo: Kad existas ula proxima o fora relato inter ta formo e nia kara paro, nome *cyana/ciana? Segun semblo, "aciano" asociesas ad ulo botanikal, ma forsan existas inter-relato pro olua koloro, kaze ke per ta vorto' on nomizas floro od irgo simila. Predanko por via respondo! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1607 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94798 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 02:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2005 02:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2005 02:07:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 39286 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2005 02:00:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20050309020031.39284.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.149] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 03:00:30 CET Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 03:00:30 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: *cyana/ciana... ed aciano X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto ad omnu! Recentege, me deskovris la vorto "acian-o" che Dyer-dicionario... Yen mea questiono, specale por ti qui parkomprenas l'Angla linguo: Kad existas ula proxima o fora relato inter ta formo e nia kara paro, nome *cyana/ciana? Segun semblo, "aciano" asociesas ad ulo botanikal, ma forsan existas inter-relato pro olua koloro, kaze ke per ta vorto' on nomizas floro od irgo simila. Predanko por via respondo! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1608 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46144 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 18:59:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2005 18:59:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp06.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.146) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2005 18:59:53 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp6.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9933C26C0F; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:59:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.6.3]); Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:59:51 +0100 Message-ID: <422F47A3.2000900@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:59:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 166 (aprilo - junio 1952) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Ca-foye me enretigis: Progreso 166 (aprilo - junio 1952) - 641 kB Kontenajo: - Leonardo da Vinci - Jacob, Elizabeth M. - Lo supernatura (II) - Escuder Ramon, Manuel (Traduko) - Imprimo - Panell, Walter (Traduko) - Jules Houillon; granda Ido-skriptero - Egloff, Fr. Raphael - Libro en mil-e-cent lingui - Anderegg-Chevalley, E. - Pri nacionala linguo kom linguo helpanta - Marget, R. - Linguala Suplemento; numero 28 - Akademio di Ido - Internaciona vortaro dil turismo - Raiteri, L. (Traduko) - Decidi oficala di Akademio di Ido - Akademio di Ido - Ofical informi - ULI - IDO-kroniko - Gou�x, Victor Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.3 - Release Date: 7-3-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1609 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11839 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 21:18:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2005 21:18:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2005 21:18:14 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.178.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.178] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D98Yv-000JyA-75 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:17:49 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:19:37 GMT Message-ID: <200539211937.872032@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <000f01c523cc$e46d3530$5740fed5@alcali> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Fernando, Me konsentas kun Gon=E7alo pri lua komenti inteligenta pri = la vortolibri da Pesch e Dyer. La vortolibro Ido-Angla da Dyer esas tre ut= ila. Regretinde, la stoko esas exhaustita o preske exhaustita. Me laboras = pri facar vortaro por remplasar ol, adminime elektonikale, ne tote sama, ne= tante detaloza, ma simila, kelke plu moderna/kompleta pri la Idala vorti, = e plu moderna pri ula Angla vorti. Me ja facis multega laboro pri ol. Mea = listo nun kontenas plu kam 11 000 Idala vorti. Kande Dyer citas defino, me = kopias ol. La laboro duras. Diversa problemi solvesas segun dum ke me ganas= experienco. La listo povas helpar anke kreo di vortolibri por altra lingu= i. Kordiale, Robert. _____________ Krayono skribis: =A0Kara sioro Gon= =E7alo NEVES =A0Vua mesajo esas lektinda pro vua ecelanta Ido-stilo, certe= me sentis =A0vera plezuro dum olua lektado. Regretinde pokafoye ton me sen= tas. =A0Pluse la mesajo esas tre informiva ed utila por me. Do me kompros = la =A0nekareebla Ido-Angla vortaro pro ke me intencas plubonigar mea Ido- = =A0savo diope. Forsan me enretigos ta dicionario vice ta da Pesch. =A0Eu l= he agrade=E7o sua mensagem. Obrigado. =A0Kordiala salutin sendas a vu de f= rata lando =A0Fernando Tej=F3n. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1610 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29866 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 21:38:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2005 21:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2005 21:38:04 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.91.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.91] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1D98sU-0001xd-Tk; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:38:03 +0000 To: , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:40:02 GMT Message-ID: <20053921402.354956@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: RE: [linguo] astronomiala vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Fernando, Granda danko. Yes, certe me felice aceptas vua bona ofro. = Me itere donas la unesma listo sube. Kordiale, Robert. __________ Kray= ono skribis: =A0Kara sioro Robert C. =A0Pri "apta" vortari voluntez lekta= r mesajo carelate da sioro Gon=E7alo =A0Neves. =A0Se vu sendas listo de ma= nkanta vorti en la vortaro Ido-Hispana a la =A0Ido-Societo Hispana ( publik= a adreso: =A0idosocietohispana@yahoogroups.com )lore la ISH-ani tradukos ta= vorti =A0a la Hispana e montros la tradukuro publike en la forumi =A0"IdoE= spanyol" e "LinguoListo" por ke omni darfez opinionar. Pos =A0aceptar la tr= adukuri me ipsa insertos la vorti ed olia Hispana =A0tradukuri en la interr= etala, do publika, vortaro Ido-Hispana. Ka vu =A0konsentas ? =A0Salutin se= ndas =A0Fernando Tej=F3n. _______________________________________________= ______________ Voluntez notar ke en ula kazi la sama radiko ya esas en la= vortaro Ido-Hispana ma kun altra dezinenco. Do, ne omna radiki hike mankas= en ta vortaro. Exemple, hike esas "adyunta" ma la vortaro ya havas "adyunt= o". Me ne serchis omna tala kazi. Plu importanta esas inkluzar "aberacar", = nam la inkluzo di "aberaco" ne montras ke existas anke ta verbo en Ido. A= =3Dangla; F=3Dfranca; G=3Dgermana; H=3Dhispana; I=3Ditaliana; aberac.ar [n= tr] [fiz.] A: to be subject to aberration [astr., opt.] F: =EAtre aberrant = [astron., phys.] G: abirren H: aborijen.a A: aboriginal F: aborig=E8ne, au= tochtone H: I: abor=ECgeno adyunt.a A: adjunct G: beigeordnet (im Amte) H:= aes [muz.] A: A flat G: as (durch b erniedrigtes a) H: ais [muz.] A: A s= harp G: ais (durch # erh=F6htes a) H: akromi.o [anat.] A: acromion, acromi= on process F: acromion G: Schulterh=F6he des Schulterblatts, Akromion H: a= lbin.a [zool.] A: albino [adj.], albinic H: aldehid.o [kem.] A: aldehyde F= : aldehyde G: Aldehyd [chem.] H: I: aldeide alecit.a [biol.] A: alecithal = F: al=E9cithe G: alezithal H: aleuron.o [kem. e.c.] A: aleurone, aleuron F= : aleurone G: Aleuron, Klebermehl H: I: aleurone alexandrin.o [vers.] A: a= lexandrine (line, verse) H: I: alessandrino alkaloid.a [kem.] A: alkaloid = [adj.] H: amebocit.o [biol.] / celulo qua aspektas simila ad amebo / A: am= oebocyte, [US] amebocyte F: amibocyte G: Am=F6bozyte H: ameboid.a [biol.] = A: amoeboid, [US] ameboid F: amibo=EFde G: am=F6boid H: amfimixi.o [biol.]= A: amphimixis F: amphimixie G: Amphimixis H: amitos.o [biol.] A: amitosis= F: amitose G: Amitose H: amnion.o / membrano interna ek ti qui tegas feto= / A: amnion F: amnione G: Amnion, Lamm-, Schafh=E4utchen [anat.] H: I: amn= io anabios.o [biol.] A: anabiosis F: anabiose G: Anabiose H: anafaz.o [bi= ol.] A: anaphase F: anaphase G: Anaphase H: analgezi.o [medic.] A: analges= ia H: anamnez.ar [tr] [medic.] A: to make an anamnesis, make a medical cas= e history (of) G: Anamnese, R=FCckerinnerung aus=FCben H: ? ... anamnesis = androdioik.a [bot.] A: androdioecious F: androdio=EFque G: androdi=F6zisch = H: andromonoik.a [bot.] A: andromonoecious F: andromono=EFque G: andromon= =F6zisch H: aneroid.a [fiz.] A: aneroid F: an=E9roide G: mit luftleerer, d= =FCnnwandiger Metallkapsel H: ? aneroide [bar=F3metro] I: aneroide angiosp= erm.o [bot.] A: angiosperm F: angiosperme G: [-i] Angiospermen, Bedeckt-, H= =FCllsamer H: L: Angiospermae anizotrop.a [biol.] A: anisotropic F: anisot= rope G: anisotrop H: anteridi.o [bot.] A: antheridium F: anth=E9ridie G: A= ntheridium H: anterozoid.o [bot.] A: antherozoid, antherozooid F: anth=E9r= ozo=EFde G: Antherozoid H: antez.o [bot.] A: anthesis F: anth=E8se G: Anth= ese H: antikatalaz.o [biol.] A: anticatalase F: anticatalase G: Antikatala= se H: antiklin.a [geol.] A: anticlinal F: anticline G: antiklinisch H: an= tikrist.o [rel.] A: Antichrist F: Ant=E9christ G: Antichrist, Widerchrist H= : antimilitarismo A: antimilitarism F: antimilitarisme G: Antimilitarismus= H: antimilitaristo A: antimilitarist F: antimilitariste G: Antimilitarist= H: apikal.a [biol.] A: apical F: apical G: Scheitel- H: apogam.a [biol.]= A: apogamic, apogamous F: apogame G: apogam H: apospori.o [bot.] A: aposp= ory F: aposporie G: Aposporie H: apostat.o [rel.] A: apostate [n.] G: Abtr= =FCnniger, Apostat H: aposteriori.e A: a posteriori [adv.] F: a posteriori= [adv.] G: a posteriori, aus Erfahrungsgr=FCnden H: apriori.e A: a priori = [adv.] F: a priori [adv.] G: a priori, von vornherein, aus Vernunftgr=FCnde= n H: arkegoni.o [bot.] A: archegon F: arch=E9gone G: Archegonium H: arkes= por.o [bot.] A: archesporium F: archespore G: Archespore H: arkiplasm.o [b= iol.] A: archiplasm F: archiplasme G: Archiplasma H: arkoplasm.o [biol.] A= : archoplasm F: archoplasme G: Archoplasma H: arteriit.o [morbo] A: arteri= tis F: art=E8rite G: Arteriitis, Arterienentz=FCndung H: artrodi.o [anat.]= A: arthrodia F: arthrodie G: Arthrodie, Kugelgelenk H: astroid.o [matem.]= A: astroid F: astro=EFde G: Astroide [Kurve] H: astrosfer.o [biol.] A: as= trosphere F: astrosph=E8re G: Astrosph=E4re H: asuncion.o [rel.] A: Assump= tion (of the Virgin Mary) F: l'Assomption G: Himmelfahrt Mari=E4, Assumptio= n H: atip.a [biol.] A: atypic, atypical F: atypique G: atypisch H: autobl= ast.o [bot.] A: autoblast F: autoblaste G: Autoblast H: autogam.a [biol.] = A: autogamous F: autogame G: autogam H: autograf.a A: autographic, written= with one's own hand F: autographe H: I: autografo autoliz.o [biol.] A: au= tolysis F: autolyse G: Autolyse [biol.] H: automat.o [aparato] A: automato= n F: automate H: I: automa automorfism.o [biol.] A: automorphism F: automo= rphisme G: Automorphismus H: automorfos.o [biol.] A: automorphosis F: auto= morphose G: Automorphose H: autospor.o [bot.] A: autospore F: autospore G:= Autospore H: autotomi.o [zool.] A: autotomy F: autotomie G: Autotomie H: = azigospor.o [biol.] A: azygospore F: azygospore G: Azygospore H: bes [muz= .] A: B flat G: B (durch b erniedrigtes H [=3D B in Ido]) H: bis A: B shar= p [music]; for a second time, bis; [interj.] encore, again G: His (durch # = erh=F6ntes H [=3DB in Ido]) H: bistr.a [koloro] A: bistre, [US] bister F: = bistre [adj.] H: blastem.o [biol.] A: blastema F: blast=E8me G: Blastem [b= iol.] H: {FINO} From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1611 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2959 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 23:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2005 23:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.119) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2005 23:02:40 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050309230239.BSBV5260.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:02:39 +1300 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050309230239.ZNKW22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:02:39 +1300 To: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:02:39 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050309230239.ZNKW22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] *cyana/ciana... ed aciano X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Partako e samideani , En angla, la vorto =93buebottle=94 havas adminim= e tri senci: (1) Planto, =93Centaurea cyanus=94. Dyer donas =93aciano=94 p= or ta planto. (En Esperanto =93cejano=94). Anke en angla ta planto nomesas= =93cornflower=94. (2) Animalo: Tipo di meduzo, =93Physalia=94, kun nociva = piko. (Esperanto: cianea). (3) Animalo: Tipo di musho kun blua korpo. (Esp= eranto =93viandmusho=94). La =93cian=94 parto di =93aciano=94 es de la grek= a =93kyan=94 =3D blua. Desfortunoze, ni havas koloro (blua-verda) en lumteo= rio di fiziko ed anke la kemiala grupo -CN o cianido. Certena kompozaji di = =96CN havas blua koloro. Forsan altra samideani donos plusa informo. Amikal= e, Richard S. > > From: Partaka > Date: 2005/= 03/09 Wed PM 03:00:30 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCata= laOccitan@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] *cyana/ciana... ed aciano > = > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1612 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44446 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2005 09:35:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2005 09:35:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 09:35:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2005 09:34:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.99] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2005 09:34:30 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 09:34:08 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <422F47A3.2000900@bijtenhoorn.nl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 399 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Progreso dijitala 166 (aprilo - junio 1952) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Ronald, Bonega laboro! Quankam me havas en mea libraro omna yarali = di Progreso, vua laboro posibligas elektronikala explori pri vorti, expres= uri, edc. Nur komenteto. Kande vu skribis super singla numero =ABCa dokume= nto esas enretigAta da Ronald Bijtenhoorn=BB, forsan vu volis dicar =ABCa = dokumento esas enretigIta=BB, nam olua enretigo ja finis. Kun kordiala sa= luti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1613 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82153 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2005 10:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2005 10:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.227) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 10:06:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.64.154 with login) by smtp107.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 10:05:53 -0000 To: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:05:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c52558$c26cd7f0$9a40fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: Progreso dijitala 166 / Ca -> Ta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Ek "Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza..." da L. de Beaufront: ( http://es.geociti= es.com/krayono/kgd.pdf ) <<<<<<<<<< Demonstrativ adjektivi-pronomi. 34. =97= La demonstrativ adjektivi (sequata da substantivo) havas a kom dezinenco e= d esas nevariebla, quale la cetera adjektivi : ca od ica por l'objekti, di = qui on volas indikar explicite la proximeso; ta od ita por la for a objekti= , od ordinare. Ex. : Me amas ica puerino, ma me odias ita puerulo. Quale en= ta exemplo, on opozas l'adjektivo ca al adjektivo ta, kande parolesas pri = du enti o kozi, de qui un esas proxima e l'altra esas for a. Ma, en la prak= tiko, on indikas ordinare omna enti od objekti per ta, ita, kande on ne vol= as tote partikulare indikar la proximeso. On uzas prefere la formo plu kurt= a, kande l'eufonio permisas. >>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<< (Verbi) 44. =97 On povas= obtenar por la voco pasiva sintezal (exakte : kunjuntal) formi plu kurta, = kunjuntante, por abreviar, la verbal radiko e la verbo esar : amesar =3D (a= m(at)esar) esar amata. amesir =3D (am(at)esir) esir amata. amesor =3D (am(a= t)esor) esor amata. me amesas =3D (am(at)esas) me esas amata. me amesis =3D= (am(at)esis) me esis amata. me amesos =3D (am(at)esos) me esos amata. me a= mesus =3D (am(at)esus) me esus amata. amesez =3D (am(at)esez) esez amata (1= 2). >>>>>>>>>> Ca dokumento esas enretigAta da Ronald Bijtenhoorn -> Ta do= kumento enretigesis da Ronald Bijtenhoorn. Kustumale on misuzas "ca/ica" v= ice uzar korekte "ta/ita", anke me ipsa. Salutin sendas a vi Fernando Tej= =F3n. -----Mensaje original----- De: Goncalo Neves [mailto:goncalo_neves= @hotmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 10 de marzo de 2005 10:34 Para: linguoli= sto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [linguo] Re: Progreso dijitala 166 (aprilo - ju= nio 1952) Kara Ronald, Bonega laboro! Quankam me havas en mea libraro = omna yarali di Progreso, vua laboro posibligas elektronikala explori pri v= orti, expresuri, edc. Nur komenteto. Kande vu skribis super singla numero = =ABCa dokumento esas enretigAta da Ronald Bijtenhoorn=BB, forsan vu volis = dicar =ABCa dokumento esas enretigIta=BB, nam olua enretigo ja finis. Kun= kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1614 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16543 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2005 11:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2005 11:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 11:59:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2005 11:59:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2005 11:59:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:59:07 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c52558$c26cd7f0$9a40fed5@alcali> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1614 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Progreso dijitala 166 / Ca -> Ta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Fernando, Regretinde vua citajo de KGD ne multe helpas en ca kazo, n= am la verbi 'amar' ed 'enretigar' havas diferanta karakterizi. En la inst= anto kande on apertas la pagino da Ronald (quale eventis a me) on recevas = vidala impreso pri pagino qua esas enretigita, i.e. pri pagino di qua la = enretigo ja finis en la instanto kande on apertas ol. La impreso es prezen= ta (nam ol eventas en la sama instanto kam la aperto dil pagino) ma la enr= etigo es pasinta (nam ol eventis ante la aperto). Do on havas quaza koindi= co di du eventi en la sama instanto. L'una es prezenta (la konstato, qua = ya eventas dum la aperto) e l'altra es pasinta (la enretigo). Pro to on di= cas ke la pagino esas (prezenta) enretigita (pasinta) da Ronald. Evidente = on darfas dicar =ABla pagino enretigesis=BB. To es ne nur plu kurta e plu = oportuna, ma anke plu facila. > Ca dokumento esas enretigAta da Ronald Bi= jtenhoorn -> > Ta dokumento enretigesis da Ronald Bijtenhoorn. > Kustumale = on misuzas "ca/ica" vice uzar korekte "ta/ita", anke me ipsa. La praktiko= da AGHIR montras sendubite ke la dicerno inter 'ca' e 'ta' ne obedias la = koncernanta komento en KGD. Tal komento kalquas nur la Franca kustumo e do= es evitinda en Ido. Evidente kande me parolas pri AGHIR me devus adjuntar= la exempli di multega altra lingui qui omnadie ed omnainstante facas klar= a dicerno inter 'ca' e 'ta'. Kande on apertas la pagino da Ronald, ol quik= divenas proxima, ne nur fizike ma anke mente. Ol es quik acesebla e mem = tushebla. Ol es quaze "hike". Pro to AGHIR dicas 'ca pagino' en tala kazi = Kun kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1615 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93714 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2005 12:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2005 12:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp109.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.170.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 12:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.64.154 with login) by smtp109.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 12:53:40 -0000 To: Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 13:53:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c52570$32f59f90$9a40fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: Progreso dijitala 166 / Ca -> Ta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara sioro Gon=E7alo NEVES, kara samideani La ret-pagino enretigesIs (fors= an plura dii ante nun) da Ronald. Ne importas se me apertas ta ret-pagino o= no, irgakaze la ret-pagino enretigesIs da Ronald. Kande vu apertas olu, ta= retpagino apertesAs da vu. Altrakaze Ido ne esas landala linguo regulozig= ita, esas sendependa linguo, do supozeble me devus obediar la Ido-gramatiko= por bone uzar Ido vice obediar la gramatiko di altra lingui. En la Hispana= on uzas este/ese/aquel (tri diferanta nuanci segun la proximeso a parolant= o) vice ca/ta en Ido (nur du diferanta nuanci), e to ne desfaciligas mea ko= mpreno de Ido. En KGD klare explikesas la korekta uzo de ca/ta. Forsan lo k= alkas Franca kustumo, to ne jenas me. Se oportas chanji en KGD lore on devu= s oficaligar oli e chanjar KGD. Ne oportas montrar proximeso di ret-pagino= , ja ke omna ret-pagini videblesas de vua komputilo-skreno, omni de la sama= disto. Evidente takaze montrar proximeso esas sensenca. Salutin sendas F= ernando Tej=F3n -----Mensaje original----- De: Goncalo Neves [mailto:g= oncalo_neves@hotmail.com] Enviado el: jueves, 10 de marzo de 2005 12:59 Pa= ra: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [linguo] Re: Progreso dijitala 166 = / Ca -> Ta Kara Fernando, Regretinde vua citajo de KGD ne multe helpas = en ca kazo, nam la verbi 'amar' ed 'enretigar' havas diferanta karakterizi= . En la instanto kande on apertas la pagino da Ronald (quale eventis a me= ) on recevas vidala impreso pri pagino qua esas enretigita, i.e. pri pagi= no di qua la enretigo ja finis en la instanto kande on apertas ol. La impr= eso es prezenta (nam ol eventas en la sama instanto kam la aperto dil pagi= no) ma la enretigo es pasinta (nam ol eventis ante la aperto). Do on havas= quaza koindico di du eventi en la sama instanto. L'una es prezenta (la k= onstato, qua ya eventas dum la aperto) e l'altra es pasinta (la enretigo).= Pro to on dicas ke la pagino esas (prezenta) enretigita (pasinta) da Rona= ld. Evidente on darfas dicar =ABla pagino enretigesis=BB. To es ne nur plu= kurta e plu oportuna, ma anke plu facila. > Ca dokumento esas enretigAta= da Ronald Bijtenhoorn -> > Ta dokumento enretigesis da Ronald Bijtenhoorn.= > Kustumale on misuzas "ca/ica" vice uzar korekte "ta/ita", anke me ipsa.= La praktiko da AGHIR montras sendubite ke la dicerno inter 'ca' e 'ta' n= e obedias la koncernanta komento en KGD. Tal komento kalquas nur la Franca= kustumo e do es evitinda en Ido. Evidente kande me parolas pri AGHIR me d= evus adjuntar la exempli di multega altra lingui qui omnadie ed omnainstan= te facas klara dicerno inter 'ca' e 'ta'. Kande on apertas la pagino da Ro= nald, ol quik divenas proxima, ne nur fizike ma anke mente. Ol es quik ace= sebla e mem tushebla. Ol es quaze "hike". Pro to AGHIR dicas 'ca pagino' e= n tala kazi Kun kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves Yahoo! Groups = Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1616 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92760 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2005 17:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2005 17:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 17:24:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2005 17:24:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2005 17:24:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:23:35 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1272 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Kun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, En Idolisto, me questionis, inter altra dubiti, quale dic= ar en Ido l'expresuro Angla "he was sitting with his back to them". Gon= =E7alo Neves respondis: > Il sidis kun sua dorso turnita a(d) (i)li. Segu= n me komprenas, la prepoziciono "kun" esas uzenda kande onu indikas "akomp= anata da". Olua korespondanto en la lingui naturala (G: mit, A: with, F: a= vec, I e H: con), edc., havas signifiki plu ampla, pri qui la KGD avertas,= por evitar trouzo di ta prepoziciono en Ido. Tamen, kelkafoye divenas tre= desfacila selektar la prepoziciono maxim apta por signifiki en qui la pre= poziciono uzata en la lingui naturala esas la "tradukuro" di "kun". E la f= razo suba esas bon exemplo di to. Altra kazo "desfacila" esas frazi quala:= -the man with the brown hat -the chair with a broken leg, edc. En ta kaz= i "with" semblas signifikar "karakterizita da". Por to ni ya havas la sufi= xo -ier-, ma quale adjuntar ta sufixo ne a vorto ma a frazo plurvorta qual= e en ta exempli , . E to povas divenar mem pl= u komplexa, quale en: -the car with the door that was broken in the accide= nt. Mea questiono esas: quale on povas expresar ta idei en qui "kun" ne s= ignifikas exakte "akompanata da". Vin predankas amikale Eduardo A. RODI. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1617 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94923 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2005 18:52:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2005 18:52:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2005 18:52:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 69002 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2005 18:52:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20050310185217.69000.qmail@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.89] by web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:52:17 CET Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 19:52:17 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050309230239.ZNKW22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] *cyana/ciana... ed aciano X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Danko, Richard! Me tre gratitudas tua detaloza respondo, malgre ke me ne ja tote komprenis, kad existas ulsorta relato 'intre' l' vorti "aciano" e *cyana/ciana. Irgakaze, la formo "aciano" semblas kontenar la radiko Greka "kyan [blua] (cian-)", e lo povus esar util a ni, lor la decido pri l' vorto *cyana/ciana. Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A --- rich.steven@xtra.co.nz skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partako e samideani , En angla, la vorto �buebottle� havas adminime tri senci: (1) Planto, �Centaurea cyanus�. Dyer donas �aciano� por ta planto. (En Esperanto �cejano�). Anke en angla ta planto nomesas �cornflower�. (2) Animalo: Tipo di meduzo, �Physalia�, kun nociva piko. (Esperanto: cianea). (3) Animalo: Tipo di musho kun blua korpo. (Esperanto �viandmusho�). La �cian� parto di �aciano� es de la greka �kyan� = blua. Desfortunoze, ni havas koloro (blua-verda) en lumteorio di fiziko ed anke la kemiala grupo -CN o cianido. Certena kompozaji di �CN havas blua koloro. Forsan altra samideani donos plusa informo. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Partaka > Date: 2005/03/09 Wed PM 03:00:30 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] *cyana/ciana... ed aciano > > Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1618 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83003 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2005 02:32:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2005 02:32:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2005 02:32:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2005 02:32:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2005 02:31:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 02:30:45 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c52570$32f59f90$9a40fed5@alcali> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 6169 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: [linguo] Re: Progreso dijitala 166 / Ca -> Ta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Fernando, > La ret-pagino enretigesIs (forsan plura dii ante nun) da= Ronald. Ne > importas se me apertas ta ret-pagino o no, irgakaze la ret-pa= gino > enretigesIs da Ronald. Kande vu apertas olu, ta retpagino apertesAs = da > vu. Me tote asentas. En mea respondo a vu me dicis, memorez lo, ke l= a formo 'enretigesis' es ne nur plu kurta e plu oportuna ma anke plu faci= la. Nun me dicas pluse: ol esas anke plu ofta e plu "Idatra", do preske se= mpre preferinda. Nula objeciono pri to. Mea objeciono, memorez lo, ne esis= kontre la formo 'enretigesis' ma kontre la formo 'esas enretigata'- adver= e ne kontre la formo ipsa, nam ol es tote korekta verbala formo en Ido, ma= kontre la fakto ke Ronald, segun mea interpreto, uzis ol por expresar pen= so quan ta formo kontredicas. Kande on apertas ilua pagino e lektas ibe k= e ol =ABesas enretigAta da Ronald=BB, on ya konkluzas ke la enretigo ne ja= finis. Or me supozas ke olua enretigo ja finis e ke Ronald intencis indik= ar lo. Il do pensis ulo ma expresis altro per elektir verbala formo neapta= en ta kuntexto (quankam gramatike korekta). > Altrakaze Ido ne esas land= ala linguo regulozigita, esas sendependa > linguo, do supozeble me devus ob= ediar la Ido-gramatiko por bone uzar Ido > vice obediar la gramatiko di al= tra lingui. En la Hispana on uzas > este/ese/aquel (tri diferanta nuanci se= gun la proximeso a parolanto) > vice ca/ta en Ido (nur du diferanta nuanci)= , e to ne desfaciligas mea > kompreno de Ido. En KGD klare explikesas la k= orekta uzo de ca/ta. Forsan > lo kalkas Franca kustumo, to ne jenas me. Se= oportas chanji en KGD lore > on devus oficaligar oli e chanjar KGD. Segu= n la principo di unasenceso (qua es sakro-santa en Ido) la sama vorto ne d= arfas havar du senci diferanta, e minim multe ol darfas havar du senci qui= es sendubite antonima, quale la senci pri proximeso e foreso. Se 'ta' ind= ikas foreso, ol ne darfas indikar proximeso. Beaufront ipsa - e tre juste = - reprochis ad Esperanto la ambigueso di olua pronomo 'chi tiu'. Ni lektez= il: =ABLa logikisti, a qui ni jus respondis, pri la Ido-pluralo per subs= tituco, devus prefere explikar, quale lia =ABtiu=BB, demonstrativo por for= eso, misterioze divenas demonstrativo por proximeso, per la simpla adjunto= di partikulo: chi, qua tale recevas rolo stranjega, nam ulo ne povas esar= samtempe fora e proxima.=BB (KGD, =A7 10, p. 22, pednoto 1 di p. 21) =AB= Ulo ne povas esar samtempe fora e proxima=BB. Ni merkez ilua saja vorti e = transirez al binomio ca/ta: Beaufront ipsa dicas: =AB[...] 'ca' od 'ica' = por l'objekti, di qui on volas indikar explicite la proximeso; 'ta' od 'it= a' por la fora objekti, od ordinare.=BB [KGD, =A7 34, p. 34] E pluse: = =AB[...] en la praktiko, on indikas omna enti od objekti per 'ta', 'ita', = kande on ne volas tote partikulare indikar la proximeso.=BB [KGD, =A7 34, = p. 34] Pose on trovas la motivo di tala laxeso: =AB[...] pro ke 'ta' ('it= a') esas plu facile pronuncebla kam 'ca' ('ica') da multa homi, nome dal A= nglalinguani, kande ol komencas frazomembro, o sequas konsonanto, decidesi= s, ke 'ta' ('ita') sempre uzesos kom demonstrativo, ecepte kande on volos = tote explicite indikar la proximeso; lore, kompreneble on uzos: ica, ca; i= ci, ci; ico, co.=BB [KGD, =A7 34, p. 37, pednoto 1] Yen do la motivo. La = supere mencionita laxeso konsequas de ke kelka populi pronuncas plu facile= 'ta' kam 'ca'... Me ne volas komentar. Konseque, kande on dicas 'ta libro= ' por indikar libro quan on tenas en la manuo di flexita brakio proxim o m= em an la pektoro, on agas lo pro ke on ne volas =ABtote explicite=BB (segu= n la Akademio) o =ABtote partikulare=BB (segun Beaufront) indikar olua pro= ximeso. Pro ne volar indikar =ABtote explicite/partikulare=BB tal proximes= o, on tamen rekursas a vorto qua, segun la principo di unasenceso, darfas = indikar nur foreso, quankam omnu povas klare, objektale e senpartise vidar= e konstatar ke la koncernata libro trovesas proxim la parolanto. Se vu,= kara Fernando, judikas tal rezono e procedo kom laudinda, od adminime kom= sequinda, nur pro ke ol imprimesis sur la pagini di libro quan, segun mea= konstato, multa Idisti veneracas tam fervoroze kam la Esperantisti sua = =ABnetushebla=BB Fundamento - nu, cafoye me ne asentas vua opiniono. Omna= -kaze, e malgre lo supere citita de KGD,, singla parolanto darfas uzar 'ca'= irge-quande lu volas, nam nur lu savas ka e kande lu volas indikar =ABtot= e explicite/partikulare=BB la proximeso. Exemple, se Ronald skribis 'ca pa= gino', il certe agis lo pro volar indikar =ABtote explicite/partikulare=BB= olua proximeso (fizikala o mentala) e nula Neves o nula Tejon darfas emen= dar ta vorto, nam nula Neves o nula Tejon savas quale Ronald rezonis pri = ca punto nek quale il imaginis la situeso dil objekto. Se por vu, Fernan= do, =ABne oportas montrar proximeso di ret-pagino=BB, nam omna pagini es v= idebla =ABde la sama disto=BB sur la skreno, forsan segun Ronald - e certe= segun me - oportas montrar la proximeso dil pagino qua nun videsas sur l= a skreno, kontraste kun la foreso (fizikala o mentala) dil pagini qui nun = ne videsas ibe. Se me komprus nova libro en Ido e lektus en la prefaco =AB= Kara lektero, me esperas ke ta libro multe plezos a vu=BB, me sentus kelka= koldeso, malgre la advoko =ABkara lektero=BB. Se tamen me lektus =ABKara = lektero, me esperas ke ca libro multe plezos a vu=BB, me sentus me plu pro= xim la autoro, quale se lu sidus en apuda fotelo e konversus kun me. Forsa= n altri ne sentus tale. To ne multe importas, nam la homala sentimenti, e= moci e gusti, tro komplexa e variema, ne es expresebla per equacioni. Lo i= mportanta es ne vidar interdikti ube existas ne interdikti ma nur koncesi= e konvencioni. > En la Hispana on uzas > este/ese/aquel (tri diferanta = nuanci segun la proximeso a parolanto) Yes, anke en la Portugalana: este/e= sse/aquele. Tamen en Brazilia on dicas 'esse' en pasable multa kazi kande = ni en Portugal dicas 'este'... > Se oportas chanji en KGD lore > on devus= oficaligar oli e chanjar KGD. Lo supere dicita montras ke me tote ne prop= ozas chanji. Me esperas ke nulu misinterpretos mea vorti. Kun kordiala sa= luti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1619 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97955 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2005 03:53:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2005 03:53:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.24) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2005 03:53:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2005 03:53:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2005 03:53:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 03:53:41 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2768 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Kun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Eduardo, Vua questiono es tre interesanta ed instigis me explorar, s= tudiar e reflektar. Yen mea komenti. > Segun me komprenas, la prepozicion= o "kun" esas uzenda kande onu > indikas "akompanata da". Ne nur. La KGD = dicas: =ABKun =3D akompanate da..., juntite a...=BB (=A7 79, p. 78) Du li= nei avan lo supera, Beaufront dicas pluse: =AB'kun', quale ni vidis, indik= as akompano, uniono=BB. En la dicionario da Dyer on lektas: =ABkun: with,= in company with, in connection with=BB En la dicionario da Pesch (ilqua t= radukis la defini Akademiala) on trovas: =ABkun. I Akompanata da... - II = Karakterizata da... Juntita a...=BB Rezume, e segun mea interpreto, la pre= poziciono 'kun' indikas tri idei: 1) akompanata da 2) unionita/juntita a = 3) karakterizata da > Olua korespondanto en la lingui naturala (G: > mit,= A: with, F: avec, I e H: con), edc., havas signifiki plu ampla, > pri qu= i la KGD avertas, por evitar trouzo di ta prepoziciono en Ido. Advere en K= GD Beaufront avertas nur pri la misuzo di 'kun' vice 'per'. > Altra kazo = "desfacila" esas frazi quala: > -the man with the brown hat > -the chair wi= th a broken leg, edc. Segun mea interpreto tala frazi bone fitas en la ide= o 3 (karakterizata da): a) la viro kun bruna chapelo [=3D karakterizata d= a bruna chapelo] b) la stulo kun ruptita pedo [=3D karakterizata da ruptita= pedo] En a) on povus, segun mea judiko, uzar anke la prepoziciono 'en', = nam la komuna raciono quik komprenus =ABviro (di qua la vertico es) en bru= na chapelo=BB > E to povas divenar mem plu komplexa, quale en: > -the car = with the door that was broken in the accident. Se me bone komprenas la fra= zo: La automobilo di qua la pordo ruptesis dum la acidento Nun me retrove= nez al frazo quan me tradukis en mea antea mesajo: Il sidis kun sua dorso = turnita a(d) (i)li. Semblas a me ke anke en ca kazo (quankam me tante evid= ente) on povas uzar la interpreto 3 (karakterizata da). Evidente koncernes= as karakterizo nur okazionala o mem instantala, ma tre importanta por la = naracanto. Segun ica, du detali es naracinda: la sido e la dorso- turno. Ol= i eventas samtempe ed es neseparebla. La dorso-turno do quaze karakterizas= la sido. Semblas ke Dyer ne aprobis tala uzo di 'kun', segun la exe= mplo-frazi qui aparas en la koncernanta artiklo en ilua Angla-Ido-dicionar= io: a) the lady with blue eyes: la damo havanta blua okuli b) to speak wi= th his hands in his pocktets: la manui en la poshi, il parolis ad me; il p= arolis ad me, dum ke ilua manui esis en ilua poshi Nu, me opinionas ke ta = frazi divenus multe plu eleganta se on uzus la prepoziciono 'kun': a) la = damo kun blua okuli (o mem plu bone: la blu-okula damo) b) il parolis a me= kun la manui en la poshi Kun kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1620 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7328 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2005 19:42:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2005 19:42:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.55) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2005 19:42:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 56139 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2005 19:42:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20050311194210.56137.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.152] by web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:42:10 CET Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:42:10 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Kun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Eduardo! Segun me, on povas tradukar plur-maniere la frazi propozita sube da tu. Tamen, unesme, on devas konciar cakaze, ke l' frazo postulas nul exakta vorto o tradukuro quala "kun". Yen kelka exempli: - Il sidis turnanta sua dorso a(d) (i)li - Il sidis dum turnar sua dorso... - Il sidis dorso-turnita a(d) (i)li - La viro portanta (weranta, geranta) bruna chapelo - La viro brun-chapelizita - La stulo havanta ruptita podo - La stulo podo-ruptita - L'automobilo di qua la pordo ruptesis dum l'acidento - L'automobilo pordo-ruptita dum l'acidento Me ne savas, ka me esabas suficante konkreta e justa dum pozar tal exempli, nam me intencabas nur montrar kelk altra posibla voyi e solvuri. Maxim amikal *adeo! P A R T A K A --- "Eduardo A. Rodi" skribis: --------------------------------- Kara samideani, En Idolisto, me questionis, inter altra dubiti, quale dicar en Ido l'expresuro Angla "he was sitting with his back to them". Gon�alo Neves respondis: > Il sidis kun sua dorso turnita a(d) (i)li. Segun me komprenas, la prepoziciono "kun" esas uzenda kande onu indikas "akompanata da". Olua korespondanto en la lingui naturala (G: mit, A: with, F: avec, I e H: con), edc., havas signifiki plu ampla, pri qui la KGD avertas, por evitar trouzo di ta prepoziciono en Ido. Tamen, kelkafoye divenas tre desfacila selektar la prepoziciono maxim apta por signifiki en qui la prepoziciono uzata en la lingui naturala esas la "tradukuro" di "kun". E la frazo suba esas bon exemplo di to. Altra kazo "desfacila" esas frazi quala: -the man with the brown hat -the chair with a broken leg, edc. En ta kazi "with" semblas signifikar "karakterizita da". Por to ni ya havas la sufixo -ier-, ma quale adjuntar ta sufixo ne a vorto ma a frazo plurvorta quale en ta exempli , . E to povas divenar mem plu komplexa, quale en: -the car with the door that was broken in the accident. Mea questiono esas: quale on povas expresar ta idei en qui "kun" ne signifikas exakte "akompanata da". Vin predankas amikale Eduardo A. RODI. Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1621 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72462 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2005 06:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2005 06:20:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2005 06:20:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2005 06:20:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2005 06:20:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:20:51 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050311194210.56137.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 615 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Me dankas via reflekto pri mea questiono e via respondo a= d olu. Kara Partaka, Me komprenas ke en Ido esas sempre multa manieri exp= resar irg ideo. Me nur questionis me ka la prepoziciono "kun" esas uzebla = en exempli quale ti quin me mencionis. Pluse, forsan pro mea linguo denask= a, me sentas ke la tradukuri qui uzas la participo esas ya korekta, ma ne = tro eleganta. Irgakaze, to nedicinde ne impedas olia uzado. Kara Gon=E7al= o, Quale me skribis por Idolisto, me tre joyas ke vu duras donacar al Idi= staro vua sempre lektinda skribaji en nia linguo. Vi omna standez bone. E= duardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1622 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11161 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2005 13:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2005 13:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2005 13:30:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2005 13:30:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2005 13:30:07 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:30:01 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 12181 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: patro/matro (historiala studiuro) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Nun me volas atraktar vua atenco al sequanta studiuro, inspi= rita da recenta dubito da Steve Walesh en Idolisto. 1) 1907 Ido heredis = de Esperanto la sistemo 'patro (maskula genitanto) / patrino / gepatri' ed= uzis ol sen granda skandali o revolti dum la unesma yari. Tamen tre frue= on komencis manifestar du tendenci o deziri: a) La deziro enduktar la rad= iko 'matr'. b) La deziro atribuar nedeterminita genro ad omna substantivi.= Yen kelka etapi di tal developo: 2) Mayo 1910 F. Vignola propozas 'damo= ', 'matro' e 'soro' vice: 'virino', 'patrino' e 'fratino' [Progreso, III-1= 44]. P. de Janko citas la sequanta opiniono da komto Franz Calice, =ABece= lanta konocanto di orientala (ed anke di ocidentala) lingui=BB: =ABmem la = lingui, qui ne havas diversa radiki por 'fratino', 'filyino' [filiino], vi= rino, edc, sed ulamaniere expresas ta idei per la radiki 'frato', 'filyo' = [filio], 'viro' edc, tamen _omni_ havas specala vorto por 'patrino', tale = ke 'patrino' nultempe esas expresata quale 'femina' patro.=BB Il komentas = pluse ke =ABTo semblas a me tre atencinda=BB [Progreso, III-145]. 3) Janu= aro 1911 P. Lusana judikas kom =ABkonvenanta e tre konsilinda=BB aceptar l= a propozo pri 'matro', =ABkoncepto ne nur tote internaciona, ma anke tre = sentimentale humana e jentila=BB. Tamen il precizigas ke =ABne esus konsil= inda extensar ad altra feminala substantivi tala ecepto, por ne krear altr= a malfacilaji [desfacilaji] en nia linguo=BB. Il alegas anke ke la hispana= 'hermano' e 'hermana' =ABdonas a ni exemplo di regulaleso mem por 'frat-o= , -ino'=BB [Progreso, III-632]. 4) Februaro 1911 En Progreso [III-666] ap= aras la akademiala decido 199, facita ye 24 dec. 1910: =ABExter 'matro' (a= nkore diskutata) on admisas nul altra specala radiki femina vice derivaji = [III, 144), per 9 no, 1 ajorno.=BB Alfred Dutens =ABenergie protestas=BB k= ontre eventuala remplasigo di 'patrino' per 'matro' [Progreso, III-682]. = 5) Marto 1911 Jan Roze atencigas ke =ABNi ja havas un vorto kun ica latina= radiko: 'matrono', qua signifikas mariajita, respektinda virino [muliero= ]=BB e pluse ke =ABni havas tota serio de simila vorti, qui omna origine k= ontenas en su la femineso: 'madono', 'amazono' e.c.=BB Konseque, =ABOn jud= ikez tala specala nomizi di femina personi ne quale ecepti, ma quale apart= a speco de vorti (kun la femineso en su). Do anke 'matro' esus ne ecepto, = ma nur plurichigo di ta vortogrupo=BB [Progreso, IV-26]. La redaktero adj= untas la sequanta komento: =ABSro C. de Rey-Pailhade opinionas, ke ni deva= s admisar nula ecepto en nia "belega e bonega linguo", e dicar sempre 'pat= rino'. Omna sa [lua] dicipli [dicipuli] opinionas same=BB [Progreso, IV-26= ]. P. de Janko informas ke =ABPri 'patrino' o 'matro', la genarala sentim= ento semblas preferar specala vorto 'matro', e pro to volunte admisar ecep= to.=BB Tamen il atencigas ke =ABen ta kazo on devos enduktar nuva [nova] r= adiko por expresar unu de la gepatri sen determinar la sexuo, pro ke lore = on neplus bone povos kompozar la vorto 'ge-patri' (mem se on konservos la = prefixo 'ge-') same kam prezente on ne povas dicar 'ge-masli' [ge-maskuli]= por expresar masli [maskuli] e femini kune.=BB Pos altra konsideri Janko = dicas pluse: =ABMe propozas do por ta ideo 'eltero' od eventuale 'eltro' s= egun D 'Eltern', tale ke 'elteri' ('eltri') vicos [remplasos] la nuna 'gep= atri'=BB [IV-27]. 6) Mayo 1911 A.-J. Storder kontributas la sequanta impo= rtanta argumento, qua pose plurfoye citesos en diversa verki: =ABEminenta = sociologiisti (sekondata da arkeologi, mitologiisti, yurohistoriisti ed et= nologiisti) demonstris en la lasta yardeki, ke ante "patrala yuro" valori= s "matrala yuro", ke mem la nociono "matro" esas plu olda kam la nociono "= patro". En la primitiva kulturo on ne konocas "patro", qua esas nur produk= tajo di plu tarda epoki kun developita yurala koncepti, dum ke la relato i= nter la parturanta virino e la naskanta infanto institucesas da naturo.=BB= Tamen la autoro sentis la bezono precizigar ke =ABOn me miskomprenez me: = me ne citas ta fakto kom argumento por vicigo [remplasigo] di nia 'patrino= ' per 'matro', me nur volas konstatar, ke omna ciencisti, qui okupas su pe= r la mencionita materio, reputus kom neoportuna, se li, uzante Ido, devus = dicar e skribar 'patrino', jus kande li pruvas existo di 'patrino' ante '= patro'=BB [IV-143]. 'Matro' duris atraktar e facinar, ma on ankore hezitis= e koncesis... 7) Junio 1911 J. Kovacic opinionas ke =ABMem se on aceptus= la radiko 'matro', on devus tamen permisar anke la uzo di 'patrino', pro = ke nia linguo devas restar sen ecepti en la derivado=BB. Pluse, segun il = =ABla vorto 'patrino' esas bela, facile pronuncebla e ja forte radikizita = en nia linguo=BB [IV-226]. 8) Septembro 1911 Samtempe duras la altra ten= denco o deziro supere mencionita, qua tamen provizore vinkesas dal akademi= ala decido 484, facita ye 31 jul. 1911 [Progreso IV-380]: =ABOn repulsas l= a propozo ke omna substantivi signifikas nedeterminita sexuo (I, 629, 694;= II, 141, 282, 283, 474; III, 395, 472, 616; IV, 22, 26) per 4 voci ek 9.= =BB 9) Februaro 1912 Se ta tendenco vinkesas, la unesma, kontraste, povas= celebrar triumfo pos la akademiala decido 662, facita ye 17 dec. 1911 [Pr= ogreso, IV- 690]: =ABOn adoptas 'matro' apud 'patrino' kun la sama senco (I= II, 145, 632, 666, 682; IV, 226, 143, 226)=BB. En ca etapo di developeso= nia linguo prizentas do la sequanta sistemo: 'patro (maskula genitanto) /= patrino =3D matro / gepatri'. 10) Junio 1913 Nun anke la duesma tendenco= triumfas pos la akademiala decido 1089 [Progreso, VI-212]: =ABOn decidas = definitive, ke la substantivi generale signifikez nedeterminita sexuo (dec= ido 714: V, 65)=BB. Ca decido kompletigesas dal akademiala decido 1090: = =ABOn adoptas unanime e definitive la sufixo '-ul' por indikar la maskula = sexuo=BB (decido 714: V, 35) [Progreso, VI-212]. To signifikas ke en ca e= tapo nia linguo prizentas la sequanta sistemo: 'patro (sengenra genitanto)= / patrulo / patrino =3D matro / gepatri'. Tamen ca sistemo ne faliis prod= uktar dubiti e komenti... 11) Oktobro 1913 En Progreso [VI-433,434] apara= s importanta artiklo da Beaufront sub la titulo =ABLinguala questioni=BB e= la subtitulo =ABNomi sengenra e nomi genrala=BB. Per pednoto la redaktero= klarigas: =ABIca artiklo semblis a ni utila komento di la decidi 1089 e 1= 090 di l'Akademio (VI, 212), pri qui on demandis kelka expliki.=BB La art= iklo es pasable longa. Me citez nur la maxim importanta alinei. Beaufront = argumentas ke =ABNi absolute devas havar tri formi, segun la kazi: '-o' po= r la tota speco (maskuli o femini), '-ulo' por maskulo, '-ino' por femino.= Ex.: 'homo', 'homi' ne fixigas pri la sexuo, ma indikas la speco homa sen= distingo pri maskuli o femini; 'homulo' indikas formale la maskulo, e 'ho= mino' (qua supresas la stranja 'virino') indikas formale femino.=BB Pos al= tra konsideri il explikas: =ABPor konjugar la maskulo e femino en un sola = vorto, on uzas 'ge-'. Ex.: 'gepatri' (la patrulo e la patrino).=BB. Tra la= tota artiklo il facas nula menciono pri 'matro'... (nula menciono pri 'm= atro') 12) Decembro 1913 Uli opinionas ke la vorto 'matro' ne bone fitas = en la nova sistemo, nam 'patro' ne plus signifikas =ABmaskula genitanto=BB= . Dum ke on sentis la antea paro 'patro/matro' kom equilibranta, la nuna = paro 'patrulo/matro' (alternativo di ' patrulo/patrino') semblas repugnant= a. Pro to Couturat sentas la bezono precizigar la problemo en detaloza ar= tiklo [Progreso, VI-535], ek qua me extraktas lo sequanta: =ABOn questiona= s ni, quon divenas 'matro' en la nuna sistemo, tre klare expozita (VI, p. = 433). Nulo esas chanjita pri lu: "On adoptis 'matro' apud 'patrino' kun la= sama senco" (decido 662; IV, 690); 'matro' restas kom sentimentala equiva= lanto di 'patrino'. Ma 'patrino' evidente esas la logikala simetrajo di 'p= atrulo': nam 'patro' ne plus havas senco maskula. Ti qui prizas la duo: 'p= atro', 'matro', devus atencar, ke ol konstitucus shokanta ecepto en la tot= a sistemo, e ke on ne povus dicar: 'gepatri', se 'patro' esus nur maskula!= =BB Hike Couturat enduktas do nova nuanco: 'matro' kom =ABsentimentala eq= uivalanto=BB di 'patrino'. To semble serenigis la spiriti. Depos ca dato n= e es tante facila sequar omna epizodi di nia folietono. Me probos trovar l= a precipua reper-punti. 13) 1915 En la 'Dictionnaire Fran=E7ais-Ido' da Be= aufront e Couturat on trovas: =ABp=E8re: patr(ul)o; m=E8re: matro, patr-in= o; les p=E8re et m=E8re: la ge-patri=BB. 14) 1924 En la Exercaro da Beau= front, =ABkonform al decidi dil Idist Akademio=BB on trovas: =ABLa filii d= evas respektar ed amar sua gepatri (la patrulo e la patrino)=BB (p. 3). E= n la famoza Ido-Angla-dicionario da Dyer (1924) on trovas: =ABmatr-o: moth= er; -ala: maternal; -eto: little m.; (fig.) mamma; -eso: maternity: mother= liness; -ala linguo: m. tongue; -aquo: (chem.) mother-liquor. V. exp.: Mat= ro esas la sentimental equivalanto di patrino; VI-535.=BB En la Angla-Ido= -dicionario dal sama autoro on trovas: ==ABmother: matro, patrino; the fath= er and the mother: la (ge)patri; father: patrulo; parent: patr-o, -ulo, -i= no.=BB 15) 1925 En la famoza KGD da Beaufront on lektas: =ABpatro: un del= genitanti: patrulo: la genitanto o patro maskula: patrino: la genitanto o= patro femina (qua tote darfas nomizesar 'matro')=BB (p. 22). 16) 1927 E= n la kinesma edituro di 'Ido =96 Petit Manuel' da Beaufront on lektas: =AB= En familio on trovas patrulo, patrino e filii, qui esas filiuli o filiini= =BB (p. 5); =ABgepatri: (les) parents, p=E8re et m=E8re=BB (p. 18); =ABDum= ke li abandonesis da omni, mea bomatro sokursis li en lia abandoneso=BB (= p. 19); =ABLore nia gepatri laudesis, kontre ke li nun blamesas=BB (p. 19)= . En olua finala lexiko on trovas: =ABmatro: m=E8re (DEFIRS); patro: paren= te, p=E8re o m=E8re (EFIS)=BB. 17) 1929 Adoptesas la vorto 'genitori' vic= e 'gepatri' (segun informo en 'Lexiko di nova vorti' da Camiel de Cock, 19= 88). 18) 1938 En la quaresma edituro di 'Vocabulaire Usuel' da Beaufront = on trovas: =ABgenitori: parents (p=E8re et m=E8re); matro: m=E8re; patro: = p=E8re.=BB Semblas do ke ante ta dato enduktesis nova sistemo: 'patro (nur= maskula) / matro / genitori' e ke 'patrino' e 'gepatri' divenis obsoleta= ... 19) 1964 Nova surprizo! Nia unika monolingua dicionario (10.000 vorti= da Pesch) donas: =ABgenitori: gepatri [de to konsequas ke 'gepatri' ne d= ivenis obsoleta!] matro: patrino homa (equivalanto sentimentala di "patrin= o") [la olima nuanco da Couturat ("sentimentala equivalanto") plus nova nu= anco ("patrino homa") veninta me-ne-savas- de-ube!]; patro: la persono qua = genitis filio [sengenra vorto!]=BB 20) 1988 La Lexiko di nova vorti da Ca= miel de Cock, qui vizas prizentar omna vorti =ABadoptita depos 1922=BB ink= luzas, quale me indikis supere, la nova vorto 'genitori' (1929) ma dicas a= bsolute nulo pri eventuala senco-modifiko di 'patro'. Nun me questionas: = A) Kad inter 1927 e 1938 aparis oficala decido pri ta senco-modifiko, e P= esch e Cock "obliviis" inkluzar ol en sua verki? o B) Kad on "obliviis" f= acar tal oficala decido pro ke komuna uzo (precipue depos la adopto di 'ge= nitori' en 1929) pokope ostracismizis 'patrino' ed atribuis a 'patro' la s= enco di 'maskula genitoro'? Ka tala uzo divenis tante generala ed evidenta= ke on simple "obliviis" ke la decidi 1089/1090 supresabis la olima decido= 484? Qua savas la respondo? Segun la nuna uzo, quale Neussner e Partaka= recente atencigis en Idolisto, ni sendubite havas la sequanta sistemo: 'p= atro (nur maskula) / matro / genitori'. Oportas do savar ka e kande facesi= s tal oficala decido. Se ol ne facesis, la DK mustas facar e publikigar ol= . Se ol ja facesis, anke oportas publikigar ol en la *nexta lexiko, nam l= a Lexiko da Camile De Cock omisis ol. Pro ke ta lexiko =96 kontenanta omna= decidi depos 1922 =96 omisis ol, oficale =96 se on volas rezonar segun st= rikta legaleso =96 'patro' ankore signifikas 'genitoro maskula o femina', = quankam la nuna uzo =96 tre kompreninde e juste =96 atribuas ad ol la senc= o 'maskula genitoro'... Me esperas ke la DK balde solvos ca misterio. Kun= kordiala saluti, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1623 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16400 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2005 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2005 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2005 21:20:31 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.163.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.163] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DAwzF-0008tA-77 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:20:30 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:23:40 GMT Message-ID: <2005314212340.278519@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] patro/matro (historiala studiuro) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, Danko pro vua laboro pri la historio dil senco di "patro".= Forsan olim me nur supozis ke se on adoptis "genitoro" kun sama senco kam= "patro", on samtempe chanjis la senco di "patro" por esar nur por maskulo.= Se esis ta decido pri "patro", esas posibla ke ol aparis en "Mondo" qua e= sis la oficala organo di ULI dum kelka yari ante la duesma mondmilito, od e= n "Ofical Informilo" pri qua me savas preske nulo. Fortunoze, en la Raport= o da Lektoro Janis Roze, lu raportis ye pagino 22: "L'Akademio admisas ke p= atro esez uzata kom korespondanto mem sexuala di matro." Semblas ke Roze ci= tis de "Ofical Informilo", Numero 1, 31a marto 1928. Me kredas to signifik= as ke "patro" esas nur maskulo same quale "matro" esas nur femino. Yen la f= orsan lasta restanta peco dil historio. Kordiale, Robert. __________ Gon= calo Neves skribis: =A0Segun la nuna uzo, quale Neussner e Partaka recente = atencigis en =A0Idolisto, ni sendubite havas la sequanta sistemo: 'patro (n= ur =A0maskula) / matro / genitori'. Oportas do savar ka e kande facesis tal= =A0oficala decido. Se ol ne facesis, la DK mustas facar e publikigar =A0ol= . Se ol ja facesis, anke oportas publikigar ol en la *nexta =A0lexiko, nam = la Lexiko da Camile De Cock omisis ol. Pro ke ta lexiko =A0=96 kontenanta = =A0omna decidi depos 1922 =96 omisis ol, oficale =96 se on volas rezonar = =A0segun strikta legaleso =96 'patro' ankore signifikas 'genitoro maskula = =A0o femina', quankam la nuna uzo =96 tre kompreninde e juste =96 atribuas = =A0ad ol la senco 'maskula genitoro'... =A0Me esperas ke la DK balde solvo= s ca misterio. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1624 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76440 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2005 03:02:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2005 03:02:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2005 03:02:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2005 03:02:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2005 03:02:09 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:02:03 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005314212340.278519@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1079 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: patro/matro (historiala studiuro) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, > Fortunoze, en la Raporto da Lektoro Janis Roze, lu raporti= s ye pagino 22: > "L'Akademio admisas ke patro esez uzata kom korespondant= o mem sexuala di matro." > Semblas ke Roze citis de "Ofical Informilo", Nu= mero 1, 31a marto 1928. La uzo di 'admisar' en la supera frazo da Roze es= tro ambigua (ordinare on admisas ulu/ulo ad ulo). Me do ne es certa pri l= o vizata da il: Kad il volis dicar ke: a) L'Akademio agnoskas tala uzo e= konsentas ad ol? b) L'Akademio permisas tala uzo (forsan pro olua grandega= difuzeso)? Omna-kaze 'admisar' ne es 'decidar'. Mankas la decido-numero. = Ka l'Akademio ya decidis o ne decidis? O kad ol nur agnoskis o permisis? = La afero, segun mea interpreto, ne ja es tote klara. Samideani kun plu vas= ta libraro (forsan Neussner) devus serchar la citita numero di "ofical Inf= ormilo". E pro quo Camiel De Cock ne mencionis ta decido en sua lexiko, s= e olta vere existas? E pro quo Pesch donas la stranja defini citita en me= a lasta mesajo? Se nur un de li erorabus, me povus komprenar. Ma la du?...= Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1625 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91095 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2005 10:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2005 10:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.185) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2005 10:00:34 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.209] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DBVKK-00062u-00; Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:00:32 +0100 Received: from [212.114.231.151] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DBVKH-0004YO-00; Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:00:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c52a0e$f911a8c0$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> To: "Dmitri Laptcionak" , "Mailingliste Ido- RUSA" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:00:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Tradukuro dil Germana texto dil Idopropagilo.doc X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara gesamideani! Ante kelka semani nia samideano James Chandler questioni= s, ka ne esas posibla editar la ecelanta Ido-propagilo kreita di la diligen= ta Ido-amiki Berlin, quan on trovas ye http://www.ido-vivo.info/Idopropagil= o/ anke en altra lingui. Okazione dil cayarala Ido-konfero, qua eventos in= ter la 23esma e 27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia) nia Fran= ca samideano Robert Pontnau tradukis la Germana texto aden la Franca linguo= e Franca edituro dil propagilo duminstante esas preparata. Ante kelka dii = nia samideano G=FCnter Schlemminger di Berlin sendis Ido-tradukuro dil Germ= ana texto a me e pregis sendar ol ad omna Idisti por posibligar a li traduk= ar ol ad altra lingui. La Berlinani esus kapabla krear la propagilo anke en= altra lingui, se li havus la texti en ta lingui. Do, me pregas omna samid= eani, qui sentas su kapabla asumar tala tasko tradukar la sequanta texto ad= en lia propra linguo e sendar ca tradukuro a me (frank.kasper@ido.li ). Ece= pte tradukuri aden la Germana e la Franca tradukuro ad omna lingui esas bez= onata e dezirata. Voluntez remplasar l'informi, qui koncernas a Germania (k= ontakt-adresi e.c.) od a la Germana linguo per l'equivalanta informi koncer= ne vua lando o linguo. Me predankas a vi por via penadi. Esperante, ke la= Ido-propagilo editesos en multa lingui me kordialege salutas vi omna. Fra= nk Kasper prezidanto dil Germana Ido-Societo frank.kasper@ido.li 1A Komu= nikado ronde cirkum la mondo per Ido! 1B Me tradukis parto di mea kemial= a e filozofiala verki ad Ido e konstatis, ke la tradukuro esis ne nur plu k= urta kam la Germana texto, ma ke ol anke retrodonas la pensi plu klare e pl= u precize. Prof. Wilhelm Ostwald, = Nobel- premiizito Ido-kontakti -Introduktin a la linguo Ido on povas o= frar en kazo di bezono. Ye Ido-projeti en skoli Ido-amiki povas helpar. Int= ereso povas anuncesar a la Ido-amiki Berlin ye telefon-numero (030) 4256744= (sioro Eberhard Scholz). -Ido-literaturo povas komendesar ye la "Deutsche= Ido-Gesellschaft e.V." 32784 Waldkappel, Th=FCringer Stra=DFe 3. -www.ido= .li esas la centrala Ido-info-adreso en l'interreto. -Ido-parteneri esas e= n multa landi. Esas posibla mediacar adresi en konekteso kun linguo-kursi. = -Esas Ido-forumi en l'interreto. -Esas Ido-revui, exemple "Progreso" ed "= Ido-Saluto"! 2A Mondo-linguo "Ido" depos 1907 Krear komuna linguo por l= a homaro esas yar-centi olda ideo. Ye fino dil 19. yar-cento specale forte = laboresis pri la realigeso di ca ideo. Linguala projeti formacesis, exemple= Volap=FCk ed Esperanto, qui pasable rapide prenis plu granda bazo en plura= landi. Koherante kun l'Expozado Universala 1900 fondesis delegitaro pri l= 'acepto di internaciona help-linguo, a qua 310 societi de multa landi adher= is e qua obtenis la konsento de 1250 membri di universitati ed akademii. Ye= 1907 pos l'exameno di diversa linguala projeti Esperanto selektesis kom in= ternaciona help-linguo kun la direktivo pozar serio di propozita emenduri. = Ici realigesis per reformita Esperanto, qua recevis la nomo Ido. La propaga= do di Ido kom mondo-linguo lore impedesis precipue pro la du mondo-militi e= la divido dil mondo en enemika kampeyi. La chanjo politikala en la yaro 19= 89 e la moderna kondicioni komunikala kun l'interreto kreis nova posiblaji = por la propagado di Ido precipue en Europa, ma anke en la tota mondo. Multa= nova relati komunikala ja formacesis ed evolucionas. Do Ido povus divenar = la help-linguo por la komprenigado en la Parlamento Europana, qua pos sua e= xtenso en mayo 2004 bezonas grandega traduko-spenso inter plu kam 20 lingui= . 2B Nia vicini proximeskas Kun la plularjigeso dil Uniono Europana ye = mayo 2004 tam la neceseso kam samtempe anke la defacilesi augmentis por kom= prenigar kun ili. La plu kam 20 lingui en la EU esas barili di interkompren= igeso, qui povas supervindar, e nome per helpo dil mond-linguo Ido. Quo es= as Ido? Quon povas Ido? *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ido esas linguo, qua da cie= nci di diversa landi developesis por la internaciona komprenigeso. *=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ido esas proporcionale facile lernebla e samtempe stilale k= lara. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ido esas fondita sur la vortaro di lingui Euro= pana. Kom vort-radiki iti selektesis, qui maxim freque aparas en la lingui.= *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 La gramatiko esas simpla e klara. Por la komprenige= so lo nenecesa esas eludita, por exemplo relate la deklino e konjugo. *=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Esas nula ecepto. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 La vorto-speci = esas dicernebla segun la dezinenci. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Singla litero se= mpre esas pronuncata egale. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Per l'apliko de literi, = qui existas sur omna klaveri, Ido esas tre bone apta ad la komunikado en in= terreto. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ido ne diplasez la lingui nacionala, ma ser= vez la interkomprenado inter la nacioni. = Interkomprenez kun amiki en la mondo! 3A B Internaciona sko= lanala chato per la mond-linguo Ido Maryla (skolanino ek Polonia) e Pedro = (skolanulo ek Hispania) renkontras l'una l'altra en ula skolanala chat-cham= bro e konversas en Ido. Ye sequanta dio Pedro ne havas okaziono babilar ku= n Maryla en interreto. Pro to il sendas ad el la sequanta retmesajo: Kara= kteri dil Ido-lingui: _Multa vorti esas uzata, qui a la maxim multi de = ni esas ja konocata ek la Germana linguo rispektive kom stranjera vorti. ..= ......Omna substantivi finas kun -o, omna adjektivi finas kun -a, omna deri= vita adverbi finas kun -e, verbi en prezento finas kun -as, exemple ...., = verbi en la preterito finas kun -is, exemple ....., verbi en la futuro fina= s kun -os, exemple .... 3C Mikra radiko-vortaro por la mond-linguo Ido = La vortifado Multa vorti kompozesas ek radiko-vorti per helpo da tote kla= ra prefixi e sufixi. Per kambio dil finalo -ar on povas kompozar inter alt= ri vorti kun la sequanta signifiki: Exempli kun la vorto fotografar - -il= o karakterizas la instrumento -uro karakterizas= la produkturo di ula agado -ajo karakterizas la pasiva obje= kto di agado -erio karakterizas la loko di agado -isto = karakterizas ula profesiono -ero amatorala aktiveso, = kustumala aktiveso -ala karakterizas ula atributo La alf= abeto La vokali inflexita =E4, =F6, =FC e la =DF ne existas, same nula lit= eri kun super- o sub-signi (.....). Altre kam en Germana pronuncesas la seq= uanta literi ...... La acento tonika Segun la regulo la prelasta silabo e= sas acentizota, exemple ...........Ye plur-silaba vorti, en qui du vokali s= tacas a la finalo, la pre-iranta silabo esas acentizota, exemple ....... Ye= la infinitivo di la verbi la lasta silabo esas acentizota, exemple .......= La kardinali La personal-pronomi 3D La artiklo Existas nur un= definita artiklo (la). Ol esas ne-variabla e valoras por singularo e plura= lo. ......... Ne-definita artiklo ne existas ............... La substantiv= o Ol finas en singularo per -o, en pluralo per -i. Ol esas ne-variabla, to= esas nula deklin-finali existas. La kazi esas expresota per la helpo di pr= epozicioni. Genitivo: di Dativo: a od ad Akuzativo: Ye ordinara konstrukto = di frazi ol konkordas kun la nominativo (subjekto, predikato, objekto) ....= .....Tamen se on pozas la akuzativ-objekto avan la subjekto, on devas adjun= tar -n a la fino dil objekto. ............ La adjektivo Ol finas per -a = ed esas en singularo e pluralo ed en la kazi ne-variabla: ..........La fina= lo -a di la adjektivo darfas omiesar: ........... Gradi komparala / kompara= tivo: ........... Superlativo: ......... La verbo La modi e la tempi dil= verbo esas dicernata per la finali. La infinitivi finas per -r, prezento: = -ar, preterito: -ir, futuro: -or. La moddi aktiva finas per -s, prezento: -a= s, preterito: -is, futuro: -os. Segun persono e tempo la singla modi dil ve= rbo ne esas dicernata: .......... Kondicionalo-finalo: ......... Imperativo= -finalo: ........ La adverbo La derivita adverbi finas per -e ed esas ne= -variabla. Oli servas por karakterizar pplu bone a)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Verbo = .... b)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Adjektivo .... c)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Adver= bo .... From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1626 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo_neves@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32930 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2005 11:53:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2005 11:53:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2005 11:53:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2005 11:52:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2005 11:52:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:52:41 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c52a0e$f911a8c0$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 995 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Tradukuro dil Germana texto dil Idopropagilo.doc X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=59643734 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Frank, Volunte me tradukos al Portugalana ca bona propagilo. Tamen a= tencez: en la Idala exemplo-frazi dil German-lingua propagilo trovesas er= oreti quin ni prefere ne repetez en altra-lingua propagili (nek lor futura= edito dil German-lingua propagilo): me anke joyas =3D> anke me joyas me = volas studior =3D> me volas studiar interkomprenigas en interreto =3D> int= erkomprenas en interreto ante tri monati =3D> tri monati ante nun ube tu = lojas =3D> ube tu habitas [me citez Dyer: =ABhabitar esas rezidar permanan= te en propra o fixa domo; lojar esas rezidar tempe (kurte) che altra perso= no od en gasteyo] Me lojas en nia chef-urbo Madrid =3D> Me habitas... bo= ne, me anke =3D> bone, anke me Me lojas kun mea familio en la bela Hispana= chef-urbo =3D> Me habitas... Me interesas pri sporto =3D> Me interesas me= pri sporto / Me havas intereso pri sporto / Sporto interesas me Me dezir= as divenor artisto =3D> Me deziras divenar artisto Kun kordiala saluti,= Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1627 Return-Path: X-Sender: idolinguo@bijtenhoorn.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98070 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2005 17:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2005 17:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp04.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.35.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2005 17:46:38 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3779543CEC; Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:46:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.7.3]); Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:46:31 +0100 Message-ID: <423870F1.6060201@bijtenhoorn.nl> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:46:25 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: "germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de" , "geylesidist@yahoogroups.de" , "ido-angla@yahoogroups.com" , "idoespanyol@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-italiano@yahoogroups.com" , Ido-listo , "idonederland@groups.msn.com" , "ido-portugues@yahoogroups.com" , "ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com" , "linguolisto@yahoogroups.com" , "uli-ido@yahoogroups.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Vaganto Subject: Progreso dijitala 175 (oktobro - decembro 1954) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130933041 X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Kar amiki, Cadie me enretigis: Progreso 175 (oktobro - decembro 1954) - 916 kB Kontenajo: - Patzcuaro - Edukado por vivar - Sexton, B.C. (Traduko - originala autoro: Daniel Behrmann (Unesco)) - La unesma yari - Auerbach, S.M. - Quale me divenis Idisto - Dahlberg, Edvin - Pri J. Kreis-Schneeberger - Jacob, Heinz - L'autuno dil vivo - Tesseyre, J.L. (Traduko - originala autoro: Victor Pauchet) - Letri a la redaktero - Vidpunkto (Traduko - originala autoro: Donald R. Broadribb) - Linguala Suplemento (numero 36) - Akademio di Ido - Interlinguala kunlaboro totmonda koram Unesko en Montevideo - Ido-Kroniko - Gou�x, Victor - Decidi oficala di Akademio di Ido - Akademio di Ido Ol esas, kun altra anciena numeri di Progreso, la oficala revuo dil ULI, lektebla dijitale ye: http://www.bijtenhoorn.nl/Ido/progreso/progreso.html Bona lektado! Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 15-3-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1628 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85958 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 11:10:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 11:10:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 11:10:12 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.206] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DBstF-0004VU-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:10:09 +0100 Received: from [212.114.228.47] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DBstE-00086N-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:10:09 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c52ae1$de9e6d60$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> To: References: Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:58:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Eroreti che l'Idala texto dil Idopropagilo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara Gon=E7alo! Me kordialege dankas a vu pro vua pronteso tradukar la Ido= -propagilo a la Portugalana linguo e l'iinformo koncerne l'eroreti trovebla = che l'Ido-erxemplo-frazi dil Germanlingua propagilo. Me ja informis la Berl= inana samideani pri to e pregis korektigar ol ante ke on imprimos altra exe= mpleri anke en altra lingui. Tamen me pregas vua kompreno, ke ni unesme uzo= s l'imprimita exempleri ante imprimar nova e korektigita exempleri. Fine m= e ankore deziras questionar vu ed omna altri, ka vi interesas partoprenar e= n la cayarala Ido-konfero, qua eventos dum la tempo inter la 23esma e 27esm= a di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). Invito ed anunc-formularo on= trovas ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 Kun k= ordiala saluti Frank Kasper From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1629 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo.neves@portugalmail.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73209 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 12:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 12:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 12:51:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 12:51:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2005 12:51:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:51:18 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002d01c52ae1$de9e6d60$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 767 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Eroreti che l'Idala texto dil Idopropagilo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218157330 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Frank, > Tamen me pregas vua kompreno, ke ni unesme uzos l'imprimita= exempleri ante imprimar nova e korektigita exempleri. Evidente on devas = unesme exhaustar l'imprimit exempleri, egarde la kusti e me la fakto ke la= mencionit erori ne es importanta. > Fine me ankore deziras questionar vu= ed omna altri, ka vi interesas partoprenar en la cayarala Ido-konfero, qu= a eventos dum la tempo inter la 23esma e 27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulo= use (Sud-Francia). Ho, yes, me vere deziras partoprenar, ma nun mem ne ja = savas ka me povos, nam mea nuna profesionala vivo es tro kaosatra. Me ya n= e volas iterar lo agita en 1998 (o 1999, me ne plus bone memoras), kande m= e tre fue anuncis mea partopreno e pose mustis retraktar ol. Kordiale, G= on=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1630 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80019 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 20:46:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 20:46:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 20:46:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 80950 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2005 20:46:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20050317204615.80948.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.183] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:46:14 CET Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:46:14 +0100 (CET) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Ka nova Ido-vorti astronomial? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Fernando! Segun semblas, nulu ek ni savas suficante pri astronomio por diskutar favore la konvenanteso inkluzar verbi qual "acensar" e "deklinar" en tal fako. Cetere, ni omna semblas aceptir, ke Dyer e Pesch eroris pro inkluzir extra senco astronomial che tal verbi komuna, olqui ja havas sua propra e tre diferanta signifiko. Se yes, ili ya ne respektis la principo di unsenceso, e nun ni devas agar prie. Se ni advere bezonas nova Ido-vorti astronomial, me supozas ke ni devas unesme propozar oli, e pose, oficaligar oli. Ni devas ya elektar le maxim exakta e konvenanta a nia linguo, nam ni mustas ne ri-erorar. Ka ni do propozas "acensiono" e "deklinaciono" (o "deklinaco") kom simpla substantivi, quin on darfas konvertar a verbi, se necese? Ka ni propozas "acensionar" e "deklinacionar" (o "deklinacar")? Ka formi qual "acensumo" e "deklinumo" ("acensumar" e "deklinumar") esus ne-konvenanta e do refuzinda? Dicez a ni, kara Fernando, ka tu advere bezonas nur la formo substantival, o anke olta verbal. E pose, forsan ni omna povos 'opinar' e decidar pri ta du vorti astronomial. Por Ido e l'astronomio ipsa! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1631 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79340 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2005 22:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2005 22:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2005 22:52:03 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.127.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.127] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DC3qT-000Eyr-DL for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:52:01 +0000 To: Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:55:05 GMT Message-ID: <200531722555.331822@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200531621308.540865@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Fwd: Re: [linguo] Re: patro/matro (historiala studiuro) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, Por me la vorti, "admisas ke ... esez uzata" (ne "esas uza= ta"), esas sat klara. Me kredas ke la vorto "admisar" indikas decido. Tame= n, me nun citas plu multe de la Raporto da Roze: "Konforme al rezultajo dil= Plebicito en "Mondo" (feb. 1926) l'Akademio deklaras, ke ye la 1a de April= o 1928 finas la Periodo Stabilesala. Konseque l'Akademio komencas publikiga= r la modifiki quin, pos komplet e skrupuloz exameno, ol judikas kom realige= bla e segunvole uzebla. 1. L'Akademio admisas ke patro esez uzata kom kores= pondanto mem sexuala di matro. 2. L'Akademio admisas la segunvol eliziono d= i -as en esas ed en omna prezent indikativo dil verbi, [... ] ed omnafoye, = kande l'eliziono di -as ne povas produktar obskureso o kakafonio." Tamen, = ni povas esperar ke ulu qua havas la fonto povos informar ni plu komplete. = Me konfesas ke la vorti "segunvole uzebla" kontributas neklareso al afero. = Forsan on pensis pri punto 2 e pri punto 3 (qua anke koncernis eliziono) ka= nde on skribis ta vorti. >=A0E pro quo Camiel De Cock ne mencionis ta deci= do en sua lexiko, se olta vere existas? E pro quo Pesch donas la stranja de= fini citita en mea lasta mesajo? Se nur un de li erorabus, me povus kompren= ar. Ma la du?... < Camiel de Cock faliis trovar informi pri la vorti en lu= a listo B (pagino 19). Forsan lu ne havis omna necesa fonti od, en ula kazi= , simple "egaris" noti e vorti. Lu mencionis la raporto da Roze, ma ne inkl= uzis omna vorti oficala en ol. Pesch laboris dum triadek yari. Me ne savas= en qua cirkonstanci lu laboris, ma semble en tri landi, e forsan lu ne sem= pre havis apud su omna necesa fonti e noti. Homi facas erori, e me kredas k= e ta du homi tre probable facis erori. Exemple, Pesch (1964) donas "artilri= o" (pagino 42), malgre la fakto ke ta formo esis ja obsoleta nam remplasita= da "artilerio" en 1949 (segun de Cock, pagino 5). Pesch certe donas ula d= efini qui esas stranja por me. Tamen, lu semble ofte tradukis de Franca dic= ionario (forsan dicionario anciena!). Regardante en Franca dicionario, me t= rovas ye "p=E8re": "1. Homme qui a engendr=E9, qui a donn=E9=A0naissance = =E0=A0un ou plusieurs enfants." Preske same, se me bone komprenas ol, ma pl= u kurte, Pesch skribis: "Patro. I. La persono qua genitis filio." Forsan es= as remarkinda ke la Franca vorto "homme", quale la Angla vorto "man", esas = ambigua, nam ol havas la senci "homo" e "viro". On dicis a me ke Pesch red= aktis Idala revuo di bona qualeso. Me ne savas quanta libertempon Pesch hav= is o quante rapide lu mustis laborar dum la tempo posibla. Ka lu havis e tr= ansportis plu kam 9000 peci de papero por ordinar lua vortolisto? Ka lu uzi= s kayeri a qui on povas insertar plusa pagini? Sen *komputoro la tasko esas= plu desfacila. Quale vu povas vidar, la informo pri la vorto "patro" (sup= ozante ke on vere chanjis olua senco, quale me supozas) ne esas facile trov= ebla, se on serchas la vorto sen ja savar ube ol mencionesas. En la Raporto= da Roze, la vorti ne esas ordinita komplete alfabetale, e la vorto "patro"= ne esas mem kun la altra vorti komencanta per la sama litero. Rezume, me = povas komprenar ke du homi eroris per ne mencionar ta vorto. Esas altra pr= oblemi pri la defini di "patro" e "matro" da Pesch: "patro. I. La persono q= ua genitis filio. - II. (fig.) Titulo di veneraceso, respekteso. - III. Mem= bro di kongregaciono religiala (katolika). - EFIS" "matro. Patrino homa. (E= quivalanto sentimentala di "patrino".)" 1. Ka patro kom titulo di venerace= so, respekteso esas uzebla anke por muliero? 2. Ka femina membro di kongreg= aciono religiala anke esas, o povas esar, patro? 3. Pro quo lu adjuntis la = vorto "homa" definante matro, konsiderante ke lu definas patro kom (adminim= e) persono? 4. Pesch definas "filio" anke kom "persono ...". Ka animalo pov= as esar matro o patro o filio, adminime metafore/figure? Altrakaze, qua esa= s la vorti analoga por animali qui havas tala relati kun altra animali? Kad= on ne darfas dicar: "Yen du hundi. Ta esas la matro ed ica esas la filiino= "? Me supozas ke ni pensas plu longe pri ta poka vorti kam Pesch, ma il fo= rsan sentis bezono laborar tra preske dekamil vorti e finar lua verko ante = lua morto. Cornioley ya mortis ante finar lua vortaro. Me simpatias kun li= , nam nun me savas ke la laboro di vortaro-kompilanto semblas esar senfina.= Esas desfacila savar quante sorgoze e longe konsiderar singla vorto kande = on afrontas mili. Esas desfacila mantenar sama atitudo dum la hori di dio e= dum la sezoni. Nultempe esas sat multa hori. Kordiale, Robert. _________= _________ Goncalo Neves skribis: Kara Robert, >=A0Fortunoze, en la Rap= orto da Lektoro Janis Roze, lu raportis ye pagino 22: >=A0"L'Akademio admis= as ke patro esez uzata kom korespondanto mem sexuala di matro." >=A0Semblas= ke Roze citis de "Ofical Informilo", Numero 1, 31a marto 1928. La uzo di = 'admisar' en la supera frazo da Roze es tro ambigua (ordinare on admisas ul= u/ulo ad ulo). Me do ne es certa pri lo vizata da il: Kad il volis dicar k= e: a) L'Akademio agnoskas tala uzo e konsentas ad ol? b) L'Akademio permis= as tala uzo (forsan pro olua grandega difuzeso)? Omna-kaze 'admisar' ne es= 'decidar'. Mankas la decido-numero. Ka l'Akademio ya decidis o ne decidis?= O kad ol nur agnoskis o permisis? La afero, segun mea interpreto, ne ja es= tote klara. Samideani kun plu vasta libraro (forsan Neussner) devus sercha= r la citita numero di "ofical Informilo". E pro quo Camiel De Cock ne menc= ionis ta decido en sua lexiko, se olta vere existas? E pro quo Pesch donas = la stranja defini citita en mea lasta mesajo? Se nur un de li erorabus, me = povus komprenar. Ma la du?... Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1632 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41691 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2005 09:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2005 09:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2005 09:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.69.14 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2005 09:34:32 -0000 To: , Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:34:41 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c52b9d$b7795850$0e45fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20050317204615.80948.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Ka nova Ido-vorti astronomial? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057 X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Partaka Me nulakaze audacas propozar nova vorti se ja existas apta= vorti (mem plursenca) pro ke me ne esas linguisto nek astronomisto. Forsan= suficus uzar kompozita vorti astronomiala, olqui esas sat komprenebla e su= -explikiva: Hispana =96 Ido (Angulo de) ascensi=F3n =96 acens-angulo (An= gulo de) declinaci=F3n =96 deklin-angulo Tamaniere ni ne bezonas nova vort= i. Formo substantiva suficas. Salutin amikala sendas Fernando Tej= =F3n. -----Mensaje original----- De: Partaka [mailto:qualevist= andas@yahoo.es] Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 21:46 Para: IdoCat= alaOccitan@yahoogroups.com; linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [IdoCatalaO= ccitan] Ka nova Ido-vorti astronomial? Kordial saluto, Fernando! Segun= semblas, nulu ek ni savas suficante pri astronomio por diskutar favore la = konvenanteso inkluzar verbi qual "acensar" e "deklinar" en tal fako. Cetere= , ni omna semblas aceptir, ke Dyer e Pesch eroris pro inkluzir extra senco = astronomial che tal verbi komuna, olqui ja havas sua propra e tre diferant= a signifiko. Se yes, ili ya ne respektis la principo di unsenceso, e nun ni= devas agar prie. Se ni advere bezonas nova Ido-vorti astronomial, me supo= zas ke ni devas unesme propozar oli, e pose, oficaligar oli. Ni devas ya el= ektar le maxim exakta e konvenanta a nia linguo, nam ni mustas ne ri-erorar= . Ka ni do propozas "acensiono" e "deklinaciono" (o "deklinaco") kom simp= la substantivi, quin on darfas konvertar a verbi, se necese? Ka ni propozas= "acensionar" e "deklinacionar" (o "deklinacar")? Ka formi qual "acensumo" = e "deklinumo" ("acensumar" e "deklinumar") esus ne-konvenanta e do refuzind= a? Dicez a ni, kara Fernando, ka tu advere bezonas nur la formo substantiv= al, o anke olta verbal. E pose, forsan ni omna povos 'opinar' e decidar pri= ta du vorti astronomial. Por Ido e l'astronomio ipsa! P A R T A K A M= axim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/gr= oup/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________= ________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: =A1250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, = m=E1s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es Patrocinio de Yahoo! Grupos = _____ Enlaces a Yahoo! Grupos * Para visitar tu grupo en l= a web, accede a : http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ * = Para cancelar tu suscripci=F3n a este grupo, env=EDa un mensaje a: = IdoCatalaOccitan-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * El uso que ha= gas de Yahoo! Grupos est=E1 sujeto a las Condiciones del servicio de Yahoo!. [Non-text portions of this= message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1633 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4540 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2005 20:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2005 20:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2005 20:42:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 70837 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Mar 2005 20:42:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20050318204210.70835.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.44] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:42:10 CET Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:42:10 +0100 (CET) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000001c52b9d$b7795850$0e45fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: RE: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Ka nova Ido-vorti astronomial? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Oke, Fernando! Me tote konkordas pri tua decido ne propozar kom nova vorti astronomial' olti pri qui ni diskutabas. Per mea preirinta mesaji, me ya intencabis evitar, se posibla, l'adopto di ta nova formi. Pro lo me citabis la Dyer-dicionario ed olua diret aludo astronomial che l' verbi "acensar e deklinar". Tamen, nun apertesis nova question-pordo a me: Paro de mesaji (da Robert che Linguolisto, e da Jean Martignon che IdoCatalaOccitan) komprenigis da me, ke ne tote existas unsenceso en tre multa Ido-vorti. Tale, forsan ni devus ri-questionar ni tal afero... Kad esis nultempe total unsenceso en Ido? Kad ol existis, ma parte desaparis pos l'unesma yari? Kad ol donesas nur " kande posibla e konvenanta"? Kad ol es advere tote neposibla che linguo vivanta? Kand on lektas, exemple, che l' vorto "patro", olua tre diferanta (e mem kontrea) signifiki, on konkluzas, ke forsan ta famoz unsenceso es ya quaze neposibla o ne-konvenanta. Omno semblas indikar, ke ne nur kelka plursenceso, ma anke tre multa "sinonimeso" esos ya ne-evitebla en Ido, se vere reala e vivanta linguo. Me sincere ne savas, ka lo esos malajo o bonajo. Maxim amikal saluto! P A R T A K A --- Krayono skribis: > > Kara Partaka > > > > Me nulakaze audacas propozar nova vorti se ja > existas apta vorti (mem > plursenca) pro ke me ne esas linguisto nek > astronomisto. Forsan suficus > uzar kompozita vorti astronomiala, olqui esas sat > komprenebla e > su-explikiva: > > Hispana � Ido > > (Angulo de) ascensi�n � acens-angulo > > (Angulo de) declinaci�n � deklin-angulo > > Tamaniere ni ne bezonas nova vorti. > > Formo substantiva suficas. > > > > Salutin amikala sendas > > > > Fernando Tej�n. > > > > > > > > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Partaka [mailto:qualevistandas@yahoo.es] > Enviado el: jueves, 17 de marzo de 2005 21:46 > Para: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com; > linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Asunto: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Ka nova Ido-vorti > astronomial? > > > > Kordial saluto, Fernando! > > Segun semblas, nulu ek ni savas suficante pri > astronomio por diskutar favore la konvenanteso > inkluzar verbi qual "acensar" e "deklinar" en tal > fako. > Cetere, ni omna semblas aceptir, ke Dyer e Pesch > eroris pro inkluzir extra senco astronomial che tal > verbi komuna, olqui ja havas sua propra e tre > diferanta signifiko. Se yes, ili ya ne respektis la > principo di unsenceso, e nun ni devas agar prie. > > Se ni advere bezonas nova Ido-vorti astronomial, me > supozas ke ni devas unesme propozar oli, e pose, > oficaligar oli. Ni devas ya elektar le maxim exakta > e > konvenanta a nia linguo, nam ni mustas ne ri-erorar. > > Ka ni do propozas "acensiono" e "deklinaciono" > (o "deklinaco") kom simpla substantivi, quin on > darfas > konvertar a verbi, se necese? > Ka ni propozas "acensionar" e "deklinacionar" > (o "deklinacar")? > Ka formi qual "acensumo" e "deklinumo" ("acensumar" > e "deklinumar") esus ne-konvenanta e do refuzinda? > > Dicez a ni, kara Fernando, ka tu advere bezonas nur > la formo substantival, o anke olta verbal. > E pose, forsan ni omna povos 'opinar' e decidar pri > ta du vorti astronomial. > > Por Ido e l'astronomio ipsa! > > > P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1634 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43358 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 10:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 10:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.29) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 10:34:40 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 02:34:40 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.206 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:34:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <2005221214349.744078@SonyFX805> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:34:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2005 10:34:40.0421 (UTC) FILETIME=[41A45D50:01C52C6F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Me ne sequis tre atenceme la diskuti pri ca listo, ma yen mea komenti: bel/o es ulu bela (bel/ul/o o bel/in/o) cyan/a mustas esas cian/a (nam y es konsonanto, e cy ne es posibla grupo en Ido) decibel/o povas esar integra radiko hokey/o - me preferas hoki/o Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna >From: Robert >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: Linguolisto >Subject: [linguo] Nova vorti propozata (listo q1) >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:43:49 GMT > > >Yen listo q1 di 41 posibla nova vorti (ja mencionita hike antee) pronta por >decido, pri acepto o ne-acepto, da la Direktanta Komitato di ULI. > >Nun esas lasta invito komentar ante ofro dil vorti al DK. > >Multa altra nova vorti esas preparata. > >Robert. > > >A=angla; F=franca; G=germana; H=hispana; I=italiana; R=rusa; E=Esperanto; >L=latina >[tr]=transitiva; [ntr]=netransitiva; ~=tradukuro neexakta >Literi inter kramponi {TALE} esas privata noto pri fonto di Latina nomo > >*altokumulus.o [meteor.] >/ sorto di nubo (quale kumuluso, nimbo e.c.) / >A: altocumulus >F: altocumulus >G: Altocumulus, Haufenwolke >H: altoc�mulo, altoc�mulus >I: altocumulo >R: vjsokokuchyevoye oblako > >*altostrat.o [meteor.] >/ sorto di nubo / >A: altostratus >F: altostratus >G: Altostratus, hohe Schichtwolke >H: altoestrato, altostratus >I: altostrato >R: vjsokospoistoye oblako > >*bel.o [fiz.] >/ unajo di relativa son-intenseso; vid. anke *decibelo. La vorto esus >teorie >ambigua, ma extreme rare to povus esar problemo / >A: bel [phys.] >F: bel >G: Bel >H: bel, belio >I: bel >R: bel >E: belo > >*benzodiazepin.o [kem.] >/ medikamento quietigiva e dormigiva / >A: benzodiazepine >F: benzodiaz�pine >G: Benzodiazepin >H: benzodiazepina >I: benzodiazepina >R: byenzodiazyepin >E: benzodiazepino > >*bombix.o [insekto] >/ papiliono qua, kande vermatra, silkifas / >A: bombyx, silkworm or silkworm moth >F: bombyx >G: Seidenspinner >H: gusano de seda >I: bombice >R: shyelkopryad; shyelkovichny cherv' >E: bombikso >L: Bombyx (mori) > >*celest.o [muz.] >/ muzik-instrumento kun klavaro. Nomizita pro plu frua senco (A celestial, >F >c�leste e.c.) = "cielala" (amba senci) / >A: celesta, celeste >F: c�lesta >G: Celesta >H: celeste >I: celesta, celeste >R: celesta >E: celesto > >*Cheki.a [lando] >/ land-nomo, kontraste a stat-nomo (Cheka Republiko) - difero ofte >ignorata. >Simile: Sud-Afrika e Republiko di Sud-Afrika; Chinia e Republiko Populala >di >Chinia / >A: Czech Republic >F: R�publique tch�que >G: Tschechien, Tschechische Republik >H: la Rep�blica Checa >I: Repubblica c�ca >R: Cheshkaya Respublika >E: C^eh^io, C^eh^ujo, C^eh^a Respubliko > >*cyan.a [koloro] >/ koloro inter blua e verda, importanta teknikale. Dan: cyan; Ned: >blauwgroen, cyaan. Ja existas "ciano" kun altra senco / >A: cyan [colour] >F: cyan [bleu-vert] >G: Blaugruen >H: azul verdoso >I: ciano >R: cian > >*deci.bel.o [fiz. e.c.] >/ unajo di relativa son-intenseso, decimo di *belo; abreviuro: dB / >A: decibel >F: d�cibel >G: Dezibel >H: decibel, decibelio >I: decibel >R: dyecibyel >E: decibelo > >*dextros.o [kem.] >/ formo di glikoso / >A: dextrose >F: dextrose >G: Dextrose >H: dextrosa >I: destrosio >R: dekstroza >E: dekstroglukozo, dekstrozo* > >*dipol.o [fiz.] >/ du proxima egala ma kontrea "kargaji" elektrala o poli magnetala / >A: dipole [two close equal but opposite electric charges or magnetic poles] >F: dip�le [ensemble de deux charges �lectriques ou magn�tiques infiniment >voisines et de signes oppos�s] >G: Dipol [Physik] >H: dipolo >I: dipolo >R: dipol' >E: dipolo > >*dubni.o [elem.] >/ elem. kem. 105 (Db) / >A: dubnium >F: dubnium >G: Dubnium >H: dubnio >I: dubnio >R: dubniy >E: dubnio > >*Ege.a [mar.] >/ pri la maro e la insuli: *Egea maro [q.v.], *Egea insuli / >A: Aegean [sea, islands] >F: �g�e [mer], de la mer �g�e [�les] >G: �g�isch >H: egeo >I: egeo >R: egeyskiy >E: Egea > >*ekistik.o [cienco] >/ cienco pri homala koloniizo / >A: ekistics >F: �kistique >G: Ekistik >H: equ�stica, ekistica >I: echistica >R: ekistika > >*eskalator.o [aparato] >/ mashinala eskalero "rulanta" o "movanta" (ma ne qua rulas, o movas, de >loko a loko!) / >A: escalator >F: escalier roulant (ou) m�canique, escalator >G: Rolltreppe >H: escalera rodante / mec�nica / autom�tica >I: scala mobile >R: eskalator >E: ruls^tuparo > >*estr.o [zool.] >/ stando o fazo periodala di mamiferino kande fekunda; tale *estrala = A: >oestrous, estrous, F: oestral, H: estral / >A: oestrus, [US] estrus [heat, mammalian sexual impulse] >F: oestrus >G: Oestrus, Brunst >H: estro >I: estro (venereo), calore >R: tyechka >E: oestro > >*fosforit.o [min.] >/ mineralo / >A: phosphorite >F: phosphorite >G: Phosphorit >H: fosforita >I: fosforite >R: fosforit >E: fosforito > >*gaur.o [mamif.] >/ bovo sovaja di sud-Azia / >A: gaur >F: gaur >G: Gaur >H: gaur >I: gaur >R: gaur >E: gau`ro >L: Bos gaurus = Bos frontalis > >*geiser.o [geol.] >/ fonto naturala qua de tempo a tempo ekjetas aquo varmega e vaporo. Pri >alternative formo "geysero", la sistemo fonetikala di Ido ne permisas ol. / >A: geyser >F: geyser >G: Geiser >H: g�iser >I: geyser >R: geyzer >E: gejsero > >*geomorfologi.o [cienco] >/ cienco pri surfaco di Tero ed olua formi / >A: geomorphology, physical geography, physiography >F: g�omorphologie >G: Geomorphologie >H: geomorfolog�a >I: geomorfologia >R: gyeomorfologiya >E: geomorfologio > >*glamor.o >/ facino loganta; atraktiveso facinanta. Tale *glamoroza / >A: glamour, [US] glamor >F: glamour >G: Glamour; Glanz >H: glamour >I: glamour, fascino intenso >R: charj, charuyushchiye silj, volshyebstvo, sharm, ocharovaniye > >*guanak.o [mamif.] >/ animalo simila a lamao / >A: guanaco >F: guanaco >G: Guanako >H: guanaco [mam�fero] >I: guanaco [mammifero] >R: guanako >E: guanako >L: Lama guanicoe > >*hafni.o [elem.] >/ elemento kemiala 72 (Hf) / >A: hafnium >F: hafnium >G: Hafnium >H: hafnio >I: afnio >R: gafniy >E: hafnio > >*hematom.o [medic.] >/ sorto di intumecajo sangoza en tisuo / >A: haematoma, [US] hematoma >F: h�matome >G: Bluterguss, H�matom >H: hematoma >I: ematoma >R: gyematoma >E: hematomo > >*henri.o [mez.] >/ unajo elektrofizikala di indukto, nomita pro Joseph Henry / >A: henry >F: henry >G: Henry >H: Henrio >I: henry >R: Genriy >E: henro > >*hipertermi.o [patol.] >/ supernorma korpala temperaturo / >A: hyperthermia >F: hyperthermie >G: Hyperthermie >H: hipertermia >I: ipertermia >R: gipyertyermiya >E: hipertermio > >*hipokaust.o [arkit.] >/ anciena Romana aparato por varmigo di domo / >A: hypocaust >F: hypocauste >G: Hypokaustum >H: hipocausto >I: ipocausto >R: gipokaust >E: hipokausto > >*hipoklorit.o [kem.] >/ kemiajo / >A: hypochlorite >F: hypochlorite >G: Hypochlorit >H: hipoclorito >I: ipoclorito >R: gipokhlorit >E: hipoklorito > >*hipotalam.o [anat.] >/ parto di cerebro / >A: hypothalamus >F: hypothalamus >G: Hypothalamus >H: hipot�lamo >I: ipotalamo >R: gipotalamus >E: hipotalamo > >*hipotermi.o [patol.] >/ maladige subnorma korpala temperaturo / >A: hypothermia >F: hypothermie >G: Unterk�hlung, K�ltetod, Hyothermie >H: hipotermia >I: ipotermia >R: gipotermiya >E: hipotermio, algideco > >*histerektomi.o [medic.] >/ ablaciono di utero / >A: hysterectomy >F: hyst�rectomie >G: Hysterektomie >H: histerectom�a >I: isterectomia >R: gistyerektomiya, udalyeniye matki >E: uterektomio > >*hokey.o >/ sporto / >A: hockey >F: hockey >G: Hockey >H: hockey >I: hockey >R: khokkey >E: hokeo > >*ibex.o [mamif.] >/ mamifero simila a kapro / >A: ibex >F: bouquetin, ibex >G: Steinbock >H: �bex, �bice >I: stambecco >E: ibekso >L: Capra ibex > >*ideogram.o >/ simbolo qua reprezentas ideo o vorto, quale en skriburo chiniana / >A: ideogram, ideograph >F: id�ogramme >G: Ideogramm >H: ideograma >I: ideogramma >R: idyeogramma >E: ideogramo > >*ionosfer.o [meteor.] >/ alta strato di atmosfero / >A: ionosphere >F: ionosph�re >G: Ionosph�re >H: ionosfera >I: ionosfera >R: ionosfyera >E: jonosfero > >*kashu.o [bot.] >/ parto manjebla (*nuco) de arboro *anakardio / >A: cashew-nut >F: noix de cajou, noix de caju, noix d'acajou >G: Cashewnuss, Elefantenlaus >H: (nuez de) anacardo >I: noce (o nocciolina) di acagi� >R: kesh'yu >E: akaj^u-nukso, anakardio > >*Pakistan [lando] >A: Pakistan >F: Pakistan >G: Pakistan >H: Pakist�n, Paquist�n >I: Pakistan >R: Pakistan >E: Pakistano > >*reologi.o [cienco e.c.] >/ fiziko di fluo e formo di materio, specale viskozeso di fluidi / >A: rheology >F: rh�ologie >G: Rheologie >H: reolog�a >I: reologia >R: ryeologiya >E: reologio > >*Tahiti [lando] >/ tale "Tahiti-ana" (ne "Tahit-i" e "Tahit-ana"). Ni ja havas la vorti >"Haiti" e "Havayi" / >A: Tahiti >F: Tahiti >G: Tahiti >H: Tahit� >I: Tahiti >R: Taiti >E: Tahitio > >*Troy.a >/ urbo antiqua di Avan-Azia. Tale *Troy/an/a, -o / >A: Troy, Ilium >F: Troie, Ilion >G: Troja >H: Troya, Ili�n >I: Troia [citt�] >R: Troya >E: Trojo > >*Volg.a [river.] >/ fluvio, la maxim longa di Europa / >A: Volga >F: (la) Volga >G: Wolga >H: (r�o) Volga >I: (fiume) Volga >R: Volga >E: Volgo > >{FINO} > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1635 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99405 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 10:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 10:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 10:38:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 02:38:19 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.206 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:38:19 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 10:38:19 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2005 10:38:19.0715 (UTC) FILETIME=[C459F930:01C52C6F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: cian/o X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert cian/o -> cianogen/o* cyan/o* -> cian/o* Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1636 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo.neves@portugalmail.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49614 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 11:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 11:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 11:36:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 11:36:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 11:36:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:36:18 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200531722555.331822@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2214 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Fwd: Re: [linguo] Re: patro/matro (historiala studiuro) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218157330 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Yen kelka komenti pri vua mesajo. > Camiel de Cock faliis t= rovar informi pri la vorti en lua listo B (pagino 19). Forsan lu ne havis = omna necesa fonti od, en ula kazi, simple "egaris" noti e vorti. Lu mencio= nis la raporto da Roze, ma ne inkluzis omna vorti oficala en ol. Yes, suf= icas foliumar ta verko por konstatar ke il sbribis ol tro haste. Tamen ank= e la raporto da Roze es ulagrade konfuza. Lore la qualeso di nia akademian= i ne esis tam alta kam dum la ora epoko. Pluse, on subisis konstante la l= uro dal naturalismo, ta giganto argil-peda... > Pesch laboris dum triadek = yari. Me ne savas en qua cirkonstanci lu laboris, ma semble en tri landi, = e forsan lu ne sempre havis apud su omna necesa fonti e noti. Yes, on po= vas konstatar lo mem per sufarcala konsulto di nur kelka artikli. Anke il = laboris tro haste. E sen komputoro... > On dicis a me ke Pesch redaktis Id= ala revuo di bona qualeso. Yes: Mevuo. > Rezume, me povas komprenar ke d= u homi eroris per ne mencionar ta vorto. Yes, forsan vu es justa. > 1. K= a patro kom titulo di veneraceso, respekteso esas uzebla anke por muliero?= > 2. Ka femina membro di kongregaciono religiala anke esas, o povas esar,= patro? No. Se 'patro' es maskula (quale ni omna supozas), ol mustas esar = maskula en omna sua senci e subsenci. > 3. Pro quo lu adjuntis la vorto "= homa" definante matro, konsiderante ke lu definas patro kom (adminime) per= sono? > 4. Pesch definas "filio" anke kom "persono ...". Ka animalo povas = esar matro o patro o filio, adminime metafore/figure? Altrakaze, qua esas = la vorti analoga por animali qui havas tala relati kun altra animali? Kad = on ne darfas dicar: "Yen du hundi. Ta esas la matro ed ica esas la filiino= "? Evidente, la vorti 'patro, 'matro', 'filio', edc darfas esar aplikata = anke a bestii, same kam 'pedo', 'kapo', 'boko', 'unglo', edc, edc. > Me si= mpatias kun li, nam nun me savas ke la laboro di vortaro- kompilanto sembla= s esar senfina. Ho, yes, ol es laboro ne da un benediktano, ma da tota ku= vento! Tamen vua laboro ne exhaustesos en la limiti dil Angla, nam on povo= s uzar ol por produktar altra bilingua dicionarii, e mem bona monolingua I= do- dicionario. Kordiale, Gon=E7alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1637 Return-Path: X-Sender: goncalo.neves@portugalmail.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54412 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 12:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 12:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 12:21:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 12:21:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2005 12:21:34 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:21:02 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050318204210.70835.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1709 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Ka nova Ido-vorti astronomial? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218157330 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Partaka, > Kad esis nultempe total unsenceso en Ido? Nultempe. > K= ad ol existis, ma parte desaparis pos l'unesma yari? No. La developo esis = inversa. Nun ni juas plu vasta unasenceso kam dum l'unesma yari. > Kad = ol donesas nur " kande posibla e konvenanta"? Yes. > Kad ol es advere tot= e neposibla che linguo vivanta? Unasenceso absoluta es neposibla. Tala lin= guo ne povus vere funcionar. Unasenceso absoluta, se extensita til la limi= ti di lo absurda (tamen nur tale ol esus ya "absoluta"...), interdiktus di= car exemple =ABpedo di tablo=BB, =ABdorso di manuo=BB, edc, edc. No, adver= e tala linguo ne povus funcionar. Tamen... Tamen en Ido on juas unasence= so multe plu vasta kam en irge altra linguo en la mondo, artifical o natur= al, ed oportas konservar e kultivar tala qualeso di nia linguo, evidente s= en violacar la limiti di lo racional e konvenanta. Ne es facil egardar ta = limiti, nam li tote ne es ulo objektala od unanime aceptebla. Malgre to, o= portas dicernar la kazi ube nula konfundo es racionale expektebla (exempl= e: 'delino di vorto', 'deklino di astro') de altra kazi, pasable ofta en a= ltra lingui, ube konfundo povas eventar ed ya eventas, precipue kande la k= untexto ne es sat klara. Exemple, 'ilusi=F3n' en la Hispana signifikas 'il= uziono' ed 'entuziasmo', 'sankcii' en Esperanto signifikas 'sancionar' (t.= e. aprobar) e 'punisar' (du idei preske opozita!). Tala plurasenceso ne d= arfas havar plaso en Ido, nam ol povus grave obstruktar la fluo di idei e = pensi. > Kand on lektas, exemple, che l' vorto "patro", olua > tre difera= nta (e mem kontrea) signifiki La vorto 'patro' ne havas kontrea signifiki.= Ol es male definita da Pesch. Kordiale, Goncalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1638 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14132 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 22:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2005 22:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO miner.numericable.net) (80.236.3.113) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2005 22:45:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 10793 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2005 22:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by miner.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Mar 2005 22:45:10 -0000 Message-ID: <006001c52cd6$1484d400$bf60dc51@landloic> To: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:50:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: *referendo / plebicito X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Linguolistani, Til nun la vorto "plebicito" uzesas por tradukar la du= sequanta vorti : G: Volksabstimmung, plebiszit A: referendum, plebiscite= F: referendum, pl=E9biscite H: refer=E9ndum, plebiscito I: referendum, p= lebiscito P: referendo, plebiscito En Francia ma anke forsan en altra la= ndi, on parolas generale de "pl=E9bicite" kande la rezultajo di voto esas t= re majoritata. Do me preferus uzar la Portugala vorto "*referendo" vice= "plebicito" por tradukar la sequanta vorti: G: Volksabstimmung A: referen= dum F: referendum H: refer=E9ndum I: referendum P: referendo Semblas = a me ke *referendo esus tre idala vorto, do me propozas lo a vu. Amikale = Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1639 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97055 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2005 23:38:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2005 23:38:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2005 23:38:15 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8407437CE for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:13 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12606-02 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:02 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5A18652B7; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:01 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B84537CE for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:01 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:46:26 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050311194210.56137.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20050311194210.56137.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed ReSent-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:07:27 +1030 (CST) Resent-From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Resent-To: LinguoListo ReSent-Subject: Re: [linguo] Kun ReSent-Message-ID: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: Michael Talbot-Wilson From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Kun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Partaka, Ye Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Partaka skribis: > - Il sidis turnanta sua dorso a(d) (i)li > - Il sidis dum turnar sua dorso... Pri la duesma, me questionas (pro ke me ne savas) kad esas justa uzar tala gramatiko, "dum turnar", vice "dum ke lu turnas". Ad minime, ad Angla-parolanto, "dum turnar" esas leda uzado, ma lo povas esar pro ke la Angla ofte evitas la infinitivo ed uzas participulo [? me ne havas vortolibro hike] vicee. Pri la unesma, me konfesas ne komprenar kad uzar la adjektivo, pro ke il esis turninta viro, o la adverbo, pro ke il sidis turninte. Ma omnakaze me pensas ke la pasinta esas justa, pro ke, necese, il ja turnis (il ja esis turninta, il ja turnabis), se la altri lore regardis ilua dorso. Forsan, "Il sidis dorso-turninte ad ili." > Me ne savas, ka me esabas suficante konkreta e > justa dum pozar tal exempli, nam me intencabas nur > montrar kelk altra posibla voyi e solvuri. On konsilas en Ido, evitez komplexa pasinta formi a la grado posibla, pro ke esas idiotismo en kelka lingui tro multe parolar tale (o, diferanta lingui naturala diferante traktar tala gramatiko), ed altre-parolanti ne facile povas komprenar od amar la uzado. Do, en la Evangelio segun Lukas on trovas en la Angla: "He hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts." Ma en la tradukuro da Kauling on trovas: "Lu dispersis le superba kordie." (Vice, "Lu dispersabas ..." od "Lu esas dispersinta...") Do, posible, on chanjez vua frazo ad: "Me ne savas, ka me esis suficante konkreta e justa pozinte tal exempli, nam me intencis nur montrar kelk altra posibla voyi e solvuri." Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1640 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62533 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2005 23:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2005 23:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2005 23:38:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD52937CE for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:52 +1030 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12606-03 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:42 +1030 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0167252B7; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:40 +1030 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D404537CE for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:40 +1030 (CST) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:45:05 +1030 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <006001c52cd6$1484d400$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <006001c52cd6$1484d400$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 ReSent-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:08:15 +1030 (CST) Resent-From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Resent-To: LinguoListo ReSent-Subject: Re: [linguo] *referendo / plebicito ReSent-Message-ID: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-eGroups-From: Michael Talbot-Wilson From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] *referendo / plebicito X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Loic, Ye 19 Mar 2005, Loic Landais skribis: > > Kara Linguolistani, = > > Til nun la vorto "plebicito" uzesas por tradukar la du sequanta vorti := > G: Volksabstimmung, plebiszit > A: referendum, plebiscite > F: referendu= m, pl=E9biscite > ... > > En Francia ma anke forsan en altra landi, on paro= las generale de > "pl=E9bicite" kande la rezultajo di voto esas tre majori= tata. En Australia, A. "referendum" significas plebicito alte importanta q= ua povas postular chanjar la bazala lego (A. "constitution") di la federur= o. A. "plebiscite" signifikas ula plebicito qua ne havas povo postular ta= la chanjo. Me opinionas ke esas mala adportar aden Ido vorti qui diferas n= ur per nuanco, nur pro ke omna li existas en kelka naturala lingui. Me op= inionas ke "plebicito" suficas pri Ido, e ke on povas plu detale parolar s= e on volas montrar certena nuanco. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson [Non-t= ext portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1641 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91595 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2005 21:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2005 21:24:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2005 21:24:33 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.10.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.10] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DDUNz-000Adt-Dk for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:24:31 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:27:32 GMT Message-ID: <2005321212732.482011@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <006001c52cd6$1484d400$bf60dc51@landloic> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] *referendo / plebicito X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Loic, Semblas a me ke *referendumo esus preferinda, ne nur pro ke la = radiko esas plu internaciona, ma anke pro ke referendo esas ja ulo, irgo re= fer-end-a. Tamen, ka vu povas klarigar exakte quale *referend(um)o diferus= de plebicito? Me ne komprenas vua vorti, "En Francia ma anke forsan en al= tra landi, on parolas generale de [pri] "pl=E9bi[s]cite" kande la rezultajo= di voto esas tre majoritata". Kad on mustas savar quale la populo votos po= r savar kad esas fakte plebicito? Kad esas difero inter la (moderna) senci= dil du vorti? Mea Angla-Germana vortolibro donas: A plebiscite =3D G Pleb= iszit, Volksentscheid A referendum =3D G Volksentscheid, Referendum G Volks= abstimmung =3D A plebiscite G Volksentscheid =3D A referendum G Plebiszit = =3D A plebiscite G Referendum =3D A referendum Kordiale, Robert. P.S. Ne= "Portugala" ma "Portugalana". ________________ Loic Landais skribis: K= ara Linguolistani, Til nun la vorto "plebicito" uzesas por tradukar la du = sequanta vorti : G: Volksabstimmung, plebiszit A: referendum, plebiscite F:= referendum, pl=E9biscite H: refer=E9ndum, plebiscito I: referendum, plebis= cito P: referendo, plebiscito En Francia ma anke forsan en altra landi, on= parolas generale de "pl=E9bicite" kande la rezultajo di voto esas tre majo= ritata. Do me preferus uzar la Portugala vorto "*referendo" vice "plebicit= o" por tradukar la sequanta vorti: G: Volksabstimmung A: referendum F: refe= rendum H: refer=E9ndum I: referendum P: referendo Semblas a me ke *referen= do esus tre idala vorto, do me propozas lo a vu. Amikale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1642 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75655 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2005 21:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2005 21:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2005 21:49:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2005 21:48:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2005 21:48:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:48:07 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2891 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Partaka" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Michael! --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: > Kara Partaka, > > Ye Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Partaka skribis: > > > - Il sidis turnanta sua dorso a(d) (i)li > > - Il sidis dum turnar sua dorso... > > Pri la duesma, me questionas (pro ke me ne savas) kad esas justa uzar tala > gramatiko, "dum turnar", vice "dum ke lu turnas". Ad minime, ad > Angla-parolanto, "dum turnar" esas leda uzado, ma lo povas esar pro ke la > Angla ofte evitas la infinitivo ed uzas participulo [? me ne havas > vortolibro hike] vicee. Me sincere anke ne savas de ube ni prenis expresuri talsorta, nome "dum turnar", nam oli ya es anke stranja a lingui quala la Hispana, la Kataluna, la Franca ed irg altra idiomo Latinida, segun me kredas. Tamen, omno semblas indikar, ke tal expresuri es tote justa en Ido. > Pri la unesma, me konfesas ne komprenar kad uzar la adjektivo, pro ke il > esis turninta viro, o la adverbo, pro ke il sidis turninte. Ma omnakaze > me pensas ke la pasinta esas justa, pro ke, necese, il ja turnis (il ja > esis turninta, il ja turnabis), se la altri lore regardis ilua dorso. Mea mesajo ipsa montras ke, cakaze, mea sol intenco esis prizentar diversa voyi per konstruktar frazi evitanta l' prepoziciono "kun". Do, ta detaleti, quin tu jus komentabas, semblas interesiva por posa reflekto. Nur Eduardo savas' quale il imaginas, "exakte", tal od irg altra ceno. > Forsan, "Il sidis dorso-turninte ad ili." > > > Me ne savas, ka me esabas suficante konkreta e > > justa dum pozar tal exempli, nam me intencabas nur > > montrar kelk altra posibla voyi e solvuri. > > On konsilas en Ido, evitez komplexa pasinta formi a la grado posibla, pro > ke esas idiotismo en kelka lingui tro multe parolar tale (o, diferanta > lingui naturala diferante traktar tala gramatiko), ed altre-parolanti ne > facile povas komprenar od amar la uzado. > > Do, en la Evangelio segun Lukas on trovas en la Angla: > > "He hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts." > > Ma en la tradukuro da Kauling on trovas: > > "Lu dispersis le superba kordie." > > (Vice, "Lu dispersabas ..." od "Lu esas dispersinta...") > > Do, posible, on chanjez vua frazo ad: > > "Me ne savas, ka me esis suficante konkreta e justa pozinte tal exempli, > nam me intencis nur montrar kelk altra posibla voyi e solvuri." Segun me, existas certena nuanco tempal inter mea frazo original ed olta qua rezultabas de tua chanjiguro: Formi finanta per -abas, sugestas ke l'ago eventabas plu recente kam olti qui finas per -is. Por exemplo: "Ka tu lektis la letro?"... "Yes, me lektis ol" (ulfoye, ultempe, me lektis ol) "Ka tu lektabas la letro?"... "Yes, me lektabas ol" (jus, recente) Irgakaze, tua/mea frazo semblas a me tote korekta; same kam la mea. > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson Danko pro tua intereso, Michael! P A R T A K A From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1643 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4561 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 00:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2005 00:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO miner.numericable.net) (80.236.3.113) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2005 00:19:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19332 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 00:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by miner.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Mar 2005 00:19:13 -0000 Message-ID: <004d01c52e75$8d63b3a0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <2005321212732.482011@SonyFX805> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 01:24:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] *referendo / plebicito X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Robert, Vu esas justa, me oblivis la sufixo -end. Do la portugalana vorto "referendo" ne konvenas. Do *referendumo esus preferinda. Kun la tradukilo SYSTRAN uzebla per http://trans.voila.fr/voila me trovis : [G] Volksabstimmung [A] Popular vote [F] R�f�rendum [G] Volksentscheid [A] Popular vote [F] R�f�rendum Me konstatas ke la lingui GAFHIP havas la du sequanta vorti quan Ido tradukas per peblicito : G: Volksabstimmung, plebiszit A: referendum, plebiscite F: referendum, pl�biscite H: refer�ndum, plebiscito I: referendum, plebiscito P: referendo, plebiscito En Francia la vorto "pl�biscite" uzesas generale kande la rezultajo di ula voto esas tre majoritata . Se la rezultajo di *referendumo pri europana konstituco esus 70 % por la YES (o same por la NO) on dicus ke ca *referendumo esis peblicito por la konstituco o ke la konstituco peblicitesis. Me ne savas por altra landi qua esas la difero inter la (moderna) senci dil du vorti ma forsan altra idisti povus dicar lo ? Saluti de Bretonia Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert" � : Envoy� : lundi 21 mars 2005 22:27 Objet : Re: [linguo] *referendo / plebicito Kara Loic, Semblas a me ke *referendumo esus preferinda, ne nur pro ke la radiko esas plu internaciona, ma anke pro ke referendo esas ja ulo, irgo refer-end-a. Tamen, ka vu povas klarigar exakte quale *referend(um)o diferus de plebicito? Me ne komprenas vua vorti, "En Francia ma anke forsan en altra landi, on parolas generale de [pri] "pl�bi[s]cite" kande la rezultajo di voto esas tre majoritata". Kad on mustas savar quale la populo votos por savar kad esas fakte plebicito? Kad esas difero inter la (moderna) senci dil du vorti? Mea Angla-Germana vortolibro donas: A plebiscite = G Plebiszit, Volksentscheid A referendum = G Volksentscheid, Referendum G Volksabstimmung = A plebiscite G Volksentscheid = A referendum G Plebiszit = A plebiscite G Referendum = A referendum Kordiale, Robert. P.S. Ne "Portugala" ma "Portugalana". From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1644 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69476 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 20:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2005 20:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly01.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.211) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2005 20:41:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 4460 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 20:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly01.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 22 Mar 2005 20:41:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 10060 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 20:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.178]) ([195.23.194.178]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 22 Mar 2005 20:41:24 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.7.2]); Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:45:57 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c52f20$26275ce0$b2c217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:31:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara listani, Recente on itere pulsis al areno la problemo dil verboformo = -abas. Me supozas ke me ne ja prizentis mea opiniono pri la afero. Nu, mea = opiniono es simpla. Ta verboformo es tote absurda e pekas duople kontre la = principo di unasenceso. Me montrez exemplo: "la puero lektabas libro" Nu,= la adheranti ed uzanti dil verboformo -abas afirmas ke ol indikas tempo re= cente pasinta. Quon do povus signifikar la supera frazo "me lektabas libro"= ? Pro ke la vorti 'la', 'puero' e 'libro' produktas nula dubito, me analize= z nur la formo 'lektabas'. Ol kompozesas da tri elementi: lekt (radiko) + = ab (sufixo) + as (dezinenco) Segun la principo di unasenceso, irga radiko,= sufixo, prefixo o dezinenco mantenas sua senco en irga kompozita vorto. = Ni analizez la tri elementi: a) La radiko 'lekt': Ne oportas facar grand= a mental gimnastiko por konstatar ed agnoskar ke la radiko 'lekt' mantenas = sua senco en la supera vorto. Irge quale on interpretos la tempeso di 'lekt= abas', 'lekt' sempre montros la sama ago. Nula peko hike. b) La sufixo 'ab= ': Quon signifikas ta sufixo? Ol indikas anteeso relate altra ago o stando= . Ol do es ulasorta komparanta sufixo verbal. Yen du exempli: "Kande el ar= ivis, il departabis" (anteeso en tempo pasinta) "Kande el arivos, il depar= tabos" (anteeso en tempo futura) "Se me lektabus la libro, me nun respondu= s a vu" (anteeeso en tempo eventuala) En la unesma frazo on komparas du ag= i (arivar e departar) eventinta. En la duesma on komparas du agi (arivar e = departar) eventonta. En la triesma on komparas du agi (lektar e respondar) = posibla, eventuala. En omna exempli parolesas pri komparo inter du agi. Adv= ere on povas parolar pri anteeso nur kande on komparas adminime DU agi. Nu= , me retrovenez al analizata frazo: "la puero lektabas libro". Ube es la DU= agi, por ke on povez komparar li? Me trovas nur la ago lektar. Ube es l'an= teeso? Me vidas nula. Advere, on bezonas adminime DU agi por expresar antee= so. Konkluze, en la vorto 'lektabas' la sufixo 'ab' signifikas ulo altra k= am anteeso. Ol do pekas kontre la principo di unasenceso. Unesma peko! c= ) La dezinenco 'as': Omna Idisto savas ke la dezinenco 'as' indikas tempo = prezenta. Omna docolibro klare montras lo, e nultempe aparis dubito pri to.= 'as' expresas ago o stando prezenta, same kam 'is' indikas ago pasinta e '= os' montras ago futura. Negar lo esus renversar la tota sistemo verbal di I= do. Me supozas ke nulu deziras tala kulbuto. Nu, se 'as' povas expresar nu= r ago o stando prezenta, to signifikas ke 'lektabas' - irge quale on analiz= as la rolo dil sufixo 'ab'! - povas indikar nur la prezento dil ago lektar.= Or la signifiko quan on volas atribuar a 'abas' (=ABago recente pasinta= =BB) tote violacas tal principo, nam =ABago recente pasinta=BB duras esar p= asinta e nule povas esar prezenta. Konkluze, en la vorto 'lektabas' la dez= inenco 'as' signifikas ulo altra kam prezento. Ol do pekas kontre la princi= po di unasenceso. Duesma peko! Se en la vorto 'lektabas' la sufixo 'abas= ' signifikas ulo altra kam anteeso e la dezinenco 'as' signifikas ulo altra= kam prezento, la vorto pekas dufoye kontre la principo di unasenceso e do = es sensenca, absurda e repulsenda. Evidente la sama analizo es aplikebla ad= irga vorto '...abas', od altradice, al verboformo 'abas' entote. 'abas' = NE havas plaso en Ido. Ol ne nur grave e duople violacas la principo di una= senceso, ma anke komplikas nia limpida sistemo verbal - sen ula avantajo, s= en ula gano, sen ula richigo. On rilektez, atencez e bone merkez la saja = vorti da K. Feder: =ABOportas atencigar ke la formo -abas ne existas, ma n= ur la formi -abis, -abos, -abus (Dec. 407, IV 321; Dec. 784, V 721). L'Akad= emio ne adoptis la formo -abas pro ke ol povus konsideresar kom perfekto da= uni, kom imperfekto da altri, segun la nacional kustumo. On rilektez la de= taloza expliko pri to en Progre. I 556.=BB (Mondo, 1922, p. 30) Kordiale, = Gon=E7alo Neves ---------- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Ch= ecked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Relea= se Date: 11-03-2005 = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1645 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22444 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2005 21:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2005 21:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2005 21:12:22 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.190.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.190] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DDqfl-000CQQ-50; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:12:21 +0000 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:14:57 GMT Message-ID: <2005322211457.635230@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <000001c52e28$d95011c0$657ba8c0@ucgkf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [ido] Arozar/aspersar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Kevin, Saluto pos multa yari! Esas bona konstatar ankorfoye ke pos d= eparto dum plura yari vu recente arivis inter ni. Yes, oportas stabiligar = Ido [ube necesa]. La diskuto esis pri e pro ta bezono, nam prezente uzanti = di la vortolibri da Dyer, ed uzanti di altra vortolibri, riskas miskompreno= pro la diferi inter la senci donita ad "aspersar" (e kelka altra vorti) en= la vortari. La fakto regretinda esas ke dum longa tempo Idisti facis (pres= ke?) nulo pri la problemo. De altra vidpunto, omna vortolibri kontenas ero= ri, quale skribis Goncalo recente. Do, kande on facas nova vortaro, oportas= deskovrar erori ed eliminar li tam bone kam on povas. Pri *komput..., me = konfesas ke me longe hezitas pri ol, pro du motivi. Un, pri necerteso pri = ka ni bezonas nur nomo dil aparato, od anke verbo, *komputar, por deskripta= r la aktiveso (exemple: "Fako di *Komputo", "*rezulto komputita" e "lu hava= s poka savo pri *komputili, ma multa savo pri *komputado). Du, pro la prop= ozo da Richard pri nova sufixo "-or-", per qua ni povus havar *komput/ar e = *komput/or/o. Me intencis studiar la posibla utileso di tala sufixo, ma ank= ore ne facis to. Quanta vorti existanta esus apte derivebla per "-or-"? Qua= nta nova vorti? Forsan ulu altra volus studiar ol e raportar a ni en la apt= a forumo, Linguolisto. Kordiale, Robert. __________________ kjford@allst= ream.net skribis: Kara samideani: =A0 Me lektis kun kelka konsterno la rece= nta mesaji pri 'arozar' ed 'aspersar'. Kad Ido es vera linguo o nura "lingu= o-projeto"?=A0 Me anke saveskis recente ke ni ankore ne havas oficala vorto= por "komputero" (komputoro? komputilo?). Kad esas posibla?. Quale ni povos= persuadar la homaro adoptar Ido se mem la adheranti ankore mustas tale dis= kutar?=A0Se ni volas ke homi adoptez nia linguo, oportas stabiligar ol. Me = recevos kun intereso vua komenti. =A0 Kevin Ford=A0 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1646 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48649 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 09:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2005 09:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly06.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.216) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 09:31:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 11851 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 09:31:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly06.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 09:31:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 21352 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 09:31:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.180.108]) ([195.23.180.108]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 09:31:38 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.7.2]); Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:36:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c52f8b$c5c1cfe0$6cb417c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:28:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: arozar/aspersar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Yen mea komenti pri vua mesajo aparinta en Idolisto. I) arozar/aspersar Nia dicionarii es tro konfuza pri ca temo. Yen mea analizo. Existas du manieri humidigar planti od altra objekti: a) Per gutopa varso di aquo o di altra liquido. b) Per plu o min kontinua varso di aquo o di altra liquido. 1) Por la unesma metodo Ido disponas la verbo 'aspersar'. Yen exempli: a) agrokultivisti aspersas arbori ed altra planti per pestocidili, fungocidili, edc, por preventar O kombatar morbo o plago [ne nur por preventar!] b) sacerdoti aspers(et)as ekleziani e sakraji per benedikita aquo c) on ofte aspers(et)as linji ante repasar li d) florvendisti ofte aspers(et)as la flori ante livrar li al klienti e) kuafisti ordinare lavas la hararo di sua klienti ante kuafar o rekortar ol, ma pose dum la kuafo o rekorto li ofte mustas aspers(et)ar ol por mantenar ol humid(et)a e tale faciligar la laboro Quale on povas konstatar segun la supera exempli, on povas aspersar plu o min granda quanto de liquido. Lo importanta e distingiva di aspergo es ne la quanto de varsata liquido ma la maniero varsar ol: gutope. Por precizigar la versata quanto on povas rekursar al kustumal sufixi: aspersetar, aspersegar. Equivalanti en kelka nacionala lingui: A sprinkle, spray [la duesma mankas che Dyer!] F bassiner, asperger I spruzzare, schizzare, aspergere H rociar, asperjar P borrifar, aspergir [F asperger, I aspergere, H asperjar, P aspergir (qui havas la sama etimologio kam Io aspersar) uzesas precipue en religiala kontexti, segun mea savo] Quale Pesch e Dyer tratas la verbo 'aspersar'? Male. a) Yen Pesch: �Humidigar ye kelka guti.�. Mala defino. Aspersante on povas ya humidigar per multa guti, tamen sempre gutope. Lo importanta es ne la quanto de guti ma la varso-maniero: se on varsas gutope, on aspergas, mem se on varsas multa guti. b) Yen Dyer: �On aspersas planti ed arbori por preventar ula maladeso. Asperso relatas maladeso, arozo relatas saneso.� Mala defino. Me supozas ke Dyer nur kopiis la expliko aparinta en Progreso (IV-353), nam il mencionas ta referenco fine dil artiklo. Do forsan il kulpas ne pro skribir eroroza defino ma "nur" pro kopiir ol. On do blamez la saji qui inventis tala defino e la saji qui haste aprobis ol. Saji ofte havas grava problemo: li vivas cirkondita da libri e rare turnas la kapo por observar la naturo e la vivo di ne-saji. Qui inventis ed aprobis tala defino certe nultempe kompris flori, nultempe vidis agrokultivisto aspersar planti, nultempe repasis linji, e forsan mem dormis o lektis jurnalo dum lia kuafisto aspersis lia hararo por rekortar ol. Yen la problemo. "Librozi" e teoriemi tre saja ma poke praktikala, qui ne egardas la realaji e la bezoni dil omnadia vivo. Kara Robert, gardez vu kontre dicionariisti ed apertez la okuli por observar la vivo e la naturo. Nur tale vu povos evitar lia erori. 2) Por la duesma metodo (plu o min kontinua varso di aquo o di altra liquido) Ido disponas la verbo 'arozar'. Yen exempli: a) la gardenisto apertis la robineto dil *hoso [flexebla aquo-tubo] ed arozis sua oranjieri b) la koquisto arozis la rostita dindo-gambo per ecelanta vino A water, wet F arroser I annafiare, innafiare, H/P regar Quale Pesch e Dyer tratas la verbo 'arozar'? Male. Yen Pesch: �Humidigar per varsar liquido gutope, imitante roso.� Mala defino: to es la defino di 'aspersar'! Pesch (o la autoro quan il tradukis) butis sur la etimologio di F arroser (< L ros/roris "roso"). Tamen F 'arroser' (e konseque Io 'arozar', qua venas de ol) ne plus havas relato kun roso. Etimologio ofte es trompiva, e lexikografi devus egardar ol tre prudente, mem tre cirkonspekte. Regretinde, ne nur en la tempo di Pesch ma ankore nun, multa lexikografi preferas egardar unesme la fosila latero di analizata vorti (etimologio, klasiki, edc) e nur duesme (o mem nultempe) olia aktuala e fresha elemento. Yen Dyer: �Asperso relatas maladeso, arozo relatas saneso.� Ta strikta interpreto, rigore egardata, interdiktus dicar exemple: �la banditi arozis la kadavro per gazolino e brulis ol�... Pluse, Dyer rekursas nur a exemplo-frazo del biblo, vice uzar frazi del vivo omnadia. Me supozas ke komuna lektero komprenus plu facile exemplo-frazi pri arozo di flori edc, kam mencioni pri nia arkipatro Noa... >Prezente mea intenco esas skribar tale: aroz-ar to wet [with any liquid], water, hose aroz-eg-ar to drench, soak aroz-et-ar to moisten, dampen aspers-ar to sprinkle [with a liquid] Me konsentas. Tamen ne obliviez adjuntar 'spray' kom apta tradukuro di 'aspersar'. >En singla kazo kompilanto di nova vortaro mustas decidar quon facar. Per experienco me lernas praktike ke kompilo di vortaro esas afero di multa kompromisi. Me plene asentas ca vorti. > Se me explorus e diskutus omna vorto problemoza quale nun, me facus la progreso di heliko. Altralatere, esos kazi tante problemoza ke me mustos demandar helpo. Sendubite. Vu sempre povos demandar mea helpo. II) Pri 'baleno': > Yen altra exemplo ube me ne konsentas kun Dyer qua donas simple: "balen-o: whale" sen qualifiko. Tamen, se baleno = F baleine (quale dicas latra vortari), A whale nur parte koincidas kun baleno. Semblas a me ke F baleine = A baleen whale, whalebone whale. La Angla "whale" esas koncepto qua inkluzas ne nur la baleni ma anke la "toothed whales" (granda dentoza mamiferi aquala). Tote juste vu judikas. La signifiko-agro di A 'whale' es plu ampla kam la signifiko-agro di F baleine, I balena, H ballena, P baleia. Kelkfoye, segun la kuntexto, kande me bezonas tradukar A 'whales' al Portugalana, me mustas rekursar al vorto 'cet�ceos' ("cetacei"), vice 'baleias' ("baleni"). Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1647 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70971 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 11:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2005 11:59:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly02.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.212) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 11:59:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 18382 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 11:59:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly02.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 11:59:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7842 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 11:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.215]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 11:59:05 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.7.2]); Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:42:23 +0000 Message-ID: <007b01c52f9d$611d2c80$6cb417c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:30:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Vu skribis: �Du, pro la propozo da Richard pri nova sufixo "-or-", per qua ni povus havar *komput/ar e *komput/or/o. � Pri l'adopto di nova sufixi ni devas esar tre cirkonspekta ed egardar omna posibla avantaji e desavantaji, parstudiar omna lateri dil problemo ante facar decido. Se ni bezonus nova sufixo por indikar mashini ed aparati (me ne ja es certa ke ni bezonas ol), la sufixo -ator esus forsan plu apta kam -or. La unesma ja trovesas en la linguo, "celita" exemple en la sequanta vorti integra : akumulator/o aspirator/o elevator/o karburator/o kondensator/o radiator/o transformator/o ventilator/o On povus egardar ta vorti kom vera derivuri del rispektiva verbi: akumul/ar => akumul/ator/o aspir/ar => aspir/ator/o elev/ar => elev/ator/o karbur/ar => karbur/ator/o kondens/ar => kondens/ator/o radi/ar => radi/ator/o transform/ar => transform/ator/o ventil/ar => ventil/ator/o Do, la sufixo -ator ja existas en nia linguo, quankam celite e neoficale. On povus nomizar ol 'pseudo-sufixo' . Se ni adoptus ol kom "vera" (t.e. produktiva) sufixo, e se ni admisus la radiko 'komput', ni povus formacar: komput/ar komput/ist/o komput/ey/o komput/ator/o komput/ator/iz/ar (exemple: "ni mustas komputatorizar nia kontoro") Tamen me dubitas ka la radiko 'komput' es vere necesa. Pro quo e por quo ni bezonas la verbo 'komputar'? Ni evitez subisar senpondera influo da nia mifrati, qui ya havas 'komput/i, komput/il/o'. Se ni adoptus 'komputoro' (ja uzata) kom integra vorto, ni povus formacar: komputor/ist/o komputor/ey/o komputor/iz/ar Se ni adoptus la sufixo -ator, ni quik remarkus ke ol es tre produktiva. Yen kelka exempli: ampl/a => ampl/ig/ar => ampl/ig/ator/o exkav/ar => exkav/ator/o falch/ar => falch/ator/o kompres/ar => kompres/ator/o kov/ar => kov/ator/o Forsan es interesanta observar la konduto dal Espisti relate la (pseudo)sufixo -ator. En 'Plena Ilustrita Vortaro' (1970) Waringhien definis ol ne kom sufixo ma kom �vorfino�. Il adjuntis atencinda remarko (me tradukis ad Ido): �-atoro e la Espal sufixo -ilo ne es justa sinonimi: la duesma ordinare rezervezas por simpla implementi, dum ke -atoro montras plu komplexa aparato o mashino funcionanta plu o min automate . Generale la vorti kun -atoro postulas aparta trakto, ma kande la radiko ipsa ja es Espal vorto, -atoro aparas kom teknikal pseudosufixo.� En 2002 aparis 'La Nova Plena ilustrita Vortaro', multe plu konservema kam la unesma. Ol definas -ator kom sufixo signifikanta �mashino od aparato qua produktas ago partikulara�. Ol adjuntas la exemplo �transform~o� ma anke la remarko �-ilo es preferinda�... Se on demandus mea judiko, me devus dicar: 1) Me preferas adoptar 'komputoro' kom vorto integra (nam me tote ne vidas la neceseso dil verbo 'komputar'). 2) Me judikas kom utila adoptar (adminime dum proboperiodo pasable longa) la sufixo -ator (ne -or) kun la sequanta signifiko: "mashino od aparato funcionanta plu o min automate e produktanta ago partikulara, indikata dal radiko". Tamen on devus unesme explorar l'anciena yarali di Progreso e di Mondo, por vidar kad on ja diskutis ca sufixo. Kordiale, Gon�alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1648 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19356 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 03:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 03:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.187) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 03:23:39 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050324032338.ZFJP11967.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:23:38 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.135] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050324032338.EKLO22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:23:38 +1200 To: Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:23:38 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050324032338.EKLO22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Gon=E7alo, Itere ni lektas vua utilta komenti pri vorti en nia linguo.= Per respondo: 1. Yes, juste Ido ne bezonas nova sufixo =93-oro=94 e ja ni = havas multa, ofte teknikala vorti kun finalo =93-ator=94. Tamen hodie, vort= i aparas, ofte de angla, kun la sufixo =93-er=94 kun la senco di moyeno o= mashino qua efektigas certena tasko. En Ido ni ne povas uzar =93-ero=94 (t= a finalo havas altra senco) ma =93-oro=94 esas havebla e similesas H: =93-= or=94 e F: =93-eur=94. Do: A: computer, Ido: *komputoro. A: printer, Ido= : *imprimoro. A: scanner, Ido: *skanoro. A: router, Ido: *voyoro. A: dr= iver, Ido *pulsoro, edc. Anke ni forsan havus *recevoro, *tornoro, *tran= choro, *bororo, pro ke hodie tala implementi guvernesas per elektronikala o= *komputorala moyeno. 2. Konseque Ido bezonas la vorto *komputar. Kalkular = =3D efektigar matematikala kalkulo per manuo o la mento. *Komputar =3D efe= ktigar kalkulo od altra tasko per *komputoro, qua anke povas uzar altra pro= grami e havas memoro por konservar dokumenti. 3. L=92existanta sufixo =93-i= lo=94 nun signifikas ta imple-menti quin on uzas per manuo quale segilo, sk= rub-tornilo, mezurilo edc. (Ido ja havas raboto, levero, martelo, kultelo).= Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Goncalo Neves" > Date: 2005/03/23 Wed PM 11:30:26 GMT+12:00 > To: "Linguolisto" > Subject: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or > > [Non-te= xt portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1649 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42866 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 07:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 07:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.20) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 07:27:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n12.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2005 07:26:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Mar 2005 07:26:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:26:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002c01c52f20$26275ce0$b2c217c3@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3450 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Gon=E7alo, Me esas un de ti qui ofte uzas la formo -abas (od alterna= tive: esas - inta). Tamen, me ne pensas pri olu kom signifikanta "tempo rec= ente pasinta", ma fakte kom "ago pasinta (recente o ne recente) qua ulama= niere relatas la tempo prezenta". Tale olu uzesas adminime en la Angla (ex= .: "I've loved, I've laughed and cried": Me amorabas, me ridabas e ploraba= s - parto de la kansono "My Way", qua rakontas la experienco di vivo di ho= mo balde mortonta), ed en ula regioni Hispane- parolanta (ma ne exemple en = Arjentinia). Segun mea kompreno, la difero inter: 1.- "la puero lektis li= bro" e 2.- "la puero lektabas libro", esas ke en la exemplo (1) onu apen= e expresas fakto eventinta en ula tempo pasinta ed onu volas atencigar la = fakto ipsa; dum ke en l'exemplo (2) onu sugestas ke ulamaniere la ago indi= kata havas konsequaji perceptebla en la tempo prezenta. Exemple, se "la pu= ero lektabas libro" OLIM, on povas NUN konkluzar ke lu savas lektar, o ke = lu esas skolano, edc. Ne importas advere la fakto ipsa ke lu lektis, ne i= mportas imaginar lu sidanta kun la libro en sua manui, ma on invitesas ima= ginar quale la tempo nuna povus esar diferanta kaze ke ta fakto (la lekto)= ne eventabus. > Nu, me retrovenez al analizata frazo: "la puero lektabas= libro". Ube es la DU agi, por ke on povez komparar li? Me trovas nur la a= go lektar. Ube es l'anteeso? Me vidas nula. Advere, on bezonas adminime D= U agi por expresar anteeso. Ido ya nomas ta tempi verbala kom tempi "antea= ". La questiono esas do: "antea" kompare a quo? Ta tempi montras ulo qua e= ventis ante altra kozo, ulamaniere kondicionanta la kozo posa. Por la pasi= nto antea e por la futuro antea, oportas klare establisar quo esas ta koz= o posa, ed olca do establisesas kom ago pasinta o futura, o mem kom simpla= tempo-indikilo pasinta o futura: "Ante minokto, me ja departabis", "Morge= ye 8 kloki, me ja vekabos (se exemple, me intencas vekor ye 7 kloki)". En= la kondicionalo, la relato tempala esas montrata per la du parti di la fr= azo kondicionala. Ma en la presento ta duesma kozo ne bezonas expresesar, = nam ol esas sempre la tempo nuna ipsa: La puero lektabas libro (ante nun)= . La puero lektabas libro (ye l'instanto kande me dicas ke lu agabas tale= ). Pri la dezinenco prezenta "-as", me kelkafoye explikas ta tempo, exis= tanta en la Angla, a mea studianti Hispane-parolanta per la yena exemplo. = Imaginez ke vu esas separata e divorceskonta. To signifikas ke existas (nu= n) homo qua esis olim mariajita a vu. Vu e lu havas pasinto komuna. Forsan= vi havas filii. Vi certe havas memori (bona o mala). Vi ankore havas fors= an posedaji komuna, e singlu de vi havas donacaji donita dal altru. Vi hav= as mem ula interrelato. Vi savas la telefon-numero l'unu dil altru. Vi for= san intertelefonas kelkafoye. Vi esas nun komenconta judicio por divorco, = edc. Do existas ya multa traiti NUNA qui sugestas mariajo OLIMA. Vi povas = dicar "Lu esIS mea spozo", ma multa konsequaji en via vivo nuna igus forsa= n vi dicar prefere "Lu esAS mea ex-spozo". Co esas la Prezento Antea: la = indikilo nuna, prezenta, ke ulo eventis en ula tempo pasinta en via vivo. = Kad altra formo esus plu apta en Ido kam -abas, por expresar ta nuanco? M= e ne savas lo. Ma me pensas ke ol esas ya tre reteninda en nia linguo, se = ne obligale, adminime kom posiblajo. E me vidas la granda relato inter la = quar formi "-abas", "-abis", "-abos" e "-abus". Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI.= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1650 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51111 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 11:32:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 11:32:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly01.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.211) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 11:32:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 32012 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 11:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.197]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly01.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 11:32:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 32756 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 11:32:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.144]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 11:32:35 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:06:53 +0000 Message-ID: <00ac01c53061$96238b80$9dc217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:49:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Eduardo, >Me esas un de ti qui ofte uzas la formo -abas (od alternative: esas - inta). Yes, e forsan vu agas lo pro ke vu pensas Hispane ('he le�do') od Angle ('I've read') ed automate tradukas : 'me lektabas'... Me tre atence lektis e rilektis vua konsideri e ponderis vu argumenti. Tamen me tote ne trovis objeciono kontre mea reprocho ke -abas pekas dufoye kontre la principo di unasenceso e konseque es eroroza, absurda e repulsenda. Vua konsideri - quankam interesanta e lektinda - es pure teoriala e - precipue - tro subjektala. Or, kande on skribas o parolas la linguo internaciona (precipue kande on parolas, nam lore on apene havas tempo por tala rezoni) on bezonas esar sekura por evitar hezito o balbuto. Es plu facila e konforma al komuna raciono docar ke, se ago o stando ja finis, on devas uzar -as, e se ol ne ja finis, on devas uzar -as, e se ol ne ja komencis, on devas uzar -os, kam docar ke, se ago ja finis �MA ulamaniere relatas la tempo prezenta� (tro nepreciza e subjektala konsidero!), on devas uzar -abas. La formo -abas (segun la nuna uzo, nam antee on uzis ol por expresar anke altra nuanci...) es nura kalquo di gramatikala subtilajo existanta en kelka lingui (exemple la Angla e la Hispana). Tala subtilajo, tre facila e preske automata por la parolanti di ta lingui, es tre desfacila e komplikanta por la parolanti di lingui qui kareas ol. Kande me parolas o skribas Hispane od Angle, me sempre mustas haltar por pensar ka me devas uzar la simpla ('le�', 'I read') o la kompozita formo ('he le�do', 'I've read'). En la Angla gramatiko quan me ofte uzas ('Advanced grammar in Use', Cambridge University Press, 1999, 340 p.), la expliki ed exerci pri la subtilega diferi inter la du formi (nomata 'past simple e 'present perfect') okupas ne min kam sis pagini (p. 6-11), ed on ofras ne min kam 15 (!) reguli por bone distingar la diferenci e la nuanci. Ka tale on volas komplikar ed entravar Ido? Me povas nur gapar... >1.- "la puero lektis libro" e 2.- "la puero lektabas libro", >esas ke en la exemplo (1) onu apene expresas fakto eventinta en ula tempo pasinta ed onu volas atencigar la fakto ipsa; dum ke en l'exemplo (2) onu sugestas ke ulamaniere la ago indikata havas konsequaji perceptebla en la tempo prezenta. Se la ago indikata havas konsequaji perceptebla en la tempo prezenta, la aginto per durar sua parolo ed adjuntar importanta detali e informi certe igos la audanto o lektanto perceptar tala konsequaji. Pro quo ni devus kondensar en verboformo idei e nuanci tre subjektala ed expresebla per alta moyeni? Pluse, me repetas, parolesas pri verboformo qua grave pekas kontre nia gramatiko. >Exemple, se "la puero lektabas libro" OLIM, on povas NUN konkluzar ke lu savas lektar, o ke lu esas skolano, edc. Ne importas advere la fakto ipsa ke lu lektis, ne importas imaginar lu sidanta kun la libro en sua manui, ma on invitesas imaginar quale la tempo nuna povus esar diferanta kaze ke ta fakto (la lekto) ne eventabus. Me questionis: > > Nu, me retrovenez al analizata frazo: "la puero lektabas libro". Ube es la DU agi, por ke on povez komparar li? Me trovas nur la ago lektar. Ube es l'anteeso? Me vidas nula. Advere, on bezonas adminime DU agi por expresar anteeso. E vu respondis: > Ido ya nomas ta tempi verbala kom tempi "antea". La questiono esas do: "antea" kompare a quo? Ta tempi montras ulo qua eventis ante altra kozo, ulamaniere kondicionanta la kozo posa. Por la pasinto antea e por la futuro antea, oportas klare establisar quo esas ta kozo posa, ed olca do establisesas kom ago pasinta o futura, o mem kom simpla tempo-indikilo pasinta o futura: "Ante minokto, me ja departabis", "Morge ye 8 kloki, me ja vekabos (se exemple, me intencas vekor ye 7 kloki)". En la kondicionalo, la relato tempala esas montrata per la du parti di la frazo kondicionala. Ma en la presento ta duesma kozo ne bezonas expresesar, nam ol esas sempre la tempo nuna ipsa: Me respektoze devas konfesar ke me tote ne komprenas vua rezono. Me questonis: ube es la du agi o standi por ke on povez komparar li? E vu ne respondizis la questiono. Vu parolas pri �ulo qua eventis ante altra kozo� e pri �duesma kozo� qua �ne bezonas expresesar�. Ma qua kozo? On parolas ne pri �kozi�, ma pri agi o standi, nam irga verbo expresas nur ago o stando. Qual kozi? En la frazo �la puero lektabas libro�, ube es la du agi (nam 'lektar' es ago-verbo) por ke on povez komparar li? Existas nur un ago (la ago lektar). Tote ne importas kad ol havas konsequaji en la prezento o en la futuro. Koncernesas nur un ed unika ago, quan la parolanto ne povas komparar ad altra ago, nam ica ne existas. Or la sufixo -abas uzesas por komparar agi o standi. Konseque on ne darfas uzar ol en tala frazi. Esante inteligenta e talentoza, vu evidente esos kapabla ankore filigranigar vua rezoni e durar prizentar repliki plena de subtilaji e sinui. Tamen vu ne povos eskartar la fakto ke vu (ed altri) uzas -abas nur por obediar nacional kustumo qua ne havas plaso en linguo internaciona. Regretinde vu (ed altri) ne koncias tal fakto pro ke tal nacional kustumo ja rekalkesis e radikifis en vua cerebro e do vu apene es kapabla pensar sen rekursar ad ol. La parlerno di stranjera linguo (e precipue di linguo internaciona) es procedo multfoye doloroza e (provizore) deceptanta, nam on mustas privacar su de multa richaji e subtilaji di sua matrala linguo. Portugalano, exemple, mustas privacar su del imperfekto (anke Hispano mustas lo) e del personala (t.e. konjugebla) infinitivo, sen mencionar mult altra nunci verbal, idiotismi, edc. Tamen me es certa ke tala privaco valoras la peno, nam la perlerno di Ido posibligas nova kontakti, nova experienci, e precipue, donas al uzanto intelektal plezuro desfacile suplantebla: la plezuro expresar sua pensi per linguo klara, logikoza e ne entravata da subtilega ed ofte obskura reguli. On devas renuncar ulo por ganar altro... > Kad altra formo esus plu apta en Ido kam -abas, por expresar ta nuanco? Me ne savas lo. Lektez lo supera. En Ido omna nuanci es expresebla, ma ne sempre unvorte, e precipue ne sempre vortope de altra lingui... Me duros lektar vua bela texti (quale til nun), dolorante ye la pomo di Adam lor omna vua -abas, e mente tradukante omna tala uzo (-abas => -is), nam nur tale me kapablas komprenar. Kordiale, Gon�alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1651 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38174 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 11:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 11:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly08.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.218) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 11:33:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 8693 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 11:33:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly08.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 11:33:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 8650 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 11:33:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.144]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 11:33:08 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:37:46 +0000 Message-ID: <011301c53065$e653aa00$9dc217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:37:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Eduardo, >Me esas un de ti qui ofte uzas la formo -abas (od alternative: esas - inta). Yes, e forsan vu agas lo pro ke vu pensas Hispane ('he le�do') od Angle ('I've read') ed automate tradukas : 'me lektabas'... Me tre atence lektis e rilektis vua konsideri e ponderis vu argumenti. Tamen me tote ne trovis objeciono kontre mea reprocho ke -abas pekas dufoye kontre la principo di unasenceso e konseque es eroroza, absurda e repulsenda. Vua konsideri - quankam interesanta e lektinda - es pure teoriala e - precipue - tro subjektala. Or, kande on skribas o parolas la linguo internaciona (precipue kande on parolas, nam lore on apene havas tempo por tala rezoni) on bezonas esar sekura por evitar hezito o balbuto. Es plu facila e konforma al komuna raciono docar ke, se ago o stando ja finis, on devas uzar -as, e se ol ne ja finis, on devas uzar -as, e se ol ne ja komencis, on devas uzar -os, kam docar ke, se ago ja finis �MA ulamaniere relatas la tempo prezenta� (tro nepreciza e subjektala konsidero!), on devas uzar -abas. La formo -abas (segun la nuna uzo, nam antee on uzis ol por expresar anke altra nuanci...) es nura kalquo di gramatikala subtilajo existanta en kelka lingui (exemple la Angla e la Hispana). Tala subtilajo, tre facila e preske automata por la parolanti di ta lingui, es tre desfacila e komplikanta por la parolanti di lingui qui kareas ol. Kande me parolas o skribas Hispane od Angle, me sempre mustas haltar por pensar ka me devas uzar la simpla ('le�', 'I read') o la kompozita formo ('he le�do', 'I've read'). En la Angla gramatiko quan me ofte uzas ('Advanced grammar in Use', Cambridge University Press, 1999, 340 p.), la expliki ed exerci pri la subtilega diferi inter la du formi (nomata 'past simple e 'present perfect') okupas ne min kam sis pagini (p. 6-11), ed on ofras ne min kam 15 (!) reguli por bone distingar la diferenci e la nuanci. Ka tale on volas komplikar ed entravar Ido? Me povas nur gapar... >1.- "la puero lektis libro" e 2.- "la puero lektabas libro", >esas ke en la exemplo (1) onu apene expresas fakto eventinta en ula tempo pasinta ed onu volas atencigar la fakto ipsa; dum ke en l'exemplo (2) onu sugestas ke ulamaniere la ago indikata havas konsequaji perceptebla en la tempo prezenta. Se la ago indikata havas konsequaji perceptebla en la tempo prezenta, la aginto per durar sua parolo ed adjuntar importanta detali e informi certe igos la audanto o lektanto perceptar tala konsequaji. Pro quo ni devus kondensar en verboformo idei e nuanci tre subjektala ed expresebla per alta moyeni? Pluse, me repetas, parolesas pri verboformo qua grave pekas kontre nia gramatiko. >Exemple, se "la puero lektabas libro" OLIM, on povas NUN konkluzar ke lu savas lektar, o ke lu esas skolano, edc. Ne importas advere la fakto ipsa ke lu lektis, ne importas imaginar lu sidanta kun la libro en sua manui, ma on invitesas imaginar quale la tempo nuna povus esar diferanta kaze ke ta fakto (la lekto) ne eventabus. Me questionis: > > Nu, me retrovenez al analizata frazo: "la puero lektabas libro". Ube es la DU agi, por ke on povez komparar li? Me trovas nur la ago lektar. Ube es l'anteeso? Me vidas nula. Advere, on bezonas adminime DU agi por expresar anteeso. E vu respondis: > Ido ya nomas ta tempi verbala kom tempi "antea". La questiono esas do: "antea" kompare a quo? Ta tempi montras ulo qua eventis ante altra kozo, ulamaniere kondicionanta la kozo posa. Por la pasinto antea e por la futuro antea, oportas klare establisar quo esas ta kozo posa, ed olca do establisesas kom ago pasinta o futura, o mem kom simpla tempo-indikilo pasinta o futura: "Ante minokto, me ja departabis", "Morge ye 8 kloki, me ja vekabos (se exemple, me intencas vekor ye 7 kloki)". En la kondicionalo, la relato tempala esas montrata per la du parti di la frazo kondicionala. Ma en la presento ta duesma kozo ne bezonas expresesar, nam ol esas sempre la tempo nuna ipsa: Me respektoze devas konfesar ke me tote ne komprenas vua rezono. Me questonis: ube es la du agi o standi por ke on povez komparar li? E vu ne respondizis la questiono. Vu parolas pri �ulo qua eventis ante altra kozo� e pri �duesma kozo� qua �ne bezonas expresesar�. Ma qua kozo? On parolas ne pri �kozi�, ma pri agi o standi, nam irga verbo expresas nur ago o stando. Qual kozi? En la frazo �la puero lektabas libro�, ube es la du agi (nam 'lektar' es ago-verbo) por ke on povez komparar li? Existas nur un ago (la ago lektar). Tote ne importas kad ol havas konsequaji en la prezento o en la futuro. Koncernesas nur un ed unika ago, quan la parolanto ne povas komparar ad altra ago, nam ica ne existas. Or la sufixo -abas uzesas por komparar agi o standi. Konseque on ne darfas uzar ol en tala frazi. Esante inteligenta e talentoza, vu evidente esos kapabla ankore filigranigar vua rezoni e durar prizentar repliki plena de subtilaji e sinui. Tamen vu ne povos eskartar la fakto ke vu (ed altri) uzas -abas nur por obediar nacional kustumo qua ne havas plaso en linguo internaciona. Regretinde vu (ed altri) ne koncias tal fakto pro ke tal nacional kustumo ja rekalkesis e radikifis en vua cerebro e do vu apene es kapabla pensar sen rekursar ad ol. La parlerno di stranjera linguo (e precipue di linguo internaciona) es procedo multfoye doloroza e (provizore) deceptanta, nam on mustas privacar su de multa richaji e subtilaji di sua matrala linguo. Portugalano, exemple, mustas privacar su del imperfekto (anke Hispano mustas lo) e del personala (t.e. konjugebla) infinitivo, sen mencionar mult altra nunci verbal, idiotismi, edc. Tamen me es certa ke tala privaco valoras la peno, nam la perlerno di Ido posibligas nova kontakti, nova experienci, e precipue, donas al uzanto intelektal plezuro desfacile suplantebla: la plezuro expresar sua pensi per linguo klara, logikoza e ne entravata da subtilega ed ofte obskura reguli. On devas renuncar ulo por ganar altro... > Kad altra formo esus plu apta en Ido kam -abas, por expresar ta nuanco? Me ne savas lo. Lektez lo supera. En Ido omna nuanci es expresebla, ma ne sempre unvorte, e precipue ne sempre vortope de altra lingui... Me duros lektar vua bela texti (quale til nun), dolorante ye la pomo di Adam lor omna vua -abas, e mente tradukante omna tala uzo (-abas => -is), nam nur tale me kapablas komprenar. Kordiale, Gon�alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1652 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82456 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 20:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 20:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 20:26:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 21890 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2005 20:25:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20050324202559.21888.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.123.113] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:25:59 CET Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:25:59 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <002c01c52f20$26275ce0$b2c217c3@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto ad omnu! Unesme, voluntez pardonar me pro mea tro hastoza e ne-exakta refero tempal pri l' formo "-abas", che mea antea mesajo a Michael. Fakte, me intencis nur nuancar la difero existanta inter la pasinto simpla e la preterito perfekta, che uli ek nia lingui natural. Pro quo ni devus ne uzar formi finanta per -abas!? Ka pro ke l'Akademio repulsis ta formo multa yari ante nun...? Ne suficas! Ka pro ke, cetere, un ek nia samideani, nome Goncalo Neves, tote refuzas ol e montras, tre klare, detaloze e konvinkive ilua motivi, ilua pro quo...? Ne suficas! To quo vere importas es' quale NI, nuna Idisti, devas agar tarelate, en la skopo favorar Ido admaxime. Me ne inventis la formo -abas!: ol existas ed es uzata da sat multa Idisti, mem da maxim expert Idisti! Yen la chefa questiono: Pro quo ni agas tale, se ni savas ke ol repulsesis dal Akademio, ed ol es tante hororiganta? Ka ni advere bezonas ol ulmaniere...? Me havas adminime du motivi uzir ol: unesme, pro "mimetismo" e duesme, pro nia Ido-kursi ipsa: Voluntez vizitar "Basic Grammar" (en Angla), ed ibe vi ya trovos la formo -abas kom tote justa e normal; e pensez ke ol es "simpla e bazal gramatiko"! http://members.aol.com/idolinguo/bgrammar.html Se me ne eroras, la formo -abas propozesis konkrete por la preterito perfekta, e kom tal me uzis ol til nun... Tamen, on repulsis ol por evitar posibla trouzo e mem misuzo da uli qui, 'sendubte', esabus influita da lia matro-lingui, ed uzabus ol troe, e pluse, sive kom preterito perfekta, sive kom ne-perfekta. Ed on tre bone divinis, nam, efektive, to eventas nuntempe: on trouzas e misuzas -abas, e me agnoskas ke me kelke sufras, kande me lektas ol kom preterito ne-perfekta, pro ke me aceptabis ol ed uzabis ol nur kom preterito perfekta. To skribite, me devas klarigar ke me, principe, nule pensas kombatar l'argumenti da Goncalo, quin me ya konsideras ne nur kom respektinda, ma anke kom reflektinda. Me advere' nule bezonas la preterito perfekta, quan me tre bone povas nuancar altramaniere. Mea vera problemo esus uzor la pasinto simpla, kande me tre bezonus nuancar pri situeso preterita ne-perfekta. Ma talkaze, me ne nuancus per -abas. Rezume: se ulu havas povoz argumenti favore l' formo -abas, ta devus, nun e hike, kontre-argumentizar Goncalo e tale equilibrar la balanco. Kontree, me havas nula problemo manjor, depos nun, mea tota -abas-disharo. Tale, me nule renuncus mea dishi (nuanci), ma nur mea -abas-dishi. Kaze ke ni repulsus fine tal formo, me pregas ke ni ekpulsez ol anke de nia tota Ido-kursi. Ri-saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A --- Goncalo Neves skribis: --------------------------------- Kara listani, Recente on itere pulsis al areno la problemo dil verboformo -abas. Me supozas ke me ne ja prizentis mea opiniono pri la afero. Nu, mea opiniono es simpla. Ta verboformo es tote absurda e pekas duople kontre la principo di unasenceso. Me montrez exemplo: "la puero lektabas libro" Nu, la adheranti ed uzanti dil verboformo -abas afirmas ke ol indikas tempo recente pasinta. Quon do povus signifikar la supera frazo "me lektabas libro"? Pro ke la vorti 'la', 'puero' e 'libro' produktas nula dubito, me analizez nur la formo 'lektabas'. Ol kompozesas da tri elementi: lekt (radiko) + ab (sufixo) + as (dezinenco) Segun la principo di unasenceso, irga radiko, sufixo, prefixo o dezinenco mantenas sua senco en irga kompozita vorto. Ni analizez la tri elementi: a) La radiko 'lekt': Ne oportas facar granda mental gimnastiko por konstatar ed agnoskar ke la radiko 'lekt' mantenas sua senco en la supera vorto. Irge quale on interpretos la tempeso di 'lektabas', 'lekt' sempre montros la sama ago. Nula peko hike. b) La sufixo 'ab': Quon signifikas ta sufixo? Ol indikas anteeso relate altra ago o stando. Ol do es ulasorta komparanta sufixo verbal. Yen du exempli: "Kande el arivis, il departabis" (anteeso en tempo pasinta) "Kande el arivos, il departabos" (anteeso en tempo futura) "Se me lektabus la libro, me nun respondus a vu" (anteeeso en tempo eventuala) En la unesma frazo on komparas du agi (arivar e departar) eventinta. En la duesma on komparas du agi (arivar e departar) eventonta. En la triesma on komparas du agi (lektar e respondar) posibla, eventuala. En omna exempli parolesas pri komparo inter du agi. Advere on povas parolar pri anteeso nur kande on komparas adminime DU agi. Nu, me retrovenez al analizata frazo: "la puero lektabas libro". Ube es la DU agi, por ke on povez komparar li? Me trovas nur la ago lektar. Ube es l'anteeso? Me vidas nula. Advere, on bezonas adminime DU agi por expresar anteeso. Konkluze, en la vorto 'lektabas' la sufixo 'ab' signifikas ulo altra kam anteeso. Ol do pekas kontre la principo di unasenceso. Unesma peko! c) La dezinenco 'as': Omna Idisto savas ke la dezinenco 'as' indikas tempo prezenta. Omna docolibro klare montras lo, e nultempe aparis dubito pri to. 'as' expresas ago o stando prezenta, same kam 'is' indikas ago pasinta e 'os' montras ago futura. Negar lo esus renversar la tota sistemo verbal di Ido. Me supozas ke nulu deziras tala kulbuto. Nu, se 'as' povas expresar nur ago o stando prezenta, to signifikas ke 'lektabas' - irge quale on analizas la rolo dil sufixo 'ab'! - povas indikar nur la prezento dil ago lektar. Or la signifiko quan on volas atribuar a 'abas' (�ago recente pasinta�) tote violacas tal principo, nam �ago recente pasinta� duras esar pasinta e nule povas esar prezenta. Konkluze, en la vorto 'lektabas' la dezinenco 'as' signifikas ulo altra kam prezento. Ol do pekas kontre la principo di unasenceso. Duesma peko! Se en la vorto 'lektabas' la sufixo 'abas' signifikas ulo altra kam anteeso e la dezinenco 'as' signifikas ulo altra kam prezento, la vorto pekas dufoye kontre la principo di unasenceso e do es sensenca, absurda e repulsenda. Evidente la sama analizo es aplikebla ad irga vorto '...abas', od altradice, al verboformo 'abas' entote. 'abas' NE havas plaso en Ido. Ol ne nur grave e duople violacas la principo di unasenceso, ma anke komplikas nia limpida sistemo verbal - sen ula avantajo, sen ula gano, sen ula richigo. On rilektez, atencez e bone merkez la saja vorti da K. Feder: �Oportas atencigar ke la formo -abas ne existas, ma nur la formi -abis, -abos, -abus (Dec. 407, IV 321; Dec. 784, V 721). L'Akademio ne adoptis la formo -abas pro ke ol povus konsideresar kom perfekto da uni, kom imperfekto da altri, segun la nacional kustumo. On rilektez la detaloza expliko pri to en Progre. I 556.� (Mondo, 1922, p. 30) Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1653 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90759 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 21:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 21:30:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 21:30:39 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.100] (unverified [80.90.57.118]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 29948646 for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:31:15 +0100 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:35:18 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20050324202559.21888.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050324202559.21888.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Disposition-Notification-To: Steve Walesch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200503242235.18966.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara Gon=E7alo, Me tre prizas vua mesaji en la diversa Ido-listi. Pri -aba= s me havas altra vidpunto. Me ne ankore es experiencoza Idisto e forsan me= eroras o miskomprenas ca punto, ma me tamen volas explikar a vu quale me = komprenas ca verb-formo. > Nu, me retrovenez al analizata frazo: "la pue= ro > lektabas libro". Ube es la DU agi, por ke on povez > komparar li? Me= trovas nur la ago lektar. Ube es > l'anteeso? Me vidas nula. Advere, on b= ezonas adminime > DU agi por expresar anteeso. > > Konkluze, en la vorto = 'lektabas' la sufixo 'ab' > signifikas ulo altra kam anteeso. Ol do pekas = kontre > la principo di unasenceso. Unesma peko!=A0 La unesma ago es la a= go lektar libro. Kande on "lektabas libro", on ne plus lektas, pro ke ta a= go es ya la antea ago (la sufixo -ab- indikas to). La duesma ago ne es tot= e definita (adminime ne en vua exemplo), ma ol certe ne es la ago lektar. = La puero do ne plus lektas, ma jus finis lektar e nun facas altra kozo. Vu= povus exemple dicar: "La puero lektabas libro e skribas rezumo pri olu." = En ca exemplo vu klare vidas la anteeso, ma to ne signifikas ke ca duesma = ago mustas omna-foye expresesar explicite. Me pensas ke -ab- esence es opo= rtuna por indikar ke ula ago es finita. (La anteeso indikas ke ago eventis = ante altra ago, kad on mencionas ta duesma ago explicite o ne.) Certe vu = povus anke dicar: "La puero lektis libro e skribas rezumo pri olu", ma en = ta exemplo la puero povus esar lektinta la libro ja ante longa tempo (exem= ple ante kelka monati) e lu skribas rezumo nun. Pro to la dezinenco "-as" = es tre oportuna, nam ol indikas ke ni parolas pri la *nuna* tempo. Amikale= , Steve Walesch From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1654 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48026 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 21:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 21:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 21:49:22 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.175.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.175] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DEaCe-000M4M-5G for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:49:20 +0000 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:45:09 GMT Message-ID: <200532420459.675838@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <000201c52f8b$c5c1cfe0$6cb417c3@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] arozar/aspersar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, Me konsentas multe pri vua analizo. Yes, me remarkis ke de= tempo a tempo Pesch donas defino plu etimologiala kam aktuala. Se existus= altra vorto en Ido por "aspersar", sen restrikto a kuntexto religiala o me= dicinala, adminime ni havus vorto por, exemple, "aspersar" linjo (ek vua no= va exempli esis nur pri ta ke me ja pensis, malgre la fakto ke me tre rare = repasas!). Tamen, se ne existas altra vorto, ni bezonas kaptar "aspersar" p= or la senco generala! To esis fakte plusa motivo por ne felice aceptar la r= estrikto da Dyer, mem se ne adequata per su ipsa por darfar refuzar ol sen = aprobo. Parenteze, me ofte trovas en Ido - e mem en mea matrolinguo - desf= acileso memorar exakta vorto dezirata. Existas en la Angla linguo (qua hava= s tre multa vorti) libri qui klasifikas vorti segun senco, quale la origine= anciena "Roget's Thesaurus", o quale "Hartrampf's Vocabularies: synonyms, = antonyms, relatives". Multa dicionarii donas sinonimi. Ni savas ke Ido hava= s tre poka sinonimi. Dyer donas antonimi. La precipua problemo pri qua ta = Angla libri helpas koncernas trovo di vorto qua ne esas sinonimo od antonim= o ma nur ulagrade simila a vorto quan on povas memorar. En Ido la vorti "ar= ozar" ed "aspersar" esas perfekta exemplo. En ula kazi, Dyer mencionas simi= la vorti kune, e helpeme explikas la diferi inter li (generale, ma ne sempr= e, tre bone). Mea ideo, ja dum sat longa tempo, esas krear plu generala "v= ortotrovilo" - listo de Idala vorti per qua on povas serchar ne nur vorti s= imila, ma anke vorti nur asociata mente, kun vorto quan on savas. Tala list= o partikulare helpus personi quale me qui ne memoras vorti facile, e partik= ulare lernanti qui parolas lingui qui havas vorti tre diferanta de la Idala= vorti. Exemple, se on memoras la vorto "lakto" ma ne povas memorar "froma= jo" o "melkar". En la listo on trovas "lakto" ed ibe mencionesas "butro", "= fromajo" e "melkar". Simile, se on memoras nur "butro" on trovus ibe en la = listo "fromajo" e "lakto". Same, se on oblivias "arbusto", trovez "arboro",= od inverse. Se on ne povas memorar "alizeo", trovez ol ye "vento". Por tr= ovar "akushar" o "parturar", trovez unesme "naskar". Se "espado" ne esas la= exakta vorto quan on bezonas, trovez ol e yen esas "glavo" e "rapiero". K= ande on pensas pri vorto, povas esar utila vidar ol kun simila vorti, por h= elpar decidar pri ta qua fitas maxim bone. Exemple: "abolisar, anular, elim= inar, finar, supresar". Pro ke memori esas multe plu bona pasive kam aktiv= e, en multa kazi on quik memoras, kande on vidas la posiblaji, qua vorto, e= k ti donita, esas to serchata, o ne serchata tamen bone trovata. La listo = propozata, pri qua me ja laboras, povus esar kombinita kun vortaro tradukal= a, od aparta. Kordiale, Robert. P.S. En Ido "dum" esas nur prepoziciono;= la konjunciono esas "dum ke". __________________ Goncalo Neves skribis: = =A0Kara Robert, =A0Yen mea komenti pri vua mesajo aparinta en Idolisto. = =A0I) arozar/aspersar =A0Nia dicionarii es tro konfuza pri ca temo. Yen me= a analizo. [... ... ...] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1655 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34443 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 23:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2005 23:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO brando.numericable.net) (80.236.3.116) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2005 23:49:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 12279 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2005 23:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by brando.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 24 Mar 2005 23:49:10 -0000 Message-ID: <006701c530cc$db3e9320$bf60dc51@landloic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:54:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: baleno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Linguolistani, Robert skribis kelka dii ante : > Yen altra exemplo ub= e me ne konsentas kun Dyer qua donas simple: > "balen-o: whale" sen qualifi= ko. Couturat e De Beaufront donas simple : baleine : baleno; (fanon) barto= > Tamen, se baleno =3D F baleine (quale dicas latra vortari), A whale nur= parte koincidas kun baleno. > Semblas a me ke F baleine =3D A baleen whal= e, whalebone whale. La tradukilo SYSTRAN donas : A whalebone =3D F fanon = de baleine E mea franca dicionario LaRousse donas: F: baleine =3D 1) mamm= if=E8re marin du groupe des c=E9tac=E9s (marala mamifero di grupo di cetace= o kun la kashaloto e la delfino) 2) baleine de parapluie= ( A : umbrella rib) [pro ke forsan ol fabrikesis olim kun barto di baleno = ( F: fanon, A :pennon ) ?] Quale tradukar en Ido F: baleine de parapluie, = A : umbrella rib ? > La Angla "whale" esas koncepto qua inkluzas ne nur la= baleni ma anke la "toothed whales" (granda dentoza mamiferi aquala). Ma pr= o quo existas la angla vorto cetacea o cetacean ( F : c=E9tac=E9s, H : cet= =E1ceos, Ido : cetaceo ) ? Ka povus existar vera miskompreno kun la vorto = baleno por Angliani ? Kordiale Loik [Non-text portions of this= message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1656 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66641 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 01:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2005 01:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly03.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.213) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2005 01:42:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 24540 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 01:42:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.227]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly03.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 25 Mar 2005 01:42:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 6079 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 01:42:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.168]) ([195.23.194.168]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 25 Mar 2005 01:42:07 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:46:48 +0000 Message-ID: <002c01c530dc$82787d40$a8c217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <20050324032338.EKLO22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:30:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Richard, Me timas ke vu pozas tro multa ovi en la sama sako. La nuna uzeso di *komputoro igas vu propozar la verbo *komputar, e ca propozo igas vu retroderivar la eventuala sufixo *-or, qua semblas a vu analoga a A -er, F -eur, H -or. Tamen la afero ne es tante simpla, ed on ne darfas forjar nova sufixi tante temerare, sen ponderir omna lateri dil problemo. Parolesas hike pri du aferi nedependanta e do nemixinda. Unesme pri la sufixo. I) La nuna situeso a) La sufixo -il: La oficala sufixo -il: �indikas instrumento (o implemento): on brosas per brosilo, on pektas per pektilo� (KGD) �signifikas 'instrumento por...' (ne mashino)� (Pesch) �added to verbal roots denots the instrument, tool, or means of performing an action� [adjuntita a verbala radiki indikas la instrumento, utensilo o moyeni por exekutar ago] (Dyer) Nu, hike on ja povas konstatar nuanci: Beaufront parolas pri instrumento o implemento (do utensilo manuala), Pesch pri instrumento e Dyer pri instrumento, utensilo o moyeno. Tamen nulu inkluzas aparato o mashino, e Pesh avertas mem ke la sufixo ne es aplikebla a mashino. De to on povus konkluzar ke por indikar aparato o mashino on devas rekursar ad altra moyeno. La praktiko montras ke ja del frua tempi on rekursas al vorti 'aparato' o 'mashino' por kompozar la bezonata vorti: 'lav-masino', 'kov-aparato', edc. Ca procedo juas kelka internaciona susteno e havas l'avantajo ne charjar la memoro per plusa lernendo. Tamen semblas ke la sufixo -il anke ja del frua tempi komencis invadar la tereno di aparati e mashini: 'frizorizilo' (Dyer) e 'kalorizilo' (Dyer) tote ne es instrumenti, utensili od implementi... On devus dicar 'frigoriz-mashino', 'kaloriz-aparato'... Pro quo on ne dicas lo? Me supozas ke to eventas pro du motivi: a) Kelkfoye on hezitas inter 'mashino' ed 'aparato', e la "vasta" sufixo -il eskartas tal hezito. b) La rekurso a 'mashino' od 'aparato' ofte genitas tro longa e nepraktikala vorti. Rezume: la sufixo -il nun uzesas anke exter sua resortiso. To semblas justifikar la eventuala adopto di nova sufixo, plu apta e praktikala, por indikar aparati e mashini. Tamen de ta semblo on ne darfas hastar al konkluzo ke on MUSTAS admisar nova sufixo. La bezono semble existas, on povas vidar vakua spaco, do on prefere komencez studiar la problemo e ponderar eventuala solvi. 2) La sufixo *-or (propozata da Richard) Me opinionas ke ol havas tri desavantaji plu o min grava: a) Ol kolizionus kun existanta radiko (or/o). Yes, me savas ke to ne es impediva (ni havas anke -al- e al/o), tamen to kelke jenas. b) Ol ja existas en la linguo, celita en pasable multa vorti integra, en qui ol ofte havas senco analoga a nia -er o -ist: aktoro asesoro autoro censoro doktoro kantoro komandoro konduktoro lektoro liktoro mayoro mentoro pastoro pretoro prioro profesoro questoro rektoro talioro En omna ta vorti la pseudoprefixo *-or indikas ne mashino od aparato ma persono. c) Ol produktus kolizioni kun plura radiki ja existanta: *kondukt/or/o - konduktor/o *kont/or/o - kontor/o *lekt/or/o - lektor/o *min/or/o - minor/o *pekt/or/o - pektor/o *sap/or/o - sapor/o *son/or/o - sonor/o *tali/or/o - talior/o 3) La sufixo -ator* (propozata da me) Me opinionas ke ol havas la sequanta avantaji relate -or* a) Ol kolizionus kun nula existanta radiko. b) Ol ja existas en la linguo, celita en pasable multa vorti integra, en qui ol ja signifikas mashino od aparato: akumulator/o alternator/o aspirator/o elevator/o karburator/o* kondensator/o manipulator/o radiator/o regulator/o transformator/o ventilator/o totalizator/o Se on admisus ol kom vera (produktiva) sufixo, ta superflua radiki desaparus ed on darfus derivar la nomi di ta mashini del rispektiva verbi: *akumul/ator/o *altern/ator/o *aspir/ator/o *elev/ator/o *karbur/ator/o *kondens/ator/o *manipul/ator/o *radi/ator/o *regul/ator/o *transform/ator/o *ventil/ator/o *total/iz/ator/o La linguo do divenus mem plu reguloza. c) Ol produktus koliziono kun nur un radiko ja existanta: *dikt/ator/o - diktator/o (espereble on uldie sucesos eliminar omna diktator/i...) (*imper/ator/o ed *am/ator/o es neglijebla, nam on apene povas imaginar la existo di tala mashini!) d) Ol es plu dicernebla de -er kam *-or. Komparez: traduk/er/o - *traduk/or/o - *traduk/ator/o falch/er/o - *falch/or/o - *falch/ator/o d) Ol produktus multa vorti utila e facile dicernebla: *aroz/ator/o *des/humid/ig/atoro *drash/ator/o *exhaust/ator/o *exkav/ator/o *falch/ator/o (dicernebla del falchilo manual) *falch/o-drash/ator/o *frigor/iz/ator/o *frot/ator/o (exemple: paviment-frotatoro) *garb/ig/ator/o *imprim/ator/o *kalor/iz/ator/o *kont/ator/o *lav/ator/o (on povus tre elegante dicar: automobil-lavatoro, paviment-lavatoro, plad-lavatoro, vest-lavatoro, e mem... mashin-lavatoro) *melk/ator/o *navig/ator/o *nebul/iz/ator/o *polis/ator/o *puls/ator/o *pulver/iz/ator/o *seg/ator/o *sek/ator/o *sik/ig/ator/o (dicernebla del sikigilo manual, uzata exemple por sikigar la hararo) *simul/ator/o *sinkron/ig/ator/o *skan/ator/o *tranch/ator/o II) *komputoro Vu skribis: >*Komputar = efektigar kalkulo od altra tasko per *komputoro, qua anke povas uzar altra programi e havas memoro por konservar dokumenti. Yen: duimo di vua defino di *komputar es tamen la defino di *komputoro... La fakto ke vu ne povis definar *komputar sen rekursar al defino di *komputoro ipsa pruvas ke la bazala koncepto es ne la asertita ago (*komputar) ma la aparato (*komputoro)... Advere, *komputoro es elektronikala aparato tre komplexa e potenta qua efektigas granda quanto de taski segun la instrucioni per qui on programizas ol. Inter la taski me memoras le sequanta (listo neexhaustiva): recevas informi de diversa fonti (diski, disketi, *skanatori, altra *komputori, edc) analizas informi konservas informi traktas informi kalkulas facas grafiki kontrolas altra mashini od aparati sendas informi ad *imprimatori o ad altra *komputori od aparati Singla de la supera taski es importanta ed esencala. Nula superesas le ceteri tante ke ol povus pretendar nomizar l'aparato segun sua propra nomo. Altralatere, kondensar tanta taski diversa e disparata en komuna nomo (quale *komputar) semblas vera violaco dil reala naturo di *komputoro. L'aparato es plu importanta, plu distingita e plu autonoma kam irga tasko quan ol efektigas. Me tote ne vidas en qua kuntexti on povus uzar la propozata vorto *komputar. Me serchis e meditis ma trovis absolute nula. Ol sembas a me tote balasta e neutila, propozata nur por justifikar neapta sufixo (*-or). Amikale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1657 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38978 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 03:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2005 03:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2005 03:13:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2005 03:13:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2005 03:13:25 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 03:13:25 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00ac01c53061$96238b80$9dc217c3@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 8341 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: [linguo] Re: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Gon=E7alo, Vua opiniono pri "-abas" certe kreas vivaca debat-ado! Log= ikale vu esas justa. Tamen: 1. Me opinionas ke existas variado inter di= feranta Europala lingui., (posible desfavoroza ad interlinguisti). En angl= a on uzas la "-ab" o "have" formo tre freque. La simpla tempi "-as, -is.-o= s" semblas tro abrupta o mem nepolita. Por la pasinta tempo, en Francia o= n ofte uzas la imperfekto ma en Hispania (adminime en Mexikia) on uzas la= preterito. 2. La helpo-verbo. En la Raporto di Akademio (1937), quan vu s= endubite havas, Sri. Roze, e De Beaufront apogis "-abas" Anke Sro. Quar= food dicis, "ni devas aplikar bona reguli, quin ni ja havas, maxim senece= pte. La tipo"venabas =3D esas veninta, D: ist gekommen, E: has come" bone = solvas la desfacileso pri "havar" ed "esar", kom helpo-verbo. La sintezal= a formi en Ido sempre plu uzesas. Li esas vere komoda." Hodie me kredas k= e la sintezala formi esas min uzita vice la simpla tempi..La uzado di "-a= bas" semblas utila quale "mivoyala domo". En angla, adminime, la preiranta= verbo povas esar en la prezenta o pasinta tempo, ma la sequanta verbo ku= n "-abas" kustume referas a la "recenta pasinta". `Ka l'autobus arivas? D= esfortunoze vu faliabas ol.' `Ka l'autobas arivis? Desfortunoze vu faliabas= ol.' 3. Me ne amas nova vorti por nuanci di existanta vorti (Ido havas bo= na selekto di afixi). Tamen la uzado di "-abas" semblas utila finalo por e= xpresar nuanco di verb-senco. Nia samideano James Chandler asertas ke "-ab= as", nun aceptita, nur havus rara uzado kande "-is" ne esas vere preciza. = Amikale, Richard Stevenson. --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Gonca= lo Neves" wrote: > Kara Eduardo, > > >Me esas un de ti qui= ofte uzas la formo -abas (od alternative: esas - > inta). > > Yes, e for= san vu agas lo pro ke vu pensas Hispane ('he le=EDdo') od Angle > ('I've r= ead') ed automate tradukas : 'me lektabas'... > > Me tre atence lektis e r= ilektis vua konsideri e ponderis vu argumenti. Tamen > me tote ne trovis o= bjeciono kontre mea reprocho ke -abas pekas dufoye kontre > la principo di= unasenceso e konseque es eroroza, absurda e repulsenda. > > Vua konsider= i - quankam interesanta e lektinda - es pure teoriala e - > precipue - tro= subjektala. Or, kande on skribas o parolas la linguo > internaciona (prec= ipue kande on parolas, nam lore on apene havas tempo por > tala rezoni) on= bezonas esar sekura por evitar hezito o balbuto. Es plu > facila e konfor= ma al komuna raciono docar ke, se ago o stando ja finis, on > devas uzar -= as, e se ol ne ja finis, on devas uzar -as, e se ol ne ja > komencis, on d= evas uzar -os, kam docar ke, se ago ja finis =ABMA ulamaniere > relatas la= tempo prezenta=BB (tro nepreciza e subjektala konsidero!), on devas > uza= r -abas. > > La formo -abas (segun la nuna uzo, nam antee on uzis ol por = expresar anke > altra nuanci...) es nura kalquo di gramatikala subtilajo ex= istanta en kelka > lingui (exemple la Angla e la Hispana). Tala subtilajo,= tre facila e preske > automata por la parolanti di ta lingui, es tre desf= acila e komplikanta por > la parolanti di lingui qui kareas ol. Kande me p= arolas o skribas Hispane od > Angle, me sempre mustas haltar por pensar ka= me devas uzar la simpla ('le=ED', > 'I read') o la kompozita formo ('he l= e=EDdo', 'I've read'). En la Angla > gramatiko quan me ofte uzas ('Advance= d grammar in Use', Cambridge University > Press, 1999, 340 p.), la expliki= ed exerci pri la subtilega diferi inter la > du formi (nomata 'past simpl= e e 'present perfect') okupas ne min kam sis > pagini (p. 6-11), ed on ofr= as ne min kam 15 (!) reguli por bone distingar la > diferenci e la nuanci.= Ka tale on volas komplikar ed entravar Ido? Me povas > nur gapar... > > = > >1.- "la puero lektis libro" e > > 2.- "la puero lektabas libro", > > = >esas ke en la exemplo (1) onu apene expresas fakto eventinta en ula > tem= po pasinta ed onu volas atencigar la fakto ipsa; dum ke en > l'exemplo (2) = onu sugestas ke ulamaniere la ago indikata havas > konsequaji perceptebla e= n la tempo prezenta. > > Se la ago indikata havas konsequaji perceptebla e= n la tempo prezenta, la > aginto per durar sua parolo ed adjuntar importan= ta detali e informi certe > igos la audanto o lektanto perceptar tala kons= equaji. Pro quo ni devus > kondensar en verboformo idei e nuanci tre subje= ktala ed expresebla per alta > moyeni? Pluse, me repetas, parolesas pri ve= rboformo qua grave pekas kontre > nia gramatiko. > > >Exemple, se "la pue= ro > lektabas libro" OLIM, on povas NUN konkluzar ke lu savas lektar, o ke= > lu esas skolano, edc. Ne importas advere la fakto ipsa ke lu lektis, > = ne importas imaginar lu sidanta kun la libro en sua manui, ma on > invitesa= s imaginar quale la tempo nuna povus esar diferanta kaze ke > ta fakto (la = lekto) ne eventabus. > > Me questionis: > > > > Nu, me retrovenez al anal= izata frazo: "la puero lektabas libro". > Ube es la DU agi, por ke on pove= z komparar li? Me trovas nur la ago > lektar. Ube es l'anteeso? Me vidas nu= la. Advere, on bezonas adminime > DU agi por expresar anteeso. > > E vu r= espondis: > > > Ido ya nomas ta tempi verbala kom tempi "antea". La questi= ono esas > do: "antea" kompare a quo? Ta tempi montras ulo qua eventis ant= e > altra kozo, ulamaniere kondicionanta la kozo posa. Por la pasinto > ant= ea e por la futuro antea, oportas klare establisar quo esas ta > kozo posa,= ed olca do establisesas kom ago pasinta o futura, o mem > kom simpla tempo= -indikilo pasinta o futura: "Ante minoktto, me ja > departabis", "Morge ye 8= kloki, me ja vekabos (se exemple, me > intencas vekor ye 7 kloki)". En la = kondicionalo, la relato tempala > esas montrata per la du parti di la frazo= kondicionala. Ma en la > presento ta duesma kozo ne bezonas expresesar, na= m ol esas sempre la > tempo nuna ipsa: > > Me respektoze devas konfesar k= e me tote ne komprenas vua rezono. Me > questonis: ube es la du agi o stand= i por ke on povez komparar li? E vu ne > respondizis la questiono. Vu paro= las pri =ABulo qua eventis ante altra kozo=BB e > pri =ABduesma kozo=BB qu= a =ABne bezonas expresesar=BB. Ma qua kozo? On parolas ne > pri =ABkozi=BB= , ma pri agi o standi, nam irga verbo expresas nur ago o stando. > Qual ko= zi? En la frazo =ABla puero lektabas libro=BB, ube es la du agi (nam > 'le= ktar' es ago-verbo) por ke on povez komparar li? Existas nur un ago (la > = ago lektar). Tote ne importas kad ol havas konsequaji en la prezento o en = la > futuro. Koncernesas nur un ed unika ago, quan la parolanto ne povas k= omparar > ad altra ago, nam ica ne existas. Or la sufixo -abas uzesas por = komparar agi > o standi. Konseque on ne darfas uzar ol en tala frazi. > > = Esante inteligenta e talentoza, vu evidente esos kapabla ankore filigranig= ar > vua rezoni e durar prizentar repliki plena de subtilaji e sinui. Tame= n vu ne > povos eskartar la fakto ke vu (ed altri) uzas -abas nur por obed= iar nacional > kustumo qua ne havas plaso en linguo internaciona. Regretin= de vu (ed altri) > ne koncias tal fakto pro ke tal nacional kustumo ja rek= alkesis e radikifis > en vua cerebro e do vu apene es kapabla pensar sen r= ekursar ad ol. La > parlerno di stranjera linguo (e precipue di linguo int= ernaciona) es procedo > multfoye doloroza e (provizore) deceptanta, nam on= mustas privacar su de > multa richaji e subtilaji di sua matrala linguo. = Portugalano, exemple, > mustas privacar su del imperfekto (anke Hispano mu= stas lo) e del personala > (t.e. konjugebla) infinitivo, sen mencionar mul= t altra nunci verbal, > idiotismi, edc. Tamen me es certa ke tala privaco = valoras la peno, nam la > perlerno di Ido posibligas nova kontakti, nova e= xperienci, e precipue, donas > al uzanto intelektal plezuro desfacile supl= antebla: la plezuro expresar sua > pensi per linguo klara, logikoza e ne e= ntravata da subtilega ed ofte obskura > reguli. On devas renuncar ulo por = ganar altro... > > > Kad altra formo esus plu apta en Ido kam -abas, por e= xpresar ta > nuanco? Me ne savas lo. > > Lektez lo supera. En Ido omna nua= nci es expresebla, ma ne sempre unvorte, e > precipue ne sempre vortope de= altra lingui... > > Me duros lektar vua bela texti (quale til nun), dolor= ante ye la pomo di Adam > lor omna vua -abas, e mente tradukante omna tala= uzo (-abas =3D> - is), nam nur > tale me kapablas komprenar. > > Kordiale= , > > Gon=E7alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1658 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24760 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 16:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2005 16:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.39) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2005 16:56:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:56:07 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:56:06 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <2005324214928.529570@SonyFX805> To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:56:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2005 16:56:07.0187 (UTC) FILETIME=[89B23630:01C5315B] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [ido] Mea danki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Kom un ek ta idisti qui uzas la vorto *situaciono, me devas respondar vua suba mesajo. La vortolibro quan me havas hike donas 4 senci dil angla vorto: 1. Fizikala poziciono (egarde la cirkumaji) 2. Afer-stando 3. Sociala o financala stando o rango 4. Engajo employala Me propozas (e deziras) *situaciono por la senci 2,3,4 (ne 1) - to es, omna abstrakta senci, nula konkreta senci Pri l'altra vorti sube, me konkordas kun vu ke ofte ni uzez parafrazi quale: Downsizing: Diminuto di employataro Outsourcing: Swicho ad externa provizeri "Globalization" (korporacionala) es global/esko (la procedo generala) o global/igo (intenca ago da guvernerii, komerci ec.) Por "download" me prizas des/kargar, e por "upload" (ad)/kargar Por "text messaging" me opinionas ke ni povus uzar la sufixo -agar, do: text-mesaj-agar, o simple e kurte: text-agar: Me textagis mea amiko - I texted (sent an SMS text message to) my friend Pri adopto di nova vorti, me opinionas ke omna problemi es solvebla per diversa manieri. Me simpatias pri l'enorma tasko di la Linguala Sekretario. Quale expresesis che la Konfero en Grossbothen 2003, vua es tasko di akademio, ne un homo (mem la maxim energioza e talentoza). Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "History is an anomaly. History is a complete fluke. Its a brief episodic transitional phenomenon. Its not going to leave more than a centimeter of deposition in the strata of this planet. It is the platform from which we will launch the collective soul of our species out into the higher life of the galaxy." - Terence McKenna >From: Robert >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [ido] Mea danki >Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:49:28 GMT > > >Kara Kevin, > >Me esas tirata en plura sinsi. Unlatere la stoko dil vortaro Ido-Angla da >Dyer exhaustesas. Esas bezono por nova (e plu moderna) remplaso. Simile pri >la vortolibro Ido-Germana. > >Du, por helpar ti qui preparas vortari por altra lingui, anke por li esas >necesa preparar moderna listo di Idala vorti existanta, kun tradukuri kom >bazo por preparar tradukuri en altra lingui. Dyer esis maxim bona en 1924, >ma nulo kompleta existas nun. Pesch havas erori ed omisi. Kelkfoye lu mem >donis formo ja remplasita (lu donis abstraktar vice abstrakta, artilrio >vice artilerio). Existas nula kompleta moderna listo. > >Tri, ni bezonas multa nova vorti. Me traktas centi. Ofte (tamen esas ula >honorinda ecepti), la propozanti ne donas tradukuri, ma simple demandas >nova vorti sen ofrar tradukuri. > >Konsiderez la vorto *situaciono. Supozeble la Angla tradukuro esas >"situation", vorto qua tamen havas cirkume 9 senci. Qua senci korespondas >al senco dil propozata nova Idala vorto? Nulu indikis. Se on donus en nova >vortaro: situaciono (Ido) = situation (Angla), quale preparanto di Rusa o >Greka vortaro savos qua senci dil Angla vorto uzar? Quale mem parolanto dil >Angla linguo savus? Forsan esas evidenta al uzanto di nova vorto qua sencon >lu intencas, ma ne esas evidenta en vortaro sen adjunto di klarigo. > >Por evitar la sama problemo qua nun afrontas ni e me pri ula vorti neklare >adoptita en antea yari, pri la neklare propozita "situaciono" me serchis >diversa vortolibri por trovar senco qua (1) esas bezonata, (2) esas >internaciona, por indikar en singla linguo la senco quan lektanto (qua >parolas forsan nur ta linguo) bezonus trovar en vortaro por savar quo fakte >esas "situaciono". > >Serchante en la maxim kompleta vortolibro Angla-Esperanto quan me havas >(607 pagini, 1995) por la vorti quin vu mencionas, "software" esas >"softvaro" ma ta vorto, segun "La Nova Plena Ilustrita Vortaro de >Esperanto" (2002) esas evitinda; ol preferas "programaro". Me ne trovas la >vorti "download", "text-messaging", "globalisation", "downsizing" od >"outsourcing". Forsan en ula kazi li esas generale uzata nur dum lasta dek >yari, ma ne en omna kazi. > >Konsiderante la fakto ke Esperanto havas multe plu multa helpanti kam Ido, >la fakto ke dum multa yari on grandparte neglektis modernigar la vortaro di >Ido, e la fakto ke nia vortolibri esas generale anciena ye yardeki, vu >povas forsan perceptar la grandeso dil tasko nun koram ni. Me facas to quan >me povas facar, laborante tre multe. Ni ne vivas en perfekta mondo. > >Esas multa kazi ube vorto en un linguo ne esas tradukebla aden altra lingui >per nur un vorto. Ka ne suficus por vu, adminime provizore, "kopiar (o >recevar) adhike" (to download), "kopiar (o sendar) adibe" (to upload), >"(texto-)mesajo-sendo" (text-messaging), "globaligo (komercala)" >(globalisation), "diminuto di employato-nombro" (downsizing), e "kompro de >externa livranto" (outsourcing)? > >Kordiale, > >Robert. > >_______________________ >kjford@allstream.net skribis: > >Estimata samideani: >� >Mea sincera danki a Goncalo e Robert�qui replikis tante longe a mea >questioni. Forsan mea expektadi por linguo internaciona esas kelke >diferanta kam la vua. >� >Pri la unesma, me ne trovas granda problemo kun la du vorti (semblante, >arozar = to water�(angla); aspergar = to sprinkle, spray (angla) ), ma se >on volas klarigi la defini, to esus bona. Mea 'konsterno' esas ke ni okupas >ni pri ica min importanta questioni dum ke la moderna vortaro di Ido >konstante�mankas. Ni bezonas oficaligar (angla) "software, download, VCR, >DVD, text-messaging, globalisation, downsizing, outsourcing", edc. edc. �� >� >Me ne sucias ka ni adoptas "komputoro", "komputero" o "komputilo" - lo >importanta es ke ni ofrez vortaro moderna e kompleta al mondo, same kam >Esperanto od Interlingua. Goncalo skribis: "Ka ne es preferinda ne quik >oficaligar propozata vorto......"� To semblas racionala til ke me memoras >ke la mondo ja havis komputori plu kam triadek yari ante nun !!��Quante >longa es "quik"? Ka ni intencas vartar plusa triadek yari ante decidar?� Se >ni esperas konkurencar kun la angla, o mem kun Esperanto, ulo mustas >chanjar. >� >Kevin����� > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1659 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91788 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 22:47:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2005 22:47:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO grove.numericable.net) (80.236.3.112) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2005 22:47:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 12553 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2005 22:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by grove.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 25 Mar 2005 22:47:05 -0000 Message-ID: <005901c5318d$59e8b5a0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <20050324032338.EKLO22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> <002c01c530dc$82787d40$a8c217c3@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:52:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara linguolistani, Me aprobas la propozo de Gon�alo Neves pri la nova sufixo -ator vice la sufixo -or pri mashino od aparato nam ol permisus plubonigar la regulozeso di la linguo. Tale on povus formacar nova vorti kom : *eskalatoro : (F) escalator, escalier m�canique (A) escalator (H) escalera m�vil (I) scala mobile netigatoro *inkubatoro : F: incubateur A: incubator G: inkubator , H : incubadora , I : incubatrice Ma konseque multa vorti devus modifikesar exemple ti formacita kun -mashino od -aparato kom : * inkubatoro vice kov-aparato Ed anke kelka altra vorti kom : *kompresatoro vice kompres-ilo Ma pri *komputoro me kredas ke ca vorto esas preferinda vice *komputatoro pro la neutileso di verbo *komputar. Tale on povus havar : *komputor-o, -izar same kam motor-o, -izar o *procesor-o, -izar Do me deziras rapida decido dil ULI pri ca propozo di Gon�alo Neves por avancigar nia bela linguo ! Kordiala saluti ad omni de Bretonia Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1660 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86805 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2005 06:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2005 06:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2005 06:06:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2005 06:06:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2005 06:06:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 06:05:54 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002c01c52f20$26275ce0$b2c217c3@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 5907 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Gon=E7alo, Se me ne eroras, en vua texto originala vu konsideris du = aspekti dil verboformo en -abas: 1.- l'existo ipsa di tala tempo verbala, = e 2.- kaze ke onu ya aceptus tala tempo, la formo quan olu adoptas en Ido.= En mea respondo, me nur opinionis pri l'unesma aspekto, indikante ke se= gun me (subjektale, vu dicas, e vu justesas) la Prezento Antea montras ide= o suficante diferanta de la Pasinto en -is por justifikar olua existo apar= ta. Quale me mencionis, ya la Hispana havas la sama uzado di la Pasinto A= ntea, ma ne en Arjentinia, ube la du formi ("le=ED" ed "he le=EDdo") mixes= as ed uzesas preske interchanjeble. Do ne esas pro ke me juas tala difero = en mea parolado diala ke me volas la sama kozo en Ido, ma kontree pro ke m= e ne havas olu, e pro ke me valoreskis olu kande me lerneskis l'Angla, me = pensas ke tala kozo povus esar utila. Parenteze, me ne savas pri la Portug= alana en Portugal, ma ya en *Brazil. E se me ne eroras, ibe, quale en Arje= ntinia, la tempo verbala korespondanta anke ne uzesas, ma olua nuanco indi= kesas per la vorto "j=E1" apud la Pasinto Simpla (Eu j=E1 li), ka to ne es= as vera? Irgakaze, Ido havas la posiblajo ofrar multa traiti ne kom obliga= la ma kom selektebla. On povas selektar exemple, por indikar subjekto ned= efinita, la maniero Franca: "On vendas domo", la maniero Angla: "Domo esas= vendata" o la maniero maxim simila a la Hispana: "Domo vendesas". Pro quo= ne permisar ke ti qui volas uzar la Prezento Antea povez uzar olu, e ti q= ui ne bone komprenas olua uzado darfez durar uzanta la Pasinto Simpla? Kon= siderez ke esas aserto en Linguistiko ke onu sempre pozedas savo pasiva di= kelka reguli linguala, qua permisas komprenar olua aplikado, mem kande ol= ne kapabligas aplikar oli korekte. Altravorte, mem ti qui ne bone kompre= nas kande uzar la Prezento Antea povas facile desenkodexigar olua uzado da= altra Idisti, o mem "tradukar" ol aden la Pasinto Simpla, quale vu ipsa a= gas, kande vu renkontras ta tempo. Koncerne la formo quan devus havar la P= rezento Antea, me skribis ke me ne certesas ke la formo nuna esas la maxim= korekta. Irgakaze, me duras pensar ke ca tempo ya esas ulaspeca prezento = (tale ol es nomizita en Ido, ma anke en l'Angla, exemple: Present Perfect)= . Ol esas prezento, pro ke, quale me skribis antee, ne interesas la fakto = pasinta ipsa, ma lua konsequaji prezenta. To montresas, meaopinione tre k= lare, en la formo "longa" di ca tempo: "me lektabas" =3D "me esas lektinta= ". Altravorte, "me esas nun homo qua montras konsequaji di lektir antee, e= n tempo nedefinita e neimportanta". Parenteze, nur por ICA uzado me dezira= s ica tempo: por nuanco irgakaze explicite indikata dal formo "longa", di = qua la formo en -abas esas simpla "abreviuro". Vu skribis: > Me respekto= ze devas konfesar ke me tote ne komprenas vua rezono. Me questonis: ube es= la du agi o standi por ke on povez komparar li? E vu ne respondizis la qu= estiono. Vu parolas pri =ABulo qua eventis ante altra kozo=BB e pri =ABdue= sma kozo=BB qua =ABne bezonas expresesar=BB. Ma qua kozo? On parolas ne pr= i =ABkozi=BB, ma pri agi o standi, nam irga verbo expresas nur ago o stand= o. Qual kozi? En la frazo =ABla puero lektabas libro=BB, ube es la du agi = (nam 'lektar' es ago-verbo) por ke on povez komparar li? Existas nur un ag= o (la ago lektar). Tote ne importas kad ol havas konsequaji en la prezento= o en la futuro. Koncernesas nur un ed unika ago, quan la parolanto ne pov= as komparar ad altra ago, nam ica ne existas. Or la sufixo -abas uzesas po= r komparar agi o standi. Konseque on ne darfas uzar ol en tala frazi." Fa= kte, me ne konkordas ke la tempi antea uzesas por komparar du agi o standi= , ma por indikar simpla anteeso di un ago o stando, kompare ad instanto qu= a nenecese esas reprezentata da ago o stando. E por sugestar ke en ta dues= ma instanto, l'ago o stando antea havas konsequaji. Olu povas esar repreze= ntata da simpla tempal indiko, quale me skribis. Quoniam me trovis nula vo= rto plu bona inkluzanta omna ta posiblaji por la duesma elemento a qua kom= paresas la tempi antea, me uzis la vorto tre nedefinita "kozo". Ma yen exp= liko, espereble, plu bona: La Pasinto Antea (me lektabis) indikas ke la l= ekto eventis ante altra kozo qua eventis (sualatere) en la pasinto. To es,= ni establisas instanto pasinta (determinata da ago, o simple kom punto en= la tempo, segun simpla mezuro tempala) e ni dicas ke ulo (takaze, la lekt= o) eventis ante ta instanto pasinta establisita. Quale me skribis antee, = ne oportas komparar la lekto ad altra ago, ma simple ad altra instanto pos= a: -Kande l'elektro interuptesis, me lektabis omno. (lekto > interupto el= ektrala [du agi]) ma: -Ye 10 kloki, me lektabis omno (lekto > 10 kloki [u= n ago ed un instanto determinita per la kloko]) La sola kozo importanta e= sas ke la duesma punto di komparo esez pasinta (kompare al instanto kande = on parolas). En la Futuro Antea eventas ulo simila. Ed anke en la Kondicio= nalo Antea. En omna ta kazi, ni bezonas establisar du punti por komparo. = To eventas pro ke omno quon ni povas presavar pri la duesma instanto esas = ke olu esas pasinta, futura o hipotezala (kondiciono indikata dal nomo tem= pala, e dal verbo "esar" en la formo "longa"). L'instanto kande ni retrore= gardas, por savar quo eventis esas instanto pasinta, futura o hipotezala. = En la Prezento Antea do, on bezonas nur un punto explicita por komparo, pr= o ke l'altra punto esas evidenta: la tempo nuna. Ni sempre regardas addope= de nun, de la prezento. Yen la duesma punto por komparo, o plu bone por o= bservo. Fine, me volas dankegar vua koncepti ed opinioni personala pri me,= qui esas ankore plu valoroza, pro ke li provenas de Idisto tante importa= nta. Vi omna standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. P.S.: Parenteze, quo eventis= al aspekto generala dil forumi che Yahoo? Me devas devinar la lasta tri l= iteri di singla lineo en la mesajo quan me ipsa skribas! From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1661 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84317 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2005 16:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2005 16:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2005 16:15:41 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:15:41 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.201 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:15:41 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:15:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2005 16:15:41.0325 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E2ECBD0:01C5321F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Me opinionas ke ni devas esar tre cirkonspekta pri adopto di sufixo -oro (ex. en *komput/oro). Unesme, ni bezonus adminime du formi: -oro ed -atoro. Duesme, quale la senco diferus kam ta di -ilo? Me nun preferas *komputoro kam komput/ilo, ma ni bezonas nur adoptar komputor/o kom nova radiko. Me es nule konvinkita ke ni bezonas inventar nova sufixo. Pri -abas, ni uzez ol spareme e nur kande ni povas expresar per -abas senco ne-expresebla per -is. La precipua kazo es ago o stando pasinta quo duras en la nuna tempo. Exemple: Me prizis artaji [olim, ma ne plus] Me prizabas artaji [depos yari, ed ankore nun] Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1662 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64075 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2005 13:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2005 13:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2005 13:49:09 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35D0567F for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:19:05 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22808-02 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:18:43 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C41A856C6; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:18:40 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C10D567F for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:18:40 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:18:40 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Pro quo -abas es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Richard, Ye 25 Mar 2005, richsteven2000 skripis: > 1. Me opinionas k= e existas variado inter diferanta Europala lingui., Ta fakto esas la racio= no ke on evitez esforcar imitar la propra manieri di ta lingui: li diferas.= > (posible desfavoroza ad interlinguisti). En angla on uzas la "-ab" > o = "have" formo tre freque. La simpla tempi "-as, -is.-os" semblas > tro abrup= ta o mem nepolita. Por la pasinta tempo, en Francia on > ofte uzas la impe= rfekto ma en Hispania (adminime en Mexikia) on uzas > la preterito. Ta vor= ti esas tre erorigiva. Tote nultempe, Angla parolanto dicas "I have seen y= our mother yesterday". Tote sempre lu dicas "I saw your mother yesterday".= Ma sempre en la Franca on dicas ta signifiko per "J'ai vu votre m=E8re hi= er". Anke, en la Angla, on povas dicar: "I have seen your mother, and she = agrees" o: "I saw you mother yesterday, and she agreed". Ica uzi esas mult= e tro komplexa e desfacila pri linguo internaciona. Tale, en Ido on uzez la= simpla preterito ne segun volo, ma a la grado posibla. On TOTE NULTEMPE d= arfas dicar "Me vidabas vua matro hiere". La raciono esas, ke esas ne nur p= osibla, ma mem tre facila, dicar, "Me vidis vua matro hiere", e ke tala (qu= ale la unesma) uzado esas obstaklo ad uli (inkluzante, pri ca exemplo, ad A= nglaparolanti). Certe, existas situesi ye qua on apene povas sen miskompre= no uzar la simpla preterito. Beaufront (KGD) donas la exemplo: "Me esis m= anjanta, kande vu arivis". (Ne, "Me manjis...") Hike la bezono esas klara.= > 2. La helpo-verbo. En la Raporto di Akademio (1937), quan vu > sendubit= e havas, Sri. Roze, e De Beaufront apogis "-abas" Anke > Sro. Quarfood = dicis, "ni devas aplikar bona reguli, quin ni ja > havas, maxim senecepte. = La tipo"venabas =3D esas veninta, D: ist > gekommen, E: has come" bone solv= as la desfacileso pri "havar" > ed "esar", kom helpo-verbo. La sintezala f= ormi en Ido sempre plu > uzesas. Li esas vere komoda." Hodie me kredas ke = la sintezala formi > esas min uzita vice la simpla tempi..La uzado di "-ab= as" semblas > utila quale "mivoyala domo". La pioniri ne permisis "-abas".= Kad esis progreso ke diferanta trupo aprobis ol en 1937? O ka saje on uz= ez "-ab-" formi rare, ed evitez "-abas"? Ta febla aprobo nur permisas, tot= e ne postulas ke on uzez ol. On ne bezonas sequar Quarfood. > En angla, a= dminime, la preiranta verbo povas esar en la prezenta o > pasinta tempo, ma= la sequanta verbo > kun "-abas" kustume referas a la "recenta pasinta". >= `Ka l'autobus arivas? Desfortunoze vu faliabas ol.' > `Ka l'autobas arivis= ? Desfortunoze vu faliabas ol.' En mea matrala linguo on dicas "you missed= it" (vu faliis ol). Anke, kun signifiko nule explikeble diferanta, on pov= as dicar "you have missed it". La sento di la vorti esas poke diferanta, l= a senco di la vorti esas nule diferanta. Ta duesma uzado esas ne-necesa, ko= mplexa, ed evitinda. La fakto ke ol esas posibla en la Angla tote ne esas = raciono permisas ol en Ido. Ido ne esas la Angla. Yen la KGD, sub-noto (3= ) ye pagino 46: (3) L'Idal preterito expresas omna indikatival tempi = pasinta qui ne esas entea pasinti: "imparfait", "pass=E9 d=E9fini"= , "pass=E9 ind=E9fini" di la Franca. Ica lasta linguo havas, pri = la pasinta tempi dil indikativo, distingo qua ne korespondas a ta = dil cetera lingui. Esabus eroro imitar lu en Ido, e tante plu = ke ol ne esas reale necesa. Se stranjero dicas a Franco: =AB je = voyais votre m=E8re hier, [o:] je vis, [vice] j'ai vu votre m=E8re = hier : me vidis vua matro hiere =BB kad ta Franco ne komprenas = perfekte, ke la stranjero dicas vidir lua matro? To kompreniga= s, ke Ido povas kunfuzar la 3 tempi di la Franca en la tempo "-is"= (preterito) sen ula detrimento por l'ideo expresenda. Amikale, M= ichael Talbot-Wilson = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1663 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81099 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2005 14:23:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2005 14:23:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2005 14:23:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084B41414 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:53:09 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24191-02 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:52:52 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 352C23912; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:52:49 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5C21414 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:52:49 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:52:49 +0930 (CST) To: Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <006701c530cc$db3e9320$bf60dc51@landloic> Message-ID: References: <006701c530cc$db3e9320$bf60dc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] baleno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Loic, On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > > Kara Linguolistan= i, > > Robert skribis kelka dii ante : >> Yen altra exemplo ube me ne konse= ntas kun Dyer qua donas simple: >> "balen-o: whale" sen qualifiko. > > Cout= urat e De Beaufront donas simple : > baleine : baleno; (fanon) barto > >> T= amen, se baleno =3D F baleine (quale dicas latra vortari), A whale nur part= e koincidas kun baleno. >> Semblas a me ke F baleine =3D A baleen whale, wh= alebone whale. > > La tradukilo SYSTRAN donas : A whalebone =3D F fanon de= baleine > E mea franca dicionario LaRousse donas: > F: baleine =3D 1) mamm= if=E8re marin du groupe des c=E9tac=E9s (marala mamifero di grupo di cetace= o kun la kashaloto e la delfino) > 2) baleine de parapluie= ( A : umbrella rib) [pro ke forsan ol fabrikesis olim kun barto di baleno = ( F: fanon, A :pennon ) ?] > > Quale tradukar en Ido F: baleine de paraplui= e, A : umbrella rib ? > >> La Angla "whale" esas koncepto qua inkluzas ne n= ur la baleni ma anke la "toothed whales" (granda dentoza mamiferi aquala). = > Ma pro quo existas la angla vorto cetacea o cetacean ( F : c=E9tac=E9s, H= : cet=E1ceos, Ido : cetaceo ) ? > > Ka povus existar vera miskompreno kun = la vorto baleno por Angliani ? Tote no. En la Angla esas un vorto, "whale= ", ed en Ido esas un vorto, "baleno". La afero esas tote simpla. (La vor= to A. "cetacean" esas teknikala sinonimo qua on darfas desegardar.) La sen= co LaRousse deskriptas exakte la A. "whale". En la Angla on pluse uzas la = adjektivo "baleen" pri kriblizema baleni, e la adjektivo "toothed" pri mord= ema baleni (inkluzante la delfino). Ta fakto pri la Angla esas negrava afer= o pri Ido. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson [Non-text portions of this mess= age have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1664 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62180 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2005 18:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2005 18:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.54) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2005 18:20:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 90113 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Mar 2005 18:20:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20050327182032.90111.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.143] by web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:20:32 CEST Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:20:32 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: quala, quale, kom X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Samidean amiki: Me konstatas ke, generale, ni ne tote kontrolas la justa uzado di vorti quala "quala, quale e kom"... Kad ulu havas la kapableso ed afableso explikar a ni, per diversa exempli, quale interdiferas ta formi, ed ube oportas uzar singla ek oli? Me ipsa, kom pasable fresh Idisto, ne esas certa, ka me uzadas ta vorti juste o, quale uli ek ni, ne-juste. Predanko por via respondo. Mea printempal saluto flugez a vi omna! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1665 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96968 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 08:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 08:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.15) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 08:46:34 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 28 Mar 2005 00:46:34 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:46:33 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20050327182032.90111.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:46:33 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2005 08:46:34.0022 (UTC) FILETIME=[A52A2C60:01C53372] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] quala, quale, kom X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Partaka Me ipsa uzas la sequanta regulo por distingar inter 'quale' e 'kom': Se on intencas 'quale se', uzez 'quale' Se on intencas 'kom esante', uzez 'kom' To es, 'quale' signifikas stando di simileso, 'kom' signifikas stando di eso. Exempli: Il agas quale rejo [quale se il esus rejo] Il agas kom rejo [kom esante rejo] Vu aspektas quale me [simila kam me] On uzez 'quale' o 'quala' ante listo de exempli: Me prizas artaji, quale/quala pikturi, skulturi e literaturala verki On uzez 'quala' en klami, exemple: Ho, quala vento! Quala bela vestin vu portas! Ka co helpas? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: Partaka >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] quala, quale, kom >Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:20:32 +0200 (CEST) > > >Samidean amiki: > >Me konstatas ke, generale, ni ne tote kontrolas >la justa uzado di vorti quala "quala, quale e kom"... > >Kad ulu havas la kapableso ed afableso explikar a ni, >per diversa exempli, quale interdiferas ta formi, ed >ube oportas uzar singla ek oli? > >Me ipsa, kom pasable fresh Idisto, ne esas certa, ka >me uzadas ta vorti juste o, quale uli ek ni, ne-juste. > >Predanko por via respondo. >Mea printempal saluto flugez a vi omna! > > >P A R T A K A > > > > >Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! >http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ > > > >______________________________________________ >Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! >Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad >http://correo.yahoo.es > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1666 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 91353 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 15:24:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 15:24:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp2alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.142) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 15:24:38 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.58.226.105) by vsmtp2alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 4243F0AF0003920E for linguolisto@egroups.com; Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:16:57 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c533a9$5768c220$69e23a52@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:18:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Forsan -abas ne es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus En linguala problemi, maxim-multa-kaze me konkordas kun Gon�alo Neves. Me aprecias lua argumentado, rigoroza e freque sustenata da adequata citaji, e samtempe precozigita da tre bela literaturala stilo (1). Ca-foye, pri -abas me parte ne konkordas kun lu (vice, me preske tote konkordas kun habila e kompetenta Eduardo A. Rodi). Se me bone sintezas, Gon�alo Neves avancas tri motivi kontre l'uzado di -abas: a) la sufixo -ab ne uzesas sam-sence en -abis, -abos, -abus, konfronte -abas; do -abas pekas kontre l'unsenceso dil afixi; b) la dezinenco -as ne uzesas sam-sence en lektab-as, konfronte lekt-as... do -abas pekas kontre l'unsenceso dil dezinenci; c) -abas entote pekas kontre la facileso dil linguo. Me respondizos la tri punti un-ope, pos +premisir dokumente l'oficala stando di -abas (Partaka questionis pri to). ---------- ### OFICALA STANDO di -abas. Formo -abas aprobesis en 1947, pos kustumala diskuto e valida votado. PROGRESO 146 (1947), Linguala Suplemento, raportas: -abas (es -inta) ... Voto-stando til nun: 2 yes, 1 no. La diskuto duras. PROGRESO 147 (1947), Linguala Suplemento, raportas: -abas (es -inta) ... Voto-stando: 4 yes, 3 no, aprobita. IDO-VORTARO oficala, da Hans Cornioley 1965, havas: -ab- indikas kompozita tempo verbala: amabas, amabis, amabos, amabus... ---------- Ni venez a la tri punti da Gon�alo Neves. ### -abas PEKAS KONTRE L'UNSENCESO DIL AFIXI. <<< -ab- indikas anteeso relate altra ago o stando...en -abas mankas komparo inter agi o standi e pro to mankas anteeso...>>> [G. N.] Me kredas ke -ab- indikas simple anteeso, relate certena tempo plue o mine definita, e ke komparo inter agi e standi povas esar frequa e mem kustumala, ma ne necesa (2). Exemple, biografii freque iras tale: "XY naskabis en Paris, en quartero tre povra. Lua familio...". Omna-kaze, komparo o ne, kazi di perfekta simetreso (e unsenceso) di -abis, -abas, -abos es imaginebla sen-limite. "Esis dek kloki, ed el ankore ne arivabis". "Esas dek kloki, ed el ankore ne arivabas". "Esos dek kloki, ed el ankore ne arivabos, me parias". "Ni esis sola. Omni fugabis." "Ni esas sola. Omni fugabas." "Ni esos sola. Omni fugabos." Segun me, -abas nule pekas kontre l'unsenceso dil afixi, ma "manko" di -abas ya pekus kontre la simetreso e regulozeso. ### -abas PEKAS KONTRE L'UNSENCESO DIL DEZINENCI. L'argumento da Gon�alo Neves iras tale: -as es dezinenco dil prezento (unesma premiso); en -abas, -as es dezinenco dil pasinto recenta (duesma premiso); do -abas kreas absurda dusenceso (konkluzo). Segun me la febleso dil argumento rezidas en la duesma premiso. La duesma premiso es tro sika. Ol ne konsideras l' "aspekto" (en senco gramatikala) dil verbo (3). Gramatike l' "aspekto" verbala karakterizesas, inter altro, per la kompletigo (par-fino) o ne-kompletigo (ne-par-fino) dil ago expresata dal verbo. Segun "aspekto" l'expresuro "Petrus manjas" (aspekto ne-kompletigita) analizesas kom ago prezenta, dum lua efektigo; l'expresuro "Petrus manjabas" (aspekto kompletigita) analizesas kom rezulto prezenta di ago pasinta. "Petrus manjabas" equivalas: Petrus trovesas (nun) en la stando dil efektiginto l' ago manjar. Amba formi, "aspekto kompletigita" e "aspekto ne-kompletigita", es "prezento" (4). "Petrus manjabas", "Petrus manjabis", "Petrus manjabos" es rispektive "kompletigo prezenta", "kompletigo pasinta", "kompletigo futura" dil ago expresata dal verbo manjar (4). Cetere, se me ne eroras, en Angla la pasinto proxima (recenta) nomesas "present perfect". Se on konsideras, quale semblas justifikita, la "pasinto recenta o proxima" (-abas) kom "prezento perfekta" la dikotomio di -as paleskas til quaza esvano, e la peko kontre l'unsenceso venialeskas til quaza desaparo. ### -abas PEKAS KONTRE LA FACILESO. Hike me parte konkordas kun Gon�alo Neves. Me mustas konkordar, pro ke anke me bezonas reflekto-instanto koram -abas, trovante lua uzado kelke ne-spontana, konfronte la cetera konjugo. *Nihilomine me konsideras olua aprobo kom richigo dil linguo, e mem kom quaza neceseso, por plezanta simetreso. Pro quo renuncar "quaza *epistrofo" quale la sequanta? "Du monati ante nun tu donacis a me libro, ma me ja lektabis ol. Hodie tu donacas a me libro, ma me ja lektabas ol. Me konjektas ke kande tu donacos a me nexta libro, me ja lektabos ol." Ka vere on povas dicar plu bone? ---------- ### AFGHIReso. En le AFGHIR-lingui, e ne nur en olti, on trovas preske sempre la duopla voco, pasinto proxima / pasinto fora (5): A I have read the book / I read the book [to read: lektar] F j'ai lu le livre / je lus le livre [lire: lektar] G ich habe geliebt / ich liebte [lieben: amar, amorar] H yo he amado / yo am� [amar: amar, amorar] I io ho visto / io vidi [vedere: vidar] R ? (6) Sueda jag har skrivit / jag skrev [skriva: skribar] Ecepte, en la Latina ne existas du voci por la pasinto proxima e la pasinto fora. Por amba existas la perfekto, sive, che ula verbi, en formo sintezala (manducavi: me manjabas, me manjis), sive, che altra verbi dicita "deponenta", en formo kompozita o analizala (egressus sum: me ekirabas, me ekiris). Por komplikar ankor plue la kozi, en la Latina, per -abam, -abas... on konjugas l'imperfekto di ula verbi (quid manducabas? quon tu esis manjanta?). Forsan mea mikra ne-komforto pri -abas Idala venas ne-koncie de la konflikto kun la Latina. En la Greka antiqua esas du voci, rispektive por la pasinto proxima (lelyka: me desligabas) e la pasinto fora o aoristo (elysa: me desligis). Ma la konjugo en la Greka antiqua es tre partikulara. Pro quo me raportas AFGHIReso ca-relate? Nu, pro ke me pensas same kam Max Talmey, un ek la granda olima menti di Ido: "komuna traito dil naturala lingui, generale, esas por me decidiva por ke ol imitesez en la linguo internaciona. Nam probable existas en tala traito plua logikaleso profunda kam on pensas... " ---------- (1) On lektez la mesajo da Gon�alo Neves a Idolisto N. 6013, 9/Marto/2002, pri "Freque e ofte". Me sugestas imprimar ol, e tenar ol apude. [Remarkez la iba *hipotipozo: "Or nula libro povas kontenar omna nuanci, omna kolori e koloriti de la arbori, arbusti e herbi, omna plaudi e rotoli dil naturo, omna odori e gusti dil enti qui populizas ol, omna varianti dil pulsanta e bunta fenomeno qua es la vivo."] (2) Me evitas enduktar koncepti quala "lo tacita", "lo sub-surfaca", "lo sub-jacanta" por ne enirar minita feldo tro filozofiala. (3) "Aspekto" dil verbo es propreso dil verbo, relatanta la maniero egardar, da la parolanto, l'ago o stando expresata dal verbo. (4) Vortopa traduko de la "Dictionnaire de Linguistique", da J. Dubois, M. Giacomo et al., Librairie Laroussse, Paris. (5) Uzado di la du voci, pasinto proxima e pasinto fora, varias de linguo a linguo. Exemple en la Franca la pasinto proxima esas granda-parte remplasinta la pasinto fora. Plu-mikra-grade to es eventanta ank en l'Italiana. (6) Semblas ke, en la konjugo Rusa, "aspekto" dil verbo es fundamentala, multe plue kam en le cetera AFGHIR. Adequata konfronto mustas esar tre desfacila. ---------- GLOSARIO. *Epistrofo: repeto di ul expresuro ye fino dil frazo (figuro retorika). A epistrophe F �pistrophe G Epistrophe, Epiphora H ep�strofe I epistrofe R epifora *Hipotipozo: vivoza pitoreska deskripto (figuro retorika). A hypotyposis F hypotypose G Hypotypose H hipotiposis I ipotiposi R ? ---------- P.S. Lasta-tempe me neglijis mea hobio linguala, favore di mea hobio matematikala, anke pro ke mea lasta esayo linguala "Verbo Ergativa" es vartanta de plue kam yaro la promisita, en ica forumo, publikigo en Progreso. Ecepte, ca-foye me ne povis rezistar la tento intervenar, per mikra kontributo, en la prezenta tro interesiva diskuto. En l'okaziono, me forsan ank expozos en aparta mesajo gracioza enigmato logikal/matematikala, kaze ke kelku prizas ca genero di kozi, por qui me trovas Ido vere apta, probable pro lua tre logikoza strukturo. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1667 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64883 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 19:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 19:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 19:28:59 -0000 Received: from dsl-217-199-78-171.berlikomm.net[217.199.78.171] (helo=[217.199.78.171]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwh2-1DFztb06Vg-0008Mx; Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:27:31 +0200 Message-ID: <4247BC54.7050204@idolinguo.de> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:12:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de Cc: Vlado Yakovenko , Uli-Ido , ULI , Tazio Carlevaro , Ronald Bijtenhoorn , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rodrigo_Portela_S=E1nchez?= , Robert Pontnau , Richard Stevenson , Raphael Pinson , "R. B. Carnaghan" <100024.1005@compuserve.com>, Pracrito , Philippe Cloutier , Partaka Adrian , Miguel Lopez , Michael Talbot-Wilson , Matti Kassi , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Laval=E9e?= , Manfred Magin , Mailingliste Geylesidist , Loic Landais , Linguolisto , Kevin Ford , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kerstin_=C5kerlund?= , Kerstin , Katarzyna Tempczyk , Kai Salvesen , Janna Reunova , James Chandler , Ingrid Suprayan , Ido-Portugues , IdoNederland , Idolisto , Ido-Italiana , Idohispania , Idoespanyol , Ido-Angla , Hans Stuifbergen , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnter_Schlemminger?= , Geraldo Boz Junior , Frank Kasper , Fernando Zangoni , Fernando Tejon Rubial , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Tej=F3?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?n?= , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferdinand_M=F6ller?= , "Eduardo A. RODI" , Don Gasper , David Mann , David G Weston , Christophe Gaubert , Carmelo Mico , CAIN , Brad Philpot , Antonio Padilla , Antonio Padilla , Alfred Neussner , Adrian Pastrana References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Eberhard Scholz Subject: Re: [germanlinguaidist] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976 X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Marion skribis : >Voluntez skribar pri paskala uzaji di vua lando. > > > > Pos longa vintrala vetero nun komencis la printempo che ni dum la pasko. Lente l�arbori komencas burjonifar. Omnayare ni probas recitar ek la poemo da Goethe: La paskala promeno( ek Faust) " De glacio esas liberigita fluvio e rivereti, per la gracioza , viviganta aspekto di la printempo ... ". En mea patrio - nordesta Germania - existas sequanta kostumo: Ante ke la suno levas su ,onu tote tacante queras aquo de la fluanta rivereti od altri. Onu lavas su e drinkas kelke de aquo. Onu nu kredas divenar sana e bela. La desfacilajo esas la quero d �aquo kun amiki, pro ke l �unesma paroli darfas parolita erste pos la drinko e lavado. En mea yuneso ni multe joyis pri ica kostumo. Paskala saluti ad omni Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1668 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13684 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 21:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 21:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 21:52:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6513A8A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:22:23 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26486-09 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:22:05 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 995CE53C6; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:22:01 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562043A8A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:22:01 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:22:01 +0930 (CST) To: LinguoListo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Chanjemeso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara listani, Fenomeno qua ni vidas, esas deziro adjuntar plusa gramatiko o vorti ad Ido por ke ol plue imitez nia propra lingui. La nuna diskuto pri plu larja uzo di -ab- esas exemplo. On volas skribar "me vidabas vua matro hiere" pro ke la uzado esas lo nia propra. Ma la projeto pri Ido tote ne esis imitar omna o multa naturala lingui: ne por komunikez per sama vortopa uzado, ma kontree, por permisez a ni komunikar la senco. Do on skribis ke multa pasinti esas ne-necesa, pro ke omni komprenas omna li quaze la simpla preterito. Ma nun, semblante, on volas adportar plu komplexa gramatiko, ne ek neceso, ne por komunikar nova logikale explikebla e distingebla senco, ma por imitar altra lingui. Kad Ido povas transvivar lo? Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1669 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86953 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 22:06:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 22:06:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 22:06:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 85187 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2005 22:06:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20050328220629.85185.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.58.35.46] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:06:29 CEST Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:06:29 +0200 (CEST) To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c53329$3cb381c0$f2c217c3@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [ido] Nil(o) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Gon�alo! --- Goncalo Neves skribis: > Kar amiki, > > La nuna mesajo ne parolos pri -abas, quankam me ne > ja abas-is la brakii... O plu amuzive: quankam me ne ja abasabas la brakii... > (La recenta mesaji adjuntis ya interesanta argumenti > ed idei, precipue la detaloza e ponderinda mesajo da > Eduardo. Me intencas retrovenar al lico, ma nun me > bezonas respirar e reflektar.) > > Dume me havas questiono. En longa traduko me bezonas > multfoye uzar la nomo dil maxim longa fluvio en > Afrika. Me hezitas inter du formi: 'Nilo' e 'Nil'. Se me bone memoras, ta nomo geografial publikigesis da Robert B. Carnaghan, sat multa tempo ante nun, che un ek ilua listi pri nova vorti adoptinda. To pensigas da me, ke ne ja existas ofical nomo por ita fluvio. La finalo per -o, en Nilo, ya jenus certena lingui natural, ma nulkaze Ido. Kontree: olta ne nur fitas tre bone ad olca, ma mem plukompletigas vorto tante kurta. Rheno, Danubio, Nilo. Latina: Nilus > Nilo (Idigita) Italiana, Hispana e Portugalana: Nilo Esperanto ed Interlingua: Nilo Ido-Wikipedio: Nilo Ek la Greka "Neilos" = valo fluvial (se me ne eroras) Pluse, se me ne mismemoras, existas vorto quala "ni'ilaa" che la linguo Hindia (forsan anke en la Farsia e la Sanskrita), olqua signifikas "blua" ed olquan me relatas ulmaniere al fluvio Nilo, malgre ke, segun semblo, la nuna nomo Araba por "blua", esas "azraq", kontre ke olta por la fluvio, "an-niil". Ka ne es plu certa, ke existas koloro qua, en la Hispana, nomizesas "azul anyil" (blua)? Meajudike, la maxim bon Ido-nomo por ta fluvio: NILO. Amikal tilbaldo ad omnu! P A R T A K A > Yen la doco da KGD (� 23, p. 27): �Nur la nomi di > kelka monti, mari o fluvii internaciona (quin nia > lingui ne skribas same) recevas l'Idal ortografio, > por evitar pri oli divergi jenanta di skribo e di > pronunco: Alpi, Blanka Monto, Blanka Maro, Reda > Maro, Nigra Maro, Kaspia Maro, Kaspio; Maro > Mediteranea, Mediteraneo; Atlantiko; Pacifika > Oceano, Pacifiko; Glacial Maro, Oceano; Rheno, > Danubio.� > > Nu, quankam KGD ne mencionas la nomo dil koncernata > fluvio, la ofrita "regulo" e la du exempli di > fluvio-nomi ('Rheno', 'Danubio') igas me konjektar > ke lua apta formo en Ido esus 'Nilo'. > > Tamen che Dyer on trovas dufoye la formo 'Nil': > > �Nil(e) depozas omnayare slamo fekunda� (p. 65, > artiklo pri 'depoz/ar') [segun la sama dicionario > (p. 106), la slamo devus esar ne fekunda ma fertila] > > �La fonti di Nil� (p. 112, artiklo pri 'font/o�). > > Me konfesas ke ca formo 'Nil' multe plezas a me. > Tamen me deziras uzar la maxim korekta formo. Quon > vi opinionas? > > Kordiale, > > Gon�alo Neves Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1670 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38950 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 01:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2005 01:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly02.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.212) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 01:16:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 22014 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 01:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.197]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly02.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 01:16:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 449 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 01:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.180.121]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 01:16:53 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Tue, 29 Mar 2005 02:21:30 +0100 Message-ID: <005301c533fd$a3191680$79b417c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <20050327182032.90111.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 02:21:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] quala, quale, kom X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves > Me konstatas ke, generale, ni ne tote kontrolas > la justa uzado di vorti quala "quala, quale e kom"... Por korekte uzar ta vorti oportas komprenar ne nur lia bazala senci ma anke lia funcioni en la frazi. Por faciligar mea analizo me preferas egardar ta vorti funcionope: 1) Funciono questionanta: Bazala senco: quala? = di qua sorto? = quasorta? quale? = en qua maniero? = quamaniere? ['kom' ne havas ca funciono] 1.a) Direta questioni: Exempli: Q: QualA es tua filiino? R: El es belA. Q: QualE vu standas? R: Me standas bonE. Komento: La dezinenci di 'quala' e 'quale' indikas ipse ke l'unesma havas adjektival naturo e do karakterizas substantivo, dum ke la duesma havas adverbal naturo e do karakterizas verbo. Konseque, kande on questionas per 'quala', on respondas per adjektivo; kande on questionas per 'quale', on respondas per adverbo. 1.b) Nedireta questioni: Exempli: Q: �Me ne savas quala es tua fillino...� R: Nu, el es bela. Q: Vua patro ne dicis a me quale vu standas... R: Nu, me standas bone. Komento: Sama rezono kam supere. 2) Funciono klamanta: Bazala senco: quala! = qua sorto di! = quasorta! ['quale' e 'kom' ne havas ca funciono] Exempli: Quala vento! Me tote ne volas ekirar. Quala muliero! Me volas konoceskar el... 3) Funciono judikanta Bazala senco: quala = di la sorto di quale = en la maniero di kom = en la qualeso di = esante 3.1. Exempli pri 'quala': Homo quala Raul devus refuzar tala tasko. Lu opinionas ke ni darfas uzar vorti quala 'publisar', 'kindo', 'situaciono', edc. Komento: On ofte misuzas 'quale' en tala frazi. Tamen 'quale' havas karaktero adverbal e do expresas ne qualeso ma maniero. Or en la supera frazi tote ne parolesas pri maniero: �homo quala Raul� e �vorti quala 'publisar', 'kindo'� tote ne koncernas maniero. En l'unesma kazo on parolas pri la naturo, karaktero, qualeso di Raul: �homo quala Raul� = �homo di la sorto di Raul�. La sama rezono es aplikebla al duesma kazo. Tamen pro influo da lingui nacional on tendencas misuzar 'quale' en tala frazi. (Me suspektas ke me ipsa tale eroris ja plurfoye...) 3.2. Exempli pri 'quale': Quale mediko il kuracis me [= il ne es mediko ma kuracis me tale ke on povus pensar ke il es vera mediko] Quale patro me parolos a tu [= me ya ne es tua patro ma parolos a vua en patrala maniero] Tua matro sempre traktis me quale filio [= me ne es elua filio, ma el sempre traktis me tale ke on povus pensar ke me es elua filio] 3.3. Exempli pri 'kom': Kom prezidanto me elektis il [= me esis prezidanto ed en ta qualeso me facis la elekto] Me elektis il kom prezidanto [= mea elekto igis il prezidanto] Kom prezidanto me elektis il kom sekretario [ = me esis prezidanto ed en ta qualeso me facis elekto qua igis il sekretario] Kom patro me parolos a tu [= me ya es tua patro ed en ta qualeso me parolos a tu ] Me parolos a tu kom filio [= tu ya es mea filio e me parolos a tu egardante tua qualeso di filio] Kom patro me parolos tu kom filio [= me ya es tua patro ed en ta qualeso me parolos a tu, egardante tua qualeso di filio] 3.4: Exempli pri 'quale' e 'kom' en la sama frazo: Cafoye tu piktis ne kom artisto ma quale amatoro [= quankam tu ya es artisto, cafoye tua pikturo semblas da amatoro] Kom prezidanto Raul traktas Ioannes quale sekretario [= Raul es prezidanto e en ta qualeso il traktas Ioannes tale ke on povus pensar ke ilca es sekretario] 4) Funciono enuncanta: Acesora senco: quale = segun ke ['qual' e 'kom' ne havas ca funciono] Exempli: Quale vi savas, Ido es tre bela linguo En nia urbo, quale la historiisti demonstris lo, la Romani konstruktis du teatri Komento: En tala frazi 'quale' kelke eskartesas de sua bazala senco. Pro to esus forsan plu bona evitar tala enunco per kelke chanjar la frazi. Exemple, on povus dicar: Vi savas ke Ido es tre bela linguo La historiisti demostris ke la Romani konstruktis du teatri en nia urbo 5) Funciono komparanta Acesora senco: quale = same kam ['quala' e 'kom' ne havas ca funciono] Exempli: �Quale en nia lingui, l'adverbi esas nevariebla en Ido� [KGD, p. 56, � 51] Cavintre pluvegis, quale eventas omnavintre Komento: En tala frazi 'quale' kelke eskartesas de sua bazala senco. Pro to esus forsan plu bona evitar tala enunco per substitucar 'same kam' a 'quale'. Nu, fino. Me esperas ke mea expliko kelke helpos vu. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1671 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80389 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 05:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2005 05:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 05:16:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2005 05:16:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2005 05:16:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:15:34 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1011 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: -oro ed -atoro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Gon=E7alo, Multa danko por vua diligenta esforci en la tre ampla resp= ondo (kin A4 pagini!) a mea mesajo. Me par-reflektas pri vua komenti e nu= n decidas: Uzez la "razilo di Occam" La plu simpla la bona. (1) Nova suf= ixo ne esas necesa, "-oro" o "-atoro". (2) Multa facanta-vorti, ofte de an= gla, havas finalo di "-er". Nure remplasez la "-er" per "-oro". p.e. A: = computer=85..*komputoro. A printer=85..*imprimoro. A: scanner=85..*skanoro.= A: switcher=85..*swichoro A: divider=85..*dividoro, edc. ( Vorti kun "-or= " ne bezonas ula chanjo, p.e. A: processor=85..procesoro). (3) Certena tek= nologiala vorti havas finalo "-ator". Me kredas ke tala vorti ne havas o be= zonas sufixo ma esas vorti su ipsa. Li esas derivuri di verbo. p.e. A: gen= erate=85.generator, do Ido generatoro. (4) La sufixo "-ilo" ankore exista= s e forsan havas senco por plu antiquatra o manuala implementi e mashini..= Anke ol restas se la moyeno ne esas klara o nedefinita, p.e. recevilo o r= ecevoro. Amikale, Richard S. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1672 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49900 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 11:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2005 11:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 11:12:35 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE6156CD for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:42:28 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27182-07 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:41:58 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 92A1456CA; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:41:54 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754F037DB for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:41:54 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:41:54 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050328220629.85185.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20050328220629.85185.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Farsia (esis Re: Nil(o)) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye 29 Mar 2005, Partaka skribis: > Pluse, se me ne mismemoras, existas vorto quala > "ni'ilaa" che la linguo Hindia (forsan anke en la > Farsia Forsan me skribas stulte, pro ke me ne havas vortolibro che mea laborerio, de qua me skibas. En la Angla on savas ke la linguo Farsi, tale pronuncata, existas. Ma anke esas en India la religiani, le Parsi, qua, se me ne eroras, sequas la anciena religio Persiana. Apene povas esar difero inter la Persi e la Parsi. Anciene en la Angla on ne audeble distingis inter Berkeley / Barkly, Derby / Darby, e do, preske certe, inter Persi / Parsi. Anke konsonanto povas chanjar dum longa tempo, do forsan P -> F. (Ma en la Greka, anciena "Eucharisto" -> moderna "Efcharisto".) Do me questionas ka "Persi" e "Farsi" existas o devas existar single en Ido. Semblas a me ke "Farsia" esas, en plu justa Ido, "Persiana". Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1673 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85323 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 12:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2005 12:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 12:47:44 -0000 Received: from [192.168.2.102] (unverified [80.90.56.138]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 30325956 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:48:26 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:47:40 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200503291447.40462.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: informo od informaciono? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Me dubitas quale on dicas A: "informational", F: "informationnel" en Ido. A: "information" F: "information" edc. es "informo" en Ido (adminime segun la vortaro da Couturat/Beaufront), do ordinare on devus dicar "informala" por to qua relatas ad informo, ma to similas la vorto A: informal F: informel H: informal (qua signifikas altra kozo! -inform- erorigas ni hike). O ka ni (bone agas e) dicas "neformala" por ta lasta vorto? On anke povus uzar la vorto "informaciono" (vice "informo") por A: information, G: Information, F: information, H: informacion. Ol esus plu internaciona, ka ne? (Forsan informo es heredajo de Esperanto?) Lore on simple povus dicar "informacionala" (qua es ne-ambigua vorto). Ma lore on devus anke dicar "informacionar" vice "informar", ka ne? (quankam me preferas "informar"). Ne miskomprenez me, me ne intencas reformar irga kozo, ma me nur tre multe dubitas ca aspekto lingual. amikale, Steve Walesch From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1674 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96199 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 13:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2005 13:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 13:55:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2005 13:52:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2005 13:52:49 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:52:30 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 335 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Remplaso di la lingui di kontrolo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Ni povis konstatar pri la NIL (en Idolisto) ke l'Angla, la Franca, la Germana e la Rusa ne plus esas konsiderata kom lingui di kontrolo ma esas remplasata per l'esperanto, interlingua e la Portugalana kom apogi a la sola amba Hispana ed Italiana. Me persone refuzas ta nova filtro esperantista kontre l'Ido. Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1675 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38810 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2005 20:38:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2005 20:38:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.55) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2005 20:38:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 26580 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2005 20:38:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20050329203852.26578.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.58.35.46] by web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:38:52 CEST Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:38:52 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: quala, quale, kom... e danko! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara James: Me tre dankas tua helpema respondo. Kara Gon�alo: Me tre dankas tua helpema respondo. Vi esez certa, ke via komenti ed explikuri pri ca temo, esos util a ni omna! Saluti gratitudoza, e til balde! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1676 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2634 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2005 03:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2005 03:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.118) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2005 03:12:15 -0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050330031214.UYHG7126.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:12:14 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.139] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050330031214.DVUE8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:12:14 +1200 To: Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:12:14 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050330031214.DVUE8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.139]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Chanjemeso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Michael, Danko por vua komenti pri la uzado di =93-abas=94. Strikte vu= esas justa, ed olim =93-abas=94 esis neaceptebla. Tamen diversa europala l= ingui evidente uzas ta verbo-konstrukto e do ol divenis oficala. Vua exempl= o "Me vidabas vua matro hiere" esas des-saja uzado, pro la preciza tempo (h= iere). Ma =93Me vidabas vua matro=94 semblas aceptebla nam la tempo esas nu= n nepreciza ed aludas a tempo recente pasinta. Tala senco semblas utila, e = nia samideano James Chandler opinionas ke on devas uzar =93-abas=94 tre spa= reme, e nur se ta nuanco konvenas vice la simpla preterito. Koncerne la li= nguo di Iran: olim me docis lernanti de ta lando e li studiis por la GCE ex= ameno en Persa o Farsi (fakte la sama vorto, =91p=92 ofte chanjeskas ad =91= f=92). Ta linguo esas bazale Indoeuropala ma nun havas multa Araba vorti. F= arsi similesas Urdu di India. Amikale, richard S. > > From: Michael Tal= bot-Wilson > Date: 2005/03/29 Tue AM 09:52:01 GMT+12:00 >= To: LinguoListo > Subject: [linguo] Chanjeme= so > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1677 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94821 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2005 22:10:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2005 22:10:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2005 22:10:26 -0000 Received: from gr.189.162.7.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.162.7] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DGlOK-000PCO-KB for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:10:25 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:39:07 +0100 Message-ID: <200532922397.787374@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Farsia (esis Re: Nil(o)) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Michael, La personi nomata "Parsees" esis Persiani qui fugis, pro lia= religio (Angle: Zoroastrianism, fondita da, o nomizita pro, la viro Zoroas= ter) de Persia ad India en l;a 7ma ed 8ma yarcenti. Ne esus apta, ecepte fo= rsan en streta kuntexto, nun nomar li Persiani. En India li divenis ofte s= ucesoza komercisti, e kelkfoye on nomis li "la Judi di India". En la Angla= "Parsee" =3D "Parsi" (Persiana vorto por "Persiano") =3D c. "Guebre" (vort= o de la Franca, de la Persiana, qua signifikas irga ne-Mohamedano). La *Zo= roastrani havis sakra linguo, "Avestan". Tamen, enciklopedio pri lingui ne = havas "Parsee" en la indexo, do me ne trovis qua linguo esas nun parolata d= a ta *Parsii. Forsan anciena formo dil Persiana? La vorto "Farsi" esas Ara= ba, e venas de Persiana vorto. Pro quo Arabi dicas "f" vice "p", me ne sava= s. Irgakaze, pro quo on uzas la Araba vorto por moderna Persiana linguo esa= s questiono plu interesiva. Mea libri kontributis preske tote la supera in= formi, ma ne dicas omno! Kordiale, Robert. ________________________ Mic= hael Talbot-Wilson skribis: Ye 29 Mar 2005, Partaka skribis: >=A0Pluse, s= e me ne mismemoras, existas vorto quala >=A0"ni'ilaa" che la linguo Hindia = (forsan anke en la >=A0Farsia Forsan me skribas stulte, pro ke me ne havas= vortolibro che mea laborerio, de qua me skibas. En la Angla on savas ke l= a linguo Farsi, tale pronuncata, existas. =A0Ma anke esas en India la relig= iani, le Parsi, qua, se me ne eroras, sequas la anciena religio Persiana. = =A0Apene povas esar difero inter la Persi e la Parsi. =A0Anciene en la Angl= a on ne audeble distingis inter Berkeley / Barkly, Derby / Darby, e do, pre= ske certe, inter Persi / Parsi. Anke konsonanto povas chanjar dum longa te= mpo, do forsan P ->=A0F. (Ma en la Greka, anciena "Eucharisto" ->=A0moderna= "Efcharisto".) Do me questionas ka "Persi" e "Farsi" existas o devas exis= tar single en Ido. =A0Semblas a me ke "Farsia" esas, en plu justa Ido, "Per= siana". Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1678 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67238 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2005 22:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Mar 2005 22:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2005 22:10:27 -0000 Received: from gr.189.162.7.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.162.7] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DGlOM-000PCO-ET for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:10:26 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:13:17 +0100 Message-ID: <2005330231317.525919@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <002c01c530dc$82787d40$a8c217c3@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Gon=E7alo, Danko pro vua utila studio pri la posibla sufixi "or" ed "= ator". Esas un punto, pri (ne)utileso di verbo *komputar, kun qua me ne cer= te konsentas. Vu skribis: "=A0Me tote ne vidas en qua kuntexti on povus uz= ar la propozata vorto * =A0komputar. Me serchis e meditis ma trovis absolut= e nula. Ol sembas a =A0me tote balasta e neutila, propozata nur por justifi= kar neapta =A0sufixo (*-or)." Semblas a me ke to ne esas la sola motivo po= r propozar verbo. Hodie me serchis per Google, ed ol trovis la Angla vorti= : computer [aparato] - cirkume 238.000.000 foyi; computing [ago, derivita d= e verbo] - cirkume 49.900.000 foyi; computation [ago, derivita de verbo] - = cirkume 7.980.000 foyi. La vorti "computing" e "computation" aparas en tit= uli di fakultati e di konferi. La verbo esas evidente sat vaste uzata. Alt= ralatere, semblas ke altra lingui generale ne havas la verbo, e lia parolan= ti forsan ne vidas irga utileso di ol. Kompreneble, se ni havus "komputoro"= on povus derivar "komputoragar", ma ka to esus plu bona? Parenteze, hodie= me hazarde lektis citajo imprimita ye komenco di libro: "The purpose of co= mputation is insight, not numbers" (La skopo di *komputado esas kompreno, n= e nombri). Kordiale, Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1679 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20916 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2005 21:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Mar 2005 21:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2005 21:16:47 -0000 Received: from gr.189.162.117.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.162.117] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DH71x-000K2b-7G for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:16:45 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:18:59 +0100 Message-ID: <2005331221859.051100@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] baleno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Michael e Loic, Segun plura libri konsultita, la cetacei esas: 1. la = *misticeti (Lat. Mysticeti: precipue o sole baleni), qui esas bartoza, manj= as precipue planktono e havas du blovtrui, ed anke 2. la *odontoceti (Lat, = Odontocetae: delfini, kashaloti, narvali, marsuini, e.c.), qui esas dentoza= , manjas fishi e.c., e havas un blovtruo. La Angla vorto "whales" signifik= as: 1. La *misticeti, e 2. normale la plu granda *odontoceti. Tamen la vor= to esas uzata erore o misduktive en ula kompozita nomi. La "killer whale" (= Orcinus orca) ne esas "whale", e la "whale shark" esas tre granda sharko. (= Simile, en Ido, paser-huo esas sorto di huo e ne sorto di pasero.) Sorti d= i "whale" inkluzas: 1. "blue whale" (Balaenoptera musculus) - baleno. 2."ro= rqual" o "rorqual whale" (Balaenoptera physalus) - baleno, qua tamen manjas= mikra fishi - un di sis sorti di Balaeopteridae. 3. "grey whale" o "Califo= rnian whale" (Eschrichtius gibbosus) - baleno. 4. "right whales" (Balaenida= e) - plura sorti di baleno. 5. "humpback whale" (Megaptera novaeangliae) - = baleno. 6. "bottle-nosed whale" (Hyperoodon ampullatus) - un di 18 sorti di= Hyperoodontidae (o Ziphiidae) - omni *odontoceti. 7. "white whale" o "belu= ga" (Delphinapterus leucas) - *belugo - *odontoceto. 8. "sperm whale" o "ca= chalot" (un di 3 sorti di Physeteridae) - kashaloto - *odontoceto. Delfini= e marsuini esas *odontoceti ma generale ne konsiderata esar "whales". Tame= n, un libro dicas ke li esas anke "whales" ma di mikra sorto. Do, "whale" = esas koncepto plu vasta kam baleno, ma generale (tamen ne sempre) min vasta= kam cetaceo. La maxim proxima vorto en Ido esas certe cetaceo, ne baleno. = Kordiale, Robert. ________________________ Michael Talbot-Wilson skribi= s: Kara Loic, On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, Loic Landais wrote: > >=A0Kara Linguo= listani, > >=A0Robert skribis kelka dii ante : >>=A0Yen altra exemplo ube m= e ne konsentas kun Dyer qua donas simple: >>=A0"balen-o: whale" sen qualifi= ko. > >=A0Couturat e De Beaufront donas simple : >=A0baleine : baleno; (fan= on) barto > >>=A0Tamen, se baleno =3D F baleine (quale dicas latra vortari)= , A whale nur parte koincidas kun baleno. >>=A0Semblas a me ke F baleine = =3D A baleen whale, whalebone whale. > >=A0La tradukilo SYSTRAN donas : A = =A0whalebone =3D F fanon de baleine >=A0E mea franca dicionario LaRousse do= nas: >=A0F: baleine =3D 1) mammif=E8re marin du groupe des c=E9tac=E9s (mar= ala mamifero di grupo di cetaceo kun la kashaloto e la delfino) >=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) baleine de parapluie ( A : umbrella rib) [pr= o ke forsan ol fabrikesis olim kun barto di baleno ( F: fanon, A :pennon ) = ?] > >=A0Quale tradukar en Ido F: baleine de parapluie, A : umbrella rib ? = > >>=A0La Angla "whale" esas koncepto qua inkluzas ne nur la baleni ma anke= la "toothed whales" (granda dentoza mamiferi aquala). >=A0Ma pro quo exist= as la angla vorto cetacea o cetacean ( F : c=E9tac=E9s, H : cet=E1ceos, Ido= : cetaceo ) ? > >=A0Ka povus existar vera miskompreno kun la vorto baleno = por Angliani ? Tote no. =A0En la Angla esas un vorto, "whale", ed en Ido e= sas un vorto, "baleno". =A0 La afero esas tote simpla. (La vorto A. "cetac= ean" esas teknikala sinonimo qua on darfas desegardar.) La senco LaRousse = deskriptas exakte la A. "whale". En la Angla on pluse uzas la adjektivo "b= aleen" pri kriblizema baleni, e la adjektivo "toothed" pri mordema baleni (= inkluzante la delfino). Ta fakto pri la Angla esas negrava afero pri Ido. = Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson [Non-text portions of this message have bee= n removed] Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1680 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41190 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 00:30:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 00:30:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.55) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 00:30:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 73831 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Apr 2005 00:30:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20050401003034.73829.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.122.157] by web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 02:30:34 CEST Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 02:30:34 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Farsia (esis Re: Nil(o)) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Michael e cetera samskopani! Kelka yari ante nun, me renkontris le Parsi che Mumbai (Bombay), e la Persi, che certena punto en la Kurdistan Turka... Tamen, ni nule interkonversis pri l'origino di vorti quala Parsi, Persi e Farsi, ma nur pri la morto e la politeso (kun le unesma), e pri la Bahai-kredo e la posibleso di linguo neutra internaciona por la homaro (kun le duesma), nam li esis lojanta en Turkia kom refujanta Bahai-ani, di qui la religio interdiktesabis en 'Irania'. Me skribis "la Farsia" che mea mesajo, (same kam me povis skribir "la Persa"), nur pro ke me memoris, ke l' vorto "Farsi" relatas la chefa nuna linguo dal 'Iraniani', quan ni anke konocas per nomi quala "la Persa" o "la Persiana". Irgakaze, me ya havas nula specal intereso vindikar ed uzadar nomizo quala "la Farsia" o simila. Voluntez prenar ol kom nura puntual ed anekdotal expresuro. Til nexta komuniko! P A R T A K A --- Michael Talbot-Wilson escribi�: --------------------------------- Ye 29 Mar 2005, Partaka skribis: > Pluse, se me ne mismemoras, existas vorto quala > "ni'ilaa" che la linguo Hindia (forsan anke en la > Farsia Forsan me skribas stulte, pro ke me ne havas vortolibro che mea laborerio, de qua me skibas. En la Angla on savas ke la linguo Farsi, tale pronuncata, existas. Ma anke esas en India la religiani, le Parsi, qua, se me ne eroras, sequas la anciena religio Persiana. Apene povas esar difero inter la Persi e la Parsi. Anciene en la Angla on ne audeble distingis inter Berkeley / Barkly, Derby / Darby, e do, preske certe, inter Persi / Parsi. Anke konsonanto povas chanjar dum longa tempo, do forsan P -> F. (Ma en la Greka, anciena "Eucharisto" -> moderna "Efcharisto".) Do me questionas ka "Persi" e "Farsi" existas o devas existar single en Ido. Semblas a me ke "Farsia" esas, en plu justa Ido, "Persiana". Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1681 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40292 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 01:16:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 01:16:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 01:16:23 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id A091054BB for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:46:19 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32625-01 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:45:58 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AEA8654B7; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:45:55 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 740695472 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:45:55 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 10:45:55 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2005331221859.051100@SonyFX805> Message-ID: References: <2005331221859.051100@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] baleno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Robert, Semblas a me ke vu "pregas la questiono". Certe on povas decidar reservar "baleno" ad oli tala qui vu nomas "baleno" en vua mesajo, ma lo ne esas necesa. Altru ja skribis pri la dicionario Franca, qua, se me ne eroras, ne facas tala distingo. Anke la Angla (qua ne ordinare uzas la radiko "balen-"), ne facas tala distingo, ma uzas "whale" larje. Ke on nur rare nomas le "porpoise" e "dolphin" kom "whales" esas fakto pri la plu frequa uzado Angla, e signifikas tre, tre poka pri la linguo Ido. E certe, kande konvenanta, on inkluzas delphini inter la "whales" en la Angla. La naturala lingui amas havar un vorto por nomar un klaso, la grandega mamiferi merala. Naturale, povas existar membri qui ne esas tale granda. Homi povas komprenar tala detalo, e ne pensas ke ol kreas logikala stultajo. Certe, on povas decidar ke on mustas konsiderar ta mamiferi kom du klasi, ma to esas plu teknikala afero. La vortaro generala ne facas tala distingo. Se vu volas reservar "baleno" a sub-klaso di la baleni, voluntez propozar un vorto pri la tota klaso. Ma anke, voluntez komprenar ke "baleno" anke existas en Ido, e forsan kelka altra lingui, pri ta signifiko. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1682 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56703 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2005 20:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2005 20:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2005 20:20:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 20:20:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2005 20:20:26 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 20:20:24 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200503291447.40462.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2048 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Partaka" Subject: Re: informo od informaciono? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Bona vespero, Steve! Anke me' ne tote kontrolas ica temo, tamen me pensas, ke tua mesajo devas respondesar por nia komuna intereso e profito. --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Steve Walesch skribis: > Me dubitas quale on dicas A: "informational", F: "informationnel" en Ido. > > A: "information" F: "information" edc. es "informo" en Ido (adminime segun la > vortaro da Couturat/Beaufront), do ordinare on devus dicar "informala" por to > qua relatas ad informo, ma to similas la vorto A: informal F: informel H: > informal (qua signifikas altra kozo! -inform- erorigas ni hike). O ka ni > (bone agas e) dicas "neformala" por ta lasta vorto? Tarelate, existas nula problemo, nam la vorto "informala" ya relatas la radiko "inform-", kontre ke l' vorto "formala" divenas, efektive, "ne-formala" (ne-serioza) en Ido. > On anke povus uzar la vorto "informaciono" (vice "informo") por A: > information, G: Information, F: information, H: informacion. Ol esus plu > internaciona, ka ne? (Forsan informo es heredajo de Esperanto?) Lore on > simple povus dicar "informacionala" (qua es ne-ambigua vorto). Ma lore on > devus anke dicar "informacionar" vice "informar", ka ne? (quankam me preferas > "informar"). Kad "informaciono" ed "informacionala"...? Pensez pri l'amaso de derivuri, quan ni ja posedas, dil radiko "inform-". Exemple (nun me inventas): che l'informeyo, on informas ni (on donas informo/informado/informajo), e ni ya informesas da ulu (informeso). Ube ni questionus por informajo od informeso?: che l'informeyo. Forsan, ni anke darfas uzar la yena vorto: informesala. Ank existas la radiko "inquest-", olqua relatas sama o simila koncepto. Esus konvenanta, kara Steve, ke mea hika informo esus precizigita e plubonigita da ulu qua dominacas ica temo... Kad ulu havus l'afableso ameliorar mea informiva, ma neformal expliko? > Ne miskomprenez me, me ne intencas reformar irga kozo, ma me nur tre multe > dubitas ca aspekto lingual. > > amikale, > Steve Walesch Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1683 Return-Path: X-Sender: lamashino@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46612 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2005 11:46:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2005 11:46:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2005 11:46:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2005 11:46:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Apr 2005 11:46:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:46:40 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2005330231317.525919@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1842 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "lamashino" Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=84008767 X-Yahoo-Profile: lamashino Kar amiki, Pri la verbo *komputar, me havas ula dubiti. En Hispani= a on ne uzas tro freque la angla verbo "compute". Ni uzas altra vorti quale= "inform=E1tica", "calcular" (kalkular), "procesar" (me ne savas la exakta = tradukuro), edc. Tamen, ni dicas "computaci=F3n" (computing), do ol esas de= sfacila decido. Se on deziras tradukar la angla frazi direkte, ol es pl= u necesa, ma me kredas ke Ido ne bezonas tradukar vortope. Kordiala sal= uti, Jos=E9 Miguel - lamashino. --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, R= obert wrote: > Kara Gon=E7alo, > > Danko pro vua utila studi= o pri la posibla sufixi "or" ed "ator". Esas un punto, pri (ne)utileso di = verbo *komputar, kun qua me ne certe konsentas. Vu skribis: > > "=A0Me to= te ne vidas en qua kuntexti on povus uzar la propozata vorto * > =A0komput= ar. Me serchis e meditis ma trovis absolute nula. Ol sembas a > =A0me tote= balasta e neutila, propozata nur por justifikar neapta > =A0sufixo (*-or).= " > > Semblas a me ke to ne esas la sola motivo por propozar verbo. > > H= odie me serchis per Google, ed ol trovis la Angla vorti: > computer [aparat= o] - cirkume 238.000.000 foyi; > computing [ago, derivita de verbo] - cirku= me 49.900.000 foyi; > computation [ago, derivita de verbo] - cirkume 7.980.= 000 foyi. > > La vorti "computing" e "computation" aparas en tituli di fak= ultati e di konferi. La verbo esas evidente sat vaste uzata. > > Altralat= ere, semblas ke altra lingui generale ne havas la verbo, e lia parolanti f= orsan ne vidas irga utileso di ol. Kompreneble, se ni havus "komputoro" on= povus derivar "komputoragar", ma ka to esus plu bona? > > Parenteze, hod= ie me hazarde lektis citajo imprimita ye komenco di libro: "The purpose of= computation is insight, not numbers" (La skopo di *komputado esas kompren= o, ne nombri). > > Kordiale, > > Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1684 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74657 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2005 21:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2005 21:31:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Apr 2005 21:31:00 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.229.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.229] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DHqCm-0004w5-Ri for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 02 Apr 2005 22:30:57 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:33:37 +0100 Message-ID: <200542223337.747916@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] baleno X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Michael, Me esforcas kontrolar la senco dil Idala vorto "baleno", e t= ale anke la maxim apta tradukuro en la Angla. Same pri mili di altra vorti.= Ol esas exemplo, fortunoze tre ofta, di kazo ube me ne povas konsentar kun= Dyer, qua generale esas tre bona guidero. Segun Franca dicionario, "balei= ne" esas: I. 1. Mammif=E8re marin mystic=E8te (genres Balaena, Eubalaena et= Neabalaena) comptant parmi les plus gros animaux (14 =E0 24 m de longeur e= t jusq'=E0 150 tonnes). 2. Nom donn=E9 =E0 des c=E9tac=E9es mystic=E8tes pr= oches des baleines (m=E9gapt=E8res, bal=E9nopt=E8res). II. Fragment flexibl= e et r=E9sistant d'un fanon de baleine, employ=E9 autref. =E0 divers usages= . Baleine de corset. Par ext. Tige flexible ... ... Ol dicas anke: "fanon = ... 3. Chacune des lames corn=E9es du palais des mystic=E8tes, servant =E0 = filtrer le plancton. Les baleines ont plusieurs milliers de fanons." Do Fr= anca "baleine", e tale Idala "baleno", esas *misticeto. Baleno ne havas den= ti ed ol ne esas *odontoceto. Simile, Hispana dicionario dicas pri "ballen= a": "Mam=EDfero marino, el mayor de los animales ... ... La ballena se alim= enta de plancton, que retiene gracias a las l=E1minas c=F3rneas (de 1 a 4 m= de long.) que ocupan el lugar de los dientes en el maxilar superior." Do, = me komprenas ke "ballena" manjas planktono, ed esas bartoza vice dentoza. E= vidente ol esas *misticeto, e ne esas *odontoceto. (*Misticeto esas un gene= rala sorto di cetaceo. ed *odontoceto esas altra generala soreto di cetaceo= .) Kontraste, en la Angla, "whale" esas *misticeto od *odontocento. Do, om= na baleno esas "whale", ma ne omna "whale" esas baleno. Tamen, omna "whales= " esas cetacei (*misticeti od *odontocenti). Cetaceo esas la vorto generala= qua korespondas plu o min exakte a "whale". Kordiale, Robert. _________= _______________ Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: Kara Robert, Semblas a me= ke vu "pregas la questiono". =A0Certe on povas decidar reservar "baleno" a= d oli tala qui vu nomas "baleno" en vua mesajo, ma lo ne esas necesa. =A0Al= tru ja skribis pri la dicionario Franca, qua, se me ne eroras, ne facas tal= a distingo. =A0Anke la Angla (qua ne ordinare uzas la radiko "balen-"), ne = facas tala distingo, ma uzas "whale" larje. =A0Ke on nur rare nomas le "por= poise" e "dolphin" kom "whales" esas fakto pri la plu frequa uzado Angla, e= signifikas tre, tre poka pri la linguo Ido. =A0E certe, kande konvenanta, = on inkluzas delphini inter la "whales" en la Angla. La naturala lingui ama= s havar un vorto por nomar un klaso, la grandega mamiferi merala. =A0Natura= le, povas existar membri qui ne esas tale granda. =A0Homi povas komprenar t= ala detalo, e ne pensas ke ol kreas logikala stultajo. Certe, on povas dec= idar ke on mustas konsiderar ta mamiferi kom du klasi, ma to esas plu tekni= kala afero. =A0La vortaro generala ne facas tala distingo. Se vu volas res= ervar "baleno" a sub-klaso di la baleni, voluntez propozar un vorto pri la = tota klaso. Ma anke, voluntez komprenar ke "baleno" anke existas en Ido, e= forsan kelka altra lingui, pri ta signifiko. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wils= on Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1685 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34804 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2005 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly05.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.215) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 18980 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2005 00:14:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 13101 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2005 00:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.142]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:17 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:18:48 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c538ab$df56d4e0$8ec217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <2005330231317.525919@SonyFX805> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:36:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri la sufixo -or X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Jen kelka komenti pri vua mesajo. > Hodie me serchis per Google, ed ol trovis la Angla vorti: computer [aparato] - cirkume 238.000.000 foyi; computing [ago, derivita de verbo] - cirkume 49.900.000 foyi; computation [ago, derivita de verbo] - cirkume 7.980.000 foyi. En ordino. Tamen nura nombri signifikas nulo. Oportas citar frazi e probar tradukar li ad Ido. > La vorti "computing" e "computation" aparas en tituli di fakultati e di konferi. La verbo esas evidente sat vaste uzata. Tamen 'computing' e 'computation' es substantivi. La granda ofteso di ta substantivi auguras nulo pri la ofteso (e neceseso) dil verbo. En Ido ni ja havas la substantivo 'informatiko', qua juas granda internaciona susteno e bone supleas la mencionita substantivi Angla. > Altralatere, semblas ke altra lingui generale ne havas la verbo, e lia parolanti forsan ne vidas irga utileso di ol. Kompreneble, se ni havus "komputoro" on povus derivar "komputoragar", ma ka to esus plu bona? Ma quon signifikus ta verbo? Ol evidente esus transitiva, ma quon ol povus signifikar? Ni tote ne bezonas ta verbo. > Parenteze, hodie me hazarde lektis citajo imprimita ye komenco di libro: "The purpose of computation is insight, not numbers" (La skopo di *komputado esas kompreno, ne nombri). "La skopo di informatiko' Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1686 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59765 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2005 00:14:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly05.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.215) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 19182 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2005 00:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 13163 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2005 00:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.142]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 4 Apr 2005 00:14:26 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Mon, 04 Apr 2005 01:18:50 +0100 Message-ID: <002701c538ab$e0a68660$8ec217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <000a01c533a9$5768c220$69e23a52@nardinic> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 00:44:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Forsan -abas ne es absurda X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves L'argumenti adjuntita da Carlo Nardini es absolute nerefutebla. Pos lektir e ponderir lua mesajo me ne povas ne agnoskar ke mea premisi esis eroroza, e ke konseque anke mea konkluzo es tal. Mea premisi esis eroroza pro ke me neglijis l'aspekto verbal. Kande on dicas 'me lektabas libro', la vera signifiko es 'me esas lektinta libro'. Do en la verbala formo 'lektabas' akumulesas stato prezenta ('esas') rezultinta de ago pasinta ('lektinta'). Konseque, en ta verboformo la sufixo 'ab' ya indikas anteeso, dum ke la dezinenco 'as' ya indikas prezento. Pro to la verboformo 'lektabas', kontraste kun mea antea dico, tote ne pekas kontre la principo di unasenceso'. Do me devas genupozar e dankar Carlo Nardini pro la erudo. Tamen genupozar ne ja es prosternar. E se me agnoskas l'eroro, me tamen ne kapitulacas en mea kombato kontre la senreflekta uzado dil verboformo 'abas'. Ca formo es uzebla nur kande on vere volas acentizar l'aspekto verbal. Altradice, 'me lektabas libro' es uzebla nur kande on volas dicar 'me esas lektinta libro', o samsence, 'me esas lektinto di libro'. Exemplo: "Hodie me lektabas multa libri pri kemio ma komprenas nulo pri ca fako" (Tamen me preferas rekursar ad altra moyeni por dicar lo sama sen uzar la formo 'abas'. Exemple "Til hodie me lektis multa libri pri kemio ma komprenas nulo pri ca fako") Regretinde me remarkas ke maxim-multa-kaze on uzas la verboformo 'abas' kande tote ne koncernesas acentizo dil aspekto verbal. On agas lo, me suspektas, pro nura influo da lingui nacional, precipue dal Angla. Kande docolibro dicas sen plusa expliko ke "I have read = Me lektabas" ed "I read = Me lektis", ol advere facas mala servo ad Ido, nam tal sika equivaligo misduktas novici ed es fonto di subtila erori stilal. Me joyas ke me (ri)lansis la debato (malgre mea eroro): ultre la bona reakti recevita me sucesis instigar l'interveno da Carlo Nardini, e konseque ni omna povis itere juar ne nur lua ecelanta Ido-stilo ma anke lua profunda e detaloza argumenti. Me esperas ke anke en futura okazioni me sucesos instigar lua interveno! Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1687 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59631 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2005 01:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2005 01:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2005 01:45:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 26820 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2005 01:45:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20050405014556.26818.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.122.63] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 03:45:56 CEST Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 03:45:56 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Ankorfoye pri -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Hola, Goncalo! Pos lektir l'unesma ek tua du frazi, me miskomprenis ol. To signifikas, ke se tua iba uzo di -abas es justa, me certe es ta qua uzas ta formo verbal ne-juste. > "Hodie me lektabas multa libri pri kemio..." Quoniam tu skribis "hodie", me komprenis ke, ca-die, dum la nuna dio, tu lektabas (o lektis) multa libri pri kemio... (on darfas interpretar, ke tu hodie konsultabas oli) Erste pos parlektir la duesma frazo e tua komento, me sucesis intelektar quon tu intencabis che l'unesma. Nu, segun me, ta "hodie" miskomprenigas la frazo "Prezente, me lektabas multa libri pri kemio..." > "Til nun me lektis multa libri pri kemio..." Cakaze, anke me konstruktabus la frazo tale o simile, ma, kurioze, me forsan introduktabus la formo -abas: "Til nun (til hodie), me lektabas multa libri pri kemio..." O multe plu simpla: "Me lektis (o lektabas) multa libri pri kemio..." Hiere, me lektis. Hodie (nur ca-die) me lektabas o lektis. Irgakaze, mea precipua problemo ca-relate, es ta "hodie" che tua unesma frazo, olqua duktis me a miskompreno, nam "hodie" relatas nur "la nuna dio", ed ol direte relatas la formo verbal -abas. Ka me advere esas misuzanta tal formo? Me questionas, pro ke me deziras saveskar. Me salutas ed *adeas amikale! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1688 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7004 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2005 21:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2005 21:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2005 21:45:09 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 960A831D3B for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:45:04 -0300 (BRST) Message-ID: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> To: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:18:26 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Herder" Subject: Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara sam-listani, Me ne trovas che mea dicionari kelka vorti e me , ne-pr= etendeme, riskas sugestar posibla solvuri pri la traduko di ta vorti aden I= do. Yes ,me koncias ke to ne esas afero simpla ma, fine, ka nura sugesto ne= povas eventuale anke esar utila? Yen ta vorti: *palafito A=3Dpalafitte, F= =3D palafitte,G=3DPfahlbau, H=3D palafita,I=3Dpalafitta Def.: Habiteyo kons= truktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye fundo di lago,rive= ro, ec. L=B4ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. *slumo A=3Dsh= anty-town ( the slums), F=3D bidonville, G=3D Elenviertel, H=3D chabolas De= f.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi populala konstruktita g= enerale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per publika avantaji *= etiqueto A=3Detiquette, F=3D=E9tiquette, G=3D Etikette, H=3Detiqueta, I=3De= tichetta Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto. *detekt/= ar A=3D to detect, F=3D d=E9tecter,G=3D entdecken, H=3D detectar, I=3D scop= rire. Def.: diskovrar la existo di (ulu,ulo), l=B4identeso ( di ulu) kulpan= ta pri malfacado. Ido havas detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch:= policisto komisita por explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, dis= close, detect ( what was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar es= us forsan teknikale plu adequata kam =B4deskovrar=B4 *autostop A=3D hitch-= hike,F=3Dauto-stop,G=3D per Anhalter fahren,H=3Dautostop,I=3Dautostop. Def.= : Voyajar per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. *klimatizoro A=3D air con= ditioner, F=3D climatiseur,G=3D Klimaanlage, H=3D climatizador, I=3D condiz= ionatore. Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en amb= iento. *kartuno A=3D Cartoon, F=3D dessin anim=E9, G=3DTrickfilm, H=3D dib= ujo animado, I cartone animato Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per fot= ografado di serio di desegnuri. Amikale, Herder [Non-text portions of = this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1689 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90101 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 02:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 02:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nash.numericable.net) (80.236.3.115) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 02:15:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 19207 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 02:15:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by nash.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Apr 2005 02:15:39 -0000 Message-ID: <009701c53a4f$527bce40$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 04:21:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Herder Danko pri vua propozo de nova vorti e yen mea komenti : vice *klimatizoro me preferus *klimatizatoro ( generatoro de klimatizata aero) vice *slumo me propozas domacharo pro ke Dyer donas domacho por "shanty" vice *etiqueto De Beaufront e Couturat ja donis etiketo en lia franca-ido diciionario *autohalto vice *autostop Kordiala saluti Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Herder" � : Envoy� : mardi 5 avril 2005 15:18 Objet : [linguo] Kelka vorti Kara sam-listani, Me ne trovas che mea dicionari kelka vorti e me , ne-pretendeme, riskas sugestar posibla solvuri pri la traduko di ta vorti aden Ido. Yes ,me koncias ke to ne esas afero simpla ma, fine, ka nura sugesto ne povas eventuale anke esar utila? Yen ta vorti: *palafito A=palafitte, F= palafitte,G=Pfahlbau, H= palafita,I=palafitta Def.: Habiteyo konstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye fundo di lago,rivero, ec. L�ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. *slumo A=shanty-town ( the slums), F= bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H= chabolas Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi populala konstruktita generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per publika avantaji *etiqueto A=etiquette, F=�tiquette, G= Etikette, H=etiqueta, I=etichetta Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto. *detekt/ar A= to detect, F= d�tecter,G= entdecken, H= detectar, I= scoprire. Def.: diskovrar la existo di (ulu,ulo), l�identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri malfacado. Ido havas detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita por explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale plu adequata kam �deskovrar� *autostop A= hitch-hike,F=auto-stop,G= per Anhalter fahren,H=autostop,I=autostop. Def.: Voyajar per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. *klimatizoro A= air conditioner, F= climatiseur,G= Klimaanlage, H= climatizador, I= condizionatore. Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en ambiento. *kartuno A= Cartoon, F= dessin anim�, G=Trickfilm, H= dibujo animado, I cartone animato Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per fotografado di serio di desegnuri. Amikale, Herder From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1690 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29061 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 02:27:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 02:27:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 02:27:16 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 979C23388A for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:27:12 -0300 (BRST) Message-ID: <000901c53a09$5bcb6460$1b12070a@user> To: Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:00:29 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Herder" Subject: Edukar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Segun Dyer "la generala ideo kovrata da =B4edukar" esas multe plu larja ka= m la intelektala edukado ( di homi, infanti), qua koincidas preske kun l = =B4instruktado"(Dic., p.83) .Konseque, edukar (infanti, homi), esas, ultr= e to, anke developar e kultivar korpala, intelektala ed etikala fakultati= ; formacar la manieri di;TO REAR, RAISE, BREED ( CATTLE AND OTHER ANIMALS)= ; TO TRAIN, REAR (PLANTS).De to: abel-edukado (bee culture), abel-edukisto(= bee master), bestio edukado ( rearing of animals) e.c... >Pesch same defi= nas, ta-sence, " edukar "...IV) "nutrar , plumultigar, entratenar ula anim= ali por lia manjeso, lia laboro e la plezuro quan onu recevas de li; same p= ri planti". Esis tala en la Latina ( "educ/o, are) ma =B4edukar=B4perdis= ta ampleso. Pri "edukar" (animali) on nune trovas; A=3D breed, rear, F=3D = =E9lever, G=3D z=FCchten, H=3D criar, I=3D allevar .Pri =B4edukar=B4 (infan= to, homo): A=3D educate, F=3D =E9duquer, G=3D erziehen, bilden,H=3D educar,= I=3D educare. Atencez: Ide, "krear", segun Pesch: I -(religio) aludante D= eo). Facar ulo ek nulo, prenante lu de nihilo.II - (aludante homo).Kompozar= (verko , kozo qua ne existas antee). Kriar: lansar voco-sonuni stridanta e= neartikulita Quankam , certasence, on povas "edukar" planto, o animalo = ( pri animalo, plu precize, "dresar" olu :"omna domestika animalo esas ed= ukata da sua mastro, ma ne omni esas dresita "(id.ib.p.80, =B4dresar =B4), = fakte pri "nutrar, plumultigar, entratenar animali" generale, mankas vorto= propra. Ka "bredar" ? "alevar"?... Amikale, Herder . [Non-text por= tions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1691 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89994 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 12:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 12:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 12:44:09 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C8733224D for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:44:07 -0300 (BRST) Message-ID: <001901c53aa5$a08f7c20$1b12070a@user> To: References: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> <009701c53a4f$527bce40$bf60dc51@landloic> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:39:07 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Loik, Me dankas vua komenti. Relate * =B4etiqueto=B4 Loic skribis: = < vice * etiqueto De Beaufront e Couturat ja donis etiketo en lia franca -= ido dicionario> Yes, ma, segun semblo =B4 etiketo=B4 ibe referas "indiko= texto fixigita sur objeto"(Pesch); "label" ( on bottles,etc),"ticket" (on= goods, parcels). (Dyer). De Beafront&Couturat adjuntas: (" c=E9r=E9monia= l"), ceremoni/alo, -aro , por ensemblo di reguli ke on observas lor ceremo= nio. La vorto propozata :=B4etiqueto=B4 referas plu precize ensemblo di = reguli pri sociala konduto ye okazioni formala. Konseque: etiketo ed etiqu= eto. Kordiala saluti, Herder ----- Original Message ----- From: Loic= Landais To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 200= 5 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti Kara Herder Danko pri= vua propozo de nova vorti e yen mea komenti : vice *klimatizoro me pref= erus *klimatizatoro ( generatoro de klimatizata aero) vice *slumo me p= ropozas domacharo pro ke Dyer donas domacho por "shanty" vice *etiqueto = De Beaufront e Couturat ja donis etiketo en lia franca-ido diciionario = *autohalto vice *autostop Kordiala saluti Loik ----- Message d'ori= gine ----- De : "Herder" =C0 : Envoy=E9 : mardi 5 avril 2005 15:18 Objet : [linguo] Kelka v= orti Kara sam-listani, Me ne trovas che mea dicionari kelka vorti = e me , ne-pretendeme, riskas sugestar posibla solvuri pri la traduko di t= a vorti aden Ido. Yes ,me koncias ke to ne esas afero simpla ma, fine, ka= nura sugesto ne povas eventuale anke esar utila? Yen ta vorti: *palaf= ito A=3Dpalafitte, F=3D palafitte,G=3DPfahlbau, H=3D palafita,I=3Dpalafit= ta Def.: Habiteyo konstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigi= ta ye fundo di lago,rivero, ec. L=B4ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habite= yo taspeca. *slumo A=3Dshanty-town ( the slums), F=3D bidonville, G=3D= Elenviertel, H=3D chabolas Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di d= ometachi populala konstruktita generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne= provizita per publika avantaji *etiqueto A=3Detiquette, F=3D=E9tiquet= te, G=3D Etikette, H=3Detiqueta, I=3Detichetta Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pr= i formala relati or konduto. *detekt/ar A=3D to detect, F=3D d=E9tec= ter,G=3D entdecken, H=3D detectar, I=3D scoprire. Def.: diskovrar la exis= to di (ulu,ulo), l=B4identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri malfacado. Ido hav= as detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita por= explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what = was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale pl= u adequata kam =B4deskovrar=B4 *autostop A=3D hitch-hike,F=3Dauto-st= op,G=3D per Anhalter fahren,H=3Dautostop,I=3Dautostop. Def.: Voyajar per = demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. *klimatizoro A=3D air conditioner, = F=3D climatiseur,G=3D Klimaanlage, H=3D climatizador, I=3D condizionatore= . Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en ambiento.= *kartuno A=3D Cartoon, F=3D dessin anim=E9, G=3DTrickfilm, H=3D dibuj= o animado, I cartone animato Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per f= otografado di serio di desegnuri. Amikale, Herder ------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo!= Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://gr= oups.yahoo.com/group/linguolisto/ b.. To unsubscribe from this g= roup, send an email to: linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com = c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service= . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1692 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88733 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 15:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 15:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp8.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.23) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 15:02:33 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0812.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0991E1C00205 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:02:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf0801 (wwinf0801 [172.22.139.28]) by mwinf0812.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0561B1C001F5 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:02:33 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050406150233221.0561B1C001F5@mwinf0812.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <13989356.1112799753006.JavaMail.www@wwinf0801> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:02:33 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Herder, Yes pri etiketo De Beaufront&Couturat ne donas la figurizanta = senco qua anke existas en franca kun la vorto "=C3=A9tiquette" kande ol uze= sas por klasifikar ulu en politikala partiso o filosofiala. Semblas a me ke= etiketo povus anke havar ca figurizanta senco. Camaniere on povus dicar : = "il etiketizesas Verda" pri kelku qua adheras al Verda partiso exemple. Kor= diala saluti Loik > Message du 06/04/05 14:44 > De : "Herder" > A : li= nguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet : Re: [linguo] Kelka vo= rti > > > Kara Loik, > > Me dankas vua komenti. > > Relate * =C2=B4etiq= ueto=C2=B4 Loic skribis: > > < vice * etiqueto De Beaufront e Couturat ja = donis etiketo en lia franca - ido dicionario> > > Yes, ma, segun semblo = =C2=B4 etiketo=C2=B4 ibe referas "indiko texto fixigita sur objeto"(Pesch);= "label" ( on bottles,etc),"ticket" (on goods, parcels). (Dyer). > > De Be= afront&Couturat adjuntas: (" c=C3=A9r=C3=A9monial"), ceremoni/alo, -aro , p= or ensemblo di reguli ke on observas lor ceremonio. > > La vorto propozata= :=C2=B4etiqueto=C2=B4 referas plu precize ensemblo di reguli pri sociala k= onduto ye okazioni formala. > > Konseque: > etiketo ed etiqueto. > > Kord= iala saluti, > > Herder > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Loic Landa= is > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:2= 1 PM > Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti > > > Kara Herder > > Danko pri= vua propozo de nova vorti e yen mea komenti : > > vice *klimatizoro me pr= eferus *klimatizatoro ( generatoro de klimatizata > aero) > > vice *slumo = me propozas domacharo pro ke Dyer donas domacho por "shanty" > > vice *eti= queto De Beaufront e Couturat ja donis etiketo en lia franca-ido > diciiona= rio > > *autohalto vice *autostop > > Kordiala saluti > Loik > > ----- M= essage d'origine ----- > De : "Herder" > =C3=80 : > Envoy=C3=A9 : mardi = 5 avril 2005 15:18 > Objet : [linguo] Kelka vorti > > > > Kara sam-lista= ni, > > Me ne trovas che mea dicionari kelka vorti e me , ne-pretendeme, r= iskas > sugestar posibla solvuri pri la traduko di ta vorti aden Ido. Yes ,= me > koncias ke to ne esas afero simpla ma, fine, ka nura sugesto ne povas = > eventuale anke esar utila? Yen ta vorti: > > *palafito > A=3Dpalafitte, = F=3D palafitte,G=3DPfahlbau, H=3D palafita,I=3Dpalafitta > Def.: Habiteyo k= onstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye > fundo di lago= ,rivero, ec. L=C2=B4ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. > > *= slumo > A=3Dshanty-town ( the slums), F=3D bidonville, G=3D Elenviertel, H= =3D chabolas > Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi popula= la konstruktita > generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per = publika avantaji > > *etiqueto > A=3Detiquette, F=3D=C3=A9tiquette, G=3D E= tikette, H=3Detiqueta, I=3Detichetta > Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala = relati or konduto. > > *detekt/ar > A=3D to detect, F=3D d=C3=A9tecter,G= =3D entdecken, H=3D detectar, I=3D scoprire. > Def.: diskovrar la existo di= (ulu,ulo), l=C2=B4identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri > malfacado. > Ido havas= detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita > por e= xplorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what > was= not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale plu >= adequata kam =C2=B4deskovrar=C2=B4 > > *autostop > A=3D hitch-hike,F=3Dau= to-stop,G=3D per Anhalter fahren,H=3Dautostop,I=3Dautostop. > Def.: Voyajar= per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. > > *klimatizoro > A=3D air condit= ioner, F=3D climatiseur,G=3D Klimaanlage, H=3D climatizador, I=3D > condizi= onatore. > Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en am= biento. > > *kartuno > A=3D Cartoon, F=3D dessin anim=C3=A9, G=3DTrickfilm= , H=3D dibujo animado, I cartone > animato > Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) = facita per fotografado di serio di desegnuri. > > Amikale, > > Herder [N= on-text portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1693 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33230 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 20:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 20:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 20:16:01 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 58B5C32C08 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:15:56 -0300 (BRST) Message-ID: <001601c53ae4$ba935760$1b12070a@user> To: References: <13989356.1112799753006.JavaMail.www@wwinf0801> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:10:48 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Loik, Me itere dankas pro vua komento. Amikala saluti, Herder From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1694 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83189 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:48:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 23:48:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly01.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.211) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:48:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 18651 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly01.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:48:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 28625 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:48:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.135]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:48:47 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:53:18 +0100 Message-ID: <00ec01c53b03$ce7f0a20$87c217c3@oemcomputer> To: References: <20050405014556.26818.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:40:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ankorfoye pri -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Partaka, > > "Hodie me lektabas multa libri pri kemio..." > Pos lektir l'unesma ek tua du frazi, me miskomprenis > ol. To signifikas, ke se tua iba uzo di -abas es > justa, > me certe es ta qua uzas ta formo verbal ne-juste. Se Andreas hiere (od en antea dii) lektis multa libri pri kemio, hodie Andreas esas lektinta ta libri, od altradice ma tote samsence, hodie Andreas esas lektinto di ta libri. Se la verbala formo '-abas' es samsenca kam 'esas -inta' (e nur ta equivalo igas ol gramatikale admisebla), la frazo "Hodie Andreas esas lektinta multa libri pri kemio" es samsenca kam "Hodie Andreas lektabas multa libri por kemio". Kun kordiala saluti, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1695 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54439 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 23:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly07.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.217) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:49:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17868 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:49:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt02.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.194]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly07.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:49:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 19917 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:49:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.135]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt02.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:49:06 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:53:22 +0100 Message-ID: <00f001c53b03$d0fb54c0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:53:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Herder, Yen mea komenti: *palafito A=palafitte, F= palafitte,G=Pfahlbau, H= palafita,I=palafitta Def.: Habiteyo konstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye fundo di lago,rivero, ec. L�ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. Ne objecionebla. *slumo A=shanty-town ( the slums), F= bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H= chabolas Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi populala konstruktita generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per publika avantaji Ca vorto ja adoptesis en Esperanto ma es rare uzata. Kontraste, la vorto 'favelo', ne ja adoptita en ta linguo, es plu ofte uzata. Pro quo? Forsan pro ke l'originala vorto Braziliana ('favela') es plu konocata. Forsan pro ke 'slumo' apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e do es desfacile rikonocebla mem da orelo Angla. En Portugal on uzas la Braziliana vorto nur kande on volas specale mencionar tal quarteri Braziliana. Kande on volas mencionar tal quarteri Portugalana on uzas l'expresuro "bairro de lata" (lada quartero'), qua es proxim la Franca nomizo "bidonville" ('bidona urbo'). Ka ni ne povus adoptar simila solvo en Ido? 'slumo' semblas a me neapta vorto. *etiqueto A=etiquette, F=�tiquette, G= Etikette, H=etiqueta, I=etichetta Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto. Ja adoptita (v. Lexiko di nova vorti, 2001). *detekt/ar A= to detect, F= d�tecter,G= entdecken, H= detectar, I= scoprire. Def.: diskovrar la existo di (ulu,ulo), l�identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri malfacado. Ido havas detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita por explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale plu adequata kam �deskovrar� Yes, *detektar es vorto necesa en Ido. *autostop A= hitch-hike,F=auto-stop,G= per Anhalter fahren,H=autostop,I=autostop. Def.: Voyajar per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. Nula objeciono. *klimatizoro A= air conditioner, F= climatiseur,G= Klimaanlage, H= climatizador, I= condizionatore. Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en ambiento. Se ni admisus la sufixo -ator, ni povus reguloze formacar la vorto 'klimat/iz/atoro'. *kartuno A= Cartoon, F= dessin anim�, G=Trickfilm, H= dibujo animado, I cartone animato Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per fotografado di serio di desegnuri. Nula objeciono. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1696 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94803 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly08.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.218) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 29368 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly08.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 30375 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.135]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:18 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:56:55 +0100 Message-ID: <011101c53b04$4f94ffc0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> To: References: <20050405014556.26818.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:55:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ankorfoye pri -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Partaka, > > "Hodie me lektabas multa libri pri kemio..." > Pos lektir l'unesma ek tua du frazi, me miskomprenis > ol. To signifikas, ke se tua iba uzo di -abas es > justa, > me certe es ta qua uzas ta formo verbal ne-juste. Se Andreas hiere (od en antea dii) lektis multa libri pri kemio, hodie Andreas esas lektinta ta libri, od altradice ma tote samsence, hodie Andreas esas lektinto di ta libri. Se la verbala formo '-abas' es samsenca kam 'esas -inta' (e nur ta equivalo igas ol gramatikale admisebla), la frazo "Hodie Andreas esas lektinta multa libri pri kemio" es samsenca kam "Hodie Andreas lektabas multa libri por kemio". Kun kordiala saluti, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1697 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29151 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly04.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.214) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 27797 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.197]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly04.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 5454 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2005 23:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.135]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Apr 2005 23:52:20 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.8.1]); Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:56:56 +0100 Message-ID: <011201c53b04$5033b0c0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> To: References: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:56:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Herder, Yen mea komenti: *palafito A=palafitte, F= palafitte,G=Pfahlbau, H= palafita,I=palafitta Def.: Habiteyo konstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye fundo di lago,rivero, ec. L�ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. Ne objecionebla. *slumo A=shanty-town ( the slums), F= bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H= chabolas Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi populala konstruktita generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per publika avantaji Ca vorto ja adoptesis en Esperanto ma es rare uzata. Kontraste, la vorto 'favelo', ne ja adoptita en ta linguo, es plu ofte uzata. Pro quo? Forsan pro ke l'originala vorto Braziliana ('favela') es plu konocata. Forsan pro ke 'slumo' apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e do es desfacile rikonocebla mem da orelo Angla. En Portugal on uzas la Braziliana vorto nur kande on volas specale mencionar tal quarteri Braziliana. Kande on volas mencionar tal quarteri Portugalana on uzas l'expresuro "bairro de lata" (lada quartero'), qua es proxim la Franca nomizo "bidonville" ('bidona urbo'). Ka ni ne povus adoptar simila solvo en Ido? 'slumo' semblas a me neapta vorto. *etiqueto A=etiquette, F=�tiquette, G= Etikette, H=etiqueta, I=etichetta Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto. Ja adoptita (v. Lexiko di nova vorti, 2001). *detekt/ar A= to detect, F= d�tecter,G= entdecken, H= detectar, I= scoprire. Def.: diskovrar la existo di (ulu,ulo), l�identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri malfacado. Ido havas detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita por explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale plu adequata kam �deskovrar� Yes, *detektar es vorto necesa en Ido. *autostop A= hitch-hike,F=auto-stop,G= per Anhalter fahren,H=autostop,I=autostop. Def.: Voyajar per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. Nula objeciono. *klimatizoro A= air conditioner, F= climatiseur,G= Klimaanlage, H= climatizador, I= condizionatore. Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en ambiento. Se ni admisus la sufixo -ator, ni povus reguloze formacar la vorto 'klimat/iz/atoro'. *kartuno A= Cartoon, F= dessin anim�, G=Trickfilm, H= dibujo animado, I cartone animato Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per fotografado di serio di desegnuri. Nula objeciono. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1698 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16323 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 01:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2005 01:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 01:35:58 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id B18E033637 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:34:36 -0300 (BRST) Message-ID: <001101c53b11$3b960f20$1b12070a@user> To: References: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> <011201c53b04$5033b0c0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:29:22 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Gon=E7alo, Me dankas vua komenti. Pri *slumo : A=3D shanty town ( th= e slums), F. bidonville, G=3D Elenviertel, H. chabolas vu skribis: ( ...)= < *slumo apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e do es = desfacile rikonocebla, mem da orelo Angla> Argumento ponderebla; vu esas t= re probable korekta. Vu anke skribis: (...) < En Portugal on uzas la Bra= ziliana vorto ( " favela") nur kande on volas specale mencionar tal quarter= i Braziliana.Kande on volas mencionar tal quarteri Portugalana on uzas l = =B4expresuro "bairro de lata" ( lada quartero), qua es proxim la Franca nom= izo "bidonville ("bidona urbo"). Ka ni ne povus adoptar simila solvo en Ido= ?" > Me konkordas: on devus rezervar "favelo" por specale mencionar tala = quarteri Braziliana. Relate taspeca quarteri, generale, "lada, bidona, o = simple, povra quartero, esus forsan plu adequata kam *slumo. Saluti amik= ala, Herder From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1699 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93959 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2005 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.20) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:54:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:54:25 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, francidol@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 17:54:25 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2005 17:54:25.0293 (UTC) FILETIME=[D61993D0:01C53B9A] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Jacques Segun Dyer, baln/ar es transitiva verbo en Ido. Do me opinionas ke on mustas uzar "balnar su" exemple: me balnas me, vu balnas vu, il balnas su. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "jacquesdehe" >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:33:51 -0000 > > > >Kara James, > >Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? > >[ido: BALNAR] [de 92: baden] [en 65: bath] [fr 63: baigner] [it >60: bagnare] [es 40: baniar] [pl 39: kapac] [nl 21: baden] [pt >11: banhar] [cs 10,5: koupat] [ca 9: banyar] [sv 9: bada] [da 5: >bade] [sk 5: kupat] [eu 1,1: bainatu] [eo: bani] [ia: baniar] >[lfn: baniar] (en construction) >* >[ido: BALANAR SU] [de 92: baden; sich baden] [en 65: have a bath; >have a swim] [fr 63: se baigner] [it 60: fare il bagno] [es 40: >baniarse] [pl 39: kapac sie] [nl 21: een bad nemen; zwemmen] [pt >11: banhar-se] [cs 10,5: koupat se] [ca 9: banyar-se] [sv 9: >bada] [da 5: tage et bad; gaa i bad] [sk 5: kupat sa] [eu 1,1: >bainatu] [eo: banigxi] [ia: baniar se] [lfn: baniar] (en >construction) >* > >Danko, kordiale, >Jacques > > > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1700 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82211 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 18:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2005 18:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 18:07:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:06:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:06:51 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <001101c53b11$3b960f20$1b12070a@user> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 18:06:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2005 18:06:51.0931 (UTC) FILETIME=[93217EB0:01C53B9C] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Herder ed amiki Quale dicis Otto Jespersen, ni devas ne konstante adjuntar nova vorti nenecese ad Ido. To nur komplikigas la lernado di nia linguo. Bona exemplo es slumo* o favelo*. Ni ne bezonas ica vorti en Ido nam per nia sufixo -ach nia povas facile formacar quarter/acho, quo tote suficas. Generale me ne es konservema pri developo di Ido, ma tala nenecesa vorti nur expansas ne-utile (o mem nocive) la vortolibri. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "Herder" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:29:22 -0300 > > >Kara Gon�alo, > >Me dankas vua komenti. > >Pri *slumo : A= shanty town ( the slums), F. bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H. >chabolas > >vu skribis: > >( ...) < *slumo apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e >do es desfacile rikonocebla, mem da orelo Angla> > >Argumento ponderebla; vu esas tre probable korekta. > >Vu anke skribis: > > >(...) < En Portugal on uzas la Braziliana vorto ( " favela") nur kande on >volas specale mencionar tal quarteri Braziliana.Kande on volas mencionar >tal quarteri Portugalana on uzas l �expresuro "bairro de lata" ( lada >quartero), qua es proxim la Franca nomizo "bidonville ("bidona urbo"). Ka >ni ne povus adoptar simila solvo en Ido?" > > >Me konkordas: on devus rezervar "favelo" por specale mencionar tala >quarteri Braziliana. Relate taspeca quarteri, generale, "lada, bidona, o >simple, povra quartero, esus forsan plu adequata kam *slumo. > >Saluti amikala, > >Herder > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1701 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6436 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 21:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2005 21:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep17-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.16) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 21:49:49 -0000 Received: from azalia ([62.194.97.31]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with SMTP id <20050407214948.BZHQ4858.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:49:48 +0200 Message-ID: <013901c53bbb$554c3cf0$1f61c23e@azalia> To: References: <1112757154.174.96947.m12@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:46:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara Herder, Me kredas ke "etiqueto" ja existas kun definuro same kam vu. "Etiketo" quale skribis Loik Landais, koncernas nur papereto, marko o simile sur botelo, bidono, buxo, edc., qua mencionas la konteno dil objekto. Me ipsa uzis ulafoye en texto "autostopo", do me konkordas kun vu pri ta vorto. Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Kara sam-listani, Me ne trovas che mea dicionari kelka vorti e me , ne-pretendeme, riskas sugestar posibla solvuri pri la traduko di ta vorti aden Ido. Yes ,me koncias ke to ne esas afero simpla ma, fine, ka nura sugesto ne povas eventuale anke esar utila? Yen ta vorti: *palafito A=palafitte, F= palafitte,G=Pfahlbau, H= palafita,I=palafitta Def.: Habiteyo konstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye fundo di lago,rivero, ec. L�ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. *slumo A=shanty-town ( the slums), F= bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H= chabolas Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi populala konstruktita generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per publika avantaji *etiqueto A=etiquette, F=�tiquette, G= Etikette, H=etiqueta, I=etichetta Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto. *detekt/ar A= to detect, F= d�tecter,G= entdecken, H= detectar, I= scoprire. Def.: diskovrar la existo di (ulu,ulo), l�identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri malfacado. Ido havas detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita por explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale plu adequata kam �deskovrar� *autostop A= hitch-hike,F=auto-stop,G= per Anhalter fahren,H=autostop,I=autostop. Def.: Voyajar per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. *klimatizoro A= air conditioner, F= climatiseur,G= Klimaanlage, H= climatizador, I= condizionatore. Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en ambiento. *kartuno A= Cartoon, F= dessin anim�, G=Trickfilm, H= dibujo animado, I cartone animato Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per fotografado di serio di desegnuri. Amikale, Herder From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1702 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79593 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 22:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2005 22:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nash.numericable.net) (80.236.3.115) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2005 22:46:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 23257 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2005 22:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.96.191]) (envelope-sender ) by nash.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2005 22:46:29 -0000 Message-ID: <006901c53bc4$6f6d73c0$bf60dc51@landloic> To: References: <000901c539e1$f4c679c0$1b12070a@user> <011201c53b04$5033b0c0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:52:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara Goncalo, Relate *etiqueto propozita da Herder vu skribis : > Ja adoptita (v. Lexiko di nova vorti, 2001). Ma *etiqueto propozita da Robert Carnaghan en la Lexiko di nova vorti ne havas kom definuro olta di Herder (Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto) ma la sequanta : etiquet.o A: etiquette F: �tiquette (protocole) G: Etikette H: etiqueta (modales) I: etichetta (cerimoniale) Pluse De Beaufront&Couturat donis : �tiquette : etiketo ; (c�r�monial) ceremoni-alo, -aro Do fine : 1) semblas a me ke *etiqueto ne esas bezonata pro ke ja existas ceremoni-alo, -aro. 2) semblas a me ke etiketo povus uzesar anke pri figurizanta senco por klasifikar ulu en politikala partiso o filosofiala skolo ma expresita diferante da Herder kom "Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto". Kordiale Loik ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Goncalo Neves" � : Envoy� : jeudi 7 avril 2005 01:56 Objet : Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti > > Kara Herder, > > Yen mea komenti: > > *palafito > A=palafitte, F= palafitte,G=Pfahlbau, H= palafita,I=palafitta > Def.: Habiteyo konstruktita super aquo, apogata sur ligna fosti fixigita ye > fundo di lago,rivero, ec. L�ensemblo di fosti qui sustenas habiteyo taspeca. > > Ne objecionebla. > > *slumo > A=shanty-town ( the slums), F= bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H= chabolas > Def.: Povra quartero di urbo od ensemblo di dometachi populala konstruktita > generale en urbala kolini o terenachi e ne provizita per publika avantaji > > Ca vorto ja adoptesis en Esperanto ma es rare uzata. Kontraste, la vorto > 'favelo', ne ja adoptita en ta linguo, es plu ofte uzata. Pro quo? Forsan > pro ke l'originala vorto Braziliana ('favela') es plu konocata. Forsan pro > ke 'slumo' apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e do es > desfacile rikonocebla mem da orelo Angla. > > En Portugal on uzas la Braziliana vorto nur kande on volas specale mencionar > tal quarteri Braziliana. Kande on volas mencionar tal quarteri Portugalana > on uzas l'expresuro "bairro de lata" (lada quartero'), qua es proxim la > Franca nomizo "bidonville" ('bidona urbo'). Ka ni ne povus adoptar simila > solvo en Ido? 'slumo' semblas a me neapta vorto. > > *etiqueto > A=etiquette, F=�tiquette, G= Etikette, H=etiqueta, I=etichetta > Def.:Ensemblo di reguli pri formala relati or konduto. > > Ja adoptita (v. Lexiko di nova vorti, 2001). > > *detekt/ar > A= to detect, F= d�tecter,G= entdecken, H= detectar, I= scoprire. > Def.: diskovrar la existo di (ulu,ulo), l�identeso ( di ulu) kulpanta pri > malfacado. > Ido havas detektoro (elektrika aparat); detektivo( Pesch: policisto komisita > por explorar).Segun Dyer : deskovrar: to discover, disclose, detect ( what > was not known before).Ma en ula kuntexti, detektar esus forsan teknikale plu > adequata kam �deskovrar� > > Yes, *detektar es vorto necesa en Ido. > > *autostop > A= hitch-hike,F=auto-stop,G= per Anhalter fahren,H=autostop,I=autostop. > Def.: Voyajar per demandar veturanti vehar gratuite. > > Nula objeciono. > > *klimatizoro > A= air conditioner, F= climatiseur,G= Klimaanlage, H= climatizador, I= > condizionatore. > Def.: Aparato qua regulozigas la temperaturo e la humideso en ambiento. > > Se ni admisus la sufixo -ator, ni povus reguloze formacar la vorto > 'klimat/iz/atoro'. > > *kartuno > A= Cartoon, F= dessin anim�, G=Trickfilm, H= dibujo animado, I cartone > animato > Def.: Cinmatografuro ( filmo) facita per fotografado di serio di desegnuri. > > Nula objeciono. > > Kordiale, > > Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1703 Return-Path: X-Sender: rsa@matrix.com.br X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1559 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2005 03:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2005 03:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.matrix.com.br) (200.196.28.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2005 03:07:56 -0000 Received: from user (pad-51.fns.matrix.com.br [200.196.29.51]) by smtp1.matrix.com.br (Postfix) with SMTP id 190CD33291 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:07:48 -0300 (BRST) Message-ID: <000701c53be7$3e401b40$1b12070a@user> To: References: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:01:17 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Herder" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=83859101 X-Yahoo-Profile: herderbr Me dankas amiki Hans e Chandler pro lia komenti. Yes, forsan "slumo" esas ne-necesa nam, quale bone skribis Gon�alo Neves ,ol "apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e do es desfacile rikonocebla mem da orelo Angla". To esas vera. Ma pri �quarteracho�o, forsan ,�domachararo�o ankore � domachetaro �, me trovas li tro ampla, tro generala. Oportus, meaopinione, vorto plu specig ( anta,�- iva). Kad ico nocos Ido? Me apene havas tempo por ta afero ( vortifado) ma, pro kuriozeso, dum lektado o tradukado, me kustumale notas vorti quin me ne trovas che mea vortari. To esas l �origino di mea listeto " kelka vorti". Fakte, me nur sendis ta listeto ad Idolisto, por vidar ka ulu propozus alternativi, sugesti, komenti e.c., pri ula vorti qui interesis me e qui(n) me judikis utila. Me ne esas agema vorto-chasero o vortifisto, autoritatoza linguistikisto o linguifisto, ma simpla, kurioza, Ido praktikanto. Ri-lektante nun ula listi ,me vidas ke, segun semblo, esas plura nova vorti dispensinda, exemple: aeronautiko ( aernavigado), akupunturo ( agul-kuracado), averajo (mez-valoro), astronautiko(astronavigado),igluo (glacio-domo), kruo( viraro, nav-trupo), obstetriko ( akush-arto), parashuto ( parafalo), parvenuo( parvenit(ach)o, pavimento(planko-sulo),potato (ter-pomo), puntuar(puntizar), putano( (prostitucatino), ridikula(ridind/ach/a), sabotar( fushar), taxio( taximetro-fiakro), toalo ( tualet-tuko), snobo ( super/ul/o, fierach/ul/o), gerar/werar ( portar, esar vestizita, metar, uzar, vestizar), itemo ( artikl/et/o, paragrafo, detalo, kozo), mobo ( hom-amaso), prevalar ( prevalorar), prolifika ( fekund/eg/a, fertil/eg/a), resurso ( moyeno, rekurso, havajo, remedilo, provizuro), resemblar ( similesar), triko ( trompo, dupigo, fraud/et/o), vehementa ( impetuoza, impetuema), bebeo( infanteto), aerodromo ( aviaco-hangaro), mediokra ( mez-valora, pasableta), luncho ( repasteto, dejuneto), abaniko ( ventizilo), elevatoro ( acensilo), suveniro (memorigilo, memorigivo). Segun semblo, urjas emundar la listi pri tanta ne-necesa nova vorti. Ma me konkordas: ni ne bezonas vera ne-necesa vorti. Amikala saluti, Herder. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Chandler" To: Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti > > Kara Herder ed amiki > > Quale dicis Otto Jespersen, ni devas ne konstante adjuntar nova vorti > nenecese ad Ido. To nur komplikigas la lernado di nia linguo. Bona exemplo > es slumo* o favelo*. Ni ne bezonas ica vorti en Ido nam per nia sufixo -ach > nia povas facile formacar quarter/acho, quo tote suficas. Generale me ne es > konservema pri developo di Ido, ma tala nenecesa vorti nur expansas ne-utile > (o mem nocive) la vortolibri. > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented > European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with > Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested > and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 > > > > > >From: "Herder" > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti > >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:29:22 -0300 > > > > > >Kara Gon�alo, > > > >Me dankas vua komenti. > > > >Pri *slumo : A= shanty town ( the slums), F. bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H. > >chabolas > > > >vu skribis: > > > >( ...) < *slumo apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e > >do es desfacile rikonocebla, mem da orelo Angla> > > > >Argumento ponderebla; vu esas tre probable korekta. > > > >Vu anke skribis: > > > > > >(...) < En Portugal on uzas la Braziliana vorto ( " favela") nur kande on > >volas specale mencionar tal quarteri Braziliana.Kande on volas mencionar > >tal quarteri Portugalana on uzas l �expresuro "bairro de lata" ( lada > >quartero), qua es proxim la Franca nomizo "bidonville ("bidona urbo"). Ka > >ni ne povus adoptar simila solvo en Ido?" > > > > >Me konkordas: on devus rezervar "favelo" por specale mencionar tala > >quarteri Braziliana. Relate taspeca quarteri, generale, "lada, bidona, o > >simple, povra quartero, esus forsan plu adequata kam *slumo. > > > >Saluti amikala, > > > >Herder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1704 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62842 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2005 05:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2005 05:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.118) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2005 05:29:22 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050408052921.NAGP7126.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:29:21 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.135] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050408052921.MNZ22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:29:21 +1200 To: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 17:29:20 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20050408052921.MNZ22382.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.135]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara James ed amiki, Me konkordas ke Ido aceptus nova vorti sucioze. Nia linguo havas granda vortaro ed ampla listo di afixi. Komprenende ni bezonas nova vorti por deskovri od inventuri, ma per l�existanta vorti ed afixi, ofte ni povas facar necesa vorto. (1) *slumo. Domacharo semblas tote apta. (2) A: air-conditioner. �klimatizatoro� semblas tro longa e negracila. Quankam certena lingui uzas vorti qui kontenas �klimat-�, l�altri uzas, kom angla, vorti kun �aer-�. Kurta vorto es desfacila, ma forsan �aerostandoro� o plu longa, �aerostandagoro�. Me kredas ke l�exakta senco produktos pezoza vorto. (3) A: cartoon (*kartuno) havas adminime du senci: (a) Un o plura pikturi, ofte drola, en libro o cinemo. (b) Preliminara skizuro do �prepikturo�. (4) La sugesto da Gon�alo Neves di nova sufixo �-atoro� havas merito, ma quale me ja asertas, pro ke angla havas multa vorti kun finalo �-er� od � �or�, (por mashini o moyeno), es facila e plu kurta se on uzas en Ido �-oro�, (nova sufixo es nenecesa). Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2005/04/08 Fri AM 06:06:51 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti > > > Kara Herder ed amiki > > Quale dicis Otto Jespersen, ni devas ne konstante adjuntar nova vorti > nenecese ad Ido. To nur komplikigas la lernado di nia linguo. Bona exemplo > es slumo* o favelo*. Ni ne bezonas ica vorti en Ido nam per nia sufixo -ach > nia povas facile formacar quarter/acho, quo tote suficas. Generale me ne es > konservema pri developo di Ido, ma tala nenecesa vorti nur expansas ne-utile > (o mem nocive) la vortolibri. > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented > European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with > Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested > and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 > > > > > >From: "Herder" > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [linguo] Kelka vorti > >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:29:22 -0300 > > > > > >Kara Gon�alo, > > > >Me dankas vua komenti. > > > >Pri *slumo : A= shanty town ( the slums), F. bidonville, G= Elenviertel, H. > >chabolas > > > >vu skribis: > > > >( ...) < *slumo apene riproduktas la pronunco dil originala Angla vorto e > >do es desfacile rikonocebla, mem da orelo Angla> > > > >Argumento ponderebla; vu esas tre probable korekta. > > > >Vu anke skribis: > > > > > >(...) < En Portugal on uzas la Braziliana vorto ( " favela") nur kande on > >volas specale mencionar tal quarteri Braziliana.Kande on volas mencionar > >tal quarteri Portugalana on uzas l �expresuro "bairro de lata" ( lada > >quartero), qua es proxim la Franca nomizo "bidonville ("bidona urbo"). Ka > >ni ne povus adoptar simila solvo en Ido?" > > > > >Me konkordas: on devus rezervar "favelo" por specale mencionar tala > >quarteri Braziliana. Relate taspeca quarteri, generale, "lada, bidona, o > >simple, povra quartero, esus forsan plu adequata kam *slumo. > > > >Saluti amikala, > > > >Herder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1705 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76557 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2005 21:00:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2005 21:00:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2005 21:00:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 60141 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2005 21:00:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20050409210049.60139.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.32] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:00:49 CEST Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:00:49 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00ec01c53b03$ce7f0a20$87c217c3@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Ankorfoye pri -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Goncalo! Yen to quon tu skribis: >>> Se Andreas hiere (od en antea dii) lektis multa libri pri kemio, hodie Andreas esas lektinta ta libri, od altradice ma tote samsence, hodie Andreas esas lektinto di ta libri. Se la verbala formo '-abas' es samsenca kam 'esas -inta' (e nur ta equivalo igas ol gramatikale admisebla), la frazo "Hodie Andreas esas lektinta multa libri pri kemio" es samsenca kam "Hodie Andreas lektabas multa libri por kemio". >>> Tamen, kara Goncalo, me duras sentar ke tal frazo es ne tote justa e do ne-konvenanta. Ol es, adminime, tre ambigua. Pro lo, me devas insistar, ke l' vorto "Hodie" miskomprenigas la frazo. Omno quon "Hiere me lektis, hodie me lektabas", yes. Tamen: Omno quon "Hodie me lektis, hodie me lektabas". To es: Omno quon "Hodie (dumjorne) me lektis, hodie (nokte) me lektabas (anke)". Yen la problemo. Pro lo, me sugestis ne uzar "Hodie", qua relatas nur la nuna dio, ma altra vorti, nome "Prezente, Aktuale, Nuntempe" o simila. To desaparigus l'ambigueso: "Prezente, me lektabas multa libri pri kemio". "Prezente", "Til nun", ma ne "Hodie" ipsa! Me preferas tua duesma frazo (ol es ya min ambigua): "Til nun (Til hodie), me lektis (o lektabas) multa libri pri kemio". Fortunoze, anke tu preferas ol. Quankam fakte, se me bone komprenis, suficus: ("Ka tu savas pri kemio?") "Me lektabas (o lektis) multa libri pri kemio". Maxim kordiale... P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1706 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84627 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2005 09:12:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2005 09:12:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Apr 2005 09:12:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 793C2558 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:42:09 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00541-03 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:41:56 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8D0255626; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:41:53 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52928558 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:41:53 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:41:53 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00ec01c53b03$ce7f0a20$87c217c3@oemcomputer> Message-ID: References: <20050405014556.26818.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <00ec01c53b03$ce7f0a20$87c217c3@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Ankorfoye pri -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Goncalo Neves wrote: > Kara Partaka, > >>> "Hodie me lektabas multa libri pri kemio..." > >> Pos lektir l'unesma ek tua du frazi, me miskomprenis >> ol. To signifikas, ke se tua iba uzo di -abas es >> justa, >> me certe es ta qua uzas ta formo verbal ne-juste. > > Se Andreas hiere (od en antea dii) lektis multa libri pri kemio, hodie > Andreas esas lektinta ta libri, od altradice ma tote samsence, hodie Andreas > esas lektinto di ta libri. Se la verbala formo '-abas' es samsenca kam > 'esas -inta' (e nur ta equivalo igas ol gramatikale admisebla), la frazo > "Hodie Andreas esas lektinta multa libri pri kemio" es samsenca kam "Hodie > Andreas lektabas multa libri por kemio". Yes. Hodie, Andreas esas en la stando, ke dum lua vivo avan la nuna tempo (hiere, od en antea dii, o plu frue hodie) lu lektis multa tala libri. Do, hodie, Andreas lektabas multa tala libri. Por signifikar ke, de la komenco di ca nuna dio, lu lektis oli, on mustas dicar ke lu _lektis_ oli hodie. La exemplo bone montras la desfacileso pri -ab-, e ke nia pioniri esis justa prizar la simpla preterito vice la "imparfait". Lia normo pri to esas saja. Se on volas dicar ke dum ica dio on lektis multa tala libri, on devas ne dicar ke lor ica dio on lektabas oli. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1707 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27741 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2005 15:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2005 15:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.22) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Apr 2005 15:31:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:31:16 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:31:16 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <000001c53e92$debb6ea0$f72c90d4@u7h5x7> To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:31:16 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2005 15:31:16.0991 (UTC) FILETIME=[80B9B0F0:01C53EAB] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar Alfred Me tendecas fidar a la vortolibri da Dyer kom definitiva. Tamen existas dubito. Kad altru povas klarigar ico? Nia linguala sekretario, exemple? Quon dicas la vortolibro da Pesch? Me ne posedas ta libro. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "Neussner" >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:13:25 +0200 > > >Segun la dicionario Ido-Germana da Feder >esas "balnar" tr. e netr., do, me povas dicar >simple "me balnas". >A.Neussner > >-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: James Chandler >An: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com ; >francidol@yahoogroups.com >Datum: Donnerstag, 7. April 2005 19:54 >Betreff: RE: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? > > > > > >Kara Jacques > > > >Segun Dyer, baln/ar es transitiva verbo en Ido. Do me opinionas ke on > >mustas uzar "balnar su" exemple: me balnas me, vu balnas vu, il balnas >su. > > > >Kordiale, James Chandler > >idojc@hotmail.com > >http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > >http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > >http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > > >"We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented > >European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are >with > >Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are >interested > >and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 > > > > > > > > > >>From: "jacquesdehe" > >>Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com > >>To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com > >>Subject: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? > >>Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 09:33:51 -0000 > >> > >> > >> > >>Kara James, > >> > >>Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? > >> > >>[ido: BALNAR] [de 92: baden] [en 65: bath] [fr 63: baigner] [it > >>60: bagnare] [es 40: baniar] [pl 39: kapac] [nl 21: baden] [pt > >>11: banhar] [cs 10,5: koupat] [ca 9: banyar] [sv 9: bada] [da 5: > >>bade] [sk 5: kupat] [eu 1,1: bainatu] [eo: bani] [ia: baniar] > >>[lfn: baniar] (en construction) > >>* > >>[ido: BALANAR SU] [de 92: baden; sich baden] [en 65: have a bath; > >>have a swim] [fr 63: se baigner] [it 60: fare il bagno] [es 40: > >>baniarse] [pl 39: kapac sie] [nl 21: een bad nemen; zwemmen] [pt > >>11: banhar-se] [cs 10,5: koupat se] [ca 9: banyar-se] [sv 9: > >>bada] [da 5: tage et bad; gaa i bad] [sk 5: kupat sa] [eu 1,1: > >>bainatu] [eo: banigxi] [ia: baniar se] [lfn: baniar] (en > >>construction) > >>* > >> > >>Danko, kordiale, > >>Jacques > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >> > >>http://www.ido.li > >> > >>Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma >e > >>27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). > >>Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: > >>http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > > > >http://www.ido.li > > > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma >e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). > >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: > >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1708 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90393 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2005 18:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2005 18:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2005 18:42:33 -0000 Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DLQLI-0008OI-00; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:42:32 +0200 Received: from [83.171.152.137] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DLQLH-0002TJ-00; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:42:31 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c53f8f$5a403e00$fd54fea9@privatdesktop> To: "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:42:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Invito a l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e 27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Omna Idisti e simpatieri dil linguo internaciona esas kordialege invita= ta asistar l'internaciona Ido- renkontro ye fino di septembro 2005. La renk= ontro eventos inter la 23esma di septembro (arivo) e la 27esma di septembr= o 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). La sejorneyo esos en la hotelo "Anatole F= rance". Omna chambri en ol esas por 2 personi, on pagas en Francia por cham= bro e ne por personi. On pagas o 29 Euro por chambro kun tualeteyo sur la= koridoro do14,50 Euro ye un persono, o por chambro kun tualeteyo, televizi= ono e dusheyo 34 Euro por du personi do 17 Euro ye un persono. Por prezerv= ar chambro on mustas pagar la kontributo por un nokto maxim tarde un monato= antee. Konseque partopren-anunci nur povas egardesar pos prepago dil ko= ntributo por un nokto. Pro ke la samideano, qua rezervos la chambri surlok= e vakancos dum julio ed agosto 2005 esas necesa, ke omna prepagi arivez che= me til maxim tarde la 05esma di junio 2005! Voluntez sendar la prepago a l= a bank-konto di Frank Kasper che la Deutsche Bank Bonn, konto-numer= o 3560422, bank-kodexo 380 707 24 IBAN: DE63 3807 0724 0356 0422 00 , = BIC: DEUTDEDB (IBAN e BIC nur esas uzebla por lojanti dil Eurozono ecep= te Germani por sparar internaciona bank-spensi.) Anke esas posibla kamp= ar en tendeyo. La preco por 2 personi+tendo+automobilo esas singlanokte 12 = Euro. L'adreso di la tendeyo: 21 Chemin du Pont de Rup=E9 F- 31200 Toulou= se - telefono: (00 33) 5 61 70 07 35 On povas uzar l'omnibuso n=B0 59 = ala urbocentro ( de halteyo Rup=E9-aden l' urbo, halteyo Jeanne D'Arc),200 = m a la konfereyo. Nia samideano surloke anke povos zorgar pri la rezervado.= Kom turistala programo ni projetas guidadi en Toulouse ed exkurso dum = un jorno a la historiala urbo Carcassonne. Me ja hodie prejoyas rividar mul= ta konocata samideani e vidar anke nova samideani okazione dil Ido-renkontr= o 2005 en Toulouse. Voluntez anuncar via partopreno letre o per e-posto t= il maxim tarde la 05esma di junio 2005 che: Frank Kasper PF 73 01 28 D-9= 0243 Nuernberg Germania e-posto: frank.kasper@ido.li Anunc-formularon= por plenigar od imprimar vu trovas ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Fra= ncia/Idorenkontro2005 . Ti, qui erste pos la 05esma di junio decidos part= oprenar devos ipsa sorgar por chambro en la hotelo o loko che la kampeyo!!!= Kordiala saluti Frank Kasper prezidanto dil Germana Ido-Societo kunar= anjero dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1709 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91798 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2005 21:19:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2005 21:19:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2005 21:19:21 -0000 Received: from gr.189.170.20.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.170.20] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DLSn2-000LkY-5k; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:19:20 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:12:05 +0100 Message-ID: <200541222125.272543@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Nova adreso pri Ido, kun parto di nova lexiko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Nun esas nova adreso por pagini pri Ido: idolinguo.org.uk La majoritato di= l pagini ankore ye users/aol.com/idolinguo (loko ja plena) esas nun anke ye= la nova adreso qua ofras multe plu granda spaco e qua remplasos la anciena= adreso pos kelka tempo. Nova pagino esas: idolinguo.org.uk/idana-c.htm T= o esas unesma parto di moderna lexiko Ido-Angla (literi A-C: korespondanta = a 57 ek 402 pagini, do cirkume 14%, en la lexiko Ido-Angla da Dyer). Ankore= adjuntinda esas Latina termini por planti ed animali. Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1710 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76871 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2005 21:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Apr 2005 21:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2005 21:19:23 -0000 Received: from gr.189.170.20.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.170.20] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DLSn4-000LkY-5G; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:19:22 +0100 To: , Cc: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:22:25 +0100 Message-ID: <2005412222225.573844@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Alfred, Goncalo, Jacques e James, Me anke generale fidas a Dyer. Tam= en, en la kazo di "balnar" me mustas supozar ke lu eroris, nam preske omna = altra vortolibro indikas ke "balnar" esas transitiva e netransitiva. Tale i= ndikas de Beaufront e Couturat (vortolibro Franca-Ido), Guignon (Ido-Franca= ), Feder & Schneeberger (Ido-Germana), Bakonyi (Ido-Madyara) e Pesch. La A= ngla e Franca vorti esas anke transitiva e netransitiva. Do, netransitive, = balnar =3D A to bathe =3D F baigner. Existas altra verbi pri qui existas l= a sama problemo. Semblas a me ke esus absurda se ni ri-imprimus o modernigu= s la anciena vortari sen eliminar ta diferi nociva. Recente me uzis sat mu= lta hori studiante ta verbi, inkluzante "balnar", e fortunoze en preske omn= a kazi povis arivar a konkluzo quan me uzos en mea vortolisto. En poka kazi= la situeso esas tro obskura, e me devos invitar helpo; forsan esos necesa = havar fresha decido da la DK. Robert. P.S. Alfred - danko pri "neglijar".= Vu esas justa. P.S. James - forsan me faliis remarkar vu en London saturd= ie kande diskursis Marta Andreasen, la Hispana antea chefo pri konti dil Eu= ropana Uniono. On ekpulsis el de la ofico pro elua esforci introduktar norm= ala kontrolado pri pagi, spensi e konti. El parolis pri fraudi e la kulturo= di korupteso ibe. El dicis ke plurfoye el ofris, anke recente, explikar al= Europana Parlamento pri to quon el deskovrabis, ma mem la Parlamento ne vo= lis askoltar. Pose me pensis pri la Angla dicajo: "Esas nulu tante surda ka= m ti qui volas ne askoltar". ___________________ James Chandler skribis: = Kar Alfred Me tendecas fidar a la vortolibri da Dyer kom definitiva. =A0T= amen existas dubito. =A0Kad altru povas klarigar ico? =A0Nia linguala sekre= tario, exemple? Quon dicas la vortolibro da Pesch? =A0Me ne posedas ta libr= o. Kordiale, James Chandler Alfred Neussner skribis: Segun la dicionari= o Ido-Germana da Feder esas "balnar" =A0tr. e netr., do, me povas dicar sim= ple "me balnas". A.Neussner From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1711 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27920 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 04:15:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2005 04:15:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 04:15:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2005 04:15:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Apr 2005 04:15:05 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 04:15:03 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200541222125.272543@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 687 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: Nova adreso pri Ido, kun parto di nova lexiko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Robert, Granda e bela Ido-laboro ! Danko e brave ! Kordiale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Nun esas nova adreso por pagini pri Ido: > idolinguo.org.uk > > La majoritato dil pagini ankore ye users/aol.com/idolinguo (loko ja plena) esas nun anke ye la nova adreso qua ofras multe plu granda spaco e qua remplasos la anciena adreso pos kelka tempo. > > Nova pagino esas: > idolinguo.org.uk/idana-c.htm > > To esas unesma parto di moderna lexiko Ido-Angla (literi A-C: korespondanta a 57 ek 402 pagini, do cirkume 14%, en la lexiko Ido- Angla da Dyer). Ankore adjuntinda esas Latina termini por planti ed animali. > > Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1712 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10883 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 16:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly05.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.215) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 10339 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 16:13:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.193]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 4879 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 16:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.129]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:21 -0000 Message-ID: <003301c54044$5aa5db60$81c217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <20050409210049.60139.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:39:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ankorfoye pri -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Partaka, > Tamen, kara Goncalo, me duras sentar ke tal frazo > es ne tote justa e do ne-konvenanta. Ol es, adminime, > tre ambigua. Pro lo, me devas insistar, ke l' vorto > "Hodie" miskomprenigas la frazo. Michael Talbot-Wilson ja respondizis vua objeciono. Me tote asentas lua expliko. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1713 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51541 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 16:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly02.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.212) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 13874 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 16:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.193]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly02.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 4907 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 16:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.129]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 16:13:23 -0000 Message-ID: <003401c54044$5b9878c0$81c217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: <2005412222225.573844@SonyFX805> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:16:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, Yen mea komenti pri vua lasta mesajo. I) Pri 'balnar': > Tamen, en la kazo di "balnar" me mustas supozar ke lu eroris, nam preske omna altra vortolibro indikas ke "balnar" esas transitiva e netransitiva. Tale indikas de Beaufront e Couturat (vortolibro Franca-Ido), Guignon (Ido-Franca), Feder & Schneeberger (Ido-Germana), Bakonyi (Ido-Madyara) e Pesch.< Nu, ne sempre on povas trovar la bona voyo per tala komparo, sen plusa analizo e pondero. On savas ke ofte dicionario kalquas altra dicionario, e ke ne omna lexikografi agas quale vu, t.e. ne omni sucias, ne omni haltas por pensar, ne omni questionas, ne omni havas dubiti, o per poka vorti: ne omni es humila. Exemple pri Pesch: il ya atribuis a 'balnar' anke netransitiva senco, ma il definis olca per... transitiva verbo: �balnar. II (netrans.) Humidigar abunde�! Lo vera sempre emersas... >La Angla e Franca vorti esas anke transitiva e netransitiva. Do, netransitive, balnar = A to bathe = F baigner.< Yes, tamen... pri ca punto la Franca postulas plusa analizo: 1) Pri la signifiko di transitiva 'baigner': a) �plonger e tenir dans l'eau ou dans un autre liquide� [imersar e mantenar en aquo od altra liquido]: la m�re baignait l'enfant: la matro balnis la infanto on s'est baign� dans la rivi�re: ni balnis ni en la rivero il s'est baign� dans la baignoire: il balnis su en la balno-kuvo b) �humecter, mouiller� [humidigi]: il avait le visage baign� de larmes: lua vizajo esis tote lakrimoza (o: lua vizajo esis inundita da lakrimi) front baign� de sueur: sudoroza fronto c) �toucher, traverser de ses eaux� [tushar o trairar per sua aquo]: la Seine baigne Paris [(la rivero) Seine aquizas Paris] d) �p�n�trer, impr�gner� [penetrar, impregnar]: paysage baign� de lumi�re: lumoza peizajo 2) Pri la signifiko di netransitiva 'baigner': ��tre enti�rement plong� [esar submersita]: ces cerises baignent dans l'eau-de-vie: ca cerizi es submersita en la brandio les saucisses baignent dans l'huille: la socisi es submersita en la oleo ils baignaient dans leur sang: li esis submersita en sua sango la situation baigne dans l'ambigu�t�: la *situaciono es tote ambigua Konkluze: 'baigner' ya es anke netransitiva en la Franca, ma kun senco tote altra kam la vizata da Neussner. Pro to on povas dicar ke FGHI impozas 'balnar su', kontre ke nur A pledas por netransitiva 'balnar'. Pluse, transitiva 'balnar' plu bone kongruas la du analoga verbi transitiva 'lavar' e 'dushar'. Dyer do es tote justa pri ca punto. Il meritas mem duopla aplaudo, nam il sucesis eludar la influo da sua linguo matral. Il bone egardis la internacioneso dil radiko. Generale Dyer es tote fidinda pri (ne)transitiveso, o plu bone, il es la maxim fidinda pri ta punto gramatikal (multe plu fidinda kam Pesch e mem plu fidinda kam Couturat/Beaufront). Me cetere astonesas pro ca habileso di Dyer, konsiderante ke pri transitiveso la Angla - lua matrala linguo - es forsan la maxim laxa idiomo en la mondo. Til nun me trovis nur un verbo quan il certe klasifikis erore: 'kustumar'. Ca verbo ya es transitiva (mem se on ne aceptus altra objekto kam infinitivo), ma Dyer etiketizis ol kom netransitiva. Forsan il eroris anke pri la verbo 'kongruar', quan il klasifikis kom netransitiva, kontre lo agita da Couturat/Beaufront e Pesch. Me skribis �forsan�, pro ke me ne es certa kad il eroris. En ca mesajo me ipsa transitive uzas 'kongruar', ma rezerveme, nam me ne ja parstudiis la problemo. Omnakaze, un unika tal eroro (o du) sur 402 pagini bone montras ke Dyer es nia maxim talentoza lexikografo. Do ni darfas esar fiera ke ni "havas" il. II) Pri transitiveso generale: La temo es komplexa e meritas ampla trakto. Volunte me skribus detaloza studiuro o mem esayo pri ol, ma nun me es tro okupata da longa ed intrikanta traduko ad Ido. Tamen me ne falios dicar lo sequanta. Tempope on reprochas Ido pro kelka desfacila punti di lua gramatiko. La transitiveso di lua verbi es ofta skopo-plako di tal reprochi, e precipue la existo di mixita verbi herisigas la hari di multi. Mixita es la verbi qui uzesas transitive e netransitive - kun la sama senco. Exemple: turnar, finar, komencar, durar, cesar, sinkar, chanjar. Nu, kelki astonesas da tal traito di nia gramatiko e missupozas ke nia pioniri selektis ta verbi segun la direciono dil vento o la kaprico dil marei. Ne komprenante la kriterii e la metodi on evidente tentesas questionar: se 'sinkar' e 'turnar' es mixita, pro quo 'balnar' ne darfas esar tala? Nu, la afero ne es tante simpla. La verbi mixita ya uzesas transitive e netransitive kun la sama senco - ma ne kun la sama funciono. Per exempli la expliko fluos plu bone: 1. Petrus turnis la pagino di la libro. 2. Petrus turnis su kande il audis bruiso dop su. 3. La pagino di la libro turnesis kande Petrus apertis la fenestro. 4. La tero turnas cirkum la suno. Inter la quar agi supera existas la sequanta diferi e similesi: a) 1, 2 e 3 es pasable instantala, kontre ke 4 es duranta o mem kontinua. b) 1 e 2 expresas voluntala ago dil subjekto, kontre ke 3 e 4 expresas pasiva ago dil subjekto. c) La ago 1 falas sur objekto exter la subjekto, kontre ke la ago 2 falas sur la subjekto ipsa, od altre dicite, la objekto e la subjekto es la sama ento. On do povas dicar ke en la frazo "la tero turnas cirkum la suno" la verbala formo 'turnas' es quaza abreviuro di 'turnesas'. Ol tote ne es quaza abreviuro di 'turnas su', nam la tero ne "turnas su" ma turnesas, t.e. facas la ago turnar tote pasive. Pro to on darfus tote korekte dicar "la tero turnesas cirkum la suno", ma ordinare on ne agas lo pro ke on preferas rezervar la verbala formo 'turnesar' por ago pasable instantal. La sama rezono es aplikebla al frazo 3. On ne darfas dicar "la pagino turnis su", pro ke hike la ago turnar facesas pasive. La pagino tote ne "turnis su" ma turnesis da extera forco (suflo eniranta tra la fenestro quan Petrus apertis) . On tamen darfus tote korekte dicar "la pagino turnis", ma ordinare on ne agas lo pro ke on preferas rezervar la verbala formo 'turnar' por ago pasable duranta o mem kontinua. La sama rezono valoras kande traktesas la frazo 2. On darfus dicar "Petrus turnesis kande il audis bruiso", ma ordinare on ne agas lo pro ke on volas acentizar ke la ago es voluntala o, se ne voluntala, adminime pasable aktiva. Same, on darfus dicar "Petrus turnis kande il audis bruiso", ma ordinare on ne agas lo pro ke on preferas rezervar la verbala formo 'turnar' por ago pasable duranta o mem kontinua. Nun ni probez aplikar la sama analizo al verbo 'balnar': 1. Petrus balnis sua gambi en la rivero. 2. La gambi di Petrus balnesis en la rivero. 3. Petrus balnis su en la rivero. 4. Petrus balnis en la rivero. Inter la quar agi supera existas la sequanta diferi e similesi: a) 1, 2, 3 e 4 es pasable duranta (nula difero). b) 1, 2 e 4 expresas voluntala ago dil subjekto, kontre ke 3 expresas pasiva ago dil subjekto. c) La ago 1 falas sur objekto ne exter la subjekto ma altra kam la subjekto, kontre ke la ago 3 e 4 falas sur la subjekto ipsa, od altre dicite, la objekto e la subjekto es la sama ento. Konkluze, existas NULA difero inter 3 e 4. To montras ke la verbo 'balnar' ne havas la sama karaktero kam la verbo 'turnar', analizita supere. Ta difero konsequas de ke 'balnar' NE es mixita verbo. Se ol esus tala, inter 'Petrus balnas' e 'Petrus balnas su' existus nuanco. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1714 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36813 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 20:12:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2005 20:12:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.31) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 20:12:41 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:12:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:12:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <2005412222225.573844@SonyFX805> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, idolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:12:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2005 20:12:41.0163 (UTC) FILETIME=[254D61B0:01C54065] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Danko pro vua klarigo - me regretas ke Dyer ne sempre es fidebla, nam takaze on ne bezonus altra vortolibri referebla. Pri London: no, vu ne faliis remarkar me, nam me ne esis ibe. Me ne povas asistar omna evento, quon me reklamas en interreto. Ma pri la EU-problemo, savez ke me helpas altramaniere... Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: Robert >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: , >CC: >Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] Ka 'balnar su' esas korekta ? >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:22:25 +0100 > > >Kara Alfred, Goncalo, Jacques e James, > >Me anke generale fidas a Dyer. > >Tamen, en la kazo di "balnar" me mustas supozar ke lu eroris, nam preske >omna altra vortolibro indikas ke "balnar" esas transitiva e netransitiva. >Tale indikas de Beaufront e Couturat (vortolibro Franca-Ido), Guignon >(Ido-Franca), Feder & Schneeberger (Ido-Germana), Bakonyi (Ido-Madyara) e >Pesch. > >La Angla e Franca vorti esas anke transitiva e netransitiva. Do, >netransitive, balnar = A to bathe = F baigner. > >Existas altra verbi pri qui existas la sama problemo. Semblas a me ke esus >absurda se ni ri-imprimus o modernigus la anciena vortari sen eliminar ta >diferi nociva. > >Recente me uzis sat multa hori studiante ta verbi, inkluzante "balnar", e >fortunoze en preske omna kazi povis arivar a konkluzo quan me uzos en mea >vortolisto. En poka kazi la situeso esas tro obskura, e me devos invitar >helpo; forsan esos necesa havar fresha decido da la DK. > >Robert. > >P.S. Alfred - danko pri "neglijar". Vu esas justa. > >P.S. James - forsan me faliis remarkar vu en London saturdie kande >diskursis Marta Andreasen, la Hispana antea chefo pri konti dil Europana >Uniono. On ekpulsis el de la ofico pro elua esforci introduktar normala >kontrolado pri pagi, spensi e konti. El parolis pri fraudi e la kulturo di >korupteso ibe. El dicis ke plurfoye el ofris, anke recente, explikar al >Europana Parlamento pri to quon el deskovrabis, ma mem la Parlamento ne >volis askoltar. Pose me pensis pri la Angla dicajo: "Esas nulu tante surda >kam ti qui volas ne askoltar". > >___________________ > >James Chandler skribis: > >Kar Alfred > >Me tendecas fidar a la vortolibri da Dyer kom definitiva. �Tamen existas >dubito. �Kad altru povas klarigar ico? �Nia linguala sekretario, exemple? >Quon dicas la vortolibro da Pesch? �Me ne posedas ta libro. > >Kordiale, James Chandler > > >Alfred Neussner skribis: > >Segun la dicionario Ido-Germana da Feder >esas "balnar" �tr. e netr., do, me povas dicar >simple "me balnas". >A.Neussner > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1715 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21548 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 20:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2005 20:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 20:18:41 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:18:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:18:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, ido-angla@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:18:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2005 20:18:41.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[FBD14E40:01C54065] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] G kontre J X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara David La distributo di G e J en Ido es ya sistemoza. Nome segun la regulo, ke on uzez G ube, e nur ube, ol uzesas en la Germana linguo. Altraloke on uzez J. Interesanta kazo es jiraf/o, nam hike angla uzas J (fonetikale) e germana uzas G. Icakaze Ido sequas la angla, do ecepto di la regulo. Me esperas ke co helpas. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "David Mann" >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido] G kontre J >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:35:05 -0000 > > > >Kar Amiki, > >Kande onu kreis la Ido-vortaro, quan regulin on uzis por decidar quale >espelar vorti kun "mola" G en la lingui fontala? To esas, quale on >decidis ke "genitiva" devas recevar G e "jeneroza" devas recevar J? >Kad existas kompleta sistemo decidal, o forsan on agis la selekti >nesistematre? > >Kordiale, >David MANN >www.idolinguo.org > > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1716 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81308 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2005 20:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2005 20:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.36) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2005 20:25:07 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:25:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:25:06 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200541222125.272543@SonyFX805> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, idolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:25:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2005 20:25:06.0983 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1D87B70:01C54066] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Nova adreso pri Ido, kun parto di nova lexiko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Danko pro ca nova adreso, e pro vua magna laboro linguala quon vu komencas expozar ibe. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: Robert >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: Linguolisto , Idolisto > >Subject: [linguo] Nova adreso pri Ido, kun parto di nova lexiko >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:12:05 +0100 > > >Nun esas nova adreso por pagini pri Ido: >idolinguo.org.uk > >La majoritato dil pagini ankore ye users/aol.com/idolinguo (loko ja plena) >esas nun anke ye la nova adreso qua ofras multe plu granda spaco e qua >remplasos la anciena adreso pos kelka tempo. > >Nova pagino esas: >idolinguo.org.uk/idana-c.htm > >To esas unesma parto di moderna lexiko Ido-Angla (literi A-C: korespondanta >a 57 ek 402 pagini, do cirkume 14%, en la lexiko Ido-Angla da Dyer). Ankore >adjuntinda esas Latina termini por planti ed animali. > >Robert. > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1717 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62578 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2005 04:11:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 04:11:57 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2092 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: problemi pri CIRKUM, POS, PRO, SUPER e TRANS ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe ido: CIRKUM [de 92: um] [en 65: around (rank: 534)] [fr 63: autour] [it 60: intorno] [es 40: alrededor] [pl 39: okolo] [nl 21: rondum] [ro 20: in jurul] [hu 14: koere] [el 12: gyro] [pt 11: em volta] [cs 10,5: okolo; kolem] [ca 9: entorn] [gl 4: arredor] [eu 1,1: barano] [ido: cirkum] [eo: cxirkaw] [ia: circum] [lfn: sirka] [nov: sirk] (en construction) * ido: POS [de 92: nach] [en 65: after] [fr 63: apres] [it 60: dopo] [es 40: despues de] [pl 39: po; za] [nl 21: na; naar] [ro 20: dupa] [hu 14: utan; utana] [pt 11: depois de] [cs 10,5: po] [ca 9: despres de] [da 5: efter] [sk 5: za] [gl 4: despois] [lv 2: pec] [sl 1,9: za] [eu 1,1: gero; oste] [eo: post] [ia: post] [lfn: pos] [nov: after] (en construction) * ido: PRO [de 92: weil] [en 65: because (rank: 106)] [fr 63: parce que] [it 60: perche] [es 40: porque] [pl 39: bo; poniewaz] [nl 21: omdat] [ro 20: pentru ca] [hu 14: mert] [el 12: epeidi; giati; dioti] [pt 11: porque] [cs 10,5: protoze] [ca 9: perque] [fi 5: koska] [eo: pro] [ia: perque; proque] [lfn: per ce] [nov: pro] (en construction) * ido: SUPER [de 92: ueber] [en 65: above] [fr 63: au-dessus de] [it 60: sopra] [es 40: arriba de; sobre; encima de] [pl 39: ponad] [nl 21: boven] [ro 20: deasupra] [pt 11: acima; por cima] [cs 10,5: nad] [ca 9: damunt] [sv 9: oever] [da 5: ovenover; over] [hr 4,8: iznad] [ru 1,7: nad] [eu 1,1: gainean] [ma 0,4: fuq] [eo: super] [ia: supra] [lfn: supra] [nov: super] (en construction) * ido: TRANS [de 92: quer ueber] [en 65: through (rank: 116); across (rank: 413)] [fr 63: a travers] [it 60: attraverso] [es 40: a traves de] [pl 39: poprzez] [nl 21: overheen] [ro 20: prin] [pt 11: atraves de] [cs 10,5: pres] [bg 9: chrez] [ca 9: a traves] [sv 9: genom] [da 5: over] [sk 5: cez] [gl 4: a traves de] [ga 3: tri] [lv 2: cauri] [et 1: laebi] [eo: trans] [ia: a traverso de] [lfn: tra] [nov: tra; trans] (en construction) * (La traduki esas adiacritika*) * Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1718 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71942 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2005 08:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2005 08:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 08:12:24 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:12:03 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:12:03 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <01bf01c541c5$7cba15e0$1f61c23e@azalia> To: ido.info@chello.nl Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:12:03 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2005 08:12:03.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[237A8490:01C54325] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Hans Yen mea respondi a vua korektigi di mea artiklo Marrakech: http://www.geocities.com/idojc/marrakech.html interesanta anke por la Linguolistani, me opinionas: Enigmala (= enigmatala) enigmo (= enigmato) JC> Me konsentas oaso (= oaziso) JC> Me konsentas Joshua > Ioshua JC> Segun me stilala punto. Me preferas tala nomi per J-, exemple Jesu vice Iesu intersekas > intertranchas (segun Pesch, sekar = kirurgiala ago) JC> Segun Dyer, inter/sek/ar tradukas angla "to intersect", la intencita senco klamante decendo > asertante decendo (quankam me preferas: asertante decendAR) JC> Me konsentas pri "asertante decendo" sekis > tranchis JC> Me konsentas: ya importanta difero inter sek/ar e tranch/ar! sekita > tranchita; taliita JC> Hike me prizas tali/ita La Sangema > La Sangifema (ne existas verbo "sangar", do ne povas esar sufixizita '-em') JC> Ka ni ne darfas uzar -em anke kun substantivi? shampunesas > shampunagesas (shampunesas = esas shampuno) JC> Segun Dyer, shampun/ar es verbo de-sekar > de-tranchar JC> Me konsentas atraktivo > atraktajo, atraktivajo JC> Hike me sustenas mea solvo, kp. nutrivo esamas > esamifas (esamo = substantivo) JC> Segun me, eroro en Ido. esam- es juste verbala radiko, nam esam/ifar es absurda. Kad abelaro vere produktas esamo? Juste li _es_ la esamo. Me preferas esamas* kun asterisko. Danko pro kontrolar mea texto. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "H. Stuifbergen" >To: "James Chandler" >Subject: "Marrakech" >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:14:50 +0200 > >Kara James, > >En vua (cetere ecelanteg ed interesant) artiklo me trovis kelk eroreti e >dubiti. Me korektigis vua artiklo ibe ube es skrib-eroro (vorto sequata '(= >...)' ). Ma la vorti qui sequesas da >, es questioni pri qui me deziras >savar ka vu konsentez pri mea propozo. > >Yen: > >Enigmala (= enigmatala) >enigmo (= enigmato) >oaso (= oaziso) > >Joshua > Ioshua >intersekas > intertranchas (segun Pesch, sekar = kirurgiala ago) >klamante decendo > asertante decendo (quankam me preferas: asertante >decendAR) >sekis > tranchis >sekita > tranchita; taliita >La Sangema > La Sangifema (ne existas verbo "sangar", do ne povas esar >sufixizita '-em') >shampunesas > shampunagesas (shampunesas = esas shampuno) >de-sekar > de-tranchar >atrakivo > atraktajo, atraktivajo >esamas > esamifas (esamo = substantivo) > >Me esperas balde savar pri vua opinioni / konsenti, > >Predanki, > >Saluti amikala, > >Hans St. >-- >NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). >- http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html > >Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: >- http://groups.msn.com/idisto >- http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland >- http://groups.msn.com/idohispania >- http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere > >- OMNA IDO-FORUMI >http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1719 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97581 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2005 12:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2005 12:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly07.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.217) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 12:51:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 754 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2005 12:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt02.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.194]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly07.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 12:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 12762 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2005 12:51:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.140]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt02.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 12:51:04 -0000 Message-ID: <005501c5434c$c1d27d60$8cc217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" References: Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:54:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] RE: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Hans e James, > interesanta anke por la Linguolistani, me opinionas: Yen mea komenti pri la maxim importanta punti. 1) > intersekas > intertranchas (segun Pesch, sekar = kirurgiala ago) > JC> Segun Dyer, inter/sek/ar tradukas angla "to intersect", la intencita > senco Anke segun Beaufront/Couturat. Me opinionas ke James es tote justa pri ca punto. 2) > La Sangema > La Sangifema (ne existas verbo "sangar", do ne povas esar > sufixizita '-em') > JC> Ka ni ne darfas uzar -em anke kun substantivi? Nu, on ne konkordas pri ca punto! Singla persono kun sua rezono. Pri -em Dyer dicas �joined especially to verbal roots� (Dicionario Ido-Angla, p. XII), kontre ke Beaufront dicas �soldesas a verbala radiki� (KGD, p. 145). Do la �especially� da Dyer ja enduktas nuanco... Andreas Juste skribis plu detaloze pri la temo (Progreso 306, p. 6-7): �Ni, l'Idisti, qui tante prizas praktikal logiko, ni devas tamen konfesar, ke ni disipis multa tempo por solvar olim falsa problemi. Plura yardeki ante nun pluri objecionis ya kontre la vorto 'ebriema' pretendante, ke la sufixo 'ema' darfas esar uzata nur kun verbo. E mem Louis de Beaufront semblis asertar lo en sua detaloza gramatiko. Ma il enduktabis ta vorto en la dika "Dictionnaire Fran�ais-Ido", quan il kompilis kun Couturat (pagino 314). En ta sama vortaro ni trovas plura simila kazi: exemple 'minuciema'. En la vortaro da Dyer, la maxim klar e preciza, ni povas lektar 'ironiema', 'teoriema'. E ta du verki, on savas lo, recevabis l'aprobo dil Idal Akademio. Nul dubito do es posibla: certe e sekure on darfas uzar la sufixo 'ema', e do ank 'emo', kun verbal radiki (segun Dyer: "especially") ma mem kun substantivi.� Me asentas la supera judiko da Juste. Me trovas nula impedivo teorial (o mem praktikal) kontre tala uzo di -em. Ebriema viro ya ne sempre es ebria, ed esus tre desfacila (por ne dicar neposibla) expresar la koncepto 'ebriema' sen rekursar a ta sufixo. Anke 'minuciema' e 'teoriema' es tote klara vorti. Tamen... Tamen la radiko 'sang-' es kelke diferanta. Ol ya expresas objekto, kozo plu "pure" kam 'ebri-', 'teori-' o 'minuci-'. Ol es plu "fizikal". Konseque, la derivuro 'sangema' ne semblas tam klara, tam transparanta, tam senambigua kam le antea. Quon do povus signifikar 'sangema'? Ol povus signifikar tam bone 'sangifema', segun la propozo da Hans (exemple: "ca puero es tre sangifema: lua vunduri apene cikatreskas") kam 'sang-avida' (exemple: "sang-avida korsaro"). To dependus del kuntexto. Or nia sufixi e prefixi, same kam la cetera linguo-elementi, devus produktar sempre vorti ne nur klara e quik komprenebla, ma anke analizebla aparte, sen rekurso a kuntexti. Konseque, la vorto 'sangifema', quankam teorie "legala", es evitinda, segun mea opiniono. Rezume, on ya darfas soldar 'em-' anke a radiki substantival, ma rezerveme, cirkonspekte. Pro to la �especialy� da Dyer es plene justifikebla. 3) > shampunesas > shampunagesas (shampunesas = esas shampuno) > JC> Segun Dyer, shampun/ar es verbo Yes, anke segun Pesch. Tamen on darfas questionar ka ta klasifiko es justa. Se on aceptus 'shampun-' kom verbal radiko, quale on povus expresar la koncepto 'liquido per qua on shampunas'? 'shampunajo' ne esus apta (ol signifikus exemple 'shampunata hararo'), anke ne 'shampunuro' (ol signifikus exemple 'shampunita hararo'), anke ne 'shampunilo' (ol esus utensilo, exemple la specala plastika botelo kontenanta tala liquido). Quale do? Ka per la vorto 'shampuno'? No, nam 'shampuno' povus esar nulo altra kam la ago shampunar (exemple: "pos l'unesma shampuno on devas itere shampunar, se on volas eliminar granda parto dil graso del hararo"). Quale do? Nur per la monstratra vorto 'shampun-liquido'. Or on savas ke l'Idisti ya uzas 'shampuno' por indikar la liquido (quale, exemple, Martignon en la lasta numero di 'Kuriero Internaciona'). Anke Dyer e Beaufront/Couturat sancionas ca uzo. E l'Idisti ne povus agar altre, nam li sentas ke 'shampun-liquido' es absolute nedigestebla. Imaginez televizional reklamo pri ta produkturi, se on mustus omnainstante uzar tala vorto: "Squameti? Ne plus! Ne faliez uzar nia specal shampun-liquido! Abasez la squameti! Per nia shampun-liquido, edc, edc..." Multe plu oportuna e praktikala es la sequanta derivo: shampuno (liquido) => shampunizar, shampunagar (verbo) Tala derivo sustenesas i.a. da AHI(P) ed es tote analoga kam: sapono => saponizar pomado => pomadizar unguento => unguentizar Altra problemoza kaso es 'locionar'. Segun la verbal klasifiko atribuita da Dyer e Pesch, on mustus same dicar 'locion-liquido' por tradukar AF lotion, I lozione e H loci�n (P lo��o), nam 'lociono' povus esar nulo altra kam la ago locionar. Pro to es plu praktikala ed oportuna dicar: lociono (liquido) => locionizar, locionagar Do me opinionas ke la klasifiko di 'shampun-' e 'locion-' che Dyer e Pesch es eroroza. Ol forsan konsequas de ke, en la tempo di nia pioniri, shampuni e locioni (la liquidi!) ne esis tam importanta e nekareebla kam nun. Altralatere li ne konsideris l'analogeso di 'sapono', 'pomado', 'unguento' ed altri, e tala neglijo es vera falio, segun mea judiko. Rezume, James es justa (nam il sequas l'oficala - quankam eroroza - instrukto da Dyer), ma Hans es mem plu justa (nam il sequas la komuna raciono e la reala uzo dal Idisti). 4) atraktivo > atraktajo, atraktivajo JC> Hike me sustenas mea solvo, kp. nutrivo James es tote justa pri ca punto. 5) > esamas > esamifas (esamo = substantivo) > JC> Segun me, eroro en Ido. esam- es juste verbala radiko, nam esam/ifar es > absurda. Kad abelaro vere > produktas esamo? Juste li _es_ la esamo. Me preferas esamas* kun > asterisko. Me ne konsentas. esamo es klare kozo, objekto, same kam turbo ed altra ensembli. Ol nule expresas ago o stando. Yes, abelaro produktas esamo. Li ya _es_ la esamo, pos ke li produkis ol e dum ke li restas kune, ma same kam li produktis ta esamo, li povas anke desfacar ol e produktar altra esami en altra loki. E cetere on povas metafore aplikar la vorto 'esamo' ad altra asembli. Ma esamo sempre restas kozo, objekto, segun mea judiko. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1720 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39944 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2005 20:19:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2005 20:19:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep19-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.20) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2005 20:19:24 -0000 Received: from azalia ([62.194.97.31]) by amsfep19-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.03.05 201-2131-111-107-20040910) with SMTP id <20050417201922.XXHL11100.amsfep19-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:19:22 +0200 Message-ID: <014301c5438a$58af52c0$1f61c23e@azalia> To: References: <1113758813.104.74399.m17@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:16:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: RE: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara James, Me pensas ke Gon�alo es justa ye omna punti, ka vu konsentas ke me sequas ilua konsili? Me dankas Gon�alo por lua afabla konsilemeso e sajeso. Danko, Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). - http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: - http://groups.msn.com/idisto - http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland - http://groups.msn.com/idohispania - http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere - OMNA IDO-FORUMI http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado Kara Hans e James, > interesanta anke por la Linguolistani, me opinionas: Yen mea komenti pri la maxim importanta punti. 1) > intersekas > intertranchas (segun Pesch, sekar = kirurgiala ago) > JC> Segun Dyer, inter/sek/ar tradukas angla "to intersect", la intencita > senco Anke segun Beaufront/Couturat. Me opinionas ke James es tote justa pri ca punto. 2) > La Sangema > La Sangifema (ne existas verbo "sangar", do ne povas esar > sufixizita '-em') > JC> Ka ni ne darfas uzar -em anke kun substantivi? Nu, on ne konkordas pri ca punto! Singla persono kun sua rezono. Pri -em Dyer dicas �joined especially to verbal roots� (Dicionario Ido-Angla, p. XII), kontre ke Beaufront dicas �soldesas a verbala radiki� (KGD, p. 145). Do la �especially� da Dyer ja enduktas nuanco... Andreas Juste skribis plu detaloze pri la temo (Progreso 306, p. 6-7): �Ni, l'Idisti, qui tante prizas praktikal logiko, ni devas tamen konfesar, ke ni disipis multa tempo por solvar olim falsa problemi. Plura yardeki ante nun pluri objecionis ya kontre la vorto 'ebriema' pretendante, ke la sufixo 'ema' darfas esar uzata nur kun verbo. E mem Louis de Beaufront semblis asertar lo en sua detaloza gramatiko. Ma il enduktabis ta vorto en la dika "Dictionnaire Fran�ais-Ido", quan il kompilis kun Couturat (pagino 314). En ta sama vortaro ni trovas plura simila kazi: exemple 'minuciema'. En la vortaro da Dyer, la maxim klar e preciza, ni povas lektar 'ironiema', 'teoriema'. E ta du verki, on savas lo, recevabis l'aprobo dil Idal Akademio. Nul dubito do es posibla: certe e sekure on darfas uzar la sufixo 'ema', e do ank 'emo', kun verbal radiki (segun Dyer: "especially") ma mem kun substantivi.� Me asentas la supera judiko da Juste. Me trovas nula impedivo teorial (o mem praktikal) kontre tala uzo di -em. Ebriema viro ya ne sempre es ebria, ed esus tre desfacila (por ne dicar neposibla) expresar la koncepto 'ebriema' sen rekursar a ta sufixo. Anke 'minuciema' e 'teoriema' es tote klara vorti. Tamen... Tamen la radiko 'sang-' es kelke diferanta. Ol ya expresas objekto, kozo plu "pure" kam 'ebri-', 'teori-' o 'minuci-'. Ol es plu "fizikal". Konseque, la derivuro 'sangema' ne semblas tam klara, tam transparanta, tam senambigua kam le antea. Quon do povus signifikar 'sangema'? Ol povus signifikar tam bone 'sangifema', segun la propozo da Hans (exemple: "ca puero es tre sangifema: lua vunduri apene cikatreskas") kam 'sang-avida' (exemple: "sang-avida korsaro"). To dependus del kuntexto. Or nia sufixi e prefixi, same kam la cetera linguo-elementi, devus produktar sempre vorti ne nur klara e quik komprenebla, ma anke analizebla aparte, sen rekurso a kuntexti. Konseque, la vorto 'sangifema', quankam teorie "legala", es evitinda, segun mea opiniono. Rezume, on ya darfas soldar 'em-' anke a radiki substantival, ma rezerveme, cirkonspekte. Pro to la �especialy� da Dyer es plene justifikebla. 3) > shampunesas > shampunagesas (shampunesas = esas shampuno) > JC> Segun Dyer, shampun/ar es verbo Yes, anke segun Pesch. Tamen on darfas questionar ka ta klasifiko es justa. Se on aceptus 'shampun-' kom verbal radiko, quale on povus expresar la koncepto 'liquido per qua on shampunas'? 'shampunajo' ne esus apta (ol signifikus exemple 'shampunata hararo'), anke ne 'shampunuro' (ol signifikus exemple 'shampunita hararo'), anke ne 'shampunilo' (ol esus utensilo, exemple la specala plastika botelo kontenanta tala liquido). Quale do? Ka per la vorto 'shampuno'? No, nam 'shampuno' povus esar nulo altra kam la ago shampunar (exemple: "pos l'unesma shampuno on devas itere shampunar, se on volas eliminar granda parto dil graso del hararo"). Quale do? Nur per la monstratra vorto 'shampun-liquido'. Or on savas ke l'Idisti ya uzas 'shampuno' por indikar la liquido (quale, exemple, Martignon en la lasta numero di 'Kuriero Internaciona'). Anke Dyer e Beaufront/Couturat sancionas ca uzo. E l'Idisti ne povus agar altre, nam li sentas ke 'shampun-liquido' es absolute nedigestebla. Imaginez televizional reklamo pri ta produkturi, se on mustus omnainstante uzar tala vorto: "Squameti? Ne plus! Ne faliez uzar nia specal shampun-liquido! Abasez la squameti! Per nia shampun-liquido, edc, edc..." Multe plu oportuna e praktikala es la sequanta derivo: shampuno (liquido) => shampunizar, shampunagar (verbo) Tala derivo sustenesas i.a. da AHI(P) ed es tote analoga kam: sapono => saponizar pomado => pomadizar unguento => unguentizar Altra problemoza kaso es 'locionar'. Segun la verbal klasifiko atribuita da Dyer e Pesch, on mustus same dicar 'locion-liquido' por tradukar AF lotion, I lozione e H loci�n (P lo��o), nam 'lociono' povus esar nulo altra kam la ago locionar. Pro to es plu praktikala ed oportuna dicar: lociono (liquido) => locionizar, locionagar Do me opinionas ke la klasifiko di 'shampun-' e 'locion-' che Dyer e Pesch es eroroza. Ol forsan konsequas de ke, en la tempo di nia pioniri, shampuni e locioni (la liquidi!) ne esis tam importanta e nekareebla kam nun. Altralatere li ne konsideris l'analogeso di 'sapono', 'pomado', 'unguento' ed altri, e tala neglijo es vera falio, segun mea judiko. Rezume, James es justa (nam il sequas l'oficala - quankam eroroza - instrukto da Dyer), ma Hans es mem plu justa (nam il sequas la komuna raciono e la reala uzo dal Idisti). 4) atraktivo > atraktajo, atraktivajo JC> Hike me sustenas mea solvo, kp. nutrivo James es tote justa pri ca punto. 5) > esamas > esamifas (esamo = substantivo) > JC> Segun me, eroro en Ido. esam- es juste verbala radiko, nam esam/ifar es > absurda. Kad abelaro vere > produktas esamo? Juste li _es_ la esamo. Me preferas esamas* kun > asterisko. Me ne konsentas. esamo es klare kozo, objekto, same kam turbo ed altra ensembli. Ol nule expresas ago o stando. Yes, abelaro produktas esamo. Li ya _es_ la esamo, pos ke li produkis ol e dum ke li restas kune, ma same kam li produktis ta esamo, li povas anke desfacar ol e produktar altra esami en altra loki. E cetere on povas metafore aplikar la vorto 'esamo' ad altra asembli. Ma esamo sempre restas kozo, objekto, segun mea judiko. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1721 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42968 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2005 19:10:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2005 19:10:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.56) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2005 19:10:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 97408 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Apr 2005 19:10:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20050418191040.97406.qmail@web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.197] by web26606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:10:39 CEST Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:10:39 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] problemi pri CIRKUM, POS, PRO, SUPER e TRANS ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Jacques! Segun me kredas (e segun la cetera tradukuri en la lingui nacional)... Ido: PRO mustus esar PRO KE Ido: TRANS mustus esar TRA Voluntez ank atencar pri posibla erori che l' cetera helpo-lingui, adminime relate ta du vorti. Po l' sama preco, yen plusa ed specal informajeto: Ido: VU mustus esar VI, nam VI es ya la pluralo. Me esperas kelke helpir tu. Adavane, Jacques! P A R T A K A --- jacquesdehe skribis: --------------------------------- ido: CIRKUM [de 92: um] [en 65: around (rank: 534)] [fr 63: autour] [it 60: intorno] [es 40: alrededor] [pl 39: okolo] [nl 21: rondum] [ro 20: in jurul] [hu 14: koere] [el 12: gyro] [pt 11: em volta] [cs 10,5: okolo; kolem] [ca 9: entorn] [gl 4: arredor] [eu 1,1: barano] [ido: cirkum] [eo: cxirkaw] [ia: circum] [lfn: sirka] [nov: sirk] (en construction) * ido: POS [de 92: nach] [en 65: after] [fr 63: apres] [it 60: dopo] [es 40: despues de] [pl 39: po; za] [nl 21: na; naar] [ro 20: dupa] [hu 14: utan; utana] [pt 11: depois de] [cs 10,5: po] [ca 9: despres de] [da 5: efter] [sk 5: za] [gl 4: despois] [lv 2: pec] [sl 1,9: za] [eu 1,1: gero; oste] [eo: post] [ia: post] [lfn: pos] [nov: after] (en construction) * ido: PRO [de 92: weil] [en 65: because (rank: 106)] [fr 63: parce que] [it 60: perche] [es 40: porque] [pl 39: bo; poniewaz] [nl 21: omdat] [ro 20: pentru ca] [hu 14: mert] [el 12: epeidi; giati; dioti] [pt 11: porque] [cs 10,5: protoze] [ca 9: perque] [fi 5: koska] [eo: pro] [ia: perque; proque] [lfn: per ce] [nov: pro] (en construction) * ido: SUPER [de 92: ueber] [en 65: above] [fr 63: au-dessus de] [it 60: sopra] [es 40: arriba de; sobre; encima de] [pl 39: ponad] [nl 21: boven] [ro 20: deasupra] [pt 11: acima; por cima] [cs 10,5: nad] [ca 9: damunt] [sv 9: oever] [da 5: ovenover; over] [hr 4,8: iznad] [ru 1,7: nad] [eu 1,1: gainean] [ma 0,4: fuq] [eo: super] [ia: supra] [lfn: supra] [nov: super] (en construction) * ido: TRANS [de 92: quer ueber] [en 65: through (rank: 116); across (rank: 413)] [fr 63: a travers] [it 60: attraverso] [es 40: a traves de] [pl 39: poprzez] [nl 21: overheen] [ro 20: prin] [pt 11: atraves de] [cs 10,5: pres] [bg 9: chrez] [ca 9: a traves] [sv 9: genom] [da 5: over] [sk 5: cez] [gl 4: a traves de] [ga 3: tri] [lv 2: cauri] [et 1: laebi] [eo: trans] [ia: a traverso de] [lfn: tra] [nov: tra; trans] (en construction) * (La traduki esas adiacritika*) * Kordiale, Jacques Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!: �250 MB GRATIS! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1722 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38204 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2005 17:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2005 17:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2005 17:38:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:38:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.210 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:38:06 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <014301c5438a$58af52c0$1f61c23e@azalia> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:38:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2005 17:38:06.0383 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B94C3F0:01C54506] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: RE: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Hans Yen mea komenti pri la respondi da Goncalo Neves: 2) >La Sangema > La Sangifema (ne existas verbo "sangar", do ne povas esar >sufixizita '-em') >JC> Ka ni ne darfas uzar -em anke kun substantivi? [...] Rezume, on ya darfas soldar 'em-' anke a radiki substantival, ma rezerveme, cirkonspekte. Pro to la �especialy� da Dyer es plene justifikebla. JC> Me opinionas ke hike on mustas uzar sang/ema, nam sang/if/ema ne havas la justa senco. sang/if/ema es ta qua amas sangifar - ne ta qua amas ke altri sangifas. 3) >shampunesas > shampunagesas (shampunesas = esas shampuno) >JC> Segun Dyer, shampun/ar es verbo [...] shampuno (liquido) => shampunizar, shampunagar (verbo) Tala derivo sustenesas i.a. da AHI(P) ed es tote analoga kam: sapono => saponizar pomado => pomadizar unguento => unguentizar JC> Me preferas shampun/o e shampun/izar (plu bona kam /agar) 5) >esamas > esamifas (esamo = substantivo) >JC> Segun me, eroro en Ido. esam- es juste verbala radiko, nam esam/ifar es >absurda. Kad abelaro vere >produktas esamo? Juste li _es_ la esamo. Me preferas esamas* kun >asterisko. Me ne konsentas. esamo es klare kozo, objekto, same kam turbo ed altra ensembli. Ol nule expresas ago o stando. Yes, abelaro produktas esamo. Li ya _es_ la esamo, pos ke li produkis ol e dum ke li restas kune, ma same kam li produktis ta esamo, li povas anke desfacar ol e produktar altra esami en altra loki. E cetere on povas metafore aplikar la vorto 'esamo' ad altra asembli. Ma esamo sempre restas kozo, objekto, segun mea judiko. JC> Me ankore objecionas kontre esam/ifar. Segun me esam- es stando/ago. Simile turbo es stando/ago - pro quo ne verbo turb/ar "formacar turbo"? "La homi turbis en la placo til noktesko." "La formiki esamis cirkum la falinta pomo." Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "H. Stuifbergen" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [linguo] Re: RE: "Marrakech" >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:16:31 +0200 > > >Kara James, > >Me pensas ke Gon�alo es justa ye omna punti, ka vu konsentas ke me sequas >ilua konsili? Me dankas Gon�alo por lua afabla konsilemeso e sajeso. > >Danko, > >Saluti amikala, > >Hans St. >-- >NOVA LIBRO: "STONO DI HELPO", novelo por 5 euro (inkluzante afrankuro). >- http://www.angelfire.com/id/Avance/TiaListo1.html > >Alternativi por Yahoo-grupi: >- http://groups.msn.com/idisto >- http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland >- http://groups.msn.com/idohispania >- http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere > >- OMNA IDO-FORUMI >http://members.tripod.com/~avancigado > >Kara Hans e James, > > > interesanta anke por la Linguolistani, me opinionas: > >Yen mea komenti pri la maxim importanta punti. > >1) > > intersekas > intertranchas (segun Pesch, sekar = kirurgiala ago) > > JC> Segun Dyer, inter/sek/ar tradukas angla "to intersect", la intencita > > senco > >Anke segun Beaufront/Couturat. Me opinionas ke James es tote justa pri ca >punto. > >2) > > La Sangema > La Sangifema (ne existas verbo "sangar", do ne povas esar > > sufixizita '-em') > > JC> Ka ni ne darfas uzar -em anke kun substantivi? > >Nu, on ne konkordas pri ca punto! Singla persono kun sua rezono. Pri -em >Dyer dicas �joined especially to verbal roots� (Dicionario Ido-Angla, p. >XII), kontre ke Beaufront dicas �soldesas a verbala radiki� (KGD, p. 145). >Do la �especially� da Dyer ja enduktas nuanco... Andreas Juste skribis plu >detaloze pri la temo (Progreso 306, p. 6-7): > >�Ni, l'Idisti, qui tante prizas praktikal logiko, ni devas tamen konfesar, >ke ni disipis multa tempo por solvar olim falsa problemi. >Plura yardeki ante nun pluri objecionis ya kontre la vorto 'ebriema' >pretendante, ke la sufixo 'ema' darfas esar uzata nur kun verbo. E mem >Louis >de Beaufront semblis asertar lo en sua detaloza gramatiko. Ma il enduktabis >ta vorto en la dika "Dictionnaire Fran�ais-Ido", quan il kompilis kun >Couturat (pagino 314). En ta sama vortaro ni trovas plura simila kazi: >exemple 'minuciema'. En la vortaro da Dyer, la maxim klar e preciza, ni >povas lektar 'ironiema', 'teoriema'. E ta du verki, on savas lo, recevabis >l'aprobo dil Idal Akademio. Nul dubito do es posibla: certe e sekure on >darfas uzar la sufixo 'ema', e do ank 'emo', kun verbal radiki (segun Dyer: >"especially") ma mem kun substantivi.� > >Me asentas la supera judiko da Juste. Me trovas nula impedivo teorial (o >mem >praktikal) kontre tala uzo di -em. Ebriema viro ya ne sempre es ebria, ed >esus tre desfacila (por ne dicar neposibla) expresar la koncepto 'ebriema' >sen rekursar a ta sufixo. Anke 'minuciema' e 'teoriema' es tote klara >vorti. >Tamen... > >Tamen la radiko 'sang-' es kelke diferanta. Ol ya expresas objekto, kozo >plu >"pure" kam 'ebri-', 'teori-' o 'minuci-'. Ol es plu "fizikal". Konseque, la >derivuro 'sangema' ne semblas tam klara, tam transparanta, tam senambigua >kam le antea. Quon do povus signifikar 'sangema'? Ol povus signifikar tam >bone 'sangifema', segun la propozo da Hans (exemple: "ca puero es tre >sangifema: lua vunduri apene cikatreskas") kam 'sang-avida' (exemple: >"sang-avida korsaro"). To dependus del kuntexto. Or nia sufixi e prefixi, >same kam la cetera linguo-elementi, devus produktar sempre vorti ne nur >klara e quik komprenebla, ma anke analizebla aparte, sen rekurso a >kuntexti. >Konseque, la vorto 'sangifema', quankam teorie "legala", es evitinda, segun >mea opiniono. > >Rezume, on ya darfas soldar 'em-' anke a radiki substantival, ma rezerveme, >cirkonspekte. Pro to la �especialy� da Dyer es plene justifikebla. > >3) > > shampunesas > shampunagesas (shampunesas = esas shampuno) > > JC> Segun Dyer, shampun/ar es verbo > >Yes, anke segun Pesch. Tamen on darfas questionar ka ta klasifiko es justa. > >Se on aceptus 'shampun-' kom verbal radiko, quale on povus expresar la >koncepto 'liquido per qua on shampunas'? 'shampunajo' ne esus apta (ol >signifikus exemple 'shampunata hararo'), anke ne 'shampunuro' (ol >signifikus >exemple 'shampunita hararo'), anke ne 'shampunilo' (ol esus utensilo, >exemple la specala plastika botelo kontenanta tala liquido). Quale do? Ka >per >la vorto 'shampuno'? No, nam 'shampuno' povus esar nulo altra kam la ago >shampunar (exemple: "pos l'unesma shampuno on devas itere shampunar, se on >volas eliminar granda parto dil graso del hararo"). Quale do? Nur per la >monstratra vorto 'shampun-liquido'. Or on savas ke l'Idisti ya uzas >'shampuno' por indikar la liquido (quale, exemple, Martignon en la lasta >numero di 'Kuriero Internaciona'). Anke Dyer e Beaufront/Couturat sancionas >ca uzo. E l'Idisti ne povus agar altre, nam li sentas ke 'shampun-liquido' >es >absolute nedigestebla. Imaginez televizional reklamo pri ta produkturi, se >on mustus omnainstante uzar tala vorto: "Squameti? Ne plus! Ne faliez uzar >nia specal shampun-liquido! Abasez la squameti! Per nia shampun-liquido, >edc, edc..." > >Multe plu oportuna e praktikala es la sequanta derivo: > >shampuno (liquido) => shampunizar, shampunagar (verbo) > >Tala derivo sustenesas i.a. da AHI(P) ed es tote analoga kam: > >sapono => saponizar >pomado => pomadizar >unguento => unguentizar > >Altra problemoza kaso es 'locionar'. Segun la verbal klasifiko atribuita da >Dyer e Pesch, on mustus same dicar 'locion-liquido' por tradukar AF lotion, >I lozione e H loci�n (P lo��o), nam 'lociono' povus esar nulo altra kam la >ago locionar. > >Pro to es plu praktikala ed oportuna dicar: > >lociono (liquido) => locionizar, locionagar > >Do me opinionas ke la klasifiko di 'shampun-' e 'locion-' che Dyer e Pesch >es eroroza. Ol forsan konsequas de ke, en la tempo di nia pioniri, shampuni >e locioni (la liquidi!) ne esis tam importanta e nekareebla kam nun. >Altralatere li ne konsideris l'analogeso di 'sapono', 'pomado', 'unguento' >ed altri, e tala neglijo es vera falio, segun mea judiko. > >Rezume, James es justa (nam il sequas l'oficala - quankam eroroza - >instrukto da Dyer), ma Hans es mem plu justa (nam il sequas la komuna >raciono e la reala uzo dal Idisti). > >4) >atraktivo > atraktajo, atraktivajo >JC> Hike me sustenas mea solvo, kp. nutrivo > >James es tote justa pri ca punto. > >5) > > esamas > esamifas (esamo = substantivo) > > JC> Segun me, eroro en Ido. esam- es juste verbala radiko, nam esam/ifar >es > > absurda. Kad abelaro vere > > produktas esamo? Juste li _es_ la esamo. Me preferas esamas* kun > > asterisko. > >Me ne konsentas. esamo es klare kozo, objekto, same kam turbo ed altra >ensembli. Ol nule expresas ago o stando. Yes, abelaro produktas esamo. Li >ya >_es_ la esamo, pos ke li produkis ol e dum ke li restas kune, ma same kam >li >produktis ta esamo, li povas anke desfacar ol e produktar altra esami en >altra loki. E cetere on povas metafore aplikar la vorto 'esamo' ad altra >asembli. Ma esamo sempre restas kozo, objekto, segun mea judiko. > >Kordiale, > >Gon�alo Neves > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1723 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2803 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2005 11:08:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2005 11:08:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly05.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.215) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 11:08:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 7035 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2005 11:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.193]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 11:08:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 28216 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2005 11:08:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.180.97]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 11:08:29 -0000 Message-ID: <005701c54599$ebc50e40$61b417c3@oemcomputer> To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:11:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: RE: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Hans, Yen plusa komenti pos la respondo da James: > JC> Me opinionas ke hike on mustas uzar sang/ema, nam sang/if/ema ne havas > la justa senco. sang/if/ema es ta qua amas sangifar - ne ta qua amas ke > altri sangifas. Ka ne esus plu bona dicar 'sang-avida'? > JC> Me preferas shampun/o e shampun/izar (plu bona kam /agar) James es justa: 'shampunizar' es preferinda. > JC> Me ankore objecionas kontre esam/ifar. Segun me esam- es stando/ago. > Simile > turbo es stando/ago - pro quo ne verbo turb/ar "formacar turbo"? > "La homi turbis en la placo til noktesko." > "La formiki esamis cirkum la falinta pomo." Se 'esamo' esus stando/ago, anke 'abelaro' (qua signifikas lo sama) esus 'stando/ago', e konseque on darfus dicar 'abelarar'... Se 'turbo' esus stando/ago, anke 'hom-amaso' esus stando/ago, e konseque on darfus dicar 'ham-amasar'... Por dicar 'formacar esamo' e 'formacar turbo' ni havas en Ido la verbi 'esameskar' (= divenar esamo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas esamo) e 'turbeskar' (= divenar turbo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas turbo): "La homi turbeskis en la placo til noktesko" "La formiki esameskis cirkum la falinta pomo" Se on volus emfazar ne la formaco ma la stando qua rezultas de ol, on povus dicar: "La homi turbe vartis en la placo til noktesko" "La formiki esame cirkondis la falinta pomo" Do ulsence me asentas la opiniono di James: 'esamifar' e 'turbifar' es absurda ed evitinda. Tamen de ico ne konsequas ke 'esamo' e 'turbo' es agi/standi. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1724 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63915 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2005 21:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2005 21:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep17-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.15) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2005 21:17:00 -0000 Received: from azalia ([62.194.97.31]) by amsfep17-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050420211659.GFVT3290.amsfep17-int.chello.nl@azalia> for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:16:59 +0200 Message-ID: <00c201c545ed$e6b78640$1f61c23e@azalia> To: References: <1114030104.127.99975.m17@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:14:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "H. Stuifbergen" Subject: Re: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Kara James e Gon�alo, Bone, me prizas la konsilo di Gon�alo pri "sang-avida", quo expresas maxim klare l' ideo. Cetere, me ne savis ke on darfis sufixizar substantivi per la sufixo -em-. Do, la sama kam kun la sufixo -er-, qua anke darfas esar uzata dop substantivo. Me devas konfesar ke me asentas to quon James deziras expresar, iganta difero inter 'sangema' e 'sangifema'. Tamen, me pensas ke plu klara esas ta-kaze 'sangifigema', same kam on dicus 'urinifigas'. "shampuno" mea-opinione klare es substantivo (kozo), e konseque ne povas esar verbigata (direte). Gon�alo donis tre klara exemplo pri to. Do, 'shampunizar' es bona. Same pri 'esamo' (e 'turbo'). Ol es substantivo, certe ne stando od ago. Anke hike me deziras uzar l' exempli donita da Gon�alo. Do, James, ka vu konsentas pri 'sang-avida' e 'esameskas'? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Kara Hans, Yen plusa komenti pos la respondo da James: > JC> Me opinionas ke hike on mustas uzar sang/ema, nam sang/if/ema ne havas > la justa senco. sang/if/ema es ta qua amas sangifar - ne ta qua amas ke > altri sangifas. Ka ne esus plu bona dicar 'sang-avida'? > JC> Me preferas shampun/o e shampun/izar (plu bona kam /agar) James es justa: 'shampunizar' es preferinda. > JC> Me ankore objecionas kontre esam/ifar. Segun me esam- es stando/ago. > Simile > turbo es stando/ago - pro quo ne verbo turb/ar "formacar turbo"? > "La homi turbis en la placo til noktesko." > "La formiki esamis cirkum la falinta pomo." Se 'esamo' esus stando/ago, anke 'abelaro' (qua signifikas lo sama) esus 'stando/ago', e konseque on darfus dicar 'abelarar'... Se 'turbo' esus stando/ago, anke 'hom-amaso' esus stando/ago, e konseque on darfus dicar 'ham-amasar'... Por dicar 'formacar esamo' e 'formacar turbo' ni havas en Ido la verbi 'esameskar' (= divenar esamo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas esamo) e 'turbeskar' (= divenar turbo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas turbo): "La homi turbeskis en la placo til noktesko" "La formiki esameskis cirkum la falinta pomo" Se on volus emfazar ne la formaco ma la stando qua rezultas de ol, on povus dicar: "La homi turbe vartis en la placo til noktesko" "La formiki esame cirkondis la falinta pomo" Do ulsence me asentas la opiniono di James: 'esamifar' e 'turbifar' es absurda ed evitinda. Tamen de ico ne konsequas ke 'esamo' e 'turbo' es agi/standi. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1725 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77920 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2005 12:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2005 12:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.26) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2005 12:38:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:37:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:37:50 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <00c201c545ed$e6b78640$1f61c23e@azalia> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:37:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Apr 2005 12:37:51.0014 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE691C60:01C5466E] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Hans Certe me preferas sang-avida kam la tro plumpa sang/if/ig/ema. Tamen me ne vidas problemo pri sang/ema. La sufixo -esk expresas la komenco di ago, do ne es apta cakaze. Ma on povus uzar -es, do: esam/esas, turb/esas. La homi turbesis en la placo (la homi esis (formacis) turbo) edc. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "H. Stuifbergen" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [linguo] Re: "Marrakech" >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:14:12 +0200 > > >Kara James e Gon�alo, > >Bone, me prizas la konsilo di Gon�alo pri "sang-avida", quo expresas maxim >klare l' ideo. Cetere, me ne savis ke on darfis sufixizar substantivi per >la >sufixo -em-. Do, la sama kam kun la sufixo -er-, qua anke darfas esar uzata >dop substantivo. > >Me devas konfesar ke me asentas to quon James deziras expresar, iganta >difero inter 'sangema' e 'sangifema'. Tamen, me pensas ke plu klara esas >ta-kaze 'sangifigema', same kam on dicus 'urinifigas'. > >"shampuno" mea-opinione klare es substantivo (kozo), e konseque ne povas >esar verbigata (direte). Gon�alo donis tre klara exemplo pri to. Do, >'shampunizar' es bona. > >Same pri 'esamo' (e 'turbo'). Ol es substantivo, certe ne stando od ago. >Anke hike me deziras uzar l' exempli donita da Gon�alo. > >Do, James, ka vu konsentas pri 'sang-avida' e 'esameskas'? > >Saluti amikala, > >Hans St. >-- > > >Kara Hans, > >Yen plusa komenti pos la respondo da James: > > > JC> Me opinionas ke hike on mustas uzar sang/ema, nam sang/if/ema ne >havas > > la justa senco. sang/if/ema es ta qua amas sangifar - ne ta qua amas ke > > altri sangifas. > >Ka ne esus plu bona dicar 'sang-avida'? > > > JC> Me preferas shampun/o e shampun/izar (plu bona kam /agar) > >James es justa: 'shampunizar' es preferinda. > > > JC> Me ankore objecionas kontre esam/ifar. Segun me esam- es >stando/ago. > > Simile > > turbo es stando/ago - pro quo ne verbo turb/ar "formacar turbo"? > > "La homi turbis en la placo til noktesko." > > "La formiki esamis cirkum la falinta pomo." > >Se 'esamo' esus stando/ago, anke 'abelaro' (qua signifikas lo sama) esus >'stando/ago', e konseque on darfus dicar 'abelarar'... Se 'turbo' esus >stando/ago, anke 'hom-amaso' esus stando/ago, e konseque on darfus dicar >'ham-amasar'... > >Por dicar 'formacar esamo' e 'formacar turbo' ni havas en Ido la verbi >'esameskar' (= divenar esamo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas esamo) e >'turbeskar' (= divenar turbo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas turbo): > >"La homi turbeskis en la placo til noktesko" >"La formiki esameskis cirkum la falinta pomo" > >Se on volus emfazar ne la formaco ma la stando qua rezultas de ol, on povus >dicar: > >"La homi turbe vartis en la placo til noktesko" >"La formiki esame cirkondis la falinta pomo" > >Do ulsence me asentas la opiniono di James: 'esamifar' e 'turbifar' es >absurda ed evitinda. Tamen de ico ne konsequas ke 'esamo' e 'turbo' es >agi/standi. > >Kordiale, > >Gon�alo Neves > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1726 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85811 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2005 16:43:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2005 16:43:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.28) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2005 16:43:53 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:43:53 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.210 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:43:53 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <00c201c545ed$e6b78640$1f61c23e@azalia> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:43:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2005 16:43:53.0181 (UTC) FILETIME=[2169C8D0:01C54A7F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Re: "Marrakech" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Hans Me esperas ke per la diversa respondi che Linguolisto, vu nun havas to quon vu bezonas por korektigar e fine editar mea artiklo 'Marrakech'. Me dankas ti qui respondis pri la linguala punti, aparte Goncalo Neves pro lua valoroza helpo. Saluti Marokana Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "H. Stuifbergen" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [linguo] Re: "Marrakech" >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:14:12 +0200 > > >Kara James e Gon�alo, > >Bone, me prizas la konsilo di Gon�alo pri "sang-avida", quo expresas maxim >klare l' ideo. Cetere, me ne savis ke on darfis sufixizar substantivi per >la >sufixo -em-. Do, la sama kam kun la sufixo -er-, qua anke darfas esar uzata >dop substantivo. > >Me devas konfesar ke me asentas to quon James deziras expresar, iganta >difero inter 'sangema' e 'sangifema'. Tamen, me pensas ke plu klara esas >ta-kaze 'sangifigema', same kam on dicus 'urinifigas'. > >"shampuno" mea-opinione klare es substantivo (kozo), e konseque ne povas >esar verbigata (direte). Gon�alo donis tre klara exemplo pri to. Do, >'shampunizar' es bona. > >Same pri 'esamo' (e 'turbo'). Ol es substantivo, certe ne stando od ago. >Anke hike me deziras uzar l' exempli donita da Gon�alo. > >Do, James, ka vu konsentas pri 'sang-avida' e 'esameskas'? > >Saluti amikala, > >Hans St. >-- > > >Kara Hans, > >Yen plusa komenti pos la respondo da James: > > > JC> Me opinionas ke hike on mustas uzar sang/ema, nam sang/if/ema ne >havas > > la justa senco. sang/if/ema es ta qua amas sangifar - ne ta qua amas ke > > altri sangifas. > >Ka ne esus plu bona dicar 'sang-avida'? > > > JC> Me preferas shampun/o e shampun/izar (plu bona kam /agar) > >James es justa: 'shampunizar' es preferinda. > > > JC> Me ankore objecionas kontre esam/ifar. Segun me esam- es >stando/ago. > > Simile > > turbo es stando/ago - pro quo ne verbo turb/ar "formacar turbo"? > > "La homi turbis en la placo til noktesko." > > "La formiki esamis cirkum la falinta pomo." > >Se 'esamo' esus stando/ago, anke 'abelaro' (qua signifikas lo sama) esus >'stando/ago', e konseque on darfus dicar 'abelarar'... Se 'turbo' esus >stando/ago, anke 'hom-amaso' esus stando/ago, e konseque on darfus dicar >'ham-amasar'... > >Por dicar 'formacar esamo' e 'formacar turbo' ni havas en Ido la verbi >'esameskar' (= divenar esamo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas esamo) e >'turbeskar' (= divenar turbo = divenar la kozo quan on nomas turbo): > >"La homi turbeskis en la placo til noktesko" >"La formiki esameskis cirkum la falinta pomo" > >Se on volus emfazar ne la formaco ma la stando qua rezultas de ol, on povus >dicar: > >"La homi turbe vartis en la placo til noktesko" >"La formiki esame cirkondis la falinta pomo" > >Do ulsence me asentas la opiniono di James: 'esamifar' e 'turbifar' es >absurda ed evitinda. Tamen de ico ne konsequas ke 'esamo' e 'turbo' es >agi/standi. > >Kordiale, > >Gon�alo Neves > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1727 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58956 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2005 09:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2005 09:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2005 09:49:49 -0000 Received: from DSL01.212.114.231.71.NEFkom.net[212.114.231.71] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1DQjAr18pZ-0006o9; Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:49:41 +0200 Message-ID: <002601c54b0e$6b8cc4a0$fd54fea9@privatdesktop> To: "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Idostab" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:48:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Ofro da la Germana ido-Societo a novkomencanti e nova membri di nia interreta Ido-forumi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara amiki! Me deziras atencigar vi, ke la Germana Ido-Societo havas speca= la ofro por novkomencanti. Ni volunte transsendas a novkomencanti ed a nova= membri di "Idolisto" gratuita specimeno di Ido-revui. Qua deziras recevar = ca specimeno voluntez sendar lua deziro kun lua postala adreso a la ret-pos= t-adreso dil Germana Ido-Societo info@idolinguo.de o per postala letro a G= ermana Ido-Societo Thueringer Strasse 03 DE-37284 Waldkappel/Burghofen Germ= ania o per faxo a la sequanta fax-numero +4956561812 . Voluntez ne hezit= ar skribar a ni por demandar vua gratuita specimeno di Ido-revui!! Kun la = maxim kordiala ed amikala saluti! Frank Kasper prezidanto dil Germana Ido-= Societo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1728 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11296 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2005 03:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2005 03:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.187) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2005 03:11:00 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050429031056.NRDW11967.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:10:56 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.188] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050429031056.VMNR4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.188]> for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:10:56 +1200 To: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:10:56 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050429031056.VMNR4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.188]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara James e samideani, Me remarkas vua komenti pri =93-abas=94 ed =93-oro= =94. (1) Olim me opinionas ke la uzado di *komputori e simila moyeno en la = teknolgiala mondo forsan meritus nova sufixo. =93-oro=94. Nun me trovas ke = preske omna mashini, aparati e mem implementi kontenas mikra *komputoro por= regular la funcio. Tamen, multa vorti en diversa lingui signifikas =93moy= eno facar=94 e havas finalo di A: =93-er=94 od =93or=94, G: =93-er=94, F:= =93-eur=94, H: =93-or=94, e konseque Ido povas uzar =93-oro=94. (La sufix= o =93-ero=94 ja existas en Ido). Exemple: A: computer, Ido: *komputoro A:= printer, Ido: *imprimoro A: router, Ido: *voyoro A: scanner, Ido: *skan= oro A: adder, Ido: *adicionoro A: divider, Ido: *dividoro, edc. La sufix= o =93-ilo=94 restas quale generala sufixo o por plu antiquatra o manuala i= mplementi e mashini, p.e. *imprimoro =3D moderna *komputorala mashino qua i= mprimas. =93Imprimilo=94 =3D la plu antiqua =93imprim-mashino=94. (2) La= plu longa =93-atoro=94 ja existas en vorti quale =93generatoro=94 ma forsa= n ne es necesa havar specala sufixo. (3) La komento pri =93-abas=94 semblas= justa. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2005/03/27 Sun AM 04:15:41 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogro= ups.com > Subject: [linguo] -oro ed -abas > > [Non-text portions of th= is message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1729 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78553 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2005 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2005 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.49) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2005 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:36:10 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.210 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:36:10 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20050429031056.VMNR4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.188]> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:36:10 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2005 17:36:10.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE8BF770:01C54CE1] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Richard Pri sufixo -oro*, me opinionas ke ni devas konsiderar tre sorgoze la neceseso di tala sufixo ante adoptar ol. Lo maxim facila esus erorar per adoptar sufixo nenecesa, o kun nejusta formo, o nejusta senco. Exemple, en Ido ni havas generator/o, ma nula verbo gener/ar* o generat/ar*. Se ni adoptus sufixo -oro, ni mustus skribar produkt/oro* - ka vere preferinda? Me opinionas ke ni bezonas ampla studio pri la vorti qui ja existas en Ido. Generale me nule es konvinkita ke ni bezonas -oro*, nek ke ol produktus bona formi. Pluse, me ne es konvinkita ke ni povus distingar klare inter la senci di -oro ed -ilo. Kad imprim/ilo subite esus nekorekta? Mea provizora konsilo es ke ni adoptez kelka substantivi quale komputor/o*, printor/o*, apud existanta generator/o, qui esus egale valida kam derivuri per -ilo, exemple: *printor/o = imprim/ilo *komputor/o = kalkul/ilo (cirkume) generator/o = produkt/ilo (cirkume) ec. Ma me preferus lektar ampla studiuro ante fine decidar. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:10:56 +1200 > >Kara James e samideani, >Me remarkas vua komenti pri �-abas� ed �-oro�. >(1) Olim me opinionas ke la uzado di *komputori e simila moyeno en la >teknolgiala mondo forsan meritus nova sufixo. �-oro�. Nun me trovas ke >preske omna mashini, aparati e mem implementi kontenas mikra *komputoro por >regular la funcio. Tamen, multa vorti en diversa lingui signifikas �moyeno >facar� e havas finalo di A: �-er� od �or�, G: �-er�, F: �-eur�, H: �-or�, > e konseque Ido povas uzar �-oro�. (La sufixo �-ero� ja existas en Ido). >Exemple: >A: computer, Ido: *komputoro >A: printer, Ido: *imprimoro >A: router, Ido: *voyoro >A: scanner, Ido: *skanoro >A: adder, Ido: *adicionoro >A: divider, Ido: *dividoro, edc. >La sufixo �-ilo� restas quale generala sufixo o por plu antiquatra o >manuala implementi e mashini, p.e. *imprimoro = moderna *komputorala >mashino qua imprimas. > �Imprimilo� = la plu antiqua �imprim-mashino�. >(2) La plu longa �-atoro� ja existas en vorti quale �generatoro� ma forsan >ne es necesa havar specala sufixo. >(3) La komento pri �-abas� semblas justa. >Amikale, Richard S. > > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > Date: 2005/03/27 Sun AM 04:15:41 GMT+12:00 > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [linguo] -oro ed -abas > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1730 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54575 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2005 14:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2005 14:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.37) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2005 14:38:52 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:38:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:38:51 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:38:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2005 14:38:51.0450 (UTC) FILETIME=[53AF79A0:01C54D92] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Auxiliara verbi en Ido (e NE) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Baggie, kar amiki Penvaloras studiar la auxiliara verbi di Ido, e la efiko dil negativa partikulo NE en diferanta pozicioni en la frazo. Apud la 'simpla' auxiliara verbi pov/ar e must/ar en Ido, ni havas darf/ar e dev/ar qui expresas nuanci di senco. Segun mea kompreno, must/ar signifikas obligo o neceseso o koakteso agar ulo. Exemple: Me mustas laborar por pagesar Insertar NE modifikas la senco segun la poziciono en la frazo: Me mustas NE laborar (pro mala saneso) Me NE mustas laborar (pro ke me ganis la loterio e nun es milioniero) Kontraste dev/ar signifikas etikala responso: Me devas laborar (por kontributar a la socio) Me devas NE laborar (nam me nur plurichigos le ja richa) Me NE devas laborar (nam me nule sucias pri la socio) pov/ar signifikas fizikala od intelektala kapableso: Me povas laborar (nam me es fizikale forta) Me povas NE laborar (nam me posedas sofao e televiziono) Me NE povas laborar (nam me es febla o malada) darf/ar signifikas permiso da ula autoritato, o yuro: Me darfas laborar (nam omnu havas la yuro laborar) Me darfas NE laborar (nam me es retretinta) Me NE darfas laborar (nam me es skol-puero) Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1731 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43091 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2005 15:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2005 15:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2005 15:56:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 49717 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2005 15:56:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20050430155601.49715.qmail@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.154] by web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:56:01 CEST Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:56:01 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Adiakritikala helpeto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara Jacques: Yen kelka plus anomalaji, quin me trovabas che tua arkivi, pri l' projeto lingual adiakritika: - abominda -> abomininda (verbo: abomin.ar) - CASA -> DOMO (en Ido) - GRANDE -> GRANDA (adjektivo, ne adverbo) - INTER (la Franca tradukuro divenis Kastiliana) - POSABLE -> POSIBLA (adjektivo en Ido) - PROJEKTO -> (forsan) PROJETO (me atencigas pri l' difero inter "projektar" e "projetar"; forsan, "projeto" es la vorto quan tu intencas) - alkemisto -> alkemiisto (alkemi.o) - "algebre" ed "algebrique" repetesas en la listo. Voluntez ne tote fidar a mea sugesti e korektiguri. Me esperas ke l' hik informo esos util a ni omna. Adavane, Jacques! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1732 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41278 invoked from network); 2 May 2005 02:37:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2005 02:37:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2005 02:37:57 -0000 Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050502023756.QPVS2892.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:37:56 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.137] by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050502023756.TDJU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:37:56 +1200 To: Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:37:56 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20050502023756.TDJU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara James, Danko por vua respondo. Me dubiteskis pri nia vortaro kande me vidis la sugestita vorti �printero� (*komputoro-aparato qua imprimas) e �chipo� (integrigita cirkuito, A: chip). Ta vorti es angla vorti kun Ido dezinenci e tote desapta por nia linguo. �Print-� ne es Ido radiko, ed sufixo �-er-� havas altra senco e �chip-� ja existas en Ido. Semblas ke existas tento uzar l�angla finalo �-er� + Idala dezinenci. Ni ne bezonas nova sufixo nam Ido ja havas procesoro, generatoro, alternatoro edc. La sufixo �-ilo� ( �moyeno agar�), qua hodie havas plura senci, forsan povas havar generala senco. Do �imprimilo� = manuala o mekanikala mashino, ma �imprimoro� (�printer�) = *komputoro-guvernita aparato qua funcionas per diferanta maniero (inko-sprico o lasero). Do A: �-er� divenas Ido �-oro�. Komprenende, ni bezonas ampla diskuto pri ta nova vorti, ma kande? Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2005/04/30 Sat AM 05:36:10 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas > > Kara Richard > > Pri sufixo -oro*, me opinionas ke ni devas konsiderar tre sorgoze la > neceseso di tala sufixo ante adoptar ol. Lo maxim facila esus erorar per > adoptar sufixo nenecesa, o kun nejusta formo, o nejusta senco. Exemple, en > Ido ni havas generator/o, ma nula verbo gener/ar* o generat/ar*. Se ni > adoptus sufixo -oro, ni mustus skribar produkt/oro* - ka vere preferinda? > > Me opinionas ke ni bezonas ampla studio pri la vorti qui ja existas en Ido. > Generale me nule es konvinkita ke ni bezonas -oro*, nek ke ol produktus bona > formi. Pluse, me ne es konvinkita ke ni povus distingar klare inter la > senci di -oro ed -ilo. Kad imprim/ilo subite esus nekorekta? > > Mea provizora konsilo es ke ni adoptez kelka substantivi quale komputor/o*, > printor/o*, apud existanta generator/o, qui esus egale valida kam derivuri > per -ilo, exemple: > > *printor/o = imprim/ilo > *komputor/o = kalkul/ilo (cirkume) > generator/o = produkt/ilo (cirkume) > > ec. > > Ma me preferus lektar ampla studiuro ante fine decidar. > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented > European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with > Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested > and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 > > > > > >From: > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >To: > >Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas > >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:10:56 +1200 > > > >Kara James e samideani, > >Me remarkas vua komenti pri �-abas� ed �-oro�. > >(1) Olim me opinionas ke la uzado di *komputori e simila moyeno en la > >teknolgiala mondo forsan meritus nova sufixo. �-oro�. Nun me trovas ke > >preske omna mashini, aparati e mem implementi kontenas mikra *komputoro por > >regular la funcio. Tamen, multa vorti en diversa lingui signifikas �moyeno > >facar� e havas finalo di A: �-er� od �or�, G: �-er�, F: �-eur�, H: �-or�, > > e konseque Ido povas uzar �-oro�. (La sufixo �-ero� ja existas en Ido). > >Exemple: > >A: computer, Ido: *komputoro > >A: printer, Ido: *imprimoro > >A: router, Ido: *voyoro > >A: scanner, Ido: *skanoro > >A: adder, Ido: *adicionoro > >A: divider, Ido: *dividoro, edc. > >La sufixo �-ilo� restas quale generala sufixo o por plu antiquatra o > >manuala implementi e mashini, p.e. *imprimoro = moderna *komputorala > >mashino qua imprimas. > > �Imprimilo� = la plu antiqua �imprim-mashino�. > >(2) La plu longa �-atoro� ja existas en vorti quale �generatoro� ma forsan > >ne es necesa havar specala sufixo. > >(3) La komento pri �-abas� semblas justa. > >Amikale, Richard S. > > > > > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > > Date: 2005/03/27 Sun AM 04:15:41 GMT+12:00 > > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [linguo] -oro ed -abas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1733 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2321 invoked from network); 2 May 2005 20:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 May 2005 20:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 May 2005 20:18:56 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 May 2005 13:19:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 20:19:12 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20050502023756.TDJU7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.137]> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 20:19:12 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 May 2005 20:19:12.0527 (UTC) FILETIME=[346C09F0:01C54F54] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Richard, kar amiki Pos kelka pensado, me nun opinionas ke ni ne bezonas ampla studiuro. La questiono es decidebla segun nur un vorto: generator/o Me explikez: generator/o es ja oficala vorto en Ido. Per sufixo -oro ni mustus rikrear ica formo. Konseque, ni bezonus nova verbo *generat/ar. (Neposibla es sufixo -atoro kun verbo *gener/ar, nam gener/o ja existas) Nu, la formo generator/o es tote internaciona DEFIS (GAFIH). Kontraste, la formo generat/ar es nur EIS (AIH). Pluse, en IS (IH) la formo es altra: generar Pluse, *generat/ar havus senco apene distingebla de produkt/ar Pro omna ca motivi, verbo *generat/ar ne es adoptebla en Ido. Ma ni ankore bezonas generator/o. Me konkluzas: ni ne povas adoptar sufixo -oro Vicee ni bezonas plura nova substantivi qui finas per -or/o (kom parto dil radiko): *komputor/o ec. Me pregas la Linguala Sekretario, oficaligar ica necesa vorti balde. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas >Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:37:56 +1200 > >Kara James, >Danko por vua respondo. Me dubiteskis pri nia From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1734 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79514 invoked from network); 4 May 2005 00:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2005 00:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp13.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2005 00:06:44 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1302.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8BC737000082 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 02:06:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1304 (wwinf1304 [172.22.144.31]) by mwinf1302.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 80DC97000081 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 02:06:43 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050504000643527.80DC97000081@mwinf1302.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <21253625.1115165203520.JavaMail.www@wwinf1304> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 02:06:43 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Kara James, Vu skribis: > (Neposibla es sufixo -atoro kun verbo *gener/ar, nam gener/o ja existas) En Franca la vorto "genre " havas tri senci: 1) speco, kategorio, klaso 2) karaktero maskulala o feminala di substantivo 3) sorto o stando-maniero Fakte la dicionario Franca-Ido di Couturat e de Beaufront donas la sequanta tradukuri pri la franca vorto "genre": genero (grammaire) genro genre humain : hom-ala speco, hom-aro dernier genre : lasta modo un genre de vie : speco > maniero > di vivo peintre de genre : jenr(o-pikt)-isto peinture de genre : jenro-pikt-ado, (oeuvre) -uro avoir bon genre : havar bona manieri se donner un genre : havar afektac-ata manieri Cakaze l'utileso di "genero" es diskutebla e segun me la senci 1 e 2 povus tradukesar tre bone per "genro" quale en Esperanto. Ito povus liberigar "genero" por altra senco o por posibligar la sufixo -atoro kun verbo *gener/ar. Kordiale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1735 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97291 invoked from network); 5 May 2005 03:43:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2005 03:43:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.159) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2005 03:43:47 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050505034346.HIDT2892.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 15:43:46 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.190] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050505034346.TNPE4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.190]> for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 15:43:46 +1200 To: Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:43:46 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050505034346.TNPE4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.190]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara James, (1) Vu es justa, vorti kom =93generatoro, carburatoro, ed alter= natoro=94 es ja vorti en Ido e ni ne bezonas ula verbo quale =93generar=94.= Do *komputoro es apta vorto e ne bezonas verbo =93komputar=94 (kalkular su= ficas). (2) Me NE sugestas nova sufixo =91-oro=94 ma me havas desquietesi p= ri certena tenti adoptar la finalo =93-ero=94 en Ido =3D angla vorti kun fi= nalo =93-er=94. (Ex: =93printero=94, l=92aparato).\, exemplo me olim vidis.= (3) Me sentas ke en la teknologiala mondo hodie la sufixo =93-ilo=94 ne to= te explikas olua funciono. Ofte nova vorti en angla qui signifikas =93moyen= o agar=94 havas finalo =94-er=94 od en hispana =93-or=94, konseque ta nova = vorti en Ido povas uzar =93-oro=94. Forsan, evitar longa nomo kom * kompu= tor-guvernita-imprimilo ni povas uzar =93imprimoro=94. Do =93-oro=94 rempla= sas A: =93-er=94 en =93printer=94. Forsan Ido radiko aparas, ma nun existas= nova vorto do =93imprimorala=94, =93imprimoras=94 edc. e havas senco =3D l= =92aparato quan guvernesas per *komputoro (o simila).Quankam me odias nova = vorti vice existanta Ido vorti o radiki, nia linguo mustas aceptar la nova = vorti quin on renkontras kun nova deskovraji od idei. Amikale, Richard S= . > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2005/05/03 Tue A= M 08:19:12 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: Re: [= linguo] -oro ed -abas > > [Non-text portions of this message have been= removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1736 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52125 invoked from network); 5 May 2005 16:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2005 16:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2005 16:20:35 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 May 2005 09:20:17 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 05 May 2005 16:20:17 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <21253625.1115165203520.JavaMail.www@wwinf1304> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:20:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 May 2005 16:20:17.0728 (UTC) FILETIME=[53748C00:01C5518E] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Regretinde la formo gener/o es tote internaciona, e pluse on mustas konsiderar la derivuro gener/al/a, tote internaciona e multe plu frequa en Ido kam gener/o. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [linguo] -oro ed -abas >Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 02:06:43 +0200 (CEST) > >Kara James, > >Vu skribis: > > (Neposibla es sufixo -atoro kun verbo *gener/ar, nam gener/o ja existas) > >En Franca la vorto "genre " havas tri senci: >1) speco, kategorio, klaso >2) karaktero maskulala o feminala di substantivo >3) sorto o stando-maniero > >Fakte la dicionario Franca-Ido di Couturat e de Beaufront donas la sequanta >tradukuri pri la franca vorto "genre": >genero >(grammaire) genro >genre humain : hom-ala speco, hom-aro >dernier genre : lasta modo >un genre de vie : speco > maniero > di vivo >peintre de genre : jenr(o-pikt)-isto >peinture de genre : jenro-pikt-ado, (oeuvre) -uro >avoir bon genre : havar bona manieri >se donner un genre : havar afektac-ata manieri > >Cakaze l'utileso di "genero" es diskutebla e segun me la senci 1 e 2 povus >tradukesar tre bone per "genro" quale en Esperanto. >Ito povus liberigar "genero" por altra senco o por posibligar la sufixo >-atoro kun verbo *gener/ar. > > >Kordiale >Loik > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1737 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76597 invoked from network); 6 May 2005 11:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2005 11:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly06.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.216) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2005 11:34:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 19476 invoked from network); 6 May 2005 11:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.227]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly06.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 May 2005 11:34:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 2105 invoked from network); 6 May 2005 11:34:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oemcomputer) ([195.23.194.135]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt11.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 May 2005 11:34:15 -0000 Message-ID: <004901c55230$288d8bc0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:33:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: egocentrika X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves En la nonesma numero di 'Adavane!', recente aparinta, Eduardo Rodi publikigis tre interesanta artiklo qua, sub la titulo 'Ka vu konocas ta pueri?' (p. 8-15), traktas la famoza *kartuno 'Mafalda' dal Arjentiniana autoro Quino. En ta lektinda artiklo, skribita en ecelanta Ido, Rodi uzas la vorto 'egocentrata' (p. 12) por qualifikar Miguelito, un del puera heroi dil *kartuno. Pluse, sur pag. 14 il parolas pri la �egocentraleso di Miguelito�. Per la vorti 'egocentrata' ed 'egocentrala' Rodi certe volas indikar la sama koncepto quan multa lingui nacional expresas per analoga vorto: A egocentric F �gocentrique G Egozentrisch H egoc�ntrico I egocentrico Ka la vorti 'egocentrata' ed 'egocentrala' es apta por expresar ta koncepto? No, segun mea judiko. 'egocentrata' ne es apta, nam la verbo 'centrar' ne existas en Ido: del substantivo 'centro' on ya darfas derivar la verbi 'centrizar' e 'centraligar', ma ne la verbo 'centrar'. 'egocentrala' ne es apta, nam ol expresas altra koncepto. Ol ya signifikas 'apartenanta al egocentro, o koncernanta la egocentro'. Or persono quan on qualifikas kom 'A egocentric, F �gocentrique, G Egozentrisch, H egoc�ntrico, I egocentrico' ne apartenas a sua egocentro nek simple koncernas ol. Anke 'egocentra' ne esus apta, nam 'egocentra persono' indikus persono qua ipa es egocentro, t.e. la centro dil ego. Or per 'A egocentric, F �gocentrique, G Egozentrisch, H egoc�ntrico, I egocentrico' on prefere volas signifikar persono qua opinionas ke la tota mondo jiras (o devus jirar) cirkum lua ego, od altre dicite, ke lua ego es (o devus esar) la centro dil mondo. Pro ke 'A egocentric, F �gocentrique, G Egozenrisch, H egoc�ntrico, I egocentrico' expresas quaza maladeso psikal, me opinionas ke ni darfas rekursar a nia sufixo -ik por formacar la vorto 'egocentrika' (ego/centr/ika). Per 'egocentrika' ni ya apte indikas persono qua es malada pro egocentro, od altre dicite, persono di qua la maladeso konsequas de ke lu judikas lua ego kom la centro dil mondo. Ne oportas dicar ke la vorto 'egocentrika' es apta anke pro sua nedubitebla internacioneso (mem plu ampla kam l'indikita AFGHI) e pro sua quika rikonocebleso (quankam ca kriterio ne es decidiganta en Ido). Kordiale (e tote ne egocentrike), Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1738 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23723 invoked from network); 6 May 2005 20:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2005 20:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2005 20:22:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2005 20:22:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 May 2005 20:22:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 20:22:28 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004901c55230$288d8bc0$87c217c3@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3584 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: egocentrika X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Gon=E7alo, Me tote konkordas kun vu. Co esas vorto pri qua me tre dub= itis, e por qua me fine selektis eroroze. "Egocentr.ik.o" ya semblas la vo= rto maxim apta. Altra vorto quan me faliis trovar en Ido por ta artiklo e= n Adavane! esas A: character, H: personaje, P: personagem (t.e.: persono = fiktiva). Vortari donas "person.eg.o", ma to semblas a me indikar "persono= importanta", ne "persono fiktiva". Vu uzas hike "heroo" (Miguelito, un de= l puera heroi), ma forsan ol esus apta nur por la precipua personi di fikt= ivajo, ma ne por le minim importanta, quale exemple en "Mafalda", la patro= di Manolito. Kompreneble, "personajo" ne darfas uzesar, pro ke olu ja exi= stas por indikar "kozo di persono" (person.aj.o). Olim, me propozis *char= akter.o (ne "karakter.o", qua anke existas), ma me ne audacis uzar inventu= ro mea en ca artiklo. Me simple uzis do "persono". Tamen me imaginas ke po= vus existar vorto plu apta. Ka vu/vi povus helpar me trovar olu? Parentez= e, me dankas vua opiniono pri "Ka vi konocas ta pueri?" same kam la vorti = di Carlo Nardini por me, koncerne la temo recente diskutita pri la "Prezen= to Antea". Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI > En la nonesma numero di 'Adav= ane!', recente aparinta, Eduardo Rodi > publikigis tre interesanta artiklo = qua, sub la titulo 'Ka vu konocas ta > pueri?' (p. 8-15), traktas la famoz= a *kartuno 'Mafalda' dal Arjentiniana > autoro Quino. > > En ta lektinda = artiklo, skribita en ecelanta Ido, Rodi uzas la vorto > 'egocentrata' (p. 1= 2) por qualifikar Miguelito, un del puera heroi dil > *kartuno. Pluse, sur= pag. 14 il parolas pri la =ABegocentraleso di Miguelito=BB. > > Per la v= orti 'egocentrata' ed 'egocentrala' Rodi certe volas indikar la sama > kon= cepto quan multa lingui nacional expresas per analoga vorto: > > A egocent= ric > F =E9gocentrique > G Egozentrisch > H egoc=E9ntrico > I egocentrico >= > Ka la vorti 'egocentrata' ed 'egocentrala' es apta por expresar ta kon= cepto? > No, segun mea judiko. > > 'egocentrata' ne es apta, nam la verbo = 'centrar' ne existas en Ido: del > substantivo 'centro' on ya darfas deriv= ar la verbi 'centrizar' e > 'centraligar', ma ne la verbo 'centrar'. > > '= egocentrala' ne es apta, nam ol expresas altra koncepto. Ol ya signifikas = > 'apartenanta al egocentro, o koncernanta la egocentro'. Or persono quan = on > qualifikas kom 'A egocentric, F =E9gocentrique, G Egozentrisch, H ego= c=E9ntrico, > I egocentrico' ne apartenas a sua egocentro nek simple koncer= nas ol. > > Anke 'egocentra' ne esus apta, nam 'egocentra persono' indikus= persono qua > ipa es egocentro, t.e. la centro dil ego. Or per 'A egocent= ric, F > =E9gocentrique, G Egozentrisch, H egoc=E9ntrico, I egocentrico' on= prefere volas > signifikar persono qua opinionas ke la tota mondo jiras (= o devus jirar) > cirkum lua ego, od altre dicite, ke lua ego es (o devus e= sar) la centro dil > mondo. > > Pro ke 'A egocentric, F =E9gocentrique, G= Egozenrisch, H egoc=E9ntrico, I > egocentrico' expresas quaza maladeso ps= ikal, me opinionas ke ni darfas > rekursar a nia sufixo -ik por formacar l= a vorto 'egocentrika' > (ego/centr/ika). > > Per 'egocentrika' ni ya apte = indikas persono qua es malada pro egocentro, od > altre dicite, persono di= qua la maladeso konsequas de ke lu judikas lua ego > kom la centro dil mo= ndo. > > Ne oportas dicar ke la vorto 'egocentrika' es apta anke pro sua = nedubitebla > internacioneso (mem plu ampla kam l'indikita AFGHI) e pro sua= quika > rikonocebleso (quankam ca kriterio ne es decidiganta en Ido). > >= > Kordiale (e tote ne egocentrike), > > Gon=E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1739 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2802 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 01:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2005 01:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.55) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2005 01:10:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 56637 invoked by uid 60001); 7 May 2005 01:10:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20050507011045.56635.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.118.230] by web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 May 2005 03:10:45 CEST Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 03:10:45 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Adiakritikala helpeto (2) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Jacques! Meajudike, por plufaciligar nia laboro, forsan esus konvenanta publikigar (se ne singlafoye, adminime de tempo a tempo) l'Ido-vorti quin tu adjuntabos maxim recente al arkivo general. Tale, ni povus ya helpar plu facile, sen lektor e rilektor la tota listo singlafoye. Suficus ke tu publikigus l'Ido-versiono dil maxim fresha vorti quin tu inkluzabos lastatempe. Se ne, forsan ni mustos vartar til ke tu parfinabos tua laboro, ne havanta la posiblajo helpar dume. Yen mea modesta kontributo al projeto: - AFRIKO -> AFRIKA - AZIO -> AZIA - PULMO -> PULMONO - ARTERIE -> ARTERIO (atencez pri [ido: arterio] ibe) E pluse... - amno -> anmo - plibonigar -> plubonigar - proksima -> proxima - "america del norte" (mankas che la Hispana) Adavane, Jacques! P A R T A K A Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1740 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86984 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 10:07:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 May 2005 10:07:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly03.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.213) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2005 10:07:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 26778 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 10:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly03.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 7 May 2005 10:07:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 22968 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 10:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VITERBO) ([195.23.194.197]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 7 May 2005 10:07:11 -0000 Message-ID: <000001c552ec$84fab6f0$c5c217c3@VITERBO> To: References: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 02:42:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: egocentrika X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Eduardo, Por tradukar 'A character, F personnage, G Person, H personaje, I personaggio' me ordinare dicas 'persono' o - se lu es precipua od importanta - 'heroo'. Olim me experimente uzis la vorto 'rol/ier/o', ma nulu imitis me. Anke 'pleanto' es apta, se la kuntexto es sat klara. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1741 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5657 invoked from network); 8 May 2005 11:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 May 2005 11:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.39) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 11:58:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 8 May 2005 04:58:30 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.202 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 08 May 2005 11:58:30 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 11:58:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2005 11:58:30.0848 (UTC) FILETIME=[40AA1C00:01C553C5] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Linguolistani Che Wikipedio me volas skribar artikli pri la angla koncepti "speed" e "velocity". Ico ne es posibla, nam en Ido amba vorti tradukesas per rapid/eso. Ica vorto suficas por omnadiala uzado, ma tote ne por cienco, ube esas du diferanta koncepti. Me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a (F veloce). Ica vorto signifikas "rapida ye partikulara direciono". Per la derivuro *veloc/eso, ni povus tradukar angla "velocity". Ka bona propozo? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1742 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30497 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 00:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2005 00:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly03.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.213) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 00:09:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 865 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 00:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt02.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.194]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly03.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 9 May 2005 00:09:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 12267 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 00:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.202]) ([195.23.194.202]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt02.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 9 May 2005 00:09:03 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [265.6.5]); Mon, 09 May 2005 01:09:00 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c5542b$4d2e8b30$cac217c3@VITERBO> To: References: Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 01:07:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves La vorto *veloca semblas utila ed adoptinda. Ol expresas rapideso pasable metodoza, kontinua, uniforma, la rapideso di kuranto, fluganto, natanto, edc. Kavalo kuras *veloce, e gepardo mem plu *veloce. Anke rivero povas fluar *veloce, ed on tote korekte parolas pri *veloceso di lumo. Nia moderna socio ne nur prizas ma quaze kultas rapideso e *veloceso sempre plu multe. On mustas fabrikar sempre plu rapida *komputori e plu *veloca automobili por satisfacar sempre plu postulema bezoni e sempre plu granda expekti dal konsumeri. *Veloca do es lo rapida inter du punti, es lo movanta rapide en ula direciono, es lo pariranta longa disto dum kurta tempo - o kurta disto dum kurtega tempo. La koncepto 'rapida' kontenas la koncepto '*veloca', same kam la koncepto 'maro kontenas la koncepto 'oceano', la koncepto 'veturo' la koncepto 'automobilo', e 'blamar' kontenas 'reprimandar', e 'bela' kontenas 'miniona', e 'kavalo' kontenas 'poneo', ed 'animalo' kontenas 'bestio', e 'homo' kontenas 'viro', edc. Altre dicite: omno *veloca es rapida, ma ne omno rapida es *veloca. Exemple, diskurso, regardo, respondo, reakto, penso povas esar rapida, ma tote ne *veloca. Tamen James es tote justa per dicar ke 'rapida' suficas por omnadia uzado. Ni do rezervez *veloca (e lua derivuro *veloceso) precipue por texti ciencal (ube la nuanco povas esar utila o mem necesa) ed eventuale por poezio. Pluse, '*veloca' es sat internaciona. Ultre A velocity (= *veloceso) on povas argumentizar la debato anke per: F v�loce [literaturala], I veloce, H veloz (= *veloca) F v�locit� [literaturala], I velocit�, H velocidad (= *veloceso) Nu, '*veloca', se on kelke atencos, ja existas en Ido, celita en la vorto 'velocipedo', qua cetere es mem plu internaciona kam la vorti jus mencionita. Ol ya es AFGHI e ne nur, nam ol es uzata anke en altra lingui (exemple en la Polona: welocyped). Anke en la Rusa on uzas ol, ma en ta linguo ol signifikas 'biciklo', se mea dicionarii ne trompas me. Rezume: la propozo da James es apoginda. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 26-12-2004 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1743 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75622 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 05:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2005 05:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.16) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 05:26:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2005 05:25:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 May 2005 05:25:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 05:25:36 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000001c552ec$84fab6f0$c5c217c3@VITERBO> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1138 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Pri personi en fiktivaji X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Gon=E7alo, De vua propozaji, me nur havas objeciono por "pleanto". Ol= u semblas aludar segun me la aktoro qua "pleas" rolo, e ne la homo fiktiva= quan ta aktoro pleas. Kontree, roliero, pro la sama rezono semblas tre b= ona. Pluse, me havas altra propozajo qua jus *okuris a me. Pri homo Franc= a, exemple, ni dicas ke lu esas "Franco". Homo nigra esas "nigro". Homo yu= na esas "yuno". Or, se 'A character, ...' esas "homo fiktiva", lore lu esa= s "fiktivo", ka? La sola objeciono quan me ipsa trovas a ta vorto esas ke = kelkafoye, cinemo e televiziono fiktivigas la vivo reala di homi historial= a. Tale, en filmo pri Napol=E9on, exemple, la heroo nule povus esas "fikt= ivo", nam il reprezentus viro qua fakte (ne fiktive) ya existis. Quon vu/= vi opinionas? Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. > Kara Eduardo, > > Por tr= adukar 'A character, F personnage, G Person, H personaje, I > personaggio'= me ordinare dicas 'persono' o - se lu es precipua od > importanta - 'hero= o'. Olim me experimente uzis la vorto 'rol/ier/o', ma nulu > imitis me. A= nke 'pleanto' es apta, se la kuntexto es sat klara. > > Kordiale, > > Gon= =E7alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1744 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88409 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 10:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2005 10:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep12-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 10:56:27 -0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by amsfep12-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050509105533.GJY1611.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@localhost> for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:55:33 +0200 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.16 (webedge20-101-1106-20040809) To: Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:55:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20050509105533.GJY1611.amsfep12-int.chello.nl@localhost> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Reply-To: ido.info@chello.nl Subject: Re: [linguo] Digest Number 681 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939 X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info > > van: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > datum: 2005/05/08 zo PM 11:35:00 CEST > aan: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > onderwerp: [linguo] Digest Number 681 > > > There is 1 message in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. *veloca > From: "James Chandler" > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 11:58:30 +0000 > From: "James Chandler" > Subject: *veloca > > Kara Linguolistani > > Che Wikipedio me volas skribar artikli pri la angla koncepti "speed" e > "velocity". Ico ne es posibla, nam en Ido amba vorti tradukesas per > rapid/eso. Ica vorto suficas por omnadiala uzado, ma tote ne por cienco, > ube esas du diferanta koncepti. > > Me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a (F veloce). Ica vorto signifikas "rapida > ye partikulara direciono". Per la derivuro *veloc/eso, ni povus tradukar > angla "velocity". > > Ka bona propozo? > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented > European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with > Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested > and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1745 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79871 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 20:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2005 20:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 20:48:45 -0000 Received: from gr.189.172.204.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.172.204] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DVFB3-00093I-4p for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 09 May 2005 21:48:33 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:51:48 +0100 Message-ID: <200559215148.859717@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Generala senco dil Angla vorto "velocity" esas simple "rapideso", quale sem= ble anke por la Franca "v=E9locit=E9", Hispana "velocidad" ed Italiana "vel= ocit=E0". La Angla vorto havas anke teknikala senci, en fiziko (quale Jame= s mencionas) ed anke en ekonomiko. Me opinionas ke la propozo da James esa= s bona. Tamen, me ne savas la equivalanti en altra lingui por la senco fiz= ikala (o por la senco ekonomikala). Forsan altri povas helpar. Robert. ___= ________________ James Chandler skribis: Kara Linguolistani Che Wikipedi= o me volas skribar artikli pri la angla koncepti "speed" e "velocity". =A0I= co ne es posibla, nam en Ido amba vorti tradukesas per rapid/eso. =A0Ica vo= rto suficas por omnadiala uzado, ma tote ne por cienco, ube esas du diferan= ta koncepti. Me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a (F veloce). =A0Ica vorto sig= nifikas "rapida ye partikulara direciono". =A0Per la derivuro *veloc/eso, n= i povus tradukar angla "velocity". Ka bona propozo? Kordiale, James Chand= ler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1746 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42828 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 23:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 May 2005 23:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly06.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.216) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 23:43:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 16526 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 23:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.196]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly06.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 9 May 2005 23:43:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 11028 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 23:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.180.118]) ([195.23.180.118]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 9 May 2005 23:42:56 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.300 [266.11.6]); Tue, 10 May 2005 00:42:37 +0100 Message-ID: <005101c554f0$c7d92c30$76b417c3@VITERBO> To: References: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 00:22:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri personi en fiktivaji X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Eduardo, Vua objeciono kontre 'pleanto' es tote justa. Ca vorto ya ne es apta kande on parolas pri teatro o cinemo. Vua propozo pri 'fiktivo' es susteninda, kondicione ke on egardas la reskrikto quan vu ipsa indikis. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06-05-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1747 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30275 invoked from network); 10 May 2005 02:54:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2005 02:54:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.145) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2005 02:54:31 -0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050510025244.TKAP28243.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:52:44 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.188] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050510025243.ZXFD4494.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.188]> for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:52:43 +1200 To: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:52:43 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20050510025243.ZXFD4494.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.188]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara Robert, ed amiki, Me kredas ke A: velocity, H: velocidad, F: v�locit� edc. es substantivo e kustume ne es adjektivo. Konseque por ta quanteso ni devas skribar *veloceso o mem *veloco. La vorto havas reala senco pro ke on povas mezurar ol, quankam forsan existas abstrakta senco. Me regretas ke me ne savas ekonomiko, ma ciencale *veloceso = rapideso en certena sinso, t.e. vektoro. kun grandeso e sinso. Rapideso es ckanjo di situeso po tempo ma sen preciza sinso. Do ol ne es vektoro. *Veloceso es tempope �pseudo-adjektivo�, en la kompozita substantivo *veloceso-equationo, edc. En angla la ordinara uzado es �rapideso� e *veloceso es kustume nur por cienco. Tamen, me remarkas ke hispana (ed altra lingui?) kustume uzas �velocidad� (*veloceso) vice �rapideso�. Do, me anke sugestas *veloceso (o *veloco) por ciencala temi e quale substantivo bezonas altra adjektivo, exemple �alta *veloceso�. La sugesto da James di radiko *veloc-� es bona ed utila. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Robert > Date: 2005/05/10 Tue AM 08:51:48 GMT+12:00 > To: > Subject: Re: [linguo] *veloca > > Generala senco dil Angla vorto "velocity" esas simple "rapideso", quale semble anke por la Franca "v?locit?", Hispana "velocidad" ed Italiana "velocit?". > > La Angla vorto havas anke teknikala senci, en fiziko (quale James mencionas) ed anke en ekonomiko. > > Me opinionas ke la propozo da James esas bona. > > Tamen, me ne savas la equivalanti en altra lingui por la senco fizikala (o por la senco ekonomikala). Forsan altri povas helpar. > > Robert. > ___________________ > > James Chandler skribis: > > Kara Linguolistani > > Che Wikipedio me volas skribar artikli pri la angla koncepti "speed" e > "velocity". ?Ico ne es posibla, nam en Ido amba vorti tradukesas per > rapid/eso. ?Ica vorto suficas por omnadiala uzado, ma tote ne por cienco, > ube esas du diferanta koncepti. > > Me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a (F veloce). ?Ica vorto signifikas "rapida > ye partikulara direciono". ?Per la derivuro *veloc/eso, ni povus tradukar > angla "velocity". > > Ka bona propozo? > > Kordiale, James Chandler > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1748 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 85126 invoked from network); 10 May 2005 13:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2005 13:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2005 13:10:59 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.56.186.69) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.0.027) id 425E31F500259ADB for linguolisto@egroups.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:10:14 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c55561$b760f2e0$45ba3852@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:11:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407 X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< ...me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a... derivuro *veloc/eso... [James Chandler] >>> <<< ...veloc.a*...la propozo da James es apoginda... [Gon�alo Neves] >>> <<< ... me opinionas ke la propozo da James esas bona... [Robert] >>> <<< ...la sugesto da James di radiko *veloc- es bona ed utila... [Richard S.] >>> Anke me trovas la propozo tre oportuna. Fakte me ja uzis sen-probleme ca radiko, en mea Mesajo "Kloko", N. 1034 a Linguolisto (2 Novembro 2003), ube me parolis pri "la veloceso* dil Tero" en sua elipsa orbito cirkum la Suno. Evidente por me "rapideso" esis ne satisfacanta en tala kuntexto. En la mesajo me skribis apendice: veloc.a*: sinonimo di rapida, ma plu apta en la cienco, segun me. Lore me anke furnisis la relatanta AFGHIR-ajo: [veloca / veloceso] A speedy / speed, velocity F rapide, v�loce (liter.) / vitesse G geschwind / Geschwindgkeit H veloz / velocidad P veloz / velocidade I veloce / velocit� R skorostnoy / skorost L velox / velocitas Nun me esas mem plue konvinkita, pos lektir la pertinenta komenti da Gon�alo Neves e Richard Stevenson. Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1749 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13086 invoked from network); 10 May 2005 19:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2005 19:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly04.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.214) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2005 19:06:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 11156 invoked from network); 10 May 2005 19:05:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.197]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly04.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 10 May 2005 19:05:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 12614 invoked from network); 10 May 2005 19:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VITERBO) ([195.23.180.117]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt05.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 10 May 2005 19:05:54 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c55593$4b659870$75b417c3@VITERBO> To: References: <20050510025243.ZXFD4494.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.188]> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:04:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves La recenta mesajo da Richard igis me riponderar la problemo e chanjar mea vidpunto. Semblas a me ke Richard es tote justa. La nova radiko devus esar substantiva vice adjektiva. Same kam ni ja havas la pari 'varma/kaloro', 'kolda/frigoro', 'forta/forco', ni do havus anke la paro 'rapida/*veloc...o'. Tamen la maxim apta vorto, segun me, es ne *veloco ma *velocitato (A velocity, F v�locit�, H velocidad, I velocit� < L velocitate-). *velocitato es tote apta vorto, sat internaciona e konforma ad altra vorti ja radikifinta en Ido: autoritato, equitato, kalamitato, karitato, majotitato, minoritato, varietato, vanitato. Yen probata defino: *velocitat/o: grado ye qua ulo movas o developesas. Exempli: *velocitato di rotaco *velocitato di jiro *velocitato di sedimentesko *velocitato di kresko (di organismo, ekonomio, edc) *velocitato di flugo *velocitato di la lumo *velocitato dil sono instantala *velocitato averaja *velocitato Kande on parolas pri *velocitato di kozo, on tote ne savas ka la kozo es rapida o lenta, nam *velocitato expresas nur grado, qua ya povas esar alta o basa. Kontree, kande on parolas pri rapideso di kozo, on ya savas ke la kozo es rapida. Exemple, on povas mezurar la *velocitato di heliko, ya tre lenta bestio... Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1750 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48756 invoked from network); 11 May 2005 19:49:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2005 19:49:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.36) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2005 19:49:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:49:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:49:46 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <000901c55593$4b659870$75b417c3@VITERBO> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 19:49:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 19:49:46.0505 (UTC) FILETIME=[95823790:01C55662] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Estimata Goncalo Del komenco me savis ke substantivo suficus, ma se ni povas ganar "gratuite" bela adjektivo, quo expresas "rapida ye certena direciono", pro quo ne? Lumo es rapida, penso es rapida, ma automobilo es *veloca. Pluse, me preferas *velocito kam la tro longa *velocitato. Ma omnakaze se ni adoptas adj-o, ni ne mustas selektar inter la du formi. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "Goncalo Neves" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] *veloca >Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:04:01 +0100 > >La recenta mesajo da Richard igis me riponderar la problemo e chanjar mea >vidpunto. Semblas a me ke Richard es tote justa. La nova radiko devus esar >substantiva vice adjektiva. Same kam ni ja havas la pari 'varma/kaloro', >'kolda/frigoro', 'forta/forco', ni do havus anke la paro >'rapida/*veloc...o'. > >Tamen la maxim apta vorto, segun me, es ne *veloco ma *velocitato (A >velocity, F v�locit�, H velocidad, I velocit� < L velocitate-). *velocitato >es tote apta vorto, sat internaciona e konforma ad altra vorti ja >radikifinta en Ido: autoritato, equitato, kalamitato, karitato, majotitato, >minoritato, varietato, vanitato. > >Yen probata defino: > >*velocitat/o: grado ye qua ulo movas o developesas. > >Exempli: > >*velocitato di rotaco >*velocitato di jiro >*velocitato di sedimentesko >*velocitato di kresko (di organismo, ekonomio, edc) >*velocitato di flugo >*velocitato di la lumo >*velocitato dil sono >instantala *velocitato >averaja *velocitato > >Kande on parolas pri *velocitato di kozo, on tote ne savas ka la kozo es >rapida o lenta, nam *velocitato expresas nur grado, qua ya povas esar alta >o >basa. Kontree, kande on parolas pri rapideso di kozo, on ya savas ke la >kozo >es rapida. Exemple, on povas mezurar la *velocitato di heliko, ya tre >lenta >bestio... > >Kordiale, > >Gon�alo Neves > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1751 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78263 invoked from network); 11 May 2005 20:02:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 May 2005 20:02:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 May 2005 20:02:55 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.31.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.31] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DVxPx-000CbS-UA; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:02:54 +0100 To: , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferando_Tej=F3n?= X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:05:39 +0100 Message-ID: <200551121539.855888@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <000501c55561$b760f2e0$45ba3852@nardinic> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Carlo, Gon=E7alo, James e Richard, Segun mea kompreno, la rapideso di= l Tero en orbito cirkum la suno esas relative konstanta (ne tote, nam la or= bito ne esas cirklo ma elipso). Tamen olua *veloceso - se on restriktus la= vorto al specala senco fizikala mencionita da James e Richard - kontinue e= multe chanjas inter limiti di qua la maximo esas supozeble nombre egala al= lora rapideso, e la minimo esas nulo. To esas pro ke tala *veloceso esas r= apideso di movo ye certena direciono o sinso. La direciono o sinso dil Tero= kontinue chanjas nam ol ne movas en rekta lineo. Inter ni kune, on pensas= pri tri diferanta posibla senci di *veloceso: 1. Rapideso di movado kontin= ua e.c.: "rapideso pasable metodoza, kontinua, uniforma, la rapideso di kur= anto, fluganto, natanto, edc. Kavalo kuras *veloce, e gepardo mem plu *velo= ce. Anke rivero povas fluar *veloce, ed on tote korekte parolas pri *veloce= so di lumo." (Gon=E7alo Neves). 2. Specala senco fizikala: rapideso di movo= en certena direciono o sinso. 3. Specala senco ekonomikala: rapideso di ci= rkulado - nombro di kambii, en certena periodo, por qui unajo di pekunio es= as uzata. Ta *veloceso reprezentesas per la litero V en la equaciono (en la= Angla linguo): MV =3D PT ube M =3D quanto de pekunio (money), V =3D olua *= veloceso (velocity), P =3D preco(-nivelo) (price), T =3D nombro di vendi/ko= mpri (transactions). Sorti diferanta di pekunio povas havar *velocesi difer= anta. Semblas a me ke ni bezonas nova vorto precipue, o forsan mem nur, po= r la duesma senco (quale propozis James). Se la nova vorto havus anke la un= esma senco, to donus la desavantajo ke "la *veloceso dil Tero" esus ambigua= . Questiono restanta esas qua vorti esas uzata por singla di ta tri senci = da diversa lingui. Robert. P.S. Gon=E7alo Neves skribis: "La recenta mesa= jo da Richard igis me riponderar la problemo e chanjar mea vidpunto. Sembla= s a me ke Richard es tote justa. La nova radiko devus esar substantiva vice= adjektiva. Same kam ni ja havas la pari 'varma/kaloro', 'kolda/frigoro', '= forta/forco', ni do havus anke la paro 'rapida/*veloc...o'. Kande on parol= as pri *velocitato di kozo, on tote ne savas ka la kozo es rapida o lenta, = nam *velocitato expresas nur grado, qua ya povas esar alta o basa. Kontree,= kande on parolas pri rapideso di kozo, on ya savas ke la kozo es rapida. E= xemple, on =A0povas mezurar la *velocitato di heliko, ya tre lenta bestio..= ." Tamen, vorti quale "alta, granda, rapida, grava, longa, richa, potenta,= profunda, inteligenta, varma" pleas duopla rolo (e multe min ofte anke ula= antonimi). On parolas pri la alteso ne nur di giganto o monto ma anke di n= ano o litero, pri la longeso ne nur di la Granda Muro di Chinia o la period= o depos la kreo dil universo ma anke di expozo fotografala ye milimo di sek= undo. Mem mikrega kozo havas ula "grandeso" od esas "longa" ye poka nanomet= ri. Semblas a me ke ka ni bezonas adjektivo, "veloca", o nur substantivo -= exemple "velocitato" - esas aparta questiono. ________________ Carlo Nar= dini skribis: <<<=A0...me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a... derivuro *veloc= /eso... [James Chandler] >>> <<<=A0...veloc.a*...la propozo da James es ap= oginda... [Gon=E7alo Neves] >>> <<<=A0... me opinionas ke la propozo da Ja= mes esas bona... [Robert] >>> <<<=A0...la sugesto da James di radiko *velo= c- es bona ed utila... [Richard S.] >>> Anke me trovas la propozo tre opo= rtuna. Fakte me ja uzis sen-probleme ca radiko, en mea Mesajo "Kloko", N. 1= 034 a Linguolisto (2 Novembro 2003), ube me parolis pri "la veloceso* dil T= ero" en sua elipsa orbito cirkum la Suno. Evidente por me "rapideso" esis n= e satisfacanta en tala kuntexto. En la mesajo me skribis apendice: veloc.a= *: sinonimo di rapida, ma plu apta en la cienco, segun me. Lore me anke fu= rnisis la relatanta AFGHIR-ajo: [veloca / veloceso] A speedy / speed, veloc= ity F rapide, v=E9loce (liter.) / vitesse G geschwind / Geschwindgkeit H ve= loz / velocidad P veloz / velocidade I veloce / velocit=E0 R skorostnoy / s= korost L velox / velocitas Nun me esas mem plue konvinkita, pos lektir la = pertinenta komenti da Gon=E7alo Neves e Richard Stevenson. Carlo Nardini = Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1752 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63322 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 04:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2005 04:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2005 04:17:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8508639F0; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:47:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01640-10; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:47:06 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CC2CC588B; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:47:03 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF08588A; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:47:03 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:47:03 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ferando_Tej=F3n?= In-Reply-To: <200551121539.855888@SonyFX805> Message-ID: References: <200551121539.855888@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Ye Wed, 11 May 2005, Robert skribis: > rapideso di movo ye certena direciono o sinso. La direciono o sinso > dil Tero kontinue chanjas nam ol ne movas en rekta lineo. Ni distingez inter directiono e sinso. La direciono (e konseque la veloceso) di movado pri la tero kontinue chanjas. Un directiono havas du sinsi. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1753 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19606 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 14:59:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2005 14:59:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly07.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.217) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2005 14:58:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 562 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 14:58:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.196]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly07.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 12 May 2005 14:58:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 7119 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 14:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VITERBO) ([195.23.194.242]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 12 May 2005 14:58:33 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.8]); Thu, 12 May 2005 15:58:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c55703$09f3faf0$f2c217c3@VITERBO> To: References: <200551121539.855888@SonyFX805> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:31:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998 X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara James (JC) e Robert (RC), RC: Yes, vu es tote justa! Do mea rezono pri *velocitato krulas quale kastelo ludkarta... RC: Nu, semblas a me ke, kande on dicas: 'la kavalo kuras *veloce - on ya pensas pri rapida movo en certena direciono o sinso. Do me ne vidas kontredico inter la senci 1 e 2. JC: Yes, pro quo ne? > Pluse, me preferas *velocito kam la tro longa *velocitato. Ma omnakaze se > ni adoptas adj-o, ni ne mustas selektar inter la du formi. Yes. Tamen *velocito esus neaceptebla formo. Se on rezolvas adoptar adjektivo, on mustas derivar ol de F v�loce, H veloz, I veloce (< L veloce-). Se on rezolvus adoptar substantivo, on mustus derivar ol de A velocity, F v�locit�, H velocidad, I velocit� (< L velocitate-), same kam ni havas 'karitato' (ne *karito), 'equitato' (ne *equito), 'kalamitato' (ne *kalamito), 'majoritato' (ne *majorito), 'autoritato' (ne *autorito), edc. La afero dependas ne de personal preferi ma de rigoroza deriv-reguli. Tamen me nun ne sucias lo, nam me renuncas "mea" *velocitato ed itere adheras a *veloca. Kordalie, Gon�alo Neves -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 10-05-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1754 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3478 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 17:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 May 2005 17:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.21) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 May 2005 17:31:25 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:31:04 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 May 2005 17:31:04 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200551121539.855888@SonyFX805> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 17:31:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 17:31:04.0499 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F9EA030:01C55718] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert, kar amiki Me volas klarigar, ke me propozas *veloca kun la preciza senco: rapida ye certena direciono. Ol es precipue por uzo en fiziko. Por omnadiala uzado, rapid/a suficas. Projektilo es veloca*, nam ol movas uldirecione. Ni parolas pri la rapideso di lumo, quo es konstanto 'c', sen direciono. Ma individua lum-radio, quo voyajas de distanta stelo ed atingas nia okuli sur Tero, havas veloceso*, di quo la grandeso es 'c'. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: Robert >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: , Ferando Tej�n > >Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:05:39 +0100 > >Kara Carlo, Gon�alo, James e Richard, > >Segun mea kompreno, la rapideso dil Tero en orbito cirkum la suno esas >relative konstanta (ne tote, nam la orbito ne esas cirklo ma elipso). > >Tamen olua *veloceso - se on restriktus la vorto al specala senco fizikala >mencionita da James e Richard - kontinue e multe chanjas inter limiti di >qua la maximo esas supozeble nombre egala al lora rapideso, e la minimo >esas nulo. To esas pro ke tala *veloceso esas rapideso di movo ye certena >direciono o sinso. La direciono o sinso dil Tero kontinue chanjas nam ol ne >movas en rekta lineo. > >Inter ni kune, on pensas pri tri diferanta posibla senci di *veloceso: >1. Rapideso di movado kontinua e.c.: "rapideso pasable metodoza, kontinua, >uniforma, la rapideso di kuranto, fluganto, natanto, edc. Kavalo kuras >*veloce, e gepardo mem plu *veloce. Anke rivero povas fluar *veloce, ed on >tote korekte parolas pri *veloceso di lumo." (Gon�alo Neves). >2. Specala senco fizikala: rapideso di movo en certena direciono o sinso. >3. Specala senco ekonomikala: rapideso di cirkulado - nombro di kambii, en >certena periodo, por qui unajo di pekunio esas uzata. Ta *veloceso >reprezentesas per la litero V en la equaciono (en la Angla linguo): MV = PT >ube M = quanto de pekunio (money), V = olua *veloceso (velocity), P = >preco(-nivelo) (price), T = nombro di vendi/kompri (transactions). Sorti >diferanta di pekunio povas havar *velocesi diferanta. > >Semblas a me ke ni bezonas nova vorto precipue, o forsan mem nur, por la >duesma senco (quale propozis James). Se la nova vorto havus anke la unesma >senco, to donus la desavantajo ke "la *veloceso dil Tero" esus ambigua. > >Questiono restanta esas qua vorti esas uzata por singla di ta tri senci da >diversa lingui. > >Robert. > >P.S. Gon�alo Neves skribis: >"La recenta mesajo da Richard igis me riponderar la problemo e chanjar mea >vidpunto. Semblas a me ke Richard es tote justa. La nova radiko devus esar >substantiva vice adjektiva. Same kam ni ja havas la pari 'varma/kaloro', >'kolda/frigoro', 'forta/forco', ni do havus anke la paro >'rapida/*veloc...o'. > >Kande on parolas pri *velocitato di kozo, on tote ne savas ka la kozo es >rapida o lenta, nam *velocitato expresas nur grado, qua ya povas esar alta >o >basa. Kontree, kande on parolas pri rapideso di kozo, on ya savas ke la >kozo >es rapida. Exemple, on �povas mezurar la *velocitato di heliko, ya tre >lenta >bestio..." > >Tamen, vorti quale "alta, granda, rapida, grava, longa, richa, potenta, >profunda, inteligenta, varma" pleas duopla rolo (e multe min ofte anke ula >antonimi). On parolas pri la alteso ne nur di giganto o monto ma anke di >nano o litero, pri la longeso ne nur di la Granda Muro di Chinia o la >periodo depos la kreo dil universo ma anke di expozo fotografala ye milimo >di sekundo. Mem mikrega kozo havas ula "grandeso" od esas "longa" ye poka >nanometri. > >Semblas a me ke ka ni bezonas adjektivo, "veloca", o nur substantivo - >exemple "velocitato" - esas aparta questiono. > >________________ > >Carlo Nardini skribis: > ><<<�...me propozas nova radiko *veloc/a... derivuro *veloc/eso... >[James Chandler] >>> > ><<<�...veloc.a*...la propozo da James es apoginda... >[Gon�alo Neves] >>> > ><<<�... me opinionas ke la propozo da James esas bona... >[Robert] >>> > ><<<�...la sugesto da James di radiko *veloc- es bona ed utila... >[Richard S.] >>> > > >Anke me trovas la propozo tre oportuna. >Fakte me ja uzis sen-probleme ca radiko, en mea Mesajo "Kloko", N. 1034 a >Linguolisto (2 Novembro 2003), ube me parolis pri "la veloceso* dil Tero" >en >sua elipsa orbito cirkum la Suno. >Evidente por me "rapideso" esis ne satisfacanta en tala kuntexto. > >En la mesajo me skribis apendice: >veloc.a*: sinonimo di rapida, ma plu apta en la cienco, segun me. > >Lore me anke furnisis la relatanta AFGHIR-ajo: >[veloca / veloceso] >A speedy / speed, velocity >F rapide, v�loce (liter.) / vitesse >G geschwind / Geschwindgkeit >H veloz / velocidad >P veloz / velocidade >I veloce / velocit� >R skorostnoy / skorost >L velox / velocitas > >Nun me esas mem plue konvinkita, pos lektir la pertinenta komenti da >Gon�alo >Neves e Richard Stevenson. > >Carlo Nardini > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1755 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71086 invoked from network); 13 May 2005 02:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2005 02:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.144) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 02:41:02 -0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050513024101.UMPS23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:41:01 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.190] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050513024100.ICBU8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.190]> for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:41:00 +1200 To: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:41:00 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050513024100.ICBU8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.190]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837 X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert, Danko por vua explikado pri *veloceso en ekonomiko. Me kredas= ke Ido nur bezonas du vorti, quale en angla: (1) =93rapideso=94 por ordin= ara o mi-ciencala uzado, ex. =93la rapideso di automobilo=94, =93la rapide= so di spaco-fuzeo=94. =93la rapideso di la tero cirkum la suno=94. (2) =93 = *veloceso=94 quale specala termino en fiziko ed ekonomiko. Tale termino pov= as subisar grafikala o matematikala traktado. Amikale, Richard S. > > = From: Robert > Date: 2005/05/12 Thu AM 08:05:39 GMT+1= 2:00 > To: , > Ferando Tej=F3n > Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca > > [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1756 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50836 invoked from network); 13 May 2005 04:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2005 04:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 04:35:04 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C6353AF for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:05:01 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05518-07 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:04:47 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C0EF653CC; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:04:45 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962D253AF for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:04:45 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:04:45 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara James, vu skribis... Ye 12 mayo 2005, James Chandler skribis: > Me volas klarigar, ke me propozas *veloca kun la preciza senco: rapida ye > certena direciono. Ol es precipue por uzo en fiziko. Por omnadiala uzado, > rapid/a suficas. Se do, me questionas ka "veloca" esas justa (o dezirinda, aprobenda). > Projektilo es veloca*, nam ol movas uldirecione. Ni parolas pri la rapideso Me opinionas ke tala frazo ne eventos. Fizikisti parolas pri la *veloco di ulo, ma ne ke ulo esas *veloca. Ka vu povas skribar reala frazo kontenanta "veloca", uzita por komunikar ulo pri directiono, e tradukar ol aden la Angla? Me ne trovis tala frazo. Nur se on volas distingar en komuna parolado la rapideso (exemple, di vehilo) dum sua voyajo inter du punti, on distingez inter rapideso e *veloceso. Me pensis ke vu vizis tala distingo pri komuna parolado. Ol esus plusa signifiko, diferanta kam uzo en la fiziko. Se tala plusa signifiko existas en ula lingui, en komuna parolado, forsan on bezonas ol en Ido. > di lumo, quo es konstanto 'c', sen direciono. Ma individua lum-radio, quo > voyajas de distanta stelo ed atingas nia okuli sur Tero, havas veloceso*, di > quo la grandeso es 'c'. Semblas a me ke havar *veloceso, kom ula atribuo (e tale dicar ke ulo esas *veloca), nule importas. Fizikisti ne parolas tale en la Angla. Nur la valoro di la *veloco di ulo, olua rapideso, direciono e sinso, importas. Me konfesas, ke on nur parolas pri la *veloceso di ulo qua "esas *veloca", t.e. qua havas rapideso, direciono e sinso, ma on nultempe dicas ke ol esas *veloca. Do, *veloco esas plu bona kam *veloca, segun me. Altra *vektori havas quanteso (di ulo), direciono e sinso, ma on ne, pro to, kreez adjektiva radiki pri omna li. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1757 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83473 invoked from network); 13 May 2005 07:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2005 07:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 07:36:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 May 2005 07:36:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 May 2005 07:36:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:36:15 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 196 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?rapide,_v=E9loce?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe En la franca: un sprinter particuli=E8rement v=E9loce (qualit=E9 durable= reconnue) est plus ou moins rapide (effectivement; =E0 un moment donn= =E9) =E0 l'arriv=E9e d'une course pr=E9cise. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1758 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87905 invoked from network); 13 May 2005 09:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2005 09:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 09:17:02 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8771389B for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:46:59 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07395-02 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:46:48 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9F84158B7; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:46:46 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72712389B for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:46:46 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:46:46 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] =?iso-8859-1?q?rapide,_v=E9loce?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 13 May 2005, jacquesdehe wrote: > En la franca: > > un sprinter pa= rticuli=E8rement v=E9loce > > (qualit=E9 durable reconnue) > > est plus ou = moins rapide > > (effectivement; =E0 un moment donn=E9) > > =E0 l'arriv=E9e= d'une course pr=E9cise. Danko. En la Angla ne esas tala distingo. Komun= e, on povas parolar pri "velocity" ma ol nur signifikas rapideso. Ciencale= , A. "velocity" signifikas ula vektoro pri qua la grandeso esas rapideso. = Kad en Ido on kreez la distingo di la Franca? Ka ta distingo, qua ne exist= as en altra lingui, esas bezonata en linguo qua devas esar tre simpla? Se = yes, forsan *veloca esas aprobenda. Kuranto esas *veloca, e pro to, hodie = lu esas rapida. Se no, *veloco esas (segun me) aprobenda. On ne dicez ke = la tero esas *veloca pro ke olua direciono chanjas. Amikale, Michael Talbo= t-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1759 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 119 invoked from network); 13 May 2005 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2005 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.50) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:42:42 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:42:41 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:42:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2005 17:42:42.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[29DBA3A0:01C557E3] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] rapide, v�loce X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Jacques Vua exemplo es interesanta, danko. Tamen la distingo en la franca linguo, iliustrita sube, ne povas esar la distingo en Ido. Ni bezonas vorto specale por uzo en fiziko. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "jacquesdehe" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] rapide, v�loce >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:36:15 -0000 > >En la franca: > >un sprinter particuli�rement v�loce > >(qualit� durable reconnue) > >est plus ou moins rapide > >(effectivement; � un moment donn�) > >� l'arriv�e d'une course pr�cise. > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1760 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45651 invoked from network); 13 May 2005 20:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2005 20:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 20:47:22 -0000 Received: from gr.189.172.85.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.172.85] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DWh41-0003YB-6S for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 13 May 2005 21:47:17 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 21:50:31 +0100 Message-ID: <2005513215031.134757@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara Michael e Gon=E7alo, Yes, me savas pri ke direciono havas du sinsi. M= ea motivo por skribar ke *veloceso esas "rapideso di movo ye certena direci= ono o sinso" esis ke la difero en ca kazo esas ne la quanto ma nur la signo= di la *veloceso. Tamen, esabus plu bona dicar ke *veloceso esas "rapideso = di movo ye certena sinso". *Veloceso di +100 m/s en un sinso esas -100 m/s= en la kontrea sinso. Ulo kun rapideso di 100 m/s povas havar *veloceso (la= specala fizikala senco) di, exemple, 76 m/s, o -23 m/s, o 0 m/s, nam la *v= eloceso dependas ye ambe la rapideso e la sinso. 2. Gon=E7alo. Vu skribis:= "Nu, semblas a me ke, kande on dicas: 'la kavalo kuras *veloce - on ya pen= sas pri rapida movo en certena direciono o sinso. Do me ne vidas kontredico= inter la senci 1 e 2." Esus ambigueso se *veloceso havus amba senci. Segu= n la unesma senco di *veloceso, ulo havas rapideso sama kam olua kam *veloc= eso. La movado esas en certena sinso ma la sinso ne importas (e ne importas= se ol chanjas). Tamen, segun la duesma, specala fizikala senco, olua *velo= ceso povas diferar du olua rapideso, nam la sinso importas. Se la sinso cha= njas, lore la *veloceso chanjas, sen chanjo dil rapideso. Robert. _______= _______________ Michael Talbot-Wilson skribis: Ye Wed, 11 May 2005, Rober= t skribis: >=A0rapideso di movo ye certena direciono o sinso. La direciono= o sinso >=A0dil Tero kontinue chanjas nam ol ne movas en rekta lineo. Ni = distingez inter directiono e sinso. =A0La direciono (e konseque la veloceso= ) di movado pri la tero kontinue chanjas. Un directiono havas du sinsi. A= mikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1761 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85130 invoked from network); 14 May 2005 09:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 May 2005 09:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.14) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 May 2005 09:56:15 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 May 2005 02:56:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:56:05 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:56:05 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2005 09:56:05.0250 (UTC) FILETIME=[24D34E20:01C5586B] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido-wikipedio] Georgia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Cirkume un yaro ante nun, vu korektigis mea "Georgia" a "Gruzia" (la olima SSR). Ka vu povus ri-konfirmar la korekta nomo di ca lando en Ido? Predanko Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "Arto Moisio" >Reply-To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido-wikipedio] Georgia >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:56:30 -0000 > >Kara James > >Me pensas ke omna pagini homonimala ecepte "Veloceso" esas korekta. > >Georgia esas nun l' oficala nomo di la stato en Kaukasus, e Gruzia >esas anciena. Me ne savas pro quo la stato esas rinomizita. Anke hike >en Finlando "Georgia" esas la oficala formo. > >Se Vu ne kredas me, vizitez la pagino di omnasavanta CIA: >http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gg.html > >La homonimeso esas nur en skriburo, pro ke la partostato di Usa esas >pronuncita diferante. > >Amikale, Arto > > > > > >Ido Wikipedio : >http://io.wikipedia.org/ >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1762 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77584 invoked from network); 15 May 2005 05:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2005 05:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2005 05:06:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2005 05:06:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2005 05:06:33 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 05:06:31 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 783 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Ka "trahizanto" es korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Lore, la jurnalistaro esperantista taceskis pri la reformo. On insultis me= m e qualifikis kom =ABtrahizanto=BB, =ABJudas=BB, Sro de B. qua deskovresi= s esar l'autoro dil projeto submisita a la linguala komitato sub la nomo I= do por reformar Espo. Kande on volas ocidar sua hundo, on dicas: =ABol esa= s rabioza!=BB (A.-P. BEAUCHEMIN) ido: TRAHIZANTO [de 92: Verr=E4ter] [e= n 65: traitor] [fr 63: traitre] [it 60: traditore] [es 40: traidor] [= pl 39: zdracja] [nl 21: verrader] [ro 20: tradator] [pt 11: traidor] [= cs 10,5: zradce] [ca 9: traidor] [sv 9: foerraedare] [da 5: forraeder; = skurk] [oc 4,1: traditor] [eo: perfidulo] [ia: traitor] [lfn: trador] = [nov: traitere] (en construction) [de 92: Verr=E4ter] > adiakritika = =3D [de 92: verraeter] * Danko From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1763 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74536 invoked from network); 15 May 2005 07:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2005 07:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2005 07:57:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2005 07:57:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 May 2005 07:57:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 07:57:30 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200559215148.859717@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3298 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] *veloca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Robert skribis: > Tamen, me ne savas la equivalanti en al= tra lingui por la senco fizikala (o por la senco ekonomikala). Forsan altr= i povas helpar. Me questionis a mea fratulo, qua (nequale me) savas pri fi= ziko, quo esas la difero inter la vorti Hispana "velocidad" e "rapidez" en= kuntexti teknikala. Il explikis a me ke "rapideso" ne esas vorto teknika= le signifikiva. En fiziko, onu parolas pri "*veloceso" omnakaze. Or, en l= a senco neteknikala dil vorti, onu kustumale (ma ne sempre) facas en la Hi= spana la yena distingo: - *veloceso relatas la tempo bezonata por trairar = ula disto. - rapideso relatas la tempo bezonata por finar ula tasko. Lore= , se me havas la tasko transportar vari ad altra urbo, e me vehas adibe ye= 150 kilometri po horo, me esas evidente *veloca. Ma se me faligas un duim= o de mea vari en la voyo, e devas haltar e retrovenar plurfoye por riprena= r la falaji, lore me ne esas rapida. Kontree, se me vehas plu lente, ma me= sorgas ke nula vari falez, lore me arivus plu tarde ma me ne bezonus retr= ovenar al voyo. Takaze, me agabus ne tre *veloce, ma forsan ya plu rapide.= Irgakaze, me konfesas ke onu ofte audas la vorto "rapideso" e derivaji, = vice "*veloceso" por la signifiko supra di olca: "Il vehis tante rapide ke= il ne sucesis frenagar kande il vidis la bovo". Ma kande me explikis ta d= ifero a mea fratulo, il atencigis da me ke por realigar ula tasko (segun l= a distingo antea) onu bezonas movar, e ta movo eventas ye ula *veloceso. A= ltra maniero forsan plu fortunoza explikar la difero, quan sugestis mea fr= ato, esus ke "rapideso" es la percepto subjektala di "*veloceso". "Rapides= o" ne esas mezurebla objektale, dum ke "veloceso" ya esas. Irgakaze, quale= me explikis komence, me esas nula fizikisto. Espereble do mea letro ne kr= eos plu multa dubiti kam klarigo. Fine, la uzado Hispana dil vorti konkor= das kun la ideo di Gon=E7alo ke: > Kande on parolas pri *velocitato di koz= o, on tote ne savas ka la kozo es rapida o lenta, nam *velocitato expresas= nur grado, qua ya povas esar alta o basa. Kontree, kande on parolas pri r= apideso di kozo, on ya savas ke la kozo es rapida. Exemple, on povas mezur= ar la *velocitato di heliko, ya tre lenta bestio... Amikale, Eduardo A. = RODI. > Generala senco dil Angla vorto "velocity" esas simple "rapideso", = quale semble anke por la Franca "v=E9locit=E9", Hispana "velocidad" ed It= aliana "velocit=E0". > > La Angla vorto havas anke teknikala senci, en fiz= iko (quale James mencionas) ed anke en ekonomiko. > > Me opinionas ke la = propozo da James esas bona. > > Tamen, me ne savas la equivalanti en altra= lingui por la senco fizikala (o por la senco ekonomikala). Forsan altri p= ovas helpar. > > Robert. > ___________________ > > James Chandler skribis= : > > Kara Linguolistani > > Che Wikipedio me volas skribar artikli pri l= a angla koncepti "speed" e > "velocity". =A0Ico ne es posibla, nam en Ido = amba vorti tradukesas per > rapid/eso. =A0Ica vorto suficas por omnadiala u= zado, ma tote ne por cienco, > ube esas du diferanta koncepti. > > Me pro= pozas nova radiko *veloc/a (F veloce). =A0Ica vorto signifikas "rapida > y= e partikulara direciono". =A0Per la derivuro *veloc/eso, ni povus tradukar= > angla "velocity". > > Ka bona propozo? > > Kordiale, James Chandler = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1764 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13195 invoked from network); 15 May 2005 12:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2005 12:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.31) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2005 12:17:28 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 May 2005 05:17:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.208 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 12:17:28 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 12:17:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2005 12:17:28.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[0FAC3AB0:01C55948] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido-wikipedio] Re: Georgia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Dave, Arto, Don ed altri, Oportas explikar, ke en Ido landi havas adoptita Idala nomi. Ni ne decidas la nomo di lando, segun la formo en altra linguo (mem la nacionala linguo di ta lando), o segun autoritato quale CIA. Se ni ja adoptis la nomo Gruzia, ni mustas uzar Gruzia, til ke la DK decidos chanjar ol a Georgia (se ol decidos tale). Me vartas konfirmo da Robert, ma se il ya konfirmos ke la Idala nomo es Gruzia, la ridirekto en Wikipedio es efacenda. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "dave5dave5dave" >Reply-To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido-wikipedio] Re: Georgia >Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 11:20:07 -0000 > >Hiere me vidis la Latina Wikipedio, ed ibe la nomo di ta lando >skribesas "Georgia". >http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia > >"* Georgia civitas in Caucaso/Europa est (Anglice Georgia). Caput >Georgiae Typhlis est. > * Georgia civitates/regio in FCA Australibus, caput Georgiae >Atlanta est. (?Originem de Georgia, Regnus Georgius.?)" > >-Dave From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1765 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90576 invoked from network); 15 May 2005 21:00:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 May 2005 21:00:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2005 21:00:26 -0000 Received: from gr.189.170.106.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.170.106] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1DXQDn-000675-QE for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 May 2005 22:00:24 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:25:25 +0100 Message-ID: <2005514222525.613042@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] RE: [ido-wikipedio] Georgia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203 Kara James, Yes, Gruzia (segun Dyer, Guignon, Roze). Robert. ___________= ________ James Chandler skribis: Kara Robert Cirkume un yaro ante nun, v= u korektigis mea "Georgia" a "Gruzia" (la olima SSR). =A0Ka vu povus ri-kon= firmar la korekta nomo di ca lando en Ido? Predanko Kordiale, James Chand= ler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1766 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99873 invoked from network); 16 May 2005 04:28:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2005 04:28:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60822.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.230) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2005 04:28:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 29505 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2005 04:28:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Message-ID: <20050516042813.29503.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60822.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 21:28:13 PDT Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 21:28:13 -0700 (PDT) To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [ido-wikipedio] Georgia o Gruzia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308 X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me saveskis ke la nomo por "Gruzia" chanjis en Finlando, ma me ne savas kan= de: Forsan to esas la origino dil questiono da Arto. La formo "Gruzia" es= as uzata ne nur en la rusa linguo ma anke en la esteuropana lingui: Gruus= ia (Estoniana, olima finlandana nomo), Gr=FAzia (Hungariana), Gruzi=E2 - #1= 043;#1088;#1091;#1079;#1080;#1103; (Rusa), Gruzi=E2 - #1043;#1088;#1091;#10= 79;#1110;#1103; (Ukrainiana), Gruzie (Cheka), Gruzija (Latviana, Lituaniana= , Serbiana), Gruz=EDnsko (Slovaka), Gruzja (Polona) En la Estoniana on nu= n uzas anke "Georgia". Videz: www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/list_of_cou= ntry_names_in_various_languages Arto Moisio skribis: Ka= r Amiki Me respektas omna linguala decidi dil DK ed uzas "Gruzia" vice "Ge= orgia", se "Gruzia" esas la oficala. Me esas favore stabilismo en la linguo= . Me ne havas oficala vortolibri o katalogi di Ido e me mustas kolektar ap= ta vorti en l' Idala texti da samideani. Altralatere me mustas decidar pri = vorti segun mea logiko sorgante l' Idala Wikipedio. Me ne povas omnakaze ha= ltar la laboro e questionar che Yahoo-listo pri apta vorti. (La listo esus = plena de mea questioni.) Pro to me pregabis plu experta idisti vizitar e ko= rektigar l' Idala Wikipedio. Per korektigi omnu povas lernar che Wikipedio.= La Wikipedio esas apertita por omni, qui volas plubonigar la texti e la r= ubriki. Se ula chanjo bezonas argumento, on povas uzar la pagino "Talk" o a= djuntar la koncernanta pagino a listo dil "diskutinda pagini". Amikale, Ar= to --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo= ! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. [Non-text portions of t= his message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1767 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59948 invoked from network); 16 May 2005 08:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2005 08:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.61) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2005 08:42:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n32.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2005 08:41:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2005 08:41:16 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:41:13 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 505 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: BEB.O X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Regretinde la radiko beb. non es uzata in Ido ! ido: INFANTETO [de 92: baby] [en 65: baby] [fr 63: bebe] [it 60: bimbo] [es 40: nene; bebe] [pl 39: bobas] [nl 21: baby; pop] [ro 20: prunc] [hu 14: baba] [el 12: moro; nipio] [pt 11: bebe] [cs 10,5: baby; mimi] [ca 9: bebe] [sv 9: baby] [sk 5: dojcha] [oc 4,1: nen] [gl 4: bebe] [eu 1,1: haurtxo; nini] [ma 0,4: tarbija] [eo: bebo] [ia: bebe; baby] [lfn: bebe] [nov: bebe] (en construction) * Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1768 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74034 invoked from network); 17 May 2005 00:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2005 00:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.57) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2005 00:20:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 77480 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 00:20:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20050517002041.77478.qmail@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.119.177] by web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 02:20:41 CEST Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 02:20:41 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] BEB.O X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Jacques! Se me juste memoras, la vorto *bebeo existas en Ido' kom propozita e ne ja ofical formo; do, on ya darfas skribar ol, ma on devas asteriskizar ol. Tale, ni havas "infanteto" e "*bebeo". Tu ipsa, ye kelka monati ante nun, uzabis unfoye la vorto "bebeo" che nia forumi: "la bebeo di Partaka". Pri tua antea questiono, la vorto "trahizanto" es ya tote korekta en Ido (verbo: trahiz.ar) e, maxim probable, ol eniris nia linguo' del Franca formi "trahir" e "trahison". Me ne savas kad en E-o existas "trahizi" apud "perfidi", ma "perfid-" ank es justa Ido-radiko. Til balde, kara Jacques! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * --- jacquesdehe skribis: --------------------------------- Regretinde la radiko beb. non es uzata in Ido ! ido: INFANTETO [de 92: baby] [en 65: baby] [fr 63: bebe] [it 60: bimbo] [es 40: nene; bebe] [pl 39: bobas] [nl 21: baby; pop] [ro 20: prunc] [hu 14: baba] [el 12: moro; nipio] [pt 11: bebe] [cs 10,5: baby; mimi] [ca 9: bebe] [sv 9: baby] [sk 5: dojcha] [oc 4,1: nen] [gl 4: bebe] [eu 1,1: haurtxo; nini] [ma 0,4: tarbija] [eo: bebo] [ia: bebe; baby] [lfn: bebe] [nov: bebe] (en construction) * Kordiale, Jacques Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1769 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5813 invoked from network); 20 May 2005 00:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2005 00:29:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2005 00:29:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2005 00:29:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2005 00:29:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 00:29:23 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 99 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Bombardaviono ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kad existas en Ido apta traduko dil angla vorto 'bomber' (aviono di bombardo) ? Danko, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1770 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16969 invoked from network); 20 May 2005 18:21:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2005 18:21:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.45) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2005 18:21:46 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:21:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:21:46 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 18:21:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2005 18:21:46.0545 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8200210:01C55D68] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Bombardaviono ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Jacques Me ja uzis "bombard-aviono" en mea texto pri la Bosko Bohemiana: http://www.geocities.com/idojc/bohemian.html "En 1978, el adjuntis, la chefo dil Usana aerarmeo diskursis apudlage, dum quo il pledis por, e plu tarde recevis, aprobo da Kongreso por la celita bombard-aviono B2." Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "jacquesdehe" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] Bombardaviono ? >Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 00:29:23 -0000 > > >Kad existas en Ido apta traduko dil angla vorto 'bomber' > >(aviono di bombardo) ? > >Danko, > >Jacques > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1771 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68165 invoked from network); 20 May 2005 19:30:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2005 19:30:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.25) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2005 19:30:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:30:29 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.206 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2005 19:30:28 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 19:30:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2005 19:30:29.0170 (UTC) FILETIME=[6166A920:01C55D72] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido-wikipedio] Skribar Japona en Ido X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Dave Forsan por vu esos interesanta la sequanta esayo, en qua Jespersen expresas prefero al sistemo Nihonsiki: http://www.geocities.com/idojc/latin.html Me opinionas ke ni devas skribar stranjera vorti segun la lokal ortografio, ex. "tsunami"; do la sistemo Hepburn semblas apta en Ido. Japoniana saluti Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "dave5dave5dave" >Reply-To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >To: ido-wikipedio@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido-wikipedio] Skribar Japona en Ido >Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 20:35:19 -0000 > >Kande ni skribar Japona en Ido, quale ni mustas skribar? Japona havas >sistemo por skribar ol en 'romaji' (Romala literi) uzesas en l'Angla. >Ma por la pronunco di 'ts' ol uzas 'ts' ma Ido uzas simple 'c'. La >vorto 'tsunami' esas 'cunamo' (kad vera?) en Ido, e forsan la urbo di >'tsu' en Japonia anke divenas 'cu'? La pronunco esas la sama, ma >personi qui volas vidar urbi en Japonia forsan uzos la sistemo nun >uzesas por la urbi en Japon; forsan redirect anke esus bona? >-0- > >Yen la artiklo pri 'Romaji' en l'Angla: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaji > >E videz anke pri la Hepburn sistemo maxim multe uzesas en Japonia: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn > >Kun predanki, > >Dave MacLeod > > > > > >Ido Wikipedio : >http://io.wikipedia.org/ >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1773 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19190 invoked from network); 21 May 2005 05:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2005 05:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2005 05:09:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2005 05:09:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2005 05:09:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 05:09:52 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1415 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] Bombardaviono ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara James, Danko pro e pri "bombard-aviono" . Kordiale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > Kara Jacques > > Me ja uzis "bombard-aviono" en mea texto pri la Bosko Bohemiana: > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/bohemian.html > > "En 1978, el adjuntis, la chefo dil Usana aerarmeo diskursis apudlage, dum > quo il pledis por, e plu tarde recevis, aprobo da Kongreso por la celita > bombard-aviono B2." > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@h... > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented > European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with > Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested > and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 > > > > > >From: "jacquesdehe" > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [linguo] Bombardaviono ? > >Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 00:29:23 -0000 > > > > > >Kad existas en Ido apta traduko dil angla vorto 'bomber' > > > >(aviono di bombardo) ? > > > >Danko, > > > >Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1774 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84405 invoked from network); 22 May 2005 14:39:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2005 14:39:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2005 14:39:27 -0000 Received: from DSL01.212.114.213.98.NEFkom.net [212.114.213.98] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1DZrbt0Syc-0006Oo; Sun, 22 May 2005 16:39:21 +0200 Message-ID: <000301c55edc$0b06ac90$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> To: "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Publikigo" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idopagino" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Ido- Rusa" , "Mailingliste Ido- Portugues" , "Mailingliste Geylesidist" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Mailingliste Europa-diskuti" Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 16:38:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Anunc-periodo por l'internaciona Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse finos du semani pos nun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222 X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Kara geamiki! Me ankorfoye deziras memorigar l'idistaro, ke omna Idisti e = simpatieri dil linguo internaciona esas kordialege invitata asistar l'inter= naciona Ido- renkontro ye fino di septembro 2005. La renkontro eventos inte= r la 23esma di septembro (arivo) e la 27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse= (Sud-Francia). La sejorneyo esos en la hotelo "Anatole France". Omna chamb= ri en ol esas por 2 personi, on pagas en Francia por chambro e ne por perso= ni. On pagas o 29 Euro por chambro kun tualeteyo sur la koridoro do14,50 = Euro ye un persono, o por chambro kun tualeteyo, televiziono e dusheyo 34 E= uro por du personi do 17 Euro ye un persono. Por prezervar chambro on must= as pagar la kontributo por un nokto maxim tarde un monato antee. Konseque = partopren-anunci nur povas egardesar pos prepago dil kontributo por un no= kto. Pro ke la samideano, qua rezervos la chambri surloke vakancos dum jul= io ed agosto 2005 esas necesa, ke omna partopren-anunci e prepagi da ti, qu= i deziras sejornar en la hotelo arivez che me til maxim tarde la 05esma di = junio 2005, do 14 dii pos nun! Omni, qui plu tarde decidos pri lia partopre= no ipsa devos aranjar lia chambro en la hotelo o loko che la tendeyo. Volu= ntez sendar la prepago a la bank-konto di Frank Kasper che la Deutsch= e Bank Bonn, konto-numero 3560422, bank-kodexo 380 707 24 IBAN: DE63 = 3807 0724 0356 0422 00 , BIC: DEUTDEDB (IBAN e BIC nur esas uzebla por= lojanti dil Eurozono ecepte Germani por sparar internaciona bank-spensi.) = Anke esas posibla kampar en tendeyo. La preco por 2 personi+tendo+autom= obilo esas singlanokte 12 Euro. L'adreso di la tendeyo: 21 Chemin du Pont = de Rup=E9 F- 31200 Toulouse - telefono: (00 33) 5 61 70 07 35 On pova= s uzar l'omnibuso n=B0 59 ala urbocentro ( de halteyo Rup=E9-aden l' urbo, = halteyo Jeanne D'Arc),200 m a la konfereyo. Nia samideano surloke anke povo= s zorgar pri la rezervado. Kom turistala programo ni projetas guidadi e= n Toulouse ed exkurso dum un jorno a la historiala urbo Carcassonne. Me ja = hodie prejoyas rividar multa konocata samideani e vidar anke nova samideani= okazione dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse. Voluntez anuncar via partop= reno letre o per e-posto til maxim tarde la 05esma di junio 2005 che: Fran= k Kasper PF 73 01 28 D-90243 Nuernberg Germania e-posto: frank.kasper@i= do.li Anunc-formularon por plenigar od imprimar vu trovas ye: http://ww= w.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005/anunco.htm o kom "PDF"- do= kumento ye: http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005/anunc= o.pdf . Me ankorfoye memorigas: Ti, qui erste pos la 05esma di junio deci= dos partoprenar devos ipsa sorgar por chambro en la hotelo o loko che la ka= mpeyo! Kordiala saluti Frank Kasper prezidanto dil Germana Ido-Societo kun= aranjero dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1775 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70984 invoked from network); 27 May 2005 06:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2005 06:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2005 06:06:44 -0000 Received: from dsl-217-199-78-30.berlikomm.net [217.199.78.30] (helo=[217.199.78.30]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML2Dk-1DbXsA2BG5-0003tr; Fri, 27 May 2005 07:59:06 +0200 Message-ID: <42963100.9020402@idolinguo.de> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 22:26:40 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de Cc: Mailingliste ULI-Ido , Mailingliste Publikigo , Mailingliste Linguolisto , Mailingliste Idopagino , Mailingliste Idolisto , Mailingliste Ido- Rusa , Mailingliste Ido- Portugues , Mailingliste Geylesidist , Mailingliste Europa-diskuti References: <000301c55edc$0b06ac90$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> In-Reply-To: <000301c55edc$0b06ac90$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Eberhard Scholz Subject: Re: [germanlinguaidist] Anunc-periodo por l'internaciona Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse finos du semani pos nun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976; y=3YwldhNjsPVLav0-B5DRrt9r-a9NXHqVJUiwzZUxW2PX92Xx12ic X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Me tre regretas, kara amiki, ke multi en nia listi absolute ne respondas koncerne la invituro di Frank. Adminime il deziras recevar mesajo, en qua komunikesas la ne-partopreno. Ultre pro quo Espo-kongresi esas tante vizitata malgre la kustoza kontributi da la habitanti di omna kontinenti ? Me esas tristas pro la tacemeso ica-tema. Esperoza pri pluboniguri futura me salutas vi omni amikale Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1776 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62766 invoked from network); 28 May 2005 11:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2005 11:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2005 11:25:59 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D29C5B4C for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:55:56 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02303-06 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:55:45 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 526ED5B4D; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:55:44 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED295B4C for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:55:44 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 20:55:43 +0930 (CST) To: Mailingliste Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <000301c55edc$0b06ac90$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> Message-ID: References: <000301c55edc$0b06ac90$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Anunc-periodo por l'internaciona Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse finos du semani pos nun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Frank, Ye 2005-5-22 Frank Kasper skribis: > Me ankorfoye deziras memorigar l'idistaro, ke omna Idisti e > simpatieri dil linguo internaciona esas kordialege invitata asistar > l'internaciona Ido- renkontro ye fino di septembro 2005. La > renkontro eventos inter la 23esma di septembro (arivo) e la 27esma > di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). La sejorneyo esos en > la hotelo "Anatole France". Omna chambri en ol esas por 2 personi, > on pagas en Francia por chambro e ne por personi. > ... > Voluntez anuncar via partopreno letre o per e-posto til maxim tarde > la 05esma di junio 2005 che: > ... Me regretas ne respondir. Me ne povas asistar pro manko de pekunio. Me tre esperas ke multi asistos. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1777 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86488 invoked from network); 30 May 2005 10:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2005 10:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2005 10:44:59 -0000 Received: from Dial-In-217-9-33-100.berlikomm.net [217.9.33.100] (helo=[217.9.33.100]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1DchlQ2WE6-0002dx; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:44:56 +0200 Message-ID: <4299CAB3.7010407@idolinguo.de> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 15:59:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com References: <000301c55edc$0b06ac90$6400a8c0@privatdesktop> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Eberhard Scholz Subject: Re: [linguo] Anunc-periodo por l'internaciona Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse finos du semani pos nun X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976; y=yNXmdh-NDnbKEG4gxJ5H4dd4P1L7cce5Hde9LI_DzDGXioyhtvFG X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kar amiki Michael e David, naturale ne esas posibla voyajar a tante fora landi. Anke me ne posedas ca pekunio por asistar exemple konferi en Australia o Suda Korea. Ma pro via afableso me tre dankas vi - amikale Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1778 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64647 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2005 22:24:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2005 22:24:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep13-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.23) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2005 22:24:33 -0000 Received: from juan2 ([80.56.80.62]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050604222432.NTCE1736.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@juan2> for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:24:32 +0200 Message-ID: <01ce01c56954$2facf2c0$3e503850@juan2> To: Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:24:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Hans Stuifbergen" Subject: Fw: [germanlinguaidist] Betrifft: Fwd: Nomi geografiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939; y=cxEc_X3ivnlymMvWFB2dNMovbHpfv2FiiiHd0UU0nmSeN5k X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Che Germanlinguaidist, Holger questionas quale on Ido-lingue skribas "Dschibuti", "Djibouti", "Djiboeti", "Jibuti". Ka l' originalo di la nomo es nia literi od araba literi? Lore *transkripto esos dezirata, ka ne? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Kara Hans ed Eberhard, me dankas por helpo e nomi. Ma non trovas nomo por "Djibouti"... Lando havis nomo "Afar und Issa" (germana lingua) (franca linguo: Afars et Issas). (es "Afar en Issa" en la lingua de Hans?) Me pensas, "Djibouti" es un nomo bona ed "idala". [Hat jemand Einw�nde?] Ma, me dankas. Holger. --- In germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de, "Hans Stuifbergen" schrieb: > Kara Eberhard e Holger, > > Yen, quon me trovis ye l' arkivi di Linguolisto: > > > > --- Yen listo di nomi geografiala e nomi di populani (e poka lingui), > Ido-Germana. > > Robert C. > ______________ > > Abreviuri: > fl.=(pri) fluvio o rivero > mar.=(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo > mont.=(pri) monto o montaro > > Abisini.a : Abessinien > Abisini.an.o : Abessinier > Acor.i : Azoren > ... > Zimbabwe : Simbabwe > Zulu.o : Zulu > Zulu-land.o : Zululand From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1779 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94381 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2005 07:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2005 07:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2005 07:00:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACA2A5942 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:30:18 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17257-02 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:30:04 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B95735AB4; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:30:02 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9716B5942 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:30:02 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:30:02 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <01ce01c56954$2facf2c0$3e503850@juan2> Message-ID: References: <01ce01c56954$2facf2c0$3e503850@juan2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Fw: [germanlinguaidist] Betrifft: Fwd: Nomi geografiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Hans, On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, Hans Stuifbergen wrote: > Che Germanlinguaidist, Holger questionas quale on Ido-lingue skribas > "Dschibuti", "Djibouti", "Djiboeti", "Jibuti". > > Ka l' originalo di la nomo es nia literi od araba literi? Lore *transkripto > esos dezirata, ka ne? Me konjektas ke la vizata konsonanto "dsch", "dj", "j" esas sono quaze la Angla "j" (quan on povas signikar per "dj" en Ido, "dj" en la Franca, e, pro ke la Germana nule havas tala "j" ma egardas "j" kom "i", per "dsch" en la Germana). Segun ula dicionario la Angla uzas la formo "Djibouti" de la Franca. Me konjektas ke lo eventas nur pro ke Francia posedis la lando dum multa yari. Nur per "ou" la Franca povas atingar la sono di Ido "u", ma altra lingui uzas "u". Probable anke la Angla, en Altra dicionarii, uzas "Jibuti". Semblas a me esus absurda ne uzar "u" en Ido. Do, en Ido ol esez "Djibuti", segun me. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1780 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50911 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2005 10:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2005 10:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.26) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2005 10:24:09 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 03:24:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:24:04 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <01ce01c56954$2facf2c0$3e503850@juan2> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:24:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2005 10:24:05.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3287840:01C569B8] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Fw: [germanlinguaidist] Betrifft: Fwd: Nomi geografiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=jurd4OwtVmJnxMvynivOEO3zNXY9AuR_WaF2tcD66rs X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Hans Me preferas la formo Djibuti. Nam en Ido J havas alternativa pronunci, do la unesma D- klarigas la justa pronunco di la lando-nomo. Pluse la U (vice OU) indikas la justa vokal-sono. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonalty. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed." - Winston Churchill, 1930 >From: "Hans Stuifbergen" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [linguo] Fw: [germanlinguaidist] Betrifft: Fwd: Nomi geografiala >Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:24:33 +0200 > >Che Germanlinguaidist, Holger questionas quale on Ido-lingue skribas >"Dschibuti", "Djibouti", "Djiboeti", "Jibuti". > >Ka l' originalo di la nomo es nia literi od araba literi? Lore *transkripto >esos dezirata, ka ne? > >Saluti amikala, > >Hans St. >-- > >Kara Hans ed Eberhard, > >me dankas por helpo e nomi. Ma non trovas nomo por "Djibouti"... >Lando havis nomo "Afar und Issa" (germana lingua) (franca linguo: >Afars et Issas). (es "Afar en Issa" en la lingua de Hans?) >Me pensas, "Djibouti" es un nomo bona ed "idala". [Hat jemand Einw�nde?] > >Ma, me dankas. Holger. > > >--- In germanlinguaidist@yahoogroups.de, "Hans Stuifbergen" > schrieb: > > Kara Eberhard e Holger, > > > > Yen, quon me trovis ye l' arkivi di Linguolisto: > > > > > > > > --- Yen listo di nomi geografiala e nomi di populani (e poka lingui), > > Ido-Germana. > > > > Robert C. > > ______________ > > > > Abreviuri: > > fl.=(pri) fluvio o rivero > > mar.=(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo o bayo > > mont.=(pri) monto o montaro > > > > Abisini.a : Abessinien > > Abisini.an.o : Abessinier > > Acor.i : Azoren > > ... > > > Zimbabwe : Simbabwe > > Zulu.o : Zulu > > Zulu-land.o : Zululand > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1781 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43293 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2005 19:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2005 19:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2005 19:55:06 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.84.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.84] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Df1D6-000DAs-1k; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:55:04 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:58:03 +0100 Message-ID: <20056520583.676967@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=i6r882NW524EGFW1dUrtlK-HAsv8gmDZ4y-2eZKy9mQJEtw Kara Partaka, Do, me komprenas ke (1) la Hispana linguo ne havas vorto kun= la senco "substitucar" quan Pesch (Dicionario di la 10.000 radiki di la li= nguo universala Ido) definas tale: pozar (persono, kozo) en la plaso di alt= ra; (2) la Idala vorto "substitucar" esas "fals amiko" por Hispani, nam la = simila Hispana vorto "sustituir" signifikas "remplasar"; (3) la lexiko Ido-= Hispana eroras ube ol donas: "substituc-ar, sustituir". Pri la unesma punt= o, me povas dicar nur ke la Angla havas vorto kun tala senco ("to substitut= e"), quale anke Esperanto ("substitui: meti en la lokon au funkcion de"; "a= nstatauigi" =3D Idala "remplasar"), ma me ne savas bone pri altra lingui. = Pri la duesma punto, me propozas ke vu ne tro plendez, nam por parolanti di= l Angla linguo esas multa fals amiki en Ido. Exemple, "demandar" ne signifi= kas "to demand" (=3D postular), "akurata" ne signifikas "accurate" (exakta)= , "auditoro" ne signifikas "auditor", "balotar" ne signifikas "to ballot", = "brino" ne signifikas "brine" (aquo saloza), "buso" ne signifikas "bus" (au= tobuso), "busho" ne signifikas "bush" (arbusto), e tale pluse! Forsan altr= i povas indikar a ni pri la senco dil vorto simila a "substitucar" en altra= lingui. Quon signifikas Franca "substituer", Italiana "sostituire", German= a "substituieren"? Kordiale, Robert. idovalencia skribis: =A0Se tu adve= re deziras intelektar quale funcionas la Kataluna o la =A0Hispana ta-relate= , voluntez obliviar duminstante l'Angla linguo, ed =A0imaginez ke "remplasa= r" e "substitucar" esas verbi tote sinonima. =A0Tale, kande tu lektos "subs= titucar", interpretez ke ta verbo =A0equivalas kam "remplasar". From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1782 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71665 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2005 18:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2005 18:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2005 18:15:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 1265 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2005 18:15:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20050606181542.1263.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.48.124] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 20:15:42 CEST Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:15:42 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20056520583.676967@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=HBGqrZ3hUwTaYpugac6xXKZ7yLP5ipxH151MNgRT04hNzdWq3wwLgxE X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara Robert e cetera samforumani: Segun semblo, la verbo "substitucar" divenas maxim konfliktiva, e me kredas ke ol devus analizesar e komentesar da plura ek ni, maxim klaramente. Voluntez lektar, sube, plusa komenti da me. --- Robert skribis: > Kara Partaka, > > Do, me komprenas ke > (1) la Hispana linguo ne havas vorto kun la senco > "substitucar" quan Pesch (Dicionario di la 10.000 > radiki di la linguo universala Ido) definas tale: > pozar (persono, kozo) en la plaso di altra; "Substitucar" ya es "pozar persono o kozo en la plaso di altra". Tamen, la granda difero, e do la vera dilemo es ke, por ni, l'arivanto es ta qua substitucas, kontre ke l' departanto es ta qua substitucesas. Ni ya pozas persono en la plaso di altra: l'arivanto en la plaso dil departanto. L'unesmo substitucas la duesmo, e la duesmo substitucesas dal unesmo. "Substitucez (a) me" signifikas, por ni, "prenez mea plaso". Ka to es "remplasar"? Yes: anke por ni es lo. > (2) la Idala vorto "substitucar" esas "fals amiko" > por Hispani, nam la simila Hispana vorto "sustituir" > signifikas "remplasar"; > (3) la lexiko Ido-Hispana eroras ube ol donas: > "substituc-ar, sustituir". No; la lexiko Ido-Hispana ne eroras, se ni konsentas ke, en la Hispana, amba verbi esas sinonima: Ido: substitucar = H: sustituir, remplazar > Pri la unesma punto, me povas dicar nur ke la Angla > havas vorto kun tala senco ("to substitute"), quale > anke Esperanto ("substitui: meti en la lokon au > funkcion de"; "anstatauigi" = Idala "remplasar"), ma > me ne savas bone pri altra lingui. > > Pri la duesma punto, me propozas ke vu ne tro > plendez, nam por parolanti dil Angla linguo esas > multa fals amiki en Ido. Exemple, "demandar" ne > signifikas "to demand" (= postular), "akurata" ne > signifikas "accurate" (exakta), "auditoro" ne > signifikas "auditor", "balotar" ne signifikas "to > ballot", "brino" ne signifikas "brine" (aquo > saloza), "buso" ne signifikas "bus" (autobuso), > "busho" ne signifikas "bush" (arbusto), e tale > pluse! Nula plendo: linguo internaciona, forsan, darfas uzar vorti qui ne havas "exakte" sama signifiko ad omnu, ma nulkaze olti qui signifikas absoluta kontreajo ad uli, nam tale, ta linguo atentus grave kontre olua propra bazo, esenco ed skopo: la homal interkompreno. > Forsan altri povas indikar a ni pri la senco dil > vorto simila a "substitucar" en altra lingui. Quon > signifikas Franca "substituer", Italiana > "sostituire", Germana "substituieren"? Yes, me konkordas: esus utilega saveskar pri lo. > Kordiale, > > Robert. Maxim kordiale... P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * > idovalencia skribis: > �Se tu advere deziras intelektar quale funcionas la > Kataluna o la > �Hispana ta-relate, voluntez obliviar duminstante > l'Angla linguo, ed > �imaginez ke "remplasar" e "substitucar" esas verbi > tote sinonima. > �Tale, kande tu lektos "substitucar", interpretez ke > ta verbo > �equivalas kam "remplasar". - -- --- ---- ----- ------ ------- Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1783 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15141 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2005 20:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2005 20:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2005 20:53:57 -0000 Received: from gr.189.162.155.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.162.155] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DfObX-00028E-Af for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 21:53:52 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:57:27 +0100 Message-ID: <200566215727.919929@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <01ce01c56954$2facf2c0$3e503850@juan2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Fw: [germanlinguaidist] Betrifft: Fwd: Nomi geografiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=VGwt0RwAKG6jf_iDpauI_zolsRNoiAHRPffJzZKEZwIi2bo Kara Hans e Holger, Segun libro, la nomo di la lando esas de la sama nomo = di la urbo precipua, e venas de la vorto, en lokala linguo "Afar", por sort= o di plado quan on facas de specala palmo-fibri interplektita. Quale ja du= altri, me anke propozas "Djibuti" nam me trovis: A: Djibouti, Jibouti F: D= jibouti G: Dschibuti, H: Djibouti, Yibuti I: Gibuti Kordiale, Robert. H= ans Stuifbergen skribis: Che Germanlinguaidist, Holger questionas quale on= Ido-lingue skribas "Dschibuti", "Djibouti", "Djiboeti", "Jibuti". Ka l' o= riginalo di la nomo es nia literi od araba literi? Lore *transkripto esos d= ezirata, ka ne? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- Kara Hans ed Eberhard, me d= ankas por helpo e nomi. Ma non trovas nomo por "Djibouti"... Lando havis no= mo "Afar und Issa" (germana lingua) (franca linguo: Afars et Issas). (es "A= far en Issa" en la lingua de Hans?) Me pensas, "Djibouti" es un nomo bona e= d "idala". [Hat jemand Einw=E4nde?] Ma, me dankas. Holger. --- In german= linguaidist@yahoogroups.de, "Hans Stuifbergen" =A0schrieb: >= =A0Kara Eberhard e Holger, > >=A0Yen, quon me trovis ye l' arkivi di Linguo= listo: > > > >=A0--- Yen listo di nomi geografiala e nomi di populani (e po= ka lingui), >=A0Ido-Germana. > >=A0Robert C. >=A0______________ > >=A0Abrev= iuri: >=A0fl.=3D(pri) fluvio o rivero >=A0mar.=3D(pri) oceano, maro, gulfo = o bayo >=A0mont.=3D(pri) monto o montaro > >=A0Abisini.a : Abessinien >=A0A= bisini.an.o : Abessinier >=A0Acor.i : Azoren >=A0... >=A0Zimbabwe : Simbab= we >=A0Zulu.o : Zulu >=A0Zulu-land.o : Zululand Yahoo! Groups Links = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1784 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74037 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 15:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2005 15:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp15.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 15:12:37 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A9A5E7000099 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:12:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1525 (wwinf1525 [172.22.146.49]) by mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A6C9D7000086 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:12:36 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050607151236683.A6C9D7000086@mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <8078900.1118157156676.JavaMail.www@wwinf1525> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:12:36 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=1Q_0GjXNvi6iXlihl56P-mAGZ7II7AYCWbDN_eNUSqAS4II X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Partaka, Me predankas vu pro vua interesanta questioni pri nia helplin= guo e quale vu me kredas ke ol darfas esar maxim simpla e regularoza posibl= e. Do pri la vorto substitucar yen mea komenti: En la Franca-Ido dicionario= di L.Couturat et de Beaufront on trovas: - substituer: (tr.) substitucar (= ulu ad ulu, ulo ad ulo) - remplacer : (tr. : =C3=AAtre =C3=A0 la place de) = remplasar (prendre la place de ) remplas-eskar (qqn par qqn) remp= las-igar (ulu da ulu) difficile =C3=A0 remplacer : ne facile remplas(-= ig)-ebla Per la traduk-*programaro SYSTRAN me trovis: G: zu ersetzen F: su= bstituer A: to substitute H: substituir I: sostituire R: =D0=B7=D0= =B0=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D1=82=D1=8C G: zu ersetzen F: remplacer A: to= replace H: sustituir I: sostituire R: =D0=B7=D0=B0=D0=BC=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0= =B8=D1=82=D1=8C "substituir" semblus esar forsan eroro di SYSTRAN *programa= ro se vu mantenus ke la Hispana ne havas vorto kun senco "substitucar". Lor= e on povus kredar ke en GAFHIR linguo unike la Franca uzas senco diferanta = por "substitucar " e "remplasar". Paranteze me adjuntas hike la Rusa por lu= do ! ( me nek komprenas nek lektas la Rusa) En Franca "substituer" havas c= a du sequanta senci: 1) pozar persono o kozo en la plaso di altra : substit= uer X =C3=A0 Y =3D remplacer Y par X (substitucar X ad Y =3D remplasar Y = per X) En Franca on ne darfas dicar "substituez moi" ma "remplacez moi" 2= ) (jurisprudenco) apelar ulu ad heredo pose altra heredanto por ke ca lasto= ne povas alienar la havaji relativa a la substituco : "Il legasas sua om= na havaji a sua frato ed il substitucas sua nevo ad lu ". Existas anke la s= ubstantivo "substitu=C3=A9" (substitucato): ta qua esas heredanto per subst= ituco. On uzas anke " biens substitu=C3=A9s " : havaji transmisita per subs= tituco ( havaji substitucita) Me opinionas ke por decidar chanjar o supresa= r la vorto "substitucar", on devas ante savar quale la senco 2 tradukesas e= n la altra GAFHIR lingui. Pluse quale tradukar ca altra sequanta vorti ? -= substitut : (chose) substituc-ato;(magistrat) substituto En Franca "subst= itut" esas ta qua okupas la placo o la ofico di altro e particulare la judi= ci-isto remplasanta la prokuratoro generala ola prokuratoro di la republiko= . Do segun me esas plu justa havar substituc-anto vice substituc-ato e mem= substituto - substitutif : [adjektivo o substantivo : qua havas la propajo= de remplasar (uzata exemple en medecino)] substituc-al-a, -o Amikala salut= i a vu ed altri qua respondos. Loik > Message du 06/06/05 20:15 > De : = "Partaka" > A : IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.= com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet : [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Remplasar/S= ubstitucar > > Kara Robert e cetera samforumani: > > Segun semblo, la ver= bo "substitucar" divenas maxim > konfliktiva, e me kredas ke ol devus anali= zesar e > komentesar da plura ek ni, maxim klaramente. > Voluntez lektar, s= ube, plusa komenti da me. > > --- Robert skribis: > > > Kara Partaka, > >= > > Do, me komprenas ke > > (1) la Hispana linguo ne havas vorto kun la s= enco > > "substitucar" quan Pesch (Dicionario di la 10.000 > > radiki di la= linguo universala Ido) definas tale: > > pozar (persono, kozo) en la plaso= di altra; > > "Substitucar" ya es "pozar persono o kozo en la > plaso di = altra". Tamen, la granda difero, e do la vera > dilemo es ke, por ni, l'ari= vanto es ta qua > substitucas, > kontre ke l' departanto es ta qua substitu= cesas. > Ni ya pozas persono en la plaso di altra: l'arivanto > en la plaso= dil departanto. L'unesmo substitucas la > duesmo, e la duesmo substitucesa= s dal unesmo. > "Substitucez (a) me" signifikas, por ni, "prenez mea > plas= o". Ka to es "remplasar"? Yes: anke por ni es lo. > > > (2) la Idala vorto= "substitucar" esas "fals amiko" > > por Hispani, nam la simila Hispana vor= to "sustituir" > > signifikas "remplasar"; > > (3) la lexiko Ido-Hispana er= oras ube ol donas: > > "substituc-ar, sustituir". > > No; la lexiko Ido-Hi= spana ne eroras, se ni konsentas > ke, en la Hispana, amba verbi esas sinon= ima: > Ido: substitucar =3D H: sustituir, remplazar > > > Pri la unesma pu= nto, me povas dicar nur ke la Angla > > havas vorto kun tala senco ("to sub= stitute"), quale > > anke Esperanto ("substitui: meti en la lokon au > > fu= nkcion de"; "anstatauigi" =3D Idala "remplasar"), ma > > me ne savas bone p= ri altra lingui. > > > > Pri la duesma punto, me propozas ke vu ne tro > >= plendez, nam por parolanti dil Angla linguo esas > > multa fals amiki en I= do. Exemple, "demandar" ne > > signifikas "to demand" (=3D postular), "akur= ata" ne > > signifikas "accurate" (exakta), "auditoro" ne > > signifikas "a= uditor", "balotar" ne signifikas "to > > ballot", "brino" ne signifikas "br= ine" (aquo > > saloza), "buso" ne signifikas "bus" (autobuso), > > "busho" = ne signifikas "bush" (arbusto), e tale > > pluse! > > Nula plendo: linguo = internaciona, forsan, darfas uzar > vorti qui ne havas "exakte" sama signif= iko ad omnu, > ma nulkaze olti qui signifikas absoluta kontreajo ad > uli, = > nam tale, ta linguo atentus grave kontre olua propra > bazo, esenco ed sk= opo: la homal interkompreno. > > > Forsan altri povas indikar a ni pri la = senco dil > > vorto simila a "substitucar" en altra lingui. Quon > > signif= ikas Franca "substituer", Italiana > > "sostituire", Germana "substituieren= "? > > Yes, me konkordas: esus utilega saveskar pri lo. > > > Kordiale, >= > > > Robert. > > Maxim kordiale... > > > P A R T A K A > * * * * * * = * * > > > > idovalencia skribis: > > Se tu advere deziras intelektar qu= ale funcionas la > > Kataluna o la > > Hispana ta-relate, voluntez oblivia= r duminstante > > l'Angla linguo, ed > > imaginez ke "remplasar" e "substi= tucar" esas verbi > > tote sinonima. > > Tale, kande tu lektos "substituca= r", interpretez ke > > ta verbo > > equivalas kam "remplasar". [Non-text = portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1785 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38036 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 20:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2005 20:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 20:10:27 -0000 Received: from gr.189.164.85.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.164.85] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DfkOw-0002c2-GG; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:10:19 +0100 To: , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:13:50 +0100 Message-ID: <200567211350.284519@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050606181542.1263.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=sA_XmZOv5dMVdmAtKgvw2QzV9qkNDULSyBVbqihD6__0dM4 Kara Partaka, Vu skribis: =A0No; la lexiko Ido-Hispana ne eroras, se ni ko= nsentas ke, en la =A0Hispana, amba verbi esas sinonima: Ido: substitucar = =3D H: sustituir, =A0remplazar Tamen, segun vua antea expliko: (Ido) rempl= asar =3D (Hispana) remplazar, sustituir. Do, pro ke "substitucar" (=3D poz= ar (persono, kozo) en la plaso di altra) ne havas sama senco kam "remplasar= ", ol ne equivalas "sustituir, remplazar". Vu skribis anke: Nula plendo: = linguo internaciona, forsan, darfas uzar vorti qui ne havas "exakte" sama = signifiko ad omnu, ma nulkaze olti qui signifikas absoluta kontreajo ad u= li, nam tale, ta linguo atentus grave kontre olua propra bazo, esenco ed = skopo: la homal interkompreno. Bona punto. Tamen la difero inter, exemple,= "demandar" e "postular" (qui ne esas antonimi) ya esas sat granda ke ol ri= skas grava miskompreno. Esis famoza evento kande, segun memoro, Angla admir= alo recevis "demando" de Franca admiralo (en la Franca linguo la vorto esas= preske sama kam en Ido), e furioze refuzis, pensante ke ol esis (aroganta)= postulo. Se lu savabus ke ol esis nur (polita) demando, lu probable konsen= tus. Milito povas rezultar de tala miskompreno. Nun me esperas ke altri sk= ribos pri la senco di la vorti, en lia lingui, qua apektas quale "substituc= ar". Quon signifikas Franca "substituer", Italiana=A0"sostituire", Germana = "substituieren"? Kordiale, Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1786 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72026 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 00:42:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2005 00:42:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 00:42:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3EA5837; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:11:46 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00408-08; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:11:23 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7551B5AE4; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:29:46 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D025AD7; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:29:46 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:29:46 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200567211350.284519@SonyFX805> Message-ID: References: <200567211350.284519@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Tue, 7 Jun 2005, Robert wrote: > Bona punto. Tamen la difero inter, exemple, "demandar" e "postular" > (qui ne esas antonimi) ya esas sat granda ke ol riskas grava > ... La Angla verbo "postulate" signifikas pozar aden la diskuto teorie, kom bazo di plusa diskutado. La Angla vorto "demand" signifikas postular. Quale Robert ja skribis, esas en Ido multa falsa amiki pri la Angla. Oli existas en Ido pro ke li havas bona senco en altra naturala lingui. Ni ne superbeskez pri falsa amiki pri nia singla propra lingui. Ni konsentez ke la linguo Ido ja existas, ke ol ne restas por ni inventor itere. Ni komprenez ke ol ne, pro ke ol esas artificala, jacas avan ni kom ludo por rifacor da omnu qua diskonkordas pri to o co. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1787 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35742 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 01:12:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2005 01:12:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 01:12:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36D2581F for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:42:17 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00538-02 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:42:08 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B307D5825; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:42:06 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F89B581F for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:42:06 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:42:06 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: RE: [linguo] Fw: [germanlinguaidist] Betrifft: Fwd: Nomi geografiala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 On Sun, 5 Jun 2005, James Chandler wrote: > Me preferas la formo Djibuti. Nam en Ido J havas alternativa pronunci, do > la unesma D- klarigas la justa pronunco di la lando-nomo. Pluse la U (vice > OU) indikas la justa vokal-sono. Segun mea kompreno, "j" havas unika pronunco en Ido, quale la F. "juste", e tote ne quale la A. "juiced". Tale Dyer skribas. Do, "Jibuti" kom Ido necese donas ne-justa pronunco. Do me anke preferas la formo Djibuti. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1788 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3118 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 05:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2005 05:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 05:14:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2005 05:14:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2005 05:14:13 -0000 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:14:11 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 838 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "richsteven2000" Subject: Hiato inter du vokali X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=J1lblj-B9G6DCZC1gYcN14PocJ4OFys2NiHZhP7aa3c9TX_E5Y0ZQ4A X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara samideani, De Beaufront asertas ke ni ne timus hiato en Ido, do ni ne povas elizionar "di, de, o da" avan vokalo pro konfuzeso inter la tri vorti. Tamen me opinionas ke ni ne bezonas hiato inter du vokali, quin ni vidas tempope en nia linguo. Por pronuncar, ni povas interpozar konsonanto, kustume "w" o "y", quankam tre lejere. Exemple: manuo = manwo (KGD pag. 16), manua = manwa, bestii = bestiyi, biologiisto = biologiyisto, alio = alyo, heroo = herowo, antee = anteye edc. Me sentas ke hiato (`) interruptas la fluo di la sono. Exemple: manu'o, manu'a, besti'i, biologi'isto, ali'o, hero'o, ante'e, kun hiato o gloto-pauzo por me semblas leda. Interesante, en certena Pacifika lingui, la hiato esas vera konsonanto e probable esas perdita litero. La aeroportuo internaciona di Tahiti esas Fa'a'a. Amikale, R. Stevenson. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1789 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85159 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 22:20:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2005 22:20:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 22:20:54 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.221.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.221] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DgVOM-000Nqm-Mx; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:20:51 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:24:37 +0100 Message-ID: <200569232437.792144@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: RE: Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=tHNe4V_iFGWszxueK1691ZM4Oho65v64UhuTTZKjj_7x14Y Kara Eduardo, Forsan Ido ne bezonas la vorto "substitucar" ma la vorto lon= ge existas en Ido (certe ja en 1908), kun senco qua diferas de ta di "rempl= asar" - Ido havas tre poka sinonimi. Certe nulu esas koaktata uzar la vort= o se lu konsideras ke ol esas nenecesa o se lu ne bezonas ol. On darfas mem= propozar ke Ido tote ne bezonas la vorto "substitucar" od olua senco, e ke= la vorto "remplasar" suficas. Me opinionas ke amba vorti esas utila, ma m= ea opiniono havas nula specala importo. Ante propozar irga chanjo, esus tr= e utila savar quale la senco di "substitucar" esas expresata per altra ling= ui. Tre provizore, semblas ke la Angla, Franca e Germana havas du vorti/sen= ci, e ke la Hispana ed Italiana (e Portugalana, havas un, ma me vartas la v= orti di experti pri tala lingui. Segun dicionario, "tot en =F2c" (Institut= d'Estudis Occitans, 2002), la du vorti simila pri aspekto en la *Okcitana = havas, se me bone komprenas ol, sama senci quale en Ido (ultre un plusa sen= co, "cambiar"): rempla=E7ar - 1 cambiar. 2 prene la pla=E7a de substitu=EFr= - metre a la pla=E7a de Segun "Euro Dictionary" da Henri e Monique Goursa= u (Mosaik, 1989, nova edituro 1992): F: remplacer A: replace G: ersetzen H= : sustituir I: sostituire P: substituir F: substituer A: substitute G: ver= tauschen H: sustituir I: sostituire P: substituir To bone montras ke on mu= stas ne dependar ye tala lexiko por savar la exakta senco di vorto! Kordia= le, Robert. Eduardo A. Rodi skribis: Kara Robert, vu skribis: >=A0Nun = me esperas ke altri skribos pri la senco di la vorti, en lia lingui, qua ap= ektas quale "substitucar". Quon signifikas Franca "substituer", Italiana=A0= "sostituire", Germana "substituieren"? Me ne povas regretinde helpar vu t= arelate, ma me volas kontributar per altra questiono. Me sincere ne savas, = e pro to me questionas. Ka ne esus preferinda, ante saveskar quale agas alt= ra lingui DEFIRS pri ta afero, questionar Ido quon olu "bezonas"? Altravort= e, ka ni ne devus unesme questionar ni kad esas bezonata en Ido havar du vo= rti aparta por "to substitute" e "to replace"? Permisez a me komparar la d= u lingui naturala quin me konocas maxim bone, nome: la Angla e (kompreneble= ) la Hispana. Esas savata ke ica esas linguo sempre plu "longa" kam ita. En= texto Angla tradukata aden la Hispana, la tradukuro Hispana esas sempre 50= a 100 procente plu longa kam la tradukajo Angla. E to esas pro ke la Hispa= na ofte (ma ne sempre) "bezonas" plu vorti kam la Angla por dicar la sama i= dei. Ni ne havas, exemple, vorto por "pruntar", e ni bezonas do expresar ta= ideo per "demandar kom prestajo" (pedir prestado). La Angla, kontree ya ha= vas "to borrow". Por la vorto Angla "I wonder" la Hispana anke ne havas vor= to aparta e bezonas uzar "yo me pregunto" (me questionas me) qua esas fakte= la formo quan la vorto havas anke en Ido. Kontree, en la Hispana ni ne be= zonas repetadar la subjekto por singla verbo, pro ke en la Hispana, verbi h= avas maxim ofte dezinenci diferanta por singla persono gramatikala, quo des= necesigas indikar itere la persono per la pronomo korespondanta. L'Angla, k= ontree, semble preferas ne havar longega listo de deki de dezinenci aparta,= un por singla persono, tempo e modo, e simple indikas la persono per la pr= onomo subjektala. Or, quala linguo esas Ido? Quon olu "bezonas"? Evidente,= olu ya bezonas la vorto "pruntar", malgre ke olu povus expresar la sam ide= o per "demandar kom prestajo", ma ol ne volas vorto aparta por "to wonder".= Ed evidente ol anke bezonas subjekto netacita, pro ke olua dezinenci nulak= aze indikas la persono gramatikala. Do, kad ol "bezonas" havar la du vorti = "substitucar" e "remplasar" por la sama signifiki kam en la Angla? Forsan, = ta questionon ni bezonas respondizar unesme. E se ni decidas ke yes, lore n= i devus questionar ni quale altra lingui DEFIRS solvas la problemo. Irgaka= ze, me ne oblivias ke la Sekretario pri Aferi Linguala esas ne me ma vu, e = ke lo signifikas ne nur vua autoritato, ma anke vua kapableso por decidar k= a forsan mea kriterio amatora esas tote eroroza. Maxim respektoze, Eduard= o A. RODI. Enlaces a Yahoo! Grupos =A0 =A0 IdoCatalaOccitan-unsubscr= ibe@yahoogroups.com =A0 =A0 http://es.docs.yahoo.com/info/utos.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1790 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65657 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 01:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2005 01:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 01:15:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 27012 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2005 01:15:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20050610011540.27010.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.107.112] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:15:39 CEST Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:15:39 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200567211350.284519@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=c-gEHTeZ_QrKOo622nhIPQR4CtU3NJWx2nqhly0YCf1nQEwycLmWuIM X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Respektinda samlinguani: Unesme, malgre ke ni ne ja parklarigabas ic afero, me deziras gratitudar la tilnuna komenti da Loic, Michael (che Linguolisto), Eduardo e Bebson (che IdoCatalaOccitan). Danko pro via kunlaboro! Robert skribis: > Tamen, segun vua antea expliko: > (Ido) remplasar = (Hispana) remplazar, sustituir. > > Do, pro ke "substitucar" (= pozar (persono, kozo) en > la plaso di altra) ne havas sama senco kam > "remplasar", ol ne equivalas "sustituir, remplazar". Kara Robert: Se existus nula komplexeso pri l' hika temo, ni ya delonge solvabus ol; tamen, segun semblo, ni amba ne tote interkomprenas prie: ne mem per linguo internaciona quala Ido. Me sentas ke omno to quon me skribis til nun, havabas preske nul utileso... E lo es tale pro ke, pri "substitucar", mea aserti ya tote ruptas tua bazal Angle-skemo mental, dum ke le tua parkonfuzigas mea skemo. Me ja skribabis pri lo: H: Reemplazar = Sustituir Ido: Remplasar = H: Reemplazar, Sustituir Ni darfas ya tradukar "sustituir" aden "remplasar", ma quale ni tradukos "substitucar" aden la Hispana? Me anke dicis, ke "sustituir" ya es pozar persono o kozo en la loko di altra; tamen, la granda difero es ke ni "remplasas o substitucas" A da B, to es, ta qua departas da ta qua arivas. Pluse, konsiderez ke l' Hispane-parlanti komprenas la verbo "reemplazar", ma "sustituir" es ya la verbo quan on advere uzas por referar l'Idal "remplasar": olta es ya la vera ed autentika verbo populara. Me ne inventas problemo ne-existanta: me nur observas, konjektas ed atencigas. Omno komencis kande me skribis la yena frazo: "..., ma pose, ta numero (IIII) substitucesis da IV". Segun mea skemo, "remplasesis da IV", ank es justa. Voluntez lektar la sequanta frazo da Antonio Padilla che l' revuo "Adavane", numero 2: "Certe, la biomaso esas bona kandidato por substitucar la petrolo". Ico ne es simpla ed izolita anekdoto, ma tala frazin ni expektez sempre plu dal Hispane-parlanti. Ed ici expektez ya "stranja" e mis-kompreniganta uzo dil verbo "substitucar" da altri. Ka lo penvaloras? Se adminime la yena frazo, che l' KGD, es absolute korekta, me ya trovabos posibla voyo aden l'interkompreno, quan me esis queranta: (Adjektivo qualifikanta) "Por chanjar ol a substantivo samsenca suficas substitucar al dezinenco 'a' la vokalo 'o' (singulare), o la vokalo 'i' (plurale). "substitucar al dezinenco 'a' "... Ni substitucas AL dezinenco! (ta dezinenco ne arivas, ma departas!) > Bona punto. Tamen la difero inter, exemple, > "demandar" e "postular" (qui ne esas antonimi) ya > esas sat granda ke ol riskas grava miskompreno. Esis > famoza evento kande, segun memoro, Angla admiralo > recevis "demando" de Franca admiralo (en la Franca > linguo la vorto esas preske sama kam en Ido), e > furioze refuzis, pensante ke ol esis (aroganta) > postulo. Se lu savabus ke ol esis nur (polita) > demando, lu probable konsentus. Milito povas > rezultar de tala miskompreno. Quon me devas komprenar de tua vorti...? Ka tu propozas revizo relate l' verbo "demandar"? Ka tu justifikas l'existo di verbi, quala "substitucar" e "demandar", qui povas tote mis-komprenesar da multi ek ni, e mem, segun tu, efektigar milito? > Nun me esperas ke altri skribos pri la senco di la > vorti, en lia lingui, qua apektas quale > "substitucar". Quon signifikas Franca "substituer", > Italiana�"sostituire", Germana "substituieren"? > > Kordiale, > > Robert. Maxim amikal saluto ad omnu! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1791 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71253 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 09:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2005 09:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp15.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 09:58:09 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1504.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id AAAAB7000087 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:57:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1508 (wwinf1508 [172.22.146.51]) by mwinf1504.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A90CD7000081 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:57:55 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050610095755692.A90CD7000081@mwinf1504.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <27481011.1118397475687.JavaMail.www@wwinf1508> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:57:55 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=Qyoa5WlYUpD9yaVFLUvkcZX4JpQR_6rd5yfhhXNKX54-QpM X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Partaka, "Hispana-parolanti" vice "Hispane-parlanti " ! Ka ne ? Ko= rdiale Loik > Message du 10/06/05 03:15 > De : "Partaka" > A : IdoCata= laOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie =C3=A0 : > = Objet : [linguo] Remplasar/Substitucar > > Respektinda samlinguani: > ...= > Pluse, konsiderez ke l' Hispane-parlanti komprenas > la verbo "reemplaza= r", ma "sustituir" es ya la verbo > quan on advere uzas por referar l'Idal = "remplasar": > olta es ya la vera ed autentika verbo populara. ... [Non-t= ext portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1792 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21741 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 12:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2005 12:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly02.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.212) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 12:12:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 20985 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 12:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly02.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 12:12:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 29288 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 12:12:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.158]) ([195.23.194.158]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 12:12:30 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.6.6]); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:12:26 +0100 Message-ID: <008201c56db5$aa39a5a0$9ec217c3@VITERBO> To: References: <200569232437.792144@SonyFX805> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:48:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] RE: Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=xJN0CzHSaxFXcHzXz8T5I4gRK5QqinAcjo4n49aCEghnWiYe05IExw X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Kara Robert, En la Portugalana existas nur un verbo ('substituir') kun la tri Idala signifiki: remplasar, remplasigar, substitucar. Por distingar ca signifiki on simple chanjas la konstrukto dil rispektiva frazi: remplasigar vino per aquo: substituir vinho por �gua substitucar aquo a vino: substituir vinho por �gua la aquo remplasas la vino: a �gua substitui o vinho Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 08-06-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1793 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52612 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 18:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jun 2005 18:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.54) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 18:05:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 25049 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2005 18:05:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20050610180537.25047.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.35.217] by web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:05:37 CEST Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:05:37 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <27481011.1118397475687.JavaMail.www@wwinf1508> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Remplasar/Substitucar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=8DXd_aYfvM8bYhz1zBpCOP8bVLbV-nFen6uqlCI_9GRi5eraG2YoLjo X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Loik! --- LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, "Hispana-parolanti" vice "Hispane-parlanti " ! Ka ne ? Kordiale Loik > Message du 10/06/05 03:15 > De : "Partaka" > A : IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie � : > Objet : [linguo] Remplasar/Substitucar > > Respektinda samlinguani: > ... > Pluse, konsiderez ke l' Hispane-parlanti komprenas > la verbo "reemplazar", ma "sustituir" es ya la verbo > quan on advere uzas por referar l'Idal "remplasar": > olta es ya la vera ed autentika verbo populara. Me probos explikar quale' me komprenas it expresuro: Se me dezirabus skribar ol maxim oficale, me dicabus "Hispane-parolanti", ma ne "Hispana-parolanti", nam, segun me kredas, Hispane-parolanti equivalas "ti qui parolas Hispane", to es, ti qui parolas en la Hispana. Nia kompano Eduardo, por exemplo, es ya Hispane- parolanto, ma ne Hispana-parolanto, pro ke lu ne es Hispana, ma Arjentiniana. Ultre lo, anekdotale, kaze ke ni uzus expresuri quala "Hispana-parolanti", to semblus indikar ke existas personi Hispana qui parolas, kontre ke altri ek li ne parolas, sive pro muteso o deziro. Tu ya komprenos plu bone per la yena real expresuro: "Idista-parolanti". Kad existas Idisti qui ne parolas? Cakaze, me supozas ke esus Ido- od Ide-parolanti lo maxim justa: ti qui parolas Ido, od en Ido. Pri l'altra nuanco che mea expresuro "Hispane- parlanti", me simple kompresigis la vorto "parolanti": me kustumas indikar mea vorto-kompresiguri per apostrofi, ma cafoye me ne agis tale pro estetiko: "Hispane-'parlanti'". Me ne 'dubtas' ke omnu komprenis "Hispane-parlanti" Esis plezuro ri-salutar tu, Loik! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1794 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1132 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2005 10:01:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2005 10:01:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jun 2005 10:01:42 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D301E53C0 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:31:37 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06201-07 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:31:27 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D90425B54; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:31:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A9EC53C0 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:31:24 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:31:24 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Hiato inter du vokali X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Richard, On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, richsteven2000 wrote: > Kara samideani, > De Beaufront asertas ke ni ne timus hiato en Ido, do ni ne povas > elizionar "di, de, o da" avan vokalo pro konfuzeso inter la tri vorti. > Tamen me opinionas ke ni ne bezonas hiato inter du vokali, quin ni > vidas tempope en nia linguo. Por pronuncar, ni povas interpozar > konsonanto, kustume "w" o "y", quankam tre lejere. Exemple: > manuo = manwo (KGD pag. 16), manua = manwa, > bestii = bestiyi, biologiisto = biologiyisto, > alio = alyo, heroo = herowo, antee = anteye edc. Segun Dyer (Ido-Angla vortaro), ii=yi e.c. Do on pronuncas tale: linguo = lingwo bestii = bestyi, biologiisto = biologyisto e.c. Me obliviis (oblivyis) ka ja esas aprobita tala metodo pri oo, ee. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1795 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41579 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2005 16:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2005 16:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.29) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2005 16:58:22 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0206.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 39B5E1C001D5 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:58:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf0203 (wwinf0203 [172.22.133.30]) by mwinf0206.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 36C891C001D0 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:58:11 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050615165811224.36C891C001D0@mwinf0206.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <21905855.1118854691211.JavaMail.www@wwinf0203> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:58:11 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: elevar / (plu-)alt-igar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=_ejnB4Gyo4BlGe0LBiZTBPgE2HYv-hvxMqZvO_lKvqDIQ20 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara linguolistani, Segun me la verbo "elevar" (=3D "=C3=A9lever" en Fran= ca) ne devus existar en Ido pro ke existas la verbo (plu-)alt-igar. En Fran= ca "=C3=A9lever" signifikas pozar/igar plu alta. Exemple: - " =C3=89lever = d'un m=C3=A8tre le mur " : (plu-)alt-igar la muro de un metro En la diciona= rio Franca-Ido de L.Couturat e de Beaufront, on trovas anke la verbo "eleva= r" en la tradukuro di "relever" : relever (tr.) : (ri-)levar, elevar, plu-= levar, ri-erektar. Segun me ol devus remplasesar per (plu-)alt-igar. Vua a= vizo interesus me. Predanko pro vua komenti. Amikala saluti Loik [Non-text= portions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1796 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47666 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2005 22:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2005 22:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep16-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.25) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jun 2005 22:08:46 -0000 Received: from juan2 ([80.56.80.62]) by amsfep16-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050618220845.CUNT16988.amsfep16-int.chello.nl@juan2> for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:08:45 +0200 Message-ID: <007d01c57452$4ba14e50$3e503850@juan2> To: References: <1e.47a423b2.2fe5be7b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:08:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Hans Stuifbergen" Subject: Urbal plani X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939; y=PH29z3eP2pVVxDfgt8YASf9TA_E5tCI8F_jrsIEv9V7rqiA X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara amiki, Semblas existar konfuzeso pri "plano" e "mapo". Quon vi pensas pri la du vorti? Alfred Neussner skribis: "Ni prizus havar urbala mapo (ne "plano"). "plano" ist jemand der flach ist. ["plano" es ulu qua es plata, trad. HS] Kordiala saluti Alfred + Heidi" Robert Pontnau skribis: "Voluntez rigardar la dicionario da Marcal Pesch pagino 443 plano e pagino 356 mapo e tu vidos adminime , ke esas tanta selekti quanta Idisti. Ja tu reprochis a me 10 marki, quankam Couturat ipsa uzis ca vorto en kompleta gramatiko detaloza. Yes, ma la triesma senso di plano segun Mracel Pesch (Persiko) esas(pagino 445) Desegnuro qua reprezentas la dispozo di la kompozanti di urbo, di regiono, diu edifico kun indiko di la proporcioni e di la plaso relativa di la parti diversa." Qua povas helpar hike? Saluti amikala, Hans St. -- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1797 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73575 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2005 12:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jun 2005 12:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly03.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.213) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jun 2005 12:04:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 3922 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2005 12:04:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly03.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 19 Jun 2005 12:04:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 27738 invoked from network); 19 Jun 2005 12:04:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.175]) ([195.23.194.175]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 19 Jun 2005 12:04:13 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.7.8]); Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:04:09 +0100 Message-ID: <004001c574c6$ffc849f0$afc217c3@VITERBO> To: References: <1e.47a423b2.2fe5be7b@aol.com> <007d01c57452$4ba14e50$3e503850@juan2> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:15:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Urbal plani X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=FHCEADMB2u8kcdVitAPaDxR4JJ7VWIwdtak4cGTphf0ZrEgYI6MIMg X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves > Alfred Neussner skribis: > > "Ni prizus havar urbala mapo (ne "plano"). "plano" ist jemand der flach > ist. ["plano" es ulu qua es plata, trad. HS] > Kordiala saluti Alfred + Heidi" Me opinionas ke Neussner es tote justa ( e Pesch - eroroza) pri ca punto. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1798 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16024 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2005 19:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jun 2005 19:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jun 2005 19:43:19 -0000 Received: from gr.189.170.63.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.170.63] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DkSAw-000G2w-AN for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:43:19 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:46:26 +0100 Message-ID: <2005620204626.878181@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <007d01c57452$4ba14e50$3e503850@juan2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Urbal plani X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=cbZr9ct0mQA-yRHihCf8MzS3yH4BFEDKDKl_61X7yadxynw Kara Hans, Me konsentas kun G. Neves. Semblas a me ke esus kontre la inte= nco di Ido se "plano" havus mem un senco sama kam "mapo". Dyer (Ido-Angla,= p. 270) ne suportas Pesch ye lua aserto ke "plano" havas la triesma senco = quan vu citas ("Desegnuro qua reprezentas ..."). La lexiko Franca-Ido (191= 5), da sioro de Beaufront e profesoro Couturat, donas: plan (adj.) plana; = (sm. : geom.) plano; (dessin) mapo. Do, semblas esar klara ke tala desegnu= ro ("dessin") esas mapo, ne plano. Semblas ankorfoye ke Pesch esis tro has= toza e ne sat sorgoza. Kordiale, Robert. _________ Hans Stuifbergen sk= ribis: Kara amiki, Semblas existar konfuzeso pri "plano" e "mapo". Quon vi= pensas pri la du vorti? Alfred Neussner skribis: "Ni prizus havar urbala= mapo (ne "plano"). "plano" ist jemand der flach ist. ["plano" es ulu qua e= s plata, trad. HS] Kordiala saluti =A0Alfred + Heidi" Robert Pontnau skrib= is: "Voluntez rigardar la dicionario da Marcal Pesch pagino 443 plano e pa= gino 356 =A0mapo e tu vidos adminime , ke esas tanta selekti quanta Idisti.= Ja tu reprochis a me 10 marki, quankam Couturat ipsa uzis ca vorto en komp= leta gramatiko detaloza. Yes, ma la triesma senso di plano segun Mracel Pe= sch (Persiko) esas(pagino 445) Desegnuro qua reprezentas la dispozo di la k= ompozanti di urbo, di regiono, diu edifico kun indiko di la proporcioni e d= i la plaso relativa di la parti diversa." Qua povas helpar hike? Saluti a= mikala, Hans St. -- From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1799 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2923 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2005 07:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2005 07:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp15.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2005 07:12:04 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1504.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8DB3C7000083 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:11:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1523 (wwinf1523 [172.22.146.47]) by mwinf1504.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8373D7000081 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:11:58 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050621071158538.8373D7000081@mwinf1504.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <5702730.1119337918531.JavaMail.www@wwinf1523> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:11:58 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: parolar / paroloar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=bXlH_i7XE3jTOLb7IyJCrI_UbcHniZN-hcrfi-a3I8oAe3U X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara idolistani, KGD : =C2=AB L'iterado o frequeso di l'ago esas expresata = en Ido per derivado, nome per la sufixo -ad : pafar, pafadar, paroloar, par= oladar. =C2=BB (Progreso, IV, 390, noto.) Franca-Ido dicionario di L.Coutur= at/L. de Beaufront : (vb.) parolar Me kredas ke "paroloar" esus kopio-eroro= dil KGD pro ke ol donas "paroladar" vice "paroloadar". Kad ulu povus konfi= rmar lo a me ? Kordiala saluti e predanko. Loik [Non-text portions of th= is message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1800 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63430 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2005 08:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2005 08:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.40) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2005 08:00:10 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:00:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:00:05 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <5702730.1119337918531.JavaMail.www@wwinf1523> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:00:05 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2005 08:00:05.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C312620:01C57637] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] parolar / paroloar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=PCr1IJwm3820xGSFArp_dkxTIO_P-NOGP8A4QQdR4Lo X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Pro la shablono dil exempli, la korekta vorto povas esar nur: parolar pafar, pafadar, parolar, paroladar Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] parolar / paroloar >Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:11:58 +0200 (CEST) > >Kara idolistani, >KGD : « L'iterado o frequeso di l'ago esas expresata en Ido per derivado, >nome per la sufixo -ad : pafar, pafadar, paroloar, paroladar. » (Progreso, >IV, 390, noto.) >Franca-Ido dicionario di L.Couturat/L. de Beaufront : (vb.) parolar >Me kredas ke "paroloar" esus kopio-eroro dil KGD pro ke ol donas >"paroladar" vice "paroloadar". >Kad ulu povus konfirmar lo a me ? > >Kordiala saluti e predanko. >Loik > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1801 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53762 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2005 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2005 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp15.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2005 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E8A18700009F for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:09:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1523 (wwinf1523 [172.22.146.47]) by mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E6EEC7000085 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:09:57 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050621090957945.E6EEC7000085@mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <29348655.1119344997938.JavaMail.www@wwinf1523> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:09:57 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: F: Manifeste X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=FrCsoKLNx2lHHnExlixstEbSXTxB7r3Z2ugznPiAMveyNM8 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara idolistani, Me solicitas vua helpo por tradukar la franca vorto "manifeste". En Franca-Ido dicionario di L. Couturat/de Beaufront la tradukuro esas : "publika deklaro". Segun la franca Akademio "manifeste" esas publika skribajo per qua princo, Stato, partiso, importanta persono konocigas sua vidpunti pri tala od altra temo. Specala vorto esus preferinda a "publika deklaro" pro ke cakaze la "publika deklaro" esas tro generala segun me . Kun GAFI lingui me trovis: G: Manifest A: manifesto F: manifeste H: manifiesto I: manifesto Pluse en Espo: manifesto. Ma en Ido "manifest(ad)o" ja existas por l'ago di "manifestar". Mea propozo : Plularjigar l'uzado di la sufixo -ad por omna ago e ne unike ad ago durolonga o kontinue plurfoya quale definita dal KGD. Camaniere ni povus havar "manifesto" vice "publika deklaro" por tradukar la franca vorto "manifeste". Predanko pro vua respondo. Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1802 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17229 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2005 17:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2005 17:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.43) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2005 17:49:18 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:48:35 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.202 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:48:35 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <29348655.1119344997938.JavaMail.www@wwinf1523> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:48:35 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2005 17:48:35.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[72CEA6B0:01C57689] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] F: Manifeste X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=LdOaHnB0bMjCs8H-H5XWmj7rglbUu9Fq5flioM6JOaQ X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Quale on expansus la senco di manifest/o por kovrar e la senco di nuna manifest/ar, e la senco di "publika deklaro"? Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] F: Manifeste >Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:09:57 +0200 (CEST) > >Kara idolistani, >Me solicitas vua helpo por tradukar la franca vorto "manifeste". >En Franca-Ido dicionario di L. Couturat/de Beaufront la tradukuro esas : >"publika deklaro". >Segun la franca Akademio "manifeste" esas publika skribajo per qua princo, >Stato, partiso, importanta persono konocigas sua vidpunti pri tala od altra >temo. >Specala vorto esus preferinda a "publika deklaro" pro ke cakaze la "publika >deklaro" esas tro generala segun me . >Kun GAFI lingui me trovis: >G: Manifest >A: manifesto >F: manifeste >H: manifiesto >I: manifesto >Pluse en Espo: manifesto. >Ma en Ido "manifest(ad)o" ja existas por l'ago di "manifestar". >Mea propozo : Plularjigar l'uzado di la sufixo -ad por omna ago e ne unike >ad ago durolonga o kontinue plurfoya quale definita dal KGD. >Camaniere ni povus havar "manifesto" vice "publika deklaro" por tradukar la >franca vorto "manifeste". >Predanko pro vua respondo. >Loik > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1803 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53075 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2005 21:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jun 2005 21:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp15.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.84) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2005 21:12:53 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1502.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 449B17000935 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:12:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1515 (wwinf1515 [172.22.146.59]) by mwinf1502.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3BB607000098 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:12:42 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050621211242244.3BB607000098@mwinf1502.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <11442382.1119388362236.JavaMail.www@wwinf1515> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:12:42 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] F: Manifeste X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=q6dUGVe9HVdQm2vM0SNJCgnOlKi8z0ZECRgJlY682ajQyYA X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Danko pro vua respondo James ma semblas a me ke vu ne parlektis mea mesajo pro ke me facis la sequanta propozo: " Plularjigar l'uzado di la sufixo -ad por omna ago e ne unike ad ago durolonga o kontinue plurfoya quale definita dal KGD." Camaniere "manifesto" remplasus "publika deklaro" qua esas ido-traduko di sequanta GAFHI vorti: G: Manifest A: manifesto F: manifeste H: manifiesto I: manifesto ed Espo: manifesto. Manifestado esus lore l'ago di verbo manifestar. Fine per ca plularjigado di la senco di sufixo -ad, la sufixi -ur ne plu esus necesa. Exemple kun "asociar" on havus : asociado vice asocio ed asocio vice asociuro Se ne qua esas vua traduko pri " Le manifeste du parti communiste de Karl Marx et Engels " ? Le mea esus : " La manifesto di komunista partiso di Karl Marx e Engels " Amikale Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1804 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35475 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2005 06:42:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jun 2005 06:42:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.31) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2005 06:42:08 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:42:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:42:04 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <11442382.1119388362236.JavaMail.www@wwinf1515> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:42:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jun 2005 06:42:05.0126 (UTC) FILETIME=[80E19660:01C576F5] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] F: Manifeste X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=OZgPWh0KnnKIC5PRz0uDKcesB4t5X45xMKy5_dQ3Byo X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Loic Me komprenas, ke vu volas tradukar F. manifeste per manifest/o en Ido, ma ridefinar sufixo por ta skopo semblas a me absurda. Ni mustus ridefinar la radiko manifest-, por inkluzar la senco "publika deklaro". Ido es tre naturale-aspektanta linguo, ma ne omna vorto povas similesar omna fonto-linguo. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] F: Manifeste >Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:12:42 +0200 (CEST) > >Danko pro vua respondo James ma semblas a me ke vu ne parlektis mea mesajo >pro ke me facis la sequanta propozo: > >" Plularjigar l'uzado di la sufixo -ad por omna ago e ne unike ad ago >durolonga o kontinue plurfoya quale definita dal KGD." > >Camaniere "manifesto" remplasus "publika deklaro" qua esas ido-traduko di >sequanta GAFHI vorti: >G: Manifest >A: manifesto >F: manifeste >H: manifiesto >I: manifesto > >ed Espo: manifesto. > >Manifestado esus lore l'ago di verbo manifestar. > >Fine per ca plularjigado di la senco di sufixo -ad, la sufixi -ur ne plu >esus necesa. >Exemple kun "asociar" on havus : asociado vice asocio ed asocio vice >asociuro > >Se ne qua esas vua traduko pri " Le manifeste du parti communiste de Karl >Marx et Engels " ? >Le mea esus : " La manifesto di komunista partiso di Karl Marx e Engels " > >Amikale >Loik > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1805 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43908 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2005 09:01:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2005 09:01:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.146) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2005 09:01:20 -0000 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050627090119.LVXZ21916.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:01:19 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.189] by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050627090119.DMRB16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.189]> for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:01:19 +1200 To: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:01:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050627090119.DMRB16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.189]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] Urbal plani X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=RqTFwgNYR5g2ooY-3MKCPTbWpKbDTfj5zsqh_M6_soxsI1za4wJCUwU X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara samideano Gon=E7alo Neves, La vorto =93plana=94 semblas efektigar kont= roverso. En la precipua Europala lingui, =93plano=94 kustume signifikas =93= projeto=94, quankam en la Usa-hispana dicionario =93plano=94 =3D plata surf= aco ma anke =3D =93mapo=94. Forsan Pesch donas ta duopla senco, nam mapo e= s sur plana papero. Interesante de Beaufront uzas =93reform-plano=94 en la = KGD (pag. 150). En angla la kaosala espelado fakte helpas: plane =3D plana= ed anke raboto. plain =3D plana tero o sen bela o nekomplikita. plan =3D p= rojeto. plano- =3D tipo di lenso kun un plana surfaco. Me sentas ke ni dev= as uzar =93plano=94 =3D projeto, e vice =93plana=94 aceptar =93plata=94, qu= ale ni vidas en Esperanto. Amikale, Richard Stevenson. > > From: "Gonc= alo Neves" > Date: 2005/06/19 Sun PM 11:15:36 GMT+12:00 >= To: > Subject: Re: [linguo] Urbal plani > >= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1806 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42040 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2005 13:51:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jun 2005 13:51:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly06.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.216) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jun 2005 13:51:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 14172 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2005 13:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.193]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly06.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 27 Jun 2005 13:51:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 16178 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2005 13:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VITERBO) ([195.23.180.101]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt01.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 27 Jun 2005 13:51:27 -0000 Message-ID: <000201c57b1f$521779c0$65b417c3@VITERBO> To: References: <11442382.1119388362236.JavaMail.www@wwinf1515> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:31:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] F: Manifeste X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=9n4oRBvC1vRR09qJPiH3YufF7c7n1I6-6yhmNfkN572DH3lYI-nYmw X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:12 PM Subject: Re: RE: [linguo] F: Manifeste > Danko pro vua respondo James ma semblas a me ke vu ne parlektis mea mesajo > pro ke me facis la sequanta propozo: > > " Plularjigar l'uzado di la sufixo -ad por omna ago e ne unike ad ago > durolonga o kontinue plurfoya quale definita dal KGD." > > Camaniere "manifesto" remplasus "publika deklaro" qua esas ido-traduko di > sequanta GAFHI vorti: > G: Manifest > A: manifesto > F: manifeste > H: manifiesto > I: manifesto > > ed Espo: manifesto. > > Manifestado esus lore l'ago di verbo manifestar. > > Fine per ca plularjigado di la senco di sufixo -ad, la sufixi -ur ne plu > esus necesa. > Exemple kun "asociar" on havus : asociado vice asocio ed asocio vice > asociuro Kara Loic, > Se ne qua esas vua traduko pri " Le manifeste du parti communiste de Karl > Marx et Engels " ? > Le mea esus : " La manifesto di komunista partiso di Karl Marx e Engels " Anke me tradukus tale. Tamen to ne signifikas ke on mustas modifikar la senco dil sufixo -ad od exilar la sufixo -ur. Suficas traktar la vorto 'manifesto', en ca e simila kuntexti, kom abreviuro di 'manifesturo'. Tale on agas pri multa vorti en la normala linguo. Pri ca temo skribis Couturat (citita da Juste en "Idala forumi", p. 59): [ni darfas] «derivar direte substantivo de verbo kande» "per extenso preske neevitebla, di qua nia lingui donas sencese exempli", "la substantivo signifikas la esencal e nemediata rezultajo di l' ago, qua esas ofte nedicernebla de l' ago ipsa". «Exempli (inter mult altri): dekreto, izolo, kolekto, produkto, testamento, traduko, vundo, argumento, fumo, odoro» [paroli da Ciuturat inrer " "", paroli da Juste inter « »] Al supra exempli on povus adjuntar 'exerco', 'manko' inter mult altri. La linguo ne es kodexo, ne es equaciono: ol adaptesas al bezoni dil vivo e dil parolanti. Kordiale, Gonçalo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1807 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58437 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2005 14:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jun 2005 14:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp15.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.84) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jun 2005 14:24:02 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0726B700009C for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:24:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1509 (wwinf1509 [172.22.146.52]) by mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 041737000082 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:24:01 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050628142401168.041737000082@mwinf1503.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <18493573.1119968641009.JavaMail.www@wwinf1509> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:24:01 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Questioni pri la linguo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=Lf7mbPtFhuwx3Dpp0UFpr6eKPGLFigixFN4DsInfBW404X0 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Goncalo, Granda danko pro vua respondo pri Manifesto/Publika Deklaro, qua donas a me l'oportuneso dicar mea vidpunto pri internaciona helpo-linguo. Segun me internaciona helpo-linguo devas esar maxim facila posible e havar aspekto maxim naturala posible se ol ambicias konkurencar l'Angla kom internaciona linguo. Olua facileso dependas de olua regulozeso Ido havas plu naturala aspekto kam Esperanto, ma havas malgre to kelka ne-regulozesi qua desfaciligas olua lernantado. Depos nun du yari e sis monati ke me lernas Ido, me havas sempre desfacileso kun la sufixi -aj ed -ur. Desfortune me ne havas la kompetenteso di linguisto ! Ma me es certa ke se on analizus omna mesaji di nia forumi, on povas trovar facile multa erori pri l'uzado di ca sufixi e mem kelkafoye da aktiva idisti! Ito pensigas a me ke devas existar vera problemo od adminime desfaliceso qua riskos dekurajigar multa komencanti. Ma forsan no ! Kad esus me qua eroras ? Exemple: En Franca la verbo "peindre" havas du sensi: 1) kovrar ulo kun kolori 2) reprezentar ulu od ulo kun linei e kolori Esas la kuntexto qua permisas komprenar la senco. Ma en Ido on havas du verbi por distingar ca du senci 1) indutar 2) piktar Me serchis sen suceso la substantivo ("peinture" en Franca) qua permisas piktar/indutar per pinselo. Me kredis ul-instante ke esis piktajo/indutajo ma me eroris segun la KGD. Fakte: - Ne esas pikturo/induturo pro ke pri la sufixo -ur, me citas la KGD : "Ol soldesas al radiko por distingar (kande to esas necesa) la produkturo dil ago de la ago ipsa, expresata dal verbo. Ex: konstrukturo, pikturo, skulturo,..., e. c., la kozo obtenita per konstruktir, piktir, skultir, e. c." - Ne esas piktajo/indutajo pro ke pri la sufixo -aj, me citas la KGD : " Aplikata a radiko di verbo transitiva, -aj indikas la objekto pasiva di la ago (tote ne la rezultajo); lore ol equivalas -ataj (Progreso, III, 482.) e remplasas participo pasiva : .../... piktajo = (ne pikturo ma) pikt(at)ajo, to quo esas piktata (personi, kozi, e. c.); konstruktajo = (ne konstrukturo ma) konstrukt(at)ajo, to quo esas konstruktata (la petri e ligni o fero, e. c., uzata por konstruktar);" - Ne esas pikto/induto qua esas l'ago di piktar/indutar Do Questiono 1: Quale nomizar exakte ca substantivo ? Altra exemplo, me komprenas la frazo "me piktas personi, kozi (piktajo)", ma ne la frazo "me konstruktas petri, ligni, fero (konstruktajo)" pro ke en Franca on dicas "me konstruktas per petri, ligni o fero". Questiono 2 : Kad konstruktajo esar materi-ajo ( trovita en la Franca-Ido dicionario) ? Me dubitas de la vera avantajo di sufixo -ur se segun la KGD quan me citas : "En mult okazioni la rezultajo dil ago ne distingesas reale del ago ipsa : dekreto, parolo, diskurso, pretendo, abandono, aserto, afirmo, e. c. Lore la sufixo -ur evidente ne esas uzenda." Pluse A.Juste adjuntis a ca listo "kolekto, produkto, testamento, traduko, vundo, argumento, fumo, odoro." e vu adjuntas anke : "exerco", "manko" inter altri. Lore me kredas ke esus plu simpla adoptar sen excepto la regulo sequanta: - aplikar simpla derivado a la verbo por la rezultajo dil ago - aplikar la sufixo "-ad" por l'ago di verbo irge quala esas olua durado o frequeso Pri la sufixo -aj aplikata a la verbi transitiva o ne transitiva, me dubitas anke de olua vera avantajo. Segun la KGD quan me citas : " Aplikata a radiko di verbo transitiva, aj indikas la objekto pasiva di la ago (tote ne la rezultajo); lore ol equivalas -(at)aj (Progreso, III, 482.) e remplasas participo pasiva :" .../... Aplikata a radiko di verbo netransitiva -aj- indikas la subjekto (necese, pro la naturo dil verbo); ol equivalas -(ant)aj e remplasas participo aktiva, pro ke ne existas pasivo en verbo netransitiva : " Se -aj remplasas participo pasiva segun la KGD, lore segun me -aj = -at/-it/-ot ! Se -aj remplasas participo aktiva segun la KGD, lore segun me -aj = -ant/-int/-ont ! Exemple on trovas en la Franca -Ido dicionario : - contenu : konten(at)ajo - contenant : kontenant(aj)o Questiono 3: Pro quo ne havar kontenato e kontenanto qua esus plu simpla ? Lore semblas a me ke la sufixo -aj ne esus necesa pri la verbi transitiva o ne transitiva. Fine me tre gratidus vu o ti qui povus respondar a mea questioni ed avizar me pri la reformeti quan me propozas. Kordiala saluti de Bretonia (Francia) Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1808 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43048 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2005 20:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2005 20:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.54) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jul 2005 20:05:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 64225 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jul 2005 20:05:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20050702200531.64223.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.35.6] by web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:05:31 CEST Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 22:05:31 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=lQ9zs9yCJcI4XgsMd9W4tfb5qLJOGnff8HgYePiDcStZqraVSch2U3k X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Samidean amiki: Malgre ke, che l'inter-reto, la dicionario Franca-Ido donas, kom nomo geografial, la vorto "Kaukazio", me ya suspektas, ke ol es tote ne-korekta en Ido... Segun la ret-vortari Ido-Franca ed Ido-Italiana, e mem segun nia Wikipedio, "Kaukazia" e "Kaukazo" esus la justa formi: me supozas, ke olca por nomizar la iba montaro, ed olta por referar olua tota teritorio. Lo esus konvenanta, ke ni klarigeskez ic afero... Kad ulu savas o konjektas prie? Maxim amikal saluto! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1809 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93224 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2005 20:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jul 2005 20:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jul 2005 20:57:11 -0000 Received: from gr.189.164.115.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.164.115] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DpBVL-0002zv-2Q; Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:55:55 +0100 To: , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 21:48:34 +0100 Message-ID: <200573214834.295282@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050702200531.64223.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=lCwFox4iule7DFgLWsAx69ceZWKTkeZiXp_rjn6eDLgzT_E Kara Partaka, Segun mea trovi: Kaukazo =3D A. (the) Caucasus, Caucusus Mo= untains; F. (le) Caucase; G. Kaukasus; H. C=E1ucaso; I. Caucaso; R. Kavkaz = Kaukazia =3D A. Caucasia; F. (la) Caucasie; G. Kaukasien; H. ?; I. Caucasi= a; R. ? Forsan vu povas donar la Hispana tradukuro mankanta por "Kaukazia"= ? Forsan ulu altra povas donar la Rusa tradukuro? Kaukazo esas montaro. K= aukazia esas la regiono cirkum ta montaro. Robert. __________ Partaka sk= ribis: Samidean amiki: Malgre ke, che l'inter-reto, la dicionario Franca-= Ido donas, kom nomo geografial, la vorto "Kaukazio", me ya suspektas, ke ol= es tote ne-korekta en Ido... Segun la ret-vortari Ido-Franca ed Ido-Itali= ana, e mem segun nia Wikipedio, "Kaukazia" e "Kaukazo" esus la justa formi:= me supozas, ke olca por nomizar la iba montaro, ed olta por referar olua t= ota teritorio. Lo esus konvenanta, ke ni klarigeskez ic afero... Kad ulu s= avas o konjektas prie? Maxim amikal saluto! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * = * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.co= m/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1810 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64637 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 01:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 01:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 01:20:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 9913 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jul 2005 01:20:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20050704012028.9911.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.47.73] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 03:20:27 CEST Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:20:27 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200573214834.295282@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=EvdYkmm6bHyDi4UFM4cbBi3eWWupXgTRnhPpGx_zw1NKNExhnCX2yu8 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Hola, Robert! Danko pro tua detaloza ed interesiva respondo! Malgre ke, en la Hispana, on prefere uzas la formo "C�ucaso", e por la montaro e por la regiono, ank es uzebla la vorto "Caucasia", quan me lektis plur-foye. Ni trovas "Cauc�sia" mem en la Kataluna! Do, Ido: Kaukazia. H: Caucasia, C�ucaso (regiono) Pri la Rusa linguo, me ne savas kad ol posedas plusa nomo, ultre "Kavkaz", por referar la tota teritorio Kaukazial... Forsan "Kavkazya"... Certe, nia Finlandan samideano, Arto Moisio, savas kad en la Rusa existas plusa nomo por ta regiono. Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * --- Robert skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Segun mea trovi: Kaukazo = A. (the) Caucasus, Caucusus Mountains; F. (le) Caucase; G. Kaukasus; H. C�ucaso; I. Caucaso; R. Kavkaz Kaukazia = A. Caucasia; F. (la) Caucasie; G. Kaukasien; H. ?; I. Caucasia; R. ? Forsan vu povas donar la Hispana tradukuro mankanta por "Kaukazia"? Forsan ulu altra povas donar la Rusa tradukuro? Kaukazo esas montaro. Kaukazia esas la regiono cirkum ta montaro. Robert. __________ Partaka skribis: Samidean amiki: Malgre ke, che l'inter-reto, la dicionario Franca-Ido donas, kom nomo geografial, la vorto "Kaukazio", me ya suspektas, ke ol es tote ne-korekta en Ido... Segun la ret-vortari Ido-Franca ed Ido-Italiana, e mem segun nia Wikipedio, "Kaukazia" e "Kaukazo" esus la justa formi: me supozas, ke olca por nomizar la iba montaro, ed olta por referar olua tota teritorio. Lo esus konvenanta, ke ni klarigeskez ic afero... Kad ulu savas o konjektas prie? Maxim amikal saluto! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1811 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51330 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2005 20:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2005 20:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2005 20:37:16 -0000 Received: from gr.189.172.43.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.172.43] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DpXgp-0001C6-0b; Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:37:15 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:40:22 +0100 Message-ID: <200574214022.740248@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <001201c56910$b2a1ab60$3e503850@juan2> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Pri *deltaplano, e.c. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=RUH2WOms7vfQjzBFOPWErn-eR2h185BtD4twaMj6N3c044w Inter multa posibla nova vorti me havas "*deltaplano o pend-*glidilo?". Ye= n du posiblaji por havar en Ido equivalanto por: A: hang-glider F: deltapl= ane, aile libre G: Drachen [Flugger=E4t], Flugdrachen H: ala delta, aerodes= lizador I: aquilone, deltaplano R: del'taplan La maxim komuna formo esas "= deltaplano", vorto simila ad "aeroplano" e "biplano". Tamen, esas du proble= mi: (1) existas anke "normala" aeroplano qua havas ali kun la formo di del= to, e konseque qua esas apte nomizebla simile. Me ne savas quale lingui dif= eranta nomas ol (Angle: "delta-wing"). (2) semblas ke la esenco di la (nor= male sen-motora) tre mikra aeroplano ne esas alo en formo di delto, e forsa= n future ol povus havar anke altra formo. La esenco esas la lejereso e mikr= eso di la aparato, tale ke persono (o kelkfoye du personi) aviacas pendante= de ol, nam ol esas tre mikra e necese lejera, e probable la persono mustas= ofrar minima rezisto al aero. Generale ne esas motoro, ma forsan ne sempre= . Kontraste, semblas ke la sequanta mikra aeroplano sempre havas motoro: = A: microlight aircraft, microlight F: ultra-l=E9ger-motoris=E9 G: Ultraleic= htflugzeug H: avi=F3n ultraligero, ultraligero I: ultraleggero [apparecchio= per il volo] R: ? Triesma simila aparato (*parapent-ilo?) esas: A: canop= y [parachute] F: aile [...?] G: Gleitschirm H: casquete [...?] I: ? R: ? u= zata por la aktiveso (forsan *parapent-ar, -o?): A: paragliding F: parapent= e G: Gleitschirmfliegen H: parapente [pr=E1ctica deportivo], planeador [...= ?] I: parapendio R: ? On povas vidar la desfacileso trovar apta vorti por = Ido kande la mondo bezonas distingar multa nova sporti ed aparati. Robert.= ___________________ Alfred Neussner skribis: La vorto "deltaplano" povu= s esar diskutobazo, ma on mustas komparar, quon on dicas pri to ye l`import= anta lingui. Saluti =A0A.Neussner From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1812 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83433 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 14:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 14:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 14:27:33 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 14:27:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 14:27:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:27:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050704012028.9911.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2314 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=zIVsA7hjUisBkkdSdiWyz4pLd02NnVoqxBtz4dDzIEozVECfq6s X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Hola samideani! Da, da ya vladeyu russkim jazykom =96 Yes, me savas Rusa l= inguo. En Rusa existas nur un vorto por la montaro e l' oblasto*: Kavkaz. = Salutante Arto --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Partaka wrote: > Hola, Robert! > > Danko pro tua detaloza ed interesiva r= espondo! > > Malgre ke, en la Hispana, on prefere uzas la formo > "C=E1uca= so", e por la montaro e por la regiono, ank es > uzebla la vorto "Caucasia"= , quan me lektis plur-foye. > Ni trovas "Cauc=E0sia" mem en la Kataluna! > = > Do, Ido: Kaukazia. H: Caucasia, C=E1ucaso (regiono) > > Pri la Rusa lin= guo, me ne savas kad ol posedas plusa > nomo, ultre "Kavkaz", por referar l= a tota teritorio > Kaukazial... Forsan "Kavkazya"... > > Certe, nia Finlan= dan samideano, Arto Moisio, savas > kad en la Rusa existas plusa nomo por t= a regiono. > > Saluti e til balde! > > > P A R T A K A > * * * * * * * *= > > > > --- Robert skribis: > > > -------------------= -------------- > Kara Partaka, > > Segun mea trovi: > > Kaukazo =3D A. (t= he) Caucasus, Caucusus Mountains; F. > (le) Caucase; G. Kaukasus; H. C=E1uc= aso; I. Caucaso; R. > Kavkaz > > Kaukazia =3D A. Caucasia; F. (la) Caucasi= e; G. > Kaukasien; H. ?; I. Caucasia; R. ? > > Forsan vu povas donar la Hi= spana tradukuro mankanta > por "Kaukazia"? Forsan ulu altra povas donar la = Rusa > tradukuro? > > Kaukazo esas montaro. > > Kaukazia esas la regiono = cirkum ta montaro. > > Robert. > __________ > > > Partaka skribis: > > = Samidean amiki: > > Malgre ke, che l'inter-reto, la dicionario Franca-Ido = > donas, kom nomo geografial, la vorto "Kaukazio", > me ya suspektas, ke ol= es tote ne-korekta en Ido... > > Segun la ret-vortari Ido-Franca ed Ido-I= taliana, e mem > segun nia Wikipedio, "Kaukazia" e "Kaukazo" esus > la just= a formi: me supozas, ke olca por nomizar la > iba montaro, ed olta por refe= rar olua tota teritorio. > > Lo esus konvenanta, ke ni klarigeskez ic afer= o... > Kad ulu savas o konjektas prie? > > Maxim amikal saluto! > > > P = A R T A K A > * * * * * * * * > > > Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA= -OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ > > > > _= _____________________________________________ > Renovamos el Correo Yahoo!= > Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad > http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1813 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8583 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 14:34:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 14:34:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 14:34:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 14:34:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jul 2005 14:34:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 14:34:07 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 182 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=G5CUVZ9RpVFzUB4cE9VyhSmSsZFjaJXQeLSBZc-Yf0ayLFstMT4 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "Artto Moisio" wrote: > = Da, da ya vladeyu russkim jazykom =96 Yes, me savas Rusa linguo. Ide: yazy= k, ne jazyk. Exkuzeto. =96 Arto From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1814 Return-Path: X-Sender: izummm@mail.ru X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88207 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 20:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 20:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx6.mail.ru) (194.67.23.26) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 20:26:37 -0000 Received: from [213.27.43.5] (port=4907 helo=[213.27.43.5]) by mx6.mail.ru with esmtp id 1Dpu02-000Evr-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:26:36 +0400 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 00:26:21 +0400 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional Organization: ? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1442331573.20050706002621@mail.ru> To: Arto Moisio In-Reply-To: References: <20050704012028.9911.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: iZoommm Reply-To: iZoommm Subject: Re[2]: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=183493896; y=s8prOSGWprRRA5f2zV1h0b10oIdu3QQXgUwFQ7afFfGQrg Saluti, amiki! Me povas nur afirmar aserto da Arto - en Rusa esas sola vorto por amba idei: Kavkaz. Tamen esas ankore Severniy Kavkaz (Norda Kaukazio) ed Zakavkazie (regioni trovata plu sude de Kaukaza montaro) Amikale, iZoommm AM> Hola samideani! AM> Da, da ya vladeyu russkim jazykom � Yes, me savas Rusa linguo. AM> En Rusa existas nur un vorto por la montaro e l' oblasto*: Kavkaz. AM> Salutante Arto AM> --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Partaka wrote: >> Hola, Robert! >> >> Danko pro tua detaloza ed interesiva respondo! >> >> Malgre ke, en la Hispana, on prefere uzas la formo >> "C�ucaso", e por la montaro e por la regiono, ank es >> uzebla la vorto "Caucasia", quan me lektis plur-foye. >> Ni trovas "Cauc�sia" mem en la Kataluna! >> >> Do, Ido: Kaukazia. H: Caucasia, C�ucaso (regiono) >> >> Pri la Rusa linguo, me ne savas kad ol posedas plusa >> nomo, ultre "Kavkaz", por referar la tota teritorio >> Kaukazial... Forsan "Kavkazya"... >> >> Certe, nia Finlandan samideano, Arto Moisio, savas >> kad en la Rusa existas plusa nomo por ta regiono. >> >> Saluti e til balde! >> >> >> P A R T A K A >> * * * * * * * * >> >> >> >> --- Robert skribis: >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Kara Partaka, >> >> Segun mea trovi: >> >> Kaukazo = A. (the) Caucasus, Caucusus Mountains; F. >> (le) Caucase; G. Kaukasus; H. C�ucaso; I. Caucaso; R. >> Kavkaz >> >> Kaukazia = A. Caucasia; F. (la) Caucasie; G. >> Kaukasien; H. ?; I. Caucasia; R. ? >> >> Forsan vu povas donar la Hispana tradukuro mankanta >> por "Kaukazia"? Forsan ulu altra povas donar la Rusa >> tradukuro? >> >> Kaukazo esas montaro. >> >> Kaukazia esas la regiono cirkum ta montaro. >> >> Robert. >> __________ >> >> >> Partaka skribis: >> >> Samidean amiki: >> >> Malgre ke, che l'inter-reto, la dicionario Franca-Ido >> donas, kom nomo geografial, la vorto "Kaukazio", >> me ya suspektas, ke ol es tote ne-korekta en Ido... >> >> Segun la ret-vortari Ido-Franca ed Ido-Italiana, e mem >> segun nia Wikipedio, "Kaukazia" e "Kaukazo" esus >> la justa formi: me supozas, ke olca por nomizar la >> iba montaro, ed olta por referar olua tota teritorio. >> >> Lo esus konvenanta, ke ni klarigeskez ic afero... >> Kad ulu savas o konjektas prie? >> >> Maxim amikal saluto! >> >> >> P A R T A K A >> * * * * * * * * >> >> >> Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! AM> http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! >> Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad >> http://correo.yahoo.es AM> Yahoo! Groups Links -- Best regards, Igor mailto:tax117@sha.rnd.su From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1815 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17561 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 20:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 20:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 20:29:36 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.117.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.117] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Dpu2q-0008rX-C0; Tue, 05 Jul 2005 21:29:29 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 21:31:48 +0100 Message-ID: <200575213148.038831@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <000f01c5804b$6a477e60$2bbdfac1@ordi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Re: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=SLZsQZqlvNWjdrQuJljRQ0DgbLnWOJXJO-g-St8aOmPxs4A Kara Jean, La formo "Kaukazio" trovesas en la sequanta vortari: 1. Ido-Fra= nca (sama autori, 1908). Ibe trovesas anke "Francio", "Germanio", "Champany= o", e.c. 2. Franca-Ido (de Beaufront e Couturat, 1915). Ibe trovesas anke "= Andoro" e "Brunsvigo". La formo "Kaukazia" trovesas en la sequanta vortari= : 3. Ido-Germana (Feder & Schneeberger, 1919). 4. Germana-Ido (Auerbach, 19= 22). 5. Ido-Madyara (Bakonyi, 1922). 6. Ido-Franca (Guignon, 1924; kun kons= tato ke la linguala formo esas oficala ). 7. Ido-Angla ed Angla-Ido (Dyer, = 1924; kun konstato ke la linguala formo esas oficala). 8. Ido-Italiana/Ital= iana-Ido (Lusana, 1924; kompilita en konformeso kun la maxim nova decidi di= l Akademio Idista; prefaco da L. de Beaufront) En lua Raporto (1937), Roze= (pagino 25) citas decido 1426 dil Akademio (Mondo IX, 121) por, vice plu f= rua formi: "Andora, Badenia, Biskaya, Brunsvig, Bukharia, Champania, Gallia= , Kaukazia, Korsika, Martinika (M. XI 70), Uruguay". Do, on darfas tote qu= iete uzar la formo oficala, "Kaukazia" (vice la antea formo Esperantatra, "= Kaukazio"), quale anke "Andora", "dubitar", "artilerio" ed altra formi e vo= rti adoptita pos 1915. Amikale, Robert. ___________________ Jean Martign= on skribis: =A0Pro ke mea dicionario indikas Kaukazio, me duros uzar Kaukaz= io. =A0Cetere on dicas anke Maroko e Libano. Nur se nova dicionario =A0impr= imesos segun decido da plura kompetenta akademiani, me uzeskos =A0Kaukazia.= Notinde anke ke la formo : ank, uzata da nia samideano =A0esas heredajo di= Occidental/Interlingue evanta de la tempo kande la =A0adepti di Interlingu= e, celita en nia rangi, esperis kunfuzigar nia =A0amba idiomi. Kordiale for= e de Kaukazio. =A0=A0JM <<<:>>> From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1816 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29815 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2005 21:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2005 21:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jul 2005 21:22:46 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B195C1F for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:52:43 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00364-01 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:52:29 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 50F805C19; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:52:27 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E4F5BF6 for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:52:27 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 06:52:26 +0930 (CST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Arto Moisio wrote: > --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.= com, "Arto Moisio" wrote: > >> Da, da ya vladeyu russkim jazy= kom =96 Yes, me savas Rusa linguo. > > Ide: yazyk, ne jazyk. Exkuzeto. =96 = Arto O forsan, Ide: linguo; Ruse: iazyk.... ka ne? :) [Non-text portions = of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1817 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7850 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2005 04:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2005 04:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.187) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2005 04:55:53 -0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050706045551.DFAF11967.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:55:51 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.190] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050706045550.OTFZ1606.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.190]> for ; Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:55:50 +1200 To: Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:55:50 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050706045550.OTFZ1606.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.190]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri *deltaplano, e.c. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=SyuYVAwFOI-jkgdWZIcTkIzTSocSIFFH9AkbDeBaETxA2uFE-UPL-uY X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Robert e amideani, Yes, la termino =93delta-alo=94 en angla kustume es= la formo di l=92ali en aeroplani kom la =93Vulcan=94 e la =93Concorde=94. = Quankam =93deltaplano=94 semblas kelke internaciona, existas posibla konfuz= igo. Interesante, sugestita vorto in la Raporto di 1937 es *glidar qua sign= ifikas movado tra l=92aero, dum ke existanta vorto =93glitar=94 implikas m= ovado sur surfaco quale glacio. Se ni facas vortopa tradukuro de l=92angla= =93hang glider=94, ni emfazas ke la gambi di la fluganto pendas adinfre ka= nde lu atingas la tero. (=93Pendar=94 povas havar senco di moyeno mortigar= !). La vorto =93suspendar=94 anke existas en Ido, ma plu longa. Konseque n= i povas havar *pend-glidilo o *suspend-glidilo, quankam en la moderna mondo= , =93-ilo=94 es plu apta por implemento, specale per manuo. Me sugestas *pe= nd-glidoro o *suspend-glidoro, (=93-or=94 es vice angla e germana =93-er=94= , o franca =93-eur=94). Amikale, Richard S. > > From: Robert > Date: 2005/07/05 Tue AM 08:40:22 GMT+12:00 > To: , > Linguolisto > Su= bject: [linguo] Pri *deltaplano, e.c. > > [Non-text portions of this m= essage have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1818 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22687 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2005 16:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2005 16:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2005 16:13:37 -0000 Received: from Dial-In-217-199-68-129.berlikomm.net [217.199.68.129] (helo=[217.199.68.129]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwh2-1DqCW93vZO-0005J7; Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:12:57 +0200 Message-ID: <42CB8A0A.3000005@idolinguo.de> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 09:36:42 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Eberhard Scholz Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976; y=Q92xoqN4B0H7D2miKBCuNHT4L5ORQ45VJ37MescoJhFz4twjhC8a X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kar amiki, un plusa opiniono da me : Ido: linguo , Rusa: yaz*i*k En Germania ni havas du vorti: La montaro nomesas Kaukasus e la landaro ibea esas Kaukasien. Saluti de Eberhard >> >> >>>Da, da ya vladeyu russkim jazykom � Yes, me savas Rusa linguo. >>> >>> >>Ide: yazyk, ne jazyk. Exkuzeto. � Arto >> >> > >O forsan, Ide: linguo; Ruse: iazyk.... ka ne? :) > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1819 Return-Path: X-Sender: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74924 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2005 22:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jul 2005 22:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO brando.numericable.net) (80.236.3.116) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jul 2005 22:22:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 1109 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2005 22:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO landloic) ([81.220.109.19]) (envelope-sender ) by brando.numericable.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 6 Jul 2005 22:21:42 -0000 Message-ID: <000e01c5827a$02c345e0$136ddc51@landloic> To: Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 00:28:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Loic Landais" Subject: Planar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=nX5nbEYQJv6HPP2M7P1D_28OJqpAMClcdcEygrwi7Izel4c X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara linguolistani, Richard Steven mencionis la vorto "*glidar" qua segun = la Raporto di 1937 da J.Roze signifikus movado tra l'aero dum ke la vorto "= glitar" implikas movado sur surfaco kom la glacio. Hodie ni havas: glitar = =3D F: glisser, A: slide, H: deslizar, I: scivolare , G: gleiten glitfluga= r =3D F: planer: A: glide, H: planear, I: planare, G: ? glitflug-ilo (od *= -oro) =3D F: planeur: A: glider, H: planneador, I: aliante, veleggiatore, G:= Segelflieger, Segelflugzeug Ed anke: *aeroglit-ilo (od *-oro) =3D F: a=E9= roglisseur, A: hovercraft, H: aerodeslizador, I: ?, G: Luftkissenboot Ni = povas remarkar ke glitar venas de Germana (gleiten) e *glidar venas de Angl= a (glide). Do se ni adoptus *glidar, on havus : - *glidar vice glitflugar = - *glid-ilo (od *-oro) vice glitflug-iloo (od *-oro) ma lore *aeroglid-ilo = (od *-oro) vice *aeroglit-ilo (od *-oro) ne semblas bona. Altra posibleso = esus la verbo "planar" qua esas segun me plu internaciona kam glitflugar o = *glidar. Se on adoptus la verbo planar, on havus : - planar vice glitflugar= - plan-ilo (od *-oro) vice glitflug-ilo (od *-oro) ed *aeroglit-ilo (od *= -oro) sempre existas. Ca maniere on povus dicar: " la planilo (*planoro)= e la *deltaplano planas ma l'aeroplano flugas " En franca on dicas anke = : "faire du planeur" =3D "faire du vol =E0 voile" (seglo-flugar) " On seg= loflugas per planilo (*planoro) " Vua komenti esos bonvenanta Amikala salu= ti Loik From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1820 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99534 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2005 12:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2005 12:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60819.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.227) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2005 12:33:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 36791 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jul 2005 12:32:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20050707123212.36789.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60819.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 05:32:12 PDT Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 05:32:12 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000e01c5827a$02c345e0$136ddc51@landloic> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [linguo] Planar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308; y=O6Ibdwyr3l5nBYD21Tk9t_j8BlV0NBY5owi4DzKethb7qpPSZA X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable La problemo esas ke la radiko "plan-" ja havas altra signifiko. Fakte, me= prizus povar uzar la substantivo *plano por speco di projeto, exemple en *= planlinguo. Don Loic Landais skribis: Altra = posibleso esus la verbo "planar" qua esas segun me plu internaciona kam gli= tflugar o *glidar. Se on adoptus la verbo planar, on havus : - planar vice = glitflugar - plan-ilo (od *-oro) vice glitflug-ilo (od *-oro) ed *aeroglit= -ilo (od *-oro) sempre existas. Ca maniere on povus dicar: " la planilo = (*planoro) e la *deltaplano planas ma l'aeroplano flugas " En franca on d= icas anke : "faire du planeur" =3D "faire du vol =E0 voile" (seglo-flugar)= " On segloflugas per planilo (*planoro) " ---------------= ------------------ --------------------------------- Sell on Yahoo! = Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items. [Non-text portions of this messag= e have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1821 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66165 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2005 19:55:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jul 2005 19:55:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jul 2005 19:55:52 -0000 Received: from gr.189.170.89.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.170.89] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DqcTC-0000G6-2t for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:55:38 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:58:40 +0100 Message-ID: <200577205840.182885@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=iRNIBofjGEiA12QA_NZj1vv1Iv6KE7add_9wromSQ5ivxuw Kara Arto, Danko. Kande me kolektas tradukuri, me sempre serchas ne simpl= e "vorto" ma anke, ube necesa, indiko pri la senco qua korespondas, en la l= inguo koncernata, al vorto Idala. Sen tala indiko, uzanto ne savus exakte l= a senco dil vorto Idala. Exemple, se on skribus en lexiko Kaukazo - Kavkaz= Kaukazia - Kavkaz to ne helpus la uzanto savar qua esas la difero (o mem k= e existas difero) inter la vorti Idala. Quale indikar en lexiko Ido-Rusa l= a senci dil Idala vorti? Ka tale: Kaukazo - Kavkaz [gorj] Kaukazia - Kavka= z [region, oblast'] Noto: me uzas "j" ne quale en Ido ma por la 29ma liter= o dil Rusa alfabeto - ta qua aspektas quale du literi, simila a "bI". Kord= iale, Robert. _______________ Arto Moisio skribis: =A0Hola samideani! = =A0Da, da ya vladeyu russkim jazykom =96 Yes, me savas Rusa linguo. =A0En = Rusa existas nur un vorto por la montaro e l' oblasto*: Kavkaz. =A0Salutan= te Arto From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1822 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61537 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2005 08:59:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2005 08:59:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2005 08:59:19 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2005 08:57:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2005 08:57:24 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:57:22 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200577205840.182885@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 614 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Kaukazia X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=1ViiUF4p4nx8cA-AlUQd7X5NUl-l08sWTkGiEri5-6pQDxTnrag X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara Robert (Exkuzo pro tarda respondo: me vakancis altraloke sen interretala kontakto) En mea dika Rusa-Fina vortaro kun mil pagini esas skribita tale: Kavkaz 1. gorj Kaukasus; 2. oblast' Kaukasia. En Fina linguo ni nomizas la Rusa litero "bI" kom "dopa i" Salutante, Arto --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Quale indikar en lexiko Ido-Rusa la senci dil Idala vorti? Ka tale: > > Kaukazo - Kavkaz [gorj] > Kaukazia - Kavkaz [region, oblast'] > > Noto: me uzas "j" ne quale en Ido ma por la 29ma litero dil Rusa alfabeto - ta qua aspektas quale du literi, simila a "bI". > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1823 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64281 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2005 19:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2005 19:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2005 19:00:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 76307 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jul 2005 19:00:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20050712190027.76305.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.61.107.104] by web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jul 2005 21:00:27 CEST Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 21:00:27 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Vorti ofical exter nia vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=BPu93ALcmNNEuSQpYqzQZ5IWDj8wvdqUxY8KU5PMakYEIAHffUDsOp4 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Estimata samlinguani: Me deziras saveskar, kad existas nuna listo di vorti ofical en Ido, en olqua on povas trovar, ensemble, la toteso de "nova" radiki exter nia vortari... Me savas pri la "Lexiko" da Camiel de Cock, e pri la "Raporto" da Janis Roze (olca, kelke konfuziganta, segun me), ma me ne tote komprenas o kontrolas, kad omna "nova" formi, apariganta ibe, oficaligesis o ne... Me supozas ke, kaze ke ne ja existas, ni devus posedar ya, kompleta e fidinda listo di nova ed ofical Ido-vorti: omna vorti qui, til nun, ne ja eniris nia vortari, ma darfanta, nuntempe, inkluzesar che olci. Predanko por via respondo ed intereso! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1824 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10762 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2005 20:53:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jul 2005 20:53:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 20:53:03 -0000 Received: from gr.189.172.58.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.172.58] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DsoDu-0002c7-KL; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:52:55 +0100 To: , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:55:02 +0100 Message-ID: <200571321552.599527@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050712190027.76305.qmail@web26604.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Vorti ofical exter nia vortari X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=_PVc35Ni4lt4k52Foz5TgjmzfIqD5sTXdj7sauBO_arqmEo Kara Partaka, Me sentas bezono respondar a vua questiono ... Tamen, me kre= dis ke me ja mencionis la laboro facar "kompleta" listo, qua evidente inklu= zus vorti plu nova kam la granda vortolibri. Ne existas (me nultempe vidis= ) kompleta listo. Me esforcas facar ol, od adminime facar preske kompleta l= isto - esus ne-evidenta kande omna vorto esus trovita e la listo esus kompl= eta! La tasko esas plu desfacila kam, ante komenco, me supozis. Exemple, e= sas diferi pri ula vorti inter la vortolibri, e kelkfoye vorti en uli qui n= e esas en altri. Esas kelka vorti en la dicionario da Pesch quin me ne trov= as en irg altra vortolibro (e por qui me havas nula tradukuri). Esas anke e= n Pesch kelkfoye anciena formi ja remplasita lor lia ri-imprimo. Esas kelka= vorti en ula vortolibri qui semblas esar imprim-erori, o qui preske certe = esas imprim-erori. On mustas komparar omna fonti. Pri la Raporto da Roze, = ol havas du parti. La unesma parto kontenas vorti oficale adoptita (ma en o= rdino nur mi-alfabetala), e la duesma parto kontenas diversa propozi (di qu= i nur poki pose adoptesis). Me ja traktis diversa vortolibri (Ido-Franca, = Ido-Germana anke Roze, de Cock, e.c.) e nun me traktas Dyer, probable la ma= xim richa fonto. Sen savar qua esas omna la vorti en la vortolibri, on ne p= ovas sempre savar kad partikulara vorto esas inter li od exter li (ecepte s= e on ya savas ke ol adoptesis plu recente). Ankore traktenda pos Dyer esas= Cornioley e multa numeri di "Progreso". Kordiale, Robert. ____________ = Partaka skribis: Estimata samlinguani: Me deziras saveskar, kad existas = nuna listo di vorti ofical en Ido, en olqua on povas trovar, ensemble, la t= oteso de "nova" radiki exter nia vortari... Me savas pri la "Lexiko" da Ca= miel de Cock, e pri la "Raporto" da Janis Roze (olca, kelke konfuziganta, s= egun me), ma me ne tote komprenas o kontrolas, kad omna "nova" formi, apari= ganta ibe, oficaligesis o ne... Me supozas ke, kaze ke ne ja existas, ni d= evus posedar ya, kompleta e fidinda listo di nova ed ofical Ido-vorti: omna= vorti qui, til nun, ne ja eniris nia vortari, ma darfanta, nuntempe, inklu= zesar che olci. Predanko por via respondo ed intereso! P A R T A K A * *= * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.= groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ _____________________________= _________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguri= dad http://correo.yahoo.es Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1825 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96733 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2005 23:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2005 23:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.57) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jul 2005 23:20:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 45360 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jul 2005 23:20:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20050716232042.45358.qmail@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.53.76.100] by web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:20:42 CEST Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:20:42 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Azerbaijan/Azerbaidjan X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=6fStIyzTvMHPitTTIcxiDK8UsUoCAKhkQgAjDFogWoVjtLWmjMiQIX4 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto ad omnu! Me trovis la formo "Azerbaijan", kom lando-nomo, che l' vortaro Ido-Italiana, e che nia Ido-Wikipedio (ank en la ret-pagini dil asociuro "Ido-France")... Tamen, omno semblas indikar, ke l' maxim justa formo, en Ido, esus "Azerbaidjan"... Ni ja posedas altra lando-nomi quala, por exemplo, Kambodja, Fidji, Tadjikistan, e mem Djibuti... Ca-kaze, esus anke konvenant uzar la digrafo "dj", vice simpla litero "j", quan on ya sonigas diferante... Ka ni do konkordas pri la formo "Azerbaidjan"...? Predanko e til balde! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1826 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66895 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2005 09:59:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2005 09:59:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2005 09:59:13 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.194.2]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 41409840 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:02:16 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:59:15 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507171159.15973.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: od inkluziva? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=zYmXAZuQd2vN2NLS6ZWjNk4OzhhM-8RwQJLSirvTi1LyALkQ68hh X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Se me bone komprenas, nia konjunciono "od" es "od exkluziva" (quale en la maxim multa lingui). "Se pluvos o se esos kolda, me metos boti" signifikas do ke me metos boti kande: 1. pluvos 2. esos kolda ma *ne* kande esos kolda *e* pluvos samtempe, nam "od" es exkluziva. Por indikar la "od" inkluziva ni devas skribar "ed/od". Me ne trovas diskuti pri ca aspekto e pro to me volas questionar hike, se on ja parolis pri adoptar vorto por "od inkluziva". Segun me esus utila e komoda havar tala vorto, por ne sempre dicar "ed/od" (quo es desoportuna). Me ja pensis pri "u(d)" nam ol sustenesas da kelka lingui ed es simila a nia konjuncioni: e(d), o(d). Forsan co omna es superlogikoza e konseque evitinda en omnadia linguajo? Altra lingui ne havas vorto por "od inkluziva", pro quo ni bezonus ol? Precipue nam nia linguo es supera ad altra? Ni havas altra vorti, qui ofte ne havas equivalanto en multa lingui, nam ni facas distingo inter: dio e jorno matine e morge filii e infani (Mea filii ne plus esas infanti.) Multa lingui ne havas ta posiblesi. Ni anke havas pronomo "lu" qua ne existas en multa lingui. Pro to me pensas ke "od inkluziva" anke povus esar oportuna. Ka ca temo ja esis diskutita? Se yes, voluntez indikar me ibe me trovos informi. Ol multe interesas me. kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1827 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4486 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2005 22:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2005 22:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2005 22:50:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 48666 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2005 22:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.66.35 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jul 2005 22:50:09 -0000 To: Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 00:50:15 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c58b21$e6e44b70$2342fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200507171159.15973.SPW@vo.lu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] od inkluziva? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057; y=gSzGgACAfwjXAuln1ccHgSwXBX61xBj6uYyrl5lLWBvtvQ X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Voluntez lektar la mesaji di ta forumo: 1040, 1041, 1043 e 1046. -----Mensaje original----- De: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de Steve Walesch Enviado el: domingo, 17 de julio de 2005 11:59 Para: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [linguo] od inkluziva? Se me bone komprenas, nia konjunciono "od" es "od exkluziva" (quale en la maxim multa lingui). "Se pluvos o se esos kolda, me metos boti" signifikas do ke me metos boti kande: 1. pluvos 2. esos kolda ma *ne* kande esos kolda *e* pluvos samtempe, nam "od" es exkluziva. Por indikar la "od" inkluziva ni devas skribar "ed/od". Me ne trovas diskuti pri ca aspekto e pro to me volas questionar hike, se on ja parolis pri adoptar vorto por "od inkluziva". Segun me esus utila e komoda havar tala vorto, por ne sempre dicar "ed/od" (quo es desoportuna). Me ja pensis pri "u(d)" nam ol sustenesas da kelka lingui ed es simila a nia konjuncioni: e(d), o(d). Forsan co omna es superlogikoza e konseque evitinda en omnadia linguajo? Altra lingui ne havas vorto por "od inkluziva", pro quo ni bezonus ol? Precipue nam nia linguo es supera ad altra? Ni havas altra vorti, qui ofte ne havas equivalanto en multa lingui, nam ni facas distingo inter: dio e jorno matine e morge filii e infani (Mea filii ne plus esas infanti.) Multa lingui ne havas ta posiblesi. Ni anke havas pronomo "lu" qua ne existas en multa lingui. Pro to me pensas ke "od inkluziva" anke povus esar oportuna. Ka ca temo ja esis diskutita? Se yes, voluntez indikar me ibe me trovos informi. Ol multe interesas me. kordiale, Steve Yahoo! Groups Links ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1828 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34441 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2005 04:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2005 04:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2005 04:02:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2005 04:02:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2005 04:02:12 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:02:09 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 124 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: teroristala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=WalN0qTS0RWtTurLYq35WhsU5gskMAUhmOvwso2gwJtmxAkT23g X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe La adjektivo 'naturala' es naturala ma multa adjektivi (ekzemple 'teroristala') ne esas naturala. Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1829 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33641 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2005 04:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2005 04:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.66) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2005 04:16:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2005 04:16:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2005 04:16:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2005 04:16:13 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:16:11 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 132 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: exemple X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=71eSpz0e_jttW9na7XvOXD7im4kYt4AMwxJ90n4cqE4EGRn9O7s X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe La adjektivo 'naturala' es naturala. Ma multa adjektivi ne esas naturala (exemple 'europala', 'historiala', 'mondala', . . .) From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1830 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81565 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2005 08:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2005 08:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2005 08:43:38 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.194.2]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 41497859 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:46:26 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:43:23 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <000001c58b21$e6e44b70$2342fed5@alcali> In-Reply-To: <000001c58b21$e6e44b70$2342fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200507181043.23759.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] od inkluziva? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=4Cg_SvcvISPOTgoPtrgJ4PT0UeDmGVyBcqqKh8v412YDkdA6znVX X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch On Monday 18 July 2005 00:50, Krayono wrote: > Voluntez lektar la mesaji di ta forumo: 1040, 1041, 1043 e 1046. To es extreme interesiva. Fakte me anke ja pensis pri "xor" (en Ido ni povus skribar "xod" por eXkluziva OD) se "od" esus inkluziva en Ido. Ma por me semblis evidenta ke ol es exkluziva (pos konsultir KGD). Regretinde la mesaji 1040, 1041, 1043 e 1046 ne sate explikas la afero. Tamen me dankas vu por indikir me ta mesaji. Forsan ca temo nun es rivivigita e kelka plusa personi povas indikar ni quale ni agez en kazi di dubito. amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1831 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17688 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2005 20:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2005 20:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2005 20:23:08 -0000 Received: from gr.189.162.25.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.162.25] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Duc8o-000DRZ-Ud for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:23:07 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:24:58 +0100 Message-ID: <2005718212458.363615@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200507171159.15973.SPW@vo.lu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] od inkluziva? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=Nck0YT0Zk5NqU4lmtYAqNuGzal_XO8In-_mDOvNN7LKWfus Kara Steve, Me havas memoro ke ulu facis simila propozo, ma me ne memoras = kande od ube. Ka vu povas dicar qua lingua havas tala vorto, e qua vorti e= sas tale uzata en ta lingui? Me inkluzos la propozo en mea (longa) listo. = Danko. Robert. __________________ Steve Walesch skribis: =A0Por =A0indika= r la "od" inkluziva ni devas skribar "ed/od". Me ne trovas =A0diskuti pri c= a aspekto e pro to me volas questionar hike, se on ja =A0parolis pri adopta= r vorto por "od inkluziva". =A0Segun me esus utila e komoda havar tala vor= to, por ne sempre dicar =A0"ed/od" (quo es desoportuna). Me ja pensis pri "= u(d)" nam ol =A0sustenesas da kelka lingui ed es simila a nia konjuncioni: = e(d), =A0o(d). From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1832 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7596 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2005 22:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2005 22:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jul 2005 22:02:59 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.194.2]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 41560384 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:06:05 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:03:01 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <2005718212458.363615@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <2005718212458.363615@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200507190003.01956.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] od inkluziva? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=EEo5WxptXZLg0ssX65mamudVi8MzdsntNIgAVB1nyKRW0iwTVpmO X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch On Monday 18 July 2005 22:24, Robert wrote: > Ka vu povas dicar qua lingua havas tala vorto, e qua vorti esas tale uzata > en ta lingui? Me ne esis sat explicita. Kande me dicis ke "u(d)" kelke sustenesas da altra lingui, me ne vere pensis pri "od inkluziva", ma pri "od exkluziva". La Franca "ou" es pronuncata quale "u", ed en la Hispana on skribas "u" se la nexta vorto komencas kun "o" por ne havar du "o" l'una pos l'altra. Me ne serchis plu fore, ma pose me skribis ke ne es importanta, se altra lingui ne havas tala distingo inter "od inkluziva" ed "od exkluziva", nam ni facas multa distingi qui ne existas en altra lingui. Pro to nia linguo plu bone permisas expresar la pensi. Se ni uzus "od" por "od inkluziva" ed "od exkluziva" ni violacus la principo dil unasenceso. Pro to ni ne povas aceptar "od" kom sola vorto. Ni povas tamen sempre dicar "ed/od" por indikar la "od inkluziva", ma to es desoportuna. amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1833 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37963 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2005 18:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2005 18:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2005 18:21:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 29669 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jul 2005 18:21:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.53.67.240] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:21:02 CEST Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:21:02 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@uahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=I1rYUoi981bLc33r847JNnjfx_uSA7fumgPM7e6HSunMN4MljWriCz8 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Freshiganta saluto, samideani! Quoniam ni omna juas ya tre poka okazioni 'parlar' ed askoltar inter ni, me questionas me quale' singlu ek ni kustumas pronuncar certena Ido-vorti, e quale' on devus pronuncar oli... Duminstante, nur du exempli ta-relate: "segun", quan me pronuncas "SEgun", malgre ke en la Hispana e la Kataluna existas formi quala "seGUN" e "seGONS" rispektive. Tamen, en Ido, me supozas ke ni devas acentizar, anke ca-kaze, la prelasta silabo. "fairo", quan me pronuncas "FAIro" (pro ke me ya deziras lo), malgre ke, teorie, on devus pronuncar ol kom "fa-i-ro", nam, anke teorie, existas nula diftongo "ai" en Ido, ma nur "au", "eu" (ed altri, nur por vorti plur-silaba: ua, ue, ui, uo, ia, ie, io, edc...). Do, quale vi pronuncas oli? PreDANko! p a r T A k a * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1834 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23769 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2005 20:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2005 20:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2005 20:37:18 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.192.14]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 41863999 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:40:34 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:37:23 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200507212237.23235.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=n_kjhUWMkFCgCKSvkLrp25PkgjuIe69J3lr88IxMdUaauJUOEFhe X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch On Thursday 21 July 2005 20:21, Partaka wrote: > Freshiganta saluto, samide= ani! > > Quoniam ni omna juas ya tre poka okazioni 'parlar' > ed askoltar i= nter ni, me questionas me quale' singlu > ek ni kustumas pronuncar certena = Ido-vorti, e quale' > on devus pronuncar oli... Me konfesas ke me tendenca= s pronuncar "seg=C3=BAn", ma me devos esforcar pronuncar ol korekte, segun= la reguli di nia linguo. Mem se ne existas diftongo "ai", me pensas ke, s= e oni sat rapide parolas, ne existas granda difero inter fai-ro e fa-i-ro.= Ja kelka dii ante nun me volis questionar linguolisto quale on pronuncas = banko, longa ed altra simila vorti. Nun me havas bona okaziono por facar l= o. KGD ne donas konsilo pri "nk" e "ng", ube la "n" en preske omna lingui = (adminime ocidentala) es nazala! Preske omnu pronuncas "bang-ko e long-ga= " (kun "n" nazala, quan me reprezentis "ng" hike) vice "ban-ko e lon-ga". = Se ni do sequas la generala principo segun qua on devas pronuncar singla l= itero sempre same, ni violacas l'internacioneso ed adoptas pronunco qua es= desfacila por la maxim multa personi. Ka ne? amikale, Steve P.S. Mem l'= Esperantisti (qui fanfaronas ke lia linguo es plu fonetikala kam la nia) p= ermisas tala pronunco kun "n" nazala e tale sakrifikas la tro strikta fone= tikaleso. P.P.S. Esus interesiva savar quon Otto Jespersen, la ko-fondanto= dil Internaciona Fonetik-Asociuro, pensis pri ca questiono. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1835 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61190 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2005 20:49:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2005 20:49:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2005 20:49:27 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.192.14]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 41864780 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:52:45 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:49:33 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <200507212237.23235.SPW@vo.lu> In-Reply-To: <200507212237.23235.SPW@vo.lu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200507212249.33876.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=cgytNCvQAC04eq_IisKo-8qIjBI141RpMQ7pFAyW_oLLeGui7fnJ X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch On Thursday 21 July 2005 22:37, Steve Walesch wrote: > Mem se ne existas diftongo "ai", me pensas ke, se oni sat rapide parolas, > ne existas granda difero inter fai-ro e fa-i-ro. Oh, pardonez. Me eroris: se oni => se onu > P.P.S. Esus interesiva savar quon Otto Jespersen, la ko-fondanto dil > Internaciona Fonetik-Asociuro, pensis pri ca questiono. Quik pos ke me sendis la mesajo me pensis: "ma me povas ya lektar quon il dicis kande il prizentis Novial!". Me do serchis en "An International Language" e trovis: "N naturally takes the sound of ng in E sing before g, k (and qu)" Il do anke pensis ke la "n" devas esar nazala avan g, k e qu. Ma to pruvas nulo relate l'exakta pronunco en Ido... kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1836 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92859 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2005 21:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jul 2005 21:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.60) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2005 21:59:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n7.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2005 21:59:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2005 21:59:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2005 21:59:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:59:13 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200507212237.23235.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3251 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=nqs2IEHfobUMES5Yuc_uwHxp77oVxPXcda8WPqiGottRYCw X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Me opinionas ke kande on dicas ke Ido pronuncas sempre sam= e la sama litero, to fakte nur aludas la sono bazala dil litero, la "fonem= o" (Ka ta vorto existas en Ido?). Ultre to, existas tendenci generala sat= universala pri to quo en la Angla nomesas "allophonic variants", to esas:= mikra chanji en la soni bazala qui plufaciligas la pronunco di la soni en= la proximeso di altra soni. Ultre la kazo di "banko" e "longa", me pensas= anke pri "informo", en qua la "n" prenas en multa lingui sono labial-dent= ala (formacata inter la labio infra e la dentaro supra, quale /f/ e /v/). = Ed anke me pensas pri "en Paris". Multa lingui pronuncus ta frazo quale "e= m Paris" (kf.: A: "in Paris", H: "en Par=EDs", edc.). Ma ta chanji ne sign= ifikas, meaopinione, violacar la principo ke singla litero havez nur un so= no. Li havus ya un sono, kun sua diversa varianti kuntextala, qui pluse es= as suficante internaciona, predicebla e mem esperebla da parolanti di mul= ta lingui naturala. Kontree, altra varianti kuntextala ya povus esar min u= niversala. En la Angla, exemple, existas la opozo inter /b/ e /p/. La dife= ro esas ke /p/ esas konsonanto surda, dum ke /b/ esas "vibranta". Or, apud= konsonanto surda, konsonanti vibranta divenas mi-surda. Exemple: en "hot= dog", /d/ qua esas vibranta divenas mi-surda, pro la proximeso ad /t/. T= amen ta chanjo ne esas universala. Altra lingui, la Hispana exemple, prize= ntas kustumale la proceso kontrea, nome ke soni surda divenas mi- vibranta = apud sono vibranta, exemple: "rasgo" ofte pronuncesas quale /raz-go/, vice= /ras-kgo/ qua povus esar (proxime) la pronunco Angla. Do, pri ta traito, = Ido devus esar plu sorgoza kam pri la chanji indikata antee, e forsan esfo= rcar retenar la vibranteso o surdeso di singla fonemo. Amikale, Eduardo = A. RODI. > > Freshiganta saluto, samideani! > > > > Quoniam ni omna juas y= a tre poka okazioni 'parlar' > > ed askoltar inter ni, me questionas me qua= le' singlu > > ek ni kustumas pronuncar certena Ido-vorti, e quale' > > on = devus pronuncar oli... > > Me konfesas ke me tendencas pronuncar "seg=C3= =BAn", ma me devos esforcar pronuncar > ol korekte, segun la reguli di ni= a linguo. > > Mem se ne existas diftongo "ai", me pensas ke, se oni sat ra= pide parolas, ne > existas granda difero inter fai-ro e fa-i-ro. > > Ja = kelka dii ante nun me volis questionar linguolisto quale on pronuncas > b= anko, longa ed altra simila vorti. Nun me havas bona okaziono por facar lo= . > > KGD ne donas konsilo pri "nk" e "ng", ube la "n" en preske omna lin= gui > (adminime ocidentala) es nazala! Preske omnu pronuncas "bang-ko e >= long-ga" (kun "n" nazala, quan me reprezentis "ng" hike) vice "ban- ko e = > lon-ga". Se ni do sequas la generala principo segun qua on devas pronunc= ar > singla litero sempre same, ni violacas l'internacioneso ed adoptas p= ronunco > qua es desfacila por la maxim multa personi. Ka ne? > > amikale= , > Steve > > P.S. Mem l'Esperantisti (qui fanfaronas ke lia linguo es pl= u fonetikala kam la > nia) permisas tala pronunco kun "n" nazala e tale s= akrifikas la tro strikta > fonetikaleso. > > P.P.S. Esus interesiva sava= r quon Otto Jespersen, la ko-fondanto dil > Internaciona Fonetik-Asociuro= , pensis pri ca questiono. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1837 Return-Path: X-Sender: eberhard.scholz@idolinguo.de X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25009 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2005 06:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2005 06:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jul 2005 06:18:23 -0000 Received: from Dial-In-217-9-32-243.berlikomm.net [217.9.32.243] (helo=[217.9.32.243]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1Dvqr80qa1-0008Bu; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 08:17:58 +0200 Message-ID: <42DFF843.9040004@idolinguo.de> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:32:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com References: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:2070e8685633edce8717018c05234aac X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Eberhard Scholz Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=23339976; y=ffzlCju6tyatWkH0qegSMe3QfklJX_ZTvDW_XYCTnbe7-NROgO9i X-Yahoo-Profile: e_scholz2002 Kara Partaka, ofte me kaptas me acentizar la vorto "segun" nekorekta. Do me parolas ofte seGUN. Ma me opinionas ke la Idala reguli esez l�idealo kreita por interkompreno. Tre ofte mankas la policisti por korekta pronuncado( precipue SEgun me). Multa saluti vers la Kataluna chefurbo Eberhard From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1838 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98029 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2005 21:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jul 2005 21:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp018.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.115) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2005 21:59:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 9828 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2005 21:59:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.64.177 with login) by smtp018.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jul 2005 21:59:39 -0000 To: , Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:59:48 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c5922d$591c07c0$b140fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <42E64C91.10502@k3.dion.ne.jp> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [idolerneyo] De la Linguolisto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057; y=APv_S-ZzTaogRBYOORxi8R6byq1nS625WeWAtrnAjlJAJw X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Pri konjuncioni e,o,u. Unesme me montras mea nula intenco pri chanji gramatikala, me montras mea vido-punto matematikala pri la konjuncioni e, o, u. Voluntez lektar la dokumento: http://es.geocities.com/krayono/konjuncioni.pdf Ula yari ante nun me lektis en revuo matematikala ke en la linguo di lando (ka vere existanta?) existas la konjunciono "u", to esas "e/o" (kun la senco matematikala olquan irgu povas komprenar de la antea pdf-dokumento da me) ma ne existas la konjuncioni "e", "o". La problemi solvenda esis tradukar texto en la Hispana kontenanta plura konjuncioni a ta linguo, e komprenende anke tradukar texto en ta linguo a la Hispana. Onu komprenas ke la senco di la tradukita texti devez ambasence ne alteresor. Ta ludon, samatempe matematikala e linguala, tre multe me prizis. Forsan mea vido-punto matematikala ne esas apta por observar la linguo Ido, ma matematikon me tante multe prizas... Do, quon me intencas? Komprenende nulon! Anaguma Feru. -----Mensaje original----- De: idolerneyo@yahoogroups.com [mailto:idolerneyo@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de Bebson Y. TAKATA Enviado el: martes, 26 de julio de 2005 16:46 Para: IdoEspanyol; IdoLerneyo; IdoCatalaOccitan Asunto: [idolerneyo] De la Linguolisto ======================================================================== = Sro Fernando TEJON:- Onu nur bone konocas to quon lu ipsa domestikigis. - ======================================================================== = From: Steve Walesch Date: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:03 am Subject: Re: [linguo] od inkluziva? On Monday 18 July 2005 22:24, Robert wrote: > Ka vu povas dicar qua lingua havas tala vorto, e qua vorti esas tale > uzata en ta lingui? Me ne esis sat explicita. Kande me dicis ke "u(d)" kelke sustenesas da altra lingui, me ne vere pensis pri "od inkluziva", ma pri "od exkluziva". La Franca "ou" es pronuncata quale "u", ed en la Hispana on skribas "u" se la nexta vorto komencas kun "o" por ne havar du "o" l'una pos l'altra. Me ne serchis plu fore, ma pose me skribis ke ne es importanta, se altra lingui ne havas tala distingo inter "od inkluziva" ed "od exkluziva", nam ni facas multa distingi qui ne existas en altra lingui. Pro to nia linguo plu bone permisas expresar la pensi. Se ni uzus "od" por "od inkluziva" ed "od exkluziva" ni violacus la prin- cipo dil unasenceso. Pro to ni ne povas aceptar "od" kom sola vorto. Ni povas tamen sempre dicar "ed/od" por indikar la "od inkluziva", ma to es desoportuna. amikale, Steve From: "Krayono" Date: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:50 am Subject: RE: [linguo] od inkluziva? Voluntez lektar la mesaji di ta forumo: 1040, 1041, 1043 e 1046. From: Steve Walesch Date: Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:59 pm Subject: od inkluziva? Se me bone komprenas, nia konjunciono "od" es "od exkluziva" (quale en la maxim multa lingui). "Se pluvos o se esos kolda, me metos boti" signifikas do ke me metos boti kande: 1. pluvos 2. esos kolda ma *ne* kande esos kolda *e* pluvos samtempe, nam "od" es exkluziva. Por indikar la "od" inkluziva ni devas skribar "ed/od". Me ne trovas diskuti pri ca aspekto e pro to me volas questionar hike, se on ja parolis pri adoptar vorto por "od inkluziva". Segun me esus utila e komoda havar tala vorto, por ne sempre dicar "ed/od" (quo es desoportuna). Me ja pensis pri "u(d)" nam ol sustenesas da kelka lingui ed es simila a nia konjuncioni: e(d), o(d). Forsan co omna es superlogikoza e konseque evitinda en omnadia linguajo? Altra lingui ne havas vorto por "od inkluziva", pro quo ni bezonus ol? Precipue nam nia linguo es supera ad altra? Ni havas altra vorti, qui ofte ne havas equivalanto en multa lingui, nam ni facas distingo inter: dio e jorno matine e morge filii e infani (Mea filii ne plus esas infanti.) Multa lingui ne havas ta posiblesi. Ni anke havas pronomo "lu" qua ne ex- istas en multa lingui. Pro to me pensas ke "od inkluziva" anke povus esar oportuna. Ka ca temo ja esis diskutita? Se yes, voluntez indikar me ibe me trovos informi. Ol multe interesas me. kordiale, Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Por me la konjunciono "od" sempre esas "od inkluziva" quale anke en kelka lingui en la mondo. "Se pluvos o se esos kolda, me metos boti" signifikas ke me metos boti... kande: 1. pluvos "o" 2. esos kolda, ed anke kande esos kolda *e* pluvos samtempe, nam "od" generale esas inkluziva. Por "od exkluziva" me uzas "sive". Sive pluvos, sive esos kolda, me metos boti. Nur kande me mustas emfazar "od" indikar ke "o/od" esas "od inkluziva", me dicas "ed/od" quale ... Se pluvos ed/od se esos kolda, me metos boti. Do por me, "ed/od" nur esas emfazilo por "od inkluziva". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Adio ed anke Adeo! .....sincere via, vua ed anke tua B.Y.T. .....Idisto ed Idiotisto pro mea nur limitizita e povra edukado ed anke ....Ido-Kavaliero per bona oreli vice mea skarsa e povra cerebro Ido-Kurso.: http://www.geocities.com/bebsonido/ IdoLerneyo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolerneyo/ LiveJournal.com: http://www.livejournal.com/users/bebson/ Ido-Biblioteko (Sro FT).: http://es.geocities.com/krayono/publikaji.html ************************************************************************ * Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. Will DURANT Edukado esas progresanta des'kovrado din nia propra nul'savo. Will DURANT ************************************************************************ * Yahoo! Groups Links ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1839 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55506 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 12:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 12:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 12:36:51 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.194.112]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 42355318 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:34:02 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:30:35 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <000001c5922d$591c07c0$b140fed5@alcali> In-Reply-To: <000001c5922d$591c07c0$b140fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200507271430.36179.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] RE: [idolerneyo] De la Linguolisto X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=DeGFsIizrhWBhnpjwh-VAqEBHo1iS79_50kz89Y65pJFWAQOtFbd X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Danko Fernando. To es exakte quon anke me pensis e probis explikar. Ma vua PDF-dosiero plu bone ilustras la "problemo". kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1840 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90611 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2005 20:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2005 20:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jul 2005 20:00:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 28066 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jul 2005 20:00:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20050727200026.28064.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.53.78.83] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:00:26 CEST Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:00:26 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: MERKURDIO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=nI-vJw93eswjjEKYNb1S_jiusFnPSLTVB3QSkiiFyx0Y6yM26srExu0 X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas (Europa) Merkurdie, 27ma di julio 2005 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kordial saluto, kamaradi! Me deziras questionar ulo, pri quo me ne ja certesas. Qua vortin ni devas uzar por nomizar le yena?: - la deo: Ka "Merkurius/Merkurio"? - la kemial elemento (vivant-arjento): Ka "merkurio"? - la planeto: Ka "Merkuro"? Kad ulu savas...? Predanko, e maxim bona merkurdio-fino ad omnu! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1841 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94785 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2005 21:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jul 2005 21:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jul 2005 21:21:12 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.110.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.110] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DyFoV-000JY8-92; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:21:12 +0100 To: , , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 22:23:01 +0100 Message-ID: <200572822231.005074@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050727200026.28064.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] MERKURDIO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=ob8bczfDOrEaa2k8g056cXZg6TqCFt1Cy8ci4PdQkKkDld4 Kara Partaka, Ni ja havas "merkurio" por la elemento kemiala. Me propozas= "Merkuro" por la deo e la planeto. Me bezonas ankore la Germana e Rusa tra= dukuri por la deo e por la planeto. Kordiale, Robert. ____________ Part= aka skribis: (Europa) Merkurdie, 27ma di julio 2005 * * * * * * * * * * * = * * * * * * Kordial saluto, kamaradi! Me deziras questionar ulo, pri quo = me ne ja certesas. Qua vortin ni devas uzar por nomizar le yena?: - la de= o: Ka "Merkurius/Merkurio"? - la kemial elemento (vivant-arjento): Ka "merk= urio"? - la planeto: Ka "Merkuro"? Kad ulu savas...? Predanko, e maxim bo= na merkurdio-fino ad omnu! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordi= al bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCat= alaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el = Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es Y= ahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1842 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70032 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2005 02:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jul 2005 02:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jul 2005 02:45:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 02:45:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jul 2005 02:45:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 02:45:42 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200572822231.005074@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1383 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] MERKURDIO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=JhwGMtFqbvYZR_YdL7dwUFxpTgB5j4q4bUh5c9P_wh2lOQ1n5EE X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar Robert, deo: Merkur (Germana), Merkuri=EF (Rusa) planeto: Merkur (Ger= mana), Merkuri=EF (Rusa) * La nomo dil deo e la nomo dil planeto esas h= omografi e homonimi en la Germana, e same la nomo dil deo e la nomo dil p= laneto esas homografi e homonimi en la Rusa! Kordiale, Jacques * --- = In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Kara Partaka,= > > Ni ja havas "merkurio" por la elemento kemiala. > > Me propozas "Mer= kuro" por la deo e la planeto. Me bezonas ankore la Germana e Rusa traduku= ri por la deo e por la planeto. > > Kordiale, > > Robert. > > __________= __ > > Partaka skribis: > > (Europa) Merkurdie, 27ma di julio 2005 > * * = * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > Kordial saluto, kamaradi! > > Me dezira= s questionar ulo, pri quo me ne ja certesas. > > Qua vortin ni devas uzar = por nomizar le yena?: > > - la deo: Ka "Merkurius/Merkurio"? > - la kemial= elemento (vivant-arjento): Ka "merkurio"? > - la planeto: Ka "Merkuro"? > = > Kad ulu savas...? > > Predanko, e maxim bona merkurdio-fino ad omnu! > = > > P A R T A K A > * * * * * * * * > > > > > > Maxim kordial bonven= o aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccit= an/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > Renovamos e= l Correo Yahoo! > Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad > http://correo.yahoo.e= s > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1843 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 13171 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2005 16:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jul 2005 16:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jul 2005 16:24:57 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.52.186.166) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 42D22FB9001FB302 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:24:28 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c59523$932b2740$a6ba3452@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:27:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Inkluziva Alternativo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=y8LGcmmS0VBZyLlmJdc1VZirn61HIkPEly_dgmIydqWYBCo X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Koncerne la konjuncioni "e/ed" "o/od" me aprecias l'aprocho logika/matematika da Anaguma Feru (mesajo 1838 a Linguolisto -> Diagrami di Venn) (1). Fakte, me pensas ke, se distingar inkluziveso/exkluziveso di "o/od" es tote necesa en logiko e matematiko, to es multe min necesa en linguistiko. ��� LOGIKO E MATEMATIKO En logiko simbolala ed en matematiko on distingas inter mult altra la sequanta kazi (2): ### Inkluziva Desjunto, simbolizita per "v" ["vee" o konio]. [A v B] signifikas: o A es vera, o B es vera, o amba A e B es vera. Per la Diagrami di Venn, Inkluziva Desjunto reprezentesas da du cirkli A e B intersekanta, inkluze l'interseko (t.e. la parto super-pozita). ### Exkluziva Desjunto, simbolizita per "v_" ["vee" sub-strekizita]. [A v_ B] signifikas: o A es vera, o B es vera, ma ne amba A e B es vera. Per la Diagrami di Venn, Exkluziva Desjunto reprezentesas: - da du cirkli A e B intersekanta, exkluze l'interseko: se A e B es konciliebla; - da du cirkli A e B separita (sen punti komuna): se A e B es ne-konciliebla (3). ### Kunjunto, simbolizita per "^" ["caret" o chapelo]. [A ^ B] signifikas: amba A e B es vera. Per la Diagrami di Venn , Kunjunto reprezentesas da l'interseko (t.e. da la parto super-pozita) di du cirkli A e B. ��� EXEMPLI PRAKTIKA Inkluziva Desjunto: Andreas es studianta e/o lu es che Marta. Esas tri posiblesi: - Andreas es studianta, ne che Marta; - Andreas es che Marta, ne-studianta; - Andreas es studianta, che Marta. Exkluziva Desjunto: Andreas es studianta o lu es che Marta. Esas du posiblesi: - Andreas es studianta, ne che Marta; - Andreas es che Marta, ne-studianta. Kunjunto: Andreas es studianta e lu es che Marta. Esas un posibleso: - Andreas es studianta, che Marta. ��� LINGUISTIKO Ye lo maxim bona di mea savo, ne existas, en l'ordinara uzado di le AFGHIR, kelko komparebla a la supera logika distingo. En le AFGHIR, se necesesas signifikar Inkluziva Desjunto, en la parolado ordinara, on uzas tranquile "and/or, et/ou, und/oder, y/o, e/o, i/ili". Probez Google-serchar ca *sintagmi (4) en Internet: aparos milioni de exempli. Mea-konoce, lo maxim proxima a la supera logika distingo existas en la Latina, ube: - "vel" es sat proxima a la Inkluziva Desjunto, - "aut" es sat proxima a la Exkluziva Desjunto. Exempli: - fortuna populi posita est in unius voluntate VEL moribus: la fortuno dil populo es pozita en la volo e/o en la karaktero di un persono; - quod est verum AUT falsum: to es vera o ne-vera. ��� BONA NIUVO* (novajo). Por la ne-kontentigebli pri vorti-quanto (generale, me es un ek li) esas bona niuvo*: "vel" existas, o adminime existis en Ido. PROGRESO VI, Junio 1913, Decidi dil Akademio, pag. 211. [decido] 1060. - On adoptas 'vel' ... por indikar inkluziva alternativo. [decido] 1061. - On repulsas 'aut' por exkluziva alternativo... PROGRESO VI, Decembro 1913, pag. 539. "...se l'uzo di 'vel' (qua esis demandata, e semblas utila, por kelka kazi qui postulas teknikala precizeso) semblas tro subtila ad ula samideani, li uzez omnakaze 'od', e li nultempe kulpos." ��� KONKLUZO Surbaze di ca decido dil Akademio, anke se pose probable nihiligita, me kredas ke "vel" darfas uzesar por indikar Inkluziva Desjunto, adminime kom antiqua vorto (5). ---------- (1) La Diagrami di Venn es geometriala maniero reprezentar, per rektanguli e cirkli, certena relati inter fakti o kozi di ul ensemblo. Anaguma Feru furnisas exempli en sua retala situo (me konsilas vidar li). (2) Diferanta Autori povas uzar diferanta simboli. (3) Ca kazo (cirkli separita) mankas en la exempli da Anaguma Feru. (4) Sintagm.o* = unajo sintaxala, de un, du o plua elementi. A syntagm(a), F syntagme, G Syntagma, H sintagma, I sintagma, R sintagma. (5) Olim me skribis "...me sempre opinionis ke remplaso mem oficala di ul radiko ne igas ol "ipso facto" (pro la fakto ipsa) nekorekta, ma nur obsoleta, arkaika. La dicionarii dil lingui naturala havas abunde tala formi, ne plus cirkulanta, ma tamen uzebla okazione." Anke A. Juste skribis: "Ma evidente on ne povas falar en olima eroro e supresar vorti o formi; ton on facas en nula linguo! La bona metodo esas konsiderar oli arkaika ... plezuro dil literaturisti e poeti..." ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1844 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90624 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2005 17:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2005 17:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2005 17:37:52 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.20]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 42725165 for ; Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:41:29 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 19:37:53 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <000501c59523$932b2740$a6ba3452@nardinic> In-Reply-To: <000501c59523$932b2740$a6ba3452@nardinic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200507311937.54100.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Inkluziva Alternativo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=qYA4qDlLMGt0YF28U60uorHLIi3th6a6fgn-WwpJ0ncgXwtVI9tT X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch On Saturday 30 July 2005 18:27, Carlo Nardini wrote: > Por la ne-kontentigebli pri vorti-quanto (generale, me es un ek li) esas > bona niuvo*: "vel" existas, o adminime existis en Ido. Me multe dankas por vua detaloz ed interesiv informi. amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1845 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81438 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2005 22:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2005 22:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp101.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.139) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2005 22:11:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 55760 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2005 22:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.71.27 with login) by smtp101.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jul 2005 22:11:32 -0000 To: Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 00:11:38 +0200 Message-ID: <00e601c5961c$d3d61300$1b47fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000501c59523$932b2740$a6ba3452@nardinic> Importance: Normal X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] Inkluziva Alternativo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057; y=aw4RGjDhnIfOuLn9fr7x7mC_x_KrS_JGJqp9aSvXvIqX2g X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Kara sioro Carlo NARDINI Unesme me gratitudas vua maxim lektinda mesajo.= Me konkordas pri "distingar inkluziveso/exkluziveso di "o/od" esas tote ne= cesa en logiko e matematiko, to esas multe min necesa en linguistiko". Ma l= inguo qua havas vorto uzebla ("vel") vice leda (meaopinione) sintagmo "e/o"= montras ke segun ula pioniri ta konjunciono povus esor utila. To montras k= e lia laboro esis plu serioza e detaloza kam multi supozas, e ke nia linguo= internaciona esas vera trezoro linguala. Me maxim multe desprizas adoptar = nova vorto se onu povas uzar ja existanta vorto che nia dicionarii. Do tote= obliviar "u/ud" pro ke ja existas apta vorto "vel" felicigas men. Pluse pr= o ke "vel" esas Latina vorto. Evidente "vel" esas vorto olquan preske nulat= empe ulu lektos en literaturala verki, ma okazione uzebla en matematikala v= erki, do konjunciono utila. Uli prizas lingui vel matematiko, altri ne priz= as lingui nek matematiko. Me prizas lingui e matematiko. Itere vua intelige= nta mesajon me gratitudas. Amikala salutin sendas a vu Anaguma Feru / Fern= ando Tej=F3n. -----Mensaje original----- De: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com= [mailto:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de Carlo Nardini Enviado el= : s=E1bado, 30 de julio de 2005 18:27 Para: Linguolisto Asunto: [linguo] In= kluziva Alternativo Koncerne la konjuncioni "e/ed" "o/od" me aprecias l'a= procho logika/matematika da Anaguma Feru (mesajo 1838 a Linguolisto -> Diag= rami di Venn) (1). Fakte, me pensas ke, se distingar inkluziveso/exkluzive= so di "o/od" es tote necesa en logiko e matematiko, to es multe min necesa = en linguistiko. =A7=A7=A7 LOGIKO E MATEMATIKO En logiko simbolala ed en = matematiko on distingas inter mult altra la sequanta kazi (2): ### Inkluzi= va Desjunto, simbolizita per "v" ["vee" o konio]. [A v B] signifikas: o A e= s vera, o B es vera, o amba A e B es vera. Per la Diagrami di Venn, Inkluzi= va Desjunto reprezentesas da du cirkli A e B intersekanta, inkluze l'inters= eko (t.e. la parto super-pozita). ### Exkluziva Desjunto, simbolizita per = "v_" ["vee" sub-strekizita]. [A v_ B] signifikas: o A es vera, o B es vera,= ma ne amba A e B es vera. Per la Diagrami di Venn, Exkluziva Desjunto repr= ezentesas: - da du cirkli A e B intersekanta, exkluze l'interseko: se A e B= es konciliebla; - da du cirkli A e B separita (sen punti komuna): se A e B= es ne-konciliebla (3). ### Kunjunto, simbolizita per "^" ["caret" o chape= lo]. [A ^ B] signifikas: amba A e B es vera. Per la Diagrami di Venn , Kunj= unto reprezentesas da l'interseko (t.e. da la parto super-pozita) di du cir= kli A e B. =A7=A7=A7 EXEMPLI PRAKTIKA Inkluziva Desjunto: Andreas es st= udianta e/o lu es che Marta. Esas tri posiblesi: - Andreas es studianta, ne= che Marta; - Andreas es che Marta, ne-studianta; - Andreas es studianta, c= he Marta. Exkluziva Desjunto: Andreas es studianta o lu es che Marta. Esas= du posiblesi: - Andreas es studianta, ne che Marta; - Andreas es che Marta= , ne-studianta. Kunjunto: Andreas es studianta e lu es che Marta. Esas un = posibleso: - Andreas es studianta, che Marta. =A7=A7=A7 LINGUISTIKO Ye l= o maxim bona di mea savo, ne existas, en l'ordinara uzado di le AFGHIR, kel= ko komparebla a la supera logika distingo. En le AFGHIR, se necesesas signi= fikar Inkluziva Desjunto, en la parolado ordinara, on uzas tranquile "and/o= r, et/ou, und/oder, y/o, e/o, i/ili". Probez Google-serchar ca *sintagmi (4= ) en Internet: aparos milioni de exempli. Mea-konoce, lo maxim proxima a l= a supera logika distingo existas en la Latina, ube: - "vel" es sat proxima = a la Inkluziva Desjunto, - "aut" es sat proxima a la Exkluziva Desjunto. Ex= empli: - fortuna populi posita est in unius voluntate VEL moribus: la fortu= no dil populo es pozita en la volo e/o en la karaktero di un persono; - quo= d est verum AUT falsum: to es vera o ne-vera. =A7=A7=A7 BONA NIUVO* (nova= jo). Por la ne-kontentigebli pri vorti-quanto (generale, me es un ek li) e= sas bona niuvo*: "vel" existas, o adminime existis en Ido. PROGRESO VI, Ju= nio 1913, Decidi dil Akademio, pag. 211. [decido] 1060. - On adoptas 'vel' = ... por indikar inkluziva alternativo. [decido] 1061. - On repulsas 'aut' p= or exkluziva alternativo... PROGRESO VI, Decembro 1913, pag. 539. "...se l= 'uzo di 'vel' (qua esis demandata, e semblas utila, por kelka kazi qui post= ulas teknikala precizeso) semblas tro subtila ad ula samideani, li uzez omn= akaze 'od', e li nultempe kulpos." =A7=A7=A7 KONKLUZO Surbaze di ca dec= ido dil Akademio, anke se pose probable nihiligita, me kredas ke "vel" darf= as uzesar por indikar Inkluziva Desjunto, adminime kom antiqua vorto (5). = ---------- (1) La Diagrami di Venn es geometriala maniero reprezentar, per= rektanguli e cirkli, certena relati inter fakti o kozi di ul ensemblo. An= aguma Feru furnisas exempli en sua retala situo (me konsilas vidar li). (2= ) Diferanta Autori povas uzar diferanta simboli. (3) Ca kazo (cirkli separ= ita) mankas en la exempli da Anaguma Feru. (4) Sintagm.o* =3D unajo sintax= ala, de un, du o plua elementi. A syntagm(a), F syntagme, G Syntagma, H sin= tagma, I sintagma, R sintagma. (5) Olim me skribis "...me sempre opinionis= ke remplaso mem oficala di ul radiko ne igas ol "ipso facto" (pro la fakto= ipsa) nekorekta, ma nur obsoleta, arkaika. La dicionarii dil lingui natura= la havas abunde tala formi, ne plus cirkulanta, ma tamen uzebla okazione." = Anke A. Juste skribis: "Ma evidente on ne povas falar en olima eroro e sup= resar vorti o formi; ton on facas en nula linguo! La bona metodo esas konsi= derar oli arkaika ... plezuro dil literaturisti e poeti..." ---------- Ca= rlo Nardini Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________= ____________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m=E1s s= eguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1846 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62326 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2005 00:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Aug 2005 00:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.55) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Aug 2005 00:46:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 1229 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Aug 2005 00:46:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20050802004603.1227.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.53.79.16] by web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Aug 2005 02:46:03 CEST Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 02:46:03 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200572822231.005074@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] MERKURDIO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=VZcmoWw4etAA1acYA7eK3uyg_YflKIrK2CPQl8AwyoL0vT_qiEV8pVQ X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kordial saluto, Robert! Me povas apen kredar, ke ne ja existas ofical Ido-vorto e por la deo, e por l'unesma planeto dil sunal sistemo. Relate l' planeto, me lektabas ya multa-foye, adminime da Martignon e Tej�n, la vorto "Merkurio", ed ol sempre semblis a me esar tote justa e natural... Tamen, me recente surprizesis per trovir "Merkuro" che nia Ido-Wikipedio... Segun me, "Merkurio" es la maxim bona formo por la deo e la planeto, malgre ke ni ja havas "merkurio" por la kemial elemento. Multa ek nia fonto-lingui uzas un sama vorto por ta tri koncepti, e anke Ido povus agar tale (ca-kaze, lo semblas pasable justifikebla)... Me ne trovis la formo "Merkuro" che nia ret-vortari (ma nur, maxim kurioze, che l'Ido-Eo ed Eo-Ido ret-vortari). "Merkuro" es ya Eo-vorto, e me konjektas pro quo Eo ne adoptis "Merkurio" (plu bona e natural)... Yen la problemo: "Merkurjo" o "Merkuri'o". Amba leda. Pro lo, Eo mem preferabus "hidrargo" por la kemial elemento, vice nia "merkurio"... Fortunoze, ca-kaze, Ido darfas sequar sua propra voyo. Ultre l'existo dil Ido-verbo "merkar" (merk.ur.o)... "Mercurius" (do "Merkurio") es l'original deo-nomo. Pluse, I: Mercurio, H/P: Mercurio/Merc�rio, A: Merkury, R: Merkuriy (me ne savas ka tote justa trans-skriburo). Me es preske certa, ke "Merkurio" (kom deo e planeto) uzesabis amaso de foyi da kelk ancien Idisti. Yen do mea merkuro: me es favoroz a "Merkurio". + Vale! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * --- Robert skribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Ni ja havas "merkurio" por la elemento kemiala. Me propozas "Merkuro" por la deo e la planeto. Me bezonas ankore la Germana e Rusa tradukuri por la deo e por la planeto. Kordiale, Robert. ____________ Partaka skribis: (Europa) Merkurdie, 27ma di julio 2005 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kordial saluto, kamaradi! Me deziras questionar ulo, pri quo me ne ja certesas. Qua vortin ni devas uzar por nomizar le yena?: - la deo: Ka "Merkurius/Merkurio"? - la kemial elemento (vivant-arjento): Ka "merkurio"? - la planeto: Ka "Merkuro"? Kad ulu savas...? Predanko, e maxim bona merkurdio-fino ad omnu! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1847 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94304 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2005 19:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2005 19:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.21) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2005 19:21:50 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:21:27 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:21:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200508032012.52371.SPW@vo.lu> To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 19:21:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2005 19:21:27.0908 (UTC) FILETIME=[8BC3E240:01C59860] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] helpo bezonata pri terminologio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=L28prsFszhnyL7CpzmMqhLRpUotkmrpyAZh9EkboKFE X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Steve Me uzus forsan: Dum kurta/longa tempo-periodo Dum la balda/proxima/fora/lontana futuro Segun me frist/o es apta nur por certena specala senci. >From: Steve Walesch >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido] helpo bezonata pri terminologio >Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:12:52 +0200 > >Bona vespero! > >Me havas multa problemi expresar en Ido: >EN: in the short run / in the long run >FR: � court terme / � long terme >DE: kurzfristig / langfristig > >Anke en la dicionarii me ne vere trovis ol. Me trovis la vorto "fristo" qua >povas forsan esar utila. Kad ulu povas helpar me? > >Multa danki e til riskribo, >Steve > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1848 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26903 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2005 21:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2005 21:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 2005 21:04:57 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.39.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.39] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1E0QQ1-0007i7-Gh; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:04:54 +0100 To: , X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 22:08:17 +0100 Message-ID: <20058322817.613703@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20050802004603.1227.qmail@web26605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] MERKURDIO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=7EF7NMZkAKDUZF1igrl_OyaqCVOzh5pNoobxN_kcxinRwnY Kara Partaka, Esas desprobabla ke on bezonus parolar normale (ecepte se on= skribus pri lia nomi!) en la sama frazo pri la deo e la planeto. Do, esus = rare problemo se ni havus por li la sama vorto. Tamen, esas certe posibla = ke uli bezonos future en la sama frazo parolar pri la elemento kemiala e la= planeto. Exemple: "En ula parto di *Merkurio esas signo ke merkurio esas t= rovebla" (nur skribe esas difero). Esus plu granda risko di miskompreno se= on uzas adjektivo od adverbo. Exemple: "Problemo M/merkuriala" esus tote = ambigua kande parolata. Pro to, semblas a me ke esus plu bona ne havar nur = un vorto por la planeto e la elemento. Yes, la Angla, Franca, Germana e Hi= spana havas single nur un vorto por la tri koncepti, ma ne la Rusa. La Ang= la linguo havas "M/mercury", la Hispana ed Italiana "M/mercurio". Altralate= re, la Franca havas "M/mercure", e la Germana havas "Merkur". Semblas esar = racionala uzar la du diferanta formi por distingar adminime la planeto e la= elemento. Quon pensas altri? Kordiale, Robert. ____________ Partaka sk= ribis: Kordial saluto, Robert! Me povas apen kredar, ke ne ja existas ofi= cal Ido-vorto e por la deo, e por l'unesma planeto dil sunal sistemo. Relat= e l' planeto, me lektabas ya multa-foye, adminime da Martignon e Tej=F3n, l= a vorto "Merkurio", ed ol sempre semblis a me esar tote justa e natural... = Tamen, me recente surprizesis per trovir "Merkuro" che nia Ido-Wikipedio...= Segun me, "Merkurio" es la maxim bona formo por la deo e la planeto, malg= re ke ni ja havas "merkurio" por la kemial elemento. Multa ek nia fonto-lin= gui uzas un sama vorto por ta tri koncepti, e anke Ido povus agar tale (ca-= kaze, lo semblas pasable justifikebla)... Me ne trovis la formo "Merkuro" = che nia ret-vortari (ma nur, maxim kurioze, che l'Ido-Eo ed Eo-Ido ret-vort= ari). "Merkuro" es ya Eo-vorto, e me konjektas pro quo Eo ne adoptis "Merku= rio" (plu bona e natural)... Yen la problemo: "Merkurjo" o "Merkuri'o". Amb= a leda. Pro lo, Eo mem preferabus "hidrargo" por la kemial elemento, vice n= ia "merkurio"... Fortunoze, ca-kaze, Ido darfas sequar sua propra voyo. Ul= tre l'existo dil Ido-verbo "merkar" (merk.ur.o)... "Mercurius" (do "Merkuri= o") es l'original deo-nomo. Pluse, I: Mercurio, H/P: Mercurio/Merc=FArio, A= : Merkury, R: Merkuriy (me ne savas ka tote justa trans-skriburo). Me es p= reske certa, ke "Merkurio" (kom deo e planeto) uzesabis amaso de foyi da ke= lk ancien Idisti. Yen do mea merkuro: me es favoroz a "Merkurio". + Vale!= P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * =A0--- Robert =A0s= kribis: --------------------------------- Kara Partaka, Ni ja havas "mer= kurio" por la elemento kemiala. Me propozas "Merkuro" por la deo e la plan= eto. Me bezonas ankore la Germana e Rusa tradukuri por la deo e por la plan= eto. Kordiale, Robert. ____________ Partaka skribis: (Europa) Merkurdi= e, 27ma di julio 2005 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kordial saluto, ka= maradi! Me deziras questionar ulo, pri quo me ne ja certesas. Qua vortin = ni devas uzar por nomizar le yena?: - la deo: Ka "Merkurius/Merkurio"? - l= a kemial elemento (vivant-arjento): Ka "merkurio"? - la planeto: Ka "Merkur= o"? Kad ulu savas...? Predanko, e maxim bona merkurdio-fino ad omnu! P = A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN= ! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ___________________= ___________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m= =E1s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1849 Return-Path: X-Sender: ido.info@chello.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61612 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2005 21:41:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2005 21:41:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO amsfep20-int.chello.nl) (213.46.243.17) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Aug 2005 21:41:47 -0000 Received: from juan2 ([62.163.41.140]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050804214035.HPHZ1950.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@juan2> for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 23:40:35 +0200 Message-ID: <007c01c5993d$281c1130$8c29a33e@juan2> To: Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 23:40:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "Hans Stuifbergen" Subject: censureso X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22974939; y=ZS5h_1zX98A5wC5iDoJihwrBjMib0uAfjOSIXf95oRzgi-Q X-Yahoo-Profile: ido_info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pro censuro da Yahoo me es koaktata abandonar omna Yahoo-grupi e boikotar omna Yahoo produkturi. Me deziras ne plu relatar irgamaniere Yahoo. Depos nun me uzoz MSN-grupi e l'Idoforumi di la Nord-Amerikan Ido-Societo. Hans Stuifbergen -- Divenez membro di ULI (Uniono di la Linguo Internaciona, Ido). Membri gratuite recevas l' ofical organo Progreso. - http://www.idolinguo.com/ YAHOO CENSURAS, BOIKOTEZ YAHOO!!! UZEZ ALTRA FORUMO-PROVIZERII: http://www.idolinguo.org/ http://groups.msn.com/MondalistiAltramaniere/ http://groups.msn.com/Idisto http://groups.msn.com/IdoHispania http://groups.msn.com/IdoNederland From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1850 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31837 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2005 12:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Aug 2005 12:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Aug 2005 12:37:28 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.192.101]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 43274292 for multiple; Sat, 06 Aug 2005 14:41:13 +0200 Return-Path: To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 14:37:25 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <200508032012.52371.SPW@vo.lu> <000d01c599ce$b64b2d60$372d90d4@neussner> In-Reply-To: <000d01c599ce$b64b2d60$372d90d4@neussner> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508061437.25978.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [ido] helpo bezonata pri terminologio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=zzGaGl6iGaWUc0TxzDhDRL7d_YMS1GvhwEETM5eE2VO5rwVbaoDi X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch On Friday 05 August 2005 12:05, Alfred Neussner wrote: > Me dicus "kurtfriste, longfriste" od eventuale Yes, to semblas maxim oportuna. Me tamen dankas anke James, nam depende del kontexto diferanta solvi povas konvenar. Me joyas pri la diferanta propozi. Nun me havas ankore altra questiono. "Financo" (la finance, EN: finance, das Finanzwesen) es ya nomo dil fako, o dil ensemblo di financisti, dil "mondo financala". Ol tote ne povas indikar la "ago provizar firmo per krediti od altra moyeni financala". Pro to me uzis "financar" (financer, to finance, finanzieren, ...). Ma to semblas ne-justa, nam lore on trovus (per nemediata derivado) la sama substantivo "financo" ma kun altra senco (financement, financing, Finanzierung). Lore me pensis ke "financizar (o forsan financagar)" e "financizo (o forsan financago)" povas expresar l'ideo di ca lasta vorti, ka? Me serchis en la reto e trovis ke kelka personi ja uzis la vorti financizar e financizo. Strikte "financizar" ya signifikas ke on "provizas per financo", ka ne? Ma to ne es justa, nam on ne povas provizar per financo, nam financo indikas fako. Me tamen opinionas ke on ne devas esar tro strikta ed aceptar "financizar". Voluntez konsilar me. :-) Gratitudoze, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1851 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7804 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2005 19:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Aug 2005 19:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Aug 2005 19:29:25 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.42.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.42] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1E1qpm-000HmI-T8 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:29:23 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 20:33:00 +0100 Message-ID: <20058720330.573829@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200508061437.25978.SPW@vo.lu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4 From: Robert Subject: Re: [ido] helpo bezonata pri terminologio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=WK9GC2XThWzL-GPmb6q9nPsPEwTnwngJMFI034KiiemmuRg Nek Dyer nek Pesch indikas ke "financo" esas (nomo di) fako. La senco quan = li donas existas anke por la Franca ed Angla vorti. Dyer: financ-o: financ= e, pecuniary resources. Pesch: financo. Provizuro de pekunio quan ulu (o S= tato) disponas. Do "financizar" esas apta vorto. Tamen, se multa lingui u= zas "financo" anke por fako, forsan ni bezonas en Ido adjuntar ta senco al = nuna senco. Robert. Steve Walesch skribis: =A0Nun me havas ankore altra= questiono. "Financo" (la finance, EN: =A0finance, das Finanzwesen) es ya n= omo dil fako, o dil ensemblo di =A0financisti, dil "mondo financala". Ol to= te ne povas indikar la "ago =A0provizar firmo per krediti od altra moyeni f= inancala". =A0Pro to me uzis "financar" (financer, to finance, finanzieren= , ...). =A0Ma to semblas ne-justa, nam lore on trovus (per nemediata deriva= do) =A0la sama substantivo "financo" ma kun altra senco (financement, =A0fi= nancing, Finanzierung). =A0Lore me pensis ke "financizar (o forsan financa= gar)" e "financizo (o =A0forsan financago)" povas expresar l'ideo di ca las= ta vorti, ka? Me =A0serchis en la reto e trovis ke kelka personi ja uzis la= vorti =A0financizar e financizo. =A0Strikte "financizar" ya signifikas ke= on "provizas per financo", ka =A0ne? Ma to ne es justa, nam on ne povas pr= ovizar per financo, nam =A0financo indikas fako. Me tamen opinionas ke on n= e devas esar tro =A0strikta ed aceptar "financizar". =A0Voluntez konsilar = me. :-) =A0Gratitudoze, =A0Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1852 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81766 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2005 13:39:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2005 13:39:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp7.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.24) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2005 13:39:49 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0706.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id CD1BD1C000BF for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:39:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf0702 (wwinf0702 [172.22.138.29]) by mwinf0706.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C8F651C000BC for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:39:37 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050808133937823.C8F651C000BC@mwinf0706.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <16733577.1123508377810.JavaMail.www@wwinf0702> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 15:39:37 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] helpo bezonata pri terminologio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=Ovkhi-k29_9EoSko6f5aHueM8ZZMeuKdlikEh0WzZeM8pB4 X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Steve, La franca-Ido dicionario di L.Couturat e de Beaufront donas " l= a haute finance : la alta financ-ist-aro " Amikale Loik > Message du = 06/08/05 14:37 > De : "Steve Walesch" > A : idolisto@yahoogroups.com, ling= uolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet : [linguo] Re: [ido] help= o bezonata pri terminologio > > On Friday 05 August 2005 12:05, Alfred Neu= ssner wrote: > > Me dicus "kurtfriste, longfriste" od eventuale > Yes, to s= emblas maxim oportuna. Me tamen dankas anke James, nam depende del > konte= xto diferanta solvi povas konvenar. Me joyas pri la diferanta propozi. > >= Nun me havas ankore altra questiono. "Financo" (la finance, EN: finance, d= as > Finanzwesen) es ya nomo dil fako, o dil ensemblo di financisti, dil "= mondo > financala". Ol tote ne povas indikar la "ago provizar firmo per kr= editi od > altra moyeni financala". > > Pro to me uzis "financar" (finan= cer, to finance, finanzieren, ...). Ma to > semblas ne-justa, nam lore on = trovus (per nemediata derivado) la sama > substantivo "financo" ma kun alt= ra senco (financement, financing, > Finanzierung). > > Lore me pensis ke = "financizar (o forsan financagar)" e "financizo (o forsan > financago)" po= vas expresar l'ideo di ca lasta vorti, ka? Me serchis en la > reto e trovi= s ke kelka personi ja uzis la vorti financizar e financizo. > > Strikte "f= inancizar" ya signifikas ke on "provizas per financo", ka ne? Ma to > ne e= s justa, nam on ne povas provizar per financo, nam financo indikas fako. >= Me tamen opinionas ke on ne devas esar tro strikta ed aceptar "financizar"= . > > Voluntez konsilar me. :-) > > Gratitudoze, > Steve [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1853 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56639 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2005 19:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Aug 2005 19:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.21) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 2005 19:40:22 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:39:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:39:51 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:39:51 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2005 19:39:51.0630 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1B33EE0:01C59C50] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: 'nam' e 'pro ke' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=J9odnEz9GxZIQ9KL0o27qPtMM90ihrg6CzKc21RFbdg X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Robert Ante kelka yari vu donis ecelanta exemplo por demonstrar la reala difero inter la senci di 'nam' e 'pro ke' en Ido. Ka vu povus, ek vua granda linguala savo, repetar ta exemplo? Predanko! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1854 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76301 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2005 20:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Aug 2005 20:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Aug 2005 20:15:56 -0000 Received: from gr.189.161.8.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.161.8] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1E2aVt-0006ZG-9o for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:15:54 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 21:19:57 +0100 Message-ID: <200589211957.244465@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] 'nam' e 'pro ke' X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=Rl6vOA5VY0E41LZjB2t7BMgB_WgP_aJbVzfeolm3Ooipt4o Kara James, Me ne memoras to quon me skribis. Tamen Dyer explikis la difer= o (Ido-English Dictionary, pagino 233). Dyer: "Pro ke" introduktas depend= anta propoziciono, qua kontenas motivo o pruvo por la chefa propoziciono pr= eiranta o sequanta; "nam" introduktas chefa frazo, qua kontenas anke motivo= o pruvo, ma nur por preiranta frazo, o tacita penso. Ex.: Pro ke pluvas, m= e ne ekiros. Me ne ekiros, nam pluvas. Per mea vorti: En "Pro ke pluvas, m= e ne ekiros" (o "Me ne ekiros, pro ke pluvas") on indikas ke la kauzo dil d= ecido ne ekirar esas (direte, explicite) la fakto ke pluvas. En "Me ne eki= ros, nam pluvas", la motivo dil decido ne ekirar esas same la fakto ke pluv= as, ma la relato esis (segun Dyer) min direta ed explicita. Min subtila es= as altra exemplo quan Dyer donas: "Esas matino, nam la uceli kantas". Esus = eroro, dicar, "Esas matino, pro ke la uceli kantas", nam la kauzo di matino= ne esas la fakto ke la uceli kantas! Yes, "On savas, pro ke la uceli kant= as, ke esas matino", ma la fakto ke la uceli kantas esas kauzo di la savo, = ne kauzo di la matino. En "Vu ne trovos il en la domo, nam me jus vidis il= en la strado", la vorto "nam" indikas la motivo o cirkonstanco por la unes= ma aserto ("Vu ne trovos il en la domo"). Altra exemplo da Dyer: "Ni irez = lente adheme, nam balde esos nokto". La fakto o kredo ke balde esos nokto e= sas la motivo o cirkonstanco dil intenco irar adheme. La vorto "nam" =3D A= ngla "since" o "for". La vorti "pro ke" =3D Angla "because". Robert. P.S.= On mustas skribar "kelka yari ante nun" por la Angla "some years ago". Vid= ez la expliko da de Beaufront en lua Kompleta Gramatiko Detaloza pri la dif= ero inter "ante kelka yari" e "kelka yari ante nun". ___________________ = James Chandler skribis: Kara Robert Ante kelka yari vu donis ecelanta exe= mplo por demonstrar la reala difero inter la senci di 'nam' e 'pro ke' en I= do. =A0Ka vu povus, ek vua granda linguala savo, repetar ta exemplo? Preda= nko! Kordiale, James Chandler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1855 Return-Path: X-Sender: izummm@mail.ru X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72309 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2005 17:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Aug 2005 17:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx3.mail.ru) (194.67.23.149) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2005 17:32:49 -0000 Received: from [213.27.43.4] (port=16339 helo=[213.27.43.4]) by mx3.mail.ru with esmtp id 1E2uRc-0009Az-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:32:48 +0400 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:30:29 +0400 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional Organization: ? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <61560136.20050810213029@mail.ru> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0 From: iZoommm Reply-To: iZoommm Subject: fingra nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=183493896; y=psiq_3cTPVkMMWf1Hh_XJv46X1sxlx68R6832KKLWglnWw Kara forumani, Me ne povis trovar irgaloke la nomi dil fingri (di manuo e di piedo). Kad ulu povas helpar a me pri to? -- Maxim bon deziri, iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1856 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36843 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2005 16:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Aug 2005 16:48:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.57) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Aug 2005 16:48:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 36742 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Aug 2005 16:48:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20050811164832.36740.qmail@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.54.238.240] by web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:48:31 CEST Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:48:31 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <61560136.20050810213029@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Partaka Subject: RE: [linguo] fingra nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=QR4XkF3TqnOIo5d7tY--3_dsfgUYBqyHYTigb9xsKl_CAKsAHHBlcfU X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, "iZoommm"! Voluntez serchar e lektar, che l'arkivi di Linguolisto, la anciena mesaji yena: #1331 e #1332 (18-9-04)... Ibe tu trovos ya plena respondo a tua suba questiono. Til balde! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * --- iZoommm skribis: --------------------------------- Kara forumani, Me ne povis trovar irgaloke la nomi dil fingri (di manuo e di piedo). Kad ulu povas helpar a me pri to? -- Maxim bon deziri, iZoommm -- Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1857 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97797 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2005 18:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Aug 2005 18:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Aug 2005 18:44:17 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:44:16 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:44:15 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <42fb8aab2ccff@wp.pl> To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:44:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2005 18:44:16.0170 (UTC) FILETIME=[ACD9B0A0:01C59EA4] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: Odp: [ido] Oklahoma-Urbo, la Separisti e la Misterioza Germano (4) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=5h2HUdDMZ4CC0XmYFrjz7VHcOWygVNEFKOFqbMm0nj8 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Estimata sro Jerzy Gralak Me povas konfirmar ke per 'cinemerio' me intencis: cinemo-produkteyo. Me tradukis la angla "film studio" (exemple MGM, Fox, Columbia). En Ido on povus anke dicar: film/if/erio >From: "Jerzy Gralak" >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: idolisto >Subject: Odp: [ido] Oklahoma-Urbo, la Separisti e la Misterioza Germano (4) >Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:28:11 +0200 > >Estimate amiko, James, > Ante minuto me parlektis vua mesajo e me dezirus nur questionar, >ka la vorto cinemerio singnifikas cimeno-produkteyo? >Me kolektas omna vortgi por mea privata dicionario Ido-Polona e >Polona Ido. >Me esperas, ke vu trovos tempo e respondos a me, >Kun saluti Jerzy Gralak/ Polonia, la lando ube Idismo esas rarajo. > > > > > > > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------- >Jennifer Connely w horrorze tw�rc�w "Ringu". >"Dark Water - Fatum" w kinach od 19 sierpnia. >http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=www.film.wp.pl%2Ffilm.html%3Fid%3D25190%26h%3D1&sid=461 > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li > >Partoprenez ye l'internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e >27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). >Invito ed anunc-formularo vu trovas ye: >http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Francia/Idorenkontro2005 > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1858 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 11129 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2005 16:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2005 16:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2005 16:31:32 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.52.185.89) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 42D22FB900330FAC for linguolisto@egroups.com; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:31:26 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5a1b7$416a4da0$59b93452@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:34:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Perplexiganta variebli X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=-oTZhhpQfs9lrJq020BVNxdDlaVV0sjkJgBdNtH0mOIBsZw X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Me gratulas Steve Walesch pri la bela Ida traduko di lua tezo "Bankala Relati Duriv e Barili Informala". Advere tradukar texto teknikala es tasko ne sempre facila. Forsan la texto povus ankore kelke polisesar, ma, quale dicis la Latina poeto, "ube lo maxim multa brilas..., me ne shokesos da poka makuli" (1). Kom tote ne-kompetenta profano, e surfacala lektinto, me ne povas adenirar la teknikalaji dil verko da S.W. Me havas nur un mikra remarko facenda. Ye pagino 28, esas "...variebli binara (dummy variables)...". Lektante ol, men perplexigis la stranja des-konkordo inter "binara" (vorto teknikala) e "dummy" (vorto konversatra). Segun mea savo, "dummy variable" es qualesala (kategoriala) varieblo, +quu generale prenas un ek du valori, kustumale 0 od 1: exemple, valoro 1 por maskulo, valoro 0 por femino. Se ul "dummy variable" povas prenar un ek du valori, ol esas - "DICHOTOMOUS variable" od "binary variable", Ide dikotomiala varieblo od binara varieblo. Maxim-multa-kaze on povas konsiderar "dummy variable" kom sam-senca kam "binary variable". Tamen, min freque, ul "dummy variable" povas prenar un ek plua kam du valori: exemple 0 por blond-hara, 1 por nigr-hara, 2 por red-hara, 3 por blank-hara e.c. Se ul "dummy variable" povas prenar un ek plua kam du valori, ol esas - "POLYCHOTOMOUS variable" ("ternary, quaternary... variable"), Ide polikotomiala* varieblo (ternara, quaternara... varieblo). Se me bone komprenas, en la tezo da S.W. la "dummy variable" SEKTORO povas prenar un ek tri valori, segun l'aparteno dil entraprezo a industrio, komerco, transporto. Do traktesas pri "ternary variable", Ide ternara varieblo. Se to es vera, semblas a me ke, en la kazo prezenta, traduko di "dummy variable" per "binara varieblo" ne es tote korekta, linguistike e matematike. Me opinionas ke on devus serchar apta traduko por "dummy" en kuntexto statistikala. Por to utilesas la relatanta AFGHIR-ajo: A dummy variable F variable fictive [fiktiva varieblo]; variable muette [muta varieblo] G fiktive Variable [fiktiva varieblo] H variable de holgura [konveno-varieblo]; variable ficticia [fiktiva varieblo] I variabile di comodo [konveno-varieblo]; variabile fittizia [fiktiva varieblo] R fiktivnaya pyeryemyennaya [fiktiva varieblo] Probable la maxim bona traduko di "dummy variable" es "fiktiva varieblo". ---------- (1) "Ubi plura nitent..., non ego paucis offendar maculis" - Horatius (Ars Poetica). ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1859 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27946 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2005 18:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2005 18:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2005 18:49:52 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.139]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 44021117 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:53:59 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:49:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <000501c5a1b7$416a4da0$59b93452@nardinic> In-Reply-To: <000501c5a1b7$416a4da0$59b93452@nardinic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508152049.49769.SPW@vo.lu> X-SpamDetect: **: 2.257000 Headers include an 'opt'ed phrase=1.2,Subject has lots of exclamation marks=1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Perplexiganta variebli X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=91qYLyPK7KwAa5cxygD6WtV7x8OadlI6Usjjb1lJtolSb-i_s4OL X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara Carlo Nardini,, kun grand intereso me lektis vua komenti. Me tote kon= cias la problemo quan la traduko di "varieble muette / dummy variable" per= "varieblo binara" povas genitar, ma me tamen justifikas pro quo me skribi= s "variebli binara". En la tezo on lektas: "DSEKTORO es vektoro di varieb= li binara (dummy variables) montrante l=E2=80=99aparteno dil entraprezo ad= un ek tri sektori (industrio, komerco, transporti)," (Ka ne "vektoro DE va= riebli binara"? Me kelkafoye dubitas pri l'elekto inter de e di) Pro ke o= l es *vektoro* ol ya kontenas plura variebli. Povas do existar varieblo bi= nara por singla sektoro. Se l'entraprezo apartenas al sektoro "komerco", n= ur la varieblo binara qua relatas ta sektoro valoras 1, e la du altra vari= ebli binara valoras 0. Me dicus ke la vektoro kontenanta la variebli binar= a forsan povas esar nomata polikotomiala/ternara varieblo, nam ol povas ha= var 3 diferanta valori; ta vektoro povas ya skribesar: "(1, 0, 0), (0, 1, = 0) o (0, 0, 1)" pro ke l'entraprezo mustas apartenar ad un (ed un sola) se= ktoro. Es tamen utila havar plu generala vorto (por kazi ube "varieblo bin= ara" es tote ne-justifikebla), e pro co "varieblo fiktiva" semblas apta, n= am internaciona. Kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1860 Return-Path: X-Sender: izummm@mail.ru X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54640 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2005 21:38:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Aug 2005 21:38:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx3.mail.ru) (194.67.23.149) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 2005 21:38:46 -0000 Received: from [213.27.43.4] (port=50087 helo=[213.27.43.4]) by mx3.mail.ru with esmtp id 1E4mfC-000Pqt-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:38:35 +0400 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:20:03 +0400 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional Organization: ? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1005846579.20050816012003@mail.ru> To: Partaka In-Reply-To: <20050811164832.36740.qmail@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <61560136.20050810213029@mail.ru> <20050811164832.36740.qmail@web26607.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: iZoommm Reply-To: iZoommm Subject: Re[2]: [linguo] fingra nomi X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=183493896; y=QeBuxMFG2l16vP290xeL573d4htvE0EMRZ80IL8ALhxZdg X-Yahoo-Profile: izoommm Kara Partaka, 11.08.2005, 20:48:31, vu skribis: P> Saluto, "iZoommm"! P> Voluntez serchar e lektar, che l'arkivi di P> Linguolisto, P> la anciena mesaji yena: #1331 e #1332 (18-9-04)... P> Ibe tu trovos ya plena respondo a tua suba questiono. P> Til balde! P> P A R T A K A P> * * * * * * * * Me gratitudas pro vua helpo afabla. -- Maxim bon deziri, Igor From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1861 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60464 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 01:40:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 01:40:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.32) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 01:40:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Aug 2005 01:40:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Aug 2005 01:40:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 01:40:39 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 69 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Strucho e daxo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=i6NX6QR-LtWHLnO5490GTSahrm94MfqJdrQLY0LMEuHP-5uoM0U X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar James Ka 'strucho' e 'daxo' esas sinonimi ? Amikale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1862 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74652 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 05:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 05:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp015.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.59) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 05:47:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 58012 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 05:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.70.1 with login) by smtp015.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 05:46:35 -0000 To: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:46:44 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c5a2ef$0ebdcb50$0146fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] Strucho e daxo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057; y=EbsV-p3X-Fl3dld05-uEjP5XkX2wqRseRTrUfYmpohiw3g X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono En la Ido-Angla vortolibro onu povas lektar: Strucho: ostrich (genus: Stru= thio [camelus]). Daxo: (zool.) badger (genus: Meles Taxus). Ma anke pri p= lusa vorti, exemple: Stulta: foolish, silly, senseless; (cf. Frivola); -(u= l)o: fool, booby, simpleton, e c. Esas vere lektinda nia vortari. Fernand= o Daxo. -----Mensaje original----- De: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com [mailt= o:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de jacquesdehe Enviado el: mi=E9rc= oles, 17 de agosto de 2005 3:41 Para: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [= linguo] Strucho e daxo Kar James Ka 'strucho' e 'daxo' esas sinonimi ? = Amikale, Jacques Yahoo! Groups Links ___________________= ___________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, = m=E1s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1863 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99260 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 06:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 06:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 06:59:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Aug 2005 06:58:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Aug 2005 06:58:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:58:38 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 89 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: la blinda daxo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=iqliXeP-azI3qml82QUF6R3iwd1Tco6tK0dhbwPS1UpCCmDxFdk X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Proverbo: Qua flatas omnu, plezas a nulu, ecepte a la blinda daxo. Amikale Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1864 Return-Path: X-Sender: krayono@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32150 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 14:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 14:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.225) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 14:53:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 10672 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 14:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alcali) (krayono@213.254.70.1 with login) by smtp105.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 14:53:26 -0000 To: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:53:23 +0200 Message-ID: <000001c5a33b$6c4c39e0$0146fed5@alcali> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Krayono" Subject: RE: [linguo] la blinda daxo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=143081057; y=QdR9fgWchlYTY4FoRURida_62kDBn7MaVdQv1aLJJ5kNrQ X-Yahoo-Profile: krayono Ta belega proverbon me lektis nulatempe altraloke, forsan olu extraktesas d= e Ido-edituro nekonocata a me. Voluntez savigar a me la adreso di la librer= io ube esas komprebla ta nova verko. Til lore singlu darfas lektar "Ido pro= verbaro" da Heinrich Peus, deskargebla de la fako "Ido-libri" che www.publi= kaji.tk o direte de la ligilo: http://es.geocities.com/krayono/idoproverbar= o.pdf Yen ula proverbi: Granda parolisto rare [esas] bona agisto. Vorti ne = plenigas sako. Hundi aboyanta ne mordas. E c. Bona lekto! (se onu ne esas = blinda, kompreneble) Fernando Daxo. -----Mensaje original----- De: linguo= listo@yahoogroups.com [mailto:linguolisto@yahoogroups.com] En nombre de jac= quesdehe Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 17 de agosto de 2005 8:59 Para: linguolis= to@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [linguo] la blinda daxo Proverbo: Qua flatas = omnu, plezas a nulu, ecepte a la blinda daxo. Amikale Jacques Ya= hoo! Groups Links _____________________________________________= _ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m=E1s seguridad http://co= rreo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1865 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48076 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 16:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 16:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.18) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 16:51:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:51:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:51:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 16:51:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2005 16:51:28.0002 (UTC) FILETIME=[E92FB620:01C5A34B] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: hovercraft e hydrofoil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=eHFwWqdDq43A0MUcDzvJeAX5EpUY_vm0NOsMciqDQsc X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kar amiki Inquestanto volas la Ido-vorti por "hovercraft" e "hydrofoil". Me serchis ma ne povas trovar ica du vorti. Kad ulu povas helpar? Predanko! Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1866 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22477 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 17:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 17:18:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.15) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 17:18:26 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:18:04 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:18:04 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 17:18:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2005 17:18:04.0653 (UTC) FILETIME=[A0DD51D0:01C5A34F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Strucho e daxo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=IM53mu_1ZqybY-wJew5gBKqM-UTmb6r3j9rnPBAnDVg X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Jacques strucho es animalo qua similesas Esperantisto. Nome lu havas longa kolo ed ensabligas ol, kun sua kapo, pro ke lu ne volas afrontar la realeso. daxo es sat mikra, kompatinda animalo kun nigra e blanka strii. Fakte me tre prizas daxi, ma ne struchi Esp-istatra. Ka vi ne havas daxi en Francia? Daxema saluti Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: "jacquesdehe" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] Strucho e daxo >Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 01:40:39 -0000 > > >Kar James > >Ka 'strucho' e 'daxo' esas sinonimi ? > >Amikale, > >Jacques > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1867 Return-Path: X-Sender: oceano@wanadoo.nl X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14678 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 21:31:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 21:31:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO notmail.wanadoo.nl) (194.134.194.154) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 21:31:27 -0000 Received: from smtp04.wanadoo.nl (smtp04.wanadoo.nl [194.134.35.144]) by notmail.wanadoo.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j7HLVMh9020145 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:31:22 +0200 (MEST) Received: from SHEILA (c51473997.cable.wanadoo.nl [81.71.57.151]) by smtp4.wanadoo.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2D243FE8 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:31:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.338 [267.10.10]); Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:31:25 +0200 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:31:25 +0200 Message-ID: <4303C8CD.19798.C7092@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: oceano@wanadoo.nl Subject: Re: [linguo] hovercraft e hydrofoil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=63791221; y=ndWHvBb9XGkQ-Qy13xKXwATH7k1INlGVCOoUUQDWfQWJdSQ X-Yahoo-Profile: vaganto1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara James, hovercraft - aero-kusena veturo Saluti amikala, Ronald Bijtenhoorn Heemskerk - Nederlando IDO - linguo internaciona: www.bijtenhoorn.nl/ido/ ----------------------------------------------------------- Andreas Juste: Ni darf esar fier esar Idisti! ----------------------------------------------------------- On 17 Aug 2005 at 16:51, James Chandler wrote: > > Kar amiki > > Inquestanto volas la Ido-vorti por "hovercraft" e "hydrofoil". Me serchis > ma ne povas trovar ica du vorti. > > Kad ulu povas helpar? > > Predanko! > > Kordiale, James Chandler > idojc@hotmail.com > http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index > http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home > http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido > > "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of > the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in > the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the > citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP > Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > * Visit your group "linguolisto" on the web. > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > linguolisto-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.10/73 - Release Date: 15-8-2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1868 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85724 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2005 21:52:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Aug 2005 21:52:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 2005 21:52:00 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.169.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.169] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1E5Vp4-000NMT-56; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:51:46 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto , IdoCatalaOccitan X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:32:13 +0100 Message-ID: <2005817223213.841637@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Angla A-D X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=eijpFHwou3LBiDdERndjVKEXupJ47xFtPOsikr2BZCOS16w A la lexiko Ido-Angla me jus adjuntis vorti qui komencas per la litero D. = Nun ol kontenas preske 4000 vorti. Me anke simpligis la aparo di la lexiko.= Voluntez trovar ol tale: idolinguo.org.uk/idana-d.htm Forsan ol esas uti= la anke nur pro la listo di Ido-vorti A-D, kontenante preske omna radiki. = Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1869 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72688 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2005 00:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Aug 2005 00:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.158) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 2005 00:48:12 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050818004810.OYNF7577.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:48:10 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.23] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050818004809.DNEJ1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.23]> for ; Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:48:09 +1200 To: Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:48:09 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050818004809.DNEJ1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.23]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] hovercraft e hydrofoil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=Q-wREyqvgBlDxpwYFAHiSd097VUSuyo2MdBdjUo47U6GVKpIABlsmMk X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara James, Hovercraft:-. Esperanto: =93kusenshipo=94 ma ta moyeno anke fun= cionas sur la tero do =93kusenvehilo=94 es plu apta, segun Ronald. Tamen = =93to hover=94 en Ido es =93flugetar=94, konseque vortopa tradukuro es =93f= lugetovehilo=94. Hydrofoil:- Esperanto: =93akvoglisilo=94 ma ta vorto suges= tas ke on glitas sur la surfaco di l=92aquo (quale =93hovercraft=94). Tamen= me kredas ke =93foil=94 es =93aleto=94 e per la formo di ta =93aleto=94 l= a vehilo plualteskas til ol es en l=92aero, ma la =93aleto=94 restas subme= rsita. Do me sugestas =94aqualeto=94 o mem =93hidraleto=94. Ido ofte uzas = =93hidro-=93 vice =93aquo-=94 por teknikala vorti. Amikale, Richard S. >= > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2005/08/18 Thu AM 04= :51:27 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] hove= rcraft e hydrofoil > > [Non-text portions of this message have been rem= oved] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1870 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25543 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2005 19:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Aug 2005 19:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.14) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Aug 2005 19:56:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:56:58 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.204 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:56:58 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:56:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Aug 2005 19:56:58.0876 (UTC) FILETIME=[2887CBC0:01C5A4F8] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=KfdaUONos8J_QQyfGUIeKRwb1fjjbEHWrlsfCABVqrA X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesanta propozo da Jerzy Gralak: >From: "Jerzy Gralak" >To: James chandler >Subject: Korespondado in Ido= pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko >Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:35:36 +0200 > = ---------- Kara amiko, James Me dankas pro Vua mesajo di 17 dil monato= kuranta pri la vorti re kosmala tekniko. Me pensas, ke la uzata vorto "nav= eto" o "spac-naveto" por "shuttle" (Angle) ne esas tro preciza - la naveto = sugestas ulo, qua es similatra a mikra nav/eto, e ne la aeroplano kun spacr= aketo. En multa lingui on nomas ol kom "suttle" e me pensas, ke se ulu lekt= as pri "shuttlo*" plu facile komprenos, pri quo on skribas kam se on uzos "= naveto". Me pensas, ke vu havas plu proxima kontaktos kun la Linguala Akade= mio kam me (ne konocata idisto). Me pensas, ke en la tempo di kosmala flugi= , la manko de vorti pri kosmo e kosmotekniko esas ne pardonebla eraro por l= a Linguala Akademio, di qua fundamentala tasko devas esar "in topo" di akad= emiani. Me pensas, ke vu kontaktesos kun respektiva personi e instsigos dor= manta akademiani e ne nur; vu povas per interreto kolektar nova propozi pri= kosmala tekniko por ke ni ne esez in kauda de altra lingui (ex. Interlingu= a). Ne omna vorti esas vezonata por uzar, ma li devis esar por "omna neceso= ". Kun saluti, Jerzy ------------------------------------------------= ---- Kevin Aiston: najs=B3ynniejszy polski stra=BFak i kobiety jego =BFycia= ! Czytaj na stronach viva.wp.pl http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fadv.r= eklama.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fv1.html&sid=3D470 [Non-text portions of this messa= ge have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1872 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97044 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 03:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 03:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.59) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 03:26:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 03:26:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 03:26:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 03:26:04 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 03:26:01 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 578 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: struchar* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=QhTx8_iBcnY_6un2luTji9Njd82dNNQ0AP5q5P2RJVPY_kR61j4 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara James, Yes la esperantisti kondutas quale struchi. La idisti NE bezonas struchar*... li esas blinda. Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > Kara Jacques > > strucho es animalo qua similesas Esperantisto. Nome lu havas longa kolo ed > ensabligas ol, kun sua kapo, pro ke lu ne volas afrontar la realeso. > > daxo es sat mikra, kompatinda animalo kun nigra e blanka strii. Fakte me > tre prizas daxi, ma ne struchi Esp-istatra. > > Ka vi ne havas daxi en Francia? > > Daxema saluti > > Kordiale, James Chandler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1873 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91531 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 05:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 05:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.58) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 05:17:40 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.193]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050820051735.CBUD1784.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:17:35 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.23] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050820051734.VQLP1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.23]> for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:17:34 +1200 To: Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:17:34 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20050820051734.VQLP1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.23]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=3UBv-Zv__8GfO4MH9o2X1Vhy-cXu9noOD5WS28pTM4oqyvwy1qjrPbs X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Kara James. Me anke sentas ke naveto por A: �shuttle� es neapta. Segun Ido-reguli, naveto = mikra navo, ma bazale, �shuttle� portas filo avane e retroe en texo-mashino. Semblas plu apta ke ni deskriptus la funciono, ne l�angla vorto kun Ido espelado. Ma kurta vorto ne es sempre posibla. Tamen me sugestas: �suplenaveto� (qua supleas nutrajo, aparato o viri a la granda spaconavo); o plu longa, �provizonaverto�; �konektonaveto�; �retronaveto�; "rivenonaveto� edc. Interesante, Espo. havas �navedo� = "shuttle", nam navo=A: �nave� (en kirko), ma la derivuro es nekomprenebla. Ultre, pro ke Ido mankas multa teknikala vorti, forsan mikra grupo d�experti povas sugestar apta vorti e la membraro povas votar per l�interreto. Ta moyeno es nuntempe tre facila e rapida e balde modernigos nia linguo. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "James Chandler" > Date: 2005/08/20 Sat AM 07:56:58 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko > > Interesanta propozo da Jerzy Gralak: > > >From: "Jerzy Gralak" > >To: James chandler > >Subject: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko > >Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:35:36 +0200 > > > > > ---------- > > Kara amiko, James > Me dankas pro Vua mesajo di 17 dil monato kuranta pri la vorti > re kosmala tekniko. > Me pensas, ke la uzata vorto "naveto" o "spac-naveto" por > "shuttle" (Angle) ne esas tro preciza - la naveto sugestas ulo, > qua es similatra a mikra nav/eto, e ne la aeroplano kun > spacraketo. En multa lingui on nomas ol kom "suttle" e me pensas, > ke se ulu lektas pri "shuttlo*" plu facile komprenos, pri quo > on skribas kam se on uzos "naveto". > Me pensas, ke vu havas plu proxima kontaktos kun la Linguala > Akademio kam me (ne konocata idisto). Me pensas, ke en la tempo > di kosmala flugi, la manko de vorti pri kosmo e kosmotekniko > esas ne pardonebla eraro por la Linguala Akademio, di qua > fundamentala tasko devas esar "in topo" di akademiani. > Me pensas, ke vu kontaktesos kun respektiva personi e instsigos > dormanta akademiani e ne nur; vu povas per interreto kolektar > nova propozi pri kosmala tekniko por ke ni ne esez in kauda de > altra lingui (ex. Interlingua). Ne omna vorti esas vezonata por > uzar, ma li devis esar por "omna neceso". Kun saluti, Jerzy > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Kevin Aiston: najs�ynniejszy polski stra�ak i kobiety jego �ycia! > Czytaj na stronach viva.wp.pl > http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fadv.reklama.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fv1.html&sid=470 > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1874 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62573 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 07:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 07:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 07:13:41 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 07:13:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 07:13:41 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:13:40 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20050820051734.VQLP1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.23]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 3066 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=utoUoVhiY_BKpTmk12x1Sz2bx5IRNT49UlswEjyU8ltqvyzsDB8 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar James, spaconabeto* ? (ja existas 'nabeto' =3D 'navette') Amikale, = Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > Kar= a James. > Me anke sentas ke naveto por A: "shuttle" es neapta. Segun Ido- = reguli, naveto =3D mikra navo, ma bazale, "shuttle" portas filo avane e re= troe en texo-mashino. Semblas plu apta ke ni deskriptus la funciono, ne l'= angla vorto kun Ido espelado. Ma kurta vorto ne es sempre posibla. Tamen m= e sugestas: "suplenaveto" (qua supleas nutrajo, aparato o viri a la grand= a spaconavo); o plu longa, "provizonaverto"; "konektonaveto"; "retronaveto= "; > "rivenonaveto" edc. Interesante, Espo. havas "navedo" =3D > "shuttle"= , nam navo=3DA: "nave" (en kirko), ma la derivuro es nekomprenebla. > Ultr= e, pro ke Ido mankas multa teknikala vorti, forsan mikra grupo d'experti p= ovas sugestar apta vorti e la membraro povas votar per l'interreto. Ta moy= eno es nuntempe tre facila e rapida e balde modernigos nia linguo. Amikal= e, Richard S. > > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > Date: 2= 005/08/20 Sat AM 07:56:58 GMT+12:00 > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >= Subject: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala teknik= o > > > > Interesanta propozo da Jerzy Gralak: > > > > >From: "Jerzy Gral= ak" > > >To: James chandler > > >Subject: = Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko > > >Date: Wed, 17 Aug= 2005 23:35:36 +0200 > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > Kara amiko, = James > > Me dankas pro Vua mesajo di 17 dil monato kuranta pri la vorti > = > re kosmala tekniko. > > Me pensas, ke la uzata vorto "naveto" o "spac-nav= eto" por > > "shuttle" (Angle) ne esas tro preciza - la naveto sugestas ulo= , > > qua es similatra a mikra nav/eto, e ne la aeroplano kun > > spacraket= o. En multa lingui on nomas ol kom "suttle" e me pensas, > > ke se ulu lekt= as pri "shuttlo*" plu facile komprenos, pri quo > > on skribas kam se on uz= os "naveto". > > Me pensas, ke vu havas plu proxima kontaktos kun la Lingua= la > > Akademio kam me (ne konocata idisto). Me pensas, ke en la tempo > > = di kosmala flugi, la manko de vorti pri kosmo e kosmotekniko > > esas ne pa= rdonebla eraro por la Linguala Akademio, di qua > > fundamentala tasko deva= s esar "in topo" di akademiani. > > Me pensas, ke vu kontaktesos kun respek= tiva personi e instsigos > > dormanta akademiani e ne nur; vu povas per int= erreto kolektar > > nova propozi pri kosmala tekniko por ke ni ne esez in k= auda de > > altra lingui (ex. Interlingua). Ne omna vorti esas vezonata por= > > uzar, ma li devis esar por "omna neceso". Kun saluti, Jerzy > > > > = > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------= - > > Kevin Aiston: najs=B3ynniejszy polski stra=BFak i kobiety jego =BFyci= a! > > Czytaj na stronach viva.wp.pl > > http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=3Dhttp%3A%2= F%2Fadv.reklama.wp.pl%2Fas% 2Fv1.html&sid=3D470 > > > > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > = > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1875 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34722 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 09:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 09:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.21) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 09:25:27 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 02:25:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:25:25 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:25:25 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2005 09:25:25.0445 (UTC) FILETIME=[18B2D750:01C5A569] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: Odp: FW: Re: [linguo] hovercraft e hydrofoil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=9Qw5MRqIaE0Z-kn4S_3VNAeksF5gEWmAnyWjXy1_yb0 X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Plusa komenti da sro Gralak: >From: "Jerzy Gralak" >T= o: James Chandler >Subject: Odp: FW: Re: [linguo] hover= craft e hydrofoil >Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:09:32 +0200 > ---------- = Kara James, Me dankas kordiale pro vua mesajo dil hodie,19-ma dil kuranata= monato. Me pensas, ke segunvoropa tradukuro ne esas bona; ol povas endukta= r miskompreno. Me pensas pri la vere teknikala vorti internacionigita e kom= prenata da omnu. Exemple en la Polona suttle nomizesas "wahadlowiec" e segu= nvorta tradukuro devus esar balanciera navo. Me pensas, ke plej multa landi= vice pensar pri nova vorti aceptas ja aceptita vorti e komprenaata da altr= i. Me pensas, ke la vorto "shutlo a shutlo esus la maxim bona, Ma regretind= e mea opiniono esos ignorata da alte edukita akademio linguala, qua laboras= mi- rapide. Saluti Jerzy. ----------------------------------------= ------------ We=BC udzia=B3 w naszym letnim konkursie AlleJazda! G=B3=F3wna= nagroda to Nisan Micra! http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fadv.reklama.= wp.pl%2Fas%2Faj.html&sid=3D472 [Non-text portions of this message have= been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1876 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33965 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 09:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 09:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.46) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 09:46:22 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 02:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.209 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:46:22 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:46:22 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2005 09:46:22.0457 (UTC) FILETIME=[05EFA690:01C5A56C] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=UK2WDI0oyILFs5YLhQDx6he5zLHcHDyTNypaAVw03Jk X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Jacques, Segun Dyer: nab.o = nave; hub (of wheel) nabet.o = rape (la agro-planto flava, de quo on extraktas oleo) Ka vu miskomprenis? >From: "jacquesdehe" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala >tekniko >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:13:40 -0000 > >Kar James, > >spaconabeto* ? > >(ja existas 'nabeto' = 'navette') > >Amikale, > >Jacques > >* >--- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Kara James. > > Me anke sentas ke naveto por A: "shuttle" es neapta. Segun Ido- >reguli, naveto = mikra navo, ma bazale, "shuttle" portas filo avane >e retroe en texo-mashino. Semblas plu apta ke ni deskriptus la >funciono, ne l'angla vorto kun Ido espelado. Ma kurta vorto ne es >sempre posibla. Tamen me sugestas: "suplenaveto" (qua supleas >nutrajo, aparato o viri a la granda spaconavo); o plu >longa, "provizonaverto"; "konektonaveto"; "retronaveto"; > > "rivenonaveto" edc. Interesante, Espo. havas "navedo" = > > "shuttle", nam navo=A: "nave" (en kirko), ma la derivuro es >nekomprenebla. > > Ultre, pro ke Ido mankas multa teknikala vorti, forsan mikra grupo >d'experti povas sugestar apta vorti e la membraro povas votar per >l'interreto. Ta moyeno es nuntempe tre facila e rapida e balde >modernigos nia linguo. Amikale, Richard S. > > > > > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > > Date: 2005/08/20 Sat AM 07:56:58 GMT+12:00 > > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di >kosmoala tekniko > > > > > > Interesanta propozo da Jerzy Gralak: > > > > > > >From: "Jerzy Gralak" > > > >To: James chandler > > > >Subject: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko > > > >Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:35:36 +0200 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > Kara amiko, James > > > Me dankas pro Vua mesajo di 17 dil monato kuranta pri la vorti > > > re kosmala tekniko. > > > Me pensas, ke la uzata vorto "naveto" o "spac-naveto" por > > > "shuttle" (Angle) ne esas tro preciza - la naveto sugestas ulo, > > > qua es similatra a mikra nav/eto, e ne la aeroplano kun > > > spacraketo. En multa lingui on nomas ol kom "suttle" e me pensas, > > > ke se ulu lektas pri "shuttlo*" plu facile komprenos, pri quo > > > on skribas kam se on uzos "naveto". > > > Me pensas, ke vu havas plu proxima kontaktos kun la Linguala > > > Akademio kam me (ne konocata idisto). Me pensas, ke en la tempo > > > di kosmala flugi, la manko de vorti pri kosmo e kosmotekniko > > > esas ne pardonebla eraro por la Linguala Akademio, di qua > > > fundamentala tasko devas esar "in topo" di akademiani. > > > Me pensas, ke vu kontaktesos kun respektiva personi e instsigos > > > dormanta akademiani e ne nur; vu povas per interreto kolektar > > > nova propozi pri kosmala tekniko por ke ni ne esez in kauda de > > > altra lingui (ex. Interlingua). Ne omna vorti esas vezonata por > > > uzar, ma li devis esar por "omna neceso". Kun saluti, Jerzy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > Kevin Aiston: najs�ynniejszy polski stra�ak i kobiety jego �ycia! > > > Czytaj na stronach viva.wp.pl > > > http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fadv.reklama.wp.pl%2Fas% >2Fv1.html&sid=470 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1877 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6219 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 10:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 10:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 10:25:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 10:24:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 10:24:26 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:24:23 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4121 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=IOl-T2FBzqUNj30Dnl0jtxiCnlabxFuVegJLEnpNSlTjzYVb1sA X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar James, En http://es.geocities.com/kanaria1973/dicidofranca.html#nie = (dicionario ido-frances) on trovas: nabet.o navette ! ! ! Pliz korektig= ez. Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Cha= ndler" wrote: > Jacques, > > Segun Dyer: > nab.o =3D nave; h= ub (of wheel) > nabet.o =3D rape (la agro-planto flava, de quo on extraktas= oleo) > > Ka vu miskomprenis? > > >From: "jacquesdehe" > >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.c= om > >Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoa= la > >tekniko > >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 07:13:40 -0000 > > > >Kar James, >= > > >spaconabeto* ? > > > >(ja existas 'nabeto' =3D 'navette') > > > >Amik= ale, > > > >Jacques > > > >* > >--- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > > Kara James. > > > Me anke sentas ke naveto por A: "sh= uttle" es neapta. Segun Ido- > >reguli, naveto =3D mikra navo, ma bazale, "= shuttle" portas filo avane > >e retroe en texo-mashino. Semblas plu apta k= e ni deskriptus la > >funciono, ne l'angla vorto kun Ido espelado. Ma kurta= vorto ne es > >sempre posibla. Tamen me sugestas: "suplenaveto" (qua suple= as > >nutrajo, aparato o viri a la granda spaconavo); o plu > >longa, "prov= izonaverto"; "konektonaveto"; "retronaveto"; > > > "rivenonaveto" edc. Inte= resante, Espo. havas "navedo" =3D > > > "shuttle", nam navo=3DA: "nave" (en= kirko), ma la derivuro es > >nekomprenebla. > > > Ultre, pro ke Ido mankas= multa teknikala vorti, forsan mikra grupo > >d'experti povas sugestar apt= a vorti e la membraro povas votar per > >l'interreto. Ta moyeno es nuntempe= tre facila e rapida e balde > >modernigos nia linguo. Amikale, Richard = S. > > > > > > > > > > > From: "James Chandler" > > > > Date: = 2005/08/20 Sat AM 07:56:58 GMT+12:00 > > > > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.co= m > > > > Subject: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di > >kosm= oala tekniko > > > > > > > > Interesanta propozo da Jerzy Gralak: > > > > >= > > > >From: "Jerzy Gralak" > > > > >To: James chandle= r > > > > >Subject: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoa= la tekniko > > > > >Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:35:36 +0200 > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > > > Kara amiko, James > > > > Me= dankas pro Vua mesajo di 17 dil monato kuranta pri la vorti > > > > re ko= smala tekniko. > > > > Me pensas, ke la uzata vorto "naveto" o "spac-naveto= " por > > > > "shuttle" (Angle) ne esas tro preciza - la naveto sugestas u= lo, > > > > qua es similatra a mikra nav/eto, e ne la aeroplano kun > > > >= spacraketo. En multa lingui on nomas ol kom "suttle" e me pensas, > > > >= ke se ulu lektas pri "shuttlo*" plu facile komprenos, pri quo > > > > on s= kribas kam se on uzos "naveto". > > > > Me pensas, ke vu havas plu proxima = kontaktos kun la Linguala > > > > Akademio kam me (ne konocata idisto). Me = pensas, ke en la tempo > > > > di kosmala flugi, la manko de vorti pri kos= mo e kosmotekniko > > > > esas ne pardonebla eraro por la Linguala Akademio= , di qua > > > > fundamentala tasko devas esar "in topo" di akademiani. > >= > > Me pensas, ke vu kontaktesos kun respektiva personi e instsigos > > >= > dormanta akademiani e ne nur; vu povas per interreto kolektar > > > > no= va propozi pri kosmala tekniko por ke ni ne esez in kauda de > > > > altra= lingui (ex. Interlingua). Ne omna vorti esas vezonata por > > > > uzar, m= a li devis esar por "omna neceso". Kun saluti, Jerzy > > > > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----------------------------------------= ----------- > > > > Kevin Aiston: najs=B3ynniejszy polski stra=BFak i kobie= ty jego =BFycia! > > > > Czytaj na stronach viva.wp.pl > > > > http://klik= .wp.pl/?adr=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fadv.reklama.wp.pl%2Fas% > >2Fv1.html&sid=3D470 >= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this m= essage have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Y= ahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1878 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15166 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 10:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 10:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 10:41:32 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.63]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 44434493 for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 12:45:51 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 12:41:27 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508201241.28423.SPW@vo.lu> X-SpamDetect: *****: 5.257000 Headers include an 'opt'ed phrase=1.2,Subject has lots of exclamation marks=1.0,Aspam=3.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=E-mORgbO2XHVzxlgbnvjwmzkcuyFq_Y80WH2RkB29ypKA-QX5HHD X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El S=E1bado 20 Agosto 2005 12:24, jacquesdehe escribi=F3: > En http://es.ge= ocities.com/kanaria1973/dicidofranca.html#nie > nabet.o navette ! ! ! Me ju= s regardis en la dicionario da Couturat / de Beaufront: navette (=E0 tisser= , =E0 encens) nav-eto; faire la navette: irar e venar, ocilar; (esp. de nav= et) nabeto Omno quo relatas "navigar" bezonas "v". Pro ke la dicionario qu= an vu indikas es ye Hispana adreso, me imaginas ke forsan l'autoro mixis l= a literi "b" e "v", pro ke Hispani ofte pronuncas "v" quale "b". amikale,= Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1879 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8975 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n4.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 10:51:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:51:49 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200508201241.28423.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 788 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=ohJgTSrckt3_Mrf-NUJ8OvW_qZoI1GSjTfeJLPdwn5R-df63134 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar Steve, La eroro ne es hispana, ma kanadana ! En http://lavaleo.trip= od.com/Idofrancais-n.html on trovas: nabet.o navette ! ! ! Amikale, Jac= ques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Steve Walesch wrot= e: > El S=E1bado 20 Agosto 2005 12:24, jacquesdehe escribi=F3: > > En http:= //es.geocities.com/kanaria1973/dicidofranca.html#nie > > nabet.o navette ! = ! ! > Me jus regardis en la dicionario da Couturat / de Beaufront: > navett= e (=E0 tisser, =E0 encens) nav-eto; > faire la navette: irar e venar, ocila= r; (esp. de navet) nabeto > > Omno quo relatas "navigar" bezonas "v". Pro = ke la dicionario quan vu indikas > es ye Hispana adreso, me imaginas ke f= orsan l'autoro mixis la literi "b" e > "v", pro ke Hispani ofte pronuncas= "v" quale "b". > > amikale, > Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1880 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33014 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 11:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 11:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 11:24:17 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.63]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 44436792 for ; Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:28:27 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 13:24:06 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508201324.07115.SPW@vo.lu> X-SpamDetect: *****: 5.257000 Headers include an 'opt'ed phrase=1.2,Subject has lots of exclamation marks=1.0,Aspam=3.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=M6sv4mESilMADhH_AWu8x_F4UmBApQnBMN24xADJBcu6NWYgkoSP X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El S=E1bado 20 Agosto 2005 12:51, jacquesdehe escribi=F3: > Kar Steve, > La= eroro ne es hispana, ma kanadana ! > En http://lavaleo.tripod.com/Idofranc= ais-n.html > on trovas: nabet.o navette ! ! ! Me nun poke reflektis e nun m= e pensas ke ol ne vere es *eroro*. La "problemo" es ke la Franca vorto nave= tte havas plura signifiki. Kande me vidas la vorto "navette", me quik pens= as pri vehilo: "v=E9hicule =E0 court parcours et =E0 trajet r=E9p=E9t=E9 (n= avette spaciale: engin con=E7u pour effectuer plusieurs fois le trajet ent= re la Terre et une station orbitale)" Ma "nabeto" relatas: plante voisine = du colza, dont les graines fournissent une huile La Franca vorto havas an= kore plusa signifiki... Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1881 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77722 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2005 11:41:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Aug 2005 11:41:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.67) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Aug 2005 11:41:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 11:41:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 11:41:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2005 11:41:25 -0000 Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 11:41:24 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200508201324.07115.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1259 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekniko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=exKQMsvYfcIeNf0OdbVkAivzqmyVjHvT3s0CjTRKyV8afd4P-tc X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar Steve, * Yes la Franca vorto 'navette' havas plura signifiki. Anke = me, kande me vidas la Franca vorto 'navette', me pensas pri vehilo, la si= gnifiko aktuala. La signifiko botanikala es tre rara. * Notez la expres-= manieri: - Hispana: naveta espacial - Portugala: naveta espacial - Itali= ana: navetta spaziale - Franca: navette spatiale - Angla: space shuttle = - Esperanto: spaca naveto (da Google) * Amikale, Jacques * --- In ling= uolisto@yahoogroups.com, Steve Walesch wrote: > El S=E1bado 20 A= gosto 2005 12:51, jacquesdehe escribi=F3: > > Kar Steve, > > La eroro ne es= hispana, ma kanadana ! > > En http://lavaleo.tripod.com/Idofrancais-n.html= > > on trovas: nabet.o navette ! ! ! > Me nun poke reflektis e nun me pens= as ke ol ne vere es *eroro*. > La "problemo" es ke la Franca vorto navette = havas plura signifiki. Kande me > vidas la vorto "navette", me quik pensa= s pri vehilo: > "v=E9hicule =E0 court parcours et =E0 trajet r=E9p=E9t=E9 (= navette spaciale: engin con=E7u > pour effectuer plusieurs fois le trajet= entre la Terre et une station > orbitale)" > Ma "nabeto" relatas: plante= voisine du colza, dont les graines fournissent une > huile > > La Franc= a vorto havas ankore plusa signifiki... > Amikale, > Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1882 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70292 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2005 16:42:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2005 16:42:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.14) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2005 16:42:46 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 21 Aug 2005 09:42:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.207 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:42:46 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:42:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2005 16:42:46.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BD67850:01C5A66F] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: Odp: FW: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di kosmoala tekni ko X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=h35XfoJ05mM0uwfQeNSmN90SGkOxPdz9H9C5W8Yayuw X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From: "Jerzy Gralak" >To: James Chandler >Subject: Odp: FW: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vort= i di >kosmoala tekni ko Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:11:25 +0200 > ------= ---- Kara James, Me par-lektis la mesajo dil 21-ma di agosto, 2005 super = le mea sugesto krear nova vorti teknikala. Me pensas, ke vu ed altra Idisti= pensas, ke la maxim voyo por krear nova vorti esas la traduko teknika vort= i ek la nacionala linguo (ex emple la vorto "hovercraft" aerakusena veturo)= , qua povas esar por normala Idisti, qui rare pensas pri la vorto-signifiku= ri, ma por teknikisti neacetebla. Me pensas, ke on ne devas pensar pri defi= nuri, nur pri la apta e komprenebla vorti. Me pensas, ke en ca casa hoverkr= afto* esus la maxim bona, Pro quo ankorefoye deskovrar ja deskovrita e bone= funcionas en la mondo. Saluti, Jerzy --------------------------= -------------------------- 26 sierpnia w Stoczni Gda=F1skiej koncert J.M.Ja= rre'a - "To b=EAdzie m=F3j najlepszy koncert - koncert wolno=B6ci" - zapowi= edzia=B3 artysta. http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=3Dwww.muzyka.wp.pl%2Fjarre&sid=3D4= 68 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1883 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94887 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2005 16:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2005 16:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2005 16:51:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2005 16:50:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2005 16:50:01 -0000 Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:49:58 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1081 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: hoverkrafto* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=SgtpihSkJWivxgWb_OLVyGavuD0KJxRliRUVDdYs_G31Cdoxe-g X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Jerzy e James, Me konkordas ke hoverkrafto* esus la maxim bona tradukuro. Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "James Chandler" wrote: > >From: "Jerzy Gralak" > >To: James Chandler > >Subject: Odp: FW: Re: [linguo] FW: Korespondado in Ido pri la vorti di > >kosmoala tekni ko Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:11:25 +0200 > > > > > ---------- > > Kara James, > > Me par-lektis la mesajo dil 21-ma di agosto, 2005 super le mea > sugesto krear nova vorti teknikala. > Me pensas, ke vu ed altra Idisti pensas, ke la maxim voyo por > krear nova vorti esas la traduko teknika vorti ek la nacionala > linguo (ex emple la vorto "hovercraft" aerakusena veturo), qua > povas esar por normala Idisti, qui rare pensas pri la > vorto-signifikuri, ma por teknikisti neacetebla. > Me pensas, ke on ne devas pensar pri definuri, nur pri la apta > e komprenebla vorti. Me pensas, ke en ca casa hoverkrafto* esus > la maxim bona, Pro quo ankorefoye deskovrar ja deskovrita e bone > funcionas en la mondo. Saluti, Jerzy From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1884 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82863 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2005 17:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Aug 2005 17:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.67) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Aug 2005 17:59:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2005 17:59:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2005 17:59:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Aug 2005 17:59:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:59:51 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 215 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: orikteropo* ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=mY-aymSVs98uXapbmSWpj1m81biS7wkJJkRyqqEAIer3kPrQ5NY X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe [eng.: aardvark] [span.: oricteropo] [port.: orict=E9ropo] [fr: o= ryct=E9rope] [germ.: Erdferkel] [it.: oritteropo] [dutch: aardvark= en] [esper.: orikteropo] [lfn: ardvark] Amikale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1885 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2259 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2005 11:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2005 11:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2005 11:28:21 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n5.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2005 11:26:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2005 11:26:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2005 11:26:45 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:26:44 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2154 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Medilingua X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=F7KM_yhutPXkHz2w9QF_urdOeiKLGDet5dGbUoQEUv-2P_iET5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara James, Me es membro de Auxlang Dialog, ma me ne povas skribar ibe (my address is 'bouncing'). Me komencas nun introduktar la vorti medilinguala dil teksto sub-citata en mea dicionario multilinguala 'EUROCLONES' videbla en la 'Archivos' de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo. Iste vorti medilinguala esos videbla de morge dop la noviala vorti, exemple [...] [novial: idee] [medilingua: idea] [...]. Amikale, Jacques * > Esque le idea pri cosmopolita lingua es realisabil per cooperation? ================================================================== > Le suposition ke on, per cooperation da autores e propageres de diverse lingua-sistemes cosmopolita, va pover parformar sintese superant iles omni es kimeresc. Nam si mem vel esser possibil unificar le maxim bon detales de iste sistemes ... cosa dubitabil, nam morfemes exelante in un sisteme non sempre es apte in altre ... le prestij-aviditate e le invidia impedi le diverse sistem-autores e su associates recognoscer le real valore del concurante sistemes. Or existe un ancora plu grave impedimento contra tal intersistemal cooperation: grande stokes de literatura, in kel es investat grande capitales. Radical amelioration de iste sistemes vel diminuer le valore de su literatur-aglomerationes til nule e nihil. Tamen le ducteres de iste sistemes demanda cooperation. Pluri veces nos ha recevat invitationes ke le Novialistas deve cooperar con iles, ma cooperar com su satelites subordinat! Or anke autores de nove sistem-projetes clama a nos: "Lass nos cooperar!" Ma pri le principies, le metodes e le programes de cooperation iles tace! Es apena probabil ke iste siniores ha elaborat su sistemes solmente por dissoluer iles e per le componentes de iles formar nove sisteme. On pove conjecturar ke anke iste autores percepte "le marshal-bastone in su dorse-sac". Or existe un metode kel promisa prosperitate. E de Wahl ha practicat te metode durante multi anos, e nos Novialistas ha practicat il ja depos le debute de Novial. Es le simple metode, ameliorar su propre lingua. Per Ahlberg, Novialiste 13, aprile 1937 Traductet in Medilingua: Novial moderne James Chandler From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1886 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1857 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2005 08:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2005 08:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.45) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2005 08:40:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2005 08:39:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Aug 2005 08:39:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:39:54 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 216 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: individualismema* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=NGHiNhwxtuXo8bh_uy6avbcDU4LTusj_B3lk90gbb0COD9azZXc X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar James, La plumulto dil idisti esas ex-esperantisti qui esis mala mutoni en la esperantala mutonaro, individualismema, ne submisebla . . . Konseque la idistaro es desfacile jerebla ! Amikale, Jacques * From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1887 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38440 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2005 23:58:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Aug 2005 23:58:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2005 23:58:55 -0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050823235853.QKQY1498.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:58:53 +1200 Received: from [210.86.15.32] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050823235853.LMEW1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.32]> for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:58:53 +1200 To: Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:58:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20050823235853.LMEW1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.32]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] hoverkrafto* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=zaF3KG0cDMWr4au3_ojj6AMLmLYSwDsqiUVVysWtnk7x3kwTMsjjSho X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kara Jacques, Vua sugesto di *hovercrafto en Ido es apogita da Italia, Portugal, Rusia e Nederlando qui uzas la angla vorto "hovercraft". Ma se Ido es linguo internaciona me asertas ke nia linguo devas deskriptar la funciono, nam la precipua lingui di Europa agas la sama. Franca: aeroglisseur Germana: luftkissenfahrzeug Hispana: aerodeslizador, anke Esperanto: kusenshipo. Tradukuro ad Ido donas *kusennavo, *flugetnavo, o, kusen- veturo, flugetveturo nam ta aparato povas uzar aquo e tero. Kustume me ne amas angla vorto kun Ido espelado. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "jacquesdehe" > Date: 2005/08/22 Mon AM 04:49:58 GMT+12:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] hoverkrafto* > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1888 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1582 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2005 19:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2005 19:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.33) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 2005 19:41:23 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:41:02 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.203 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:41:01 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:41:01 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2005 19:41:02.0028 (UTC) FILETIME=[C24520C0:01C5A8E3] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Letro de J. Gralak X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=IPob13XteUEDrZpguSDqwwZFYI6rmhkfN6VMQMFPMCQ X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc >Cara Robert,- > >Nia korespondado pri la kosmomautiko ed altra tekniki, qui >cirkumas ni, me recevis hodie mesajo pri la nova vorto, nome >"hovercraft" en Ido. Me pensas, ke la vorto "hoverkrafto"* esus >konsiderata da vu e da altra akademiani, pro la fakto, ke >propozita vorti tradukita ad Ido:"kusennavo", flugetnavo", >"flugetveturo" o "aerkusen-veturo" povas esar akceptata, kande >on dicas pri tekniko kosmala (spacala) omnadiale dum privata >konversaciono, ma kande on ja komencas serioza e ciencoza paroli, >la uzado di vorti diverse tradukita en multa landi, ne esas >acetebla e rekomendinda, ad ante omno, erorigiva. Ni, Idisti, e ne nur, se >ni deziras esti serioze traktata en la >mondo teknikala e teknologiala, ni devas nepre krear teknikala >vorti sur la bazo dil Gerka e Romana terminaro. >La maxim multa landi progresiva e ludanta granda rolo en ca >domeno, uzas la vorti ja bone konocata en ca >landi.Ameriko,Anglia, Germania, Rusia e atra landi uzas "shuttle, >hoverkraft", ni anke povas uzar "shutlo" (o shutelo), >"hoverkrafto" e.a. > >Kun saluti Jerzy Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1889 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69402 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2005 22:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Aug 2005 22:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 2005 22:01:17 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.99]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 45091886 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:05:53 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:01:14 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508280001.15432.SPW@vo.lu> X-SpamDetect: **: 2.257000 Headers include an 'opt'ed phrase=1.2,Subject has lots of exclamation marks=1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: maxim apta prepoziciono X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=EG0eL41_wC5MJjH8zxbBHLz-JqQoY17J5v6N2-HSBDCaKTZV-tC- X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Qua es la maxim apta prepoziciono en expresuri tal quala ici? l'efekto dil= konkurenco XXXX la relati bankala l'influo di Luno XXXX la vetero Me rema= rkis ke me ofte uzis =C2=ABsur=C2=BB en tala kazi, ma nun semblas a me ke t= o es forsan =C2=ABFrancajo=C2=BB ed ol ne tre bone korespondas al generala= signifiko di ta prepoziciono. Ka =C2=ABpor=C2=BB ne es plu apta? O forsan= altra prepoziciono? Pluse me joyus se afabla persono povus tradukar ca fr= azo en Ido: =C2=ABDes =C3=A9conomies de co=C3=BBt se r=C3=A9percutent sur l= a tarification.=C2=BB Me predankas e salutas vi kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1890 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12591 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2005 09:04:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2005 09:04:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.43) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2005 09:04:11 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 02:04:09 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.210 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:04:09 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200508280001.15432.SPW@vo.lu> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 09:04:09 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2005 09:04:09.0994 (UTC) FILETIME=[73C676A0:01C5ABAF] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] maxim apta prepoziciono X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=gu6LWNZ7jTkvCNxUV63HNYmvhXyxzzwOVOBOdd3S6TY X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Steve En la du kazi quin vu citis, on darfas sempre uzar 'ye', la nedefinita prepoziciono inkluzita juste por tal uzo. Segun me 'sur' es komprenebla, ma ne logikoza (Couturat ne aprobabus!) Regretinde me ne povas vidar la specala literi en vua franca frazo - ka vu povus risendar ol kun sen-supersigna literi? >From: Steve Walesch >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [linguo] maxim apta prepoziciono >Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:01:14 +0200 > >Qua es la maxim apta prepoziciono en expresuri tal quala ici? > >l'efekto dil konkurenco XXXX la relati bankala >l'influo di Luno XXXX la vetero > >Me remarkis ke me ofte uzis «sur» en tala kazi, ma nun semblas a me ke to >es >forsan «Francajo» ed ol ne tre bone korespondas al generala signifiko di >ta >prepoziciono. Ka «por» ne es plu apta? O forsan altra prepoziciono? > >Pluse me joyus se afabla persono povus tradukar ca frazo en Ido: >«Des économies de coût se répercutent sur la tarification.» > >Me predankas e salutas vi kordiale, >Steve > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1891 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84462 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2005 09:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2005 09:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2005 09:26:06 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.192.197]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 45131682 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:24:24 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:19:47 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200508281119.47763.SPW@vo.lu> X-SpamDetect: **: 2.257000 Headers include an 'opt'ed phrase=1.2,Subject has lots of exclamation marks=1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] maxim apta prepoziciono X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=j8OVtXMekympBNqRqv6RLKQsnI75-rzcGKJ2kFJ9DjDtHC5QZISl X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch James skribis: > >l'efekto dil konkurenco XXXX la relati bankala > >l'influ= o di Luno XXXX la veter > En la du kazi quin vu citis, on darfas sempre uza= r 'ye', la nedefinita > prepoziciono inkluzita juste por tal uzo. Segun me= 'sur' es komprenebla, > ma ne logikoza (Couturat ne aprobabus!) Yes, pro t= o me volas chanjar "sur". Ka "por" ne es apta, nam pos reflekto ol semblas= a me sat logikoza? > Regretinde me ne povas vidar la specala literi en vu= a franca frazo - ka vu > povus risendar ol kun sen-supersigna literi? Des e= conomies de cout se repercutent sur la tarification. La problemi es la vort= o "tarification" (tarif =3D tarifo) e "se repercutent sur". (Relate la spe= cala signi: Ka vu vidis mea cito-hoketi =C2=AB=C2=BB? Me volis komencar uz= ar li vice "", pro ke semblas ke to es la justa maniero en Ido) Kordiale, = Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1892 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 42735 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 13:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 13:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp3alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.143) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 13:42:05 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.48.247.128) by vsmtp3alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 430EF2A100062281 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:40:15 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5ad68$dfdaf540$80f73052@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:43:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=E9opold_Leau?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=I9A7AO4eby3lecTnVFtbJPv2bay_6_G7JpYsOqGBaEr7bHY X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Skribis James Chandler che Idolisto: <<< Inquestanto volas saveskar la nasko-dato e morto-dato di nia Ido-pioniro L�opold Leau. En la reto on trovas pluraloke la nasko-yaro 1868. Ma la morto-yaro diferas: 1935, 1940 ec. James Chandler >>> <<< Leau esis sat importanta matematikisto. Segun plura artikli, il esis pioniro ne nur di Ido, ma anke di 'racionala funcioni'. Lua laboro kontributis (segun mea kompreno) a la laboro da Gaston Julia, famoza pro la Julia-ensemblo, simpla fraktalo. Pose Benoit Mandelbrot popularigis la laboro da Julia, e lua Mandelbrot-ensemblo (komplexa fraktalo, e la maxim famoza fraktal-imajo) fondesas sur la Julia-ensemblo. James Chandler >>> Segun mea fonti, L�opold Leau naskis ye la 6 Aprilo 1868 en Courlon (Yonne, Francia), e mortis ye la 28 Decembro 1943, probable en St. Germain-en-Laye (Francia). Lua nekrologo da Hans Cornioley, kun fotografuro, aparis en PROGRESO, Januario-Junio 1944, N. 138 (1). Pri la kontributo da Leau a la verki da Julia, e konseque da Mandelbrot, me trovis la informo da J.C. extreme interesanta (2). Fakte, me ipsa, kom diletanto, dum la lasta Krist-naskala vakanci, departante de tre simpla matematika formulo, facis facinanta (segun me) komputorala programo, por krear persone la Mandelbrot-ensemblo (Mandelbrot-set), e por explorar, per plugrandigi, lua senfina astonigiva marveli (3). ---------- (1) En la nekrologo en Progreso, L�opold Leau divenas Louis Leau, me kredas pro (frequa) eroro. (2) "Trovar to interesanta", es expresuro kritikata da la puristi, segun qui on devas dicar "judikar to kom interesanta", "opinionar ke to es interesanta" e.c. Ta expresuron me defendis en mea mesajo a Linguolisto, N. 684, 10 Feb 2002. (3) Obvie* existas, ank en Internet, multa profesionala programi. Ma lo "facita da su ipse" satisfacas plue. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1893 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99678 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2005 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Aug 2005 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.25) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 2005 16:20:29 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:20:27 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.202 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:20:27 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <000501c5ad68$dfdaf540$80f73052@nardinic> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:20:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2005 16:20:27.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB8187C0:01C5AD7E] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] L�opold Leau X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=w14mG8r0m7m4QjL3mMetmVsP-9HUBi5niCkmzftOkdM X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara sro Nardini Maxim kordiale me dankas vu pro vua suba informo pri Leau. Me es certa ke 'Louis Leau' es eroro, e la nekrologo vere koncernas Leopold Leau. Mea Usana inquestanto esos tre kontenta pro vua informo. >From: "Carlo Nardini" >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: "Linguolisto" >Subject: [linguo] L�opold Leau >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:43:55 +0200 > > >Skribis James Chandler che Idolisto: > ><<< Inquestanto volas saveskar la nasko-dato e morto-dato di nia >Ido-pioniro >L�opold Leau. >En la reto on trovas pluraloke la nasko-yaro 1868. Ma la morto-yaro >diferas: >1935, 1940 ec. >James Chandler >>> > ><<< Leau esis sat importanta matematikisto. Segun plura artikli, il esis >pioniro ne nur di Ido, ma anke di 'racionala funcioni'. Lua laboro >kontributis (segun mea kompreno) a la >laboro da Gaston Julia, famoza pro la Julia-ensemblo, simpla fraktalo. >Pose Benoit Mandelbrot popularigis la laboro da Julia, e lua >Mandelbrot-ensemblo >(komplexa fraktalo, e la maxim famoza fraktal-imajo) fondesas sur la >Julia-ensemblo. James Chandler >>> > >Segun mea fonti, L�opold Leau naskis ye la 6 Aprilo 1868 en Courlon (Yonne, >Francia), e mortis ye la 28 Decembro 1943, probable en St. Germain-en-Laye >(Francia). > >Lua nekrologo da Hans Cornioley, kun fotografuro, aparis en PROGRESO, >Januario-Junio 1944, N. 138 (1). > >Pri la kontributo da Leau a la verki da Julia, e konseque da Mandelbrot, me >trovis la informo da J.C. extreme interesanta (2). >Fakte, me ipsa, kom diletanto, dum la lasta Krist-naskala vakanci, >departante de tre simpla matematika formulo, facis facinanta (segun me) >komputorala programo, por krear persone la Mandelbrot-ensemblo >(Mandelbrot-set), e por explorar, per plugrandigi, lua senfina astonigiva >marveli (3). > >---------- > >(1) En la nekrologo en Progreso, L�opold Leau divenas Louis Leau, me kredas >pro (frequa) eroro. > >(2) "Trovar to interesanta", es expresuro kritikata da la puristi, segun >qui >on devas dicar "judikar to kom interesanta", "opinionar ke to es >interesanta" e.c. >Ta expresuron me defendis en mea mesajo a Linguolisto, N. 684, 10 Feb 2002. > >(3) Obvie* existas, ank en Internet, multa profesionala programi. Ma lo >"facita da su ipse" satisfacas plue. > >---------- > >Carlo Nardini > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1894 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5463 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2005 21:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2005 21:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2005 21:49:09 -0000 Received: from gr.189.168.166.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.168.166] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EAwvj-000Apa-U5; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:49:08 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto , IdoCatalaOccitan X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 22:40:30 +0100 Message-ID: <200591224030.467743@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Angla: literi A-E X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=l6ha1t80Yn6UmL3WohY8ym86tLYgMQcYGfdsMMQbflaKEew A la lexiko Ido-Angla me adjuntis vorti komencanta per la litero "E" (cirku= me 900 vorti). La nombro (A - E) esas cirkume 4700 vorti (ed expresuri). = Voluntez trovar ol tale: idolinguo.org.uk/idan1.htm Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1895 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43534 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2005 15:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2005 15:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60817.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.225) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2005 15:27:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 59660 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Sep 2005 15:27:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20050902152754.59658.qmail@web60817.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60817.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:27:54 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20050818004809.DNEJ1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[210.86.15.23]> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [linguo] hovercraft e hydrofoil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308; y=WI7RjZhoA2r1JUm4SmwByXdcrL5cqtx6DNLpe55F6v63vYmn1A X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Me propozas "hidroptero" segun la modelo dil franca "hydropt=E8re" por angl= a "hydrofoil". La greka radiko "pter" signifikas "alo", quale en "helikopte= ro". Tale la propozata vorto esas sat preciza. En la nederlandana on dica= s "vleugelboot" (al-batelo). Por teknikala vorti me opinionas ke radik= i greko-latina esas preferinda vice angla vorti. rich.steven@xtra.co.nz s= kribis: Hydrofoil:- Esperanto: =93akvoglisilo=94 ma ta vorto sugestas ke o= n glitas sur la surfaco di l=92aquo (quale =93hovercraft=94). Tamen me kred= as ke =93foil=94 es =93aleto=94 e per la formo di ta =93aleto=94 la vehilo= plualteskas til ol es en l=92aero, ma la =93aleto=94 restas submersita. D= o me sugestas =94aqualeto=94 o mem =93hidraleto=94. Ido ofte uzas =93hidro-= =93 vice =93aquo-=94 por teknikala vorti. ______________________________= ____________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the bes= t spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of thi= s message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1896 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49588 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2005 10:17:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2005 10:17:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.33) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 10:17:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 03:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.201 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 10:16:26 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 10:16:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2005 10:16:26.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B1F30B0:01C5B070] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: FW: korespondado pri nova vorti teknikala X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=aeHwePwlRBoOFfc1wgLGqwEyxPSysQPBKjiol_gty1E X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From: "Jerzy Gralak" >To: James chandler >Subject: korespondado pri nova vorti teknikala >Date: Fri, 2 Sep = 2005 22:08:43 +0200 > ---------- Kara James, Me dankas pro tua mesajo= de hodie pri nova vorti, ma me havas problemo, ka me povas enduktar li ad = en mea dicionario. Me timas, ke la vorti ne esos aceptota da sioro Carnagha= n e Neusser. Me pensas, ke la vorti ne esas tro teknikala e plu tradukita = ad Ido, vice trovata en la teknikala literaturo.Ankorefoye me dankas e pens= as, ke omna nova vorti tu sendos a mi informo. Kun saluti Jerzy --= --------------------------------------------------- Dr Randka - wizyty domow= e ju=BF od 31.08. Super fun na DVD! Zabaw=EA rozkr=EAca Will Smith. Hitch -= na p=F3=B3kach w dobrych sklepach i wypo=BFyczalniach. http://klik.wp.pl/?= adr=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fadv.reklama.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fhitch.html%23tu&sid=3D485 = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1897 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30522 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2005 20:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2005 20:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 20:59:51 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.141.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.141] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1ECO3y-0006Fg-OG; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:59:35 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto , IdoCatalaOccitan X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:46:58 +0100 Message-ID: <200595214658.912323@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 2: F-K X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=IvcuSCTwfRl4LvYO-qRnMhgUqHNb3gP9JJdFadgm3oRfveE Lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 2 (literi F - K), kun cirkume 3135 vorti, esas nun= ye la pagino: http://idolinguo.org.uk/idan2.htm Alternative, irez al pagi= no precipua, e trovez la voyo de ibe: http://idolinguo.org.uk Ol esas la d= uesma ek quar parti. Ol inkluzas poka vorti derivita, ed esas min sorgoze k= ontrolita kam la unesma parto, ma me kredas ke ol esas sat bona. Anke, me n= e volas ke lektanti vartez multa monati ankore por havar adminime relative = kompleta lexiko. Me ja laboras dum yari pri la lexiki, do ne subite facis l= a listi! Tamen, recente me laboris multe por "plenigar la trui". Uzante la= granda laboro da L.H. Dyer kom bazo, me kredas ke me korektigis poka erori= (parte imprimala), e kelkfoye modernigis la Angla vortaro uzita da lu, omi= sante obsoleta vorti ed inkluzante plu moderna vorti. Anke inkluzita esas p= lu nova Idala vorti. La listo kontenas nur Idala vorti oficala, e nula vort= i propozata. Voluntez raportar irga problemi od erori. Robert. ________ = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1898 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35084 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2005 18:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2005 18:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2005 18:22:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2005 18:21:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2005 18:21:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:21:52 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 254 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Novial Nostalgio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=kdHdehkARGAaB-ailOfTBf5jZJkQnVB6i6pDZfibc9TScQvRFU8 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Pos Ido, Novial rinaskas de sua cindri por partoprenar a la granda heredajo dil Iali dil 20ma yarcento. 'Euroclones', en la Arkivi de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo, montras un voyo . . . la disponebligo dil granda Iali dil 20ma yarcento. Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1899 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21904 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2005 10:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2005 10:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.25) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 10:49:24 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf0609.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 62EB22400129 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:49:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf0601 (wwinf0601 [172.22.137.28]) by mwinf0609.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 5F7912400128 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:49:23 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050908104923391.5F7912400128@mwinf0609.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <8412859.1126176563375.JavaMail.www@wwinf0601> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:49:23 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: publika transporti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=ihQ9XXQpqK2wCWrHf9vcbRqGO0-UUwZ6-7azProKLHg1ftY X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar Idisti, Sube me donas mea opiniono pri kelka vorti pri la publika trans= porti quan me trovis en mea dicionario Franca_Ido di Couturat e de Beaufron= t: - 1) G: Metro, U-Bahn H: metro, metropolitano A: subway, underground F:= m=C3=A9tro, m=C3=A9tropolitain I: metro, metropolitana R: ? Espo: metroo= , subtera fervojo, subfera fervojo Ido: urbala fervoyo (segun la Franca-Ido= Dicionario di Couturat e de Beaufront) Me opinionas ke "urbala fervoyo" es= as tro longa e povus anke esar definar la tramvoyo. La diminutivo metro esa= s tre internaciona ma ja uzita kom mezurunajo en Ido. Semblas a me ke "subt= ero" o "subtervoyo" esus preferinda a "urbala fervoyo". - 2) G: Stra=C3= =9Fenbahn A: tramway F: tramway H: tranv=C3=ADa I: tranvia R: ? Espo: tr= amo, tramvojo Ido: tram-voyo (segun la Franca-Ido Dicionario di Couturat e = de Beaufront) Ka la vorto "tramo" esus anke posibla en Ido quale en Espo? -= 3) G: Transportkarren A: trolley F: trolley, trolleybus H: trole, troleb= =C3=BAs I: filobus R: ? Espo: trolebuso Ido: *troleo (segun la Franca-Ido= Dicionario di Couturat e de Beaufront) Ka la vorto trolebuso esus anke pos= ibla en Ido ? Me predankas vu pro vua respondo Amikale Loik [Non-text port= ions of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1900 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79096 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2005 18:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2005 18:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.60) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 18:11:54 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2005 18:11:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2005 18:11:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2005 18:11:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 18:11:42 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8412859.1126176563375.JavaMail.www@wwinf0601> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 455 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: publika transporti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=nNpxS3v-RBEiuESXcfdk1snHCSljxF0OzT-JTlIiWVty5LA X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Lo=EFc, > G: Metro, U-Bahn > H: metro, metropolitano > A: subway, und= erground > F: m=E9tro, m=E9tropolitain > I: metro, metropolitana > R: ? >= Me opinionas ke "urbala fervoyo" esas tro longa e povus anke esar definar= la tramvoyo. Me adjuntas ke en Buenos Aires, Arjentinia, ca transporto n= omesas "subterr=E1neo", t.e.: subteral(aj)o. Forsan ta formo esus suficant= e deskriptiva dil transporto por olua uzado en Ido. Amikale, Eduardo A. R= ODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1901 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20219 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2005 14:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2005 14:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2005 14:57:27 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2005 14:57:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2005 14:57:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:57:03 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 248 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Novial Nostalgio X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=hBSx9hO8n-HYRsXQYLdZvQefhXsZ6yp9y2DGt_1ZW13LGGykaiI X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Pos Ido, Novial rinaskas de sua cindri por partoprenar a la granda heredajo dil Iali dil 20ma yarcento. 'Euroclones', en la Arkivi de Linguamundi Yahoo Grupo, montras un voyo . . . la disponebligo dil granda Iali dil 20ma yarcento. Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1902 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75871 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2005 22:27:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2005 22:27:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2005 22:27:17 -0000 Received: from gr.189.165.88.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.165.88] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EFJEr-0006Lx-5u; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:26:53 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:31:10 +0100 Message-ID: <2005913233110.630725@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Provizora lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 3: L-R X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=yIAOEbe9sdRxPxct8WfCsDxQV8g-bgd5kU-7-q7B1Wbw-Yo Nun esas provizora lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 3: L-R (262 KB), ye: http://ido= linguo.org.uk La adreso dil pagino esas: http://idolinguo.org.uk/idan3.ht= m La nombro di vorti (ed expresuri) en la triesma parto esas 3565. Robert= . From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1903 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 202 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2005 22:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2005 22:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2005 22:20:24 -0000 Received: from gr.189.169.161.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.169.161] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EG25O-0008F4-1i; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:20:06 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:17:35 +0100 Message-ID: <2005915231735.891792@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200509141400.28659.SPW@vo.lu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [ido] Provizora lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 3: L-R X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=7ylwEP0SPAdiofIgNcAbXAjGBEse4T72KHi_ddPdjF1vMdI Kara Steve, Parti 2 e 3 (e future 4) di la lexiko Ido-Angla esas provizora= (o certe plu provizora kam parto 1), nam me ne tante sorgoze kontrolis la = tradukuri kam por parto 1. Me kontrolis parto 1 recente, ma skribis la altr= a parti dum yari, komencante kande un intenco esis minimigar la grandeso di= l dokumento. Pluse, quale vu supozas, me inkluzis en parti 2 e 3 nur poka v= orti derivita; Dyer donas multe plu multa vorti derivita. Malgre to, me ch= anjis en kelka kazi la tradukuri donita da Dyer, omisante Angla vorti qui e= sas arkaika od obsoleta ed adjuntante vorti plu moderna. Dyer donas ulakaze= Britaniana espelo, ed altrakaze Usana espelo, sen evidenta motivo. Me esfo= rcas donar sempre Britaniana espelo o vorto, ma (kun negrava ecepti) anke U= sana espelo o vorto quan me indikas per "[US]". En tre poka kazi me kredas= ke Dyer eroris, tamen sat rare. En kelka kazi, ma ne ofte, lu ne eroris ma= ne esis sat klara pri qua senco di Angla vorto plursenca korespondas al se= nco di la Idala vorto. (To esas problemo plu ofta en la min detaloza lexiki= Ido-Franca ed Ido-Hispana.) En sat multa kazi (videz lua nekompleta eroro-= listo) la lexiko da Dyer kontenas erori tipografala (nam la tipografisti ne= komprenis la texto), e me esforcas maxim ofte eliminar li e ne introduktar= tro multa nova erori! La laboro facita da Dyer esis grandega e remarkinde= bona, e mea lexiko debas multege a lua verko quan me grandparte nur simple= kopiis. Tamen Dyer donas anke multa utila exempli, konsili, e kompari inte= r simila vorti, e kelkfoye mem defini (en Ido). Do la laboro da la Usana Id= isti, qui kopias lua lexiki al Internet, esas anke valoroza. Pluse, me ink= luzas nur vorti oficale adoptita (sat multa vorti en Dyer mustis imprimesar= kun asterisko, pro ke li esis lore ne adoptita), e me adjuntis centi de vo= rti propozita ed adoptita dum la yardeki pos Dyer. Esas kelka Idala vorti = (maxim ofte ne en Dyer) quin me omisis, sive pro ke me ne povis certe desko= vrar la senco, sive pro ke me ne povis deskovrar Angla vorto. En ula kazi D= yer o (plu ofte) altru donis "Angla vorto" ma du bona Angla dicionarii ne i= nkluzas ol! Plu certa e kompleta lexiko bezonos ankore multega hori de lab= oro. Kelkfoye me trovas ke mem un vorto bezonas mi-horo de serchado tra div= ersa lexiki! Se me kontrolus omno tante sorgoze kam por parto 1, un o du ya= ri ankore pasus ante arivo al fino. Dume, esas altra Idala laboro qua varta= s. Do, "perfekteso" (relativa) mustas vartar! Ideale, on komparus - por om= na vorto - adminime Dyer, Pesch, la lexiko Franca-Ido e la lexiki Ido-Germa= na e Germana-Ido. Me ne facis to e ne povas! Tamen de tempo a tempo, ube me= sentas bezono, me komparas plura lexiki. Semblas ke Pesch eroras plu ofte = kam Dyer. Videz exemple la senco di "kokleo" (parto dil orelo, o molusko?) = en Dyer ("anat.") e Pesch ("molusko"). Forsan la vorto bezonas havar amba s= enci, ma esas Dyer qua konkordas kun la lexiko Franca-Ido e kun la lexiko I= do-Germana. Tamen, me kredas ke "mea" lexiko esas ja sat bona por esar uti= la, mem sen konsidero di la fakto ke la stoko di la lexiko Ido-Angla da Dye= r esas exhaustita (o preske exhaustita), e tale ke la afero urjas. Laste, = me klavagas mea texto per klavaro, pensante (plu o min kurte) pri omna vort= o quan me skribas - adminime teorie, ma forsan dormeti intervenas! Robert.= _____________ Steve Walesch skribis: Robert skribis: >=A0Nun esas provi= zora lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 3: L-R (262 KB), ye: >=A0http://idolinguo.org.= uk >=A0La adreso dil pagino esas: >=A0http://idolinguo.org.uk/idan3.htm >= =A0La nombro di vorti (ed expresuri) en la triesma parto esas 3565. Ta labo= ro es extreme utila por l'Idistaro. Quon vu nomas "provizora" lexiko? Kad o= l kontenas min vorti (me supozas ke en l'originala Dyer trovesas plu kam 35= 65 vorti ye L-R)? O kad ol es min atenceme verifikita pos l'enskanigo? Omna= kaze me gratulas vu pro vua diligenta laboro. Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1904 Return-Path: X-Sender: mtw@view.net.au X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2489 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2005 06:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2005 06:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO calypso.view.net.au) (150.101.74.34) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2005 06:05:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D6E1416 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:47 +0930 (CST) Received: from calypso.view.net.au ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01558-07 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:27 +0930 (CST) Received: by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2ED4B3E17; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.view.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACC01416 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:24 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:35:24 +0930 (CST) To: Linguolisto In-Reply-To: <2005915231735.891792@SonyFX805> Message-ID: References: <2005915231735.891792@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Michael Talbot-Wilson Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: [ido] Provizora lexiko Ido-Angla, parto 3: L-R X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193102248 Kara Robert, Granda danko pro grandega laboro dum multa yari. Amikale, Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1905 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53791 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2005 06:28:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2005 06:28:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2005 06:28:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2005 06:28:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2005 06:28:17 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:28:16 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 357 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: granda danko pro grandega laboro X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=ozY3_gcDj9zWXXFNQ95IksCydpUoK0wrRnxDLQaz_cDkpjhWqZ8 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Robert e kara James Kara Robert, granda danko pro grandega laboro dum multa yari. Kara James, granda danko pro grandega laboro dum multa yari. Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote: > Kara Robert, > > Granda danko pro grandega laboro dum multa yari. > > Amikale, > Michael Talbot-Wilson From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1906 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78741 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2005 21:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2005 21:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2005 21:21:49 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.194.21]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 46839388 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:25:29 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:20:06 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509162320.06566.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=YhyMpE97HdHrrpONf1p_icSKr1WBasrdsEPJqOXhlI-vhR9IJBNX X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kad ol es oficala vorto en Ido? EN: significative FR: significatif DE: signifikativ ES: significativo IT: significativo RU: ? Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1907 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73958 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2005 03:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2005 03:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2005 03:19:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2005 03:19:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2005 03:19:23 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:19:23 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509162320.06566.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 271 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=hcXPtDgWElbcjbD2vLYzEa9k5a3pAsru9mOgTwxtcAO84To2w1A X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe RU: znachitelny=EF Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com= , Steve Walesch wrote: > Kad ol es oficala vorto en Ido? > EN: s= ignificative > FR: significatif > DE: signifikativ > ES: significativo > IT= : significativo > RU: ? > > Amikale, > Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1908 Return-Path: X-Sender: izja@nextmail.ru X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52986 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2005 21:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2005 21:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nextmail.ru) (83.222.5.149) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2005 21:57:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 34211 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2005 21:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?213.27.43.11?) (213.27.43.11) by nextmail.ru with SMTP; 17 Sep 2005 21:56:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 01:57:01 +0400 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional Organization: Top Secret X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <6910011939.20050918015701@sha.rnd.su> To: jacquesdehe In-Reply-To: References: <200509162320.06566.SPW@vo.lu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: iZoommm Reply-To: iZoommm Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=236099980; y=DgereilyLUdR6jVYjC8CGIWnoZr4-hPZToDRrbqq151pBg X-Yahoo-Profile: izoommm Kara jacquesdehe, 17.09.2005, 7:19:23, vu skribis: j> RU: znachitelnyi j> Amikale, j> Jacques j> * j> --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Steve Walesch wrote: >> Kad ol es oficala vorto en Ido? >> EN: significative >> FR: significatif >> DE: signifikativ >> ES: significativo >> IT: significativo >> RU: ? >> >> Amikale, >> Steve Ma segun Angla-Rusa dicionario "significative" es "ukazyvajuschij". Kad Ide to ne es "indikanta", "montranta", "konstatanta" ? -- Maxim bon deziri, iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1909 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58628 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 02:10:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 02:10:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.66) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 02:10:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 02:10:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 02:10:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 02:10:27 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 02:10:25 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6910011939.20050918015701@sha.rnd.su> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 819 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=_actY44YXTdUto4f6iAItEZ1HlSYK6uuL9gEMWQpnQR3QrJGs5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe EN: significative FR: significatif DE: signifikativ ES: significativo IT: significativo ne havas exakte la sama feldo semantikala. La parto komuna es 'znachitelnyi' Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, iZoommm wrote: > Kara jacquesdehe, > > 17.09.2005, 7:19:23, vu skribis: > > j> RU: znachitelnyi > > j> Amikale, > j> Jacques > > j> * > > j> --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Steve Walesch wrote: > >> Kad ol es oficala vorto en Ido? > >> EN: significative > >> FR: significatif > >> DE: signifikativ > >> ES: significativo > >> IT: significativo > >> RU: ? > >> > >> Amikale, > >> Steve > > Ma segun Angla-Rusa dicionario "significative" es "ukazyvajuschij". > Kad Ide to ne es "indikanta", "montranta", "konstatanta" ? > > -- > Maxim bon deziri, > iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1910 Return-Path: X-Sender: izja@nextmail.ru X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52388 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 17:21:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 17:21:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nextmail.ru) (83.222.5.149) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 17:21:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 34925 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 17:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?213.27.43.11?) (213.27.43.11) by nextmail.ru with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 17:21:08 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:18:02 +0400 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional Organization: Top Secret X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <89118094.20050918211802@sha.rnd.su> To: jacquesdehe In-Reply-To: References: <6910011939.20050918015701@sha.rnd.su> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: iZoommm Reply-To: iZoommm Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=236099980; y=0vapTrhQzWZRpeC3kszUmtRAe_coPJWgwNNbKx5kWVthsQ X-Yahoo-Profile: izoommm Kara jacquesdehe, 18.09.2005, 6:10:25, vu skribis: j> EN: significative j> FR: significatif j> DE: signifikativ j> ES: significativo j> IT: significativo j> ne havas exakte la sama feldo semantikala. j> La parto komuna es 'znachitelnyi' Ta senco havas la vorto 'significant' ('havanta signifiko di ...'). Per modifikantaji la 'significative' havas senco - 'KAPABLA havar signifiko di ...', 'indikanta ke ...' -- Maxim bon deziri, iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1911 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14012 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 18:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 18:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 18:05:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 18:05:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 18:05:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:05:28 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <89118094.20050918211802@sha.rnd.su> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 844 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=9QbJ1wE72hDd70IDPQ9rL5WpqrjP6oBwB5BZ5noPK0bLASkX1z0 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe FR: significatif = znachitelnyi EN: significative ne tradukas FR: significatif ma EN: significant tradukas FR: significatif EN: significative FR: significatif DE: signifikativ ES: significativo IT: significativo is not correct because includes faux amis ! Amikale Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, iZoommm wrote: > Kara jacquesdehe, > > 18.09.2005, 6:10:25, vu skribis: > > j> EN: significative > j> FR: significatif > j> DE: signifikativ > j> ES: significativo > j> IT: significativo > > j> ne havas exakte la sama feldo semantikala. > > j> La parto komuna es 'znachitelnyi' > > > Ta senco havas la vorto 'significant' ('havanta signifiko di ...'). > Per modifikantaji la 'significative' havas senco - 'KAPABLA havar > signifiko di ...', 'indikanta ke ...' > > > -- > Maxim bon deziri, > iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1912 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64469 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 18:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 18:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 18:16:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 18:16:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Sep 2005 18:16:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:16:49 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1155 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=6v7525SqEjb7EiVNh-NJa5BjYbyuNVvpeQAmaSxC5w6psniqblc X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Rusa amiko, Sincere congratulations: Russian tenniswomen wins magnificently the Fed Cup final in Paris ! Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > FR: significatif = znachitelnyi > > EN: significative > ne tradukas FR: significatif > > ma EN: significant > tradukas FR: significatif > > > EN: significative > FR: significatif > DE: signifikativ > ES: significativo > IT: significativo > > is not correct because includes faux amis ! > > Amikale > > Jacques > > * > > > --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, iZoommm wrote: > > Kara jacquesdehe, > > > > 18.09.2005, 6:10:25, vu skribis: > > > > j> EN: significative > > j> FR: significatif > > j> DE: signifikativ > > j> ES: significativo > > j> IT: significativo > > > > j> ne havas exakte la sama feldo semantikala. > > > > j> La parto komuna es 'znachitelnyi' > > > > > > Ta senco havas la vorto 'significant' ('havanta signifiko di ...'). > > Per modifikantaji la 'significative' havas senco - 'KAPABLA havar > > signifiko di ...', 'indikanta ke ...' > > > > > > -- > > Maxim bon deziri, > > iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1913 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35538 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 18:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 18:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 18:39:22 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.193.125]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 47001145 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:41:25 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:35:57 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509182035.58645.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=SztUkl11ts6cVSBQKkb_KCfKwQcpnIplnT5sTjg9a4vR-Kk7EW3t X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch jacquesdehe skribis: > EN: significative ne tradukas FR: significatif > ma EN: significant tradukas FR: significatif > EN: significative FR: significatif [...] > is not correct because includes faux amis ! En mea dicionario on tradukas EN: significative => FR: significatif e EN: significant => FR: signifiant/substantiel Forsan la difero inter la du Angla vorti es tre mikra. Ka vu es certa ke li es falsa amiki? E se me ne darfas uzar *signifikativa, qua vorton ka me darfas uzar vice ol? Ka ni havas altra vorti kun simila signifiko? (Vorti kom "grava" od "importanta" -pri qui me ja pensis- ne es satisfacanta pro ke li es tro diferanta de *signifikativa.) Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1914 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43337 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 21:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 21:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 21:13:35 -0000 Received: from gr.189.168.153.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.168.153] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EH6Te-000CNO-5n; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:13:34 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto , IdoCatalaOccitan X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:45:09 +0100 Message-ID: <200591821459.526266@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Franca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=ecPl-V0xF9Zg1LaKa3xmAiUjX-KVQWrXJPvVwbk-hkeYb6A Nova provizora lexiko Ido-Franca (11,595 vorti) havas la adreso: idolinguo= .org.uk/idfr.htm Alternative, uzez la adreso http://idolinguo.org.uk e seq= uez la voyo Franca. Voluntez raportar irga problemi od erori. Danko. Robe= rt. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1915 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63120 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2005 22:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2005 22:17:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2005 22:17:27 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.124.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.124] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EH7TL-000FeW-6S for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 23:17:19 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:59:36 +0100 Message-ID: <2005918225936.415532@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200509182035.58645.SPW@vo.lu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=pQwSBRh9WyT0xzj9TOX00iAwI_i11zlzpbt0bbzFsZI15M0 Kara Steve, La Angla vorto 'significative', kun qua me ne esas familiara (= ol esas supozeble sat rara), havas segun dicionario du senci: 'indicative; = significant'. Do me tradukus ol aden Ido per 'indikanta' (rare forsan 'indi= kiva') o 'signifikanta'. Robert. __________________ Steve Walesch skrib= is: jacquesdehe skribis: >=A0EN: significative ne tradukas FR: significati= f >=A0ma EN: significant tradukas FR: significatif >=A0EN: significative FR= : significatif [...] >=A0is not correct because includes faux amis ! En mea= dicionario on tradukas EN: significative =3D>=A0FR: significatif e EN: sig= nificant =3D>=A0FR: signifiant/substantiel Forsan la difero inter la du Ang= la vorti es tre mikra. Ka vu es certa ke li es falsa amiki? E se me ne darf= as uzar *signifikativa, qua vorton ka me darfas uzar vice ol? Ka ni havas a= ltra vorti kun simila signifiko? (Vorti kom "grava" od "importanta" -pri qu= i me ja pensis- ne es satisfacanta pro ke li es tro diferanta de *signifika= tiva.) Amikale, Steve Yahoo! Groups Links From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1916 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13596 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2005 11:23:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2005 11:23:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.63) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2005 11:23:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2005 11:23:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2005 11:23:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2005 11:23:21 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:23:21 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200591821459.526266@SonyFX805> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 434 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: Lexiko Ido-Franca X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=yDLPkvz_A2T4p8nr565l_2zYoJ0NC5WciuBqzNYGcyrV2T5hZmo X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kara Robert Me ankorfoye kordialege dankas. Icafoye pro iste ecelanta lexiko Ido-Franca. Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Robert wrote: > Nova provizora lexiko Ido-Franca (11,595 vorti) havas la adreso: > > idolinguo.org.uk/idfr.htm > > Alternative, uzez la adreso > http://idolinguo.org.uk > e sequez la voyo Franca. > > Voluntez raportar irga problemi od erori. > Danko. > > Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1917 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69926 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2005 11:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2005 11:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2005 11:54:12 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.193.125]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 47072732 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:59:26 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:53:58 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <2005918225936.415532@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <2005918225936.415532@SonyFX805> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509191353.58617.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=DXzbr1XAiiAKz2oPcnjYwXXaMjOPSKznukoIeFqaUb8KWQxN9vP0 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Robert skribis: > La Angla vorto 'significative', kun qua me ne esas familiara (ol esas > supozeble sat rara), havas segun dicionario du senci: 'indicative; > significant'. Do me tradukus ol aden Ido per 'indikanta' (rare forsan > 'indikiva') o 'signifikanta'. Ka vu do tradukus EN: significant per IO: signifikanta? Por me IO: signifikanta = qua signifikas, ma EN: significant = qua es tante importanta ke ol es "ne-neglijebla" (o ke ol vere facas difero). Quon me volas expresar per *signifikativa es ulo "ne-neglijebla". Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1918 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12845 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2005 19:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2005 19:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2005 19:54:17 -0000 Received: from gr.189.172.222.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.172.222] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EHoAm-00071o-B1 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:53:00 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:56:47 +0100 Message-ID: <2005920205647.569266@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <200509191353.58617.SPW@vo.lu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: signifikativa? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=m3x0Vkx4-1UdhuW9wj6HRUvNNV0oxRqjbmXhBppdq6gs5d8 Kara Steve, Vu esas justa, o parte justa. Segun Angla dicionario la vorto = "significant" signifikas: 1. having a meaning - posedanta signifiko, signif= ikanta; 2. full of meaning - plena ye signifiko, signifikoza; 3. important,= worthy of consideration - importanta, konsiderinda; 4. indicative - indika= nta. Forsan "konsiderinda" esas proxima al senco quan vu volas havar. Tame= n ol ne esas exakte sama kam "ne-neglijebla" (qua ne esas tote sama kam "ne= -neglijinda"). Kordiale, Robert. ________ Steve Walesch skribis: Rober= t skribis: >=A0La Angla vorto 'significative', kun qua me ne esas familiara= (ol esas >=A0supozeble sat rara), havas segun dicionario du senci: 'indica= tive; >=A0significant'. Do me tradukus ol aden Ido per 'indikanta' (rare fo= rsan >=A0'indikiva') o 'signifikanta'. Ka vu do tradukus EN: significant p= er IO: signifikanta? Por me IO: signifikanta =3D qua signifikas, ma EN: sig= nificant =3D qua es tante importanta ke ol es "ne-neglijebla" (o ke ol vere= facas difero). Quon me volas expresar per *signifikativa es ulo "ne-negli= jebla". Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1919 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65863 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2005 21:33:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2005 21:33:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp4.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.92) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2005 21:33:49 -0000 Received: from gr.189.171.190.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.171.190] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EHpkJ-00002q-GC; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:33:48 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:37:52 +0100 Message-ID: <2005920223752.460752@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Germana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=8vz25X_-WsrnUoTXrBybq6xW9roHy3vpZHwK9pZSl2Q5few Nova, provizora lexiko Ido-Germana (12.185 vorti) nun esas ye: http://idol= inguo.org.uk/idger.htm Voluntez raportar irga problemi od erori. Robert. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1920 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2163 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2005 19:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2005 19:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2005 19:37:11 -0000 Received: from gr.189.170.117.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.170.117] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EIWsY-000LlK-FH; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:37:11 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto , IdoCatalaOccitan X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:41:06 +0100 Message-ID: <200592220416.362291@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Hispana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=wWKSiM3j7otiYBbOxSFc3GJhpxY0ahnkcEzvK7ig6XlEWQU Nova , provizora lexiko Ido-Hispana (10.477 vorti) esas nun videbla kun la = adreso http://idolinguo.org.uk/idhisp.htm Kelka vorti esas omisita pro ke= me ne savas korekta tradukuri. Voluntez raportar erori ed irga problemi. = Restas facenda la lasta (quaresma) parto di la lexiko Ido-Angla. Robert. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1921 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47546 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2005 18:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2005 18:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.53) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2005 18:10:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 1737 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Sep 2005 18:10:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20050926181043.1735.qmail@web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.59.55.96] by web26603.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:10:42 CEST Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:10:42 +0200 (CEST) To: IdoCatalaOccitan@yahoogroups.com, linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Partaka Subject: Ido-lexiki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=gRF7khQ5WHgRmYLqrywfmHRyoFPczE09xRVxqtOx7ZQQDEaDlXhCYII X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Robert! Dum kelke voyajir tra l' maxim recenta Ido-lexiki enretigita, me duras konstatar ke, segun semblo, ni ne ja havas ofical Ido-vorto quala "aeroportuo". Tamen, me trovis la formo "aerodromo" ibe. Do, qua vorton ni devas uzar por referar a la loko ad-ube ter-venas e de ube departas avioni? Kad "aerodromo", "aeroportuo", od amba? Danko pro tua Ido-laboro, e predanko por tua respondo! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1922 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30814 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2005 12:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2005 12:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2005 12:28:35 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.147]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 47964832 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:24:56 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:19:11 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050721182102.29667.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509271419.11204.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=3eYilP76itUM910tvTqoxANOGJkFntGuhx_TYOzU4VkWw4osc0xJ X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Me itere skribas pri ca temo (quan ni diskutis du monati ante nun) pro ke m= e trovis du plusa vorti quin me forsan kelkafoye mis-pronuncas. L'unesma = esas "dubito" quan me ofte pronuncas d=FAbito (acento tonika ye la u) e la= duesma esas l'artiklo "le" quan me ofte pronuncas quale la Franca artiklo = "le" vice pronuncar ol quale Franca "les" o "lait" [l=E9]. Amikale, Steve= From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1923 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 13618 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2005 12:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2005 12:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp3alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.143) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2005 12:44:54 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.48.248.27) by vsmtp3alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 4335105B00066E38 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:40:14 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5c361$3e0535a0$1bf83052@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:44:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Statistike signifikiva X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=SDMrOZ8uTo8kyh2Wd6KfLL08CoxKTW_i-uBRkdnCqUL4H_s X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< ... me volas expresar per *signifikativa ulo "ne-neglijebla". <<< ... kad ol es oficala vorto en Ido? [STEVE, che Linguolisto] <<< ... Angla vorto 'significative' esas supozeble sat rara... <<< ... forsan "konsiderinda" esas proxima al senco quan vu volas <<< ... tamen ol ne esas exakte sama kam "ne-neglijebla" <<< [ROBERT, che Linguolisto] Me konjektas ke la questiono da S.W. koncernas ne tante ul ordinara vorto, quante ul vorto specala. Altra-dice me konjektas ke S.W. havas en mento precipue la koncepto "ne-neglijebla" en statistiko. To es koncepto extreme importanta en statistiko, e konseque en la tota cienco (1). Traktesas pri koncepto quaze matematika, maxim bone expresebla segun me per "signifikiva" (2). POKA STATISTIKO Extreme simpligante, maxim freque en statistiko on analizas plu o min granda specimeni di populacioni* (3), e de la dati (4) dil specimeni on inferas, se posibla, evaluadi generala pri la populacioni*. La dati dil specimeni es "statistike signifikiva" se oli povas okurar* desfacile pro nura hazardo. Plu precize, pro generala konvenciono, la dati dil specimeni konsideresas kom "statistike signifikiva" se oli povas okurar* pro nura hazardo admaxime ye 5% dil foyi (1 foyo sur 20). Yen exempli explikiva. a] On efektigez 10 lansi di ul moneto, hipoteze ne-alterita, ed on obtenez 8 aversi e 2 reversi (o permutite). La teoriala kalkulo, same kam la komputorala simulado (5), montras ke la rezulto 8/2 (akumulive kun la rezulti plu extrema, 9/1 e 10/0), okuras* pro nura hazardo (per moneto ne-alterita) ye proxime 11% dil foyi (6). Pro ke 11% es plu granda kam konvencionala 5%, rezulto 8/2 es statistike NE-SIGNIFIKIVA. Ol ne permisas refuzar l'hipotezo ke la moneto es ne-alterita. b] On efektigez 10 lansi di ul moneto, hipoteze ne-alterita, ed on obtenez 9 aversi e 1 reverso (o permutite). La rezulto 9/1 (akumulive kun la rezulto plu extrema, 10/0), okuras* pro nura hazardo (per moneto ne-alterita) ye proxime 2,5% dil foyi (25 foyi sur mil). Pro ke 2,5% es min granda kam konvencionala 5%, rezulto 9/1 es statistike SIGNIFIKIVA. Ol permisas refuzar l'hipotezo ke la moneto es ne-alterita. Plu detaloze, rezulto 9/1 signifikas: - od la moneto es alterita, - od eventis fakto sat rara, t.e. fakto eventanta cirkume 1 foyo sur 40. On povas anke dicar ke on havas nur 2,5% probablesi erorar refuzante l'hipotezo ke la moneto es ne-alterita. c] On efektigez 10 lansi di ul moneto, hipoteze ne-alterita, ed on obtenez 10 aversi e 0 reversi (o permutite). La rezulto 10/0 okuras*pro hazardo ye 0,4% dil foyi. Ol es statistike TRE SIGNIFIKIVA. Esas nur 0,4% probablesi erorar refuzante l'hipotezo ke la moneto es ne-alterita. POKA LINGUISTIKO "Signifik.iva" e hipoteza "signifikat.iva" havas sama origino: certena verbo Latina. En la Latina ul verbo enuncesas per la indikativo prezenta, la indikativo perfekta (pasinta), la supino, la infinitivo prezenta. Do, la Latina verbo, de +quu venas Ida "signifik.ar", enuncesas tale: - significo (indikativo prezenta), - significavi (indikativo perfekta), - significatum (supino), - significare (infinitivo prezenta). Segun Couturat, a la indikativo/infinitivo dil verbi Latina korespondas la chefa radiko VERBALA; a la supino korespondas la tale nomizita radiko SUPINALA. En le AFGHIR freque kun-existas la du radiki Latina, l'una por la formi dil verbo, l'altra por multa derivaji. En Ido, formacante la Idala verbi de la Latina, norme la pioniri selektis, pro facileso e regulozeso, nur un ek la du radiki, od la verbala od la supinala, segun la praktikala oportuneso en singla kazo. De la radiko selektita on obtenas omna necesa derivi. En la kazo diskutata hike, la pioniri selektis radiko verbala "signifik.ar", vice radiko supinala "signifikat.ar", obvie* pezinte le por e le kontre. En altra e plu multa kazi, li selektis radiko supinala, quale exemple "lekt.ar" de la Latina supino "lectum" (Latine: lego, legi, lectum, legere). Se on selektabus "signifikat.ar" on havus "signifikat.iva"; vice, on havas sam-sence "signifik.iva", pro ke on selektis "signifik.ar". En Progreso 1909, Louis Couturat, ample diskutis l'afero, akre kritikante l'adopto di du radiki, verbala e supinala..."on ne povas aplikar generala regulo...sempre la supinal... o sempre la verbal radiko...ni tote evitis la remediacho, qua konsistas en admisar du radiki por un verbo..." KONKLUZO "Signifik.iva" es korekta derivuro de la selektita verbala radiko "signifik.ar". "Signifik.iva" es sat proxima a le AFGHIR, sen bezono di "signifikat.iva", hipoteza derivuro de la supinala radiko "signifikat.ar". "Statistike signifikiva" es preferebla segun me kam "statistike signifikanta", pro sua karaktero permananta (Dyer, Ido-English, pag. XIV, pri sufixo -iva). NOTI (1) Pri importo dil koncepto "statistike signifikiva", on serchez en INTERNET la okuri* di: A statistically significant: 10.700.000 rezulti cirkume ("statistically significative" preske ne-existas: R.C. es justa) F statistiquement significat.if(ive): 110.000 cirkume G statistisch signifikant: 90.000 cirkume H estad�sticamente significativ.o(a): 150.000 cirkume I statisticamente significativ.o(a): 56.000 cirkume [Evidente, en la publikigi ciencala, l'Angla prenas la leonala parto] (2) Signifikiveso / signifikiva (statist.): expliko en la texto. A significance / significant F significativit� / significat.if(ive) G Signifikanz / signifikant H significaci�n / significativ.o(a) I significativit� / significativ.o(a) R znachimost / znachimiy (3) Populacion.o*: vorto teknikala dil statistiko, indikanta grupo de unaji statistikala (personi, animali, kozi), de olqua extraktesas specimeno por mezuradi (populaciono dil elekteri, dil baleni, dil inkandec-lampi... [A population. F population. G Bev�lkerung, Population. H poblaci�n. I popolazione. R nasyelyeniye] (4) Dati (plur.): observi sur qui apogas argumento o infero ( de IDO-SVENSK, da Axel Rylander). (5) En la kalkulo teoriala me enduktis la korektigo da Yates (kaze ke kelku volas rikalkular). Por la simulado, me havas "facez tu ipse" komputorala programo. (6) On efektigez serio de 10 lansi; on notez la rezulto; on repetez 100 foyi. Ek la 100 serii, 11 havos kom rezulto 8/2 (od plu extrema: 9/1 od 10/0). ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1924 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54758 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2005 13:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2005 13:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2005 13:22:50 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.147]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 47971155 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:26:56 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:21:10 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <000501c5c361$3e0535a0$1bf83052@nardinic> In-Reply-To: <000501c5c361$3e0535a0$1bf83052@nardinic> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509271521.11029.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Statistike signifikiva X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=NaE16Q_Fgl728rerSSEufTZIchUdGj8dxlqv5PuJoE7L_OPITDR7 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Carlo skribis: > [...] > "Statistike signifikiva" es preferebla segun me kam "statistike > signifikanta", pro sua karaktero permananta (Dyer, Ido-English, pag. XIV, > pri sufixo -iva). Vu extreme bone lumizis la afero e me povas nur gratular vu pro tam bona expliko. Me tote konkordas kun vu e quik korektigos "signifikativa" per "signifikiva" en la tradukuro di mea diserturo. Admisar du radiki por un verbo efektive esus remediacho. Kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1925 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75371 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2005 19:47:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2005 19:47:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2005 19:47:13 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.195.147]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 48119902 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:52:55 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:47:06 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509282147.07072.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: kam posibl..? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=E3RcrKg3i8SeBrztDrPCP-ByfD-irRgjb9gh0HNZ_kEZLPI8eRQm X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Me kelkafoye dubitas ka me dicez "kam posibla" o " kam posible" (amba formi es ofte uzata). Hike du exempli quin me trovis en interreto: Il kuris tam rapide kam posiblE. Me esas e restas aktiva idisto tam longe kam posiblA. La duesma semblas a me plu justa, nam "kam posibla" es ya fakte nur kurtigo di "kam esas posibla", ma l'unesma es uzata en KGD e pro to forsan plu fidinda? Kad ulu povas explikar? Predanko e saluto, Steve P.S.: Kad ulu ja retrovenis del Ido-renkontro en Toulouse? Esus interesiva lektar mesajo che idolisto pri ol. Ka la vetero esis bela e l'urbo vidinda? Quo decidesis relate nia linguo? From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1926 Return-Path: X-Sender: frank.kasper@ido.li X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43105 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2005 19:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2005 19:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2005 19:48:10 -0000 Received: from DSL01.83.171.166.107.NEFkom.net [83.171.166.107] (helo=privatdesktop) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwh2-1EL4Me2tDd-0002RV; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:46:44 +0200 Message-ID: <002c01c5c52e$82fd1a00$1edffea9@privatdesktop> To: "Ali Komaji" , "Mailingliste ULI-Ido" , "Mailingliste Publikigo" , "Mailingliste Linguolisto" , "Mailingliste Idolisto" , "Mailingliste Ido- Portugues" , "Mailingliste Germanlinguaidist" , "Robert Pontnau" , "Vera Barandovska" Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:46:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:021ccca6f6ab8b1daae296777f168fe4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Kasper" Subject: Internaciona Ido-renkontro dum la tempo inter la 23esma e 27esma di septembro 2005 en Toulouse X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162219222; y=RVzRf_gJAMIBdoPh4GbZ215dhLF-CYVIXbpsMgqMtzjW8dm4PzI X-Yahoo-Profile: fkasper2002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara gesamideani! Inter la 23esma di septembro (arivo) e la 27esma di sep= tembro 2005 eventis internaciona Ido-renkontro en Toulouse (Sud-Francia). L= a kunveneyo esis che l' "Aum=F4nerie du lyc=E9e Pierre de Fermat" en la cen= tro di Toulouse, quan nia samideano Robert Pontnau aranjis por nia renkontr= o. Dum venerdio, la 23.09.2005 pos l'arivo di omna partoprenanti ye 20.00= kloko eventis inaugura vespero en la kunveneyo, ube omni prizentis su. L= a partoprenanti propozis kom temi diskutenda dum la laborkunsidi: - adresar= o di Idisti - nova dicionarii - interreta Ido-forumi - loko e dato dil Ido-= konfero 2006 La maxim granda surprizo esis, ke yuna interesemo lojante en = Toulouse asistis nia inaugura vespero. Dum saturdio, la 24.09.2005, antedi= meze eventis l'unesma laborkunsido. Ni diskutis koncerne duesma edituro d= i Ido-adresaro "Esez bonvenanta". Ca adresaro kontenas nomi ed adresi di Id= isti, qui esas pronta gastigar altra samideani o helpar a li trovar hotelo = e.c. Esis propozata, ke aparesos advoko ad omna Idisti en nia Ido-revui e y= e l'interreto donar lia adresi por nia adresaro. Adjuntesas anunc-formular= o a nia adresaro a la chefa Ido-revuo "PROGRESO". Esis propozita publikiga= r la nomi dil gastiganti sen lia adresi che la ret-situo di ULI. Pos l'u= nesma laborkunsido ni juis saporoza dejuno en Arabiana restorerio. Pose Rob= ert Pontnau promenis kun nia tra la centro di Toulouse ed alonge la rivero = Gasconne. 17.00 - 18.30 kloko -duesma laborkunsido che la kunveneyo (Raport= o da Eberhard Scholz pri l'aktivesi dil Ido-amiki Berlin) Ye 19.00 kloko ni= travivis festala dineo kun tipala saporoza sufranca repasti en la restore= rio 'La Gaskono'. Dum sundio, la 25.09.2005, ni dum nia duesma laborkunsid= o en la kunveneyo audis raporto da Eberhard Scholz pri l'aktivesi dil Ido-a= miki Berlin. Nia samideano anke mencionis, ke nia samideani en Berlin dilig= ente okupesas koncerne la enretigo e rinovigo dil existanta Germana Ido-dic= ionarii. Laudesis anke la diligenta agado di Robert Carnaghan pri interret= a dicionarii en diversa lingui. Pos la laborkunsido ni vizitis la famoza pu= lcmerkato, qua nur funcionas sundie. Pose ni dejunis en la restorerio "Flun= ch", ube on ipsa povas selektar multa modestprecala repasti. Dum la posdime= zo ni partoprenis en guidita veturo kun turistala treneto tra l'urbo. Sequi= s nia finala laborkunsido. Ni diskutis la propozo instalar nova Idala disk= utforumi che "Google", pos ke "Yahoogroups" sen motivo nuligis un Idala for= umo. Pro ke la majoritato dil partoprenanti ne pensas, ke existas urjanta n= eceseso havar plu multa interreta Ido-diskutforumi kam existas ca diskuto r= estis sen rezulto. Samideano Schmidtchen ankore atencigis ni a l'Ido-konku= rso aranjita dil Germana Ido-Societo depos plura yari sen regardebla rezult= o e ke on devez motivizar Ido-interesemi partoprenar ofrante atraktiva prem= ii. Fine Eberhard Scholz propozis aranjar l'internaciona Ido-konfero 2006 = dum la tempo inter la 25esma e 28esma di agosto 2006 en la Germana chefurbo= Berlin. Kun ca propozo finis l'oficala parto dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en To= ulouse. Pos komuna dineo en Turkiana restorerio nia samideano Robert Pontna= u facis interesiva diskurso kun fotografuri pri lua recenta voyajo a Kongo = en Afrika Dum lundio, la 26.09.2005 ni aranjis totjorna komuna exkurso kun= automobili a la mezepokala urbo Carcassonne Pos retroveno ni ankorfoye man= jis en la restorerio "Flunch" e pose adiis kun l'espero rirenkontrar okazio= ne dil Ido-konfero dum 2006 en Berlin. Me devas rezumar, ke me itere povis= travivar agreabla dii komune kun kara Ido-amiki en agreabla rondo. Me dezi= ras kordialege dankar a nia samideano Robert Pontnau proi l'ecelanta aranjo= dil kunveneyo e pro omna lua diligenta penadi ante e dum la konfero. Til= rivido okazione dil Ido-konfero 2006 en Berlin!! Ca raporton e plusa foto= grafurin vi trovas ye l'interreta situo http://www.europa.idolinguo.com/Fra= ncia/Idorenkontro2005 Me adjuntas fotografuro kun la partoprenanti a ca m= esajo. Kordiala saluti Frank Kasper prezidanto dil Germana Ido-Societo kun= aranjero dil Ido-renkontro 2005 en Toulouse (Sud-Francia) [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1927 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79407 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2005 12:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2005 12:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2005 12:26:57 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n10.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2005 12:26:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2005 12:26:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:26:54 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 323 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: posto-karto ? postkarto ? postala karto ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=tpiopSNk7bbupXa-G3BZ7rXn0XKEI45wuDYANfCHpv0JLb6EthQ X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Kar amiki, Me rekontris 'posto-karto', 'postkarto' e 'postala karto'. Qui esas la korekta expresi ? Kordiale, Jacques * > Kar amiki > Me dankas la partopreninti di la Idala renkontro en Toulouse pro la > posto-karto sendita a me. Me esperas plusa forco a mea laborema amiki. > Kordiale > Arto Moisio, Finlando From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1928 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90510 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2005 12:50:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2005 12:50:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2005 12:50:04 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.193.54]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 48450670 for ; Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:55:50 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:49:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510011449.56518.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] posto-karto ? postkarto ? postala karto ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=su8ZUiCKMRli-SnSHf5l8eTgGt2s5k88ltE2Gprrg5ouL8SaNR0_ X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El S=E1bado 01 Octubre 2005 14:26, jacquesdehe escribi=F3: > Kar amiki, > M= e rekontris 'posto-karto', 'postkarto' e 'postala karto'. > Qui esas la kor= ekta expresi ? Segun KGD posto-karto esas "certe plu fluanta, plu dolca kam= : postkarto [...] Cetere on sempre darfas ne uzar la kompozo e dicar [...] = karto postala." (pag. 143). La 3 formi do esas korekta, ma postkarto esas= min eufonioza kam l'altri, do ne vere rekomendinda. Se on ne uzas la ko= mpozo, la formo "karto postala" esas probable plu eufonioza kam "postala k= arto", ma anke ibe amba formi esas korekta. Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1929 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37174 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2005 12:59:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2005 12:59:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2005 12:59:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n4.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2005 12:58:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2005 12:58:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Oct 2005 12:58:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:58:19 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510011449.56518.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 725 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] posto-karto ? postkarto ? postala karto ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=5rCWKs1HI_L11B077aG-RJlgVFIJYLNmj8-EAjMIZBIdLWVcoKw X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Danko Steve, Amikale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Ste= ve Walesch wrote: > El S=E1bado 01 Octubre 2005 14:26, jacquesde= he escribi=F3: > > Kar amiki, > > Me rekontris 'posto-karto', 'postkarto' e= 'postala karto'. > > Qui esas la korekta expresi ? > Segun KGD posto-karto= esas "certe plu fluanta, plu dolca kam: postkarto [...] > Cetere on sempr= e darfas ne uzar la kompozo e dicar [...] karto postala." (pag. > 143). >= > La 3 formi do esas korekta, ma postkarto esas min eufonioza kam l'altr= i, do ne > vere rekomendinda. > > Se on ne uzas la kompozo, la formo "ka= rto postala" esas probable plu eufonioza > kam "postala karto", ma anke i= be amba formi esas korekta. > > Amikale, > Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1930 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80862 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2005 15:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2005 15:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2005 15:49:43 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n5.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2005 15:49:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by mailer1.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2005 15:49:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Oct 2005 15:49:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:49:00 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 5710 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da Eduardo A. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=n2xiNTIMT8IGD6QRWR5YOWenUiOZjY6_lpCcuQ2i2LAA-qc X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Steve, me probez respondizar vua questioni. > 10ma+11ma Ceno: eskali= ero =3D> eskalero Yes, to esas justa. > 12ma Ceno: deskansar =3D> repozar= ? Me trovis amba vorti, e me ne vere savas quo es la difero. > 13ma Ceno:= "Ma segun {to quon} vu ipsa sugestis hiere" [o "Ma segun vu ipsa la kandi= dato..." o "Ma vu ipsa sugestis hiere ke la kandidato ...".] Omna formi s= emblas a me korekta, ka? > 15ma Ceno: Ana! -il kridis =3D> kriis? Yes, to= esas justa. > 17ma Ceno: El kridis sua nomo =3D> itere kridis? ka vu skri= bas ta vorto intence? ka vu vizas altra senco kam "kriar"? (47ma Ceno vu = itere uzas "kridis" dufoye) No, to ne esis intencata. Me simple mislernis = la vorto ed uzas olu eroroze. Nun me koncias ke la formo korekta esas "kri= ar", quale vu indikas. > 23ma Ceno: por pagar por sua chambro po un dio = =3D> ka "po" es justa hike? En la KGD onu lektas: "83. =96 Po preiras la= kozo kambie donata; ol indikas equivalo: me kompris la domo po quaradek m= il franki =3D me pagis quaradek mil franki po la domo" En la naraco, Karl= o pagis pekunio en hotelo e lu recevis kambie hotel-chambro dum un dio. Se= gun me, to esas justa. Ma me audas altra opinioni. > 27ma Ceno: sucezis = =3D> sucesis Yes, to esas justa. > 29ma Ceno: indiferante =3D> indiferent= e Anke to esas justa. > 33ma Ceno: Me imaginis duranta laborar =3D> duran= te To esis mistaipajo. Me devabus skribar "Me imaginis me duranta laborar= ...". Segun la KGD, participo adjektiva modifikas substantivo apuda, e par= ticipo adverba modifikas la subjekto dil frazo. Lore, amba formi esus kore= kta. > 34ma Ceno: tam balde kam posible =3D> o "posibla"? pri ca punto me = ankore dubitas (videz mea recenta mesajo "kam posibl..?" (#1925) che ling= uolisto) Me lektis vua mesajo e me ne respondis pro ke me havas la sama d= ubito. Segun mea rezono (qua povas esar eroroza) onu uzez: "tam (adverbo) = kam posible", "tam (adjektivo) kam posibla". Do: "El esas tam bona kam po= sibla. El venis tam frue kam posible." Ma to esas nur mea opiniono, ne teo= rio. > 35ma e 42ma Ceno: Segun me savas =3D> "Segun mea savi" o "Segun to = quon me savas" Yes, to esas justa. > 35ma Ceno: "... ka li devas lasar l= a chambro klefagita ye desneta?" =3D> ka li devUs lasar la chambro klefagi= ta E desneta/sordida a) "devas" es korekta, pro ke la questiono relatas la= obligo dil netigisti. To ne esas hipotezo, ma to quon li devAs kustumale = agar. b) "ye" ed "e" indikus du idei diferanta. La frazo kun "ye" indikus= : "Ka li [devas lasar desneta/ne bezonas netigar] la chambri qui esas klef= agita/quin li trovas esanta klefagita? La sama frazo, kun "e" esus: "Ka li= devas lasar omna chambri qui esas klefagita e desneta? c) Desneta e sord= ida esas sinonimi, ma a mea kompreno kom Hispane- parolanto, "sordida" memo= rigas altro diferanta. Me ne diskutas la vorto, ma me preferas ne uzar ol.= Pro to me preferas "desneta". > 35ma Ceno: Me savigos da vu la telefon-nu= mero. =3D> Ka ne "a vu"? "da" implikas ya aganto e ne Santanjelo esas la a= ganto hike ma l'inspektero, ka ne? Yes, "da" es l'aganto. Memorez ke "sav= igar" es "igar savata". Do, "Me savigos da vu la telefon-numero" signifika= s "Me igos savata da vu..." o "Me certigos ke vu saveskez..." > 38ma Ceno= : El agis exakte segun el konkordabis antee kun "la porkacho". =3D> Hike l= a sintaxo semblas a me ne-justa. Me ne vere komprenas la senco vizita da v= u, ma forsan ulo simila ad "El agis exakte segun elua antea konkordo kun "= la porkacho""? Yes, to esas exakte to quon me intencis indikar. Ma la form= o korekta esabus: "El agis exakte segun to quon el konkordabis antee kun '= la porkacho'" > 40ma Ceno: ... quale sempre ke me departas =3D> kande me = departas? Preske yes. La signifiko esus: "quale irgekande me departas.", t= o quo esas esence lo sama kam "quale kande me departas", ma ol emfazas la= fakto ke la parolanto agas sempre same, sen ecepto. > 40ma Ceno: Mea auto= mobilo esas avariita nun ... =3D> Se on esas strikta, forsan "avariar" ne = esas tote apta, nam ol signifikas "domajar, ne nur navo, ma anke kozi tran= sportata per navo, fervoyo, veturo." Me ne komprenas quo es vua objeciono= . Kompreneble, kande on uzas "avariar" onu ne necese indikas ke domajesis = la vehilo ED la vari transportata, ma unu, l'altru od amba kozi, ka? > 48= ma Ceno: Segun {to quon} el mencionis Ta eroro esas forsan tre repetata, = pro ke me misuzis la vorto "segun", pro l'exemplo di mea linguo naturala. = Ton me devas rilernar por uzor korekte. > 48ma Ceno: ...ekirar en l'autom= obilo =3D> kad "en" od "ek"? En ica kazo, "en" es korekta, pro ke la ideo = es "ekirar la chambro en l'automobilo", ne "irar ek l'automobilo adsur la = strado, o la chambro". > 49ma Ceno: pozedaji =3D> posedaji Yes, danko. = > 49ma Ceno: segun me memoras =3D> segun mea memoro Yes, danko. > 49ma Ce= no: vu kandidatigos vu =3D> la duesma "vu" es troa No. La vorto "kandidati= gar" signifikas "(diven)igar kandidato", "ofrar kandidateso" o "prizentar = kom kandidato". Mankas (ed esas expresenda) anke indiko di "qua divenos ka= ndidato", "quan on ofras la kandidateso" o "quan on prizentas kom kandidat= o." Se vu donas a VU tala posiblajo, lore vu "kandidatigas vu". > 49ma Ce= no: deletigeso =3D> delegiteso? o quo? Yes, to esis mistaipajo. > > Plu = generale me remarkis ke vu ofte uzas la formi verbala kun -ab- . Ka vere en= > omna kazi vu efektive volas expresar anteeso? Me konfesas ke me prizas= tala formi, inkluzante la formo en -abas qua esis/esabas recente tre disk= utata. Me kredas ke omnakaze ta formi esas justifikata, ma me rilektos li = omna e vidos li unope. Pluse, se vu dubitas pri un od uli de li, voluntez = indikar qua formin partikulara vu konsideras kom eroroza. Amikale, Eduar= do A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1931 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52669 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2005 23:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Oct 2005 23:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Oct 2005 23:11:41 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.193.54]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 48686154 for ; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:17:30 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 01:11:29 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <200510040111.30177.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da Eduardo A. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=on4NZ3QdT7nOaDOXKSJWCHvlmRxmZxyZMHfk80NRccouhO8dX2j3 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El Lunes 03 Octubre 2005 17:49, Eduardo A. Rodi escribi=F3: > Kara Steve, m= e probez respondizar vua questioni. Danko! To extreme helpas me progresar e= n Ido. Nam ca questioni ne esas sempre respondizita en KGD od en irga kurs= i. > > 12ma Ceno: deskansar =3D> repozar? > Me trovis amba vorti, e me ne = vere savas quo es la difero. Ka vere? Ka "deskansar" esas oficala vorto? Me= ne trovas ol en mea dicionarii. Forsan ula Hispano ne atencis ed adjuntis= ol ulaloke? [Me quik komprenis ol pro ke me lernas Hispana.] > > 13ma Ce= no: "Ma segun {to quon} vu ipsa sugestis hiere" [o "Ma > segun vu ipsa la k= andidato..." o "Ma vu ipsa sugestis hiere ke la > kandidato ...".] > > Omna= formi semblas a me korekta, ka? La 3 quin me indikis? Ma ne la formo "Ma s= egun vu ipsa sugestis". Ibe me adjuntis {to quon}. > > 23ma Ceno: por pag= ar por sua chambro po un dio =3D> ka "po" es justa > hike? > En la KGD onu = lektas: 83. Po preiras la kozo kambie donata Exakte. Ma la kozo kambie dona= ta lore esus "un dio", nam "po" preiras ol en vua exemplo. Ka ne? Karlo ta= men pagas per pekunio e ne per "un dio". En KGD en l'exemplo on lektas "me = kompris la domo po quaradek mil franki". Ibe to quo sequas "po" esas pekun= iala sumo. > > 35ma Ceno: "... ka li devas lasar la chambro klefagita ye = > desneta?" =3D> ka li devUs lasar la chambro klefagita E desneta/sordida >= a) "devas" es korekta, pro ke la questiono relatas la obligo dil > netigis= ti. To ne esas hipotezo, ma to quon li devAs kustumale agar. Efektive, vu e= sas tote justa. > b) "ye" ed "e" indikus du idei diferanta. La frazo kun "= ye" > indikus: "Ka li [devas lasar desneta/ne bezonas netigar] la chambri >= qui esas klefagita/quin li trovas esanta klefagita? La prepoziciono "ye" h= avas ya ne-definita senco. Ka vu pensas ke la maxim multa personi kompreno= s la senco vizata da vu? Me poke dubitas pri to. > c) Desneta e sordida es= as sinonimi ... Yes, me ya skribis "desneta/sordida" por lasar a vu la sele= kto. Certe vu darfas uzar ta vorto qua maxim bone konvenas vu. > > 35ma C= eno: Me savigos da vu la telefon-numero. =3D> Ka ne "a > vu"? "da" implikas= ya aganto e ne Santanjelo esas la aganto hike ma > l'inspektero, ka ne? > = > Yes, "da" es l'aganto. Memorez ke "savigar" es "igar savata". > Do, "Me s= avigos da vu la telefon-numero" signifikas "Me igos savata > da vu..." o "M= e certigos ke vu saveskez..." Ka la lasta frazo ne signifikas altra kozo? E= n l'unesma exempli "me savas", ma en la lasta "vu savas", ka ne? Ma omnaka= ze me havis l'impreso ke forsan la falsa persono savas la telefon-numero. = > > 40ma Ceno: Mea automobilo esas avariita nun ... =3D> Se on esas > stri= kta, forsan "avariar" ne esas tote apta, nam ol > signifikas "domajar, ne n= ur navo, ma anke kozi transportata per > navo, fervoyo, veturo." > > Me ne = komprenas quo es vua objeciono. Kompreneble, kande on > uzas "avariar" onu = ne necese indikas ke domajesis la vehilo ED la > vari transportata, ma unu,= l'altru od amba kozi, ka? Me havas l'impreso ke "avariar" ne esas generale= uzebla ma aplikesas nur al maro-navigado. Forsan me esas trompita. > > = 49ma Ceno: vu kandidatigos vu =3D> la duesma "vu" es troa > No. La vorto "k= andidatigar" signifikas "(diven)igar > kandidato", "ofrar kandidateso" o "p= rizentar kom kandidato". Mankas > (ed esas expresenda) anke indiko di "qua = divenos kandidato", "quan > on ofras la kandidateso" o "quan on prizentas k= om kandidato." Se vu > donas a VU tala posiblajo, lore vu "kandidatigas vu"= . Mea kulpo. Vu esas tote justa e docis a me ulo utila. Me ne volas disipa= r vua precoza tempo, ma semblas a me ke ca formo di diskuto helpas progres= ar. Adminime to esas tale por me. Pluse me esperas ke esos kelke utila a v= u se me trovas kelka erori. Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1932 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67552 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2005 22:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Oct 2005 22:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly05.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.215) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Oct 2005 22:59:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 30424 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2005 22:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.195]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly05.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 4 Oct 2005 22:59:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 16945 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2005 22:59:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.180.126]) ([195.23.180.126]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt03.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 4 Oct 2005 22:59:21 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.5]); Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:59:22 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c5c937$42b5eb90$7eb417c3@VITERBO> To: "Linguolisto" References: Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:06:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=VdLS8L6uvuLDP5zksYb1bXFmdzPONqCelgmkCXlMNAJE3Gh5W2Xe2w X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Steve ed Eduardo, Jen mea komenti pri kelka punti traktita en la last= a mesajo da Steve: 1) S: 12ma Ceno: deskansar =3D> repozar? E: Me trovi= s amba vorti, e me ne vere savas quo es la difero. G: La difero es: 'deska= nsar' ne es Ido-vorto, kontre ke 'repozar' ja longe apartenas al Ido-vortar= o. 2) S: 13ma Ceno: "Ma segun {to quon} vu ipsa sugestis hiere" [o "Ma = segun vu ipsa la kandidato..." o "Ma vu ipsa sugestis hiere ke la kandidat= o ...".] E: Omna formi semblas a me korekta, ka? G: "Quale vu ipsa sugest= is hiere" o "Segun vua propra sugesto hiera" 3) S: 23ma Ceno: por pagar = por sua chambro po un dio =3D> ka "po" es justa hike? E: En la naraco, Ka= rlo pagis pekunio en hotelo e lu recevis kambie hotel-chambro dum un dio. = Segun me, to esas justa. Ma me audas altra opinioni. G: Karlo ne kambiis = pekunio po un dio, il kambiis pekunio po chambro por un dio (on ya donis ad= il ne dio ma chambro...). Do: "por pagar por sua chambro por un dio" 4) = E: "El esas tam bona kam posibla. El venis tam frue kam posible." G: La un= esma frazo es ambigua. On ya ne volas indikar ke el es posibla, od altravor= te, la adjektivo 'posibla' tote ne koncernas la subjekto 'el'. Pro to en ta= la frazi me sempre uzas - e rekomendas - la adverbo 'posible', mem konciant= e ke segun strika gramatikeso on devus uzar la adjektivo ("el es tam bona k= am posibla" =3D "el es tam bona kam es posibla imaginar" =3D "el es bona en= la maxim granda grado posibla"). Inter strikta gramatikeso ed evito di amb= igueso me sempre preferas la duesma. 5) S: 35ma e 42ma Ceno: Segun me sav= as =3D> "Segun mea savi" o "Segun to quon me savas" G: "Segun quante me s= avas" 6) S: 35ma Ceno: "... ka li devas lasar la chambro klefagita ye de= sneta?" =3D> ka li devUs lasar la chambro klefagita E desneta/sordida G: "= ka li devas lasar desneta la klefagita chambro" o "ka li devas lasar la kle= fagita chambro kom desneta" 7) S: 38ma Ceno: El agis exakte segun el konk= ordabis antee kun "la porkacho". =3D> Hike la sintaxo semblas a me ne-just= a. Me ne vere komprenas la senco vizita da vu, ma forsan ulo simila ad "El= agis exakte segun elua antea konkordo kun "la porkacho""? G: "El agis ex= akte quale el konkordabis kun la porkacho" 8) S: 40ma Ceno: ... quale se= mpre ke me departas =3D> kande me departas? E: Preske yes. La signifiko es= us: "quale irgekande me departas.", to quo esas esence lo sama kam "quale = kande me departas", ma ol emfazas la fakto ke la parolanto agas sempre sam= e, sen ecepto. G: Meaopinione Steve es justa: nur 'kande me departas' es a= ceptebla. 9) S: 48ma Ceno: Segun {to quon} el mencionis G: "Quale el m= encionis" 10) S: 49ma Ceno: segun me memoras =3D> segun mea memoro G: "S= egun quante me memoras" Kordiale, Gon=E7alo Neves [Non-text portions o= f this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1933 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65996 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2005 04:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2005 04:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2005 04:54:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2005 04:53:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2005 04:53:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:53:13 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000301c5c937$42b5eb90$7eb417c3@VITERBO> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 4141 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=ThH73dhPt-cTOO0vQqVwqZIbDWtOd0KsJtRqYAO9lro1VAc X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, > 1) > S: 12ma Ceno: deskansar =3D> repozar? > E: Me trov= is amba vorti, e me ne vere savas quo es la difero. > G: La difero es: 'de= skansar' ne es Ido-vorto, kontre ke 'repozar' ja longe apartenas al Ido-vo= rtaro. E: Nu, to semblas esar maxim konvinkiva argumento favore di 'repo= zar', ka? :-) > > 2) > > S: 13ma Ceno: "Ma segun {to quon} vu ipsa suges= tis hiere" [o "Ma > segun vu ipsa la kandidato..." o "Ma vu ipsa sugestis = hiere ke la > kandidato ...".] > > E: Omna formi semblas a me korekta, ka= ? > > G: "Quale vu ipsa sugestis hiere" o "Segun vua propra sugesto hiera= " E: Semblas a me ke omna formi propozata esas bon alternativi a mea nek= orekta "Ma segun vu ipsa sugestis hiere". > 3) > S: 23ma Ceno: por pagar p= or sua chambro po un dio =3D> ka "po" es justa hike? > > E: En la naraco,= Karlo pagis pekunio en hotelo e lu recevis kambie > hotel-chambro dum un = dio. Segun me, to esas justa. Ma me audas altra opinioni. > > G: Karlo ne= kambiis pekunio po un dio, il kambiis pekunio po chambro por un dio (on y= a donis ad il ne dio ma chambro...). Do: "por pagar por sua chambro por un= dio" E: Kontree me pensas ke il ya kambiis pekunio, ne nur po un dio, ma = ya po un dio en la hotelo. Me anke kredas ke esus aceptebla "pagar po cha= mbro 'dum' un dio". Ma ne "...por un dio" qua semblas Anglajo nekorekta. "= Por" sugestas skopo, ne tempo. > > 4) > > E: "El esas tam bona kam posib= la. El venis tam frue kam posible." > > G: La unesma frazo es ambigua. On = ya ne volas indikar ke el es posibla, od altravorte, la adjektivo 'posibla= ' tote ne koncernas la subjekto 'el'. Pro to en tala frazi me sempre uzas = - e rekomendas - la adverbo 'posible', mem konciante ke segun strika grama= tikeso on devus uzar la adjektivo ("el es tam bona kam posibla" =3D "el es= tam bona kam es posibla imaginar" =3D "el es bona en la maxim granda grad= o posibla"). Inter strikta gramatikeso ed evito di ambigueso me sempre pr= eferas la duesma. E: Danko. Me prenos vua rekomendo. > > 5) > > S: 35ma= e 42ma Ceno: Segun me savas =3D> "Segun mea savi" o "Segun to quon me sav= as" > > G: "Segun quante me savas" E: Gon=E7alo, ka vu eskartas la propoz= aji di Steve, o vu propozas altra alternativi kom same valida? > > 6) > = > S: 35ma Ceno: "... ka li devas lasar la chambro klefagita ye > desneta?= " =3D> ka li devUs lasar la chambro klefagita E desneta/sordida > > G: "k= a li devas lasar desneta la klefagita chambro" o "ka li devas lasar la kle= fagita chambro kom desneta" E: Anke "kom" semblas bona. Or, ka "ye" ya pov= us esar misinterpretata ibe? Qua altra signifikon olu povus havar? > > 7= ) > > S: 38ma Ceno: El agis exakte segun el konkordabis antee kun "la > p= orkacho". =3D> Hike la sintaxo semblas a me ne-justa. Me ne vere > kompren= as la senco vizita da vu, ma forsan ulo simila ad "El agis > exakte segun = elua antea konkordo kun "la porkacho""? > > G: "El agis exakte quale el ko= nkordabis kun la porkacho" E: Yes! "Quale" es la vorto por evitar la leda= jo "segun to quon"... Danko. > 8) > > S: 40ma Ceno: ... quale sempre ke = me departas =3D> kande me departas? > > E: Preske yes. La signifiko esus: = "quale irgekande me departas.", to quo esas esence lo sama kam "quale kand= e me departas", ma ol emfazas la fakto ke la parolanto agas sempre same, s= en ecepto. > > G: Meaopinione Steve es justa: nur 'kande me departas' es = aceptebla. E: Ma olu esas nuance diferanta. La vorto "sempre" es necesa po= r adjuntar l'ideo di ke la ago eventis sen ecepto omnafoye. Konsiderez la= frazi: Me intencis: "as every time I leave" / "como cada vez que me voy"= / "como cada vez que eu vou embora." E vi propozas: "as when I leave" / "= como cuando me voy" / "como quando vou embora." Altra alternativo povus e= sar: "quale irgekande me departas". Ma pro quo "quale sempre ke me departa= s" esas nekorekta? > 9) > > S: 48ma Ceno: Segun {to quon} el mencionis = > > G: "Quale el mencionis" > 10) > > S: 49ma Ceno: segun me memoras =3D>= segun mea memoro > > G: "Segun quante me memoras" E: Itere, danko. Ta st= rukturi ne venis a mea kapo kande me bezonis li. Vi omna standez bone. E= duardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1934 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62864 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2005 09:53:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2005 09:53:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2005 09:52:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.94.237.58] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2005 09:41:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by s2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2005 09:41:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by s2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2005 04:36:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Oct 2005 04:36:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 04:36:23 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510040111.30177.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2052 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da Eduardo A. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=MxLiMa6axl-ho4bxIWTl_N0y1DBCalSwkNZ8i_XR_KOUhk0 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Steve, Pri "savigar". La problemo esas la strukturo di "igar" sive kom vorto aparta o kom sufixo. Kande olu adjuntesas a verbo transitiva (t.e.: aceptanta objekto direta) quale exemple "savar", "-igar" signifikas "agar tale ke konseque di onua ago ulu od ulo (ma ne onu) divenas '-ata'". En l'exemplo, Quesada intencas "savigar telefon-numero" da Santanjelo. To signifikas ke Quesada agos tale ke ta telefon-numero divenos savata da Santanjelo. Forsan, Quesada diktos la telefon- numero, o sendos karto en qua ta numero skribesis, edc. Ma la fakto es ke esas du aganti hike. Quesada es aganto koncerne la verbo "igar", pro ke il agos tale ke Santanjelo saveskos la numero. E Santanjelo esas l'aganto koncerne la verbo "savar", pro ke ilu saveskos (pro l'ago di Quesada) la telefon-numero. Or, se savigar signifika "agar tale ke ulo esez savata" la savanto devas esar introduktata per la prepoziciono "da", nam "savigar telefon-numero da ulu" esus "agar tale ke telefon-numero esez savata DA ulu". Komparez to al strukturo Angla: "get/have sthg. done". Exemple, "I had a tooth removed" ("Me ekprenigis dento") indikas ke me agis tale ke onu ekprenis un de mea denti. Me iris che la dentisto, me dicis a lu ke mea dento doloras, edc. Me esas ulamaniere aganto. Ma ne me, ma la dentisto fakte ekprenis la dento. Anke lu esas aganto. E se me volus inkluzar la dentisto en la frazo, me devus inkluzar lu kom l'aganto: "I had a tooth removed by the dentist" ("Me ekprenigis dento dal dentisto"). Pri "avariar" me ne povas agar plu multo. Me nur havas la traduki aden lingui naturala en vortari. Ma me ne savas quale exakte olu esas uzata. Kad ulu povus helpar ni hike? > Me ne volas disipar vua precoza tempo, ma semblas a me ke ca formo di diskuto helpas progresar. Adminime to esas tale por me. Pluse me esperas ke esos kelke utila a vu se me trovas kelka erori. Me tote konkordas ke diskuto linguala helpas progresar, e me nule konsideras olu kom disipo di mea tempo. Voluntez durigar tala debati. Amikale, Eduardo. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1935 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36889 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2005 10:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2005 10:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2005 10:07:22 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.85]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 48865241 for ; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:08:34 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:02:31 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510051202.31977.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=yw6l9CRsj4sH8YO7LRxBcMPACiApH7-tU9WPISbE_QQXnyb7Oo8M X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara Eduardo e Goncalo, kar amiki, > G: Do: "por pagar por sua chambro por un dio" > E: Kontree me pensas ke il ya kambiis pekunio, ne nur po un dio, ma > ya po un dio en la hotelo. Me anke kredas ke esus aceptebla "pagar > po chambro 'dum' un dio". Ma ne "...por un dio" qua semblas Anglajo > nekorekta. "Por" sugestas skopo, ne tempo. "On abonas ta revuo po dek e du franki por yaro." To esas exemplo ek KGD ube por "sugestas tempo". Se on esas strikta on devus dicar: "por la darfo lojar ibe dum un dio", ma pro komodeso on darfas abreviar to per "por un dio", nam omnu komprenas, ka ne? > > E: "El esas tam bona kam posibla. El venis tam frue kam posible." > > G: La unesma frazo es ambigua. [...] > E: Danko. Me prenos vua rekomendo. Me anke dankas Goncalo pro ta expliko. Forsan me preferas "El esas tam bona kam esas posibla." Ta frazo ne plus esas ambigua, ma ol esas gramatikale korekta, ka ne? O kad "esas posibla" povas esar miskomprenata "kam (el) esas posibla"? Ma "el esas posibla" semblas sen-sencoza? Lore on povus anke argumentar ke "El kantis tam bele kam posible" signifikus "El kantis tam bele kam {el kantis} posible"? Lore la ambigueso anke existas se on uzas l'adverbo... > ka li devas lasar la chambro klefagita ye desneta?" > E: Anke "kom" semblas bona. Or, ka "ye" ya povus esar > misinterpretata ibe? Qua altra signifikon olu povus havar? Nur nun me tote komprenas quon vu intencis dicar per ta frazo. On povus mem tote ne uzar prepoziciono, ma lore existas posiblajo di miskompreno. "ka li devas lasar la chambroN klefagitaN desneta". Ibe la uzo Esperantala dil akuzativo (mem se me tote ne volas introduktar ol en Ido) povus evitar miskompreno. En Ido me preferas la vort-ordino propozita da Goncalo "ka li devas lasar desneta la klefagita chambro". "Ye" kom nedefinita prepoziciono povus havar plura signifiki. Ol povas esar simila a "che, en, sur, por, ..." e per la kontexto on devas savar quo esas apta. La lektero do devos probar plura signifiki, til ke lu trovos la justa. Pro to me ne prizas tro ofte uzar "ye"; nur en kazi ube on certe bone komprenesos (exemple: ye 12 kloki). > > S: 40ma Ceno: ... quale sempre ke me departas => kande me departas? > > > > E: Preske yes. La signifiko esus: "quale irgekande me departas.", > to quo esas esence lo sama kam "quale kande me departas", ma ol > emfazas la fakto ke la parolanto agas sempre same, sen ecepto. > > > G: Meaopinione Steve es justa: nur 'kande me departas' es aceptebla. > E: Ma olu esas nuance diferanta. La vorto "sempre" es necesa por > adjuntar l'ideo di ke la ago eventis sen ecepto omnafoye. [...] Lore vu povas ya skribar "quale sempre kande me departas". On uzas "kande" vice "ke" pro la signifiko tempala. Ol ya signifikas ulo simila a "quale sempre dum la tempo di mea departo". Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1936 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97573 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2005 17:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Oct 2005 17:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60825.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.233) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Oct 2005 17:50:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 37758 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Oct 2005 17:50:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20051005175002.37756.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.80.138.74] by web60825.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:50:02 PDT Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000301c5c937$42b5eb90$7eb417c3@VITERBO> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308; y=kvQU-fq3y8NJazFv-aORsul-dpT8DfmCrrazC4hpUfpHlOXqCQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Segun vua propra sugesto hierala" (o "segun vua propra sugesto hiere") Goncalo Neves skribis: G: "Quale vu ipsa sugestis hiere" o "Segun vua propra sugesto hiera" --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1937 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 21662 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 15:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2005 15:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 15:14:36 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.52.189.91) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 43418E3A00075034 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 15:55:19 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5ca7e$429b6f20$5bbd3452@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:00:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: "La Sucedanto" sucesanta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=JTcWpcxKdl9XjWttqgn3OIg9aoX634GCN0ggY2VJQ6qeAZg X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< ... "La Sucedanto"...me invitas omna samideani indikar a me...irga <<< eroro linguala quan vi povus trovar en la texto. E me esperas omna <<< komenti e kritiki pri la kontenajo. [E.A. Rodi] Me lektis sen halto la "thriller" da E.A. Rodi "La Sucedanto". Me trovis l'intrigo kaptiva ed ecitanta, same kam bone brasita. Segun me, la linguo di E.A.R. es proximeskanta a ecelanteso. Nur poka remarki. ��� PRI L'INTRIGO Mea-judike es kelke tro febla l'ocido-motivi, sive dil reala ocidinto, sive dil personi suspektebla. ��� PRI LA LINGUO. A) Me trovas stranja l'uzo di NEK en frazi quala: "ne cesar vidar la okuli dil detektivo, NEK MEM dum un instanto" "il ne esis pronta diskutar..., NEK MEM kun elu" "delegito nigra esas NEK MEM mokinda" "me audis NEK un vorto de il". Pro quo ne: "ne cesar vidar la okuli dil detektivo, NE MEM dum un instanto" "il ne esis pronta diskutar..., NE MEM kun elu" "delegito nigra esas NE MEM mokinda" "me audis NE MEM un vorto de il"? Segun-quante me savas, "nek" uzesas en simetra konstrukto: ne/nek...nek: "nek ni nek mem la dicita profesoro" [L. Couturat] "respondo quan il nek egardis nek mem vartis" [L. Couturat]. Me konjektas ke E.A.R. pensas (quale altri, qui alegas KGD-67) ke "ne mem" es ne korekta (o mal-sona). Lu anke skribas en "La Sucedanto" (gramatike ne erorante): "el mem ne regardis la stulo" "me mem ne eniris hike". Segun me, esas semantikala nuanco inter "ne mem" e "mem ne". Pri la korekteso di "ne mem" on diskutis che Idolisto e Linguolisto, en Januaro 2001 (1). B) Mea-sente E.A.R. tro-uzas YE (to ne es eroro, ma enoyigo). Vice "lasar la chambro klefagita YE desneta", me preferus "lasar desneta la chambro klefagita". Vice "regardar...YE la okuli", me dicus sen-chagrene "regardar...en la okuli". Vice "il trovis Jakobino YE mortinta", me skribus tranquile "il trovis Jakobino mortinta" (e del kuntexto nulu pensus ke il esis serchanta la kadavro di Jakobino) (2). C) En "ni amba alibiizis l'unu l'altra" la desinenci devus esar sama, segun me: "l'unu l'altru" od "l'una l'altra" od "l'un l'altra". D) "Se vu ne opozas vu" es plu korekta, segun me, kam "se vu ne opozesas" (Fran�ais-Ido... Deutsch-Ido...). ---------- (1) Kom defensanto di "ne mem", me citis/as (mesaji 508, 520 a Linguolisto): "fakte on ne mem pensas ad altra senco", [L. Beaufront, KGD] "ne mem un membro" [O. Jespersen] "el ne mem havis la helpo" [L. Couturat] "ne devas e ne mem povas indikar l'emfazo" [P. Janko] "ed nulu savas ulo pri to? ne mem nur un vorto?" [M. Pesch] "ne mem la lingui artifical eskapas ta pelmeli" [G. Neves] "nicht einmal: ne mem" [Deutsch-Ido, da K. Feder, 1920] "inte ens: ne mem" [Ido-Swensk, da A. Rylander, 1985] Se per "ne mem" on eroras/malsonas, fortunoze on eroras/malsonas kun la maxim granda Idisti. (2) "Lasar la chambro desneta", "trovar Jakobino mortinta" esas exempli di konstrukto di certena verbi (elektar, igar, judikar, konsiderar, lasar, nomar, nomizar, sentar su, trovar...) per duopla predikato (quale me nomas ta konstrukto; altri nomas ol altra-maniere): "lu igis sua flechi venenoza" [Dyer] "me igas la vitro neruptebla" [KGD] "me lasis il tranquila" [Dyer] "sentar su varma" [Dyer] "lua gepatri nomizis il Jean" [Dyer] "me nomizis ol 'tukucho' " [G. Neves] "me judikis bona la vino" [KGD] ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1938 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57121 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly08.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.218) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 27221 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly08.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28722 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.253]) ([195.23.194.253]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:23 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.5]); Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:14:22 +0100 Message-ID: <007c01c5cac3$4e0ff7f0$fdc217c3@VITERBO> To: "Linguolisto" References: Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:05:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=lMCvJ0-aEztgrUurpwqdZVgxLYwgMg6QXe1fI-h3KSZKlrozsSpSww X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves > En l'exemplo, Quesada intencas "savigar telefon-numero" da > Santanjelo. Multe plu simpla: Quesada intencas komunikar/dicar/donar telefon-numero a Santanjelo. o: Quesada intencas informar Santanjelo pri telefon-numero Pro quo sempre serchar komplikita expresuri? Kordiale, Gon�alo From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1939 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58620 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly06.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.216) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 3040 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.196]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly06.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24419 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO VITERBO) ([195.23.194.253]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:46 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.5]); Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:14:24 +0100 Message-ID: <007e01c5cac3$4f51c6c0$fdc217c3@VITERBO> To: References: <200510051202.31977.SPW@vo.lu> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:22:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, daEduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=pSe_y11mrURjddJvZ8SLhg4h-V-j4fbszfXTZ_x5id2hXsxPB2KHbw X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves S: > Lore on povus anke argumentar ke "El kantis tam bele kam posible" > signifikus > "El kantis tam bele kam {el kantis} posible"? Lore la ambigueso anke > existas > se on uzas l'adverbo... Yes. Ne sempre es posibla evitar ambiguaji. O forsan: "el kantis maxim bele posible" Me prizas vidar en 'posible' ulasorta idiotismo signifikanta 'segun posibleso'. Ne sempre ni bezonas dissekar la linguo quale autopsiata kadavro. Ni ne esez tro pedanta. Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1940 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70343 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly02.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.212) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24587 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.228]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly02.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 28973 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2005 22:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.253]) ([195.23.194.253]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt12.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 6 Oct 2005 22:14:44 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.5]); Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:14:23 +0100 Message-ID: <007d01c5cac3$4eb47550$fdc217c3@VITERBO> To: References: Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:15:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:12:4:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA.RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=pSe_y11mrURjddJvZ8SLhg4h-V-j4fbszfXTZ_x5id2hXsxPB2KHbw X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves E: Kontree me pensas ke il ya kambiis pekunio, ne nur po un dio, ma ya po un dio en la hotelo. Me anke kredas ke esus aceptebla "pagar po chambro 'dum' un dio". Ma ne "...por un dio" qua semblas Anglajo nekorekta. "Por" sugestas skopo, ne tempo. G: On pagas chambro por un dio On pagas pekunio po un chambro On pagas chambro per pekunio On pagas pekunio po un chambro por un dio On pagas chambro por un dio per pekunio edc > S: 35ma e 42ma Ceno: Segun me savas => "Segun mea savi" o "Segun to quon me savas" > > G: "Segun quante me savas" > E: Gon�alo, ka vu eskartas la propozaji di Steve, o vu propozas altra alternativi kom same valida? G: 'Segun mea savo' (ne 'savi') es korekta e bela; 'segun to quon me savas' es korekta ma tre leda... > E: Me intencis: "as every time I leave" / "como cada vez que me voy" / "como cada vez que eu vou embora." "quale eventas sempre kande me departas" o: "quale eventas omnafoye kande me departas" Kordiale, Gon�alo Neves From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1941 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79293 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 06:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2005 06:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 06:21:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 06:19:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 06:19:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:11:43 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c5ca7e$429b6f20$5bbd3452@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: "La Sucedanto" sucesanta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=vMvw1Qk9OzaY2PchRXLfdFpFVUTwdIi2h167uTEbhTapzac X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Carlo Nardini, Multa danko pro vua letro. Danko pro inkluzar anke opi= niono pri la kontenajo dil naraco. Yen mea komenti a vua komenti. > Me le= ktis sen halto la "thriller" da E.A. Rodi "La Sucedanto". > Me trovis l'int= rigo kaptiva ed ecitanta, same kam bone brasita. Danko. Or me ne komprenas= la vorto "brasita" hike. > Segun me, la linguo di E.A.R. es proximeskanta= a ecelanteso. Ho, multa danko! Me multe valoras tal komento, precipue pro= ke olu venas de ulu quala vu, quankam me pensas ke vu exajeras. > =A7=A7= =A7 PRI L'INTRIGO > > Mea-judike es kelke tro febla l'ocido-motivi, sive d= il reala ocidinto, sive dil personi suspektebla. Yes. Me intence selektis= febla motivo por la reala ocidinto, por emfazar la stulteso di lua ago. P= ro to, me decidis ne krear plu "konvinkiva" motivo. Irgakaze, onu ya trova= s krimini pro la sama motivo, e mem ocidi pro motivi plu febla, en la vivo= reala, ka ne? > =A7=A7=A7 PRI LA LINGUO. > > A) Me trovas stranja l'uzo = di NEK en frazi quala: > "ne cesar vidar la okuli dil detektivo, NEK MEM du= m un instanto" > "il ne esis pronta diskutar..., NEK MEM kun elu" > "delegi= to nigra esas NEK MEM mokinda" > "me audis NEK un vorto de il". > > Pro qu= o ne: > "ne cesar vidar la okuli dil detektivo, NE MEM dum un instanto" > "= il ne esis pronta diskutar..., NE MEM kun elu" > "delegito nigra esas NE ME= M mokinda" > "me audis NE MEM un vorto de il"? > > Segun-quante me savas, = "nek" uzesas en simetra konstrukto: ne/nek...nek: > "nek ni nek mem la dic= ita profesoro" [L. Couturat] > "respondo quan il nek egardis nek mem vartis= " [L. Couturat]. > > Me konjektas ke E.A.R. pensas (quale altri, qui alega= s KGD-67) ke "ne mem" es ne korekta (o mal-sona). Danko. Me nun pensas ke= "ne" es preferinda. Mea motivo por uzar "nek" ne esis eufoniala o gramati= kala, ma nur la influo dil Hispana "ni siquiera". Me aceptas vua korektigo= . > Lu anke skribas en "La Sucedanto" (gramatike ne erorante): > "el mem n= e regardis la stulo" > "me mem ne eniris hike". > > Segun me, esas semantik= ala nuanco inter "ne mem" e "mem ne". Pri la korekteso di "ne mem" on disk= utis che Idolisto e Linguolisto, en Januaro 2001 (1). Segun mea kompreno,= MEM emfazas la vorto nemediate sequanta. Do: "el mem NE regardis la stulo"= emfazas la ne-regardo apud posibla regardo (ed anke esperebla kande onu e= sas sideskonta). El devabus regardar stulo sur qua el sideskos, ma vicee e= l ne agis tale. "el ne mem REGARDIS la stulo" emfazas regardo (kom ago ne r= ealigita) kontre altra agi. Exemple: El eniris kurante, e pro acidento el = faligis stulo. Tamen el ne haltis. El duris kurar ed el ne levis la stulo= . Fakte, el ne mem REGARDIS la stulo falinta. Pro ta motivo, me pensas nun = ke la altra frazo "me mem ne eniris hike" es eroroza. > B) Mea-sente E.A= .R. tro-uzas YE (to ne es eroro, ma enoyigo). > Vice "lasar la chambro klef= agita YE desneta", me preferus "lasar desneta la chambro klefagita". > Vic= e "regardar...YE la okuli", me dicus sen- chagrene "regardar...en la okuli"= . > Vice "il trovis Jakobino YE mortinta", me skribus tranquile "il trovis= Jakobino mortinta" (e del kuntexto nulu pensus ke il esis serchanta la ka= davro di Jakobino) (2). La uzado di YE ya devesas a teorio quan me sequas,= e quan me expozas hike por olua konfirmo o korektigo. Segun mea kompreno = nur tri strukturi darfas en Ido esar adjektivo o substantivo ne preirata d= a prepoziciono, nome: - la subjekto (nur substantivo) - la objekto direta= (nur substantivo) - la komplemento di ESAR. (substantivo od adjektivo) Ta= la strukturi darfas kontenar artikli, ed anke adjektivi e substantivi, ma = li ne darfas komencar per prepoziciono. Altra komplementi (exemple komplem= enti kun valoro adverbala) devas esar sive adverbo sive substantivo preira= ta da ula prepoziciono. Exemple: - "Ye la matino sequanta, il esis..." od= : - "Sequanta-matine, il esis..." Ma ne nur: "la matino sequanta, il esis" = Pro to, me pensis exemple ke "il trovis Jakobino mortinta" esus eroroza. = Pri "lasar la chambro klefagita YE desneta", me ne pensis pri "lasar desn= eta la chambro klefagita" qua esas tote komprenebla e ne ambigua. Me nur k= onsideris, ed eskartis, "lasar la chambro klefagita desneta", qua ya esus = ambigua, nam olu signifikus anke: "lasar la klefagita e desneta chambro". = Me faliis konsiderar antepozar la vorto "desneta", quo esus ya bona altern= ativo. Danko. > C) En "ni amba alibiizis l'unu l'altra" la desinenci devus= esar sama, segun me: "l'unu l'altru" od "l'una l'altra" od "l'un l'altra"= . Yes, to esis ya eroro. Anke me opinionas ke la dezinenci devas esar sam= a, ma kande me skribis to, me obliviis lo. > D) "Se vu ne opozas vu" es pl= u korekta, segun me, kam "se vu ne opozesas" (Fran=E7ais-Ido... Deutsch-Id= o...). Me transskribas la frazo kompleta ube me uzis ta expresuro: "Ni de= vas inspektar la 4esma etajo, nun, se vu ne opozesas." En ta kazo, "opozas= su" indikus a me diskuto interna che la homo qua "opozas su", quale se lu= havus du idei kontrea, e lu ne savus quan selektar. Lu havas un ideo, ed = anke lu havas altra ideo diferanta (opozanta) sua unesma ideo. Do lu opoza= s su ipsa. Ya "opozesar" ne tro evitas tala sento. Mea intenco esis kompr= eneble, "se vu ne opinionas altre", "se vu ne volas altro". Nun me pensas = ke onu povus skribar: "Ni devas inspektar la 4esma etajo, nun, se vu ne op= ozas lo." Quon vu opinionas pri ta alternativo? Standez bone. Eduardo A.= RODI From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1942 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74662 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 06:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2005 06:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 06:21:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 06:19:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Oct 2005 06:19:59 -0000 Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 06:16:15 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <007c01c5cac3$4e0ff7f0$fdc217c3@VITERBO> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, da EduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=-gEjlzvwco9ZaT5lwR4y4DkQqqgJegNHaFbOYW14TR-IH2Y X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Gon=E7alo, > > En l'exemplo, Quesada intencas "savigar telefon-numero= " da > > Santanjelo. > Multe plu simpla: > Quesada intencas komunikar/dicar= /donar telefon-numero a Santanjelo. > o: > Quesada intencas informar Santan= jelo pri telefon-numero > Pro quo sempre serchar komplikita expresuri? > Ko= rdiale, > Gon=E7alo Vua alternativi es ya plu simpla. Ma me intencis expli= kar en mea mesajo la signifiko di -igar. Irgakaze, me ya koncias ke me kel= kete trouzas la vorto "savigar" kande altra alternativi es posibla. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1943 Return-Path: X-Sender: g-neves@clix.pt X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33847 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 10:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Oct 2005 10:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailrly07.isp.novis.pt) (195.23.133.217) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 10:01:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 19945 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 10:01:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt) ([195.23.133.196]) (envelope-sender ) by mailrly07.isp.novis.pt with compressed SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 10:01:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 2787 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2005 10:01:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [195.23.194.147]) ([195.23.194.147]) (envelope-sender ) by mailfrt04.isp.novis.pt with SMTP; 7 Oct 2005 10:01:27 -0000 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.13]); Fri, 07 Oct 2005 11:01:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c5cb26$164abe00$93c217c3@VITERBO> To: References: <20051005175002.37756.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 23:27:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "Goncalo Neves" Subject: Re: [linguo] Fwd: [ido] Re: Nova pdf-libro: La sucedanto, daEduardoA. RODI. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=188762998; y=MlNAr5licZoc8rME2emC20L4MIWZJDKue_3ungv44lKFrcSaar-Xog X-Yahoo-Profile: goncalo_neves > "Segun vua propra sugesto hierala" (o "segun vua propra sugesto hiere") Me preferas dicar (quale Dyer e la klasiki): hiera. Quante plu simpla e kurta, tante plu bona. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1944 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28663 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2005 17:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2005 17:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2005 17:00:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 27512 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Oct 2005 17:00:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20051009170036.27510.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.49.1.208] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:00:36 CEST Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:00:36 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200509271419.11204.SPW@vo.lu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 4:13:32:0 From: Partaka Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=LFx6IQgEguEo1lOCNevPqhYyvdjDwT6lbqaiICGrNhmeJ4Os80XYWIc X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas --- Steve Walesch skribis: --------------------------------- Me itere skribas pri ca temo (quan ni diskutis du monati ante nun) pro ke me trovis du plusa vorti quin me forsan kelkafoye mis-pronuncas. L'unesma esas "dubito" quan me ofte pronuncas d�bito (acento tonika ye la u) e la duesma esas l'artiklo "le" quan me ofte pronuncas quale la Franca artiklo "le" vice pronuncar ol quale Franca "les" o "lait" [l�]. Amikale, Steve -- Saluto, Steve! Tamen, tu devas agnoskar, ke to es ya partikularajo tua, nam tu ipsa koncias pri la justa pronunco: la vorto tri-silaba "dubito", nur darfas pronuncesar "du-BI-to". Pri l'artiklo "le", tu anke savas quale on devas, en Ido, pronuncar la vokali. Me vidas nula problemo ta-relate. Yen kelk altra vorti, *kuya pronunco es ya ne tante klara ad omnu. Quale ni pronuncas oli? - hodie: HO-die, HO-DI-e, o ho-DI-e - kontree, vicee, antee: kon-TRE-e, vi-CE-e, an-TE-e, o KON-tre-e, VI-ce-e, An-te-e - chefurbo, yarcento: CHEF-UR-bo, YAR-CENT-o, o chef-UR-bo, yar-CENT-o - samideani: SAM-i-de-A-ni, o sam-i-de-A-ni Quale ni pronuncas oli...? E quale ni devus, en maxim bona Ido, pronuncar oli...? Kad ulu savas o konjektas prie? Kordial tilbaldo! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1945 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76238 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2005 17:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Oct 2005 17:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Oct 2005 17:04:57 -0000 Received: from gr.189.163.129.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.163.129] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EOebY-000M6c-36; Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:04:56 +0100 To: Linguolisto , Idolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:06:50 +0100 Message-ID: <200510918650.978608@SonyFX805> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Lexiko Ido-Angla X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=v-JzL_BE0DR_riSUyq6bwOWjQj53nCVeSaPoXpvB0motELg Provizora lexiko Ido-Angla, kun 14 187 Idala vorti (od expresuri), esas nun= ye idolinguo.org.uk/idan.htm e trovebla per idolinguo.org.uk Ica listo A= -Z inkluzas la antea tri listi til la liitero R, kun poka chanji. Robert. = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1946 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45179 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2005 08:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Oct 2005 08:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2005 08:46:18 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.85]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 49389026 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:42:10 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:35:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20051009170036.27510.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20051009170036.27510.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510101035.56542.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Quale vi pronuncas oli? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=S3l2-FCU3rCBEqdzvAXu6QiZrsX9OyjG1gaRD-AK9XtUKwgXI65H X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El Domingo 09 Octubre 2005 19:00, Partaka escribi=F3: > Saluto, Steve! > Ta= men, tu devas agnoskar, ke to es ya partikularajo > tua, nam tu ipsa koncia= s pri la justa pronunco Yes, nun me savas, ma me koncieskis pri to nur kelk= a semani ante nun. E nun me devas penar por deskustumeskar. > Yen kelk alt= ra vorti, *kuya pronunco es ya ne tante > klara ad omnu. Quale ni pronuncas= oli? hOdie, nam "en plursilaba radiki, i e u nemediate avan vokalo ne dar= fas recevar l'acento". Ma on pronuncas "ca-dIe", nam "se monosilaba (unsil= aba) radiko {exemple dio} divenas lasta parto di kompozajo o derivajo, la = vokali i, u portas la acento, quale kande li trovesas en simpla vorto." P= ri l'altra vorti quin vu mencionis, me pronuncas li: kontrEe, vicEe, antEe.= Esas normala ke on devas acentizar l'avan-lasta vokalo en vorti kom: chef= Urbo, yarcEnto, samideAni. Ma me ne trovas regulo por tala kompozaji. Semb= las a me ke lo maxim bona esas duesma acentizo min forta ye la komenco di = ta vorti: chEfUrbo, yArcEnto, sAmideAni. Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1947 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 60234 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2005 13:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2005 13:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp1alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.144) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2005 13:43:26 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.56.187.165) by vsmtp1alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 434ADFAB00016972 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:38:01 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5ce69$b13a40c0$a5bb3852@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:42:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Re: "La sucedanto" sucesanta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=DBIL0x4P8tl5Nz7DlpVlE5IEoIXLQEJFD0WOi9grfGDn5IE X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< Segun mea kompreno nur tri strukturi darfas en Ido esar adjektivo o <<< substantivo NE PREIRATA da prepoziciono, nome: <<< - la subjekto <<< - la objekto direta <<< - la komplemento di "esar" <<< Altra komplementi...devas esar...PREIRATA da ula prepoziciono. <<< [E.A. Rodi] Nu, existas en la Gramatiko (plu precize la Sintaxo) di le AFGHIR.LGr, e praktike anke di Ido, la "komplemento dil subjekto" e "la komplemento dil objekto", qui generale ne bezonas irga prepoziciono. A) PREDIKATA KOMPLEMENTO DIL SUBJEKTO To es substantivo o adjektivo, +quu predikas kelko pri la subjekto (sintaxe, ol atribuas certena qualeso al subjekto). La konstrukto facesas per ula VERBI KOPULA, quala "aspektar, divenar, kreskar, mortar, naskar, restar, semblar, vivar...". Verbo "esar" apartenas a ca kategorio; fakte, ol es la precipua verbo kopula. Exempli: "lu aspektas felica" [Dyer, Ido-English] "lu divenis malada, povra, richa, grasa" [Dyer] "li restis, simple e noble, amiki" [Carlevaro] "ito semblas stranja" [Martignon] "me nomesas legiono" [Bib., Dyer] - lu naskis povra e mortos povra - lu kreskas sana Tala konstrukto es absolute internaciona. A the sky became darker and darker ...la cielo divenis sempre plu obskura F elle est rest�e malade pendant des ann�es ...el restis malada dum plura yari G der Baum w�chst gerade, krumm ...l'arboro kreskas rekta, kurva H el lago parece un espejo ...la lago semblas spegulo I uno sconosciuto divenne presidente ...ulu ne-konocata divenis prezidanto R kajyetsya, on umniy chyelovyek ...lu semblas inteligenta persono Tala konstrukto trovesas ank en la Latina e la Greka antiqua. L nemo mortalis usque ad mortem beatus mansit ...nulu mortiva restis felica til morto Gr eksothen fainesthe tois anthropois dikaioi ...extere vi semblas yusta a la homi B) PREDIKATA KOMPLEMENTO DIL OBJEKTO To es substantivo o adjektivo, +quu predikas kelko pri la objekto (sintaxe, ol atribuas certena qualeso al objekto). La konstrukto facesas per ula verbi, quala "deklarar, elektar, igar, judikar, konsiderar, lasar, montrar su, nomar, nomizar, sentar su, trovar...". Exempli: "lu igis sua flechi venenoza" [Dyer: Ido-English] "me igas la vitro neruptebla" [KGD] "me lasis il tranquila" [Dyer] "sentar su varma" [Dyer] "lua gepatri nomizis il Jean" [Dyer] "me nomizis ol 'tukucho' " [Neves] "me judikis bona la vino" [KGD] "la soldati montris su kurajoza" [Talmey] "puerino, quan il sempre trovis kushita sur la ventro" [Houillon] "judikar (kom) bona" [Feder: Deutsch-Ido] "me judikas lu (kom) fola" [Beaufront-Couturat: Fran�ais-Ido] Tala konstrukto es absolute internaciona. A I consider Shakespeare the greatest playright ...me konsideras Shakespeare la maxim granda dramatifisto F mener la vie dure a quelqu'un ...igar la vivo desfacila a ulu G alle nennen ihn Doktor ...omni nomas il Doktoro H el jurado lo juzg� inocente ...la jurio judikis lu inocenta I l'assemblea lo elesse presidente ...l'asemblo elektis lu prezidanto R yego obyavili pobyelityelyem ...lun ili proklamis vinkinto Tala konstrukto trovesas ank en la Latina e la Greka antiqua. L omnes Croesum ditissimum regem putabant ...omni reputis Cresus rejo richega Gr oromen gar panta alethe onta a legete ...nam ni vidas omna vera la kozi quin vi dicas N.B. La "komplemento dil objekto" divenas "komplemento dil subjekto" en la voco pasiva: - l'asemblo elektis lu prezidanto (komplemento dil objekto) - lu elektesis prezidanto (komplemento dil subjekto) da l'asemblo. ---------- DECIDI DIL AKADEMIO [Progreso IV, 1911] 230. On decidas, ke on bezonas altra adverbo kam QUALE por indikar atributo. 231. On adoptas KOM por ta ofico. 232. On repulsas YE por ta ofico. ---------- KONKLUZO Konforme a la naturaleso, a la generala uzado, ed a l'indiki vortarala, la komplemento dil subjekto e la komplemento dil objekto en Ido darfas, kelka-kaze mem devas, ne esar pre-irata da prepoziciono. Mea citaji, de la maxim kompetenta Idisti, e de la maxim autoritatoza vorto-libri, ne lasas a me dubiti pri to. Nur kande existas reala, ne fantaziala ambigueso, esas oportuna, o mem necesa, pre-pozar "kom" (pri "ye" me havas kelka rezervo). Ne necesesas dicar, ke to es nur mea PERSONALA vid-punto. ---------- <<< en "me trovis l'intrigo kaptiva ed ecitanta, same kam bone brasita" <<< me ne komprenas la vorto "brasita" [E.A.R.] brasita: (fig.) concocted, contrived, plotted (schemes, plots, etc.) [Dyer] <<< Ni devas inspektar la 4esma etajo, se vu ne opozas lo." <<< Quon vu opinionas? [E.A.R.] Segun la vortari, "on opozas ONUA ARGUMENTI a la propozo" ma ne "on opozas la propozo". Do "on opozas SU a l'inspekto" ma ne "on opozas l'inspekto". ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1948 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97753 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2005 17:35:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Oct 2005 17:35:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Oct 2005 17:35:50 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2005 17:33:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Oct 2005 17:33:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:33:43 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c5ce69$b13a40c0$a5bb3852@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: "La sucedanto" sucesanta X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=tyzFa67EutWvoHDa_RzJr7oz7IMnfuYnffBIh3vFeM93mPA X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Carlo, Me dankas vua expliko, sempre tante klara e kompleta. Me adopt= os vua opiniono, e korektigos mea texto konseque. Nun, me audacas prizent= ar un plusa dubito linguala a vu e ad omna Linguolistani. La dubito es qua= formo es plu korekta, e pro quo, de ta du: - "Il esas blanka" od - "Il e= sas blanko"? La kuntexto esas kompreneble homo qua indikas sua raso. Sembl= as a me ke amba formi esas fakte interchanjebla, nam la adjektivo esas uz= ebla por aludar pronomo substantiva, e la substantivo anke es uzebla kom "= homo qua esas blanka". Ma forsan me eroras. Me predankas via respondo. In= tertempe, vi omna standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI. --- In linguolisto@yahoo= groups.com, "Carlo Nardini" wrote: > > > <<< Segun mea komp= reno nur tri strukturi darfas en Ido esar adjektivo o <<< > substantivo NE= PREIRATA da prepoziciono, nome: > <<< - la subjekto > <<< - la objekto dir= eta > <<< - la komplemento di "esar" > <<< Altra komplementi...devas esar..= .PREIRATA da ula prepoziciono. > <<< [E.A. Rodi] > > > Nu, existas en la = Gramatiko (plu precize la Sintaxo) di le AFGHIR.LGr, e > praktike anke di = Ido, la "komplemento dil subjekto" e "la komplemento dil > objekto", qui g= enerale ne bezonas irga prepoziciono. > > > A) PREDIKATA KOMPLEMENTO DIL = SUBJEKTO > To es substantivo o adjektivo, +quu predikas kelko pri la subjek= to (sintaxe, > ol atribuas certena qualeso al subjekto). > > La konstrukt= o facesas per ula VERBI KOPULA, quala "aspektar, divenar, > kreskar, morta= r, naskar, restar, semblar, vivar...". > Verbo "esar" apartenas a ca katego= rio; fakte, ol es la precipua verbo > kopula. > > Exempli: > "lu aspektas= felica" [Dyer, Ido-English] > "lu divenis malada, povra, richa, grasa" [Dy= er] > "li restis, simple e noble, amiki" [Carlevaro] > "ito semblas stranja= " [Martignon] > "me nomesas legiono" [Bib., Dyer] > - lu naskis povra e mor= tos povra > - lu kreskas sana > > Tala konstrukto es absolute internaciona= . > A the sky became darker and darker > ...la cielo divenis sempre plu obs= kura > F elle est rest=E9e malade pendant des ann=E9es > ...el restis malad= a dum plura yari > G der Baum w=E4chst gerade, krumm > ...l'arboro kreskas = rekta, kurva > H el lago parece un espejo > ...la lago semblas spegulo > I = uno sconosciuto divenne presidente > ...ulu ne-konocata divenis prezidanto = > R kajyetsya, on umniy chyelovyek > ...lu semblas inteligenta persono > >= Tala konstrukto trovesas ank en la Latina e la Greka antiqua. > L nemo mor= talis usque ad mortem beatus mansit > ...nulu mortiva restis felica til mor= to > Gr eksothen fainesthe tois anthropois dikaioi > ...extere vi semblas y= usta a la homi > > > B) PREDIKATA KOMPLEMENTO DIL OBJEKTO > To es substan= tivo o adjektivo, +quu predikas kelko pri la objekto (sintaxe, > ol atribu= as certena qualeso al objekto). > > La konstrukto facesas per ula verbi, q= uala "deklarar, elektar, igar, > judikar, konsiderar, lasar, montrar su, n= omar, nomizar, sentar su, > trovar...". > > Exempli: > "lu igis sua flechi= venenoza" [Dyer: Ido-English] > "me igas la vitro neruptebla" [KGD] > "me = lasis il tranquila" [Dyer] > "sentar su varma" [Dyer] > "lua gepatri nomizi= s il Jean" [Dyer] > "me nomizis ol 'tukucho' " [Neves] > "me judikis bona l= a vino" [KGD] > "la soldati montris su kurajoza" [Talmey] > "puerino, quan = il sempre trovis kushita sur la ventro" [Houillon] > "judikar (kom) bona" [= Feder: Deutsch-Ido] > "me judikas lu (kom) fola" [Beaufront-Couturat: Fran= =E7ais-Ido] > > Tala konstrukto es absolute internaciona. > A I consider S= hakespeare the greatest playright > ...me konsideras Shakespeare la maxim g= randa dramatifisto > F mener la vie dure a quelqu'un > ...igar la vivo desf= acila a ulu > G alle nennen ihn Doktor > ...omni nomas il Doktoro > H el ju= rado lo juzg=F3 inocente > ...la jurio judikis lu inocenta > I l'assemblea = lo elesse presidente > ...l'asemblo elektis lu prezidanto > R yego obyavili= pobyelityelyem > ...lun ili proklamis vinkinto > > Tala konstrukto troves= as ank en la Latina e la Greka antiqua. > L omnes Croesum ditissimum regem = putabant > ...omni reputis Cresus rejo richega > Gr oromen gar panta alethe= onta a legete > ...nam ni vidas omna vera la kozi quin vi dicas > > N.B. = La "komplemento dil objekto" divenas "komplemento dil subjekto" en la > vo= co pasiva: > - l'asemblo elektis lu prezidanto (komplemento dil objekto) > = - lu elektesis prezidanto (komplemento ddil subjekto) da l'asemblo. > > ---= ------- > > DECIDI DIL AKADEMIO [Progreso IV, 1911] > 230. On decidas, ke = on bezonas altra adverbo kam QUALE por indikar atributo. > 231. On adoptas= KOM por ta ofico. > 232. On repulsas YE por ta ofico. > > ---------- > >= KONKLUZO > > Konforme a la naturaleso, a la generala uzado, ed a l'indiki= vortarala, la > komplemento dil subjekto e la komplemento dil objekto en = Ido darfas, > kelka-kaze mem devas, ne esar pre-irata da prepoziciono. > M= ea citaji, de la maxim kompetenta Idisti, e de la maxim autoritatoza > vor= to-libri, ne lasas a me dubiti pri to. > > Nur kande existas reala, ne fan= taziala ambigueso, esas oportuna, o mem > necesa, pre-pozar "kom" (pri "ye= " me havas kelka rezervo). > > Ne necesesas dicar, ke to es nur mea PERSON= ALA vid-punto. > > ---------- > > <<< en "me trovis l'intrigo kaptiva ed = ecitanta, same kam bone brasita" > <<< me ne komprenas la vorto "brasita" = [E.A.R.] > > brasita: (fig.) concocted, contrived, plotted (schemes, plots= , etc.) [Dyer] > > <<< Ni devas inspektar la 4esma etajo, se vu ne opozas= lo." > <<< Quon vu opinionas? [E.A.R.] > > Segun la vortari, "on opozas O= NUA ARGUMENTI a la propozo" ma ne "on opozas > la propozo". > Do "on opoza= s SU a l'inspekto" ma ne "on opozas l'inspekto". > > ---------- > > Carlo= Nardini > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1949 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70930 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 02:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 02:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.51) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 02:15:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 61714 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Oct 2005 02:15:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20051016021532.61712.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.54.235.100] by web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:15:32 CEST Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:15:32 +0200 (CEST) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Partaka Subject: "Patro Nia" ed "Odiseo" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=QgXH5Pza9vGAY9d0-nnGbrILDS7ST_TRzvfvUo9opWA3LlbzVOjDsNA X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Kara samideani: Me atencigis, olim, pri posibla ambiguajo che l'unesma lineo dil "Patro Nia", ne nur en Ido, ma anke en Eo, ed en preske omna versioni relatanta helpo-lingui... Hodie, me deziras montrar a vi' simila e maxim bon exemplo, en olqua nia samideano, Jean Martignon, evitas tal ambiguajo, ya tre facile ed efikive, che ilua maxim recenta sendajo pri "L'Odiseo" da Homeros: - Telemakhos, tu qua esas "agora"-parolanto superba ed iracosa, tu parolis insultante ni e tu volas tegar ni per shaminda makulo. Ibe, on 'parlas' direte a Telemakhos, same kam che l' "Patro Nia", on pregas direte a Deo. Do, on dicez: - Patro Nia, Tu qua esas en la cielo: Tua nomo santigesez! Tua regno advenez! ... Se on povas evitar ambiguajo, on devas evitar ol. Saluti e til balde! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1950 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20058 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 04:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 04:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 04:25:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 04:25:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 04:25:40 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:25:40 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: anorexio ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=NJut5JkbL1vpL9O_u3H7XTtKkXENl7rOZ6HK6xY6KSMNQoH-lPw X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Ka 'anorexio' es korekta ? [eng.: anorexia] [span.: anorexia] [port.: a= norexia] [fr: anorexie] [germ.: Anorexia] [it.: anoressia] [dutch: an= orexia, anorexie] [interlingua: ] [lfn: anorexia] [esper.: anoreksio, = senapetiteco] [novial: anorexie*] * Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1951 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88223 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 04:34:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 04:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 04:34:45 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 04:34:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 04:34:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:34:43 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: anorexio ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=1EIXnHx1ZSPj4mDpnnioFviLpDOJYVAmsBT96CJvkALp1UTPZhM X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe e [rus.: anoreksiya] Danko, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups= .com, "jacquesdehe" wrote: > > > Ka 'anorexio' es kore= kta ? > > [eng.: anorexia] [span.: anorexia] [port.: anorexia] > [fr: = anorexie] [germ.: Anorexia] [it.: anoressia] > [dutch: anorexia, anorex= ie] > [interlingua: ] [lfn: anorexia] > [esper.: anoreksio, senapetite= co] [novial: anorexie*] > * > Kordiale, > > Jacques > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1952 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93980 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 04:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 04:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 04:49:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 04:49:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 04:49:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:49:14 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Ka 'anoxio' es korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=sD8bFGWJVdGR7NYnB6OCA871KeMdtxNbRSweaDtclnvSg7YS8OU X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Saluto Ka 'anoxio' es korekta ? [ido: anoxio*] [eng.: anoxia] [span.: a= noxia] [rus.: anoksiya] [port.: anoxia] [fr: anoxie] [germ.: Anoxie] = [it.: anossia] [dutch: anoxie] [interlingua: anoxia] [lfn: anoxia] [= esper.: anoksio] [novial: anoxie*] Danko Kordiale, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1953 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24698 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 07:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 07:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp16.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.89) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 07:22:07 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1603.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 32D527000085 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:22:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1625 (wwinf1625 [172.22.147.49]) by mwinf1603.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3036F7000084 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:22:05 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20051016072205197.3036F7000084@mwinf1603.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <15568145.1129447325188.JavaMail.www@wwinf1625> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:22:05 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] Ka 'anoxio' es korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=rEUEdxD4KFVANlMIFQ6Luvgr-YLeAZwNH8qF56p-B_Jm7lo X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Saluto Jacques, Per "Systran" tradukilo me trovis la sequanta GAFHI traduk= uri : G: Magersucht A: anorexia F: anorexie H: anorexia I: anoressia = Pluse per la dicionario "FreeLang" me trovis la sequanta Esperantala tradu= kuro: Espo : anoreksio Do fine segun me *anorexio semblas a me bona Ido-t= radukuro Loik > Message du 16/10/05 06:49 > De : "jacquesdehe" > A : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet := [linguo] Ka 'anoxio' es korekta ? > > > Saluto > > Ka 'anoxio' es korek= ta ? > > [ido: anoxio*] > [eng.: anoxia] [span.: anoxia] [rus.: anoksiya= ] > [port.: anoxia] [fr: anoxie] [germ.: Anoxie] > [it.: anossia] [d= utch: anoxie] > [interlingua: anoxia] [lfn: anoxia] > [esper.: anoksio= ] [novial: anoxie*] > > Danko > > Kordiale, > > Jacques > > > > >= > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1954 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44679 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 08:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 08:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 08:45:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 08:44:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 08:44:35 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 08:44:35 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <15568145.1129447325188.JavaMail.www@wwinf1625> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ka 'anoxio' es korekta ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=tUaZ1AB55JddU2sru7NoSgbBQ22wRv5lmDPFhFs6pS3pepqjvfE X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe Saluto Lo=EFk, 'Anoxio' non es 'anorexio' Amba vorti existas kun diferenta= signifiki. Por 'anorexio'' G: 'Magersucht' es sinonimo di G: 'Anorexie'.= En Google tu povas verifikar e tovar: Anorexie =3D Magersucht: Gr=FCnde,= H=E4ufigkeit und BehandlungAnorexie =3D Magersucht: Definition, Gr=FCnde,= H=E4ufigkeit, Behandlung der Erkrankung. www.novafeel.de/ernaehrung/anore= xie.htm Kordiale, Jacques * --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, LOIC.= LANDAIS@w... wrote: > > Saluto Jacques, > > Per "Systran" tradukilo me tro= vis la sequanta GAFHI tradukuri : > G: Magersucht > A: anorexia > F: ano= rexie > H: anorexia > I: anoressia > > Pluse per la dicionario "FreeLan= g" me trovis la sequanta Esperantala tradukuro: > Espo : anoreksio > > D= o fine segun me *anorexio semblas a me bona Ido-tradukuro > > Loik > > >= > Message du 16/10/05 06:49 > > De : "jacquesdehe" > > = A : linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > > Copie =C3=A0 : > > Objet : [linguo] Ka= 'anoxio' es korekta ? > > > > > > Saluto > > > > Ka 'anoxio' es korekta= ? > > > > [ido: anoxio*] > > [eng.: anoxia] [span.: anoxia] [rus.: anok= siya] > > [port.: anoxia] [fr: anoxie] [germ.: Anoxie] > > [it.: anos= sia] [dutch: anoxie] > > [interlingua: anoxia] [lfn: anoxia] > > [esp= er.: anoksio] [novial: anoxie*] > > > > Danko > > > > Kordiale, > > > >= Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1955 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacquesdehe@yahoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72443 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 10:01:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 10:01:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 10:01:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 10:01:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2005 10:01:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 10:01:08 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "jacquesdehe" Subject: anorexio* ed anoxio* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=150111253; y=nIi5A11RVUzfIj-hNJOjtHCGlMnUtojwtyXSNpdiDXjZfaU55W8 X-Yahoo-Profile: jacquesdehe anorexio* ed anoxio* anorexio* ? =E9tait une question anoxio* ? =E9tai= t une autre question F: anorexie: perte de l'app=E9tit [ido: anorexio*] [e= ng.: anorexia] [span.: anorexia] [rus.: anoreksiya] [port.: anorexia] [= fr: anorexie] [germ.: Magersucht, Anorexie] [it.: anoressia] [dutch: anor= exia, anorexie] [interlingua: anorexia] [lfn: anorexia] [esper.: anorek= sio, senapetiteco] [novial: anorexie*] F: anoxie: diminution importante = de la quantit=E9 d'oxyg=E8ne dans les tissus. [ido: anoxio*] [eng.: anoxia= ] [span.: anoxia] [rus.: anoksiya] [port.: anoxia] [fr: anoxie] [germ.:= Sauerstoffmangel, Anoxie] [it.: anossia] [dutch: anoxie] [interlingua: = anoxia] [lfn: anoxia] [esper.: anoksio] [novial: anoxie] De nombreux mot= s allemands savants sont doubles (synonymes): l'un (vulgaire, d'origine ger= manique), l'autre (plus cultiv=E9 d'origine romane voire fran=E7aise) ex. = Magersucht ; Anorexie ex. Sauerstoffmangel ; Anoxie Le mot plus cultiv=E9,= parce qu'international, est plus exploitable pour une s=E9lection interli= nguistique. Amicalement, Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1956 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47842 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2005 12:41:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Oct 2005 12:41:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp16.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.23.89) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2005 12:41:14 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1603.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1BCA37000087 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:41:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1628 (wwinf1628 [172.22.147.102]) by mwinf1603.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1A3C27000085 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:41:03 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20051016124103107.1A3C27000085@mwinf1603.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <15124269.1129466463101.JavaMail.www@wwinf1628> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:41:03 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [linguo] anorexio* ed anoxio* X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=G4B6t_E-uqS3tDhi3zLO5AhYrGxqqpiZTGTrBjMIVX6vDRs X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Exkuzez me Jacques konfundir la du questioni ma camatine me ne devis esar = tre bone vekigita kande me respondis a vua mesajo ! Do nun me kunkordas kun= vu por la vorto *anoxio. Idistala saluti Loik > Message du 16/10/05 12:01= > De : "jacquesdehe" > A : linguolisto@yahoogroups.= com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet : [linguo] anorexio* ed anoxio* > > anorex= io* ed anoxio* > > anorexio* ? =C3=A9tait une question > anoxio* ? =C3= =A9tait une autre question > > F: anorexie: perte de l'app=C3=A9tit > [ido= : anorexio*] > [eng.: anorexia] [span.: anorexia] [rus.: anoreksiya] > = [port.: anorexia] [fr: anorexie] [germ.: Magersucht, Anorexie] > [it.: ano= ressia] [dutch: anorexia, anorexie] > [interlingua: anorexia] [lfn: ano= rexia] [esper.: anoreksio, > senapetiteco] [novial: anorexie*] > > F: a= noxie: diminution importante de la quantit=C3=A9 d'oxyg=C3=A8ne > dans les= tissus. > [ido: anoxio*] > [eng.: anoxia] [span.: anoxia] [rus.: anoksiy= a] [port.: anoxia] > [fr: anoxie] [germ.: Sauerstoffmangel, Anoxie] [it.= : anossia] > [dutch: anoxie] > [interlingua: anoxia] [lfn: anoxia] [esp= er.: anoksio] > [novial: anoxie] > > De nombreux mots allemands savants so= nt doubles (synonymes): > l'un (vulgaire, d'origine germanique), > l'autre= (plus cultiv=C3=A9 d'origine romane voire fran=C3=A7aise) > ex. Magersucht= ; Anorexie > ex. Sauerstoffmangel ; Anoxie > > Le mot plus cultiv=C3=A9, = parce qu'international, est plus exploitable > pour une s=C3=A9lection int= erlinguistique. > > Amicalement, > > Jacques From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1957 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15547 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2005 08:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2005 08:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2005 08:32:18 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.199.122]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 50222168 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:35:31 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:28:59 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510181028.59332.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: *si X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=EOZU7AYygG4bA5e0cfr-1hORhUgLRfmQsN7KVwkypR1TcyLwy6h3 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara linguolistani Ja plura semani ante nun me dubitis quale on respondas kande ulu dicas exemple "Me savas ya ke tu ne havas intereso partoprenar", ma se on tote ne konkordas. Se on respondas "yes", l'altru povas pensar ke on konkordas kon lu, e se on respondas "no" lu pensas ke on "ne havas intereso". La sola bona respondo pri qua me povas pensar nun esas "Ma me volas partoprenar!", ma respondo en un vorto esus plu frapanta. Hodie me hazarde trovis la vorto *si en la dicionario da Pesch e lu definas ol tale: "Adverbo per qua onu afirmas la kontreajo di lo jus dicita. (ex.: "Me esas *certena ke vu ne venos." - "Si, me venos." - "No!" - "Si!"). - F. Ol esas do apta vorto en multa kazi. Kad ol intertempe esas oficaligita? Kad existas altra posiblaji? Ka ta vorto esas necesa? Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1958 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63746 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2005 14:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2005 14:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp11.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.31) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2005 14:08:46 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1106.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E083E1C000E3 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:08:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1102 (wwinf1102 [172.22.142.29]) by mwinf1106.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DB12A1C000DF; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:08:40 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20051018140840897.DB12A1C000DF@mwinf1106.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <9135190.1129644520884.JavaMail.www@wwinf1102> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: Hans Stuifbergen Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-CC: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:08:40 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Tr: Re: [uli-ido] pago X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=vCEgrvaX16hmLkTIpLtxOMPRONjXGPxZtnHwuC5RHKG-X5s X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Segun la deziro di Hans me sendas a linguolisto la diskutado pri Euro > M= essage du 18/10/05 10:33 > De : "Hans Stuifbergen" > A : uli-ido@yahoogrou= ps.com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet : Re: [uli-ido] pago > > Kara Alfred, > = > Me ne konkordas kun vu pri ke "euro" es la radiko en Ido, to nulafoye > = oficale determinesis. Do, olua uzo ankore es libera. Tasmen, me propozas ke= > ca diskuto sendesez a Linguolisto. > > Saluti amikala, > > Hans St. >= -- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alfred Neussner" > To: > = Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago > > = > > Kara amiko, > > Ankorfoye: EURO esas entote la radiko, la radiko ne > = > esas EUR e la O ne esas sufixo di Ido indikanta > > singularo, quan on po= vus remplasar per I ye pluralo. > > Qua opinionas, ke lu devus dicar EURO p= lurale, ta > > devas dicar EUROi. "metro" es altra kazo. To esas > > nocion= i quale "veturo, domo". La EURO existas kom > > diversa formi: Bilieti di e= x. "10 EURO" (e ne EUROS, > > regardez vua pekuniuyo) e moneti di ex. "1 EU= R0" o > > "2 EURO" (ne EUROS, regardez vua moneti). > > Se me donas a vu 2 = EURO, lore to esas un peco di > > 2 EURO, se me donas 2 EUROi, lore me dona= s du > > moneti di 1 EURO. > > Ica disputo ja eventis en Germania ante cirk= . 130 > > yari, kande la posto emisis postmarki ye 3,5,10 etp. > > Pfennige= (pluralo). Pro protesto da linguisti on nov-editis > > la sama postmarki k= un "Pfennig". La lora argumentado > > esas anke mea expliko. Me savas, ke y= e multa lingui on > > uzas l`etaloni plurale (Lire, Pesos, Pesetas), ma to = ne es > > logika e me preferus, se on uzus Ido plu precize kam la nacionala= lingui. > > Kordiala saluti A.Neussner > > > > > > ----- Original Message = ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:06 PM > > = Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago > > > > > > > > Kara Alfred, > > > > Vu esas ju= sta protestar kontre "Euris" ma pri "Euri" kad ol esas vere > > superflua ?= > > Tamen semblas a me ke : > > - pri metro qua esas longesunajo, on dicas= : 3 metri e ne 3 metro > > - pri gramo qua esas pezunajo, on dicas 3 grami= e ne 3 gramo. > > - e.c. > > Do pro quo pri Euro qua esas monetunajo, on n= e povus dicar 3 Euri ? > > > > Saluti de Nantes > > Lo=C3=AFc > > > >> Mess= age du 17/10/05 18:38 > >> De : "Alfred Neussner" > >> A : "ULI" > >> Cop= ie =C3=A0 : > >> Objet : [uli-ido] pago > >> > >> Kara samideani, > >> Prin= cipe me konsentas, ke l`ULI pagas necesa agi > >> propagala, ma me prizus, = ke on, kande on publike pregas pro asento a > >> pago, > >> indikus la cir= kuma sumo > >> pri qua on devas decidar. > >> Me protestas kontre "Euris"! = To esas sensenca > >> duopla pluralo, quankam pluralo esas tote superflua. = > >> La "o" di EURO ne esas sufixo indikanta singularo, > >> ma parto integ= ra di la radiko same kam ye "hero-o" > >> "hero-" esas la ne-altrigebla rad= iko. La pluralo di > >> "heroo" esas "heroi" e ne "heri, heris, herois". > = >> EURO esas propra nomo di etalono, qua ne bezonas > >> specala pluralo. 1= EURO esas same klara kam > >> 100 EURO. Nur kande on eventuale parolas pre= cipue > >> pri 1-EURO-moneti, lore esus sencoza dicar > >> 10 EUROi ye la r= ispektiva kazo. > >> L`uzo di EURI, EUROS, esas transpreno > >> di nelogika= linguo-uzo ek diversa nacionala lingui, > >> quo ton ne plusensozigas. Ido= esas plu preciza kam > >> multa lingui, ni konservez lo. > >> Saluti A.Neu= ssner > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1959 Return-Path: X-Sender: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46472 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2005 15:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2005 15:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp11.wanadoo.fr) (193.252.22.31) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2005 15:18:00 -0000 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1102.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A491A1C000B3 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:17:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1103 (wwinf1103 [172.22.142.30]) by mwinf1102.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6F79E1C000A7; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:17:49 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20051018151749457.6F79E1C000A7@mwinf1102.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <22619908.1129648669427.JavaMail.www@wwinf1103> To: uli-ido@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Wum-Nature: EMAIL-NATURE X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-CC: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:17:49 +0200 (CEST) X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr Reply-To: loic.landais@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4139878; y=biYz_jTMXHCxoOYjFjEmXyKCmW1p_gufZHiHRDLlYbPI48o X-Yahoo-Profile: landloik Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kara Alfred, Me ne deziras disputar kun vu ma unike donar mea vidpunto. Me = ne komprenis to quon vu skribis : > "metro" es altra kazo. To esas nocioni= quale "veturo, domo". Segun me Euro esas monetunajo quale metro esas lo= ngesunajo e gramo esas pezunajo. Do se on dicas metri o grami pro quo ne Eu= ri ? Vu skribis : > La EURO existas kom diversa formi: Bilieti di ex. "10 E= URO" (e ne EUROS,regardez vua pekuniuyo) Vu esas justa ma esas l'europana c= entrala banko qua decidis ne imprimar la pluralo pro ke ol diferas segun la= diversa landi dil euro-zono, to quo komplikabus la imprimado di bilieti e = peci. Fakte en la euro-zono jus la Germania e la Grekia ne havas pluralo po= r euro : - Anglia, Francia, Hispania, Portugal, Dania e Suedia : euro/euro= s - Italia : euro/euri - Germana e Grekia : euro/euro To povus explikar pr= o quo vu preferus ke Euro esez radiko. Ka ne ? Pluse segun la internaciona = normo ISO-4217, la ISO kodexo dil euro uzata en interbankala kambo esas EUR= . Do esas ankor bela diskuto-temo por la Linguala Komitato. Ka ne ! Amikala= saluti Lo=C3=AFc > Message du 18/10/05 10:05 > De : "Alfred Neussner" > = A : uli-ido@yahoogroups.com > Copie =C3=A0 : > Objet : Re: [uli-ido] pago = > > Kara amiko, > Ankorfoye: EURO esas entote la radiko, la radiko ne > es= as EUR e la O ne esas sufixo di Ido indikanta > singularo, quan on povus re= mplasar per I ye pluralo. > Qua opinionas, ke lu devus dicar EURO plurale, = ta > devas dicar EUROi. "metro" es altra kazo. To esas > nocioni quale "vet= uro, domo". La EURO existas kom > diversa formi: Bilieti di ex. "10 EURO" (= e ne EUROS, > regardez vua pekuniuyo) e moneti di ex. "1 EUR0" o > "2 EURO"= (ne EUROS, regardez vua moneti). > Se me donas a vu 2 EURO, lore to esas u= n peco di > 2 EURO, se me donas 2 EUROi, lore me donas du > moneti di 1 EUR= O. > Ica disputo ja eventis en Germania ante cirk. 130 > yari, kande la pos= to emisis postmarki ye 3,5,10 etp. > Pfennige (pluralo). Pro protesto da li= nguisti on nov-editis > la sama postmarki kun "Pfennig". La lora argumentad= o > esas anke mea expliko. Me savas, ke ye multa lingui on > uzas l`etaloni= plurale (Lire, Pesos, Pesetas), ma to ne es > logika e me preferus, se on = uzus Ido plu precize kam la nacionala lingui. > Kordiala saluti A.Neussner = > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, Octob= er 17, 2005 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago > > > > Kara Alfred, = > > Vu esas justa protestar kontre "Euris" ma pri "Euri" kad ol esas vere = > superflua ? > Tamen semblas a me ke : > - pri metro qua esas longesunajo= , on dicas : 3 metri e ne 3 metro > - pri gramo qua esas pezunajo, on dicas= 3 grami e ne 3 gramo. > - e.c. > Do pro quo pri Euro qua esas monetunajo, = on ne povus dicar 3 Euri ? > > Saluti de Nantes > Lo=C3=AFc > > > Message= du 17/10/05 18:38 > > De : "Alfred Neussner" > > A : "ULI" > > Copie =C3= =A0 : > > Objet : [uli-ido] pago > > > > Kara samideani, > > Principe me ko= nsentas, ke l`ULI pagas necesa agi > > propagala, ma me prizus, ke on, kand= e on publike pregas pro asento a pago, > > indikus la cirkuma sumo > > pri = qua on devas decidar. > > Me protestas kontre "Euris"! To esas sensenca > >= duopla pluralo, quankam pluralo esas tote superflua. > > La "o" di EURO ne= esas sufixo indikanta singularo, > > ma parto integra di la radiko same ka= m ye "hero-o" > > "hero-" esas la ne-altrigebla radiko. La pluralo di > > "= heroo" esas "heroi" e ne "heri, heris, herois". > > EURO esas propra nomo d= i etalono, qua ne bezonas > > specala pluralo. 1 EURO esas same klara kam >= > 100 EURO. Nur kande on eventuale parolas precipue > > pri 1-EURO-moneti,= lore esus sencoza dicar > > 10 EUROi ye la rispektiva kazo. > > L`uzo di E= URI, EUROS, esas transpreno > > di nelogika linguo-uzo ek diversa nacionala= lingui, > > quo ton ne plusensozigas. Ido esas plu preciza kam > > multa l= ingui, ni konservez lo. > > Saluti A.Neussner [Non-text portions of this m= essage have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1960 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64722 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2005 17:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Oct 2005 17:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Oct 2005 17:36:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Oct 2005 17:36:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Oct 2005 17:36:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:35:59 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510181028.59332.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: *si X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=neOhpaXDU6EI7jt-FNYc-lU_PmVxqxkW4V2OfdbibZmuMp8 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Steve, Segun quon me lektis ulaloke, ma me ja ne memoras ube, questio= ni negala esas respondizenda same kam se li ne havus la vorti negala. Do:= -Ka tu volas partoprenar?/Ka tu ne volas partoprenar? -Yes(, me volas). -= No(, me ne volas). Segun to, anke komento kontenanta vorto negala devus es= ar respondizata simile: "Me savas ya ke tu havas intereso partoprenar" OD= "Me savas ya ke tu ne havas intereso partoprenar" -Yes(, me havas intereso= partoprenar). -No(, me ne havas intereso partoprenar). Standez bone. Edu= ardo A. RODI. > Kara linguolistani > > Ja plura semani ante nun me dubiti= s quale on respondas kande ulu dicas exemple > "Me savas ya ke tu ne hava= s intereso partoprenar", ma se on tote ne > konkordas. Se on respondas "y= es", l'altru povas pensar ke on konkordas kon > lu, e se on respondas "no= " lu pensas ke on "ne havas intereso". La sola bona > respondo pri qua me= povas pensar nun esas "Ma me volas partoprenar!", ma > respondo en un vo= rto esus plu frapanta. > > Hodie me hazarde trovis la vorto *si en la dici= onario da Pesch e lu definas ol > tale: "Adverbo per qua onu afirmas la k= ontreajo di lo jus dicita. (ex.: "Me > esas *certena ke vu ne venos." - "= Si, me venos." - "No!" - "Si!"). - F. > > Ol esas do apta vorto en multa = kazi. Kad ol intertempe esas oficaligita? Kad > existas altra posiblaji? = Ka ta vorto esas necesa? > > Amikale, > Steve > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1961 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26074 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2005 17:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2005 17:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.38) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2005 17:20:03 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:19:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:19:40 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <9135190.1129644520884.JavaMail.www@wwinf1102> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:19:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 17:19:41.0024 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A549E00:01C5D4D1] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [linguo] Tr: Re: [uli-ido] pago X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=gGOyU1Oo_6urY1mp1p430ZVioKySX3gamZWYl4ja1sE X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Ho, mesajo nekredebla! Sro Stuifbergen, malgre lua "tota" boikoto di YahooGroups, tamen sendis mesajo ye 18ma oktobro a la Yahoo-forumo, ULI-Ido !!! Semblas ke lua boikoto ne es tam tota, kam ni kredis. Quala hipokriteso! Quale Hans explikas ica duopla regulo? Kad existas motivo racionoza, o ka sro St. partoprenas certena Yahoo-forumi, e ne altri? Me vartas expliko del "ULI-prezidanto". Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: LOIC.LANDAIS@wanadoo.fr >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >CC: Hans Stuifbergen >Subject: [linguo] Tr: Re: [uli-ido] pago >Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:08:40 +0200 (CEST) > >Segun la deziro di Hans me sendas a linguolisto la diskutado pri Euro > > > > Message du 18/10/05 10:33 > > De : "Hans Stuifbergen" > > A : uli-ido@yahoogroups.com > > Copie à : > > Objet : Re: [uli-ido] pago > > > > Kara Alfred, > > > > Me ne konkordas kun vu pri ke "euro" es la radiko en Ido, to nulafoye > > oficale determinesis. Do, olua uzo ankore es libera. Tasmen, me propozas >ke > > ca diskuto sendesez a Linguolisto. > > > > Saluti amikala, > > > > Hans St. > > -- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alfred Neussner" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago > > > > > > > Kara amiko, > > > Ankorfoye: EURO esas entote la radiko, la radiko ne > > > esas EUR e la O ne esas sufixo di Ido indikanta > > > singularo, quan on povus remplasar per I ye pluralo. > > > Qua opinionas, ke lu devus dicar EURO plurale, ta > > > devas dicar EUROi. "metro" es altra kazo. To esas > > > nocioni quale "veturo, domo". La EURO existas kom > > > diversa formi: Bilieti di ex. "10 EURO" (e ne EUROS, > > > regardez vua pekuniuyo) e moneti di ex. "1 EUR0" o > > > "2 EURO" (ne EUROS, regardez vua moneti). > > > Se me donas a vu 2 EURO, lore to esas un peco di > > > 2 EURO, se me donas 2 EUROi, lore me donas du > > > moneti di 1 EURO. > > > Ica disputo ja eventis en Germania ante cirk. 130 > > > yari, kande la posto emisis postmarki ye 3,5,10 etp. > > > Pfennige (pluralo). Pro protesto da linguisti on nov-editis > > > la sama postmarki kun "Pfennig". La lora argumentado > > > esas anke mea expliko. Me savas, ke ye multa lingui on > > > uzas l`etaloni plurale (Lire, Pesos, Pesetas), ma to ne es > > > logika e me preferus, se on uzus Ido plu precize kam la nacionala >lingui. > > > Kordiala saluti A.Neussner > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:06 PM > > > Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago > > > > > > > > > > > > Kara Alfred, > > > > > > Vu esas justa protestar kontre "Euris" ma pri "Euri" kad ol esas vere > > > superflua ? > > > Tamen semblas a me ke : > > > - pri metro qua esas longesunajo, on dicas : 3 metri e ne 3 metro > > > - pri gramo qua esas pezunajo, on dicas 3 grami e ne 3 gramo. > > > - e.c. > > > Do pro quo pri Euro qua esas monetunajo, on ne povus dicar 3 Euri ? > > > > > > Saluti de Nantes > > > Loïc > > > > > >> Message du 17/10/05 18:38 > > >> De : "Alfred Neussner" > > >> A : "ULI" > > >> Copie à : > > >> Objet : [uli-ido] pago > > >> > > >> Kara samideani, > > >> Principe me konsentas, ke l`ULI pagas necesa agi > > >> propagala, ma me prizus, ke on, kande on publike pregas pro asento a > > >> pago, > > >> indikus la cirkuma sumo > > >> pri qua on devas decidar. > > >> Me protestas kontre "Euris"! To esas sensenca > > >> duopla pluralo, quankam pluralo esas tote superflua. > > >> La "o" di EURO ne esas sufixo indikanta singularo, > > >> ma parto integra di la radiko same kam ye "hero-o" > > >> "hero-" esas la ne-altrigebla radiko. La pluralo di > > >> "heroo" esas "heroi" e ne "heri, heris, herois". > > >> EURO esas propra nomo di etalono, qua ne bezonas > > >> specala pluralo. 1 EURO esas same klara kam > > >> 100 EURO. Nur kande on eventuale parolas precipue > > >> pri 1-EURO-moneti, lore esus sencoza dicar > > >> 10 EUROi ye la rispektiva kazo. > > >> L`uzo di EURI, EUROS, esas transpreno > > >> di nelogika linguo-uzo ek diversa nacionala lingui, > > >> quo ton ne plusensozigas. Ido esas plu preciza kam > > >> multa lingui, ni konservez lo. > > >> Saluti A.Neussner > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1962 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63018 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2005 20:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Oct 2005 20:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Oct 2005 20:07:27 -0000 Received: from gr.189.165.23.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.165.23] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp1.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1ESKDO-0007ze-5m; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:07:10 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:12:01 +0100 Message-ID: <2005101921121.678572@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <001201c5d3ba$98ffdcd0$6a9afe91@neussner> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [uli-ido] pago X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=eeY_iRCLGXtwUK2VNKllTWHT6G1A6r5YjVFEPrvzyuWMOkw Kara Alfred, Vua argumento esas interesiva. Tamen la punto ube me ne bone= komprenas ol esas ube vu skribas: =A0"Se me donas a vu 2 EURO, lore to esa= s un peco di 2 EURO, se me donas =A02 EUROi, lore me donas du moneti di 1 E= URO." Evidente hike la pluralo koncernas la nombro di la moneti, ne la nom= bro di la valoro. Se me donas a vu 2 moneti qui single havas valoro di 0,5= Euro, kun tota valoro di 1 Euro, ka takaze me donas 1 Euroi (nam esas du m= oneti)? Amikale, Robert. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1963 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62617 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2005 12:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Oct 2005 12:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Oct 2005 12:15:52 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.199.42]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 50498456 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:21:58 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:15:21 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510201415.21211.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: *si X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=fkAYgXYjAsDtw4ciRbCaqrDbA2GGw8MwB7jBYAZFxSwvErPD1oZo X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El Martes 18 Octubre 2005 19:35, Eduardo A. Rodi escribi=F3: > Segun quon m= e lektis ulaloke, ma me ja ne memoras ube, questioni > negala esas respondi= zenda same kam se li ne havus la vorti negala. > [...] Ta propozo semblas e= fektive maxim racionoza, nam ol evitas omna ambiguaji e ne postulas ula pl= usa vorto. (*si do ne esas bezonata) Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1964 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 62493 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2005 15:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2005 15:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp3alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.143) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 15:42:24 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.48.243.124) by vsmtp3alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 43593B650001B5FF for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:38:11 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5d71f$56ef2b80$7cf33052@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:43:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Blanka/o X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=Ws0uQe0gaf02qtFp2Qxipu9J4sGTO2BkmTjWNLn1EBFGQxc X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< qua formo es plu korekta, e pro quo, de ta du: <<< - "Il esas blanka" od <<< - "Il esas blanko"? <<< La kuntexto esas kompreneble homo qua indikas sua raso. <<< Semblas a me ke amba formi esas fakte interchanjebla <<< [E.A. Rodi] Nu, yes e no (nur se me bone komprenas la questiono). Segun me GRAMATIKE amba formi es korekta, ma SEMANTIKE esas nuanco inter la du. Mea-orele substantivo "blanko" es plu pezoza, plu *pregnanta (1), politike plu engajita kam adjektivo "blanka". En kuntexto rasala, adjektivo substantivigita "blanko" korespondas quaze a kategorio filozofiala. "Blanko" relatas homala ENTO, di +quu la blankeso (biologie, psikologie, socie, politike) es l'esenco ipsa. Vice, sempre en kuntexto rasala, adjektivo "blanka" relatas ul homala QUALESO, nome la blankeso, kom atributo plu o min importanta (biologie, psikologie, socie, politike), ma ne esencala. La supera distingo es konforma a l'etimologio di "substantivo" e "adjektivo": - "substantivo" venas de Latina "substantia" (substanco) - "adjektivo" venas de Latina "adiectum" (adjuntita). Se lo supera es justa, la prefera uzo di "blanka" o "blanko" dependas mea-sente del kuntexto: - se la rasala stando indikesas quiete, sen troa emfazo, lore "il es blanka" semblas a me plu apta; - se la rasala stando remarkesas rankoroze, denunceme, lore "il es blanko" semblas a me preferebla. Yen ula exempli (la kuntexto povas esar imaginata): - il es blanko e il desprizegas omna nigri - jurio de blanki absolvis il, evidente pro ke il esis blanko - *quoniam il es blanka vice nigra, omno es plu facila por il - la viri qui atakis me esis nigra, kontre ke la viri arestita es blanka - qua difero esas, se unu es nigra e l'altru es blanka? ---------- Nedicinde, la mei es nur senpretenda, forsan tro abstrakta konsideri da profana oreliero. ---------- (1) Pregnant*: charjita per senci [propozo da Roze] A pregnant, weighty F pr�gnant G pr�gnant H prenado [mankas diakritiko] I pregnante R chryevatiy, yomkiy L praegnans ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1965 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41748 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2005 17:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2005 17:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.global.net.uk) (80.189.94.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 17:10:17 -0000 Received: from gr.189.167.54.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.167.54] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1ETMsf-000FgX-IZ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:10:06 +0100 To: , Linguolisto X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:11:43 +0100 Message-ID: <20051021231143.703462@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: <20051021184552.35125.qmail@web26601.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [IdoCatalaOccitan] Hungara o Hungariana X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=6-6x3c47z24eJjEqNFb2789lOEHaq9eBPUgMWq_D5m23178 Kara Partaka, En "Ido-English Dictionary" da Dyer, en Lexiko Ido-Madyara d= a Bakonyi, e.c. on trovas "Hungaria" e "Hungariano". Simile "Kastilia" e "K= astiliano", "Katalunia" e "Kataluniano". Voluntez vidar "Kompleta Gramatik= o Detaloza" ye pagino 26. Nur en poka kazi on darfas (ma ne mustas) uzar ku= rta formi. Louis de Beaufront citas yena vorti: Anglo/Angla, Franco/Franca,= Germano/Germana, Ruso/Rusa, Suedo/Sueda, Dano/Dana, Polono/Polona, Greko/G= reka, Arabo/Araba, Hispano/Hispana, Skoto/Skota, Lapono/Lapona, Suiso/Suisa= . Anglo signifikas Angliano (vorto quan on darfas uzar se on volas), e.c. = En poka altra kazi, existas vorti qui semblas esar kurta formi ma qui havas= senci diferanta. Exemple, "Britano" tote ne esas sama kam "Britaniano". O= n ne darfas skribar Bosno (vice Bosniano), Frigo (vice Frigiano), Gruzo (vi= ce Gruziano), Indo (vice Indiano), Mexiko (vice Mexikiano), Rumano (vice Ru= maniano), e.c. Ni ne havas tote bona o tote klara sistemo. Ne esas praktik= e posibla obtenar logikala sistemo por nomi di landi e landani. Tamen, nia= sistemo bezonas plusa laboro e pensado. Dume, me rekomendas uzar la vorti= en nia lexiki. Robert. ____________ Partaka skribis: Estimat Adri=E1n:= Tu sbribis: --------------------------------- Saluto Partaka!! Yes, yes,= vua averto fakte esas la quaresma averto pri co. Me eroris skribante la Hu= ngara texto pro ke me uzis la Rumana texto por krear la nova pagino..., me = esperas korektar tam balde kam posibla, forsan hodie. Altralatere, me quest= ionas vu, quale on dicas: Hungara o Hungariana?. Saluti!! Adri=E1n Pastrana= -------------------------------- Me ne savas, kad existas ula difero inte= r formi quala "Hungara" e "Hungariana"... Mea-judike, amba vorti es korekta= , same kam altra pari, nome Kataluna/Kataluniana, Lituana/Lituaniana, Ruman= a/Rumaniana, Andaluza/Andaluziana, edc... Tamen, ca-kaze, por refero a lin= guo, me ya preferas la formo kurtigita, "la Hungara", olqua, segun semblo, = prizentas nula problemo relate olua korekteso. Fakte, me uzas preske sempre= (ma ne sempre) tala formi kurtigita, se me konjektas, ke existas nula prob= lemo agar tale. Kontree, me ne audacus 'parlar' pri "la Valenca", ma pri "l= a Valenciana". Anke ne, por exemplo, pri la kulturo "Kolumba" o "Boliva", m= a "Kolumbiana" o "Boliviana", edc... Do, on ya darfas uzar "la Hungara", s= ame kam "la Hispana, la Franca, l'Angla, la Germana", edc... Me ne savas, k= a "la Hungariana" nuancas diferante. Saluto amikal a Tenerife! P A R T A= K A * * * * * * * * Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http:/= /es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ___________________________= ___________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m=E1s segu= ridad http://correo.yahoo.es Enlaces a Yahoo! Grupos =A0 =A0 IdoCatala= Occitan-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =A0 =A0 http://es.docs.yahoo.com/info/= utos.html From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1966 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98414 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2005 21:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2005 21:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 21:47:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n24.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2005 21:46:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2005 21:46:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:46:55 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c5d71f$56ef2b80$7cf33052@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Blanka/o X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=ubSDBXnNYdkScjoExSi8Iym441x8C2KM19quBdIjC0KNwQg X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Carlo, Multa danko! Vua expliko esas ya tre originala, ed interesanta= , e me tendencas konkordar kun vu. Me ofte havas la dubito pri qua formo = uzar en kuntexti simila, ne nur pri la rasi, ma anke exemple pri religio, = ideologio, edc.: Esar katoliko/a, komunisto/a... Me pensas nun ka la sama = distingo esas facebla pri irga komplemento nominala di ESAR: "Me esas doci= sto" - "Me esas docista", "Me esas oldo" - "Me esas olda", edc., ka? Plus= e, vu docis ulo a me pri la Hispana. Me ne savis pri la signifiko di "pre= =F1ado" quan vu indikas. Me nur konocis la vorto (en la formo feminala) pe= r olua maxim uzata signifiko: "gravida, havonta yuno (che bestii, ne che h= omi)": "vaca pre=F1ada": "bovino gravida". Me sendas a vu amikala saluti. = Eduardo A. RODI. > <<< qua formo es plu korekta, e pro quo, de ta du: > <= << - "Il esas blanka" od > <<< - "Il esas blanko"? > <<< La kuntexto esas k= ompreneble homo qua indikas sua raso. > <<< Semblas a me ke amba formi esas= fakte interchanjebla > <<< [E.A. Rodi] > > > Nu, yes e no (nur se me bon= e komprenas la questiono). > > Segun me GRAMATIKE amba formi es korekta, m= a SEMANTIKE esas nuanco inter la > du. > > Mea-orele substantivo "blanko"= es plu pezoza, plu *pregnanta (1), politike > plu engajita kam adjektivo= "blanka". > > En kuntexto rasala, adjektivo substantivigita "blanko" kore= spondas quaze a > kategorio filozofiala. "Blanko" relatas homala ENTO, di = +quu la blankeso > (biologie, psikologie, socie, politike) es l'esenco ips= a. > > Vice, sempre en kuntexto rasala, adjektivo "blanka" relatas ul hom= ala > QUALESO, nome la blankeso, kom atributo plu o min importanta (biolog= ie, > psikologie, socie, politike), ma ne esencala. > > La supera distingo= es konforma a l'etimologio di "substantivo" e > "adjektivo": > - "substant= ivo" venas de Latina "substantia" (substanco) > - "adjektivo" venas de Lati= na "adiectum" (adjuntita). > > Se lo supera es justa, la prefera uzo di "b= lanka" o "blanko" dependas > mea-sente del kuntexto: > - se la rasala stan= do indikesas quiete, sen troa emfazo, lore "il es blanka" > semblas a me p= lu apta; > - se la rasala stando remarkesas rankoroze, denunceme, lore "il = es blanko" > semblas a me preferebla. > > Yen ula exempli (la kuntexto po= vas esar imaginata): > - il es blanko e il desprizegas omna nigri > - jurio= de blanki absolvis il, evidente pro ke il esis blanko > - *quoniam il es b= lanka vice nigra, omno es plu facila por il > - la viri qui atakis me esis = nigra, kontre ke la viri arestita es blanka > - qua difero esas, se unu es= nigra e l'altru es blanka? > > ---------- > > Nedicinde, la mei es nur s= enpretenda, forsan tro abstrakta konsideri da > profana oreliero. > > ---= ------- > > (1) Pregnant*: charjita per senci [propozo da Roze] > A pregna= nt, weighty > F pr=E9gnant > G pr=E4gnant > H prenado [mankas diakritiko] >= I pregnante > R chryevatiy, yomkiy > L praegnans > > ---------- > > Carl= o Nardini > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1967 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52325 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 08:52:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2005 08:52:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 08:52:04 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.199.231]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 50822950 for ; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:58:39 +0200 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:51:54 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200510231051.54675.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: kelka questioni pri vorti X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=i-zDSoc-H5DyiQ9Q-5yWygE4W4ppuNxdWTrmMIYVJrXExYXDjfNq X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch **Komento** Euro, Euri: Me ne vere sucias ka ni dicas "4 Euro" o "4 Euri". To esas nura konvenciono. Tam longe kam ni ne dicas "Euroo, Euroi" o simila absurdaji me ne objecionas. Forsan sempre dicar "Euro" esas plu facila. Altre ni devas pripensar quon ni dicas exemple pri 1,60 EUR. Ka to esas pluralo pro ke la sumo esas plu granda kam 1, o singularo, nam to esas ya nur UN Euro plus 60 centimi? **Questioni** Arjentinia: Pro quo ne kun "g" kam en preske omna lingui? Certe la pronunco esus diferanta, ma la pronunco di nia "Arjentinia" anke ne tote konkordas kun ta en Hispana od Angla. Pro quo do ni skribas arJentinia? (N.B. Me ne volas chanjar irgo, nur saveskar pro quo ni elektis ta posibleso vice altra - qua semblas a me plu logikoza) Havayi: Pro quo ni ne lasas propra nomi nechanjita? Hawai esus ya bona, ka ne? E certe ol esus plu rikonocebla kam "Havayi" qua esas Esperantatra. Quale ni dicas en Ido? video camera hi-fi system CD-player speaker, haut-parleur, Lautsprecher mouse (computer) [elektronikala-muso => e-muso? Kompreneble on povas anke simple dicar "muso" kande la kun-texto esas sat klara.] Kad "interreto" ne esas tote absurda? Quo esas interreto? Nula reto! Same kam ne existas "internaciono" ne povas existar interreto, ka? Me do preferas Internet (videz mesajo #1345) od adoptar radiko *internet.o (anke esus utila *intranet.o). Nun suficas por hodie... :-) Til balde, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1968 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54160 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 10:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2005 10:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 10:24:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2005 10:24:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2005 10:24:39 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:24:39 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: La sufixo -an X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=wftPmc6u4Kk8sAuG3P9cvmJ_BUNF91MkLkpxvKnnEgiBKWmQ1hg X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara samideani, Me komprenas la difero inter "Hungariana" e "Hungara" tale= : Pro ke la sufixo -an- indikas "membro di (ula) lando, urbo, edc.", "Hung= ariana" signifikas ula adjektivo, qua konektas kun populano (=3D Hungariano= ) di lando di Hungaria. Altralatere "Hungara" signifikas ula adjektivo, qu= a ne havas direta konekto kun la lando di Hungaria. Tale on povas parolar p= ri "Hungara linguo" sen ula konekto kun la stato di Hungaria. Exemple, on p= arolas en Hungara en Hungaria, Slovakia, Rumania edc., ma Hungariana lingui= esas Hungara, Germana, Cigana edc. Anke en Usa on parolas en Hungara, ma n= e en Hungariana, pro ke tala expreso esus tro ne-exakta. Me pensas, ke la = KGD-ala "Angla, Franca, Germana, Rusa, Sueda, Dana, Polona, Greka, Araba, H= ispana, Skota, Lapona, Suisa" esas nur exempli pri la posibla uzo, ma ne fi= nita listo pri omna posibla kazi. Exter la listo on povas uzar sua logiko e= krear nova vorti segun la modelo. Antee me skribis en ca Yahoo-listo pri = la vorti Finlandana e Fina. Ni havas hike du oficala lingui Finlandana: la = Fina e la Sueda. (Me indikas la mesaji sendita en Januaro =96 voluntez uzar= la buxeto di "Search" supre kun la vorto "Finlandana".) Recente me labora= s che la Wikivortaro (regretinde: sole). Me uzas ibe la vorti "Albana" (vic= e "Albaniana"), "Armena" (vice "Armeniana"), "Bulgara" (vice "Bulgariana"),= "Estona" (vice "Estoniana"), "Fina" (vice "Finlandana"), "Rumana" (vice "R= umaniana"), edc. En la listo la vorto "linguo" esus vana. Esus tre desbela= e ne-logika, se en la frontispicala listo dil lingui un parto kontenus la = sufixi -an-a ed un parto esus kurte kun la sufixo di adjektivo -a. Me uzis = logiko e kreis nova vorti por Ido segun la granda konsilo, ke omna expresur= i esas posibla se li esas komprenebla. Amikale, Arto Moisio, Finlando = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1969 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 21202 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 13:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2005 13:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp2alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.142) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 13:57:43 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.54.251.186) by vsmtp2alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 4359D8F400028E50 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:57:35 +0200 Message-ID: <000501c5d7da$75c7d500$bafb3652@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:02:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Yes, no, si X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=hfiVEPYM_KQTwD10eBML2fyz14NiIJk4XUDykgJWktzJDps X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus <<< Hodie me hazarde trovis la vorto *si en la dicionario da Pesch e lu <<< definas ol tale: "Adverbo per qua onu afirmas la kontreajo di lo jus <<< dicita. <<< Kad ol intertempe esas oficaligita? Ka ta vorto esas necesa? [Steve] <<< Segun quon me lektis ulaloke...questioni negala esas respondizenda <<< same kam se li ne havus la vorti negala... <<< "Me savas ya ke tu ne havas intereso partoprenar" <<< -Yes (me havas intereso partoprenar). <<< -No (me ne havas intereso partoprenar). [Eduardo A. Rodi] Probable E.A.R. es justa. Tamen ula remarki faktala semblas a me oportuna. a] Propozo di 'si' aparis en Progreso III, 1910, 333. " Peus opinionas...on povus uzar 'si' por tradukar D. 'doch', F. 'si'. t.e. 'yes' por negativa questiono. Exemplo: "Kad vu ne audis la signalo?". Respondo 'yes' esas ambigua: kad "Yes, me audis", o "Yes, me ne audis"?. Per 'si' l'ambigueso malaparus. 'Si' = me audis; 'no' = me ne audis. " b] Decido pri 'si' raportesis en Progreso VI, 1913, 214. Decidi dil Akademio. 1114. On repulsas 'si' kom afirmilo respondanta a negala questiono. c] 'Si' asteriskizita emersis en la Dicionario da Persiko, 1964. d] 'Si' sen asterisko enduktesis en la Dicionario Ido-Svensk da Rylander, 1985. e] Pri vorto asteriskizita en Persiko (*muvmento) me sendis mi-joke mesajo a Linguolisto, UZUKAPTO, 370, 6 Junio 2000. Me skribis: "Quale vi savas, uzukapto (anke nomata "preskrito aquiriva"), derivita de la Romana yuro (L usucapere = prenar per uzo), signifikas aquiro di ula yuro (proprieto o altro), per uzo o posedo ne-interruptita dum certena sat longa tempo (20 yari, segun la lego Italiana). Nu, me asertas ke asteriskizita 'muvmento', pos okupir, sen objecioni, dum adminime 35 yari, propra plaso (tri linei en la pagino 388) en la publika Dicionario da Persiko (1964), u z u k a p t i s la yuro sen-asterisk-ig-es-ar. Se me es justa, to signifikas ke 'muvmento' nun havas (preske) la sama rango (qualifiko) kam la cetera senasteriska vorti..." "Mutatis mutandi" (1), ta mesajo povas aktualigesar, e aplikesar anke a 'si'... ---------- (1) "Mutatis mutandi" (chanjite lo chanjenda): expresuro Latina tote internaciona. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1970 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4105 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 18:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2005 18:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 18:36:10 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2005 18:35:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2005 18:35:53 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:35:52 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Ye X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=eNoEbmNhj5e12n62aCSdWC4TWPNzT9zlllyE7yyJH8MhZU8 X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Quon vi opinionas pri la uzado di la prepoziciono "ye" en = la yena frazo? Me manjis ye du hori ante nun. Mem se lo esas absurdajo, = esas posibla ke la manko di "ye" permisus interpretar ke "du hori ante nun= " esas la objekto direta di "manjar", vice tempo-indiko. Komprenende, onu = ne "manjas hori", ma forsan existas altra verbi qui ya genitus frazi ambig= ua per la omiso di "ye". Do, ka "ye" es posibla, preferinda, o ya nekonsil= inda en tala kuntexti? Me predankas vi amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1971 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20620 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 18:39:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2005 18:39:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 18:39:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2005 18:39:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Oct 2005 18:39:36 -0000 Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:39:34 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: La sufixo -an X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=jBMC-bFui1OrE-jgscgpkTKP8dYpmzb2cngZEJ0-dmrla5E X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Arto, Me lektis ke la expliko di "Hungara" esas konsiderar "Hungaria"= kom "Hungar.i.a", to esas la loko di la "Hungari". Se lo es justa, la sa= ma intepreto esas admisebla por omna nomi lokala finanta per "- i.a", ka? = Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. > Kara samideani, > > Me komprenas la difero i= nter "Hungariana" e "Hungara" tale: > > Pro ke la sufixo -an- indikas "mem= bro di (ula) lando, urbo, edc.", > "Hungariana" signifikas ula adjektivo, q= ua konektas kun populano (=3D > Hungariano) di lando di Hungaria. > > Altr= alatere "Hungara" signifikas ula adjektivo, qua ne havas direta > konekto k= un la lando di Hungaria. Tale on povas parolar pri "Hungara > linguo" sen = ula konekto kun la stato di Hungaria. Exemple, on parolas > en Hungara en = Hungaria, Slovakia, Rumania edc., ma Hungariana lingui > esas Hungara, Ger= mana, Cigana edc. Anke en Usa on parolas en Hungara, > ma ne en Hungariana= , pro ke tala expreso esus tro ne-exakta. > > Me pensas, ke la KGD-ala "An= gla, Franca, Germana, Rusa, Sueda, Dana, > Polona, Greka, Araba, Hispana, = Skota, Lapona, Suisa" esas nur exempli > pri la posibla uzo, ma ne finita = listo pri omna posibla kazi. Exter la > listo on povas uzar sua logiko e k= rear nova vorti segun la modelo. > > Antee me skribis en ca Yahoo-listo pr= i la vorti Finlandana e Fina. Ni > havas hike du oficala lingui Finlandana= : la Fina e la Sueda. (Me > indikas la mesaji sendita en Januaro =96 volunt= ez uzar la buxeto di > "Search" supre kun la vorto "Finlandana".) > > Rece= nte me laboras che la Wikivortaro (regretinde: sole). Me uzas ibe > la vor= ti "Albana" (vice "Albaniana"), "Armena" (vice "Armeniana"), > "Bulgara" (v= ice "Bulgariana"), "Estona" (vice "Estoniana"), "Fina" > (vice "Finlandana"= ), "Rumana" (vice "Rumaniana"), edc. En la listo la > vorto "linguo" esus = vana. > > Esus tre desbela e ne-logika, se en la frontispicala listo dil = lingui > un parto kontenus la sufixi -an-a ed un parto esus kurte kun la s= ufixo > di adjektivo -a. Me uzis logiko e kreis nova vorti por Ido segun la= > granda konsilo, ke omna expresuri esas posibla se li esas komprenebla. = > > Amikale, > Arto Moisio, Finlando > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1972 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41955 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 09:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 09:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 09:28:58 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.199.231]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 50915967 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:32:23 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:25:36 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510241125.36474.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: La sufixo -an X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=S4xwsstHnITaDaQqKCjxECjtLmf_oDXkIN5KNkVcJ_eJH1CakwlT X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Saluto amiki, Por me la afero semblas sat klara segun la KGD. Se la nomo dil lando ne finas per "-ia", lore on sempre uzas "-ano" por la habitanti. Exemplo: De "Finlando" (lando) on evidente ne povas derivar "Finlando" (habitanto), nam lore existus ya nula difero inter ta du vorti. Do evidente on devas skribar "Finland-an-o" e konseque la linguo esas la "Finlandana". Se la nomo dil lando finas per "-ia" on darfas abreviar, ma nur en la kazi mencionita en KGD (Angliano => Anglo; Franciano => Franco; edc.). Remarkez ke en ta listo ne esas skribita "edc" o "...". Ol do esas *kompleta* listo e per noto adjuntesas: "Nur la formo per -ano esas generala e generaligebla; la nomi di populi quale Anglo, Ruso esas nur abreviuri di la reguloza Angliano, ec. e devas konsideresar kom aparta kazi". Do habitanti di Italia e Luxemburgia esas Italiano e Luxemburgiano (ne Italo e Luxemburgo). Konseque la lingui esas Italiana (ne Itala) e Luxemburgiana (ne Luxemburga). Nia sistemo esas tote reguloza (mem se ol permisas en kelka kazi duesma formo plu naturala, ma min reguloza). Ni do gardez ol. --------------- Kara Arto, vu skribis: "Anke en Usa on parolas en Hungara, ma ne en Hungariana, pro ke tala expreso esus tro ne-exakta." Per quo ta du lingui diferas? Se Usano parolas Hungariana lu parolas ya la sama linguo kam Hungariano qua parolas ol, ka ne? Pluse vu skribis "Fina" linguo. Ka vu pensas ke to esas justa? Quale me jus argumentis "Finlandana" esas segun me (e segun mea kompreno dil KGD) la sola justa formo. Ma mem se vu aplikas la abreviuro (se vu do omisas -an-) vu trovas ya "Finlanda linguo" (vice "Finlandana linguo") ma nule "Fina". [Fina linguo esus linguo qua esas fino. Pro ke linguo ne vere povas "esar fino" ma nur "relatar fino", ol do prefere esas "finala linguo".] Kordiale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1973 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23060 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 10:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 10:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 10:15:43 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.199.231]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 50920310 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:18:24 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:11:37 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510241211.37762.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Ye X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=CjsWK1GVcwNxe3XjYZjwRv3G0WGrQQ0Zxe8jYTrSUEhiJTNhdTRH X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara Eduardo, > Quon vi opinionas pri la uzado di la prepoziciono "ye" en la yena > frazo? Evidente lo sequanta esas nur mea personala opiniono. Me ne prizas uzar "ye" en ta frazo, pro la sequanta kauzi: 1. "Ye" esas tote artificala e do nule komprenebla por la profani. 2. "Ye" havas nebuloza signifiko (quan on devas ofte divinar) 3. Olua uzo en ta exemplo ne korespondas al gramatikala "tradiciono" di nia linguo. (4. L'altra prepoziono (t.e. "avan") en ta exemplo kontributas al ne-miskomprenebleso di ta frazo) Me uzas "ye" nur kande ol vere esas bezonata (t.s. kande altre on forsan miskomprenas ulo). En vua exemplo anke vu ya dicis ke miskompreno ne povas eventar, pro ke hori ne esas manjebla. (Forsan ca mesajo nun semblas poke tro radikala, nam me nur mencionis lo mala di la prepoziono "ye". Me tamen volas dicar ke "ye" esas importanta en kelka kazi ube on bezonas prepoziciono, ma ube nula altra esas apta.] Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1974 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 692 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 13:18:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 13:18:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 13:18:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2005 13:18:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2005 13:18:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:18:22 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510241125.36474.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: [linguo] Re: La sufixo -an X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=4Agmxv06zU2dvuQ7JUND3Tk0rsEqTaJRCg33B2aFDHHRVKE X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Steve, kara samideani, Me opinionas ke la decido ke nur kelka kazi ac= eptez la redukto de - iano ad -o esas komplikiva por nia linguo. Se la lis= to esas limitizita nur a la kazi mencionita en la KGD, lo postulus memorar= la dicita listo. To esas komparebla a determinar precise en qua adjektivi= on darfas omisar la -a finala ed en qua adjektivi on ne darfas. En kazi d= i eliziono (adjektivi, esas, ilu, eli, oli, ankore, edc.), ol esas sempre = admisata segun la kriterio fonetikala dil uzanto, ma existas nula regulo d= eterminanta qua kazi esas aceptebla e qua kazi ne esas. Altra kriterio me= ncionita por determinar qua formo es uzenda konsistas ek konsiderar la for= mi en la lingui DEFIRS. Ma segun ta formo, exemple, "Arjentino" devus esar= admisata, pro ke la formo kurta esas uzata en adminime FIS, ed alternativ= e anke en la Angla. E quo facar pri Hungariana? Ka la formo sequenda esas = la longa A: Hungarian, o la kurta H: H=FAngaro? Pluse, ta kriterio konsid= erar la formi en la lingui DEFIRS postulas ke Idisti fakte savez la dicita= lingui. Ya multi de ni savas adminime un de ta lingui, ma quanti savas li= omna? E pluse, se on postulas tala savo, quanta homi sur la tero afordas = esar Idisti? Kad Ido ne propozesas kom linguo alternativa a l'Angla? Ka ne= esas absurdajo ke por divenar Idisto, onu devez savar la Angla, ultre kin= plusa lingui? Qua "bezonas" savar Ido, se lu ja savas la sis lingui DEFI= RS, e se omna Idisti anke savas ol? (Kompreneble, me koncias ke la "bezono= " savar Ido relatas tote altro, e ke savar Ido esas plusajo sempre valoroz= a mem al savo di omna lingui DEFIRS, mem se sempre existus altra linguo ko= muna por komuniko). Me konkordas ke la KGD donas listo kompleta de kazi en= qui -iano darfas reduktesar ad -o. Ma me anke kredas ke lo esas eroro dil= KGD. E se ol esas eroro, ni ne bezonas sklavesar a ta eroro. Irgakaze, se= amba formi esus posibla por omna kazi, nulo interdiktas ke singlu agez t= ote sengunvole carelate, e ke ti qui deziras lo, durez uzar Franco e Hunga= riano, e nulatempe Franciano e Hungaro. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1975 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20093 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 13:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 13:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 13:32:51 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2005 13:31:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2005 13:31:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:31:35 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510241211.37762.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ye X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=wbivJR-MBdC5K7n18R_JCEF8du21HkSS1fbPSZd0Q_Nt5GU X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Steve, Pos ke me sendis la mesajo quan vu respondizas, me pensis pri = exempli en qui vera ambigueso povas eventar se on ne uzas "ye" od altra p= repoziciono por indiki tempala: -Me vartis lundio (Me anxioze volis ke lun= dio arivez, me deziris ke esez lundio). -Me vartis ye lundio (=3D Ye lund= io, me vartis). (Kande esis lundio, me vartis ulo ne indikata hike). -Me= obliviis du dii ante nun: Ante nun (=3Den la pasinto) me enlistigis nur k= in del sep semanodii, me obliviis la du cetera dii en mea listo. -Me obli= viis ye du dii ante nun: Me perdis mea memoro, ye quaradek e ok hori ante = nun. -Me recevos la yaro venonta: Me festos ye la 31esma di decembro, pro= la adveno di la yaro 2006. -Me recevos ye la yaro venonta: Me esos hosto= di invitati dum la yaro venonta. Kompreneble, ulo en la kuntexto mustas= indikar quo esas la objekto tacita dil verbi en la duesma kazo di singla = paro. Ma semblas a me ke tala frazi esas ya posibla. Amikale, Eduardo A.= RODI. > > Kara Eduardo, > > > Quon vi opinionas pri la uzado di la prepo= ziciono "ye" en la yena > > frazo? > > Evidente lo sequanta esas nur mea p= ersonala opiniono. Me ne prizas uzar "ye" > en ta frazo, pro la sequanta = kauzi: > 1. "Ye" esas tote artificala e do nule komprenebla por la profani.= > 2. "Ye" havas nebuloza signifiko (quan on devas ofte divinar) > 3. Olua = uzo en ta exemplo ne korespondas al gramatikala "tradiciono" di nia > lin= guo. > (4. L'altra prepoziono (t.e. "avan") en ta exemplo kontributas al >= ne-miskomprenebleso di ta frazo) > > Me uzas "ye" nur kande ol vere esas = bezonata (t.s. kande altre on forsan > miskomprenas ulo). En vua exemplo = anke vu ya dicis ke miskompreno ne povas > eventar, pro ke hori ne esas m= anjebla. > > (Forsan ca mesajo nun semblas poke tro radikala, nam me nur = mencionis lo mala > di la prepoziono "ye". Me tamen volas dicar ke "ye" es= as importanta en kelka > kazi ube on bezonas prepoziciono, ma ube nula al= tra esas apta.] > > Amikale, > Steve > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1976 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76794 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 15:36:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 15:36:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.41) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 15:36:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:35:58 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:35:58 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200510241211.37762.SPW@vo.lu> To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:35:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2005 15:35:58.0907 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1B9A8B0:01C5D8B0] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: Re: [linguo] Ye X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=IUQtHuT2VUyiz3l0MB9eeZipJIZRApLuldju9hTS2Dw X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Steve Certena kreola lingui (exemple Papiamentu) havas nedefinita (lokala) prepoziciono 'na'. Se me esus inventanta Ido hodie, me selektus ica formo. Ma 'ye' es sufice bona. 'Ye' havas nebuloza senco: yes, to es precize la skopo di ca prepoziciono! Ol es nedefinita prepoziciono, uzenda kande nula definita prep-o fitas. Me konkordas, tamen, ke on povas tro-uzar 'ye'. Evidente kande preciza prep-o fitas, ni uzez la preciza prep-o. Prepozicionala saluti. Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: Steve Walesch >Reply-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [linguo] Ye >Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:11:37 +0200 > >Kara Eduardo, > > > Quon vi opinionas pri la uzado di la prepoziciono "ye" en la yena > > frazo? > >Evidente lo sequanta esas nur mea personala opiniono. Me ne prizas uzar >"ye" >en ta frazo, pro la sequanta kauzi: >1. "Ye" esas tote artificala e do nule komprenebla por la profani. >2. "Ye" havas nebuloza signifiko (quan on devas ofte divinar) >3. Olua uzo en ta exemplo ne korespondas al gramatikala "tradiciono" di nia >linguo. >(4. L'altra prepoziono (t.e. "avan") en ta exemplo kontributas al >ne-miskomprenebleso di ta frazo) > >Me uzas "ye" nur kande ol vere esas bezonata (t.s. kande altre on forsan >miskomprenas ulo). En vua exemplo anke vu ya dicis ke miskompreno ne povas >eventar, pro ke hori ne esas manjebla. > >(Forsan ca mesajo nun semblas poke tro radikala, nam me nur mencionis lo >mala >di la prepoziono "ye". Me tamen volas dicar ke "ye" esas importanta en >kelka >kazi ube on bezonas prepoziciono, ma ube nula altra esas apta.] > >Amikale, >Steve > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1977 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8292 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 20:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 20:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 20:32:46 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.237.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.237] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EU8zt-000Aq1-7G for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:32:46 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:34:51 +0100 Message-ID: <20051024213451.411192@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Re: La sufixo -an X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=vKjW4fSsmpQzy2iKsmGXJfr-GXSGvSQR1B9V4HbihcFwa1Q Kara Eduardo ed Arto, Tala sistemo, pri qua skribas Eduardo, mem se teorie= logikala, ne esas posibla omnakaze por nomi di landi e populi. Irgakaze, o= l ne esas la sistemo di Ido. Exemple, Britania ne esas la loko dil Britani = (populo olima qua parolis Britana linguo), Mexikia ne esas la loko di "Mexi= ki", ed Australia ne esas la loko di "Australi". Se on inventas nova radik= o on devas uzar ol kun asterisko (til, forsan, acepto oficala). Altrakaze k= omencanti e mem progresanti ne savas certe qua vorti esas oficala e qua vor= ti esas personala inventaji quin uli forsan volas supozigar esar oficale ac= eptebla. Kordiale, Robert. ________ Eduardo A. Rodi skribis: =A0Kara Ar= to, =A0Me lektis ke la expliko di "Hungara" esas konsiderar "Hungaria" kom= =A0"Hungar.i.a", to esas la loko di la "Hungari". Se lo es justa, la =A0sa= ma intepreto esas admisebla por omna nomi lokala finanta per "- =A0i.a", ka= ? =A0Amikale, =A0Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1978 Return-Path: X-Sender: trober@waitrose.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35949 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 20:33:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 20:33:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp3.global.net.uk) (80.189.92.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 20:33:11 -0000 Received: from gr.189.160.237.dial.global.net.uk ([80.189.160.237] helo=SonyFX805) by smtp3.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EU8zv-000Aq1-5l for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:32:47 +0100 To: X-Mailer: PocoMail 3.2 (2000) - Licensed Version Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:36:22 +0100 Message-ID: <20051024213622.533685@SonyFX805> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Authenticated-Sender: X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Robert Subject: Re: [linguo] Ye X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=210422203; y=9EIMyPyNC-zb9zipJV6X6ouSL7K4fAWRnn20dX9KNxdoPQE Kara Eduardo, Persone me esas kontenta pri uzo di "ye" tale, precipue en k= azo di posibla ambigueso, ma generale ol ne esas necesa. Kordiale, Robert= . _____________ Eduardo A. Rodi skribis: Kara samideani, Quon vi opinion= as pri la uzado di la prepoziciono "ye" en la yena frazo? Me manjis ye du = hori ante nun. Mem se lo esas absurdajo, esas posibla ke la manko di "ye" = permisus interpretar ke "du hori ante nun" esas la objekto direta di "manja= r", vice tempo-indiko. Komprenende, onu ne "manjas hori", ma forsan existas= altra verbi qui ya genitus frazi ambigua per la omiso di "ye". Do, ka "ye= " es posibla, preferinda, o ya nekonsilinda en tala kuntexti? Me predankas= vi amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1979 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80440 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2005 20:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Oct 2005 20:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.32) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 2005 20:54:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n15.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2005 20:54:44 -0000 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:54:44 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510241125.36474.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Importanta Wikii (esis: La sufixo -an) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=4Jd1ynneRHTEcVyhEeSb4h6XGFq7A11v5QWnNezPuvIKndvv5C4 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio > Pluse vu skribis "Fina" linguo. Ka vu pensas ke to esas justa? Quale me j= us argumentis "Finlandana" esas segun me (e segun mea kompreno dil KGD) la = sola justa formo. Ma mem se vu aplikas la abreviuro (se vu do omisas -an-) = vu trovas ya "Finlanda linguo" (vice "Finlandana linguo") ma nule "Fina". >= Kordiale, > Steve Kara Steve ed altra amiki Me selektis kurta citati ek = anciena mesaji koncernante "Fina" / "Finlandana": 1229 - Robert B. Carnagh= an: "Me komprenas anke ke esus utila adoptar vorto "Fina" (o "Finna") por d= istingar ta linguo Finlandana qua ne esas la sola linguo Finlandana ma qua = esas ofte tale nomata." 1491 - mea 1493 - Lo=EFc Landais: "En Franca ni hav= as la vorto "finnois". Ka la vorto *Finia povus solvar la problemo di Arto = ?" 1498 =96 Robert: Semblas ke esas la sequanta posibla equivalanti: Ido: *= Fina A: Finnish F: finnois G: finnisch H: finland=E9s, fin=E9s [Tamen, = ka ta du vorti esas sinonimi, quale mea vortaro indikas?] I: finnico R: f= inskiy 1500 =96 Eduardo A. Rodi: (Komento por Robert pri H: finland=E9s, fi= n=E9s) "Yes. Amba vorti es sinonimi perfekte interchanjebla, tam por la adj= ektivo (e substantivo) nacionala kam por la linguo. Lo sama valoras por "da= n=E9s" e "dinamarqu=E9s", por l'Angla "Danish". Quankam, la vorti "finland= =E9s" e "dan=E9s" semblas esar multe plu freque uzata por omna signifiki ka= m sua sinonimi. 1504 - Hans St.: "Lektinte vua mesajo ed expliko, me devas = konfesar ke me nulafoye pensis pri to talamaniere. Efektive, se vu explikas= omno talamaniere, vu es justa. Anke Nederlandane on dicas "Fin" e "Finnen"= (risp. singulare e plurale) qui lojas en "Finland". L' adjektivo es "Fins"= (de Finse fabrikant Nokia). - - Do, fakte, me kredas ke es nula objeciono = adoptar "Fino" e "Finia" kom Ido-vorti por vua lando e landani." 1521 - Par= taka: "Pardonez me, pro ke me ne es tante konvinkita pri l' konvenanteso ac= eptar expresuro quala "la Fina" vice "la Finlandana"... 1522 - mea. 1524 - = Robert: "Kara Partaka, Pri vua objeciono kontre "Fina", me komprenas ol. Vu= ofras "Finiana" se necesa. Ni povus alternative adoptar "Finna" quale en E= speranto, e takaze on anke audus la difero de "fina", nam on devus pronunca= r la litero "n" dufoye. 1527 - Partaka: "Saluto, Robert! Me sugestis vorti = quala "Finia, Finiano, Finiana", nur por la kazo ke oli esus absolute bezon= ata." - - "Kande me dicas "Finia", me ne referas exakte a Finlando, ma al p= arto di Finlando qua expresas su en la Finlandana ("Finiana")." Pos tala m= ultalatera diskuso me komprenis, ke esus posibla uzar l' expreso "Fina ling= uo". Ma me lasas ca problemo por futura pondero, e ne-expektante turnas la = pensado a la Wikipedio. La problemo di uzar "Finlandana" o "Fina" esus tre= minimala, se me skribus e lektus en Ido okazione. Ma me laboris preske tot= a mea historio kom Idisto che Wikipedio e Wikivortaro, e me skribis texti, = qui relatas Finlando (Finia*) e Fina(*) linguo. La sistemo di Wikii bezonas= omnaloke unformeso dil vorti uzata ed ibe la ligili inter pagini e vorti f= uncionas nur, se la vorti esas skribita sempre identikale. Kande Wikipedio = o Wikivortaro grandeskas, grandeskas anke la laboro por efacar / korektigar= la deskorekta vortoformi. Nun la Wikivortaro kontenas l' expreso "Fina" mu= lta-mil-foye, e me ankorfoye saveskas, ke ol esas deskorekta. Se me ne labo= rus che Wikii, me ne havus ula urjanta problemo, ma me volas laborar favora= nte Ido. Pro lo, supre mencionita, me ankore pregas, ke plu experta Idisti= kam me (diletanta amatoro) aktive laborus en Wikipedio e Wikivortaro. Omna= Wikii esas nun preske la maxim vizitata retositui en la mondo, e bone orga= nizita Wikii altralingua havas anke ligili ad Idala Wikii. Tamaniere l' Ida= la Wikii esas bona reklamili pri Ido por tota mondo =96 ma nur se l' Idala = Wikii esas en bona stando. En Wikipedio esas pagino, en qua on povas kolek= tar deskorekta e korektigita vorti pro lernado por omni. Ve, se ulo skribab= us ibe pri "Fina"! Anke en Wikivortaro esas posibla uzar la sistemo di la k= ategoriizo por kolektar falsa e misuzata vorti. Me ja kolektis kelka obsole= ta vortoformi en la kategorio por li. =96 Kar amiki, partoprenez en la Wiki= i! Pardonez pro tala longa mesajo, Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1980 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50045 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2005 17:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Oct 2005 17:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2005 17:16:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n5.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2005 17:15:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2005 17:15:48 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:15:48 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=rl-qaBIQjy5EeNh6eOF5KbK_W5FP81bWLwqzZKkB0XsrJGRvSjc X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio Kara samideani, Me probas komprenar, pro qua me preferas nova expresuri "F= ina linguo" e "Finia" vice "Finlandana linguo" e "Finlando", ed explikar ol= ad altri, pro ke multafoye la novaji esas valorita kom forjetinda. Me trov= is un kauzo explikanta. (Notez, ke me savas nur GAR-lingui, do en HIF-lingu= i povas esar erori.) En ca bazala lingui, quin me konocas, la komencopunto= di la vortifado esas HOMO: G: Finn-e -> (1) finn-isch (-e Sprache, -er Ma= nn, -es Haus). (2) Finn-land. A: Finn -> (1) Finn-ish (language, man, hou= se). (2) Fin-land. R: finn -> (1) fin-sk-iy (iazyk, muzhchina, dom). (2) F= in-lyand-iya. En Franca e Hispana uzesas kom komencopunti ambe (1) homo e = (2) areo: F: (1) finn-ois -> finn-oise langue. F: (2) Finlande-e -> finlan= d-ais (homme / maison). H: (1) fin-=E9s -> lengua fin-esa. H: (2) Finland-= ia -> finland-=E9s (hombre / casa), lengua finland-esa. Malgre ico por Ido= selektesis ek AFGHIR-lingui la modelo, quan Ital(ian)a donas: I: Finland-= ia -> finland-ese (lingua / uomo / casa) En ca linguo la komencopunto di l= a vortifado esas nur la vorto, qua signifikas AREO. Do en Ido uzesas ca ser= io di la vortifado: Finland-o -> Finland-an-o, Finland-an-a (linguo, homo, = domo), e segunvole on povas uzar: Finlanda (linguo, homo, domo). Pro quo e= k sis bazala lingui di Ido selektesis Italiana por la modelo kande kin ek s= is suportus altra moyeno? Pluse la Sueda, Norvega, Dana e Nederlanda linguo= funcionas same kam la Germana, e adminimi la Polona linguo funcionas same = kam la Rusa. Segun mea pensado, la homo e lua linguo esas plu bona komenco= punto kam ula areo. La homo povas parolar en lua linguo irgaloke en la mond= o. Pro to, on povas parolar en Fina linguo, exemple, anke en Australia. En = mea kompreno Idala expresuro "Finlandana linguo" signifikas "linguo, per qu= a ula membro / lojanto di Finlando parolas" (lu povas esar Lapono, Suedo, R= uso), e kontree "Fina linguo" signifikas "linguo, per qua ula Fina* persono= (membro di Finia*) parolas". Vere parolante, men kontentigus anke l' expr= esuro-paro "Fina linguo" e "Finlando" (kam en Espo: Finna, Finnlando), ma t= ala vortifado ne esus logika. Pro Idala klareso on mustus, pos la selekto d= i "Fina, -o", selektar anke "Finia" vice "Finlando". Certe la homonimeso "= Fino" e "fino" efektigos ulatempe problemo, ma per injeniita linguo-uzo ol = esas evitebla. La Angla-parolanta amiki povas donar a ni konsili, pro ke en= Angla la difero inter "finish" e "Finnish" esas nur ortografiala. Ka me j= a tro-iritas per ca afero? Ma me vivas EN ca afero. Omna bona ad amiki en = Idia, Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1981 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81393 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2005 18:31:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Oct 2005 18:31:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2005 18:31:01 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.91]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 51091307 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:34:26 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:27:37 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510252027.37723.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=5x-k_SF1eyb-n7v5pVTAbtvHH1NCj1_YuY7E4cazXbXySb6HGdSb X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El Martes 25 Octubre 2005 19:15, Arto Moisio escribi=F3: > Segun mea pensad= o, la homo e lua linguo esas plu bona komencopunto kam > ula areo. En Ido n= i havas la lando e de la lando on derivas la lojanti e la linguo segun reg= uloza sistemo. Ni ne facez ecepto por Finlando, ka? > En mea kompreno Idal= a expresuro "Finlandana linguo" signifikas > "linguo, per qua ula membro / = lojanto di Finlando parolas" (lu povas > esar Lapono, Suedo, Ruso), e kontr= ee "Fina linguo" signifikas "linguo, > per qua ula Fina* persono (membro di= Finia*) parolas". Se vu parolus pri Hispania lore me povus komprenar vua p= roblemo. En Hispania existas plura lingui. On parolas Galisiana, Katalunia= na, Kastiliana, edc. Parolar pri "Hispana" (o "Hispaniana, to esas sinonim= o) linguo esas forsan tro ne-exakta, pro ke existas plura Hispaniana lingu= i (t.s. la lojanti di Hispania havas diferanta matrala lingui - mem se li = omna anke lernas Kastiliana). Ma existas nur *un* Finlandana linguo, ka = ne? (Me savas ke anke Sueda esas oficala linguo en Finlando, ma ol ya ne e= sas la "nacionala linguo" di Finlando.) Pro to singlu quik komprenas qua l= inguon vu vizas kande vu dicas "Finlandana". En Luxemburgia nia nacionala= linguo esas Luxemburgiana, ma ni havas du plusa oficala lingui. Pluse kel= ka personi en Belgia parolas Luxemburgiana e forsan anke altraloke. Pro to= la *situaciono esas la sama kam pri Finlandana linguo, ka ne? Ka vu do an= ke pensas ke esas necesa trovar altra vorto por Luxemburgiana linguo? (E c= erte on povas trovar multa simila kazi; do multa nova linguo-nomi en Ido?)= > Certe la homonimeso "Fino" e "fino" efektigos ulatempe problemo Pro quo= vu volas chanjar reguloza sistemo aden ne-reguloza sistemo kande pose vu = *pluse* havas tala problemo? > Ka me ja tro-iritas per ca afero? Ma me viv= as EN ca afero. Esas ya bona diskutar. E mem se me havas altra opiniono pri= ca specala punto, to ne impedas me amikale diskutar kun vu. Konservema s= aluti, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1982 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94501 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2005 21:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Oct 2005 21:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.48) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 2005 21:17:53 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2005 21:17:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2005 21:17:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:17:40 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510252027.37723.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=0-6ndnhNYhE2SUQBPi1ppwg3IjBFgZbluNwZLjyNnfzt3YyJ800 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Stevve Walesch wrote: > > El = Martes 25 Octubre 2005 19:15, Arto Moisio escribi=F3: > > Segun mea pensado= , la homo e lua linguo esas plu bona komencopunto > > kam ula areo. > En I= do ni havas la lando e de la lando on derivas la lojanti e la > linguo se= gun reguloza sistemo. Ni ne facez ecepto por Finlando, ka? Pro qua kurta f= ormi eceptala kam Angla, Franca, Hispana, Dana esas aceptita, ma ne Bulgara= , Albana e tala? > > En mea kompreno Idala expresuro "Finlandana linguo" s= ignifikas > > "linguo, per qua ula membro / lojanto di Finlando parolas" (l= u > > povas esar Lapono, Suedo, Ruso), e kontree "Fina linguo" > > signif= ikas "linguo, per qua ula Fina* persono (membro di Finia*) > > parolas". >= Se vu parolus pri Hispania lore me povus komprenar vua problemo. En > Hi= spania existas plura lingui. On parolas Galisiana, Kataluniana, > Kastili= ana, edc. Parolar pri "Hispana" (o "Hispaniana, to esas > sinonimo) lingu= o esas forsan tro ne-exakta, pro ke existas plura > Hispaniana lingui (t.= s. la lojanti di Hispania havas diferanta > matrala lingui - mem se li om= na anke lernas Kastiliana). > > Ma existas nur *un* Finlandana linguo, ka= ne? (Me savas ke anke > Sueda esas oficala linguo en Finlando, ma ol ya = ne esas la > "nacionala linguo" di Finlando.) Pro to singlu quik komprena= s qua > linguon vu vizas kande vu dicas "Finlandana". > Segun la konstit= uciono di Finlando, Finlando esas dulingua republiko. Pro to omna oficala t= exti mustas skribar en oficala e nacionala lingui Finlandana: en Fina ed en= Sueda. Me pensas, ke Finlando esas plu strikte dulingua stato kam Hispania= . En statala nivelo di Hispania la lingui nur existas, lokale Galisiana, Ka= taluniana, Kastiliana havas oficala statuso. En Finlando omna oficisti omna= loke mustas (mustus!) savar la duesma hem-landa linguo, Fina o Sueda. Nia = linguala historio recenta esas forsan interesanta por vu. Kurte dicante: en= 19ma yarcento tota alt-kulturo esis Suedalingua quankam la Suedalingua pop= ulo esis mikra. Ye la fino di la 19ma yarcento ca mikra Suedalingua populo = komprenis, ke la naciono povas ganor statala statuso nur se la granda Final= ingua majoritato suportabus ol. Pro to la Suedalinguala elito volunte chanj= is lua linguo de Sueda a Fina. Kande Finlando divenis nedependanta de Rusia= , en la konstituciono skribesis tre forta protekto por la linguo di la mino= ritato (nun nur 8 %). > > > Certe la homonimeso "Fino" e "fino" efektigos = ulatempe problemo > Pro quo vu volas chanjar reguloza sistemo aden ne-regul= oza sistemo > kande pose vu *pluse* havas tala problemo? > Me esas lingu= isto (profesionale) e mea specala domeno esas Fino-ugristiko. Do me esas Fi= no-ugristo. O ka me esas Finlandana-ugristo? Existas tota brancho en lingui= stiko, qua bezonas Idala termini, qui venos de la radiko Fin-. Anke pri to = me skribis antee e ne recevis kontentiganta respondo. Problemoza saluti Ar= to Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1983 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83882 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2005 07:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2005 07:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2005 07:09:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n17.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Oct 2005 07:09:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Oct 2005 07:09:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:09:17 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510252027.37723.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=NrUvNLeqkjWP0nh3ifrnXdmvNNMsKc9jhshe5sf_2GXhTcB55G0 X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Stevve Walesch wrote: > > El = Martes 25 Octubre 2005 19:15, Arto Moisio escribi=F3: > > Segun mea pensado= , la homo e lua linguo esas plu bona komencopunto > > kam ula areo. > En I= do ni havas la lando e de la lando on derivas la lojanti e la > linguo se= gun reguloza sistemo. Ni ne facez ecepto por Finlando, ka? > (Duesma komen= to:) Se la komencopunto di la vortifado esas la nomo di lando, ube jacas "C= igania", la lando di Cigano? Ube esas "Yidishia", se on povas skribar Yidis= ha? Ube "Sanskritia", se esas Sanskrita? En la historio di Europa vivis Got= o; kad lu parolis Gota linguo? Ube existis "Gotia"? Slava linguo, ma ne Sla= via? Judo parolas en Hebrea ma ne en "Judiana". En ca relato la lando esas= sekundara e la homo esas la centro di la homala kulturo. En la mondo exist= as c. 200 stati, e multa landi, ma c. 6.000 lingui ed en la historio exista= s plusa lingui. Ni ne povas omnakaze nominar la lando, ma ni povas nominar = la linguo. Ofte la lando di la habitanti esas pose nomizita segun lia lingu= o, exemple, Anglia esas Anglia pro ke la habitanti parolas Angla linguo. Ni= esis Fini ante la existo di Finlando. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1984 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79740 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2005 09:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2005 09:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2005 09:00:20 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.195]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 51163554 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:03:49 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:56:59 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510261056.59880.SPW@vo.lu> X-SpamDetect: *: 1.200000 Hidden (professional) (profeslo)=1.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=O3ocKwq6n2M7MxE8PGPh4BUT8k8t2QXqJWBEW-Cbpqh9LaYP71a1 X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara Arto, Danko pro vua interesiva mesaji. Li efektive bone respondis ad ula argumenti quin me mencionis. Konseque me nun pensas poke diferante e vua esforci ne esas vana. Ta argumenti konvinkis me e pro to me ne bezonas respondar itere a ta punti. Tamen vu ne respondis a mea maxim importanta argumento, qua semblas a me decidiva. Me skribis: En Luxemburgia nia nacionala linguo esas Luxemburgiana, ma ni havas du plusa oficala lingui. Pluse kelka personi en Belgia parolas Luxemburgiana e forsan anke altraloke. Pro to la situeso esas la sama kam pri Finlandana linguo, ka ne? Ka vu do anke pensas ke esas necesa trovar altra vorto por Luxemburgiana linguo? E certe on povas trovar multa simila kazi; do multa nova linguo-nomi en Ido? > Me esas linguisto (profesionale) e mea specala domeno esas > Fino-ugristiko. Do me esas Fino-ugristo. O ka me esas > Finlandana-ugristo? En kelka lingui (exemple Franca) existas du vorti (quale vu juste mencionis). FR: finnois = populo qua habitas en extrem-nord-westo di Rusia e precipue en Finlando. (Ol do ne relatas nur la lando Finlando!) FR: finlandais => de Finlando *Fin(n)o-ugristo relatas certe la unesma termino qua ne ankore esas oficala en Ido. Forsan ni efektive bezonas ol, e vu precipue kom *Fin(n)o-ugristo ne povas aceptar Finlandana-ugristo, nam *Fin(n)i ne bezonas esar Finlandani. Ma por me existas nula dubito ke Finlandana anke esas justa vorto. Finlandana nulatempe darfas relatar Sueda. Ka ne la Finlandana linguo esas la "propra" linguo di Finlando? Sueda esas precipue parolata en Suedia ed ol ne esas parto di la identeso di Finlando tam multe kam la Finlandana, ka? Forsan FinlandaLa esus apta por l'altra signifiko. Me ne havas problemo kun frazo: "Existas du Finlandala lingui; la Finlandana e la Sueda". Quon vu opinionas pri ta frazo? Ma me itere volas emfazar ke la situeso en Finlando ne esas unika e ke existas kelka landi ube existas plura oficala lingui. Ni ne reformez la tota sistemo. Amikale, Steve P.S. Ni havas ya problemo pri "Fina" e "fina"; pluse "Finna" kun du "n" anke esas des-konsilinda, nam Ido ne prizas duopla konsonanti. Pro to me pensis pri ula radiko qua venas de "suomi". Certe vu kom *Fin(n)o-ugristo povas plu bone judikar ka to esus posiblajo. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1985 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18476 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2005 15:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2005 15:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2005 15:25:10 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Oct 2005 15:24:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Oct 2005 15:24:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:24:29 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510261056.59880.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=hM1j_vXraPeWds3sM2A-D6y3hEBiOKQuqgjzIXsigdt0t_ZkJXw X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Stevve Walesch wrote: > Tame= n vu ne respondis a mea maxim importanta argumento, qua semblas > a me dec= idiva. La proxima e propra problemi esas la maxim urjanta, ka ne? > > En = Luxemburgia nia nacionala linguo esas Luxemburgiana, ma ni havas du > plus= a oficala lingui. Pluse kelka personi en Belgia parolas Luxemburgiana > e = forsan anke altraloke. Pro to la situeso esas la sama kam pri Finlandana >= linguo, ka ne? Ka vu do anke pensas ke esas necesa trovar altra vorto por = > Luxemburgiana linguo? > Me timas donar opiniono pri l' afero, quon me = ne savas bone. Ma se vu demandas respondo: me ne vidas ula problemo. Se la= lando esas Luxemburg-ia, la homo esus Luxemburg-ia-no (per progresiva vor= tifado) ed anke posible Luxemburg-o (per regresiva vortifado), qua parolas= Luxemburg-a linguo ed anke posible Luxemburg-i-an-a linguo. Kam Finia, F= in(ian)o, Fin(ian)a. > > > Me esas linguisto (profesionale) e mea specala = domeno esas > > Fino-ugristiko. Do me esas Fino-ugristo. O ka me esas > > F= inlandana-ugristo? > En kelka lingui (exemple Franca) existas du vorti (qu= ale vu juste mencionis). > FR: finnois =3D populo qua habitas en extrem-nor= d-westo di Rusia e precipue > en Finlando. (Ol do ne relatas nur la lando = Finlando!) > FR: finlandais =3D> de Finlando > *Fin(n)o-ugristo relatas cer= te la unesma termino qua ne ankore esas oficala > en Ido. Forsan ni efekti= ve bezonas ol, e vu precipue kom *Fin(n)o-ugristo ne > povas aceptar Finla= ndana-ugristo, nam *Fin(n)i ne bezonas esar Finlandani. > Ka ni trovus re= zolvo, se ni separus normala e ciencala vortifado. Normale ni uzus Finland= o -> Finlandano, -a, ed en cienco (linguistiko, folkloristiko) ni uzus la = radiko Fin-. Ol povus donar a ni termini Fino-ugristiko, Fino-ugristo, Fin= o-ugra lingui, Fino-Volgala lingui, Baltiko-Fina lingui, Fina linguo. La s= pecialisto, di qua specala domeno esas Fina linguo, esus Finisto. (En Fina = ni uzas la vorto "fennisti", la vorto vere existas!, anke "fennismi".) La = koliziono di duala uzado venus, se ulo uzus "Finlandana linguo" ed altro "= Fina linguo", ed amba pensas esar justa. > > Forsan FinlandaLa esus apta = por l'altra signifiko. Me ne havas problemo > kun frazo: "Existas du Finla= ndala lingui; la Finlandana e la Sueda". Quon vu > opinionas pri ta frazo?= Plu bone esus "...Finlandana e Sued-an-a". Pro quo aceptas ecepti? > > Ma= me itere volas emfazar ke la situeso en Finlando ne esas unika e ke > exi= stas kelka landi ube existas plura oficala lingui. Ni ne reformez la tota = sistemo. > Me ne asertas, ke la situaciono di Finlando esus unika. Ol esas= nur l' exemplo, quan me savas sat bone. L' objekto esas Ido, quo esas pl= ubonigebla. > > P.S. Ni havas ya problemo pri "Fina" e "fina"; pluse "Finn= a" kun du "n" anke > esas des-konsilinda, nam Ido ne prizas duopla konsona= nti. Pro to me > pensis pri ula radiko qua venas de "suomi". Certe vu kom = *Fin(n)o-ugristo > povas plu bone judikar ka to esus posiblajo. Esus tre = plezanta uzar "Suomi" por vortifado, ma ol duktus ni a plusa problemi. Exe= mple, omna parenta lingui di Fina havas anke sua propra nomo: Cheremiso = =3D Mari, Votyako =3D Udmurt, Ostyako =3D Hanti, Vogulo =3D Mansi edc. Log= ikale ni mustus uzar ank oli. Plu bona esas, se ni restas en AFGHIR-lingui.= Kordiale, Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1986 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22572 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2005 16:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2005 16:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2005 16:29:33 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.195]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 51209288 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:36:14 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:29:23 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510261829.23436.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=4_0_CP4zollJ2g0Obx6TnYLEW8TEZhLnOapiKImnJ_4I35TUiIhZ X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El Mi=E9rcoles 26 Octubre 2005 17:24, Arto Moisio escribi=F3: > me ne vidas= ula problemo. Se la lando esas > Luxemburg-ia, la homo esus Luxemburg-ia-n= o (per progresiva vortifado) ed Se la lando esas Finlando, la homo esus Fin= land-an-o e la linguo Finlandana. Ka ne la sama kozo? Do nula problemo. >= anke posible Luxemburg-o (per regresiva vortifado) Regresiva vortifado ne = esas permisata (segun KGD). E hike esas bona exemplo pro quo ol ne esas ge= neraligebla. Luxemburg esas la chefurbo di Luxemburgia, pro to ni ne darfa= s dicar Luxemburgo por la habitanto, nam lore on ne plus savas ka lu esas = habitanto dil urbo o dil lando. > > Forsan FinlandaLa esus apta por l'altr= a signifiko. Me ne havas problemo > > kun frazo: "Existas du Finlandala lin= gui; la Finlandana e la Sueda". Quon > > vu opinionas pri ta frazo? > > Plu= bone esus "...Finlandana e Sued-an-a". Pro quo aceptas ecepti? Suedana esa= s lo sama kam Sueda, ed amba signifikas exakte lo sama. KGD definas Sueda = kom sinonimo di Suedana. Ni havas tala abreviuri por kelka ofte uzata popu= li, pro ke on definas li tale anke en altra lingui. Se to ne plezas a vu, = nulu impedas vu dicar "Germanana" segun la reguloza sistemo. La avantajo di= l reguloza sistemo esas ke ol esas vere generaligebla. Ma la kreo di nova = ecepti ne faciligas la afero, pro to me esperas ke nulu uzas altra abreviu= ri kam ti explicite permisata en KGD. > Me ne asertas, ke la situaciono d= i Finlando esus unika. Ol esas nur l' > exemplo, quan me savas sat bone. L'= objekto esas Ido, quo esas > plubonigebla. Quo esas la plubonigo se vu def= inas la lando kom "Finia" vice "Finlando" (se ton vu intencas)? Me pensis = ke vu volas vorto qua relatas la populo dil Fin(n)i ( =3D populo qua habit= as en extrem-nord-westo di Rusia e precipue en Finlando). Ta vorto povus e= sar utila, pro ke ol signifikas altra kozo. Se on definas "Finia" kom sino= nimo di "Finlando" lore olua adopto valoras ya nulo. La problemo pri qua v= u plendas povas ya nur esar solvita per la distingo inter 1. la populo qu= a habitas en Finlando (di qua la limiti esas videbla sur omna mapi). e 2. = la populo qua habitas en extrem-nord-westo di Rusia e precipue en Finlando = Por ke vu bone komprenez me, me rezumas quale me pensas pri la afero: 1. = Finlando esas la lando kun chefurbo Helsinki ube vivas precipue Finlandani.= De to on darfas reguloze derivar Finlandana (linguo). 2. *Fin(n)i =3D pop= ulo qua habitas en extrem-nord-westo di Rusia e precipue en Finlando De to= on derivas "Fin(n)o-ugristiko, Fin(n)o-ugristo, Fin(n)o-ugra lingui, edc.= " Me povas imaginar ke de Fi(n)ni on darfus derivar Fin(n)a (linguo). Ma ta= linguo povus nur esar la sama linguo kam la Finlandana, nam la du populi = di qui me skribis esas karakterizata per la sama linguo (evidente, nam la = majoritato dil populo 2 apartenas ya anke al populo 1). Til balde, Steve = From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1987 Return-Path: X-Sender: dongasper7@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75575 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2005 02:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2005 02:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60825.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.233) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2005 02:45:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 72343 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Oct 2005 02:45:49 -0000 Message-ID: <20051027024549.72341.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.198.1.249] by web60825.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:45:49 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200510261829.23436.SPW@vo.lu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Don Gasper Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=165299308; y=bOpbj0nlGN3l0GiyxDGewy-ufs2ENX0ZcjXLA3Qa6G20lH_e3w X-Yahoo-Profile: dongasper7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nek "Suedana" nek "Germanana" esas bona. On preferinde dicez "Suediana" ("Sueda") e "Germaniana" ("Germana"). Steve Walesch skribis: > > Plu bone esus "...Finlandana e Sued-an-a". Pro quo aceptas ecepti? Suedana esas lo sama kam Sueda, ed amba signifikas exakte lo sama. KGD definas Sueda kom sinonimo di Suedana. Ni havas tala abreviuri por kelka ofte uzata populi, pro ke on definas li tale anke en altra lingui. Se to ne plezas a vu, nulu impedas vu dicar "Germanana" segun la reguloza sistemo. La avantajo dil reguloza sistemo esas ke ol esas vere generaligebla. Ma la kreo di nova ecepti ne faciligas la afero, pro to me esperas ke nulu uzas altra abreviuri kam ti explicite permisata en KGD. --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1988 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56239 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2005 06:24:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2005 06:24:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2005 06:24:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n23.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2005 06:24:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2005 06:24:17 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:24:17 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20051027024549.72341.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=mHBm3vQOKC9ZrqyyG3xJxhJ-YsKd61IgqYrEpszkwLVXH3KzaRo X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Don Gasper wrote: > >= Nek "Suedana" nek "Germanana" esas bona. On preferinde dicez "Suediana" (= "Sueda") e "Germaniana" ("Germana"). > > Plu bone esus "...Finlandana e S= ued-an-a". Pro quo aceptas ecepti? Pardonez, la vortoformo "Suedana" esis = erora. Me pensis skribar "Suediana". La litero "i" esas streta, mikra e ne= bone videbla. L' omiso di un litero igis me stupida. salutante, Arto Mois= io From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1989 Return-Path: X-Sender: artomo@jippii.fi X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50287 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2005 07:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2005 07:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2005 07:01:11 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2005 07:00:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2005 07:00:32 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:00:31 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200510261829.23436.SPW@vo.lu> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Arto Moisio" Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=180601659; y=ZXVZQILYA2FOyjRN1Xl-KuOEYmdHe-PF_Sycl6EKOP8qcmGHjAs X-Yahoo-Profile: arto_moisio --- In linguolisto@yahoogroups.com, Stevve Walesch wrote: > > Reg= resiva vortifado ne esas permisata (segun KGD). La frazo "regresiva vorti= fado" esis uzata nur por explikar eventuale la karaktero dil exemplo. Me n= e asertis, ke regresiva vortifado esus ula moyeno en Ido. (Altralatere: ub= e ol esas interdiktata?) > Luxemburg esas la chefurbo di Luxemburgia, > p= ro to ni ne darfas dicar Luxemburgo por la habitanto, nam lore on ne plus = > savas ka lu esas habitanto dil urbo o dil lando. > En mea matrala linguo= (balde me timas expresar en Ido, qua ol esas) la linguo esas "suomi" e l= a lando esas "Suomi". Ni ne havas problemo komprenar, kand on dicas pri la= linguo e kande pri la lando. - - - - Me repetas mea propozo: Ka ni trov= us rezolvo, se ni separus normala e ciencala vortifado? Normale ni uzus "F= inlando -> Finlandano, -a", ed en cienco (linguistiko, folkloristiko e tal= a) ni uzus la radiko Fin-. Ol povus donar a ni termini kom "Fino-ugristiko,= Fino-ugristo, Fino-ugra lingui, Fino-Volgala lingui, Baltiko-Fina lingui,= Fina linguo", qui ankore ne esas autorizita en Ido. Vere ca duktus a kol= iziono di la paro "Finlandana linguo" e "Fina linguo" ma amba esis korekta= per diferanta motivo. Ka me ja tro-iritas? Kordiale, Arto Moisio From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1990 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 587 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2005 07:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2005 07:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2005 07:28:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2005 07:27:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Oct 2005 07:27:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:27:58 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: La eliziono di -a X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=Bx_bmG10Rc4o3669KcKbByoTW3aJwsR-jX-gyK3QlL0aL_E X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara samideani, Me savas ke la eliziono dil -a finala che adjektivi esas a= dmisata, sempre ke lo ne efektigas desfacilaji en la pronunco. Me pensas k= e to esas forsan tre subjektala, nam ulo povas esar facile pronuncebla po= r kelki, ma desfacile pronuncebla por altri, precipue, segun la traiti dil= linguo denaska di singla Idisto. Ma ne to desquietigas me, nam fakte mem = se ulu elizionas la -a, pro ke lu konsideras la rezultajo kom facile pronu= ncebla, altra Idisto povas simple "deselizionar" la -a e pronuncar la vort= o itere kompleta. Mea sorgo nuna esas diferanta. Me questionas me ka konve= nas aceptar tala eliziono en adjektivi derivita de vorti sen dezinenco, ex= emple en l'adjektivi nuna, nura, antea, olima, lora, mea, tua, lua, edc. = Segun la regulo, anke ta vorti darfas perdar sua -a finala, ma ka lo konve= nas? Ka ne esas posibla miskomprenar ke ti esas la vorti originala de qui = li derivesis: nun, nur, ante, olim, lor, me, tu, lu, edc.? Forsan, esas nu= la danjero pro ke la diferanta funcioni gramatikala ne permisas tala konfu= zo. Ma me ne certesas. Quon vi opinionas? Me vin predankas, Eduardo A. R= ODI. From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1991 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60636 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2005 12:09:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Oct 2005 12:09:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Oct 2005 12:09:18 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.195]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 51308531 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:12:27 +0200 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:05:34 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20051027024549.72341.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20051027024549.72341.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200510271405.34780.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Re: [linguo] Finlando o Finia? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=PIX6pNdkY4zGvw01DIjmwHn7S2F2naJWStKATctiLFSJzqZWNMvN X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch El Jueves 27 Octubre 2005 04:45, Don Gasper escribi=F3: > Nek "Suedana" nek= "Germanana" esas bona. On preferinde dicez "Suediana" > ("Sueda") e "Germa= niana" ("Germana"). Ho! Evidente, me eroris. Me atencis la multa "a" e "n"= , ma tote obliviis la "i". Komprenende me nule volis justifikar ta eroroza= vorti. Danko pro mencionar lo Don! Ad Arto, Me pensas ya ke me (en mea = antea mesajo) fakte propozis lo sama kam vu. Uzar "Finlando -> Finlandano,= -a", ma anke (kande to esas oportuna, e precipue en cienco) *Fi(n)no. Ka = ni do ne tote interkonsentas? Me pensas ke yes, ecepte ke me plu ofte tend= encas uzar "Finlandana" e vu "*Fin(n)a", ma la elekto dil vorto dependas y= a del exakta signifiko quan on vizas. (Forsan ni ne quik komprenis l'unu l= 'altru pro ke ni havis altra vid-punto dil sama kozo.) Tamen me ankore que= stionas me quale opinionas altra Idisti, ed anke qua formon ni fine adopte= z, ka *Fino o *Finno (o forsan ankore altra)? Me tote ne savas qua esas ma= xim apta. Amba havas evidenta problemi. Amikale, Steve From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1992 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92551 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2005 04:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Oct 2005 04:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.146) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 2005 04:37:50 -0000 Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.193]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20051030043604.XVPJ20660.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:36:04 +1300 Received: from [202.27.184.228] by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20051030043603.IHNZ2587.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[202.27.184.228]> for ; Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:36:03 +1300 To: Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:36:03 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20051030043603.IHNZ2587.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[202.27.184.228]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Subject: Re: [linguo] La eliziono di -a X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=LbJWT0V-y42CZS09o1kj1K9gC47DZmpUJ-bhXrpbiqkZNDNV4AZJwGc X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar Eduardo, (i) La franca linguo ofte havas l=92eliziono ed Ido permisas l= a sama, ma ne tro freque. (ii) Supozeble vu lektabas la KGD (pag 28) e me s= entas ke on kustume uzas l=92eliziono dil =93a=94 di adjektivo o l=92artikl= o avan substantivo qua komencas per vokalo. (iii) Per ta moyeno on evitas= hiato inter adjektivo e substantivo, p.e. l=92akumulo es plu belsona kam l= a akumulo. (iv) Tamen on perdas la senco se on elizionas nura, nure, nuna, = olima edc. ed anke on ne darfas elizionar la vokalo en =93di=94, =93da=94 e= =93de=94 pro ke ta vokali es esenca por la senco. (v) Do on uzas l=92elizi= ono volunte segun belsoneso e senco. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: = "Eduardo A. Rodi" > Date: 2005/10/27 Thu PM 08:27:58= GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [linguo] La elizion= o di -a > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1993 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22452 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2005 05:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Oct 2005 05:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.59) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Oct 2005 05:21:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n6.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2005 05:20:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer2.bulk.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2005 05:20:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Oct 2005 05:20:29 -0000 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 05:20:29 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20051030043603.IHNZ2587.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[202.27.184.228]> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: [linguo] La eliziono di -a X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=FHW6CsLxdP12Mj1MhV4lC8JF9gGnicrp8LWLINo5PJ1wlfA X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Richard, Fakte, nulo altra kam l'uzado, e l'exempli Franca ed Italian= a, konsilas ke l'eliziono eventez nur ante vokalo. Lo esas ya l'uzado max= im frequa, ma me supozas ke onu ya povus anke elizionar la A finala anke e= n altra kazi, qui ne desfaciligus la pronunco. Generale, on povus eliziona= r la A di vorti finanta per UN konsonanto + A, se ta vorti sequesas da vor= to komencanta per UN konsonanto + vokalo. Exemple, me ne pensas ke esas tr= o desfacila pronuncar "tal kondicioni", "bon dio", "kar samideani", edc. A= nke, me vidas problemo nek regulala nek praktikala pri skribar exemple "..= .ke l' tempo..." (to quo lektesus /kel tempo/). Tamen, me ne ofte renkont= ras tala elizioni en Ido, e pro to me ipsa ne multe audacas agar same. Ir= gakaze, mea questiono originesis ne del deziro elizionar la A ante konsona= nto. Fakte, la kazo qua igis me pensar pri eliziono esis la frazo "Mea Eur= opa". En ta kazo, esas ya quar vokali kuna, to quo bone justifikus e mem d= emandus la eliziono. Ma se onu elizionus, la rezultajo esus "Me Europa", q= ua povus esar misinterpretata, pro la diversa signifiko di "ME". Pro to, m= e questionis vi en Linguolisto ka povas eventar ambiguajo en tala kazi. C= etere, me konkordas e bone komprenas ke la prepozicioni "di", "da" e "de" = ne darfas elizionesar, nam se onu lektus "d'", onu ne povus savar qua vort= on de ta tri onu intencis uzar. Amikale, Eduardo A. RODI. --- In linguol= isto@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Kar Eduardo, > (i) La f= ranca linguo ofte havas l'eliziono ed Ido permisas la sama, ma ne tro freq= ue. > (ii) Supozeble vu lektabas la KGD (pag 28) e me sentas ke on kustume= uzas l'eliziono dil "a" di adjektivo o l'artiklo avan substantivo qua ko= mencas per vokalo. > (iii) Per ta moyeno on evitas hiato inter adjektivo e= substantivo, p.e. l'akumulo es plu belsona kam > la akumulo. > (iv) Tamen= on perdas la senco se on elizionas nura, > nure, nuna, olima edc. ed anke = on ne darfas elizionar > la vokalo en "di", "da" e "de" pro ke ta vokali es= esenca por la senco. > (v) Do on uzas l'eliziono volunte segun belsoneso = e senco. Amikale, Richard S. > > > > > > From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" <= eduarodi@h...> > > Date: 2005/10/27 Thu PM 08:27:58 GMT+13:00 > > To: lingu= olisto@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [linguo] La eliziono di -a > > > > > = > > > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1994 Return-Path: X-Sender: rich.steven@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93901 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2005 02:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Nov 2005 02:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz) (210.86.15.187) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Nov 2005 02:09:04 -0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20051101020902.HFKL1599.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2005 15:09:02 +1300 Received: from [202.27.184.228] by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20051101020902.RPZL7245.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[202.27.184.228]> for ; Tue, 1 Nov 2005 15:09:02 +1300 To: Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 15:09:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20051101020902.RPZL7245.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[202.27.184.228]> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Subject: Re: Re: [linguo] La eliziono di -a X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=30255837; y=p8zdKtQ6xXie8PJdl5-nMkstYR7U4UXsJgzPue6TI_c0bU-xwpXq5Is X-Yahoo-Profile: richsteven2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kar Eduardo, Sendubite vu lektabas ke on darfas elizionar l=92artiklo avan = konsonanto dop la vorti da, de, di, exemple da l=92regulo edc. (KGD, pag. = 19). Tamen me ne sentas ke altra elizioni avan konsonanti es dezirebla. Un = avantajo di Ido es l=92evitado di grupi di konsonanti quin ni vidas en Espe= ranto, exemple scias, funkcio. La maxim facila pronunco es per l=92alternad= o di konsonanto e vokalo (KVKV edc. quale Japona). Certena lingui, exemple = de Est-europa ofte uzas konsonanta-grupi, ma lia pronunco ne es facila en W= est-europa. Evidente, segun la KGD, hiato ne es eroro. ma en la Franca lin= guo, eliziono ofte *okuras. Me trovas ke la pronunco di duopla vokali en Id= o quale ee (antee), oo (heroo) ed ii (radii) es plu facila se on pozas mik= ra sono di =93y=94 o =93w=94 inter la vokali ,exemple, ee =3D eye, oo =3D = owo ed ii =3D iyi. Interesante, pro ke me habitas la Pacifiko, la lingui di= la diversa insuli ofte mankas konsonanti (Havayi nur havas 8). Konseque la= vokali es tre importanta e povas facar stranja grupi, quale uea, aoa ed = auea. Amikale, Richard S. > > From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" > Date: 2005/10/30 Sun PM 06:20:29 GMT+13:00 > To: linguolisto@yahoog= roups.com > Subject: Re: [linguo] La eliziono di -a > > [Non-text porti= ons of this message have been removed] From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1995 Return-Path: X-Sender: narcar@sis.it X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@egroups.com Received: (qmail 69121 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2005 14:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Nov 2005 14:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO vsmtp2alice.tin.it) (212.216.176.142) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Nov 2005 14:12:02 -0000 Received: from nardinic (82.54.255.135) by vsmtp2alice.tin.it (7.2.060.1) id 436784BF00024755 for linguolisto@egroups.com; Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:11:33 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c5dfb8$1aa49f60$87ff3652@nardinic> To: "Linguolisto" Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:17:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Carlo Nardini" Subject: Popurito X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=22985407; y=sRFDJt5fz5eTBE8at0OQZQwGIAtaa2ZN-L4-eqgzBzfY0xM X-Yahoo-Profile: narcarus Rezume: <<< me questionas me ka konvenas aceptar eliziono...en adjektivi <<< derivita de vorti sen dezinenco...adjektivi quala nuna, nura, <<< antea,...mea, tua...; igis men pensar pri eliziono la frazo "mea <<< Europa": se onu elizionus, "me Europa" povus esar misinterpretata, <<< pro la diversa signifiko di "me"... me questionas ka povas eventar <<< ambiguajo [Eduardo A. RODI] ��� PERSONALA OPINIONO Sen-dubite kreesus ambiguajo: forsan ne tante semantikala (1), quante gramatikala. Elizionante la -a en 'nuna', 'antea', 'mea', 'tua'...on transformus adjektivo rispektive ad adverbo/prepoziciono/pronomo 'nun', 'ante', 'me', 'tu'... Efekte di to, koram deki de vorti on ne plus savus ne-mediate, exter kuntexto, ka traktesas gramatike pri adverbo/prepoziciono/pronomo o ...adjektivo sen -a. To esus procedo kontre ul sakra principo di Ido, nome la generala rikonocebleso dil kategorio gramatikala. Pluse, to esus anke procedo tote kontre logiko. Exemple, la gramatiko preskriptas, ke - avan adjektivo uzesez 'plu' (plu bela); - avan substantivo uzesez 'plua' (plua pekunio), vice. Nu, se la sama gramatiko altra-loke permisas rivenar, per eliziono, de "plua pekunio" a interdiktita "plu pekunio", to koquas ne-manjebla popurito. Me es absolute konvinkita ke eliziono di -a esas ne permisata en la kazi en-diskuta. Eliziono dil finalo -a vizas, per eufonio, plu-beleso dil linguo. Esas ne-konceptebla ke ta sama eliziono darfas genitar gramatikala kaoso e logikala katastrofo. ��� GRAMATIKI NACIONALA Nuova GRAMMATICA... da P. Lusana (Italiane): "...la finale -a dell'aggettivo pu� elidersi...quando l'elisione non produca equivoco..." [...finalo -a dil adjektivo darfas elizionesar...kande l'eliziono ne produktas ambiguajo...]. GRAMMAIRE compl�te...da L. de Beaufront (France): "...cette �lision...on ne doit l'employer trop frequemment, e surtout pas quand elle donnerait lieu � �quivoque..." [...ca eliziono...on devas uzar ol ne tro freque, e precipue ne kande ol genitus ambiguajo...]. Vollst�ndiges LEHRBUCH... da L. Mainzer (Germane): "...die Endung -a kann ausfallen...beim Eigenschaftswort...vorausgesetz, dass dadurch keine Unklarheit...entstehen..." [finalo -a darfas elizionesar...en l'adjektivi...kondicione ke per to nula ne-klareso eventas...]. Segun me, la sempra "caveat" (averto pri ambiguajo) koncernas ne nur l'ambiguaji semantikala (2), ma anke e forsan precipue le gramatikala. ��� KGD La KGD raportas textope: "...nur la NOMALA radiko darfas recevar l'eliziono, en sua formo adjektivala...". To segun me exkluzas l'eliziono en adjektivi derivita de sen-dezinenca adverbi originala, prepozicioni primitiva, pronomi personala (3). ��� PROGRESO En Progreso II, 1910, en noto pri artiklo da P. Janko, la redaktero facis la sequanta remarko: "L'eliziono di la finalo -a esas kompreneble interdiktata en la posedala adjektivi, mea, tua... nam altre li divenus la personala pronomi: me, tu..." Altra-dice, l'eliziono ne darfas produktar diferanta vorto-speco. Me kredas ke on devas extrapolar* (4) ca redakterala remarko a omna adjektivi derivita de sen-dezinenca vorti. ----------- (1) Ambigueso semantikala es posibla: elizionante en "antea Sundio" on obtenas "ante Sundio", kun tote altra senco... (2) Elizionante en "mala aludo" on povas komprenar aude "mala ludo". (3) Pri ula adverbi finanta per -e on povas forsan diskutar: bald-e, hik-e, ib-e, sempr-e, quaz-e, hier-e, morg-e. (4) Extrapolar*: extensar la signifiko. A extrapolate F extrapoler G extrapolieren H extrapolar I estrapolare, extrapolare R ekstrapolirovat Incidente, me tendencas opinionar, ke radiki absolute internaciona es quaza radiki Idala, "de facto" se ne "de iure" [expresuri Latina de la yuro-cienco: pro la fakto ipsa, se ne pro yuro]. Me ja indikis pluri ek li, che Linguolisto. ---------- Carlo Nardini From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1996 Return-Path: X-Sender: eduarodi@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 322 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2005 05:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Nov 2005 05:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2005 05:07:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Nov 2005 05:07:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Nov 2005 05:07:21 -0000 Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 05:07:19 -0000 To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000501c5dfb8$1aa49f60$87ff3652@nardinic> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eduardo A. Rodi" Subject: Re: Popurito X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206412014; y=eOESlf39dZfJQWsIo5VKOBfoGKYpcyqta_FVEcIrFiLW-zw X-Yahoo-Profile: eduarodi Kara Carlo, Me multe dankas vua expliko, e me aceptas la indiko ke vorti = sendezinenca adjuntanta -a nulatempe darfas elizionar la -a finala. Or, pe= rmisez a me montrar mikra deskovrajo, di to quo eventUs, se onu darfUs eli= zionar tala -a. Fakte me dekomence suspektis ke esas danjeroza tala elizio= no, e me do nule intencas propozar olu. Lo sequanta esas do, nur ludala hi= potezo. Me jus deskovris, lektante vua letro laute, ke al oreli, "ante" (k= om prepoziciono) ed "ante" (kom "antea" pos elizionar la -a) ya povus esa= r diferigata, ma nur parole (e lo sama eventas pri omna vorti dusilaba sen= dezinenca, a qui on adjuntas -a: olima, apuda, edc.). Se me bone memoras, = vorti quala "antea" sequas la reguli di acentizo por omna vorti (ecepte in= finitivi e vorti unsilaba) en Ido, nome, on acentizas la prelasta silabo: = /an-TE-a/. Anke segun mea memoraji, kande onu elizionas la -a finala en ad= jektivi, la acento restas en la sama silabo originala. Do: originala /o-ri= -gi-NA-la/, original /o- ri-gi-NAL/. Se mea memoraji esas justa, lore se o= nu darfus elizionar la -a finala di "antea", la rezultajo esus pronuncenda= /an-TE/, kontre ke la prepoziciono esas /AN-te/. E lore: la du signifiki = di "ante sundio" esus identifikebla per la acentizo dil vorto "ante". Ned= icinde, to ne suficas por permisar la eliziono, precipue en ta etapo, en q= ua Ido duras esar linguo precipue skribata (ne parolata), e pluse, pro ke = ta mekanismo ne funcionus che vorti unsilaba a qui on adjuntas -a: mea, tu= a, edc. Standez bone. Eduardo A. RODI > Rezume: > > <<< me questionas m= e ka konvenas aceptar eliziono...en adjektivi > <<< derivita de vorti sen d= ezinenco...adjektivi quala nuna, nura, > <<< antea,...mea, tua...; igis men= pensar pri eliziono la frazo "mea > <<< Europa": se onu elizionus, "me Eu= ropa" povus esar misinterpretata, <<< > pro la diversa signifiko di "me".= .. me questionas ka povas eventar > <<< ambiguajo [Eduardo A. RODI] > > >= > =A7=A7=A7 PERSONALA OPINIONO > > Sen-dubite kreesus ambiguajo: forsan = ne tante semantikala (1), quante > gramatikala. > > Elizionante la -a en = 'nuna', 'antea', 'mea', 'tua'...on transformus > adjektivo rispektive ad a= dverbo/prepoziciono/pronomo 'nun', 'ante', 'me', > 'tu'... > Efekte di to, = koram deki de vorti on ne plus savus ne-mediate, exter > kuntexto, ka trak= tesas gramatike pri adverbo/prepoziciono/pronomo o > ...adjektivo sen -a. >= > To esus procedo kontre ul sakra principo di Ido, nome la generala > rik= onocebleso dil kategorio gramatikala. > > Pluse, to esus anke procedo tote= kontre logiko. > Exemple, la gramatiko preskriptas, ke > - avan adjektivo = uzesez 'plu' (plu bela); > - avan substantivo uzesez 'plua' (plua pekunio),= vice. > Nu, se la sama gramatiko altra-loke permisas rivenar, per elizion= o, de "plua > pekunio" a interdiktita "plu pekunio", to koquas ne-manjebla = popurito. > > Me es absolute konvinkita ke eliziono di -a esas ne permisa= ta en la kazi > en-diskuta. > Eliziono dil finalo -a vizas, per eufonio, p= lu-beleso dil linguo. Esas > ne-konceptebla ke ta sama eliziono darfas gen= itar gramatikala kaoso e > logikala katastrofo. > > > > =A7=A7=A7 GRAMA= TIKI NACIONALA > > Nuova GRAMMATICA... da P. Lusana (Italiane): > "...la f= inale -a dell'aggettivo pu=F2 elidersi...quando l'elisione non produca > e= quivoco..." > [...finalo -a dil adjektivo darfas elizionesar...kande l'eliz= iono ne > produktas ambiguajo...]. > > GRAMMAIRE compl=E8te...da L. de Be= aufront (France): > "...cette =E9lision...on ne doit l'employer trop freque= mment, e surtout pas > quand elle donnerait lieu =E0 =E9quivoque..." > [..= .ca eliziono...on devas uzar ol ne tro freque, e precipue ne kande ol > ge= nitus ambiguajo...]. > > > Vollst=E4ndiges LEHRBUCH... da L. Mainzer (Ger= mane): > "...die Endung -a kann ausfallen...beim Eigenschaftswort...voraus= gesetz, > dass dadurch keine Unklarheit...entstehen..." > [finalo -a darfas= elizionesar...en l'adjektivi...kondicione ke per to nula > ne-klareso eve= ntas...]. > > Segun me, la sempra "caveat" (averto pri ambiguajo) koncerna= s ne nur > l'ambiguaji semantikala (2), ma anke e forsan precipue le gram= atikala. > > > > =A7=A7=A7 KGD > > La KGD raportas textope: "...nur la = NOMALA radiko darfas recevar l'eliziono, > en sua formo adjektivala...". >= > To segun me exkluzas l'eliziono en adjektivi derivita de sen- dezinenca= > adverbi originala, prepozicioni primitiva, pronomi personala (3). > > = > > =A7=A7=A7 PROGRESO > > En Progreso II, 1910, en noto pri artiklo da P= . Janko, la redaktero facis la > sequanta remarko: > "L'eliziono di la fin= alo -a esas kompreneble interdiktata en la posedala > adjektivi, mea, tua.= .. nam altre li divenus la personala pronomi: me, tu..." > > Altra-dice, = l'eliziono ne darfas produktar diferanta vorto-speco. > Me kredas ke on dev= as extrapolar* (4) ca redakterala remarko a omna > adjektivi derivita de se= n-dezinenca vorti. > > > ----------- > > (1) Ambigueso semantikala es po= sibla: elizionante en "antea Sundio" on > obtenas "ante Sundio", kun tote = altra senco... > > (2) Elizionante en "mala aludo" on povas komprenar aude= "mala ludo". > > (3) Pri ula adverbi finanta per -e on povas forsan disk= utar: bald- e, hik-e, > ib-e, sempr-e, quaz-e, hier-e, morg-e. > > (4) Ex= trapolar*: extensar la signifiko. > A extrapolate > F extrapoler > G extrap= olieren > H extrapolar > I estrapolare, extrapolare > R ekstrapolirovat > = > Incidente, me tendencas opinionar, ke radiki absolute internaciona es qu= aza > radiki Idala, "de facto" se ne "de iure" [expresuri Latina de la > yu= ro-cienco: pro la fakto ipsa, se ne pro yuro]. > Me ja indikis pluri ek li,= che Linguolisto. > > ---------- > > Carlo Nardini > From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1997 Return-Path: X-Sender: SPW@vo.lu X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82564 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2005 22:01:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2005 22:01:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hyperion.vo.lu) (80.90.45.19) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2005 22:01:16 -0000 Received: from thunderbird.spw (unverified [85.93.198.31]) by hyperion.vo.lu (Visual Online SMTP gateway) with ESMTP id 52247864 for ; Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:08:21 +0100 Return-Path: To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:01:02 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200511062301.02905.SPW@vo.lu> X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Steve Walesch Subject: Pri patati, ter-pomi, potati, batati, ter-ovi, kartofli e granda konfuzigo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=1037061; y=Ik_b_jllk26HKt6UooFA149blU4vSIeDVtmuSDEVwHWray9DpBUD X-Yahoo-Profile: stevewalesch Kara linguolistani, Me nun konfuzigas vi, same kam nia dicionarii konfuzig= is me kande me serchis vorto. Pesch (en ilua dicionario) ne definas terpo= mo, nam il konsideras ol kom kompozita vorto e lua dicionario traktas ya n= ur radiki. Tamen il uzas la vorto en la defino dil (ne-oficaligita) radiko= kartofl.o kartoflo. (bot.) Solaneo tuberoza, di qua la nura tuberkulo esa= s manjebla (kom legumo), *reproduktebla per la plantaco di tuberkuli - pri= zentita en Francia da Parmentier. (Nomo vulgara: terpomi, en Francia ; ter= -ovi, en Chinia) Il do kritikas la nomo ter-pomi, nam il pensas ke to esas= Francajo (pomme de terre), tamen on uzas tala vorto anke en altra lingui,= exemple "Aardappel" en Nederlandana o (kelkafoye) "Erdapfel" en Germana. = Meaopionione ni ne absolute bezonas ta radiko ne-oficala, mem se ol pluse = sustenesas dal Franca linguo (cartoufle). En Franca anke existas "patate"= . Ed en Angla on dicas "potato" ed en Italiana e Kastiliana "patata". Ka d= o ne maxim apta esus la vorto "patato" en Ido (vice terpomo)? Hike ni hav= as problemo, nam Pesch definas la radiko "patato" kom altra planto: patato.= (bot.) Planto di qua la radiko tuberkula esas manjebla. - L. ipornoea bat= atas. - DEFIRSL. Ta "ipornea batatas" signifikas en altra lingui: Franca: p= atate douce Angla: sweet potato Kastiliana: camote, batata o boniato German= a: S=FC=DFkartoffel, Batate Me prizegas la dicionario da Pesch, ma hike lu= a elekto semblas ne-apta. La dicionarii Ido - Germana (http://idolinguo.or= g.uk/idger.htm) ed Ido - Angla (http://ido.redmail.com/idan.htm) tradukas:= patat.o (pl.) Batate ; sweet potato potat.o (pl.) Kartoffel ; potato = Oli do mencionas nek kartofli nek terpomi. Lia solvo tamen ne semblas tre= bona, nam anke oli uzas la maxim internaciona radiko "patat.o" por refera= r al altra planto. Maxim apta esus probable "batato" e "patato". Ante se= ndar ca mesajo a linguolisto, me serchis se ulu forsan ja skribis pri ca t= emo hike. Lore me trovis mesajo 1570 da Partaka. Ma il plu kurte skribis p= ri la temo, do me pensas ke ca plu detaloza mesajo tamen povas esar utila, = mem se me konkordas kun il. Kordiale, Steve P.S.: Me anke joyus recevar = ula komenti pri mesajo #1967. Danko From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1998 Return-Path: X-Sender: izummm@mail.ru X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83157 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2005 10:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2005 10:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx6.mail.ru) (194.67.23.26) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2005 10:54:31 -0000 Received: from [213.27.43.12] (port=63364 helo=[213.27.43.12]) by mx6.mail.ru with esmtp id 1EZ4dw-000P11-00 for linguolisto@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:54:29 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:52:38 +0300 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.62) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1038987767.20051107135238@mail.ru> To: Steve Walesch In-Reply-To: <200511062301.02905.SPW@vo.lu> References: <200511062301.02905.SPW@vo.lu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: iZoommm Reply-To: iZoommm Subject: Re: [linguo] Pri patati, ter-pomi, potati, batati, ter-ovi, kartofli e granda konfuzigo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=183493896; y=QXtf3qfhPrpEAHnvH1TwqsEyD8YBzR9J73tyIH0TFQ03nA X-Yahoo-Profile: izoommm Kara Steve, 07.11.2005, 1:01:02, vu skribis: SW> Maxim apta esus probable "batato" e "patato". Konfundo: "bat-at-o" - ta quan onu batas. Kompreneble, onu povas batar mem terpomo, ma por quo? :) -- Maxim bon deziri, iZoommm From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 1999 Return-Path: X-Sender: qualevistandas@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95885 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2005 03:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Nov 2005 03:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.60) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Nov 2005 03:45:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 95924 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Nov 2005 03:45:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20051108034526.95922.qmail@web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [85.60.2.38] by web26610.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:45:26 CET Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 04:45:26 +0100 (CET) To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200511062301.02905.SPW@vo.lu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Partaka Subject: RE: [linguo] Pri patati, ter-pomi, potati, batati, ter-ovi, kartofli e granda konfuzigo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=151141225; y=cv3jQILrnmqAjRf1KKByIkzmehOD6nBPhps10C-bEyjCC4gEbqoEU1w X-Yahoo-Profile: qualevistandas Saluto, Steve! Pri tua suba mesajo, voluntez lektar, che l'arkivo di Linguolisto, sendajo #1.565 da Goncalo Neves. Segun me, "patato" e "dolca patato" preferindesus. E pri mesajo #1.967, yen to quon me konjektas: 1) Ni havas lando-vorto quala "Arjentinia", pro ke ni havas vorto quala "arjento". Kaze ke l'Ido-vorto esus "argento", lore ni havus "Argentinia". 2) Havayi es archipelago kontenanta plu kam 100 insuli, quankam nur kelki ek oli habitesas. Nur un ek ta insuli nomesas Hawaii (altra nomesas Kauai). Forsan, on rezolvis konservar "Havayi" en Ido, por bone dicernar inter l'insulo e l'insularo. Altra-latere, la vorti "Hawaii, Hawaiani" (Hauaii, Hauaiani) certe grupigas tro multa vokali. Anke me ne prizas formi quala "Havayi, Havayiani", nam oli es ne tante rikonocebla unesma-vide, ma... 3) Pri "internet.o" e cetera vorti teknikal, me darfas dicar preske nulo; tamen, mea-judike, existas nula grava problemo, nam tala formi ne ja oficaligesis: Ni ya havos la tempo debatar pri oli... Dume, me recente manjis "patati" e "dolca patati"... Ye via saneso! P A R T A K A * * * * * * * * --- Steve Walesch skribis: --------------------------------- Kara linguolistani, Me nun konfuzigas vi, same kam nia dicionarii konfuzigis me kande me serchis vorto. Pesch (en ilua dicionario) ne definas terpomo, nam il konsideras ol kom kompozita vorto e lua dicionario traktas ya nur radiki. Tamen il uzas la vorto en la defino dil (ne-oficaligita) radiko kartofl.o kartoflo. (bot.) Solaneo tuberoza, di qua la nura tuberkulo esas manjebla (kom legumo), *reproduktebla per la plantaco di tuberkuli - prizentita en Francia da Parmentier. (Nomo vulgara: terpomi, en Francia ; ter-ovi, en Chinia) Il do kritikas la nomo ter-pomi, nam il pensas ke to esas Francajo (pomme de terre), tamen on uzas tala vorto anke en altra lingui, exemple "Aardappel" en Nederlandana o (kelkafoye) "Erdapfel" en Germana. Meaopionione ni ne absolute bezonas ta radiko ne-oficala, mem se ol pluse sustenesas dal Franca linguo (cartoufle). En Franca anke existas "patate". Ed en Angla on dicas "potato" ed en Italiana e Kastiliana "patata". Ka do ne maxim apta esus la vorto "patato" en Ido (vice terpomo)? Hike ni havas problemo, nam Pesch definas la radiko "patato" kom altra planto: patato. (bot.) Planto di qua la radiko tuberkula esas manjebla. - L. ipornoea batatas. - DEFIRSL. Ta "ipornea batatas" signifikas en altra lingui: Franca: patate douce Angla: sweet potato Kastiliana: camote, batata o boniato Germana: S��kartoffel, Batate Me prizegas la dicionario da Pesch, ma hike lua elekto semblas ne-apta. La dicionarii Ido - Germana (http://idolinguo.org.uk/idger.htm) ed Ido - Angla (http://ido.redmail.com/idan.htm) tradukas: patat.o (pl.) Batate ; sweet potato potat.o (pl.) Kartoffel ; potato Oli do mencionas nek kartofli nek terpomi. Lia solvo tamen ne semblas tre bona, nam anke oli uzas la maxim internaciona radiko "patat.o" por referar al altra planto. Maxim apta esus probable "batato" e "patato". Ante sendar ca mesajo a linguolisto, me serchis se ulu forsan ja skribis pri ca temo hike. Lore me trovis mesajo 1570 da Partaka. Ma il plu kurte skribis pri la temo, do me pensas ke ca plu detaloza mesajo tamen povas esar utila, mem se me konkordas kun il. Kordiale, Steve P.S.: Me anke joyus recevar ula komenti pri mesajo #1967. Danko Maxim kordial bonveno aden IDO-CATALA-OCCITAN! http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/IdoCatalaOccitan/ ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, m�s seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From DummyAddressAndDate Thu Sep 16 11:42:17 2010 X-Yahoo-Msgnum: 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22389 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2005 12:03:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2005 12:03:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.61.28) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2005 12:03:06 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 Nov 2005 04:03:06 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.200 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:03:06 GMT X-Originating-Email: [idojc@hotmail.com] X-Sender: idojc@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com Cc: linguolisto@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:03:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2005 12:03:06.0686 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B7F65E0:01C5E525] X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "James Chandler" Subject: RE: [ido] Re: Ligilo kolorizita X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24528831; y=WMzs29GLtcF94qDH1I-yqRvgXGyh5F55-Ks95Jhlo5A X-Yahoo-Profile: idojc Kara Dave La radiko puer/o devenas de la Latina linguo. Ma komparez la angla vorto: 'puerile'. On ne povus selektar pur/o, nam ni bezonas pur/a kom adjektivo (angle: pure). Linguala saluti Kordiale, James Chandler idojc@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/idojc - IALs index http://www.geocities.com/idojc/yindex.html - Ido index http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto - Idolisto home http://io.wikipedia.org - Wikipedio en Ido "We should all stay in touch, we should make a big network on both sides of the Atlantic because your country and my country are the biggest problems in the world today, we are the biggest rogue states in the world today and the citizens have got to take back control of the plane." - George Galloway, MP Interviewed on the Alex Jones Show, 31st May 2005 >From: "dave5dave5dave" >Reply-To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >To: idolisto@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [ido] Re: Ligilo kolorizita >Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:06:10 -0000 > >Hodie me havis interviuvo en Koreana kompanio e dum la interviuvo li >questionis a me pri multa kozi en mea vivo - komprenende un de oli >esas nia movado, e fortunoze me havis Pinnochio kun me e me montris ol >a li. >Ulu questionis me: pro quo on dicas 'puero' e ne simple 'puro'? >Hm...me ne savas - simple savar la linguo ne savigas ulo pri omna >aspekti di linguo. Me respondis ke forsan un ek la AFGHIR lingui havas >vorto plu simile a puero, o forsan existas homonimo tro simile a 'puro'. >Irgamaniere, savez ke vua tre ecelanta verko uzesis hodie kom bona >exemplo di nia linguo. ^^ > >Dave MacLeod > >--- In idolisto@yahoogroups.com, Adri�n Pastrana > wrote: > > > > Ecelantega e nekredebla esas vua laboro favore Ido. Gratuli! e > > adavane! > > Adri�n Pastrana > > > > > > --- In idolisto@yahoogroups.com, "publikaji" wrote: > > > > > > EDITERIO KRAYONO / PUBLIKAJI > > > > > > > > > > > > Voluntez enirar la pagino Internet-ala di Editerio Krayono / > > Publikaji: > > > www.publikaji.tk > > > > > > Observez adsinistre nova ligilo kolorizita... juez olu ! > > > > > > Literaturala salutin sendas a vi, > > > > > > Editerio Krayono. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > Editerio Krayono esas editerio di la Ido-Societo Hispana, > > > > > > idosocietohispana@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Ido, sempre adavane! > > > > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ido, linguo neutra inter diferanta kulturi. Linguo di amikeso! > >http://www.ido.li >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >